I would say the reason these new teams are finding success way earlier is cause the players they take from teams are usually the harder working players and players who may have the skill but haven’t had a chance to shine, and when you u combine those players onto one team you get a insanely hard working team with lots of heart and a group of guys that knows they have a chance to really make a name for themselves
I think it’s important to have 4 lines that can provide scoring but the main reason for their success, to me, is that in a hard cap league, having cap flexibility and the ability to change at will is such a valuable commodity. No bad contracts for the Kraken, no dead weight to be holding on to that so many teams who don’t qualify for the PO have.
This is such a great point. Think about the average player in the 80s and 90s... Yeah, modern equipment and all but Joe Shmo in 2023 is WAY more skilled, conditioned, & dedicated than Jack Sh** was in 1993. The league is packed with talent and it really is a great time to be a fan of any team. Except the Leafs
There was some interview with Ron Francis where he says character was a big thing he looked out for, so this all checks out. I think it makes for a really likeable team too.
Yes, it’s an excellent point & a valid one that he/she makes. However, your comment about players not being as skilled as players in the 80s & 90s simply isn’t true because it’s all relative. 25 yrs from now; they’re will be people saying in 2050, or 2075 “God the players in 2023 were so slow, weak and small they could never compete in today’s NHL.” Well, just as all things change in time (i.e music) I personally think the music sucks in 2023 (autotune ruined popular music) as compared to music from the 90s (my generation) Nervana, Pearl Jam, Alanis Morissette etc were the real deal. However, that 90s music that I still love today. The music of the 60s & 70s was better. Again when we’re talking about music & sports in particular; It’s all relative. Scott Wilson (who does cross the line occasionally) could play in any era! Who else… Austin Mathews, and Conner McDavid all could play in any era. (Generation) Just like I believe Mike Bossy would score 50-60 goals every season today as he did in the 80s. The same goes for Gretzky and Mark Messier, they all could absolutely play in today's NHL in my humble opinion.
I wonder if he might have meant the franchise that was originally in Winnipeg, because that would make slightly more sense lol. Either way I alsto noticed that haha.
Technically he didn’t make any mistake. Atlanta didn’t make it to conference final, then after when he specify Winnipeg, he said none of the Jets team made it to the cup final.
" The Kings won their first cup in 2012, the 2014 was their second :) " .... stupid Hockey guy ... but seriously, Shannon shows so much disrespect to our LA Kings, just because they smacked the ever loving snot out of his Canucks in 2012 ... LOL
I had pretty much stopped watching and caring about hockey in 2017, partly due to being an Edmonton and Detroit fan. I got so excited when Vegas released their name, jerseys, and roster. I had no idea who any of the players were aside from Fleury, Tatar, and Perron but after watching the pre-season games, I was hooked. You could just see how hard they were working to prove themselves and how excited they were to be there and they all had career years because of it. Now it's the same with Seattle. Even with their rough first year I'm still a fan of seeing these lesser known players get big opportunities.
It’s important for teams to be successful out of the gate. The Islanders would not have survived the last 30 years without the dynasty. The dynasty developed the fan base and goodwill that it was able to survive Milbury, the Spano debacle, fish sticks, the Lighthouse fiasco, etc. Vegas and Seattle will have their own Milbury one day, and they will need that goodwill from fans to get them through it😊
@@ShantyIrishman As someone living in the NYC/NJ area at the time, the pending move to Nashville overshadowed their eventual championship run. Even on the then only full time NYC area Sportsradio station WFAN led by Francesa and Russo aka "Mike and the Mad Dog" any time a Devils player or Coach/Team Executive was on a show during that playoff almost every other question was on the pending move to Nashville. Bright spot is that the titles in '95, 2000 and '03 led them to getting a NHL centric rink in Newark, NJ.
@@americangiant1003 As a NY Isles fan, I agree with you & the original comment. It was great to see the New Jersey Devils smack the Rags back down to reality! Having a Vezina-winning Goalie can hide a lot of defensive shortcomings. However, you can’t expect Shesterkin to put the team on his back the entire season & all playoffs! Unfortunately, Ullmark had the season he did because he deserves the Vezina Trophy (Because I would like to have seen Ilya win it) but it’s also nice to see Ilya Sorokin getting some recognition for his abilities but more importantly, his consistent play over the last 3 seasons. I was rooting hard for the Devs! But, they’re going to be really good for a very long time & I’m looking forward to us playing each other next season. That’s if Gary Betmann decides to let division rivals play each other a minimum of 4 games a season!
You mean its important for the organization. Not for the team. Its important for the rich fkers who own those organizations. Imo, you can only be really happy if you have suffered.
Kings first won it all in 2012, Jets made the CF in 2018, and we didn't wind up hearing about the defunct teams in the end lol, but alas, this was a great video and an interesting look through time. I'm definitely in agreement that for the money they're paying, expansion teams should be able to be reasonably good. The GM still has to pick the right guys and make the right plays, and players still have to perform on the ice. In the case of Vegas, I don't think it should be forgotten / underestimated the impact that team had on the city just days after that mass attack. I don't even live in Vegas, but they really endeared themselves to their community in their first year and I think the players fed on the reciprocated energy. For Seattle, I think Francis knew he wasn't going to get as lucky as McPhee was in Vegas in year one, so he bided his time, got a solid draft class and some more trades, and now we're seeing pretty much the same thing as Vegas Year One, where you got a lot of really good, hard-working depth guys that were cast off from other teams and feel like they have something to prove. I think it's definitely good for the league, business-wise. Granted I'm a Blues fan, but I only just come away from this (and the draft lottery) feeling bad for Columbus. That organization is so damn starved for any ounce of postseason success. Would've been nice to see Bedard go there and actually turn that place around, but I digress.
It's much easier to win new fans when the expansion team is good out of the gate. I don't really see a point in starting a new team just to suck for however long
Mostly people want the teams to "pay their dues" by sucking the first few years because their team took 5 to 10 years to get to the playoffs and they aren't thrilled to see the last two expansion teams doing so well
@@stephanielane2801 Yeah, they excepted shitty management who stole their money from them by supporting the team during that crappy management. But, don't blame the new teams because they did it better.
45 years Kings fans suffered before the first Cup, as mentioned, 2012. Crazy that those playoffs were a relative cakewalk, though stunning at the time. 2014 was gut-wrenching, but in the end, unbelievable and so satisfying.
Even though they went to the ECF the year before, that 1995 cup run from NJ felt like it was out of nowhere while it was happening, especially the sweep of Detroit. Fun video.
Mike no doubt IMO, the Devils used the almost near or pending move from NJ to Nashville in '95(remember there was a work stoppage that season as well)as motivation to go on that run. Then upset the Red Wings as well.
@@americangiant1003 absolutely. That cup is definitely what kept them in NJ. Makes me wanna request a THG video on John MacLean. Was so happy he got a cup and that he was a huge part of it
@@th3l0nerang3rs ... he does ... but he still hates our team, and has said as much in the past, I'm guessing it's because they smacked the ever loving snot out of his Canucks in 2012 ... LOL
18:49 "This team could do that again". I was thinking something similar with the 2017 Preds...but I didn't want to miss my chance to see them in a Cup Final in case they didn't. Glad I spent the $$$ on going to game 4.
@13:04 Being from Cincinnati, I wish the Cincinnati Stingers had been allowed into the NHL along with Hartford, Quebec and Edmonton. Poor attendance and mediocre wins/losses prevented them from being admitted into the NHL. Their final year in the WHA ('78-'79) featured Mike Gartner and Mark Messier on their roster. I was only 3 years old at the end of their 1979 season. Didn't become a hockey fan until the spring of 1993 at the close of my sophomore year in high school.
Maybe one day the nhl will come back to cincy if the bengals reds and fc cincinnati start winning championships and they build a new arena to replace heritage bank center
I don't have any ill will against Vegas, Seattle, or even the league, but as a Blue Jackets fan, it really feels like we'd be better off folding the franchise and restarting in 3-5 years to have a better chance of actually having success. That's the part that pisses me off.
