It’s a great update! The weird thing I noticed yesterday is how many of the usual suspect trolls and naysays posted to it within minutes of its release-ridiculous. Anyway, I’m excited for CES and seeing the PI progress in person!
The uptake in the new crowdfunding round will provide an indication of further interest by small investors, and, if the CES reveal is well received, it might bring in some additional capital. However, they need a whale to get production started. I hope they can show some range and performance data at CES, as you pointed out.
When it comes to additional crowdfunding, we have to remember that most of the country and world have yet to learn about Aptera. My guess is that the PI-4 reveal at CES may also coincide with a national publicity campaign to support the new crowdfunding round. This much larger audience and exposure would make it all make much better sense in my opinion.
I doubt that Aptera is going to be that talked about from CES compared to so much else. Most cars shown off at CES are concept cars that will never come out and CES tends to be flooded with similar prototype products. Like how many time will we see flexible tablets or microLED displays? I really think Aptera need to the investors, not the consumer interests. The investors are needed to fund it, and it already has a high preorder rate/ support from fans. The main fear from investors is just is this a long term plan, a spak, and will any other car companies come in and kill it before it shows up. There are so many automotive startups that fail without making a single car, it's why few want to invest in it. They really need to be more open about their future plans to investors.
Distance from Aptera to Vegas is about 315 mi. Imagine if validation testing confirms that the Aptera PI vehicle could drive all the way to CES? That would be huge.
If Aptera had ever driven 1-2 hrs with the 10 kWh gamma battery to confirm over 8 miles/kWh, the community would already know what you claim. Instead, they refuse to do it and it isn't certain what battery will be available in January. Then suspension, drive train, cooling, etc. I agree with you, Aptera still not able to address your interests is shameful. Not surprisingly Aptera is 0 for 3 with professional investment.
Its insane that Rivian after burning through $15B and losing $50k on each vehicle they sell, is getting the DOE to give them another $6B, while Aptera is making huge progress on 1/1000 that budget.
I agree with the thrust of your comment, with one correction: Aptera has so far been working with a little less than 1/100th, or just under 1%, of the capital Rivian has. Easy to be off by a decimal point. Your point still stands though; Aptera has been extraordinarily efficient in their use of capital. I won’t begrudge the Department of Energy making the $6 billion loan to Rivian - as long as they lend 1/10th of that amount to Aptera.
This is just insane. This is the same DOE ATVM loan program that Aptera didn't qualify for in its first incarnation because of the four wheel requirement. The four wheel requirement eventually went away, to allow for three wheel configurations, like Aptera. Things were starting to look up for Aptera. Then, after a number of other EV companies failed after being awarded this loan, Senator Mitt Romney added the requirement that applicants must already be in low rate production to qualify for the loan. This presents an obvious chicken and egg problem for Aptera that has been designing and planning to get to mass production without a prolonged period of low rate production. Ironically, Mitt Romney added this requirement because he felt the the loan program was a waste of taxpayer's money without it! The Electric Viking (RUclips channel) has a video on this, and he thinks there's no way Rivian is going to ever repay this loan. $6B is $20 for every resident of the United States. The interest on this loan would be enough to fully fund Aptera!
@ I stand corrected. However, (the earlier incarnation of) Aptera did apply for ATVM in 2008, before the 2009 ruling accepting three wheelers. They re-applied in 2010 and were rejected on financial grounds. A four wheeler Aptera is claimed (by its then leadership - not the founders or current leadership) to have gained conditional approval. The point remains that being a three wheeler delayed the (first) Aptera from eligibility for ATVM. The larger point also remains: ATVM is requiring a convoluted set of requirements, in the name of financial viability, that ironically funds the likes of Rivian, to the tune of $6B, while Rivian is losing $40k-$100k/vehicle. Today’s Aptera, run by the first Aptera’s founders (not by the leadership that was in place in 2009-11) would be wise to NOT count on an ATVM loan. They will likely achieve profitable mass production before they can qualify for the ATVM loan.
@@yoobb - Elio Motors applied for it twice. There was a list of the 100 companies that applied for it back in 2009. Aptera was on it along with Elio. Even Arcimoto applied for it and they were in production and did an IPO. Rejected because of lack of distribution and no plan Even V-Vehicles (a 4 wheeler) was rejected even though they were funded by a billionare. It was because, they had a concept and simulations showed it would work but the DOE wanted to see real results. They even tried again when they became Next Autoworks. Then it was financing and no plan on distribution or a plant. ATVM loan program was burned twice and thus decided to make it a bit more difficult due to the bad players. Tesla got it but people forget that they paid it off early with interest. That's what you want to see. Not companies going out of business because they are broke or have a product they cannot sell.
@@philippkrebs2484 - So, why didn't they get it close with ADAMS and then run it o a shaker rig? After that, have about 5 sets within the ride frequency they are looking at to get. If you want to be taken seriously, then do serious engineering. Not like some backyard guy racing some car in SCCA.
@@billsmith5960 Weird takeaway... smells like desperate ankle-biting. Second guessing the brilliant engineers building the Aptera might make you feel good but it also makes you come off as a pompous self important.....
I hope the supporters agree, even if it takes seeing the completed PIs, testing, etc. Otherwise, I think it’ll take more exposure and many new investors to help.
Thanks Steve, Nice overview with your usual attention to detail that just don't make my radar. There is a lot of quiet money that cruises CES. I think this is the motivation for the latest crowdfunding.
EVE Energy was a good choice earlier, when battery manufacturers had hiked up prices and they had a lot of automakers interested in building EVs. But lithium prices dropped dramatically from the spiked price peaks of a couple years ago, and Aptera has more, cheaper options. Plus with Chinese tariffs threatening to raise consumer costs, Aptera might have picked a domestic battery manufacturer. While I agree that LFP batteries have several advantages, Aptera's claim to high efficiency, low weight, better performance, and importantly long range, hinge on battery energy density. To build smaller, lighter battery packs and get maximum range. The difference between NCM811 and standard LFP batteries is pretty big, and it is not certain that Aptera's smaller production could attract battery manufacturers who will be making the next generation of higher energy density LFMP batteries. However, LFMP batteries would be ideal for the 250 mile Aptera coming out in a few years.
LFMP doesn't have as good cycle life as standard LFP, but it is still better than NMC, so I would be happy with LFMP. It is a good compromise between NMC (high energy density but short cycle life) and LFP (lower energy density but long cycle life) and should be cheaper than NMC.
@@amosbatto3051 NMC811 batteries should last 200K-300K miles, so I don't see that as much of an issue compared to maximum range, lower weight, smaller pack size, and higher performance. At least for the Launch Edition.
The secondary market to sell pre ipo shares is traditionally not how pre ipo or venture capital investing works. You have to wait for an IPO to sell. … a secondary market could also backfire on early investors too and share prices can sky rocket. Anyways Aptera is going a GREAT job with everything so far!!! GO APTERA!!!!
What reason or advantage is there for a big investor to invest in Aptera now instead of just waiting until the pi performance and efficiency results are ready? Any? Wouldn't a smart investor just wait and collect interest on the money in the meantime? So I'm not surprised there's not much investment action yet.
Any amount of small price per share change would be completely offset by the data received in those tests to inform their decision. I agree completely. No reason to invest right now.
Man I can feel it is getting real. Validation is the next big piece, as I have said the money will flow their way once validation by third parties is achieved. Crowd funding has been amazing and illiquid. I know that going in, and I have offered to buy some shares at a reasonable discount. IPO will need to be at $15 or more, after selling at $14.80/share. The risk is becoming less, and larger investors know that, but won't pounce until validation happens. Steve, thanks for a wonderful job, taking time to share your thoughts. You are not a pessimist, but much more of a realistic approach. Still my thoughts are that the only 3 wheels is stopping larger investments. Different is fine with me, and you, but 3 instead of 4 wheels is past many folks imagination, because it's always been done the 4 wheels way. Thanks for your input, your level headed approach is fine with me. Lawyers that are any good can agrue either side convincingly, that means a better analysis of the situation. You bring that overall, I commend you for doing that!🎉
I think there are a lot of new people who found out about Aptera, and now they want to invest before the price gets too high and they miss out. I think when Aptera is at the show, a lot of support is going to show up from the community. The last leg of the race is the hardest, but i the Aptera is going to be a hit once it hit the road.
I agree with you view. I want to see it live up to the hype and they can have success but it is a tall mountain in front of them to get over. Since I was mountain climber when younger I hope they make the summit.
It would be cool if they went with sodium carbonate batteries, like Tesla has started using. My brother Seth who lives in Japan said that China has been using them for years, the sodium based batteries I mean.
