Yeah, when everyone started to accuse the High Republic of being an SJW propaganda I was confused. Because other properties attacked fans and hid behind the you hate this excuse but as far as I'm aware none of the project lumnous have done this. It just seems like they want to bring in Diversity but still tell an interesting story.
The only question I have is, what about Yoda? If this new Jedi is the most powerful of the time, so is Yoda less powerful or do they mean she's second only to yoda like Mace was. I don't know but I'm sure they'll explain it.
The fact that fans have to assert this fact over and over in the face of vitriolic accusations from the new “creators” of Star Wars and their Twitter mob is what is wrong with this franchise. And the fact that I can say that in all seriousness and be right is damn tragic.
Brian Reed they were though. Finn has no arc, Po stayed the same, Rey got everything with no struggles, Rose did nothing... new things I loved right away were the prequels, clone wars, mandalorian and the list goes on.
@@brianreed1859 What about that? Everything new about Star Wars recently were poorly written, most notable the plot and characters of the sequel triology, who can enjoy a film with a bad writing? If you can enjoy them, seek for help
I don't not like Rey because she's female. I don't like her because she's poorly defined as a hero and never overcame a serious challenge. Every conflict she got in it's like they made her a super Jedi with no solid explanation
Kaladin Stormblessed rey isn’t even a strong character. But I do see your point. Ashoka, Padme and Leia are my favourite female characters in Star Wars. By far. Just the development of the characters and the strength they portray.
This is rlly ironic since the first time ahsoka was shown many jumped on the hating ahsoka wagon, calling her a mary sue maybe sometimes it isnt abt how good the character is or not but instead the biases people make about a character that represents smth they arent used to seeing in media?
BadFace well tbh, Ashoka wasn’t the best at first. But she really developed into a true character. Let’s also not forget when the clone wars started it wasn’t well received as a whole and Ashoka sadly fell into that. But Rey is character who suffered from bad writing -a bit like the 13th doctor- Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress but her potential was a bit wasted due to the poor writing and influence of the media. A real shame. But then again, the fandom responded well to other female lead films such as rouge one which shows the potential. The fans don’t care if it’s a man or a woman as long as the story doesn’t rely on this. If the story’s good, than the gender doesn’t matter. The same thing happened when the clone wars started, it was more of a kid’s show and it wasn’t well received. And before anyone thinks of me as some sexist and toxic Star Wars fan on the internet (which there’s a lot of them on the internet, not all but still more than we’d like) , I loved Ashoka from day 1. I was young when the clone wars started airing and really enjoyed the dynamic between Ashoka and Anakin, and as the show matured and all the characters developed, so did I. That’s why I think Ashoka and Rex had some of the best character development I’ve seen in a long time. Forgive this little rant 😂 Have a nice day everyone :D
If rey was male, she would just be luke. The issue people had with rey wasn't that she was written badly. but that she is just a female luke skywalker ripoff. Nobody likes ripoffs.
@s10055072 I agree. After The Force Awakens, if Rey was a man, I would still be wondering how he got those force powers so quickly. In the next movie, I will wonder how he was able to expertly control different ships, raise boulders like nothing, etc. In the third movie, well... I didn't bother with that since The Last Jedi was so bad.
@@narata1541 nah, she is just a ripoff of luke. Been there done that. The reason people didn't like is for the same reason people didn't like luke. Growing up i rarely heard people liking luke. Most liked han solo, darth vader, or boba fett. If you liked luke skywalker, kids would make fun of you.
@@AngelicOblivion90 If it makes you feel better saying that, go ahead. I won't be baited into arguing with someone who makes fun of people who don't like Rey as a character.
Good characters who happen to be female. Gender isn’t a behavior characteristic. That’s always forgotten during character development. Personality before Appearance
Absolutely. I write from time to time, mostly short stories up to this point. But I've been building out the details for a much longer, serialized story lately. And whenever I'm making a plot, here's what my thought process looks like, including when I decide gender. - Decide what type of story I want to tell. Sci-fi. Fantasy. Adventure. Mystery. Etc. - Decide what kind of "flavor" I want to give it... in other words, what kind of aspects do I want that story to explore. Power progression? Exploration? Cultural forces? - What "major scenes" did I imagine while deciding the first two steps? What kind of loose plot structure will naturally let me link them together in a believable way? Did I leave myself enough room to make changes as I write and find more natural developments? - What character archetypes do I need to make this story work? - How many need developed? Which is my main protagonist(s) and antagonist(s)? - What kind of cultures will these characters interact with? - Now that I know that, how can I flesh out my characters so that they have personalities that will interact with the plot, settings, and other characters in interesting ways? This is primarily personality traits built on those archetypes, including likes/dislikes and skill sets. - Now, what kind of interesting backstories can I give them that work with what I've established so far. Here is where character sex and names are determined. - Develop character appearance. - Start playing around with when characters are best introduced into the plot. - Do supplementary worldbuilding to fit in the story type, characters, and major scenes I've created. (For instance, if this is a fantasy world, develop the magic system further and codify its rules.) Do research. Flesh out world. Et cetera. - Revise and make sure things gel so far. Repeat previous steps as necessary. - Develop first scene, and then begin writing. Now, obviously, sometimes character aspects later on my list will come earlier in the development timeline. I've had a nearly fully-fledged character pop into my head at the very beginning. Sometimes it's because I've been inspired to put my own spin on a preexisting character, remade for my story. So sometimes character sex can come earlier. But usually it's in the latter third of development. Sometimes the character's sex doesn't matter, and I choose simply because one part of the story has too many of the other sex in it and it needs balanced to feel organic.
So, does anyone remember Bastilla Shan or Satele Shan? They are OBVIOUS “strong female characters” but also they were extremely well-written characters.
"Yeah but those characters struggled at times, made mistakes, and had humanizing flaws. We can't portray women as having any kind of weakness lest we be seen as sexist, safer to make all female character OP, flawless, personality-less Mary Sues"-Some corporate suit making these decisions.
BabyKrogan Exactly It’s okay to have female characters but when they’re Mary Sues there’s no point and the same with male characters. It’s not that female characters are bad it’s just that Rey is badly written and people take it out on female characters being bad. I know that’s not everyone including you guys on this chain but there are those people out there
As a woman I relate way more to Luke than Rey, her whole characterization was just all over the place with no defined goals, struggles, or other aspects that make for good writing. She's not even a good example of a FEMALE character because her gender doesn't influence her actions or anything at all - not that that's a bad thing, but if the point is to emphasize her gender you would think she wouldn't be written so generically - even her clothes are gender neutral and the closest thing I could find in canon to her being feminine was... her hair? Leia, Ahsoka, and even Padme (although more so in The Clone Wars for her) are all examples of strong female characters in Star Wars that work and pretty much anyone can relate to them I feel, even Disney has done a decent job with Sabine and Hera in Rebels. Disney should look to these characters for inspiration, instead of trying and failing to do Wonder Woman as they have with all of the female characters that have been complained about in their franchises.
This. She's just perfect at everything, with no shortcomings, no personality, she is pure awesome and perfection, the moment she steps onto a spaceship she knows how to fix it better than the guy who worked on it for half a century, the moment she falls into water she can swim, the moment she gets a lightsaber into her hand she easily beats the guy who was supposed to be the most powerfull being in the galaxy, that's boring. We can't relate to her character because she has no character, we can't feel any tension because we already know she's gonna win effortlessly anyway, and even if the movie presents something as a mistake of hers, like being caught, the movie will go out of it's way to make sure we understand that it was for the better, because how could Rey have saved Finn and Poe on the Starkiller Base if she hadn't been captured and freed herself before? She's just BORING in every way, and that has nothing to do with her gender. There's countless good female characters in Star Wars. But Rey definitely isn't one of them.
Yes, fashion changes rapidly in our world and it's not hard to imagine it changes quickly in that world as well. HOWEVER, you know whose clothing hasn't changed much in thousands of years? Monks
cobra312004 I do see that point, and I’m by no means mindlessly supporting the high republic BUT, I think if there’s one thing that has any sort of prof that it does change quickly is the fashion, even with the jedi staying the same in other ways. It also would make sense for the jedi robes to reflect the time period they are in, it could even be a built in flaw of the order with good enough writing. that being said I still think that the time period should have been moved another couple hundred years earlier.
Exactly. These character designs belong in the Old Republic, thousands of years earlier. The Jedi Post Russan Reformation all looked like the ones from the prequel trilogy.
@dragon1193 linktoad But the thing you're missing there is that the appearance of knights changed because the weapons and armour they used and faced changed. Modern infantry look different from Napoleonic infantry because they're equipment forces them to fight differently. The Jedi haven't seen anything like that pace of change in their equipment or techniques, so they have no impetus to change their dress code.
@dragon1193 linktoad Alterations, yes. But because we're looking at a group that relies on reputation, the changes won't be that big. It's important for Jedi to be recognisable as the invincible laser sword ninja wizards of legend when they want to be, and that implies a degree of consistency which resists the kind of rapid change we see in fashion. It's also worth remembering that some of the changes in clothing we've seen over the past 200 years or so of our own history are driven by a wide variety of factors beyond mere fashion - power looms in general are barely 250 years old, and the Jacquard loom 215, give or take. So much of the change experienced in the real world is due to evolving technologies, expanding economies and new visual media like photography, motion pictures, TV and the internet... the Star Wars galaxy doesn't have that pace of change throughout, so... I don't know, maybe the High Republic is looked on by the GCW era galaxy as the 'shoulder pads and leg warmers' era... We may be thinking too hard about this.
As a woman who grew up with two brothers, I always watched the “boy prominent” shows and movies. And guess what? I NEVER had a problem relating to them, because you don’t need to look like a character to be able to relate to them. If you truly believe that a woman can only relate to another woman, than your just shallow and maybe even sexist.
GHype I think you’re misinterpreting what I said. All I mean is that you can relate to a character, even if they don’t look like you. Haven’t you ever related to a character even though they were the opposite gender?
@@SeriousRereader great point! One of my all time favorite female characters that I can completely relate to is from the Movie Pitch Black. Fry has an amazing character journey going from a self server to someone that sacrifices themselves for the team at the end (spoiler lol). I can completely relate to her even though I am not female. I just use Fry as an example because I really like her arch. It doesn't matter what you look like to be able to relate to someone who doesn't look like you. Thank you for your excellent point.
The phrase “Strong female character” already kinda dismisses the character’s value. A well written character’s gender shouldn’t matter. If your character’s main draw is that they’re female, that somewhat defeats the purpose...
Precisely, a character's gender should not matter in the slightest. So why is everybody freaked out that some of these characters just HAPPEN to be female?
@@didds8869 I see you picking comments to reply to. You only came here to bait and I'm taking it to call you out. Watch the video or don't comment lmao.
@@kevinshi6500 Cheers for being the hero, dickhead. I watch every single one of Thor's videos start to finish so no need to pull that card. I just think a certain section of the fanbase is being needlessly toxic towards characters we only know a tiny bit about.
@@didds8869 The problem is that Reu was already pictured to be strong female character, to push an agenda, they were quite open about it. This wouldn't have mattered if Rey was written well, however they turned her into a Mary Sue, which is probably the stupidest think you can do if you want to create a strong female character and especially if you are openly saying this is what you did. Because of this there will be an adverse reaction with a lot of fans for the coming future when a female characters is made extremely strong or great, like now saying this female characters is the best of the best and that she is basically what a jedi should be. If Rey was well written and/or their goal was never to push an agenda with the female lead character, everything would be "fine", but they kind of ruined female strong characters for a while untill they prove they can write a good one and focus more on the story and lore, rather than the message(s) behind it.
I agree 100% Ahsoka has her own hero's journey and even some of the Sith characters like Darth Zannah has a villains hero's journey everyone has a story where they have failed and pick themselves up to make themselves better that's what makes a great character because we can all relate to that we have all failed but we all have picked ourselves up and succeeded in life that's the type of story I love to read about in love to see
@@PittsburghSonido The only people I hear saying that are A: a small minority of fringe loonies (Irrelevent) B: people who were saying it before her story had been far more fleshed out (Irrelevent now) or C: people trying to "Defend" Rey by attacking other characters. (Which makes no sense. The OT could Manos, Birdemic, and The Room, it doesn't improve the quality of the Sequels.)
At this point I completely believe the idiots at Lucasfilm literally don't care what the fans think. Because they seem to think a franchise can exist without fans.
TO BE FAIR I think this initiative has probably been around for a few years before the Star Wars fallout, and they're just kinda forced to shove this out because there's too much work done on it.
The fact of the matter is they can easily brain wash a new generation into believing this garbage agenda. I can speak from experience w my son. He doesn’t care or understand the potential damage he is suffering from these story lines. He just enjoys the space ships, robots, and action. Bottom line: I think they can create a new generation of fans easily so they don’t feel pressure to appease older fans.
@Niyaz Kaan Dağçınar If you put a completely insane ideology before literally everything else than you begin to lose touch with reality. These people believe everyone who disagrees with them is a bigot, you really think they're going to understand how to run a business? And that fans of your franchise are your customers and that your franchise can't exist without the fans? The answer is simple: They don't understand any of that.
@@ddff2815 I COMPLETELY agree... It's not US 'orders ' they're aiming at, they want our kids to buy into it... That's their main target group in my view. My exes were really getting into the originals and and the prequels ~ this sequel trilogy, if I had a choice they'd never find out about until they were 18 plus🤣
Ketsuban Solo Yeah. I agree. It will be interesting to see how this goes. If they are not selling books, what happens to this world they are wanting to create. Also, if this is agenda driven content and being set up by KK, then do we see things change if and when she retires or if this isn’t successful
Ahsoka was not a natural leader, she got people killed when she would act on her own at the beginning. That was something she actually had to learn which was why she was so relatable.
@@revpembroke3082 Yeah brain fart moment ( didnt realize they were referencing the new work being done by the high council our what ever they call themselves so 200 years prior , but in that case then the OP's point stands he would still be by far the most powerful jedi of the time .
Logically yeah he should be, Yoda should probably be even more capable than he is 200 years later, maybe less wise but fuck at 700 years of age how much wiser can you really get?😂
@@damonwade6591 Younger Yoda would probably have less Yoda humor and be even more serious? Or maybe the opposite, a lot more humor and less seriousness.
@@damonwade6591 well if baby Yoda is a baby at 50 maybe Yodas species aging is just all messed up like at 700 you are actually 30 or smth some sort of reverse dog years on drugs
The definition of "strong" is apparently also an issue. Like, Disney's Snow White? The princess who was led into the woods by a huntsman who confessed he'd been ordered by her stepmother to murder her and carve out her heart? The one who then fled into the dark woods? The one who came to terms with her situation and managed to become happy despite all that before her stepmother came to finish the job? NOPE! She's not "strong" because in the end, a _man_ had to wake her up from her slumber, and it was the dwarves who chased her stepmother and caused her to accidentally kill herself. If she was 'strong' (as defined by these types of people), she should've defeated her stepmother herself. My understanding of "strong" was that despite bad things happening, a character could find the mental fortitude to push on. Nowadays it seems to be "more powerful than anyone else".
@@muhaoai4693 Mental fortitude seems to be a staple of the old Princesses, like Snow White and Cinderella, off the top of my head. I mean, sure, they all dreamed of a Prince coming and saving them, but the thing about dreams is: they're either a fantasy or a long-term goal. You mentioned Show White coming to terms with being lost in the woods and finding a project in the Dwarves. I also add that Cinderella saw the Ball as a way to escape from her situation, if only for a single night, did everything she could to make it happen, and made sure to savor the experience. And when she got locked in her room, she basically masterminded the escape.
I looked up to Leia but had a crush on Luke. Then, when the prequels came out, i had a crush on Obi-Wan. Now i still like Obi-Wan a lot, but he's probably a very close second to Theron Shan. Theron is by far my favourite SWTOR companion and the best romance option for my female Jedi Knight. I also like Arcann a lot
Leia and Padmé also send girls the important message that they don't have to sacrifice their femininity to be strong, something a lot of adult women today still don't realize.
Actually, it seems that most female fans, regardless if they're gay or straight, have a crush on Leia and Anakin. I remember back in the day how some were raving about the scene in ROTS where Anakin was shirtless and covered in sweat lol
@Brainjock Well, he didn't butter his bread on that side, so it's even more of a lost cause than just generally having a crush on a fictional character.
Question: Why on Earth would the Jedi Council make someone impulsive a Jedi Knight? Isn't the whole thing about being a Jedi controlling your emotions? And they mention being passionate about what they do, yet that is also quite a strong emotion. Hell, in the EU a part of the Jedi Code said: "There is no passion, there is serenity". If I'm being honest these Jedi seemed to be the antithesis of the regular Jedi.
@@emberfist8347 Not to mention those promotions came during wars against Sith and many Dark Jedi, which are believed extinct during this time by the Jedi.
I remember when people hated Ahsoka back in the day bc they thought she was annoying. So much has changed since then and look how beloved she grew to be. She's one of the top tier star wars characters now.
@@bowiesensei5574 She sucked the first couple of seasons. I didn't think she was annoying, she was annoying. I still hate her but the writing for her did improve a great deal.
@@Rikalonius I actually like her being annoying. Mostly because it shows her flaws and she was a teenager so it makes sense. It also shows how much she grows later on, so at least she has devlopment lol.
@@coffeelover5598 Fair enough, but in the first season she was fighting Asajj Ventress to a standstill and holding her own against Grievous. She was a disrespectful brat and everyone still loved her for it. She was singled out by Yoda for praise and attention. Yes, she grew as a character, and as I said, she became half-way decent, which is good, but she started off every bit the Mary Sue that Rey is. But, you are right, unlike Rey, she did occasionally fail at things.
no well written female character ever needed to be advertised as "strong female"; it got to the point where it realy is a label for playing the victim card to preemtivly silence all criticism
@@patchmoulton5438 Rey I can kind of get. But Phasma? I didn't even realise she was a chick until we heard her talk. Besides, we're talking about these new jedi here. Not already established characters
Lucasfilm has no talented writers. Their minds go: "I invented a woman, she is an alien and she is brave and strong and the best at everything! I guess there is a man there too, he works for her and he is ok I guess."