Agree! Honestly I began following CBJ when they hosted All Star Game in 2015. I loved the enthusiasm and found it startling I had known nothing of this franchise market. The lost 2004-2005 season.. partial season in 2013.. and no more ESPN coverage after the 2005 strike..I think it more or less buried the NHL ..regional coverage and not much more. While Nashville was able to get some expansion identity..no one saw hockey in Ohio..it’s just football. And yet as I discovered watching the All Star coverage..there was a wonderful fanbase in Columbus. I believe this feam is so relevant ..more fans across the NHL stream and develop attachments to teams outside their own locale. I believe! 🥅🏒⚡️✅
Teams just need to be realistic about rebuilding. Go all in on a tank and you can rebound in 5 years. It’s the legacy contracts and “fan favorite” players that hold back these mediocre teams
Detroit may have been the slowest team to get that first cup from the 26-27 expansion, but they have the most cups of any us based franchise, 11. Two behind toronto and thirteen behind montreal
As someone who has followed the Jets/Coyotes it's now 43 years and counting. Surely all those draft picks and Auston Matthews will bring some joy. 🤔😉😊 As a sidenote the new Jets have been in a semi final. They lost to Vegas in 2018.
Growing up near the old Capital Centre, my father would take my old brother and me to Caps games the first few seasons of their existence. I’m survived that to eventually watch them win the Cup and go to a parade. Worthy of note, “Guaranteed Win Night”. A Caps promotion during that time where you got tickets to an upcoming game if they lost OR tied.
I'm old enough to remember the Flyers' first cup and don't remember anyone saying, "It's too soon, they didn't suffer enough". They were complaining about other things, like Dave Schultz, Don Saleski, Bob Kelly, Moose Dupont, etc. Also, by that time they had made a division cross-over in the playoffs, and had moved Chicago into the West to make it more competitive in the finals, so the Flyers weren't just playing other expansion teams in the playoffs. They beat a very good Rangers team in the semis to get to the finals. Also, in the general context of other sports, it was just a few years after recent expansion teams had won championships in each of the other major leagues. Not only Milwaukee in the NBA, as mentioned, but Miami in the NFL in 1972 in their 7th season and the NY Mets in MLB in 1969 in their 8th season. So fans were getting used to expansion teams winning. One note about the Cleveland Browns winning in their first year. They came into the NFL in a merger with the AAFC. That league existed for four years and the Browns won all four championships, and many, if not most, observers felt, coming into the league, they were already the best team in professional football, and better than the NFL's defending champion, the Philadelphia Eagles. To prove matters, the NFL scheduled the first game of the 1950 season to be a match between the two rival champs and the Browns beat the Eagles 35-10, settling that question. Then they made the NFL Championship game their first six seasons in the league, winning 3 of them.
Lived in STL my entire life and named after Brett Hull. Can confirm, never thought id live long enough to see a cup come here. So relieved that we got there. Got to see the banner raised in person. Was amazing.
Very nice job I like the completeness and the professionalism. If there was a little bit of quirky Ness and colorful commentary or humor you'd be getting offers from National broadcasters
The NHL & WHA had merger talks in 1977; the proposal that almost went through would have also had the Houston Aeros and Indianapolis Racers join in addition to the 4 that did come over.
Those fans saying that fans of these teams need suffer for a certain amount of time are doing so purely out of jealousy. In reality, there's no "fair amount" of time a fan should suffer. It's just something people say when they think it's not fair which it never is. Life ain't fair either you just have to deal with it.
BS!!! It would be nice if they're competitive and perform well but put the work in and build up to a playoff team say in at the minimum 3-4 years. This overnight cup contenders shit is ridiculous. Jealousy isn't the reason and only a Seattle or Vegas fan would ever say such a thing. When the shoe is on the other foot things feel a lot different.
@@larrybrown9883 With the expansion draft you can kinda build your own team a few steps ahead of the "suck and get new talent" stage. Early playoffs is very healthy for new teams cause even though they're new, who's gonna watch them stink? Most people aren't gonna put in the time when their team sucks to learn about the players and the teams' struggles. If being upset about new teams doing well in the playoffs isn't from jealousy, what is it from? Is it because they "cheated" to get there since they got there quicker than a normal rebuild? That's not unfair, they just had a unique situation thanks to the expansion process and it's all gonna be over in a few years. If you want any consolation look at the LA Rams. They bought a bunch of talent one year and look what it got them. One super bowl and now a whole lot of misery
@@larrybrown9883 That's on other teams and franchises if they're constantly bad. Not every team is going to become good in the exact same amount of time dude. It just happens
@@larrybrown9883 Buff, Canucks, and San Jose fan here, I can safely say I have no I'll will towards either the Kraken or Knights. My team's shortcomings and past failures have nothing to do with other orgs. If my guys aren't good enough then I don't want them to win it. They need to be good enough to rightfully win it. Clearly Vegas brought in the right guys to manage their franchise and saw success. Seattle (while not quite as good yet) has also saw relative success because again, good management. The most I can do is be upset that my teams are being mismanaged.
it’s more that seattle and vegas got expansion on easy mode. they didn’t get the same rules everyone else had, then again they also paid a lot more. i get it but we definitely have a reason to be salty
Another reason is because they didn't have to compete with other teams in the expansion draft. In the in the original expansion, there were 6 teams competing against each other trying to draft somewhat mediocre players. And the original six teams were allowed to protect more players then they would be able to later on.
I think it's healthier for the new franchise and the league. If teams that come in are actually competitive.I'm sure as time passes theyll begin suffering just like the rest of us.
Even when that happens, Seattle fans are known for their loyalty. Just look at the Mariners, they had a long playoff drought but no one who was a true fan abandoned them.
@@stephanielane2801 Sure, but they just didn't show up for games. I remember watching Angels games in Seattle on T.V. where the stadium was only half full at best quite often. Revenue sharing saved the Mariners from moving.
I've said it since the beginning - with the new expansion starting with Vegas - the rules are extremely favorable to expansion teams... I mean you could be a playoff team right off the bat, because there are plenty of quality players out there - so it's not "if" you want to be a playoff team - it's more about how much you're comfortable spending as an owner... Look, there are plenty of teams willing to give you picks to move a "bad" contract - and I quote "bad" because an overpaid player can still contribute - sure they may not be worth their contract but they can still be an asset... So with all of that said I am NOT shocked at the success Vegas or Seattle has had - and it's certainly in part because of the salary cap.... I mean things are much different now than they were back in the early 90's when San Jose or Ottawa came into the league - back then you had your pick at 4th liners or fringe NHL'ers - now in the present that isn't the case - if you're a GM you can find first line guys that can contribute - you just have to pay for it and fit these guys into your budget (if you even have one).... So yea, it's more about numbers than quality... And it's crazy because most fans of the game actually thought Vegas was going to be horrible off the bat, they clearly weren't and then Seattle comes in and the same idiocy is applied.... Look, expansion teams in any salary capped league are NOT going to be terrible unless they want to - and there are plenty of reasons for that if they chose to be terrible - like building a team from scratch - but obviously both Vegas and Seattle (moreso Vegas) chose to be competitive teams - I cant blame them - but how long can they stay competitive??
But also Seattle wasn’t a good team because of the expansion draft. They were terrible year one. A couple pieces from the expansion draft have helped like Dunn, Eberle and McCann. But other key players like Grubauer, Beniers, Burakovsky, Schwartz, Bjorkstrand and Tolvanen were acquired through free agency, entry draft and waivers.
@@theaquanova5079 exactly the expansion draft gave Seattle a few pieces but it was the off season moves that made Seattle the team they are, knocking on the door of their first Western Conference Championship series in only their 2nd season in existence.
