Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. I nearly 60YO, I’m a car enthusiast and was talking to a much younger work colleague recently, who is a big Audi fan. I suggested that they may well go bust and disappear, he pretty much laughed at me, saying that could never happen. So I told him about my early life, when British roads were populated with a very different mix of cars. What happened to Singer, Hillman, Simca, Talbot, Wolsely, Morris, Austin, Triumph just off the tip of my tongue. We Googled some images of these old car makes. He still doesn’t think things will change, but then I never thought that when I was his age. Things do change.
I’m 58 and it’s time for things to be shaken up (again). I remember the 70’sand 80’s brands who then disappeared into the 90’s. The incumbents have been there too long now and they will change. You’re right, when you’re young you haven’t seen it in action to understand it’s inevitable.
Hi youngster, All too true Simon. Companies like car factories and banks are all too big to fail ... until they do. I still like Elon's quote "the future should look like the future"
You can not compare a rotten british car industry with a audi group which had been growing for how many decades ? In 1994 Audi sold 375.000 cars and had a turnover of 9 billion euros. In 2023 Audi sold 1.900.000 cars and had a turnover of 70 billion euros (of cause incl. inflation , but without the 71% in the DM € Zone still 41 billion) Oh key figures (without inflation) might be lower like average turnover per car. Yes, but before 1994 Audi did not sell any car below the Audi 80 aka A4 which had been all introduced later when Piech had left Audi already to take over VW CEO. And now let me now the big upswing of these british car manufacturers: Singer, Hillman, Simca, Talbot, Wolsely, Morris, Austin, Triumph 3 decades of growth and then they died within a year ? You missed the key history: VW had been on the verge of bankrupcy already - shortly after the german unification around 1993 And Ferdinand Piech had saved the whole with a lot of bright and smart ideas step by step and he was the found of what later became the big VW group and grew a lot faster than Mercedes. Time will tell, but in the past the german car industry had been written of by McKinsey and others mutliple times like inthe early 90s where they claimed that BMW and german car manufacturers were not good and capable in the only area where they expected market growth: electronics Manager magzin had such headlines over and over again and never brought the opposite headline how terrible wrong they were back then. If times are tough germans stand together and even the unions have learned economics one way or the other that you can not milk a dead cow. So they will adjust and the labor costs will decrease as it has happened before - for example in the 90s. Germany has still a big production, UK has given up - or compare the ship production capacities of the UK with the german which must be astonishing for a nation that lived from the sea and trade and invented "made in germany" which became a badge for outstanding quality otherwise those products would not have been sold across the globe. UK is finance only, maybe a bit of lloyds and insurcances and what else ? Dyson and Aston Martin ... We can live with a decreasing economy cause we have no more skilled and well educated workers, only those with weak skills, mostly immigrants. And that is the core issue, the quality of their work cause they are working in street construction and that is bad. Our boardwalk has been rebuild a 2nd time in 40 years by such a working group where no one was able to speak german. They were laying the glas fiber cable for faster internet and now 2 years later the boardwalk starts sinking . They will have to redo the whole street in a few years once the damage is so big that it is above the DIN regulations. Skilled workes with a good education and of cause language skills are missing and 1 big reason for a declining gdp everyone had seen coming for years.
A lot of those were badge engineered versions of the same brand i.e. Singer and Hillman (together with Sunbeam & Humber) were Rootes group brands rebadged again with subsequent takeovers as Chrysler & Talbot and Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley MG, Triumph, Rover all British Leyland so yes lots of changes, buy outs, government ownership etc back then… although nothing like the firmament that’s likely to ensue with the ongoing transition to EVs .. fascinating stuff and I’m nearly 62 so have seen a lot of this history at first hand too!
I have an older B8 A4 Avant Audi which I love. My Dad drove Toyotas and Fords his whole life and had a string of Toyota Camry’s with a new one every 4-5 years. First drive he had in my Audi he said. “Wow, this is a nice car.” I helped my brother fix up his Camry after hitting a kangaroo. Drove it and thought to myself. “Wow, this is like driving a boat.” Chalk and cheese.
Hi Dave, I was at the Zurich car show here in Switzerland and had the opportunity to drive several EV’s. From a Lucid to a MG MX-4. The MG stand was offering great EV’s at a price that made me just go wow 😮. People were swarming over the cars in the show. There were several other EV manufacturers on show from China as well. The prices and quality is amazing. When went to VW there was no one and I mean no one looking at ID range and the prices were ridiculous. Tells me a lot about the German car manufacturers.
The root cause is that traditional established motor manufacturers assumed they would switch over from making ICE cars to EVs and maintain their market share. The problem is it’s easier to start a new brand to build EVs than it is to retool an existing ICE manufacturer. Today’s premium brands that ruled the ICE market will no longer exist in the future as EV manufacturers or at least not in their current form. An EV is a computer on wheels, nobody cares about premium brands or badges, EVs are a commodity and they all do the same job more or less.
Bought a VW 18 years ago, the turbo blew up at exactly 100K.km, I said never ever a VW. Bought a Volvo before it was Chinese, I still have it, 200K.km, rock solid. Bought a Lexus, 60K.km, great car, zero issue, people at the dealership know my name and always come toward me smiling. Everytime I go to any Audi dealership, I'm looked over with contempt, just black trims for display, black interiors, hard plank seats, dark, sad and no more analog buttons...A big NOP. As far as I'm concerned, V.A.G can disappear, they've got nothing for me, I don't care 🤷♂️
Reliability has definitely for all VAG cars while prices through the roof ... It is not sustainable! Audi, start building reliable cars that people can afford like you used to do!
Look in the mirror and check out the facts: compare your home countries industries in 1945 or 1950 with today And then look into the gravel ruins of VW in 1945 and 1950 and compare that with today I bet the german industry will outperform your industry. Who saved Rolls Royce and Bentley ? And let us compare the growth rates of the big 3 in the USA from 1994 to 2024 and I bet the VW group will outperform each of them in the growth rate.
@ the UK & US car industries are fucked. Japan & Germany were the Powerhouses of the car industry. Unfortunately the Chinese are going to eat them alive no matter how much tariffs are added. Sad but true.
@@typxxilps Sir I think there is one major difference. In Germany 1/3 of the population will be over 65 by 2030. Who is going to work to build, work at and run these factories?
@@typxxilps Sorry but what ever industry was not destroyed by Nord stream blow up, is being destroyed by the new green deal, forcing car manufacturers to spend billions on expensive EV cars people don't want. Germany is DONE. ALL major industries are moving out to China and the US due to very high energy costs. And you ALL kept quiet when it happened, just like Olof Schultz.
Bought my Audi 18 years ago. Have had many over the years but my 18yr old A6 is the best car I’ve ever owned. I’d buy another, but not with all the emissions crap fitted to it. My A6 is still no where near end of life.
@ just my experience, my 2013 has cost more in repairs than my 2003 and 2004, also not a fan of all the chimes for various things and the engine shuts of every time you get out of the car to open a gate.
You also need to factor in the fines that are looming when automakers are unable to achieve the unrealistic electric car sales targets they have been saddled with. Instead of trying to drive down the cost of EV’s, legacy manufacturers have greedily pushed up the price of ICE cars to close the gap and like many, this has pushed me deep into the used car market.
I'm glad you made this point Dave, about the accounting write off of the closed plant by Audi. This has been in my mind and I have not seen anyone else reference this. On the face of it, the directors were only forced to write it off because they had tried to sell it and failed. Having converted it from an investment asset to an asset for sale they had no choice. But the question now for the big accounting firms is whether they put more pressure on directors at all legacy car companies to recognise that their plant assets can no longer longer be held at cost in the accounts even if they are not actively trying to sell them. If they let directors continue to claim they are worth the their book value, you get a very strange incentive NOT to try to sell a redundant asset, because if you do and fail, you have to write it off. Yet one thing that all these companies need to do is to sell these redundant factories. My guess is that external shareholders will put pressure on auditors to reflect the true value of these. In any event, if they don't the share price will reflect this and the gearing of these companies in their accounts will deteriorate significantly.
The 'legacy' automaker rot set in years back before EVs took off, eight years ago when the sales figures started collapsing. The pandemic, credit crunch and rapid electrification have all hit them in rapid succession and they sat back hoping to ride it out but the world not just the market has shifted under them and now find they acted too late, have to act quickly to catch up and need a lot of someone else cash to do it. The competition from pure EV, Chinese and Korean automakers is making getting that cash harder and erroding their existing sales. The tariffs are just a sricking plaster to give the industry a year or so breathing space. But the consumer is aware of the underlying shift and witholding buying rather than fund the automakers transition buy purchasing current products. The tariffs are also blocking the JV route of using smaller Chinese brands as a quick way to get on the low cost EV ladder. An approach the automakers used in the past with Japanese cars (Datsun comes to mind), but one which China is not seeking to adopt. The brussels factory is an example, it was mothballed a while back as it was built in the wrong locations - dificult to get parts in and finished cars out. Its not selling for the same reason and the planned JV use is no longer viable due to the tariffs.
That's BS. VW Group made a Net Profit of €21 Billion last year so profits weren't collapsing 8 years ago. The EU should not have imposed ever more stringent emissions requirements on car manufacturers. Car manufacturers were forced to invest tens of Billions into EVs that consumers didn't want.
@@almac9203 - So you are saying that you don't want cleaner emission cars and that your happy for the automakers to churn out polluting vehicles that shorten lives, emisions that have been legally proven to kill children and at significant cost the tax payer for the associated healthcare costs. All in order to increase the automakers profits. Bit of an extreme capitalist position to take, very 19th century coalmine owner in nature, but that's your choice I don't suspect many will join you in this view. In terms of BS, my statements are drawn from facts. By way of example take the UK historic car sales data, which shows that diesels and petrols growth have both been slowing over the last eight years, with diesels sales entering decline since 2016 and petrol sales since 2019. 2023 showed glimmers of a turn in fortunes for petrol, with the pent up spend from the pandemic being released but this hasn't sustained with petrol sales entering decline again this year (decling seven out the ten months reported so far). With respect to VWG one has to dig behind the headline figures to see a company's position, the corporate profit headline figure obscures a whole multitude of details. VWG increased sales in 2023 on the back of the pent up pandemic spend, the majority of sales coming within the European market. However, 20% of these market sales were due to EVs, providing a higher return on their production line investments being premium, higher margin, vehicles. However, looking into the 2023 operating details then in the eight years since 2016 although sales revenue and profit has increased over the period so has the company's operating liability debt, increasing by €77 Billion since 2016 to a whopping €220 Billion owed in 2023. Indeed looking at their cash flow sources behind the reported 2023 profit, those from operations (sales, finance income etc.) was down €9 Billion on 2022, at €19 Billion. Further, VWG worsened it's liquidity (difference between profits/cash held and money owned to investors) by nearly the sames amount as it's profit (-€22 Billion) over 2022 to -€147 Billion. If one look at it's future liabilities, mainly pensions, this again is another big number at €205 Billion, outlaying some €30 Billion annually. It appears that although VWG is making a profit it is borrowing heavily to sustain such. VWG need to demonstrate concrete stategy and sustained sales to maintain investor confidence, the 2024 figures to Q1 to Q3, show sales are down 4.4%, operating results (monies) are down 20.5% on the same period in 2023 and liquidity reducing further by another -€5.9 Billion. I'll leave it to you to determine for yourself whether reported profit alone demonstrates what you believe it does.
@@GruffSillyGoat total BS. VW has had a solid record of profitability over the last 2 decades. It wasn't just one year. Apart from the year of the dieselgate fines the VW Group has been successful and profitable. VW has a lot of debt as do many car companies. A portion of the debt is to do with financing of customers purchasing their cars so their indebtness is overstated but a portion was forced upon them by the EU emissions regulations. VW and other European manufacturers have been hamstrung by EU regulations which has forced them to invest tens of Billions into EVs that consumers simply don't want. VW is struggling as are other European manufacturers because they were forced to pivot to EVs which consumers simply don't want. BTW You make some BS claims about the need for regulations and clean air etc. The regulations are nothing to do with pollution but to do with CO2 and the BS climate change agenda. Politicians should let consumers decide otherwise they are going to cost millions of jobs. CO2 isn't poison nor pollution as you claimed.
