Is Moses Malone The Best High School To Pro Ever?
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2013
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**NOTE: We are sure LeBron James will eventually surpass anything Moses has done on the court**
While Moses Malone became the first player to jump from high school the professional basketball, it wasn't as easy as simply entering the draft. Back then, the NBA had arcane rules that tried to prevent players from leaving college early, and it took the advent of the ABA to push the NBA to allow hardship cases.
Moses Malone's storied career outshines many other players that jumped straight from the high school ranks. Was it better than Kobe Bryant? Kevin Garnett?
Looking at his whole body of work, and in particular who he had to battle against, and this answer becomes more clear. 
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I think you need to go back and watch Moses first...
You need to make more of thses videos!! So much information! Its great coach.
Hell, yes! Great re-upload, coach!
Great job coach. A really interesting vid!
ICYMI:
Don't miss our breakdown of how Moses was able to jump to the pros from High School:
You had great centers. The. You had Moses. This was a postbplayer who played center. A nimble big man.
That, you didn't have in that era. You had a big man that did it all 6 feet in...then moses who did it all. Put you on the floor, on his back, and was tenacious and vicious. Plus that uggly jumper. Could not do anything with him.
I would say...lebron right now might pass him. But a big man will last 20 years in the league. A 2 or 3 guard won't.
I'd have to go with LBJ at this point, but Moses deserves to be recognized...
BBALLBREAKDOWN
LeBron has a long, long, long way to go before he reaches Moses Malone
Moses coming out of high school at age 19 led his team to the playoffs, even after his team lost 8 of their 9 top scorers from the year before he came. LeBron missed the playoffs his first 2 seasons.
Moses took a 40-42 Rockets team (not top 10 offense or defense) to the 1981 Finals past defending champ Magic/Kareem, Goerge Gervin Spurs, and pushed Larry Bird Celtics to 6 games in the Finals. He had nobody on that team besides Calvin Murphy, who was at the tail end of his career and no-longer the Hall of Fame quality player he was in his prime. He took Del Harris as a coach to the NBA Finals.
He has a 2-0 playoff record against Magic/Kareem (both years - 1981 and 1983 - the Lakers were defending champions) and outplayed Kareem in both playoff meetings. LeBron hasn't come close to beating or outplaying that level of competition. Not even close. To this day LeBron has NEVER beaten a team with a legit great big man unless they were at the end of their career (KG 2011-12, Duncan 2013)
This is what happens when Lebron plays big men that aren't at the end of their career
- 2006 vs 4x DPOY Ben Wallace - loss. 44% shooting, 4.4 turnovers a game
"coincidentally" Lebron beat the 07 Pistons after 4x DPOY Ben Wallace was traded before the season
-2007 vs Duncan - loss, 36% shooting, 5.8 turnovers a game
-2008 vs DPOY Garnett - 36% shooting, 5.2 turnovers a game
-2009 vs DPOY Dwight - loss, though you have to admit LeBron played like a beast with 39-8-8. He still had 4.2 turnovers a game though
-2011 vs Dirk - loss, outscored by bench player Jason Terry (who played 11 less mpg than Lebron, essentially spotting him a whole quarter and still outscoring him), 4 turnovers a game.
Lebron = 0-5 playoff record against teams with legit big men not at the end of their career, and has ALWAYS averaged 4+ turnovers a game when facing a team with a legit big man.
Chandler and Roy Hibbert are far from great, legit big men. Neither of them would even sniff DPOY in Moses' era of real basketball
2007 - Lebron has a top 5 Cavs defense that shut down Duncan to 45% in Finals after 55% in regular season
Lebron beat bum 41-41 Wiz with no Arenas/Butler - injuries
LeBron beat bum 41-41 Nets with post-injuries Vince Carter
LeBron beat washed up Pistons who lost their best defensive player
- 4x DPOY Ben Wallace, and who LeBron couldn't beat in 2006 when he was still on the team. Talk about weak competition
then he got exposed by the only real team he played, Spurs - 35% shooting, 6 turnovers a game, missed game-tying shot in Game 3.
