Thanks for watching! I'm glad you guys appreciate the honesty here, something I will always upkeep :) Btw here is a video of my favorite scooter currently! ruclips.net/video/5Db8cxSvX_E/видео.html
Thank you!! I’m glad somebody finally has come out and said it. You’re spot on about the “lower bar” set by scooter manufactures. There are other scooter influencers here on RUclips that would rate Apollo as one of the best scooters and scooter company on earth. Yet there is nothing in their review that brings to light the issue of the one trick handlebar setup. I appreciate your honesty. Keep the reviews coming.
Thank you! Haha yeah, I feel ya, the bar is set low kind of by everybody. The manufacturers remain unchallenged because everyone's expectations are so low! But nobody is really trying to raise the bar (pun not intended) and if they are, they struggle to get much attention or maybe they really blow it in some other way. Still baffling how nobody else implements that regen feature as well! That's the one thing they could take from Apollo. Incredibly frustrating.
Honestly, this is the best critical review of Apollo scooters that I've seen. I've done some but not a ton of mountain biking. I agree with you that the bar for suspension expectations is much lower with scooters compared to mountain bikes. I bet in the long future, we might start to see more innovation with aftermarket suspension mods once the scooter industry matures more. For me, I don't imagine I will be doing hardly any off road riding in my scooter, and it will be mainly used as a replacement for a car in commuting. As such, I definitely value the overall fit and finish, as well as water resistance ratings. I live in the pacific northwest, so having an IP66 water rating, which only Apollo and a couple other manufacturers do, is basically essential if I don't want my internal components corroding in a few months.
Thank you! It's one of those things that nobody appreciates until they feel the difference or push the scooter a bit further, that's something which opens up the potential and comfort over time. No reason not to have it unless you just have no idea what you're creating, imo. I appreciate you expressing your priorities in context! I rarely hit speeds above 23mph since most of my riding is offroad. But I need power and dual motor, etc. And our priorities are different but they don't have to conflict. I think that's another important point to consider for the market. Thanks again! Hoping Apollo can help me out with the new Phantom or Pro models to test out.
Seems like a big sticking point are the brakes. I was a mountain biker once upon a time and I feel you on the brakes, however this scooter imo is meant for chilling in the bike lane, but your criticism at 4:20 is absolutely spot on and I completely agree. I am currently beta testing one of their new scooters and I intend to bring up the need for greatly improved brake lever adjustability and ergonomics. Being able to easily and confidently reach your brakes makes you safer and faster, increasing fun. What's not to like? Also, without getting into specifics, it very much looks like Apollo is redesigning their whole lineup to look like the Pro and Go. I strongly think some of your criticisms will be addressed in a future City Pro model I use one of their scooters (the Go) to get to and from work and it's been such a QoL improvement. For 98% of the time the regen braking is good enough, especially if you adjust it to 10/10 strength in the app, but it's really annoying that I need to use two or three fingers to actuate the brake. I've even ridden other scooters with much more pleasantly actuating drum brakes. Maybe Apollo needs to see if the internal routing can be less torturous or they need to lubricate the cable in the housing I also think that if you want to go actual off roading I'd just get an EMTB I absolutely don't trust something with tiny wheels that can be defeated by a particularly stout pebble. IMO electric scooters belong on the street and nowhere else For your thoughts on suspension perhaps there is theoretically room for improvement, but there is only so much space to fit suspension geometry and components into something that is more or less a thick skateboard deck with small wheels. An electric scooter's suspension will only ever be able to do so much in a small space with small wheels so close to the ground. I would reasonably expect scooter suspension to smooth out rough pavement and the occasional curb hop and that's it. Kind of related, but Animagraphs recently released a video about the internal workings of trophy trucks, and he went over just how different the suspension design is from a street truck. There is absolutely no way to fit suspension that allows trophy trucks to do what they do into the size constraints of a regular street truck. This is why I don't think scooter suspension really has anywhere much farther to go, but maybe someone will prove me wrong, but there is truly no reason why the braking situation is what it is Good video I agree that lots of scooter reviews leave out some good and proper criticism
U are so right about the handlebars and brake levers -- biggest most important structural error overall. Super stressing to the hands and wrists for the reasons outlined. I developed all kinds of tendon issues after riding this thing for a few months. I always had an issue with it -- however, I gotta say in general the ride quality and power was joy.. and yes on the regen brake -- relatively great stopping power.. and I agree with you on the customer service side -- they have been very co-operative.
Appreciate your comment! I wonder if you'd like the Teverun stuff way better, I do. The Fighter Mini is a price competitive option with way more features and properly positionable brakes. My code in the description gets you a bit of a discount as well. Let me know if you switch! The Apollo's sell pretty easily so you could get some money back.
Thank you! You super get it haha. Stopping is always important. Not riding off-road is no excuse for worse brakes (in any way) and on-road riders are likely to have higher average speeds! Thank goodness someone gets it.
Fair review. I just got mine a week ago and admittedly I’m in love with it. Compared to my last standard bread butter scooter this has crazy strong speed and torque. I agree the water/dirt flying right into the suspension is a pretty bad idea though. The price was hefty but I couldn’t find a single other e-scooter that looked or had the same feature set this scooter has. For one thing it’s IP66 water resistant which if you shop around is like super rare and living in the UK I 100% need this feature.
That makes sense! I think scooters are in a funny place. It's hard to find the right balance of compromises. I said this in the video but I really envy the Regen system Apollo has. That will be dearly missed on any scooter I go to from here. So nice to stop or at least do most of the slowing down without pads and recharging the battery. It's also so smooth and distributes well across both wheels at once with 1 lever. Something I think all scooters would be smart to have.
Very true! However, I still think that's not a reason that brake lever positioning can't be possible. That's just a basic safety and comfort feature to allow the user to best and most easily use the brakes. The lack of adjustability, as well as the stock positions of the levers, make it uncomfortable and suboptimal for many. The only reason it's not a problem is that users are not critical enough and that is largely the type of audience Apollo attracts Hence, the intense love/hate of the company. They could simply make the levers more easy to adjust and the more critical audience would respect that and the less critical audience wouldn't notice and it shouldn't affect the cost or reliability of the product at all. I hope this is something they adjust in the future. I still might get myself an Apollo Pro haha. But this will always upset me about it. What's your current scooter?
@@ZeroLoveScooters i have a mantis 10 pro from 2021, mantis 8 2021 dual motor, and an Apollo go I got last week...but think of returning it for the City. Just want a lil more power and range, love the smoothness
Really enjoyed your thoughts on the scooter. You did a great job of explaining what your expectations for scooters are and how you use them. I hope your channel grows because I really look forward to more of your opinions.
Awesome! Thanks for the sub. I'm glad I could bring awareness to some potential improvements but that it's ultimately not turning you off of the product. I hope you like it. I still think about that regenerative braking and miss it haha
@@BobJohnson-xg9ng If you're open for the suggestion, give it a little time on max (10) if it's safe to do so. You'll get the hang of the amount of pressure you need to apply. It's super soft if you let it build slower. "Plan your stops earlier, but make them later" is what grabbed me (so to speak). Like a giant rubber band - extremely smooth, too -but (at least on the Phantom V3 with the upgraded throttle/brake paddles) it's more about building the energy than applying it like a regular brake. I've used my hydraulics (I installed a cheap set of Nutt hydraulics soon after I bought it) maybe 3 or 4 times in the 6,500 kms I've put on my Phantom. Keep your regular brakes in good shape, test them a bit before every ride (my own ritual, I know I'm talking to an adult here), because regen are absolutely NOT good for emergency braking. You need real estate to build the energy. No scraping pads on the disk, no squealing, no replacing pads every 500kms for stopping my 200lb fat arse. I'm so impressed with dedicated regen, it's become as important to my next upgrade as the power/range. I was a hair from buying a Nami, but something told me to buy "local", but also that Apollo seem dedicated to being aggressive about the innovation, and I think Nami are selling the same scooter (though awesome) they did 2yrs ago. I am in no way affiliated with nor do I get anything discounted or free from Apollo. Just a customer.
I am retired and interested in getting my first scooter. Looking for the perfect scooter is like looking for a perfect job; in the end it's a matter of compromise. I see some products that look interesting from a feature standpoint, but I do have concerns about fire safety. At this point in my life I don't want to worry about my scooter possibly causing a fire. If I find a reasonably good "city scooter" with a safer battery chemistry, I would probably get one. A removable battery is a desirable feature as well. It would be nice to remove the battery when transporting and storing the scooter during the winter months, and to be able to have a secondary battery to use when the primary one is charging would be a bonus. I have an Ecoflow LFP based power station that I really like. Super fast charging makes it a pleasure to use. Thank you for the excellent review!
It really is! Congrats on retirement. Scooters are fun and a new love for me. Enough so that I started a channel! I'm not the most compromising guy so I am frustrated that my new favorite hobby comes with frustrations due to poor design choices. Interesting to see someone care a lot about battery chemistry and fire hazard. My current favorite scooter is a Teverun Fighter 11. I might get a Nami soon. The Fighter Mini is pretty compelling for many and more portable. Battery isn't instantly removable, though. What are some things you don't see yourself compromising on?
