I hate that he put an error into the video when it didn't exist at the start, though. -It was four times for Anaheim- ... And then I jumped the gun and paused RIGHT before he fixed that error again...
I went to my first Lightning game in 2002, and saying that Tampa is no longer viewed as a "non-traditional" hockey market is one of the most heart warming compliments. I tip my hat, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
There have been many studies that explain why conspiracy theories are so prevalent and resistant to logic. At their core, they provide a kind of self-justifying comfort for situations that their adherents find distasteful, while not providing facts or verifiable evidence. That being said, thank you Shannon for going to the effort to provide some sane and detailed perspective on this topic.
As a Lightning fan since their inception and I mean literally Phil Esposito taught a nine year old me how to hold a hockey stick and take wristers and slapshots THANK YOU for acknowledging we've had 3 generations of fans now and are no less knowledgeable or committed hockey fans than any other market! I'm a high school teacher in the area and the kids love the Bolts and play actual ice hockey right next to them at the Bolts Ice plex practice facility. 7 Florida born NHL players right now! Time to recognize it doesn't matter where you live you still have to book ice time!!
Okay this video reminded me of why I love your videos. Mentioning nobody thought Vegas would be good until they went to the finals and then everything was unfair 🙄 then southern markets being belittled. Living in Dallas and growing up with hockey and having Minnesota fans among others saying “Texas doesn’t have ice, you don’t know hockey” people can be infuriating 😂
@@fubartotale3389 I know an incredible amount of Canadians who follow hockey but have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. Having more hockey definitely doesn’t equal more knowledge
I immediately knew they were going to be good. It was obvious. Come on. That's a ridiculous take to say that EVERYONE thought Vegas was going to be bad 🙄🙄🙄
This is not just about hockey. This is like a TED talk about any conspiracy theory and why they are illogical and stupid. Way to go, THG! Great video :D
So you took care of me when I was stuck in a dungeon and now everyday I look to your videos to help me deal with the stress of life. You and Yvonne are amazing at what you do. Tk
Any time you poke holes in these conspiracies these people will just say "well they did/didn't do this or that in order to avoid suspicion etc etc" you can't win this argument they are just too stubborn
It makes me happy every time you tell us to talk amongst ourselves while you make a board correction. It's a silly thing. But it makes me giggle. I think it would be hard to not have Philly near the top of that playoff pain index with their repeated collision over the years with dynasties/near dynasties. Running into the Isles at their peak, the Oilers, the Blackhawks and Red Wings is just harsh. It may be better to have loved and lost, than never have loved at all. But that really is a lot of Lucy pulling the football back over the years.
Man... I'm really glad I found your channel. You give more insight and knowledge with a whiteboard than anything the so-called mainstream media. I have learned more from you than I ever did with them... Cheers
I don't think the NHL has been up to this, but ever since sports gambling got legalized sports have gotten weird. Insane comebacks and improbable things happen quite often in all sports now.
It happened all the time before. Giants beating the undefeated Pats in the superbowl, the Cavs 3-1 comeback against the best NBA team of all time, the Falcons 28-3 choke, Kings reverse sweep in 2014, and plenty of others. It’s not a new thing because of gambling. Yes the gambling sucks but it’s not a grand conspiracy theory to have certain teams win
Did you guys see that hockeyguy imitation channel? It's hilarious Shannon is sparking a possible trend of ppl thinking I can do what the hockey guy does...lol, long live the REAL hockeyguy
@@HALberdier17 yea I just seen it in my feed yesterday for the first time, it's hilarious, jerseys and white board in the background, of course waay smaller, and terrible at talking
Your opening statement is what I always wonder. So many fans think that the games are rigged, and it's like...why do you watch then? If it's always rigged and whole heartedly believing that it is, would take away from everything, no? Do they still think it's rigged when their team wins? Or....
Let's face it. If a Canadian franchise won a Cup in the last 30 years, people wouldn't have this conversation. And it's all the fault of those 7 organizations. Not some grand conspiracy.
Spot on. I’m Canadian but I’m not a fan of a Canadian team so I can sit back and be neutral about it. Yes 30 years with no cup in Canada is absurd but when you take a deep dive into why this has happened I think it’s fairly obvious. Look at the mistakes Canadian franchises have made. Every Canadian team has had awful management groups in the past 3 decades and they’ve made some franchise altering mistakes. I do believe some series had shady calls (Vancouver vs Boston, Montreal vs Vegas, was the puck in the net in 04 etc) but there’s been plenty of American teams who have also experienced some horrific calls. At the end of the day I believe poor management has played the biggest factor. Sorry for the long comment
@@edited1325 exactly. Plus plenty of Canadian teams end up eliminating each other. The Stanley cup is ridiculously hard to win. Some fanbases are blessed to witness great teams with great front offices and others aren’t so lucky. At the end of the day there will always be 31 losers now
I was a Flames fan in 2004, and the impression I got of the rules changes that occurred during the work stoppage was they were specifically designed to eliminate the playstyle the Flames had used. Also, that final penalty call at the end of game 7 was atrocious.
While you are generally right the only point I would add is the NHL looks at what is best for ratings / growing the game RIGHT NOW and this could determine who they "favour". And since public perception changes by the day that is why their is no long term idea of who they favour. They would just follow the money which is whatever team right here right now
In order for that to be true, the league would have to have the willing participation of the teams involved. How many teams are willing to *knowingly* lose in order for the "favorite" to win?
@@brandonmoorat2263 I don't think they would need any teams participation, they just control what they can to get the desired outcome. TV promotions, Social Media, Scheduling, or the most famous one "Game Management" (which is absolutely real). Done to give whatever slight edge to whoever will rake in more dough. All this would only have a tiny impact on the outcome, but sometimes a tiny impact is all that is needed.
@@brandonmoorat2263 You don't need to know you are involved in a conspiracy to be involved. And the "favorite" isn't guaranteed to win just because the NHL wants them to, there's too many variables on the ice for guarantee that. Doesn't mean that it don't exist though. I'd even go as far to say that it's true for the NFL and NBA as well
So true about the lightness and fun the Panthers are playing with right now. You put a Canadian team in the conference finals and there's a sense of impending doom. With maybe the exception being Montreal and their fans' collective confidence from their insanely successful history.
