I use Blue Jeans. The exact one in the comparison graphs. Got my first pair for my turntable, and it sounded fine and looked OK. Then, decided to get the ones in your comparison for my Elac UF5. Same story. Sounds good, looks like a wire. Knowing I can get a quality cable for 1/10 the price that's soldered by hand in America will keep me a customer for life.
You were the one who turned me onto Kimber Kable. I now use their 12TC speaker cable and their Carbon balanced interconnects. I love ‘em and their customer service is wonderful.
I have been using Kimber Kable 12TC on my system for about 2 years now. We can debate the sonic benefit of the 8TC and 12TC cables, but I think we can agree they are undeniably beautiful to behold!
Gene, it is so wonderfully heartwarming to see how much better you’re doing and back to doing what you love. I’ve personally been using Canare 4S11 from Blue Jeans for years now. Thanks, Gene!
Kimber are the best. No doubt. can make out the difference easily between 4TC, 8TC and 12TC... not fake. these cables really make a difference.. i am kimber fan for life!
Okay, i gotta chime in. I've been an audio enthusiast for 15+ years. I've never had a crazy budget to buy expensive stuff. I'm trying to learn as much as i can and be objective. I listen to both sides and never let my bias get in the way of my learning. That being said, here's what i have gathered: On one side, we have the party that shouts "snake oil" any chance they get. "It's all about the measurements" "you can't hear the difference" "the noise is outside the audible range, therefore it doesn't affect the audible range" On the other side, we have gentlemen at psaudio and gr-research that swear by their claims that these things do matter, and that can repeatedly can demonstrate the differences and get ordinary folks to hear the differences and have given out advice that has had a dramatic effect on my personal system for the better. Take what you will, but I tend to gravitate towards the latter group.
I made my own "kimber" cable. Just bought cheap normal copper cables in black and blue and braided it myself. I have banana plugs on them, but not the fancy expanding ones.
I just made some cables for my dad with Canare 4S11 and DH Labs banana plugs using two conductors together to get 11 awg. Got his Definitive BP3000 towers bi-amped now. Your opinion of the 4S11 drove me to use that cable and they turned out great. They look great too! Thanks for everything you do Gene!
Kimber 8AG silver speaker and Kimber silver KCAG interconnects with Kimber illuminati cable from transport to DA converter. Have been using this cable for 26-years now.
thanks a bunch Gene! those are some damn good looking cables, but lawd, 1000 bucks!? i'll grab my appropriately gauged cables from amazon. seem to work great! good to see you looking healthy and well!
I live pretty close to where Kimber cable is manufactured. I got my first set of cables from Ray Kimber himself. This was back in the mid 90's. I got to see how they made the cables, and the machines that braided the wires together. I gotta say that this stuff was quite innovative back then. I was lucky enough to get a set of cables from Ray Kimber himself. Never had to pay a dime for them. Back then , what I got was about $400 worth. It was explained to me, what kind of improvement in sound quality to expect. Ray wasn't wrong. I was amazed how much better my system sounded. I still have those original cables. I'd recommend Kimber Cable. They have been around for quite a long time now. They're located in Ogden Utah. Just a short distance from me. Still an amazing product.
I've got Monster Z3 cable for my left, right, and center channel. It looks beefy and cool, impressive to look at for sure. I paid 50 bucks for those cables, I was one of the last folks to stick with my store that was going out of business while most everyone else walked (Ultimate Electronics), and the guy in charge of the closing did me a solid.
Interesting- I’ve always thought high end cable claims were mostly bunk- I do own some Audioquest RCA connection cables but mostly I buy cables from Bluejeans in Seattle. I would never spend $1000 for a cable because the marginal gain I might get takes money away that would go otoward an upgraded component.
Enjoyed the review. About twenty years ago or so, I "built" my own bi-wire cables using 8PR and 4VS Kimber Kables. My hearing is not the best and my equipment is fairly bottom audiophile stuff (Adcom GFA 45 II and Legacy 2 speakers circa 1990). Got the wires from a shop going out of business for cheap. So the engineer in me went into overdrive to build something to replace my 12 ga zip cord (Apature, I think - but definitely step up from Monster). So this review has validated that I probably have a pretty good set cable set and should have no reason to move away from Kimber.
I've been using Kimber, both the 8TC and 4TC in the black & blue strands, for well over 20 years. I've never felt the need to go further up the product line in terms of quality. To your point, I have upgraded/updated the connectors over the years. The WBTs look nice, but my rig doesn't get changed out much, so as long as they have a solid connection now I'm hoping it will stay that way. I did buy them for the subjective performance that as published. They were definitely an expensive option then, but not close to the price now.
I've been using a pair for 4TC for decades. (when they were and not a "series"). I've always wondered if 8TC's would get me more bass, or sound any better. I have a simple setup: Rotel A12 integrated amp and i'm currently using Vienna Acoustic Haydn Grands. Your thoughts?
first and foremost, its really good to see and hear you back to you old self. that virus really kicked you ass. so, congrats on being healthy again and a big shout out to your wife for caring for you and picking up the slack. back to audio stuff: good review of the looks, specs and views of the 8TC & 8PR but i'm left with the big question everybody's asking in their minds: "Yeah, but do they SOUND and different?" for that kind of money, we should at least have an educated opinion, without qualification... thank you for ALL you do, scott
I bought 8prs way back and while I can't claim they sound better than the zip cord I was using, they definitely look and feel better, giving the system a but if a grown up look. There's definitely a pride of ownership factor.
Gene, I have been using those connectors for two years now from parts express. They are less than 15 bucks a pair. For Kimber to charge 500.00 dollars for two of them is crazy? The cable itself looks cool but way too much money at 700.00 dollars.
As I just brought a cable from them, I noticed it was paid to RKB Industrial. RKB Industrial owns Kimber and wbt connectors. Maybe their relationship had changed now and they are charging more money for those connectors. I seem to remember them being slot cheaper years ago as well.
I’m my experience kimber has always been the most realistic and down to earth high end cable company. Their 8tc does sound significantly better than any under $500 speaker cables I’ve tried.
I use custom RCA's that I made myself. Made with high quality cable with really high quality RCA's with silver solder. Yes, my wife could hear the difference as I replaced each of the cheap RCA's with my custom made ones. As to speaker cable I use 14 guage flat cable that works just fine.
