Honda VFR1200F - DCT vs standard
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2010
- In a world first comparison test we pit the standard Honda VFR1200F against the auto gearbox version. The auto (or DCT) version is £1100 more than standard. Is it worth the extra?
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DCT rule!!! Until you have driven it you have no idea what to expect. Then you drive it fall in love with it and dont want another bike without DCT....Power of dreams!!! Vtec kicking yo!!!
What Vtec ???
Just bought a used VFR1200 DCT with 600 miles on it for half the price of a new; couldn't resist. I've ridden standards for more than 30 years... hard wiring in my brain is hard to break. Talk about a ghost in the machine. Bottom line, it's awesome. Dual clutch shifts quicker than anyone. No shift shock, bliss in traffic. Out in the open, I tend to leave in sport mode, and if I want get real aggressive, manual. I don't miss a clutch and focus more on watching road hazards. To each there own.
I've been looking for a used one. Wish I could find one.
10 years mcn has come a long way very helpful channel
yeah..you get it spot on..anybody who wants dct will enjoy it..its a great system..
Fairly explained, thanks but please tell MCN to invest in a furry windsock for the video mic
I own a Honda CTX700 with the same transmission system .. My bike is a cruiser
style seating position and the riding experience is awesome very smooth very effortless giving you more freedom to just enjoy the ride.. No regrets here...
Standard Trevor Franklin. Informative, straight talking no nonsense. Nice job sir. Looking at the VFR1200 and would now seriously consider the DCT just for something different.
Good vid but your mic is in dire need of a windscreen.
I remember when people talked about automatic cars this way, I wonder if it will take over on bikes as in cars.
Thanks for quick and honest review
As a truck driver of 10 years there is nothing I appreciate more on my personal vehicles than an automatic transmission. The last thing I want to do when I get out of that 18 speed big rig is have to shift again. I bought a Tmax a couple months ago and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far however it's not the best for long distance touring. I will have to take a look at this Honda come next spring.
Joseph Shanks I went from a burgman 650 to the dct VFR, great :)
Awesome. Glad its working for you
Great review!
I''ve owned multiple Honda DCT bikes. Absolutely love them
As a lower left leg amputee its a god send for me only having a prosthetic for that leg ... You hit the nail on the head ! I am hoping to get mine shortly heeee haaa ! Sounds a bit corny I know, but to me its like someone upstairs has been listening to my prayers ...
mcn what is fuel consumption of honda vfr1200f?
@MrSpeedfightRichy The point is that it shifts a lot faster than you can. It isn't an old-fashioned automatic, it's an "automated manual". In F1 cars, there's no automatic mode, but it's the same type of transmission. Two clutches, as he explained in the video. When you're in 1st, 2nd is already selected and ready to go on the second clutch. The only delay would be when you're in an intermediate gear and have been going up, and decide to shift down, but it's still probably faster than a human.
It's a wonderfull bike, just watch how fast it shifts with no lag, amazing. Turn to manual and you have a modern tiptronic and you keep your boots free of rubber marks from the shift lever. Just planning my next bike will be this one !!!
I've no idea if *anybody* still watches this video. It's mid-2021. I just completed a 1400-mile weekend trip on my VStrom It was great fun. I had almost bought a 1200F a while back, but couldn't find a manual version in excellent condition (timing...). After I trip like I just took - up and down the US Pacific Coast, including LA traffic - I'm damn sure I wouldn't have regretted the DCT. Now, more bikes have them and there are no complaints: still a bunch of fun, and less frustrating in traffic. What's not to like?! I'm guessing the acceleration was equal between them.
Watch again the white DCT Bike even with panniers romps away in that drag test.
Trevor you are a highly respected journalist and a very experienced rider but I cannot agree with your comments about the DCT version. In sport manual mode you are controlling the gear you are in exactley the same as a normal geared version. I've owned two VFR1200's and then got a go on a DCT version. The auto version absolutely kills the manual bike on acceleation!!!!! TMuch smoother and effortless gearchanges. I never want to ride a NORMAL bike again!!!!
myleftearful Then why wont you buy a motorscooter?
