What do you think about the repro label debate? Much ado about nothing? An issue that is bad and getting worse? ►Original vid @ bit.ly/2sF2ozN ►Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast ►More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH ►Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle
Pat the NES Punk 8-Bit Guy made it clear in his video that he isn't selling his games. The reason he used those games was to test it. He's also stated that it was to make these items look good for his collection.
AnorakTrend Its not about his intent. Its about him unintentionally giving scandalous sellers an idea on how to make some easy quick bucks from reprinted labels to any game now.
I'm fine with it if it's for your own personal collection and you have no interest in selling it. I have a few. The big no no is changing the cover and selling it without telling the buyer.
So, I'd just like to make a comment here. When I produced the video, I never expected the controversy on this. I actually had no idea there were people out there that actually cared so much about labels on vintage games. And while my intentions were just to make my own games look better, they will eventually be sold off when I die, or whatever. So I've decided in future I'll write "reproduction label" on any that I do in small inconspicuous text somewhere. That should alleviate everyone's concerns.
Haha you are awesome. Before you die, that moment when you are laying in a warm bed, trying to emulate your last words, i can imagine you saying to your kids "if you sell the Wrestlemania cartridge, specify it doesn't have the original label. I love you". So it's not madness out there. Jeesh.
The 8-Bit Guy they are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's your personal property. I don't see an issue with this. It's not like you're selling them for profit. Guessing they are looking at the bigger picture where people will take your good intentions and turn it into something bad -like selling counterfeit goods. Ehh...I find their complaints to be nothing more than whining.
Don't write anything on the label. Who gives a fuck. Pat and his minions are idiots. www.thecoverproject.net/ - here are tons of covers and some labels.
8 bit guy dont listen to the haters i love your video on this it actually makes the collection look better i do the same thing besides its your property pat and ian need to get shut down for this dont put repro label on the labels you print it makes it look tacky keep making your personal collection look great thats what i do your a great youtuber as well ignore the haters
I replaced the decal on the hood of my '77 Trans Am with an aftermarket repro when I got the car repainted. Pontiac no longer exists and even if they did they stopped making replacement hood decals decades ago. The label on the 8-bit guy's game was basically destroyed and I doubt OEM labels are being produced by the original manufacturers. What is wrong with restoring vintage/antique items , any serious collector can spot repros/restoration/originals. That is why you never refinish old furniture unless absolutely necessary. If a label is torn off or missing from a game then yes I would say it is necessary to restore it.
It isn’t what he is doing that they were complaining about it’s what eBay scammers that sell rare games with repro labels and don’t say anything about it
For the record I could reproduce a label that you wouldn't be able to spot. This isn't the 90's with dot matrix printers. It would take me a few prints to adjust the color profile until it was spot on accurate to an original. Then printing, laminating with the right materials and cutting it to perfect spec with a plotter. Again this can all be worked out with the right tools to be perfect. It only takes a few test cuts to get the plot right for the corner radiuses and size constraints. Just because I can do this doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it less illegal either. The label is the first indicator of a non legit product. I could order fake little Samson games from Ali Express and put the boards into original cases with my labels and half the people buying would never open the game. This is about the amount of time and effort someone wants to put into it and the fact that not everyone is a pro that can spot these anomalies on the fly. We are our only moral compass. If you see no issue with this than so be it.
i thought he represented it well. a) it's his games. b) the labels he made himself. so they aren't even high quality. they were printed paper with tape on them. c) his analogy is perfect with classic the cars. if i have a copy of conker thats completely missing a label... its worth like what, half the value? so whats the point in even having the game to begin with if it's missing a lable? and also i personally do not, and will not, sell my collections. once i own it, its mine to my grave. so i don't see anything at all wrong with this for my own collection. thats just my take though.
I follow 8-bit guy, and I am pretty sure his intention was harmless. But I also understand why serious collectors would give pause. But I don't think he deserves all this flack because it was never his intention.
yeah, I mean restoring old tech is kind of his thing after all. But he's said before that console gaming is something he's never been big into, and I do think if he really understood the potential issues it could cause like Pat & Ian laid out he probably wouldn't have made his video or at least would have very seriously reconsidered it. I certainly don't think it was his intention to teach and encourage people to try to rip off collectors and stores and such. Not being into the retro console scene, he probably didn't think too deeply into it beyond not selling the games himself.
He clearly didn't and I don't think Pat was trying to blame him for anything other than people's raised curiosity. Everyone knows that David restores old tech for his personal use and is not a bootlegger or endorsing bootlegging.
All i know is when i commented my point, i said as a collector this would be the exact behavior that i would gleefully report an ebay seller for, and that the defense of "they are his games" didn't work for me Didn't stop 20 people going "THAY'RE HIZZZ GAYMES UR JUAST A TARD COLLOCTOEER PROLLY PAY 6 HUNDRID FOR PLASTIC WRAP" and yes, they all type like that
Relabelling only affects those who solely collect for financial value. So many collectors now a days collect not because they want to play the actual games they buy, but because they want a showpiece that will gain in value. Like some retirement nest egg they can sell off one day. Because of this ideology, videogame collecting is turning into the same mess that coins, cards, and comics, have turned into. The reason the Classic Car analogy, that the 8-bit Guy used, is relevant to some of us is because, like those who restore classic car's, we intend to keep and use our item. Not block it in plastic and grade it for value.
The bubble will burst eventually, and its going to be funny when the first one to cry about it will be Pat. Im sorry i liked these podcasts only reason im subscribed here in the first place. But the constant whining is getting annoying. Theres laws for counterfeit shit, they will never be able to fully 100% replicate the label as the original, and the problem this causes is for the idiots collecting these games like they're going to be able to sit on them and sell it off later down the road. The games are meant to be played, are you going to be buried with your fucking nintendo collection. No.
"Relabelling only affects those who solely collect for financial value." Not true. I collect and it's not for financial value. Yet I wouldn't want a repro label.
Not necessarily, it also affects people who just want to collect for authenticity. Like myself, I have no plans to sell any part of my collection in the near future but I would never add a repro label to my collection. I collect to enjoy the games in their original format, to experience what it was like to play them in the past with period accurate TVs, original systems and original games with original labels.
thehaxfactory no I don't collect because it's valuable, I collect for the history. Did you completely miss my point? It's not about the financial value or any monetary gains, it's about being historically faithful to the experience of playing retro games for me.
I'm sorry but this sounds like collector elitism again. The only reason they complain is that they want their original labels to have more value. This is going to become more of an issue as time goes on and some of these labels begin to perish. What is the argument when there isn't another copy to be had? Finally, there actually is a good reason someone would want to re-label a cheap game and that's if it's one they had since childhood. You could by a better copy, but that would be the one you grew up with. There are many different ways to view this and just make blanket good and evil / yes and no statements actually detracts from the discussion.
No where in here did either of them say anything was blanket good or bad/yes and no. You on the other hand start with calling them elitists. Only condescending self important douchebags call people elitists.
"I'm sorry, kiddo, you can't open that new toy you got for your birthday. You see, some day a collector is going to want that sealed in the original package. And we mustn't disappoint the collectors."
pat is vehemently against sealed collectors. he has almost every nes game released loose in the shelves right fucking behind him. you're just digging for any way you can find to discredit their opinions rather than addressing the actual point.
thecombinearecoming No, I was taking it to the most hyperbolic extent. You see, to some people, the backlash at this presenter because "Think about the collectors!" is nearly as overreacttive. (Perspective through exaggeration.)
Reproduction and Restoration are completely different things. Replacing a label is not the same as making a fully reproduction of Nintendo World Championship. I see nothing wrong with restoring old NES games. Im not a NES collector but if I was a casual NES collector. I wouldn't care about value or integrity of it legitimacy. I would only care about if the game runs and looking good on my video game shelf. If i bought Little Samson and it was the only one i could find but its in bad condition. I wouldn't care how rare it is. if it looks bad, i would want to restore it. The hardware and software is the same, Just with a replaced label.
You don't seem to get it at all. It has ZERO to do with increasing the value of a game. It is about making the games in MY collection that don't have a label/have a tatty label look nice and identifiable again! Yes, even if they're cheap or common! It's MY collection, my property, for my own personal pleasure, not yours! They're bloody video games, not Picassos!
They literally said you can do what you want with your games. Please explain why that means they can't have their opinions about it....and then explain why your fucking bitch ass is such an entitled little fucking prick.
@TheVitaGamer ultimately it will coincide with standard practice for comics and coins. And the label will be treated either like a cover or surface. Those play huge valuation markers in both of those respective fields. If a comic has it's cover replaced it becomes essentially worthless. Same with restoring the surface of an old coin. Both basically revert to scrap prices. Since metals have a recycle value greater than paper your less bad in coins than comics. No matter how you say you feel about the current value, you know when you sell it on you will want the most return on your initial investment. A cartridge with even only a partial original label will still be valued considerably over that of one with a fake label. It doesn't matter how close it looks. It is either original or fake. Those are the only two categories that exist in the valuation game. By all means do whatever you like with your property. But if you ever plan to reconcile some of your investment back when you relieve yourself of them you might want to just leave those bad condition labels alone. It's not like it has any effect on how the game operates.
SO LONG as the game contained in the cart is indeed the game that the label says it is I am 100% okay with a Repro label. To me all that matters is the CONTENTS of the games...that is why I collect games. These are not comic books where every time you open it you can damage it and damage to the pages literally damaged the content itself.
The comic book analogy is wrong: the cartridge label is irrelevant to it's cost, the state of the actual game is the only thing that matters (that it can actually start, that it's not a buggy inaccurate reproduction, that the game only has the known bugs and no other, etc).
They're cheap stickers that were made for 1 cent each. Personally I find this pretty ridiculous, I've never bought a game and thought, damn, I sure hope they don't put a good sticker on this, I'm going to be so upset it's not an original, 1 cent, crappy sticker.
whos to say theyll be sold when he dies? maybe theyll be passed down? who even knows if there will be a retro games market at that point? its his shit let the man do what he wants.
>Someone uses a printer >Collectors use their mind seriously, get over yourself, check what you buy, dry your tears (and hey, i have a complete conquer 64, complete misadventures of tron bonne, i'm a collector, why aren't they sealed anymore? because i played them, that's why i bought them, gaming is about gaming, otherwise you're better off collecting stamps or plates or pennies)
No its all about MONEY. MONEY MONEY MONEY. He just wanted it to look good on the shelf not to sell it. Wait...sell it...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. Its a three dollar game. Did you say dollar...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. MAybe we should play the games and not worry about a FUCKING sticker. MONEY MONEY MONEY !!!!
If you are only into playing the games, emulation is a cheaper and better choice imo. If you are into real original media, why would you use counterfeits over the real authentic ones?
The way I see it, there are 3 main categories: 1. Retro gamers that don't care about how they play the games, as long they can and do play them. 2. Retro game collectors that may play the games, but also do things like hoard multiple copies of a rare game just for the sake of hoarding it thinking it will turn them into Scrooge McDuck. 3. People such as myself that for the most part only collect what I have interest in playing.
Mana C he actually made the labels and didnt do an exact copy of them. Anyone who cares about label quality would know that they were not the real ones.