Nice vid, thanks for putting it together. I ride mountain bikes too and have the same criticism of most scooter handlebars and the level of available tech. I don't know why the scooter industry does not adopt a regular bike stem handlebar system. Then you could just go buy some handlebars. I have a NIU scooter and really like the sleek, stuff tucked away, look though. I'm wanting a full suspension scooter but they all have some sort of problem(s) to me, so I'm just sitting out for a bit and will wait till something arrives on the market. Apollo, as a brand is on my short list of scooters to consider, one of the reasons is the sleek look and the fact that they have some sort of DIY repair vids. Most of the brands have some stuff that looks really appealing but at the same time have stuff that is a deal breaker for me.
Hey, I appreciate your comment and we come from a similar place! I know about that good rockshox and fox stuff, even the marzocchi and manitou haha. I know about the good brakes, the XD Sram cassettes, etc. I was deep in that world. I can confidently say, that Teverun, is a great brand to check out. The suspension actually feels and compresses very similarly to how an actual nice mountain bike feels! Totally workable just a like a bike is. You can't change the stem BUT you can totally change the bars. They're all 31.8mm stuff. I have a code for them at my favorite retailer, super good people. Link is in the description. Just use my code: ZeroLove for whatever scooter. I suggest the Fighter 11 and have a video on it if you want to see a review proving everything I said.
Honestly I love my City 2024. Only thing I agree with you on is the shocks. I find my Segway Max G2 has better suspension. Also CS has been excellent for me also. This is not an offroad scooter so I think your expectations were too high. Thats said its top tier in its price range minus the suspension
Glad you enjoy it! Cool you also have a Max g2. I agree, it's not an off-road scooter. However, certain things to point out like my critiques on the brakes are pretty fair (if I may claim so) regardless of if off-road or not. The levers are very hard to pull and you could easily argue that people are likely to go faster on road than off road so it maybe even more critical on road. Personally, I see no excuses for terrible placement and positioning of brake levers, especially when the bite of the brake is already pretty weak. It's insult to injury to have them very hard to pull and poorly positioned with no room to adjust. But do they ever have that regen braking down to a T.
@@ZeroLoveScooters I like the brakes the regen is the best thing about the scooter. You can also tighten the drum breaks. I have no issues with the way it stops. Disc breaks way more issues, rotors, and pads. Plus scooter goes 52KMh the drums are fine for that speed. But each they own.
@@DeeBatch You'd probably like the brakes better if they pulled easier and were positioned more ergonomically. My point isn't so much about how people are going to hate that, many won't notice, but that most people would appreciate the difference if they could feel it side by side. But for sure, it'll be good enough for many. And the regen kicking in saves the weakness of the drum brakes. We'll see what I do. I'm still tempted. Especially if I can figure out a way around some of these quirks which annoy me so much. I like the idea of drum brakes, especially with the "rotors" not being exposed on the outside but I would prefer a smaller disc vs a drum, personally. I can live with drum but with the lack of lever positioning, which every other scooter has the option of, it's ridiculous not to allow for such a basic adjustment. That's my main point.
I have a Solar EQ, and I absolutely love it. It isn't fancy like an Apollo, there is no app, but it has hydraulic disc brakes, and better power for a lot less money.
Right on, Solar has some intriguing products for sure. That front end suspension is interesting. Not quite my style but it's an interesting idea for that price point.
@@ZeroLoveScooters yeah, the front suspension isn't great. I mostly ride on streets, so it's ok, but I still bottom it out sometimes. Still, for the price, I don't think you can beat the value.
Kevin? Haha who's Kevin. Is this the male Karen? You know, you should be thankful that people with a critical eye exist because those are the types to make the things you use on a daily basis. I'm calling out some obvious oversights and poor design choices so the products have a chance at being better, or, that the consumer can make better informed decisions with their purchases. But that's fine if you want to call me Kevin. Kevin isn't discouraged.
You are 100% CORRECT….Mine just broke at the stem 11/17/2024 brand new scooter going 19mph 😡 Going back just as soon as they send the shipping label 👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾
Dang bro sorry to hear that. Was it even on anything bumpy or something like that? Scooters should and could be better without any cost or much cost difference. I think it's more important, the faster the scooter goes. Sorry to hear.
@ my daughter is 15 years old 119 pounds and was going out the driveway, she stops before going into the street. It snapped, and she fell backwards off the scooter. ironically, she was in front of the doorbell camera and we have a recording.
Wow, that would be an epic youtube video upload haha oh my gosh. I will post that if you want to send it. Will prove my point about this scooter. I'm sorry that happened.
@ well I did post it on Apollo website but of course they took it down but all the pictures are on the Best Buy website under Apollo city Pro reviews…And dude I love that scooter,I also have the Apollo Go…But we are so freaked out about Apollo scooters now 😳
Great review! I 100% agree on the low power on the drum brakes. Even though it requires lower maintenance, you get zero power. Nearly caused me to crash on a friends scooter.
Dang, sorry to hear that. Yeah, I can accept the trade-offs but the design choices by Apollo do not help that. Yes, the regen is great and having it work side by side is helpful but at lower speeds, it's not helpful and the levers are very hard to pull and positioned weirdly so it's hard to grip or have enough leverage for a good pull Just positioning the levers better could make up for so much of that but it's not possible with this bar system. Too bad. That's a big miss for me on a design that could otherwise be pretty acceptable. Glad you didn't crash!
Good stuff. Your take is quite refreshing! Agree that the majority of reviews out there are not as in depth and/or critical as they should be. My guess is these folks have access to free trials and/or affiliations and don't want to upset the status quo.
Thank you! That may very well be the case. It could be that, it could be the market just being less critical inherently...I have another channel and my position is somewhat similar in that niche. Generally just not satisfied with how surface level things are but the more specific you get, the narrower your audience reach, right? But the scooter world is kind of young and more consumer oriented anyway. Maybe I can be a push in the direction to improve things. Would like to be :) that is my goal and role in the other world but I've suddenly become very captivated by scooters while also frustrated by where it's at. Time to get involved :) Thanks for commenting!
Interesting quality review. I have a number of Apollo scooters which I really enjoy. My use case is very different than yours. What is excellent about your review is that you clearly define what is important to you and why the scooter does not meet your needs. The points you make are all valid. For me I use my scooter as a car replacement. The suspension on the Pro for example is really good for good pavement surfaces. As good as my street motorcycle, I had a prototype Apollo City the brakes were set as you wish (on the other side of the throttle), I hated this, however I am a road only rider, and I see your point for rougher terrain. Oddly enough I think you could dig in there and swap the brake and throttle positions. I did on my prototype, to make it like yours. It’s a lot of work though. Same with the Pro. Scooters because of the basic geometry are less than Ideal for bumpy off road. The small wheels wheels are going to be problematic on obstacles, the balance is a challenge and the stresses on the steering tubes because of.its long length are an engineering nightmare. One would need to use a much larger diameter tube and completely rethink the folding mechanism. Also battery packs should be engineered differently for off road shock. Longer swing arms, and suspension etc. So many fundamental changes would really be needed, as well as inherent issues like the heavy motors are unsprung weight on a scooter. When people suggest E mountain bikes to you, they are not wrong. They have such a superior form factor for off road. Larger wheels, ability to have long suspension travel, mid drive (sprung weight) motors, short steering tubes. Yes it is a different form factor. An off road scooter is always going to be an engineering compromise. Also tire changes are nuts on scooters! You had not hit that problem yet. All that said, quality comments.
Thank you! Quality reply :) I will say a couple things. Scooter tire changes aren't so bad if you have quick connect motors. I agree with all the design compromises you state, especially the steering tube one. I also agree that the form factor of scooters isn't the ideal vehicle for off-roading but if you ride within the limits of the form factor, it's fine. I don't expect a scooter to ever handle something close to the limits of what a bike can do but I do think the ceiling can be pushed a bit more with some small changes/improvements. That is what I want to see happen. There's something about scooters I love so much. I got tired of bikes. I used to mountain bike. I did big crazy stuff a scooter probably never could but I have no itch to go back or get an e-bike. People need to understand that we don't always want to use the thing that is best suited for the job. Maybe you want to take your car off-roading. Well, what if people said you should really just buy a dune-buggy? Or get a longboard to commute when you're fixated on using a skateboard? I feel similarly about wanting to off-road on my scooter. I may end up getting an Apollo Pro! I'm very curious about it. Might fly to LA for a test ride first haha
@@ZeroLoveScooters The Apollo Pro is not going to be the best Apollo offering for your use case. Look at the just now pre-order Phantom 2 scooters. They have a conventional shock system front and back that will allow you some suspension customization, I believe standard sizing so you could even replace the stock units with something aftermarket if you desire. Both versions, standard and stellar have disk brakes with the latter being hydraulic. This in addition to the very well implemented regen braking system. What you wont get is the brake lever placement you want. Although as I have said, I think that it is possible to swap the positions to the outside of the throttles, but it will take some effort (I have done this on a City which my prototype unit had the brake levers the way you wanted them) I could have on my pro if desired. I had it apart last week adding a custom machined part between the throttle and brake assembly. The weight is a little less and the wheels have connectors so they can be removed from the scooter for servicing or tire changes. The 60V version will have lots more power, and as mentioned earlier Hydraulic dual piston brakes. Also the tires on the Pro are road optimized, the Phantom 2 scooters will be a bit more dual sport. Check out the Apollo website for some info. I love my Pro, but it is really improved paved road optimized. Which happens to be me intended use.
