Thanks for stopping by. Let me know how the audio/visuals are please. Trying to get my camera set up again after getting it replaced. I don't remember my previous settings! Here I tried to test some more powder charges and I'm still getting pretty decent groups! I think I am just lucky with a good range of charges on this brass, at least while new. I am getting my prep work done now, annealing tonight, and then I'll size and charge these again. See if things hold true, or have some slight changes I need to account for. I am thinking I am done wasting time testing different charges, but please let me know what you think! I hope I'm on the right path, but I would appreciate any tips or advice with what I am seeing here! Thank you for hanging out for a few! See you on the next one!!
Hiya Chad. I wish I had answers to your questions, but as you know, I’m no rifleman. Good show here, none the less. I enjoy keeping up with your progress. 🤛🏻🔫🇺🇸
@viejo2a hey, thanks for stopping by. I know 1 of my viewers will give me some good thoughts. I am convinced now that I have done all I can. Annealing first 100 tonight, then start sizing and run it all again. I think getting the mandrel die added should help a good bit with my numbers. I am just shocked that pretty much an entire grain from 38.9 to 40.1 is giving me good looking groups (aside from my own input errors) that will be plenty adequate for my PRS needs. I think I have mentally picked my starting test load after the sizing. If those first several do well, then I may just stop powder tests and tweak the tuner and call it good for this brass! Thanks for stopping by, Walter. Always appreciate seeing you. Have a great weekend and see you on a live soon!
Mornin Feller! Soot is gonna happen as result of combustion. That what I see is nit troublesome or excessive. That vertical string is likely completely your body ergos. Its a tell tail scope shifting sign but Im sure your solid. Other folks Id say check your action screws torque. But Im pretty sure your fine. (Dont hurt ta check) See ya later tonight!
@cw2a Good ideas. I should check my torque again. Never hurts to make sure. I had 1 group all in a horizontal line and one in a vertical line. Still decent sized, so I'm thinking mostly my position. Wiping sweat from my face and eyes every 2 shots probably has more to do with that result. Could be a weird effect of the powder changes, but I think low likelihood of that. Pretty confident it's a me issue, lol. I figured the neck soot was normal, but wanted to make sure! Nothing past the shoulder area, so should be sealing well! See ya this evening, CW!! Have a great weekend and talk to ya soon!
@BoomstickMark5 thank ya, Boomstick! I hoped for some obvious good or bad loads, but they all turned out pretty good, lol. On to the next steps and see how dialed in I can get this before season starts!! Have a great weekend, sir!
Carbon on the shoulder and neck is normal as long as it's not going past the shoulder. My brass doesn't grow because I run a tight head space brass not growing is a good thing. Also remember seating depth is for better groups. Don't be afraid to jump 80 thousands or more
@kyley808 Excellent! I figured it was fine since not going past the neck. Good to have another confirmation of that. So, no need to keep trying powder changes, stick with one and maybe try some different depths! Added to my list!! Thank you for swinging by again this week! Have a great weekend, Kyle!!
@kyley808 Yes, I was watching his video on it again. It sizes the base of the case! Will be a good time to test the Alpha case lube!! And of course, after getting the Cortina die, I see that Area419 is about to release their 7/8ths sizing die!!! Their decap pin is spring loaded and a mandrel shaft all built into one. I like the features listed, so I will get it when released for my case and give it a test!! Thank you again!
@@ChadKelly7yes try going longer jumps because that will close the space in the case. Also if you wanted to save money you can get a mighty armory decapping spring loaded die it's the best and area419 copied him
@kyley808 So, try a little deeper seating. Like, 1 or 2 thousandths at a time? I seat base to ogive, and even then there is at 2 thou variance. Usually within 1, but a few 2 sneak thru. That would make sense. H4350 seems to like running hotter. I am more interested in the die and the mandrel interested to see how the mandrel material compares. I don't decap when sizing. I run thru an APP, remove primers, then anneal, clean, lube and size (now mandrel), clean again, then prime, powder, bullet. I like having the primers out on first cleaning so it has a little better chance to clean the pocket. But, I don't worry too much about it. Mighty Armory seems to make a lot of good stuff. I do need to get some of their products at some point. I am hoping the Area419 die will have taken all the things people like about the best dies and try to incorporate as many features as possible into 1 die. We will see someday. Who knows when, but I will get an email. I got the Xero email like 6 in the morning and had my order in before I really woke up in October, lol. Hopefully, same thing and I get to snag one of the first to hit the market. I don't mind spending money kn good or cool stuff. Benefits of being single and no kids 😂
I like that 39.9 charge. H4350 is a bit odd in that its ES and SD typically shrink as you go towards hotter charges... it just likes being driven hard (which is odd because that's normally how ball powders behave, yet H4350 is extruded). One thing that pricked up my ears was when you said that the Cortina mandrel die works the base of the brass as well. That makes me wonder if it will stretch the length of the brass? If you shrink a cylinder's diameter, that material has to go somewhere, so it makes sense to me that it might stretch the length. You might want to keep an eye on that because, based on your Alpha brass necks not stretching, it seems that you have a rather tight chamber (or, as we talked about earlier, I still suspect that Alpha brass is hard as nails and it might just not stretch like normal brass). Speaking of that... the lack of brass stretch (possibly due to higher than normal hardness) could be why you see soot on the necks. I'm so used to gas guns that when I saw your sooty brass, I was thinking, "Man, that's really good." LOL! My brass all comes out neck to head looking like it just spent 16 hours in a coal mine. 🤣
@DocJustinT Yes, that is the charge that I have settled on for after sizing testing. Assuming it doesn't fall apart, I will just use the tuner and run with it from there. I don't think I can glean much more. I am surprised that the whole range of 39 seems pretty good! I figured some would be obviously bad or amazing, but overall fairly consistent. What I am concerned with is after sizing, what does it do. I will find out this weekend hopefully! So, I think (and just a guess/assumption) that Eric made this die like he did because he is against neck size only dies. He believes in full length sizing every time. I figure he made his die like this so if someone who only neck sizes uses it, they will be forced to size the body as well 🤣 In my thinking, possibly wrong, but if you full length size first, then running the mandrel should do minimal, if any, actual sizing. Most should happen when F/L sizing. But yes, I will watch that. I have my comparator thing I showed here in before and after firing with no growth in the shoulder. So, I will be inspecting a lot as I set it all up!! I keep thinking I will damage one of these Alphas and then I can mail you one to test. Not happened yet, but I agree is is likely harder composition than most others. Maybe how people get 60 to 80 firings out of them!! I figure this brass should last me at least 2 barrels, lol. I got a few people agree that my little soot is no worries. Not going past the neck, so all good! I don't recall this on my Lapua, but again, this is likely harder! Good info! I will keep testing. Lots to do this weekend!! Talk to ya later, have a great weekend, Justin!!!