I mean claudia Frey and charels soule are really good. Not to mention Timothy Zahn. Its fine to not trust Disney based off how poorly they handled the movies. But the comics and books that have come out in the past 6 years have been excellent in my opinion. And until the high republic releases i refuse to assume its sjw garbage. I need proof before I judge something. ( and no past transgressions is not proof they will fuck up these new characters)
@Lionard Kirsch - if you really want to see toxic then you should check out all the negative trolls who hate the sequels beyond common sense. There's a bunch of them
I don't care that she's a woman, but shouldn't the "best of the best" Jedi be Yoda? This whole thing sounds like fan fiction, just like the sequel trilogy
Yoda was such a badass because he was small and humble, but super wise and when he had to bust out his jedi he busted out hard. No one was fangirling over him in the jedi academy and no one needed to say he was the bestest of all, it was just obvious because he was like the old monk character.
I wouldn’t be opposed to having a female character being one of the strongest jedi in the galaxy- heck, we’ve had a good few female sith and Jedi as well as the in between. It just has to make some sort of sense. Rey, doesn’t make sense until episode nine kind of. Luke, makes sense. Anakin, makes sense. They have a backstory and they have signs of growth.
Yoda was never meant to be a badass saber wielding Jedi. That's only since the Prequel bullshit. He was always about being wise and guiding the Jedi Order, not doing backflips and fighting with a tiny light saber.
I like strong written female characters, not forced cringeworthy Mary Sues which is what alot shows and and movies lean towards. A strong female character is supposed to have flaws, weaknesses, needs guidance and help from friends or allies, is relatable, and inspires EVERYONE that they can come out on top even if things seem tough or hopeless; basically normal things that make you human. Rey is the epitome of a Mary Sue where she doesn't need help, has everything handed to her with no training required, doesn't have any weaknesses, no trials to overcome, masters everything on the first try, makes all the men around her seem inferior, and just down right God awful character development.
Retard Gaming would have been much more fitting to have said leia also changing the placement of a word dosent change the meaning of what the words mean 🤷♂️
LamsShipper 4Life he meant that we want strong characters that happened to be female (female strong characters) like ahsoka, leia etc. But what we dont want is female characters that need to be strong like every female star wars disney characeter.
I grew up with Avatar the last airbender and TCW and I love the female characters there be it Padme, Bo Katan, Ashoka, Ventress, Katara, Azula and more. I don’t like Rey but it’s not because she’s a woman.
ATLA was an amazing show with incredibly well written characters, whether male or female. Aang, Katara and Sokka had a really good growth throughtout the seasons, Toph was super cool, Azula was a total badass, and Iroh was great too, but i always had a soft spot for Zuko, his character arc was really interesting (that's probably why i like Arcann so much in SWTOR, he really reminds me of Zuko).
Ewyna I know I always loved as child and now the episodes with Zuko and uncle Iroh I loved there chemistry. I even like them more than Katara Zuko and Aang. I don’t why but since my childhood I like villains more than heroes. That’s why Ep3 and 6 are my favorites it‘s the fall and redemption of Anakin
@@ontasbulent5709 Yeah, i think it's because of their relationship that i prefer Zuko and Iroh too. Iroh is very wise, and is pretty much Zuko's father because his actual father is a real jerk, he's also Zuko's moral compass. And playing through KOTFE/ET in SWTOR, Arcann is pretty much what Zuko could've been without Iroh to guide him.
katakisLives I liked her in the beginning of TFA but later her character began for me to fall apart it was the story that pushed her not the character. In 8 was the same and in 9 it was really obvious. Another reason you probably heard 100 times she‘s way overpowered. I just think she isn’t written that well.
which sucked because i thought he did a pretty great job with what he was given. hayden's an amazing actor and the only thing that people should've been upset about was the dialogue he was given
daddylamb 69 I agree, while I absolutely hate Attack of the Clones, I do think the actors did the best with what they were given. Hayden nailed the look of Anakin it really felt like he was that character, no matter how badly written the script was, Revenge of the Sith I’d say is top 5 or 6 Star Wars movies too. And to change gears here, Hayden did not go on tv and bash the fans and call them names like other more recent movies have done I.e. Captain Marvel Ghostbusters 2016 Charlie’s Angles etc.
The SINGLE best written character in the extended universe -- in my opinion -- would be Kreia/Treya. She is complex, multilayered (cryptic as hell) and a driving force (heh) for the story of Kotor2. Oh and she's a women. But sure, there are no parts for women but sexualized, weak princess-esque types that are in need of being saved in fantasy...
@@emberfist8347 True, she did come on strong on a few (most) occasions. But at the same time, she really managed to get me thinking about stuff - not just the force - which can partly be attributed to me being immersed in the game but also to thought - provoking dialouge. I would argue, that even from 'wrong' intentions, something great can arise - in this case a well done character in Star Wars. It is even suggested, that Kreia grew to hate the Force so strongly only after her students betrayed her. So her more extreme views on how the force should end and all can be somewhat excused (she tried both light and dark and saw firsthand how both failed to capture the nature of the Force and that both may well be just puppets of its will, striving to achieve some sort of balance at all times at the expanse of whole civilizations).
The old expanded universe is better than the crap the current regime has put out despite the flaws And no I'm not going to blindly follow what some dumbass corporate buffoons tell me when they can't even competently maintain the cultural icon monolith that is Star Wars so much for their canon
Avar Kriss’ blurb makes her sound exactly like Rey: Her flaws are only positive in nature(“She tries to see the best in everything.) and she has no true drawbacks.
I disagree. Rey was kind of hot-headed and angry, which Avar doesn't sound like. Also, being too self-sacrificing can be a fault, because sometimes you just have to be mean and straight-forward to get what needs to be done done. If she's written well Avar could be an interesting character who learns to be more self-assertive, but that depends on the writers.
Earthling I think they meant that she won’t have any flaws that hinder her. Rey's conflicts never came due to her flaws and issues, which was a major problem of her character. It’s the same with Avar if she’s going to be badly written, in that her being too self-sacrificial won’t actually do her any harm nor will it make her unlikable to other characters.
@@Lazurath101 But the trademark of a mary Sue is that she is perfect in everything, the only "flas" she may have are entirely positive in nature and every "mistake" they make must turn out to be good afterwards. And Ava fits this 100%. She#s perfect, flawless, legendary, the only flaw she has is that she is nice, and i bet you the only mistakes she'll be allowed to make will turn out to be in everyone's best interest, just like Rey. Rey is perfect and flawless in everything as soon as she sees it. First time in a spaceship? Knows how to repair it better than the guy who spend half a century working on this exact ship (and illegally modifying it btw, so even going "well she knew a ship like that" would not only be a lie but also stupid since it wasn't the same ship), first time she grabs a lightsaber? Kung-Fu master able of defeating the most powerfull Sith evurr, first time in a cockpit? Ace pilot. First time beeing captured? Immediate jedi master force powers. Lives her entire life in a deser and falls into a bottomless pit of water? Of course she immediately knows how to swim. And even the TWO mistakes she made throughout the entire trilogy were actually good. She gets caught and taken to Starkiller base? Well yes but she not only frees herself and goes to save the people who came to rescue her, but she also found out this way what the weakness of the ase was and singlehandedly makes it so winning is even possible. So as it turns out, if she hadn't made that "mistake" everyone would have died. Second, trusting Kylo Ren when the are in Snokes throne room? Well of course that was just because she was just WAY TOO NICE AND KIND. And also she was right as we see in episode 9. And you'll see, Ava will be the exact same. Perfect, flawless, without weakness, character or mistakes.
Hence why I'm unsure as to how the Jedi culture can change so much and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi we have seen, can change from the noble chivalrous Jedi to the blind-to-the-force Grand Master Yoda in the Prequels. Not the best time period to choose, in my opinion.
@@peculiarpangolin4638 Yoda wasn't blind to the force in the prequels. Just because someone is a Jedi Master or Grandmaster doesn't mean they are all powerful and all seeing/omniscience. Palpatine himself was strong in the force and used the dark side to cloud everything. As a Sith, he was one of the most cunning and devious force users and was extremely patient in his planning the downfall of the Jedi Order (unlike some previous Sith lords who preferred to try and use overwhelming might or brute strength to defeat the Jedi). In Episode II, there's a scene where Yoda, Mace Windu and Obi-Wan talk about how the younger generations are acting more arrogant, more complacent, more over-confident in their abilities and not just padawans but also some older Jedi too. You see this in the same movie with Anakin in the beginning scene when they chase down the assassin, or when Anakin loses completely to Dooku who is a much more senior Jedi Master, with more experience and training.
ALwinDigital i what agree on both of your points but at the same time you have to look at this in the same stance that these are alien species not humans to us if you try to equate the amount of time it would take and learning and retaining any form of knowledge yes it comes with time but you’re talking about a Bing who literally in Canaan what is the strongest Jedi master The amount of time and the time. Not just for his species but other species that are also likely to be Jedi doesn’t equate to the amount of change needed between the years I think it’s also been stated that you have to realize the fact that you even mention Dooku who at the time was 70 years old so that means you go back to 70 years into that 200 years prior there’s only about 130 years so that means you have 130 years worth of basically story that realistically you’re able to tell what’s going on with again one of the most powerful force users in the history of the Jedi I understand and like I said I agree with your points as to how things were changing even in the prequel‘s but that was the time period in which things were changing That means that was basically the end Of everything that has led to the high republic basically the prequel’s are the end story of the high republic
@@shawngaines1117 Trying to make sense if what you're trying to say. Yes, the immediate era of Episodes I-III (prequel trilogy) would be the end of the story of the "High Republic era" (the High Republic era itself may cover a time period of roughly -900 years when it might have been the beginning or entry path towards the High Republic, the period of time when the Jedi Order believed the Sith to have become extinct, to around prequel trilogy era). The High Republic era time period would probably be the height of the entire history of the Galactic Republic and Jedi Order, before their eventual fall. The -200 year before rise of Palpatine could be the apex of the High Republic Era (after all, once a civilization reaches the apex, there is only a downhill path left.)
I love Star Wars for many reasons - and have ever since I was about 5 or 6 years old. I could relate to Luke, even though I'm a girl, because - like him - I was a small kid on a farm, who later moved to a small block on the outskirts of a small, isolated town, and I spent my days as an outcast dreaming of adventures beyond what I knew. I love(d) the Force, and it's mystery, and the whole concept of having "magical powers." Leia was my first strong female character role model. I never saw her as a supporting character. I saw her, Han, Luke, and Chewbacca as all main characters. They were a unit. The story couldn't work without them. So, for Kennedy to say girls can't relate to male characters, that's just plain stupid.
If Luke had been a girl and Leia a boy would that have mattered. I think because of the time it was made there were still too many conventions to change that. When Luke wants to rescue a beautiful princess, it is just the old fairytales. Even now I think you'd have difficult with a woman wanting to rescue a handsome prince as it is very inbuilt into our psyche. Watching films from the 50s (mainly) & other decades even though I am a heterosexual I always identified with the female character who loved the male lead and fought by his side only for him to end up with the willful princess (kind of the reverse of Ducky in Pretty in Pink if I have my 80s movies right). That character would often conveniently die. It was so unfair. Maybe that's just me.
Star wars has one of my favourite female characters: Sabine, Hera, Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Mara Jade, Asajj Ventress, (even Darth Revan can be considert female in the original game) all of them are great written characters with distinct personality traits. They kick ass and look good while doing it. But we also see them strugle, fail and grow as a characters making them engaging and relatable. That's why I didn't like Rey, she seems a static character throut the whole trilogy when you compare her to Luke or Anakin. She barely strugles and rarely loses and even her kick ass moments are out shined by other characters because they face opponents that are much more powerful then them and they don't have a plot armor to bale them out. (look at Force Awakens or Rise of Skywalker she just has to close her eyes for a moment and suddenly BOOM a power boost)
One of my favourite Sith is actually female. I absolutely love Darth Zannah. (She is from the Darth bane trilogy). To be honest I can't say that she's my favourite Sith of all time considering that there are a lot of Sith but she's definitely my favourite character between 1000bby and 32bby.
First off, it there was a lot of stigma about boys liking these shows when I was growing up as well. Properties like Star Wars and Marvel and the like are only just gaining wide acceptance today. Twenty years ago, you were a geek or a nerd. and were bullied for being one But honestly, you want to compare and contrast what is wrong with this so called SJW movement and how women are portrayed, the best example is in the Trek universe, mainly Cathrine Janeway and Michael Burnham. Janeway was an excellent character, the first female lead of a trek show, the a-typical starfleet captain stuck on an impossible mission. Yet she was flawed. She could be obsessive, she was frequently wrong, she could be aggressive, and often cared so much more about her own ship, she lead to the destruction of possibly several words. Burnham...always right, never wrong, if anyone says something against her they are ether the bad guy or about to die. She has a bigger voice on her ship than the captain and everyone likes her, basically the classic Mary Sue. Well, imagine how I felt when an article about Burnham's show came out praising her and saying that there had never been a female Trek lead and had been as well written as she. Granted, the writing for Voyager was uneven, but it was bull. That's what Rey is. She's hyper perfect. She learns her powers over night having only just learned Jedi even existed, she doesn't struggle and nearly never made mistakes. And if she does, they are always someone else's fault. Compared that to Asoka or Jaina, or even Leia. I mean, my favorite Asoka episode is when she is captured and forced to fight on that deserted planet and really learns what it means to be a Jedi (I also hate watching it, its pretty emotional). But it makes her a lot more developed than perfect Rey whose biggest moment of development is learning she is Palatine's...granddaughter, clone something. But when you criticize that, no matter how right you are, that's when you are attacked. Then, about there not being female leads in shows meant for women...has anyone seen many of the shows meant for girls in the past 30 years? My Little Pony, Twilight, Sailor Moon (which honestly I didn't know was actually aimed at girls when CN first showed it), they are all dominated by female characters, and tend to only have one or two male characters total. That is unless its a Twilight situation or of the teen genre where then you have the one girl surrounded by guys fighting over here (and there are a ton of examples of that...and I used to tell my sister every day how messed up that was, especially in this era). Yet, that's fine. The MODERN strong female character is an affront to every strong female character from prior years, and even some of the more recent ones. I mean, as raw of a deal she got, I still love Azula from Avatar. And speaking of Azula, has anyone noticed how there aren't that many female bad guys anymore? I'm just going to end it here, this is already a dictionary but you get my point.
Avatar in general is such a great series with phenomenal characters. Iroh and Zuko are easily the best characters in Western animation, that almost goes without saying. But Katara, Azula, and Sokka are all incredible in their own right. Seriously anyone who hasn't seen this show should watch it when it comes back to Netflix on May 15.
@@matthewmazzatto8003 Its coming back? Good, I've never been able to watch the entire thing and I caught it just before Netflix took it off the last time.
@@ImmaLittlePip That's mainly because Aaang set the bar so high. I'd say compared to a lot other shows A:TLOK is pretty good, especially for a sequel. The problem is that TLA was TOO good and TLOK had a number of production issues back when it was airing. However, Korra was also quite a Mary Sue in her own right so there's that.
"has anyone noticed how there aren't that many female bad guys anymore?" Fair point - there's not a single one in the SW sequel trilogy. (Phasma is revealed to be covertly working for the Resistance in a scene cut from Ep. 8!)
The reason we don’t like Rey is that she never actually loses. She’s just some godly character who is some highly trained Jedi 5 minutes after she picks up a lightsaber.
@Hunter Hall tbh her conflicted interest in Kylo Ren in TLJ was fun to watch especially using the perspective of romantic undertones. She was vulnerable and tempted which if they expanded upon it in the last movie she actually might have had an arc worth talking about
@@endaohalloran6649 Yet the only interaction she truly had with Kylo is that he tortured her for information and nearly cut her new friend in half with a Lightsaber. It's even worse when it was confirmed that the kiss at the end of Rise of Skywalker wasn't even romantic.
Luke: Needs to be saved on numerous occasions, needs to be trained how to use the force and wield a lightsaber, and needs a pilot to fly him. Rey: Masters all these things first try and doesn't ever need saving.
@@LeeEverett1 yeah, and the only reason he could fly an X-wing was because he flew those t-16 skyhoppers at home with biggs which is made by the same company. The controls were VERY similar.
There are plenty of female Star Wars characters that are female and “strong” the difference is they aren’t characters made specifically to pander to the female audience and agenda driven “fans.” Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Hera, Sabine, Cara to name a few of the main female characters from the films and shows.
“... stop telling little girls they can be anything they want... Not because they can’t, but because it would’ve never occur to them that they couldn’t.” - Sarah Silverman
The thing i've never understood is those saying that there is a lack of leading women in Star Wars, but that's just wrong. Princess Leia was the original 'strong female lead'. In a New Hope she was the first of main three to be introduced, introduced as a political figure, a leader of the rebellion against the empire, she resists interrogation, watches her home being destroyed for the good of the rebellion, leads the rescue after Luke and Han mess it up, is shown to be a better shot, smarter and more reliable, and is the main reason they are able to win the day at the end of the film by providing the plans. Luke is the one to blow up the death star because he is the protagonist, but Leia was responsible for every major victory in the film. She was always the more interesting character and always a role model for women and everyone else.
Liam Lynch starwars has so many good female characters, none of them were written to be the ULTIMATE FEMALE!!!! they were treated like dynamic and interesting characters who can grow and be relatable to
Nomi Sunrider, Mara Jade, Meetra Surik, Bastilla Shan... Anyone claiming "there is a lack of leading women in Star Wars" must not actually know anything about Star Wars.
Ahsoka became so powerful she used the force to rip the crystals out of an inquisitor's lightsaber killing him instantly, and yet she's one of many star wars fans favorite characters (despite being hated when introduced). Nobody hates strong female characters (unless they are literally an incel), they just don't like poorly written characters. Although I will point out that too many people give poorly written male characters a pass.