So what I take from this is you guys didn't watch or listen to 8bitguy's video. When he created both labels from scratch When he said he had no intention to sell the game When he said it's purely for his own use When he used his home printer When he used *clear tape* to cover the printer paper Y'all are raking this guy over the coals and saying his video's a problem but you DIDN'T WATCH IT. Seriously, try watching a video before griping about what this poor guy did.
I watch both Pat and 8-Bit regularly. Pat is ALWAYS a bit brash in his casts. I can understand his view as I'm very similar in classic movie collecting. However, I'd have generalized it more regarding the problem. I have ALSO done what 8-Bit Guy, Dave, has done and relabeled some of the movies I've received. Granted, mine are usually duplicates, and the covers & jackets I've relabeled are in horrible condition. Yet, I'm happy that I did it. I won't sell these as if they had authentic labeling, and my reproductions are noticeably not authentic. I would say, if you're going to make a comment on a youtuber's video like this, invite them in for discussion. In fact, "I challenge you to invite the 8-Bit Guy to a podcast", even if by phone. You both might find HUGE benefit in this. If anyone else thinks this is a fair idea and challenges Pat to invite The 8-Bit Guy to a podcast, throw up a like to this comment.
When David Murray (The 8-Bit Guy) made the restoration video of the two game labels, I knew that it would end up being discussed in this podcast. That being said, while you have the right to criticize fraudulent sellers who are selling counterfeits into the collecting community, you don't really have the right to criticize David for restoring his personal property. Now, I've seen your responses to other commenters that "It's a topic about the larger issue, not just what one person does with their games", which is a fine sentiment, but why is that a response to David Murray and his tutorial on how he repaired his damaged labels? It's almost as if you are implying that David is personally teaching scammers how to counterfeit NES/Atari labels which would be a gross misrepresentation of his video. Counterfeiting has been around long before David's video; and far more effective ways of counterfeiting at that. I don't doubt that you watched the video, therefore you will know that he photoshopped the two labels in question - meaning that any store that sells retro games should easily be able to spot the non-genuine labels if they were ever released into the wild. I really don't like the vapid rhetoric that plagues the comments section on this video where some of your audience are gambling that "when David dies" his games could be sold to the public for full price. And? That is the nature of 2nd hand trading. Quite frankly it is the buyer's responsibility to thoroughly inspect the goods that they are purchasing. As you say, 96% of people may not care, but those 4% who do care will probably be armed with the skills to detect that David's WrestleMania and Pitfall don't have genuine labels. Pre-emptively, obviously you cannot thoroughly inspect an item if it is on sale on something like eBay, but you always have the right to return the item if you believe that it doesn't meet your standards. After all, we are talking about a bit of sticky printed paper stuck to a plastic box that houses a game chip. Honestly, the real value in video games is the playable content of the game - not the pretty packaging. It is a false equivalence to compare video game collecting to comic book collecting as the comic itself holds the value. Additionally, even if scammers did end up using David's techniques to restore labels to increase the value of their goods specifically to dupe their sellers, then that simply has nothing to do with David himself. David created a video detailing how he restored his property - it is not his responsibility when other people emulate his methods for nefarious purposes.
"Quite frankly it is the buyer's responsibility to thoroughly inspect the goods that they are purchasing." No, it is the seller's responsibility to be ethical and not a piece of shit. You'd rather excuse counterfeiting and not hold sellers responsible. HUGE agree to disagree.
Whoa whoa whoa. I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth there, Pat. Of course sellers have a responsibility to be ethical. EVERYBODY has a responsibility to be ethical. The extract quote you took from my reply is correct; buyers do have a level of responsibility to investigate what they are buying. Especially in a 2nd hand market! That said, I would absolutely advocate that sellers need to be ethical. All sellers must be held accountable for the goods that they are selling. I wasn't making the point that responsibility lies entirely with one party or the other; responsibility here must be tandem because of the nature of the hobby. However: Why is that relevant here? I spoke specifically about David Murray (The 8-Bit Guy). He isn't doing anything unethical. He simply restored his property and uploaded a video about how he did it. That is not me making excuses for counterfeiting in the slightest. I'll just outright say it now that I do not condone fraudulant counterfeiting. I agree with you that sellers who do counterfeit are indeed pieces of shit. David Murray was neither counterfeiting nor was he selling his cartridges. The entire reason behind my comment was to ascertain why you would even bring David in to the discussion at all. You make legitimate criticism against scumbag sellers who actively attempt to rip people off, but that is certainly not the case when it comes to David's channel or practises. What are we disagreeing about exactly? BTW, long time subscriber, love the content. Thanks for engaging.
I've already directly quoted Pat when he said this was about the "larger" issue; I did not need you to parrot that, Warrax. This isn't about David? Gee, the whole segment is only about David/8-Bit Guy so that's a pretty big plot twist! If this was only about context then why use David at all? There are any number of eBay sellers who create counterfeit labels with the intentions to reap fradulant profit whom Pat could have used to more accurately contextualise a point about a large issue of repro labels. I don't think I've "failed" to understand Pat's point because I'm not sure he had one in the first place when it comes to the issue of David Marray. Of course Pat is 100% correct when he calls out the issues of counterfeit labels and pirated cartridges; but I fail to see what any of that has to do with The 8-Bit Guy. Even using him for "context" doesn't really make sense. Focus your attention on people who deserve to be called out and leave innocent RUclipsrs out of this - that's all I'm saying.
He already calls out people that deserve to be called out in the Scumbag seller of the week moment. About 8bit guy, you assume drama when there is none, the context you fail to understand is repro label on low value games and his video is a good example of that so it was used so people understand the point but most of you didn't and now think he's attacking him personally instead, he even mention all of this already in this video but people still get pissed and annoyed. You maybe not agree, that's fine but that's no reasons to think he's attacking him.
Its common knowledge the value is going to go down but if you got a game with a label missing or ripped to shit. Its going to get to a point where eventually things are going to have to be replaced. Also not every one wants to resale their collection
it's not repro, it's restoration, and you bring up comics, you know that comics with restorations that have been graded, which TELLS you it's restored, still go for $1000's right? you guys are showing that you're into collecting for money or bragging, not for playing
There's certainly some massive over reaction here. David (The 8-bit Guy) focuses on restorations in many (most?) of his videos and they server as a education for many that either didn't grow up with the technology, didn't have exposure to the inner workings of the technology and for those who have no idea where to start. His videos are generally awesome in the same way that the Green Brothers (Hank and John Green) videos are awesome for educational purposes. As far as restoration itself goes: We really need to take a step back and think about where the market is today. There's a lot of value in something that was kept pristine from the day it was born especially as it approaches 30, 40 and 50 years old. There's also, arguably more value in understanding the tools and techniques to restore items from our past. With the age of classic and console games hitting significant ages where parts fail and need to be replaced; we're hitting a need to discover the art of restoration if we want to keep these items in good condition for the future. By the same token, Ian no doubt does pin restorations or pin replacements for Nintendo consoles that come into Luna. By the very same token, Ian has made the same blasphemous act he's proclaiming David did. He fixed something that was broke to preserve it for the future and then will sell it; given, more readily then David did or will. I think many more gamers appreciate a fully in tact game then the collectors who want the original. More gamers want to have something cool rather then pay for the rarity of it. Really, there's a market for both; but I certainly don't think Pat's immediate kneejerk "Well its worth only half" flies here. I won't deny its worth less, but its certainly not that much of a price cut. I think the market needs to decide what its willing to pay; but fairly, I think reproduction labels certainly do need to be known. The *ONLY* problem I have with reproduciton labels is someone trying to pass it off as the original.
Man collectors are bloody strange. I mean the value should not sit in the label of a game it should be the actual bloody game and that the box is with it. It's just a bloody label is just a pice if paper that tells you what game it is i would not mind that an expensive game has a nice label and the correct label for the game be it the original or a new!one because the old was broken or what not. Man collector are like rich people so damn snobby about a pice of bloody paper.
Yeah agreed im not saying that to be an ass towards collectors but there need to be some reality towards the whole thing I mean I would not pay 300 dollar for a game because it has a label or not if they game was super rear and I love said game I would pay does 300 dollar even if the label was gone as long as it was the real game. I can agree that printing a flint stone label and put it on a Super Mario duck hunt game to try to make cash on it that wrong that´s lying. I can understand what pat said about comics if the front page is gone the comic is broken but a label that is gone will not affect if I can play the game or not.
If it was about the games, why own an original in the first place? Emulation is cheaper and easier today? If I want an original its because of authenticity, not because its a cheap fake. If its about the games, why even bother to make it "look nice"?
Yes but the Label does not make the ga,e orginal it just tell people this is the game you will play and has nothing to do with if it´s a new or old label.
You're sort of arguing that art collectors are strange for not buying replica paintings or prints over the real thing? Yes for non-collectors the whole world of collecting might seem strange, but at least with art you know that a fake Picasso will be spotted easily. Not so much with a rare complete boxed Space Taxi for C64 that can easily fetch $500 on ebay. Naturally the only difference the value which brings rare art into a whole different ballgame (and the whole authenticity police over it), which again lowers the bar for any John Doe with a printer to attempt to fake a box, manual, inlay or label to make more money from selling it. As I mention in other posts, if the DIY achievement was the motivation, why not just mark the repro stuff with your own logo and that way satisfy yourself as well as the collecting community?
I have made some repro labels, and replaced the jewel cases, for some of my games. They weren't valuable games but they are mine from when I was a child, I have a sentimental attachment to them. It felt good trying to breath some life back into my beloved games. I'm not just going to buy a new one with a better label because then it wont be my childhood game. You guys are worrying about your bottom line as a shelf collector and retro game re-seller and applying it to everyone. It comes off as pretty elitist and I feel a lot of people agree with me.
This video deserves every bit of the backlash it received. Glad this blew up in your faces honestly, it might not have been the intent but this was super petty. 8-Bit Guy is cool as shit, you probably could have emailed him and discretely settled your concern if it was this serious but instead you tried to make a public parade out of it. Think about the shit you both said. Maybe someone should make a podcast episode about how you guys don't have your games stored in a nuclear-safe vault so that when WWIII happens they can scavenge your dead belongings still intact and playable.
The comic book comparison is terrible. Comic books as a media are defined by tehir visual representation on paper, videogames are not. It's ok if you're against repro labels, but don't make it sound like it's the same thing, a comic book cover is part of the work, a video game label is just part of the presentation, big diference.
Leave it to Pat and Ian to cry about people doing what they want with their own cartridges. I guess having your games look good and you enjoying that is of secondary importance to the value they hold on the collectors market...?
He didnt use an exact copy to make the labels, so there is no reason to write "reproduction Label" anywhere on the label. Anyone who gives enough of a shit to worry about the condition of the labels would be able to tell they arent real.
I think the problem for me is the games weren't reproduction carts; they were original carts with new labels, and while close, not so close an expert couldn't tell. I honestly don't see the problem. As you say, there's an "accepted level of behavior" when restoring old pinball machines and old cars - maybe the problem is video game collectors not accepting restorations, not in printing a new label over something that's degraded.