I mean really the Pittsburgh 2016 & 2017 Cups wins were orchestrated specifically as an apology to Phil Kessel for all the time they made him play in Toronto. Vegas' run this year is also for Kessel's benefit so he can retire as a three time Cup champion. It is the feel good story nobody asked for but it is the one Gary Bettman created. My source is I made it up.
If ever there was to be conclusive evidence (hard to imagine) of NHL fixing the games, that would be the death of my interest in hockey, so I like this Deep Dive. Go, Shannon!
Pieterangelo getting one game, while Nurse also getting one for engaging a willing combatant, is simply egregious. Benn getting 2 plus the early game misconduct just shows how far off the mark the Pieter suspension was....... and that's not even considering the ludicrous 3 games for Bunting while completely ignoring Eberle and Makar. If you're going to be good, you'll automatically be consistent. If you're going to be bad, at least be consistent in badness. But this bullshit of throwing darts at a board while blindfolded HAS to stop.
Difference being Pietrangelo was being targeted by the Oilers all series, while Dallas was targeting Stone all series also. There lies the differences. One could called Pietrbngelo's move a defensive, retaliation move while Benn's is a completion 100% offensive move.
Nice homer take. Piet's retaliation slash was not only necessary, but proportionate to the hacks and crosschecks oilers had no called all game. He was caught, suspended and penalized. Where is the favoritism? Nurse got one game for instigating a fight w hague who was attacked without warning
Practically everyone outside of Vegas, even some in Vegas, thought the suspension to Petra was "disgraceful". The guy is a sore loser and had a temper tantrum... He'll see payback for that yet. If McDavid, a guy who's constantly being hooked, slashed and interfered with, can refrain from axe swings out of frustration, that candyass Petra doesn't have ANY reason to do what he did. He has NO idea what being targeted actually is... The guys a goof and a good portion of the NHL, has lost respect for him. I fully expect Tkachuk to go right after him first chance he gets.
I like your take on non-traditional markets. I mean, I was 10ish when the Senators and Lightning came into the league. I moved to the States and had several friends who were die-hard Sharks fans (I didn't move to California). They've been to way more games than I ever attended while growing up in Vancouver and Calgary. Hockey markets is a good term.
Pretty wild to actually see it written out on a board just how good Tampa has been. Since 2011, the Lightning have been to either a Conference Final or a Stanley Cup Final in 7 of the last 13 seasons. Not too shabby.
And they’ve been to the Conference Final or SCF 6 out of the last 9 years, absolutely insane team. They’ve been the most consistently good team over the last decade or so.
@@Penguinzero1 I said “the last decade”, most of Chicago’s success was more than 10 years ago. And that team was fine with sexual assault. They are a terrible team now and lost all their respect. Their Cups should’ve been taken away.
someone said it before. "Traditional" market is where where kids go out side and play ice hockey in Winter. Us in "suh-thern" Florida lay on the beach and get a sunburn. :)
I know Tampa has been a top tier team a while, but I didn’t realize until now that they’ve been top-4 7 times the last 12 years. That’s insane! And only 2 cups?! I have to have a serious talk to Hedman when I meet him on the streets back here in Sweden this summer. They have to step up 😅😉
No, traditional markets = places I think hockey should be played. Canadians don't think southern teams should have hockey. It snows in Tennessee but Canadians don't like Nashville having a team. It snows in Carolina and they don't want the Canes in the league. And many Canadians don't think the US should have teams at all.
@@edited1325 Hard, sure, but building rinks will make is grow. I expect it to grow in the south as hockey is a physical contact sport and the South loves Football and Nascar, two contact sports. Issue with Hockey is accessibility.
Gotta love it. I was hearing that Florida was favored to win by Bettman and the NHL, but as soon as Vegas begins to beat them in the final, now Vegas is the favored team.
Gary knows that no team with players over 10mio cap hit have won the cup, so he sabotaged the Oilers by giving them Mcdavid! Its 6 dimensional tactitioning...
i started following Vegas because it's not everyday you can follow a team from their start till your end, they came in when i was 21 so didn't really have the opportunity before
Imagine if Chicago and Pittsburgh met in one of those Stanley Cup finals during the 2010s. 🔥 That would have been legendary. If the NHL was really 'favoring' teams, then they definitely would have made that CHI/PIT series happen. The two most successful teams of the decade and subsequently, the ENTIRE Salary Cap Era to date!
A couple of observations: 1. Tampa is rapidly becoming a hockey town, and with Tom Brady's retirement this is likely to just increase. 2. If the NHL is going to rig things, they're going to do so for the headlines and the TV ratings. Two of the biggest stories in sports since the year 2000 are the ending of World Series win droughts by the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs. There is really only two years on your board that are similar, with the St. Louis Blues and the Washington Capitals. But what about the Toronto Maple Leafs? You want a big story, how about Toronto in the finals breaking their drought? If I were the NHL scripting a playoffs, they are who would be winning at least one Cup.
I agree that people underestimate how big of news the Toronto Maple Leafs winning a Stanley Cup *would be in America.* The assumption is that it would go unnoticed "because Canada" but I think market size and franchise age play into things far more. The Columbus Blue Jackets could win three Stanley Cups in a row and I doubt it would get the American media attention of *one* Maple Leafs Cup run. It'd be a huge drought broken and the parade that would ensue would get more ESPN attention than a parade of at least 15 of the American franchises.
Been a Lightning fan my whole life. As a fan of a so called "non traditional market" it upsets me the way hockey fans say they want the sport to grow but gatekeep it so hard. My least favorite thing about hockey are its fans (in general) are the absolute worst and are the main reason the sport doesn't grow more
As a ducks fan, I appreciate the thumbnail... Only way it could be better if it was a picture of the District-5 team holding the Twin City youth hockey championship.
