I watched the cartoon on RUclips when I was in 5th grade. The Holy Ghost told me the following: "Many things they are saying are correct things, but told in the wrong way. Meaning, they are mocking the things of God to make Him look like the bad guy, while at the same time denying His Power and Authority, causing these wicked men who produced this to follow the false gods of Babylon."
That is spot on how I feel about it. I saw it for the first time about a year ago though, and was looking at it through a more analytical lens as adults tend to do. It sounds like you were very spiritually in tune at a young age.
Yes I been taught these theories not the sex and racists crap they pull out out of their poop, but it was called theory not gospel, I 24 have came up with theoreis half of them on my own but they construed it, what viscose lies they said,
It's the difference between "For a woman to get pregnant, she must have sexual relations with a man" and "To get bred, a woman needs to be humped by daddy". It's the same true message, but with two very different portrayals.
I met a family who joined the church because they saw the God Makers and the week after saw some missionaries on the street and told them they had just seen it... they asked the missionaries all the questions and joined the church... it is also important to know that the Council of Christians and Jews pronounced a statement against the movie for it lies and misrepresentation.
Missionaries told me they loved it when the God Makers was making the rounds in their area because they would get a surge of investigators. Movie backfired bigtime!
Saw this on my mission when it was being shown in other Protestant/Evangelical churches as a "learning tool' to teach what Mormons "really believe". At first, I was laughing at the way the film was made. I haven't seen it for almost 40 years, but it seems like it starts out with a flyover shot of the Washington D.C. Temple with the tenor of the film being very dark. Almost like the Temple was a dark cave of mystery, and because they were good Christians, they were going to reveal the secrets and help their neighbors out of this anti-biblical, anti-Christian cult. Towards the middle and the end, I was very upset. It had, in my perception, a very dark feeling to it. But I think that was purposeful, but many misunderstood the dark feeling as a confirmation to the material rather than the spiritual darkness cast due to the evil lies that were told counter the restored truth.
For me... the more they talk crap the more I dig my heels in💪😅. Honestly, it's strengthening for some. Sadly for others, it's their spiritual demise. What I don't understand though... is why people don't see logic that a religion teaching hate toward other religions might not be what God would do. I mean the evil that should be focused on are the things of the world that are in our face, Obvious evil. Pastors don't know the Bible when they're teaching hate and division
When I was a missionary I had a Catholic guy come to me (we were teaching his wife) because someone was bashing his faith and gave him an anti-Catholic pamphlet. He was having a little bit of a faith crisis because of that and felt comfortable coming to us, and I explained to him that the bad feelings he was having in that moment were coming from the fact that the man who approached him wasn't building him up but tearing down his faith. Anti material in general is not uplifting and does not invite the spirit, and the bad feelings you get from reading that material says more about the material itself and the people who gave it to you than the faith it is attacking.
I once met one of the animators (or someone who claimed to be one), and he couldn't stop apologizing. apparently the crew who did the actual animation stuff were largely jewish, and were surprised to learn what they were actually working on.
@@WARDRADIO He's a friend from my mission days, and we've stayed in touch over the years. I asked him if he would like to chat with ya'll, or maybe if I could relay his story, but he would like to remain private. But I will say, I don't know if his story is . . . entirely accurate. He's . . . a 'colorful' character who views himself as a druidic-catholic-jew, and who regularly participates in neo-pagan rituals which involve shall we say . . . less then mentally stabilizing substances? But he has had a veeery interesting life. I'd put the odds of this being him actually having done it, rather then a false memory from some mushroom trip, at about a 50-50 . . . So . . . yeah lol If I can convince him to let me do a write up and shoot it over, I'll reach out :)
@@a.r.hollowayauthor7210 50-50 chance? I mean if he could provide evidence that percentage would go up but with just him talking about it are we even sure it is near 50?
The angels aren’t extraterrestrial in the sense that they come from another planet. They are actually either pre-existent spirits awaiting birth on earth, or ones that have already lived on the earth. The point is that they belong to this earth, but presumably can visit heaven. Where is heaven? It may not even be meaningful to talk about its place, if it involves another dimension. The point is that, doctrinally, it’s unknown.
This came out my senior year in high school (southern California). A friend brought it over with a youth pastor in an effort to (1) dissuade another friend from being baptized and (2) convert me. I laughed my butt off through the whole thing. They asked if I was afraid of the truth and I said, "I hope you play this thing forever; it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Whoever sees it will look for us just to ask what we actually believe." They weren't amused. That friend never joined but several others did.
I seem to recall an intro where people were meeting with a lawyer hoping to build a case against the LDS church, and this was part of their evidence. At the end they were dissuaded, told, "they're just too powerful and secretive." Perhaps I'm misremembering.
Exactly! It is the most blatant slander of the church! It does break my heart though of how people will not be Christlike and seek to destroy in the name of God. That’s why I love how the Church says we are ALL children of god! Because we all are in this world together and should act like it.
So many of the things my my protestant friends said to me in the 90's about being a mormon suddenly make sense. I always wondered where they got these insane ideas. I eventually just started telling them all I was going to build the star wars universe after I died.
This movie if you can call it that was played at my HS in the 80's shortly after I joined the church at 14. I went throw hell via my fellow classmates because of this stupid film. Later right after my mission I saw it again in my home town at the Baptist church. I was invited by the lieing paster to come speak about my mission. I arrived with my father to this church and in the forayer there was a large table full of anti Mormon literature. I went into the chapel, sat and watched this stupid film and listened to Ed Decker himself (man behind the film and much more evil). The paster never gave me a formal opportunity to speak, seems the paster was really good at lieing. I stood up anyways and bore witness of the truthfulness of Christ gospel and his church, and Joseph Smith. As I was ending my testimony a few people started singing to drown me out. One thing I learned is that I never want to be a Baptist as people from this church are rude just as they are in Utah where I served my mission, and sense have had run ins with them. I feel sad for these people as they are presenting a bad example of being Christ like. Even though I am well versed in anti Mormon talking points I prefer to simply bare the truths of the gospel of Christ versus talking about anti Mormon crap, devil crap. Sorry it saddens me that people can so easily be deceived, and be dragged to hell by the chains of satan.
I take my hat off to you. You walked into the lions den and left with the spirit of God at your back. Who knows you may have planted a seed. I always say, we sow seeds everywhere and let the Lord do the rest. I have always believed that you don't get into arguments or contentions, even some so-called debates aren't worth it. You spoke your testimony, stated truth and facts. It's what we are called to do. Thanks for your example ❤
Wow! You and your Father had a lot of courage to do that... I'm so proud & impressed with your willingness to still bear truth of what you know to be true. In some ways it's casting pearls before swine, but hopefully others could see how shamefully you were treated and parted ways with that hateful bunch. Can you imagine inviting someone from another faith to speak to your congregation and then setting them up like that?!? Someday the tables will be turned and you can show them what true Christlike grace should should look like. ❤❤❤
Holy cow just answer the man’s questions simply and honestly. This was so frustrating to watch, I wish Brad was there to clarify our doctrine for the nonmember watching this horrible movie. I feel like all of the answers were confusing and just danced around the doctrines.
Yeah he should always invite more of our theological studiers of our gospel for these, I actually new some of those theories and could see the bastardization of them and the up mad up lies of theories, easy, but I just 24 year old, missionary and I kinda feel like, I was just well you debunked him yes but ah let's talk about the iconic theories
yeah was alaways quick to dismiss the points of the video without explaining the real doctrine or history behind the videos misrepresentation... should have watched it in advance and had explanations and answers for all the points
Mark Twain’s “All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the ‘elect’ have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it" have actually helped spread the message.
How helpful was Twain calling the Book of Mormon "chloroform in print"? Twain was no friend of Mormonism or of Christianity. His book Letters from the Earth really captures his anti-Christian notions.
It feels like for every 3 seconds of film that was watched there was 20 min of talking. It made it hard to maintain interest. That being said, the cartoon was filled with a massive amount of falsehoods. It was comical really. Thanks Ward Radio for making this video, keep em coming!
Could you dive more into the falsehoods? maybe point to the things that were actually true? I've heard mormons saying that it was true just apparently not told the right way.
I met Granny Geer's brother on my mission , part of which was in Kansas. His name was Lenzie Crum, I believe. He told me that she didn't like the church and she left as soon as she could. She wrote an anti-Mormon book that was mentioned here at the 14 minute mark, and her brother showed it to me. Lenzie told me that the book was hogwash. Funny thing was, was that after his sealed wife passed away, he married a non member who believed every part of the book his sister wrote. Made for an interesting night being fed dinner by these two people.
@latterdaysaint not to mention that it can be found in what little first temple related scriptures we have. In one of the books of Enoch(forgive my ignorance of which) Enoch ascends through the several levels of heaven, giving a code word to the guardians so they will allow his passage, then being robed in the holy garments, and then finally being sat upon the very throne of God, and taking upon him his name. Likewise in ancient Israel the king would sit upon his throne during his coronation and wear the name of God upon his head.
@rodneyjamesmcguire because we believe as the ancient Israelites and ancient Christians believed? In Theosis? The Greek Orthodox church today still believes in Theosis. I also believe they can't get over the whole God has a glorified body, Jesus does as well, but he doesn't share a body with God, the holy spirit also is its own entity, and we believe in a mother in Heaven.
I thought it was funny/sad to see RUclips channels passing it off as something the Church made then tried to hide. When I saw it in 1988 I could tell that they were intentionally shoehorning this eerie vibe into it.
Kolob wasn't Joseph Smith's idea. It was part of Abraham's astronomy. It really is a metaphor for Jesus: it is closest to the throne of God; it governs all others; first in creation; gives light unto everything else...
@@TheMightyJor book of Abraham was a fraudulent text . Joseph Smith made up the translation and said he got it from reformed Egyptian scrolls lol egyptologists say there is no such thing as reformed Egyptian and that the actual scroll Smith translated from has nothing to do with bible or Abraham , it actually contains funeral ceremonies of the dead in regards to Egyptian customs, nothing to do with Abraham. Joseph Smith made up a lot of things like book or Mormon too
@@TheMightyJorSo you agree ”Kolob” isn’t referenced in any non-LDS source? It’s frustrating as a Jew to be told “Well, Kolob comes from ancient Jewish texts” when indeed it does not.
