I’d say they should focus on smaller batteries that could get swapped at a pit stop. Design the car so that 2 people can quickly pull out the old one and team places another one.
@@franciscoshi1968yes, it's completely possible to install an automated machinery in a pit where it can just detach the drained battery and plug in a charged one underneath the car. The car just has to align right on the spot
Time will take car of the Energy density issues. Current battery tech is increasing battery Energy density at about 4% a year. Time is on the Battery’s side.
Exactly. People saying that EVs will never work at scale are the same sort of people that would have said the ICE car would never be more than a novelty for the wealthy in 1890. Give it a few decades and see. Then again, with prices of every vehicle rising so much over the last 15 years, it might still be out of reach for too many, but not because of energy density.
You're repeating a little bit of a fallacy there at the end. 3/4 of the energy in the gasoline that goes into the car is wasted as heat and noise, and I bet that number is even higher in NASCAR. So you don't need to replace the entire energy content of the gasoline with a battery, only about 1/4 of it. So that 2400 lb. battery to replace the 20 gallon tank is actually more like 600 lb.
@@AlRoderick with typical driving, it's even only about 20% that ends up being used for actually moving. @TwoBitDaVinci also didn't consider that an electric car recuperates, so in racing, you probably only need less than one fifth of the energy. But there is a catch: you would need to recharge the battery during a race, much like you would currently refuel. Assuming that those groups of 4 refill cans are what is typically used in a race, you'd still need a lot of battery capacity or a way to swap batteries during the race.
Given that regen wouldn't help meaningfully on many tracks and that gas is refilled at pit stops that are too short for charging, Ricky's approximation is pretty reasonable; you'd need a LOT of weight in battery to supply enough energy for the whole race. It's okay that battery energy density is terrible; it doesn't have to be good to still be a good solution for a lot of applications.
Has anyone done rely racing in cars? I bunch of laps with gas and then another driver in an EV and back to gas or whatever. It could be a cool way to introduce the tech. Also, electric motors can sound awesome so amplifying the natural sound with mics and speakers could be fun. I think fans would be surprised how fast an EV can go and how it could ‘change the game” - literally.
I do worry about the fire hazards of a damaged battery pack, and of course the low interest for E-racing. Several E-racing championships have been discontinued due to no interest form the viewers.
Second? Edit: I am doubtful about them becoming carbon neutral, but I am glad that they're trying. And, yeah. Transporting everything is the biggest part of their emissions. So anything they can do for that is actually pretty cool.
That’s is not the first race ev and not the fastest 🤪 And i see a lot of haters here, and I disagree with all of them, specially with those who never driven performance EV
A true gearhead is interested in performance, not maintaining a misguided loyalty towards tradition. If technology makes a car faster, that is the only thing that matters in racing, the one who crosses the finish line first wins, not the one who still uses old technologies. As the old ways of thinking start interfering with the ability to win, the smart money will migrate to ideas that give fans the biggest thrills.
Wait! There is a solution to the racing sound of a gas racing engine. To insure that all fans are happy they will mount a 15" woofer speaker tied to a 1000 watt amplifier and a micro computer that that produces the sound of a NASCAR engine in sync with the EV NASCAR's accelerator in each of the racing cars. Or maybe head phones for the spectators that add the roar of the engines to the race.
I don't think most spectators would be all that interested in an imitation, but maybe I'm wrong. 1000 watts and a 15" woofer would be actually pretty close to as loud, but only if a very efficient enclosure were used. And that would probably add 200 lbs to the vehicle.
NASCAR had wings in the 60s then outlawed them till the COT then removed them again. Horsepower is limited along with other design changes to reduce top speed due to aerodynamic safety related issues putting fans at risk. Smell and sound are part of the heritage of auto racing that have been fan draw for decades. The racing paradigm shift may not come so easy until us old guys are all all gone.