Those control arms are beautiful, the pushrod suspension, installation of EMR3. Wow! It's all really incredible, really impressive stuff. Would love to see a competition for most creative wrap. With the body being wrapped, you can put pretty much any custom graphic on the car very easily, way easier than painting. So you could make the car actual plaid if you wanted (get it? Aptera plaid edition?). Or anything else you can dream up, it's a matter of printing the wrap that's all.
EMR3 is a good motor but hopefully they will transition to EM4 as they scale production as it will be needed to make the AWD efficient. Both are great options as it takes concerns of small niche companies providing a critical part out of the equation. I still see Aptera as my electric midlife crisis sports car and am interested to see how the performance is.
Lets see some live data at CES, solar output and efficiency ( miles/kwh) from the dash ( on video with as much detail as possible), will they have a rear hatch of solar by then? Would seem rather important to start showing some real numbers then investors can make an informed decision on whether its even worth puting money into the venture.
I have yet to see a video that their solar model does what they claim. 8 hours in sun, drive 40 miles. All of the videos we see are without full compliment of PV panels, the largest panel is missing and never seen driven anywhere. For SEV proving this would the be first thing they need to do.
Even what they claim is very uncertain. They dropped the avg 40/day claim quite awhile ago when they were told it's impossible. I think they initially forgot to derate for horizontal panels. So now they claim 30/day but that is only for southern California with 6,25 peak equivalent sun hrs/day. Most of USA is 4.25 where avg solar miles/day will be 21/day. But that all assumes 10 miles/kWh. That will also derate in northern half of country. And what if in normal driving in Southern California they get closer to 8 miles/kWh? They started out claiming 9, then magically increased to 10 with no explanation. Then changed to Vitesco with published ~80% efficiency. I'm not sure of IWM efficiency, let's say 90%. So Vitesco 10% less. Maybe they were really still 9 miles/kWh and reduce to 8 with Vitesco. That reduces avg solar to 25 miles/day in S. CA and 17 in most of USA. Are you ready for those numbers? Why won't Aptera address any of this? And I think these are optimistic with current info.
@@artsmith103 I agree wit you 100%. They need to stop the dog & pony shows and prove SEV viability first, we know the vehicle looks good & drives and all but prove SEV works in real world case. They have the prototypes, just show us with the full PV compliment and show us real world numbers.
Hard to see how they can real world test peak solar charging until the summertime. Solar panel output is a known quantity. What they really need is to test the real world efficiency, which is what I think they will be doing at the track with their PI builds.
@@jasonhochstrasser8657 Peak summer will be about 2x annual avg. Maybe 60 in southern CA. I don't think that's an interesting question. I think Aptera missed the whole benefit of SEV as range extending a smaller battery. Instead of pretending it's a luxurious long range vehicle, strip it down so that available solar is 50% of daily drive to double the battery range. Forget wintering with the 3 crappy wheel tracks plus cabin heat and defrost. If solar can do 25 miles/day in southern half of USA, fit it with 25 kWh battery and claim avg 400 mile range. Charge once per week for 50 miles/day driving. At 240Vac, 3.5kW it recharges over night in 8hrs. Try for
I took a screenshot of the card and opened it with paint. Then I erased my name and email. I then inserted my bride's name and email. We're both approved and attending.
I was wondering if you could do some deep dive investigation reporting into why the millionaires don't see what we see and invest in Aptera. Has anyone asked those that would be into investing in EV's, why they are not taking the risk.?? what are they seeing that we don't.??
My suspicion is that they want validation and safety testing. Right now it is a cool concept but the question is: will it do what it claims it does? I think that if validation goes well some of these investors will commit. I don’t know how many or at what amounts but validation show this is real and works as expected in real world conditions.
I think the reality is that the difference between a single entity investing a huge sum versus outright buying the company basically dissolves. The CEOs may not agree to this ie losing control of the business. Another reality is that big money is not impressed. It certainly would be interesting to get insight as to why.
Computer simulations are not as trustworthy as actual real world data. Even though in many cases modern simulation technology can effectively predict real world results. When there is an actual real world vehicle driving around, we can ask why no one thinks it's real.
Aptera needs to validate their claims with a full Pi unit (none of this half baked ones). Plus done by a standard that the company is responsible for reaching when they get to production. Right now, that has not been done and the CEO's are not responsible to any investor as they control the company. So, remember, the big investors come in with a team of consultants to see if the company is worth investing into. Thus the company has to open up everything. If what is found to be too much of a risk, they walk away. So far, that's what's happening. The fans and crowdfunders invest on what they see on social media. Plus the company talks down to them and makes big claims. People get excited and hand over a bunch of money all in hopes that they will get their prize. Crowdfunding is easy, real funding is hard.
Are we thinking the CES production intent vehicle will be totally complete based here on this last update? If so would it make sense to put it on a trailer or use the trip out there to drive it and do posts from the road for social media?
Thanks Steve! I still say that it’s the tenacity of the team that will get us there. I’m very optimistic that they’ll be rolling out the first vehicles in 2025. As an aside, i’d bet that they’ve had offers from very large investors that they turned down because they didn’t like the terms. Just my opinion.
Im a reservation holder and investor, and incredibly pessimistic as the years roll by. I think reopening crowdfunding is a nod to no whales closing. I don't think it is possible to interpret this in any other way than a desperate attempt to keep the doors open longer.
Aptera needs to hire Henrik Fisker to lead fund raising. Based on the billions he raised to start Fisker that guy can sell air to a fish and salt to a snail.
I don't think crowdfunding is going to be able to fund full scale production. If they can't get a big investor I'm afraid they will have to push to turn out that 6000 until a year, and use the profits to expand slowly. Hopefully the preorders won't dry up, but if the demand stays steady there will be a lot more demand than supply. They will have to count on the buyers to fund them. I'm still hopeful that once PI3 is out there and can be seen and driven, the investors will realize how much money they can make. CPC and CTNS have seen the profit they could be making, and even Elaphe and Tesla have worked with Aptera to get things done. So there's interest. It's just playing it safe so far. I'm also hopeful they can have some real nimbers by January. They can't do any range tests in full summer sunlight, but they can gather data and extrapolate the results in the summer. And when summer comes they can verify that they were right.
Why 6000? It's yet another claim that Aptera has made and so far theoretical. Like with all other claims, they need to be proven, not just made by Blake sitting in an office.
You are wrong about solar testing any given month. The industry has full info to rate one month vs another any time of the year. Today is last day of November. My array will finish 99-100% for the month. My July forecast is about 5x as many kWh. The more months of data a new array has, the better. But there is no mystery extrapolating winter months to summer months.
@artsmith103 You literally just described how Aptera can collect data between now and Jan 7 and extrapolate that data to cover a whole year. Of course, that estimate can't be 100% accurate because it is based on residential usage of solar panels, which is not going to be the same as vehicular usage. There is no data on vehicular usage; while there is some small amount of data that can be collected from solar challenges, that isn't anywhere near the amount of data collected by the residential solar industry. And even that can't account for the curve of the Aptera's solar panels and usage cases. Still, that estimate should be closer than no data at all.
@richardryley3660 Aptera must use their panels. Why wouldn't they? I really don't understand you people. You act like it's all so magical. It's an under performing, over priced trike, that was first introduced in the '90s. The 2 CEO aren't qualified to build it and are afraid of more capable people showing them up. So they ride the crowd funded project into the grave. Every special design feature has failed or been deleted.
@@artsmith103 - Aptera just needs to use the data on flat panel solar panels that are are at the ideal position. How could that be wrong? Curved panels that are moving all over the place, north south east and west. Then blocked by things like trucks due to them being so low. Nothing could go wrong with that at all........
Panasonic was already shown as being the battery supplier, the unveil is just for the broader public. Also putting Aptera pre-IPO shares on an open market would be a very bad idea for Aptera, best to just focus on an IPO date next year.
Guessing this new crowdfunding is a ‘safety-net’ to keep the doors open if no angel investor materializes in the next few months. IOW Aptera hedging their bets/buying time.
You need to remember, the superfans forget old announcements and thus they do not exist. So, in the end this is just another PR stunt that only the superfans will care about.