As a Flames fan, there is really no argument outside of acknowledging how poorly managed the Flames have been for the last 30+ years now. They have made it past the second round once in the last 30 years. 😅 That is a large enough sample size for me to conclude that there is clearly something flawed with how the team is managed internally. I don't work for the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporarion, but if I had to guess the problem, it's the billionaire co-owners that meddle in team management that they shouldn't be meddling in. It's unfortunate because the fanbase and brand got really strong after merely making it to the cup final 20 years ago, but passion for the team has diminished substantial in the last 6 years due to the mediocrity and continued disappointment. The whole Gaudreau situation really was the last straw for me, they should have traded him and should have seen the writing on the wall. I remember speculating that they would be trading him right after the playoffs ended (because it seemed obvious he was leaving when his agent wouldn't negotiate or say anything to the media), and they were naive enough to believe he would re-sign despite the evidence to the contrary. As a result, they lost a cornerstone player for nothing. That was simply idiotic, and other franchises in the league that always put good teams together constantly like Boston or Tampa would have done the right thing and traded him in that situation. They could have gotten a first round pick and other assets for him. I can't stress enough how asanine their handling of that situation was, and it's something the new GM has thankfully called a totally unacceptable error. If I had to speculate, I would say that Treleiving was obviously smart enough to see that Gaudreau was probably planning on leaving, but wasn't ever going to trade him because Murray Edwards (one of the co-owners that meddles more than he should) wouldn't have allowed it. Edmonton was similar to this during their dark years, Chicago as well in the late 90s and early 2000s. Almost every time a team is micromanaged by some dipshit billionaire, they continuously suck because dipshit billionaires typically don't know anything about hockey, and don't know how to step back and leave things alone.
Kind of. All 4 are in the top half for payroll, Vegas and Florida are top 10. When you consider that Florida won the President’s trophy last year, Dallas is often in the mix, Carolina has been this far numerous times, and Vegas just had one off year due to catastrophic injuries, it doesn’t look so out of left field.
The goofiness of the idea that certain teams are not in the league "long enough" is pointed up by the fact that the Islanders now have been in the league longer than the Rangers were when the Islanders entered the league, and the same could be said that the original expansion teams of 1967 have a longer tenure in the league than any of the so-called "original six" had when the expansion teams entered the league.
i don't think the NHL wanted Montreal in 2021, they wanted Toronto. it was 3-1 The NHL always wants Toronto but this team is pure garbage in the playoffs since the 60s.
Make no mistake. In 2015, Kane got his collarbone shattered in late February by Petrovic. The Hawks reaped the benefits for sure, but this was no funny business like Kucherov literally sitting out. Kane made a miracle-like quick comeback
The only reason you hear complaints is because Toronto isn't on your board. And if Toronto hasn't won the Cup before Christmas the league is obviously fixed.
Toronto cant win a Cup unless its a Six Team league. 1967.....and nothing since. That is a fact , period. Shannon, Buffalo and Vancouver have been to the Finals since then in 1970 when they were both added. Toronto needs to relocate to Phoenix for Matthews.....then Phoenix can go to Quebec City with all relocation issues settled. Balanced conferences etc.😋
Ottawa got hosed by the playoff hockey rules change happening in the cup final and not in the first round. This was the year after the lockout and the clutching and grabbing was stopped up until the final.
I think its not so much the nhl favouring any team but the way playoffs are officiated they seem to allow dirty players to do their thing which favours that type of team and play. Just look at the two teams going to the cup finals.
I remember going down to Disneyland back in 2017 and went to a playoff game in Anaheim. An it was great to see all the Ducks’ fans, a lot of passion and also a lot of knowledgeable fans too. So the argument of “non-traditional” is always annoying to see and hear from other Canadian fans or fans in general
I’m that weirdo that had Vegas after the expansion draft barely making the playoffs in year one. They had no stars (okay, fine, Fleury) but had good depth. I didn’t think they’d do much more than maybe win a game or 2 in the playoffs, but I did have them making it.
2007 - Sens vs Ducks. People forget that the Sens were just rolling through the playoffs - they won rounds 1-3 in 5 games each. Then the league, I think due to an NBA conflict, delayed the start of the Finals and the Sens didn't play for 11 straight days completely taking them out of their groove. While the Ducks sat for 5 or 6 days, and they had some injured players who had more time to get healthy but they didn't sit long enough to develop rust. The Ducks would likely still have won the Cup that year, but it would have been a hell of a lot closer if they had the typical 2-3 days off between series.
No… the Ducks also were steamrolling their opponents for first two rounds in 5 games… the only team that gave them a tougher time was Detroit which went one more game (6) after Anaheim went down 2-1 in that series. Also remember That Ottawa led for most of Game 1… and they also had a lead in game 4 before the Ducks answered back. Pronger was also suspended for the game 3 Macammond hit for game 4… Game 5 was just a clinic with the exception of Alfredson putting up a fight despite Phillips and Emery putting it in their own net in the second period.
@@dstcoyote22rants "No"? Lol so the 11 days off, a completely unnatural length of time off, during a playoff run, had no impact on the Sens cooling off? Lol
@@Whitesquall123 no the long break wasn’t the reason why the Sens lost in 5… my point was the Sens had every opportunity in games 1 and 4 to put the Ducks away by staying ahead but didn’t. They could have easily tied the series while Pronger was suspended but didn’t. If the Sens were as cold as you said they were, then the first two games shouldn’t have been decided by a goal. That Ducks defense and third shutdown line just outplayed the top scoring Spezza, Heatly, and Alfredsson line…
@@dstcoyote22rants as I literally wrote in my first comment, the Ducks would still have likely won, but the long delay contributed to the lopsided outcome.