@ChadKelly7 , hey Chad, I hope all's well for you. I just learned something from Bryan Litz regarding "barrel burner" cartridges (something I never really paid attention to because I don't have any hot rod calibers): he said that from brand new, rifles speed up and often settle down to a fairly constant speed, which I knew, but what I learned is that it is due to the chamber fire cracking instead of "smoothing out" of minor imperfections in the barrel. What he said is that it is more pronounced in high performance rounds, and he even called out the 6 CM specifically, because the fire cracking adds friction, which adds pressure, and added pressure means the powder burns hotter, which makes more velocity. So, that got me to thinking that after you did your deep cleaning, you would have removed a bit of the fire cracking, and because of that your friction and pressures dropped, which likely dropped the velocities (Bryan said this is a common occurrence). So... maybe you don't need to chase your load's charge back up to your previous speed after all because it's just due to being really clean now? Just food for thought.
@DocJustinT That is actually interesting. And tracks with the data I just got over the weekend. After sizing and mandrel 20 cases (10 from each box/lot) and shooting, my speeds were about 15 to 20 faster with same powder. I have not cleaned super heavy since that last big one, but around 200 rounds now I think. I was thinking I would drop a tenth, just to try and stay under 3,000. My speed went from 2980-2985 to 3000-3005. Had good numbers, in my opinion. First 10 had 4.1 SD I think 😂. So, I wonder if that means I should not really waste time cleaning. Just run it till needs replacing around 2,000? Or stick with cleaning after every few matches, like 400-500 rounds. Something new to think about and factor into my decisions! My big mental conundrum I am thinking on now is how important shoulder bump actually is. I think I got too much lube on a few cases and shoulders pushed .002 to .003. But, I loaded and shot them in the group with the 0 bumps and .001. Grouped good enough and chrono numbers did not correlate to the difference in shoulder bump. So, I don't know if worth chasing my die depth, or just lighten up on the lube and not worry about it. All the numbers and target says nothing to stress over. But, I see different things and I assume I am doing things wrong 🤣 Downside of OCD like I have!! This is some great info for me to think about. Not sure how I could test other than run it with no cleaning and see what happens. I think I will still clean every so often. I will probably order a barrel in the next week or two so I am ready when time comes.
@ChadKelly7 , I'm a big fan of frequent cleanings, so my advice is either clean regularly or don't... just maintain consistency. However, I find it easier to keep a barrel consistently clean than variably dirty. As for the shoulder bump, I think that if you're only a couple thousandths too much is better than not enough, but this minor difference would only really impact how easily (or difficult) your rounds chamber in your rifle. Just today I got a mandrel die with like 6 or 7 mandrel inserts for my various calibers as well as a case neck trimmer (with corresponding neck pilots) and the thing that boggles my mind is that the mandrels are sized to set neck tension so they are slightly under-sized (like my .338 mandrel is actually .334" and .308 is .304"), but the pilots of the neck trimmer are "bullet diameter" so it takes a lot of pressure to get them into the trimmer. It makes no sense! I might have to polish down the trimmer pilots because it seems silly to have to mandrel the necks up to bullet diameter just to neck turn them and then have to go back and resize them down again and mandrel them up to neck tension (under-sized) diameters.
@DocJustinT Yeah, I will be attempting a cleaning schedule this season. Time is the biggest hurdle for me to overcome. Good to know! I was thinking shoulder bump should only affect ease if chambering. I saw no measurable chnsge in speeds or group size, so not important on target in my testing. That is odd. Supposed to trim after sizing, so it should not need to be sized again! Mine has a tapered pilot on the cutting head I think. I have the Henderson that does trim, chamfer and demur in 1 step. Now I want to check my new cutting head to make sure it will work lol It's a .243 head, but mandrel is .241. This could be tricky! Lucky for me, my brass doesn't seem to grow so maybe I won't have to trim for a long time 🤣😂 I would say to test a few before polishing down. They may be marked for each size, but actually made 2 to 3 thou under so they function properly. Good luck with the new tool!! A good trimmer is a lifesaver!
@Charles_ONeal hello, Charles! Man, that sounds downright freezing!!! The last 2 weeks been the worse of the summer. Over 105 by 10 in the morning a few days. Tomorrow is not just heat advisory, but extreme heat advisory!! I bet you are just super happy to get back home to this 😂 At least we are on the home stretch now. Few more weeks and we should have another of our nice 3 or 4 days before it gets too cold 🤣 Safe travels home and enjoy your trip! Have a great weekend, sir!!