Yeah, NASCAR fans are different than you in regards to cars. Most of them are die-hard naturally aspirated American muscle fans. The boom in the chest feeling is NASCAR. It adds to the adrenaline rush. Go to a NASCAR race in person and then watch a playback at home with the sound at a level you would use for the nightly news. That difference is what the NASCAR fan will miss if the cars go electric. This doesn't even take into consideration the adrenaline from a pit stop taking 10 seconds or less. Can't recharge a battery to the equivalent amount of fuel dumped into a car tank at retail pumps much less the speed of a NASCAR fuel can.
Feel free to thank NASCAR for the video downvote. There’s no excuse for them being so childish for not allowing a single second of on-track, in-car video. My personal track day footage had both an internal and external camera.
I foresee a day when the ICE will go the way of the steam engine. It'll be nothing but a novelty. The sooner the better in mho. The ICE took over the steam engine because of the ICEs greater efficiency. The same will happen to the ICE when replaced by EVs, the only reason why it has not so far is simply because of greed. One day, even EVs will be replaced.
Yes, someday ICE will be obsolete, but that day is not close. If greed were the primary factor and EVs were actually better in all or even most use cases, greed would have accelerated adoption by front loading capital to capture market share, not slowed it. There are some applications where EVs make more sense than ICE, but for too many, battery tech's high price and abysmal energy density relative to gas, diesel, and kerosene keep it from dominance. Its day is coming but not this decade. Maybe not the next one either. And I like EVs. I'd have one myself if it made any kind of economic sense for me.
@danielchin8073 🤣, BEVs are developing rapidly. ICE is as far as it can get. Assuming the impetus remains in developing battery tech BEVs will out do ICE in every respect, this decade.
I agree except for the timeline. For my own use, if battery tech continues to improve at 4-6%/year, it'll still be at least a decade before the economics tip in favor of owning a BEV even with my rooftop solar. This is more like ICE in 1890 or 1900, not 1940. I'd even hear an argument for it being like 1910, but even though there are some good BEVs out now, that doesn't mean that the economics work out for them to become dominant over ICE yet or even soon. I hope I'm wrong or that there's some breakthrough that changes that though.
With all the information about rubber and it ending up in my food, I'm surprised we still have racing period. Though it does seem to attract high IQ folks😊
It would have to be done with a forklift or other machinery - you couldn't just do it with the crew's muscles. But others have considered this idea too. I know of no reason it couldn't work in a heavily regulated race format, though it would be hard to get passenger cars to share a shape and size and cooling solution.
It's obvious that NASCAR wants this vehicle to fail because they decided to design the ugliest, least aerodynamic SUV, which is not anything like the sedans that they've been racing for all along! There are reasons why they try to make their car appear to be road-relevant [mustangs Camaros, Camrys] not an androgynous, unknown design blobs! Plus, NASCAR knows that their racing fanbase wants to hear a lot of noise not electric whining sounds! If they really want electric racing to succeed then they would design racing hybrids like the world endurance hybrid racing 'le mans' cars!
Because is a platform to evolve full electric vehicle. Just like the f1 and formula e with the hybrid and electric powertrain. Power management is very difficult.
If you wanna run all of the NASCAR fans off, continue with this idea. There is absolutely positively nothing exciting about an electric race car. You’re gonna have the heart and soul of the racing taken away from it. They’ll be back to gas engines by 2040 guaranteed so stupidest idea I’ve ever heard there’s plenty of fuels that can replace the carbon problem so you say
at some point they will have no option to go back to gas .. government is trying to get rid of gas vehicles .. no matter what fans think .. it needs to happen they have no choice
100% For those of us who've grown up participating and watching in motor sports, the introduction of EV's is a complete deal breaker. If you want a separate series go for it, but if you're replacing ICE engines, I'm out. I'm tired of hearing about carbon neutral this or that. The research dollars need to go into clean fuels not batteries. What about safety, now your have an even heavier car moving at these speeds making the risk to the drivers even greater. Just say no to EV's in motor sports.
no changes happening to traditional nascar, this would be gauging interest for a new different electric series. people love NASCAR as it is and its not going anywhere. cheers
@Glad no changes are planned. As you probably have discovered, I would say the majority of motor sports fans could care less about sustainability and its carbon foot print. I would bet there is zero interest from fans on an EV series. Just my $.02.