So the real "Strong Female Character" in Star Wars are: Leia, Padme, Sabin, Ahsoka and a bunch of other that I can't name because it would be too long but they all are in the Prequel and Original Saga Edit: Oh and I also forgot in the video games too even if they are not canon anymore but still.
Your optimism is misplaced. Lucasfilm doesn't deserve it. You don't have to be optimistic to be a Star Wars fan. “If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed.”
@@Xiphactinus i am imply here that disney says avar is the postergirl of the the jedi when we all know that the posterboy of the jedi is obi wan kenobi
I honestly don’t think the problem with Rey was Daisy Ridley’s acting. She’s a great actress in my opinion. The reason why Rey’s character is so flawed is because she was badly written with barely any character development. She’s so flat. It has nothing to do with Daisy.
I think you mean it doesn’t have anything to do with her acting. It has everything to do with Disney. They are the ones that made her a bad character. I haven’t seen any of her other movies but I will take your word for her acting
Everyone I know thinks daisy did a awsome job with what she had, only issue is as I said, is she had nothing. Despite this though when I went to the theater for the last jedi and the force awakens I loved the action, wasnt until I got home and put on my nerd glasses that I realized for both of these films, the writing and agenda was awful.
@Hunter Hall. Aw! I also happen to know the basics of HEMA and am a fencer, I agree with all you said but if you look at it in real time its hard to see all the small flaws in their lightsaber skills, yes, the over swings are telegraphical, and all around both Rey and and Kylo fight like peasants with a sword, but I don't believe either trained for it unlike Ewan McGregor. But looking at it once, and for a purely flashy scene it was alright since most flaws were to fast to see.
@@Helphine. Kinda hard to ignore that the Prequels had amazing choreography that truly made it look like it was Jedi fighting while this new trilogy not only has slow, boring movements, but The Last Jedi's climax flatout has weapons disappear constantly.
If you dislike one bad female character who’s there for woke purposes (Rey): You’re sexist. If you like multiple female characters that have personalities, motives, beliefs, have actual reasons for being there, and are genuinely good characters (Leia, Padmé, Ahsoka, Jyn, Hera, etc.) but aren’t there for woke purposes: You’re still sexist. Well that’s weird.
Whenever people use the "You don't like strong female characters!" Act. I'll be like: Bastila Shan Ahsoka Tano Leia Organa Padme Amidala Kreia Aayla Secura Shaak Ti Mon Mothma Meetra Surik Mara Jade
Excellent examples. I feel like disney justs sits in their ivory tower jerking each other off. Do they not understand how pissed off a LARGE majority is at them for their agenda bullshit?
idiots really think “strong female character” means a female character who is powerful. it doesn’t. it means a female character who is written well/as an actual character. the problem with this misconception is that the stronger these female characters are, the more underwritten they tend to be. leia is a strong female character. ahsoka is. padme is. rey is not
Exactly. So with the push for "strong female characters", they just make female characters that are physically stronger, not better written. The most ironic thing is that with this entire movement pushing for stronger female characters, almost no progress has been made because no one's looking at it the right way. In a lot of ways (like comparing Rey to Leia), it's actually made it worse. I'd much rather have fewer female characters that have time and thought put in, and are actually well made, then have a bunch of female reboots that are terribly written.
AACM12 Ahsoka would win against Ray in an instant. Her white lightsabers were made from crystals she ripped out of an inquisitiors lightsaber, causing the hilt to explode and killing the inquisitior instantly. That kind of raw force power is almost unheard of. Ahsoka is both better written, and ends up more powerful then Ray could ever dream to be.
i love how, in a world of huge space battles, laser guns and swords, magic levitating power, and aliens, the #1 thing disney worries about is if the fans can relate to the characters
Because... the audience being able to relate to characters is key for their investment in the story? Unless you just want pretty colors flashing in front of your face
Because retcon. Yoda lied in ESB when he told Luke he trained Jedi for 800 years. The ACTUAL STORY is Yoda was actually a female called Yodina at one point but couldn't excel at anything because patriarchy. Stuff happened, then Yodina met and was was trained by Avar Kriss to become the best. Yodina became the best but couldn't get on the high council because she was female. So Yodina got a sex change, changed his/her name to Yoda and BOOM, we see Yoda in TPM.
The intentions of these caricatures are made very clear by the writers. They don't want to make characters who have inherent flaws or create flaws that can't easily be solved by just being told to simply "believe in yourself". I don't see anything interesting or any aspects of these characters that display a sense of individuality. All of the characters are described as respected teachers from the male characters and the female characters are all mainly being described as powerful, smart, kind and selfless. Basically, all of the characters hardly have major flaws that requires a journey or an adventure to exploit that flaw and then convince the characters to change for the better. Instead we have morally perfect paragons who are dull and are no different from one another. If you were to pick any one character description out of random, most likely it would neatly describe all of the characters. This is why I have a problem with Disney star wars and it's two-face attempt to both pander to a small group who preaches on identity politics and half ass attempt to keep the fans and the general audience. They focus too much on politics and implementing it in books and movies it almost seems like its entirely a propaganda driven project. The underlying themes are so obvious it may as well be in your face screaming at you. If they focused more on creativity, I think anyone can come up with a better idea than space Vikings as mentioned in the video on the high republic.
@@achaudhari101 I've seen a few writers who are well respected in the video introducing the high republic, however the rest of the story group is overall made up of writers who aren't usually known for creating scifi fantasy books and novels. They are credited for other works. It's very similar to DC hiring Melissa De La Cruz to make a riverdale/twilight novel series of the Batman IP. The characters and the general direction of the book series is going the opposite way of gaining the most net profits and instead doubling down on non-genuine woke politics being shoved down our throats. I'm sure they'll introduce some concepts to expand the lore or maybe even expand the world building of the star wars universe, but just looking at the names of the new characters we are given and they do not sound like something from star wars. Instead, it sounds almost too similar to certain names from the tv and book series Game of Thrones. Overall, if you think the new books will be good and if you loved all of the sequel trilogy then good for you. I wish I can like this new stuff, but for me I believe in consistency of Canon and the overall continuity of the franchise because you can't always treat every story like it's an anthology or else the sequel trilogy would be excused from not introducing anything new or exciting while actively rejecting all of the aspects that makes a franchise great from the overall convoluted story that is Star wars. That's the point about star wars, who is this franchise for? It certainly can't be for everyone because clearly men who disagree on the direction of star wars will be marginalized on the internet for having a different opinion that has nothing to do with any misogynistic or sexist connotations. It's not for the women because even female star wars fans don't like any of this new content. Matter of fact, there are a number of channels on RUclips that actively boycott it. And it is not pandered to the fans because fans of all genders and ages would get criticized for calling out Disney for its unconventional business practices and then be made fun of by the directors, writers, and crew members from Lucasfilm for years now. Please Alex Chaudhari, who is this franchise for? Because it seems like nobody wants anything to do with star wars because Disney wants to try soo hard to please everyone when the average person very well knows that is nothing short from the impossible.
I'm just waiting for the scene in the High Republic where Rey Neo uses the force to turn water into wine and uses a Porg to feed hundreds of hungry Gungans cuz she's the bestest EVAH.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that thinking of flaws and overcoming them with belief, as we saw that with the Younglings in The Gathering - but I do agree with what you mean; Jedi at this particular age shown should have outgrown such things and gotten more self-restraint and better training and control by now.
And that's what it all comes down to. It's a convenient scapegoat for when Disney/LuKennedy knows they've rushed out another steaming pile in order to placate shareholders and it fails to meet projections. It can't possibly be that they hector the life out of their creators and talent and put them on impossible schedules in order to meet press and merchandising deadlines.
Bringing Rey in the way the did ruins the point of the “hero character “ They need to learn how to use their powers and not master them without any training
My problem is that they totally ignored the characters that came before Rey. Ben was supposed to be the better trained villain, he was trained by Luke and Snoke A.K.A. Palpatine but still, Rey by downloading some information from Ben's mind, suddenly is an outstanding force user. Sure, people would say: "But hey, Luke suddenly was a great force user too out of nothing." But people need to understand that we saw Luke struggling during his training and when he also fought Vader. We didn't get to see that with Rey. Obi Wan and Yoda decided to hide from the Empire when they both failed their missions, but they knew how to keep their hope in the most difficult times. But Luke, the one who was supposed to be the beacon of hope, ended up hiding and full of guilt just because he saw a dark vision that Yoda once told him that the future is not always what you see.
This isn't the argument. More women would be more likely to invest in more traditionally male dominated media if they were able to relate to multiple different women on screen at a time. The same way that boys could choose between liking Luke or Han in the originals, 2 completely different characters, having multiple female characters enriches media for everyone to enjoy more
I've always never liked Leia and Padme growing up, there were a few prequel female Jedi I like but not many. My favorite character in all of Star Wars is Anakin Skywalker. I have loved him sense the first time I watched The phantom menace.
@@wildheart625 Anakin was my favourite when I was younger, and I always liked Leia from a young age. I don't really have a set favourite anymore, but Anakin/Vader, Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Han are among the best characters imo.
Rey had too much skills, she was poorly written, she also has a lot of Mary Sue Traits that in the long run ruined her character in all the movies, Here are 10 of em. 1. Finds the part to fix the Falcon. (I know she grew up in a junkyard like planet but come on this was stupid the Falcon has special parts to it and yet she knew a tie fighter part can fix the ship. Bull crap) 2. Finds out how to poison people in the falcon. (Mary Sue Trope again, if you were a normal character maybe have her think "Oh this might work" not "I know this will work!") 3. Rey is able to mind trick a 1st order trooper (Mind you, Luke didn't do this at all until episode VI Return of the Jedi. Imagine if he did do this in Episode IV yes I know the Death Star Run was him using the force sort of but not this broken like Rey.) 4. Rey is able to use the force without any hint that she was a Jedi or force sensitive. (This was completely dumb and stupid of them to even do this, and this part of the movie always bothered me the most. 5. Rey is able to use a light saber even though she had no training to even know how to use it. (Again we didn't see Luke do this in Episode IV imagine if he did would star wars even be loved for that? We didn't see Anakin do this in Episode I neither.) 6. Rey was able to go to the Darkside and Lightside of the force. (This again was a poorly written part of the movie and with no reason behind it, maybe they could've had her see something that shows what might become of her like they did with Anakin and Luke?) 7. Rey convinces Kylo to kill Snoke and team up (Again no reason behind this, I will give it to Episode IX that they did try to redeem Kylo on that movie by having him see his dad's ghost but The Last Jedi really left us a stinker for a story and we all know it.) 8. Rey saves everyone (This is a very annoying trope that has been bothering me in every video game, anime, show, movie. Why did she have to be the one and not Luke he could've told them about a different Exit but no let's give it to Rey she awesome.) 9. Rey beats Papatine (Kind of minor but was really hoping for a way better death then the way he died in this movie. I was hoping he would have used his Red Lightsaber and started fighting her but nah he dies the lamest way possible.) 10. Rey is revived by Kylo then Kisses by him. (NO! I just hated this part so frinken' much! There was so much wrong with this part, she showed no signs of loving him this was stupid writing again! Kylo... no he can't just do "Oh yeah I know how to revive someone ta da! Oh I love you now." That is not how you do a plot. He should've been left alive instead of Rey. Because this would've thought him that the sins he has committed make him lose everything he cared about.) Bonus one 11. Before people reply saying I am being a sexist because I hate this female character, WRONG! There are plenty of Star Wars female characters that shine so well in the Star Wars Canon, there are a lot in Origin Trilogy movies and prequels, The Clone Wars, Rebels, and hell even video game Fallen Order has Female characters that where well made. Just Rey, she needed a better Writer then whoever thought this was a amazing story for her. Palpatine should not have even been related to her this is what made her a worse character In my opinion. and the Her dying part would have been better as a Hero with no name death. because get it? She was the last Palpatine Line and having the name die would have been a way better plot ending but nope we can't have that. There's a lot more issues but I will end the list here.
It annoyed me that she somehow knew how to fly a ship, and her constant cocky attitude like “i can handle myself” to Han Solo straight pissed me off. At first i didn’t agree that Rey was a mary sue until i recently got Disney + and rewatched the sequels. Couldn’t even get halfway through TFA.
She, and TLJ could have been redeemed entirely if she'd accepted Kylo's offer in the throne room after defeating Snoke's guards. It would have taken the entire movie series in a really unexpected and interesting direction. And they'd foreshadowed this the entire movie. Kylo had been grooming her and her fall would have felt more realistic than even Anakin's fall.
I have tried explaining this to my sister and her gay best friend, but they still follow the SJW line of thinking - women are under-represented, critics are just sexist trolls, etc.
@@vetarlittorf1807 In 600 BBY Allya a female Human Jedi Knight was expelled from the Jedi Order and exiled to a penal colony on Dathomir. She used the planet's strong life energy to teach the colony's women to master the Force. These women became the Witches of Dathomir and Allya was their founder. From Legends with Love.
Thanks for saying that, I honestly just appreciate those who watch my videos and allow me to this. If anyone is underrated around here, it's how great of an audience I have.
@@thorskywalker I really appreciate your measured analysis on topics like this, it is something that many channels fail to accomplish. Thanks for all your hard work :)
Jean Grey, Storm and Rogue all main characters with the main story arcs of Chris Claremont's run on XMen. The bulk of his run was written around Jean. Storm lead the team! Magik, Moonstar again, main characters on Claremont's New Mutants run. She-ra, Xena, Red Sonja. I'm so sick of these lies. I'm a woman who LOVES fantasy and scifi. I read Dune and it was life changing. My copies of Roy Thomas Conan and Red Sonja are so worn from being read over and over and over. I also was "the cool girl" because I liked this stuff (and basketball) and never experienced any real stigma after I proved my need cred. I'm a woman and I also relate more to Jaime Lannister than any other character in current popular writing. I'm a woman and the gender doesn't matter. I understand his struggles with living up to expectations and the judgement of others. Why? Because he's a well written and relatable character! My other favorite character is Paul Atreides. Go figure... You know who doesn't appeal to me? Captain Marvel and Rey. They're awful examples of human beings, writing and lack anything interesting about them. This crap needs to stop. Let characters speak for themselves with their own genuine voices. People can smell tripe a thousand miles away and that is what this is.
I loved Claremonnt's run on X-Men, those were the days... And I'm almost ashamed to admit as a huge sci if/fantasy fan that I've never read dune. I recently bought the first book but haven't gotten to it yet.
A few things: 1. Star Wars is for *everyone* to love and enjoy. 2. Star Wars has always had many strong and above all else *well written* beloved female characters, long before Disney and Kathleen Kennedy started beating the "Force is female" drums. 3. Kathleen Kennedy and her agenda pushing clique at Lucasfilm should learn to take *constructive criticism* from the fans and see it for being just that without comparing it to "hate", "sexism", "racism" and etc. bullshit.
Well here's the issue: as soon as people start to call it an agenda, it becomes way harder to believe that you're making these arguments in good faith. If it was only about writing issues, race and gender would have never been brought up
@@dimenzed That doesn't really change my point. When people come at Rey calling her a "Mary Sue" instead of a "poorly written character" it's way harder to believe that they aren't sexist. Even if they aren't and have legitamete points, they often continue to spread the rhetoric used by bigots. Edit: We were not saying the same thing
When people present writing problems alongside sexism and bigotry, it becomes impossible to take any of their points in good faith, which is where most of the sequel trilogy criticism lands for me
"not sure what world they grew up in." College, they grew up in college literature studies. Or in forums ran by people who took college literature studies.
There seems to be this weird thought with modern ‘writers’ these days. if a female character can do anything and accomplish any feat without struggling,audiences will find them heroic and inspiring when in fact it usually ends up being the exact opposite. If you have two characters, one that saves the universe without struggling and kills the god of evil, and another that’s weak and struggles but in the end saves their village or even just a friend or family member with the help of their companions, odds are the latter will be more appealing because it shows the character at their weakest and shows the connection between them and their companions, this is usually the mid act low point. Sometimes the former will have a moment like this, but it’s often unearned and out of nowhere, like in captain marvel, she’s captured and so are her companions and she’s just found out all her memories were lies, but we don’t see her struggle, all she does is literally take of a sticker and she’s rewarded with more power. No struggle, no development, no characterisation, nothing. She breaks out all by herself without any help. If a female character relies on others for help, that doesn’t make them unheroic or weak, it makes them relatable and inspiring when they pull through as a team. One of the protagonists I look up to most, is Violet Evergarden, someone who is basically unable to live through life without someone ordering her around due to how she grew up. If you haven’t watched Violet Evergarden, I highly suggest you do so.
I suggest you guys have a look at Shin Megami Tensei:Persona,There's an Array of Strong Female and Male characters,they all have their unique traits and Flaws,the whole plot of the Games is the characters embracing their Flaws to Gain Power,if you can't Play any of the Games,you can watch Playthroughs on RUclips, trust me,it's Worth it,the Stories are some of the most Well Written and Relatable on Media.
Yeah, I am a misogynist, all right? I can't see these 'stronk female characters' under the shadows cast by Wonder Woman, Red Sonja, Xena, Storm, Rogue, Supergirl, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Valeria, Bastilla Shan, Ahshoka, Violet Evergarden, Mikasa Ackerman, Kassandra, and more.
Lionard Kirsch she’s not confirmed dead yet. We know that force users can talk across the galaxy when they aren’t dead. Also she wouldn’t even be at half-life yet age wise during episode 9
Where the hell are all the aliens?! Amazing how we live in this supposedly “diverse” galaxy but they would rather have different skin toned humans instead -_- (No togruta, no mon kolamari, no chiss, no Wookies, no new aliens, etc) Also, it wouldn’t bug me if these characters turn out to be well written, but it’s hard to optimistic considering their distinct lack of success :/
Well there is a Mirialan among those Jedi, but I agree. I would love to see more aliens as Jedi (even some races who you don't typically associate with the Jedi, like Rodians, Devonians or Sallustans, etc)
Prosthetic Quilt Chiss Jedi would be very interesting, since the Chiss were allied to the empire in the times of the old republic, the twist after the conflict would be interesting specially regarding the fate of their race as a whole.