Game collectors are worst thing in video gaming culture. You only care about the value of a game and not the game. I wish everyone relabels their games if the label is bad. It's a video game not the holy grail
Actually, that would only make games with good labels worth more. Game collectors are going to exist whether you think they are ruining the hobby or not.
It's supply and demand, while some of it has been inflated by some people, for many games there is a lot of demand and limited carts of it in existence so it commands a higher price. Would you sell a Zelda OOT for $5? Personally, for the most part, I don't care to much about condition if the price is good enough but some games, I got a Moonwalker with a torn off label for like $10 a while ago, but for some games like Super Metorid I'd like a nice copy.
Well digital games don't have rarity because digital files don't have a limited stock and can just be duplicated (also Zelda OOT is $10 on VC on the Wii) Honestly if you are not willing to pay market value, you can wine all you want but 'too bad' as there are people willing to pay more, that's market value. it's what also keeps Madden games at a value of 'worthless' because no one is willing to pay more than a few cents, if even. If a game is overpriced it will just never sell, forcing the seller to lower the price to something it will sell at. Like if a store put OOT at $500. Hell, personally my cap on used games is in the $30-60 range depending on the title (I'd pay more for something Like Mario RPG or something, but on average if it goes over $30 I'd probably just emulate it if I can). I'd love to own Earthboud but I'd personally never pay over $100 on a game cart. Sucks for me. There are enough people willing too that the game jumped to that price. It's economics, supply and demand.
There is nothing special. Correct. However, the fact that many people wish to collect these hunks of plastic gives them value. Same with coins, stamps, comic books, etc. Supply and demand (and yes, some manipulation) gives them value.
The worst part about this type of collecting is the focus on the monetary value alone without considering the context of the object which, from a historical point of view, is much more valuable than the object alone. 8-bit guy documented the project ADDING to the history and context of these items. It has ADDED value to it, perhaps not for the scumbag collectors out there, but they are irrelevant.
If a game, or any vintage item, is damaged it should be restored to preserve a piece of history... If you collect and want everything to be original and perfect... some day it will be gone. If a game costs 600 dollars take your time and inspect it closely. I don’t care if my 5 buck super mario have a reproduction label as long it works.
like it or not, people can do whatever they want to their own games. besides, the labels were in really poor shape on those games, and he just wanted them to look better in his personal collection.
He didnt even use an exact copy of the labels, so whats the sense in "reproduction label" on there if it doesnt look like the original in the first place?
Don't worry Pat, if I die after I repro label my Jaws and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde carts, I will leave them to you in my will so I will not flood the market. I will also include my Do Not Disturb hotel sign collection to Ian because he is ok with me. Thanks buddy!
fuck this, its his personal collection, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it, the only point you have is if he trys to resell it and doesnt disclose that he recreated the label.
Thinking you went way overboard with this. 8bit guy made it clear that his intent was to make his collection look more presentable. He's not doing it to make a buck off a sucker somewhere
Pat and Ian didn't accuse 8-bit guy of doing that. They were just defending those who want to preserve history and pointing out that it isn't people like 8-bit guy that are the problem, but the people using his methods of reproducing labels to profit from.
"ruin the integrity of a long Time RUclipsr" Hyperbole much? Pat said he liked his content. Not surprising, you're in every thread giving your 2 cents. The "drama" comments are projection, surely?
Bigger picture of what? The game looked like shit anyways, it was a cheap game, and he just wanted to make it a new label for himself, and perhaps he is the type that likes to be crafty so he did that instead of just buying another one for 5 bucks on ebay. Also "The collector community" yea well you guys have ruined the market for us people who just want to play these games, the flea markets and especially thrift stores have dried up alot in the past year. And this is why people are turning to other ways to play old games than deal with the bs.
The "retro game community" has lost the plot. These video games are to be played and enjoyed, it shouldn't have anything to do with the value. The only people that care about this are people that put a huge investment into it and want to be able to cash out someday. I'm personally not paying some guy that thinks he has a gold mine $600 for a cartridge I can play for free.
"These video games are to be played and enjoyed" is an argument that has nothing to do with counterfeit labels. By your logic then, it shouldn't matter what your games actually look nice or not, or even if you emulate or not. And not every video game collector is looking to "cash out." Most of us are not.
It seems relevant to me when people are bringing up the value of them, as though the intent is to have a collector's value rather than playing a game for the fun of it. Yes, you can do both, but let's not pretend people don't have a personal interest in keeping the value of these games high because they spent way more than they're worth. It goes both ways, by your logic, if the games in your collection are nice and the goal isn't to cash out, then it shouldn't matter what someone else does with their own copy. An individual is free to replace a label on their game if they so desire. If they're doing it for dishonest purposes such as to sell and misrepresent a cartridge entirely or act as though it's an original label, then I believe that's wrong. There's not much you can do about that aside from educate people as best as you can so they know the difference between real and repro. However, I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what someone does with their own personal collection just because it might "ruin" some value a bunch of greedy resellers placed on it.
I think you just described the difference between gamers and collectors. There's really nothing wrong with being either or both, but this discussion is clearly about collecting. If you don't want to collect, cool.
Justin, I don't think that's necessarily the case. For instance, Pat and Ian have both said that game-collecting with profit as an endgame is pointless. And these are fairly serious collectors - maybe not Ian, but definitely Pat. You can see his gigantic set of cartridges in every video. Some people are into collecting purely for its own sake, and many of them (most? probably) realize that at best, they might make a little bit of money many years later. If they think they're gonna pay off their kids' college through cartridges, well, that's silly.
Very soon I will be restoring old games, but if the label is in bad shape we need to put new one, it's all about bringing back to life so it can be around for many generations to come. Thank you.
An easy fix that would appease both sides of this issue is to print in the corner of a replacement label: "reproduction label" in legible red letters. It still looks nice but it lets everyone know its condition. I see no issue in wanting your collection to look physically nice (no water damaged or moth eaten labels) and sometimes it really isn't about the money or just going out and buying another one just for a better label. If I threw out everything that I owned that was broken or cosmetically damaged and bought a replacement instead of learning how to fix it and having fun in the process then my wallet would be much emptier and I would be a very boring person.
Not only did that bite guy had the audacity to brake copy right but he had the nerve to say he will do it to rare games and he will sell them off like if its nothing!
I think it’s fine as long as the circuit board and case is authentic. If the replacement label is completely indistinguishable down to the type of adhesive used. I only say this because it’s not a comic. Unlike comics I doubt the future of retro gaming will continue for future generations. The nostalgia aspect just won’t be there for those who didn’t grow up with CRT TVs. It’s already becoming increasingly rare for people to collect Atari games. Soon CRT TVs won’t work and parts will become increasingly hard to find. Playing NES Zapper games will be nonexistent. TVs with AV ports will be gone eventually as well. The value of these things are high now but when GenX Xennials and millennials are gone so is this market. There might be some fringe collectors but they won’t be playing these things, there just won’t be a way to.
I think if you do it for your own satisfaction and not for deception than it's fine. The moment you try to trade or sell without disclosing the label is a reproduction than the problems start.
Did you watch the whole video? Because he clearly says at the end that it is probably worth less because of the time he put into it when he could just buy another one. He only did it to see how it would turn out. You both are acting so hostile over something that ultimately could not matter, because yes, the coin comparison is apt unlike the comic book one Pat and Ian. A comic book is read and a video game is played, comics arent interactive so changing the cover could also change the pages inside, if you change a label on a game, the game is still the exact same product
I don't have a problem at all with repro labels. As long as they are clearly marked. Anyone who is a responsible member of the community would have them marked. Anyone else only wants a fake label to scam someone else.
Unless you don't have any intention of selling them to people, in which case you have no obligation to care what anyone else thinks. Even then, David's a good guy and if really wanted to try to make a profit on his $3 juink cartridge I'm sure he'd tell the buyer the label is replaced.
Say you have the most rare one of a kind retro game cart, however the label is completely gone except for a small corner of white from under the original printed label, would you leave it be? Leaving the unrecognizable part of the label?
You guys changed my mind. I saw 8-bit guys vid when it came out and saw no issue in him relabeling a game that was his to do with as he pleased. At first I thought you guys were kinda overboard with the "NO RELABELS" thing but at the end, I understood that any relabled game COULD reenter the market. I can now understand the desire to never want anyone to relabel because of this. 8-bit guy of course meant no harm but he didn't see things as you guy do. And as I now do. RETRO ON!!!
In my book, the only alteration to a cartridge that should be looked down on, is one that alters the ROM. Anything less than that is nonsense. And for the group of people who simultaneously argue that "if the market will buy [game] for 100 dollars, it's worth 100 dollars" but simultaneously saying "it's stupid that people are selling repro labelled games for 100 dollars"...that logic works both ways. (Not talking about you in particular Pat, but I feel like a mention-worthy size of people having babies over this are retirement fund collectors)
So... I understand the value of keeping a label legit, but... I have a Super Mario Kart cartridge with a busted label, I saw his video and thought "hmm, maybe I should do that to my poor old cart.", but if it goes by your point of view, it would be more like "Hm, I have this my busted, almost irreconcilable SMK label, I could fix it myself and give my childhood cart some love and care, so it will look shiny and new again... or I should just leave it looking like garbage for 50+ more years until someone sells it as a useless relic of the last century (because I for sure as hell won't sell that cart while I'm alive and sane, and after so long time it won't work as a game, just as a decoration), so it will be legit." Sure the pitfall cart 8bitguy restored wasn't in such a bad shape, I wouldn't have gone that far to restore it, but the wrestlemania game was, and if you can't even almost tell what the game is, why not just fix it? If you keep it busted it wont have any value anyway. If you end up selling it, of course it needs to be disclaimed, but you cant really say "restoring labels is ALWAYS bad" just because a handful of scumbags will use it to make money off collectors that were fooled by an excellent restoration or just by being careless... It's like blaming the existence of grenades on the guy that discovered gunpowder
Um....8 bit guy created the images on the label himself, anyone who looks at it for 5 seconds can see it's not the real deal. Did anyone else watch the actual video they're talking about?
As long as the 8-Bit Guy doesn't try to sell these, and if he does sell them, he'll sell them far under their price and state that they're reproduction labels, he can do what he wants with his purchased property. But I do wish he talked more about the issues with doing this and acknowledged some people's concerns about this.
How do you guys feel about rom chip transplants? Same mainboard from a donor cart with original rom chips from the non working rare title and original casing. The only thing swapped out is the same part used in a different game. To me that is less of a repro and more of a repair. What do you think? Where is the line between preservation of the game and reproduction of the game?
8 bit guy did this for something in his own collection. He bought it. He can do whatever he wants with it. Hes not trying to resell it.. Hes noy trying to pawn it off as somethimg its not. If asked im sure he would openly tell you its a remake label. Hes not trying to fool anyone. MAking a You Tube video about it would be a bad way to hide it. Everyone needs to stop beeing butthurt and let it go.
Exactly. If I find a copy of... I don't know.. NBA Jam. And the label is half ripped up. I'm going to buy a new label for it. I want it to look nice, not be a blot in my collection.
Dude, this reminded me of forth grade in 1985 trading Commando Raid for Kaboom on 2600 and getting Pac-Man instead because he swapped the chips inside without messing up the label. This shit been happening for decades and needs to stop.