Its funny going to neutral games for my twin brother and I. He is a Bruins fan, I'm a Lightning fan. People talk to us as if I know nothing and he is the knowledgeable one. We're at the same level and somehow it shocks people
Obviously a lot of fans just cope by saying “well you know they wanted our team to lose, we had twice as many penalties called against us” but idk, I still feel like where there are calls that could go either way potentially the NHL, particularly the war room in Toronto will make a decision that lends itself to a comeback or to be more competitive. I don’t think it’s fixed or anything like that. Let’s say it was real, though. I don’t know if it would be beneficial or worth the time investment to try and fix entire seasons. I think the best way to go about things would be let the regular season play out, then of the teams remaining you decide okay here are the teams we would prefer of the teams. Okay, so now any 50/50 calls would go the way of the preferred team or whatever. I don’t think it would be a total fix or anything like that, just slightly preferential treatment which, when teams are this good and this close could make a difference, likely not but idk… it also just feels like it’s human nature for officials or whoever to have a preference of two teams and maybe be a bit more favorable because again, these are human beings. That said, I don’t really think this happens, but I also don’t think it would be the same teams all the time, it would depend on a ton of factors… I wouldn’t expect it to be the same teams all the time, I would expect okay these teams are good this would be the best outcome of the remainder in terms of profitability for the league in the short term, okay they’re gonna get the benefit of the doubt on close calls. It doesn’t guarantee they win, it’s not the same teams all the time… it could be a team with a good story like the Storm Surge Canes or whatever. Anyways, that’s how I think it would be done if it were.
Also, if the NHL were biased to whatever gets them the most money in a way that it bleeds down to the games... Teams down in the playoffs say 3-1 or 3-0 would be much more likely to get the calls and win their games. Because every time a series gets extended they sell so many extra tickets.
The only years that you showed that had two small market teams in the Finals were 2006 (Carolina/Edmonton) and 2017 (Nashville/Pittsburgh - although since "Sid the Kid" was the showcase, that one didn't matter). While I don't think Bettman or the league front office itself cares that much, I could definitely see a case where the TV networks would be in an absolute panic about a prospective Carolina/Vegas matchup "tainting" their Stanley Cup. (Especially ESPN which notoriously hates the Hurricanes anyway.) So with Dallas falling out of the Finals, I don't think the networks writing backdoor checks to the referees' union to massage the games seems that far fetched - to at least get South Florida into the mix. And South Florida being the "6th borough" of New York, doesn't hurt. I remember other Finals in the past where it seemed to me where the momentum of certain teams was wrecked by capricious icing, offsides, or other touch fouls that created extra power plays for certain teams. I think the Sharks have been a victim of this a lot for some reason. I do remember it was really bad when Crosby came into the league, and we got force fed Penguins games every weekend, and anytime the defense even looked at Crosby it was a power play...Back in the day it was feared that the sportsbooks would corrupt the game. I don't think the books care much about the various outcomes. But the television networks have a direct vested interest in manipulating the playoff markets. I don't think it is as bad as other sports (yeah, I'm looking at you, NFL!) but the officiating at the Stanley Cup level has always had a fishy smell to me...
A channel tradition: Shannon driving himself insane so we could have 30-40 minutes of entertainment
I hate that he put an error into the video when it didn't exist at the start, though. -It was four times for Anaheim- ...
And then I jumped the gun and paused RIGHT before he fixed that error again...
Ah, yes. The good ol’ “my team did not win, therefore this is rigged.”😂
But is it true?
@@Killthesefears only for my team unfortunately
Shannon has the habit of making long-form counter-argument videos against what are ultimately just emotionally-driven complaints lol.
@@adriftt607 lmfao
I went to my first Lightning game in 2002, and saying that Tampa is no longer viewed as a "non-traditional" hockey market is one of the most heart warming compliments. I tip my hat, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Tell that to Max Kellerman of ESPN
I remember the lock out shorten year in 2013 and how excited all of the fans were for hockey to be back. Tampa loves their hockey
@@adam.vision Just because Max Kellerman has a TV platform and an opinion does not mean he is correct.
I love the madness boards!
Thanks Shannon we appreciate all your hard work
There have been many studies that explain why conspiracy theories are so prevalent and resistant to logic. At their core, they provide a kind of self-justifying comfort for situations that their adherents find distasteful, while not providing facts or verifiable evidence.
That being said, thank you Shannon for going to the effort to provide some sane and detailed perspective on this topic.
This is exactly why I love this channel. Thank you so much for your dedication, Shannon ! ❤
As a Lightning fan since their inception and I mean literally Phil Esposito taught a nine year old me how to hold a hockey stick and take wristers and slapshots THANK YOU for acknowledging we've had 3 generations of fans now and are no less knowledgeable or committed hockey fans than any other market! I'm a high school teacher in the area and the kids love the Bolts and play actual ice hockey right next to them at the Bolts Ice plex practice facility. 7 Florida born NHL players right now! Time to recognize it doesn't matter where you live you still have to book ice time!!
Okay this video reminded me of why I love your videos. Mentioning nobody thought Vegas would be good until they went to the finals and then everything was unfair 🙄 then southern markets being belittled. Living in Dallas and growing up with hockey and having Minnesota fans among others saying “Texas doesn’t have ice, you don’t know hockey” people can be infuriating 😂
By the way the Dallas fans behaved the other night, maybe some people have apoint about that.
It's kinda true though, let's be real.
@@fubartotale3389 I know an incredible amount of Canadians who follow hockey but have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. Having more hockey definitely doesn’t equal more knowledge
I immediately knew they were going to be good. It was obvious. Come on. That's a ridiculous take to say that EVERYONE thought Vegas was going to be bad 🙄🙄🙄
@@CertifiedClapaholic …. Go research articles about VGK before that season and every “expert” said they would be bad
Great stuff! So cool to be able have fun hockey talk with friends bc of the knowledge you share.
This is not just about hockey. This is like a TED talk about any conspiracy theory and why they are illogical and stupid. Way to go, THG! Great video :D
Thank you for your dedication Shannon! I really started to get into hockey this year and you’ve been a huge part of growing my hockey knowledge
So you took care of me when I was stuck in a dungeon and now everyday I look to your videos to help me deal with the stress of life. You and Yvonne are amazing at what you do. Tk
Any time you poke holes in these conspiracies these people will just say "well they did/didn't do this or that in order to avoid suspicion etc etc" you can't win this argument they are just too stubborn
It makes me happy every time you tell us to talk amongst ourselves while you make a board correction. It's a silly thing. But it makes me giggle.