A couple of things. Pick a load and stick with it. Your 6 Creedmoor has a barrel life of 1000-1500 rounds before they can become a practice barrel. You are using a good portion just testing. Take one you like and use the tuner. IMO Tthe flat spots on your necks are from ejecting the case. The ejector is forcing it up against the side of the action as you extract the round. The soot could be multiple things and nothing to worry about IMO. Now if it was not contained to the neck and on the case body that would be a problem. You could try more neck tension to see if you can get the combustion process further along before the bullet is released from the neck. Your last group with the vertical stringing is likely you. My guess is the support bag was compressing under recoil. Call me some night and we can discuss anything else you have questions about.
@mln19631 Yeah, I figured I wanted to get all these cases fired new and then settle them after sizing. Adding the mandrel step to the process with these as well. Just annealed the first 100 last night. Next batch tonight. Still have 10 not loaded at all, and a few leftover from the last match to fire. Likely use to warm up from now on and work thru them. I just remember that things changed a little after sizing with the Lapua brass, so I want to keep this Alpha all on the same level. After seeing that most charges I picked are plenty decent group size, mostly depending on if I could see target well or not so that's on me not the loading, I am going to pick 1 and tune from there. I think I like the 39.9 load. Little better speed. But, will see after size and mandrel! The neck dents were the unfired necks! I thought that was giving the 1 or 2 out of range speeds in each 10 lot, but didn't really match up with chrono numbers. They seemed to all smooth out after fired tho. So, not as much of a concern as I thought. Not sure why I would have 1 or 2 out of each group of 10 that would be 20 to 30 fps out of the majority that were within 10 to 15. Strange. Probably not something I will totally eliminate for a while. But, it bothers me so I want to beat it!! Danged numbers always gotta match!! OCD is gonna get me in a deep rabbit hole with this 😂🤣 Seemed the body was always clean, so just a little soot at the neck. Less as powder went up. Staying just under 3,000 seems to be the sweet spot for me. Over and the numbers spread out a lot more. I am curious to see how they behave after sizing. Plan to load 10 first, test them, then if they seem as good or better than these fire forming tests, I will just turn the tuner a bit and call it good. I think any of these charges will give me plenty good enough performance for what we are doing! I was hitting the smallest KYL targets at the last match while fire forming, so I should be solid! And now I will have up to 200 I can make all the same!! Trying to get ready to go try Ninnekah! Get my butt whooped by the big boys 😂 As we get closer to match time, I am sure I will come up with lots of questions. So hot the last weeks I get out just as sun goes down. Still over 100, but not as bad with sun not bearing down. But, I have to shine a flashlight kn the target to see it, lol. Not the best for shooting good groups probably, but I think I got the data I was wanting out of this. Good to hear from you, Mark!!! Talk to ya soon. Better get your practice in! I am coming for you from the 1st match this season!! 🤣
@@ChadKelly7 I didn’t realize the dented necks were from virgin brass. I always run a mandrel through new brass for just such occasions. 99% of the time there isn’t a need, but occasionally it corrects a small ding. Now that you have a mandrel coming you have that capability too. I’m glad to see you finally started protecting your aim point by not shooting at it! It’s the key to consistency my friend. Be careful testing in these hot conditions, it’s an easy way to roast a barrel. Especially on a hot rod like a 6 Creedmoor when it’s over 100° out. They do not cool down in these temperatures. I will be in Nashville for the first match. It just so happens it’s the wife’s 50th birthday that weekend (15th). We already had plans to celebrate it with her cousins in TN. You’ll get your chance to whoop on me in October.
@mln19631 Yeah, I thought it was an issue. But, no. I marked them and when I had an outside the norm speed checked that piece, but it didn't match up with those cases. More than likely just the natural inconsistency in the new pieces. I started with no mandrel, so figured I would keep the same thru these first firings. Plan is to load 10 from each box/lot number and see how close they are after sizing etc., then if not major difference just have a bulk pile of 200 cases. Not worry about keeping each lot number separate in my process. Hopefully that is how it works out at least! I pretty much had to waif for sundown. I would start about 8:30 and shine a flashlight on the target. Still hot, but not terrible. My little barrel cooler got a workout!! I was watching the temp strip and waited for it to cool down between groups. Have they said which day the first will be? At the last one, there was talk of the 3rd Sunday instead of 2nd Sunday. Not heard if that got decided or not yet. Either way, hope you two have a fun trip to Nashville! That should be pretty cool.
@@ChadKelly7 Yes, the third Sunday of the month for centerfire guns. Dusty changed it because he hosts NRL22 matches too. The 22 matches will be the first Sunday and big guns on the third Sunday. So you know what that means, time to come out and play on 22 days!
@mln19631 I can give my TX22 pistol a try! I can hit at 100 yards with it. Might be fun. I would be super fast changing positions 😂😂 I do need to get a good 22. Almost jumped on the Area419 build a few weeks ago. Complete rifle, semi custom build. Was like 2800 or so. Talked myself out of it. Would still need optic and didn't think I should start another project while still trying to get the hang of this one!! Trying to be slightly smarter in my older age! I think I may just go ahead and order a barrel in the next few weeks. Get it before election for sure, just in case. Got like 14 or 15 pounds of powder, 1300 or so projectiles, and like 14k primers. Should be good for another barrel without buying much more than projectiles! Figure it would be smart to go ahead and get one soon. I worry about changing it. Have the tool, but I will cross that bridge when the time comes. Dang it, I do wanna try a 22 though! Having it on Sunday instead Saturday makes it very tempting.