I think everybody is missing one point or another. Pat and Ian aren't just talking about the 8-Bit guy himself, individually, for potentially selling or losing these carts. They're attacking the idea of making reproduction labels in general, without any indication, because they can harm the credibility of sellers who distribute them unknowingly. Whether or not you think games SHOULD have value is irrelevant, because the cat's already out of the bag if you haven't noticed. They bring the 8-Bit guy into the discussion as an example of a RUclipsr that may influence his audience to also create reproductions in significant volume.
butt hurt much? This DOESN'T affect you. If you're butthurt about repro labels, don't buy/trade for them. Managing a game store or being a collector doesn't give you the right to have a say about what somebody else does with his games and youtube channel. He could have half a BILLION subscribers and it still wouldn't matter.
Bashing a fellow RUclips creator and not even linking the video in question so others can check it out and form their own opinion? That’s pretty lame. (I know it’s been two years since this happened, but I just had to say something)
Collectors always talk about preservation. I guess that means, "Preservation, but only if the label is original, and pretty." I collect, and I'm guilty of disregarding a game if I see that the label is mostly damaged. Makes me not want to get it. Regardless if the game plays perfectly or not. I imagine most people do the same. Because of this behavior, by collectors, an otherwise perfectly functional game goes to the landfill because it's label is ugly. If it works, and it's a legitimate physical copy, why not help preserve it instead of allowing it to someday be thrown away?
I admittedly have a fake label for my copy of Kirby 64. When I originally got the game, it was in awful condition, I DID get it for $2. It is slightly different, it says "Unofficial Nintendo Seal of Quality" on the label. I personally don't care about authenticity, I just want my games to look nice, but if I were to ever resell the game (which I won't) I would definitely be honest about it.
I love gaming, I would love to collect as many games as others here and elsewhere do but I also find the hate over this to be ridiculous. Sorry but people knew how to do this way before 8-bit Guy made the video. We live in an age of information being at our fingertips. The info on how to make a label is everywhere outside of RUclips if you look. If you are THAT financially invested in the payout of your games collection, you need to take a step back and realize you don't own an original Mona Lisa and maybe invest in stocks. Games are to be enjoyed and played. Leave the perfect condition stuff to gaming museums and archives to sort out and deal with.
You guys are flogs. Fair Dinkum, The 8 bit guy states that he's doing it because he wants to. He's not doing it to make money. He mentions that he could have bought a new cartridge on ebay for $5. Its a computer game, not an antique from the 1800's.
Yet...dipshit. See....antiques from the 1800s weren't valuable at the time either. They became antiques because 200 years past. So in 200 years, fuck face, video games will be antiques from 200 years ago....and they'll be valuable like said 1800s antique. Hell some are already worth more. Fucking stupid point. "Hey these video games ain't as old as some other things that are old. That means they aren't the same! Does it make me smart for saying that? No? Fuck." That's you. That's what you sound like.
Sorry I really don't care how much this inconveniences retro game shops... I own the game... I will do with it as I please.. the Idea that "one day I will die and my repo games will be sold off and inconvenience the hobby" is a stupid slippery slope that can be applied to any object that could possibly be collected. If your issue is "well now they know how to print off stickers", well, guess what, people knew how to do before the 8-bit guy video. Love your videos and podcast.... but this really is just 2 guys complaining about something that they can't change.
I'm a huge fan of Pat and Ian. I'm also a fan of The 8 Bit Guy. I can appreciate where Pat and Ian are coming from as they are so passionate about video game preservation. However David was simply showing his viewers how to restore a personal collection, not resell. To be fair they were low value, mass produce games. In my opinion, restoring a personal collection is fine. I would have much more fun and feel a sense of accomplishment restoring my personal cartridge collection rather then replacing for a worthless like for like.
I'm a toy collector and have been for over 20 years. We deal with the same thing with re-carded, re-bubbled and re-stickers toys. Whether it be a re-stickered G.I. Joe vehicle or a re-carded vintage Kenner Star Wars figure. A while back I PURPOSELY bought a lower grade, but great looking, example of a AFA graded Star Wars & G.I. Joe figure. Only because I knew the odds of an authentic historical item being at or near 100%. Even if I loathe the idea of it being slabbed and untouchable. Yes, I could crack them open, but if I ever need to resell, it hurts my ability to do so. The bottom line is though, technology and greed are guaranteed to ruin this aspect of collecting. Regardless of the trumped up "experts" of graded items, no one will be able to tell at some point. As we all know, it's happening now already. When confidence erodes and there's no grading system, or faith in one, then authenticity will be dead. Premium pricing will be dead, and the community as a whole will lose out. Unfortunately this is the result of the ease of which you can buy rare items online from around the world, and the popularity of some of these things.
How do you feel about arcade machine restorations? It's a game, but also a machine. There is a far smaller scale for sure. But do you feel one should buy side art or marquee art from another machine, or is it okay to reproduce these?
Records & tapes are the best parallel to draw. The rules are pretty much the same, and same grading scale that applies to jackets and sleeves can be applied to game packaging. Same counterfeiting concerns, etc.
JUST A THOUGHT...what if Nintendo was like "ok we will re print labels for anybody with beyond damaged labels" I wonder if that would effect it? because then it would still be legit from Nintendo
This is not just about video games, it can be applied to EVERYTHING then. Basically in any collector's mind, no matter how beat up your redline hotwheels car, your unplayable '59 sunburst les paul, your rustbucket '69 camaro with matching motor, do not do anything to it because it devalues it immediately correct? Therefore the redline can't be restored with new spectaflame, the les paul can't be restored to playable to tour with, and the '69 camaro must be left rusty and dead, even WHEN it is your own property to do with as your please, because some highly skilled person could make a restoration or reproduction so accurate it could be used to fraud someone out of money. is this correct??? Because THAT HAPPENS ALL THE DAMN TIME! CAR SHOWS! JOE BONAMASSA! Hotwheels youtube videos!! Should they all be shunned??! I'll tell the guys from restoration garage on TV they can't do it anymore because they are teaching some guy how to rip someone off with a restored car.
This is an issue for serious collectors, but not the casual person who just wants to play the game. If someone just wants a cartidge to play, they won't care. But for collector's then on principle you'd want the original label. And at that point I don't think I need to address the issue for people selling them.
I don't see the problem with repro labels. After all, if someone has a repro label on their cartridge, it'll just make the ones with a real, unmolested label worth that much more than the ones that have a repro label. Take the Liberty Eagle gold coin for example. There have been so many reproductions of the coin, that the authentic ones are often worth that much more than it's melt value. Also the Shelby Cobra classic car comes to mind. I.e. many reproductions, makes the original 1100 Shelby Cobras worth that much more, due to the fact the market has dozens more repro Shelby Cobras. Just some food for thought......
8:30 talking about pinball machines: "people are going to play that" Do you not play video games? Do you sell games to people not expecting people to play them? If a pinball machine has broken or worn parts it is perfectly okay to replace them, same exact thing with video games.
I understand the point of the 8-Bit guy perfectly as well as yours guys. If someone restores his own comic book, for own purpose... no harm on it. But if it restores it with the intention of improving it's grade for selling purposes (with a better price), shame on whoever dos that.
Ian's distaste for it as a seller is understandable, because it makes his job harder. That being said, resellers need to adapt. I teach as a job and stuff changes, paradigms shift, every couple years. If stores aren't willing to adapt to a problem (if it is such a huge problem) then newer sellers who can adapt will take their places. Just like if I don't adapt to new pedagogies I can lose my job, too. Dealing with disappointing developments comes with doing the job you love. On a personal note, I see no problem if the person has NO intention to sell or misrepresent their collection. Yes, the odd circumstances put those people in a seller's position sometimes but that's just how it goes until, like Pat described, the community comes up with firm standards regarding condition.
There is some solace in this. Some Nes labels are just paper with a sticker backed to it, mainly early to mid early nes games so those are easier to find out if the label is fake. Harder games are the later Nes games from mid to late nintendo nes releases as they have a lamination ontop of them, all Snes games have this. Some labels are cut differently from the manufacturer as well. So it is becoming a lot harder to tell the difference
So I have an original copy of CBFD for n64 but the label has something stuck all over it and it's faded to hell, so if I were to sell it to someone looking to buy, you're saying it's worth more the way it is than if I showed them it was original and then put a new label on it?
What do you think about the repro label debate? Much ado about nothing? An issue that is bad and getting worse?
►Original vid @ bit.ly/2sF2ozN
►Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast
►More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH
►Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle
Pat the NES Punk I think repro labels are an abomination
Pat the NES Punk It might kill the retro gaming collectability.
Pat the NES Punk 8-Bit Guy made it clear in his video that he isn't selling his games. The reason he used those games was to test it. He's also stated that it was to make these items look good for his collection.
AnorakTrend Its not about his intent. Its about him unintentionally giving scandalous sellers an idea on how to make some easy quick bucks from reprinted labels to any game now.
I'm fine with it if it's for your own personal collection and you have no interest in selling it. I have a few. The big no no is changing the cover and selling it without telling the buyer.
So, I'd just like to make a comment here. When I produced the video, I never expected the controversy on this. I actually had no idea there were people out there that actually cared so much about labels on vintage games. And while my intentions were just to make my own games look better, they will eventually be sold off when I die, or whatever. So I've decided in future I'll write "reproduction label" on any that I do in small inconspicuous text somewhere. That should alleviate everyone's concerns.
Haha you are awesome. Before you die, that moment when you are laying in a warm bed, trying to emulate your last words, i can imagine you saying to your kids "if you sell the Wrestlemania cartridge, specify it doesn't have the original label. I love you". So it's not madness out there. Jeesh.
The 8-Bit Guy they are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's your personal property. I don't see an issue with this. It's not like you're selling them for profit. Guessing they are looking at the bigger picture where people will take your good intentions and turn it into something bad -like selling counterfeit goods. Ehh...I find their complaints to be nothing more than whining.
Don't write anything on the label. Who gives a fuck. Pat and his minions are idiots.
www.thecoverproject.net/ - here are tons of covers and some labels.
8 bit guy dont listen to the haters i love your video on this it actually makes the collection look better i do the same thing besides its your property pat and ian need to get shut down for this dont put repro label on the labels you print
it makes it look tacky keep making your personal collection look great thats what i do your a great youtuber as well ignore the haters
Thanks for all your contributions to the community David.
I replaced the decal on the hood of my '77 Trans Am with an aftermarket repro when I got the car repainted. Pontiac no longer exists and even if they did they stopped making replacement hood decals decades ago. The label on the 8-bit guy's game was basically destroyed and I doubt OEM labels are being produced by the original manufacturers.
What is wrong with restoring vintage/antique items , any serious collector can spot repros/restoration/originals. That is why you never refinish old furniture unless absolutely necessary. If a label is torn off or missing from a game then yes I would say it is necessary to restore it.