@@almac9203 - the emissions requirements don't just relate to CO2, they cover other aspects such as particulate matter, hydrocarbons and NOx so you are incorrect there - lookup the Euro1 (1992) through Euro6 (2015) standards for example. These are Europe wide regulations that have become more stringent over time - even individual city wise with ULEZ rules have tighetening up over time and will continue to do so. It seems you're now focussing in on just greenhouse gas emissions but even the policies for these included all exhaust emissions not just CO2 reduction, which is why they are termed as zero-emission policies (having been put in place since 2015). If you want to deny facts that's your choice but the UK's SMMT for car sales data is that issued by the industry and VW's financials are fully available, from which sources my facts are drawn. In terms of VWG car finance debt, like all automakers they have a rule that their automotive division finance liquidity does not exceed a certain percentage of the vehicle sales revenue. For VWG this is 10%, which would peg that debt liquidity element at a maximum of €32 Billion of their total debt amount. Consumer EV demand, well it's up in the major car buying countries including Europe excluding Germany that has it's own particular issues, as well as China. The UK demand for EVs of all types is up 14.8% so far this year, Petrol and Diesel have declined -3.2%. With BEVs up 24.5% in October alone, and 14.2% over the year. Global EV sales reached 30.5% growth in September. The EY car buying intent report indicates that over 50%, of 19k people across 28 countries sampled, intend to buy an EV; this figure being 59% in UK. So by the published and verified stats, it is petrol and diesel where the sales and interest are waning not EVs, and in particularl not BEVs. The issue for European car makers is they hesitently produced EVs, entered the market late and expected uptake to take longer, planing on a slow tansitions that would lower their expenditure in shifting production lines and sought to sustain sales of their existing vehicles at the same time. Whereas the market has shifted faster, with those automakers who were more agile capatilising on the shift (pure EVs makers like Tesla, the Korean and the Chinese automakers have tansitioned much earlier). BTW it's dangerous to claim CO2 isn't toxic as it can be causing a condition known as Hypercapnia that can lead to death, general atmospheric exposure shouldn't be a risk but in enclosed spaces car CO2 fumes can build up to toxic levels. No doubt you'll call this BS as well, as you seem to prefer denial to fact.
@GruffSillyGoat I know the emissions regulations involved more than just CO2 however over time they have become ridiculously restrictive and are making it increasingly difficult for European manufacturers. At some point the regulations have nothing to do with pollution and health and have become about pushing a green agenda involving CO2. ICE cars are becoming ridiculously expensive and complex because of the regulations. On top of that ICE cars are going to be banned somewhere between 2030 and 2035 therefore manufacturers had no choice but to produce EVs that consumers simply don't want. You claimed that consumers want EVs but in many cases they are being pushed into them by government regulations. The EU is killing the European car industry with their ridiculous green agenda. VW isn't the only one suffering as BMW, Mercedes and Stellantis have all issued profit warnings in recent months. The EU forced the industry into EVs and that has put the industry at risk because customers simply don't want EVs particularly in the premium end of the market. The European manufacturers have had to pivot towards hybrids simply because consumers don't want EVs. The EU should accept the reality that consumers aren't embracing EVs and delay their mandates.
Hi Dave new subscriber on the site I have found your contents informative and helpful. This review has confirmed what I felt was happening in my opinion a world wide crash is on the cards,
Another sign Audi being in deep doo-doo is the fact they have flogged the fledgling Audi F1 team to Qatari investors before its even turned a wheel. From what I've observed part of the decline in the big name manufacturers was that they decided that the post pandemic production 'problems' would be the ideal opportunity to readjust the market to where they thought it should be. By this I mean they used the 'pandemic supply problems' to halt/scale back manufacture of the low margin lower cost models, and concentrate on higher end/higher margin models; make fewer cars, with fewer factories and fewer people but more profit. Result! They also thought that if they priced their fully loaded EV models at the high end the public would acclimatise to the high prices we are currently seeing on all cars, EV or ICE. However, this backfired as finance got more expensive, Tesla started reducing the price of their cars (reducing prices over time was a stated aim of the company years back, so no real surprise) and the threat of cheap Chinese models arriving on western shores. I don't think VAG, BMW, Mercedes will disappear, but we will see scaled back companies as they reduce ICE production and shed models and variants. Another contributory reason, and one for a whole other debate, is the changing nature of motoring, fewer people are seeing a shiny German prestige car as the status symbol it has been for decades. I think a Hyundai, Kia, and of course Tesla, EV is increasingly occupying that role on the driveways of the executive housing developments.
I agree, the car companies saw that so E people could afford the very high supply/demand prices due to supply chain problems and decided to stick with those prices.
This has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the development costs imposed by increasingly draconian regulatory burden. Cars are becoming more and more expensive and are being priced out of the market. The regulatory regime for EVs is significantly simpler because there are no emissions and fuel economy standards to be met.
For me the question is "why would anybody buy an Audi?" Audis are basically more expensive VWs. At the same time, performance and manufacturing standards of just about everything has been steadily rising, while a pandemic has eroded people's real incomes. So, why pay more for an expensive car that is almost indistinguishable from a somewhat cheaper one? When real incomes rise, people turn away from brand snobbery. Even Apple has had to drop its price differentials to retain market share, and that even after the USA tried (successfully for the moment) to sabotage the Chinese phone industry. (as an example of the Audi gouge, I heard about someone who had a subssembly fail on an Audi in the USA and was told it was $900 to replace as a unit. He did a bit of research and found VW sold the identical part for the identical engine in a VW - but you could buy it as individual parts, and the actual replacement part was $15. Stories like this get round.)
It's a status symbol. But I think the younger generation tend to think it's a stupid one. Flaunting your wealth by leasing a car you can't afford makes little sense when you can't afford the rent.
Although I fully understand, and to some extent agree with you, it is just that - the brand. This logic could be applied to several brands, I mean a VW is just a more expensive Skoda. Various brands are just different versions of the essentially same thing, but presented in different ways so that manufacturers can target different people and sell more. The problem occurs when the very foundation of your product is shaken, as with the EV transition, sudden competition from new players etc. And it's all happening during a finacial downterm. We've seem to forgot that it was only 3 years ago where you couldnt buy a new car even if you wanted to, because the dealers where fresh out of stock due to demand. Markets were fueld with covid money and interest rates on car finances like 2,95%. Today - not so much. Things will get better once the economy stables, for Audi and others. But it will take time and the car industry map will be re-drawn quite a bit.
And yet, if you want to buy a nice Porsche or Audi you nearly need to beg the dealership!! This kind of stupidity is just a Dinosaur way of buying cars! Go online, click a mouse and never speak to a salesman.... is the only way forward.
Nope carwow is the best way to buy a car . Once you get one price you can start getting every other dealer to beat that price until they can’t go any lower . That’s the way to buy a car ….
New car prices have increased above a level that the mass market can afford, so sales are falling. At the same time new cars are being overloaded with expensive technology that nobody asked for or wants, demanded by bureaucrats who are hastening the demise of their own national car industries. Chinese EVs and Tesla are the future, a few legacy brands might mege and survive but in general there is going to be carnage (sic) in the old automotive sector.
The odd thing is the Chinese, and Korean, cars have the same 'mandated' tech in them at a much lower price point. The European car makers just seem to be using the tech uplift as an excuse to price gouge.
Would have to say Dave not all VW/Audi group cars are failing I have a skoda enyaq 85 and to be honest can't believe how many enyaqs are on the road in my part of the country (Merseyside) have to say absolutely a great car especially in my coupe shape 😀😀
I recon could be a chance they might do a complete u turn on this being done by 2035.. to many jobs at risk for starters and tbh if only half of cars on rds be ev then thats good enough for now .. give them time too adapting too ev properly as rushing makes mistakes
No that date is fixed in stone. In reality it will have to be much earlier. It takes so long to design, sort out and then build the factories to make the new cars that anyone not started now is probably already too late. Be late for this one and go bust.
Hi Dave, Thanks for your observations and very interesting report on EVs. In my opinion we will never have enough Renewable energy to cover our domestic needs and Milliband is already leaking that energy will have to be rationed in the future. Can you imagine trying to charge an EV under these restrictions and why would anyone with common sense consider buying one ? Fossil fuels will be around much longer than EVs and EVs will be obsolete with technological improvements in next decades I for one would not have an EV even if they were giving them away free. If you value your family's safety why bother with them.
This is more to do with keeping the shareholders happy it’s a great example of it keeping profits artificially high for too long using higher prices and less research and development to keep shareholders happy and now Volkswagen group is paying the price maybe if they had spent more time with larger shareholders convincing them of the need for longer term thinking this could have been avoided. Only the super tech companies can seem to get away with offering the shareholders no dividends 😂 shareholder pressure for profits kills lots of companies
Audi used to be a superb quality inovative car with the best reliability. Now they are an expensive unreliable car just like VW.... Thats why people are back buying japanese
Greetings from Southern California. I recently got a base model Ioniq 5 SE. Great city car. I average about 100 miles per month and charge level one at home. BTW...........I'm 74 yo.
Around 25 years ago the rot in ICE really set in especially for German and Euro manufacturing. Vehicles were being made with staggering complexity. From dynamic hydaulic suspension systems that failed, injection systems that failed and electronics. This was combined with ever increasing Euro compliance standards that increasingly were impossible to meet. The consequence is widespread failure. And new vehicles no longer fit for pupose. And I include EV in this. Audi thought that complexity would save them. Reality is their engineering approach will and has killed customer confidence. And a car company needs customers...
Hi Dave. I have been watching your videos recently and finally decided ti subscribe. I plan on purchasing an EV in around 18 months and find your channel an invaluable source of information. Thank you 👍 However after keeping an eye on the market, the logical car for us would be a Tesla model 2. When do you think they will be coming to the uk? Keep up the good work 💪
My post seems to have been deleted already, but the "Model 2" is cancelled. It was shown off as the "self driving taxi" with 2 seats (!) to arrive in 5 years or so. It looks like they did the chassis development and then realised it could not be done for the money. In any case, almost all the smaller EVs are supposed to arrive in your 18 month timecale, whether it's the Renault 5, a whole load of badge engineered Stellantis models, Fords, Mini, or some Chinese ones you haven't heard of yet.
@@EbenBransome Thank you for the additional info. Having read many reports of high milage Tesla's, they seem to have a really good reliability record, and very long lasting batteries. As i will be planning to keep my EV for many years, I was not sure if the established manufacturers would build longevity into their batteries. I would be looking for around 12 years (I appreciate the efficiency will drop over time, but after 12 years I would like 150 miles range to be still obtainable). Thank you again for you input, appreciated 🙂
Hi Adrian thanks for your support. If you check my older videos I suggest the Model 2 may never be launched anywhere, but in that event there will instead be several other models below £30k to choose from including robotaxi and budget versions or the Model 3 and the Y. Either should be out here late 2025 and in mass production 2026.
There is certainly some value added in reading numbers to people who cannot read themselves. For the others value added dtarts with a view whether we compare zo a high base and why that is, whether there are anormal factors depressing numbers and where the company is in its product cycle. And then one should spend a few thoughts on valuation and what risks are prived or not.
EV cars may be more sustainable for the environment, but all the electronics will be less sustainable for the end users. Hence, depreciation for EV is extreme. My Audi is 20 years old. I doubt any of the current EV models will ever have that lifespan. More money for less use? No thanks. Volkswagen used to mean "cars for the people". Now the Volkswagen group makes cars for the elite.
EV's sustainable? Nobody talks about the massive future problem of disposing of EV's along with their batteries and electronics, it's not like chucking a couple of AA's in the bin, are there even companies out there that can do it or will they end up in land fill?
The vorsprunged too far into technic. Audi cars are now ridiculously complicated. Engines with 5 chains, thermostats under inlet manifolds. Repairs are prohibitive so these cars only make sense on a lease deal. No used car buyer wants the risk so they have little value when the lease runs out. Rather than solve this with simpler cars Audi (and other German marques) are looking at scrapping cars and recycling at 5 years and trying to pass this off as "green". Compare the complexity of a top end Audi with a Tesla, also cutting edge tech but little more than 2 electric motors, a large battery and software that gets updated free over the air. Audi (along with BMW and MB) have pioneered the electronic write off, cars that are so complex to diagnose that owners give up. We are now seeing nearly new cars in main dealers for months with faults that mean the car cannot be driven but on systems that are not essential for driving. 3 months to fix rear wheel steering, since when did a car NEED rear wheel steering but once its got it it has to work. The elephant in the room is that even the base model Kia, Ford, Fiat will be very nice to drive, have sufficient power and handle well. Its probably OHC, turbo charged and has A/C so Audi have tried to justify their high prices by filling their cars with needless tech and at last consumers are seeing through it. I drive a 50 year old Land Rover, no ECU, power steering, AC or infotainment and it will outlast me, servicing is around £200 / year. When I decide I need those things I'll go straight to an EV. For those who know aviation i would give this analogy: Audi is stuck in 1950, making the most amazing piston engines when the jet age is just around the corner. The Wright Turbo-compound is a marvel of engineering but in 2 years Wright was gone and the factories closed, they tried to make a jet but failed. History is about to repeat itself.