Yep, Vegas came in and exploited the salary cap, or in reality, exploited bad management decisions by other GM's. They also came into the league after the massive expansion of international talent from all over the world came into the league, offering far better talent options during the expansion draft than the historical 4th liners/fringe players you described. Good for them. Lastly, owners in all sports came to recognize that there's more money to be made when there's parity and all the teams are successful, including expansion teams. It sells more tickets, jersey's, hot dogs & beer in this era of revenue sharing. It's the times we live in. I wouldn't be surprised to see an expansion team in some sport win a championship in it's first year in the future.
I think the league is just better then it was back then, also i have always found the notion that new teams need to suffer before success kinda dumb. I have no problem w vegas or Seattle because they are new and are run well unlike half of the nhl lol
The worst were the two expansions that brought in the Islanders, Flames, Caps & Scouts. That was at the same time as the WHA, so not only were those teams getting leftovers in the expansion draft, they were getting guys who weren't good enough for the WHA. The first year Capitals were incomparably the worst team in NHL history, and maybe the worst team in the history of any sport in North America, with the exception of the first year Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFL who probably weren't good enough to beat the top NCAA teams.
Actually, there almost was a sooner NHL-WHA merger. In 1977, six teams were going to join the NHL (the Houston Aeros and Cincinnati Stingers were going to join the four that would join in 79). However, Harold Ballard (Maple Leaf owner) decided to lead a charge to block it.
It's too bad. The Stingers had nice uniforms, though the Bruins might have made them change them when if they came into the league (like they made the New England Whalers change their name). We might have also gotten to see what Robbie Ftorek could do in the NHL before he started getting injured. He was still very good when he finally got to play in the NHL with Quebec, showing he wasn't just a WHA fluke, but he was already past his best years.
Meh, no offense, Joseph, as a Blues fan since 1968, I hate that jersey. I prefer either their original 1960’s-1970’s jersey or their current one. Besides, that hideous mustard jersey jinxed us this year!!! 😖
Say what ya want about Winnipeg and the larceny that occured when they entered, (for the first time) but I think a bigger reason for Winnipeg's futility, has to do with the Smythe division! First you got the Oilers! Get by them, you have the Flames, then the Canucks and finally, the Kings! That is a Monster ladder to climb. They needed a great goalie! They had good, but rarely great. Then, they make a trade with Montreal. Don't recall the players but we did get a 3rd round pick, in the 84 draft. It landed up being #51 overall. The player Montreal went with? Patrick Roy!!! Now! Please understand, although all the info is true. I know that if Winnipeg kept that pick, it does not mean they draft the same player. Also, 50 players were picked before him, so I'm just having fun, with a game of, what if? You never know when a minor move could land up changing the franchise. Just to rub it in more. When Roy won the Cup in 86, Montreal realised we didn't need the hero of the 84 playoffs, (when they reached the final 4) so they traded goalie Steve Penny, to Winnipeg for Brian Hayward, who proceed to share 3 straight Jennings trophies, with Patrick Roy! Cheers from Montreal.
There are few teams who can say they are a truly painful team in terms of success. Buffalo, Vancouver, Washington tbh, Ottawa, Arizona, Florida, Winnipeg, Minnesota, and of course my Blue Jackets. If you were an Atlanta Flames and Thrashers fan then you count as well. Acceptable window would be about 7/8-10 years for championship. You must suffer pain first for it to be a worthy victory. Coming in and winning immediately idk just doesnt have the same payoff. You should have seen and heard the crowd in Columbus when Foligno sunk that OT goal back in 2013. I cant imagine how bonkers it will be when we make it farther than round 2.
As a Sabres fan - I wasn't bothered when St. Louis or Washington won their cups. I'm not bothered that Tampa won back to back recently with being under 30 years. But HOLY HELL. If Seattle or Vegas win the cup then I will be so distraught.
The Sabres were a good team very quickly, getting good players like Perreault, Martin & Schoenfeld in the draft their first couple of years. I remember the talk back then being that they would be the dynasty that replaced the Canadiens. Instead it turned out to be the Islanders. What the Islanders became the Sabres were supposed to be.
Everyone is saying it’s good for the new fan base to be good right out the gate, what about the existing teams fan bases who have to be put on the back burner and suffer longer? What about teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Minnesota, Anaheim, Atlanta, and Phoenix who had terrible limits on their expansion draft and now have to watch all these gifted teams do well immediately?
I think an interesting idea for expansion success is when and if the team ever crosses .500 points percentage. I'm really excited for when the Canucks get to .500 as a franchise at this point I will take Gary betteman .500
I'd hate to take 1 away from my team, mon sang, but the Montreal Canadiens only won 1 cup, berore the formation of the NHL. Confussion often arises from the fact that, the city of Montreal Won 16 Stanley Cups before the start of the NHL 1 was Les Canadiens. The other 15 were won by teams named, "The Wanderers", "The Victorias" , "Shamrocks" and "The Montreal A.A.A." I beleive The Triple A's, stood for, "Amateur Athletic Association." The Montreal A.A.A. is also known for winning the first 2 Stanley cups ever. In 1893 and 94. There is also one Cup final, that was never concluded. 1919, The Montreal Canadians, were crowned NHL champions but up until 1926, The Stanley Cup was a challenge trophy, meaning any team could challenge for it. The team that challenged the Canadiens was, "The Seattle Kraken" JJ :) It actually was Seattle but this team was called the "Metropolitans" The series was hard fought, with many players, playing sick. Suffering from flu-like symtoms. The series trudged on and was tied 2 to 2, with 1 tie. Then the illness really spread, faster and faster! Historians know where this is headed. The so called (Spanish Influenza, was killing people, all over the world. It had now become an out of control Epidemic, similar in many, many ways to what we we went through and are still suffering from, with Covid-19. The Montreal Canadiens star player, Joe Hall, was hospitalized and later died because of the flu. The season was cancelled and that Cup, was never awarded. As a Montreal fan and historian. I was excited to see the return of Seattle, to the Hockey landscape! Hopefully, one day soon, we can have a rematch, For Lord Stanleys Cup. Merci beaucoup et Cheers from Montreal P.S. There was also a team from Montreal, called "The Maroons." This team won 2 Stanley Cups, both as part of the N.H.L , in the years 1926 and 1935. In the coming years the team folded and no longer exists.
Ron Francis had the last laugh. When did the expansion draft I saw he was going for a good defensive core. I knew it might struggle, but he had the right framework. With Vegas and all the side deals I think teams did a lot of panicking. Lessons that was learned in the Seattle expansion.
Some interesting points about those 1950 Browns. They were charter members of the All-American Football Conference in 1946. That league lasted 4 seasons, and the Browns won the AAFC Title every year. Then they merged with the NFL (the NFL added Cleveland, the San Francisco 49ers, and the original Baltimore Colts, not today's team in Indianapolis.) In 1950, the Browns went 10-2 and won the NFL title game. Including their AAFC years, the Browns made the Championship game of their respective league in each of their first 10 seasons
Las Vegas Golden Knights made it to the 2018 Finals in there very 1st NHL season....I just still can't believe that happend and yet it did My Anaheim "Mighty" Ducks came in 1993/94 - went to Finals in 2003 (7-game series) after being in the league 10 years and won there first Cup in 2007 after 14 years ! Florida Panthers came same season as Anaheim, but after just 3 seasons in the league they made the 1996 Finals as to date only appearence. All else that are not Original Six, it took longer time for making it to the Finals or came from rival league the WHA in the late 70's.
Quebec was also in the Semifinals/Conference Finals in 1982 (they beat Montreal in 5 games in the first round and Boston in 7 games in the second round).
Let's also not forget that those early expansion teams joined a much smaller league so just statistically speaking it was much more likely to make a deep run. Now with 32 teams it is tough for any team to win the cup, let alone the new one with only young players and other teams "leftovers". Makes what Vegas did and Seattle is doing now even more impressive
Your takes on columbus and minnesota were accurate especially the fact that the reason columbus hasnt done well since entering the nhl was their expansion draft was really weak compared to those of vegas and seattle for recent comparisons and the salary cap era definetly helped vegas and seattle
It hurts to hear Shannon selling short the Columbus fan base. Ya know the fan base that was selling out Nationwide at the end of the season when it was last place.