Dr J had an 0-3 Finals record before Moses Malone saved him and got him the ring in 1983.
D Wade was a Finals MVP before Lebron joined him, and Lebron cost Wade another Finals MVP in 2011 and didnt take over in the 2014 key moments when he should have. Moses didn't cost his team like Lebron did.
Moses in the 1983 Finals averaged more rebounds (18.0) than Lebron did points (17.8) in the 2011 Finals. And Moses was matched up against top 5 all time Kareem. Who did Lebron match up against in 2011 that gave him so many problems in 2011? DeShawn Stevenson? Shawn Marion? Jason Terry? What a joke.
Moses won 3 MVPs in a league of Dr J, Gervin, Bernard King, Isiah, and 3 of the top 5 players of all time (Kareem, Bird, Magic). Since when has LeBron faced that much deep competition? Never.
Moses never got showed up by role players like Jason Terry and Kawhi Leonard (23.7 ppg on 69% Games 3-4-5 in 2014) in the Finals. Instead, he showed up top-5 all-time Kareem in both of their playoff meetings
sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5952952 "Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the '80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team. The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is [now]."
- LeBron James
LeBron even admits his era is watered down. No way around it. He has 4 MVPs because his only competition is the likes of a past prime Kobe, Durant, injured Rose, and nobody else. LeBron = product of a weak era and not even top 10 all time.
Lebron is not having anywhere near that success going in the stacked 80s era.
Great video.
Great video and analysis coach nick! You are the best!
Man, this is just like your old school stuff. Gives me some nostalgia
Re-releasing videos now, are we, coach?
No doubt..
Definitely on our list!
At the very least it's debatable. If LBJ dropped dead right now, what would his resume look like?
2 Championships
2 Finals MVP's
4 MVP's
One of the best defenders of all time
One of the most versatile defenders of all time
And the only guy to average 26-6-6 for 9 straight seasons
Moses Malone is the best high school to pro player in my opinion, I'm glad coach nick agrees with me on this
Have you uploaded this video before? I could have sworn I've seen this
Coach Nick, Moses Malone went up against really good centers. What about the perimeter players nowadays and even in the early 2000s that Kobe and LeBron now have to play against? AI, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, T-Mac, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Manu Ginoblic, etc? Now to the Paul George, James Harden, etc. Also, I feel that you made a personal jab at Kobe when comparing him and Moses Malone when you could've used KG when they play similar positions.
Is this a re-upload? I swear I've seen this before...
Was this video out ages ago? Seems really familiar.
is this a reupload?
hey coach Nick I watched the 2012 Olympics men's quarterfinals of Australia vs. USA again the other day. I was impressed by the Aussies of how well they were doing. although they lost the game (119:86), it did not actually start to break down until the 4th quarter unlike most of the other teams the USA played against. any chance of doing a break down for that game?
It certainly is a great debate!
Coach Nick, If you were building a team who would you take first(all in their prime):
-Moses Malone
-Charles Barkley
-Tim Duncan
LOL
I'll take hand checking over facing zone every day of the week as a shooting guard.
Hey coach, do you think maybe you could do a highlight on LeBron's defence? being from the UK I'm pretty much restricted to only watching highlights so I've not been able to see much of why he got voted second in DPOY. There's also talks that he could go on to win it this year and I was wondering if you agree?
Wasn't this on your other channel?
Hey, fine with me to have that opinion. I respect tons of current players, though. I think too many people dismiss the players from the past.
Coach why don't you look into both their high school stats and their NBA statistics & their legacy. What do you think about that?
Clearly, you didn't see Moses play..
LOL - I'm praise him more than any other player!
IMO, Moses is the best high school to pro ever, his dominating performance in the 80's and his durability prove that, plus, his domination doesn't relate to any special (STAR) treatment from the NBA like nowadays
Coach going in on Bill Simmons lol.