I too own a LR a Defender (18 years old) that will also outlast me, its been 100% reliable as its electronics consist of one ECU, electric windows and a radio that it! Oh and its worth twice what I bought it for.
I think your reporting is inaccurate. VW, for instance, did exactly what you suggested. They reverted to electric only policy back after the dieselgate scandal. They invested billions in that in fact. The issue in my opinion is that you can have a profitable automaker which makes electric cars on a small to medium scale but you simply cannot (right now) have a major automaker to match that. Look at BYD for instance. They still make a fraction of electric cars in comparison to millions of cars from Toyota. 3 million (counting also non electric) in comparison to 10 million. Tesla for example 1.8 million cars sold last year which is about 18% of Toyota. Maybe prime materials and with that batteries should get cheaper before large scale production is viable. And I also believe Europe has no interest in loosing millions of jobs because of electric shift. Nor has England with its Swindon factories for instance. So - this video missed the point and only rumbled about legaca automakers :)
@ I think they will reduce output over the next 18 months by about 30-40%. Then reduce employee numbers by around similar numbers. This will allow them to last just long enough to see they made a huge error believing the hype. And both companies will go the way of Rover and the rest.
My leased EV has 2 years to go. I’m 75. I’ll then buy my last car - a Polestar 4 EV - second hand, top of the range, all the knobs and whistles for £25k less than book. My last car, too. Only £300/yr for electricity instead of £2500 on petrol. Over ten years I’ll save £11,000 on fuel.
My father has ordered an e-Golf, when he was 81. Now 4 years after delivery his car has 64000 km and guess how much wear and tear ? Still first set of tyres, degredation of the battery is less than 5% and nothing, only the usual annual 100€ to 200€ for service and MOT every second year, and of cause the viper rubber he replaces each year for 20€. Meanwhile he has gotten a 25 kWp solar array with 22 kWh batteray and in next spring a heatpump will complete the change from Oil to own electricity. And he also has become an Octopus customer already, Octopus Heat cause Octopus has arrived in germany during the pandemic and has also started now to sell heatpumps too, but too late for him. If you can find an e-GOLF VII aka the 300 km version (which is possible but only in summer and only driving cross country) make a test ride. Those offer during winter 160 km of range and in summer 250 km - enough for many and in case he needs more range he charges during a lunch and after 1hour he will have another 250 km or 160 km. He is no longer in a hurry and tries to enjoy life more than before.
People like me are no longer buying new cars. This is the longest I've owned an Audi from new, now 8 years in, used to change every 3 years. However the push for EV of which I have no interest, the neutering of cars in the way they sound and the lowering of quality while raising prices has put me off changing. I will maintain mine till it dies.
Folks hit with increased living costs , less new cars sold , they will buy 2 year old EV s half price , lease deals look even better ..,In fact EV s are a good way to reduce monthly costs
Audi make cracking cars but as a massive mark up to pay their workers big money, they have to do this as they are totally Union controlled. So up went the prices and down went the sales but prices still kept going up so further depressing sales, this is okay if you are the only manufacturer but that's not the case, Tesla, BYD, Dong Feng etc all make better, smarter cars. The bubble has burst!
you missed a key point: if you appoint a new CEO than his first year will be a kind of status quo and this means all old possible burdens will be identified to give him the best starting point for a good turn around which is empowering employees and share holders. It is usual scenario to paint the great picture from the previous seasons only black in black. And that means losses. If there is anything that could have a negativ impact in the future the likelihood that it might happened will increased from 5% to 100% and there you have a huge mass to play with and first of all lower the tax duties at least in germany. This mechanism is 30 years or even older - but was not used that much in germany till the 2000. New CEO means big losses first to give him a better turn aroud position and it does not hurt to throw bad news after the old CEO. It is easy in the VW empire to move assets and obligations around cause everyone inside the group is a supplier for everything for another group member. This way the facturing of goods and projects can change - especially between Porsche and Audi considering that the VW group CEO is also the Porsche CEO . Less profits on the Audi group make sense for a new CEO and increases the profits of the porsche group compared with the genuine figures. Porsche went down a bit but might have had far lower figures without such changes. I had worked in the car industry since the 80s after my military duty when they offered me to study - and paid me a salary. Right now nothing is unusual for a first year of a CEO cause he had arrived in late 2023. Next year will be a different thing, but as always those are strong brands which have grown big big times in the past decades. Compare the growth with the decline of the big three who are more or less relying on their domestic market and now even BYD attacks them in their home market and key segment with their battery electric hybrid truck. Not the best offer for sure, but the key point is that they are starting and how fast they will be able to improve cause there are some things to do if you check underneath the rear passenger bank and some other spots. But the general product idea is not what many had expected a weak structure, rather the opposite: well suited for heavy duty. If Audi looses market share after 30 years of growth they can live with that and adjust a bit. Key issue is more or less the missing demand for EV where the politicians are too shy to tell the people you have to switch and also too shy to put new regulations in place that let the ice drivers pay the damages they are causing with their emissions. Double those rates and people will be faster to think twice cause only gas prices would increase at the gas station if people have to pay for what they are causing. If CO2 is so good for the environment all ICE drivers should test how long an animal will survive in their garage with a running engine.
Year 1: new CEO says everything is bad and starts massive cost cutting Year 2: cost cutting continues at once racking up massive restructuring costs Year 3: profit sky rockets due to reduced costs, CEO banks massive bonus Year 4: profits continue, CEO banks another massive bonus Year 5: CEO declares turnaround success, takes massive bonus and leaves Time passes Year 7: company is in dire straits with no new or improved products due to the CEO gutting the R&D spend in year 1
Good luck... Oil companies have been making billions and filling shareholders pockets and politicians pockets. Maybe oil company corruption will die off.
The EU is focusing on tariffs. That will not help. Most car companies used to sell to China. The car industry has to reduce production by a third. If all companies reduce by a third they will suffer from the lack of economies of scale. So one third of car companies need to go bust. But EVs become cheaper every day due to technology improvements. The EU's race is to close one third of businesses and convert the rest to EVs. This assumes that they continue to sell to the USA whilst the USA goes through the same transition.
@ I’m not saying all Audi drivers are bad. But the brand attracts the worst of the worst. I’ve had four near serious incidents on the road and all were caused by Audi drivers. The last one the guy nearly crushed my kid. It’s not just me, they did some data survey and found S3 drivers are the worst on the round categorically.
@@london_biker6177 not only audi, but bmw and mercedes as well attract the worst of the worst. The cherry on this cake are ALL mercedes drivers with Vienna (Austria) plates
This is a very useful analysis Dave. I don't have the time to do the research you do, but what you are reporting is consistent with what I anticipated would happen. It's interesting that Tesla are thriving (number-wise) compared to other BEVs, but we don't want a society where everyone drives car that look the same, so we need legacy auto to get their offerings right. Most normal people don't want to spend large amounts of money in our currently cash-strapped economy on a Mercedes or an Audi BEV that might catch fire. The Chevy Bolt debacle has been extremely damaging to the promotion of low cost BEVs and GM in particular. In the UK, the hyperinflated car tax rates in 2025 for aspirational ICE cars will suppress demand something chronic except at the top end of the market meaning second hand ICE prices of such cars will increase. Many of us with high end BMWs, for example, will continue to run them until they die (mine is a spotless 2005 330i with the last naturally aspirated 3L straight six engine) and will probably see me out should it last another 10-12 years and another 125K. I would like very much to see what Tesla come up with as their cheaper Model 2, it might prove to be a game-changer as it will be a similar price to the new Fiat 500e that no-one is buying, after all - who wouldn't rather drive a used Fiat 500 Abarth!
The Model 2 got cancelled. It's now the "self driving taxi" due out in 5 years time. Don't hold your breath. And it has the same disadvantages as the Fiat, i.e. 2 real seats and little storage.
This is what happens when you cater for rich people only. Is there an Audi for around 18 to 20 grand. NO. With extra taxes and EVs not selling the car makers are almost bankrupt. Self inflicted.
The obvious option would be to continue making good, easy, predictable short term profits doing what they've always done. Alternatively they could commit to a risky, expensive and difficult effort to implement a major change in how they do things. Which would require a different skillset and worst of all, potentially even new people at the top able to handle such a challenge. Would the incumbents rock the boat, upset their shareholders and risk their own careers in the pursuit of such elusive long term success? In retrospect the strategy of instead doing what every other legacy car company was doing, that is the bare minimum of window dressing to ensure everyone a future of electric vehicles would not pass them by seems fairly predictable. Their downfall will be well deserved.
Yes, the legacy manufacturers are well screwed...sat back expecting to continue to cash in on their lucrative gravy train instead of waking up to the reality of change. Complacency is a killer trait...as they are now discovering to their detriment and ultimate downfall. A carbon copy of the 70's Japanese invasion that decimated the car industry around the world who failed to see it coming..they just don't learn their lesson do they.
EVs are not going to be so cheap in the long run, at least not in the UK. How will the UK Government replace the massive income from fuel excise duty, and the VAT on that? Some sort of tax or mileage charge, on ALL cars is certain. And oil refineries will be with us for a good while yet - where does all the plastic for the new cars and consumer goods come from? And the lubricating oil, the bunker fuel for ships bringing cars from China etc. Look around you - you are surrounded by plastic; all from oil. We are besotted by EVs and their importance, but ALL cars the World over only contribute to less than 10% emissions. We need to see the big picture, but that is not easy.
PROPAGANDA SPOUTED BY YOU AGAIN. look at the EV sales figures compared to ICE cars, people DO NOT WANT EV CARS AT ANY PRICE. Why are EVs being heavily reduced? It's because the sales are pitiful and nowhere near what is required to meet the net zero target. The motor trade publications keep reporting a percentage growth in EVs, but look at the numbers, not a percentage figure. 41% increase of nothing is nothing.
Audi is VW isn’t it ? Anyway another reason Audi is struggling is VWs strategy for al its brands . Skoda is the problem , their cars are just as well made as VWs and Audis , they’re often made in the same factories as are SEATs so a lot of people are wondering why they should pay more for what is an inferior product . For me Audi has always been all mouth no trousers , I’ve never fallen for their ‘ Premium’ rankings as they use bits and platforms from cheaper brands which BMW and Mercedes do not . The Chinese have seen though this and so VW is now rebranding Audi in China and removing the four rings and calling it ?? AUDI lol , you couldn’t make it up ! VW seems to have lost its way and what’s happening at its brands show this ! Bentley is the same , people are getting wise to the fact that a Bentley is now just a big VW with expensive bits added , even the engines are VW cast off designs .
@ to a lesser degree to Bentley though , I think the Phantom is pretty much a bespoke platform though it does have BMW engineered engines . The Cloud I think is based on the 7 series . Though Rolls Royce bodies were always made by BL weren’t they ? It’s just that at least Rolls Royce uses premium parts and parts from a premium make whereas Bentley uses parts from VWs .
Low end Mercs have plenty of renault badges, BMW are not the premium brand they used to be either, the smaller 'prestige' cars are purely bought for the badge, quality is not that great. I went from an A4 B8 to a Volvo xc60 (2016) to a 3 series (2020), and im currently in an ID7. The XC60 was by far best quality car ive had, VW seem to have got it right with the ID7 in my experience so far.
@ remember Volvo are Chinese . Yes lower models of Mercs do such as the A class , but every Audi is a VW group parts bin special of some sort . Whereas there’s nothing of any other make in a 3 series or C class or 5 series or E class etc . Even the A8 was originally the Phaeton and is used for the Bentley flying spur etc . And of course Audis are FWD and some of their engines are slung way out ahead of the front wheels so they’ll never handle as well as a RWD Merc or BMW .
@@stevejewiss532 you're very sure of yourself for someone that is wrong. The Bentley flying Spur isn't an Audi and the Audi isn't a Phaeton. They were linked two decades ago but they haven't been for a long time. They are built on different platforms.
The new Audi Q6, A6 (including Avant) e-trons are really excellent cars with 800V technology on the new PPE platform. I'm sure these BEVs are in its class among the best. If Audi will bring Q3, Q5, A3 e-trons, their BEV sales certainly would rise.