21:52: I was living in Philadelphia and following the team in 1973-74. I don't think there were any significant complaints about the Flyers not deserving to get in the playoffs and then the Stanley Cup final and winning it that year. The "Expansion Team" division had been expanded to include the Original Six Chicago Black Hawks. The Flyers not only beat the Black Hawks for the division title, but they did it with a monumental record of 50-16-12, 112 points. Then they beat Original Six Teams, the New York Rangers in the semi final and the Boston Bruins with Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito in the final.
People were pissed the Flyers won twice so soon but a lot of that was the way they played the game. However, even now when you look at the big picture, the Islanders are the only other exception to the "rule" people have in the heads about expansion teams. Every other team that won a cup since those two are roughly a decade or so out. It's such a silly puritanical and archaic argument that expansion teams should start with a deficit in some way or fashion.
What helped the Islanders was that after their terrible first year, the top player in the entry draft was Denis Potvin, who is badly underrated in hockey history. He was a McDavid level player, only as a defenseman. Then their 3rd draft, the rules were changed, allowing under-age players to be drafted in the first two rounds, so that year they got Clark Gillies, and Bryan Trottier. Trottier as a second round pick. Trottier was basically Sidney Crosby before Sidney Crosby. That's how you win quick championships.
I'm sure THG knows this, but the Seals are part of Dallas from a franchise standpoint. Yes, from a "Winnipeg still claims the old Jets logo" kind of outlook, the Seals and Sharks are closer related. But the Seals became the Cleveland Barons who merged with the Minnesota North Stars who became Dallas. Yes, the Sharks would draft players from Minnesota in their dispersal and expansion draft of 91, but the Minnesota franchise itself was sold and stayed in Minnesota for the time being. Franchise rights didn't move with the Gund brothers to San Jose.
SHANNON HATES THE KINGS SO HE TOOK AWAY OUR 2012 CUP!!! Just kidding. I waited 45 years for that cup and that cup run was a thing of beauty. Came out of nowhere as a #8 seed.
y'all had Justin Williams. That alone increased your chances by some 10%. Take all other players they traded for or already there putting fire on the run, nothing but Cup comes to y'all.
Aside from Calgary winning their Stanley Cup, my favorite finals series was the Islanders' fourth Cup win. That was namely because they swept Edmonton in four games straight, and I hated Gretzky and the Oliers.
I'm happy we have competitive new teams. I just hope we can get a few other teams their first championship ever / in a long time before we deal with another dynasty or two.
Kind of shocking to me that I witnessed 11 first time Cup champs compared to only 10 from before I started watching. If Carolina doesn't win the Cup this season I am rooting for Florida to finally get theirs.
You can't compare the last 2 expansion teams with the others. They are basically paying for success. The 70 80 and 90 expansion teams needed a minimum of 5-7 years to even become competitive.
Speaking to "teams being able to come back next year and do it again," looking at the Canadiens making it all the way to the cup after being mediocre and then going right back to being mediocre
@tastethejace The Pens did tank, but they weren't the only major pro sports team to do so that year. The NBA Houston Rockets also tanked for Olajuwon, and what they did was way worse because the franchise wasn't dying like the Pens were.
I actually think it was more the Eric Lindros tank that led to the draft lotto. That year the NHL also changed the rules, because it was the same year San Jose was entering the league. Up til then the new teams got the first (or first two) picks in the draft. But the existing teams didn't want the big new star going to a brand new team, so they fixed it so the worst team (Quebec) picked first and the new team picked second. It was a hose job.
I'd say you want expansion teams to be in playoff contention almost immediately, certainly within 5 years and ideally earlier. How long to conf finals or cup finals I don't think matter anywhere near as much. The closest experience I had was being in the Carolina region when the Whalers moved there. Not exactly the same, but very similar when you have a team new to a city/region. Had they been terrible for a long time after the move the team likely wouldn't have gotten the foothold they did and most certainly would not be there now. As it is they're my alternate team because I was there at the time.
0:50-1:24 There's a miscommunication here with the title of the video. The Leafs still are not competitive, so that's about 65-100 years in total depending on the metrics used :(
You mentioned in passing how teams could protect a lot more players in the past and this is what handicapped the Lightning in the first few years. That said, three Stanley cups later, we're good.
I would say the reason these new teams are finding success way earlier is cause the players they take from teams are usually the harder working players and players who may have the skill but haven’t had a chance to shine, and when you u combine those players onto one team you get a insanely hard working team with lots of heart and a group of guys that knows they have a chance to really make a name for themselves
I agree Seattle's the prime example of rolling 4 equal lines in the first series no player averaged more than 2 goals a game.
I think it’s important to have 4 lines that can provide scoring but the main reason for their success, to me, is that in a hard cap league, having cap flexibility and the ability to change at will is such a valuable commodity. No bad contracts for the Kraken, no dead weight to be holding on to that so many teams who don’t qualify for the PO have.
This is such a great point. Think about the average player in the 80s and 90s... Yeah, modern equipment and all but Joe Shmo in 2023 is WAY more skilled, conditioned, & dedicated than Jack Sh** was in 1993. The league is packed with talent and it really is a great time to be a fan of any team.
Except the Leafs
There was some interview with Ron Francis where he says character was a big thing he looked out for, so this all checks out. I think it makes for a really likeable team too.
Yes, it’s an excellent point & a valid one that he/she makes. However, your comment about players not being as skilled as players in the 80s & 90s simply isn’t true because it’s all relative. 25 yrs from now; they’re will be people saying in 2050, or 2075 “God the players in 2023 were so slow, weak and small they could never compete in today’s NHL.” Well, just as all things change in time (i.e music) I personally think the music sucks in 2023 (autotune ruined popular music) as compared to music from the 90s (my generation) Nervana, Pearl Jam, Alanis Morissette etc were the real deal. However, that 90s music that I still love today. The music of the 60s & 70s was better. Again when we’re talking about music & sports in particular; It’s all relative. Scott Wilson (who does cross the line occasionally) could play in any era! Who else… Austin Mathews, and Conner McDavid all could play in any era. (Generation) Just like I believe Mike Bossy would score 50-60 goals every season today as he did in the 80s. The same goes for Gretzky and Mark Messier, they all could absolutely play in today's NHL in my humble opinion.
19:23 -- The Atlanta / Winnipeg franchise made it to the WCF in 2018, losing in 5 games to Vegas.
I wonder if he might have meant the franchise that was originally in Winnipeg, because that would make slightly more sense lol. Either way I alsto noticed that haha.
Technically he didn’t make any mistake. Atlanta didn’t make it to conference final, then after when he specify Winnipeg, he said none of the Jets team made it to the cup final.
@@UncleTamir666 Pretty legit then!
Atlanta Jet Flamer Coyotes?
I love these videos, so crazy that Shannon knows all this history. However! The Kings won their first cup in 2012, the 2014 was their second :)
" The Kings won their first cup in 2012, the 2014 was their second :) " .... stupid Hockey guy ... but seriously, Shannon shows so much disrespect to our LA Kings, just because they smacked the ever loving snot out of his Canucks in 2012 ... LOL
@@ashleyfaulstich9053 yeah he blocked it from his memory lol 👑
I was about to say this immediately when he said 2014 for Los Angeles.
I had pretty much stopped watching and caring about hockey in 2017, partly due to being an Edmonton and Detroit fan.
I got so excited when Vegas released their name, jerseys, and roster. I had no idea who any of the players were aside from Fleury, Tatar, and Perron but after watching the pre-season games, I was hooked. You could just see how hard they were working to prove themselves and how excited they were to be there and they all had career years because of it.