MrHawger Hoenstly the idea of a rogue stormtrooper would have been an amazing story element. The first to be questioned as a spy, even getting tempted to become a spy for both sides due to his history and current placement. He should feel something for other troopers, maybe intentionally missing shots due to not wanting to kill another cog like he used to be. He could continually look down on the rebels he joined, seeing them in the propaganda-filtered eyes and constantly trying to correct them, slowly seeing why they fight or do what they do. He could be a key in turning more regiments of troopers, dawning his old armor and trying to turncoat more of his old allies. Fin, without even any other influence like Poe, could have been an amazingly interesting character with the potential he was given. He could have been so much more...
Finn should have been a stormtrooper turned by the force to the light side and became the next jedi or "last" jedi. What's worse was the tfa trailers led this thought.
@Char Aznable they stole a stormtrooper turned jedi from us They could have at least given Fin something more than screaming REYYY every 5 minutes he could have freed all the other stormtroopers who were also child slaves and were capable of becoming self aware/ defecting but soon after he learns this he still mows through them without hesitation
This whole problem could have been avoided by simply puting a good author in charge of Rey from the beginning. Someone who could have understood a strong character doesn't have to be super girl with a light saber.
In order to overcome a weakness, a character must have them in the first place. That's what being a strong lead is all about: overcoming weaknesses, accepting your flaws and growing as a person because of it.
Even some rabid feminist writers (not willing to look for the video now) have underhandedly admitted they don't like her but are not really allowed to say so.
@@noone8418 at the bare minimum he had training and was already shown to be ultra reckless and strong headed as a child, rey had no back story and was a perfect pilot and amazing at near everything immediately, I think anakin lost a hand and multiple lightsabers and a nice scar on his face as well, showing at the very least that he makes mistakes that have consequences, rey's mistakes mend nearly immediately and leave nothin lasting really
I'm an inspiring author, and what I'm finding out from my reviewers these days is that a story HAS to have a strong female character. If they like to dress in dresses, have tea parties, or even paired with a male in any way, that gives them an immediate WEAK quality, and is dismissed by the feminists as a garbage character. I find this really unfortunate. Nothing just serves the story or the world-building anymore, instead, it has to push an agenda. That's really unfortunate, because it handicaps you from creating good memorable characters.
David Kraft I‘m sorry to hear that. But I‘m sure if you ignore those people and just write a good story, there would still be a lot who want to read it. Maybe even more than otherwise, since good stories are getting rare nowadays.
As cliche as it sounds ignore the crazies , focus on writing a good story. Not some propaganda to appease some vocal jerks. It may be a challenge but challenges are meant to be overcome
I find it so ironic that I, a seventeen year old female who is NOT a tomboy relates to male characters more than females. Here’s a list of some of my favorite characters from some of my favorite franchises: 1. Jackson Overland Frost (Dreamwork’s Rise of the Guardians) 2. Edward Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist) 3. K2SO, IG11, & L3 (Rogue One/The Mandalorian/Solo: A Star Wars Story) 4. Doctor Strange (Marvel) 5. Naruto, Sai & Temari (Naruto) 6. Literally any of the My Hero Academia characters except Mineta 7. Raleigh Beckett and Mako Mori (Pacific Rim) I find it interesting to notice that over half of the characters who I consider my personal favorites and that I relate to are male or in the case of droids, programmed to be male. It doesn’t and shouldn’t matter what the gender of the character is. It just needs to be a good character with proper development and story arc.
This is probably more of the case that writers, producers and directors are more often than not male, and they themselves relate more to the male experience and generally create more relatable male characters because it's easier to get into that headspace. A solution to this problem would be to have a more gendered balance in these fields allowing for different real life experiences to shape these characters
@Hunter Hall movies have always been about profits, that's what this whole capitalism thing is all about. If you think that's a problem, that'll be a different topic but we just have to take that as a given. Studios just want to make money and that's it. The Star Wars problems go much deeper than an even ratio of men to women. From not having a clear 3 movie vision from the beginning. To allowing Rian Johnson free reign to make the movie he wanted only to then try and retcon his movie after backlash from some fans. This is just poor planning on behalf of Disney and Lucasfilm. The same way Universal poorly planned their 'Dark universe' to how Fox poorly handled their Marvel properties, to Warner Bros. poorly planning their D.C universe. An equal gendered split isn't evidence as a cause for these problems. And yes well written female protagonists do exist, but they are rare. Let's make them much more even with men. That's all that we are saying
Best written female characters in star wars: Bastilla Shan Mara Jade Leia Organa Mon Mothma Ashoka Tano You know what they all have in common? They're all well written characters who have strengths AND WEAKNESSES. They all face challenges that effect them physically AND mentally/emotionally. They overcome their problems over time and not just in one movie. Either through lots of training, or just learning from their mistakes.
SJW's: HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE FEMALE CHARACTERS OR CHARACTERS OF DIFFERENT ORIENTATION?! Me, watching Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh and other anime: Wat?
Balalaika from Black Lagoon would kick all their candy asses. And keep her cool the whole time. Black Lagoon should be required reading for anyone wanting to write strong female characters.
Funny how you mention Sailor Moon. She is as big of a Mary Sue as Rey is. But unlike Rey, Sailor Moon is likeable, fun to watch, and builds the characters around her in a way that allows them to develop and play off of her. Sailor Moon is a Mary Sue. But she's a Mary Sue done right.
I agree with “I don’t hate female characters, I hate poorly written ones” I’d like to add that I don’t hate strong female characters but hate strong female characters who are female just for the sake of being female in order to ingratiate the recently emerged trend of thought and focuses only on being a female and carry no plot value and does not make the movie better whatsoever. Or weak female characters whose importance are emphasized by deliberately making male characters even more weak. A lot of cultural product have stopped producing intriguing story like the clone wars or epic actions like Anakin vs Dooku but instead busy replacing white men with brown women, as if being white or male is a crime. I am Asian by the way
I recently had a similar discussion about how Netflix shoehorns political correctness into anything they can, with the most recent example being La Casa De Papel, a series I _love_ - but it really bugged me how they added the transsexual cousin, I don't mind LGBTQ, but the fact that it added literally nothing to the series besides a bit of virtue signaling when they talked about how Denver doesn't understand that "she" has been a girl the whole time, it felt really inappropriate and destroyed a lot of the immersion for me... Like, "we have a gripping series about a masterly planned bank heist, by the way, LGBTQ is a thing and normal and you need to accept it, now back to the bank heist"
Fair enough, but many fans "hate poorly written female characters" to a degree that's far more vocal than than their hatred of poorly written male characters - and often cite "feminist/anti-white male agendas" in the process. For better or worse, a lot of people feel that they are currently "under attack" by Disney/Hollywood and the idea that it's deliberately making male characters weaker to encourage more sales to women. There's certainly always an argument for good/better writing, but I'm not convinced that all the anti-SJW/Mary Sue complaining is really that argument - and I think that many of those complaining would be happy if more characters were simply male, even if they weren't better written.
@@Malt454 Can you name a recent male character that is a s poorly written in a major release? These Mary Sues are classic in that they are simply virtue signals, Rey, the recent Terminator and Charlies Angels crew are examples.
@@killcat1971 - Kylo Ren was alright, although a Darth Vader knockoff, but I wasn't impressed with any of the new characters in the new trilogy - people can't tell me that Poe or Finn were well-written characters - they weren't even at the level of Lando. The real problem a lot of people have with Rey is that she's female, not how "unrealistic" she is; as a guy, all would be forgiven -Anakin was a poorly-written pain in the ass in all three prequels, but it was never a huge issue. Most of the current whining about writing quality is really just gender politics in disguise.
@@Malt454 except in the new trilogy even the poorly written males are getting picked apart. Finn was a character who was completely wasted after the first movie, and the only reason why we talk about Rey more is that the SJWs get mad at us for talking bad about her. It's the people who defend the "strong female characters" that create conversations about females. The reason we don't talk about males is that we aren't sexist and don't care about gender like them.
So many of these 'woke' characters look and sound like Dungeon & Dragon characters. Or perhaps it just because they're both self insert roleplay; one in co-op table top game, and the other all over a well loved franchise.
If you'd like to skip ahead in the video, past me talking about the characters of the High Republic Era, click here: 6:03
Thor Skywalker Skip the video to 6:03? Never!
Thanks, Thor.
Yeah, when everyone started to accuse the High Republic of being an SJW propaganda I was confused. Because other properties attacked fans and hid behind the you hate this excuse but as far as I'm aware none of the project lumnous have done this. It just seems like they want to bring in Diversity but still tell an interesting story.
The only question I have is, what about Yoda? If this new Jedi is the most powerful of the time, so is Yoda less powerful or do they mean she's second only to yoda like Mace was. I don't know but I'm sure they'll explain it.
@Lionard Kirsch oh, I see. But who knows mabye the other writers will make it work. Or it will be a waste of planning and money like the ST.
We don’t want “Strong female characters”, we want good characters. (Also, I want more aliens)
Good, strong, FEMALE aliens!
"Right, right. Somebody said 'alien' she thought they said 'illegal alien' and signed up!"
How about just strong, badass, effective characters! Doesn’t have to be male or female. :)
I agree, where r my rodian, quarren, Duros, etc., characters?
Judging by your profile pic I see you sir are a man of culture.
But I don’t hate strong female characters, I hate poorly written characters.
Brian Reed
No they were poorly written characters
The fact that fans have to assert this fact over and over in the face of vitriolic accusations from the new “creators” of Star Wars and their Twitter mob is what is wrong with this franchise. And the fact that I can say that in all seriousness and be right is damn tragic.
Brian Reed they were though. Finn has no arc, Po stayed the same, Rey got everything with no struggles, Rose did nothing... new things I loved right away were the prequels, clone wars, mandalorian and the list goes on.
Agreed
@@brianreed1859 What about that? Everything new about Star Wars recently were poorly written, most notable the plot and characters of the sequel triology, who can enjoy a film with a bad writing? If you can enjoy them, seek for help
I don't not like Rey because she's female. I don't like her because she's poorly defined as a hero and never overcame a serious challenge. Every conflict she got in it's like they made her a super Jedi with no solid explanation
Fr
Excuses, excuses, excuses
Daisy Ridley did a great job with the pile of shit they chucked at her
Sir_ Deadlock They just said they don’t hate her cause she’s female. Are you stupid?
@Gabriel Bourcier Blake But Luke didn't become a Jedi master in hours and defeat a Sith shortly after.
The difference between Rey and Ahsoka
Rey is a strong *Female* character
Ahsoka is a *strong* female character
You are right on the money my friend
Kaladin Stormblessed rey isn’t even a strong character. But I do see your point. Ashoka, Padme and Leia are my favourite female characters in Star Wars. By far. Just the development of the characters and the strength they portray.
This is rlly ironic since the first time ahsoka was shown many jumped on the hating ahsoka wagon, calling her a mary sue
maybe sometimes it isnt abt how good the character is or not but instead the biases people make about a character that represents smth they arent used to seeing in media?
BadFace well tbh, Ashoka wasn’t the best at first. But she really developed into a true character. Let’s also not forget when the clone wars started it wasn’t well received as a whole and Ashoka sadly fell into that. But Rey is character who suffered from bad writing -a bit like the 13th doctor- Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress but her potential was a bit wasted due to the poor writing and influence of the media. A real shame. But then again, the fandom responded well to other female lead films such as rouge one which shows the potential. The fans don’t care if it’s a man or a woman as long as the story doesn’t rely on this. If the story’s good, than the gender doesn’t matter. The same thing happened when the clone wars started, it was more of a kid’s show and it wasn’t well received. And before anyone thinks of me as some sexist and toxic Star Wars fan on the internet (which there’s a lot of them on the internet, not all but still more than we’d like) , I loved Ashoka from day 1. I was young when the clone wars started airing and really enjoyed the dynamic between Ashoka and Anakin, and as the show matured and all the characters developed, so did I. That’s why I think Ashoka and Rex had some of the best character development I’ve seen in a long time.
Forgive this little rant 😂 Have a nice day everyone :D
Can I just say I had a quick look at your channel and you’re a really good artist :D
Even Rey was a male character, he will still be a boring character, absolutely nothing to do with gender!
Not if it was Ray from the trailer park boys. Would be really interesting
If rey was male, she would just be luke. The issue people had with rey wasn't that she was written badly. but that she is just a female luke skywalker ripoff. Nobody likes ripoffs.
@s10055072 I agree. After The Force Awakens, if Rey was a man, I would still be wondering how he got those force powers so quickly. In the next movie, I will wonder how he was able to expertly control different ships, raise boulders like nothing, etc. In the third movie, well... I didn't bother with that since The Last Jedi was so bad.
@@narata1541 nah, she is just a ripoff of luke. Been there done that. The reason people didn't like is for the same reason people didn't like luke. Growing up i rarely heard people liking luke. Most liked han solo, darth vader, or boba fett. If you liked luke skywalker, kids would make fun of you.
@@AngelicOblivion90 If it makes you feel better saying that, go ahead. I won't be baited into arguing with someone who makes fun of people who don't like Rey as a character.
Good characters who happen to be female. Gender isn’t a behavior characteristic. That’s always forgotten during character development.
Personality before Appearance
This! Thank you!
Totally agree. Thank you!
Yup. I’ve never heard any Star Wars fan say a bad word about Leia? Isn’t she considered a strong female character? If not, why?!
Absolutely. I write from time to time, mostly short stories up to this point. But I've been building out the details for a much longer, serialized story lately. And whenever I'm making a plot, here's what my thought process looks like, including when I decide gender.
- Decide what type of story I want to tell. Sci-fi. Fantasy. Adventure. Mystery. Etc.
- Decide what kind of "flavor" I want to give it... in other words, what kind of aspects do I want that story to explore. Power progression? Exploration? Cultural forces?
- What "major scenes" did I imagine while deciding the first two steps? What kind of loose plot structure will naturally let me link them together in a believable way? Did I leave myself enough room to make changes as I write and find more natural developments?
- What character archetypes do I need to make this story work?
- How many need developed? Which is my main protagonist(s) and antagonist(s)?
- What kind of cultures will these characters interact with?
- Now that I know that, how can I flesh out my characters so that they have personalities that will interact with the plot, settings, and other characters in interesting ways? This is primarily personality traits built on those archetypes, including likes/dislikes and skill sets.
- Now, what kind of interesting backstories can I give them that work with what I've established so far. Here is where character sex and names are determined.
- Develop character appearance.
- Start playing around with when characters are best introduced into the plot.
- Do supplementary worldbuilding to fit in the story type, characters, and major scenes I've created. (For instance, if this is a fantasy world, develop the magic system further and codify its rules.) Do research. Flesh out world. Et cetera.
- Revise and make sure things gel so far. Repeat previous steps as necessary.
- Develop first scene, and then begin writing.
Now, obviously, sometimes character aspects later on my list will come earlier in the development timeline. I've had a nearly fully-fledged character pop into my head at the very beginning. Sometimes it's because I've been inspired to put my own spin on a preexisting character, remade for my story. So sometimes character sex can come earlier. But usually it's in the latter third of development. Sometimes the character's sex doesn't matter, and I choose simply because one part of the story has too many of the other sex in it and it needs balanced to feel organic.
I mean, you've got people using a Video Game Multiplayer Mode to make a better female character than Rey.
So, does anyone remember Bastilla Shan or Satele Shan? They are OBVIOUS “strong female characters” but also they were extremely well-written characters.
Shhh, Disney doesn't want to work that hard so they are not Canon. Because hurr durr old star wars misogynist hurr durr.
PistolWhip47 Exactly #kotoristruecanon
"Yeah but those characters struggled at times, made mistakes, and had humanizing flaws. We can't portray women as having any kind of weakness lest we be seen as sexist, safer to make all female character OP, flawless, personality-less Mary Sues"-Some corporate suit making these decisions.
BabyKrogan Exactly It’s okay to have female characters but when they’re Mary Sues there’s no point and the same with male characters. It’s not that female characters are bad it’s just that Rey is badly written and people take it out on female characters being bad. I know that’s not everyone including you guys on this chain but there are those people out there
And they are sexy as hell
As a woman I relate way more to Luke than Rey, her whole characterization was just all over the place with no defined goals, struggles, or other aspects that make for good writing. She's not even a good example of a FEMALE character because her gender doesn't influence her actions or anything at all - not that that's a bad thing, but if the point is to emphasize her gender you would think she wouldn't be written so generically - even her clothes are gender neutral and the closest thing I could find in canon to her being feminine was... her hair? Leia, Ahsoka, and even Padme (although more so in The Clone Wars for her) are all examples of strong female characters in Star Wars that work and pretty much anyone can relate to them I feel, even Disney has done a decent job with Sabine and Hera in Rebels. Disney should look to these characters for inspiration, instead of trying and failing to do Wonder Woman as they have with all of the female characters that have been complained about in their franchises.
Love Hera and Sabine! IN FILONI WE TRUST
This. She's just perfect at everything, with no shortcomings, no personality, she is pure awesome and perfection, the moment she steps onto a spaceship she knows how to fix it better than the guy who worked on it for half a century, the moment she falls into water she can swim, the moment she gets a lightsaber into her hand she easily beats the guy who was supposed to be the most powerfull being in the galaxy, that's boring.
We can't relate to her character because she has no character, we can't feel any tension because we already know she's gonna win effortlessly anyway, and even if the movie presents something as a mistake of hers, like being caught, the movie will go out of it's way to make sure we understand that it was for the better, because how could Rey have saved Finn and Poe on the Starkiller Base if she hadn't been captured and freed herself before?
She's just BORING in every way, and that has nothing to do with her gender. There's countless good female characters in Star Wars. But Rey definitely isn't one of them.
Rey is just a political statement not an actual character.