KOBE BEAN BRYANT! Nuff' said.
This is why the NBA banning highschool players is the worst decision they ever made. No human being should be forced to go play for an organization for free for a year, risking injury and making tons of money for an organization that doesn't pay taxes, and in fact received money from tax players, as well as taking advantage of student loans being federally insured by constantly raising tuition. It's ridiculous and should be criminal . It might be a different story if the NCAA shared revenue with players, or at least allowed them to make money.
That's nice, but I was responding to the myth that the only reason the Celtics became a great defensive team was because of KG.
If that were true, then his teams in MIN would've been perennial defensive powerhouses because of his presence alone(which they weren't).
yeah he averaged 35 a game without Shaq against zone, THAT is point I was making..
Now unless you think that he was gonna make the finals with Smush Parker as his starting point guard and Kwame Brown as his center 35 per game was needed.
NO ONE has ever done it by themselves. That period where Kobe HAD to score 35 a game against zone to keep the Lakers in games shows you the point I was making.
And they were 45-37 when he did that, not a losing record. He also averaged 4.5 assists that season.
***NOTE: We are sure LeBron James will eventually surpass anything Moses has done on the court***
I realize it has a recent publication date, but how long ago was this video made? LeBron has *already* surpassed anything Moses has done on the court.
and know who was facilitating it to Shaq? :) Kobe is who made the triangle work for Shaq because he was the main facilitator, that's why he sacrificed shots for the good of the team etc. They essentially needed each other. But from the 2nd year onward it was Kobe's team when Shaq decided he didn't need to work out in the off-season after his first championship and Kobe never rested.
Moses went through some names.
So did Kobe.
Iverson, Carter, McGrady(healthy), Miller, Kidd, Francis, Duncan etc
Not to mention doing all this as a wing player in an era where zone defense was allowed, the kind of defense neither Malone nor Jordan had to deal with.
That should count for something. As well as 5 championships to 1.
I also don't know why we're comparing a center to a guard X_X but to each their own. Close though.
Coach Nick should do a video comparing Larry Bird to Kevin Durant or Lebron.
The crazy part is, whoever is the best player out of HS until now, is probably gonna be the best EVER out of HS.
Coach, do you think that the fact Kobe lived in Italy and mostly practiced basketball *by himself* over the years could explain his "ballhog" behavior?
Because here in europe, basketball courts are almost always empty - opposed to soccer courts being almost always full. So I've always praticed alone and the first game I played 5v5 in shcool classes it got me really confused with so many people on court...
Did Moses win any national championships? I'm too lazy to google.
he probably wasnt even a glint in the milkmans eyes yet
Isn't this the video Why Moses Malone's Career is Better Than Kobe's in the old Coach Nick channel?
LOL at the people who are so nostalgic they'll say hand checking was worse than zone defense. They won't ever admit that anything is tougher now a days, so no point in arguing with "BoricuaCJA"
It was Kobe's team from the 2nd championship onward. Shaq didn't want to let that go.
But sure let's act like Shaq was the guy carrying Kobe while Kobe was averaging 31/7/6 in the playoffs on near 50% shooting, see how long that argument lasts ;)
I like the way you think.
That's a bit brual on Kobe to my taste, but you'll do well in my class ;)
Coach Nick do you hate kobe or what?
is that the answer to my question?
I never said Kobe was a bad defender, he's one of the best defenders in NBA history. I just think Lebron is better.
Moreover, I.Q. is not a function of "footwork, good shot mechanics," or good post play. Basketball I.Q. is about whether you make the right basketball play at the right time on a consistent basis. Thus, I.Q. necessarily involves team play--basketball is a team sport after all. Kobe is too egotistical which means his team play suffers. Even Phil Jackson said this.
Arguing with someone. Apparently RUclips doesn't link comments to one another anymore.