My zone leaders were shown this while on my mission. I'm glad it wasn't me. I'm sure the person that showed it would have been insulted by my uncontrollable laughter. This was awesome.
I remember The Godmakers all too well because it came out in 1982 the year I started my mission in southern California in July 1982. It had a very negative reputation. My mission president told to stay away from it. I watched The God Makers about a year ago, it is so a pathetically silly joke and was poorly done. I didn't even watch it all the way through before losing interest in it.
My brother was offered something around 200,000 dollars to leave his mission and go to work for The Godmakers peeps while serving in San Diego! It was around 1980. He really found his testimony during that time and later went to the Manti pageant every year for a long time to stop these antis lies that would pull young people away from the church. He helped many members understand the truth. I love my brother! Antis got to know him well and tried to steer clear of him, because of his knowledge of the truths to their lies!
I’m in my 50’s and this is the first time seeing this absolutely ridiculous film. The reason I’ve never watched it is, because my mission president said it wasn’t worth our time. He was 100% right. I said it already, and I’ll say it again, “It’s absolutely ridiculous!”
The Mountain Meadows Massacre is probably the biggest stain on our church. I know people who’s great, great grandfather’s were involved. And still to this day the family is mad at the church for the harsh punishment they received, by Brigham Young, for doing what they did, including blaming it on the Indians. It’s still a very touchy subject.
I watched this when I was like 16 back in 2007. I was already on the rocks with the church, I remember thinking it was really out there and stupid that it couldn’t be accurate. 😂
One day on my mission we ran into a guy that wanted to argue with us though after the conversation we had responded to every of his attacks and it left him with all he could say was "I want to see the God Makers"
Am I wrong as interpreting what you're saying as not having so much an issue with what is said as much as how it's said? It seems you're usually saying something along the lines of "yes that's technically correct but said in a way that seems to mock it"
What better way to demonstrate that we are not afraid of anti-Mormon claims such as these than to show them openly to your non-LDS friend and broadcast it for the world to watch.
17:30: Holy crap, this woman in the video is my relative. So, the widow she's referring to who was married to John Doyle Lee was Abigail Shaeffer Woolsey. Lee was originally married first to one of her daughters, and then plural married to Abigail and other daughters. Abigail died on the journey west and was buried next to the Sweetwater River. My ancestor was Abigail's son Thomas, who was in Company E of the Mormon Battalion.
Cardon you're trying really hard not to give it straight to him. Yes God has a physical but glorified body (we don't know what that's like exactly but we would say Jesus resurrected with that same type of body and some of us in the resurrection will eventually obtain that same type of body too.) Yes God dwells in a physical place near a star called Kolob. We don't know where that is or if it's even accessible through regular space travel, but that is what is said in our scriptures.
I agree, I feel like Cardon is acting so confused when it's pretty obvious where they are getting a lot of this stuff. Like the "Elohim origin story" is obviously their extrapolation of the Lorenzo Snow couplet: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Not to say that what they are stating is doctrine (which they are trying to portray it as)...officially we just don't know for sure. But even church leaders in the past have tried to make their own conclusions about the ramifications of our doctrine. I'm not trying to give the creators of this thing any credit btw. Everything is presented in very bad faith and they are doing an expert job of mixing truth and lies and making it all come across super weird and creepy with the animation and music.
When John Dehlin had Ed Decker on his podcast, he made Ed watch it. Dehlin was praising Ed like a fly 'round dog poop and Ed Decker seemed embarrassed at Dehlin's brown-nosing of him and of the cartoon...Decker seemed embarrassed by the cartoon, in watching it in 2020 or around that time of the podcast. It is a massive knee-jerk reaction of the church and an angry ex-member
The way they've taken some of the most beautiful pieces of doctrine that we believe and twisted it into something ridiculous is disgusting! They heard "we are all children of God" and took "endless celestial sex."
Man, Ed Decker really makes our church seem a lot less boring. If sacrament meeting were anything like this, any and all less actives would return in droves. I still want my own planet, dude. I'd be happy to report to Starbase Kolob.
I heard about the godmakers on my mission... We were teaching a person and warned them that now they started to talk with us, anti literature will be presented to them. They said and I quote... My church doesnt do that! I told them to ask there leaders if they have the movie. We made a deal she comes to our church and we would go to hers. As we walked into her church her leader walked right up to her and handed her the movie. I literally turned around and pointed in her face and laugh saying i told you so... She acted sheepishly and shuned away. It was classic
Cody wanted to know if Jesus was in the picture from the beginning. Of course he was! John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
34:36 what about "as man now is, God once was, as God now is, man may become." Meaning, God was born and gained a body, and was perfected and became a God. Carden trying to talk his way around it is so funny. It is totally accurate.
Except the way they portray it is not accurate. They make it sound like God was born a God to some extraterrestrial Godly parents and grew up to be God Eternal. Not accurate at all. Total misrepresentation of mixed half truths and lies.
Yeah, I wished Cardon was a little more candid. He kept reverting to mishie mode and treating Cody like a golden investigator. I kept waiting for him to pull out the flip chart and committment cards!.
Yes he should just own it. We still believe in polygamy in Heaven. It's been a thing about Mormonism that we have to come to terms with. I don't think he's really thought that hard about it.
I might add Ed Decker was excommunicated for adulatory and he was so mad he went after the church. At one point he tried to come back to the church but was not allowed and even got madder. He fought against the church through the rest of his life.
@kelloggscuts1820 I don't know Deckers' story. But as a person who was disfellowshipped, it takes a lot to get back in full fellowship. I can imagine it would be harder and take a lot more if you were excommunicated. And if he wasn't willing to put in the work, they wouldn't just let him back. That's my guess anyway. It took my husband almost 10 years to get refellowshipped because of his stubborn nature and his hesitancy to follow authority. It takes a lot of humility to get back in good standing
@@lukev483 Actually, Jesus told her to go and sin no more. Jesus did not forgive her. A person who has been excommunicated needs to repent. It is possible he was obviously not sorry.
Cody was "miscast" here and should never have been brought onto this particular episode. Cardon needed a fellow former missionary aged 40s/50s who has experience with this film and its influence. Cardon wastes our time backtracking to address basics (e.g., Cardon explaining baptism for the dead. C'mon, Cody!).
@@g.p.ryecroft yes it seemed like Cardon really wanted someone to laugh with and make fun of it like he would have with Kwaku and the others but of course Cody has a totally different perspective. Cardon should have either tried to approach it differently or saved the video for when his other friends were available.
@@user-yr9lt7dz8kI wonder if it is a demonic spirit of some sort. Because whenever our church is mentioned it feels like some people just snap and loose their cool.
You're going to have to define for me what constitutes "mainstream Christianity" because based on a large variety of news reports I have seen in recent years, what you call mainstream Christianity is having a serious identity crisis. Examples? Many Christian churches are divided on issues such as gay clergy, female clergy, the Word of Faith movement and more recently, the claim that Donald Trump's presidency was prophesied in the Old Testament as well as by a number of modern Christians.
48:15 it’s our Heavenly Father’s plan, for which Jesus volunteered to be Redeemer. Satan didn’t have a “plan” per se. His proposal was a hijacking or twisting of Heavenly Father’s purposes and wanting to take credit for the alleged success.
11:20 bro hosts a Latter Day Saint podcast and didn’t have the immediate answer of “1890” off the top of his head. I’ve known that and had that answer to give people since I was like 12 😭
@@b.kimhumphreys6662 Well then you must not have read much of Parley P Pratt, who Glenn Larson called the direct inspiration for Battlestar Galactica. It is also found in the writings of BH Roberts, John Witdsoe, and Henry Eyring.
I was a teen when this was around living in Adelaide. The Sydney temple was in planning and construction pro ess and hitting obstacles, of course, withno doubt this 'movie adding fuel to the fire. The Sydney temple opened in 1984. I remember going out tracking with sister missionaries and this always came up. At church was told to steer away and I know it affected some older members and newer converts. It might be funny to laugh about, cause it's so bad however it was so bad for newer members, thank goodness that plan allows avenues for everyone to come back.
I would have liked to see more candid answer's to Cody's questions, even if there is a caveat with the explanations. (ex. planets without number, as man is god once was, eternal progression, McConkie's walked-back mormon doctrine ideas, etc...)
Carbon, I love your show, but I feel like you could have come to this with better responses to your friend on some of the things that came up in the video. Don't skate around the answers. Give it to people straight. Our gospel is beautiful and amazing. Let's give straight answers to people on everything. If you're going to debunk a video, which I love when you guys do, please come a little bit more prepared to do so. I still love your work, but I think you could have done better with this instead of laughing some of it off. This video is filled with half truths that twist the information in our teachings. Love you guys! ❤
I served in the California Sacramento Mission 95-97. A friend of Eddie decker had a church in Sacramento. He would tell us missionaries that if we leave the church then we would get a steak dinner and 1st class flight home. My mission President got plenty of calls from these idiots. A load of garbage but watching the this debunking was awesome.
I remember seeing this video when I was a kid trying to search mormon stuff on youtube and getting so angry at how bad they were showing the church I love. I have found Ward Radio and binge watched so much of you guys actually fighting back and it makes me smile wide when I see anti material now. It is a fulfilment of prophecy.
Cardon, if you read Joseph Smiths words on abolishinists, he was opposed to their divisive activism. He said they would lead this country to civil war with their attacks against people of the south. He also felt that the personal insulting attacks from the slave owners would lead to civil war by their unkind divisiveness. He wanted to liberate the slaves with compensation to both sides, selling federal lands to give recompense to both sides. Joseph criticized abolishinists. He would not enjoy being lumped in with them. Josephs words against divisive activists on both sides proved to be prophetic as we did end up in civil war. Just wanted to clarify by somthing I read in the Joseph Smith papers. He believed no one should be a slave and the Constitution should restored to true principles of liberty.
The funny thing is that the most kringe thing isnt the video, it is that certain person who watches it and comments, "Yeah, I was a former Mormon and that is exactly what they believe." It is absolute madness how suceptible and primitive people view our religion.
It’s funny how falsehoods lead to curiosity that can even lead to someone investigating the church. On my mission, there was a rumor that parents would tell their children that Mormons would carry kids away in their bags. We even had to stop using backpacks because of the rumor. One day, a lady stops us to ask if the rumor was true (half jokingly), which lead to…well what do you do? A month later her whole family was getting baptized and a year later her son left on his own mission. Keep the weird stories coming, haha.