Just add my opinion and trust me I'm no professional. Take a head space comparator and measure the alpha brass and resize a piece of the alpha with current setting on your die and measure how much it bumped just to make sure. Switching from Lapua to Alpha brass I'm sure there will be some minor difference. And to me if you're having the same accuracy with less powder and close to the same ES SD use the lighter load save on some powder and maybe extend the barrel life a few hundred rounds too who knows. But as I said I'm no professional so take what I say with a grain of salt.
@jesusisking4652 Yeah, that is kinda my plan. I have 10 cases still not fired, so I have a reference point. But, with my MIC shoulder measurement tool, it's easy to get the comparative sizes. Hoping it doesn't change, that would be nice to keep the die set the same for both!! That would open up the chance to load up for several matches at once on a rainy weekend! I have a backup plan if that it not the case, but waiting for the new Area419 die to release. I may just set that to the Alpha and my current to the Lapua. Then just quick change dies if I keep using both brands. There is a difference in the necks, so my bushing will need to be changed. That is easy enough though. In my mind, it makes sense that the die should be set more to my chamber than the brass. Since I am trying to resize the brass for my chamber. I will find out this weekend, either way! Annealing last night and tonight. Then clean and get ready to size. Trying to keep the 2 boxes separate for now. Just in case there is a difference from lot to lot. But, every piece I have measured between the 1 boxes are as near identical as imaginable, so I think it will all be the same across all 200 pieces. Still a lot to do to get ready for match season in a few weeks, but I think I am closer now to having this part of the work finished!! Thanks for coming by again, I appreciate seeing you here! Have yourself a wonderful weekend!!!
@jhnstuhlmiller So far things have been going well with it. I have a wide range of powder to choose from looks like! I will keep an eye on them each firing and see when it starts moving on me. Maybe a harder formulation on their brass. I anneal every time, so I think these should last me a while. Maybe several barrels worth 😂 The little black comparator is the RCBS Mic tool. They are cartridge specific. Good for me, I don't have a lot of caliber variations. Also comes with a tool for measuring to the lands. Pretty handy, and quick to use. Very repeatable. Can measure a loaded cartridge also if there is a need. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment! Have a good evening and a great weekend!!
@jhnstuhlmiller I like Whidden stuff also. I have theirs for .223 and for my 6CM, but I like the MIC a little more for my 6CM. I have another tool attached to my calipers that I leave on as much as possible. Saves me swapping attachments a little bit. And easy to see the numbers on the MIC and know where to adjust if needed. But, I do like Whidden products. I tried their click adjust lock ring, but I assume I installed it wrong. I could not get that to work, but I will try again some day. Good, well-made products from them!
@hesa3656 Thank you! I tried to boost the audio a little more. Had some weird things I had to fix in editing. Somehow recorded everything mirrored, so I had to flip it all so it didn't look weird to me 😂 Hopefully fix that soon! And focus was acting strange at times, so I was worried it would lose focus, but it seemed okay to me. Thanks for stopping by and letting me know!! Have a great weekend, sir!!!
@johngunn4573 Hello, John. The target is from Allen. It is their EZ Aim Load Development Target. Maybe item # 15616. They come in a pack of 25. Really handy! Got mine on an Amazon order at some time earlier this year. Let me know if that was not the info you were asking about. Have a great evening and an awesome weekend!!
So as far as the shoulder bump is concerned. Apparently the guys who are super deep into long range. When they have their rifles built the same reamer used to cut the chamber in the barrel is the same tool they use to make a the resizing die. I have also seen companies that offer the service to cut a resizing die to match the chamber of your rifle. What I have noticed in my own quest in what most would consider extreme accuracy. Is me as a shooter it something that you or I have to get good at . You or me can only go so far with the mechanical portion of accuracy. Then there are things that can even be explained. Such as the out of place flyer that makes no sense at all whatsoever. But this is just my 2 cents and I am interested in what others have to say about your video. Because I am interested in and have had those same thoughts and questions.
@Johnny-jr2lq so, I am still kinda new and always trying to figure out all the ins and outs of this. I figure if I throw out the questions I have while I think of them, someone with more experience can answer. Or let me know what I should test to find the answer. I needed to get all of these 200 new cases ran thru their initial firing, so I thought it would be a good time to try a few things and see what made actual changes that needed to be worried about. Biggest thing I discovered here is that there is actually a fairly wide range that good results can be had with. Always assumed there was a specific charge that worked best. From these tests, I can load anything from high 38s to low 40s and be good for my PRS matches. I think I am going with 39.9 for my after sizing tests. Better speed and consistent numbers so far. I do think some of this will change after sizing, so maybe small tweak after, but I will see after this weekend's work and tests!! I have thought about those custom dies like Whidden offers. Send them a print of your chamber and they will cut a die for your rifle. Might look at that down the road. Going to see what adding the mandrel step gets me. Plus, I will get the Area419 7/8ths die when it releases. I like the feature set listed, plus a mandrel decap pin is cool. And their stuff is always top notch, so might be the way to go for the sizing step! Stay tuned and we will find out together! If you have anything specific you want me to try and test, let me know. If I am able, I will be happy to try and get a test filmed and answer found! I like sharing what I learn. Thanks for stopping by for this one. Glad I am not the only person who overthinks some of this stuff 😂 Have a great weekend, Johnny. See ya on the next one!!
Thanks for stopping by. Let me know how the audio/visuals are please. Trying to get my camera set up again after getting it replaced. I don't remember my previous settings!
Here I tried to test some more powder charges and I'm still getting pretty decent groups! I think I am just lucky with a good range of charges on this brass, at least while new. I am getting my prep work done now, annealing tonight, and then I'll size and charge these again. See if things hold true, or have some slight changes I need to account for. I am thinking I am done wasting time testing different charges, but please let me know what you think! I hope I'm on the right path, but I would appreciate any tips or advice with what I am seeing here!