Why fancy cables Gene...? Haven't we all had this discussion time and time again...? Doesn't the statement " It's all bullshit my friends " ring any bells...?
Bc you're not going to plug $100 cables into a 10k+ speaker. I can't imagine how much money Gene has cost best buy and audioquest through the years. But you right.. You know content is getting low with covid when Gene is making a cable video. Edit: typo
If you go to the old Audioholics article where they measured all the speakers. You’ll understand these cables are in alignment with the “it’s all bullshit my friends” statements, with some bling for funzies.
Glad you're back Gene. I've investigated and played with cables. My reference speaker cables are Audio Quest Mont Blanc (with factory upgraded ends). It's good to have a reference set - same with speakers. Without references, I've noticed tendency to become comfortable with nearly anything. I'll go down a path awhile, then bring a reference back to validate progress. Being a DIY type building speakers, certainly cables are easier. Lately, I use Belden 4x14awg for speakers (doubled-up), and Belden 1694a (6u coax) with matching Belden compression RCA ends for interconnect builds. I've never heard a difference between my DIY cables and reference. Which brings us to the request... could you do a video on how to measure critical cable attributes, and make public how each cable performs relative to others - like those graphs you showed in this video. Also, a deeper explanation of how each attribute affects sound. Also interested in why the cables perform better/worse (example: as gauge decreases, resistance increases, as length increases resistance increases, etc.). You could answer questions like: Solid core does?, mixture of gauges does?, purer copper does?, silver tinning does?, what protects against RFI and EMI, why twist, why weave, etc... I would like to know the facts from an educated EE.
Great choice. Wise decision. Am personally using 12TC kimber Kables for my system. Still working on getting kimber balanced XLRs. Braided wire makes a lot of difference.
I use 12/2 speaker wire and I install my own Sewell Direct connectors, I sheath it with braided nylon for glam and I install wire trousers with a finishing of 3:1 color coded heat shrink. Makes a beautiful and reliable and pleasant and functional cord.
Okay Gene, you are right audio jewelry and for that alone it's a must buy. I think the P8 is a better buy. When it comes to jewelry the skies the limit. I went to the Munich Hi End two years ago and visited a Spanish vendor who manufactured cable adapters made of pure silver and shaped into dragon or alligator heads. They had gemstones for eyes and cost a cool 12,000 Euros a pair. I am sure they worked well, looked even cooler. Eye candy for the ultimate rig!
Just bought a pair of 2M bi-wire unterminated Kimber 12VS cables. Completely aware that it's audio jewelry, but I do like woven design with the black and gray color scheme. No regrets.
when i finally upgraded from zip cable, i went with Blue Jeans, because their philosophy toward this stuff is the same as mine, but their knowledge is much much greater
I use Audio Envy cables. To Captain Payne, the owner of the company, capacitance is his primary bug-a-boo. I have electrostats. The most important spec for the panels is capacitance, so these work incredibly well here. They also make a somewhat smaller difference in interconnects. They are hand built, and make an audible difference to even casual listeners. They are also affordable.
I use mediabridge 12 gauge ultra series speaker cable, probably considered low end compared to multi thousand dollar systems but it works for my pioneer avr and Polk monitor 70s lol
Gene... I have a 35ft speaker cable run. Should I go with a pair of BJC 10 gauge or try and run balanced from my preamp for the 35ft instead and put the amps closer to the speakers (if even possible). Speakers are Magnepan .7’s.
A little more than a decade ago, I had a pretty good relationship with a stereo shop selling mid range stuff and some higher end things. Not that I bought much, but staying pleasant and generally being nice was me and my friends' ticket... We were allowed to mess around within reason, and test everything in any combination, bring our gear to have a private shootout.... Basically anything we think is prudent. And then I tripped on one of their self-built speaker cable with that WBT screw-tighten banana plugs. Thankfully the connector's banana pin broke instead of the speaker tipping over. As I want to remain on good terms with the shop, I immediately went to the owner of the shop and ask them how much I own them for the damage. They were gracious enough to charge me for the part only and we were good after that. Pro-tip... don't trip on your speaker cable...
KImber Kables are very well engineered and very good sounding wire. I have used it for years and have lots of experience with 4VS and 4TC, both single and bi-wired with very high end speakers and it sounds great - it also good looking wire, not to mention it is a very quiet cable because of their proprietary weave geometry. Can't go wrong with it. I am now interested in hearing the 8VS vs 8TC.
@anonanon 10 It certainly can be dependent on the associated gear, such as comparing the wire with a $500 pr of speakers against a $10,000 pr. One thing is for sure, the geometry of Kimber Kable does a great job of rejecting noise, allowing more details to be heard IMO.
Nice to see! I use Kimber throughout my rig, mostly because they seem to offer good design, materials and build quality at price points beyond which I’d get skeptical that these criteria are making giant improvements - in other words, my guess was that Kimber got it about right on the “point of diminishing returns”, and that would be better to spend next dollar on some room treatment, another album, or whatever. Glad to see that some of this can actually be measured objectively.
I've had Kimber 8TC/4TC bi-wire cables for years. I switch between these and MIT Terminator 2 bi-wire cables I was talked into. Speakers are Spica TC-60s, Amp is a Sonographe SA-250, Pre is AVA Ultra EC with a heavily modified Thorens TD-318 w/RDC platter and an Anthem CD-1 CD player. (Various other sources). Sometimes I like the Kimber better and other times the MIT seems a better match. The Kimber is "Brighter". Buying nothing new for now. Tried this with Dahlquist DQ-8s as well. Like the Spicas better.
Gene would you say the cables are danceable? I find certain cables give me a feeling of wanting to get up and dance to the beat! Would you say these Kimbers provide that?
Really, really happy you made this video on the Kimbers. Having long known of your well stated "opinion" relevant to cable company "claims" - I have stuck with Blue Jeans cables. And, I love them and recommend them. Now, having said this, I am seriously considering the prospect of up-grading my system right from source to speakers and... I'd like to consider speaker cables ... IF IT MAKES SENSE! (as in common with no pseudo science) I just checked out the price for a pair of Kimber 8TC @ 3M each and I am quite happy with the price. So I am clear now - this is what I am going to do and thanks to you and this video I will not be second guessing myself and wondering if I made a good choice. I'll wait until you approve the more advanced alien technologies that spill forth from the most immediate parallel universe but for now the Kimbers will suffice.