Either it would be an extremely short race or there would be an extremely long charging intermission. Neither are very spectator friendly. EV’s are not the future! No matter how much you want them to be.
Crap like this will end NASCAR all together guaranteed! They already struggle to keep folks with the uniform engine and designs etc.. Which ruins the entire irot and this with no sound will be adios bye bye cya later
I appreciate the comment, but they have zero plans of replacing the internal combustion cars! They want to be more energy independent in their operations, and possible gage interest in a new electric race, like formula E.
Come on....its much more about the gas usaage before the green flag not how little during the race. Then they are trying hard to conserve fuel. Dont be a tool.
This episode is a great example of you can't please all the people all the time so you just gotta please yourself. Keep up the good work Ricky!
I’d say they should focus on smaller batteries that could get swapped at a pit stop. Design the car so that 2 people can quickly pull out the old one and team places another one.
Or simply have two cars per driver. Jump out of one that can have its battery swapped at leisure while the driver continues the race.
I am sure with some money spent it will be possible to swap a battery in under 10s.
@@franciscoshi1968 Maybe.
@@franciscoshi1968yes, it's completely possible to install an automated machinery in a pit where it can just detach the drained battery and plug in a charged one underneath the car. The car just has to align right on the spot
5:14 that is a gear box whining, not electric motor. FormulaE sounds the same and they commented on the sound many times.
Nice to see a EV test mule here in Nascar 😊
Time will take car of the Energy density issues.
Current battery tech is increasing battery Energy density at about 4% a year.
Time is on the Battery’s side.
NASCAR doesn't use much fuel. The total distance traveled is around 2 fill ups for an average car or truck.
Exactly. People saying that EVs will never work at scale are the same sort of people that would have said the ICE car would never be more than a novelty for the wealthy in 1890. Give it a few decades and see. Then again, with prices of every vehicle rising so much over the last 15 years, it might still be out of reach for too many, but not because of energy density.
You're repeating a little bit of a fallacy there at the end. 3/4 of the energy in the gasoline that goes into the car is wasted as heat and noise, and I bet that number is even higher in NASCAR. So you don't need to replace the entire energy content of the gasoline with a battery, only about 1/4 of it. So that 2400 lb. battery to replace the 20 gallon tank is actually more like 600 lb.
@@AlRoderick with typical driving, it's even only about 20% that ends up being used for actually moving.
@TwoBitDaVinci also didn't consider that an electric car recuperates, so in racing, you probably only need less than one fifth of the energy.
But there is a catch: you would need to recharge the battery during a race, much like you would currently refuel.
Assuming that those groups of 4 refill cans are what is typically used in a race, you'd still need a lot of battery capacity or a way to swap batteries during the race.
The distances are so short relatively to people driving. The longest NASCAR race is 619 miles which is basically 2 tanks of gas for most cars.
Given that regen wouldn't help meaningfully on many tracks and that gas is refilled at pit stops that are too short for charging, Ricky's approximation is pretty reasonable; you'd need a LOT of weight in battery to supply enough energy for the whole race. It's okay that battery energy density is terrible; it doesn't have to be good to still be a good solution for a lot of applications.
Right, they need to quick change the battery like they used to do with lug wheels
Yes, there is a future for electric racing.
Has anyone done rely racing in cars? I bunch of laps with gas and then another driver in an EV and back to gas or whatever. It could be a cool way to introduce the tech. Also, electric motors can sound awesome so amplifying the natural sound with mics and speakers could be fun. I think fans would be surprised how fast an EV can go and how it could ‘change the game” - literally.