Nice, you added quick connect to the motors? That's something I think Apollo should absolutely have done but seems almost off-brand for them to make anything serviceable. I could appreciate a road scooter that can do light off-roading well. I wish the new Phantom had 12inch wheels but maybe that's a fixation I'm less and less hung up on. 11 is quite good. I wonder what the shock length on the new Phantom will be.
That you received good customer service from Apollo, is a complete anomaly. Apollo is largely clueless in most every phase of operating a scooter business. Thanks for your review and words to all of the wise who will steer clear of getting burned and disappointed by Apollo Scooters.
I have a Teverun fighter 11. Pretty happy with it but I'm still looking. Review coming soon. I just ordered a "skycore" one from Amazon that looks pretty good for the prices we'll see! Since this video, I have also tried that okai scooter but maybe you've seen my thoughts.
Your a racer buying to have xtreme fun, I have the City my first scooter used for simply commuting. (1) Rarely use the brake levers, so not an issue for me. (2) It would be very rare for the regen or throttle thumb levers to fail, they tested them 300,000 times, so replacing them if ever needed is at least doable. (3) Handlebar angle comments are interesting but I never thought " I wish they would make the angle better" but it is my first scooter. (4) Yes Customer service was very quick and knowledgeable. (5) 3 amp charger is above the industry norm. (6) I have attached a handlebar extension bar to mount accessories like my all in one (phone holder, charger, built in headlight, horn). Overall very happy with it and considering buying the dual motor City Pro, and using my current City as a spare scooter and later for spare parts if needed, because spare parts for any scooter brand seem expensive. Thanks for your thoughts on it.
@@ZeroLoveScooters Maybe have a look at the new Apollo Phantom 2.0, seems more your type of scooter than the City, but of course there are even more xtreme scooters out there if you like going off road, performing tricks.
Yeah the pro and new phantom would be the top choices for sure. Hope to try that pro soon and we'll see about trying the phantom. I think a few scooters out there would actually satisfy me quite well if I could just change a couple things that are on other scooters...frustrating. I will make a video of a dream scooter sometime just to show-case the details I think matter the most.
I have this one and love it. The regen breaks are awesome, like I use them 99% of the time, unless I wanna skid. I am so used to using the break peddle, it takes me a minute when I get on my bike to stop going for it to break and it's not there. The fat middle and squared shape of the handlebars annoy me with being a weird size so is harder to fit things to attach to for cameras and stuff.
I am doing my best to get that style of Regen on my other scooters. It honestly really sucks not having it. Apollo really shines from that feature alone but I like almost everything else about most other higher end scooters more. Quite frustrating. Will try that Punk scooter soon!
Good thoughts on the scooter market. Most people just new to this kind of transportation/hobby, even if they willing to pay extra for a premium product, and most manufacturers just put together someting that rolls and has some good sounding nunmbers. And i'm surprised on your Wolf King GTR opinion, although I haven't tried it yet, nor actual mountain biked, so yeah like this I don't know what to expect either. :s The whole user experience thing is almost like iphone vs. android or Bambu Lab vs. Voron, on the first you can't really change anything, the manufacturer polished the UX for you and that's it. On the latter you can customize everything and achieve anything if you know what you're doing. Different target. Although the steering bar is something that should be customizable at least in the configuator or at the Apollo dealer.
Thanks! Good point about the "good sounding numbers" that seems so true. It's brought up constantly when something costs more. Someone just rebuttals with price vs spec like it's that simple. It's true about the Wolf King stuff. Anyone coming from nice mountain bikes will know the difference. It's night and day, not even close. Unfortunately, the c-style suspension on an average priced scooter is likely much more comfortable and responsive and better performing in every way except the steering-rigidity that the dual crown brings in. And this isn't a fault of dual crown forks but rather this otherwise very cheaply made fork. It would probably cost an extra 1k to get a dual crown fork to feel anywhere near as good.
Isn't that a funny miss by Apollo? Even my hands are not long enough for proper positioning. If mine aren't, nobody's will be. So this is a poor design that forces everyone to make weird compromises as to how they grab the bars but the super casuals won't know the difference.
What do you ride now? What got you to like or try apollo in the first place? And yeah I get that, it's kind of a deal breaker for me too if I can't have my hands in a good spot to stop/go in the best way.
@@ZeroLoveScooters so I got the Apollo air first. And after a month needed more range. Then I went with the pro and lived with sore wrists and lack of acceleration for too long. I moved onto a remove cruiser S. then after that I got a Teverun fighter mini which gives the compact size. Insane speed and enough battery to last if I don’t drive like a maniac (usually I don’t)
Oh nice. so we're both on Teverun now. I think the Mini has a better folding setup than my fighter 11, which is nice in many ways but the hook/latch system is kind of dumb. They need to implement the design improvements from the mini to the fighter 11 and it would be much better. No reason they can't. Did the pro cause sore wrists for reasons like no lever positioning options and so on?
Nice 'critique'... like you said, it's a love/hate thing mostly with Apollo, but unlike fanboys or haters, you presented a fair selection of good and bad about it, and made it clear that it just isn't the scooter you're looking for, but might be right for others. I have the Pro and it isn't really an off-roader. More likely the outgoing, or even incoming Phantom might tick your boxes, disks, etc... but, that said, Apollo doesn't claim any of their scooters are meant for serious off-roading. I myself, love the Pro. First scooter I ever rode, not to mention bought. Got stolen a week ago and I had it back in less than 2 hours thanks to Connect+ (superior to airtag because it has its own cell connection... doesn't depend on other phones having to be nearby).
Thanks for a thoughtful comment! I will always try to be balanced and be honest about my perspective but also broaden it to make my observations relevant to the greater public so everyone can better decide for themselves. I really want to like the Pro. Still yet to try it. Pretty expensive just to try and I'm a ways form the LA area test center but maybe it'll happen soon. I like the idea of the Phantom but am saddened that the wheels aren't 12 inches like the Pro, despite it being a bit more off-road dedicated. Feels like step forward and then back haha. Very cool to know you got your scooter back and that service paid off! How'd it get stolen? Lock cut? Burglary?
I would love to see the scooters have more adjustability on the bars. I like and appreciate the internal wiring. I see why you do it. Maybe you can route the throttle cables externally and run it parallel to the brake cables and once it reaches inside the stem, you feed it up to the computer inside. That should work, right? Also, really appreciate your use of regen. I think it's the best.
The Phantom 2.0 might address some of your needs. It has larger tires(11x4), the handle bars are a different style, and it uses rotor brakes. Another thing they talk about is that the suspension springs are a standard size so you should be able to swap them with aftermarket options. The scooter isn't available for ordering until the 10th of October, and it sounds like it wont ship until Jan 2025. Thinking about ordering, but it would be a first scooter for me and it's probably going to come out around $2500. So far though, as long as the execution is there, it seems like the least amount of comprimise out there.
I might have to try! I am kind of sad it isn't 12" but 11" isn't bad. It's just when the Apollo pro is 12, you'd maybe hope the phantom could be too, ya know?
I must say that comparing the mountain bike industry (and bikes and technology) to the completely different scooter industry is not fair in any way. Why not complain that scooter wheels are as big as mountain bike wheels? Or why not complain that scooters don't have seats like mountain bikes. I think you do your comparisons within the same industry, within the same industry tech standards, within the same industry prices (scooters are WAY cheaper than high-end mountain bikes). And be sure to include engineering features versus price points and intended uses - you're comparing a city scooter on its off-road gravel-bouncing, mountain-biking feeling. Having said all that, you packed in a lot of feedback in your short video and did not replay all the usual specs and stuff (and we are all grateful for that, I'm sure...). Thank you for your work! (I won't be buying a City anytime soon...)
The criticism is fair because the suspension tech could be implemented on the scooters. It would be ridiculous to critique a scooter for not having bike wheels. I understand the differences which are relevant to the product and the areas where things can be improved. I would love to see scooters with 13" wheels more often and not too much heavier. It can be done! The Dualtron City is an example of this but they disappoint in many other ways. My main annoyances were not so much about the suspension on this scooter, I can accept it for what it is but the fender design does chuck a ton of dirt RIGHT into the springs. That shouldn't be excusable for a "city" scooter, right? I glossed over it but was making a point overall. My bigger complains were about the brakes, which is fair. Whether or not a scooter is for city or for dirt doesn't excuse poor design. A good city scooter isn't all that different from an off-road scooter. It's just that you can cheap out more on a city scooter because it will be less challenged, especially for suspension. However, city scooters might end up going faster than off-road scooters which makes my criticisms about brakes even more real. Thanks for your comment! I feel like some people are misinterpreting my knocks to be me putting too high of an expectation on scooters or this scooter specifically. It's not really that. It's more so like similar scooters in the same price range or less do this or that detail MUCH better. Or that this or that detail has no reason to be done this poorly or inconveniently. Maybe my presentation can have more disclaimers to make points more clear so one point isn't conflated to be another.