I think it would be hard to not have Philly near the top of that playoff pain index with their repeated collision over the years with dynasties/near dynasties. Running into the Isles at their peak, the Oilers, the Blackhawks and Red Wings is just harsh. It may be better to have loved and lost, than never have loved at all. But that really is a lot of Lucy pulling the football back over the years.
Man... I'm really glad I found your channel. You give more insight and knowledge with a whiteboard than anything the so-called mainstream media. I have learned more from you than I ever did with them... Cheers
Jersey and hat combo are generational
I don't think the NHL has been up to this, but ever since sports gambling got legalized sports have gotten weird. Insane comebacks and improbable things happen quite often in all sports now.
It happened all the time before. Giants beating the undefeated Pats in the superbowl, the Cavs 3-1 comeback against the best NBA team of all time, the Falcons 28-3 choke, Kings reverse sweep in 2014, and plenty of others. It’s not a new thing because of gambling. Yes the gambling sucks but it’s not a grand conspiracy theory to have certain teams win
Did you guys see that hockeyguy imitation channel? It's hilarious Shannon is sparking a possible trend of ppl thinking I can do what the hockey guy does...lol, long live the REAL hockeyguy
I saw it I never watched their videos. I saw them in my feed a few times.
@@HALberdier17 yea I just seen it in my feed yesterday for the first time, it's hilarious, jerseys and white board in the background, of course waay smaller, and terrible at talking
Your opening statement is what I always wonder. So many fans think that the games are rigged, and it's like...why do you watch then? If it's always rigged and whole heartedly believing that it is, would take away from everything, no? Do they still think it's rigged when their team wins? Or....
that's what i've always said.
Let's face it. If a Canadian franchise won a Cup in the last 30 years, people wouldn't have this conversation. And it's all the fault of those 7 organizations. Not some grand conspiracy.
Spot on. I’m Canadian but I’m not a fan of a Canadian team so I can sit back and be neutral about it. Yes 30 years with no cup in Canada is absurd but when you take a deep dive into why this has happened I think it’s fairly obvious. Look at the mistakes Canadian franchises have made. Every Canadian team has had awful management groups in the past 3 decades and they’ve made some franchise altering mistakes. I do believe some series had shady calls (Vancouver vs Boston, Montreal vs Vegas, was the puck in the net in 04 etc) but there’s been plenty of American teams who have also experienced some horrific calls. At the end of the day I believe poor management has played the biggest factor. Sorry for the long comment
@@edited1325 exactly. Plus plenty of Canadian teams end up eliminating each other. The Stanley cup is ridiculously hard to win. Some fanbases are blessed to witness great teams with great front offices and others aren’t so lucky. At the end of the day there will always be 31 losers now
Montreal must miss their ability to claim a Quebec player before the entry draft.
@THE OG PANTHER let's go a fellow Canadian panthers fan! VAMOS GATOS!!!
I was a Flames fan in 2004, and the impression I got of the rules changes that occurred during the work stoppage was they were specifically designed to eliminate the playstyle the Flames had used.
Also, that final penalty call at the end of game 7 was atrocious.
While you are generally right the only point I would add is the NHL looks at what is best for ratings / growing the game RIGHT NOW and this could determine who they "favour". And since public perception changes by the day that is why their is no long term idea of who they favour. They would just follow the money which is whatever team right here right now
In order for that to be true, the league would have to have the willing participation of the teams involved. How many teams are willing to *knowingly* lose in order for the "favorite" to win?
@@brandonmoorat2263 I don't think they would need any teams participation, they just control what they can to get the desired outcome. TV promotions, Social Media, Scheduling, or the most famous one "Game Management" (which is absolutely real). Done to give whatever slight edge to whoever will rake in more dough. All this would only have a tiny impact on the outcome, but sometimes a tiny impact is all that is needed.
@@brandonmoorat2263 You don't need to know you are involved in a conspiracy to be involved. And the "favorite" isn't guaranteed to win just because the NHL wants them to, there's too many variables on the ice for guarantee that. Doesn't mean that it don't exist though. I'd even go as far to say that it's true for the NFL and NBA as well
Hells yah
So true about the lightness and fun the Panthers are playing with right now. You put a Canadian team in the conference finals and there's a sense of impending doom. With maybe the exception being Montreal and their fans' collective confidence from their insanely successful history.
I mean really the Pittsburgh 2016 & 2017 Cups wins were orchestrated specifically as an apology to Phil Kessel for all the time they made him play in Toronto. Vegas' run this year is also for Kessel's benefit so he can retire as a three time Cup champion. It is the feel good story nobody asked for but it is the one Gary Bettman created. My source is I made it up.
couldn't have happened to a better guy
Love rocking the Lightning gear for this video. Lightning strikes again!
If ever there was to be conclusive evidence (hard to imagine) of NHL fixing the games, that would be the death of my interest in hockey, so I like this Deep Dive. Go, Shannon!
Pieterangelo getting one game, while Nurse also getting one for engaging a willing combatant, is simply egregious. Benn getting 2 plus the early game misconduct just shows how far off the mark the Pieter suspension was....... and that's not even considering the ludicrous 3 games for Bunting while completely ignoring Eberle and Makar.
If you're going to be good, you'll automatically be consistent. If you're going to be bad, at least be consistent in badness. But this bullshit of throwing darts at a board while blindfolded HAS to stop.
Difference being Pietrangelo was being targeted by the Oilers all series, while Dallas was targeting Stone all series also. There lies the differences. One could called Pietrbngelo's move a defensive, retaliation move while Benn's is a completion 100% offensive move.
Nice homer take. Piet's retaliation slash was not only necessary, but proportionate to the hacks and crosschecks oilers had no called all game. He was caught, suspended and penalized. Where is the favoritism? Nurse got one game for instigating a fight w hague who was attacked without warning
Nurse's is in the rulebook as automatic. It's not a favoritism issue vis-a-vis Pietrangelo.