It isn’t what he is doing that they were complaining about it’s what eBay scammers that sell rare games with repro labels and don’t say anything about it
For the record I could reproduce a label that you wouldn't be able to spot. This isn't the 90's with dot matrix printers. It would take me a few prints to adjust the color profile until it was spot on accurate to an original. Then printing, laminating with the right materials and cutting it to perfect spec with a plotter. Again this can all be worked out with the right tools to be perfect. It only takes a few test cuts to get the plot right for the corner radiuses and size constraints. Just because I can do this doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it less illegal either. The label is the first indicator of a non legit product. I could order fake little Samson games from Ali Express and put the boards into original cases with my labels and half the people buying would never open the game. This is about the amount of time and effort someone wants to put into it and the fact that not everyone is a pro that can spot these anomalies on the fly. We are our only moral compass. If you see no issue with this than so be it.
i thought he represented it well. a) it's his games. b) the labels he made himself. so they aren't even high quality. they were printed paper with tape on them. c) his analogy is perfect with classic the cars. if i have a copy of conker thats completely missing a label... its worth like what, half the value? so whats the point in even having the game to begin with if it's missing a lable? and also i personally do not, and will not, sell my collections. once i own it, its mine to my grave. so i don't see anything at all wrong with this for my own collection. thats just my take though.
I follow 8-bit guy, and I am pretty sure his intention was harmless. But I also understand why serious collectors would give pause. But I don't think he deserves all this flack because it was never his intention.
yeah, I mean restoring old tech is kind of his thing after all. But he's said before that console gaming is something he's never been big into, and I do think if he really understood the potential issues it could cause like Pat & Ian laid out he probably wouldn't have made his video or at least would have very seriously reconsidered it. I certainly don't think it was his intention to teach and encourage people to try to rip off collectors and stores and such. Not being into the retro console scene, he probably didn't think too deeply into it beyond not selling the games himself.
He clearly didn't and I don't think Pat was trying to blame him for anything other than people's raised curiosity. Everyone knows that David restores old tech for his personal use and is not a bootlegger or endorsing bootlegging.
Agreed
All i know is when i commented my point, i said as a collector this would be the exact behavior that i would gleefully report an ebay seller for, and that the defense of "they are his games" didn't work for me
Didn't stop 20 people going "THAY'RE HIZZZ GAYMES UR JUAST A TARD COLLOCTOEER PROLLY PAY 6 HUNDRID FOR PLASTIC WRAP"
and yes, they all type like that
Intent is irrelevant.
Relabelling only affects those who solely collect for financial value.
So many collectors now a days collect not because they want to play the actual games they buy, but because they want a showpiece that will gain in value. Like some retirement nest egg they can sell off one day.
Because of this ideology, videogame collecting is turning into the same mess that coins, cards, and comics, have turned into.
The reason the Classic Car analogy, that the 8-bit Guy used, is relevant to some of us is because, like those who restore classic car's, we intend to keep and use our item. Not block it in plastic and grade it for value.
The bubble will burst eventually, and its going to be funny when the first one to cry about it will be Pat. Im sorry i liked these podcasts only reason im subscribed here in the first place. But the constant whining is getting annoying. Theres laws for counterfeit shit, they will never be able to fully 100% replicate the label as the original, and the problem this causes is for the idiots collecting these games like they're going to be able to sit on them and sell it off later down the road. The games are meant to be played, are you going to be buried with your fucking nintendo collection. No.
"Relabelling only affects those who solely collect for financial value."
Not true. I collect and it's not for financial value. Yet I wouldn't want a repro label.
Not necessarily, it also affects people who just want to collect for authenticity. Like myself, I have no plans to sell any part of my collection in the near future but I would never add a repro label to my collection. I collect to enjoy the games in their original format, to experience what it was like to play them in the past with period accurate TVs, original systems and original games with original labels.
thehaxfactory no I don't collect because it's valuable, I collect for the history. Did you completely miss my point? It's not about the financial value or any monetary gains, it's about being historically faithful to the experience of playing retro games for me.
No you are wrong, i wouldn't buy anything that has fake stuff on it and I'm not even a collector
I'm sorry but this sounds like collector elitism again. The only reason they complain is that they want their original labels to have more value. This is going to become more of an issue as time goes on and some of these labels begin to perish. What is the argument when there isn't another copy to be had? Finally, there actually is a good reason someone would want to re-label a cheap game and that's if it's one they had since childhood. You could by a better copy, but that would be the one you grew up with. There are many different ways to view this and just make blanket good and evil / yes and no statements actually detracts from the discussion.
No where in here did either of them say anything was blanket good or bad/yes and no. You on the other hand start with calling them elitists. Only condescending self important douchebags call people elitists.
Do people think 8-bit guy invented printing stickers?
You guys might want to go double-check some of your "mint condition label" games.
"I'm sorry, kiddo, you can't open that new toy you got for your birthday. You see, some day a collector is going to want that sealed in the original package. And we mustn't disappoint the collectors."
pat is vehemently against sealed collectors. he has almost every nes game released loose in the shelves right fucking behind him. you're just digging for any way you can find to discredit their opinions rather than addressing the actual point.
thecombinearecoming No, I was taking it to the most hyperbolic extent. You see, to some people, the backlash at this presenter because "Think about the collectors!" is nearly as overreacttive. (Perspective through exaggeration.)
Reproduction and Restoration are completely different things. Replacing a label is not the same as making a fully reproduction of Nintendo World Championship. I see nothing wrong with restoring old NES games. Im not a NES collector but if I was a casual NES collector. I wouldn't care about value or integrity of it legitimacy. I would only care about if the game runs and looking good on my video game shelf. If i bought Little Samson and it was the only one i could find but its in bad condition. I wouldn't care how rare it is. if it looks bad, i would want to restore it. The hardware and software is the same, Just with a replaced label.
This is the DUMBEST fucking thing I've ever read.
@@evilsWa Looks like only one person agrees with your dumb ass. lol
which is truly poetic considering Pat was in an AVGN video where James destroys a gray mock Nintendo World Championships cart
Jesus they're taking this topic waaaay to seriously.
You don't seem to get it at all. It has ZERO to do with increasing the value of a game. It is about making the games in MY collection that don't have a label/have a tatty label look nice and identifiable again! Yes, even if they're cheap or common! It's MY collection, my property, for my own personal pleasure, not yours! They're bloody video games, not Picassos!
They literally said you can do what you want with your games. Please explain why that means they can't have their opinions about it....and then explain why your fucking bitch ass is such an entitled little fucking prick.
Christ, you two talk about repro labels as if they were counterfeit games.
*Counterfeit* labels make counterfeit games possible.
+Pat the NES Punk
How is a repro label (on a legit game) any different than a restored book/comic?
@TheVitaGamer ultimately it will coincide with standard practice for comics and coins. And the label will be treated either like a cover or surface. Those play huge valuation markers in both of those respective fields. If a comic has it's cover replaced it becomes essentially worthless. Same with restoring the surface of an old coin. Both basically revert to scrap prices. Since metals have a recycle value greater than paper your less bad in coins than comics.
No matter how you say you feel about the current value, you know when you sell it on you will want the most return on your initial investment. A cartridge with even only a partial original label will still be valued considerably over that of one with a fake label. It doesn't matter how close it looks. It is either original or fake. Those are the only two categories that exist in the valuation game.
By all means do whatever you like with your property. But if you ever plan to reconcile some of your investment back when you relieve yourself of them you might want to just leave those bad condition labels alone. It's not like it has any effect on how the game operates.
Exactly this! I know I'm late to the party but this video is a lot of jibberish. Doesn't make sense.
It's your property, do as you wish...*however* if you're selling it, full disclosure is a must.
SO LONG as the game contained in the cart is indeed the game that the label says it is I am 100% okay with a Repro label. To me all that matters is the CONTENTS of the games...that is why I collect games. These are not comic books where every time you open it you can damage it and damage to the pages literally damaged the content itself.
The comic book analogy is wrong: the cartridge label is irrelevant to it's cost, the state of the actual game is the only thing that matters (that it can actually start, that it's not a buggy inaccurate reproduction, that the game only has the known bugs and no other, etc).
I would say reprinting a VHS box would be a closer comparison.
that's literally 100% untrue lol, retro game's labels are a huge determining factor in their price, why are you making shit up?
They're cheap stickers that were made for 1 cent each. Personally I find this pretty ridiculous, I've never bought a game and thought, damn, I sure hope they don't put a good sticker on this, I'm going to be so upset it's not an original, 1 cent, crappy sticker.
8-bit guy is great and if you watch the video there should be no reason to complain. hes not reselling the games, so whats the big deal?
why is VALUE even a topic of discussion if hes NOT SELLING the games?
did you finish watching? if he dies, or the games get stolen they will be sold.
Said why in the video. Even if his intention is not to sell them now, they will most likely be sold eventually.
whos to say theyll be sold when he dies? maybe theyll be passed down? who even knows if there will be a retro games market at that point? its his shit let the man do what he wants.
im sorry ian works in a games store and has to deal with this sort of crap but thats not 8-bit guys problem.
"Wow!!!! A sticker to me means more to me than the game itself!!"
Look, i get it, I'm a collector of tons of stuff too. But we're talking about stickers, for fuck sake.
Not everyone collects videogames because of the value, some people just want their games to look nice
Someone missed the point of the video. I don't want fake labels on my games.
>Someone uses a printer
>Collectors use their mind
seriously, get over yourself, check what you buy, dry your tears
(and hey, i have a complete conquer 64, complete misadventures of tron bonne, i'm a collector, why aren't they sealed anymore? because i played them, that's why i bought them, gaming is about gaming, otherwise you're better off collecting stamps or plates or pennies)
Bullshit you have a complete Conker 64. If you did, you'd actually have enough respect for the game to spell it right.
Isn't the retro gaming thing about PLAYING games?
Professor Mercury No, from what I've gathered it's about collecting games and eventually sell them all for a big payout
that is only one aspect
No its all about MONEY. MONEY MONEY MONEY. He just wanted it to look good on the shelf not to sell it. Wait...sell it...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. Its a three dollar game. Did you say dollar...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY. MAybe we should play the games and not worry about a FUCKING sticker. MONEY MONEY MONEY !!!!
If you are only into playing the games, emulation is a cheaper and better choice imo. If you are into real original media, why would you use counterfeits over the real authentic ones?
The way I see it, there are 3 main categories:
1. Retro gamers that don't care about how they play the games, as long they can and do play them.
2. Retro game collectors that may play the games, but also do things like hoard multiple copies of a rare game just for the sake of hoarding it thinking it will turn them into Scrooge McDuck.
3. People such as myself that for the most part only collect what I have interest in playing.
8-bit guy even stated that this was for his own collection.
It's a topic about the larger issue, not just what one person does with their games.
I'm sure all those fake games people have bought from Gamestop's online store were "just for my own collection" too
he will die. and then what?
Mana C he actually made the labels and didnt do an exact copy of them. Anyone who cares about label quality would know that they were not the real ones.
They look the same and and its original hardware inside. What is the problem?
Okay. I'll just wait for a copy of Pitfall and/or any Activision VCS game with a good condition original label to pop up.
*waits
*waits
*waits
*dead
Pitfall is almost as common of an atari game as Combat.
So what I take from this is you guys didn't watch or listen to 8bitguy's video.
