One of the best explanations of shock absorber function and setting. ❤ On morotcycles, we either have no settings, just spring preload, or rebound a possible compression ("bump") on high-end shocks. Wow, it's awesome what can be set and played with in simulators. 🎉
That was the best review of dampers ever. Enough detail to understand them without loosing brevity and focus. Very straightforward and understandable. This setup series is really fantastic. Wish I’d found it sooner. Thank you Chris.
Dampers is one thing I have not adjusted yet because I was not sure of the affects on the car but this definitely helped me understand more clearly. Top notch video Brother.
Hey Tim - thanks as always. Yeah dampers are intimidating, but actually, in practice not that difficult to work with. The hardest part is looking at the car and seeing how it reacts - replay cameras are very convenient for this though.
@Chris Haye Hou have managed to explain in 5 minutes what has taken me hours and hours of video watching and reading to get my head around! Outstanding video and explanation 🙌😊
No thank you for making these videos need to brush on setups and know all aspects of the car ,for now i know some parts of the setup but to counter at any given time not that good yet in setup making so thank you again really helps as am writing it down Cheers !!:)
Great video, great series of video's. I have always left dampers alone as I've not understood what adjusting them did. You make it look so obvious now, I need to get my rig built and put this now found knowledge to the test.... who knows I might even enjoy PC2 ! Many thanks for this series....... Shhhh nobody tell GM :D
Hmmm. The higher a damper setting, the slower the car settles methinks, depending on what you mean by settles of course.. Yes, the initial transfer of weight will be quicker due to less compliance, but the total transition will take longer. For example, with max bump and maximum braking it would take longer for the spring to reach max compression for the effort than if the bump were at a lower setting.
Yeah, good catch, I was being a bit imprecise with my language - I was trying to suggest that higher damper settings would lead to fewer oscillation cycles of the spring. But, you're absolutely right, the amount of time it takes to complete a compression / rebound cycle would be longer. I'll pin your post to the top just in case it confuses anyone. Thanks dude!
+Chuck Chequers Nah, Chris is right as long as the car is not critically damped. Stiffer damping will complete the transfer quicker. Thou many modern racecars are above-critically damped in slow movements so technically it will take more time to reach new position for the suspension, but 99% of the weight will be transferred even faster. At which point we could have a debate over weather position (technically correct) or majority of weight (what we actually feel when driving) is correct to be used for definition of "settling". So for the scope of this videos i'd say it's fine IMHO. Or to put is simply, with overdamped bump during braking suspension position does not mean a thing, as we feel settled in the braking before front comes down anyways.
Great video once again Chris... even though I’m a hardened car set up fan. I’m still very interested to hear your interpretation of how each area effects the cars handling 👍🏼
This series has been incredibly helpful. Say, at about 3:36 you are showing some cars from what looks like the 80s? Is that a set? And what track is that?
Outstanding Video !!! I have for the longest time not known what to do with these ,as I didn't understand what they actually do. Untill now :>) Thank you Chris !
How are these videos getting so few views? Chris, my company channel (not my private account) has the same subscription number as you exactly so I feel your pain - This deserves so much more attention! Great work putting this together!
Great video mate! I’m on duty rally 2.0 Xbox. The kart I’m using is having a problem, dirt road plus corner = spin 180 out. Rear wheel drive, so I expect springs and or damping.
Reaily great series of videos, which I feel will quickly become "must watch" for new simracers. But one thing I think is missing in this video, is which slow bumps/rebounds are in play during acceleration / braking. When accelerating the rear is compressing and front is expanding, thus rear slow bump and front slow rebound can be changed to affect handling. The opposite is true during braking, the rear is expanding and front is compressing, thus rear slow rebound and front slow bump should be changed. This small detail has eluded me for a long time.
If I’m understanding here, you want to use spring rates to adjust the attitude of the car in terms of over or under steer, but not for finding time in the corners. You want to adjust dampers and bump stops for that
Thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge. Question. Can a soft spring be overpowered by a really hard damper or this is not how phisics works :). I mean will a hard damper not let the spring compress fully? Or the other way around, hard springs will not need the damper on compression since they are already hard to compress :). Does this make sense?