Welcome back! I have Kimber 12TC with the WBT bananas and 12VS with the standard banana plugs. Thanks for being forthright. Yes, the Kimber's are audio jewelry. 99% of audiophile cables are jewelry. And, yes the WBT connectors are awesome in engineering and price. At least the Kimbers perform! I can attest that the folks at Kimber Kable are nice folks. One day after finishing work while in the field in Ogden, UT, I stopped by their factory. They showed me how they make their cables, the raw materials they use, etc. That was a cool experience. Gene, can you try to get some Kimber Carbon cables and measure those?
I can ask. I'm really impressed with the company. They are in close proximity to RBH Sound so if you get a chance, go demo RBH speakers next time you visit Kimber.
Please please please Gene, don't sell out on us! ;) Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, personally I don't see anything that attractive in the Kimbers, maybe shinier than the BlueJeans but definitely not $1000 worth of pretty. MHO is that you'd be MUCH better off spending $100 on some good 10 or 12 gauge zip cord and putting the left over $900 into better speakers. I remember years back being sucked into buying Kimber PBJ interconnects because of rave reviews in the magazines only to have their unshielded design pick up hum like crazy in my system. The only good news was I threw them in a drawer for 15 years or so and then sold them at a profit in ebay. I really do like the locking banana plugs Kimber uses but they are around $130 a set of 4 on ebay. So for my 5.2.4 multich rig I'd need 9 sets $1170 ouch. I see some other locking plugs for $30-45 a set of 4, might look into them at some point. I currently use some 10g OFC zip type cord sold on ebay from a car audio company called Sky High. They sell a full line of cable sizes etc and I've had mine in the system for around 4 years now, nice stuff. Terminated at both ends with some nice gold bananas that use dual set screws to lock in the wire and are a good tight fit in my speakers & gear. If you want to build your own kick butt cables I'm now seeing Sky High has expanded their cable line to all sort of sizes/etc. I see some great 8g OFC zip sold for $1.99 by the foot. Add your fav terminations and you'll have some great cables that can't be beat. www.ebay.com/itm/OFC-TRUE-8-Gauge-AWG-BY-THE-FOOT-RD-BK-Oxygen-Free-Speaker-Wire-Car-Home-Audio/292931278549?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225086%26meid%3Da2059bb245634ee5945c4a5ad7f093fc%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D272368323740%26itm%3D292931278549%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DSky+High+Car+Audio&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
I've had the varystrand 8tc's for a four years +, I was going to top them about a fifteen months ago, after buying atlas marvos for interconnect. Just couldn't get the sound satisfying and was ready to seriously blow cash further. I didn't! I re-tuned my thinking and allowed my ears to become more critical and the adjusted the room acoustics with absorption and diffusion. Nothing crazy just enough to keep things alive and a better balanced sound through the audio spectrum. Further speaker placement fiddling also. Well just as well I did, saved a wad of cash and got a dynamic bang, with more than enough bass, for which I thought the 8tc lacked. The best decision was to compromise the near field listening guide as gospel. The other gain was not being suckered to the barrage of audio hype, I got through the smokey mirror bias. I'm not saying audio wholistic nivana, a better room setup will bring this closer, but I do have audio satisfaction. Cheers Gene for your talks.
I like your reviews. You talk about things my late uncle told me about back in the 90s when I was a teen just getting into it. He was real big on the fact that he never heard a difference from one cable to another and that when he did spend money on them it was for cosmetic purposes. I am using monoprice 12 awg
First off Gene I love your shows... I'm up here in Canada and have always been a semi- audiophile...my work always kept me away from the house. Gene is there a way to ask you some questions instead of the open forum?
Yes they look great...yes they do sound great...Kimber kable quality is awesome...yes there pricey...and at the end of the day I'm not hooking up some cheaply made cable that does not match the looks of my system...Love your review...
Love it love it love it we need you back in full strength my brother get well soon PS I bought Kimber cable nearly 20 years ago still using it today I have hero interconnects an 8 TC speaker cable really good product for money
I use Blue jean cables ofc the ones you showed at the end 12 awg x 3 = 7awg interwined. Not the prettiest but sound great. Modified my Banana's of course.
Furutech a36 is my winner comparing to both cables I still own and borrowed from stores. It wins because my ears and brain perceive it, compared to others as more detailed, effortless and gives a wide stage.
Gene, Curious if you have done any research on Soniquil Cables? They are sold through Raven Audio. They seem to be very well built at a very cheap price. They tout "No Fairy Dust". Was wondering what your thoughts are on them. Thanks!
Gene, I just posted on your thread about still being sick, and I really pray you feel better! I seem to remember in another cable video (probably over a year ago) that you talked about Monster Cable's "SuperFlex" and their design of keeping the positive and negative wires about 1/2" apart was wrong (inductance issue?), if I remember correctly. Can you explain this? I bought MonsterCable when I was in college in the late 80s, and have replaced it with 12 gauge Monoprice, except for a short run to my center channel speaker. I love all the information you give, and pray that you are able to do it for a long, long time!
I use just regular 10 or 12 guage copper cable. My opinion of expensive audio cables is this. If they make you happy good on you! All I ask is you dont get offended if I don't buy them. Personally I do everything in my power to hide every cable I have! I honestly consider cables a neccessary nuisance! I will agree that if you have speakers as big as you have and there isnt anyway to hide the wires that regular zip cord cable would look out of place. So in your case wire candy would be considered appropriate. However in my humble opinion I don't even like to see "pretty cables". But that's just me. Lol! By the way ,I want your speakers!! :)
I use 4 conductor 12 AWG SOW cable. With the conductors paralled it has about 750 mOhms per thousand feet or less than a milliohm per foot. I like it because while its heavy and thick its also super soft and flexible. Termination is a PITA though.
Some Excellent points on Resistants, Impedance. I Got some nice Analysis Plus 12, they were a Demo Sale, can't go Wrong with buying Cable's that were Demo, because there Broken in. Love my Analysis, There Theory on Traveling Signal through the Cable is solid in my Opinion. Didn't know Audioholics were doing Video Reviews, Awesome, love you guys, a Awesome place where I look for Reviews, down to Earth Reviews, keep up the good work.