Thank you for hanging out for a few! See you on the next one!!
Hiya Chad. I wish I had answers to your questions, but as you know, I’m no rifleman. Good show here, none the less. I enjoy keeping up with your progress. 🤛🏻🔫🇺🇸
@viejo2a hey, thanks for stopping by. I know 1 of my viewers will give me some good thoughts. I am convinced now that I have done all I can. Annealing first 100 tonight, then start sizing and run it all again. I think getting the mandrel die added should help a good bit with my numbers.
I am just shocked that pretty much an entire grain from 38.9 to 40.1 is giving me good looking groups (aside from my own input errors) that will be plenty adequate for my PRS needs. I think I have mentally picked my starting test load after the sizing.
If those first several do well, then I may just stop powder tests and tweak the tuner and call it good for this brass!
Thanks for stopping by, Walter. Always appreciate seeing you.
Have a great weekend and see you on a live soon!
Mornin Feller! Soot is gonna happen as result of combustion. That what I see is nit troublesome or excessive. That vertical string is likely completely your body ergos. Its a tell tail scope shifting sign but Im sure your solid. Other folks Id say check your action screws torque. But Im pretty sure your fine. (Dont hurt ta check)
See ya later tonight!
@cw2a Good ideas. I should check my torque again. Never hurts to make sure.
I had 1 group all in a horizontal line and one in a vertical line. Still decent sized, so I'm thinking mostly my position. Wiping sweat from my face and eyes every 2 shots probably has more to do with that result. Could be a weird effect of the powder changes, but I think low likelihood of that. Pretty confident it's a me issue, lol.
I figured the neck soot was normal, but wanted to make sure! Nothing past the shoulder area, so should be sealing well!
See ya this evening, CW!! Have a great weekend and talk to ya soon!
Looks good 👍
@BoomstickMark5 thank ya, Boomstick! I hoped for some obvious good or bad loads, but they all turned out pretty good, lol.
On to the next steps and see how dialed in I can get this before season starts!!
Have a great weekend, sir!
Carbon on the shoulder and neck is normal as long as it's not going past the shoulder. My brass doesn't grow because I run a tight head space brass not growing is a good thing. Also remember seating depth is for better groups. Don't be afraid to jump 80 thousands or more
I use the cortina mandrel die it's awesome just make sure you still have lube on the case because it's tight at the case head
@kyley808 Excellent! I figured it was fine since not going past the neck. Good to have another confirmation of that.
So, no need to keep trying powder changes, stick with one and maybe try some different depths!
Added to my list!!
Thank you for swinging by again this week!
Have a great weekend, Kyle!!
@kyley808 Yes, I was watching his video on it again. It sizes the base of the case!
Will be a good time to test the Alpha case lube!!
And of course, after getting the Cortina die, I see that Area419 is about to release their 7/8ths sizing die!!! Their decap pin is spring loaded and a mandrel shaft all built into one.
I like the features listed, so I will get it when released for my case and give it a test!!
Thank you again!
@@ChadKelly7yes try going longer jumps because that will close the space in the case. Also if you wanted to save money you can get a mighty armory decapping spring loaded die it's the best and area419 copied him
@kyley808 So, try a little deeper seating. Like, 1 or 2 thousandths at a time?
I seat base to ogive, and even then there is at 2 thou variance. Usually within 1, but a few 2 sneak thru.
That would make sense. H4350 seems to like running hotter.
I am more interested in the die and the mandrel interested to see how the mandrel material compares.
I don't decap when sizing. I run thru an APP, remove primers, then anneal, clean, lube and size (now mandrel), clean again, then prime, powder, bullet.
I like having the primers out on first cleaning so it has a little better chance to clean the pocket. But, I don't worry too much about it.
Mighty Armory seems to make a lot of good stuff. I do need to get some of their products at some point.
I am hoping the Area419 die will have taken all the things people like about the best dies and try to incorporate as many features as possible into 1 die.
We will see someday. Who knows when, but I will get an email. I got the Xero email like 6 in the morning and had my order in before I really woke up in October, lol. Hopefully, same thing and I get to snag one of the first to hit the market. I don't mind spending money kn good or cool stuff.
Benefits of being single and no kids 😂
I like that 39.9 charge. H4350 is a bit odd in that its ES and SD typically shrink as you go towards hotter charges... it just likes being driven hard (which is odd because that's normally how ball powders behave, yet H4350 is extruded). One thing that pricked up my ears was when you said that the Cortina mandrel die works the base of the brass as well. That makes me wonder if it will stretch the length of the brass? If you shrink a cylinder's diameter, that material has to go somewhere, so it makes sense to me that it might stretch the length. You might want to keep an eye on that because, based on your Alpha brass necks not stretching, it seems that you have a rather tight chamber (or, as we talked about earlier, I still suspect that Alpha brass is hard as nails and it might just not stretch like normal brass). Speaking of that... the lack of brass stretch (possibly due to higher than normal hardness) could be why you see soot on the necks. I'm so used to gas guns that when I saw your sooty brass, I was thinking, "Man, that's really good." LOL! My brass all comes out neck to head looking like it just spent 16 hours in a coal mine. 🤣
@DocJustinT Yes, that is the charge that I have settled on for after sizing testing. Assuming it doesn't fall apart, I will just use the tuner and run with it from there. I don't think I can glean much more. I am surprised that the whole range of 39 seems pretty good! I figured some would be obviously bad or amazing, but overall fairly consistent.
What I am concerned with is after sizing, what does it do. I will find out this weekend hopefully!