@ZeroLoveScooters keep in mind if your 6 foot or taller the Teveruns like the Kaabo's have low handlebars. I'm 6"2 so the extra height of the Nami scooters is essential. Also Teverun also use narrower decks and also only 65cm wide handlebars when they should be 70cms as a minimum.
Didn't know nami was a little taller. I am actually not feeling like it's small but I was considering getting slightly taller bars and it's nice to be able to do that.
I just started riding scooters this and I rode mountain bike all my life too and I will say scooter riding is FUN DIFFERENT BUT FUN however 2 thing I saw as an issue was the suspension it is not comfortable when riding over broken roads and nd I actively avoid bunt portions other said there is always going to be something wrong with anything I have heard people complaining about teslas and lambos etc
Nice! Yeah, the dual motors is what gets me. That is unique from bikes. You know...I just tried my first scooter that had suspension which felt about as nice as a high end mountain bike. Most scooters, even "nice" ones, feel so bad. It's the Teverun Fighter 11, and I bought one. I'll chat about it soon. You have smaller wheels and less travel on a scooter than you do a bike but it should still feel about as nice as a mountain bike can, right?
Very true! I wasn't projecting the idea of an off-road scooter too much on this, I hope. I was just seeing this scooter for what it was and pointing out ways in which it could/should be better because these changes would make it better for everyone without being more expensive or difficult to implement.
My drum brakes stop on a dime but I don't even use them . Regen mostly. You can adjust the position of brake levers , throttle, and regen. You didn't research well enough for your needs . Phantom would have been better for you.
I got the city because it was more easily returnable. You can only slightly adjust the angle of the levers! Apollo also confirms this. Have you actually tried adjusting them? Like moving them left or right a few inches? You literally can't. I don't know why you'd say you can. Phantom likely, yes, they contacted me about the new one coming out with 11" wheels. Maybe I will test it out. I wasn't interested in the last version. Apollo makes some really frustrating decisions. That scooter also misses the mark pretty hard in a few ways but a couple things are better.
@ZeroLoveScooters The brake levers , throttle, and regen I adjusted vertical to my preference. Horizontal change not a deal breaker for me . The regen stops me fast enough I rarely use the brake levers.
I'm glad that's enough for you! But do consider that by not having the option to adjust it horizontally is going to be a problem for many and is a very common complaint. Whereas there really isn't an advantage to just not having that ability. It's a drawback. You just happen to not care. It's like if all shirts by one brand were only made in a size medium and you said "it fits me just fine"
@ZeroLoveScooters It may very well be possible to adjust the levers horizontally. I didn't try because it really doesn't matter that much. You sound like one of those pixel counters that complains about everything. And returns things because they don't research a product well enough beforehand.
Nah, it's something that nearly every scooter and bike has as an option because it maximizes fit across all hand sizes and riding styles. You are actually simply not critical enough. Your kind of opinions are the kind that hold the scooter market back and are also the reason why Apollo gets so much hate from more serious scooter riders. I'm trying to enlighten people to see what the differences are. You can't switch your bars. You can't adjust your brake levers horizontally. I'm glad you are happy with the scooter! Don't get me wrong. But you can't just dismiss the merit in having something that is so standard across every scooter and bike except Apollo. Especially at this price point. Trust me, you just don't know the difference between having something truly adjustable and something so limited in that way. I can brake on my scooter with 1 finger very comfortably. You probably can't because those levers are moved so far towards the end of the bar that you need like 3 fingers on it. Try doing some real riding with 3 fingers on the brake lever and only 2 left to actually hold onto the bar. It's a big difference for REAL riders. That's the difference here.
Nami Klima must be several times better. Also, Teverun. I have a code for those as I think it's a more competitive scooter, actually. Very on par with Nami but the app allows more customization and the scooters can be folded properly. Also, the site I'm affiliated with does offer an actual return policy. Most don't at all. The rival to this or the Klima from Teverun would be the Fighter Mini. I just rode one and will review it soon. Super nice suspension, so much better than the Apollo. Faster, more range, I actually can't really think of a single detail that isn't better! Code: ZeroLove website is superscoots.
Apollo Scooters is an asphalt only scooter company with a near zero performance mtbing background, so they dont even know what their doing wrong. MTBing solved most of scootering problems 10 years ago. Especially for offroading.
Maybe true. I hope someone comes in and does all this stuff better. It's only asphalt because it's poor for off-road. Not because it's specialized for asphalt but moreso limited to it.
I saw! Definitely a little tempting. I would love to see bigger wheels on a scooter like that, though. Is the brake/throttle position more adjustable on Phantoms?
I appreciate the time, but he is nit picking and complaining a lot. It's not an "off road" scooter. Maybe you need to purchase a four wheel drive ATV? The reviews I watched show no issues with the drum brakes - NO maintenance. You purchased a scooter without doing research; you wanted it - thinking it was something it's not.
Hey, thanks for watching! I think my critiques are fair. The drum brakes are objectively very weak. It's not really an excuse to have a weak brake regardless of if it's a road or off-road scooter. Furthermore, the critiques about the lever positioning are quite real. I think it's ridiculous to think proper brake lever positioning is something you should only expect from a true off-road scooter. It's just something that should be standard on any scooter. I didn't project the expectations I had of an off-road scooter onto a road scooter. Rather, I explained where I am coming from and see areas that are relevant for the kind of scooter this is despite that. No interest in ATV's. Many road scooters are actually better in many regards on and off-road around this price-point BUT lack the regen that Apollo has. My whole point is that the main redeeming quality is the regen but it's mind-blowing how many other details Apollo misses and how many other scooters miss the one thing Apollo gets right. I would love to see a scooter just do both well!
Don’t buy a non off-road scooter and expect better. City - it’s in the name of it. Brake handle- I never even use mine. I just use the regen brakes. I honestly don’t ever touch the brakes.
I didn't! Also, many road scooters are better off-road scooters than this. That's kind of the point. It's fine and great that you don't use the brakes but do consider that a high enough speed scooter should have better real stopping power. My point is that it could have both but it only has 1.
Bottomline, the scooter(s) doesn’t fit you desire or needs. So move on to something that does. No need for such a negative, whiney rant about what many have found to be a wonderful ride. Move on. I wish you luck with your next acquisition. 👍
Hey! I tried to be honest about where it shines. I'm not even hating on it. It could be better and still be what it is. I really admire the Regen as well. Nobody seems to have it down like that but I might test that punk scooter soon and see what's up.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you guys appreciate the honesty here, something I will always upkeep :)
Btw here is a video of my favorite scooter currently! ruclips.net/video/5Db8cxSvX_E/видео.html
Thank you!! I’m glad somebody finally has come out and said it. You’re spot on about the “lower bar” set by scooter manufactures. There are other scooter influencers here on RUclips that would rate Apollo as one of the best scooters and scooter company on earth. Yet there is nothing in their review that brings to light the issue of the one trick handlebar setup. I appreciate your honesty. Keep the reviews coming.
Thank you! Haha yeah, I feel ya, the bar is set low kind of by everybody. The manufacturers remain unchallenged because everyone's expectations are so low! But nobody is really trying to raise the bar (pun not intended) and if they are, they struggle to get much attention or maybe they really blow it in some other way.
Still baffling how nobody else implements that regen feature as well! That's the one thing they could take from Apollo. Incredibly frustrating.
Honestly, this is the best critical review of Apollo scooters that I've seen. I've done some but not a ton of mountain biking. I agree with you that the bar for suspension expectations is much lower with scooters compared to mountain bikes. I bet in the long future, we might start to see more innovation with aftermarket suspension mods once the scooter industry matures more.
For me, I don't imagine I will be doing hardly any off road riding in my scooter, and it will be mainly used as a replacement for a car in commuting. As such, I definitely value the overall fit and finish, as well as water resistance ratings. I live in the pacific northwest, so having an IP66 water rating, which only Apollo and a couple other manufacturers do, is basically essential if I don't want my internal components corroding in a few months.
Thank you! It's one of those things that nobody appreciates until they feel the difference or push the scooter a bit further, that's something which opens up the potential and comfort over time. No reason not to have it unless you just have no idea what you're creating, imo.
I appreciate you expressing your priorities in context! I rarely hit speeds above 23mph since most of my riding is offroad. But I need power and dual motor, etc. And our priorities are different but they don't have to conflict. I think that's another important point to consider for the market.
Thanks again! Hoping Apollo can help me out with the new Phantom or Pro models to test out.