When that film 1st came out, there were approximately 5 - 6 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Today, there are over 17 million. Though the Church is not growing as fast as it did in the 1980s and 1990s, it still continues to grow. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.
Spencer Kimball does talk about Heavenly Father having us help Him make worlds "Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000." 1975, The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood
Jason, thank you for researching that potent quote! I'm copying and saving that. Sad that we likely won't hear such bold and awe-inspiring declarations like this anymore (instead we hear suggestions for adopting Catholic traditions like Advent into our practice).
No scripture that talks about God having a Earthly birth? Didn't Christ say that he only did what his father had done and he was following his example. Joseph also talked about heavenly father being a Christ to a world somewhere.
I remeber thinking this was a big deal when I was younger and was afraid it would shake my faith like it reportedly had others. Watching it now just makes me laugh.
case in point, when that video came out in the 1980s, the Church had about 5 - 6 million members. The Church continues to grow, though at a much slower rate, but today the Church has over 17 million members. Also, the the 1980s, the Church had about 35,000 full-time missionaries. Today, the Church has approximately 72,000 young missionaries. If we include senior and service missionaries, the Church has alittle over 100,000 missionaries. “The standard of truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” Joseph Smith 1842
Yes @shireecox122, the makers of this ANTI LDS film need to update their film, those paid ministers are not in the Temple films today. Even when these paid ministers were on the temple films, do the ANTIs know what religion or denomination these so-called ministers were from. No, because their religion nor denomination, nor affiliation was ever mentioned. For all we know, the ministers could have been from the cult down the street. It was a representation of man's teaching mingled with scripture. It could also represent someone who has great influence over people (celebrities, politicians, etc.) leading others unto the wrong path and away from God.
No! Joseph Smith never ever claimed to be a decent of Jesus Christ. He is a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, just like many of us are. We do not believe that at all. Nor do we believe, that Jesus was married to Mary, Mary, or Martha. This has never been taught, or written in our doctrines or our scriptures. Wow! This Decker guy is really trying too hard.
At time 1:08:40 the narrator says that we will stand in final judgement before Joseph Smith, the Mormon Jesus and Elohim. Where does this idea come from? I can not find any sources that comment on this.
I believe it came from Brigham Young Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.... I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy...he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.... It is his mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption.[1]
Same. So ridiculous how peeps fell away from this. I'm convinced that people (generally) who go inactive, almost 'want' and look for ways to go inactive.
Moses 1:33-35, 7:29-31 God has created worlds without number with the intent to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. D&C 76:24 The inhabitants of these worlds are begotten sons and daughters of God. Abraham 3:2 Kolob is the star nearest the throne of God. We absolutely have a cosmic faith and I think it is awesome.
Then accept that. I had two missionaries’ at my door tell me that the concept of “Kolob” comes from “early Jewish teachings” and not a concept unique to your religion. As a devout Jew, that is nonsense.
@58:00 Orson Pratt believed that Jesus was married to multiple wives and wrote about suspected metaphors revealing evidence in the bible. The idea that Jesus was married and had a wife at least, Mary Magdalene, while not church doctrine, is far more acceptable to believe than in say, Catholicism. Unmarried Jesus makes little sense, by the way, historically.
xirtus, I liked your comment. I can only guess at what in Catholicism is harder to believe than Mary Magdalene being Jesus Christ's wife. Is it the immaculate conception? Is it the Creedal descriptions of His nature? Is it Jesus thinking we literally eat His body and literally drink His blood?
@@Hamann9631 Catholicism reads John 6 literally so believe the sacrament becomes through consecration by the priest the literal body and blood of Christ (yet retaining the appearance of bread and wine). It took Aristotle by way of Aquinas to make sense of it.
Jesus and Mary Magdalene was one of the bizarre premises of The DaVinci Code. No biblical or reliable extrabiblical evidence for that or for Jesus being married. Paul said it was better not to marry, so "eunuchs for the kingdom of God" by choice was not uncommon.
Arguing that Jesus not being married is nonsensical historically is a strange take being that it's hard to imagine anything that would seem historically less sensical than a man born of a virgin with the power to perform miracles and atone for the sins of the world for eternity by his blood. The entire purpose of the narrative is to show that this one man and his life was anything but sensical or ordinary the most extraordinary person to ever live.
The beginning is like the origin story of Superman, except they are telling it starting a generation back. Wasn’t Superman’s Father named “El”? The best lies are very twisted bits of truth. Because the film maker person knew things, they had the ability to be able to lie about it really well. What we really need is Jordan B. Peterson to read our doctrine. He has a gift of explaining religious teachings through philosophy and stories. Another thing… none of this stuff is “Mormon”. It all comes from the ancient Jewish faith. And even C.S. Lewis (who was Anglican) came to the same conclusions of Joseph Smith. J.S. Just took his conclusions full circle.
A lot of the he planetary/progression questions are in the hymn "O My Father". Pretty simply, we do believe most of these minus the yhousands of Heavenly Mothers 😂😅 she is only ever mentioned as singular.
I would say The God Makers and its sequel has forced me to view almost every argument made against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a degree of skepticism. This has proved even more so when, back in July of 2020, Ed Decker appeared on John Dehlin's Mormon Stories podcast. On the podcast, Dehlin, who has repeatedly claimed he has never lied or been dishonest in his critiques of the Church, more or less gave Decker a pass for his attacks of Mormonism. True, Dehlin did criticize some of Decker's claims, such as the weird way Decker portrayed Mormonism in the first God Makers film, as well as Decker's claims against Gordon B. Hinckley in the second God Makers film. However, Dehlin ignored nearly all of Decker's other dishonest attacks on Mormonism, and by the end of the interview had praised Decker many times for his efforts against the Church. What I find particularly galling is how many of Dehlin's followers showered Decker with praise within the comments section of the videos. One comment saying, "I really enjoyed hearing Ed’s side of the story. I had always heard unkind things about him growing up in the LDS church. Thank you Ed for being so bold and being a pioneer of the truth!" Another comment said, "Ed, you are awesome! Kudos to you and all you have done to spread the truth of Mormonism." But hands down, the comment which most epitomizes those who attack Mormonism is as follows. "Ed Decker is a real-live person, with feelings and convictions no different than any other. After hearing him speak, I feel he did everything “Anti-Mormon” out of love for humans." There it is folks! It may only be in the opinion of one person, but in my view that summarizes all attacks on Mormonism. Whether the attacks are true or not, they are done "out of love for humans." Decker, Dehlin and those who attack the Church have more or less thrown truth out of the window. To them, truth is whatever they say it is, and you don’t have to take my word for it. Those who attack the Church are admitting it.
I watched that episode of Mormon Stories. John Dehlin did a very good job of putting Ed Decker under pressure...particularly over the content of the OTHER Godmakers video, i.e. Godmakers 2, released in 1992. This showed John's integrity. Decker was also heavily criticised by the Tanners. I remember receiving an edition of the Tanners' newsletter, which closely examined Decker's claims in the 1992 film and took them apart.
@@Themanyfacesofego Dehlin may not be Decker’s biggest fan, but he still let Decker off the hook a few times. Not only that, the comments posted online regarding the interview, with the vast majority of people coming to Decker’s defense, did nothing to give Mormon Stories any credibility.
@@clarklarsen1973 Thanks. Could you give any examples from the interview where John could have done better? At what stage could he have really delivered decisive blows? I felt he did really well, and it seemed that Decker actually regretted making the video.
@@Themanyfacesofego In the four or so hours that John Dehlin interviewed Ed Decker, not once was anything said about the claim Decker made in The God Makers that blood atonement was still going on the Church. Not once did Dehlin ask Decker about the claims he has made that the LDS Church has a replica of the Oval Office inside the Washington DC temple for the day when the Mormons will supposedly take over America. Not only that, there were large segments of the God Makers II which Dehlin said nothing about. The claim Decker made that the BYU Jerusalem Center was built in order to do missionary work among the Jews, because, as is stated in the God Makers II, the Mormons claim to be the real Jews. Dehlin said nothing about Decker flying to Jerusalem and holding a press conference in which he made all sorts of untrue allegations against the Church and the Center. Finally, Dehlin said nothing to Decker about Lillian Chynoweth, who was, at one time a member of Ervil LeBaron's off shoot group. The God Makers II film show an interview Chynoweth did, but then the film states that she died soon after the interview. The film, however, does not state that Chynoweth died by suicide. As quoted by the Tanners, "[t]his statement certainly suggests to all those who see the video, that Lillian Chynoweth was murdered in cold blood. What the producers of The God Makers II fail to tell the viewer is that Lillian took her own life." Dehlin could have easily discussed this with Decker, but it wasn't mentioned, unless I missed a part of the interview. Finally, at the end of the final video, Dehlin casually dismisses the criticism leveled against Decker by groups and individuals outside of the LDS Church to Decker's work. Dehlin gives Decker the opportunity to basically state that those oppose light are those who support darkness. In a nutshell, Dehlin clearly demonstrates that Decker and his work can best be summed up as "The ends justify the means," or that 1% of the truth has the same value as 100% of the truth, at least in their camp it that's the case.
In our pre-earth life when we lived with Heavenly Father, there was an event we attended where the plan for our progression was presented. The plan was Heavenly Father’s and He asked who would go be our savior. Christ did volunteer to become our savior and give all the glory to our Heavenly Father. That’s when Lucifer spoke up and said he had a different plan than the Father’s. Lucifer wanted the ultimate control over all mankind and to force them to always be obedient. He claimed that he could save everyone with his plan. On top of that, he wanted all the glory-to supplant himself as God instead of Heavenly Father. His plan was completely sinister. He had no intentions of saving anyone. He couldn’t. He would not have been able to take away our freedom to choose. That was impossible. God the Father couldn’t do it either. If we would have done so, he would have ceased to be God. So, Lucifer’s plan was a complete lie. He only wanted one thing-to make himself God. Heavenly Father knew this and rejected Lucifer’s counterfeit of a plan.
I saw the cartoon several years ago. My . take is like your guest said that it was made to make Mormons as a strange religion . As member of the church I found it quite funny. film ,and wrong on some things. I 'm surprised that people fell for it and left.