Practically everyone outside of Vegas, even some in Vegas, thought the suspension to Petra was "disgraceful". The guy is a sore loser and had a temper tantrum... He'll see payback for that yet.
If McDavid, a guy who's constantly being hooked, slashed and interfered with, can refrain from axe swings out of frustration, that candyass Petra doesn't have ANY reason to do what he did. He has NO idea what being targeted actually is... The guys a goof and a good portion of the NHL, has lost respect for him. I fully expect Tkachuk to go right after him first chance he gets.
@@RickL_was_here Another sore loser Oilers fan
I like your take on non-traditional markets. I mean, I was 10ish when the Senators and Lightning came into the league. I moved to the States and had several friends who were die-hard Sharks fans (I didn't move to California). They've been to way more games than I ever attended while growing up in Vancouver and Calgary. Hockey markets is a good term.
Pretty wild to actually see it written out on a board just how good Tampa has been. Since 2011, the Lightning have been to either a Conference Final or a Stanley Cup Final in 7 of the last 13 seasons. Not too shabby.
Too
@@Penguinzero1 haha I can't believe I did that. Fixed.
And they’ve been to the Conference Final or SCF 6 out of the last 9 years, absolutely insane team. They’ve been the most consistently good team over the last decade or so.
@@GWh135 Chicago won 3 cups in 5 years
@@Penguinzero1 I said “the last decade”, most of Chicago’s success was more than 10 years ago. And that team was fine with sexual assault. They are a terrible team now and lost all their respect. Their Cups should’ve been taken away.
If it was fixed,2012 Yotes would have won the cup,or win the Mathew’s lottery!
someone said it before. "Traditional" market is where where kids go out side and play ice hockey in Winter. Us in "suh-thern" Florida lay on the beach and get a sunburn. :)
I know Tampa has been a top tier team a while, but I didn’t realize until now that they’ve been top-4 7 times the last 12 years. That’s insane! And only 2 cups?! I have to have a serious talk to Hedman when I meet him on the streets back here in Sweden this summer. They have to step up 😅😉
And they won in 2004
@@timothyhaley6187 I know.
Top 4 - 8 times total - 4 finals appearances - 2 cups - exactly what is expected.
@@jfayiii 3 cups* 2004, 2020 and 2021, and 5 appearances in the finals
Tampa being on the board 7 times is actually correct.
"Traditional market" just means "places where it snows in winter".
No, traditional markets = places I think hockey should be played.
Canadians don't think southern teams should have hockey. It snows in Tennessee but Canadians don't like Nashville having a team. It snows in Carolina and they don't want the Canes in the league.
And many Canadians don't think the US should have teams at all.
@@edited1325 it doesn’t get cold enough for lakes to freeze in Vancouver, yet everyone rightfully believes that market deserves a team
@@protoman1365 Vancouver is at the foot of a (/multiple) mountain(s), on which you can ski into the summer...
@@edited1325
Hard, sure, but building rinks will make is grow. I expect it to grow in the south as hockey is a physical contact sport and the South loves Football and Nascar, two contact sports.
Issue with Hockey is accessibility.
@Yobear try playing hockey in a ski resort 😂
Gotta love it. I was hearing that Florida was favored to win by Bettman and the NHL, but as soon as Vegas begins to beat them in the final, now Vegas is the favored team.
First thought looking at the board; the lightning have been competitive for quite a while.
Will be curious to see if they can bounce back next year
No way the NHL would let the Oilers get so many 1OA picks including 97 if they were rigging things.
If they were rigging things against Canada
Gary knows that no team with players over 10mio cap hit have won the cup, so he sabotaged the Oilers by giving them Mcdavid! Its 6 dimensional tactitioning...
i started following Vegas because it's not everyday you can follow a team from their start till your end, they came in when i was 21 so didn't really have the opportunity before
Correction, Ryan Suter out played Oettinger with that nice assist on the tying goal in game 2
I agree.
Imagine if Chicago and Pittsburgh met in one of those Stanley Cup finals during the 2010s. 🔥 That would have been legendary.
If the NHL was really 'favoring' teams, then they definitely would have made that CHI/PIT series happen. The two most successful teams of the decade and subsequently, the ENTIRE Salary Cap Era to date!
A couple of observations:
1. Tampa is rapidly becoming a hockey town, and with Tom Brady's retirement this is likely to just increase.
2. If the NHL is going to rig things, they're going to do so for the headlines and the TV ratings. Two of the biggest stories in sports since the year 2000 are the ending of World Series win droughts by the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs. There is really only two years on your board that are similar, with the St. Louis Blues and the Washington Capitals. But what about the Toronto Maple Leafs? You want a big story, how about Toronto in the finals breaking their drought? If I were the NHL scripting a playoffs, they are who would be winning at least one Cup.
I agree that people underestimate how big of news the Toronto Maple Leafs winning a Stanley Cup *would be in America.* The assumption is that it would go unnoticed "because Canada" but I think market size and franchise age play into things far more. The Columbus Blue Jackets could win three Stanley Cups in a row and I doubt it would get the American media attention of *one* Maple Leafs Cup run. It'd be a huge drought broken and the parade that would ensue would get more ESPN attention than a parade of at least 15 of the American franchises.
Makes me happy to see you in a lightning jersey 🥰
Thanks for all the effort you put into the videos
Been a Lightning fan my whole life. As a fan of a so called "non traditional market" it upsets me the way hockey fans say they want the sport to grow but gatekeep it so hard. My least favorite thing about hockey are its fans (in general) are the absolute worst and are the main reason the sport doesn't grow more
If you can have 2 or 3 players that target opposition players to intentionally injure them is the key to winning in the playoffs.
Many rabbit holes🤣 Great content as always.
Yes Bettman loves the City of Tampa. We wine and dine him at the best local steakhouse with the full desert room every time he arrives. 😂
As a ducks fan, I appreciate the thumbnail... Only way it could be better if it was a picture of the District-5 team holding the Twin City youth hockey championship.