Hi Gene, what do you think of Mogami w3103 cables? I have them setup in my system, I wonder if I can do better ? ...and thanks for taking a stand against snake oil cables =)
Sir thanks for your review om OUR Cables - we used very expensive testing equipment, like HP 8753 Network Analyzer and HP LCR bridge, Was design engineer for many years and for the PK Palladian power cord, was a fun time,
Belden 5002UP 4C for effective 9awg with similar style banana plugs from parts express. $550 for 500ft and $16 per 2 pair banana plugs. Thanks to your channel and some math I can rest assured on my dips down to below 4 ohms on my speakers, even on my long runs the audible sound wont be impacted. Plan to save the next 20 yrs to have a matching setup from RBH.
First, glad to see you looking so good! Excellent review there, with all the scientific measurements. I can hear the differences between cables. Yes, I said it. With many of the most expensive cables, I don't see how they could possibly NOT sound different. Why? Because they use completely disparate conductive materials, all sorts of different topologies and construction, and various gizmos incorporated into the cables. I have a set of Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables and also a set of heavy gauge Douglas Connection copper cables, and the difference between them is stark and immediately apparent. The Cerious cables are way, way brighter. I'm not saying they are more accurate than something like the Kimber 8TC because I have no way to know. Heck, based on your review, I may sell them off and go with the Kimber.
Thanks Gene. I use River cable Flexygy, came with a Certificate. You reviewed them on Audioholics a few years ago. They have worked fine and look great with my McIntosh amps and B&w speakers.
If we know the conductor spacing, we can calculate L and C. If its pretty standard, it should be ok. I'd have to see it. When buying speaker wire, make sure its pure OFC and not CCA and a high strand count and you should be ok.
If they don't have published specs yeah right, I have never ever seen a speaker cable with a published impedance spec for sale in Australia. I know you say 1 or 2 exist in America so I take your word for that. Because I don't have any facts or figures to go selecting speaker cables, I just stick to the pretty budget end of the market because I don't want to risk buying expensive smoke. That said, over some 30 years in HiFi & PA I absolutely do believe there are differences and the usual cable length gauge charts are inadequate. So, here is the thing. I did a lot of checking and measuring, of the auditorium PA including using contact cleaner conditioner on all the connections. However the sound was still a bit muddy. Eventually decided to invest a little in an experiment. I replaced the existing zip chord cables with shorter and heavier gauge zip chord. This gave the sound a lot more crispness. I suspect the drivers were then moving more precisely. After this, I did some EQ. I had never successfully improved anything much with previous EQ attempts. However, this time I had great success and the whole system came up to what was described by an audiophile as true sound reinforcement and the most natural and clear church PA he had ever heard. Those cables were 7.5 m 14ga studio acoustic zip chord purchased from a hardware chain store. They have a soft cover which I suspect is silicone. Anyway, this proved to me that cables can matter, and the common gage to run charts the electronic stores all use are absolute rubbish. To be clear, I am not commenting on top price range cables here. These are pretty much the lowest bracket speaker cables available. So, transferring this experience to vintage HiFi, I ran a Pioneer A400 amp into a pair Proac EBT speakers using just 1m of the same 14 ga cable. It sounded rather harsh to me and left my nerves kind of agitated after a long session. So I picked up a set of CEntrance Reserve Series cables from Drop. These were inexpensive 12ga 2.5m (8ft) so still a fairly short cable. The result is that I remain nice and relaxed listening to my music on this spare room setup now. So, Yes I think speaker cables matter, at least up to some point. I've developed a hypothesis on this. Assuming we have an amp of suitable power and fast rise and fall rates so it can track the audio signal accurately. Then we look at damping factor which is an impedance matching view, load/source impedances. Maybe, that's a better way to look at cable selection & budget. let's choose a cable based on it not having an undue adverse influence on damping factor. What is undue? well, I have no idea yet & I'm open to constructive suggestions. Most cable charts seem to be based around DC resistance and for that reason, do not give great performance results IME. I have tended to adopt this chart instead. www.avforums.com/attachments/onepercentcablec-jpg.560672/
Don't look now Gene, but there's a big ominous speaker looking over your left shoulder!
I use Blue Jeans. The exact one in the comparison graphs. Got my first pair for my turntable, and it sounded fine and looked OK. Then, decided to get the ones in your comparison for my Elac UF5. Same story. Sounds good, looks like a wire. Knowing I can get a quality cable for 1/10 the price that's soldered by hand in America will keep me a customer for life.
You were the one who turned me onto Kimber Kable. I now use their 12TC speaker cable and their Carbon balanced interconnects. I love ‘em and their customer service is wonderful.
I have been using Kimber Kable 12TC on my system for about 2 years now. We can debate the sonic benefit of the 8TC and 12TC cables, but I think we can agree they are undeniably beautiful to behold!
i wish you would do more speaker cable reviews.that way we can all build up a good idea of how much bs is in these expensive cables..
Glad to see you in good health!
Gene, it is so wonderfully heartwarming to see how much better you’re doing and back to doing what you love.
I’ve personally been using Canare 4S11 from Blue Jeans for years now.
Thanks, Gene!
those are my 2nd favorite cables.
Audioholics
That makes me feel as if I’m doing something right, Gene. lol. Thanks again, man!
Same here.
@@Audioholics gene could you look at qed genesis silver spiral with airlock. That's what I've been using
Hah just saw this. I use 4S11 for lower impedance speakers, 4S8 works just fine for my horns.
Kimber are the best. No doubt. can make out the difference easily between 4TC, 8TC and 12TC... not fake. these cables really make a difference.. i am kimber fan for life!
Okay, i gotta chime in. I've been an audio enthusiast for 15+ years. I've never had a crazy budget to buy expensive stuff. I'm trying to learn as much as i can and be objective. I listen to both sides and never let my bias get in the way of my learning. That being said, here's what i have gathered:
On one side, we have the party that shouts "snake oil" any chance they get. "It's all about the measurements" "you can't hear the difference" "the noise is outside the audible range, therefore it doesn't affect the audible range"
On the other side, we have gentlemen at psaudio and gr-research that swear by their claims that these things do matter, and that can repeatedly can demonstrate the differences and get ordinary folks to hear the differences and have given out advice that has had a dramatic effect on my personal system for the better.
Take what you will, but I tend to gravitate towards the latter group.