So, I think (and just a guess/assumption) that Eric made this die like he did because he is against neck size only dies. He believes in full length sizing every time. I figure he made his die like this so if someone who only neck sizes uses it, they will be forced to size the body as well 🤣 In my thinking, possibly wrong, but if you full length size first, then running the mandrel should do minimal, if any, actual sizing. Most should happen when F/L sizing.
But yes, I will watch that. I have my comparator thing I showed here in before and after firing with no growth in the shoulder. So, I will be inspecting a lot as I set it all up!!
I keep thinking I will damage one of these Alphas and then I can mail you one to test. Not happened yet, but I agree is is likely harder composition than most others. Maybe how people get 60 to 80 firings out of them!! I figure this brass should last me at least 2 barrels, lol.
I got a few people agree that my little soot is no worries. Not going past the neck, so all good! I don't recall this on my Lapua, but again, this is likely harder!
Good info! I will keep testing. Lots to do this weekend!!
Talk to ya later, have a great weekend, Justin!!!
@ChadKelly7 , hey Chad, I hope all's well for you. I just learned something from Bryan Litz regarding "barrel burner" cartridges (something I never really paid attention to because I don't have any hot rod calibers): he said that from brand new, rifles speed up and often settle down to a fairly constant speed, which I knew, but what I learned is that it is due to the chamber fire cracking instead of "smoothing out" of minor imperfections in the barrel. What he said is that it is more pronounced in high performance rounds, and he even called out the 6 CM specifically, because the fire cracking adds friction, which adds pressure, and added pressure means the powder burns hotter, which makes more velocity. So, that got me to thinking that after you did your deep cleaning, you would have removed a bit of the fire cracking, and because of that your friction and pressures dropped, which likely dropped the velocities (Bryan said this is a common occurrence). So... maybe you don't need to chase your load's charge back up to your previous speed after all because it's just due to being really clean now? Just food for thought.
@DocJustinT That is actually interesting. And tracks with the data I just got over the weekend.
After sizing and mandrel 20 cases (10 from each box/lot) and shooting, my speeds were about 15 to 20 faster with same powder. I have not cleaned super heavy since that last big one, but around 200 rounds now I think.
I was thinking I would drop a tenth, just to try and stay under 3,000. My speed went from 2980-2985 to 3000-3005. Had good numbers, in my opinion. First 10 had 4.1 SD I think 😂.
So, I wonder if that means I should not really waste time cleaning. Just run it till needs replacing around 2,000? Or stick with cleaning after every few matches, like 400-500 rounds.
Something new to think about and factor into my decisions!
My big mental conundrum I am thinking on now is how important shoulder bump actually is. I think I got too much lube on a few cases and shoulders pushed .002 to .003. But, I loaded and shot them in the group with the 0 bumps and .001. Grouped good enough and chrono numbers did not correlate to the difference in shoulder bump. So, I don't know if worth chasing my die depth, or just lighten up on the lube and not worry about it. All the numbers and target says nothing to stress over. But, I see different things and I assume I am doing things wrong 🤣 Downside of OCD like I have!!
This is some great info for me to think about. Not sure how I could test other than run it with no cleaning and see what happens. I think I will still clean every so often. I will probably order a barrel in the next week or two so I am ready when time comes.
@ChadKelly7 , I'm a big fan of frequent cleanings, so my advice is either clean regularly or don't... just maintain consistency. However, I find it easier to keep a barrel consistently clean than variably dirty. As for the shoulder bump, I think that if you're only a couple thousandths too much is better than not enough, but this minor difference would only really impact how easily (or difficult) your rounds chamber in your rifle. Just today I got a mandrel die with like 6 or 7 mandrel inserts for my various calibers as well as a case neck trimmer (with corresponding neck pilots) and the thing that boggles my mind is that the mandrels are sized to set neck tension so they are slightly under-sized (like my .338 mandrel is actually .334" and .308 is .304"), but the pilots of the neck trimmer are "bullet diameter" so it takes a lot of pressure to get them into the trimmer. It makes no sense! I might have to polish down the trimmer pilots because it seems silly to have to mandrel the necks up to bullet diameter just to neck turn them and then have to go back and resize them down again and mandrel them up to neck tension (under-sized) diameters.
@DocJustinT Yeah, I will be attempting a cleaning schedule this season. Time is the biggest hurdle for me to overcome.
Good to know! I was thinking shoulder bump should only affect ease if chambering. I saw no measurable chnsge in speeds or group size, so not important on target in my testing.
That is odd. Supposed to trim after sizing, so it should not need to be sized again! Mine has a tapered pilot on the cutting head I think. I have the Henderson that does trim, chamfer and demur in 1 step.
Now I want to check my new cutting head to make sure it will work lol
It's a .243 head, but mandrel is .241. This could be tricky!
Lucky for me, my brass doesn't seem to grow so maybe I won't have to trim for a long time 🤣😂
I would say to test a few before polishing down. They may be marked for each size, but actually made 2 to 3 thou under so they function properly.
Good luck with the new tool!! A good trimmer is a lifesaver!
Hello my fellow Okie! I was in Iowa thev other day and it got down in the 50s overnight. The heat will kill me when I get back to Temple.
@Charles_ONeal hello, Charles!
Man, that sounds downright freezing!!!
The last 2 weeks been the worse of the summer. Over 105 by 10 in the morning a few days. Tomorrow is not just heat advisory, but extreme heat advisory!!
I bet you are just super happy to get back home to this 😂
At least we are on the home stretch now. Few more weeks and we should have another of our nice 3 or 4 days before it gets too cold 🤣
Safe travels home and enjoy your trip!
Have a great weekend, sir!!
A couple of things. Pick a load and stick with it. Your 6 Creedmoor has a barrel life of 1000-1500 rounds before they can become a practice barrel. You are using a good portion just testing. Take one you like and use the tuner.