I absolutely love mine. Me and my boyfriend both bought the city 2024 and we could not be happier with the bill quality design and performance.
I'm glad to hear!
Seems like a big sticking point are the brakes. I was a mountain biker once upon a time and I feel you on the brakes, however this scooter imo is meant for chilling in the bike lane, but your criticism at 4:20 is absolutely spot on and I completely agree. I am currently beta testing one of their new scooters and I intend to bring up the need for greatly improved brake lever adjustability and ergonomics. Being able to easily and confidently reach your brakes makes you safer and faster, increasing fun. What's not to like? Also, without getting into specifics, it very much looks like Apollo is redesigning their whole lineup to look like the Pro and Go. I strongly think some of your criticisms will be addressed in a future City Pro model
I use one of their scooters (the Go) to get to and from work and it's been such a QoL improvement. For 98% of the time the regen braking is good enough, especially if you adjust it to 10/10 strength in the app, but it's really annoying that I need to use two or three fingers to actuate the brake. I've even ridden other scooters with much more pleasantly actuating drum brakes. Maybe Apollo needs to see if the internal routing can be less torturous or they need to lubricate the cable in the housing
I also think that if you want to go actual off roading I'd just get an EMTB I absolutely don't trust something with tiny wheels that can be defeated by a particularly stout pebble. IMO electric scooters belong on the street and nowhere else
For your thoughts on suspension perhaps there is theoretically room for improvement, but there is only so much space to fit suspension geometry and components into something that is more or less a thick skateboard deck with small wheels. An electric scooter's suspension will only ever be able to do so much in a small space with small wheels so close to the ground. I would reasonably expect scooter suspension to smooth out rough pavement and the occasional curb hop and that's it. Kind of related, but Animagraphs recently released a video about the internal workings of trophy trucks, and he went over just how different the suspension design is from a street truck. There is absolutely no way to fit suspension that allows trophy trucks to do what they do into the size constraints of a regular street truck. This is why I don't think scooter suspension really has anywhere much farther to go, but maybe someone will prove me wrong, but there is truly no reason why the braking situation is what it is
Good video I agree that lots of scooter reviews leave out some good and proper criticism
U are so right about the handlebars and brake levers -- biggest most important structural error overall. Super stressing to the hands and wrists for the reasons outlined. I developed all kinds of tendon issues after riding this thing for a few months. I always had an issue with it -- however, I gotta say in general the ride quality and power was joy.. and yes on the regen brake -- relatively great stopping power.. and I agree with you on the customer service side -- they have been very co-operative.
Appreciate your comment! I wonder if you'd like the Teverun stuff way better, I do. The Fighter Mini is a price competitive option with way more features and properly positionable brakes. My code in the description gets you a bit of a discount as well. Let me know if you switch! The Apollo's sell pretty easily so you could get some money back.
Great thoughts about the brakes. Even for riders that don't push their scooter, stopping is critical for large hills or emergencies. Keep it up.
Thank you! You super get it haha. Stopping is always important. Not riding off-road is no excuse for worse brakes (in any way) and on-road riders are likely to have higher average speeds!
Thank goodness someone gets it.
Fair review. I just got mine a week ago and admittedly I’m in love with it. Compared to my last standard bread butter scooter this has crazy strong speed and torque. I agree the water/dirt flying right into the suspension is a pretty bad idea though. The price was hefty but I couldn’t find a single other e-scooter that looked or had the same feature set this scooter has. For one thing it’s IP66 water resistant which if you shop around is like super rare and living in the UK I 100% need this feature.
That makes sense! I think scooters are in a funny place. It's hard to find the right balance of compromises. I said this in the video but I really envy the Regen system Apollo has. That will be dearly missed on any scooter I go to from here. So nice to stop or at least do most of the slowing down without pads and recharging the battery. It's also so smooth and distributes well across both wheels at once with 1 lever.
Something I think all scooters would be smart to have.
Appreciate the takes...my thoughts are, its called a City for a reason, not off road aggressive riding 👍🏼
Very true! However, I still think that's not a reason that brake lever positioning can't be possible. That's just a basic safety and comfort feature to allow the user to best and most easily use the brakes. The lack of adjustability, as well as the stock positions of the levers, make it uncomfortable and suboptimal for many. The only reason it's not a problem is that users are not critical enough and that is largely the type of audience Apollo attracts
Hence, the intense love/hate of the company. They could simply make the levers more easy to adjust and the more critical audience would respect that and the less critical audience wouldn't notice and it shouldn't affect the cost or reliability of the product at all.
I hope this is something they adjust in the future. I still might get myself an Apollo Pro haha. But this will always upset me about it.
What's your current scooter?
@@ZeroLoveScooters i agree
@@ZeroLoveScooters i have a mantis 10 pro from 2021, mantis 8 2021 dual motor, and an Apollo go I got last week...but think of returning it for the City. Just want a lil more power and range, love the smoothness
@@ZeroLoveScooters in all my research the past week I think you would like a hybrid off roader like a Kukirin g2 master/ausom leopard pro
@@ZeroLoveScooters i eventually want the new Phantom but maybe I'll wait till ver 2 of V2
Really enjoyed your thoughts on the scooter. You did a great job of explaining what your expectations for scooters are and how you use them. I hope your channel grows because I really look forward to more of your opinions.
Thank you! More to come soon :)
Thanks for sharing - thinking about getting an Apollo city 2024, after your review I still think it might be good for me. Subscribed
Awesome! Thanks for the sub. I'm glad I could bring awareness to some potential improvements but that it's ultimately not turning you off of the product. I hope you like it. I still think about that regenerative braking and miss it haha
Wait, you can adjust the regen break from the app. You can have it weak or strong. That's what i do on my pro. Those breaks are pretty strong.
Yep, I have mine on highest - I'm 5'9" + 195lbs, and find the regen brakes incredible. Only thing they're not good for is emergency braking.
Yes you can adjust. I actually love the Regen on Apollo. Others just aren't implementing it right.
I set my regen brake fairly weak. I think around 4 out of 10. It was really jerky at the high settings. I never really use the mech brakes at all.
@@BobJohnson-xg9ng If you're open for the suggestion, give it a little time on max (10) if it's safe to do so. You'll get the hang of the amount of pressure you need to apply. It's super soft if you let it build slower. "Plan your stops earlier, but make them later" is what grabbed me (so to speak). Like a giant rubber band - extremely smooth, too -but (at least on the Phantom V3 with the upgraded throttle/brake paddles) it's more about building the energy than applying it like a regular brake.
I've used my hydraulics (I installed a cheap set of Nutt hydraulics soon after I bought it) maybe 3 or 4 times in the 6,500 kms I've put on my Phantom.
Keep your regular brakes in good shape, test them a bit before every ride (my own ritual, I know I'm talking to an adult here), because regen are absolutely NOT good for emergency braking. You need real estate to build the energy. No scraping pads on the disk, no squealing, no replacing pads every 500kms for stopping my 200lb fat arse. I'm so impressed with dedicated regen, it's become as important to my next upgrade as the power/range. I was a hair from buying a Nami, but something told me to buy "local", but also that Apollo seem dedicated to being aggressive about the innovation, and I think Nami are selling the same scooter (though awesome) they did 2yrs ago. I am in no way affiliated with nor do I get anything discounted or free from Apollo. Just a customer.
I am retired and interested in getting my first scooter. Looking for the perfect scooter is like looking for a perfect job; in the end it's a matter of compromise. I see some products that look interesting from a feature standpoint, but I do have concerns about fire safety. At this point in my life I don't want to worry about my scooter possibly causing a fire. If I find a reasonably good "city scooter" with a safer battery chemistry, I would probably get one. A removable battery is a desirable feature as well. It would be nice to remove the battery when transporting and storing the scooter during the winter months, and to be able to have a secondary battery to use when the primary one is charging would be a bonus. I have an Ecoflow LFP based power station that I really like. Super fast charging makes it a pleasure to use. Thank you for the excellent review!
It really is! Congrats on retirement. Scooters are fun and a new love for me. Enough so that I started a channel! I'm not the most compromising guy so I am frustrated that my new favorite hobby comes with frustrations due to poor design choices.
Interesting to see someone care a lot about battery chemistry and fire hazard.
My current favorite scooter is a Teverun Fighter 11. I might get a Nami soon. The Fighter Mini is pretty compelling for many and more portable.
Battery isn't instantly removable, though.
What are some things you don't see yourself compromising on?
Nice vid, thanks for putting it together. I ride mountain bikes too and have the same criticism of most scooter handlebars and the level of available tech. I don't know why the scooter industry does not adopt a regular bike stem handlebar system. Then you could just go buy some handlebars. I have a NIU scooter and really like the sleek, stuff tucked away, look though. I'm wanting a full suspension scooter but they all have some sort of problem(s) to me, so I'm just sitting out for a bit and will wait till something arrives on the market. Apollo, as a brand is on my short list of scooters to consider, one of the reasons is the sleek look and the fact that they have some sort of DIY repair vids. Most of the brands have some stuff that looks really appealing but at the same time have stuff that is a deal breaker for me.