I made my own "kimber" cable. Just bought cheap normal copper cables in black and blue and braided it myself. I have banana plugs on them, but not the fancy expanding ones.
No shame in buying cables because they look better, thanks for the honesty!
I just made some cables for my dad with Canare 4S11 and DH Labs banana plugs using two conductors together to get 11 awg. Got his Definitive BP3000 towers bi-amped now. Your opinion of the 4S11 drove me to use that cable and they turned out great. They look great too!
Thanks for everything you do Gene!
Real wife real life real audio
Thanks man stay safe :)
I use blue jeans 10 gauge cable my theater room and I'm very happy with the performance🙂
I run BJC... because of YOU! Great video Gene. Keep on keepin on.
Kimber 8AG silver speaker and Kimber silver KCAG interconnects with Kimber illuminati cable from transport to DA converter. Have been using this cable for 26-years now.
I’ve used 8 PR for about 15 years. I won’t be changing any time soon.
thanks a bunch Gene! those are some damn good looking cables, but lawd, 1000 bucks!? i'll grab my appropriately gauged cables from amazon. seem to work great! good to see you looking healthy and well!
@@joanfrederick9176 thats awesome! i do like my cables i have and they seem to work just great for my system.
"Like a veil has been lifted" is a classic. So you spent 10,000, 15,000, maybe 20,000 plus for a system that sounded like it had a veil over it?
Yes?
A metaphysical veil between the origin of the sound and yourself
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey Gene. Have you had the opportunity to measure any Mogami, or Gotham cables? I wonder how they measure up to something like Kimber, or Blue Jeans.
Great to see starting off the first day of the 4th month of the year with such an insightful review!
I live pretty close to where Kimber cable is manufactured. I got my first set of cables from Ray Kimber himself. This was back in the mid 90's. I got to see how they made the cables, and the machines that braided the wires together. I gotta say that this stuff was quite innovative back then. I was lucky enough to get a set of cables from Ray Kimber himself. Never had to pay a dime for them. Back then , what I got was about $400 worth. It was explained to me, what kind of improvement in sound quality to expect. Ray wasn't wrong. I was amazed how much better my system sounded. I still have those original cables. I'd recommend Kimber Cable. They have been around for quite a long time now. They're located in Ogden Utah. Just a short distance from me. Still an amazing product.
I've got Monster Z3 cable for my left, right, and center channel. It looks beefy and cool, impressive to look at for sure. I paid 50 bucks for those cables, I was one of the last folks to stick with my store that was going out of business while most everyone else walked (Ultimate Electronics), and the guy in charge of the closing did me a solid.
Interesting- I’ve always thought high end cable claims were mostly bunk- I do own some Audioquest RCA connection cables but mostly I buy cables from Bluejeans in Seattle. I would never spend $1000 for a cable because the marginal gain I might get takes money away that would go otoward an upgraded component.
Enjoyed the review. About twenty years ago or so, I "built" my own bi-wire cables using 8PR and 4VS Kimber Kables. My hearing is not the best and my equipment is fairly bottom audiophile stuff (Adcom GFA 45 II and Legacy 2 speakers circa 1990). Got the wires from a shop going out of business for cheap. So the engineer in me went into overdrive to build something to replace my 12 ga zip cord (Apature, I think - but definitely step up from Monster). So this review has validated that I probably have a pretty good set cable set and should have no reason to move away from Kimber.
I've been using Kimber, both the 8TC and 4TC in the black & blue strands, for well over 20 years. I've never felt the need to go further up the product line in terms of quality. To your point, I have upgraded/updated the connectors over the years. The WBTs look nice, but my rig doesn't get changed out much, so as long as they have a solid connection now I'm hoping it will stay that way. I did buy them for the subjective performance that as published. They were definitely an expensive option then, but not close to the price now.
I've been using a pair for 4TC for decades. (when they were and not a "series"). I've always wondered if 8TC's would get me more bass, or sound any better. I have a simple setup: Rotel A12 integrated amp and i'm currently using Vienna Acoustic Haydn Grands. Your thoughts?
first and foremost, its really good to see and hear you back to you old self. that virus really kicked you ass. so, congrats on being healthy again and a big shout out to your wife for caring for you and picking up the slack.
back to audio stuff: good review of the looks, specs and views of the 8TC & 8PR but i'm left with the big question everybody's asking in their minds: "Yeah, but do they SOUND and different?" for that kind of money, we should at least have an educated opinion, without qualification...
thank you for ALL you do, scott
just purchased a pair at 3m long.took for advise Gene. ill see if it makes a difference.
I bought 8prs way back and while I can't claim they sound better than the zip cord I was using, they definitely look and feel better, giving the system a but if a grown up look. There's definitely a pride of ownership factor.
Gene, I have been using those connectors for two years now from parts express. They are less than 15 bucks a pair. For Kimber to charge 500.00 dollars for two of them is crazy?
The cable itself looks cool but way too much money at 700.00 dollars.
As I just brought a cable from them, I noticed it was paid to RKB Industrial. RKB Industrial owns Kimber and wbt connectors. Maybe their relationship had changed now and they are charging more money for those connectors. I seem to remember them being slot cheaper years ago as well.
I’m my experience kimber has always been the most realistic and down to earth high end cable company. Their 8tc does sound significantly better than any under $500 speaker cables I’ve tried.
That's good feedback. I'm going to upgrade from 8PR to 8TC this year.
I use custom RCA's that I made myself. Made with high quality cable with really high quality RCA's with silver solder. Yes, my wife could hear the difference as I replaced each of the cheap RCA's with my custom made ones. As to speaker cable I use 14 guage flat cable that works just fine.
Why fancy cables Gene...? Haven't we all had this discussion time and time again...? Doesn't the statement " It's all bullshit my friends " ring any bells...?
Bc you're not going to plug $100 cables into a 10k+ speaker. I can't imagine how much money Gene has cost best buy and audioquest through the years. But you right.. You know content is getting low with covid when Gene is making a cable video.
Edit: typo
@@crackills1 correct...
If you go to the old Audioholics article where they measured all the speakers. You’ll understand these cables are in alignment with the “it’s all bullshit my friends” statements, with some bling for funzies.
Speaker cables**
not speakers
@@SwirlingDragonMist yeah, some don't get it...