Hyundai/Kia first released a 800V platform car nearly four years ago. They are lower cost and better spec'd out than the Audi models plus charge faster.
@@GruffSillyGoat Absolutely, couldn't agree more. But I still do believe that there is a market for premium EVs such as the new Audi models on PPE. 100kWh battery pack, smooth ride due to air suspension and other expensive gimmicks and really fast charging. I'd always prefer the Audi A6 e-tron over the Tesla Model S. Unfortunately, my current budget is hardly enough for a Kia EV6....
@@hausi78 - seems Kia is heavy discounting at the moment inthe UK, the base EV6 model is selling for £37.5k (£8.5k off) - possibly on the pre facelift model. Not sure if this is UK specific or not.
I'm not so sure. The US economy was booming under Trump until Covid. The US is Porsche/Audi's biggest market. I think Trump bringing peace to Ukraine will save the U.S. billions...less money printing = lower inflation = more disposable income increased by a booming economy. If Germany manages to kill the Net Zero madness and get their energy prices back to sensible levels they should be able to recover via U.S. sales. Trump will end the future BEV mandates which should allow German ICE cars (Which are their best products) to sell well. 👍🏻
@@davetakesiton $110 million from Musk won't go far. Trump and Musk compete for publicity, and one thing is obvious about Trump: he doesn't allow anybody to deflect attention from him.
New cars of any energy source are not my cup of tea to invasive in all ways, I've saved so much money and time by driving a used diesel and saved the planet more than tbose that buy new cars for fun every 3 years.
Have a look for yourself and see used ev are sitting with dealers due to the deprecation factor like dave keeps pushing tesla driving prices down is no good if you own or lease last years car. And lack of infrastructure meas why would anyone with no drive way or gargae want to pay public charging rates and inconvenience compared to ice. I drive an electric bike myself alongside my car as i see it thats the better way to travel local and really make a difference.
I love the way many car drivers say they'll stick with the older, out-dated technology. For all sorts of reasons 🤔 However, I can say with certainty, these same people are NOT Watching, Replying, or interacting in any way with these videos - With an OLD, Inefficient, Slow, 'Cheap', PHONE 😂🤣 I have no problem with those who wish to STAY with older ICE - That is their choice. But, please, don't deride the modern technology for just 'personal', misguided, beliefs 😇
@@ianhill20101 and yet the mist update in used cars is the EV segment. I completely agree that anyone who can't home charge shouldn't get one but they do make complete sense for all those that can, at the point of vehicle replacement. That's when those new today-used tomorrow cars get bought... Just like when you bought your used diesel. Just to be clear, I'm not paying any agenda, just stating as it is. I have cars from 1975, 1994, 2006, 2009 and the Tesla. Petrols, diesel, LPG and EV so my experience is anything but fanatical EV. 😉
I bought my current 2012 focus 1.6 diesel brand new just shy of £16000 and covered 200000 miles been very relible to be fair as lack luster as it is. I understand oneday it will be a tin of beans in port talbots arc reactor when its up and running but i wint be buying a new car again even though i enjoyed this experience and build electric projects and work as a electricain until lucid levels of tech trickle down and charging infrastructure ill be chugging along keeping well serviced. Im well rounded myself not baised from an electric forum and built some ebikes and surrons etc and I've drove an electric forklkft 😂
Dave, you bang on about how wonderful EV's are and that they are the future. Your enthusiasm is so misplaced from the truth, which is ordinary people cannot afford EV's. The figures speak for themselves. Gonna change you mind now, Dave?
@@huwjones5879 did you buy it outright, lease and worst of all salary sacrifice (if salary sacrifice you would have been better putting it into your pension pot)?
@@xperyskop2475 I think Europe had no choice but to stop trading with Russia. We have to have some moral values, and to stand up against violent dictatorships like Russia.
@ I don’t trust China an inch, and in hindsight we should have stood up for Tibet. TheHong Kong issue was complex, and I feel the people there. But we can’t preemptively sanction China based on what they might do to Taiwan.
🎉Russia stopped exporting natural gas and oil because of Europe's support for Ukraine, so Europe installed solar and battery packs because their citizens had power restrictions after Russia stopped exporting. Now after 2-3 years of bans of import of spare parts and no currency to buy foriegn goods, Russia's gas production has company has large problems extracting gas and oil. Russia's currency problems are so bad that they gave China SW Russia on exchange for military weapons to fight on Ukraine.
I might well revel in the demise of an industry that poisons our families and lies about its damage. If ICE cars are so benign, why do some poor desperate people seeking an end to their misery put a hosepipe from the exhaust and then sit in the car with it....
The airline industry poisons my family, how many aeroplanes land and takeoff every second never really mentioned is by governments etc, you are utterly brainwashed if you think it is just ice vehicles polluting. The list is endless what actually pollutes the air we breath!
200 billion is the VW group with what ? Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Bugattie, Seat, Skoda, the commercial vehicles incl. MAN and Saab and of cause VW. And among those are plants and locations inside cities where the property alone is worth what ? Dresden has even 2 sites in the city limits one next to a park and the football stadium not so far from the Semper opera. Back in 1945 or 1950 VW had gravel and ruins, Porsche did not really exist - as car manufacturer and looking back then a lot more must have been achieved compared to the rest of the industry. The last big crisis when VW was on the verge to collapse is 30 years ago and it took 3 years to turn the rudder around, Ferdinand the 2nd, not Ferdinand Porsche, but his grandson Ferdinand Piech did it. They will come back , but first they will cut costs and get a leaner production again. At the end a big part of the growth was won in china and now they have to compete with the chinese in China which is a tough race in such states where the government makes the rules. Who in the west has any clue about that how they did hit the west ? New stronger EURO 7 emissions should be postponed in the EU if you ask the manufacturer, but guess what China had done: Force all manufacturers to deliver cars with EURO 7 from 2024 on and they did comply or stopped the sales of the car (even though it is called China 4). China makes it easier for domestic manufacturers to sell their car at home - which we had not seen before.
Legacy auto could have made compelling BEVs at competitive prices? Nah, Dave, nah. BEVs are a 3-legged disruption: electrification, manufacturing tech, and software-operated controls. Electrification isn't too bad. Assembly expertise and outsourcing kind of works. Manufacturing tech is harder. Legacy auto is stuck with old factories that can't easily be converted to new manufacturing methods - and their supply chains are not able to innovate rapidly. Their outsourcing model, lack of expertise, debt loads and union contracts rob them of flexibility. As for software-controlled cars, thus far legacy auto has been utterly helpless. They can't do it themselves and their suppliers can't, either. They really could not 'easily' switch to producing compelling BEVs with positive margins. In fact, they could not do it at all.
@@paddylogan13 I agree, he’s gone from hero to zero in my book. Back in 2020 I bought TSLA stock as both an investment and in belief in Elon’s vision for a sustainable future. Now he is in bed with the loathsome Trump, I can’t stand the man. I also think Trump will destroy Elon, because Trump destroys everything he touches.
I doubt Musk is any worse than most other CEOs of huge multinational companies, it just that he owns a social media platform and can't stop posting his views on it, while all the others just keep quiet.
What a load of shite. The reason new car sales are down is used car sales in combustion engines are at an all time high as there is low interest in electric vehicles. Just have a look at any used ev price
@@davetakesiton Not even in the UK top 10 in October, explain that. Look, they may be the future, but not in their current form or at this time. And what happens as Musk goes bankrupt? Like when the government and NASA funding for his ridiculous rockets stops. That's what keeps the cars rolling off the line and it will end as his failures to meet targets mount.
In the uk we will never generate enough power to charge the number of cars on the road.The plan is to force those on lower incomes off the road.They currently could not buy an ev, even if they wanted to.The government will progressively increase road tax and fuel tax to the point where they are forced off the road.Unless a more efficient and long life battery type is developed,there will be no second hand market for evs.
Don't write off the oil companies yet.... Elon Musk's fantasy project Starship needs 1000 Tonnes of Fossil fuel to barely get to orbit, and would need 8-10 other ships coming up to re-fill it up if it were ever to go to Mars (it won't), so thats 10,000 tonnes of Fossil fuel. How green is Elon Musk?
@davetakesiton I both know the definition and disagree you saying you are simply reporting. Despite your protestations to the contrary, there is an almost sadistic glee. EV's have have been, are and will continue to be a disruptive technology. Whilst I don't disagree that many of the big traditional auto makers have rested on their laurels, often despite snr staff warning them to the contrary, years or even nearly a decade ahead of where we are now, it nevertheless doesn't take away from the fact millions will have their livelihoods affected. The speed of these sakes collapses are nearly all attributable to the Chinese Market, where ICE cars have nearly totally collapsed. Western manufacturers where too reliant of China for 75%+ of their revenues, and when that disappears in the space of a few years the proverbial hourse has already bolted.
Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. I nearly 60YO, I’m a car enthusiast and was talking to a much younger work colleague recently, who is a big Audi fan. I suggested that they may well go bust and disappear, he pretty much laughed at me, saying that could never happen. So I told him about my early life, when British roads were populated with a very different mix of cars. What happened to Singer, Hillman, Simca, Talbot, Wolsely, Morris, Austin, Triumph just off the tip of my tongue. We Googled some images of these old car makes. He still doesn’t think things will change, but then I never thought that when I was his age. Things do change.
I’m 58 and it’s time for things to be shaken up (again). I remember the 70’sand 80’s brands who then disappeared into the 90’s. The incumbents have been there too long now and they will change. You’re right, when you’re young you haven’t seen it in action to understand it’s inevitable.
Don't let him visit China as it will blow his mind seeing all these brands he's never heard of.
Hi youngster, All too true Simon. Companies like car factories and banks are all too big to fail ... until they do. I still like Elon's quote "the future should look like the future"
You can not compare a rotten british car industry with a audi group which had been growing for how many decades ?
In 1994 Audi sold 375.000 cars and had a turnover of 9 billion euros.
In 2023 Audi sold 1.900.000 cars and had a turnover of 70 billion euros (of cause incl. inflation , but without the 71% in the DM € Zone still 41 billion)
Oh key figures (without inflation) might be lower like average turnover per car. Yes, but before 1994 Audi did not sell any car below the Audi 80 aka A4 which had been all introduced later when Piech had left Audi already to take over VW CEO.
And now let me now the big upswing of these british car manufacturers: Singer, Hillman, Simca, Talbot, Wolsely, Morris, Austin, Triumph
3 decades of growth and then they died within a year ?
You missed the key history: VW had been on the verge of bankrupcy already - shortly after the german unification around 1993
And Ferdinand Piech had saved the whole with a lot of bright and smart ideas step by step and he was the found of what later became the big VW group and grew a lot faster than Mercedes.
Time will tell, but in the past the german car industry had been written of by McKinsey and others mutliple times like inthe early 90s where they claimed that BMW and german car manufacturers were not good and capable in the only area where they expected market growth: electronics
Manager magzin had such headlines over and over again and never brought the opposite headline how terrible wrong they were back then.
If times are tough germans stand together and even the unions have learned economics one way or the other that you can not milk a dead cow. So they will adjust and the labor costs will decrease as it has happened before - for example in the 90s.
Germany has still a big production, UK has given up - or compare the ship production capacities of the UK with the german which must be astonishing for a nation that lived from the sea and trade and invented "made in germany" which became a badge for outstanding quality otherwise those products would not have been sold across the globe. UK is finance only, maybe a bit of lloyds and insurcances and what else ? Dyson and Aston Martin ...
We can live with a decreasing economy cause we have no more skilled and well educated workers, only those with weak skills, mostly immigrants. And that is the core issue, the quality of their work cause they are working in street construction and that is bad. Our boardwalk has been rebuild a 2nd time in 40 years by such a working group where no one was able to speak german. They were laying the glas fiber cable for faster internet and now 2 years later the boardwalk starts sinking . They will have to redo the whole street in a few years once the damage is so big that it is above the DIN regulations.
Skilled workes with a good education and of cause language skills are missing and 1 big reason for a declining gdp everyone had seen coming for years.
A lot of those were badge engineered versions of the same brand i.e. Singer and Hillman (together with Sunbeam & Humber) were Rootes group brands rebadged again with subsequent takeovers as Chrysler & Talbot and Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley MG, Triumph, Rover all British Leyland so yes lots of changes, buy outs, government ownership etc back then… although nothing like the firmament that’s likely to ensue with the ongoing transition to EVs .. fascinating stuff and I’m nearly 62 so have seen a lot of this history at first hand too!