There's lots to unpack here, but let's start with the battery. A quick web search says LiFePO4 batteries generally do better in warmer environments while LiNMC does comparatively better in cold conditions. For environmental tolerance, LiFePO4 might be better in the short term while LiNMC is better in the long term. LiFePO4 generally has a lower energy density, but also costs less. This makes LiFePO4 a good candidate for the 250 mile range Aptera. The 400, 600, and 1000 mile version all have the same cell count, with varying cell lengths to account for the capacity difference. The 250 mile version is reported to have a reduced cell count, compared to the others. Since this difference already exists, adding a difference in chemistry will not break a cell count commonality. For Launch Edition, I slightly favor NMC, since it is more proven and less risky in EV applications. I also like the feature that it's easier to keep accurate track of state-of-charge with NMC than with LiFePO4, because of LiFePO4's much flatter voltage vs. SOC curve. On a related topic, designing up front for two different cell connection types is interesting. Is Aptera going to contract with two battery cell suppliers with different connection types? Are those EVE and Panasonic? Surely Aptera will start with one or the other (Panasonic has been mentioned more recently). If they split their battery cell order between two (or more) suppliers, they could get the suppliers to bid against each other.
We sure don't hear Aptera speaking with that aptitude! One week recently, I heard CA and Fambro at different events both refer to the PI battery as 42 kW. It was like they had a practice presentation session and that was the script they memorized. I tell the fanboys constantly, Aptera is extremely deficient in aptitude. I'm sure you also hear it frequently.
"...necessary thermal components for high-speed testing..." Does this mean we'll finally get to see the design and location of the radiator? Will this be a Vitesco-supplied part? How will it differ from the rad in other EMR-3 powered vehicles? In general, I'm interested in learning what, beyond lower drag, will make Aptera more efficient than all the other vehicles that use EMR-3, because it will have to be, by a wide margin. The U.S. Capital offering would be a lot more interesting at a lower threshold, in my opinion. But that might defeat the purpose.
The radiator is already installed. It's supplied by Vitesco, just forward of the motor components. About 1ft^2. Looks like air is coming from front lower passenger side.
I disagree. Aptera is a startup and success is not guaranteed. Even Fisker which was bankrolled by it's founder already being a successful and rich car designer failed within a years of launch with an expediated development period. They could make it, but it's not an 80% chance, it's more like a 40-60% chance. As we can even see with how they've been struggling with large funding for the last 4 years.
Steve, I understand the importance of range validation, but there is no chance it will be done prior to CES. The last parts don't arrive until early December, and then vehicles need to still be completed. Even if those parts arrive in the first week, that only leaves two weeks of build time before Christmas.... there is no testing time remaining, unless it all happens concurrently, and I highly doubt that will happen in this early stage. The little bit of time will be spent preparing PI-4 for the big reveal. I tend to be very optimistic, but that's asking too much. Aptera, please prove me wrong!!
Depends what’s meant by "range testing". Rolling a solar-clad carcass outside for 1 sunny day and 1 cloudy day would provide some useful validation of solar uptake. Sending a drivable Aptera on a track, autonomously at night, could validate computer modeling range estimates. But only 2-3 days some important albeit limited data validation…. MUCH better than, "we think the computer simulations will be very close to reality."
Still missing the belly pan, was originally supposed to be a large(very large) aluminum heat exchanger. With the removal of the skin cooling system Aptera has not mentioned what will be covering that entire section of the vehicle. Also if memory serves US Capitol asked Aptera to close their crowdfunding for their fundraising attempts, i can only assume that the reopening of crowdfunding means that US Capitol failed and fundraising through them has come to an end. Institutional investors won't be swayed by vehicle validation, its a great conversation starter, but that's about it.
It seems to me that the belly pan will just be an unmodified sheet of CF-SMC. Or fiberglass, although I think carbon fiber would better resist damage from road debris. They can't leave that off, it wouldn't be aerodynamic. The cooling system will be a small conventional heat exchanger. I suppose aluminum is also a possibility but it doesn't have to be aluminum if it isn't transferring heat.
The USCG funding is much slower than expected ($700K raised out of $60M and was to be done in 90 days). So crowdfunding was required to be opened back up to provide funding until the IPO.
@richardryley3660 Agree that the part will need to be present and installed for testing, but we have yet to see the physical part. I don't expect it to be carbon fiber as that would require the production of another large mold, which would be wasteful since Steve stated that the belly pan cooling system will be implemented into later models.
@@chrisrudzinski6241 - Same thing happened to Elio Motors. Relied on crowdfunding and raised only 20% of what they needed. When they tried for the real investors, they fell flat. Aptera is running into the same issue. That's why they are back to crowdfunding to keep the lights on.
Was disappointed in the disparity between an accredited investor and one who is not accredited. I can buy XYZ stock at the same price a large investor pays for the stock. The difference between $10.4 & $14.8 per share does not make sense to me as an investment. Last time I checked an independent valuation of the company, the FMV of a share was around $6. So I agree with your assessment that $14.80 sounds inflated. Love to see them succeed, but need this CES show to jump start a fresh infusion of capital to be successful IMO.
Don't worry. Aptera is going to IPO. So, the stock price will skyrocket (just like it did with Elio) and then the smart people will make a ton off of it but the fans will loose their shirts. They stick in it for the long haul (see Elio and Arcimoto). Aptera will be different this time. Trust me, this set of fans will agree.
I'm not involved in social media community of Aptera. I would like to buy one 2nd hand share of stock. $8 sounds fair. Do you have any suggestions for a connection to do that?
@@artsmith103 -Don't know. Best to do is wait. When they IPO, it'll shoot up then take a deep dive. Buy then. After that watch for the next three peaks, sell and buy accordingly. I made plenty off of Elio and Arcimoto because the supaerfans just hold onto it until the end.
Crowdfunding won't net them $60M. ATVM loan won't happen. USCG is a bust. Would any institution loan these guys $60M? Someday I hope we learn why they were unable to raise the funds needed. As Steve said it has been years of 'right around the corner' with nothing to show for it. I don't think they're lying to us but something in the details is causing all potential investors to break off talks.
Let's say they believe the simulation info they refer to, can you imagine why they won't go for an hour drive in gamma and report current miles/kWh? Fly the trike to Italian wind tunnel and not report results? Go to the beach, hand out goofy sunglasses, and not turn the solar on?
Why? I am not an accelerator but invested more money then several of them! They are no more important then anyone else! And that goes for the ambassadors also!
Lots of small investors could be hurt with this recent crowdfunding. Aptera needs big money now. Buying stock in small amounts is only symbolic. The product will be out there in 38 days. It's up to the big boys now. We all hope they make it, but get real.
Product is not out there. So unless you have evidence of that, then you are an insider or employee of Aptera. Just so you know, YT videos or social media does not count.
This is the break or make moment for Aptera. If the Aptera PI vehicle can run and Aptera let people drive it at CES, or Aptera shows people few test runs on films before or at CES, Aptera might have a chance. The US will start going into a deep recession within a year. If Aptera cannot make it within a year time, Aptera will never make it. It will die on the vine silently.
I"m with you on the concern that large investors haven't pulled the trigger yet. If I had 5 or 10 million kicking around and I like the vehicle, I would have thrown them a bone. I mean, are they holding back because it's not prestigious enough? It's not a luxury or high end vehicle and it's weird and suppose to appeal to the masses? Okay. But you see the attention that it gets at showings and people are floored that it's more affordable than what they initially thought. I am hoping I can get into CES to see it and promote the hell out of it. And if possible, get a ride in it. I am also hoping that they have the track numbers from the PI2 build, which was always going to be a complete exterior and guts on the inside. PI4 is what they will be showing. If they don't have the numbers from the track testing at CES, I would be afraid that they may have been way off and they don't want to say that when showing the vehicle off at this heavily covered event. Would being an investor in Aptera be credential enough for getting in?
I’m still hopeful that Aptera will go into production, but I’m getting more and more pessimistic. It just seems that going backwards to crowdfunding again is an ugly look for the company.
...and my dad literally died waiting for it. He asked me about its status the day before he died. Hopefully I'll get mine before I do. I might be able to transfer his reservation to somebody else.
@ Your credential has been declined because your business card appears to have been physically altered. Only a photo or scanned image of an original physical business card will be accepted. I printed it out and took a photo like they said
I've gotta say, I've started to feel rather pessimistic about the company's future recently. I still want to see them succeed and think they have a compelling product but it seems like the will isn't there to actually bring this thing to market. I really hope that this recent push to get broader exposure can generate enough interest to sway investors
Going back to crowdfunding shows the USCG effort is not working out. We all know they are not even close. So, going back to this route will most likely be a bridge to when they IPO. Since Aptera is burning through more in one month (it's going to go way up) than they have raised through USCG in over three months. Handwriting is on the wall. Go back to crowdfunding. Aptera is suffering the same thing Elio did. Paul had total control of the company and he even turned down investment because he would lose some. So, the well of money went dry and they were done. They even made the push for their Pi models (the called them e-Series) and that didn't help. Turning down investors that use experienced people from the industry makes no sense to me. Building a vehicle is not the same as building a fishing reel. Yet some think they can do it all and it can be their downfall.