IMO Tthe flat spots on your necks are from ejecting the case. The ejector is forcing it up against the side of the action as you extract the round.
The soot could be multiple things and nothing to worry about IMO. Now if it was not contained to the neck and on the case body that would be a problem. You could try more neck tension to see if you can get the combustion process further along before the bullet is released from the neck.
Your last group with the vertical stringing is likely you. My guess is the support bag was compressing under recoil.
Call me some night and we can discuss anything else you have questions about.
@mln19631 Yeah, I figured I wanted to get all these cases fired new and then settle them after sizing. Adding the mandrel step to the process with these as well. Just annealed the first 100 last night. Next batch tonight. Still have 10 not loaded at all, and a few leftover from the last match to fire. Likely use to warm up from now on and work thru them.
I just remember that things changed a little after sizing with the Lapua brass, so I want to keep this Alpha all on the same level.
After seeing that most charges I picked are plenty decent group size, mostly depending on if I could see target well or not so that's on me not the loading, I am going to pick 1 and tune from there.
I think I like the 39.9 load. Little better speed. But, will see after size and mandrel!
The neck dents were the unfired necks! I thought that was giving the 1 or 2 out of range speeds in each 10 lot, but didn't really match up with chrono numbers. They seemed to all smooth out after fired tho. So, not as much of a concern as I thought. Not sure why I would have 1 or 2 out of each group of 10 that would be 20 to 30 fps out of the majority that were within 10 to 15. Strange. Probably not something I will totally eliminate for a while. But, it bothers me so I want to beat it!! Danged numbers always gotta match!! OCD is gonna get me in a deep rabbit hole with this 😂🤣
Seemed the body was always clean, so just a little soot at the neck. Less as powder went up.
Staying just under 3,000 seems to be the sweet spot for me. Over and the numbers spread out a lot more.
I am curious to see how they behave after sizing. Plan to load 10 first, test them, then if they seem as good or better than these fire forming tests, I will just turn the tuner a bit and call it good.
I think any of these charges will give me plenty good enough performance for what we are doing! I was hitting the smallest KYL targets at the last match while fire forming, so I should be solid! And now I will have up to 200 I can make all the same!! Trying to get ready to go try Ninnekah! Get my butt whooped by the big boys 😂
As we get closer to match time, I am sure I will come up with lots of questions. So hot the last weeks I get out just as sun goes down. Still over 100, but not as bad with sun not bearing down. But, I have to shine a flashlight kn the target to see it, lol. Not the best for shooting good groups probably, but I think I got the data I was wanting out of this.
Good to hear from you, Mark!!! Talk to ya soon. Better get your practice in! I am coming for you from the 1st match this season!! 🤣
@@ChadKelly7 I didn’t realize the dented necks were from virgin brass. I always run a mandrel through new brass for just such occasions. 99% of the time there isn’t a need, but occasionally it corrects a small ding. Now that you have a mandrel coming you have that capability too.
I’m glad to see you finally started protecting your aim point by not shooting at it! It’s the key to consistency my friend.
Be careful testing in these hot conditions, it’s an easy way to roast a barrel. Especially on a hot rod like a 6 Creedmoor when it’s over 100° out. They do not cool down in these temperatures.
I will be in Nashville for the first match. It just so happens it’s the wife’s 50th birthday that weekend (15th). We already had plans to celebrate it with her cousins in TN. You’ll get your chance to whoop on me in October.
@mln19631 Yeah, I thought it was an issue. But, no. I marked them and when I had an outside the norm speed checked that piece, but it didn't match up with those cases. More than likely just the natural inconsistency in the new pieces. I started with no mandrel, so figured I would keep the same thru these first firings. Plan is to load 10 from each box/lot number and see how close they are after sizing etc., then if not major difference just have a bulk pile of 200 cases. Not worry about keeping each lot number separate in my process. Hopefully that is how it works out at least!
I pretty much had to waif for sundown. I would start about 8:30 and shine a flashlight on the target. Still hot, but not terrible. My little barrel cooler got a workout!! I was watching the temp strip and waited for it to cool down between groups.
Have they said which day the first will be? At the last one, there was talk of the 3rd Sunday instead of 2nd Sunday. Not heard if that got decided or not yet.
Either way, hope you two have a fun trip to Nashville! That should be pretty cool.
@@ChadKelly7 Yes, the third Sunday of the month for centerfire guns. Dusty changed it because he hosts NRL22 matches too. The 22 matches will be the first Sunday and big guns on the third Sunday. So you know what that means, time to come out and play on 22 days!
@mln19631 I can give my TX22 pistol a try! I can hit at 100 yards with it. Might be fun. I would be super fast changing positions 😂😂
I do need to get a good 22.
Almost jumped on the Area419 build a few weeks ago. Complete rifle, semi custom build. Was like 2800 or so.
Talked myself out of it. Would still need optic and didn't think I should start another project while still trying to get the hang of this one!!
Trying to be slightly smarter in my older age!
I think I may just go ahead and order a barrel in the next few weeks. Get it before election for sure, just in case.
Got like 14 or 15 pounds of powder, 1300 or so projectiles, and like 14k primers. Should be good for another barrel without buying much more than projectiles!
Figure it would be smart to go ahead and get one soon. I worry about changing it. Have the tool, but I will cross that bridge when the time comes.
Dang it, I do wanna try a 22 though! Having it on Sunday instead Saturday makes it very tempting.
Just add my opinion and trust me I'm no professional. Take a head space comparator and measure the alpha brass and resize a piece of the alpha with current setting on your die and measure how much it bumped just to make sure. Switching from Lapua to Alpha brass I'm sure there will be some minor difference. And to me if you're having the same accuracy with less powder and close to the same ES SD use the lighter load save on some powder and maybe extend the barrel life a few hundred rounds too who knows. But as I said I'm no professional so take what I say with a grain of salt.