From 1956 to 1993, Canadian teams won 27 Cups out of 38.
Good old madness boards. You love to see it.
Absolutely a Clinician! Right on Shanny! Perfect.
That thumbnail. Chefs kiss.
I don't know about who has been favored but I can tell you this. The leafs aren't on this board lol
As a Flames fan, there is really no argument outside of acknowledging how poorly managed the Flames have been for the last 30+ years now. They have made it past the second round once in the last 30 years. 😅 That is a large enough sample size for me to conclude that there is clearly something flawed with how the team is managed internally. I don't work for the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporarion, but if I had to guess the problem, it's the billionaire co-owners that meddle in team management that they shouldn't be meddling in.
It's unfortunate because the fanbase and brand got really strong after merely making it to the cup final 20 years ago, but passion for the team has diminished substantial in the last 6 years due to the mediocrity and continued disappointment. The whole Gaudreau situation really was the last straw for me, they should have traded him and should have seen the writing on the wall. I remember speculating that they would be trading him right after the playoffs ended (because it seemed obvious he was leaving when his agent wouldn't negotiate or say anything to the media), and they were naive enough to believe he would re-sign despite the evidence to the contrary. As a result, they lost a cornerstone player for nothing. That was simply idiotic, and other franchises in the league that always put good teams together constantly like Boston or Tampa would have done the right thing and traded him in that situation. They could have gotten a first round pick and other assets for him. I can't stress enough how asanine their handling of that situation was, and it's something the new GM has thankfully called a totally unacceptable error. If I had to speculate, I would say that Treleiving was obviously smart enough to see that Gaudreau was probably planning on leaving, but wasn't ever going to trade him because Murray Edwards (one of the co-owners that meddles more than he should) wouldn't have allowed it. Edmonton was similar to this during their dark years, Chicago as well in the late 90s and early 2000s. Almost every time a team is micromanaged by some dipshit billionaire, they continuously suck because dipshit billionaires typically don't know anything about hockey, and don't know how to step back and leave things alone.
The passive aggresivness is off the charts. I love it.
Fiiiiiiiiiine.... *hits bong* ....hit me with the stats, Shannon.
That the east and west have swapped places in a few years (on the board) makes my brain itch, but I love these videos anyway!
Kreider didn't just end MTL's run in 2014, he torpedo'd Price's career who never fully recovered from the injury.
If the NHL really wanted florida in the playoffs they did a fantastic job telling Crosby and Co. to throw the game vs blackhawks.
This year specifically has to be the most odd matchups in history! Florida, Carolina, Vegas, and Dallas all in the final 4? 😂 so weird
Kind of. All 4 are in the top half for payroll, Vegas and Florida are top 10. When you consider that Florida won the President’s trophy last year, Dallas is often in the mix, Carolina has been this far numerous times, and Vegas just had one off year due to catastrophic injuries, it doesn’t look so out of left field.
The goofiness of the idea that certain teams are not in the league "long enough" is pointed up by the fact that the Islanders now have been in the league longer than the Rangers were when the Islanders entered the league, and the same could be said that the original expansion teams of 1967 have a longer tenure in the league than any of the so-called "original six" had when the expansion teams entered the league.
i don't think the NHL wanted Montreal in 2021, they wanted Toronto. it was 3-1
The NHL always wants Toronto but this team is pure garbage in the playoffs since the 60s.
chris belos That is an outright lie. Must suck that your team is so bad now.
Great video. Informative and entertaining.
Chicago Blackhawks’ fan here:
I suspect that the fix was in when the Blackhawks won the first pick in the NHL Draft Lottery.
Make no mistake. In 2015, Kane got his collarbone shattered in late February by Petrovic. The Hawks reaped the benefits for sure, but this was no funny business like Kucherov literally sitting out. Kane made a miracle-like quick comeback
The only reason you hear complaints is because Toronto isn't on your board. And if Toronto hasn't won the Cup before Christmas the league is obviously fixed.
Toronto cant win a Cup unless its a Six Team league.
1967.....and nothing since.
That is a fact , period. Shannon, Buffalo and Vancouver have been to the Finals since then in 1970 when they were both added.
Toronto needs to relocate to Phoenix for Matthews.....then Phoenix can go to Quebec City with all relocation issues settled. Balanced conferences etc.😋
If I can help you with anything else Shannon just ask....👍
its clearly betman's fault Toronto's core forwards cant score and Oiler's cant outscore their leaky defense using Macdraistl alone
Half of my favorite tv shows were put together in the Hollywood beer league, including one of the best hockey episodes I've ever seen on TV.
Best sports channel
It is truly crazy how many VGK logos are on the right side of that board
As a Canes fan I think you have brought up us getting swept in 3 ECFs about 5 times this week. Must we...
Ottawa got hosed by the playoff hockey rules change happening in the cup final and not in the first round. This was the year after the lockout and the clutching and grabbing was stopped up until the final.
The Shannonverse of Madness
A version of this where Shannon just says "vegas" repeatedly for 30+ minutes would be hilarious
I think its not so much the nhl favouring any team but the way playoffs are officiated they seem to allow dirty players to do their thing which favours that type of team and play. Just look at the two teams going to the cup finals.
My second comment the final we needed was Boston Vegas old coach against the new one east vs west
he truly is the hockey guy
Cool video, I also dabble in madness. Not always by choice, but there's a payoff.
I remember going down to Disneyland back in 2017 and went to a playoff game in Anaheim. An it was great to see all the Ducks’ fans, a lot of passion and also a lot of knowledgeable fans too. So the argument of “non-traditional” is always annoying to see and hear from other Canadian fans or fans in general
I love your sarcasm, lol
Shannon went off with this one, my gosh hahaha
I’m that weirdo that had Vegas after the expansion draft barely making the playoffs in year one. They had no stars (okay, fine, Fleury) but had good depth. I didn’t think they’d do much more than maybe win a game or 2 in the playoffs, but I did have them making it.