@@WARDRADIO Why not just do it again with more support? Isn't the whole point of this type of video to disprove or debunk and not to say "ah well not really" "I don't think so" and just not answer questions?
Cool episode Cardon! I had a great laugh watching that footage too. It also reminded me of how much knowledge we have been given about who we are and God, thanks to Joseph Smith restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Early Mormon leaders said God and Jesus were polygamists as a way to justify Mormon polygamist teachings. Top leaders used the examples of the polygamy of God the Father and Jesus Christ in defense of it and these teachings on God and Jesus' polygamy were widely accepted among Latter-day Saints by the late 1850s.[27][28][22]: 84 In 1853, Jedediah M. Grant-who later become a member of the First Presidency-stated that the top reason behind the persecution of Christ and his disciples was due to their practice of polygamy.[29][27] Two months later, apostle Orson Pratt taught in a church periodical that "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives," and that after her death, Mary (the mother of Jesus) may have become another eternal polygamous wife of God.[30] He also stated that Christ had multiple wives-Mary of Bethany, Martha, and Mary Magdalene-as further evidence in defense of polygamy.[31][27] In the next two years the apostle Orson Hyde also stated during two general conference addresses that Jesus practiced polygamy[32][27] and repeated this in an 1857 address.[33]
He said no to the racist part but that was in the Book of Mormon so is likely the most true of the whole cartoon if you believe the church that is, the other stuff was taught outside the Book of Mormon which they say is the most true book on earth.
@lukev483 it does. The video said members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe that only white people accepted Jesus in the premortal life. The Book of Mormon does not say that in any way. It does have language similar to what you mentioned. I'm not a versed apologist or fact checker. That wording is not my favorite thing in the book but it doesn't change my testimony
There were many moments that I cringed more at Cardon’s explanation/skirting around answers then I did at the film. The film is still just solid cringe though…
I think the context is missing. Cardon was speaking to how we’re taught. We don’t sit in church and hear weekly talks and chant about our ascension to Kolob, or becoming “gods” (little g) or even polygamy. We aren’t missionaries for the anti-church so how would we know exactly what they are saying in some instances? Many “older” disaffected saints claim teaching these things was normal, but many of us have the benefit of older converts parents, grand parents and in my case great greats from the 1830’s who know better and left great diaries and what not. I’m often told I’ll become a god, but it’s not something that has come up more than 1 or two times in passing while in church, during my nearly five decades in it. Funny that…
@@lukev483, All of the problems with the church historically and contemporary have been human. People are inherently flawed, no organization on earth is going to be perfect. I'm glad I'm a member of the church, in spite of any issues, it is the true church of Jesus Christ.
@@OverRUclips-she won’t find this kind of stuff in church only spoke about in priesthood meeting or when Mormons meet together outside of church or the very indoctrinated families when having meals ect 😅 but the Mormons believe all the stuff in the cartoon
luv, I suspect this film was just a clear and easy exit ramp and that your sister was already disengaging long before this gave the excuse. Most people leave the Church for many reasons before they make it final and then point to the CES Letter or movies like The Godmakers. Here's praying for her.
PipeDaddy907, thou shalt not bear false witness! I have only been to one meeting of the high priests group; however, I know the church's teachings. This is not a normal high priest group meeting (unless you are talking about an entire ward so out of line it needs ex-communication.
@@lukev483 In a class of any religion, that religions' teachings are taught. So, I know what goes on those classes by knowing what that religion teaches.
56:00 There is no truth to that claim(by The Temple God Makers video). Cardon is correct in this video. Adam and Eve are complete different beings from Father in Heaven and Mother in Heaven according to The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mary was a virgin.
43:42 Symbolic component? If we go by the LDS book it clearly states that it is a star or planet. I see where you want to say that it may be symbolic, but you need more evidence to point to that conclusion.
I heard about the film as a kid but never watched because my seminary teacher advised against watching anti content. I’m glad that I’ve seen it now when I’m older and understand the rhetorical tricks used to twist things against people.
Cwic Media did an episode on Kolob. The passage is about the organization of the hierarchy of Heaven. Kolob is nearest to Gods throne and gives it's light to the "Great Ones" which pass it to us. Abraham is called one of the Great ones later in the chapter. Kolob is Jesus and He gives the prophets Gods light to pass to us. The Throne of God is in His Temple, in the Holy of Holies. Jesus is the One nearest to the Throne making Hime the high priest of God. The passage is in a vision and shouldn't be read literally.
Yes, many Mormons believed black people were fence sitters in the pre existence. And the Curse of Cain didn't come from the south. Mormons got it from the Book of Moses chapter 7. 22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were ablack, and had not place among them. Carson's pants are on fire.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder what Cardon really knows vs what he is supposed to know and teach. It's a missionary mindset. There's cognitive dissonance at play, and I know many ex-mishies who resent the church's acknowledging things like Fanny Alger and Joseph's hat and stone because they were drilled on combatting those charges. The Church has become more honest, but kryptonite like blacks in the preexistence they won't address head-on, even when it's there in print.
@@g.p.ryecroft he also said 50 to 100 people were killed at Mountain Meadows. The number is over 100 but that's not what bothered me. Children. Children were killed. Not just people. Men, women, and children.
@@aspenmgy I agree that Cardon underplayed that, offering excuses like suspected Wildcatters were in the wagon train. How does that excuse killing anybody, let alone innocent women and children? Mountain Meadows needs to be condemned without excuse or explanation.
I have heard alot of the stuff in the cartoon from Church people but, not like it potrays. More like Cardin explains it. Thing is that is what got me in. it just made so much sense to me. I never could understand the idea of God being all alone. But, dont rely on this cartoon go talk to missionaries cause this is twisting it up to make us look bad. if you want to understand a religion don't talk to it's enemies
@@lukev483 Luke you are one of the most dishonest people on here. In some comments you say you are a "card carrying member". In other comments you say you don't believe in God. You are almost as dishonest as this cartoon ;-)
If you talk to disgruntled coworkers you probably won't get good information. One thing I don't like about the cartoon is it says The Church thinks Black people are ones that couldn't make up their mind winch side the was on. we don't think that and people will watch this cartoon and think we do
I watched the cartoon on RUclips when I was in 5th grade. The Holy Ghost told me the following:
"Many things they are saying are correct things, but told in the wrong way. Meaning, they are mocking the things of God to make Him look like the bad guy, while at the same time denying His Power and Authority, causing these wicked men who produced this to follow the false gods of Babylon."
That is spot on how I feel about it. I saw it for the first time about a year ago though, and was looking at it through a more analytical lens as adults tend to do. It sounds like you were very spiritually in tune at a young age.
Yes I been taught these theories not the sex and racists crap they pull out out of their poop, but it was called theory not gospel, I 24 have came up with theoreis half of them on my own but they construed it, what viscose lies they said,
In other words every said was true lol cults will desperately try to justify their insane doctrine
It's the difference between "For a woman to get pregnant, she must have sexual relations with a man" and "To get bred, a woman needs to be humped by daddy". It's the same true message, but with two very different portrayals.
The coping is depressing on y’all’s part.
I met a family who joined the church because they saw the God Makers and the week after saw some missionaries on the street and told them they had just seen it... they asked the missionaries all the questions and joined the church... it is also important to know that the Council of Christians and Jews pronounced a statement against the movie for it lies and misrepresentation.
Missionaries told me they loved it when the God Makers was making the rounds in their area because they would get a surge of investigators. Movie backfired bigtime!
This is the worst he man episode
You already won the comment section
By the power of GraySkull.
@paulblack1799 🤣🤣🤣🤣
What’s going on?
😂
Saw this on my mission when it was being shown in other Protestant/Evangelical churches as a "learning tool' to teach what Mormons "really believe". At first, I was laughing at the way the film was made. I haven't seen it for almost 40 years, but it seems like it starts out with a flyover shot of the Washington D.C. Temple with the tenor of the film being very dark. Almost like the Temple was a dark cave of mystery, and because they were good Christians, they were going to reveal the secrets and help their neighbors out of this anti-biblical, anti-Christian cult. Towards the middle and the end, I was very upset. It had, in my perception, a very dark feeling to it. But I think that was purposeful, but many misunderstood the dark feeling as a confirmation to the material rather than the spiritual darkness cast due to the evil lies that were told counter the restored truth.
For me... the more they talk crap the more I dig my heels in💪😅. Honestly, it's strengthening for some. Sadly for others, it's their spiritual demise. What I don't understand though... is why people don't see logic that a religion teaching hate toward other religions might not be what God would do. I mean the evil that should be focused on are the things of the world that are in our face, Obvious evil. Pastors don't know the Bible when they're teaching hate and division
When I was a missionary I had a Catholic guy come to me (we were teaching his wife) because someone was bashing his faith and gave him an anti-Catholic pamphlet. He was having a little bit of a faith crisis because of that and felt comfortable coming to us, and I explained to him that the bad feelings he was having in that moment were coming from the fact that the man who approached him wasn't building him up but tearing down his faith. Anti material in general is not uplifting and does not invite the spirit, and the bad feelings you get from reading that material says more about the material itself and the people who gave it to you than the faith it is attacking.
I once met one of the animators (or someone who claimed to be one), and he couldn't stop apologizing. apparently the crew who did the actual animation stuff were largely jewish, and were surprised to learn what they were actually working on.
Dude! You have to tell us more! Reach out on the website!
@@WARDRADIO He's a friend from my mission days, and we've stayed in touch over the years. I asked him if he would like to chat with ya'll, or maybe if I could relay his story, but he would like to remain private. But I will say, I don't know if his story is . . . entirely accurate. He's . . . a 'colorful' character who views himself as a druidic-catholic-jew, and who regularly participates in neo-pagan rituals which involve shall we say . . . less then mentally stabilizing substances?
But he has had a veeery interesting life. I'd put the odds of this being him actually having done it, rather then a false memory from some mushroom trip, at about a 50-50 . . . So . . . yeah lol
If I can convince him to let me do a write up and shoot it over, I'll reach out :)
It was farmed out to Asian animators much like “Funimation” cartoons from the 80s.
@@a.r.hollowayauthor7210 50-50 chance? I mean if he could provide evidence that percentage would go up but with just him talking about it are we even sure it is near 50?
Not extraterrestrial visitors. ExtraCELESTIAL visitors!