Rebound should almost always be stiffer than bump. Softer rebound can induce bouncing effect. The reason is that rebounds comes into play when the spring is extending, if it is softer it might happen that the spring will expands past its neutral point, thus bumping (compressing to the neutral point) again.
I wonder, I assume the rear works opposite to the front when breaking and accelerating. So that would mean when breaking, you engage slow bump on the front, but slow rebound on the back. And when accelerating or releasing the breaks you engage the slow rebound up front and the slow bump in the back. Given all that. Say you're driving a back heavy car like the Porsche 911, one could fight the oversteer on turn ins by letting the back come down more quickly than the front after breaking, throwing the weight on it. And one would do that by having a faster slow bump in the rear than the slow rebound up front. Is that right? If so I'm going to try that.
So ... if I brake on a straight without ABS, and I hear the wheels squeeking on and off, like they were hopping up and down while maintaining the same brake pressure I should do what exactly ? I am still confused. Lower the fast rebound rate of what ? front, rear ? Or what else ?
When you say "increase the damping" (slow bump for example), does that mean to make it compress quicker or slower? The terminology for dampers always gives me ADD. Or to be more specific, in a sim like iRacing, does increasing the value of bump (1~8) make it compress quicker, in a sense making it stiffer? or slower making it softer? And how do these changes effect the under/oversteer? Should we think about this the same way we think about spring rate? Meaning: a stiffer front setting make the care more responsive but less grippy, and softer settings doing the opposite? Don't feel the need to address all of that btw
Hey Anthony - more damping = slower compression. Dampers are more about taming weight transfer than they are a tool for altering the balance of the car. Ideally, when you're braking for example, you want the weight to transfer, and stay there until you release the pedal. Without dampers, the spring would make the car act like a seesaw.
OK lets see if I can understand this: Dampers control how fast or slow weight transfers, whilst springs control how much weight is allowed to transfer?
The higher the value the stiffer the damper is. You can think of dampers as dynamic springs, a car with stiffer damper will behave as if it had stiffer spring during the short moment of the transition. Springs do not control how much weight is transferred, that is purely down to center of mass height and horizontal forces on the car. At best what springs can do is to shuffle the weight a bit between individual wheels (the same way anti roll bars do), and they control the speed at which it happens. Stiffer spring = faster weight transfer. What might be confusing about dampers is how transition speed and weight transferred interact with each other: "A stiffer damper makes the suspension move SLOWER, thus transferring weight QUICKER". If you manage to wrap your head around that one sentence everything should become clearer.
If handling otherwise is good then back driving differential more locked would be only option. Anything else would mess up current handling, not 100% sure. Or just throttle more cautiously so you understeer to exit of corner.
In other words, incresing the Bump value means a stiffer setting and in therms of velocity these means the suspension will move slower due to the shock absorver resisting(more) the compression of the spring.
![Are you making these MISTAKES when braking [Sim Racing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fonXd097vks/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the best explanations of shock absorber function and setting. ❤
On morotcycles, we either have no settings, just spring preload, or rebound a possible compression ("bump") on high-end shocks. Wow, it's awesome what can be set and played with in simulators. 🎉
Jesus Christ... in the first two minutes alone I learned and understood more about these settings than ever before. Thank you!!!!!
That was the best review of dampers ever. Enough detail to understand them without loosing brevity and focus. Very straightforward and understandable. This setup series is really fantastic. Wish I’d found it sooner. Thank you Chris.
Dampers is one thing I have not adjusted yet because I was not sure of the affects on the car but this definitely helped me understand more clearly. Top notch video Brother.
Hey Tim - thanks as always. Yeah dampers are intimidating, but actually, in practice not that difficult to work with. The hardest part is looking at the car and seeing how it reacts - replay cameras are very convenient for this though.
THE BEST VIDEO ON TWEEKING DAMPERS FOR SOME RACING. PERIOD.
thanks for all the effort you put into this series chris, it really helps me a lot!
Hey Procra Stinator - no worries man, glad the videos are helpful.
@Chris Haye Hou have managed to explain in 5 minutes what has taken me hours and hours of video watching and reading to get my head around! Outstanding video and explanation 🙌😊
Excellent. You truly know when your learning from someone intelligent they just make it so easy to understand.