Glad you're back Gene. I've investigated and played with cables. My reference speaker cables are Audio Quest Mont Blanc (with factory upgraded ends). It's good to have a reference set - same with speakers. Without references, I've noticed tendency to become comfortable with nearly anything. I'll go down a path awhile, then bring a reference back to validate progress. Being a DIY type building speakers, certainly cables are easier. Lately, I use Belden 4x14awg for speakers (doubled-up), and Belden 1694a (6u coax) with matching Belden compression RCA ends for interconnect builds. I've never heard a difference between my DIY cables and reference. Which brings us to the request... could you do a video on how to measure critical cable attributes, and make public how each cable performs relative to others - like those graphs you showed in this video. Also, a deeper explanation of how each attribute affects sound. Also interested in why the cables perform better/worse (example: as gauge decreases, resistance increases, as length increases resistance increases, etc.). You could answer questions like: Solid core does?, mixture of gauges does?, purer copper does?, silver tinning does?, what protects against RFI and EMI, why twist, why weave, etc... I would like to know the facts from an educated EE.
Great choice. Wise decision. Am personally using 12TC kimber Kables for my system.
Still working on getting kimber balanced XLRs.
Braided wire makes a lot of difference.
I got my 12tcs from China with carbon fibre barrel connectors rhodium crap etc 2m 75 pounds. Sound xcellent
I use kimber 8tc with custom klipsch belle speakers. I definatly heard a difference I love those Cables, simply love them!
I use 12/2 speaker wire and I install my own Sewell Direct connectors, I sheath it with braided nylon for glam and I install wire trousers with a finishing of 3:1 color coded heat shrink. Makes a beautiful and reliable and pleasant and functional cord.
Okay Gene, you are right audio jewelry and for that alone it's a must buy. I think the P8 is a better buy. When it comes to jewelry the skies the limit. I went to the Munich Hi End two years ago and visited a Spanish vendor who manufactured cable adapters made of pure silver and shaped into dragon or alligator heads. They had gemstones for eyes and cost a cool 12,000 Euros a pair. I am sure they worked well, looked even cooler. Eye candy for the ultimate rig!
WBT Rocks! Use them on all my amps and speakers.
Just bought a pair of 2M bi-wire unterminated Kimber 12VS cables. Completely aware that it's audio jewelry, but I do like woven design with the black and gray color scheme. No regrets.
when i finally upgraded from zip cable, i went with Blue Jeans, because their philosophy toward this stuff is the same as mine, but their knowledge is much much greater
I use Belden speaker wire from Blue Jeans currently. Not pretty but no doubt legit.
I use Audio Envy cables. To Captain Payne, the owner of the company, capacitance is his primary bug-a-boo. I have electrostats. The most important spec for the panels is capacitance, so these work incredibly well here. They also make a somewhat smaller difference in interconnects. They are hand built, and make an audible difference to even casual listeners. They are also affordable.
I use mediabridge 12 gauge ultra series speaker cable, probably considered low end compared to multi thousand dollar systems but it works for my pioneer avr and Polk monitor 70s lol
Mediabridge 12AWG Ultra Series Speaker Cable w/Dual Gold Plated Banana - Soldered Termination - Great balance between zip and eye candy.
Much to learn You still have
I have 12TCs in my system that I like a lot.
Hey Gene, so nice to see you feeling better! You always work so hard for the audio lover! Thank you. Kimber, good stuff ! End of story!
Good to see you again, you seem healthy. Bravo!!
I hope you do part 2 on the installation of these
Best place to buy Kimber Kable 8pr for $5.60? I can’t find it listed at that price anywhere Gene.
Gene ... What are you're thoughts on the Kimber 8vs cables please
Gene... I have a 35ft speaker cable run. Should I go with a pair of BJC 10 gauge or try and run balanced from my preamp for the 35ft instead and put the amps closer to the speakers (if even possible). Speakers are Magnepan .7’s.
A little more than a decade ago, I had a pretty good relationship with a stereo shop selling mid range stuff and some higher end things. Not that I bought much, but staying pleasant and generally being nice was me and my friends' ticket... We were allowed to mess around within reason, and test everything in any combination, bring our gear to have a private shootout.... Basically anything we think is prudent. And then I tripped on one of their self-built speaker cable with that WBT screw-tighten banana plugs. Thankfully the connector's banana pin broke instead of the speaker tipping over. As I want to remain on good terms with the shop, I immediately went to the owner of the shop and ask them how much I own them for the damage. They were gracious enough to charge me for the part only and we were good after that.
Pro-tip... don't trip on your speaker cable...
KImber Kables are very well engineered and very good sounding wire. I have used it for years and have lots of experience with 4VS and 4TC, both single and bi-wired with very high end speakers and it sounds great - it also good looking wire, not to mention it is a very quiet cable because of their proprietary weave geometry. Can't go wrong with it. I am now interested in hearing the 8VS vs 8TC.
@anonanon 10 It certainly can be dependent on the associated gear, such as comparing the wire with a $500 pr of speakers against a $10,000 pr. One thing is for sure, the geometry of Kimber Kable does a great job of rejecting noise, allowing more details to be heard IMO.
Awesome as always! Myself, my favorites are Supra (Jenving). Ever had any of their stuff up for review perchance?
How did you like the Hero interconnects? Do you recommend any other KK products beyond speaker cables?
Nice to see! I use Kimber throughout my rig, mostly because they seem to offer good design, materials and build quality at price points beyond which I’d get skeptical that these criteria are making giant improvements - in other words, my guess was that Kimber got it about right on the “point of diminishing returns”, and that would be better to spend next dollar on some room treatment, another album, or whatever. Glad to see that some of this can actually be measured objectively.
I’am using Analysis plus ( big silver oval) What are you think about this cables .? Thanks for your video .
I've had Kimber 8TC/4TC bi-wire cables for years. I switch between these and MIT Terminator 2 bi-wire cables I was talked into. Speakers are Spica TC-60s, Amp is a Sonographe SA-250, Pre is AVA Ultra EC with a heavily modified Thorens TD-318 w/RDC platter and an Anthem CD-1 CD player. (Various other sources). Sometimes I like the Kimber better and other times the MIT seems a better match. The Kimber is "Brighter". Buying nothing new for now. Tried this with Dahlquist DQ-8s as well. Like the Spicas better.