The share price is way to high all the other ev startups are down 90% or more. Aptera raising the price again when they can't get enough investment is beyond stupid.
@@tumbleweed1976 I think the suite of Aptera performance claims are unobtainable. I think there is no path to adequate funding. I think the 42kWh LE will be >$40K, not as desirable as preorder volume suggests. I don't know the details of qualifying for IPO but even if they achieve that, I don't expect a good outcome.
Hope not enough retail investors are dumb enough to pay almost $15/share for this. It would be one thing if this was 3 years ago and all this was happening but it’s not. The lack of interest for big investors is deafening and now they have to come back to the average Joe looking for more money.
When I invested several years ago it was for 10k. They converted that at a later date to $3.80 per share. So my theoretical investment is now worth just under 39k. I don’t see people investing at that price point, $14.80, at this point in the company’s progress. Especially with the number of missed deadlines and engineering changes.
So, they could not assemble two BINC themselves or apparently attach the doors without CPC technical help. That is pretty damning. The CTNS portion looked like it was staged for display and not seeing actual work being done. The process difference comes down to what they can afford and what CTNS can actually do, given their use of standard cylindrical cells all methods are well known in the industry. I am not sure why you think any range and efficiency testing would be revealed at CES. They will likely parrot their 2019 claims and pricing where we know the pricing is misleading because they provide reservation holders a price over twenty percent less than they told US Capital Group; who do you think is being told the truth. Based on their past, I suspect if the numbers don't align with their promises they will try to sell everyone on the idea that these builds are not fully representative and further refinement will let them hit their numbers and or NDA with suppliers prevent them from revealing the true but very remarkable numbers. Sorry but there was a lot of reused footage, blurred backgrounds, and tightly focused shots. There is no reason to use such shots unless they are less complete than they want to admit. Their CES booth appears the be the 10x10 style which is the smallest entry available, put it this way, the Ring booth nearby is far larger. They are also in Central Plaza which is away from much of the show to include not being part of the automotive section. Across the street as part of the Central Plaza is the BMW show area. In other words they may not get much traffic being where they are. Go look it up yourself. all claims of large investors were lies to keep people interested in giving them money. there is no interest because Steve and Chris granted themselves each FIFTEEN MILLION shares of voting stock and two other investors hold the other twenty six million shares of this stock. No monied investor is going to step into that type of arrangement. The share price going up looks to blunt the discount rate on the Convertible note as well as make the company appear more valuable than it truly is, after all most of that claimed value is based on granted shares - shares not paid for by anyone.
Remember that big investors are like the sharks of shark tank on TV, they always swoop in and grab all the profit in anything they put money into, they are not true investors, as they don’t take any risk. They just enrich themselves.
Aptera is always going to have an uphill battle for funding. There are too many interests that would be injured by the success of Aptera. This is a game changing vehicle in many ways, more than just the solar power. So until Aptera is inevitable it will be fighting against a current.
What are those interests in keeping Aptera from getting funding? Since you researched it, then let us know. Not just things like, big (insert name here). I have not seen a single thing that is holding Aptera beck but themselves.
If the trike was $15K with extreme simplicity it would change low end of market. At $40K it offers nothing but compromise for people looking to virtue signal. RVs and boats avg around 400W, did you hear of any revolution? A 2 seater can't reduce operating cost any measurable amount costing $40K.
Aptera, stop begging for money. Hand build and sell cars now. Pay for production tools as you can. Customers are ready to buy their Apteras now. Don't wait any longer. The 50,000 reservation holders are the calvary. Send me a kit, I'll assemble it myself.
@ApteraOwnersClub I've seen that video. I've watched all your videos and have them in a playlist. I'm a fan of yours. It's been 5 almost 6 years of designing and perfecting the Aptera. They can assemble the cars now while phasing in the production tools.
Why? Aptera wasn’t getting any benefits of IRA and didn’t rely on it. Aptera can stand on its own. It’s a unique value proposition. Or do you think Trump will make it impossible to import parts from our trading partners?
@@tims8603 Oh Vey! one of the voters for the Communists with his head in the sand. Trump is a successful business man, New York Style. And why will deporting ILLEGAL people cause the 'world to end'? Never mind, OP only listens to CNN- the view of an Independent Voter
It would be great if somebody Lilke @itsKyleConnor was asked by Aptera to drive a COMPLETE PI4 to CES to be met by the fans and Sandy Munro ! I will be there at CES !
Me too. I really look forward to seeing Kyle’s review, but it’ss jumping the gun a bit to do that before the first full production run. I think we’ll still see hardware changes and there is definitely software development needed, including integration into Tesla’s Supercharging network.
Kyle makes it a POLICY not to review cars that are not production, or 'one inch away' by a BIG NAME AUTO MAKER. "He fell on his face' when he reviewed some off brand EV that totally failed. he is not going to risk his income on an Aptera
@@harriettanthony7352 You’re right about Kyle‘s policy, and he’s committed to sticking to it. At the same time, he’s made it clear that he really likes Aptera and is very eager to review it as soon as it goes into production. I’m confident Aptera is going to reach production, so I’m looking forward to Kyle‘s Out of Spec review!
It’s a great update! The weird thing I noticed yesterday is how many of the usual suspect trolls and naysays posted to it within minutes of its release-ridiculous. Anyway, I’m excited for CES and seeing the PI progress in person!
AI bot responses
I’d think the poorly written complaints and amateur trolling wouldn’t be worth hiring.
@@theresa337 - Who would that be?
@@billsmith5960 Could be the folks behind "Zaptera"
The uptake in the new crowdfunding round will provide an indication of further interest by small investors, and, if the CES reveal is well received, it might bring in some additional capital. However, they need a whale to get production started. I hope they can show some range and performance data at CES, as you pointed out.
When it comes to additional crowdfunding, we have to remember that most of the country and world have yet to learn about Aptera. My guess is that the PI-4 reveal at CES may also coincide with a national publicity campaign to support the new crowdfunding round. This much larger audience and exposure would make it all make much better sense in my opinion.
I doubt that Aptera is going to be that talked about from CES compared to so much else. Most cars shown off at CES are concept cars that will never come out and CES tends to be flooded with similar prototype products. Like how many time will we see flexible tablets or microLED displays? I really think Aptera need to the investors, not the consumer interests.
The investors are needed to fund it, and it already has a high preorder rate/ support from fans. The main fear from investors is just is this a long term plan, a spak, and will any other car companies come in and kill it before it shows up. There are so many automotive startups that fail without making a single car, it's why few want to invest in it. They really need to be more open about their future plans to investors.
Aptera needs to have been at electrify expo events.
YES - As much validation as possible before CES is essential.
This feels like an early Christmas gift, that can't be opened until after Christmas. Exciting!
As soon as I saw this update, I considered just waiting for the Aptera Owner’s Club analysis.
😂😂😂
Distance from Aptera to Vegas is about 315 mi. Imagine if validation testing confirms that the Aptera PI vehicle could drive all the way to CES? That would be huge.
If Aptera had ever driven 1-2 hrs with the 10 kWh gamma battery to confirm over 8 miles/kWh, the community would already know what you claim. Instead, they refuse to do it and it isn't certain what battery will be available in January. Then suspension, drive train, cooling, etc.
I agree with you, Aptera still not able to address your interests is shameful. Not surprisingly Aptera is 0 for 3 with professional investment.
Its insane that Rivian after burning through $15B and losing $50k on each vehicle they sell, is getting the DOE to give them another $6B, while Aptera is making huge progress on 1/1000 that budget.
I agree with the thrust of your comment, with one correction: Aptera has so far been working with a little less than 1/100th, or just under 1%, of the capital Rivian has. Easy to be off by a decimal point. Your point still stands though; Aptera has been extraordinarily efficient in their use of capital.
I won’t begrudge the Department of Energy making the $6 billion loan to Rivian - as long as they lend 1/10th of that amount to Aptera.
This is just insane. This is the same DOE ATVM loan program that Aptera didn't qualify for in its first incarnation because of the four wheel requirement. The four wheel requirement eventually went away, to allow for three wheel configurations, like Aptera. Things were starting to look up for Aptera.
Then, after a number of other EV companies failed after being awarded this loan, Senator Mitt Romney added the requirement that applicants must already be in low rate production to qualify for the loan. This presents an obvious chicken and egg problem for Aptera that has been designing and planning to get to mass production without a prolonged period of low rate production.