Thank you for this. I always tought that higher Rebound value cause faster extension. Learned something new :)
My head just exploded 👨🏼🔧💥
That is why simulator players is just few in comparation to for example FPS chooter players
No thank you for making these videos need to brush on setups and know all aspects of the car ,for now i know some parts of the setup but to counter at any given time not that good yet in setup making so thank you again really helps as am writing it down Cheers !!:)
Great video, great series of video's. I have always left dampers alone as I've not understood what adjusting them did. You make it look so obvious now, I need to get my rig built and put this now found knowledge to the test.... who knows I might even enjoy PC2 ! Many thanks for this series....... Shhhh nobody tell GM :D
Heh, thanks Tim - glad you found the videos helpful :)
Hmmm. The higher a damper setting, the slower the car settles methinks, depending on what you mean by settles of course.. Yes, the initial transfer of weight will be quicker due to less compliance, but the total transition will take longer. For example, with max bump and maximum braking it would take longer for the spring to reach max compression for the effort than if the bump were at a lower setting.
Yeah, good catch, I was being a bit imprecise with my language - I was trying to suggest that higher damper settings would lead to fewer oscillation cycles of the spring. But, you're absolutely right, the amount of time it takes to complete a compression / rebound cycle would be longer. I'll pin your post to the top just in case it confuses anyone. Thanks dude!
+Chuck Chequers Nah, Chris is right as long as the car is not critically damped. Stiffer damping will complete the transfer quicker.
Thou many modern racecars are above-critically damped in slow movements so technically it will take more time to reach new position for the suspension, but 99% of the weight will be transferred even faster. At which point we could have a debate over weather position (technically correct) or majority of weight (what we actually feel when driving) is correct to be used for definition of "settling". So for the scope of this videos i'd say it's fine IMHO.
Or to put is simply, with overdamped bump during braking suspension position does not mean a thing, as we feel settled in the braking before front comes down anyways.
Great video once again Chris... even though I’m a hardened car set up fan. I’m still very interested to hear your interpretation of how each area effects the cars handling 👍🏼
This series has been incredibly helpful. Say, at about 3:36 you are showing some cars from what looks like the 80s? Is that a set? And what track is that?
Outstanding Video !!! I have for the longest time not known what to do with these ,as I didn't understand what they actually do.
Untill now :>) Thank you Chris !
Thanks humblegeorge (as always), much appreciated. Hope the videos are helpful.
How are these videos getting so few views? Chris, my company channel (not my private account) has the same subscription number as you exactly so I feel your pain - This deserves so much more attention! Great work putting this together!
Your politness at the end made me subscribe XD you re doing a great job keep it up!
Still the man, Chris.
Thanks dude!
Great video mate! I’m on duty rally 2.0 Xbox. The kart I’m using is having a problem, dirt road plus corner = spin 180 out. Rear wheel drive, so I expect springs and or damping.
Reaily great series of videos, which I feel will quickly become "must watch" for new simracers. But one thing I think is missing in this video, is which slow bumps/rebounds are in play during acceleration / braking. When accelerating the rear is compressing and front is expanding, thus rear slow bump and front slow rebound can be changed to affect handling. The opposite is true during braking, the rear is expanding and front is compressing, thus rear slow rebound and front slow bump should be changed. This small detail has eluded me for a long time.
But what change should I do and in which situation?
Thank you! this video is a huge help.
If I’m understanding here, you want to use spring rates to adjust the attitude of the car in terms of over or under steer, but not for finding time in the corners. You want to adjust dampers and bump stops for that
Thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge.
Question. Can a soft spring be overpowered by a really hard damper or this is not how phisics works :).
I mean will a hard damper not let the spring compress fully?
Or the other way around, hard springs will not need the damper on compression since they are already hard to compress :). Does this make sense?
You're welcome
:D
When you say the rebound should be higher than the bump, do you mean softer as in rebounds faster or stiffer so it rebounds slower?
Rebound should almost always be stiffer than bump. Softer rebound can induce bouncing effect. The reason is that rebounds comes into play when the spring is extending, if it is softer it might happen that the spring will expands past its neutral point, thus bumping (compressing to the neutral point) again.