I use the Kimber 4PR. Sadly, my equipment is not worth what a pair of 8TC cost.
Glad to see you beat that nasty bug! I enjoy your videos thanks.
Gene would you say the cables are danceable? I find certain cables give me a feeling of wanting to get up and dance to the beat! Would you say these Kimbers provide that?
I have the Shunyata Ztron speakercable, what do you think of them?
I got the 12TC and it sounds awesome.
Really, really happy you made this video on the Kimbers. Having long known of your well stated "opinion" relevant to cable company "claims" - I have stuck with Blue Jeans cables.
And, I love them and recommend them. Now, having said this, I am seriously considering the prospect of up-grading my system right from source to speakers and... I'd like to consider speaker cables ... IF IT MAKES SENSE! (as in common with no pseudo science) I just checked out the price for a pair of Kimber 8TC @ 3M each and I am quite happy with the price. So I am clear now - this is what I am going to do and thanks to you and this video I will not be second guessing myself and wondering if I made a good choice. I'll wait until you approve the more advanced alien technologies that spill forth from the most immediate parallel universe but for now the Kimbers will suffice.
Welcome back!
I have Kimber 12TC with the WBT bananas and 12VS with the standard banana plugs. Thanks for being forthright. Yes, the Kimber's are audio jewelry. 99% of audiophile cables are jewelry. And, yes the WBT connectors are awesome in engineering and price. At least the Kimbers perform!
I can attest that the folks at Kimber Kable are nice folks. One day after finishing work while in the field in Ogden, UT, I stopped by their factory. They showed me how they make their cables, the raw materials they use, etc. That was a cool experience.
Gene, can you try to get some Kimber Carbon cables and measure those?
I can ask. I'm really impressed with the company. They are in close proximity to RBH Sound so if you get a chance, go demo RBH speakers next time you visit Kimber.
Please please please Gene, don't sell out on us! ;)
Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, personally I don't see anything that attractive in the Kimbers, maybe shinier than the BlueJeans but definitely not $1000 worth of pretty. MHO is that you'd be MUCH better off spending $100 on some good 10 or 12 gauge zip cord and putting the left over $900 into better speakers. I remember years back being sucked into buying Kimber PBJ interconnects because of rave reviews in the magazines only to have their unshielded design pick up hum like crazy in my system. The only good news was I threw them in a drawer for 15 years or so and then sold them at a profit in ebay.
I really do like the locking banana plugs Kimber uses but they are around $130 a set of 4 on ebay. So for my 5.2.4 multich rig I'd need 9 sets $1170 ouch.
I see some other locking plugs for $30-45 a set of 4, might look into them at some point.
I currently use some 10g OFC zip type cord sold on ebay from a car audio company called Sky High. They sell a full line of cable sizes etc and I've had mine in the system for around 4 years now, nice stuff. Terminated at both ends with some nice gold bananas that use dual set screws to lock in the wire and are a good tight fit in my speakers & gear.
If you want to build your own kick butt cables I'm now seeing Sky High has expanded their cable line to all sort of sizes/etc. I see some great 8g OFC zip sold for $1.99 by the foot. Add your fav terminations and you'll have some great cables that can't be beat.
www.ebay.com/itm/OFC-TRUE-8-Gauge-AWG-BY-THE-FOOT-RD-BK-Oxygen-Free-Speaker-Wire-Car-Home-Audio/292931278549?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225086%26meid%3Da2059bb245634ee5945c4a5ad7f093fc%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D272368323740%26itm%3D292931278549%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DSky+High+Car+Audio&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
Good evening Gene .
tell me please .RCA kimber D60 cable it’s one of the best too .? Thank
All the best and thanks for your video .!!🍻
I've had the varystrand 8tc's for a four years +, I was going to top them about a fifteen months ago, after buying atlas marvos for interconnect. Just couldn't get the sound satisfying and was ready to seriously blow cash further. I didn't! I re-tuned my thinking and allowed my ears to become more critical and the adjusted the room acoustics with absorption and diffusion. Nothing crazy just enough to keep things alive and a better balanced sound through the audio spectrum. Further speaker placement fiddling also. Well just as well I did, saved a wad of cash and got a dynamic bang, with more than enough bass, for which I thought the 8tc lacked. The best decision was to compromise the near field listening guide as gospel. The other gain was not being suckered to the barrage of audio hype, I got through the smokey mirror bias.
I'm not saying audio wholistic nivana, a better room setup will bring this closer, but I do have audio satisfaction. Cheers Gene for your talks.
I like your reviews. You talk about things my late uncle told me about back in the 90s when I was a teen just getting into it. He was real big on the fact that he never heard a difference from one cable to another and that when he did spend money on them it was for cosmetic purposes. I am using monoprice 12 awg
First off Gene I love your shows...
I'm up here in Canada and have always been a semi- audiophile...my work always kept me away from the house.
Gene is there a way to ask you some questions instead of the open forum?
So...Gene likes an expanding banana...
Yes they look great...yes they do sound great...Kimber kable quality is awesome...yes there pricey...and at the end of the day I'm not hooking up some cheaply made cable that does not match the looks of my system...Love your review...
Love it love it love it we need you back in full strength my brother get well soon PS I bought Kimber cable nearly 20 years ago still using it today I have hero interconnects an
8 TC speaker cable really good product for money
I use Blue jean cables ofc the ones you showed at the end 12 awg x 3 = 7awg interwined. Not the prettiest but sound great. Modified my Banana's of course.
I use the 8PRs and they are great. They were a nice upgrade from my last cables.
Furutech a36 is my winner comparing to both cables I still own and borrowed from stores.
It wins because my ears and brain perceive it, compared to others as more detailed, effortless and gives a wide stage.
Gene,
Curious if you have done any research on Soniquil Cables? They are sold through Raven Audio. They seem to be very well built at a very cheap price. They tout "No Fairy Dust". Was wondering what your thoughts are on them. Thanks!
Agree. I can make my cable look pretty. Lots my jackets out there and plugs.
Great video, but for all the work to hide them I wouldn't spend more on pretty cables. Thanks for the blue jeans suggestion!
Gene, did you buy the cables, and if so were they at full price ?.
Gene, I just posted on your thread about still being sick, and I really pray you feel better!