@jesusisking4652 Yeah, that is kinda my plan. I have 10 cases still not fired, so I have a reference point. But, with my MIC shoulder measurement tool, it's easy to get the comparative sizes.
Hoping it doesn't change, that would be nice to keep the die set the same for both!! That would open up the chance to load up for several matches at once on a rainy weekend! I have a backup plan if that it not the case, but waiting for the new Area419 die to release. I may just set that to the Alpha and my current to the Lapua. Then just quick change dies if I keep using both brands.
There is a difference in the necks, so my bushing will need to be changed. That is easy enough though.
In my mind, it makes sense that the die should be set more to my chamber than the brass. Since I am trying to resize the brass for my chamber.
I will find out this weekend, either way!
Annealing last night and tonight. Then clean and get ready to size. Trying to keep the 2 boxes separate for now. Just in case there is a difference from lot to lot. But, every piece I have measured between the 1 boxes are as near identical as imaginable, so I think it will all be the same across all 200 pieces.
Still a lot to do to get ready for match season in a few weeks, but I think I am closer now to having this part of the work finished!!
Thanks for coming by again, I appreciate seeing you here!
Have yourself a wonderful weekend!!!
looks and sounds good. the shoulder may not adjust to 2nd or 3rd firing. what is that shoulder comparator are you using?
@jhnstuhlmiller So far things have been going well with it. I have a wide range of powder to choose from looks like!
I will keep an eye on them each firing and see when it starts moving on me. Maybe a harder formulation on their brass. I anneal every time, so I think these should last me a while. Maybe several barrels worth 😂
The little black comparator is the RCBS Mic tool. They are cartridge specific. Good for me, I don't have a lot of caliber variations. Also comes with a tool for measuring to the lands.
Pretty handy, and quick to use. Very repeatable. Can measure a loaded cartridge also if there is a need.
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment! Have a good evening and a great weekend!!
@@ChadKelly7 whidden makes something similar
@jhnstuhlmiller I like Whidden stuff also. I have theirs for .223 and for my 6CM, but I like the MIC a little more for my 6CM. I have another tool attached to my calipers that I leave on as much as possible. Saves me swapping attachments a little bit. And easy to see the numbers on the MIC and know where to adjust if needed.
But, I do like Whidden products. I tried their click adjust lock ring, but I assume I installed it wrong. I could not get that to work, but I will try again some day. Good, well-made products from them!
I think tha A/V was good! 👍🇺🇲
@hesa3656 Thank you! I tried to boost the audio a little more. Had some weird things I had to fix in editing. Somehow recorded everything mirrored, so I had to flip it all so it didn't look weird to me 😂
Hopefully fix that soon!
And focus was acting strange at times, so I was worried it would lose focus, but it seemed okay to me.
Thanks for stopping by and letting me know!!
Have a great weekend, sir!!!
I need info on those targets. Hard to read on my phone.
@johngunn4573 Hello, John.
The target is from Allen. It is their EZ Aim Load Development Target. Maybe item # 15616. They come in a pack of 25. Really handy!
Got mine on an Amazon order at some time earlier this year.
Let me know if that was not the info you were asking about.
Have a great evening and an awesome weekend!!
So as far as the shoulder bump is concerned. Apparently the guys who are super deep into long range. When they have their rifles built the same reamer used to cut the chamber in the barrel is the same tool they use to make a the resizing die. I have also seen companies that offer the service to cut a resizing die to match the chamber of your rifle. What I have noticed in my own quest in what most would consider extreme accuracy. Is me as a shooter it something that you or I have to get good at . You or me can only go so far with the mechanical portion of accuracy. Then there are things that can even be explained. Such as the out of place flyer that makes no sense at all whatsoever. But this is just my 2 cents and I am interested in what others have to say about your video. Because I am interested in and have had those same thoughts and questions.
@Johnny-jr2lq so, I am still kinda new and always trying to figure out all the ins and outs of this. I figure if I throw out the questions I have while I think of them, someone with more experience can answer. Or let me know what I should test to find the answer.
I needed to get all of these 200 new cases ran thru their initial firing, so I thought it would be a good time to try a few things and see what made actual changes that needed to be worried about.
Biggest thing I discovered here is that there is actually a fairly wide range that good results can be had with. Always assumed there was a specific charge that worked best. From these tests, I can load anything from high 38s to low 40s and be good for my PRS matches. I think I am going with 39.9 for my after sizing tests. Better speed and consistent numbers so far.
I do think some of this will change after sizing, so maybe small tweak after, but I will see after this weekend's work and tests!!
I have thought about those custom dies like Whidden offers. Send them a print of your chamber and they will cut a die for your rifle. Might look at that down the road. Going to see what adding the mandrel step gets me.
Plus, I will get the Area419 7/8ths die when it releases. I like the feature set listed, plus a mandrel decap pin is cool. And their stuff is always top notch, so might be the way to go for the sizing step!
Stay tuned and we will find out together!
If you have anything specific you want me to try and test, let me know. If I am able, I will be happy to try and get a test filmed and answer found! I like sharing what I learn.
Thanks for stopping by for this one. Glad I am not the only person who overthinks some of this stuff 😂
Have a great weekend, Johnny. See ya on the next one!!
Howdy neighbor
@@dalepogue5799 Hello, neighbor Dale! Got another neighbor here, Charles.
Okies represent!! 😂
Have a great weekend, man!!
@@ChadKelly7Okies!!!!
@@mln19631 We got a few here!!