Zgmflegend there is no scooter currently available with this type of power. I have a tmax which is agile as hell but it has power limitations. I am also considering vfr1200 with the DCT for next spring. Are you biased? No offence intended. Just wondering.
I've got a Integra 750 "scooter" with DCT and it's awesome. I road the T-Max first but the Integra is more motorcycle than scooter.
what a joy to behold this presenter is.
Have you guys heard of a wind screen for your microphones?
Innovation always met with scepticism..... Great to have the choice of either system... and agreed the rear brake should stay foot operated unless in exceptional circumstances..
I own a DN-01 and I am quite satisfied by its performance... but! (Yes,there is a but.)
Some more torque would have been nice. I thought about changing it for the VFR 1200 D,someday. (New,the DN-01's price was €12,5k and €15k for the VFR 1200 D .) I have been test riding it and WOW! Awesome it was!
drive mode sounds cool .
i want it on my cbr250r. now that would be cool!
i vgot left hand issues, it will be perfect if there is more motocycle like this for me ! i can ride 7 hours straigh no problem on highway , but i can't play with the left handlebars for exemple like 2 hours straigh of littles roads , i feel pain after that.
Beast of a bike with DCT drives like a scooter in the city, love it.
I own a manual version VFR1200 (2012 model) and in some ways wish I'd bought the DCT (Automatic) version. Not for any other reason than simplicity. I like the idea of a lazy 175 BHP sports tourer. Sounds like fun. I've also got a Triumph 675R race bike so the need to have normal controls isnt always high on the list as I can swap bikes, however the quickshifter on the 675R is fantastic, would like one on the VFR1200 but that would then be a DCT model I guess lol
The clutch on the VFR1200 can be tiresome after a hard days riding, so the DCT automatic option would be quite nice I think. Also hanging onto the handlebars at wide open throttle is always preferable than having to use the clutch lever to change gear haha
beautiful bikes
@groMMit1981 the Honda DN1 i believe its called.
Its available in the UK, its kind of a cruiser type bike, very low to the ground with outrages styling, it looks like something out space movie :P
You know this already MCN, but WIND SOCK for the microphone in future please. :)
Otherwise, great vid as usual.
I think I would buy one for riding in urban areas with heavy traffic, ie, Tokyo, NYC, or anywhere I don't want to hold the clutch in and do 5 mph all the way home.
where can I buy a Honda VFR1200F DCT in California?
At any Honda Powersports dealership. I've seen a ton of them in CA.
any 600c bikes with something similiar?
Is that a contradiction in the final assessment relating to 'feathering" the clutch?
I would imagine most people that buy this bike, in either format, are not after a bike that needs a lot of clutch work to get into the power curve.
Does a 1200 need much clutch work?
So everyone including the main guy preferred the DCT bike but wont recommend it what am I missing?
I hope there is 1000rr dct 2016
@VMATT500C more wear than durability issue, the electro hydraulic changes the gears to clutch timing far better than a normal person would rendering the gearbox more durable but as for wear and tear, on cars at least, the system wears the clutch out faster leaving a 10-20% shorter clutch lifespan....and on cars, the double clutch systems seamless torque has proven to improve fuel economy
@groMMit1981 I think the Aprilia Mana is similar but not as high tech of a system as this, check it out if you haven't already.
I would buy one.
Where is it?
Most people say they don't need an automatic gear box in motorcycle, it's not fun. But they forget one thing that there is no a manual clutch in F1 cars any more.
True. People don't realize that auto shifting not only offers semi-auto but allows you to only accelerate and brake in situations such as heavy traffic or when you're simply tired and don't feel like shifting. It still allows you to shift but it also offers you the option not to and, most importantly, it eliminates rider error which can cause you to crash due to a failed gear change.
yea but we go on the bike or car for fun they go for money
Now here is the question for you... is it a welcomed change by the drivers. I'm sure plenty of them talk up how great it is, but this is racing... it's all about who is better....