When he created both labels from scratch
When he said he had no intention to sell the game
When he said it's purely for his own use
When he used his home printer
When he used *clear tape* to cover the printer paper
Y'all are raking this guy over the coals and saying his video's a problem but you DIDN'T WATCH IT.
Seriously, try watching a video before griping about what this poor guy did.
I watch both Pat and 8-Bit regularly. Pat is ALWAYS a bit brash in his casts. I can understand his view as I'm very similar in classic movie collecting. However, I'd have generalized it more regarding the problem. I have ALSO done what 8-Bit Guy, Dave, has done and relabeled some of the movies I've received. Granted, mine are usually duplicates, and the covers & jackets I've relabeled are in horrible condition. Yet, I'm happy that I did it. I won't sell these as if they had authentic labeling, and my reproductions are noticeably not authentic. I would say, if you're going to make a comment on a youtuber's video like this, invite them in for discussion. In fact, "I challenge you to invite the 8-Bit Guy to a podcast", even if by phone. You both might find HUGE benefit in this. If anyone else thinks this is a fair idea and challenges Pat to invite The 8-Bit Guy to a podcast, throw up a like to this comment.
When David Murray (The 8-Bit Guy) made the restoration video of the two game labels, I knew that it would end up being discussed in this podcast. That being said, while you have the right to criticize fraudulent sellers who are selling counterfeits into the collecting community, you don't really have the right to criticize David for restoring his personal property.
Now, I've seen your responses to other commenters that "It's a topic about the larger issue, not just what one person does with their games", which is a fine sentiment, but why is that a response to David Murray and his tutorial on how he repaired his damaged labels? It's almost as if you are implying that David is personally teaching scammers how to counterfeit NES/Atari labels which would be a gross misrepresentation of his video. Counterfeiting has been around long before David's video; and far more effective ways of counterfeiting at that.
I don't doubt that you watched the video, therefore you will know that he photoshopped the two labels in question - meaning that any store that sells retro games should easily be able to spot the non-genuine labels if they were ever released into the wild. I really don't like the vapid rhetoric that plagues the comments section on this video where some of your audience are gambling that "when David dies" his games could be sold to the public for full price. And? That is the nature of 2nd hand trading. Quite frankly it is the buyer's responsibility to thoroughly inspect the goods that they are purchasing. As you say, 96% of people may not care, but those 4% who do care will probably be armed with the skills to detect that David's WrestleMania and Pitfall don't have genuine labels.
Pre-emptively, obviously you cannot thoroughly inspect an item if it is on sale on something like eBay, but you always have the right to return the item if you believe that it doesn't meet your standards. After all, we are talking about a bit of sticky printed paper stuck to a plastic box that houses a game chip. Honestly, the real value in video games is the playable content of the game - not the pretty packaging. It is a false equivalence to compare video game collecting to comic book collecting as the comic itself holds the value.
Additionally, even if scammers did end up using David's techniques to restore labels to increase the value of their goods specifically to dupe their sellers, then that simply has nothing to do with David himself. David created a video detailing how he restored his property - it is not his responsibility when other people emulate his methods for nefarious purposes.
"Quite frankly it is the buyer's responsibility to thoroughly inspect the goods that they are purchasing." No, it is the seller's responsibility to be ethical and not a piece of shit. You'd rather excuse counterfeiting and not hold sellers responsible. HUGE agree to disagree.
Whoa whoa whoa. I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth there, Pat. Of course sellers have a responsibility to be ethical. EVERYBODY has a responsibility to be ethical. The extract quote you took from my reply is correct; buyers do have a level of responsibility to investigate what they are buying. Especially in a 2nd hand market! That said, I would absolutely advocate that sellers need to be ethical. All sellers must be held accountable for the goods that they are selling. I wasn't making the point that responsibility lies entirely with one party or the other; responsibility here must be tandem because of the nature of the hobby.
However: Why is that relevant here? I spoke specifically about David Murray (The 8-Bit Guy). He isn't doing anything unethical. He simply restored his property and uploaded a video about how he did it. That is not me making excuses for counterfeiting in the slightest. I'll just outright say it now that I do not condone fraudulant counterfeiting. I agree with you that sellers who do counterfeit are indeed pieces of shit.
David Murray was neither counterfeiting nor was he selling his cartridges. The entire reason behind my comment was to ascertain why you would even bring David in to the discussion at all. You make legitimate criticism against scumbag sellers who actively attempt to rip people off, but that is certainly not the case when it comes to David's channel or practises.
What are we disagreeing about exactly? BTW, long time subscriber, love the content. Thanks for engaging.
You failed to understand his point, it's not about David at all, he was used for context, it's all about the bigger picture.
I've already directly quoted Pat when he said this was about the "larger" issue; I did not need you to parrot that, Warrax. This isn't about David? Gee, the whole segment is only about David/8-Bit Guy so that's a pretty big plot twist! If this was only about context then why use David at all? There are any number of eBay sellers who create counterfeit labels with the intentions to reap fradulant profit whom Pat could have used to more accurately contextualise a point about a large issue of repro labels.
I don't think I've "failed" to understand Pat's point because I'm not sure he had one in the first place when it comes to the issue of David Marray. Of course Pat is 100% correct when he calls out the issues of counterfeit labels and pirated cartridges; but I fail to see what any of that has to do with The 8-Bit Guy. Even using him for "context" doesn't really make sense. Focus your attention on people who deserve to be called out and leave innocent RUclipsrs out of this - that's all I'm saying.
He already calls out people that deserve to be called out in the Scumbag seller of the week moment. About 8bit guy, you assume drama when there is none, the context you fail to understand is repro label on low value games and his video is a good example of that so it was used so people understand the point but most of you didn't and now think he's attacking him personally instead, he even mention all of this already in this video but people still get pissed and annoyed. You maybe not agree, that's fine but that's no reasons to think he's attacking him.
Its common knowledge the value is going to go down but if you got a game with a label missing or ripped to shit. Its going to get to a point where eventually things are going to have to be replaced. Also not every one wants to resale their collection
it's not repro, it's restoration, and you bring up comics, you know that comics with restorations that have been graded, which TELLS you it's restored, still go for $1000's right? you guys are showing that you're into collecting for money or bragging, not for playing
There's certainly some massive over reaction here. David (The 8-bit Guy) focuses on restorations in many (most?) of his videos and they server as a education for many that either didn't grow up with the technology, didn't have exposure to the inner workings of the technology and for those who have no idea where to start. His videos are generally awesome in the same way that the Green Brothers (Hank and John Green) videos are awesome for educational purposes.
As far as restoration itself goes: We really need to take a step back and think about where the market is today. There's a lot of value in something that was kept pristine from the day it was born especially as it approaches 30, 40 and 50 years old. There's also, arguably more value in understanding the tools and techniques to restore items from our past.
With the age of classic and console games hitting significant ages where parts fail and need to be replaced; we're hitting a need to discover the art of restoration if we want to keep these items in good condition for the future.
By the same token, Ian no doubt does pin restorations or pin replacements for Nintendo consoles that come into Luna. By the very same token, Ian has made the same blasphemous act he's proclaiming David did. He fixed something that was broke to preserve it for the future and then will sell it; given, more readily then David did or will.
I think many more gamers appreciate a fully in tact game then the collectors who want the original. More gamers want to have something cool rather then pay for the rarity of it.
Really, there's a market for both; but I certainly don't think Pat's immediate kneejerk "Well its worth only half" flies here. I won't deny its worth less, but its certainly not that much of a price cut. I think the market needs to decide what its willing to pay; but fairly, I think reproduction labels certainly do need to be known.
The *ONLY* problem I have with reproduciton labels is someone trying to pass it off as the original.
Man collectors are bloody strange. I mean the value should not sit in the label of a game it should be the actual bloody game and that the box is with it. It's just a bloody label is just a pice if paper that tells you what game it is i would not mind that an expensive game has a nice label and the correct label for the game be it the original or a new!one because the old was broken or what not.
Man collector are like rich people so damn snobby about a pice of bloody paper.
Right? it's like the label on the outside will somehow effect the way the game runs inside the cart....
Yeah agreed im not saying that to be an ass towards collectors but there need to be some reality towards the whole thing I mean I would not pay 300 dollar for a game because it has a label or not if they game was super rear and I love said game I would pay does 300 dollar even if the label was gone as long as it was the real game. I can agree that printing a flint stone label and put it on a Super Mario duck hunt game to try to make cash on it that wrong that´s lying.
I can understand what pat said about comics if the front page is gone the comic is broken but a label that is gone will not affect if I can play the game or not.
If it was about the games, why own an original in the first place? Emulation is cheaper and easier today? If I want an original its because of authenticity, not because its a cheap fake. If its about the games, why even bother to make it "look nice"?
Yes but the Label does not make the ga,e orginal it just tell people this is the game you will play and has nothing to do with if it´s a new or old label.
You're sort of arguing that art collectors are strange for not buying replica paintings or prints over the real thing? Yes for non-collectors the whole world of collecting might seem strange, but at least with art you know that a fake Picasso will be spotted easily. Not so much with a rare complete boxed Space Taxi for C64 that can easily fetch $500 on ebay. Naturally the only difference the value which brings rare art into a whole different ballgame (and the whole authenticity police over it), which again lowers the bar for any John Doe with a printer to attempt to fake a box, manual, inlay or label to make more money from selling it. As I mention in other posts, if the DIY achievement was the motivation, why not just mark the repro stuff with your own logo and that way satisfy yourself as well as the collecting community?
I have made some repro labels, and replaced the jewel cases, for some of my games. They weren't valuable games but they are mine from when I was a child, I have a sentimental attachment to them. It felt good trying to breath some life back into my beloved games. I'm not just going to buy a new one with a better label because then it wont be my childhood game. You guys are worrying about your bottom line as a shelf collector and retro game re-seller and applying it to everyone. It comes off as pretty elitist and I feel a lot of people agree with me.
Agreed very much so, it's like if you have a CD with a cd case that is cracked and broke, nothing wrong with getting a new jewel case for it.
This video deserves every bit of the backlash it received. Glad this blew up in your faces honestly, it might not have been the intent but this was super petty. 8-Bit Guy is cool as shit, you probably could have emailed him and discretely settled your concern if it was this serious but instead you tried to make a public parade out of it.
Think about the shit you both said. Maybe someone should make a podcast episode about how you guys don't have your games stored in a nuclear-safe vault so that when WWIII happens they can scavenge your dead belongings still intact and playable.
Slow day at the office, I guess.
Go for it Jay. Let me know how it works out! :)
8-bit guy said since those are his cartridges, he can do whatever he wants with it.
The comic book comparison is terrible. Comic books as a media are defined by tehir visual representation on paper, videogames are not. It's ok if you're against repro labels, but don't make it sound like it's the same thing, a comic book cover is part of the work, a video game label is just part of the presentation, big diference.
Leave it to Pat and Ian to cry about people doing what they want with their own cartridges. I guess having your games look good and you enjoying that is of secondary importance to the value they hold on the collectors market...?
Damn son... you just hit bull's eye.
He didnt use an exact copy to make the labels, so there is no reason to write "reproduction Label" anywhere on the label. Anyone who gives enough of a shit to worry about the condition of the labels would be able to tell they arent real.