Ironically, Mitt Romney added this requirement because he felt the the loan program was a waste of taxpayer's money without it!
The Electric Viking (RUclips channel) has a video on this, and he thinks there's no way Rivian is going to ever repay this loan. $6B is $20 for every resident of the United States. The interest on this loan would be enough to fully fund Aptera!
@@yoobb - You are incorrect. Three wheelers have been eligible since 2009 and they applied for it.
@ I stand corrected.
However, (the earlier incarnation of) Aptera did apply for ATVM in 2008, before the 2009 ruling accepting three wheelers.
They re-applied in 2010 and were rejected on financial grounds. A four wheeler Aptera is claimed (by its then leadership - not the founders or current leadership) to have gained conditional approval.
The point remains that being a three wheeler delayed the (first) Aptera from eligibility for ATVM.
The larger point also remains: ATVM is requiring a convoluted set of requirements, in the name of financial viability, that ironically funds the likes of Rivian, to the tune of $6B, while Rivian is losing $40k-$100k/vehicle.
Today’s Aptera, run by the first Aptera’s founders (not by the leadership that was in place in 2009-11) would be wise to NOT count on an ATVM loan.
They will likely achieve profitable mass production before they can qualify for the ATVM loan.
@@yoobb - Elio Motors applied for it twice. There was a list of the 100 companies that applied for it back in 2009. Aptera was on it along with Elio. Even Arcimoto applied for it and they were in production and did an IPO. Rejected because of lack of distribution and no plan
Even V-Vehicles (a 4 wheeler) was rejected even though they were funded by a billionare. It was because, they had a concept and simulations showed it would work but the DOE wanted to see real results. They even tried again when they became Next Autoworks. Then it was financing and no plan on distribution or a plant.
ATVM loan program was burned twice and thus decided to make it a bit more difficult due to the bad players. Tesla got it but people forget that they paid it off early with interest. That's what you want to see. Not companies going out of business because they are broke or have a product they cannot sell.
these shock absorbers are top from the motorsport’s-and tuning world!
Those are KW units. The rear even has an external damper. There is no way those will make it to production. I mentioned this over a month ago.
@ yes for sure, this adjustable setup is to define in realworld the right (fixed) production damper- and springrates…
@@philippkrebs2484 - So, why didn't they get it close with ADAMS and then run it o a shaker rig? After that, have about 5 sets within the ride frequency they are looking at to get.
If you want to be taken seriously, then do serious engineering. Not like some backyard guy racing some car in SCCA.
@@billsmith5960 yes, this is what we assume… there are many ways to achieve the goals, especially as a startup…
@@billsmith5960 Weird takeaway... smells like desperate ankle-biting. Second guessing the brilliant engineers building the Aptera might make you feel good but it also makes you come off as a pompous self important.....
I think opening up the investment program again is a great thing. More people investing means the sooner they get to production.
I hope the supporters agree, even if it takes seeing the completed PIs, testing, etc. Otherwise, I think it’ll take more exposure and many new investors to help.
Thanks Steve, Nice overview with your usual attention to detail that just don't make my radar.
There is a lot of quiet money that cruises CES. I think this is the motivation for the latest crowdfunding.
EVE Energy was a good choice earlier, when battery manufacturers had hiked up prices and they had a lot of automakers interested in building EVs. But lithium prices dropped dramatically from the spiked price peaks of a couple years ago, and Aptera has more, cheaper options. Plus with Chinese tariffs threatening to raise consumer costs, Aptera might have picked a domestic battery manufacturer. While I agree that LFP batteries have several advantages, Aptera's claim to high efficiency, low weight, better performance, and importantly long range, hinge on battery energy density. To build smaller, lighter battery packs and get maximum range. The difference between NCM811 and standard LFP batteries is pretty big, and it is not certain that Aptera's smaller production could attract battery manufacturers who will be making the next generation of higher energy density LFMP batteries. However, LFMP batteries would be ideal for the 250 mile Aptera coming out in a few years.
LFMP doesn't have as good cycle life as standard LFP, but it is still better than NMC, so I would be happy with LFMP. It is a good compromise between NMC (high energy density but short cycle life) and LFP (lower energy density but long cycle life) and should be cheaper than NMC.
@@amosbatto3051 NMC811 batteries should last 200K-300K miles, so I don't see that as much of an issue compared to maximum range, lower weight, smaller pack size, and higher performance. At least for the Launch Edition.
The secondary market to sell pre ipo shares is traditionally not how pre ipo or venture capital investing works. You have to wait for an IPO to sell. … a secondary market could also backfire on early investors too and share prices can sky rocket. Anyways Aptera is going a GREAT job with everything so far!!! GO APTERA!!!!
What reason or advantage is there for a big investor to invest in Aptera now instead of just waiting until the pi performance and efficiency results are ready? Any?
Wouldn't a smart investor just wait and collect interest on the money in the meantime?
So I'm not surprised there's not much investment action yet.
Any amount of small price per share change would be completely offset by the data received in those tests to inform their decision. I agree completely. No reason to invest right now.
Cell supplier could be Panasonic. They were on Aptera’s website.
Man I can feel it is getting real. Validation is the next big piece, as I have said the money will flow their way once validation by third parties is achieved. Crowd funding has been amazing and illiquid. I know that going in, and I have offered to buy some shares at a reasonable discount. IPO will need to be at $15 or more, after selling at $14.80/share.
The risk is becoming less, and larger investors know that, but won't pounce until validation happens. Steve, thanks for a wonderful job, taking time to share your thoughts. You are not a pessimist, but much more of a realistic approach. Still my thoughts are that the only 3 wheels is stopping larger investments. Different is fine with me, and you, but 3 instead of 4 wheels is past many folks imagination, because it's always been done the 4 wheels way.
Thanks for your input, your level headed approach is fine with me. Lawyers that are any good can agrue either side convincingly, that means a better analysis of the situation. You bring that overall, I commend you for doing that!🎉
SideBar--Lawyers--'A lawyer is a man who can argue a horse chestnut is a chestnut {coloured} horse" A. Lincoln
@@harriettanthony7352 excellent 👌
I think there are a lot of new people who found out about Aptera, and now they want to invest before the price gets too high and they miss out. I think when Aptera is at the show, a lot of support is going to show up from the community. The last leg of the race is the hardest, but i the Aptera is going to be a hit once it hit the road.
When doing these kinds of videos where we are watching monthly updates, can you please set the video to fill screen?
Don't different devices have different aspect ratios? My Apple contacts always send me crap size photos.
Seems like Aptera is making money on “around the corner” videos and not really serious about finishing anything 😅
I agree with you view. I want to see it live up to the hype and they can have success but it is a tall mountain in front of them to get over. Since I was mountain climber when younger I hope they make the summit.
It would be cool if they went with sodium carbonate batteries, like Tesla has started using. My brother Seth who lives in Japan said that China has been using them for years, the sodium based batteries I mean.
Ready in time for CES 🤘😃
Those control arms are beautiful, the pushrod suspension, installation of EMR3. Wow! It's all really incredible, really impressive stuff. Would love to see a competition for most creative wrap. With the body being wrapped, you can put pretty much any custom graphic on the car very easily, way easier than painting. So you could make the car actual plaid if you wanted (get it? Aptera plaid edition?). Or anything else you can dream up, it's a matter of printing the wrap that's all.
EMR3 is a good motor but hopefully they will transition to EM4 as they scale production as it will be needed to make the AWD efficient. Both are great options as it takes concerns of small niche companies providing a critical part out of the equation. I still see Aptera as my electric midlife crisis sports car and am interested to see how the performance is.
Lets see some live data at CES, solar output and efficiency ( miles/kwh) from the dash
( on video with as much detail as possible),
will they have a rear hatch of solar by then? Would seem rather important to start showing some real numbers then investors can make an informed decision on whether its even worth puting money into the venture.
I have yet to see a video that their solar model does what they claim. 8 hours in sun, drive 40 miles. All of the videos we see are without full compliment of PV panels, the largest panel is missing and never seen driven anywhere. For SEV proving this would the be first thing they need to do.
Even what they claim is very uncertain. They dropped the avg 40/day claim quite awhile ago when they were told it's impossible. I think they initially forgot to derate for horizontal panels. So now they claim 30/day but that is only for southern California with 6,25 peak equivalent sun hrs/day. Most of USA is 4.25 where avg solar miles/day will be 21/day. But that all assumes 10 miles/kWh. That will also derate in northern half of country. And what if in normal driving in Southern California they get closer to 8 miles/kWh? They started out claiming 9, then magically increased to 10 with no explanation. Then changed to Vitesco with published ~80% efficiency. I'm not sure of IWM efficiency, let's say 90%. So Vitesco 10% less. Maybe they were really still 9 miles/kWh and reduce to 8 with Vitesco. That reduces avg solar to 25 miles/day in S. CA and 17 in most of USA. Are you ready for those numbers? Why won't Aptera address any of this? And I think these are optimistic with current info.