Now it's the same with Seattle. Even with their rough first year I'm still a fan of seeing these lesser known players get big opportunities.
It’s important for teams to be successful out of the gate. The Islanders would not have survived the last 30 years without the dynasty. The dynasty developed the fan base and goodwill that it was able to survive Milbury, the Spano debacle, fish sticks, the Lighthouse fiasco, etc. Vegas and Seattle will have their own Milbury one day, and they will need that goodwill from fans to get them through it😊
The 1995 cup kept the Devils from moving to Nashville.
@@ShantyIrishman As someone living in the NYC/NJ area at the time, the pending move to Nashville overshadowed their eventual championship run. Even on the then only full time NYC area Sportsradio station WFAN led by Francesa and Russo aka "Mike and the Mad Dog" any time a Devils player or Coach/Team Executive was on a show during that playoff almost every other question was on the pending move to Nashville. Bright spot is that the titles in '95, 2000 and '03 led them to getting a NHL centric rink in Newark, NJ.
success? what’s that? take getting socked in the mouth year after year decade after decade
@@americangiant1003 As a NY Isles fan, I agree with you & the original comment. It was great to see the New Jersey Devils smack the Rags back down to reality! Having a Vezina-winning Goalie can hide a lot of defensive shortcomings. However, you can’t expect Shesterkin to put the team on his back the entire season & all playoffs! Unfortunately, Ullmark had the season he did because he deserves the Vezina Trophy (Because I would like to have seen Ilya win it) but it’s also nice to see Ilya Sorokin getting some recognition for his abilities but more importantly, his consistent play over the last 3 seasons. I was rooting hard for the Devs! But, they’re going to be really good for a very long time & I’m looking forward to us playing each other next season. That’s if Gary Betmann decides to let division rivals play each other a minimum of 4 games a season!
You mean its important for the organization. Not for the team. Its important for the rich fkers who own those organizations.
Imo, you can only be really happy if you have suffered.
Kings first won it all in 2012, Jets made the CF in 2018, and we didn't wind up hearing about the defunct teams in the end lol, but alas, this was a great video and an interesting look through time.
I'm definitely in agreement that for the money they're paying, expansion teams should be able to be reasonably good. The GM still has to pick the right guys and make the right plays, and players still have to perform on the ice.
In the case of Vegas, I don't think it should be forgotten / underestimated the impact that team had on the city just days after that mass attack. I don't even live in Vegas, but they really endeared themselves to their community in their first year and I think the players fed on the reciprocated energy.
For Seattle, I think Francis knew he wasn't going to get as lucky as McPhee was in Vegas in year one, so he bided his time, got a solid draft class and some more trades, and now we're seeing pretty much the same thing as Vegas Year One, where you got a lot of really good, hard-working depth guys that were cast off from other teams and feel like they have something to prove. I think it's definitely good for the league, business-wise.
Granted I'm a Blues fan, but I only just come away from this (and the draft lottery) feeling bad for Columbus. That organization is so damn starved for any ounce of postseason success. Would've been nice to see Bedard go there and actually turn that place around, but I digress.
As a fairly new fan to the sport. I truly enjoy the historical lessons and recaps. Thank you for making the game accessible
Hate to be picky, but The Kings won their first cup in 2012, not 2014
was about to say the same thing. great video as always though
Hate to be picky ... but here you are
@@rockybalboa1847 You either get it right, or you don't. Shannon tends to a guy you likes to get it right.
Just a minor thing I noticed. Love Shannon’s videos!
Maybe because half of the team were ex flyers players
It's much easier to win new fans when the expansion team is good out of the gate. I don't really see a point in starting a new team just to suck for however long
Thissss
Mostly people want the teams to "pay their dues" by sucking the first few years because their team took 5 to 10 years to get to the playoffs and they aren't thrilled to see the last two expansion teams doing so well
@stephanielane2801 sounds like petty jealously.
"REEEEEE MY TEAM TOOK 8 YEARS SO EVERY OTHER TEAM MUST TAKE 9 CUZ MINE IS BETTER REEEEE"
@@stephanielane2801 Yeah, they excepted shitty management who stole their money from them by supporting the team during that crappy management. But, don't blame the new teams because they did it better.
Great video, but the Kings won in 2012 as well. Regardless, keep the videos coming, so informative.
45 years Kings fans suffered before the first Cup, as mentioned, 2012. Crazy that those playoffs were a relative cakewalk, though stunning at the time.
2014 was gut-wrenching, but in the end, unbelievable and so satisfying.
You really make the best content out there.
Even though they went to the ECF the year before, that 1995 cup run from NJ felt like it was out of nowhere while it was happening, especially the sweep of Detroit. Fun video.
Mike no doubt IMO, the Devils used the almost near or pending move from NJ to Nashville in '95(remember there was a work stoppage that season as well)as motivation to go on that run. Then upset the Red Wings as well.
@@americangiant1003 absolutely. That cup is definitely what kept them in NJ. Makes me wanna request a THG video on John MacLean. Was so happy he got a cup and that he was a huge part of it
The Jets did make the Conference Finals in 2018, where they lost in 5 to the Vegas Golden Knights
The thumbnail for this video reminds me of what it felt like to see the Penguins win their first cup and how much I loved Bob Errey when I was a kid.
What about Mario, Jagr, Kevin Stevens, Joey Mullen or Rick Tocchet?
Oh my, I love these deep dive videos you make. Best hockey channel in YT ❤
Didn't the LA Kings win in 2012 as well?
Yes
It's cause he hates our team! HAHAHA J/K He says all the time that Quick's 2012 was maybe the best goalie performance all-time. :)
@@th3l0nerang3rs ... he does ... but he still hates our team, and has said as much in the past, I'm guessing it's because they smacked the ever loving snot out of his Canucks in 2012 ... LOL
It is soooo much better for the sport when new teams start competitive.
18:49 "This team could do that again". I was thinking something similar with the 2017 Preds...but I didn't want to miss my chance to see them in a Cup Final in case they didn't. Glad I spent the $$$ on going to game 4.
@13:04 Being from Cincinnati, I wish the Cincinnati Stingers had been allowed into the NHL along with Hartford, Quebec and Edmonton. Poor attendance and mediocre wins/losses prevented them from being admitted into the NHL. Their final year in the WHA ('78-'79) featured Mike Gartner and Mark Messier on their roster. I was only 3 years old at the end of their 1979 season. Didn't become a hockey fan until the spring of 1993 at the close of my sophomore year in high school.
MIke Gartner is one of the fastest players of all time.
Maybe one day the nhl will come back to cincy if the bengals reds and fc cincinnati start winning championships and they build a new arena to replace heritage bank center
I love going through the history of the NHL. Great video!
I don't have any ill will against Vegas, Seattle, or even the league, but as a Blue Jackets fan, it really feels like we'd be better off folding the franchise and restarting in 3-5 years to have a better chance of actually having success. That's the part that pisses me off.
Very fair take, Columbus has suffered some unexpected monkey wrenches for sure
Agree!
Honestly I began following CBJ when they hosted All Star Game in 2015. I loved the enthusiasm and found it startling I had known nothing of this franchise market. The lost 2004-2005 season.. partial season in 2013.. and no more ESPN coverage after the 2005 strike..I think it more or less buried the NHL ..regional coverage and not much more. While Nashville was able to get some expansion identity..no one saw hockey in Ohio..it’s just football. And yet as I discovered watching the All Star coverage..there was a wonderful fanbase in Columbus. I believe this feam is so relevant ..more fans across the NHL stream and develop attachments to teams outside their own locale. I believe! 🥅🏒⚡️✅
Vegas and Seattle had much more favorable expansion rules because the NHL loves money
The NHL made the expansion draft so Vegas could succeed right from the start.
Teams just need to be realistic about rebuilding. Go all in on a tank and you can rebound in 5 years. It’s the legacy contracts and “fan favorite” players that hold back these mediocre teams
Those rectangular magnets are awesome.