I have an older B8 A4 Avant Audi which I love. My Dad drove Toyotas and Fords his whole life and had a string of Toyota Camry’s with a new one every 4-5 years. First drive he had in my Audi he said. “Wow, this is a nice car.” I helped my brother fix up his Camry after hitting a kangaroo. Drove it and thought to myself. “Wow, this is like driving a boat.” Chalk and cheese.
Hi Dave, I was at the Zurich car show here in Switzerland and had the opportunity to drive several EV’s. From a Lucid to a MG MX-4. The MG stand was offering great EV’s at a price that made me just go wow 😮. People were swarming over the cars in the show. There were several other EV manufacturers on show from China as well. The prices and quality is amazing. When went to VW there was no one and I mean no one looking at ID range and the prices were ridiculous. Tells me a lot about the German car manufacturers.
I’d be slow to buy a car from friendship without limits China.
The root cause is that traditional established motor manufacturers assumed they would switch over from making ICE cars to EVs and maintain their market share. The problem is it’s easier to start a new brand to build EVs than it is to retool an existing ICE manufacturer. Today’s premium brands that ruled the ICE market will no longer exist in the future as EV manufacturers or at least not in their current form. An EV is a computer on wheels, nobody cares about premium brands or badges, EVs are a commodity and they all do the same job more or less.
Yep, the innovators dilemma, they knew what they needed to do but it’s very hard to make that kind of change in a big company
@ Exactly, like trying to steer an oil tanker.
Exactly this! 👍
Bought a VW 18 years ago, the turbo blew up at exactly 100K.km, I said never ever a VW.
Bought a Volvo before it was Chinese, I still have it, 200K.km, rock solid.
Bought a Lexus, 60K.km, great car, zero issue, people at the dealership know my name and always come toward me smiling.
Everytime I go to any Audi dealership, I'm looked over with contempt, just black trims for display, black interiors, hard plank seats, dark, sad and no more analog buttons...A big NOP.
As far as I'm concerned, V.A.G can disappear, they've got nothing for me, I don't care 🤷♂️
Reliability has definitely for all VAG cars while prices through the roof ... It is not sustainable! Audi, start building reliable cars that people can afford like you used to do!
The VW Group wants to borrow another $200bn to transition to EVs 😮. Good luck with that 😂.
EU already had plans to buy those bonds…
Look in the mirror and check out the facts: compare your home countries industries in 1945 or 1950 with today
And then look into the gravel ruins of VW in 1945 and 1950 and compare that with today
I bet the german industry will outperform your industry. Who saved Rolls Royce and Bentley ?
And let us compare the growth rates of the big 3 in the USA from 1994 to 2024 and I bet the VW group will outperform each of them in the growth rate.
@ the UK & US car industries are fucked. Japan & Germany were the Powerhouses of the car industry. Unfortunately the Chinese are going to eat them alive no matter how much tariffs are added. Sad but true.
@@typxxilps Sir I think there is one major difference. In Germany 1/3 of the population will be over 65 by 2030. Who is going to work to build, work at and run these factories?
@@typxxilps
Sorry but what ever industry was not destroyed by Nord stream blow up, is being destroyed by the new green deal, forcing car manufacturers to spend billions on expensive EV cars people don't want. Germany is DONE. ALL major industries are moving out to China and the US due to very high energy costs. And you ALL kept quiet when it happened, just like Olof Schultz.
Bought my Audi 18 years ago. Have had many over the years but my 18yr old A6 is the best car I’ve ever owned. I’d buy another, but not with all the emissions crap fitted to it. My A6 is still no where near end of life.
The quality has dropped, prices increased, a lot of people can`t afford to replace cars.
Reliability has definitely dropped.
2001-2006 was peak Audi
@@pl1068 I`ve owned 9 Audi`s, the best years were 2008 to 2018. I still have my 18 Audi and love it. Quality and timeless.
@ just my experience, my 2013 has cost more in repairs than my 2003 and 2004, also not a fan of all the chimes for various things and the engine shuts of every time you get out of the car to open a gate.
You also need to factor in the fines that are looming when automakers are unable to achieve the unrealistic electric car sales targets they have been saddled with. Instead of trying to drive down the cost of EV’s, legacy manufacturers have greedily pushed up the price of ICE cars to close the gap and like many, this has pushed me deep into the used car market.
I'm glad you made this point Dave, about the accounting write off of the closed plant by Audi. This has been in my mind and I have not seen anyone else reference this. On the face of it, the directors were only forced to write it off because they had tried to sell it and failed. Having converted it from an investment asset to an asset for sale they had no choice. But the question now for the big accounting firms is whether they put more pressure on directors at all legacy car companies to recognise that their plant assets can no longer longer be held at cost in the accounts even if they are not actively trying to sell them. If they let directors continue to claim they are worth the their book value, you get a very strange incentive NOT to try to sell a redundant asset, because if you do and fail, you have to write it off. Yet one thing that all these companies need to do is to sell these redundant factories. My guess is that external shareholders will put pressure on auditors to reflect the true value of these. In any event, if they don't the share price will reflect this and the gearing of these companies in their accounts will deteriorate significantly.
My buddy drives a 2011 Q7 4.2 V8 diesel...seems to be an excellent reliable car (so far)
I will buy an Audi again next time. Best cars made in Germany !!
Great video
The 'legacy' automaker rot set in years back before EVs took off, eight years ago when the sales figures started collapsing. The pandemic, credit crunch and rapid electrification have all hit them in rapid succession and they sat back hoping to ride it out but the world not just the market has shifted under them and now find they acted too late, have to act quickly to catch up and need a lot of someone else cash to do it.
The competition from pure EV, Chinese and Korean automakers is making getting that cash harder and erroding their existing sales. The tariffs are just a sricking plaster to give the industry a year or so breathing space. But the consumer is aware of the underlying shift and witholding buying rather than fund the automakers transition buy purchasing current products.
The tariffs are also blocking the JV route of using smaller Chinese brands as a quick way to get on the low cost EV ladder. An approach the automakers used in the past with Japanese cars (Datsun comes to mind), but one which China is not seeking to adopt.
The brussels factory is an example, it was mothballed a while back as it was built in the wrong locations - dificult to get parts in and finished cars out. Its not selling for the same reason and the planned JV use is no longer viable due to the tariffs.
That's BS. VW Group made a Net Profit of €21 Billion last year so profits weren't collapsing 8 years ago. The EU should not have imposed ever more stringent emissions requirements on car manufacturers. Car manufacturers were forced to invest tens of Billions into EVs that consumers didn't want.
@@almac9203 - So you are saying that you don't want cleaner emission cars and that your happy for the automakers to churn out polluting vehicles that shorten lives, emisions that have been legally proven to kill children and at significant cost the tax payer for the associated healthcare costs. All in order to increase the automakers profits. Bit of an extreme capitalist position to take, very 19th century coalmine owner in nature, but that's your choice I don't suspect many will join you in this view.
In terms of BS, my statements are drawn from facts. By way of example take the UK historic car sales data, which shows that diesels and petrols growth have both been slowing over the last eight years, with diesels sales entering decline since 2016 and petrol sales since 2019. 2023 showed glimmers of a turn in fortunes for petrol, with the pent up spend from the pandemic being released but this hasn't sustained with petrol sales entering decline again this year (decling seven out the ten months reported so far).
With respect to VWG one has to dig behind the headline figures to see a company's position, the corporate profit headline figure obscures a whole multitude of details. VWG increased sales in 2023 on the back of the pent up pandemic spend, the majority of sales coming within the European market. However, 20% of these market sales were due to EVs, providing a higher return on their production line investments being premium, higher margin, vehicles.
However, looking into the 2023 operating details then in the eight years since 2016 although sales revenue and profit has increased over the period so has the company's operating liability debt, increasing by €77 Billion since 2016 to a whopping €220 Billion owed in 2023.
Indeed looking at their cash flow sources behind the reported 2023 profit, those from operations (sales, finance income etc.) was down €9 Billion on 2022, at €19 Billion. Further, VWG worsened it's liquidity (difference between profits/cash held and money owned to investors) by nearly the sames amount as it's profit (-€22 Billion) over 2022 to -€147 Billion.
If one look at it's future liabilities, mainly pensions, this again is another big number at €205 Billion, outlaying some €30 Billion annually.
It appears that although VWG is making a profit it is borrowing heavily to sustain such. VWG need to demonstrate concrete stategy and sustained sales to maintain investor confidence, the 2024 figures to Q1 to Q3, show sales are down 4.4%, operating results (monies) are down 20.5% on the same period in 2023 and liquidity reducing further by another -€5.9 Billion.
I'll leave it to you to determine for yourself whether reported profit alone demonstrates what you believe it does.
@@GruffSillyGoat total BS. VW has had a solid record of profitability over the last 2 decades. It wasn't just one year. Apart from the year of the dieselgate fines the VW Group has been successful and profitable. VW has a lot of debt as do many car companies. A portion of the debt is to do with financing of customers purchasing their cars so their indebtness is overstated but a portion was forced upon them by the EU emissions regulations. VW and other European manufacturers have been hamstrung by EU regulations which has forced them to invest tens of Billions into EVs that consumers simply don't want. VW is struggling as are other European manufacturers because they were forced to pivot to EVs which consumers simply don't want. BTW You make some BS claims about the need for regulations and clean air etc. The regulations are nothing to do with pollution but to do with CO2 and the BS climate change agenda. Politicians should let consumers decide otherwise they are going to cost millions of jobs. CO2 isn't poison nor pollution as you claimed.
@@almac9203 - the emissions requirements don't just relate to CO2, they cover other aspects such as particulate matter, hydrocarbons and NOx so you are incorrect there - lookup the Euro1 (1992) through Euro6 (2015) standards for example. These are Europe wide regulations that have become more stringent over time - even individual city wise with ULEZ rules have tighetening up over time and will continue to do so. It seems you're now focussing in on just greenhouse gas emissions but even the policies for these included all exhaust emissions not just CO2 reduction, which is why they are termed as zero-emission policies (having been put in place since 2015).
If you want to deny facts that's your choice but the UK's SMMT for car sales data is that issued by the industry and VW's financials are fully available, from which sources my facts are drawn.
In terms of VWG car finance debt, like all automakers they have a rule that their automotive division finance liquidity does not exceed a certain percentage of the vehicle sales revenue. For VWG this is 10%, which would peg that debt liquidity element at a maximum of €32 Billion of their total debt amount.
Consumer EV demand, well it's up in the major car buying countries including Europe excluding Germany that has it's own particular issues, as well as China. The UK demand for EVs of all types is up 14.8% so far this year, Petrol and Diesel have declined -3.2%. With BEVs up 24.5% in October alone, and 14.2% over the year. Global EV sales reached 30.5% growth in September.
The EY car buying intent report indicates that over 50%, of 19k people across 28 countries sampled, intend to buy an EV; this figure being 59% in UK.
So by the published and verified stats, it is petrol and diesel where the sales and interest are waning not EVs, and in particularl not BEVs.
The issue for European car makers is they hesitently produced EVs, entered the market late and expected uptake to take longer, planing on a slow tansitions that would lower their expenditure in shifting production lines and sought to sustain sales of their existing vehicles at the same time. Whereas the market has shifted faster, with those automakers who were more agile capatilising on the shift (pure EVs makers like Tesla, the Korean and the Chinese automakers have tansitioned much earlier).
BTW it's dangerous to claim CO2 isn't toxic as it can be causing a condition known as Hypercapnia that can lead to death, general atmospheric exposure shouldn't be a risk but in enclosed spaces car CO2 fumes can build up to toxic levels.
No doubt you'll call this BS as well, as you seem to prefer denial to fact.
@GruffSillyGoat I know the emissions regulations involved more than just CO2 however over time they have become ridiculously restrictive and are making it increasingly difficult for European manufacturers. At some point the regulations have nothing to do with pollution and health and have become about pushing a green agenda involving CO2. ICE cars are becoming ridiculously expensive and complex because of the regulations. On top of that ICE cars are going to be banned somewhere between 2030 and 2035 therefore manufacturers had no choice but to produce EVs that consumers simply don't want. You claimed that consumers want EVs but in many cases they are being pushed into them by government regulations. The EU is killing the European car industry with their ridiculous green agenda. VW isn't the only one suffering as BMW, Mercedes and Stellantis have all issued profit warnings in recent months. The EU forced the industry into EVs and that has put the industry at risk because customers simply don't want EVs particularly in the premium end of the market. The European manufacturers have had to pivot towards hybrids simply because consumers don't want EVs. The EU should accept the reality that consumers aren't embracing EVs and delay their mandates.