@@artsmith103 I agree wit you 100%. They need to stop the dog & pony shows and prove SEV viability first, we know the vehicle looks good & drives and all but prove SEV works in real world case. They have the prototypes, just show us with the full PV compliment and show us real world numbers.
Hard to see how they can real world test peak solar charging until the summertime. Solar panel output is a known quantity. What they really need is to test the real world efficiency, which is what I think they will be doing at the track with their PI builds.
@@jasonhochstrasser8657 Peak summer will be about 2x annual avg. Maybe 60 in southern CA. I don't think that's an interesting question.
I think Aptera missed the whole benefit of SEV as range extending a smaller battery. Instead of pretending it's a luxurious long range vehicle, strip it down so that available solar is 50% of daily drive to double the battery range. Forget wintering with the 3 crappy wheel tracks plus cabin heat and defrost. If solar can do 25 miles/day in southern half of USA, fit it with 25 kWh battery and claim avg 400 mile range. Charge once per week for 50 miles/day driving. At 240Vac, 3.5kW it recharges over night in 8hrs. Try for
Ive been waiting for your take on the update. 😊
I know every time Aptera sends one I'm like "yeah yeah yeah whatever what is Steve going to say" lol
Having investing oprotunits availble at CES will be what they will need to actualy motinor the new appreation of Aptera
The HUGE IF-- if they get the parts in time!
I can just hear their 3-D printer whirring away! lol
Got my credentials. Now I just have to find my white bell-bottomed jumpsuit, embellished with a bald eagle made from red, gold and blue studs.
Heard some folks figured out how to register spouses for the CES, too. How would I go about doing that given different name on the business card?
I took a screenshot of the card and opened it with paint. Then I erased my name and email. I then inserted my bride's name and email. We're both approved and attending.
@@davidgross6038 Congrats for figuring that workaround. I'll give it a try. See you there.
I was wondering if you could do some deep dive investigation reporting into why the millionaires don't see what we see and invest in Aptera. Has anyone asked those that would be into investing in EV's, why they are not taking the risk.?? what are they seeing that we don't.??
My suspicion is that they want validation and safety testing. Right now it is a cool concept but the question is: will it do what it claims it does?
I think that if validation goes well some of these investors will commit. I don’t know how many or at what amounts but validation show this is real and works as expected in real world conditions.
That information that US Capital should have gathered from their presentations and discussions with potential investors (individual and institutional)
I think the reality is that the difference between a single entity investing a huge sum versus outright buying the company basically dissolves. The CEOs may not agree to this ie losing control of the business. Another reality is that big money is not impressed. It certainly would be interesting to get insight as to why.
Computer simulations are not as trustworthy as actual real world data. Even though in many cases modern simulation technology can effectively predict real world results.
When there is an actual real world vehicle driving around, we can ask why no one thinks it's real.
Aptera needs to validate their claims with a full Pi unit (none of this half baked ones). Plus done by a standard that the company is responsible for reaching when they get to production. Right now, that has not been done and the CEO's are not responsible to any investor as they control the company.
So, remember, the big investors come in with a team of consultants to see if the company is worth investing into. Thus the company has to open up everything. If what is found to be too much of a risk, they walk away. So far, that's what's happening.
The fans and crowdfunders invest on what they see on social media. Plus the company talks down to them and makes big claims. People get excited and hand over a bunch of money all in hopes that they will get their prize. Crowdfunding is easy, real funding is hard.
Are we thinking the CES production intent vehicle will be totally complete based here on this last update? If so would it make sense to put it on a trailer or use the trip out there to drive it and do posts from the road for social media?
Thanks Steve! I still say that it’s the tenacity of the team that will get us there. I’m very optimistic that they’ll be rolling out the first vehicles in 2025.
As an aside, i’d bet that they’ve had offers from very large investors that they turned down because they didn’t like the terms. Just my opinion.
Im a reservation holder and investor, and incredibly pessimistic as the years roll by. I think reopening crowdfunding is a nod to no whales closing. I don't think it is possible to interpret this in any other way than a desperate attempt to keep the doors open longer.
I want to attend CES but I don't have "credentials", (what is that?).
ruclips.net/video/8ugXd1Kqu3k/видео.html
Don't care who the battery comes from as long as it isn't one of the spontaneous combustion brands
A celebrity investor would be awesome. Does anyone have James May's number? I don't think he's even aware of this car, oddly.
Or Bob Lutz as penitence for killing the electric car. 🤙
Aptera needs to hire Henrik Fisker to lead fund raising. Based on the billions he raised to start Fisker that guy can sell air to a fish and salt to a snail.
I don't think crowdfunding is going to be able to fund full scale production. If they can't get a big investor I'm afraid they will have to push to turn out that 6000 until a year, and use the profits to expand slowly. Hopefully the preorders won't dry up, but if the demand stays steady there will be a lot more demand than supply. They will have to count on the buyers to fund them.
I'm still hopeful that once PI3 is out there and can be seen and driven, the investors will realize how much money they can make. CPC and CTNS have seen the profit they could be making, and even Elaphe and Tesla have worked with Aptera to get things done. So there's interest. It's just playing it safe so far.
I'm also hopeful they can have some real nimbers by January. They can't do any range tests in full summer sunlight, but they can gather data and extrapolate the results in the summer. And when summer comes they can verify that they were right.
Why 6000? It's yet another claim that Aptera has made and so far theoretical. Like with all other claims, they need to be proven, not just made by Blake sitting in an office.
You are wrong about solar testing any given month. The industry has full info to rate one month vs another any time of the year. Today is last day of November. My array will finish 99-100% for the month. My July forecast is about 5x as many kWh. The more months of data a new array has, the better. But there is no mystery extrapolating winter months to summer months.
@artsmith103 You literally just described how Aptera can collect data between now and Jan 7 and extrapolate that data to cover a whole year.
Of course, that estimate can't be 100% accurate because it is based on residential usage of solar panels, which is not going to be the same as vehicular usage. There is no data on vehicular usage; while there is some small amount of data that can be collected from solar challenges, that isn't anywhere near the amount of data collected by the residential solar industry. And even that can't account for the curve of the Aptera's solar panels and usage cases.
Still, that estimate should be closer than no data at all.
@richardryley3660 Aptera must use their panels. Why wouldn't they? I really don't understand you people. You act like it's all so magical. It's an under performing, over priced trike, that was first introduced in the '90s. The 2 CEO aren't qualified to build it and are afraid of more capable people showing them up. So they ride the crowd funded project into the grave. Every special design feature has failed or been deleted.
@@artsmith103 - Aptera just needs to use the data on flat panel solar panels that are are at the ideal position. How could that be wrong? Curved panels that are moving all over the place, north south east and west. Then blocked by things like trucks due to them being so low. Nothing could go wrong with that at all........
Panasonic was already shown as being the battery supplier, the unveil is just for the broader public. Also putting Aptera pre-IPO shares on an open market would be a very bad idea for Aptera, best to just focus on an IPO date next year.
Guessing this new crowdfunding is a ‘safety-net’ to keep the doors open if no angel investor materializes in the next few months. IOW Aptera hedging their bets/buying time.
You need to remember, the superfans forget old announcements and thus they do not exist. So, in the end this is just another PR stunt that only the superfans will care about.
@billsmith5960 yeah most people don't care who suppliers batteries to an EV company.
@@apteratime - That's true. For Aptera, they just make any announcement as they are required to do just to get more crowdfunding.
Well I hope none of those are PI2 cause I didn't see any solar panels on them...PI2 should've had that long ago (I thought).
401k option please via IPO
There's lots to unpack here, but let's start with the battery. A quick web search says LiFePO4 batteries generally do better in warmer environments while LiNMC does comparatively better in cold conditions. For environmental tolerance, LiFePO4 might be better in the short term while LiNMC is better in the long term.
LiFePO4 generally has a lower energy density, but also costs less. This makes LiFePO4 a good candidate for the 250 mile range Aptera. The 400, 600, and 1000 mile version all have the same cell count, with varying cell lengths to account for the capacity difference. The 250 mile version is reported to have a reduced cell count, compared to the others. Since this difference already exists, adding a difference in chemistry will not break a cell count commonality.