Detroit may have been the slowest team to get that first cup from the 26-27 expansion, but they have the most cups of any us based franchise, 11. Two behind toronto and thirteen behind montreal
You always have such fascinating knowledge to share. Thank you!
As someone who has followed the Jets/Coyotes it's now 43 years and counting. Surely all those draft picks and Auston Matthews will bring some joy. 🤔😉😊
As a sidenote the new Jets have been in a semi final. They lost to Vegas in 2018.
Growing up near the old Capital Centre, my father would take my old brother and me to Caps games the first few seasons of their existence. I’m survived that to eventually watch them win the Cup and go to a parade.
Worthy of note, “Guaranteed Win Night”. A Caps promotion during that time where you got tickets to an upcoming game if they lost OR tied.
They must have given out a lot of free tickets, LOL.
@@RRaquello no exaggeration, when we got tickets to a Guaranteed Win Night….we were excited knowing we would be going to 2 games.
I'm old enough to remember the Flyers' first cup and don't remember anyone saying, "It's too soon, they didn't suffer enough". They were complaining about other things, like Dave Schultz, Don Saleski, Bob Kelly, Moose Dupont, etc. Also, by that time they had made a division cross-over in the playoffs, and had moved Chicago into the West to make it more competitive in the finals, so the Flyers weren't just playing other expansion teams in the playoffs. They beat a very good Rangers team in the semis to get to the finals. Also, in the general context of other sports, it was just a few years after recent expansion teams had won championships in each of the other major leagues. Not only Milwaukee in the NBA, as mentioned, but Miami in the NFL in 1972 in their 7th season and the NY Mets in MLB in 1969 in their 8th season. So fans were getting used to expansion teams winning.
One note about the Cleveland Browns winning in their first year. They came into the NFL in a merger with the AAFC. That league existed for four years and the Browns won all four championships, and many, if not most, observers felt, coming into the league, they were already the best team in professional football, and better than the NFL's defending champion, the Philadelphia Eagles. To prove matters, the NFL scheduled the first game of the 1950 season to be a match between the two rival champs and the Browns beat the Eagles 35-10, settling that question. Then they made the NFL Championship game their first six seasons in the league, winning 3 of them.
It really sucks for Winnipeg. Amazing city and fans. Nobody without a cup, besides Buffalo, deserves it most.
There's no such thing as "deserves" it.
LA Kings were Cup Champions 2012 AND 2014. You've forgotten 2012. keep up the great work!
Lived in STL my entire life and named after Brett Hull. Can confirm, never thought id live long enough to see a cup come here. So relieved that we got there. Got to see the banner raised in person. Was amazing.
Yayy, One Take Shannon....!!!!
Quite a feat Mr. Hockey Guy, not many RUclipsrs can talk for 25 minutes in one take.
Very nice job I like the completeness and the professionalism. If there was a little bit of quirky Ness and colorful commentary or humor you'd be getting offers from National broadcasters
The NHL & WHA had merger talks in 1977; the proposal that almost went through would have also had the Houston Aeros and Indianapolis Racers join in addition to the 4 that did come over.
Those fans saying that fans of these teams need suffer for a certain amount of time are doing so purely out of jealousy. In reality, there's no "fair amount" of time a fan should suffer. It's just something people say when they think it's not fair which it never is. Life ain't fair either you just have to deal with it.
BS!!! It would be nice if they're competitive and perform well but put the work in and build up to a playoff team say in at the minimum 3-4 years. This overnight cup contenders shit is ridiculous. Jealousy isn't the reason and only a Seattle or Vegas fan would ever say such a thing. When the shoe is on the other foot things feel a lot different.
@@larrybrown9883 With the expansion draft you can kinda build your own team a few steps ahead of the "suck and get new talent" stage. Early playoffs is very healthy for new teams cause even though they're new, who's gonna watch them stink? Most people aren't gonna put in the time when their team sucks to learn about the players and the teams' struggles.
If being upset about new teams doing well in the playoffs isn't from jealousy, what is it from? Is it because they "cheated" to get there since they got there quicker than a normal rebuild? That's not unfair, they just had a unique situation thanks to the expansion process and it's all gonna be over in a few years.
If you want any consolation look at the LA Rams. They bought a bunch of talent one year and look what it got them. One super bowl and now a whole lot of misery
@@larrybrown9883 That's on other teams and franchises if they're constantly bad. Not every team is going to become good in the exact same amount of time dude. It just happens
@@larrybrown9883 Buff, Canucks, and San Jose fan here, I can safely say I have no I'll will towards either the Kraken or Knights. My team's shortcomings and past failures have nothing to do with other orgs. If my guys aren't good enough then I don't want them to win it. They need to be good enough to rightfully win it. Clearly Vegas brought in the right guys to manage their franchise and saw success. Seattle (while not quite as good yet) has also saw relative success because again, good management.
The most I can do is be upset that my teams are being mismanaged.
it’s more that seattle and vegas got expansion on easy mode. they didn’t get the same rules everyone else had, then again they also paid a lot more. i get it but we definitely have a reason to be salty
looking sharp in the blues fit man!
Another reason is because they didn't have to compete with other teams in the expansion draft. In the in the original expansion, there were 6 teams competing against each other trying to draft somewhat mediocre players. And the original six teams were allowed to protect more players then they would be able to later on.
Yes, the world changes and it's a good thing. Good for those teams I say. Why start off shitty?
great review Shannon.Remember flyers 2 cups as a 12 year old in philly. Thank god for Bernie.
Excellent vid. Informative.
I think it's healthier for the new franchise and the league. If teams that come in are actually competitive.I'm sure as time passes theyll begin suffering just like the rest of us.
Even when that happens, Seattle fans are known for their loyalty. Just look at the Mariners, they had a long playoff drought but no one who was a true fan abandoned them.
@@stephanielane2801 Sure, but they just didn't show up for games. I remember watching Angels games in Seattle on T.V. where the stadium was only half full at best quite often. Revenue sharing saved the Mariners from moving.
These rectangular magnets are beautiful!
I've said it since the beginning - with the new expansion starting with Vegas - the rules are extremely favorable to expansion teams... I mean you could be a playoff team right off the bat, because there are plenty of quality players out there - so it's not "if" you want to be a playoff team - it's more about how much you're comfortable spending as an owner... Look, there are plenty of teams willing to give you picks to move a "bad" contract - and I quote "bad" because an overpaid player can still contribute - sure they may not be worth their contract but they can still be an asset...
So with all of that said I am NOT shocked at the success Vegas or Seattle has had - and it's certainly in part because of the salary cap.... I mean things are much different now than they were back in the early 90's when San Jose or Ottawa came into the league - back then you had your pick at 4th liners or fringe NHL'ers - now in the present that isn't the case - if you're a GM you can find first line guys that can contribute - you just have to pay for it and fit these guys into your budget (if you even have one).... So yea, it's more about numbers than quality... And it's crazy because most fans of the game actually thought Vegas was going to be horrible off the bat, they clearly weren't and then Seattle comes in and the same idiocy is applied.... Look, expansion teams in any salary capped league are NOT going to be terrible unless they want to - and there are plenty of reasons for that if they chose to be terrible - like building a team from scratch - but obviously both Vegas and Seattle (moreso Vegas) chose to be competitive teams - I cant blame them - but how long can they stay competitive??
But also Seattle wasn’t a good team because of the expansion draft. They were terrible year one. A couple pieces from the expansion draft have helped like Dunn, Eberle and McCann. But other key players like Grubauer, Beniers, Burakovsky, Schwartz, Bjorkstrand and Tolvanen were acquired through free agency, entry draft and waivers.
Agreed, not surprised about Vegas.
@@theaquanova5079 exactly the expansion draft gave Seattle a few pieces but it was the off season moves that made Seattle the team they are, knocking on the door of their first Western Conference Championship series in only their 2nd season in existence.