No... they would be extraterrestrial.
i see what you did there lol
i see what you did there lol
The angels aren’t extraterrestrial in the sense that they come from another planet. They are actually either pre-existent spirits awaiting birth on earth, or ones that have already lived on the earth. The point is that they belong to this earth, but presumably can visit heaven. Where is heaven? It may not even be meaningful to talk about its place, if it involves another dimension. The point is that, doctrinally, it’s unknown.
Thank you for your reply. I understand, I was just doing a silly play on words.@@towardcivicliteracy
This came out my senior year in high school (southern California). A friend brought it over with a youth pastor in an effort to (1) dissuade another friend from being baptized and (2) convert me. I laughed my butt off through the whole thing. They asked if I was afraid of the truth and I said, "I hope you play this thing forever; it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Whoever sees it will look for us just to ask what we actually believe." They weren't amused. That friend never joined but several others did.
I seem to recall an intro where people were meeting with a lawyer hoping to build a case against the LDS church, and this was part of their evidence. At the end they were dissuaded, told, "they're just too powerful and secretive." Perhaps I'm misremembering.
@@JamesWrightLBC you've got it right, although the "lawyer" was some rando Decker found.
Epic!
Exactly! It is the most blatant slander of the church! It does break my heart though of how people will not be Christlike and seek to destroy in the name of God. That’s why I love how the Church says we are ALL children of god! Because we all are in this world together and should act like it.
So many of the things my my protestant friends said to me in the 90's about being a mormon suddenly make sense. I always wondered where they got these insane ideas. I eventually just started telling them all I was going to build the star wars universe after I died.
Starbase Kolob? Man that sounds cool.
Maybe Elon can get behind this name?
@@dannyrocket77 Elons a sleeper mormon. He'd convert if he can only stop dating weird women.
This movie if you can call it that was played at my HS in the 80's shortly after I joined the church at 14. I went throw hell via my fellow classmates because of this stupid film. Later right after my mission I saw it again in my home town at the Baptist church. I was invited by the lieing paster to come speak about my mission. I arrived with my father to this church and in the forayer there was a large table full of anti Mormon literature. I went into the chapel, sat and watched this stupid film and listened to Ed Decker himself (man behind the film and much more evil). The paster never gave me a formal opportunity to speak, seems the paster was really good at lieing. I stood up anyways and bore witness of the truthfulness of Christ gospel and his church, and Joseph Smith. As I was ending my testimony a few people started singing to drown me out. One thing I learned is that I never want to be a Baptist as people from this church are rude just as they are in Utah where I served my mission, and sense have had run ins with them. I feel sad for these people as they are presenting a bad example of being Christ like. Even though I am well versed in anti Mormon talking points I prefer to simply bare the truths of the gospel of Christ versus talking about anti Mormon crap, devil crap. Sorry it saddens me that people can so easily be deceived, and be dragged to hell by the chains of satan.
I take my hat off to you. You walked into the lions den and left with the spirit of God at your back. Who knows you may have planted a seed. I always say, we sow seeds everywhere and let the Lord do the rest. I have always believed that you don't get into arguments or contentions, even some so-called debates aren't worth it. You spoke your testimony, stated truth and facts. It's what we are called to do. Thanks for your example ❤
Wow! You and your Father had a lot of courage to do that...
I'm so proud & impressed with your willingness to still bear truth of what you know to be true. In some ways it's casting pearls before swine, but hopefully others could see how shamefully you were treated and parted ways with that hateful bunch. Can you imagine inviting someone from another faith to speak to your congregation and then setting them up like that?!? Someday the tables will be turned and you can show them what true Christlike grace should should look like. ❤❤❤
You are awesome for staying strong! Thank you for your testimony.
You’re amazing. Thanks for sharing
Wow thank you all for responding with such love. Man I love love Zions people. Christ is freaking amazing.
Holy cow just answer the man’s questions simply and honestly. This was so frustrating to watch, I wish Brad was there to clarify our doctrine for the nonmember watching this horrible movie. I feel like all of the answers were confusing and just danced around the doctrines.
Yeah he should always invite more of our theological studiers of our gospel for these, I actually new some of those theories and could see the bastardization of them and the up mad up lies of theories, easy, but I just 24 year old, missionary and I kinda feel like, I was just well you debunked him yes but ah let's talk about the iconic theories
yeah was alaways quick to dismiss the points of the video without explaining the real doctrine or history behind the videos misrepresentation... should have watched it in advance and had explanations and answers for all the points
Exactly he just avoided all the questions.
@@scottishwarrior3547 I don't even really see how he debunked most of it
Mark Twain’s “All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the ‘elect’ have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it" have actually helped spread the message.
How helpful was Twain calling the Book of Mormon "chloroform in print"? Twain was no friend of Mormonism or of Christianity. His book Letters from the Earth really captures his anti-Christian notions.
It feels like for every 3 seconds of film that was watched there was 20 min of talking. It made it hard to maintain interest. That being said, the cartoon was filled with a massive amount of falsehoods. It was comical really.
Thanks Ward Radio for making this video, keep em coming!
Could you dive more into the falsehoods? maybe point to the things that were actually true? I've heard mormons saying that it was true just apparently not told the right way.
I met Granny Geer's brother on my mission , part of which was in Kansas. His name was Lenzie Crum, I believe. He told me that she didn't like the church and she left as soon as she could. She wrote an anti-Mormon book that was mentioned here at the 14 minute mark, and her brother showed it to me. Lenzie told me that the book was hogwash. Funny thing was, was that after his sealed wife passed away, he married a non member who believed every part of the book his sister wrote. Made for an interesting night being fed dinner by these two people.
"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." - Lorenzo Snow. Easiest way to sum up our idea of eternal progression.
@latterdaysaint not to mention that it can be found in what little first temple related scriptures we have. In one of the books of Enoch(forgive my ignorance of which) Enoch ascends through the several levels of heaven, giving a code word to the guardians so they will allow his passage, then being robed in the holy garments, and then finally being sat upon the very throne of God, and taking upon him his name. Likewise in ancient Israel the king would sit upon his throne during his coronation and wear the name of God upon his head.
A likely reason general Christianity views Mormonism as not completely Christian.
@rodneyjamesmcguire because we believe as the ancient Israelites and ancient Christians believed? In Theosis? The Greek Orthodox church today still believes in Theosis. I also believe they can't get over the whole God has a glorified body, Jesus does as well, but he doesn't share a body with God, the holy spirit also is its own entity, and we believe in a mother in Heaven.
@rodneyjamesmcguire then general Christianity is wrong.
@@MichaelGMoney Forgive me for my ingnorance but where can I locate The Book of Enoch. Is it part of the Apocrypha?
I thought it was funny/sad to see RUclips channels passing it off as something the Church made then tried to hide.
When I saw it in 1988 I could tell that they were intentionally shoehorning this eerie vibe into it.
Kolob wasn't Joseph Smith's idea. It was part of Abraham's astronomy. It really is a metaphor for Jesus: it is closest to the throne of God; it governs all others; first in creation; gives light unto everything else...
Ummmmm I've read Genesis lol and Abraham never mentions kolob lollll
@@GershomDeol Abraham from the book of Abraham, my guy. Plus my comment was correcting Cardon who explained Kolob as Joseph Smith’s idea.
@@TheMightyJor book of Abraham was a fraudulent text . Joseph Smith made up the translation and said he got it from reformed Egyptian scrolls lol egyptologists say there is no such thing as reformed Egyptian and that the actual scroll Smith translated from has nothing to do with bible or Abraham , it actually contains funeral ceremonies of the dead in regards to Egyptian customs, nothing to do with Abraham. Joseph Smith made up a lot of things like book or Mormon too
@@TheMightyJor are you a Mormon ? Sorry I'm confused 😂.
@@TheMightyJorSo you agree ”Kolob” isn’t referenced in any non-LDS source? It’s frustrating as a Jew to be told “Well, Kolob comes from ancient Jewish texts” when indeed it does not.
My zone leaders were shown this while on my mission. I'm glad it wasn't me. I'm sure the person that showed it would have been insulted by my uncontrollable laughter. This was awesome.
I remember The Godmakers all too well because it came out in 1982 the year I started my mission in southern California in July 1982. It had a very negative reputation. My mission president told to stay away from it. I watched The God Makers about a year ago, it is so a pathetically silly joke and was poorly done. I didn't even watch it all the way through before losing interest in it.
My brother was offered something around 200,000 dollars to leave his mission and go to work for The Godmakers peeps while serving in San Diego! It was around 1980. He really found his testimony during that time and later went to the Manti pageant every year for a long time to stop these antis lies that would pull young people away from the church. He helped many members understand the truth. I love my brother! Antis got to know him well and tried to steer clear of him, because of his knowledge of the truths to their lies!
If he was a true Mormon he would have accepted it and gave 10% of it to the church that’s 20 grand 😅
@@James.chalmers that’s pretty funny!
I’m in my 50’s and this is the first time seeing this absolutely ridiculous film. The reason I’ve never watched it is, because my mission president said it wasn’t worth our time. He was 100% right. I said it already, and I’ll say it again, “It’s absolutely ridiculous!”
The Mountain Meadows Massacre is probably the biggest stain on our church. I know people who’s great, great grandfather’s were involved. And still to this day the family is mad at the church for the harsh punishment they received, by Brigham Young, for doing what they did, including blaming it on the Indians. It’s still a very touchy subject.
I watched this when I was like 16 back in 2007. I was already on the rocks with the church, I remember thinking it was really out there and stupid that it couldn’t be accurate. 😂
It pretty accurate
One day on my mission we ran into a guy that wanted to argue with us though after the conversation we had responded to every of his attacks and it left him with all he could say was "I want to see the God Makers"
Am I wrong as interpreting what you're saying as not having so much an issue with what is said as much as how it's said? It seems you're usually saying something along the lines of "yes that's technically correct but said in a way that seems to mock it"
No you are not wrong that's exactly how this video turned out. Do your own research and find out for yourself. God bless
What better way to demonstrate that we are not afraid of anti-Mormon claims such as these than to show them openly to your non-LDS friend and broadcast it for the world to watch.
17:30: Holy crap, this woman in the video is my relative.