For Launch Edition, I slightly favor NMC, since it is more proven and less risky in EV applications. I also like the feature that it's easier to keep accurate track of state-of-charge with NMC than with LiFePO4, because of LiFePO4's much flatter voltage vs. SOC curve.
On a related topic, designing up front for two different cell connection types is interesting. Is Aptera going to contract with two battery cell suppliers with different connection types? Are those EVE and Panasonic? Surely Aptera will start with one or the other (Panasonic has been mentioned more recently). If they split their battery cell order between two (or more) suppliers, they could get the suppliers to bid against each other.
LiFePO4 also typically have a higher charge cycle count, although advances in battery managment have made it less of a drastic issue.
We sure don't hear Aptera speaking with that aptitude! One week recently, I heard CA and Fambro at different events both refer to the PI battery as 42 kW. It was like they had a practice presentation session and that was the script they memorized. I tell the fanboys constantly, Aptera is extremely deficient in aptitude. I'm sure you also hear it frequently.
"...necessary thermal components for high-speed testing..."
Does this mean we'll finally get to see the design and location of the radiator? Will this be a Vitesco-supplied part? How will it differ from the rad in other EMR-3 powered vehicles?
In general, I'm interested in learning what, beyond lower drag, will make Aptera more efficient than all the other vehicles that use EMR-3, because it will have to be, by a wide margin.
The U.S. Capital offering would be a lot more interesting at a lower threshold, in my opinion. But that might defeat the purpose.
The radiator is already installed. It's supplied by Vitesco, just forward of the motor components. About 1ft^2. Looks like air is coming from front lower passenger side.
There is always people who say it won’t make it ,they are the same people who said man will never fly
I disagree. Aptera is a startup and success is not guaranteed. Even Fisker which was bankrolled by it's founder already being a successful and rich car designer failed within a years of launch with an expediated development period. They could make it, but it's not an 80% chance, it's more like a 40-60% chance. As we can even see with how they've been struggling with large funding for the last 4 years.
Kinda doubt same folks as human flight demonstrated in 1903. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know their secret to longevity 😀
@@gr8dvd 🤣
Pragmatism is not pessimism.
Steve, I understand the importance of range validation, but there is no chance it will be done prior to CES. The last parts don't arrive until early December, and then vehicles need to still be completed. Even if those parts arrive in the first week, that only leaves two weeks of build time before Christmas.... there is no testing time remaining, unless it all happens concurrently, and I highly doubt that will happen in this early stage. The little bit of time will be spent preparing PI-4 for the big reveal. I tend to be very optimistic, but that's asking too much. Aptera, please prove me wrong!!
The validation is being done by PI2 and 3 as I write this.
@@gmv0553 Not!!!
Depends what’s meant by "range testing". Rolling a solar-clad carcass outside for 1 sunny day and 1 cloudy day would provide some useful validation of solar uptake. Sending a drivable Aptera on a track, autonomously at night, could validate computer modeling range estimates. But only 2-3 days some important albeit limited data validation…. MUCH better than, "we think the computer simulations will be very close to reality."
@@gmv0553 Well, that would be fantastic news. I really hope I'm wrong!!
@@gr8dvd I can't argue with that. Nothing could be better than if I'm completely wrong!!
Still missing the belly pan, was originally supposed to be a large(very large) aluminum heat exchanger. With the removal of the skin cooling system Aptera has not mentioned what will be covering that entire section of the vehicle.
Also if memory serves US Capitol asked Aptera to close their crowdfunding for their fundraising attempts, i can only assume that the reopening of crowdfunding means that US Capitol failed and fundraising through them has come to an end. Institutional investors won't be swayed by vehicle validation, its a great conversation starter, but that's about it.
It seems to me that the belly pan will just be an unmodified sheet of CF-SMC. Or fiberglass, although I think carbon fiber would better resist damage from road debris. They can't leave that off, it wouldn't be aerodynamic.
The cooling system will be a small conventional heat exchanger.
I suppose aluminum is also a possibility but it doesn't have to be aluminum if it isn't transferring heat.
The USCG funding is much slower than expected ($700K raised out of $60M and was to be done in 90 days). So crowdfunding was required to be opened back up to provide funding until the IPO.
@richardryley3660 Agree that the part will need to be present and installed for testing, but we have yet to see the physical part. I don't expect it to be carbon fiber as that would require the production of another large mold, which would be wasteful since Steve stated that the belly pan cooling system will be implemented into later models.
@billsmith5960 Unfortunately, crowdfunding has not been able to provide the capital over time necessary to get the vehicle into production...
@@chrisrudzinski6241 - Same thing happened to Elio Motors. Relied on crowdfunding and raised only 20% of what they needed. When they tried for the real investors, they fell flat. Aptera is running into the same issue. That's why they are back to crowdfunding to keep the lights on.
Was disappointed in the disparity between an accredited investor and one who is not accredited. I can buy XYZ stock at the same price a large investor pays for the stock. The difference between $10.4 & $14.8 per share does not make sense to me as an investment.
Last time I checked an independent valuation of the company, the FMV of a share was around $6.
So I agree with your assessment that $14.80 sounds inflated.
Love to see them succeed, but need this CES show to jump start a fresh infusion of capital to be successful IMO.
Don't worry. Aptera is going to IPO. So, the stock price will skyrocket (just like it did with Elio) and then the smart people will make a ton off of it but the fans will loose their shirts. They stick in it for the long haul (see Elio and Arcimoto). Aptera will be different this time. Trust me, this set of fans will agree.
I'm not involved in social media community of Aptera. I would like to buy one 2nd hand share of stock. $8 sounds fair. Do you have any suggestions for a connection to do that?
@@artsmith103 -Don't know. Best to do is wait. When they IPO, it'll shoot up then take a deep dive. Buy then. After that watch for the next three peaks, sell and buy accordingly. I made plenty off of Elio and Arcimoto because the supaerfans just hold onto it until the end.
@@billsmith5960 My question was directed to OP. My stock interest is to have standing.
Crowdfunding won't net them $60M. ATVM loan won't happen. USCG is a bust. Would any institution loan these guys $60M? Someday I hope we learn why they were unable to raise the funds needed. As Steve said it has been years of 'right around the corner' with nothing to show for it. I don't think they're lying to us but something in the details is causing all potential investors to break off talks.
Let's say they believe the simulation info they refer to, can you imagine why they won't go for an hour drive in gamma and report current miles/kWh? Fly the trike to Italian wind tunnel and not report results? Go to the beach, hand out goofy sunglasses, and not turn the solar on?
Solar was working both times I saw Gamma.
@@JayGrant-hi5ms Do you know how to measure if solar is working as designed?
Sadly you need 100% of parts to make a saleable vehicle. If you even have 1 part missing you can't ship the vehicle in most cases.
I thought it was a nice update. I would have liked if the $10k Accelerators would have gotten a look first. Maybe in email form?
Why? I am not an accelerator but invested more money then several of them! They are no more important then anyone else! And that goes for the ambassadors also!
Don’t feel any shame in feeling “pessimistic”
Lots of small investors could be hurt with this recent crowdfunding. Aptera needs big money now. Buying stock in small amounts is only symbolic. The product will be out there in 38 days. It's up to the big boys now. We all hope they make it, but get real.
Product is not out there. So unless you have evidence of that, then you are an insider or employee of Aptera. Just so you know, YT videos or social media does not count.
@@billsmith5960 You're right. Steve says the product will be out there in 38 days. It's not out there now. I'll correct my post.
@@billsmith5960 You're right. I'll correct my post. The finished product isn't out for 38 days per Steve F.
@@montanaerdoc - Good to know. I wish SF would announce that. I don't consider a prototype an actual product, it's just that, a prototype.
This is the break or make moment for Aptera. If the Aptera PI vehicle can run and Aptera let people drive it at CES, or Aptera shows people few test runs on films before or at CES, Aptera might have a chance.
The US will start going into a deep recession within a year. If Aptera cannot make it within a year time, Aptera will never make it. It will die on the vine silently.
Bonding the remaining b-i-c's... Wasn't there 16 bic's shipped to aptera?
I"m with you on the concern that large investors haven't pulled the trigger yet. If I had 5 or 10 million kicking around and I like the vehicle, I would have thrown them a bone. I mean, are they holding back because it's not prestigious enough? It's not a luxury or high end vehicle and it's weird and suppose to appeal to the masses? Okay. But you see the attention that it gets at showings and people are floored that it's more affordable than what they initially thought. I am hoping I can get into CES to see it and promote the hell out of it. And if possible, get a ride in it. I am also hoping that they have the track numbers from the PI2 build, which was always going to be a complete exterior and guts on the inside. PI4 is what they will be showing. If they don't have the numbers from the track testing at CES, I would be afraid that they may have been way off and they don't want to say that when showing the vehicle off at this heavily covered event. Would being an investor in Aptera be credential enough for getting in?