I’ve been saying this so much, she doesn’t feel like a character let alone a female one
Hear hear
Yes, fashion changes rapidly in our world and it's not hard to imagine it changes quickly in that world as well. HOWEVER, you know whose clothing hasn't changed much in thousands of years? Monks
cobra312004 I do see that point, and I’m by no means mindlessly supporting the high republic BUT, I think if there’s one thing that has any sort of prof that it does change quickly is the fashion, even with the jedi staying the same in other ways. It also would make sense for the jedi robes to reflect the time period they are in, it could even be a built in flaw of the order with good enough writing. that being said I still think that the time period should have been moved another couple hundred years earlier.
Exactly. These character designs belong in the Old Republic, thousands of years earlier. The Jedi Post Russan Reformation all looked like the ones from the prequel trilogy.
That's a great observation. I feel as though this maybe gets at the push-pull between the Jedi being interpreted as knights vs/and/or monks.
@dragon1193 linktoad But the thing you're missing there is that the appearance of knights changed because the weapons and armour they used and faced changed. Modern infantry look different from Napoleonic infantry because they're equipment forces them to fight differently.
The Jedi haven't seen anything like that pace of change in their equipment or techniques, so they have no impetus to change their dress code.
@dragon1193 linktoad Alterations, yes. But because we're looking at a group that relies on reputation, the changes won't be that big. It's important for Jedi to be recognisable as the invincible laser sword ninja wizards of legend when they want to be, and that implies a degree of consistency which resists the kind of rapid change we see in fashion.
It's also worth remembering that some of the changes in clothing we've seen over the past 200 years or so of our own history are driven by a wide variety of factors beyond mere fashion - power looms in general are barely 250 years old, and the Jacquard loom 215, give or take.
So much of the change experienced in the real world is due to evolving technologies, expanding economies and new visual media like photography, motion pictures, TV and the internet... the Star Wars galaxy doesn't have that pace of change throughout, so... I don't know, maybe the High Republic is looked on by the GCW era galaxy as the 'shoulder pads and leg warmers' era...
We may be thinking too hard about this.
Wait wtf, isn’t yoda 700 years old during the prequels. Shouldn’t he be in this?
He is about 900 during the prequels. edit: actually about 800.
Almost 900 years old.
@@mattai075 yeah somewhere in the middle
Yeah he has been a Jedi for a while
@@Darth-vade123 a very long while indeed
As a woman who grew up with two brothers, I always watched the “boy prominent” shows and movies. And guess what? I NEVER had a problem relating to them, because you don’t need to look like a character to be able to relate to them. If you truly believe that a woman can only relate to another woman, than your just shallow and maybe even sexist.
so basically anyone who isn't like you is "just shallow and maybe even sexist."
GHype I think you’re misinterpreting what I said. All I mean is that you can relate to a character, even if they don’t look like you. Haven’t you ever related to a character even though they were the opposite gender?
SeriousRereader I understand perfectly. I don’t get why people struggle with what “relating” means.
@@SeriousRereader great point! One of my all time favorite female characters that I can completely relate to is from the Movie Pitch Black. Fry has an amazing character journey going from a self server to someone that sacrifices themselves for the team at the end (spoiler lol). I can completely relate to her even though I am not female. I just use Fry as an example because I really like her arch. It doesn't matter what you look like to be able to relate to someone who doesn't look like you. Thank you for your excellent point.
@@SeriousRereader yes i have related to many characters who do not look like me.
The phrase “Strong female character” already kinda dismisses the character’s value.
A well written character’s gender shouldn’t matter. If your character’s main draw is that they’re female, that somewhat defeats the purpose...
"Any man who says I am the king is no king”
Precisely, a character's gender should not matter in the slightest. So why is everybody freaked out that some of these characters just HAPPEN to be female?
@@didds8869 I see you picking comments to reply to. You only came here to bait and I'm taking it to call you out. Watch the video or don't comment lmao.
@@kevinshi6500 Cheers for being the hero, dickhead. I watch every single one of Thor's videos start to finish so no need to pull that card. I just think a certain section of the fanbase is being needlessly toxic towards characters we only know a tiny bit about.
@@didds8869
The problem is that Reu was already pictured to be strong female character, to push an agenda, they were quite open about it. This wouldn't have mattered if Rey was written well, however they turned her into a Mary Sue, which is probably the stupidest think you can do if you want to create a strong female character and especially if you are openly saying this is what you did.
Because of this there will be an adverse reaction with a lot of fans for the coming future when a female characters is made extremely strong or great, like now saying this female characters is the best of the best and that she is basically what a jedi should be.
If Rey was well written and/or their goal was never to push an agenda with the female lead character, everything would be "fine", but they kind of ruined female strong characters for a while untill they prove they can write a good one and focus more on the story and lore, rather than the message(s) behind it.
We don't want a Mary Sue like Rey, we want a well developed female character like Ahsoka or Leia.
And Padme
Already been hearing how Ahsoka is a Mary Sue. 🥱
Hell, even Jyn Erso!
I agree 100% Ahsoka has her own hero's journey and even some of the Sith characters like Darth Zannah has a villains hero's journey everyone has a story where they have failed and pick themselves up to make themselves better that's what makes a great character because we can all relate to that we have all failed but we all have picked ourselves up and succeeded in life that's the type of story I love to read about in love to see
@@PittsburghSonido The only people I hear saying that are A: a small minority of fringe loonies (Irrelevent) B: people who were saying it before her story had been far more fleshed out (Irrelevent now) or C: people trying to "Defend" Rey by attacking other characters. (Which makes no sense. The OT could Manos, Birdemic, and The Room, it doesn't improve the quality of the Sequels.)
At this point I completely believe the idiots at Lucasfilm literally don't care what the fans think. Because they seem to think a franchise can exist without fans.
TO BE FAIR I think this initiative has probably been around for a few years before the Star Wars fallout, and they're just kinda forced to shove this out because there's too much work done on it.
The fact of the matter is they can easily brain wash a new generation into believing this garbage agenda. I can speak from experience w my son. He doesn’t care or understand the potential damage he is suffering from these story lines. He just enjoys the space ships, robots, and action. Bottom line: I think they can create a new generation of fans easily so they don’t feel pressure to appease older fans.
@Niyaz Kaan Dağçınar If you put a completely insane ideology before literally everything else than you begin to lose touch with reality. These people believe everyone who disagrees with them is a bigot, you really think they're going to understand how to run a business? And that fans of your franchise are your customers and that your franchise can't exist without the fans? The answer is simple: They don't understand any of that.
@@ddff2815 I COMPLETELY agree... It's not US 'orders ' they're aiming at, they want our kids to buy into it... That's their main target group in my view. My exes were really getting into the originals and and the prequels ~ this sequel trilogy, if I had a choice they'd never find out about until they were 18 plus🤣
Ketsuban Solo
Yeah. I agree. It will be interesting to see how this goes. If they are not selling books, what happens to this world they are wanting to create. Also, if this is agenda driven content and being set up by KK, then do we see things change if and when she retires or if this isn’t successful
I am Chinese male and my fav character of all time is Asoka and my worst character is rose tico, so just call me racist sexist whatever you want
you cool man
You're not racist nor sexist, you just have good taste. Don't let anybody let you otherwise man, or I'll execute Order 66 on 'em
You don't need to apologize for something you know you're not and don't let people tell you otherwise. 🙂
@@coconutthecockatiel478 order 69 is beter,heh heh
Alec Shao yeah I didn’t like rose either. She was sooo annoying and some of her lines were just so stupid.
Ahsoka Tano: Strong, competent, natural leader, extremely resourceful, highly capable
Rei:.............gifted?
Over powered
Ahsoka was not a natural leader, she got people killed when she would act on her own at the beginning. That was something she actually had to learn which was why she was so relatable.
I think the rule was that Rey was good at everything except for what she hadn’t tried yet. Then once she tried it she was an absolute master at it.
I know plenty of girls who just don’t relate to Rey, but they relate to Anakin and Luke and Ahsoka
@@TheaterPup The Clone Wars version of Anakin is pretty relatable.
@@matthewmazzatto8003 Clone Wars Anakin is meh, Movie Anakin is dog shit! Never understood the Anakin fandom.
@@TheaterPup Be disturbed then. I related very strongly to Ep. 2 Anakin, more so than I ever did to Luke.
Why would Yoda not be the most powerful Jedi at a time when he would be 800 years old? Shouldn’t he be more powerful then than during the prequels?
M. Ostrowski my guess is they just forgot about Yoda as he doesn’t fit their agenda. And also because, as near we’ve understood, he’s a “he”.
@@emberfist8347 Interesting how did a creature that only lived 600 years train jedi for almost 800 years?
@@soulfirez4270 Because this is 200 years before the original and prequel trilogies, so Yoda would be 200 years younger.
@@soulfirez4270 This story is set 200 years before the prequels.
@@revpembroke3082 Yeah brain fart moment ( didnt realize they were referencing the new work being done by the high council our what ever they call themselves so 200 years prior , but in that case then the OP's point stands he would still be by far the most powerful jedi of the time .
I would have thought, with only 200 hundred years in the past, wouldn’t the strongest Jedi be Yoda?
Logically yeah he should be, Yoda should probably be even more capable than he is 200 years later, maybe less wise but fuck at 700 years of age how much wiser can you really get?😂
Thank you, I was searching for this comment
@@damonwade6591 Younger Yoda would probably have less Yoda humor and be even more serious? Or maybe the opposite, a lot more humor and less seriousness.
@@damonwade6591 well if baby Yoda is a baby at 50 maybe Yodas species aging is just all messed up like at 700 you are actually 30 or smth some sort of reverse dog years on drugs
@@rocco3884 well hed definitely being in much better physical shape than 200 years later
As a little boy, damn did I want to be a waterbender like Katara.
yes! she was a bit whiny for sure and kinda hated her on book 3 but jeez, she was so good
I wanted to trow rocks like toph
I'm not a big Avatar fan, but I get the point.
Not only am I a brony, but I also find the MLP generations previous to FIM charming (Well, except for the so-called "Newborn" "Cuties" shorts).
why do characters have to be "strong?" cant we have characters that are weak and develop strength through adversity and experience?
Women are not weak.
funkydiscogod I- is this satire?
The definition of "strong" is apparently also an issue. Like, Disney's Snow White? The princess who was led into the woods by a huntsman who confessed he'd been ordered by her stepmother to murder her and carve out her heart? The one who then fled into the dark woods? The one who came to terms with her situation and managed to become happy despite all that before her stepmother came to finish the job?
NOPE! She's not "strong" because in the end, a _man_ had to wake her up from her slumber, and it was the dwarves who chased her stepmother and caused her to accidentally kill herself. If she was 'strong' (as defined by these types of people), she should've defeated her stepmother herself.
My understanding of "strong" was that despite bad things happening, a character could find the mental fortitude to push on. Nowadays it seems to be "more powerful than anyone else".
Only talented writers can pull that off which disney doesn't want to hire.
@@muhaoai4693 Mental fortitude seems to be a staple of the old Princesses, like Snow White and Cinderella, off the top of my head. I mean, sure, they all dreamed of a Prince coming and saving them, but the thing about dreams is: they're either a fantasy or a long-term goal. You mentioned Show White coming to terms with being lost in the woods and finding a project in the Dwarves. I also add that Cinderella saw the Ball as a way to escape from her situation, if only for a single night, did everything she could to make it happen, and made sure to savor the experience. And when she got locked in her room, she basically masterminded the escape.
Girls: look up to Leia, have a crush on Han Solo
Boys: look up to Han Solo, have a crush on Leia
I looked up to Leia but had a crush on Luke. Then, when the prequels came out, i had a crush on Obi-Wan.
Now i still like Obi-Wan a lot, but he's probably a very close second to Theron Shan. Theron is by far my favourite SWTOR companion and the best romance option for my female Jedi Knight. I also like Arcann a lot
Leia and Padmé also send girls the important message that they don't have to sacrifice their femininity to be strong, something a lot of adult women today still don't realize.
Actually, it seems that most female fans, regardless if they're gay or straight, have a crush on Leia and Anakin. I remember back in the day how some were raving about the scene in ROTS where Anakin was shirtless and covered in sweat lol
I looked up to Anakin and I still think Padme is a B A B E
@Brainjock Well, he didn't butter his bread on that side, so it's even more of a lost cause than just generally having a crush on a fictional character.
Question: Why on Earth would the Jedi Council make someone impulsive a Jedi Knight? Isn't the whole thing about being a Jedi controlling your emotions? And they mention being passionate about what they do, yet that is also quite a strong emotion. Hell, in the EU a part of the Jedi Code said: "There is no passion, there is serenity". If I'm being honest these Jedi seemed to be the antithesis of the regular Jedi.
I think the jedi code still exists, Obi-Wan voice lines in Battlefront II have them
Anakin would like to know your location
@@emberfist8347 Anakin was promoted VERY reluctantly despite them needing more knights, and his status as the Chosen One helped with that.
@@emberfist8347 Not to mention those promotions came during wars against Sith and many Dark Jedi, which are believed extinct during this time by the Jedi.
@@emberfist8347 Regardless, they were still very reluctant.
“Two strong women fighting over a weaker man”
*HAREM ANIME INTENSIFIES*
Ah, the formula Twilight should have followed
I see that you are a man of culture as well...
'Kona suba intensifies' to be more exact!
@@matthewgriffin9344 great show 10/10
Tenchi Muyo comes to mind.
How to write a good, powerful, well written character: Ahsoka Tano
I remember when people hated Ahsoka back in the day bc they thought she was annoying. So much has changed since then and look how beloved she grew to be. She's one of the top tier star wars characters now.
@@bowiesensei5574 She sucked the first couple of seasons. I didn't think she was annoying, she was annoying. I still hate her but the writing for her did improve a great deal.
@@Rikalonius I actually like her being annoying. Mostly because it shows her flaws and she was a teenager so it makes sense. It also shows how much she grows later on, so at least she has devlopment lol.
@@coffeelover5598 Fair enough, but in the first season she was fighting Asajj Ventress to a standstill and holding her own against Grievous. She was a disrespectful brat and everyone still loved her for it. She was singled out by Yoda for praise and attention. Yes, she grew as a character, and as I said, she became half-way decent, which is good, but she started off every bit the Mary Sue that Rey is. But, you are right, unlike Rey, she did occasionally fail at things.
My favourite Star Wars-character!
We want strong female CHARACTERS.... not strong FEMALE characters
Comparing the visual at 8:40 to the one at 8:45 tells you all you need to know about everything wrong with Disney SW.
Well said.
woooooooooooooord!
@@boomieboo 🤔 hm, i see...
Nailed it.
Question: Wouldn’t Yoda be alive in this time period if it is only 200 years ago and yoda is stated to be 800 years old?
Yeah, he's probably already a jedi at this point.
I think he would be top dog too
@@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk I swear he was grand master for like 300 years
Yes he’s definitely alive, obviously they are not going to reveal everything yet
700 years actually
no well written female character ever needed to be advertised as "strong female"; it got to the point where it realy is a label for playing the victim card to preemtivly silence all criticism
Great point.
None of these characters have been advertised in any way as "strong female". Pull your finger out mate
@@didds8869 ... Yes, Rey has. And so has Phasma. D-do you really have the memory of a squirrel?
@@patchmoulton5438 Rey I can kind of get. But Phasma? I didn't even realise she was a chick until we heard her talk. Besides, we're talking about these new jedi here. Not already established characters
@@didds8869 Do you seriously not remember all the interviews with her actor before the movie was released? Not that I can blame you on that one.
Lucasfilm has no talented writers. Their minds go:
"I invented a woman, she is an alien and she is brave and strong and the best at everything! I guess there is a man there too, he works for her and he is ok I guess."
Evil, incompetent, or servile. All men must be at least one.
Man, imagine if you portrayed any other group that way... You'd be a massive bigot...
I mean claudia Frey and charels soule are really good. Not to mention Timothy Zahn. Its fine to not trust Disney based off how poorly they handled the movies. But the comics and books that have come out in the past 6 years have been excellent in my opinion. And until the high republic releases i refuse to assume its sjw garbage. I need proof before I judge something. ( and no past transgressions is not proof they will fuck up these new characters)
@Tom The Fish *Pets the little child on the head* there there, you'll grow up one day.
@Lionard Kirsch - if you really want to see toxic then you should check out all the negative trolls who hate the sequels beyond common sense. There's a bunch of them
@@calemr Last time I checked, Captain Phasma was a woman and she was all three.
I don't care that she's a woman, but shouldn't the "best of the best" Jedi be Yoda? This whole thing sounds like fan fiction, just like the sequel trilogy
Fr
Yoda was such a badass because he was small and humble, but super wise and when he had to bust out his jedi he busted out hard. No one was fangirling over him in the jedi academy and no one needed to say he was the bestest of all, it was just obvious because he was like the old monk character.
@@Eay89 exactly
I wouldn’t be opposed to having a female character being one of the strongest jedi in the galaxy- heck, we’ve had a good few female sith and Jedi as well as the in between. It just has to make some sort of sense. Rey, doesn’t make sense until episode nine kind of. Luke, makes sense. Anakin, makes sense. They have a backstory and they have signs of growth.
Yoda was never meant to be a badass saber wielding Jedi. That's only since the Prequel bullshit. He was always about being wise and guiding the Jedi Order, not doing backflips and fighting with a tiny light saber.
I like strong written female characters, not forced cringeworthy Mary Sues which is what alot shows and and movies lean towards.
A strong female character is supposed to have flaws, weaknesses, needs guidance and help from friends or allies, is relatable, and inspires EVERYONE that they can come out on top even if things seem tough or hopeless; basically normal things that make you human.
Rey is the epitome of a Mary Sue where she doesn't need help, has everything handed to her with no training required, doesn't have any weaknesses, no trials to overcome, masters everything on the first try, makes all the men around her seem inferior, and just down right God awful character development.
These character descriptions are written as if the characters were in DnD.
"I'm casting Force Missile."
"Why are you casting Force Missile? There's nothing to attack here."
"I'm attacking the Dark Side."
@@thatHARVguy 😆👍
Made me remember this classic gem from 'Summoner'
ruclips.net/video/zng5kRle4FA/видео.html
you are not wrong but heeey, my improvised npcs in DnD are way better than Rey.