Coach made this video years ago, but since then, I think Lebron has passed Moses on an all-time scale. I still have Mo' ahead of Kobe and KG, though.
I think that it's going to be hard to ever convince Coach of that, due to the fact that at Lebrons position there aren't as many good players right now. Back then Moses had to go up against some of the all time greatest big men. The argument is very circumstantial so its hard to argue against it.
I'm not a Kobe fan, even if he did tweet me earlier this year.. lol
Yes, Not ONLY THAT Moses MALONE Was One Of the Best Player Ever, THE Best Center In the league From 78 til 86's, at One Point the Most Dominant Player in SPORTS During that Period of time. When that Ball comes off the Boards He's going to GET it, he's NOT standing around waiting for it to come to him, He would Out HUSSLE Any CENTER TODAY! Tip It off the Glass, back to himself to get a better position/possession To Score, Killing opponents with Off. Rebounds, he was the MASTER At It UNSTOPPABLE!
Got kind of confused lol
You're contradicting yourself: If someone knows how to use everyone on his team, then that makes him a good team player, no? LBJ knows how to get the ball to the right person, on the right side of the court, at the right time. Me and you are saying the exact same thing, lol.
Uh, Pierce always being a solid defender is a lie. He wasnt committed to playing defense until KG came along anyways.
I did not say that Shaq carried Kobe. The discussion is about zone defenses. No defense can have true impact if the adversary have major weapons in the outside and the inside. How can you defend both at the same time? Kobe had this advantage in virtually his entire career.
The only time he was affected by the zones it was in 08 against the Celtics. Gasol outplayed by KG, no more big man leverage and Kobe was exposed to the bone by Thibodeau.
No they're not
And who would you be talking about
kobe has more defensive awards which gets me mad when people disregard that and Im not biased trust me but just because lebron is a better "team player" doesn't mean he has a better IQ. Kobe has better footwork,Good shot mechanics and one of the best post players for PG,SG,and SF.
Who cares about zone defenses when you have the best big man in the game playing for you?
This is laughable. Paul Pierce has always been a solid defender. And if KG is such a "culture changer", then why were only ONE of his teams in Minnesota a top-10 defense?
Riddle me that.
Try play the league's best defense while carrying your teams whole offense, he simply distributed his energy on both sides of the court. Hence why when given a reduced role on offense he lead the league in both Defensive and Overall RAPM. There is a reason why Boston went from the treadmill to an NBA championship and that's KG.
You know that total points , ppg , total rebounds ,rpg are not stats that compare players anymore .Moses played in a league with such a different pace and quality so his numbers wouldn't be the same in today's league. He has to be in 14-16 range all time while KG is 12-14 and kobe 9-11 .You have to consider so many things while you're trying to rank players because in the way you're talking wilt chamberlain is undisputed the greatest of all time with russell close 2nd .
I dont support Miami but LeBron has to be the best straight from HS. He is a unique talent with plenty of seasons still to play just look at his influence on a game. He hasnt missed a beat since joining the league, its ridiculous.
And Shaq had the advantage of being the initiator and facilitator of the triangle offense and basically made every find happen through Shaq :)
So you can't say how much easier Shaq made it for Kobe, Kobe made it just as easier for Shaq and everyone else as he was the facilitator and initiator of the triangle in every facet, creating for Shaq as well as himself.
And Kobe averaged 35 ppg against zone with no Shaq. So try again.
Center...
Little bit of grantland/bill simmons hating go on there at 3:35
Rivalry?
No Shaq was the most dominant player through those title years. I wouldn't say Shaq was carrying Kobe, that is a misnomer, but the offense ran through Shaq those years. Shaq especially murdered teams in the finals.
OMG
Its a lot of young people posting here. Who never seen Moses Malone play, Nor even that era. If you took Kobe or Lebron and put them back in the 70s and 80s. Their names would just be average. Today's basketball is more of a ballad. 70s and 80s was physical street ball. Today the NBA is weak compared to back then.