I’m still hopeful that Aptera will go into production, but I’m getting more and more pessimistic. It just seems that going backwards to crowdfunding again is an ugly look for the company.
See it as hedging their bets, buying time and yes… an admission that US-C offering has failed (so far).
Sorry but I've aged out of the Aptera craze, I don't even drive any longer
...and my dad literally died waiting for it. He asked me about its status the day before he died. Hopefully I'll get mine before I do. I might be able to transfer his reservation to somebody else.
My registration has been declined twice using the photo of the business card they sent in the email. Anyone else having trouble?
Worked when I did it with the supplied email business card as an ambassador. What are they saying they still need?
@ Your credential has been declined because your business card appears to have been physically altered. Only a photo or scanned image of an original physical business card will be accepted.
I printed it out and took a photo like they said
@@willstreckfus4248 hmm that's what I did, haven't seen that response yet. I suggest emailing Audra Leslie.
I've gotta say, I've started to feel rather pessimistic about the company's future recently. I still want to see them succeed and think they have a compelling product but it seems like the will isn't there to actually bring this thing to market. I really hope that this recent push to get broader exposure can generate enough interest to sway investors
You should let folks know about the 3rd credential that many need to do using email as the letter with in the last 90 days
The 3 behind him are extras and not part of the first 3 PI builds.
Going back to crowdfunding shows the USCG effort is not working out. We all know they are not even close. So, going back to this route will most likely be a bridge to when they IPO. Since Aptera is burning through more in one month (it's going to go way up) than they have raised through USCG in over three months. Handwriting is on the wall. Go back to crowdfunding.
Aptera is suffering the same thing Elio did. Paul had total control of the company and he even turned down investment because he would lose some. So, the well of money went dry and they were done. They even made the push for their Pi models (the called them e-Series) and that didn't help.
Turning down investors that use experienced people from the industry makes no sense to me. Building a vehicle is not the same as building a fishing reel. Yet some think they can do it all and it can be their downfall.
The share price is way to high all the other ev startups are down 90% or more. Aptera raising the price again when they can't get enough investment is beyond stupid.
Steve and Chris are in control and set the price. It might as well be $100 pps.
It's just a donation coupon. Doesn't matter what monopoly money number is written on it. It represents no equity and is printed at will.
I wish the aluminum was powder coated. Salt air will corrode aluminum.
I’m having Arcimoto flashbacks 🎈
Arcimoto sold vehicles. Their more capable $20K price should be a concern to fanboys.
@ As Arcimoto died. Do you think Aptera will this time?
@@tumbleweed1976 I think the suite of Aptera performance claims are unobtainable. I think there is no path to adequate funding. I think the 42kWh LE will be >$40K, not as desirable as preorder volume suggests. I don't know the details of qualifying for IPO but even if they achieve that, I don't expect a good outcome.
@@artsmith103 You and me are both on the same page sadly. I hope to be wrong.
Hope not enough retail investors are dumb enough to pay almost $15/share for this.
It would be one thing if this was 3 years ago and all this was happening but it’s not. The lack of interest for big investors is deafening and now they have to come back to the average Joe looking for more money.
You have no clue how a company is valued!
When I invested several years ago it was for 10k. They converted that at a later date to $3.80 per share. So my theoretical investment is now worth just under 39k. I don’t see people investing at that price point, $14.80, at this point in the company’s progress. Especially with the number of missed deadlines and engineering changes.
@@gmv0553 How do you value Aptera pursuing market of +$40K for a 2-seater.
So, they could not assemble two BINC themselves or apparently attach the doors without CPC technical help. That is pretty damning. The CTNS portion looked like it was staged for display and not seeing actual work being done. The process difference comes down to what they can afford and what CTNS can actually do, given their use of standard cylindrical cells all methods are well known in the industry.
I am not sure why you think any range and efficiency testing would be revealed at CES. They will likely parrot their 2019 claims and pricing where we know the pricing is misleading because they provide reservation holders a price over twenty percent less than they told US Capital Group; who do you think is being told the truth. Based on their past, I suspect if the numbers don't align with their promises they will try to sell everyone on the idea that these builds are not fully representative and further refinement will let them hit their numbers and or NDA with suppliers prevent them from revealing the true but very remarkable numbers.
Sorry but there was a lot of reused footage, blurred backgrounds, and tightly focused shots. There is no reason to use such shots unless they are less complete than they want to admit.
Their CES booth appears the be the 10x10 style which is the smallest entry available, put it this way, the Ring booth nearby is far larger. They are also in Central Plaza which is away from much of the show to include not being part of the automotive section. Across the street as part of the Central Plaza is the BMW show area. In other words they may not get much traffic being where they are. Go look it up yourself.
all claims of large investors were lies to keep people interested in giving them money. there is no interest because Steve and Chris granted themselves each FIFTEEN MILLION shares of voting stock and two other investors hold the other twenty six million shares of this stock. No monied investor is going to step into that type of arrangement. The share price going up looks to blunt the discount rate on the Convertible note as well as make the company appear more valuable than it truly is, after all most of that claimed value is based on granted shares - shares not paid for by anyone.
Remember that big investors are like the sharks of shark tank on TV, they always swoop in and grab all the profit in anything they put money into, they are not true investors, as they don’t take any risk. They just enrich themselves.
😂😂😂😂😂
Nobody is paying you to say all that
Aptera is always going to have an uphill battle for funding. There are too many interests that would be injured by the success of Aptera. This is a game changing vehicle in many ways, more than just the solar power. So until Aptera is inevitable it will be fighting against a current.
What are those interests in keeping Aptera from getting funding? Since you researched it, then let us know. Not just things like, big (insert name here). I have not seen a single thing that is holding Aptera beck but themselves.
If the trike was $15K with extreme simplicity it would change low end of market. At $40K it offers nothing but compromise for people looking to virtue signal. RVs and boats avg around 400W, did you hear of any revolution? A 2 seater can't reduce operating cost any measurable amount costing $40K.
Aptera, stop begging for money. Hand build and sell cars now. Pay for production tools as you can. Customers are ready to buy their Apteras now. Don't wait any longer. The 50,000 reservation holders are the calvary. Send me a kit, I'll assemble it myself.
ruclips.net/video/prd1ZGXuDnY/видео.html
So you are saying the almost 50,000 reservation holders will be crucified on Calvary?
@ApteraOwnersClub I've seen that video. I've watched all your videos and have them in a playlist. I'm a fan of yours. It's been 5 almost 6 years of designing and perfecting the Aptera. They can assemble the cars now while phasing in the production tools.
@@johnwdowelldefinitely no!
@@johnwdowell These PI you're looking at are very expensive. I don't think $75K is too high but I'm not an expert between machined and cast.
"From an idea to reality" what reality is steve living in?
In my opinion, with trump soon to be in office, aptera will be dead 😢
Sounds like a repeat of what they did to CARB in the mid2000s
Why? Aptera wasn’t getting any benefits of IRA and didn’t rely on it. Aptera can stand on its own. It’s a unique value proposition. Or do you think Trump will make it impossible to import parts from our trading partners?
I think the economy will collapse. Tariffs, deportations etc.
@@tims8603 Oh Vey! one of the voters for the Communists with his head in the sand. Trump is a successful business man, New York Style. And why will deporting ILLEGAL people cause the 'world to end'? Never mind, OP only listens to CNN- the view of an Independent Voter
No; I know you’ve likely been brainwashed by the legacy media but we’ll be in better shape. Anything is better than it is now.
It would be great if somebody Lilke @itsKyleConnor was asked by Aptera to drive a COMPLETE PI4 to CES to be met by the fans and Sandy Munro ! I will be there at CES !
Me too. I really look forward to seeing Kyle’s review, but it’ss jumping the gun a bit to do that before the first full production run. I think we’ll still see hardware changes and there is definitely software development needed, including integration into Tesla’s Supercharging network.
Kyle makes it a POLICY not to review cars that are not production, or 'one inch away' by a BIG NAME AUTO MAKER. "He fell on his face' when he reviewed some off brand EV that totally failed. he is not going to risk his income on an Aptera
@@harriettanthony7352 You’re right about Kyle‘s policy, and he’s committed to sticking to it. At the same time, he’s made it clear that he really likes Aptera and is very eager to review it as soon as it goes into production. I’m confident Aptera is going to reach production, so I’m looking forward to Kyle‘s Out of Spec review!