Nice presentation, very informative and eye opening especially as im contemplating transiting from ICE to EV?
Hi Dave new subscriber on the site I have found your contents informative and helpful. This review has confirmed what I felt was happening in my opinion a world wide crash is on the cards,
welcome on board
Stop producing cars people can't afford!!
Another sign Audi being in deep doo-doo is the fact they have flogged the fledgling Audi F1 team to Qatari investors before its even turned a wheel.
From what I've observed part of the decline in the big name manufacturers was that they decided that the post pandemic production 'problems' would be the ideal opportunity to readjust the market to where they thought it should be.
By this I mean they used the 'pandemic supply problems' to halt/scale back manufacture of the low margin lower cost models, and concentrate on higher end/higher margin models; make fewer cars, with fewer factories and fewer people but more profit. Result!
They also thought that if they priced their fully loaded EV models at the high end the public would acclimatise to the high prices we are currently seeing on all cars, EV or ICE. However, this backfired as finance got more expensive, Tesla started reducing the price of their cars (reducing prices over time was a stated aim of the company years back, so no real surprise) and the threat of cheap Chinese models arriving on western shores.
I don't think VAG, BMW, Mercedes will disappear, but we will see scaled back companies as they reduce ICE production and shed models and variants.
Another contributory reason, and one for a whole other debate, is the changing nature of motoring, fewer people are seeing a shiny German prestige car as the status symbol it has been for decades. I think a Hyundai, Kia, and of course Tesla, EV is increasingly occupying that role on the driveways of the executive housing developments.
I agree, the car companies saw that so
E people could afford the very high supply/demand prices due to supply chain problems and decided to stick with those prices.
They banked the good times never ending in China. They not only ended but ended suddenly. The most profitable era was the growth in China.
This has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the development costs imposed by increasingly draconian regulatory burden. Cars are becoming more and more expensive and are being priced out of the market. The regulatory regime for EVs is significantly simpler because there are no emissions and fuel economy standards to be met.
Plus the ever increasing punitive taxes on ICE vehicles and their fuel.
Exactly why BYD have been buying up used car factories at pennies in the pound. Plus it is an easy foothold in another country.
So, finally, the inevitable is happening to legacy
For me the question is "why would anybody buy an Audi?"
Audis are basically more expensive VWs. At the same time, performance and manufacturing standards of just about everything has been steadily rising, while a pandemic has eroded people's real incomes. So, why pay more for an expensive car that is almost indistinguishable from a somewhat cheaper one? When real incomes rise, people turn away from brand snobbery. Even Apple has had to drop its price differentials to retain market share, and that even after the USA tried (successfully for the moment) to sabotage the Chinese phone industry.
(as an example of the Audi gouge, I heard about someone who had a subssembly fail on an Audi in the USA and was told it was $900 to replace as a unit. He did a bit of research and found VW sold the identical part for the identical engine in a VW - but you could buy it as individual parts, and the actual replacement part was $15. Stories like this get round.)
It's a status symbol. But I think the younger generation tend to think it's a stupid one. Flaunting your wealth by leasing a car you can't afford makes little sense when you can't afford the rent.
They look better.
@@Kodakcompactdisc Than what?
@@EbenBransome Volkswagens, Audis are better looking cars.
Although I fully understand, and to some extent agree with you, it is just that - the brand. This logic could be applied to several brands, I mean a VW is just a more expensive Skoda. Various brands are just different versions of the essentially same thing, but presented in different ways so that manufacturers can target different people and sell more.
The problem occurs when the very foundation of your product is shaken, as with the EV transition, sudden competition from new players etc. And it's all happening during a finacial downterm. We've seem to forgot that it was only 3 years ago where you couldnt buy a new car even if you wanted to, because the dealers where fresh out of stock due to demand. Markets were fueld with covid money and interest rates on car finances like 2,95%. Today - not so much.
Things will get better once the economy stables, for Audi and others. But it will take time and the car industry map will be re-drawn quite a bit.
The Audi Q6 looks amazing but the fact it is only available as an ev & not a 3.0L v6 supercharged is a total let down.
And yet, if you want to buy a nice Porsche or Audi you nearly need to beg the dealership!! This kind of stupidity is just a Dinosaur way of buying cars! Go online, click a mouse and never speak to a salesman.... is the only way forward.
Audi lost a sale from me in 2021, the local dealers were appalling. Arrogant and not at all intesrested.
I love my Tesla. Used to own a Audi. Such a difference. Its like an old Nokia vs a modern iPhone.
Nope carwow is the best way to buy a car . Once you get one price you can start getting every other dealer to beat that price until they can’t go any lower . That’s the way to buy a car ….
New car prices have increased above a level that the mass market can afford, so sales are falling. At the same time new cars are being overloaded with expensive technology that nobody asked for or wants, demanded by bureaucrats who are hastening the demise of their own national car industries. Chinese EVs and Tesla are the future, a few legacy brands might mege and survive but in general there is going to be carnage (sic) in the old automotive sector.
The odd thing is the Chinese, and Korean, cars have the same 'mandated' tech in them at a much lower price point. The European car makers just seem to be using the tech uplift as an excuse to price gouge.
@@GruffSillyGoat True.
Well explained …its another Nokia and Kodak moment unfortunately
Hi Dave perhaps it’s just me not knowing where to look but where is the report you mention as being in the description?
Interesting stuff. Thanks Dave.
Would have to say Dave not all VW/Audi group cars are failing I have a skoda enyaq 85 and to be honest can't believe how many enyaqs are on the road in my part of the country (Merseyside) have to say absolutely a great car especially in my coupe shape 😀😀
I recon could be a chance they might do a complete u turn on this being done by 2035.. to many jobs at risk for starters and tbh if only half of cars on rds be ev then thats good enough for now .. give them time too adapting too ev properly as rushing makes mistakes
Because that's how the West catches up with China?
No that date is fixed in stone. In reality it will have to be much earlier. It takes so long to design, sort out and then build the factories to make the new cars that anyone not started now is probably already too late. Be late for this one and go bust.
@mbak7801 yes but not every country try is so the stone can be broken as not every country agreed to it .
Hi Dave, Thanks for your observations and very interesting report on EVs. In my opinion we will never have enough Renewable energy to cover our domestic needs and Milliband is already leaking that energy will have to be rationed in the future. Can you imagine trying to charge an EV under these restrictions and why would anyone with common sense consider buying one ?
Fossil fuels will be around much longer than EVs and EVs will be obsolete with technological improvements in next decades I for one would not have an EV even if they were giving them away free. If you value your family's safety why bother with them.
This is more to do with keeping the shareholders happy it’s a great example of it keeping profits artificially high for too long using higher prices and less research and development to keep shareholders happy and now Volkswagen group is paying the price maybe if they had spent more time with larger shareholders convincing them of the need for longer term thinking this could have been avoided. Only the super tech companies can seem to get away with offering the shareholders no dividends 😂 shareholder pressure for profits kills lots of companies
Presumably VW could sell some of their other brands to pay for the restructuring
Audi used to be a superb quality inovative car with the best reliability. Now they are an expensive unreliable car just like VW.... Thats why people are back buying japanese
Greetings from Southern California. I recently got a base model Ioniq 5 SE. Great city car. I average about 100 miles per month and charge level one at home.
BTW...........I'm 74 yo.
Cheers Dave .
I went on to the Audi UK site to spec the RS Q3 I want only to find they have quietly dropped it! Oh well, second hand it will have to be.
Around 25 years ago the rot in ICE really set in especially for German and Euro manufacturing. Vehicles were being made with staggering complexity. From dynamic hydaulic suspension systems that failed, injection systems that failed and electronics. This was combined with ever increasing Euro compliance standards that increasingly were impossible to meet. The consequence is widespread failure. And new vehicles no longer fit for pupose. And I include EV in this. Audi thought that complexity would save them. Reality is their engineering approach will and has killed customer confidence. And a car company needs customers...
Spot on.
Hi Dave. I have been watching your videos recently and finally decided ti subscribe. I plan on purchasing an EV in around 18 months and find your channel an invaluable source of information. Thank you 👍 However after keeping an eye on the market, the logical car for us would be a Tesla model 2. When do you think they will be coming to the uk? Keep up the good work 💪
My post seems to have been deleted already, but the "Model 2" is cancelled. It was shown off as the "self driving taxi" with 2 seats (!) to arrive in 5 years or so. It looks like they did the chassis development and then realised it could not be done for the money.
In any case, almost all the smaller EVs are supposed to arrive in your 18 month timecale, whether it's the Renault 5, a whole load of badge engineered Stellantis models, Fords, Mini, or some Chinese ones you haven't heard of yet.
@@EbenBransome Thank you for the additional info. Having read many reports of high milage Tesla's, they seem to have a really good reliability record, and very long lasting batteries. As i will be planning to keep my EV for many years, I was not sure if the established manufacturers would build longevity into their batteries. I would be looking for around 12 years (I appreciate the efficiency will drop over time, but after 12 years I would like 150 miles range to be still obtainable). Thank you again for you input, appreciated 🙂
Hi Adrian thanks for your support. If you check my older videos I suggest the Model 2 may never be launched anywhere, but in that event there will instead be several other models below £30k to choose from including robotaxi and budget versions or the Model 3 and the Y. Either should be out here late 2025 and in mass production 2026.
They should get into arms manufacturing.
They have.
There is certainly some value added in reading numbers to people who cannot read themselves. For the others value added dtarts with a view whether we compare zo a high base and why that is, whether there are anormal factors depressing numbers and where the company is in its product cycle. And then one should spend a few thoughts on valuation and what risks are prived or not.
Making cars only looking cool, but less reliable, cheap, and overpriced, that's what happens.
EV cars may be more sustainable for the environment, but all the electronics will be less sustainable for the end users. Hence, depreciation for EV is extreme. My Audi is 20 years old. I doubt any of the current EV models will ever have that lifespan. More money for less use? No thanks. Volkswagen used to mean "cars for the people". Now the Volkswagen group makes cars for the elite.
EV's sustainable? Nobody talks about the massive future problem of disposing of EV's along with their batteries and electronics, it's not like chucking a couple of AA's in the bin, are there even companies out there that can do it or will they end up in land fill?
The vorsprunged too far into technic. Audi cars are now ridiculously complicated. Engines with 5 chains, thermostats under inlet manifolds. Repairs are prohibitive so these cars only make sense on a lease deal. No used car buyer wants the risk so they have little value when the lease runs out. Rather than solve this with simpler cars Audi (and other German marques) are looking at scrapping cars and recycling at 5 years and trying to pass this off as "green". Compare the complexity of a top end Audi with a Tesla, also cutting edge tech but little more than 2 electric motors, a large battery and software that gets updated free over the air. Audi (along with BMW and MB) have pioneered the electronic write off, cars that are so complex to diagnose that owners give up. We are now seeing nearly new cars in main dealers for months with faults that mean the car cannot be driven but on systems that are not essential for driving. 3 months to fix rear wheel steering, since when did a car NEED rear wheel steering but once its got it it has to work. The elephant in the room is that even the base model Kia, Ford, Fiat will be very nice to drive, have sufficient power and handle well. Its probably OHC, turbo charged and has A/C so Audi have tried to justify their high prices by filling their cars with needless tech and at last consumers are seeing through it. I drive a 50 year old Land Rover, no ECU, power steering, AC or infotainment and it will outlast me, servicing is around £200 / year. When I decide I need those things I'll go straight to an EV. For those who know aviation i would give this analogy: Audi is stuck in 1950, making the most amazing piston engines when the jet age is just around the corner. The Wright Turbo-compound is a marvel of engineering but in 2 years Wright was gone and the factories closed, they tried to make a jet but failed. History is about to repeat itself.
I too own a LR a Defender (18 years old) that will also outlast me, its been 100% reliable as its electronics consist of one ECU, electric windows and a radio that it! Oh and its worth twice what I bought it for.