Hey, I appreciate your comment and we come from a similar place! I know about that good rockshox and fox stuff, even the marzocchi and manitou haha. I know about the good brakes, the XD Sram cassettes, etc. I was deep in that world.
I can confidently say, that Teverun, is a great brand to check out. The suspension actually feels and compresses very similarly to how an actual nice mountain bike feels! Totally workable just a like a bike is. You can't change the stem BUT you can totally change the bars. They're all 31.8mm stuff.
I have a code for them at my favorite retailer, super good people. Link is in the description. Just use my code: ZeroLove for whatever scooter. I suggest the Fighter 11 and have a video on it if you want to see a review proving everything I said.
@@ZeroLoveScooters Thanks for the info!
Honestly I love my City 2024. Only thing I agree with you on is the shocks. I find my Segway Max G2 has better suspension. Also CS has been excellent for me also. This is not an offroad scooter so I think your expectations were too high. Thats said its top tier in its price range minus the suspension
Glad you enjoy it! Cool you also have a Max g2. I agree, it's not an off-road scooter. However, certain things to point out like my critiques on the brakes are pretty fair (if I may claim so) regardless of if off-road or not. The levers are very hard to pull and you could easily argue that people are likely to go faster on road than off road so it maybe even more critical on road.
Personally, I see no excuses for terrible placement and positioning of brake levers, especially when the bite of the brake is already pretty weak. It's insult to injury to have them very hard to pull and poorly positioned with no room to adjust.
But do they ever have that regen braking down to a T.
@@ZeroLoveScooters I like the brakes the regen is the best thing about the scooter. You can also tighten the drum breaks. I have no issues with the way it stops. Disc breaks way more issues, rotors, and pads. Plus scooter goes 52KMh the drums are fine for that speed. But each they own.
@@DeeBatch You'd probably like the brakes better if they pulled easier and were positioned more ergonomically. My point isn't so much about how people are going to hate that, many won't notice, but that most people would appreciate the difference if they could feel it side by side.
But for sure, it'll be good enough for many. And the regen kicking in saves the weakness of the drum brakes.
We'll see what I do. I'm still tempted. Especially if I can figure out a way around some of these quirks which annoy me so much.
I like the idea of drum brakes, especially with the "rotors" not being exposed on the outside but I would prefer a smaller disc vs a drum, personally. I can live with drum but with the lack of lever positioning, which every other scooter has the option of, it's ridiculous not to allow for such a basic adjustment. That's my main point.
Thank you, you have changed my mind from purchasing this scooter.
Happy to help! Anything else you're thinking of?
I have a Solar EQ, and I absolutely love it. It isn't fancy like an Apollo, there is no app, but it has hydraulic disc brakes, and better power for a lot less money.
Right on, Solar has some intriguing products for sure. That front end suspension is interesting. Not quite my style but it's an interesting idea for that price point.
@@ZeroLoveScooters yeah, the front suspension isn't great. I mostly ride on streets, so it's ok, but I still bottom it out sometimes. Still, for the price, I don't think you can beat the value.
nice assessment!
The handlebars on the Apollo GO are perfect!
Noted, I'm glad you like them.
Thanks for your review Kevin.
Kevin? Haha who's Kevin. Is this the male Karen? You know, you should be thankful that people with a critical eye exist because those are the types to make the things you use on a daily basis. I'm calling out some obvious oversights and poor design choices so the products have a chance at being better, or, that the consumer can make better informed decisions with their purchases.
But that's fine if you want to call me Kevin. Kevin isn't discouraged.
You are 100% CORRECT….Mine just broke at the stem 11/17/2024 brand new scooter going 19mph 😡 Going back just as soon as they send the shipping label 👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾
Dang bro sorry to hear that. Was it even on anything bumpy or something like that? Scooters should and could be better without any cost or much cost difference. I think it's more important, the faster the scooter goes.
Sorry to hear.
@ my daughter is 15 years old 119 pounds and was going out the driveway, she stops before going into the street. It snapped, and she fell backwards off the scooter. ironically, she was in front of the doorbell camera and we have a recording.
Wow, that would be an epic youtube video upload haha oh my gosh. I will post that if you want to send it. Will prove my point about this scooter. I'm sorry that happened.
@ well I did post it on Apollo website but of course they took it down but all the pictures are on the Best Buy website under Apollo city Pro reviews…And dude I love that scooter,I also have the Apollo Go…But we are so freaked out about Apollo scooters now 😳
You're welcome to send the pic to me and I'll include it :) they won't be able to delete my video.
Great review! I 100% agree on the low power on the drum brakes. Even though it requires lower maintenance, you get zero power. Nearly caused me to crash on a friends scooter.
Dang, sorry to hear that. Yeah, I can accept the trade-offs but the design choices by Apollo do not help that. Yes, the regen is great and having it work side by side is helpful but at lower speeds, it's not helpful and the levers are very hard to pull and positioned weirdly so it's hard to grip or have enough leverage for a good pull
Just positioning the levers better could make up for so much of that but it's not possible with this bar system. Too bad. That's a big miss for me on a design that could otherwise be pretty acceptable.
Glad you didn't crash!
The light (I have City Pro 2023) is totally useless. How come something that costs $1600 have a usable headlight on it?
That would be too much to ask. Gotta pay at least 2500 for a usable headlight!
Good stuff. Your take is quite refreshing! Agree that the majority of reviews out there are not as in depth and/or critical as they should be. My guess is these folks have access to free trials and/or affiliations and don't want to upset the status quo.
Thank you! That may very well be the case. It could be that, it could be the market just being less critical inherently...I have another channel and my position is somewhat similar in that niche.
Generally just not satisfied with how surface level things are but the more specific you get, the narrower your audience reach, right? But the scooter world is kind of young and more consumer oriented anyway. Maybe I can be a push in the direction to improve things. Would like to be :) that is my goal and role in the other world but I've suddenly become very captivated by scooters while also frustrated by where it's at.
Time to get involved :)
Thanks for commenting!
Interesting quality review. I have a number of Apollo scooters which I really enjoy. My use case is very different than yours. What is excellent about your review is that you clearly define what is important to you and why the scooter does not meet your needs. The points you make are all valid. For me I use my scooter as a car replacement. The suspension on the Pro for example is really good for good pavement surfaces. As good as my street motorcycle, I had a prototype Apollo City the brakes were set as you wish (on the other side of the throttle), I hated this, however I am a road only rider, and I see your point for rougher terrain. Oddly enough I think you could dig in there and swap the brake and throttle positions. I did on my prototype, to make it like yours. It’s a lot of work though. Same with the Pro. Scooters because of the basic geometry are less than Ideal for bumpy off road. The small wheels wheels are going to be problematic on obstacles, the balance is a challenge and the stresses on the steering tubes because of.its long length are an engineering nightmare. One would need to use a much larger diameter tube and completely rethink the folding mechanism. Also battery packs should be engineered differently for off road shock. Longer swing arms, and suspension etc. So many fundamental changes would really be needed, as well as inherent issues like the heavy motors are unsprung weight on a scooter. When people suggest E mountain bikes to you, they are not wrong. They have such a superior form factor for off road. Larger wheels, ability to have long suspension travel, mid drive (sprung weight) motors, short steering tubes. Yes it is a different form factor. An off road scooter is always going to be an engineering compromise. Also tire changes are nuts on scooters! You had not hit that problem yet. All that said, quality comments.
Thank you! Quality reply :)
I will say a couple things. Scooter tire changes aren't so bad if you have quick connect motors. I agree with all the design compromises you state, especially the steering tube one. I also agree that the form factor of scooters isn't the ideal vehicle for off-roading but if you ride within the limits of the form factor, it's fine. I don't expect a scooter to ever handle something close to the limits of what a bike can do but I do think the ceiling can be pushed a bit more with some small changes/improvements. That is what I want to see happen.
There's something about scooters I love so much. I got tired of bikes. I used to mountain bike. I did big crazy stuff a scooter probably never could but I have no itch to go back or get an e-bike.
People need to understand that we don't always want to use the thing that is best suited for the job. Maybe you want to take your car off-roading. Well, what if people said you should really just buy a dune-buggy?
Or get a longboard to commute when you're fixated on using a skateboard? I feel similarly about wanting to off-road on my scooter.
I may end up getting an Apollo Pro! I'm very curious about it. Might fly to LA for a test ride first haha
@@ZeroLoveScooters The Apollo Pro is not going to be the best Apollo offering for your use case. Look at the just now pre-order Phantom 2 scooters. They have a conventional shock system front and back that will allow you some suspension customization, I believe standard sizing so you could even replace the stock units with something aftermarket if you desire. Both versions, standard and stellar have disk brakes with the latter being hydraulic. This in addition to the very well implemented regen braking system. What you wont get is the brake lever placement you want. Although as I have said, I think that it is possible to swap the positions to the outside of the throttles, but it will take some effort (I have done this on a City which my prototype unit had the brake levers the way you wanted them) I could have on my pro if desired. I had it apart last week adding a custom machined part between the throttle and brake assembly. The weight is a little less and the wheels have connectors so they can be removed from the scooter for servicing or tire changes. The 60V version will have lots more power, and as mentioned earlier Hydraulic dual piston brakes. Also the tires on the Pro are road optimized, the Phantom 2 scooters will be a bit more dual sport. Check out the Apollo website for some info. I love my Pro, but it is really improved paved road optimized. Which happens to be me intended use.