And anyone who dares to talk about KG and doesn't know shit about basketball just compare the celtics of 06/07 with 07/08.He is a culture changer ,one of the greatest defenders of all time and a true leader.Before him in boston players like paul and ray didn't even know what defense means and look at their numbers after KG being there.Compare 10 year of Peak KG vs anyone and then we could have a debate.
cuz KG was the only household name from Minnesota besides Sprewell and maybe Szczerbiack...the only all-star only person consistently putting in work..minnestota had more offense then defense
At basketball you ain't got nothin on me, Kwame out peace.
LBJ is probably a top 10 player all time. He is all time leader in my advance statistic categories, and even in box score stats as well.
BBALLBREAKDOWN, so you're saying Moses Malone>LeBron?
That makes sense.
Why wasn't LeBron even mentioned?
Best at what?
Yeah, KG is literally the ONLY reason. Adding prime Ray Allen and a handful of awesome role-players had absolutely nothing to do with it. And yes, I'm being sarcastic.
Where are all the LeBoners that compare LeBron to Jordan?
really? How are you so sure lebron won't get a career ending injury anytime in the near future?
kobe and lebron are very arguable.
kg is a lot harder to argue, but im open to insight
You must be young then because moses is considered the best power foward of all time not only that hes also the 2nd scorer all time
Moses is, maybe, the most underated player in NBA history.
There are 4 "god" Centers: Kareem, Wilt, Russell and Hakeem. You can consider any of them as the best of all without sounding stupid. And you have Moses and Shaq at the same level right on the 5th spot. These guys are absolute, have no equals except themselves... But you can easilly find Moses waaaay behind in a bunch of lists and discussions circles. Some even consider Ewing a better player than Moses!
Why Moses Malone Was The Best High School To Pro Ever:
bit.ly/18SO8jY
#YOUIN
The best PF of all time? I think you're forgetting about the other Malone along with KG, and most of all TD.
Aw shit Coach Nick name dropping Bill Simmons
yes.
Kobe Bryant is the best player to come from High School he started the wave even tho KG and Moses came before him Lebron T-Mac Tyson Chandler etc looked to Kobe when they made the jump plus 5 rings 1 MVP 2 scoring titles Top 5 scorer ever C'mon son
lol, most all defensive 1st teams of all time? check. among the best passing and assisting shooting guards of all time? check. Top 20 PER? Check.
So what were you saying again?
Bullshit. Go watch some tapes of him in the early 2000's. He was playing solid defense. He may have gotten a little lazy when his teams stunk in the mid-2000's, but he wasn't getting bogus All-D selections for being lazy, like Kobe.
Zone is harder to score than one on one defenses. MJ had a lot of space to beat people off the dribble because of illegal defense. Why do you think Post ups aren't as often? Or teams that rely on them (e.g. Indiana or Memphis), are terrible offensive teams.
Russell... lol you're joking right?
If you say Kobe Bryant has a higher basketball I.Q. than LBJ, then you're biased. LBJ's I.Q. is higher because he's a better team player. He knows how to get the ball to the right person, on the right side of the court, at the right time. And and the same is true for his defense, which is why he's the most feared help defender in the league. Kobe was, at best, an average help defender, he's certainly not a more versatile defender than James, and James is probably a better on ball defender too.
Im guessing your kind of joking right because kobe is one of the best on ball defenders and averaged 6 assists last year. ANYONE who says hes a ballhog is a TRUE kobe hater i dont even like the lakers yeat I respect them and kobe
im no lebron fan but alot of brons numbers will pass moses malone and who had bigger impact right out the gate? i know kobe and kg werent much yet but bron seemed to put up numbers right away and get to the finals though the east was weak. of course bron is not the defender or rebounder that moses was
he also should have a defensive player of the year award ( robbed this year)
yes they are , you're wrong on this one ,and it's nothing bad to be wrong .
strong case
why did you compare to kobe at the end? why not lebron...he's got better stats than kobe.