Audi steering rack dead at 7k along with the entertainment system, build for James Hunts
I think your reporting is inaccurate. VW, for instance, did exactly what you suggested. They reverted to electric only policy back after the dieselgate scandal. They invested billions in that in fact. The issue in my opinion is that you can have a profitable automaker which makes electric cars on a small to medium scale but you simply cannot (right now) have a major automaker to match that. Look at BYD for instance. They still make a fraction of electric cars in comparison to millions of cars from Toyota. 3 million (counting also non electric) in comparison to 10 million. Tesla for example 1.8 million cars sold last year which is about 18% of Toyota. Maybe prime materials and with that batteries should get cheaper before large scale production is viable. And I also believe Europe has no interest in loosing millions of jobs because of electric shift. Nor has England with its Swindon factories for instance. So - this video missed the point and only rumbled about legaca automakers :)
VW didn’t ever pursue a policy of EV only, the CEO actually got sacked for saying that. EVs were never designed to replace ICE
I give VW group and Ford about 5 yrs.
They are going to have to pull some massive rabbits out of a hat. I guess Ford is relying on begging the US Govt for some huge handouts.
Generous indeed.
@ I think they will reduce output over the next 18 months by about 30-40%. Then reduce employee numbers by around similar numbers. This will allow them to last just long enough to see they made a huge error believing the hype. And both companies will go the way of Rover and the rest.
My Audi A3 is 10 years old but only 60k miles ... I am 76 ... my last car :)
My leased EV has 2 years to go. I’m 75. I’ll then buy my last car - a Polestar 4 EV - second hand, top of the range, all the knobs and whistles for £25k less than book. My last car, too. Only £300/yr for electricity instead of £2500 on petrol. Over ten years I’ll save £11,000 on fuel.
My father has ordered an e-Golf, when he was 81. Now 4 years after delivery his car has 64000 km and guess how much wear and tear ?
Still first set of tyres, degredation of the battery is less than 5% and nothing, only the usual annual 100€ to 200€ for service and MOT every second year, and of cause the viper rubber he replaces each year for 20€.
Meanwhile he has gotten a 25 kWp solar array with 22 kWh batteray and in next spring a heatpump will complete the change from Oil to own electricity.
And he also has become an Octopus customer already, Octopus Heat cause Octopus has arrived in germany during the pandemic and has also started now to sell heatpumps too, but too late for him.
If you can find an e-GOLF VII aka the 300 km version (which is possible but only in summer and only driving cross country) make a test ride. Those offer during winter 160 km of range and in summer 250 km - enough for many and in case he needs more range he charges during a lunch and after 1hour he will have another 250 km or 160 km.
He is no longer in a hurry and tries to enjoy life more than before.
People like me are no longer buying new cars. This is the longest I've owned an Audi from new, now 8 years in, used to change every 3 years.
However the push for EV of which I have no interest, the neutering of cars in the way they sound and the lowering of quality while raising prices has put me off changing.
I will maintain mine till it dies.
I blame the Legacy Car Boardrooms.
koksy, they are going through tough times, but being the largest employer of the country, Govt would and should bail it out
Folks hit with increased living costs , less new cars sold , they will buy 2 year old EV s half price , lease deals look even better ..,In fact EV s are a good way to reduce monthly costs
Audi make cracking cars but as a massive mark up to pay their workers big money, they have to do this as they are totally Union controlled. So up went the prices and down went the sales but prices still kept going up so further depressing sales, this is okay if you are the only manufacturer but that's not the case, Tesla, BYD, Dong Feng etc all make better, smarter cars. The bubble has burst!
Kia is also unionised and pays well and does well…it’s down to management not unions
@@rb5174 I don't remember Kia staff marching up and down at Management meetings waving banners about like the do in German factories
Its the recession post lockdown...not EVs.
you missed a key point: if you appoint a new CEO than his first year will be a kind of status quo and this means all old possible burdens will be identified to give him the best starting point for a good turn around which is empowering employees and share holders.
It is usual scenario to paint the great picture from the previous seasons only black in black. And that means losses. If there is anything that could have a negativ impact in the future the likelihood that it might happened will increased from 5% to 100% and there you have a huge mass to play with and first of all lower the tax duties at least in germany. This mechanism is 30 years or even older - but was not used that much in germany till the 2000.
New CEO means big losses first to give him a better turn aroud position and it does not hurt to throw bad news after the old CEO.
It is easy in the VW empire to move assets and obligations around cause everyone inside the group is a supplier for everything for another group member.
This way the facturing of goods and projects can change - especially between Porsche and Audi considering that the VW group CEO is also the Porsche CEO .
Less profits on the Audi group make sense for a new CEO and increases the profits of the porsche group compared with the genuine figures.
Porsche went down a bit but might have had far lower figures without such changes.
I had worked in the car industry since the 80s after my military duty when they offered me to study - and paid me a salary. Right now nothing is unusual for a first year of a CEO cause he had arrived in late 2023. Next year will be a different thing, but as always those are strong brands which have grown big big times in the past decades.
Compare the growth with the decline of the big three who are more or less relying on their domestic market and now even BYD attacks them in their home market and key segment with their battery electric hybrid truck. Not the best offer for sure, but the key point is that they are starting and how fast they will be able to improve cause there are some things to do if you check underneath the rear passenger bank and some other spots. But the general product idea is not what many had expected a weak structure, rather the opposite: well suited for heavy duty.
If Audi looses market share after 30 years of growth they can live with that and adjust a bit.
Key issue is more or less the missing demand for EV where the politicians are too shy to tell the people you have to switch and also too shy to put new regulations in place that let the ice drivers pay the damages they are causing with their emissions. Double those rates and people will be faster to think twice cause only gas prices would increase at the gas station if people have to pay for what they are causing. If CO2 is so good for the environment all ICE drivers should test how long an animal will survive in their garage with a running engine.
Year 1: new CEO says everything is bad and starts massive cost cutting
Year 2: cost cutting continues at once racking up massive restructuring costs
Year 3: profit sky rockets due to reduced costs, CEO banks massive bonus
Year 4: profits continue, CEO banks another massive bonus
Year 5: CEO declares turnaround success, takes massive bonus and leaves
Time passes
Year 7: company is in dire straits with no new or improved products due to the CEO gutting the R&D spend in year 1
What an idiot
It’s not CO2 which kills when you run your fat in a locked garage. It’s carbon monoxide CO.
You know because all car industry is dead in the UK.. The way things go in the UK, no one can buy a new car in a few years time.
Time for new movie, Automobile Industry: TOO BIG TO FAIL .
its going to bomb big time.
Good luck... Oil companies have been making billions and filling shareholders pockets and politicians pockets. Maybe oil company corruption will die off.
Big man I can’t see the numbers and keep losing my place when you get flashing up yer mad coupon every 10 seconds
So the only way to save legacy auto makers is to stop all the affordable Chinese EVs? OH wait, that is what the 100% tariffs are for :)
The EU is focusing on tariffs. That will not help. Most car companies used to sell to China. The car industry has to reduce production by a third. If all companies reduce by a third they will suffer from the lack of economies of scale. So one third of car companies need to go bust. But EVs become cheaper every day due to technology improvements. The EU's race is to close one third of businesses and convert the rest to EVs. This assumes that they continue to sell to the USA whilst the USA goes through the same transition.
Completely despise Audi. Something in their marketing attracts the absolute worst sociopathic drivers, at least in the U.K.
If your manager drives an Aldi, change job.
@ I’m not saying all Audi drivers are bad. But the brand attracts the worst of the worst. I’ve had four near serious incidents on the road and all were caused by Audi drivers. The last one the guy nearly crushed my kid. It’s not just me, they did some data survey and found S3 drivers are the worst on the round categorically.
Agreed from the Netherlands too, most of time i experience rude driving , it's an Audi...
@@london_biker6177 not only audi, but bmw and mercedes as well attract the worst of the worst. The cherry on this cake are ALL mercedes drivers with Vienna (Austria) plates
@ ya it depends on the region. In the US it’s still BMW as well.
This is a very useful analysis Dave. I don't have the time to do the research you do, but what you are reporting is consistent with what I anticipated would happen. It's interesting that Tesla are thriving (number-wise) compared to other BEVs, but we don't want a society where everyone drives car that look the same, so we need legacy auto to get their offerings right. Most normal people don't want to spend large amounts of money in our currently cash-strapped economy on a Mercedes or an Audi BEV that might catch fire. The Chevy Bolt debacle has been extremely damaging to the promotion of low cost BEVs and GM in particular. In the UK, the hyperinflated car tax rates in 2025 for aspirational ICE cars will suppress demand something chronic except at the top end of the market meaning second hand ICE prices of such cars will increase. Many of us with high end BMWs, for example, will continue to run them until they die (mine is a spotless 2005 330i with the last naturally aspirated 3L straight six engine) and will probably see me out should it last another 10-12 years and another 125K. I would like very much to see what Tesla come up with as their cheaper Model 2, it might prove to be a game-changer as it will be a similar price to the new Fiat 500e that no-one is buying, after all - who wouldn't rather drive a used Fiat 500 Abarth!
The Model 2 got cancelled. It's now the "self driving taxi" due out in 5 years time. Don't hold your breath. And it has the same disadvantages as the Fiat, i.e. 2 real seats and little storage.
7:52) AUDI built a factory in Bruxelles for ONE purpose - building ICE cars. It’s useful to ONE business - that builds ICE cars. Oops!
This is what happens when you cater for rich people only. Is there an Audi for around 18 to 20 grand. NO. With extra taxes and EVs not selling the car makers are almost bankrupt. Self inflicted.
There's hardly a VW at that price...
I guess thats why Audi bought Skoda but then they're not cheap anymore.
Secondhand market? Yes of course there is.
Audi called me last week we can get you into a new car from your 3 year old Etron q4 I said no chance and I won’t be buying another one
Drive Under American Influence
The obvious option would be to continue making good, easy, predictable short term profits doing what they've always done. Alternatively they could commit to a risky, expensive and difficult effort to implement a major change in how they do things. Which would require a different skillset and worst of all, potentially even new people at the top able to handle such a challenge. Would the incumbents rock the boat, upset their shareholders and risk their own careers in the pursuit of such elusive long term success? In retrospect the strategy of instead doing what every other legacy car company was doing, that is the bare minimum of window dressing to ensure everyone a future of electric vehicles would not pass them by seems fairly predictable. Their downfall will be well deserved.
Yes, the legacy manufacturers are well screwed...sat back expecting to continue to cash in on their lucrative gravy train instead of waking up to the reality of change.
Complacency is a killer trait...as they are now discovering to their detriment and ultimate downfall.
A carbon copy of the 70's Japanese invasion that decimated the car industry around the world who failed to see it coming..they just don't learn their lesson do they.
EVs are not going to be so cheap in the long run, at least not in the UK. How will the UK Government replace the massive income from fuel excise duty, and the VAT on that? Some sort of tax or mileage charge, on ALL cars is certain. And oil refineries will be with us for a good while yet - where does all the plastic for the new cars and consumer goods come from? And the lubricating oil, the bunker fuel for ships bringing cars from China etc. Look around you - you are surrounded by plastic; all from oil. We are besotted by EVs and their importance, but ALL cars the World over only contribute to less than 10% emissions. We need to see the big picture, but that is not easy.
they have no answers for EVs at the same margins as their ICE offerings. China is cratering. VW, audi, arguably Porsche all have big issues
The A in audi stand for arrogance. Not a car for real people, no wonder they are not selling...
Car dealers lying WOW I never knew that are you sure
هذة الشركة في طريقها إلى الإفلاس
PROPAGANDA SPOUTED BY YOU AGAIN.
look at the EV sales figures compared to ICE cars, people DO NOT WANT EV CARS AT ANY PRICE.
Why are EVs being heavily reduced? It's because the sales are pitiful and nowhere near what is required to meet the net zero target.
The motor trade publications keep reporting a percentage growth in EVs, but look at the numbers, not a percentage figure. 41% increase of nothing is nothing.
I have looked at the numbers; EV sales are rising while ICE are falling. Loads of people want them.
Should have gone to Specsaver, more new EV sales (not percentages) each and every year.
Russia having a good laff
Audi is VW isn’t it ? Anyway another reason Audi is struggling is VWs strategy for al its brands . Skoda is the problem , their cars are just as well made as VWs and Audis , they’re often made in the same factories as are SEATs so a lot of people are wondering why they should pay more for what is an inferior product . For me Audi has always been all mouth no trousers , I’ve never fallen for their ‘ Premium’ rankings as they use bits and platforms from cheaper brands which BMW and Mercedes do not .
The Chinese have seen though this and so VW is now rebranding Audi in China and removing the four rings and calling it ?? AUDI lol , you couldn’t make it up ! VW seems to have lost its way and what’s happening at its brands show this ! Bentley is the same , people are getting wise to the fact that a Bentley is now just a big VW with expensive bits added , even the engines are VW cast off designs .
Same for Rolls Royce, full of BMW bits.
