DON'T Buy the Max Pack Rivian.
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2023
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50 more miles range is a game changer, it gives you the ability to go many places you couldn't go before and not leave you stranded! So yes, it's absolutely worth it.
@@TailosiveEV yes, I road trip all the time. That's why I bought a new Plaid, because I needed the extra range going up into the Adirondacks and I don't have to wait forever for it to charge all the way because the battery is bigger and has more range so I don't need to charge to 100%.
That and it's a 90 mile difference between the two...
If you're off-roading, an extra 50 miles is huge. There are definitely use cases for this. The lack of supercharging and NACS keeps me away.
@@TailosiveEV Given the max pack is only like a 20 mile increase in range over a quad, that's a good point. I missed that. The quad definitely has off-road advantages even if they simulate a locking differential with computerized braking.
For the record EPA: DM Max - 410, DM Large 352, QM Large 321.
@@TailosiveEVmany categories of offroading. Quad motor would be a must for rock crawling. Trailing running or overlanding better off with dual max. Cover more distance, less weight, less technical offroading. I do both, but do the latter more so I actually will probably hold out for 500 mi CT or other offroader
@domg7359 Isn't NACS and Supercharging coming in 2025 to Rivian like most other EV makers?
@@StefanoPrezioso supercharging in spring 2024 with Tesla access. NACS standard after that in the cars.
This opinion doesn't really make sense, if you want more range then a max pack makes sense, it definitely costs more per dollar per mile, but people spending 90K on a truck probably don't care.
Agreed…he and Kyle both talk about max pack in cold weather and compare it to the large pack at 350 (as if it is isn’t the cold).
The charge curve argument is silly too.
You have a couple accidental fallacies in this. A larger pack will maintain peak charge curve longer. Therefore a larger pack will get more miles per unit of time than a smaller pack with the same percentage based charge curve. If an LFP at 100% has the same range as nickel at 80% then the charge curve becomes a massive game changer. 20 to 80% is simular in charger time but that's significantly more range between charges when compared to LFP.
@@TailosiveEV also a factor of time. Takes longer to heat soak more cells and mass with the same ineffective cooling system.
I thought they changed the cooling system with dual@@WentzCraft
I’m reserving judgment until we see the charging curves compared. Having a longer sustained peak charge rate would make it worth it.
I am looking at another R1T... I have had my Large Quad Motor truck for over 2 years now and absolutely love it... however, I live in Naples, FL and it is just the right distance to get to Miami and back on a full charge (but barely) and I can't make it to Tampa and back on a single charge... so the difference in 330 miles for the Large pack and 420 miles for the Max pack is the difference of me charging or not on those trips... so I hear what you are saying for most people, but for me, it is very much an advantage to get the Max pack over the Large pack. 90 MILES is also much more than 50 MILES... BIGGGGG difference... and from a 2+ year Rivian owner the mileage seems to be pretty accurate and I definitely use my full charge by going to 100% before a long road trip.
hint they probably dont want u to order the max pk hence the price premium but if ur willing to pay for it then good for u
I think this would be a problem whether you have nacs or not. The batterypack is huge. Most home networks cant handle it and MPGe cost also matters, especially if you want to go electric to avoid paying for gas. It depends on the area but where I live in mountain view California, electricity is 40 cents a kilowatt WITH tesla solar, and we have a reasonably beefy system where it can power our car and our house. The reason why it is so expensive is because the morons at PG&E (power gas and electric) charge 28 cents per kilowatt just to bring it to our house. I wouldn't recommend getting an ev unless it exceeds 110 mpge (at least where we live). We were considering a rivian to replace our rav4 hybrid, but it costs EXACTLY THE SAME TO RUN.
Imo, the fact that you can even compare a much larger and more useful pickup truck to a compact crossover is actually pretty impressive.
Frustrates me so much that California is the green state etc etc, however the cost of electricity is ridiculous.
I dont hate the rivian, infact I like it a lot. The thing is that our rav4 averages 30mpg, and the running costs are exactly the same despite the fact that electricity is supposed to be cheaper :|@@theproffessional9
Pretty sure it’s Pacific gas and electric, and no they don’t charge you for the solar energy you produce. EVs will always be cheaper than gas cars to operate, especially with solar. I’ve got the same setup and in the Bay Area too with pge, 2 EVs and we get a check from pge every year
A bit of misinformation here.
The Max pack is not 180kwh it is only 149kwh & only 11kwh more useable kw.
This equates to approximately 25miles of extra highway range.
It's not exactly difficult to set the charge limit to 80% on a Tesla. Set it one time and it will forever after charge at 80%.
If you happen to want more range for that occasional weekend trip, you just raise it to 95 or 100%. It's just a matter of a swipe on the phone app or vehicle screen. It's not calculus. You'll have the longer range if you need it or just want it.
All valid points. I just received my R1S with large pack, Quad motors, and 20" wheels and have been quite pleased with the range. I'm looking forward to testing it out on camping and remote-area trips to see if I'm still OK with the large battery. The Max Pack would be nice for remote areas, but the large pack that I have may be perfectly fine, especially since Rivian seems to have gotten the vampire drain problem under control. We'll see.