So, the widow she's referring to who was married to John Doyle Lee was Abigail Shaeffer Woolsey. Lee was originally married first to one of her daughters, and then plural married to Abigail and other daughters. Abigail died on the journey west and was buried next to the Sweetwater River.
My ancestor was Abigail's son Thomas, who was in Company E of the Mormon Battalion.
Kwaku really needed to be on this episode. 😂
Cardon you're trying really hard not to give it straight to him. Yes God has a physical but glorified body (we don't know what that's like exactly but we would say Jesus resurrected with that same type of body and some of us in the resurrection will eventually obtain that same type of body too.)
Yes God dwells in a physical place near a star called Kolob.
We don't know where that is or if it's even accessible through regular space travel, but that is what is said in our scriptures.
I agree, I feel like Cardon is acting so confused when it's pretty obvious where they are getting a lot of this stuff. Like the "Elohim origin story" is obviously their extrapolation of the Lorenzo Snow couplet: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Not to say that what they are stating is doctrine (which they are trying to portray it as)...officially we just don't know for sure. But even church leaders in the past have tried to make their own conclusions about the ramifications of our doctrine.
I'm not trying to give the creators of this thing any credit btw. Everything is presented in very bad faith and they are doing an expert job of mixing truth and lies and making it all come across super weird and creepy with the animation and music.
Bible never says anything about kolob lol 😂 that's cultish bro
@@GershomDeolWhat’s worse is some claim “Kolob” comes from my faith (Jew) it does not!
When John Dehlin had Ed Decker on his podcast, he made Ed watch it. Dehlin was praising Ed like a fly 'round dog poop and Ed Decker seemed embarrassed at Dehlin's brown-nosing of him and of the cartoon...Decker seemed embarrassed by the cartoon, in watching it in 2020 or around that time of the podcast. It is a massive knee-jerk reaction of the church and an angry ex-member
The way they've taken some of the most beautiful pieces of doctrine that we believe and twisted it into something ridiculous is disgusting! They heard "we are all children of God" and took "endless celestial sex."
cult gonna cult
Man, Ed Decker really makes our church seem a lot less boring. If sacrament meeting were anything like this, any and all less actives would return in droves. I still want my own planet, dude. I'd be happy to report to Starbase Kolob.
I heard about the godmakers on my mission... We were teaching a person and warned them that now they started to talk with us, anti literature will be presented to them. They said and I quote... My church doesnt do that! I told them to ask there leaders if they have the movie. We made a deal she comes to our church and we would go to hers. As we walked into her church her leader walked right up to her and handed her the movie. I literally turned around and pointed in her face and laugh saying i told you so... She acted sheepishly and shuned away. It was classic
Cody wanted to know if Jesus was in the picture from the beginning. Of course he was!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That's an argument for the Trinity, which you don't believe in.
@@thomasfischer9259 no, it’s not. ✌️
Wow! I knew it was a bad take, but seriously! The only times they stopped telling half truths was when they were telling complete lies.
34:36 what about "as man now is, God once was, as God now is, man may become." Meaning, God was born and gained a body, and was perfected and became a God. Carden trying to talk his way around it is so funny. It is totally accurate.
Except the way they portray it is not accurate. They make it sound like God was born a God to some extraterrestrial Godly parents and grew up to be God Eternal. Not accurate at all. Total misrepresentation of mixed half truths and lies.
Wow even Cardon made so many mistakes in his attempt to correct the cartoon
I am so surprised…
Cardon’s squirming around trying to explain polygamy 😂😂😂
His explanation isn't accurate. Polygamy wasn't to take care of widows.
Yeah, I wished Cardon was a little more candid. He kept reverting to mishie mode and treating Cody like a golden investigator. I kept waiting for him to pull out the flip chart and committment cards!.
Cardon squirming at nearly every question 😂 and says wayy to much irrelevant info, then the guest asks plainly the original question again.
Yes he should just own it. We still believe in polygamy in Heaven. It's been a thing about Mormonism that we have to come to terms with. I don't think he's really thought that hard about it.
@@loisdanes176 I didn't know the LDS church still believed in polygamy in heaven! Where did you hear of this?
This made me want to binge watch the original Battle Star Galactica tv show again…
I might add Ed Decker was excommunicated for adulatory and he was so mad he went after the church. At one point he tried to come back to the church but was not allowed and even got madder. He fought against the church through the rest of his life.
Why was he not allowed back if he wanted to come back?
@kelloggscuts1820 probably for numerous counts of being an arsehole.
@kelloggscuts1820 I don't know Deckers' story. But as a person who was disfellowshipped, it takes a lot to get back in full fellowship. I can imagine it would be harder and take a lot more if you were excommunicated. And if he wasn't willing to put in the work, they wouldn't just let him back.
That's my guess anyway.
It took my husband almost 10 years to get refellowshipped because of his stubborn nature and his hesitancy to follow authority. It takes a lot of humility to get back in good standing
Many such cases
@@lukev483 Actually, Jesus told her to go and sin no more. Jesus did not forgive her. A person who has been excommunicated needs to repent. It is possible he was obviously not sorry.
I think you were misunderstanding a lot of Cody's questions unfortunately.
It really did feel like they were talking past each other...kinda hard to listen to.
Cody was "miscast" here and should never have been brought onto this particular episode. Cardon needed a fellow former missionary aged 40s/50s who has experience with this film and its influence. Cardon wastes our time backtracking to address basics (e.g., Cardon explaining baptism for the dead. C'mon, Cody!).
@@g.p.ryecroft yes it seemed like Cardon really wanted someone to laugh with and make fun of it like he would have with Kwaku and the others but of course Cody has a totally different perspective. Cardon should have either tried to approach it differently or saved the video for when his other friends were available.
There's a reason why he was doing this.
The fact that’s nothing changed in mainstream Christianity in 40 years kills me.
Closed-minded closed canon dogmatic Pharisee gatekeepers never change! They have been so evil since the times of Christ.
@@user-yr9lt7dz8kI wonder if it is a demonic spirit of some sort. Because whenever our church is mentioned it feels like some people just snap and loose their cool.
You're going to have to define for me what constitutes "mainstream Christianity" because based on a large variety of news reports I have seen in recent years, what you call mainstream Christianity is having a serious identity crisis. Examples? Many Christian churches are divided on issues such as gay clergy, female clergy, the Word of Faith movement and more recently, the claim that Donald Trump's presidency was prophesied in the Old Testament as well as by a number of modern Christians.
@@user-yr9lt7dz8k You just proved Ed Decker's claim that Mormons hold other faiths in contempt. (That said, I did love your phrasing! )
40? Try 180
Cody is such a blast!! 👍😅.
He has a good head on his shoulders. He asks good questions, doesn't judge, has an open mind.
48:15 it’s our Heavenly Father’s plan, for which Jesus volunteered to be Redeemer. Satan didn’t have a “plan” per se. His proposal was a hijacking or twisting of Heavenly Father’s purposes and wanting to take credit for the alleged success.
So the mormon god is no longer a polygamist and has moved out of the Kolob System??? Better re-read the Pearl of Great Price.
Ooof. Neither of those things are in the POGP, dog. Might wanna take that up with your KoolAid vendor-- I mean, paid Pastor.
@@WARDRADIOlolololol
@@WARDRADIOWhat a comeback.
11:20 bro hosts a Latter Day Saint podcast and didn’t have the immediate answer of “1890” off the top of his head. I’ve known that and had that answer to give people since I was like 12 😭
One point about the "trillions of planets", there is a common LDS tradition that Heavenly Father has other spirit children on other planets.
Never heard of that in my 60 years.
@@b.kimhumphreys6662 Well then you must not have read much of Parley P Pratt, who Glenn Larson called the direct inspiration for Battlestar Galactica. It is also found in the writings of BH Roberts, John Witdsoe, and Henry Eyring.
@@brettmajeske3525 Wow! Good of you for pointing that out
1:00:00 interesting that an hour in Cody trusts the movie more than Cardon’s confusion.
Well know he likes some of the concepts that are true, he found Dimons in the turd
I remember going into the Graves Yard with flash LIght and my wife taking the Notes , We forgot we could go when it was open during the day time
It’s interesting how the cartoon depicts God as an old man with white hair and a long beard with a bunch of young hot blonde wives.
Ed Decker's personal fantasy coming through the video...
@@lukev483 You talk more about polygamy than any member I know of. It seems like your fantasies and Ed's fantasies are one in the same
Take a drink of soda every time the cartoon says the words "claimed" or "supposedly"
I was a teen when this was around living in Adelaide. The Sydney temple was in planning and construction pro ess and hitting obstacles, of course, withno doubt this 'movie adding fuel to the fire. The Sydney temple opened in 1984. I remember going out tracking with sister missionaries and this always came up. At church was told to steer away and I know it affected some older members and newer converts. It might be funny to laugh about, cause it's so bad however it was so bad for newer members, thank goodness that plan allows avenues for everyone to come back.
I would have liked to see more candid answer's to Cody's questions, even if there is a caveat with the explanations. (ex. planets without number, as man is god once was, eternal progression, McConkie's walked-back mormon doctrine ideas, etc...)
Carbon, I love your show, but I feel like you could have come to this with better responses to your friend on some of the things that came up in the video. Don't skate around the answers. Give it to people straight. Our gospel is beautiful and amazing. Let's give straight answers to people on everything. If you're going to debunk a video, which I love when you guys do, please come a little bit more prepared to do so. I still love your work, but I think you could have done better with this instead of laughing some of it off. This video is filled with half truths that twist the information in our teachings. Love you guys! ❤
It's the scary movie music being played in the background. Nothing else is needed to make a good thing seem bad!
It's all about the music in the video.
I served in the California Sacramento Mission 95-97. A friend of Eddie decker had a church in Sacramento. He would tell us missionaries that if we leave the church then we would get a steak dinner and 1st class flight home. My mission President got plenty of calls from these idiots. A load of garbage but watching the this debunking was awesome.
Where can I read about the 30 rules of anti’s?
I remember seeing this video when I was a kid trying to search mormon stuff on youtube and getting so angry at how bad they were showing the church I love. I have found Ward Radio and binge watched so much of you guys actually fighting back and it makes me smile wide when I see anti material now. It is a fulfilment of prophecy.