In addition, with a quickshifter... DCT is going to get placed way down the list ..... Bikes are just getting too expensive for that... Very few people are going to want to trade power, weight, and price for that... It's cool tech, but it's best left for Focused touring bikes... Not sport touring or sport bikes.
is the dct faster than standard like in cars too
+Inna Leonoff yes
Yeah, please answer how it power walks (slower than 1 gear, you know, clutchiechutchy...smoood?
The bloody sound towards the end of this Vid, How hard is it to sort this out? I find the sound in these videos consistently poor. But I keep watching them because I'm interested in the subject matter in them.
I want one 2
treat as two different bike, simple, buy what you enjoy one.
I must say I'm a little disapointed because I thought you would still have normal gears and clutch levers, but maybe it's just a matter of adaptation. For the road, sequential probably works best considering the bike also has ABS and all... I guess we can compare this to the change in airplanes from manual to fly by wire. Ultimately, the machines always do a better job than we do. Now Honda you still need to work on TC for your bikes heheh
Is it a "sportbike"? YES
Is it a "sport tourer"? YES
Is it a "scooter"? YES
When I first went and got my motorcycle endorsement, I asked three people about what motorcycle to buy, and all three of them, unequivocally said a Yamaha FJR1300, to fit my frame and expected riding. While I didn't buy it, I found a new 2009 FJR1300AE (here in the U.S.) that was a demo, had 1800 miles on it, but was never registered or titled. This was a year ago. I've still to buy a motorcycle, but everyone I talked to about the AE asked me why I wanted an 'automatic.' Now, the funny thing is the FJR1300AE is NOT an automatic motorcycle, although it does have an automatic clutch system. It has a standard five speed transmission, the same as the other FJR's, except the shift pattern has Neutral at the bottom, and all five up. You HAVE to shift the bike, but Yamaha offers two ways to do it, either the standard foot shift, or you can select a paddle shift like the Honda DCTs have.
I've found a used BMW K1200GT I want, but today, talking with a friend of mine who would like to get a bike, he showed me a link to the DCTs, and I emphatically agreed that it would be a great beginner's motorcycle. Specifically, the CTX700 DCT ABS. My friend, at almost 40 years old, has never driven a manual transmission, so learning to clutch and shift a motorcycle while learning to handle it, and all the other sensory inputs of riding and learning a bike make it just that much harder.
Yes, I know that the 'old way' is time tested, and it works, but I wonder how many more riders we would have on the road if more bikes had a DCT style transmission for them to use, instead of learning to clutch and shift.
I think that Honda may actually be opening the door to more riders, and we, as people who know the old way, should not put this system down, but instead support and encourage new riders to use it, as a way of building the number of motorcycle riders. If we could have more bikes use this style of transmission, versus a CVT, I think that we could encourage more people to consider riding. While it would probably not work well on a single cylinder bike, like a CBR 300 or a small two cylinder bike, like the FZ3 or a Ninja 300, a two cylinder bike of 400cc or more would be an easy to handle, easy to ride, and easy to learn motorcycle. We could see a resurgence in new riders, which would be good for all of us.
I dont think that manual shifting really makes any difference for someone that wants to ride bikes. Its not that difficult anyway, its a matter of one or two days to get used to it. I remember myself when I bought my first bike with clutch 25 years ago. I went from the shop 200 meters and engine off because of the clutch but that was the first and last time, I was fully used to it by the end of the day.
Wind screen for the mic
They should have added a foot gear lever with the very same function as the finger pedals. Then it is much closer to an old-fashioned bike with ignition kill switch.
It's an option.
@gregoreau
No way, how many people would (by shear habit) grab a hand full of rear brake (when in the back of their mind they're expecting a clutch) if they had a lever on the left. It's enough for people to get used to changing gears like that without moving the brake from the pedal we're all used to to. Nothing wrong at all with the rear brake staying right where it's always been IMO.
"General consensus from three riders is whooooosh...whooooosh...clutch.......whooooooosh.....stall... whoooooooosh."
I was hoping for some numbers to compare. You talked about them going side by side, why not show us a drag race with equal riders.???