This fanbase doesn't hate quote unquote, "strong female characters." We hate poorly written and lazy characters who have no development.
LamsShipper 4Life Yes we do. We hate “Strong female characters”. What we don’t hate is “Female Strong characters”. Like ripley from alien.
Exactly
Retard Gaming would have been much more fitting to have said leia also changing the placement of a word dosent change the meaning of what the words mean 🤷♂️
@@grif419 So you hate Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Mara Jade, etc? They're all strong female characters.
LamsShipper 4Life he meant that we want strong characters that happened to be female (female strong characters) like ahsoka, leia etc. But what we dont want is female characters that need to be strong like every female star wars disney characeter.
I hate poorly written characters who’s only purpose is propaganda.
In case you don't know, it's "whose"
I agree with you
Queen Bitch KaNoMiko thank you. I honestly didn’t know tht. 🤷🏼♂️
Queen Bitch KaNoMiko no it’s who’sees’ohw
“Yo rape is bad and women should be treated with respect” *REEEEEE PROPAGANDA LIBTARDS RUINING STAR WARS REEEEEEEEEE*
"..be interested in reading a story, or watching a movie, where two strong women fought over a weaker man."
*Manga/Anime fans have entered the chat*
"Hey kid, wanna /ss/?"
Visual novel fans entered the chat as well
99.9% of the comments : we hate poorly written characters
This comment : WEEBS EXIST
@@knightmare3706 The worst anime garbage still has better written characters than the modern woke trash of the west.
Ara Ara has entered the chat
The outer rim was being explored in Revan's time, 3800 years before this show's timeline.
I grew up with Avatar the last airbender and TCW and I love the female characters there be it Padme, Bo Katan, Ashoka, Ventress, Katara, Azula and more. I don’t like Rey but it’s not because she’s a woman.
ATLA was an amazing show with incredibly well written characters, whether male or female. Aang, Katara and Sokka had a really good growth throughtout the seasons, Toph was super cool, Azula was a total badass, and Iroh was great too, but i always had a soft spot for Zuko, his character arc was really interesting (that's probably why i like Arcann so much in SWTOR, he really reminds me of Zuko).
Ewyna I know I always loved as child and now the episodes with Zuko and uncle Iroh I loved there chemistry. I even like them more than Katara Zuko and Aang. I don’t why but since my childhood I like villains more than heroes. That’s why Ep3 and 6 are my favorites it‘s the fall and redemption of Anakin
@@ontasbulent5709 Yeah, i think it's because of their relationship that i prefer Zuko and Iroh too. Iroh is very wise, and is pretty much Zuko's father because his actual father is a real jerk, he's also Zuko's moral compass.
And playing through KOTFE/ET in SWTOR, Arcann is pretty much what Zuko could've been without Iroh to guide him.
Well then why don't you like her?
katakisLives I liked her in the beginning of TFA but later her character began for me to fall apart it was the story that pushed her not the character. In 8 was the same and in 9 it was really obvious. Another reason you probably heard 100 times she‘s way overpowered. I just think she isn’t written that well.
The difference is Hayden didn’t go on tv and say things about females or males, Hayden took the trash talk and moved on ...and progressed.
which sucked because i thought he did a pretty great job with what he was given. hayden's an amazing actor and the only thing that people should've been upset about was the dialogue he was given
@@neon1hp I hate sand
daddylamb 69 I agree, while I absolutely hate Attack of the Clones, I do think the actors did the best with what they were given. Hayden nailed the look of Anakin it really felt like he was that character, no matter how badly written the script was, Revenge of the Sith I’d say is top 5 or 6 Star Wars movies too. And to change gears here, Hayden did not go on tv and bash the fans and call them names like other more recent movies have done I.e. Captain Marvel Ghostbusters 2016 Charlie’s Angles etc.
@@IIKnucklesII not his fault. He didn't write the script.
@@gokbay3057 I know, it's literally a meme at this point.
The SINGLE best written character in the extended universe -- in my opinion -- would be Kreia/Treya. She is complex, multilayered (cryptic as hell) and a driving force (heh) for the story of Kotor2. Oh and she's a women. But sure, there are no parts for women but sexualized, weak princess-esque types that are in need of being saved in fantasy...
@@emberfist8347 True, she did come on strong on a few (most) occasions. But at the same time, she really managed to get me thinking about stuff - not just the force - which can partly be attributed to me being immersed in the game but also to thought - provoking dialouge.
I would argue, that even from 'wrong' intentions, something great can arise - in this case a well done character in Star Wars. It is even suggested, that Kreia grew to hate the Force so strongly only after her students betrayed her. So her more extreme views on how the force should end and all can be somewhat excused (she tried both light and dark and saw firsthand how both failed to capture the nature of the Force and that both may well be just puppets of its will, striving to achieve some sort of balance at all times at the expanse of whole civilizations).
The old expanded universe is better than the crap the current regime has put out despite the flaws
And no I'm not going to blindly follow what some dumbass corporate buffoons tell me when they can't even competently maintain the cultural icon monolith that is Star Wars so much for their canon
@Alex Chaudhari wouldn't the more npc thing be to believe what overlord disney tells you?
Avar Kriss’ blurb makes her sound exactly like Rey: Her flaws are only positive in nature(“She tries to see the best in everything.) and she has no true drawbacks.
I disagree. Rey was kind of hot-headed and angry, which Avar doesn't sound like. Also, being too self-sacrificing can be a fault, because sometimes you just have to be mean and straight-forward to get what needs to be done done. If she's written well Avar could be an interesting character who learns to be more self-assertive, but that depends on the writers.
Earthling I think they meant that she won’t have any flaws that hinder her. Rey's conflicts never came due to her flaws and issues, which was a major problem of her character. It’s the same with Avar if she’s going to be badly written, in that her being too self-sacrificial won’t actually do her any harm nor will it make her unlikable to other characters.
You are basically describing most of the jedi in the films, minus Anakin I guess?
@@blitzwing5439 And the entire prequel trilogy is about how that is a bad thing and how that led to their failure.
@@Lazurath101 But the trademark of a mary Sue is that she is perfect in everything, the only "flas" she may have are entirely positive in nature and every "mistake" they make must turn out to be good afterwards. And Ava fits this 100%. She#s perfect, flawless, legendary, the only flaw she has is that she is nice, and i bet you the only mistakes she'll be allowed to make will turn out to be in everyone's best interest, just like Rey.
Rey is perfect and flawless in everything as soon as she sees it. First time in a spaceship? Knows how to repair it better than the guy who spend half a century working on this exact ship (and illegally modifying it btw, so even going "well she knew a ship like that" would not only be a lie but also stupid since it wasn't the same ship), first time she grabs a lightsaber? Kung-Fu master able of defeating the most powerfull Sith evurr, first time in a cockpit? Ace pilot. First time beeing captured? Immediate jedi master force powers. Lives her entire life in a deser and falls into a bottomless pit of water? Of course she immediately knows how to swim.
And even the TWO mistakes she made throughout the entire trilogy were actually good. She gets caught and taken to Starkiller base? Well yes but she not only frees herself and goes to save the people who came to rescue her, but she also found out this way what the weakness of the ase was and singlehandedly makes it so winning is even possible. So as it turns out, if she hadn't made that "mistake" everyone would have died.
Second, trusting Kylo Ren when the are in Snokes throne room? Well of course that was just because she was just WAY TOO NICE AND KIND. And also she was right as we see in episode 9.
And you'll see, Ava will be the exact same. Perfect, flawless, without weakness, character or mistakes.
So... A time period where Yoda is still a very powerful Jedi, yes?
Hence why I'm unsure as to how the Jedi culture can change so much and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi we have seen, can change from the noble chivalrous Jedi to the blind-to-the-force Grand Master Yoda in the Prequels. Not the best time period to choose, in my opinion.
@@peculiarpangolin4638 Yoda wasn't blind to the force in the prequels. Just because someone is a Jedi Master or Grandmaster doesn't mean they are all powerful and all seeing/omniscience. Palpatine himself was strong in the force and used the dark side to cloud everything. As a Sith, he was one of the most cunning and devious force users and was extremely patient in his planning the downfall of the Jedi Order (unlike some previous Sith lords who preferred to try and use overwhelming might or brute strength to defeat the Jedi). In Episode II, there's a scene where Yoda, Mace Windu and Obi-Wan talk about how the younger generations are acting more arrogant, more complacent, more over-confident in their abilities and not just padawans but also some older Jedi too. You see this in the same movie with Anakin in the beginning scene when they chase down the assassin, or when Anakin loses completely to Dooku who is a much more senior Jedi Master, with more experience and training.
ALwinDigital i what agree on both of your points but at the same time you have to look at this in the same stance that these are alien species not humans to us if you try to equate the amount of time it would take and learning and retaining any form of knowledge yes it comes with time but you’re talking about a Bing who literally in Canaan what is the strongest Jedi master The amount of time and the time. Not just for his species but other species that are also likely to be Jedi doesn’t equate to the amount of change needed between the years I think it’s also been stated that you have to realize the fact that you even mention Dooku who at the time was 70 years old so that means you go back to 70 years into that 200 years prior there’s only about 130 years so that means you have 130 years worth of basically story that realistically you’re able to tell what’s going on with again one of the most powerful force users in the history of the Jedi I understand and like I said I agree with your points as to how things were changing even in the prequel‘s but that was the time period in which things were changing That means that was basically the end Of everything that has led to the high republic basically the prequel’s are the end story of the high republic
Yeah Yoda was definitely Grand Master at this point in his life, even 200 years younger.
@@shawngaines1117 Trying to make sense if what you're trying to say.
Yes, the immediate era of Episodes I-III (prequel trilogy) would be the end of the story of the "High Republic era" (the High Republic era itself may cover a time period of roughly -900 years when it might have been the beginning or entry path towards the High Republic, the period of time when the Jedi Order believed the Sith to have become extinct, to around prequel trilogy era). The High Republic era time period would probably be the height of the entire history of the Galactic Republic and Jedi Order, before their eventual fall. The -200 year before rise of Palpatine could be the apex of the High Republic Era (after all, once a civilization reaches the apex, there is only a downhill path left.)
I love Star Wars for many reasons - and have ever since I was about 5 or 6 years old. I could relate to Luke, even though I'm a girl, because - like him - I was a small kid on a farm, who later moved to a small block on the outskirts of a small, isolated town, and I spent my days as an outcast dreaming of adventures beyond what I knew.
I love(d) the Force, and it's mystery, and the whole concept of having "magical powers."
Leia was my first strong female character role model. I never saw her as a supporting character. I saw her, Han, Luke, and Chewbacca as all main characters. They were a unit. The story couldn't work without them.
So, for Kennedy to say girls can't relate to male characters, that's just plain stupid.
If Luke had been a girl and Leia a boy would that have mattered. I think because of the time it was made there were still too many conventions to change that. When Luke wants to rescue a beautiful princess, it is just the old fairytales. Even now I think you'd have difficult with a woman wanting to rescue a handsome prince as it is very inbuilt into our psyche.
Watching films from the 50s (mainly) & other decades even though I am a heterosexual I always identified with the female character who loved the male lead and fought by his side only for him to end up with the willful princess (kind of the reverse of Ducky in Pretty in Pink if I have my 80s movies right). That character would often conveniently die. It was so unfair. Maybe that's just me.
Star wars has one of my favourite female characters:
Sabine, Hera, Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Mara Jade, Asajj Ventress, (even Darth Revan can be considert female in the original game) all of them are great written characters with distinct personality traits. They kick ass and look good while doing it. But we also see them strugle, fail and grow as a characters making them engaging and relatable.
That's why I didn't like Rey, she seems a static character throut the whole trilogy when you compare her to Luke or Anakin. She barely strugles and rarely loses and even her kick ass moments are out shined by other characters because they face opponents that are much more powerful then them and they don't have a plot armor to bale them out. (look at Force Awakens or Rise of Skywalker she just has to close her eyes for a moment and suddenly BOOM a power boost)
True
One of my favourite Sith is actually female. I absolutely love Darth Zannah. (She is from the Darth bane trilogy). To be honest I can't say that she's my favourite Sith of all time considering that there are a lot of Sith but she's definitely my favourite character between 1000bby and 32bby.
Wait, how can Darth Revan be considered female?
@@elmonoconzapatos7159 in kotor (his first appearance) you could choose your gender.
@@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk ohhhhh
First off, it there was a lot of stigma about boys liking these shows when I was growing up as well. Properties like Star Wars and Marvel and the like are only just gaining wide acceptance today. Twenty years ago, you were a geek or a nerd. and were bullied for being one But honestly, you want to compare and contrast what is wrong with this so called SJW movement and how women are portrayed, the best example is in the Trek universe, mainly Cathrine Janeway and Michael Burnham. Janeway was an excellent character, the first female lead of a trek show, the a-typical starfleet captain stuck on an impossible mission. Yet she was flawed. She could be obsessive, she was frequently wrong, she could be aggressive, and often cared so much more about her own ship, she lead to the destruction of possibly several words. Burnham...always right, never wrong, if anyone says something against her they are ether the bad guy or about to die. She has a bigger voice on her ship than the captain and everyone likes her, basically the classic Mary Sue. Well, imagine how I felt when an article about Burnham's show came out praising her and saying that there had never been a female Trek lead and had been as well written as she. Granted, the writing for Voyager was uneven, but it was bull. That's what Rey is. She's hyper perfect. She learns her powers over night having only just learned Jedi even existed, she doesn't struggle and nearly never made mistakes. And if she does, they are always someone else's fault. Compared that to Asoka or Jaina, or even Leia. I mean, my favorite Asoka episode is when she is captured and forced to fight on that deserted planet and really learns what it means to be a Jedi (I also hate watching it, its pretty emotional). But it makes her a lot more developed than perfect Rey whose biggest moment of development is learning she is Palatine's...granddaughter, clone something. But when you criticize that, no matter how right you are, that's when you are attacked.
Then, about there not being female leads in shows meant for women...has anyone seen many of the shows meant for girls in the past 30 years? My Little Pony, Twilight, Sailor Moon (which honestly I didn't know was actually aimed at girls when CN first showed it), they are all dominated by female characters, and tend to only have one or two male characters total. That is unless its a Twilight situation or of the teen genre where then you have the one girl surrounded by guys fighting over here (and there are a ton of examples of that...and I used to tell my sister every day how messed up that was, especially in this era). Yet, that's fine.
The MODERN strong female character is an affront to every strong female character from prior years, and even some of the more recent ones. I mean, as raw of a deal she got, I still love Azula from Avatar. And speaking of Azula, has anyone noticed how there aren't that many female bad guys anymore? I'm just going to end it here, this is already a dictionary but you get my point.
Avatar in general is such a great series with phenomenal characters. Iroh and Zuko are easily the best characters in Western animation, that almost goes without saying. But Katara, Azula, and Sokka are all incredible in their own right. Seriously anyone who hasn't seen this show should watch it when it comes back to Netflix on May 15.
@@matthewmazzatto8003 Its coming back? Good, I've never been able to watch the entire thing and I caught it just before Netflix took it off the last time.
It's funny because Korra is a terribly written character compared to Aang
@@ImmaLittlePip That's mainly because Aaang set the bar so high. I'd say compared to a lot other shows A:TLOK is pretty good, especially for a sequel. The problem is that TLA was TOO good and TLOK had a number of production issues back when it was airing. However, Korra was also quite a Mary Sue in her own right so there's that.
"has anyone noticed how there aren't that many female bad guys anymore?"
Fair point - there's not a single one in the SW sequel trilogy. (Phasma is revealed to be covertly working for the Resistance in a scene cut from Ep. 8!)
The reason we don’t like Rey is that she never actually loses. She’s just some godly character who is some highly trained Jedi 5 minutes after she picks up a lightsaber.
@Hunter Hall tbh her conflicted interest in Kylo Ren in TLJ was fun to watch especially using the perspective of romantic undertones. She was vulnerable and tempted which if they expanded upon it in the last movie she actually might have had an arc worth talking about
@@endaohalloran6649 Yet the only interaction she truly had with Kylo is that he tortured her for information and nearly cut her new friend in half with a Lightsaber. It's even worse when it was confirmed that the kiss at the end of Rise of Skywalker wasn't even romantic.
Luke: Needs to be saved on numerous occasions, needs to be trained how to use the force and wield a lightsaber, and needs a pilot to fly him.
Rey: Masters all these things first try and doesn't ever need saving.
@@LeeEverett1 yeah, and the only reason he could fly an X-wing was because he flew those t-16 skyhoppers at home with biggs which is made by the same company. The controls were VERY similar.
@Hunter Hall because she's a flawed character who blindly fell for their connection through the force? She's not perfect
Thor: "Not sure if anyone will de interested in story about 2 strong woman fighting over a weaker man"
Anime: *exist*
My son is ten. If he had only seen the Disney Trilogy then he wouldn't have been introduced to one strong male hero. That's all you need to know.
Oh boo hoo. Show him Marvel movies then. There is absolutely no shortage of movies with strong male characters.
Tim O And a strong female heroine: Princess Leia
Either Poe or Finn could have, but they belittled Poe for making correct decisions and made Finn into comic relief.
@Tim O 👏👏Sequel Trilogy👏👏 Why are you making it about gender like LucasFilm is doing?
@@andrewb9409 Talking about Star Wars here.
As somebody who has every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD, I agree. It's not about gender, it's about being a poorly written character.
And I loved Xena: Warrior Princess, even though I was well into my 20's when it came out!
There are plenty of female Star Wars characters that are female and “strong” the difference is they aren’t characters made specifically to pander to the female audience and agenda driven “fans.” Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Hera, Sabine, Cara to name a few of the main female characters from the films and shows.
>strong female character
>Padmé
>ಠ_ಠ
Have you seen the first two Prequel movies?
Etain Tur Mukan (the Republic Cammando novels are awesome)
@@swagromancer you clearly never watched the prequel movies or the clone wars TV show
@@ambervalkerie9134 I wish that were true. But I did.
isn’t the term “strong female” itself sexist, as it implies that the average female character is not strong?