Yep, Vegas came in and exploited the salary cap, or in reality, exploited bad management decisions by other GM's. They also came into the league after the massive expansion of international talent from all over the world came into the league, offering far better talent options during the expansion draft than the historical 4th liners/fringe players you described. Good for them.
Lastly, owners in all sports came to recognize that there's more money to be made when there's parity and all the teams are successful, including expansion teams. It sells more tickets, jersey's, hot dogs & beer in this era of revenue sharing. It's the times we live in. I wouldn't be surprised to see an expansion team in some sport win a championship in it's first year in the future.
6:36 LA's first cup was 2012
I think the league is just better then it was back then, also i have always found the notion that new teams need to suffer before success kinda dumb. I have no problem w vegas or Seattle because they are new and are run well unlike half of the nhl lol
Great and accurate comment.
The worst were the two expansions that brought in the Islanders, Flames, Caps & Scouts. That was at the same time as the WHA, so not only were those teams getting leftovers in the expansion draft, they were getting guys who weren't good enough for the WHA. The first year Capitals were incomparably the worst team in NHL history, and maybe the worst team in the history of any sport in North America, with the exception of the first year Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFL who probably weren't good enough to beat the top NCAA teams.
Great content!
Actually, there almost was a sooner NHL-WHA merger. In 1977, six teams were going to join the NHL (the Houston Aeros and Cincinnati Stingers were going to join the four that would join in 79). However, Harold Ballard (Maple Leaf owner) decided to lead a charge to block it.
ruclips.net/p/PL4KmQCGTJmgz1pFiA0a16nNeAWOie9uKA I have a playlist on the WHA from a few years back.
It's too bad. The Stingers had nice uniforms, though the Bruins might have made them change them when if they came into the league (like they made the New England Whalers change their name). We might have also gotten to see what Robbie Ftorek could do in the NHL before he started getting injured. He was still very good when he finally got to play in the NHL with Quebec, showing he wasn't just a WHA fluke, but he was already past his best years.
Aye great jersey today Shannon!
Meh, no offense, Joseph, as a Blues fan since 1968, I hate that jersey. I prefer either their original 1960’s-1970’s jersey or their current one.
Besides, that hideous mustard jersey jinxed us this year!!! 😖
Say what ya want about Winnipeg and the larceny that occured when they entered, (for the first time) but I think a bigger reason for Winnipeg's futility, has to do with the Smythe division!
First you got the Oilers!
Get by them, you have the Flames, then the Canucks and finally, the Kings!
That is a Monster ladder to climb. They needed a great goalie! They had good, but rarely great.
Then, they make a trade with Montreal. Don't recall the players but we did get a 3rd round pick, in the 84 draft.
It landed up being #51 overall. The player Montreal went with?
Patrick Roy!!!
Now! Please understand, although all the info is true. I know that if Winnipeg kept that pick, it does not mean they draft the same player.
Also, 50 players were picked before him, so I'm just having fun, with a game of, what if?
You never know when a minor move could land up changing the franchise.
Just to rub it in more. When Roy won the Cup in 86, Montreal realised we didn't need the hero of the 84 playoffs, (when they reached the final 4) so they traded goalie Steve Penny, to Winnipeg for Brian Hayward, who proceed to share 3 straight Jennings trophies, with Patrick Roy!
Cheers from Montreal.
There are few teams who can say they are a truly painful team in terms of success. Buffalo, Vancouver, Washington tbh, Ottawa, Arizona, Florida, Winnipeg, Minnesota, and of course my Blue Jackets. If you were an Atlanta Flames and Thrashers fan then you count as well.
Acceptable window would be about 7/8-10 years for championship. You must suffer pain first for it to be a worthy victory. Coming in and winning immediately idk just doesnt have the same payoff. You should have seen and heard the crowd in Columbus when Foligno sunk that OT goal back in 2013. I cant imagine how bonkers it will be when we make it farther than round 2.
As a Sabres fan - I wasn't bothered when St. Louis or Washington won their cups.
I'm not bothered that Tampa won back to back recently with being under 30 years.
But HOLY HELL. If Seattle or Vegas win the cup then I will be so distraught.
The Sabres were a good team very quickly, getting good players like Perreault, Martin & Schoenfeld in the draft their first couple of years. I remember the talk back then being that they would be the dynasty that replaced the Canadiens. Instead it turned out to be the Islanders. What the Islanders became the Sabres were supposed to be.
Super vid Shannon. Love the "cursed 1970 expansion" phrase. Afraid our Sharks have now entered the Canucks/Sabres phase.
Kings first Cup was 2012
Employer: Are you proficient in Excel??
Shannon: I've got something better, whiteboards!
Love you, Shannon!! Amazing content as always!
Everyone is saying it’s good for the new fan base to be good right out the gate, what about the existing teams fan bases who have to be put on the back burner and suffer longer? What about teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Minnesota, Anaheim, Atlanta, and Phoenix who had terrible limits on their expansion draft and now have to watch all these gifted teams do well immediately?
I think an interesting idea for expansion success is when and if the team ever crosses .500 points percentage. I'm really excited for when the Canucks get to .500 as a franchise at this point I will take Gary betteman .500
Bettman was the best thing that ever happened to the NHL. He saved the league and the modern success of the NHL is a direct result of his leadership.
Completely unrelated, but that Blues hat is awesome. I want one!
I'd hate to take 1 away from my team, mon sang, but the Montreal Canadiens only won 1 cup, berore the formation of the NHL.
Confussion often arises from the fact that, the city of Montreal Won 16 Stanley Cups before the start of the NHL
1 was Les Canadiens. The other 15 were won by teams named, "The Wanderers", "The Victorias" , "Shamrocks" and "The Montreal A.A.A."
I beleive The Triple A's, stood for, "Amateur Athletic Association." The Montreal A.A.A. is also known for winning the first 2 Stanley cups ever.
In 1893 and 94.
There is also one Cup final, that was never concluded. 1919, The Montreal Canadians, were crowned NHL champions but up until 1926, The Stanley Cup was a challenge trophy, meaning any team could challenge for it.
The team that challenged the Canadiens was, "The Seattle Kraken" JJ :)
It actually was Seattle but this team was called the "Metropolitans" The series was hard fought, with many players, playing sick. Suffering from flu-like symtoms. The series trudged on and was tied 2 to 2, with 1 tie.
Then the illness really spread, faster and faster! Historians know where this is headed.
The so called (Spanish Influenza, was killing people, all over the world.
It had now become an out of control Epidemic, similar in many, many ways to what we we went through and are still suffering from, with Covid-19.
The Montreal Canadiens star player, Joe Hall, was hospitalized and later died because of the flu.
The season was cancelled and that Cup, was never awarded.
As a Montreal fan and historian. I was excited to see the return of Seattle, to the Hockey landscape!
Hopefully, one day soon, we can have a rematch,
For Lord Stanleys Cup.
Merci beaucoup et Cheers from Montreal
P.S. There was also a team from Montreal, called "The Maroons." This team won 2 Stanley Cups, both as part of the N.H.L , in the years 1926 and 1935. In the coming years the team folded and no longer exists.
D-Backs '01 FTW!
Ron Francis had the last laugh. When did the expansion draft I saw he was going for a good defensive core. I knew it might struggle, but he had the right framework. With Vegas and all the side deals I think teams did a lot of panicking. Lessons that was learned in the Seattle expansion.
Yep. Vegas exploited other NHL teams. Good for them I say.
If the NHL allowed WHA expansion earlier and there was still a team in BIRMINGHAM that would just be madness.
Or Houston and Cincinnati. There could have been a Buckeye State rivalry with the Cleveland Barons and who knows how long that would have ;;asted.
Kings first cup was 2012, unless I'm missing something else that you said.
I know. It's a lot of numbers. I wrote it all out by hand. Any numbers that are off a bit don't change the video in its topic or conclusions.