+Patrick Wheeler The DCT would spank the shit out of the manual.
I'd have to see it to believe it. I'm a need proof kind of guy.
You don't have to use the clutch when shifting at a traditional manual transmission either.
which shifts faster
Inna Leonoff DCT a lot quicker to shift
I love my honda ctx 700 dct
Sound; Windy Miller
Prefer gear lever rather than a handlebar mounted shift. Same system, different location.
@camaro8020 lmao, ive never had seen a review on one, are they bad? personally i hate the styling.
People are idiots. It is AUTOMATIC. It just does not use sun gears like most conventional automotive automatic transmissions nor use a torque converter to transfer power from motor to transmission. Gear shifts are handled by a computer thus making it automatic. Good system which will be better for commuters, drag racers and off-roaders.
No, it is not an automated manual. It's a dual-clutch setup, as stated in the video.
xorbe2 It's an automatic / semi-auto dual-clutch transmission. The important thing is, it's an obvious improvement over manual.
euheide automatic
ɔːtəˈmatɪk/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control.
DonTHEhandsome1 you buying 1200cc sport touring bike for commute ?! And that's why you need auto transmission ?! ..... OMFG.
The guy sad it , people with disabilities will be the demographics. I have a friend who lost his left leg in a crash. Now he has to modify the gears on his right foot. This bike is perfect in that regard.
cherniqhs One wrong assumption and one misconception in your comment:
assumption: that commutes are all the same and that there are no very long commutes.
misconception: that auto transmission isn't a huge help in traffic situations (and it is indeed a huge help) and repetitive riding, when you're tired, etc.
No, this bike wasn't build with disabled people in mind. It can be ridden by disabled people but the purpose of the bike was to provide more comfort by reducing the need to shift, especially in traffic.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks...
I guess clutch is preferable for me 'cause I'm 45 and that's the way I learned to drive. On the other hand DCT is more complex for maintenance & service and should increase TCO more that the normal clutch.
You don't need to learn how to operate something which operates itself ;) If you're 45, then more reason to prefer the DCT since it saves you a lot of physical work, especially in traffic. Maybe you'll appreciate it more in a few years.
nice wind noise
would be good for police or people riding constantly around city streets and traffic.
Tad big for an around town police bike to be used in city traffic
1:58 interesting how the bike is not moving and speedo reads 6 mph
I have a brand new duel clutch vfr. The bike rides very well. The sport mode is very good and the manual mode operated on the left hand grip is fantastic.
However the drive mode or economy mode as honda call it is a pile of poo. It shifts to 6th by the time your at 30mph and then fails to shift down enough gears for bends most of the time leaving you in 4th lent over and the engine feels like it's labouring. Also drive mode in hills is shit. If you are on a steep incline it doesn't recognise you are and labours up the hill in 6th.
Other that D mode though the bike is fantastic
But you always have the semi-auto option for those cases when you don't like the full auto gears. So it's not like manual would be better... The difference between DCT and manual is that, now, you have the option not to shift.
The whole point of drive mode is for the gas mileage, not sporty riding. That's why it upshifts so quickly.
Dct -perfect in Londons traffic.
Is that clutch smoke? hahaha. Yes i know, no manual clutch. It is in fact steam made from rain water heating up upon bikes downpipes and radiator.
Using words / terms like: "Gimmick" (5:30) and a "Lazy Mans' Way" (6:14) shows off your prejudices. Modern auto boxes on cars are now far superior to manual. What would you prefer to use going around the M25? Yet F1 use a very similar system to this one...why? Best, Pete. (who's probably older than you).
Honda sell a lot of mopeds ans scooters around the world so they already have a large twist and go market. if any off you have road a scooter there fun.honda have been playing with autos since the 70s but they were a lesser bike with no performance but this is a quick enough for me bike
This could actually be quite confusing. You screw this up and you could pay a very akward unpredictable , painful penalty.