I do worry about the fire hazards of a damaged battery pack, and of course the low interest for E-racing. Several E-racing championships have been discontinued due to no interest form the viewers.
Second?
Edit: I am doubtful about them becoming carbon neutral, but I am glad that they're trying. And, yeah. Transporting everything is the biggest part of their emissions. So anything they can do for that is actually pretty cool.
That’s is not the first race ev and not the fastest 🤪 And i see a lot of haters here, and I disagree with all of them, specially with those who never driven performance EV
There WILL be an end to burning shit. Including in racing!
A true gearhead is interested in performance, not maintaining a misguided loyalty towards tradition. If technology makes a car faster, that is the only thing that matters in racing, the one who crosses the finish line first wins, not the one who still uses old technologies. As the old ways of thinking start interfering with the ability to win, the smart money will migrate to ideas that give fans the biggest thrills.
Everyday we go further from the origin of "stock car racing"
Gasoline is also lighter than water too, even better when it comes to power density.
Wait! There is a solution to the racing sound of a gas racing engine. To insure that all fans are happy they will mount a 15" woofer speaker tied to a 1000 watt amplifier and a micro computer that that produces the sound of a NASCAR engine in sync with the EV NASCAR's accelerator in each of the racing cars. Or maybe head phones for the spectators that add the roar of the engines to the race.
I don't think most spectators would be all that interested in an imitation, but maybe I'm wrong. 1000 watts and a 15" woofer would be actually pretty close to as loud, but only if a very efficient enclosure were used. And that would probably add 200 lbs to the vehicle.
Thanks for the video
NASCAR had wings in the 60s then outlawed them till the COT then removed them again. Horsepower is limited along with other design changes to reduce top speed due to aerodynamic safety related issues putting fans at risk. Smell and sound are part of the heritage of auto racing that have been fan draw for decades. The racing paradigm shift may not come so easy until us old guys are all all gone.
Love how nascar fans immediately shut this shit down
We need a 20 lap 1 on 1
Formula Drift is the only "stock car" left. They start out as ACTIAL road legal production cars.
It wasn't that long ago that they used leaded fuel
that car looks like it came from Europe.
The model S by Tesla goes 0-60 in 1.7s it’s fast and smooth nascar is about speed and precision
Why no consideration of ethanol or synthetic gasoline? That would be sustainable.
Yeah, NASCAR fans are different than you in regards to cars. Most of them are die-hard naturally aspirated American muscle fans. The boom in the chest feeling is NASCAR. It adds to the adrenaline rush. Go to a NASCAR race in person and then watch a playback at home with the sound at a level you would use for the nightly news. That difference is what the NASCAR fan will miss if the cars go electric. This doesn't even take into consideration the adrenaline from a pit stop taking 10 seconds or less. Can't recharge a battery to the equivalent amount of fuel dumped into a car tank at retail pumps much less the speed of a NASCAR fuel can.
Feel free to thank NASCAR for the video downvote.
There’s no excuse for them being so childish for not allowing a single second of on-track, in-car video.
My personal track day footage had both an internal and external camera.
I foresee a day when the ICE will go the way of the steam engine. It'll be nothing but a novelty. The sooner the better in mho. The ICE took over the steam engine because of the ICEs greater efficiency. The same will happen to the ICE when replaced by EVs, the only reason why it has not so far is simply because of greed. One day, even EVs will be replaced.
Yes, someday ICE will be obsolete, but that day is not close. If greed were the primary factor and EVs were actually better in all or even most use cases, greed would have accelerated adoption by front loading capital to capture market share, not slowed it. There are some applications where EVs make more sense than ICE, but for too many, battery tech's high price and abysmal energy density relative to gas, diesel, and kerosene keep it from dominance. Its day is coming but not this decade. Maybe not the next one either. And I like EVs. I'd have one myself if it made any kind of economic sense for me.
@danielchin8073 🤣, BEVs are developing rapidly. ICE is as far as it can get. Assuming the impetus remains in developing battery tech BEVs will out do ICE in every respect, this decade.