Nice, you added quick connect to the motors? That's something I think Apollo should absolutely have done but seems almost off-brand for them to make anything serviceable.
I could appreciate a road scooter that can do light off-roading well. I wish the new Phantom had 12inch wheels but maybe that's a fixation I'm less and less hung up on. 11 is quite good. I wonder what the shock length on the new Phantom will be.
That you received good customer service from Apollo, is a complete anomaly. Apollo is largely clueless in most every phase of operating a scooter business. Thanks for your review and words to all of the wise who will steer clear of getting burned and disappointed by Apollo Scooters.
I'll definitely update if things are poor in the future. It could be different if I have a real problem. I understand that.
if APOLLO doesn't provide good customer service then NO scooter company does
What are you going to try next?
I have a Teverun fighter 11. Pretty happy with it but I'm still looking. Review coming soon. I just ordered a "skycore" one from Amazon that looks pretty good for the prices we'll see!
Since this video, I have also tried that okai scooter but maybe you've seen my thoughts.
Regen is all I use. 99.8% of the time.
I would too on that scooter. Still tempted to get a pro. What do you ride?
Your a racer buying to have xtreme fun, I have the City my first scooter used for simply commuting. (1) Rarely use the brake levers, so not an issue for me. (2) It would be very rare for the regen or throttle thumb levers to fail, they tested them 300,000 times, so replacing them if ever needed is at least doable. (3) Handlebar angle comments are interesting but I never thought " I wish they would make the angle better" but it is my first scooter. (4) Yes Customer service was very quick and knowledgeable. (5) 3 amp charger is above the industry norm. (6) I have attached a handlebar extension bar to mount accessories like my all in one (phone holder, charger, built in headlight, horn). Overall very happy with it and considering buying the dual motor City Pro, and using my current City as a spare scooter and later for spare parts if needed, because spare parts for any scooter brand seem expensive. Thanks for your thoughts on it.
Hey thanks for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate you relating your experience with it to my video.
@@ZeroLoveScooters Maybe have a look at the new Apollo Phantom 2.0, seems more your type of scooter than the City, but of course there are even more xtreme scooters out there if you like going off road, performing tricks.
Yeah the pro and new phantom would be the top choices for sure. Hope to try that pro soon and we'll see about trying the phantom.
I think a few scooters out there would actually satisfy me quite well if I could just change a couple things that are on other scooters...frustrating. I will make a video of a dream scooter sometime just to show-case the details I think matter the most.
I have this one and love it. The regen breaks are awesome, like I use them 99% of the time, unless I wanna skid. I am so used to using the break peddle, it takes me a minute when I get on my bike to stop going for it to break and it's not there. The fat middle and squared shape of the handlebars annoy me with being a weird size so is harder to fit things to attach to for cameras and stuff.
I am doing my best to get that style of Regen on my other scooters. It honestly really sucks not having it. Apollo really shines from that feature alone but I like almost everything else about most other higher end scooters more. Quite frustrating. Will try that Punk scooter soon!
Good thoughts on the scooter market. Most people just new to this kind of transportation/hobby, even if they willing to pay extra for a premium product, and most manufacturers just put together someting that rolls and has some good sounding nunmbers. And i'm surprised on your Wolf King GTR opinion, although I haven't tried it yet, nor actual mountain biked, so yeah like this I don't know what to expect either. :s
The whole user experience thing is almost like iphone vs. android or Bambu Lab vs. Voron, on the first you can't really change anything, the manufacturer polished the UX for you and that's it. On the latter you can customize everything and achieve anything if you know what you're doing. Different target. Although the steering bar is something that should be customizable at least in the configuator or at the Apollo dealer.
Thanks! Good point about the "good sounding numbers" that seems so true. It's brought up constantly when something costs more. Someone just rebuttals with price vs spec like it's that simple.
It's true about the Wolf King stuff. Anyone coming from nice mountain bikes will know the difference. It's night and day, not even close. Unfortunately, the c-style suspension on an average priced scooter is likely much more comfortable and responsive and better performing in every way except the steering-rigidity that the dual crown brings in.
And this isn't a fault of dual crown forks but rather this otherwise very cheaply made fork. It would probably cost an extra 1k to get a dual crown fork to feel anywhere near as good.
I sit my scooter for more than a year in the garage and turned it on yesterday the battery remains full.
One of the best reviews ever made
Haha much appreciated :)
You hit the nail on the head with those damn handle bars. How long do they think human thumbs are? It’s so far from the actual handle !!!!!!!
Isn't that a funny miss by Apollo? Even my hands are not long enough for proper positioning. If mine aren't, nobody's will be. So this is a poor design that forces everyone to make weird compromises as to how they grab the bars but the super casuals won't know the difference.
@@ZeroLoveScooters i always wanted the thin throttle to to just extend longer. I had to give up 2 apollos and sold them because of that
What do you ride now? What got you to like or try apollo in the first place?
And yeah I get that, it's kind of a deal breaker for me too if I can't have my hands in a good spot to stop/go in the best way.
@@ZeroLoveScooters so I got the Apollo air first. And after a month needed more range. Then I went with the pro and lived with sore wrists and lack of acceleration for too long. I moved onto a remove cruiser S. then after that I got a Teverun fighter mini which gives the compact size. Insane speed and enough battery to last if I don’t drive like a maniac (usually I don’t)
Oh nice. so we're both on Teverun now. I think the Mini has a better folding setup than my fighter 11, which is nice in many ways but the hook/latch system is kind of dumb. They need to implement the design improvements from the mini to the fighter 11 and it would be much better. No reason they can't.
Did the pro cause sore wrists for reasons like no lever positioning options and so on?
You definitely need to try out the Nan robot N7, that would fit you perfectly with the type of riding you mentioned that you do.
Is it the LS7? I see an N6 as well. Lmk which one for sure and I'll double check!
Nice 'critique'... like you said, it's a love/hate thing mostly with Apollo, but unlike fanboys or haters, you presented a fair selection of good and bad about it, and made it clear that it just isn't the scooter you're looking for, but might be right for others.
I have the Pro and it isn't really an off-roader. More likely the outgoing, or even incoming Phantom might tick your boxes, disks, etc... but, that said, Apollo doesn't claim any of their scooters are meant for serious off-roading.
I myself, love the Pro. First scooter I ever rode, not to mention bought.
Got stolen a week ago and I had it back in less than 2 hours thanks to Connect+ (superior to airtag because it has its own cell connection... doesn't depend on other phones having to be nearby).
Thanks for a thoughtful comment! I will always try to be balanced and be honest about my perspective but also broaden it to make my observations relevant to the greater public so everyone can better decide for themselves.
I really want to like the Pro. Still yet to try it. Pretty expensive just to try and I'm a ways form the LA area test center but maybe it'll happen soon.
I like the idea of the Phantom but am saddened that the wheels aren't 12 inches like the Pro, despite it being a bit more off-road dedicated. Feels like step forward and then back haha.
Very cool to know you got your scooter back and that service paid off! How'd it get stolen? Lock cut? Burglary?
Hey! Thanks for the valuable feedback, we will work on it!
I would love to see the scooters have more adjustability on the bars. I like and appreciate the internal wiring. I see why you do it. Maybe you can route the throttle cables externally and run it parallel to the brake cables and once it reaches inside the stem, you feed it up to the computer inside. That should work, right?
Also, really appreciate your use of regen. I think it's the best.
The Phantom 2.0 might address some of your needs. It has larger tires(11x4), the handle bars are a different style, and it uses rotor brakes. Another thing they talk about is that the suspension springs are a standard size so you should be able to swap them with aftermarket options. The scooter isn't available for ordering until the 10th of October, and it sounds like it wont ship until Jan 2025. Thinking about ordering, but it would be a first scooter for me and it's probably going to come out around $2500. So far though, as long as the execution is there, it seems like the least amount of comprimise out there.
I might have to try! I am kind of sad it isn't 12" but 11" isn't bad. It's just when the Apollo pro is 12, you'd maybe hope the phantom could be too, ya know?
I must say that comparing the mountain bike industry (and bikes and technology) to the completely different scooter industry is not fair in any way. Why not complain that scooter wheels are as big as mountain bike wheels? Or why not complain that scooters don't have seats like mountain bikes. I think you do your comparisons within the same industry, within the same industry tech standards, within the same industry prices (scooters are WAY cheaper than high-end mountain bikes). And be sure to include engineering features versus price points and intended uses - you're comparing a city scooter on its off-road gravel-bouncing, mountain-biking feeling. Having said all that, you packed in a lot of feedback in your short video and did not replay all the usual specs and stuff (and we are all grateful for that, I'm sure...). Thank you for your work! (I won't be buying a City anytime soon...)