DCT coming to BMW 1000RR & DUCATI 1199 SUPERBIKES 2014
Put foam over mic to eliminate wind noise. IT'S HIGHLY IRRITATING.
sort out your mic, its bloody awful towards the end of the vid.
I see you've got The Stig there, at 3:23 :D. Except he's a bit uglier :D. Nice bike, a lot of touring addicts will want the auto version. The only doubt left is durability. But I guess it's a Honda, right?
a big beautiful bike in person, but auto-trans sounds like something for a old man to use.
I bought it last week. Friggin amazing sport mode only. It shifts so fast by the time I'm in 4th gear the avg good rider is still in 3rd. Hard to keep up with this bike. You better know how to ride or shes gone. 170hp bike is no joke lol!
I have an VFR800 gear driven cam, thinking of getting the dct for a bigger bike to ride with my wife, are they easy to ride as far as smooth throttle?
@@yournamehere3679 yes
Nice scooter!
OMG will you guys please use a proper mic - they dont cost much
Ever heard of a silencer for microphones?
Huh, I can't hear you, the wind totally fucks the sound...
@bmwmad1 and maybe HD.. i mean.. its 2010-2011. seriously
ducati will hiring ferrari in term of dct racing to compete this
this bike can only suit a maxi scooter driver who wants something bigger :-/ i really like to have full control of my bike
Great if you dont have a left leg or left arm.
No matter how you look at it VW group invented DCT technology and everyone of the japanese companies has copied them. Nissan with the GTR and now Honda with their motorbikes.
i cant imagine bike without clutch and gear leaver. dosent seem right
Paddle shifters have taken over the sports car world, and even sporty sedans have paddle shifters now. Paddle shifting will one day become the norm in motorcycles too. Exactly what is wrong with paddle shifting ?
what, what is he saying, all i hear is wind noise... zooming in doesn't zoom the mic closer.. lol
He,he Bye,Bye clutch WHELLIE ! ! ! ! ! :)))
Duyputren's contracture on my left hand and no way to get an op this year means this might be my only real chance to rude this year.
I DON’T THINK THE TEST WAS SUBJECTIVE ENOUGH. Where is the traffic you rode in? One of the best benefits would be in heavy traffic where you need to clutch shift clutch in then out then shift over and over again. In DRIVE Mode you would just simply throttle on throttle off. We all know how traffic suks! Stop go stop go stop go stop go. We don’t even want to be reminded of riding in stop and go traffic. The DCT makes it as easy as it possibly can be. Not even a quick shifter can do traffic as well.
So if you live in LA or London or Philadelphia, what could be better on two wheels than a DCT, a scooter? Well you wouldn’t want a scooter on I5 or I95 or I676 or some other urban highway.
although the clutches are AUTOMATICALLY OPERATED, aren't they?
and you called him an idiot. ha. the irony.
Buy a motorscooter if you don't want to use a clutch.
WHY? That's a really stupid statement. How many people who drive cars do you know that have never driven a manual transmission? Do you really want to see those people trying to learn a motorcycle and dealing with a clutch and a manual transmission, or would you like to see them out riding with you? This technology, if used in a positive manner, instead of your negative manner, would open the doors to motorcycle riding to a whole lot of new people who are too scared because they don't know how to shift.
Totally agree with you Shlomo ... there is nothing like riding a manual bike in the traditional sense ... but as a lower left leg amputee the advent of the DCT type gear box is tantamount to me getting back onto a bike vs having to be relegated to a trike ... and bugger that if I have the choice
))))))))))) 1.46 пар или дымок?))))))))
A dinosaur reviewing a space-age bike....
Chewing while presenting, seriously? Wind noise was terrible. Made what could have been a very good video very hard to watch.
Didn't make sense what he was saying
lol yep, argues against the fact that you cant feather the clutch at junctions then 30 seconds later says he wouldnt buy one because you cant feather the clutch. hahaha piss poor mcn
Injured people. That's your target market? Perhaps you meant intelligent people.
For fu**s sake!, please please fix the wind noise problem on your recordings.
How anyone watches and takes advice from the people who make and post items like this full of wind noise,wobbly shots, is beyond mme