The need for the Max Pack is definite use case specific. I had the grandfathered pricing for the R1T, so the upgrade for the Max Pack was slightly cheaper than $10K. I also live in WV, the DC fast charging desert of the US. I make several trips to the mountains throughout the year, and that extra range gives me the ability to do the trip without the worry of having to charge. It's great that Rivian now has access to the Supercharging network, but the V3 unit that we use to charge our Model Y on the same trip is not yet open to Ford or Rivian EVs 🤪.
I have a R1S with the quad motor on 21-in wheels ( aero covers off) and I'm averaging 2.28 mi per kwh at 75 mph on my 80 mi round trip to work. That's phenomenal.
My last EV was a 2018 long range model 3 dual motor. 310 miles range was quoted, I never got better than 180 to 200 at highway speeds.
downhill? R1S with no A/C at 75mph no wind its 1/2 that.
@@user-wf6cn6zv1j that sounds like an issue. Better get it into the service center.
The maximum charge speed is typically only sustained for a very short time, so you really need to look at how many miles of range can be added in 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes and 40 minutes from various states of charge, for a 70 mph highway speed.
What's the payload difference?
When I am invited to spec my, on order, R1T, i will go with the dual motor, and small pack. and just add the crossbar. silver/black/woof interior. I know i will have enough battery juice to stop along the way when I drive longer distances. 73 k is not a bad price with this config, although my recently purchased lightning, with 320 miles extended battery range, lariat, with some extras, cost me about the same.
I have gone solar this week, and with the pro charger from ford, i am charging for free at home, using the power of the Sun only. Now that's the way to drive free.
If the Rivian was using NCAS connector and had a bed big enough to hold my fat tire e-bike then I would definitely get dual motor with Large Pack. I think LFP batteries don’t make sense if you plan to use a truck for truck stuff.
NACS is coming in 2025 to Rivian and many other EVs
You don't need to use the entirety of the bed for your bike. You get a tailgate pad and a loading ramp, lean the bike while you close the tailgate, then put the front wheel over as usual. I know people roll with motorcycles in the bed of Mavericks with the tailgate down so you can certainly do that with the Rivian as well.
Wish these were available in the UK
Maybe they’ll uncork faster charging on the max pack once they’ve been in use for a while and they can confirm they’ll handle it. Just based on the C-rate concept, a larger pack should be able to charge faster.
High performance dual motor is very similar priced to quad motor. You only really benefit in price worth the standard dual motor.
I daily my max pack dual motor. It’s a lot quieter than the quad motor. Yeah it’s not as fast but it’s still the 0 to 60 in under 3.5. I do not road trip. Unfortunate. I have two other vehicles that are gas powered. This is my first electric, and I can admit that I was wrong, I didn’t realize that the electric vehicles are refueled very differently than a conventional combustion vehicle. You don’t have a gas station at your house. You do, however, have a charger and no matter the range, I just plug it in when I get home from work. When I do get out of the city, it is nice to know that I have plenty of range.
If your road trip is 310-360 miles one way, assuming you want 10% left over, it absolutely would matter. Just charge at the hotel for free when you get there. So delta (50 miles) / 360 means it matters about 15% of road trips up to 360, less for longer trips because mpge goes down meaning more charge time.
Okay, for example, I live in Little Rock. I would be way more comfortable trying to make it all the way to kansas city, st louis, dallas-ft worth, okc, or Nashville on a single charge if I had max pack instead of large pack
the silverado EV has 450 epa
Some people live in cold climates, and we need extra capacity to makeup for cold weather loss. Try driving far when its
So the extra 25 miles is worth paying $10K more?
@@TailosiveEVwhen you say this, it’s like you compare it to large pack that is not in the cold.
I definitely would like the more range, instead of charging to 90% everyday I would charge to 70% unless I needed more and then It would be cheaper then supercharging, plus it’s less cycling of the battery per mile, that matters for people like me that drive 40,000 miles a year plus the charger curve is better if your fast charging to 70% of a pack then 90#
Well let’s just say I get the max pack and in my daily commute I don’t even have to go to a fast charger because of that little bit of extra range I make it home or to a hotel if I’m on a road trip and I plug into a destinations charger that just save me a lot of time and time is money my friend it’s worth it to some people.
I would wait.. prices will need to come down.. get the Dual motor large pack if you must.. We have a R1S due to the price locked in.. but Rivian will need to lower prices to keep up with Tesla.
The pack size didn't increase that much I believe, it is mainly a different chemistry.
I have the quad. I love the quad... I do want the 400 miles.... but I love my A/T
I wish to own one of these one day !!!
i saw a cybertruck in la
You make a bunch of fair points. The DM Max pack offers 16% more range than the DM Large pack and 28% more range than the QM Large pack. Now is a $10k up charge worth a 16% range boost. I suspect to some people it will be the same way they pay 2X the cost for titanium golf clubs or carbon fiber bicycles. Also pointing out one fallacy in your video, no way this thing will be 180kWh if it was the range would be much bigger. Do the math yourself considering the large pack is ~135kWh with about 128kWh usable. Either way I still got mileage to put on my QM large pack, for the record CCS has not been an issue for me and I am pushing 46k miles.