Fantastic video series! Quick question for you: what do you mean when you say "edgy" at 3:32? Thanks!
Fantastic
Thanks rayzie
Wait... if I spring is stiffer that surely means it snaps back FASTER and not slower
I wonder, I assume the rear works opposite to the front when breaking and accelerating. So that would mean when breaking, you engage slow bump on the front, but slow rebound on the back. And when accelerating or releasing the breaks you engage the slow rebound up front and the slow bump in the back.
Given all that. Say you're driving a back heavy car like the Porsche 911, one could fight the oversteer on turn ins by letting the back come down more quickly than the front after breaking, throwing the weight on it. And one would do that by having a faster slow bump in the rear than the slow rebound up front.
Is that right?
If so I'm going to try that.
Thanks♥️
what do i need to do for drifting ? all the way to the left or right when in the tuning menu ?
Very nice done thank you. Like
awesome thank you
Thanks dude, much appreciated. Hope the videos are helpful.
So ... if I brake on a straight without ABS, and I hear the wheels squeeking on and off, like they were hopping up and down while maintaining the same brake pressure I should do what exactly ? I am still confused. Lower the fast rebound rate of what ? front, rear ? Or what else ?
Softer fast rebound makes wheel contact faster to road between those pumps. If that doesn't help then braking more cautious only helps.
When you say "increase the damping" (slow bump for example), does that mean to make it compress quicker or slower? The terminology for dampers always gives me ADD.
Or to be more specific, in a sim like iRacing, does increasing the value of bump (1~8) make it compress quicker, in a sense making it stiffer? or slower making it softer? And how do these changes effect the under/oversteer?
Should we think about this the same way we think about spring rate? Meaning: a stiffer front setting make the care more responsive but less grippy, and softer settings doing the opposite?
Don't feel the need to address all of that btw
Hey Anthony - more damping = slower compression. Dampers are more about taming weight transfer than they are a tool for altering the balance of the car. Ideally, when you're braking for example, you want the weight to transfer, and stay there until you release the pedal. Without dampers, the spring would make the car act like a seesaw.
OK lets see if I can understand this: Dampers control how fast or slow weight transfers, whilst springs control how much weight is allowed to transfer?
The higher the value the stiffer the damper is. You can think of dampers as dynamic springs, a car with stiffer damper will behave as if it had stiffer spring during the short moment of the transition.
Springs do not control how much weight is transferred, that is purely down to center of mass height and horizontal forces on the car. At best what springs can do is to shuffle the weight a bit between individual wheels (the same way anti roll bars do), and they control the speed at which it happens.
Stiffer spring = faster weight transfer.
What might be confusing about dampers is how transition speed and weight transferred interact with each other:
"A stiffer damper makes the suspension move SLOWER, thus transferring weight QUICKER".
If you manage to wrap your head around that one sentence everything should become clearer.
makes sense actually. The slower a damper moves, the faster the weight will load up on the damper. Sort of how traffic works.
ruclips.net/video/SwZB6avlZ28/видео.html
Also found this helpful, and entertaining
I have an issue with acceleration understeer... any tips? I’m pretty happy with the handling otherwise....
If handling otherwise is good then back driving differential more locked would be only option. Anything else would mess up current handling, not 100% sure. Or just throttle more cautiously so you understeer to exit of corner.
Where can I get the 90's race cars featured in this video?
That's the Race Sim Studio GT pack, probably the best set of cars for AC, if you're into GT cars that is.
sellfy.com/p/5sVv/
@@ChrisHaye I have that pack, I was referencing the cars like the Nissan 300zx race car and those others racing with it. My bad for being vague.
Ah, my apologies dude - that Raceroom and their IMSA GTO cars (Mustang, 300zx and Audi 90). Very enjoyable cars to drive.
When you say increase do you mean increase damping as in slow rate of suspension travel???
In other words, incresing the Bump value means a stiffer setting and in therms of velocity these means the suspension will move slower due to the shock absorver resisting(more) the compression of the spring.
2:20 just setting a marker
Can i have your babies please i would really appreciate it, thank you
I mean, I wasn't planning on running some sort of Child farm, but I won't rule it out!
You never got to the point... the tuning.....lol