Some interesting points about those 1950 Browns.
They were charter members of the All-American Football Conference in 1946. That league lasted 4 seasons, and the Browns won the AAFC Title every year. Then they merged with the NFL (the NFL added Cleveland, the San Francisco 49ers, and the original Baltimore Colts, not today's team in Indianapolis.) In 1950, the Browns went 10-2 and won the NFL title game. Including their AAFC years, the Browns made the Championship game of their respective league in each of their first 10 seasons
Las Vegas Golden Knights made it to the 2018 Finals in there very 1st NHL season....I just still can't believe that happend and yet it did
My Anaheim "Mighty" Ducks came in 1993/94 - went to Finals in 2003 (7-game series) after being in the league 10 years and won there first Cup in 2007 after 14 years !
Florida Panthers came same season as Anaheim, but after just 3 seasons in the league they made the 1996 Finals as to date only appearence.
All else that are not Original Six, it took longer time for making it to the Finals or came from rival league the WHA in the late 70's.
WHA. not WHL
@@JUVI9596 Oh that is true. Man I goofed that one. Thanks!
Quebec was also in the Semifinals/Conference Finals in 1982 (they beat Montreal in 5 games in the first round and Boston in 7 games in the second round).
Let's also not forget that those early expansion teams joined a much smaller league so just statistically speaking it was much more likely to make a deep run. Now with 32 teams it is tough for any team to win the cup, let alone the new one with only young players and other teams "leftovers". Makes what Vegas did and Seattle is doing now even more impressive
to be fair, seattle and vegas got much easier expansion rules than the 90s teams. especially the 97 expansion
I'm gonna be that guy, but I'm pretty sure LA Kings won a cup in 2012 as well ;)
Great work as usual Shannon!
One more correction.. the Nordiques reached their first conference final in 1982.
Yeah, they got swamped by the Islanders.
Is there a chance Burokovski comes back if Seattle keeps going?
Your takes on columbus and minnesota were accurate especially the fact that the reason columbus hasnt done well since entering the nhl was their expansion draft was really weak compared to those of vegas and seattle for recent comparisons and the salary cap era definetly helped vegas and seattle
i thought winnipeg went to the conference final in 2018
It hurts to hear Shannon selling short the Columbus fan base. Ya know the fan base that was selling out Nationwide at the end of the season when it was last place.
Sick vid
21:52: I was living in Philadelphia and following the team in 1973-74. I don't think there were any significant complaints about the Flyers not deserving to get in the playoffs and then the Stanley Cup final and winning it that year. The "Expansion Team" division had been expanded to include the Original Six Chicago Black Hawks. The Flyers not only beat the Black Hawks for the division title, but they did it with a monumental record of 50-16-12, 112 points. Then they beat Original Six Teams, the New York Rangers in the semi final and the Boston Bruins with Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito in the final.
Kings first Stanley cup was in 2012!!!!!!
People were pissed the Flyers won twice so soon but a lot of that was the way they played the game. However, even now when you look at the big picture, the Islanders are the only other exception to the "rule" people have in the heads about expansion teams. Every other team that won a cup since those two are roughly a decade or so out. It's such a silly puritanical and archaic argument that expansion teams should start with a deficit in some way or fashion.
What helped the Islanders was that after their terrible first year, the top player in the entry draft was Denis Potvin, who is badly underrated in hockey history. He was a McDavid level player, only as a defenseman. Then their 3rd draft, the rules were changed, allowing under-age players to be drafted in the first two rounds, so that year they got Clark Gillies, and Bryan Trottier. Trottier as a second round pick. Trottier was basically Sidney Crosby before Sidney Crosby. That's how you win quick championships.
This is like hockey school
I like the throwback stlouis jersey
Fun facts : montreal has been in 35 stanley cup finals and Toronto in 22.
Boston 20, Chicago 13, Detroit 24 and the Rangers 11 times.
I'm sure THG knows this, but the Seals are part of Dallas from a franchise standpoint. Yes, from a "Winnipeg still claims the old Jets logo" kind of outlook, the Seals and Sharks are closer related. But the Seals became the Cleveland Barons who merged with the Minnesota North Stars who became Dallas. Yes, the Sharks would draft players from Minnesota in their dispersal and expansion draft of 91, but the Minnesota franchise itself was sold and stayed in Minnesota for the time being. Franchise rights didn't move with the Gund brothers to San Jose.
SHANNON HATES THE KINGS SO HE TOOK AWAY OUR 2012 CUP!!! Just kidding. I waited 45 years for that cup and that cup run was a thing of beauty. Came out of nowhere as a #8 seed.
y'all had Justin Williams. That alone increased your chances by some 10%.
Take all other players they traded for or already there putting fire on the run, nothing but Cup comes to y'all.
Both Carolina and Jacksonville made the NFC/AFC championship in 1996 (2nd year for both)
Aside from Calgary winning their Stanley Cup, my favorite finals series was the Islanders' fourth Cup win. That was namely because they swept Edmonton in four games straight, and I hated Gretzky and the Oliers.
I'm happy we have competitive new teams. I just hope we can get a few other teams their first championship ever / in a long time before we deal with another dynasty or two.
Kind of shocking to me that I witnessed 11 first time Cup champs compared to only 10 from before I started watching. If Carolina doesn't win the Cup this season I am rooting for Florida to finally get theirs.
Jets conference finals 2018
The current Winnipeg Jets did make the Conference Final in 2018
You can't compare the last 2 expansion teams with the others. They are basically paying for success. The 70 80 and 90 expansion teams needed a minimum of 5-7 years to even become competitive.
LA Kings won their first cup in 2012 and their second in 2014
WE can put this video straight into the THG top ten. RIvetinhg stuff
Florida is going to win the Stanley Cup!
That is a ginormous, classroom-sized board!
NFL has a more recent one, while they didn't win SB, Panthers and Jags made AFC/NFC Championship in year 2
Curious if there had been just a few years delay for Chicago/Detroit/New York and it dragged until the depression, if the NHL would even exist.
Winnipeg made the third round in 18 and lost to Vegas
Speaking to "teams being able to come back next year and do it again," looking at the Canadiens making it all the way to the cup after being mediocre and then going right back to being mediocre
Penguins got Lemieux by absolutely tanking their season for him. You can partly thank Pittsburgh for the ridiculous draft lottery
If you can come up with the perfect system for drafting without any concern of tanking... let us know ... oh right there isn't one ...
@tastethejace The Pens did tank, but they weren't the only major pro sports team to do so that year. The NBA Houston Rockets also tanked for Olajuwon, and what they did was way worse because the franchise wasn't dying like the Pens were.
I actually think it was more the Eric Lindros tank that led to the draft lotto. That year the NHL also changed the rules, because it was the same year San Jose was entering the league. Up til then the new teams got the first (or first two) picks in the draft. But the existing teams didn't want the big new star going to a brand new team, so they fixed it so the worst team (Quebec) picked first and the new team picked second. It was a hose job.
I'd say you want expansion teams to be in playoff contention almost immediately, certainly within 5 years and ideally earlier. How long to conf finals or cup finals I don't think matter anywhere near as much. The closest experience I had was being in the Carolina region when the Whalers moved there. Not exactly the same, but very similar when you have a team new to a city/region. Had they been terrible for a long time after the move the team likely wouldn't have gotten the foothold they did and most certainly would not be there now. As it is they're my alternate team because I was there at the time.
LA won the Cup in 2012, then again in 2014. Board should have 2012 as their first Cup win.
0:50-1:24
There's a miscommunication here with the title of the video. The Leafs still are not competitive, so that's about 65-100 years in total depending on the metrics used :(
as a devils fan, in 2012 we LOST to the kings. thus 2012 was the kings first cup. I love your content though, keep up the great work!
You mentioned in passing how teams could protect a lot more players in the past and this is what handicapped the Lightning in the first few years. That said, three Stanley cups later, we're good.