I think the problem for me is the games weren't reproduction carts; they were original carts with new labels, and while close, not so close an expert couldn't tell. I honestly don't see the problem. As you say, there's an "accepted level of behavior" when restoring old pinball machines and old cars - maybe the problem is video game collectors not accepting restorations, not in printing a new label over something that's degraded.
Game collectors are worst thing in video gaming culture. You only care about the value of a game and not the game. I wish everyone relabels their games if the label is bad. It's a video game not the holy grail
Actually, that would only make games with good labels worth more. Game collectors are going to exist whether you think they are ruining the hobby or not.
It's supply and demand, while some of it has been inflated by some people, for many games there is a lot of demand and limited carts of it in existence so it commands a higher price.
Would you sell a Zelda OOT for $5?
Personally, for the most part, I don't care to much about condition if the price is good enough but some games, I got a Moonwalker with a torn off label for like $10 a while ago, but for some games like Super Metorid I'd like a nice copy.
Well digital games don't have rarity because digital files don't have a limited stock and can just be duplicated (also Zelda OOT is $10 on VC on the Wii)
Honestly if you are not willing to pay market value, you can wine all you want but 'too bad' as there are people willing to pay more, that's market value. it's what also keeps Madden games at a value of 'worthless' because no one is willing to pay more than a few cents, if even. If a game is overpriced it will just never sell, forcing the seller to lower the price to something it will sell at. Like if a store put OOT at $500.
Hell, personally my cap on used games is in the $30-60 range depending on the title (I'd pay more for something Like Mario RPG or something, but on average if it goes over $30 I'd probably just emulate it if I can). I'd love to own Earthboud but I'd personally never pay over $100 on a game cart. Sucks for me. There are enough people willing too that the game jumped to that price.
It's economics, supply and demand.
There is nothing special. Correct. However, the fact that many people wish to collect these hunks of plastic gives them value. Same with coins, stamps, comic books, etc. Supply and demand (and yes, some manipulation) gives them value.
The worst part about this type of collecting is the focus on the monetary value alone without considering the context of the object which, from a historical point of view, is much more valuable than the object alone.
8-bit guy documented the project ADDING to the history and context of these items. It has ADDED value to it, perhaps not for the scumbag collectors out there, but they are irrelevant.
If a game, or any vintage item, is damaged it should be restored to preserve a piece of history...
If you collect and want everything to be original and perfect... some day it will be gone.
If a game costs 600 dollars take your time and inspect it closely.
I don’t care if my 5 buck super mario have a reproduction label as long it works.
like it or not, people can do whatever they want to their own games.
besides, the labels were in really poor shape on those games, and he just wanted them to look better in his personal collection.
He should mark them as reproduction labels, and it's not even close. Anything else is basically fraud.
He didnt even use an exact copy of the labels, so whats the sense in "reproduction label" on there if it doesnt look like the original in the first place?
Don't worry Pat, if I die after I repro label my Jaws and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde carts, I will leave them to you in my will so I will not flood the market. I will also include my Do Not Disturb hotel sign collection to Ian because he is ok with me. Thanks buddy!
fuck this, its his personal collection, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it, the only point you have is if he trys to resell it and doesnt disclose that he recreated the label.
Thinking you went way overboard with this. 8bit guy made it clear that his intent was to make his collection look more presentable. He's not doing it to make a buck off a sucker somewhere
Pat and Ian didn't accuse 8-bit guy of doing that. They were just defending those who want to preserve history and pointing out that it isn't people like 8-bit guy that are the problem, but the people using his methods of reproducing labels to profit from.
He is going to die. Then what?
"ruin the integrity of a long Time RUclipsr" Hyperbole much? Pat said he liked his content. Not surprising, you're in every thread giving your 2 cents. The "drama" comments are projection, surely?
You guys see drama when there's none and totally fail to understand Pat's point. It's about the bigger picture, not 8bit guy.
Bigger picture of what? The game looked like shit anyways, it was a cheap game, and he just wanted to make it a new label for himself, and perhaps he is the type that likes to be crafty so he did that instead of just buying another one for 5 bucks on ebay. Also "The collector community" yea well you guys have ruined the market for us people who just want to play these games, the flea markets and especially thrift stores have dried up alot in the past year. And this is why people are turning to other ways to play old games than deal with the bs.
I feel it's like putting repro lables on my transformers. I don't care as long as they look nice.
Tell them to arrest his corpse lol
Transformer stickers are the worst, they weren't made to last 3 decades hahaha, for sure.
So what, was he just supposed to leave that Wrestlemania label completely trashed?
The "retro game community" has lost the plot. These video games are to be played and enjoyed, it shouldn't have anything to do with the value. The only people that care about this are people that put a huge investment into it and want to be able to cash out someday. I'm personally not paying some guy that thinks he has a gold mine $600 for a cartridge I can play for free.
"These video games are to be played and enjoyed" is an argument that has nothing to do with counterfeit labels. By your logic then, it shouldn't matter what your games actually look nice or not, or even if you emulate or not. And not every video game collector is looking to "cash out." Most of us are not.
It seems relevant to me when people are bringing up the value of them, as though the intent is to have a collector's value rather than playing a game for the fun of it. Yes, you can do both, but let's not pretend people don't have a personal interest in keeping the value of these games high because they spent way more than they're worth. It goes both ways, by your logic, if the games in your collection are nice and the goal isn't to cash out, then it shouldn't matter what someone else does with their own copy.
An individual is free to replace a label on their game if they so desire. If they're doing it for dishonest purposes such as to sell and misrepresent a cartridge entirely or act as though it's an original label, then I believe that's wrong. There's not much you can do about that aside from educate people as best as you can so they know the difference between real and repro. However, I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what someone does with their own personal collection just because it might "ruin" some value a bunch of greedy resellers placed on it.
I collect based off of quality. Not rarity. Every time I hear the words "uncommon games" or "rare games" I roll my eyes.
I think you just described the difference between gamers and collectors. There's really nothing wrong with being either or both, but this discussion is clearly about collecting. If you don't want to collect, cool.
Justin, I don't think that's necessarily the case. For instance, Pat and Ian have both said that game-collecting with profit as an endgame is pointless. And these are fairly serious collectors - maybe not Ian, but definitely Pat. You can see his gigantic set of cartridges in every video. Some people are into collecting purely for its own sake, and many of them (most? probably) realize that at best, they might make a little bit of money many years later. If they think they're gonna pay off their kids' college through cartridges, well, that's silly.
Very soon I will be restoring old games, but if the label is in bad shape we need to put new one, it's all about bringing back to life so it can be around for many generations to come. Thank you.
An easy fix that would appease both sides of this issue is to print in the corner of a replacement label: "reproduction label" in legible red letters. It still looks nice but it lets everyone know its condition. I see no issue in wanting your collection to look physically nice (no water damaged or moth eaten labels) and sometimes it really isn't about the money or just going out and buying another one just for a better label. If I threw out everything that I owned that was broken or cosmetically damaged and bought a replacement instead of learning how to fix it and having fun in the process then my wallet would be much emptier and I would be a very boring person.
Not only did that bite guy had the audacity to brake copy right but he had the nerve to say he will do it to rare games and he will sell them off like if its nothing!
I think it’s fine as long as the circuit board and case is authentic. If the replacement label is completely indistinguishable down to the type of adhesive used. I only say this because it’s not a comic. Unlike comics I doubt the future of retro gaming will continue for future generations. The nostalgia aspect just won’t be there for those who didn’t grow up with CRT TVs. It’s already becoming increasingly rare for people to collect Atari games. Soon CRT TVs won’t work and parts will become increasingly hard to find. Playing NES Zapper games will be nonexistent. TVs with AV ports will be gone eventually as well. The value of these things are high now but when GenX Xennials and millennials are gone so is this market. There might be some fringe collectors but they won’t be playing these things, there just won’t be a way to.
I think if you do it for your own satisfaction and not for deception than it's fine. The moment you try to trade or sell without disclosing the label is a reproduction than the problems start.
the hardware itself is what matters, not the label. i fully support the 8 bit guy
Did you watch the whole video? Because he clearly says at the end that it is probably worth less because of the time he put into it when he could just buy another one. He only did it to see how it would turn out. You both are acting so hostile over something that ultimately could not matter, because yes, the coin comparison is apt unlike the comic book one Pat and Ian. A comic book is read and a video game is played, comics arent interactive so changing the cover could also change the pages inside, if you change a label on a game, the game is still the exact same product
I don't have a problem at all with repro labels. As long as they are clearly marked. Anyone who is a responsible member of the community would have them marked. Anyone else only wants a fake label to scam someone else.
Unless you don't have any intention of selling them to people, in which case you have no obligation to care what anyone else thinks. Even then, David's a good guy and if really wanted to try to make a profit on his $3 juink cartridge I'm sure he'd tell the buyer the label is replaced.
Say you have the most rare one of a kind retro game cart, however the label is completely gone except for a small corner of white from under the original printed label, would you leave it be? Leaving the unrecognizable part of the label?
You guys changed my mind. I saw 8-bit guys vid when it came out and saw no issue in him relabeling a game that was his to do with as he pleased. At first I thought you guys were kinda overboard with the "NO RELABELS" thing but at the end, I understood that any relabled game COULD reenter the market. I can now understand the desire to never want anyone to relabel because of this. 8-bit guy of course meant no harm but he didn't see things as you guy do. And as I now do. RETRO ON!!!
In my book, the only alteration to a cartridge that should be looked down on, is one that alters the ROM. Anything less than that is nonsense. And for the group of people who simultaneously argue that "if the market will buy [game] for 100 dollars, it's worth 100 dollars" but simultaneously saying "it's stupid that people are selling repro labelled games for 100 dollars"...that logic works both ways.
(Not talking about you in particular Pat, but I feel like a mention-worthy size of people having babies over this are retirement fund collectors)
So... I understand the value of keeping a label legit, but... I have a Super Mario Kart cartridge with a busted label, I saw his video and thought "hmm, maybe I should do that to my poor old cart.", but if it goes by your point of view, it would be more like "Hm, I have this my busted, almost irreconcilable SMK label, I could fix it myself and give my childhood cart some love and care, so it will look shiny and new again... or I should just leave it looking like garbage for 50+ more years until someone sells it as a useless relic of the last century (because I for sure as hell won't sell that cart while I'm alive and sane, and after so long time it won't work as a game, just as a decoration), so it will be legit."
Sure the pitfall cart 8bitguy restored wasn't in such a bad shape, I wouldn't have gone that far to restore it, but the wrestlemania game was, and if you can't even almost tell what the game is, why not just fix it? If you keep it busted it wont have any value anyway. If you end up selling it, of course it needs to be disclaimed, but you cant really say "restoring labels is ALWAYS bad" just because a handful of scumbags will use it to make money off collectors that were fooled by an excellent restoration or just by being careless... It's like blaming the existence of grenades on the guy that discovered gunpowder
Games that sold over a million copies are demanding prices of $100+. That is insane. I welcome repros.
Um....8 bit guy created the images on the label himself, anyone who looks at it for 5 seconds can see it's not the real deal. Did anyone else watch the actual video they're talking about?