Yes
How is the Silverado at 450 miles not the top range EV pickup?
not in production
@@scotthall1381 several months ago there were a bunch of reviews leading me to believe it was being shipped to fleet customers. I no longer believe that is the case.
For a CCS car even 500 miles isn’t enough 😂. But once they switch to NACS 400 miles is very nice for rural areas where there aren’t supercharges. Yes if you live in California you might be like “there’s supercharges everywhere” and I envy you. But I live in Boise Idaho (the capital) and there’s 1 supercharger and 1 EA charger. And when we go into the middle of the state there’s 0 for hundreds of miles. I’ve almost run out of range on my M3P with 315 miles of range on a 190 mile trip. Tesla really neglects these smaller states even though there are so many Teslas here
@@TailosiveEV I just got luck and found a random nema 14-50 at a hotel and charged there for an hour. If someone else was there, then good luck to me. Plus I have to leave my car in the town and take a friends gas car if we want to go further up. Charger network is very limited even today
I drive everywhere and installing my own 240 outlet in my garage is enough. I have chargers everywhere in Illinois but i never use them and i have 280 with my model Y. Have 350 miles and a home charger isn’t enough?
In the inner states, you need as much range as possible. Rivian is very conservative with EPA unlike over-exaggerated Tesla. 410 miles probably is like 460 miles of Tesla.
@@TailosiveEVsomeone towing a boat Boise-McCall round trip will want 400-450 miles of range. Boise-Redfish Lake RT is still out of range. Would need well over 500 miles range. There are currently zero DCFC on either of these routes and almost no level 2.
For now, towing out of town is not practical in Idaho.
@@jacobB1290Hthe Super 8 in Grangeville has multiple level 2, if you’re headed that direction. We stayed there specifically to charge on the way to Glacier NP. MYLR
Don’t tell me what not to buy!!
Something seems off with the numbers. If 135 kWh yields 350 EPA rated miles, you’d only need 154 kWh to get 400 miles. But you said it’s close to 180 kWh? Is the extra weight that big a drag on efficiency?
Maybe to compensate for extra battery weight 😅🤷
Prob so
Cant be much added mass due to the exact same volume of battery compartment space. For sure added weight but not that much.
Probably over beating EPA at 430~450. Rivian is very conservative.
@@ChinoBingo why would they be more conservative with the max pack? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Your analysis is entirely incorrect. Please research how the charge curve is affected by battery size, and you will see that the effect is exactly in the opposite direction as you describe. A larger battery pack connected to a limited charger (e.g. 150KWh) doesn't start flattening until a higher percentage than a smaller battery pack (and a higher percentage of a larger battery pack means an even higher charge at that point), and what's more the charge speed limit is per cell, so if you have more cells your "flattened" curve is steeper than with a smaller pack. So it's precisely because of the fact that changing a battery to a higher percentage is slower than charging it to a lower level that a larger battery pack is *much* better than a smaller pack for long trips. You charge at the same speed the first 50% or so of the pack (which gives you more range in the larger pack) and after you reach the part where you are limited by chemistry the battery charges faster by the same proportion as the ratio between battery sizes.
The Max pack not only gives you more range, it also charges faster to higher charges, which is the opposite of what you claimed.
PR? Just like Lucid with their 500 miles car and no where to charge.😢
Rivian’s can charge at Tesla’s charging network now.
@Kingofthenorf420 * in 2025.* u forgot that part.
With a range of 500 miles, just charge it at home once every week or two. You can do that 50 weeks per year. Rent an ICE car if you're taking a 2,000 mile road trip for the two weeks of vacation that most Americans have every year.
If you're driving a Lucid, hopefully you're not poor, or living in a small apartment in the suburbs.
This makes the cybertruck useless yeah the charging may not be great but then again it will tow for more than 100 miles so it’s a tradeoff
You're just unwittingly selling just getting gas truck for those use cases xD
If you’re buying a truck to be a truck electric is the wrong choice anyway
A bigger battery for more towing capacity at $10k makes more sense than a beta driving feature thats been promised to be able to drive people coast to coast with zero intervention for almost a decade now and which cost $15k...
I love the FSD, subscribed my MYLR at 199/m, works great. Can't SEE MYSELF W/O IT NOW. it's MUCH BETTER AND IT KEEPS IMPROVING. definitely it DRIVES SAFER THAN ME.!!
Couldn't agree more!
Spoken like a guy that's never towed with a EV.
@TailosiveEV I towed the day I posted this. Lots of small trips with even a light trailer at speed add up. I ran down my Model X to 5% SoC and ended up having to trickle charge at the site I was working at because I didn't have enough charge to make it home. It was fine, but I worked until 9 PM, which it would have been nice to have more choice in the matter. This problem probably won't go away until 500 mile range towing worthy EVs exist, but every little bit does count.