@ to a lesser degree to Bentley though , I think the Phantom is pretty much a bespoke platform though it does have BMW engineered engines . The Cloud I think is based on the 7 series . Though Rolls Royce bodies were always made by BL weren’t they ? It’s just that at least Rolls Royce uses premium parts and parts from a premium make whereas Bentley uses parts from VWs .
Low end Mercs have plenty of renault badges, BMW are not the premium brand they used to be either, the smaller 'prestige' cars are purely bought for the badge, quality is not that great. I went from an A4 B8 to a Volvo xc60 (2016) to a 3 series (2020), and im currently in an ID7. The XC60 was by far best quality car ive had, VW seem to have got it right with the ID7 in my experience so far.
@ remember Volvo are Chinese . Yes lower models of Mercs do such as the A class , but every Audi is a VW group parts bin special of some sort . Whereas there’s nothing of any other make in a 3 series or C class or 5 series or E class etc . Even the A8 was originally the Phaeton and is used for the Bentley flying spur etc . And of course Audis are FWD and some of their engines are slung way out ahead of the front wheels so they’ll never handle as well as a RWD Merc or BMW .
@@stevejewiss532 you're very sure of yourself for someone that is wrong. The Bentley flying Spur isn't an Audi and the Audi isn't a Phaeton. They were linked two decades ago but they haven't been for a long time. They are built on different platforms.
The new Audi Q6, A6 (including Avant) e-trons are really excellent cars with 800V technology on the new PPE platform. I'm sure these BEVs are in its class among the best. If Audi will bring Q3, Q5, A3 e-trons, their BEV sales certainly would rise.
£60k for the E-tron A6 in the UK, they won't be getting my money.. despite owning Audis for the past 40 years
Hyundai/Kia first released a 800V platform car nearly four years ago. They are lower cost and better spec'd out than the Audi models plus charge faster.
@@GruffSillyGoat Absolutely, couldn't agree more. But I still do believe that there is a market for premium EVs such as the new Audi models on PPE. 100kWh battery pack, smooth ride due to air suspension and other expensive gimmicks and really fast charging. I'd always prefer the Audi A6 e-tron over the Tesla Model S. Unfortunately, my current budget is hardly enough for a Kia EV6....
@@hausi78 - seems Kia is heavy discounting at the moment inthe UK, the base EV6 model is selling for £37.5k (£8.5k off) - possibly on the pre facelift model. Not sure if this is UK specific or not.
worst to come with thump in office
I'm not so sure. The US economy was booming under Trump until Covid. The US is Porsche/Audi's biggest market. I think Trump bringing peace to Ukraine will save the U.S. billions...less money printing = lower inflation = more disposable income increased by a booming economy. If Germany manages to kill the Net Zero madness and get their energy prices back to sensible levels they should be able to recover via U.S. sales. Trump will end the future BEV mandates which should allow German ICE cars (Which are their best products) to sell well. 👍🏻
or is he all talk? He rates loyalty above reality so has a debt to Elon.
@@davetakesiton $110 million from Musk won't go far. Trump and Musk compete for publicity, and one thing is obvious about Trump: he doesn't allow anybody to deflect attention from him.
Karma because of diesel gate? Lol
Tesla will follow suite soon. They are not immune to market trends.
New cars of any energy source are not my cup of tea to invasive in all ways, I've saved so much money and time by driving a used diesel and saved the planet more than tbose that buy new cars for fun every 3 years.
What do you think happens to a new car after three years?
Have a look for yourself and see used ev are sitting with dealers due to the deprecation factor like dave keeps pushing tesla driving prices down is no good if you own or lease last years car.
And lack of infrastructure meas why would anyone with no drive way or gargae want to pay public charging rates and inconvenience compared to ice.
I drive an electric bike myself alongside my car as i see it thats the better way to travel local and really make a difference.
I love the way many car drivers say they'll stick with the older, out-dated technology. For all sorts of reasons 🤔
However, I can say with certainty, these same people are NOT Watching, Replying, or interacting in any way with these videos - With an OLD, Inefficient, Slow, 'Cheap', PHONE 😂🤣
I have no problem with those who wish to STAY with older ICE - That is their choice.
But, please, don't deride the modern technology for just 'personal', misguided, beliefs 😇
@@ianhill20101 and yet the mist update in used cars is the EV segment.
I completely agree that anyone who can't home charge shouldn't get one but they do make complete sense for all those that can, at the point of vehicle replacement. That's when those new today-used tomorrow cars get bought... Just like when you bought your used diesel.
Just to be clear, I'm not paying any agenda, just stating as it is. I have cars from 1975, 1994, 2006, 2009 and the Tesla. Petrols, diesel, LPG and EV so my experience is anything but fanatical EV. 😉
I bought my current 2012 focus 1.6 diesel brand new just shy of £16000 and covered 200000 miles been very relible to be fair as lack luster as it is.
I understand oneday it will be a tin of beans in port talbots arc reactor when its up and running but i wint be buying a new car again even though i enjoyed this experience and build electric projects and work as a electricain until lucid levels of tech trickle down and charging infrastructure ill be chugging along keeping well serviced.
Im well rounded myself not baised from an electric forum and built some ebikes and surrons etc and I've drove an electric forklkft 😂
I look forward to the day when there are no VW Audi Group cars (and BMWs) on the road.
Dave, you bang on about how wonderful EV's are and that they are the future. Your enthusiasm is so misplaced from the truth, which is ordinary people cannot afford EV's. The figures speak for themselves. Gonna change you mind now, Dave?
Maybe watch the video again that is exactly what I say there are not enough affordable EVs available but that is changing slowly
I'm an ordinary person and I drive an EV.
@@huwjones5879 did you buy it outright, lease and worst of all salary sacrifice (if salary sacrifice you would have been better putting it into your pension pot)?
Another ev driving ordinary person here.
Europe banned itself from buying cheap natural gas from Russia while China ramped up imports and negotiated cheap long-term prices.
@@xperyskop2475 I think Europe had no choice but to stop trading with Russia. We have to have some moral values, and to stand up against violent dictatorships like Russia.
@@simonreeves2017agree, although we should have the same moral issues about China but seem to ignore that
@ I don’t trust China an inch, and in hindsight we should have stood up for Tibet. TheHong Kong issue was complex, and I feel the people there. But we can’t preemptively sanction China based on what they might do to Taiwan.
🎉Russia stopped exporting natural gas and oil because of Europe's support for Ukraine, so Europe installed solar and battery packs because their citizens had power restrictions after Russia stopped exporting. Now after 2-3 years of bans of import of spare parts and no currency to buy foriegn goods, Russia's gas production has company has large problems extracting gas and oil.
Russia's currency problems are so bad that they gave China SW Russia on exchange for military weapons to fight on Ukraine.
@@ski1749 Cool story broo . 😎
In response to your last comment… If only Mr Musk would get on a rocket ship and disappear off to Mars!
After Dieselgate, I will NEVER buy VW or Audi. 😮
I might well revel in the demise of an industry that poisons our families and lies about its damage. If ICE cars are so benign, why do some poor desperate people seeking an end to their misery put a hosepipe from the exhaust and then sit in the car with it....
The airline industry poisons my family, how many aeroplanes land and takeoff every second never really mentioned is by governments etc, you are utterly brainwashed if you think it is just ice vehicles polluting. The list is endless what actually pollutes the air we breath!
200 billion is the VW group with what ?
Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Bugattie, Seat, Skoda, the commercial vehicles incl. MAN and Saab and of cause VW.
And among those are plants and locations inside cities where the property alone is worth what ?
Dresden has even 2 sites in the city limits one next to a park and the football stadium not so far from the Semper opera.
Back in 1945 or 1950 VW had gravel and ruins, Porsche did not really exist - as car manufacturer and looking back then a lot more must have been achieved compared to the rest of the industry. The last big crisis when VW was on the verge to collapse is 30 years ago and it took 3 years to turn the rudder around, Ferdinand the 2nd, not Ferdinand Porsche, but his grandson Ferdinand Piech did it.
They will come back , but first they will cut costs and get a leaner production again. At the end a big part of the growth was won in china and now they have to compete with the chinese in China which is a tough race in such states where the government makes the rules.
Who in the west has any clue about that how they did hit the west ? New stronger EURO 7 emissions should be postponed in the EU if you ask the manufacturer, but guess what China had done: Force all manufacturers to deliver cars with EURO 7 from 2024 on and they did comply or stopped the sales of the car (even though it is called China 4).
China makes it easier for domestic manufacturers to sell their car at home - which we had not seen before.
❤
Legacy auto could have made compelling BEVs at competitive prices?
Nah, Dave, nah.
BEVs are a 3-legged disruption: electrification, manufacturing tech, and software-operated controls.
Electrification isn't too bad. Assembly expertise and outsourcing kind of works.
Manufacturing tech is harder. Legacy auto is stuck with old factories that can't easily be converted to new manufacturing methods - and their supply chains are not able to innovate rapidly. Their outsourcing model, lack of expertise, debt loads and union contracts rob them of flexibility.
As for software-controlled cars, thus far legacy auto has been utterly helpless. They can't do it themselves and their suppliers can't, either.
They really could not 'easily' switch to producing compelling BEVs with positive margins. In fact, they could not do it at all.
The sooner Musk goes to Mars the better. I like Tesla but he is becoming a liability.
@@paddylogan13 I agree, he’s gone from hero to zero in my book. Back in 2020 I bought TSLA stock as both an investment and in belief in Elon’s vision for a sustainable future. Now he is in bed with the loathsome Trump, I can’t stand the man. I also think Trump will destroy Elon, because Trump destroys everything he touches.
I doubt Musk is any worse than most other CEOs of huge multinational companies, it just that he owns a social media platform and can't stop posting his views on it, while all the others just keep quiet.
@@simonreeves2017 What did he Destroy during his last term?
@@ebbonfly Musk ? About $4 million a day in Starship rockets for 2024, and $18 million in X valuation.
What a load of shite. The reason new car sales are down is used car sales in combustion engines are at an all time high as there is low interest in electric vehicles. Just have a look at any used ev price
Check your data, ICE new car sales are still well below levels seen in the all time high of 2015 and 2016.
@@davetakesiton No one has money...
If people wanted to buy EVs, they would, but people instinctively know they are not the future.
so please explain how an EV is the best selling car in the world in 2023, beating Toyota and all petrol and diesel cars
EV's are not an option for many people due to cost and charging restrictions.
@@davetakesiton Not even in the UK top 10 in October, explain that.
Look, they may be the future, but not in their current form or at this time.
And what happens as Musk goes bankrupt? Like when the government and NASA funding for his ridiculous rockets stops.
That's what keeps the cars rolling off the line and it will end as his failures to meet targets mount.
It’s because they are German. Never have and never will own anything German. Audi are going into F1 which is a money pit unless you are winning.
You missed the Memo "BREAKING Audi DECIDES to SELL its F1 Team"
Ofc you have some German things. You might not be aware, but you do.
@ of course I do. I have adidas clothes and trainers. It there cars I don’t like.
Dave talks bollocks.
In the uk we will never generate enough power to charge the number of cars on the road.The plan is to force those on lower incomes off the road.They currently could not buy an ev, even if they wanted to.The government will progressively increase road tax and fuel tax to the point where they are forced off the road.Unless a more efficient and long life battery type is developed,there will be no second hand market for evs.
Don't write off the oil companies yet.... Elon Musk's fantasy project Starship needs 1000 Tonnes of Fossil fuel to barely get to orbit, and would need 8-10 other ships coming up to re-fill it up if it were ever to go to Mars (it won't), so thats 10,000 tonnes of Fossil fuel. How green is Elon Musk?
You’re just spouting pure fantasy. Just Google it for the truth, no fossil fuel involved at all.
But you ARE revelling in the collapse of all these industries..
reporting is not revelling check your definitions
@davetakesiton I both know the definition and disagree you saying you are simply reporting. Despite your protestations to the contrary, there is an almost sadistic glee.
EV's have have been, are and will continue to be a disruptive technology.
Whilst I don't disagree that many of the big traditional auto makers have rested on their laurels, often despite snr staff warning them to the contrary, years or even nearly a decade ahead of where we are now, it nevertheless doesn't take away from the fact millions will have their livelihoods affected.
The speed of these sakes collapses are nearly all attributable to the Chinese Market, where ICE cars have nearly totally collapsed.
Western manufacturers where too reliant of China for 75%+ of their revenues, and when that disappears in the space of a few years the proverbial hourse has already bolted.