“... stop telling little girls they can be anything they want... Not because they can’t, but because it would’ve never occur to them that they couldn’t.”
- Sarah Silverman
you right
If that were true then strong male character wouldn't be a term
No.
Feminists hate this trick😂
The thing i've never understood is those saying that there is a lack of leading women in Star Wars, but that's just wrong.
Princess Leia was the original 'strong female lead'.
In a New Hope she was the first of main three to be introduced, introduced as a political figure, a leader of the rebellion against the empire, she resists interrogation, watches her home being destroyed for the good of the rebellion, leads the rescue after Luke and Han mess it up, is shown to be a better shot, smarter and more reliable, and is the main reason they are able to win the day at the end of the film by providing the plans.
Luke is the one to blow up the death star because he is the protagonist, but Leia was responsible for every major victory in the film. She was always the more interesting character and always a role model for women and everyone else.
Liam Lynch starwars has so many good female characters, none of them were written to be the ULTIMATE FEMALE!!!! they were treated like dynamic and interesting characters who can grow and be relatable to
That is, until rey
leia, padme, ahsoka and Shaak ti to some extent (she was in charge of the clone production) are all strong females but Disney just looks past it all
Nomi Sunrider, Mara Jade, Meetra Surik, Bastilla Shan... Anyone claiming "there is a lack of leading women in Star Wars" must not actually know anything about Star Wars.
Ahsoka became so powerful she used the force to rip the crystals out of an inquisitor's lightsaber killing him instantly, and yet she's one of many star wars fans favorite characters (despite being hated when introduced).
Nobody hates strong female characters (unless they are literally an incel), they just don't like poorly written characters.
Although I will point out that too many people give poorly written male characters a pass.
So the real "Strong Female Character" in Star Wars are: Leia, Padme, Sabin, Ahsoka and a bunch of other that I can't name because it would be too long but they all are in the Prequel and Original Saga
Edit: Oh and I also forgot in the video games too even if they are not canon anymore but still.
I’m still trying to stay optimistic. I feel like an abused housewife that just keeps coming back
And Kathleen kennydey is the husband figure
This is a perfect analogy for our love/hate of Star Wars
Omg 😂😂😂😂
Your optimism is misplaced. Lucasfilm doesn't deserve it. You don't have to be optimistic to be a Star Wars fan. “If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed.”
Better than being miserable.
Disney is run by the Empire, never have I ever saw a more human centric Star Wars story.
No Joke
legit
IKR I just want more aliens
Even the empire was better than this
Asokha: strong female *character*
Rey: strong *female* character
There is a huge difference
Yes • 14 years ago dude your name confused me for a second
More like
Ahsoka: strong character
Rey: female
Or maybe
Ahsoka: STRONG female character
Rey: strong FEMALE character
Avar Kriss: I am the most noble example of jedi-hood
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Am I a joke to you?
Nobody is more noble than Space Jesus.
@@Xiphactinus i am imply here that disney says avar is the postergirl of the the jedi when we all know that the posterboy of the jedi is obi wan kenobi
Barnabas Sebesteny1 yeah I was in agreement.
RRRRRREEEEEEYYYYYY!!!!
Kenobi be S++ teir. She cant compete😤
I honestly don’t think the problem with Rey was Daisy Ridley’s acting. She’s a great actress in my opinion. The reason why Rey’s character is so flawed is because she was badly written with barely any character development. She’s so flat. It has nothing to do with Daisy.
I think you mean it doesn’t have anything to do with her acting. It has everything to do with Disney. They are the ones that made her a bad character. I haven’t seen any of her other movies but I will take your word for her acting
@@liamgossard526 Daisy not Disney
Everyone I know thinks daisy did a awsome job with what she had, only issue is as I said, is she had nothing. Despite this though when I went to the theater for the last jedi and the force awakens I loved the action, wasnt until I got home and put on my nerd glasses that I realized for both of these films, the writing and agenda was awful.
@Hunter Hall. Aw! I also happen to know the basics of HEMA and am a fencer, I agree with all you said but if you look at it in real time its hard to see all the small flaws in their lightsaber skills, yes, the over swings are telegraphical, and all around both Rey and and Kylo fight like peasants with a sword, but I don't believe either trained for it unlike Ewan McGregor. But looking at it once, and for a purely flashy scene it was alright since most flaws were to fast to see.
@@Helphine. Kinda hard to ignore that the Prequels had amazing choreography that truly made it look like it was Jedi fighting while this new trilogy not only has slow, boring movements, but The Last Jedi's climax flatout has weapons disappear constantly.
KK: StRoNg fEmAlE ChArAcTeRs
Fans: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old WAHman?
KK: ThE FaRcE Es fEmAlE
Fans: So you have choosen... Death
@@splashnskillz37 NAZI! (Said in mark Hamil's voice)
Funny that you say “farce”, because that’s.... technically the truth.
Still bringing up a t-shirt designed and worn for a Nike shoe promotion. So you idiots even have a semblance of a clue? Apparently not
@@brianreed1859 How about hiring based on gender?
So they are just acting like Leia and Ahsoka fans doesnt exist?
R.I.P Carrie Fisher
If you dislike one bad female character who’s there for woke purposes (Rey): You’re sexist.
If you like multiple female characters that have personalities, motives, beliefs, have actual reasons for being there, and are genuinely good characters (Leia, Padmé, Ahsoka, Jyn, Hera, etc.) but aren’t there for woke purposes: You’re still sexist.
Well that’s weird.
Have you figured it out yet?
Yeah it’s gotten to the point where simply saying you like Ahsoka makes you a target
Whenever people use the "You don't like strong female characters!" Act. I'll be like:
Bastila Shan
Ahsoka Tano
Leia Organa
Padme Amidala
Kreia
Aayla Secura
Shaak Ti
Mon Mothma
Meetra Surik
Mara Jade
Don't forget Meetra Surik and Kreia
Excellent examples. I feel like disney justs sits in their ivory tower jerking each other off. Do they not understand how pissed off a LARGE majority is at them for their agenda bullshit?
@@splashnskillz37 I was tempting to add Meetra but her ending is so rush. And yeah Kreia is badass in so many ways.
While we're at it:
Sarah connor, Ellen ripley, The bride, Black widow, the OG charlies angels, wonder woman, Alita... it goes on and on
Geez, why does everybody include Padmé in these lists. She was a joke of a character.
idiots really think “strong female character” means a female character who is powerful. it doesn’t. it means a female character who is written well/as an actual character. the problem with this misconception is that the stronger these female characters are, the more underwritten they tend to be. leia is a strong female character. ahsoka is. padme is. rey is not
Exactly. So with the push for "strong female characters", they just make female characters that are physically stronger, not better written. The most ironic thing is that with this entire movement pushing for stronger female characters, almost no progress has been made because no one's looking at it the right way. In a lot of ways (like comparing Rey to Leia), it's actually made it worse. I'd much rather have fewer female characters that have time and thought put in, and are actually well made, then have a bunch of female reboots that are terribly written.
Caleb Hawk i think you’re being modest; it’s absolutely made it a lot worse
I interpret it differently; Leia, Ahsoka, and Padme are characters, great characters. Rey is a 'strong female character'.
AACM12 Ahsoka would win against Ray in an instant. Her white lightsabers were made from crystals she ripped out of an inquisitiors lightsaber, causing the hilt to explode and killing the inquisitior instantly. That kind of raw force power is almost unheard of.
Ahsoka is both better written, and ends up more powerful then Ray could ever dream to be.
@@elk3407 I think you missed the point of my comment.
i love how, in a world of huge space battles, laser guns and swords, magic levitating power, and aliens, the #1 thing disney worries about is if the fans can relate to the characters
Because... the audience being able to relate to characters is key for their investment in the story? Unless you just want pretty colors flashing in front of your face
How can Avar Kriss be the 'best' jedi at this time, if Yoda is there?
...that’s an actual good question! How is she better than Yoda?!?
Because Mary Sue
@@KomodoMagic 'cause she got bewbs? Bewbs improve everything, don't you know that??
Because retcon. Yoda lied in ESB when he told Luke he trained Jedi for 800 years. The ACTUAL STORY is Yoda was actually a female called Yodina at one point but couldn't excel at anything because patriarchy. Stuff happened, then Yodina met and was was trained by Avar Kriss to become the best. Yodina became the best but couldn't get on the high council because she was female. So Yodina got a sex change, changed his/her name to Yoda and BOOM, we see Yoda in TPM.
@@kaptinbarfbeerd1317 Disney writers: brilliant, let's do that!!
The intentions of these caricatures are made very clear by the writers. They don't want to make characters who have inherent flaws or create flaws that can't easily be solved by just being told to simply "believe in yourself". I don't see anything interesting or any aspects of these characters that display a sense of individuality. All of the characters are described as respected teachers from the male characters and the female characters are all mainly being described as powerful, smart, kind and selfless. Basically, all of the characters hardly have major flaws that requires a journey or an adventure to exploit that flaw and then convince the characters to change for the better. Instead we have morally perfect paragons who are dull and are no different from one another. If you were to pick any one character description out of random, most likely it would neatly describe all of the characters. This is why I have a problem with Disney star wars and it's two-face attempt to both pander to a small group who preaches on identity politics and half ass attempt to keep the fans and the general audience. They focus too much on politics and implementing it in books and movies it almost seems like its entirely a propaganda driven project. The underlying themes are so obvious it may as well be in your face screaming at you. If they focused more on creativity, I think anyone can come up with a better idea than space Vikings as mentioned in the video on the high republic.
Are you sure you’re being too knee deep in this considering half of these writers are actually liked?
Perfectly said
@@achaudhari101 I've seen a few writers who are well respected in the video introducing the high republic, however the rest of the story group is overall made up of writers who aren't usually known for creating scifi fantasy books and novels. They are credited for other works. It's very similar to DC hiring Melissa De La Cruz to make a riverdale/twilight novel series of the Batman IP. The characters and the general direction of the book series is going the opposite way of gaining the most net profits and instead doubling down on non-genuine woke politics being shoved down our throats. I'm sure they'll introduce some concepts to expand the lore or maybe even expand the world building of the star wars universe, but just looking at the names of the new characters we are given and they do not sound like something from star wars. Instead, it sounds almost too similar to certain names from the tv and book series Game of Thrones. Overall, if you think the new books will be good and if you loved all of the sequel trilogy then good for you. I wish I can like this new stuff, but for me I believe in consistency of Canon and the overall continuity of the franchise because you can't always treat every story like it's an anthology or else the sequel trilogy would be excused from not introducing anything new or exciting while actively rejecting all of the aspects that makes a franchise great from the overall convoluted story that is Star wars. That's the point about star wars, who is this franchise for? It certainly can't be for everyone because clearly men who disagree on the direction of star wars will be marginalized on the internet for having a different opinion that has nothing to do with any misogynistic or sexist connotations. It's not for the women because even female star wars fans don't like any of this new content. Matter of fact, there are a number of channels on RUclips that actively boycott it. And it is not pandered to the fans because fans of all genders and ages would get criticized for calling out Disney for its unconventional business practices and then be made fun of by the directors, writers, and crew members from Lucasfilm for years now. Please Alex Chaudhari, who is this franchise for? Because it seems like nobody wants anything to do with star wars because Disney wants to try soo hard to please everyone when the average person very well knows that is nothing short from the impossible.
I'm just waiting for the scene in the High Republic where Rey Neo uses the force to turn water into wine and uses a Porg to feed hundreds of hungry Gungans cuz she's the bestest EVAH.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that thinking of flaws and overcoming them with belief, as we saw that with the Younglings in The Gathering - but I do agree with what you mean; Jedi at this particular age shown should have outgrown such things and gotten more self-restraint and better training and control by now.
All I know is this. When this fails, the fans are going to be blamed.
its going to fail - and yes its the fans doing - and yes I am proud of the fandom
And that's what it all comes down to. It's a convenient scapegoat for when Disney/LuKennedy knows they've rushed out another steaming pile in order to placate shareholders and it fails to meet projections. It can't possibly be that they hector the life out of their creators and talent and put them on impossible schedules in order to meet press and merchandising deadlines.
Phillip Emery Or drove the fans away from the insults from their employees due to said poor decisions.
I will gladly kill Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars until it the franchise is given to a decent custodian without a California college girl agenda.
To be more specific, the white male part of the fanbase
Bringing Rey in the way the did ruins the point of the “hero character “
They need to learn how to use their powers and not master them without any training
They are running it right into the galactic ground....😒 at light speed
You mean the "Holdo Maneuver." LOL
Well, that energy has to go somewhere.
Nah, they long since passed that and went into 'Ludicrous' speed in their search for more money.
Nah, at this rate, they're going into plaid.
@@sarge1408 🤣
My problem is that they totally ignored the characters that came before Rey. Ben was supposed to be the better trained villain, he was trained by Luke and Snoke A.K.A. Palpatine but still, Rey by downloading some information from Ben's mind, suddenly is an outstanding force user. Sure, people would say: "But hey, Luke suddenly was a great force user too out of nothing." But people need to understand that we saw Luke struggling during his training and when he also fought Vader. We didn't get to see that with Rey. Obi Wan and Yoda decided to hide from the Empire when they both failed their missions, but they knew how to keep their hope in the most difficult times. But Luke, the one who was supposed to be the beacon of hope, ended up hiding and full of guilt just because he saw a dark vision that Yoda once told him that the future is not always what you see.
Random sjw: "Women can't relate to male characters..."
My mum: "Luke Skywalker is my favourite character."
This isn't the argument.
More women would be more likely to invest in more traditionally male dominated media if they were able to relate to multiple different women on screen at a time. The same way that boys could choose between liking Luke or Han in the originals, 2 completely different characters, having multiple female characters enriches media for everyone to enjoy more
@@endaohalloran6649 Well done for stating the obvious.
@@princeprocrastinate6485 you're welcome
I've always never liked Leia and Padme growing up, there were a few prequel female Jedi I like but not many. My favorite character in all of Star Wars is Anakin Skywalker. I have loved him sense the first time I watched The phantom menace.
@@wildheart625 Anakin was my favourite when I was younger, and I always liked Leia from a young age. I don't really have a set favourite anymore, but Anakin/Vader, Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka and Han are among the best characters imo.
Rey had too much skills, she was poorly written, she also has a lot of Mary Sue Traits that in the long run ruined her character in all the movies, Here are 10 of em.
1. Finds the part to fix the Falcon. (I know she grew up in a junkyard like planet but come on this was stupid the Falcon has special parts to it and yet she knew a tie fighter part can fix the ship. Bull crap)
2. Finds out how to poison people in the falcon. (Mary Sue Trope again, if you were a normal character maybe have her think "Oh this might work" not "I know this will work!")
3. Rey is able to mind trick a 1st order trooper (Mind you, Luke didn't do this at all until episode VI Return of the Jedi. Imagine if he did do this in Episode IV yes I know the Death Star Run was him using the force sort of but not this broken like Rey.)
4. Rey is able to use the force without any hint that she was a Jedi or force sensitive. (This was completely dumb and stupid of them to even do this, and this part of the movie always bothered me the most.
5. Rey is able to use a light saber even though she had no training to even know how to use it. (Again we didn't see Luke do this in Episode IV imagine if he did would star wars even be loved for that? We didn't see Anakin do this in Episode I neither.)
6. Rey was able to go to the Darkside and Lightside of the force. (This again was a poorly written part of the movie and with no reason behind it, maybe they could've had her see something that shows what might become of her like they did with Anakin and Luke?)
7. Rey convinces Kylo to kill Snoke and team up (Again no reason behind this, I will give it to Episode IX that they did try to redeem Kylo on that movie by having him see his dad's ghost but The Last Jedi really left us a stinker for a story and we all know it.)
8. Rey saves everyone (This is a very annoying trope that has been bothering me in every video game, anime, show, movie. Why did she have to be the one and not Luke he could've told them about a different Exit but no let's give it to Rey she awesome.)
9. Rey beats Papatine (Kind of minor but was really hoping for a way better death then the way he died in this movie. I was hoping he would have used his Red Lightsaber and started fighting her but nah he dies the lamest way possible.)
10. Rey is revived by Kylo then Kisses by him. (NO! I just hated this part so frinken' much! There was so much wrong with this part, she showed no signs of loving him this was stupid writing again! Kylo... no he can't just do "Oh yeah I know how to revive someone ta da! Oh I love you now." That is not how you do a plot. He should've been left alive instead of Rey. Because this would've thought him that the sins he has committed make him lose everything he cared about.)
Bonus one 11. Before people reply saying I am being a sexist because I hate this female character, WRONG! There are plenty of Star Wars female characters that shine so well in the Star Wars Canon, there are a lot in Origin Trilogy movies and prequels, The Clone Wars, Rebels, and hell even video game Fallen Order has Female characters that where well made. Just Rey, she needed a better Writer then whoever thought this was a amazing story for her. Palpatine should not have even been related to her this is what made her a worse character In my opinion. and the Her dying part would have been better as a Hero with no name death. because get it? She was the last Palpatine Line and having the name die would have been a way better plot ending but nope we can't have that.
There's a lot more issues but I will end the list here.
It annoyed me that she somehow knew how to fly a ship, and her constant cocky attitude like “i can handle myself” to Han Solo straight pissed me off. At first i didn’t agree that Rey was a mary sue until i recently got Disney + and rewatched the sequels. Couldn’t even get halfway through TFA.
I hate how she called herself a Skywalker she isn't deserving of such a name to me
Nice
She, and TLJ could have been redeemed entirely if she'd accepted Kylo's offer in the throne room after defeating Snoke's guards.
It would have taken the entire movie series in a really unexpected and interesting direction. And they'd foreshadowed this the entire movie. Kylo had been grooming her and her fall would have felt more realistic than even Anakin's fall.
I have tried explaining this to my sister and her gay best friend, but they still follow the SJW line of thinking - women are under-represented, critics are just sexist trolls, etc.