It was a tradition in my mission to show this to all the greenies.👀
Cardon, if you read Joseph Smiths words on abolishinists, he was opposed to their divisive activism. He said they would lead this country to civil war with their attacks against people of the south. He also felt that the personal insulting attacks from the slave owners would lead to civil war by their unkind divisiveness. He wanted to liberate the slaves with compensation to both sides, selling federal lands to give recompense to both sides. Joseph criticized abolishinists. He would not enjoy being lumped in with them. Josephs words against divisive activists on both sides proved to be prophetic as we did end up in civil war. Just wanted to clarify by somthing I read in the Joseph Smith papers. He believed no one should be a slave and the Constitution should restored to true principles of liberty.
The funny thing is that the most kringe thing isnt the video, it is that certain person who watches it and comments, "Yeah, I was a former Mormon and that is exactly what they believe." It is absolute madness how suceptible and primitive people view our religion.
Anyone who leaves the Church over this film has already been edging themselves toward the exit for other reasons, and just used the film as an excuse.
When I was a missionary my mission president taught a way to look at the understanding of kolob is that it is a symbol for Christ
Wasn’t this supposed to come out last night? I was looking for it.
It’s funny how falsehoods lead to curiosity that can even lead to someone investigating the church. On my mission, there was a rumor that parents would tell their children that Mormons would carry kids away in their bags. We even had to stop using backpacks because of the rumor. One day, a lady stops us to ask if the rumor was true (half jokingly), which lead to…well what do you do? A month later her whole family was getting baptized and a year later her son left on his own mission. Keep the weird stories coming, haha.
When that film 1st came out, there were approximately 5 - 6 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Today, there are over 17 million. Though the Church is not growing as fast as it did in the 1980s and 1990s, it still continues to grow. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.
Lesgooooo
@@Joshe2067yessss amen!!!
Spencer Kimball does talk about Heavenly Father having us help Him make worlds
"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000."
1975, The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood
That’s definitely false, there’s no way 225 thousand people will listen to any old guy talk 😂😂
Jason, thank you for researching that potent quote! I'm copying and saving that. Sad that we likely won't hear such bold and awe-inspiring declarations like this anymore (instead we hear suggestions for adopting Catholic traditions like Advent into our practice).
No scripture that talks about God having a Earthly birth? Didn't Christ say that he only did what his father had done and he was following his example. Joseph also talked about heavenly father being a Christ to a world somewhere.
I remeber thinking this was a big deal when I was younger and was afraid it would shake my faith like it reportedly had others. Watching it now just makes me laugh.
1:08:00. The guest (Luke?) was describing the Zoarastrian burial ritual. (edit) The guest is Cody.
I have heard that the church always grows where anti Mormon videos go around, some people get really curious and have to check the church out.
case in point, when that video came out in the 1980s, the Church had about 5 - 6 million members. The Church continues to grow, though at a much slower rate, but today the Church has over 17 million members. Also, the the 1980s, the Church had about 35,000 full-time missionaries. Today, the Church has approximately 72,000 young missionaries. If we include senior and service missionaries, the Church has alittle over 100,000 missionaries.
“The standard of truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” Joseph Smith 1842
We do not put down other religions in the Temples. That’s a lie.
Look up the older versions of the endowment. There was a minister who was paid by Satan to try to convert the audience. This was removed in 1990.
@@aspenmgyisn't it crazy how members don't know their history
Yes @shireecox122, the makers of this ANTI LDS film need to update their film, those paid ministers are not in the Temple films today. Even when these paid ministers were on the temple films, do the ANTIs know what religion or denomination these so-called ministers were from. No, because their religion nor denomination, nor affiliation was ever mentioned. For all we know, the ministers could have been from the cult down the street. It was a representation of man's teaching mingled with scripture. It could also represent someone who has great influence over people (celebrities, politicians, etc.) leading others unto the wrong path and away from God.
No! Joseph Smith never ever claimed to be a decent of Jesus Christ. He is a descendent of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, just like many of us are. We do not believe that at all. Nor do we believe, that Jesus was married to Mary, Mary, or Martha. This has never been taught, or written in our doctrines or our scriptures. Wow! This Decker guy is really trying too hard.
At time 1:08:40 the narrator says that we will stand in final judgement before Joseph Smith, the Mormon Jesus and Elohim. Where does this idea come from? I can not find any sources that comment on this.
I believe it came from Brigham Young
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.... I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy...he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.... It is his mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption.[1]
Thankyou very much. @@aspenmgy
I actually saw this on RUclips in like 2010. Duuuude. It didn’t phase me. I was like 15
Same.
So ridiculous how peeps fell away from this.
I'm convinced that people (generally) who go inactive, almost 'want' and look for ways to go inactive.
Moses 1:33-35, 7:29-31
God has created worlds without number with the intent to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
D&C 76:24
The inhabitants of these worlds are begotten sons and daughters of God.
Abraham 3:2
Kolob is the star nearest the throne of God.
We absolutely have a cosmic faith and I think it is awesome.
Then accept that. I had two missionaries’ at my door tell me that the concept of “Kolob” comes from “early Jewish teachings” and not a concept unique to your religion. As a devout Jew, that is nonsense.
@58:00 Orson Pratt believed that Jesus was married to multiple wives and wrote about suspected metaphors revealing evidence in the bible. The idea that Jesus was married and had a wife at least, Mary Magdalene, while not church doctrine, is far more acceptable to believe than in say, Catholicism. Unmarried Jesus makes little sense, by the way, historically.
xirtus, I liked your comment. I can only guess at what in Catholicism is harder to believe than Mary Magdalene being Jesus Christ's wife. Is it the immaculate conception? Is it the Creedal descriptions of His nature? Is it Jesus thinking we literally eat His body and literally drink His blood?
@@Hamann9631 Catholicism reads John 6 literally so believe the sacrament becomes through consecration by the priest the literal body and blood of Christ (yet retaining the appearance of bread and wine). It took Aristotle by way of Aquinas to make sense of it.
Jesus and Mary Magdalene was one of the bizarre premises of The DaVinci Code. No biblical or reliable extrabiblical evidence for that or for Jesus being married. Paul said it was better not to marry, so "eunuchs for the kingdom of God" by choice was not uncommon.
Arguing that Jesus not being married is nonsensical historically is a strange take being that it's hard to imagine anything that would seem historically less sensical than a man born of a virgin with the power to perform miracles and atone for the sins of the world for eternity by his blood.
The entire purpose of the narrative is to show that this one man and his life was anything but sensical or ordinary the most extraordinary person to ever live.
@@brentjohnson5171 you know what, hot take, i love it.
Weren’t spirit bodies said to have been created from “intelligences”?
The beginning is like the origin story of Superman, except they are telling it starting a generation back. Wasn’t Superman’s Father named “El”? The best lies are very twisted bits of truth. Because the film maker person knew things, they had the ability to be able to lie about it really well. What we really need is Jordan B. Peterson to read our doctrine. He has a gift of explaining religious teachings through philosophy and stories. Another thing… none of this stuff is “Mormon”. It all comes from the ancient Jewish faith. And even C.S. Lewis (who was Anglican) came to the same conclusions of Joseph Smith. J.S. Just took his conclusions full circle.
A lot of the he planetary/progression questions are in the hymn "O My Father". Pretty simply, we do believe most of these minus the yhousands of Heavenly Mothers 😂😅 she is only ever mentioned as singular.
I would say The God Makers and its sequel has forced me to view almost every argument made against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a degree of skepticism. This has proved even more so when, back in July of 2020, Ed Decker appeared on John Dehlin's Mormon Stories podcast. On the podcast, Dehlin, who has repeatedly claimed he has never lied or been dishonest in his critiques of the Church, more or less gave Decker a pass for his attacks of Mormonism. True, Dehlin did criticize some of Decker's claims, such as the weird way Decker portrayed Mormonism in the first God Makers film, as well as Decker's claims against Gordon B. Hinckley in the second God Makers film. However, Dehlin ignored nearly all of Decker's other dishonest attacks on Mormonism, and by the end of the interview had praised Decker many times for his efforts against the Church.
What I find particularly galling is how many of Dehlin's followers showered Decker with praise within the comments section of the videos. One comment saying, "I really enjoyed hearing Ed’s side of the story. I had always heard unkind things about him growing up in the LDS church. Thank you Ed for being so bold and being a pioneer of the truth!" Another comment said, "Ed, you are awesome! Kudos to you and all you have done to spread the truth of Mormonism."
But hands down, the comment which most epitomizes those who attack Mormonism is as follows. "Ed Decker is a real-live person, with feelings and convictions no different than any other. After hearing him speak, I feel he did everything “Anti-Mormon” out of love for humans."
There it is folks! It may only be in the opinion of one person, but in my view that summarizes all attacks on Mormonism. Whether the attacks are true or not, they are done "out of love for humans."
Decker, Dehlin and those who attack the Church have more or less thrown truth out of the window. To them, truth is whatever they say it is, and you don’t have to take my word for it. Those who attack the Church are admitting it.
Nailed it 🎯
I watched that episode of Mormon Stories. John Dehlin did a very good job of putting Ed Decker under pressure...particularly over the content of the OTHER Godmakers video, i.e. Godmakers 2, released in 1992. This showed John's integrity.
Decker was also heavily criticised by the Tanners. I remember receiving an edition of the Tanners' newsletter, which closely examined Decker's claims in the 1992 film and took them apart.
@@Themanyfacesofego Dehlin may not be Decker’s biggest fan, but he still let Decker off the hook a few times. Not only that, the comments posted online regarding the interview, with the vast majority of people coming to Decker’s defense, did nothing to give Mormon Stories any credibility.
@@clarklarsen1973 Thanks. Could you give any examples from the interview where John could have done better? At what stage could he have really delivered decisive blows?
I felt he did really well, and it seemed that Decker actually regretted making the video.
@@Themanyfacesofego In the four or so hours that John Dehlin interviewed Ed Decker, not once was anything said about the claim Decker made in The God Makers that blood atonement was still going on the Church. Not once did Dehlin ask Decker about the claims he has made that the LDS Church has a replica of the Oval Office inside the Washington DC temple for the day when the Mormons will supposedly take over America.
Not only that, there were large segments of the God Makers II which Dehlin said nothing about. The claim Decker made that the BYU Jerusalem Center was built in order to do missionary work among the Jews, because, as is stated in the God Makers II, the Mormons claim to be the real Jews. Dehlin said nothing about Decker flying to Jerusalem and holding a press conference in which he made all sorts of untrue allegations against the Church and the Center.