I seem to remember in another cable video (probably over a year ago) that you talked about Monster Cable's "SuperFlex" and their design of keeping the positive and negative wires about 1/2" apart was wrong (inductance issue?), if I remember correctly. Can you explain this? I bought MonsterCable when I was in college in the late 80s, and have replaced it with 12 gauge Monoprice, except for a short run to my center channel speaker.
I love all the information you give, and pray that you are able to do it for a long, long time!
I use just regular 10 or 12 guage copper cable. My opinion of expensive audio cables is this. If they make you happy good on you! All I ask is you dont get offended if I don't buy them. Personally I do everything in my power to hide every cable I have! I honestly consider cables a neccessary nuisance! I will agree that if you have speakers as big as you have and there isnt anyway to hide the wires that regular zip cord cable would look out of place. So in your case wire candy would be considered appropriate. However in my humble opinion I don't even like to see "pretty cables". But that's just me. Lol! By the way ,I want your speakers!! :)
Hello,how about Kimber Hero Interconnect? Ist it good? Did you hear improvement?
They dont have screen so how about interference?
Have you listened and what do you think of audioquest speaker cable people seem to rate it highly. Are you a fan of solid core cable
Good to see you back in good health!
I had excellent results with Kimber, Transparent and audience cables.
I use 4 conductor 12 AWG SOW cable. With the conductors paralled it has about 750 mOhms per thousand feet or less than a milliohm per foot. I like it because while its heavy and thick its also super soft and flexible. Termination is a PITA though.
Do you recommend Kimber Kable 12TC? I have the Wharfedale Evo 4.4.
Some Excellent points on Resistants, Impedance. I Got some nice Analysis Plus 12, they were a Demo Sale, can't go Wrong with buying Cable's that were Demo, because there Broken in. Love my Analysis, There Theory on Traveling Signal through the Cable is solid in my Opinion. Didn't know Audioholics were doing Video Reviews, Awesome, love you guys, a Awesome place where I look for Reviews, down to Earth Reviews, keep up the good work.
Hi Gene, what do you think of Mogami w3103 cables? I have them setup in my system, I wonder if I can do better ? ...and thanks for taking a stand against snake oil cables =)
Sir thanks for your review om OUR Cables - we used very expensive testing equipment, like HP 8753 Network Analyzer
and HP LCR bridge, Was design engineer for many years and for the PK Palladian power cord, was a fun time,
Belden 5002UP 4C for effective 9awg with similar style banana plugs from parts express. $550 for 500ft and $16 per 2 pair banana plugs. Thanks to your channel and some math I can rest assured on my dips down to below 4 ohms on my speakers, even on my long runs the audible sound wont be impacted. Plan to save the next 20 yrs to have a matching setup from RBH.
First, glad to see you looking so good! Excellent review there, with all the scientific measurements. I can hear the differences between cables. Yes, I said it. With many of the most expensive cables, I don't see how they could possibly NOT sound different. Why? Because they use completely disparate conductive materials, all sorts of different topologies and construction, and various gizmos incorporated into the cables. I have a set of Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables and also a set of heavy gauge Douglas Connection copper cables, and the difference between them is stark and immediately apparent. The Cerious cables are way, way brighter. I'm not saying they are more accurate than something like the Kimber 8TC because I have no way to know. Heck, based on your review, I may sell them off and go with the Kimber.
Thanks Gene. I use River cable Flexygy, came with a Certificate. You reviewed them on Audioholics a few years ago. They have worked fine and look great with my McIntosh amps and B&w speakers.
Gene, what is your take on Monoprice monolith 14 gauge speaker wire? Looks to be high quality...but they dont show any measurements.
If we know the conductor spacing, we can calculate L and C. If its pretty standard, it should be ok. I'd have to see it. When buying speaker wire, make sure its pure OFC and not CCA and a high strand count and you should be ok.
I’ve spent years trashing speaker cables but I’m just gonna spend the best part of $10k cabling these speakers out! 😂
If they don't have published specs yeah right, I have never ever seen a speaker cable with a published impedance spec for sale in Australia. I know you say 1 or 2 exist in America so I take your word for that. Because I don't have any facts or figures to go selecting speaker cables, I just stick to the pretty budget end of the market because I don't want to risk buying expensive smoke. That said, over some 30 years in HiFi & PA I absolutely do believe there are differences and the usual cable length gauge charts are inadequate. So, here is the thing. I did a lot of checking and measuring, of the auditorium PA including using contact cleaner conditioner on all the connections. However the sound was still a bit muddy. Eventually decided to invest a little in an experiment. I replaced the existing zip chord cables with shorter and heavier gauge zip chord. This gave the sound a lot more crispness. I suspect the drivers were then moving more precisely. After this, I did some EQ. I had never successfully improved anything much with previous EQ attempts. However, this time I had great success and the whole system came up to what was described by an audiophile as true sound reinforcement and the most natural and clear church PA he had ever heard. Those cables were 7.5 m 14ga studio acoustic zip chord purchased from a hardware chain store. They have a soft cover which I suspect is silicone. Anyway, this proved to me that cables can matter, and the common gage to run charts the electronic stores all use are absolute rubbish. To be clear, I am not commenting on top price range cables here. These are pretty much the lowest bracket speaker cables available.
So, transferring this experience to vintage HiFi, I ran a Pioneer A400 amp into a pair Proac EBT speakers using just 1m of the same 14 ga cable. It sounded rather harsh to me and left my nerves kind of agitated after a long session. So I picked up a set of CEntrance Reserve Series cables from Drop. These were inexpensive 12ga 2.5m (8ft) so still a fairly short cable. The result is that I remain nice and relaxed listening to my music on this spare room setup now. So, Yes I think speaker cables matter, at least up to some point.
I've developed a hypothesis on this. Assuming we have an amp of suitable power and fast rise and fall rates so it can track the audio signal accurately. Then we look at damping factor which is an impedance matching view, load/source impedances. Maybe, that's a better way to look at cable selection & budget. let's choose a cable based on it not having an undue adverse influence on damping factor. What is undue? well, I have no idea yet & I'm open to constructive suggestions.
Most cable charts seem to be based around DC resistance and for that reason, do not give great performance results IME. I have tended to adopt this chart instead. www.avforums.com/attachments/onepercentcablec-jpg.560672/
How about the smaller 4TC?
Loved this review! Thank you, Gene