I agree except for the timeline. For my own use, if battery tech continues to improve at 4-6%/year, it'll still be at least a decade before the economics tip in favor of owning a BEV even with my rooftop solar. This is more like ICE in 1890 or 1900, not 1940. I'd even hear an argument for it being like 1910, but even though there are some good BEVs out now, that doesn't mean that the economics work out for them to become dominant over ICE yet or even soon. I hope I'm wrong or that there's some breakthrough that changes that though.
With all the information about rubber and it ending up in my food, I'm surprised we still have racing period. Though it does seem to attract high IQ folks😊
When it comes to EV why don't we just make them replaceable like old phone batteries?
It would have to be done with a forklift or other machinery - you couldn't just do it with the crew's muscles. But others have considered this idea too. I know of no reason it couldn't work in a heavily regulated race format, though it would be hard to get passenger cars to share a shape and size and cooling solution.
It’s NASCAR, but NASCAR has been gone for years so why not go electric. Leave out the carbon neutral propaganda and just present it for what it is.
I hate it 😢
It's obvious that NASCAR wants this vehicle to fail because they decided to design the ugliest, least aerodynamic SUV, which is not anything like the sedans that they've been racing for all along! There are reasons why they try to make their car appear to be road-relevant [mustangs Camaros, Camrys] not an androgynous, unknown design blobs! Plus, NASCAR knows that their racing fanbase wants to hear a lot of noise not electric whining sounds! If they really want electric racing to succeed then they would design racing hybrids like the world endurance hybrid racing 'le mans' cars!
You should understand how a gasoline race car works before you try to compare the 2.
Why not a gas engine charging the batteries and E-drive first.
Because is a platform to evolve full electric vehicle. Just like the f1 and formula e with the hybrid and electric powertrain.
Power management is very difficult.
Please stop calling it a NASCAR.
If you wanna run all of the NASCAR fans off, continue with this idea. There is absolutely positively nothing exciting about an electric race car. You’re gonna have the heart and soul of the racing taken away from it. They’ll be back to gas engines by 2040 guaranteed so stupidest idea I’ve ever heard there’s plenty of fuels that can replace the carbon problem so you say
Agree
at some point they will have no option to go back to gas .. government is trying to get rid of gas vehicles .. no matter what fans think .. it needs to happen they have no choice
100% For those of us who've grown up participating and watching in motor sports, the introduction of EV's is a complete deal breaker. If you want a separate series go for it, but if you're replacing ICE engines, I'm out. I'm tired of hearing about carbon neutral this or that. The research dollars need to go into clean fuels not batteries. What about safety, now your have an even heavier car moving at these speeds making the risk to the drivers even greater. Just say no to EV's in motor sports.
no changes happening to traditional nascar, this would be gauging interest for a new different electric series. people love NASCAR as it is and its not going anywhere. cheers
@Glad no changes are planned. As you probably have discovered, I would say the majority of motor sports fans could care less about sustainability and its carbon foot print. I would bet there is zero interest from fans on an EV series. Just my $.02.
Either it would be an extremely short race or there would be an extremely long charging intermission.
Neither are very spectator friendly.
EV’s are not the future! No matter how much you want them to be.
Crap like this will end NASCAR all together guaranteed! They already struggle to keep folks with the uniform engine and designs etc.. Which ruins the entire irot and this with no sound will be adios bye bye cya later
I appreciate the comment, but they have zero plans of replacing the internal combustion cars! They want to be more energy independent in their operations, and possible gage interest in a new electric race, like formula E.
@@TwoBitDaVincinope. Get the ICE removed ASAP.
Come on....its much more about the gas usaage before the green flag not how little during the race. Then they are trying hard to conserve fuel. Dont be a tool.
Boriiiing
Gross and disgusting.. more like this and I unsubscribe...
can you elaborate?
@@TwoBitDaVinci I just subscribed instead, dont worry.