Finally, Dehlin said nothing to Decker about Lillian Chynoweth, who was, at one time a member of Ervil LeBaron's off shoot group. The God Makers II film show an interview Chynoweth did, but then the film states that she died soon after the interview. The film, however, does not state that Chynoweth died by suicide. As quoted by the Tanners, "[t]his statement certainly suggests to all those who see the video, that Lillian Chynoweth was murdered in cold blood. What the producers of The God Makers II fail to tell the viewer is that Lillian took her own life."
Dehlin could have easily discussed this with Decker, but it wasn't mentioned, unless I missed a part of the interview.
Finally, at the end of the final video, Dehlin casually dismisses the criticism leveled against Decker by groups and individuals outside of the LDS Church to Decker's work. Dehlin gives Decker the opportunity to basically state that those oppose light are those who support darkness. In a nutshell, Dehlin clearly demonstrates that Decker and his work can best be summed up as "The ends justify the means," or that 1% of the truth has the same value as 100% of the truth, at least in their camp it that's the case.
In our pre-earth life when we lived with Heavenly Father, there was an event we attended where the plan for our progression was presented. The plan was Heavenly Father’s and He asked who would go be our savior. Christ did volunteer to become our savior and give all the glory to our Heavenly Father.
That’s when Lucifer spoke up and said he had a different plan than the Father’s. Lucifer wanted the ultimate control over all mankind and to force them to always be obedient. He claimed that he could save everyone with his plan. On top of that, he wanted all the glory-to supplant himself as God instead of Heavenly Father. His plan was completely sinister. He had no intentions of saving anyone. He couldn’t. He would not have been able to take away our freedom to choose. That was impossible. God the Father couldn’t do it either. If we would have done so, he would have ceased to be God. So, Lucifer’s plan was a complete lie. He only wanted one thing-to make himself God. Heavenly Father knew this and rejected Lucifer’s counterfeit of a plan.
No Cap! Just Facts!
Wait until Cardon finds out they made a sequel to this film called the god makers 2.
I saw the cartoon several years ago. My . take is like your guest said that it was made to make Mormons as a strange religion . As member of the church I found it quite funny. film ,and wrong on some things. I 'm surprised that people fell for it and left.
This was a cringy episode. I think it would’ve been better if his support cast is there to help him out and give better explanations.
When you have a better podcast and do a better job, please post the link.
@@WARDRADIO Why not just do it again with more support? Isn't the whole point of this type of video to disprove or debunk and not to say "ah well not really" "I don't think so" and just not answer questions?
Cool episode Cardon! I had a great laugh watching that footage too. It also reminded me of how much knowledge we have been given about who we are and God, thanks to Joseph Smith restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Early Mormon leaders said God and Jesus were polygamists as a way to justify Mormon polygamist teachings.
Top leaders used the examples of the polygamy of God the Father and Jesus Christ in defense of it and these teachings on God and Jesus' polygamy were widely accepted among Latter-day Saints by the late 1850s.[27][28][22]: 84 In 1853, Jedediah M. Grant-who later become a member of the First Presidency-stated that the top reason behind the persecution of Christ and his disciples was due to their practice of polygamy.[29][27] Two months later, apostle Orson Pratt taught in a church periodical that "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives," and that after her death, Mary (the mother of Jesus) may have become another eternal polygamous wife of God.[30] He also stated that Christ had multiple wives-Mary of Bethany, Martha, and Mary Magdalene-as further evidence in defense of polygamy.[31][27] In the next two years the apostle Orson Hyde also stated during two general conference addresses that Jesus practiced polygamy[32][27] and repeated this in an 1857 address.[33]
You are overexplaining a lot of this. Simple yes and no answers would have sufficed on some of his questions
He said no to the racist part but that was in the Book of Mormon so is likely the most true of the whole cartoon if you believe the church that is, the other stuff was taught outside the Book of Mormon which they say is the most true book on earth.
@@James.chalmers that is not taught in the book of mormon
@@maxpeterson3178 2 Nephi 5:21
@lukev483 it does.
The video said members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe that only white people accepted Jesus in the premortal life. The Book of Mormon does not say that in any way. It does have language similar to what you mentioned. I'm not a versed apologist or fact checker. That wording is not my favorite thing in the book but it doesn't change my testimony
@@maxpeterson3178 What about 2 Nephi 5:21?
There were many moments that I cringed more at Cardon’s explanation/skirting around answers then I did at the film. The film is still just solid cringe though…
I hope you're ok now and when you think you could do it better, send me the link.
I think the context is missing. Cardon was speaking to how we’re taught. We don’t sit in church and hear weekly talks and chant about our ascension to Kolob, or becoming “gods” (little g) or even polygamy. We aren’t missionaries for the anti-church so how would we know exactly what they are saying in some instances? Many “older” disaffected saints claim teaching these things was normal, but many of us have the benefit of older converts parents, grand parents and in my case great greats from the 1830’s who know better and left great diaries and what not. I’m often told I’ll become a god, but it’s not something that has come up more than 1 or two times in passing while in church, during my nearly five decades in it. Funny that…
Cardon, you did great. There were just some moments I started yelling out loud at my phone. I appreciate what you do!
@@WARDRADIOWhat a sensitive reaction!
This is embarrassingly bad. I'm sorry to anyone who left the church over this "temple of the god-makers" thing because it just is so blatantly dumb.
@@lukev483, All of the problems with the church historically and contemporary have been human. People are inherently flawed, no organization on earth is going to be perfect. I'm glad I'm a member of the church, in spite of any issues, it is the true church of Jesus Christ.
@@lukev483 Brother Luke, and yet you have admitted elsewhere that you have a valid temple recommend and go to church about 4 times a year.
This movie lead my little sister away from the church. I’m still hoping she comes back.
Keep praying for her and inviting her to church and other things! I pray things turn out well for ya.
@@OverRUclips-she won’t find this kind of stuff in church only spoke about in priesthood meeting or when Mormons meet together outside of church or the very indoctrinated families when having meals ect 😅 but the Mormons believe all the stuff in the cartoon
I only say that because if someone mentioned or spoke about this in a church meeting they would be asked to leave or the subject would be changed 😂
luv, I suspect this film was just a clear and easy exit ramp and that your sister was already disengaging long before this gave the excuse. Most people leave the Church for many reasons before they make it final and then point to the CES Letter or movies like The Godmakers. Here's praying for her.
@@lukev483 they removed my comments
Cardon, bro, idk why you’re acting so confused. I feel like I just sat through a normal high priest group meeting.
Ya it was a little disappointing.
PipeDaddy907, thou shalt not bear false witness! I have only been to one meeting of the high priests group; however, I know the church's teachings. This is not a normal high priest group meeting (unless you are talking about an entire ward so out of line it needs ex-communication.
@@lukev483 In a class of any religion, that religions' teachings are taught. So, I know what goes on those classes by knowing what that religion teaches.
@@lukev483that hamman guy has been commenting on Mormon videos for years… I remember him from years back trying to debate people
56:00 There is no truth to that claim(by The Temple God Makers video). Cardon is correct in this video. Adam and Eve are complete different beings from Father in Heaven and Mother in Heaven according to The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mary was a virgin.
I’ve only heard of The God Makers. This is my first time seeing. The animation is slick. The explanations are out there to say the least.
Joseph Smith sitting in judgment in his 1840s jacket and ascot, lol.
43:42 Symbolic component? If we go by the LDS book it clearly states that it is a star or planet. I see where you want to say that it may be symbolic, but you need more evidence to point to that conclusion.
I heard about the film as a kid but never watched because my seminary teacher advised against watching anti content. I’m glad that I’ve seen it now when I’m older and understand the rhetorical tricks used to twist things against people.
Cwic Media did an episode on Kolob. The passage is about the organization of the hierarchy of Heaven. Kolob is nearest to Gods throne and gives it's light to the "Great Ones" which pass it to us. Abraham is called one of the Great ones later in the chapter. Kolob is Jesus and He gives the prophets Gods light to pass to us. The Throne of God is in His Temple, in the Holy of Holies. Jesus is the One nearest to the Throne making Hime the high priest of God. The passage is in a vision and shouldn't be read literally.
little background Ed Decker was excommunicated for Adultery he was upset and made it his mission to destroy the church
Ed needn't have tried so hard...now there's the internet which is doing it for him. He could have put his feet up and had a quiet life.
Yes, many Mormons believed black people were fence sitters in the pre existence.
And the Curse of Cain didn't come from the south. Mormons got it from the Book of Moses chapter 7.
22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were ablack, and had not place among them.
Carson's pants are on fire.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder what Cardon really knows vs what he is supposed to know and teach. It's a missionary mindset. There's cognitive dissonance at play, and I know many ex-mishies who resent the church's acknowledging things like Fanny Alger and Joseph's hat and stone because they were drilled on combatting those charges. The Church has become more honest, but kryptonite like blacks in the preexistence they won't address head-on, even when it's there in print.
@@g.p.ryecroft he also said 50 to 100 people were killed at Mountain Meadows. The number is over 100 but that's not what bothered me.
Children. Children were killed. Not just people. Men, women, and children.
@@aspenmgy I agree that Cardon underplayed that, offering excuses like suspected Wildcatters were in the wagon train. How does that excuse killing anybody, let alone innocent women and children? Mountain Meadows needs to be condemned without excuse or explanation.
@@g.p.ryecroftCardon almost always offers a huge justification before very briefly admitting the awful reality of the subject
I have heard alot of the stuff in the cartoon from Church people but, not like it potrays. More like Cardin explains it. Thing is that is what got me in. it just made so much sense to me. I never could understand the idea of God being all alone. But, dont rely on this cartoon go talk to missionaries cause this is twisting it up to make us look bad. if you want to understand a religion don't talk to it's enemies
@@lukev483 Luke you are one of the most dishonest people on here. In some comments you say you are a "card carrying member". In other comments you say you don't believe in God. You are almost as dishonest as this cartoon ;-)
If you talk to disgruntled coworkers you probably won't get good information. One thing I don't like about the cartoon is it says The Church thinks Black people are ones that couldn't make up their mind winch side the was on. we don't think that and people will watch this cartoon and think we do