They should’ve developed a story about the nightsisters, all women, all badass, all interesting and familiar
I don't know what's so interesting about the Nightsisters. They're just Wicca amazons and the CIS killed them all anyway.
Vetarlit Torf still more interesting than Rey, just an idea, but it was pretty dope seeing grievous go ham on them
A matriarchal society where women rule and use magic and men are used as warriors and slaves? You’re okay with that, but not this?
@@vetarlittorf1807 In 600 BBY Allya a female Human Jedi Knight was expelled from the Jedi Order and exiled to a penal colony on Dathomir. She used the planet's strong life energy to teach the colony's women to master the Force. These women became the Witches of Dathomir and Allya was their founder.
From Legends with Love.
Blake Tyson thank u for corroborating my friend 🤟🙏
thor skywalker is one of the most underrated channels
No Internet. True
i think it is most populer i see his Video get double or even more review than channel bigger than him people care for quality
Thanks for saying that, I honestly just appreciate those who watch my videos and allow me to this. If anyone is underrated around here, it's how great of an audience I have.
Yeah, he’s solid. He gets some big views though sometimes. Not always, unfortunately.
@@thorskywalker I really appreciate your measured analysis on topics like this, it is something that many channels fail to accomplish. Thanks for all your hard work :)
Jean Grey, Storm and Rogue all main characters with the main story arcs of Chris Claremont's run on XMen. The bulk of his run was written around Jean. Storm lead the team! Magik, Moonstar again, main characters on Claremont's New Mutants run. She-ra, Xena, Red Sonja. I'm so sick of these lies.
I'm a woman who LOVES fantasy and scifi. I read Dune and it was life changing. My copies of Roy Thomas Conan and Red Sonja are so worn from being read over and over and over. I also was "the cool girl" because I liked this stuff (and basketball) and never experienced any real stigma after I proved my need cred.
I'm a woman and I also relate more to Jaime Lannister than any other character in current popular writing. I'm a woman and the gender doesn't matter. I understand his struggles with living up to expectations and the judgement of others. Why? Because he's a well written and relatable character! My other favorite character is Paul Atreides. Go figure...
You know who doesn't appeal to me? Captain Marvel and Rey. They're awful examples of human beings, writing and lack anything interesting about them.
This crap needs to stop. Let characters speak for themselves with their own genuine voices. People can smell tripe a thousand miles away and that is what this is.
I loved Claremonnt's run on X-Men, those were the days... And I'm almost ashamed to admit as a huge sci if/fantasy fan that I've never read dune. I recently bought the first book but haven't gotten to it yet.
Actually, we need more strong wookie characters, we can't just have human characters.
Gungi trilogy when?
A few things:
1. Star Wars is for *everyone* to love and enjoy.
2. Star Wars has always had many strong and above all else *well written* beloved female characters, long before Disney and Kathleen Kennedy started beating the "Force is female" drums.
3. Kathleen Kennedy and her agenda pushing clique at Lucasfilm should learn to take *constructive criticism* from the fans and see it for being just that without comparing it to "hate", "sexism", "racism" and etc. bullshit.
Well here's the issue: as soon as people start to call it an agenda, it becomes way harder to believe that you're making these arguments in good faith. If it was only about writing issues, race and gender would have never been brought up
Examples of strong female characters who are not complete shite: Bastila Shan, Kreiya, Darth Talon, and Ahsoka
@@ataruDev that's Lucasfilm's excuse to cover up for their poor writing.
@@dimenzed That doesn't really change my point. When people come at Rey calling her a "Mary Sue" instead of a "poorly written character" it's way harder to believe that they aren't sexist. Even if they aren't and have legitamete points, they often continue to spread the rhetoric used by bigots.
Edit: We were not saying the same thing
When people present writing problems alongside sexism and bigotry, it becomes impossible to take any of their points in good faith, which is where most of the sequel trilogy criticism lands for me
Why do so many of them have spunky modern day haircuts?
Because who make these characters are trying to make avatars of themselfs. Holdo = kathleen kenedy
Because weird haircuts are just a thing in Star Wars.
@@ajzeg01 but it had more reasons than whata fashionable right now
Miguel Grau Leia’s hair had a reason? Amidala’s hair?
@@ajzeg01 I didnt say weird. I said spunky modern day...
"not sure what world they grew up in."
College, they grew up in college literature studies. Or in forums ran by people who took college literature studies.
Having a strong female character will never be a problem, having a character be strong just because they are female is a problem.
There seems to be this weird thought with modern ‘writers’ these days.
if a female character can do anything and accomplish any feat without struggling,audiences will find them heroic and inspiring when in fact it usually ends up being the exact opposite. If you have two characters, one that saves the universe without struggling and kills the god of evil, and another that’s weak and struggles but in the end saves their village or even just a friend or family member with the help of their companions, odds are the latter will be more appealing because it shows the character at their weakest and shows the connection between them and their companions, this is usually the mid act low point. Sometimes the former will have a moment like this, but it’s often unearned and out of nowhere, like in captain marvel, she’s captured and so are her companions and she’s just found out all her memories were lies, but we don’t see her struggle, all she does is literally take of a sticker and she’s rewarded with more power. No struggle, no development, no characterisation, nothing. She breaks out all by herself without any help. If a female character relies on others for help, that doesn’t make them unheroic or weak, it makes them relatable and inspiring when they pull through as a team. One of the protagonists I look up to most, is Violet Evergarden, someone who is basically unable to live through life without someone ordering her around due to how she grew up. If you haven’t watched Violet Evergarden, I highly suggest you do so.
Hence why Captain Marvel barely appeared in Endgame. And when she did, Thanos punched her in the face.
Kinda like Goblin Slayer of JOJO where if they didn't have those friends,they wouldn't even have reached the first destination
I suggest you guys have a look at Shin Megami Tensei:Persona,There's an Array of Strong Female and Male characters,they all have their unique traits and Flaws,the whole plot of the Games is the characters embracing their Flaws to Gain Power,if you can't Play any of the Games,you can watch Playthroughs on RUclips, trust me,it's Worth it,the Stories are some of the most Well Written and Relatable on Media.
Yeah, I am a misogynist, all right?
I can't see these 'stronk female characters' under the shadows cast by Wonder Woman, Red Sonja, Xena, Storm, Rogue, Supergirl, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Valeria, Bastilla Shan, Ahshoka, Violet Evergarden, Mikasa Ackerman, Kassandra, and more.
Tom The Fish I would at the very least disagree with you about Ripley she is a great character period.
@Tom The FishMen with tits? I don't think you've seen or read the movies, books and comics these characters come from.
@Tom The Fish Not an argument troll boy. Come back when you gain the honesty within yourself to have a good genuine discussion.
*yawn* another argument online that basically resulted in both sides telling the other to duck off.
@@chappy1374 What, you dont tell trolls to duck off? Not Frank hardy's fault tom the fish's top priority in life right now is being a troll
I love strong female characters in Star Wars especially Ahsoka Tano, she is one of the best characters in the Clone Wars.
She's lovely. Looking forward to see Rosario Dawson in that role. 🤩
Sudip Bose I’m excited but since her voice was in the rise of Skywalker as a ghost, are we going to see her die
Kreia!!!
@@rubbersoul9462
Oh. Shit. 😭
Lionard Kirsch she’s not confirmed dead yet. We know that force users can talk across the galaxy when they aren’t dead. Also she wouldn’t even be at half-life yet age wise during episode 9
"Strong, Female Characters"
Kreia is very weak with the force, yet people tend to listen to her...
Where the hell are all the aliens?!
Amazing how we live in this supposedly “diverse” galaxy but they would rather have different skin toned humans instead -_-
(No togruta, no mon kolamari, no chiss, no Wookies, no new aliens, etc)
Also, it wouldn’t bug me if these characters turn out to be well written, but it’s hard to optimistic considering their distinct lack of success :/
No George Lucas...
Aren't a couple of these Jedi aliens?
I saw a picture of a wookie Jedi in the High Republic stuff.
Well there is a Mirialan among those Jedi, but I agree. I would love to see more aliens as Jedi (even some races who you don't typically associate with the Jedi, like Rodians, Devonians or Sallustans, etc)
Prosthetic Quilt Chiss Jedi would be very interesting, since the Chiss were allied to the empire in the times of the old republic, the twist after the conflict would be interesting specially regarding the fate of their race as a whole.
Interesting how they keep creating "strong female characters" but sideline nonwhite characters like Finn.
Almost like... they have an agenda.
Unsurprisingly showing a complete lack of imagination by making Avar Kriss, the best of the best, a blonde white woman.
MrHawger Hoenstly the idea of a rogue stormtrooper would have been an amazing story element. The first to be questioned as a spy, even getting tempted to become a spy for both sides due to his history and current placement. He should feel something for other troopers, maybe intentionally missing shots due to not wanting to kill another cog like he used to be. He could continually look down on the rebels he joined, seeing them in the propaganda-filtered eyes and constantly trying to correct them, slowly seeing why they fight or do what they do. He could be a key in turning more regiments of troopers, dawning his old armor and trying to turncoat more of his old allies. Fin, without even any other influence like Poe, could have been an amazingly interesting character with the potential he was given. He could have been so much more...
Finn should have been a stormtrooper turned by the force to the light side and became the next jedi or "last" jedi. What's worse was the tfa trailers led this thought.
@Char Aznable they stole a stormtrooper turned jedi from us
They could have at least given Fin something more than screaming REYYY every 5 minutes he could have freed all the other stormtroopers who were also child slaves and were capable of becoming self aware/ defecting but soon after he learns this he still mows through them without hesitation
@@Balomis She's the bestest Jedi, Avar!
This whole problem could have been avoided by simply puting a good author in charge of Rey from the beginning. Someone who could have understood a strong character doesn't have to be super girl with a light saber.
In order to overcome a weakness, a character must have them in the first place. That's what being a strong lead is all about: overcoming weaknesses, accepting your flaws and growing as a person because of it.
I just don’t understand Rey, and the people who like her. Literally Rey is the most pathetic Jedi ever.
Even some rabid feminist writers (not willing to look for the video now) have underhandedly admitted they don't like her but are not really allowed to say so.
If you look at the character of Anakin, he is a brat with power who’s pissed that life doesn’t go the way he thinks it should.
@@noone8418 at the bare minimum he had training and was already shown to be ultra reckless and strong headed as a child, rey had no back story and was a perfect pilot and amazing at near everything immediately, I think anakin lost a hand and multiple lightsabers and a nice scar on his face as well, showing at the very least that he makes mistakes that have consequences, rey's mistakes mend nearly immediately and leave nothin lasting really
@No One he’s a guy born by the force, literally, wonder why he has any issues
She wipes the floor with Kit Fisto, just saying
I'm an inspiring author, and what I'm finding out from my reviewers these days is that a story HAS to have a strong female character. If they like to dress in dresses, have tea parties, or even paired with a male in any way, that gives them an immediate WEAK quality, and is dismissed by the feminists as a garbage character. I find this really unfortunate. Nothing just serves the story or the world-building anymore, instead, it has to push an agenda. That's really unfortunate, because it handicaps you from creating good memorable characters.
David Kraft I‘m sorry to hear that. But I‘m sure if you ignore those people and just write a good story, there would still be a lot who want to read it. Maybe even more than otherwise, since good stories are getting rare nowadays.
As cliche as it sounds ignore the crazies , focus on writing a good story. Not some propaganda to appease some vocal jerks. It may be a challenge but challenges are meant to be overcome
I find it so ironic that I, a seventeen year old female who is NOT a tomboy relates to male characters more than females.
Here’s a list of some of my favorite characters from some of my favorite franchises:
1. Jackson Overland Frost (Dreamwork’s Rise of the Guardians)
2. Edward Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist)
3. K2SO, IG11, & L3 (Rogue One/The Mandalorian/Solo: A Star Wars Story)
4. Doctor Strange (Marvel)
5. Naruto, Sai & Temari (Naruto)
6. Literally any of the My Hero Academia characters except Mineta
7. Raleigh Beckett and Mako Mori (Pacific Rim)
I find it interesting to notice that over half of the characters who I consider my personal favorites and that I relate to are male or in the case of droids, programmed to be male. It doesn’t and shouldn’t matter what the gender of the character is. It just needs to be a good character with proper development and story arc.
This is probably more of the case that writers, producers and directors are more often than not male, and they themselves relate more to the male experience and generally create more relatable male characters because it's easier to get into that headspace. A solution to this problem would be to have a more gendered balance in these fields allowing for different real life experiences to shape these characters
The point of relating to a character is based on their development, not their fucking gender. They have it so wrong these days.
Hunter Hall he would be first if not for Jack Frost XD
@Hunter Hall movies have always been about profits, that's what this whole capitalism thing is all about. If you think that's a problem, that'll be a different topic but we just have to take that as a given. Studios just want to make money and that's it.
The Star Wars problems go much deeper than an even ratio of men to women. From not having a clear 3 movie vision from the beginning. To allowing Rian Johnson free reign to make the movie he wanted only to then try and retcon his movie after backlash from some fans. This is just poor planning on behalf of Disney and Lucasfilm. The same way Universal poorly planned their 'Dark universe' to how Fox poorly handled their Marvel properties, to Warner Bros. poorly planning their D.C universe. An equal gendered split isn't evidence as a cause for these problems.
And yes well written female protagonists do exist, but they are rare. Let's make them much more even with men. That's all that we are saying
Best written female characters in star wars:
Bastilla Shan
Mara Jade
Leia Organa
Mon Mothma
Ashoka Tano
You know what they all have in common?
They're all well written characters who have strengths AND WEAKNESSES.
They all face challenges that effect them physically AND mentally/emotionally. They overcome their problems over time and not just in one movie. Either through lots of training, or just learning from their mistakes.
what about Padmé?
@@renthealternative147 padme was interesting until episode 3. She was just a stand in. She was really interesting in 1,2, and the clone wars series.
You left out Tahiri, Jaina, Tenel Ka, Admiral Daala, Winter...
GI JOE, Voltron, Thundercats. Thor, u had a good childhood.
Avar Kriss: I always seethe good in people
Luke Skywalker: Am I a joke to you?
SJW's: HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE FEMALE CHARACTERS OR CHARACTERS OF DIFFERENT ORIENTATION?!
Me, watching Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh and other anime: Wat?
Girls un panzer: eat lead dickhead
@@randomuser5443 lmao
Balalaika from Black Lagoon would kick all their candy asses. And keep her cool the whole time. Black Lagoon should be required reading for anyone wanting to write strong female characters.
Funny how you mention Sailor Moon. She is as big of a Mary Sue as Rey is. But unlike Rey, Sailor Moon is likeable, fun to watch, and builds the characters around her in a way that allows them to develop and play off of her.
Sailor Moon is a Mary Sue. But she's a Mary Sue done right.
*Clare from Claymore and Xena enters the room*
Remember when star wars had actual compelling female characters? Yeah good times.
They still do! Thank Filoni for the Mandolorian!
Wouldn’t Yoda still be the most powerful during this time period?
She-Ra. I don't know how to write her name, but I mean He-Man's sister. It was a pretty feminine cartoon, but it was a pretty good one.
So... Spot on.
She-Ra.
@@RedLeader327 Thanks! Corrected. 🖖😊
I actually enjoyed the old She-Ra cartoon more than the old He-Man cartoon back in the day.
I agree with “I don’t hate female characters, I hate poorly written ones” I’d like to add that I don’t hate strong female characters but hate strong female characters who are female just for the sake of being female in order to ingratiate the recently emerged trend of thought and focuses only on being a female and carry no plot value and does not make the movie better whatsoever. Or weak female characters whose importance are emphasized by deliberately making male characters even more weak. A lot of cultural product have stopped producing intriguing story like the clone wars or epic actions like Anakin vs Dooku but instead busy replacing white men with brown women, as if being white or male is a crime. I am Asian by the way
I recently had a similar discussion about how Netflix shoehorns political correctness into anything they can, with the most recent example being La Casa De Papel, a series I _love_ - but it really bugged me how they added the transsexual cousin, I don't mind LGBTQ, but the fact that it added literally nothing to the series besides a bit of virtue signaling when they talked about how Denver doesn't understand that "she" has been a girl the whole time, it felt really inappropriate and destroyed a lot of the immersion for me... Like, "we have a gripping series about a masterly planned bank heist, by the way, LGBTQ is a thing and normal and you need to accept it, now back to the bank heist"
Fair enough, but many fans "hate poorly written female characters" to a degree that's far more vocal than than their hatred of poorly written male characters - and often cite "feminist/anti-white male agendas" in the process. For better or worse, a lot of people feel that they are currently "under attack" by Disney/Hollywood and the idea that it's deliberately making male characters weaker to encourage more sales to women. There's certainly always an argument for good/better writing, but I'm not convinced that all the anti-SJW/Mary Sue complaining is really that argument - and I think that many of those complaining would be happy if more characters were simply male, even if they weren't better written.
@@Malt454 Can you name a recent male character that is a s poorly written in a major release? These Mary Sues are classic in that they are simply virtue signals, Rey, the recent Terminator and Charlies Angels crew are examples.
@@killcat1971 - Kylo Ren was alright, although a Darth Vader knockoff, but I wasn't impressed with any of the new characters in the new trilogy - people can't tell me that Poe or Finn were well-written characters - they weren't even at the level of Lando. The real problem a lot of people have with Rey is that she's female, not how "unrealistic" she is; as a guy, all would be forgiven -Anakin was a poorly-written pain in the ass in all three prequels, but it was never a huge issue. Most of the current whining about writing quality is really just gender politics in disguise.
@@Malt454 except in the new trilogy even the poorly written males are getting picked apart. Finn was a character who was completely wasted after the first movie, and the only reason why we talk about Rey more is that the SJWs get mad at us for talking bad about her. It's the people who defend the "strong female characters" that create conversations about females. The reason we don't talk about males is that we aren't sexist and don't care about gender like them.
So many of these 'woke' characters look and sound like Dungeon & Dragon characters. Or perhaps it just because they're both self insert roleplay; one in co-op table top game, and the other all over a well loved franchise.