2007 - Sens vs Ducks. People forget that the Sens were just rolling through the playoffs - they won rounds 1-3 in 5 games each. Then the league, I think due to an NBA conflict, delayed the start of the Finals and the Sens didn't play for 11 straight days completely taking them out of their groove. While the Ducks sat for 5 or 6 days, and they had some injured players who had more time to get healthy but they didn't sit long enough to develop rust.
The Ducks would likely still have won the Cup that year, but it would have been a hell of a lot closer if they had the typical 2-3 days off between series.
No… the Ducks also were steamrolling their opponents for first two rounds in 5 games… the only team that gave them a tougher time was Detroit which went one more game (6) after Anaheim went down 2-1 in that series. Also remember
That Ottawa led for most of Game 1… and they also had a lead in game 4 before the Ducks answered back. Pronger was also suspended for the game
3 Macammond hit for game 4… Game 5 was just a clinic with the exception of Alfredson putting up a fight despite Phillips and Emery putting it in their own net in the second period.
@@dstcoyote22rants "No"? Lol so the 11 days off, a completely unnatural length of time off, during a playoff run, had no impact on the Sens cooling off? Lol
@@Whitesquall123 no the long break wasn’t the reason why the Sens lost in 5… my point was the Sens had every opportunity in games 1 and 4 to put the Ducks away by staying ahead but didn’t. They could have easily tied the series while Pronger was suspended but didn’t. If the Sens were as cold as you said they were, then the first two games shouldn’t have been decided by a goal. That Ducks defense and third shutdown line just outplayed the top scoring Spezza, Heatly, and Alfredsson line…
@@dstcoyote22rants as I literally wrote in my first comment, the Ducks would still have likely won, but the long delay contributed to the lopsided outcome.
Looking at what an absolute slot machine of a sport playoff hockey is, if it’s played by a script it’s written by Quentin Tarantino
An interesting look might be how many non traditional market has a Number 1 pick? Any team out side of Florida?
Shannon's work will never be done explaining the conspiracy theories of hockey.
I love your channel. Proving that the nhl isn’t rigged, not the wins, not the lottery. Love it, prove all the hockey dummy’s wrong
I love my Hawks but winning the Bedard sweepstakes is highly questionable.
This was a great overview of the madness of NHL playoff hockey. Get hot, move on. Get a little luck going your way...move on.
I'm going to be hearing "SOW-thurn" in my head for the rest of the day.
The NHL might not but the NBA certainly does.
Its funny going to neutral games for my twin brother and I. He is a Bruins fan, I'm a Lightning fan. People talk to us as if I know nothing and he is the knowledgeable one. We're at the same level and somehow it shocks people
Obviously a lot of fans just cope by saying “well you know they wanted our team to lose, we had twice as many penalties called against us” but idk, I still feel like where there are calls that could go either way potentially the NHL, particularly the war room in Toronto will make a decision that lends itself to a comeback or to be more competitive. I don’t think it’s fixed or anything like that.
Let’s say it was real, though. I don’t know if it would be beneficial or worth the time investment to try and fix entire seasons. I think the best way to go about things would be let the regular season play out, then of the teams remaining you decide okay here are the teams we would prefer of the teams. Okay, so now any 50/50 calls would go the way of the preferred team or whatever. I don’t think it would be a total fix or anything like that, just slightly preferential treatment which, when teams are this good and this close could make a difference, likely not but idk… it also just feels like it’s human nature for officials or whoever to have a preference of two teams and maybe be a bit more favorable because again, these are human beings. That said, I don’t really think this happens, but I also don’t think it would be the same teams all the time, it would depend on a ton of factors… I wouldn’t expect it to be the same teams all the time, I would expect okay these teams are good this would be the best outcome of the remainder in terms of profitability for the league in the short term, okay they’re gonna get the benefit of the doubt on close calls. It doesn’t guarantee they win, it’s not the same teams all the time… it could be a team with a good story like the Storm Surge Canes or whatever. Anyways, that’s how I think it would be done if it were.
Also, if the NHL were biased to whatever gets them the most money in a way that it bleeds down to the games... Teams down in the playoffs say 3-1 or 3-0 would be much more likely to get the calls and win their games. Because every time a series gets extended they sell so many extra tickets.
great show
The only years that you showed that had two small market teams in the Finals were 2006 (Carolina/Edmonton) and 2017 (Nashville/Pittsburgh - although since "Sid the Kid" was the showcase, that one didn't matter). While I don't think Bettman or the league front office itself cares that much, I could definitely see a case where the TV networks would be in an absolute panic about a prospective Carolina/Vegas matchup "tainting" their Stanley Cup. (Especially ESPN which notoriously hates the Hurricanes anyway.) So with Dallas falling out of the Finals, I don't think the networks writing backdoor checks to the referees' union to massage the games seems that far fetched - to at least get South Florida into the mix. And South Florida being the "6th borough" of New York, doesn't hurt. I remember other Finals in the past where it seemed to me where the momentum of certain teams was wrecked by capricious icing, offsides, or other touch fouls that created extra power plays for certain teams. I think the Sharks have been a victim of this a lot for some reason. I do remember it was really bad when Crosby came into the league, and we got force fed Penguins games every weekend, and anytime the defense even looked at Crosby it was a power play...Back in the day it was feared that the sportsbooks would corrupt the game. I don't think the books care much about the various outcomes. But the television networks have a direct vested interest in manipulating the playoff markets. I don't think it is as bad as other sports (yeah, I'm looking at you, NFL!) but the officiating at the Stanley Cup level has always had a fishy smell to me...
Selenne was a big reason for the ducks only cup veteran HEAVY team.
THANKS
27:49 as a bolts fan I’ve been told a million times that only WE use LTIR to scam our way into 3 cups and 5 SCF appearances this century !
The NHL favoring the Blues. I'm STILL waiting to hear that the league is revoking the Cup for some reason.
11:48 THANK YOU! There is SO much historical revisionism about this, it is good to hear someone dismiss it for the BS that it is.
The Blackhawks, in addition to being from Chicago, had the Tom Lysiak curse, because he tripped a ref or something like that.