The criticism is fair because the suspension tech could be implemented on the scooters. It would be ridiculous to critique a scooter for not having bike wheels. I understand the differences which are relevant to the product and the areas where things can be improved. I would love to see scooters with 13" wheels more often and not too much heavier. It can be done! The Dualtron City is an example of this but they disappoint in many other ways.
My main annoyances were not so much about the suspension on this scooter, I can accept it for what it is but the fender design does chuck a ton of dirt RIGHT into the springs. That shouldn't be excusable for a "city" scooter, right?
I glossed over it but was making a point overall. My bigger complains were about the brakes, which is fair. Whether or not a scooter is for city or for dirt doesn't excuse poor design. A good city scooter isn't all that different from an off-road scooter.
It's just that you can cheap out more on a city scooter because it will be less challenged, especially for suspension. However, city scooters might end up going faster than off-road scooters which makes my criticisms about brakes even more real.
Thanks for your comment! I feel like some people are misinterpreting my knocks to be me putting too high of an expectation on scooters or this scooter specifically. It's not really that. It's more so like similar scooters in the same price range or less do this or that detail MUCH better. Or that this or that detail has no reason to be done this poorly or inconveniently.
Maybe my presentation can have more disclaimers to make points more clear so one point isn't conflated to be another.
Ride a Nami Klima or Nami Burn-E they're the most performance MTB style of customisability.
I'll try those soon probably. Teverun is actually quite impressive as well. I think they'll be similar. Much more than people realize.
@ZeroLoveScooters keep in mind if your 6 foot or taller the Teveruns like the Kaabo's have low handlebars. I'm 6"2 so the extra height of the Nami scooters is essential. Also Teverun also use narrower decks and also only 65cm wide handlebars when they should be 70cms as a minimum.
Didn't know nami was a little taller. I am actually not feeling like it's small but I was considering getting slightly taller bars and it's nice to be able to do that.
I have Apollo go and city. Apollo in my opinion is A tier
Oh right on that address my other comment haha. Do you want a pro?
I just started riding scooters this and I rode mountain bike all my life too and I will say scooter riding is FUN DIFFERENT BUT FUN however 2 thing I saw as an issue was the suspension it is not comfortable when riding over broken roads and nd I actively avoid bunt portions other said there is always going to be something wrong with anything I have heard people complaining about teslas and lambos etc
Nice! Yeah, the dual motors is what gets me. That is unique from bikes. You know...I just tried my first scooter that had suspension which felt about as nice as a high end mountain bike. Most scooters, even "nice" ones, feel so bad.
It's the Teverun Fighter 11, and I bought one. I'll chat about it soon.
You have smaller wheels and less travel on a scooter than you do a bike but it should still feel about as nice as a mountain bike can, right?
It's an Apollo City, not an Apollo off road. It works for some!
Very true! I wasn't projecting the idea of an off-road scooter too much on this, I hope. I was just seeing this scooter for what it was and pointing out ways in which it could/should be better because these changes would make it better for everyone without being more expensive or difficult to implement.
nice video
Hey, thanks! Nice comment.
hi 5th sub
Heyyyy welcome to the...cult?? Good to have you aboard!
My drum brakes stop on a dime but I don't even use them . Regen mostly. You can adjust the position of brake levers , throttle, and regen.
You didn't research well enough for your needs . Phantom would have been better for you.
I got the city because it was more easily returnable. You can only slightly adjust the angle of the levers! Apollo also confirms this. Have you actually tried adjusting them? Like moving them left or right a few inches? You literally can't. I don't know why you'd say you can.
Phantom likely, yes, they contacted me about the new one coming out with 11" wheels. Maybe I will test it out. I wasn't interested in the last version. Apollo makes some really frustrating decisions. That scooter also misses the mark pretty hard in a few ways but a couple things are better.
@ZeroLoveScooters The brake levers , throttle, and regen I adjusted vertical to my preference. Horizontal change not a deal breaker for me . The regen stops me fast enough I rarely use the brake levers.
I'm glad that's enough for you! But do consider that by not having the option to adjust it horizontally is going to be a problem for many and is a very common complaint. Whereas there really isn't an advantage to just not having that ability. It's a drawback. You just happen to not care.
It's like if all shirts by one brand were only made in a size medium and you said "it fits me just fine"
@ZeroLoveScooters It may very well be possible to adjust the levers horizontally. I didn't try because it really doesn't matter that much. You sound like one of those pixel counters that complains about everything. And returns things because they don't research a product well enough beforehand.
Nah, it's something that nearly every scooter and bike has as an option because it maximizes fit across all hand sizes and riding styles. You are actually simply not critical enough. Your kind of opinions are the kind that hold the scooter market back and are also the reason why Apollo gets so much hate from more serious scooter riders.
I'm trying to enlighten people to see what the differences are. You can't switch your bars. You can't adjust your brake levers horizontally.
I'm glad you are happy with the scooter! Don't get me wrong. But you can't just dismiss the merit in having something that is so standard across every scooter and bike except Apollo. Especially at this price point.
Trust me, you just don't know the difference between having something truly adjustable and something so limited in that way.
I can brake on my scooter with 1 finger very comfortably. You probably can't because those levers are moved so far towards the end of the bar that you need like 3 fingers on it. Try doing some real riding with 3 fingers on the brake lever and only 2 left to actually hold onto the bar.
It's a big difference for REAL riders. That's the difference here.
I like Apollo but how about a Nami Klima
Return policy?
Nami Klima must be several times better. Also, Teverun. I have a code for those as I think it's a more competitive scooter, actually. Very on par with Nami but the app allows more customization and the scooters can be folded properly. Also, the site I'm affiliated with does offer an actual return policy. Most don't at all.
The rival to this or the Klima from Teverun would be the Fighter Mini. I just rode one and will review it soon. Super nice suspension, so much better than the Apollo. Faster, more range, I actually can't really think of a single detail that isn't better!
Code: ZeroLove
website is superscoots.
Apollo Scooters is an asphalt only scooter company with a near zero performance mtbing background, so they dont even know what their doing wrong. MTBing solved most of scootering problems 10 years ago. Especially for offroading.
Maybe true. I hope someone comes in and does all this stuff better. It's only asphalt because it's poor for off-road. Not because it's specialized for asphalt but moreso limited to it.
@@ZeroLoveScooters looking forward to your Nami Klima review. 😉
I might get the Max haha.
Don’t buy a non off-road scooter and expect better. City - it’s in the name of it.
hope I answered on the other comment you left. Cheers!
Come get my pro. You can borrow it for your review. 😂
Haha where ya at? Does it have the latch and folding for carry? I want to test the latest version.
phantom v4 on sale now
I saw! Definitely a little tempting. I would love to see bigger wheels on a scooter like that, though. Is the brake/throttle position more adjustable on Phantoms?
love your honesty so any luck in finding a scooter that you actually like and recommend? Sub
I appreciate the time, but he is nit picking and complaining a lot. It's not an "off road" scooter. Maybe you need to purchase a four wheel drive ATV? The reviews I watched show no issues with the drum brakes - NO maintenance. You purchased a scooter without doing research; you wanted it - thinking it was something it's not.
Hey, thanks for watching! I think my critiques are fair. The drum brakes are objectively very weak. It's not really an excuse to have a weak brake regardless of if it's a road or off-road scooter.
Furthermore, the critiques about the lever positioning are quite real. I think it's ridiculous to think proper brake lever positioning is something you should only expect from a true off-road scooter. It's just something that should be standard on any scooter.
I didn't project the expectations I had of an off-road scooter onto a road scooter. Rather, I explained where I am coming from and see areas that are relevant for the kind of scooter this is despite that.
No interest in ATV's. Many road scooters are actually better in many regards on and off-road around this price-point BUT lack the regen that Apollo has.
My whole point is that the main redeeming quality is the regen but it's mind-blowing how many other details Apollo misses and how many other scooters miss the one thing Apollo gets right.
I would love to see a scooter just do both well!
Don’t buy a non off-road scooter and expect better. City - it’s in the name of it.
Brake handle- I never even use mine. I just use the regen brakes. I honestly don’t ever touch the brakes.
I didn't! Also, many road scooters are better off-road scooters than this. That's kind of the point. It's fine and great that you don't use the brakes but do consider that a high enough speed scooter should have better real stopping power.
My point is that it could have both but it only has 1.
Bottomline, the scooter(s) doesn’t fit you desire or needs. So move on to something that does. No need for such a negative, whiney rant about what many have found to be a wonderful ride. Move on. I wish you luck with your next acquisition. 👍
Hey! I tried to be honest about where it shines. I'm not even hating on it. It could be better and still be what it is. I really admire the Regen as well. Nobody seems to have it down like that but I might test that punk scooter soon and see what's up.
Its called the city . Not the moutain offroader .