Tactical Hotdog didn't need to because I realized really fast they are just whining. How greedy for money are these two? Sheesh
As long as the 8-Bit Guy doesn't try to sell these, and if he does sell them, he'll sell them far under their price and state that they're reproduction labels, he can do what he wants with his purchased property.
But I do wish he talked more about the issues with doing this and acknowledged some people's concerns about this.
8 Bit guy is going to die. Do people not realize this?
Guess how many fucks he's going to give when he's dead.
How do you guys feel about rom chip transplants? Same mainboard from a donor cart with original rom chips from the non working rare title and original casing. The only thing swapped out is the same part used in a different game. To me that is less of a repro and more of a repair. What do you think? Where is the line between preservation of the game and reproduction of the game?
8-bit Guy was only making them for his own use. Nothing wrong with that. He is not reselling them. No harm done.
8 bit guy did this for something in his own collection. He bought it. He can do whatever he wants with it. Hes not trying to resell it.. Hes noy trying to pawn it off as somethimg its not. If asked im sure he would openly tell you its a remake label. Hes not trying to fool anyone. MAking a You Tube video about it would be a bad way to hide it. Everyone needs to stop beeing butthurt and let it go.
If you can't tell if the label is original or not, then it shouldn't be an issue. Original board should be what matters most, IMO.
Its video game collecting right? not video game label collecting, unless I've been horribly wrong all this time
Exactly. If I find a copy of... I don't know.. NBA Jam. And the label is half ripped up. I'm going to buy a new label for it. I want it to look nice, not be a blot in my collection.
I would *love* to see Pat, Ian and David (the 8-bit guy) discuss this together.
So what, I can't put a Chrono Trigger sticker on my copy of Combat for the Atari 2600?
gusbaker4u Combat.
no, Combat...Combat...
This is such a stupid comment.
So close...
Dude, this reminded me of forth grade in 1985 trading Commando Raid for Kaboom on 2600 and getting Pac-Man instead because he swapped the chips inside without messing up the label. This shit been happening for decades and needs to stop.
I think everybody is missing one point or another. Pat and Ian aren't just talking about the 8-Bit guy himself, individually, for potentially selling or losing these carts. They're attacking the idea of making reproduction labels in general, without any indication, because they can harm the credibility of sellers who distribute them unknowingly. Whether or not you think games SHOULD have value is irrelevant, because the cat's already out of the bag if you haven't noticed. They bring the 8-Bit guy into the discussion as an example of a RUclipsr that may influence his audience to also create reproductions in significant volume.
butt hurt much? This DOESN'T affect you. If you're butthurt about repro labels, don't buy/trade for them. Managing a game store or being a collector doesn't give you the right to have a say about what somebody else does with his games and youtube channel. He could have half a BILLION subscribers and it still wouldn't matter.
Bashing a fellow RUclips creator and not even linking the video in question so others can check it out and form their own opinion? That’s pretty lame.
(I know it’s been two years since this happened, but I just had to say something)
CUPodcast started out as a great and fun podcast and you're taking it to drama ville. Stop being drama queens and stop antagonizing other youtubers.
I'm planning on relabeling my MK 64 cart because the label is destroyed. I don't see what's the problem.
I saw that video and figured it wasn't going to pass without controversy
What if you just want your fucking games to look nice?????
Collectors always talk about preservation. I guess that means, "Preservation, but only if the label is original, and pretty."
I collect, and I'm guilty of disregarding a game if I see that the label is mostly damaged. Makes me not want to get it. Regardless if the game plays perfectly or not. I imagine most people do the same.
Because of this behavior, by collectors, an otherwise perfectly functional game goes to the landfill because it's label is ugly.
If it works, and it's a legitimate physical copy, why not help preserve it instead of allowing it to someday be thrown away?
i don't understand. we don't play lables. games are to be played. comics are to be looked at.
I admittedly have a fake label for my copy of Kirby 64. When I originally got the game, it was in awful condition, I DID get it for $2. It is slightly different, it says "Unofficial Nintendo Seal of Quality" on the label. I personally don't care about authenticity, I just want my games to look nice, but if I were to ever resell the game (which I won't) I would definitely be honest about it.
On a side note should we stop using retrobrite? Isnt that making the game system look like its in better condition?
I love gaming, I would love to collect as many games as others here and elsewhere do but I also find the hate over this to be ridiculous. Sorry but people knew how to do this way before 8-bit Guy made the video. We live in an age of information being at our fingertips. The info on how to make a label is everywhere outside of RUclips if you look. If you are THAT financially invested in the payout of your games collection, you need to take a step back and realize you don't own an original Mona Lisa and maybe invest in stocks. Games are to be enjoyed and played. Leave the perfect condition stuff to gaming museums and archives to sort out and deal with.
You guys are flogs. Fair Dinkum, The 8 bit guy states that he's doing it because he wants to. He's not doing it to make money. He mentions that he could have bought a new cartridge on ebay for $5. Its a computer game, not an antique from the 1800's.
Yet...dipshit. See....antiques from the 1800s weren't valuable at the time either. They became antiques because 200 years past. So in 200 years, fuck face, video games will be antiques from 200 years ago....and they'll be valuable like said 1800s antique. Hell some are already worth more. Fucking stupid point. "Hey these video games ain't as old as some other things that are old. That means they aren't the same! Does it make me smart for saying that? No? Fuck."
That's you. That's what you sound like.
Sorry I really don't care how much this inconveniences retro game shops... I own the game... I will do with it as I please.. the Idea that "one day I will die and my repo games will be sold off and inconvenience the hobby" is a stupid slippery slope that can be applied to any object that could possibly be collected. If your issue is "well now they know how to print off stickers", well, guess what, people knew how to do before the 8-bit guy video. Love your videos and podcast.... but this really is just 2 guys complaining about something that they can't change.
Just imagine he burning the cartridge. I wish he did. What would you do? Cry?
I'm a huge fan of Pat and Ian. I'm also a fan of The 8 Bit Guy. I can appreciate where Pat and Ian are coming from as they are so passionate about video game preservation. However David was simply showing his viewers how to restore a personal collection, not resell. To be fair they were low value, mass produce games. In my opinion, restoring a personal collection is fine. I would have much more fun and feel a sense of accomplishment restoring my personal cartridge collection rather then replacing for a worthless like for like.
I get it though, Ian and Pat are talking about longevity and scumbags who are looking to resell.
Repro labels on original game carts = classic comic book restoration.
I'm a toy collector and have been for over 20 years. We deal with the same thing with re-carded, re-bubbled and re-stickers toys. Whether it be a re-stickered G.I. Joe vehicle or a re-carded vintage Kenner Star Wars figure.
A while back I PURPOSELY bought a lower grade, but great looking, example of a AFA graded Star Wars & G.I. Joe figure. Only because I knew the odds of an authentic historical item being at or near 100%. Even if I loathe the idea of it being slabbed and untouchable. Yes, I could crack them open, but if I ever need to resell, it hurts my ability to do so.
The bottom line is though, technology and greed are guaranteed to ruin this aspect of collecting. Regardless of the trumped up "experts" of graded items, no one will be able to tell at some point. As we all know, it's happening now already.
When confidence erodes and there's no grading system, or faith in one, then authenticity will be dead. Premium pricing will be dead, and the community as a whole will lose out.
Unfortunately this is the result of the ease of which you can buy rare items online from around the world, and the popularity of some of these things.
How do you feel about arcade machine restorations? It's a game, but also a machine. There is a far smaller scale for sure. But do you feel one should buy side art or marquee art from another machine, or is it okay to reproduce these?
Records & tapes are the best parallel to draw. The rules are pretty much the same, and same grading scale that applies to jackets and sleeves can be applied to game packaging. Same counterfeiting concerns, etc.
JUST A THOUGHT...what if Nintendo was like "ok we will re print labels for anybody with beyond damaged labels" I wonder if that would effect it? because then it would still be legit from Nintendo
This is not just about video games, it can be applied to EVERYTHING then. Basically in any collector's mind, no matter how beat up your redline hotwheels car, your unplayable '59 sunburst les paul, your rustbucket '69 camaro with matching motor, do not do anything to it because it devalues it immediately correct? Therefore the redline can't be restored with new spectaflame, the les paul can't be restored to playable to tour with, and the '69 camaro must be left rusty and dead, even WHEN it is your own property to do with as your please, because some highly skilled person could make a restoration or reproduction so accurate it could be used to fraud someone out of money. is this correct??? Because THAT HAPPENS ALL THE DAMN TIME! CAR SHOWS! JOE BONAMASSA! Hotwheels youtube videos!! Should they all be shunned??! I'll tell the guys from restoration garage on TV they can't do it anymore because they are teaching some guy how to rip someone off with a restored car.
This is an issue for serious collectors, but not the casual person who just wants to play the game. If someone just wants a cartidge to play, they won't care. But for collector's then on principle you'd want the original label. And at that point I don't think I need to address the issue for people selling them.
I don't see the problem with repro labels. After all, if someone has a repro label on their cartridge, it'll just make the ones with a real, unmolested label worth that much more than the ones that have a repro label. Take the Liberty Eagle gold coin for example. There have been so many reproductions of the coin, that the authentic ones are often worth that much more than it's melt value. Also the Shelby Cobra classic car comes to mind. I.e. many reproductions, makes the original 1100 Shelby Cobras worth that much more, due to the fact the market has dozens more repro Shelby Cobras. Just some food for thought......
8:30 talking about pinball machines: "people are going to play that"
Do you not play video games? Do you sell games to people not expecting people to play them?
If a pinball machine has broken or worn parts it is perfectly okay to replace them, same exact thing with video games.
so what's the difference between doing a label upgrade,providing its obvious, and doing an HDMI upgrade on a NES or a backlight mod on a gameboy?
I understand the point of the 8-Bit guy perfectly as well as yours guys. If someone restores his own comic book, for own purpose... no harm on it. But if it restores it with the intention of improving it's grade for selling purposes (with a better price), shame on whoever dos that.
Ian's distaste for it as a seller is understandable, because it makes his job harder. That being said, resellers need to adapt. I teach as a job and stuff changes, paradigms shift, every couple years. If stores aren't willing to adapt to a problem (if it is such a huge problem) then newer sellers who can adapt will take their places. Just like if I don't adapt to new pedagogies I can lose my job, too. Dealing with disappointing developments comes with doing the job you love.
On a personal note, I see no problem if the person has NO intention to sell or misrepresent their collection. Yes, the odd circumstances put those people in a seller's position sometimes but that's just how it goes until, like Pat described, the community comes up with firm standards regarding condition.
There is some solace in this. Some Nes labels are just paper with a sticker backed to it, mainly early to mid early nes games so those are easier to find out if the label is fake. Harder games are the later Nes games from mid to late nintendo nes releases as they have a lamination ontop of them, all Snes games have this. Some labels are cut differently from the manufacturer as well. So it is becoming a lot harder to tell the difference
So I have an original copy of CBFD for n64 but the label has something stuck all over it and it's faded to hell, so if I were to sell it to someone looking to buy, you're saying it's worth more the way it is than if I showed them it was original and then put a new label on it?