Yeah, still sad to see the innocence fade from his eyes. Like showing an old german kid who's really proud and innocent what really happened in those camps...
ya i'm a little surprised my self.... usually theists are combative when you threaten or question their view on reality. Best of luck to Brent in opening his eyes.
He's on his way to atheism. I went through this phase pretty m uch, before I became an atheist. His eyes are opening. What helps most is a willingness to be honest with himself.
That self-honesty is what gets to me about this video; the desire to know what's real even if it will shatter his existing worldview; it takes strength, strength which I admire.
@@michalblasko8740 Did you not claim this caller was a "perfect example of a a reasonable person trapped inside religion indoctrination an on the verge of breaking out?"
This was a powerful 4min video, because you could almost feel Brent’s thoughts through the phone line (as cheesy as that may sound), and it’s obvious that his world-view was essentially shattering before our very eyes. Can’t be easy to be so brutally honest with yourself, after years (or decades) invested into your beliefs. Takes balls. Best wishes to Brent from Baton Rouge.
I still long to believe,I just can't justify it to myself anymore then any other non rational belief...When your indoctrinated from birth it's hard if not impossible to lose all the baggage..I almost feel mentally abused even though it was done out of "best intentions"..I now see telling people something is a fact you can't know,by definition is a belief is plain immoral.
I actually sort of well up when I watch this (I'm an extremely emotional person lol); it's bittersweet to see someone genuinely looking for the truth and struggling with difficult (and some bad) ideas, honestly asking questions and hoping for answers, even though they will likely be life-changing answers and as such overwhelming to consider; this was a very refreshing call from a theist (they don't field their brightest on this show most days), just to hear someone actually asking questions rather than just arguing in circles to reach a presupposed conclusion (the usual format).
The guy was honest, give him that. In this context, that means he believes a claim to be true, and he can't honestly give a good reason or convincing account for why he believes those claims. When honest, the theist speaks like an atheist and says "I don't know."
capoman1 why is having knowledge dishonest! ? Don't you think it is possible for an all powerful God to make His existence known to those who diligently seek him? Love you x
Good guy Brent. Doesn't just belief but asks good questions and admits when his belief isn't supported by evidence. Now he only needs to ask a few questions to the right people and he will realize that there isn't a real reason to belief in any of the major religions.
One of the key steps in deconversion is the realization that there is no more rational justification for believing in the religion you were raised in than there is for any of the religions you were always taught were false. Sometimes it leads people to try different religions for a while to see if any of them have more merit.
Respect to this person for being honest... it was almost sad to hear the realization in his voice... but at the same time the potential to break free... good stuff
Fletcher DeMaine How very true! If the belief in a theistic universe has formed the framework for your life from age 5 or under, you cant just step out of it even if you know it makes sense to do so. It can take decades to break free.
That's why it is important to go through this process when you are younger, say in the teenage years, because you have not settled in with one belief into adulthood, where changes in the brain stop.
These are the calls I like the most -You can almost immediately spot theists who are being honest and actually trying to consider these arguments instead going on the offensive or defensive. It's a good reminder for me that they are simply people like anyone else, not some weird Borg hive -mind.
My parents were both unconvinced and unconvincing theists. I was never forced to attend services for their approval. That's all a child could ask from their folks. It allowed me to think for myself w/o having to please anybody. That is true love. Ty, mom and dad. Btw, I chose atheism. I have found no evidence to the contrary.
Guy on the contrary, i love you brother! That's why we go through ridicule and persecution to bring you the truth, the good news that whomsoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Love you x
@@wobblyeyez Many theists are lovely people that keep their beliefs to themselves and I have no problem with that. Plenty are are less nice though, very judgmental, intolerant and desperate to force their beliefs onto others in a very obvious attempt to diminish their own doubts. There are good and bad atheists as well, but we don't claim to be morally superior or claim to have answers that are unknowable.
mrannen1958 You'd be surprised. Theists aren't so because they're dumb or ignorant. Alot are. But if there are folks like Matt and I who can come out, then there others who can be reasoned.
mrannen1958 no the part that bugs most people isn't that they are stupid or ignorant it is that they are willingly stupid and ignorant of the facts about the world. it is willful due to the fact everyone has access to the proper information required to make your own decisions yet they rather be fed bullshit from the pulpit and a clearly nonsensical book.
Dah Flying Spaghetti Monster so loved the world so much, he gave himself to be boiled for our sins, but shhh, don't tell him he doesn't exist other wise chaos would rein supreme
Fear of death and rejection of the surrounding social community is what prevents people from atheism . if your parents are religious, it is very tough and takes lot of courage to question our pre existing beliefs that we were taught as a child
Has anyone here also seen the AxP vs. Mandy, a caller who I believe was from the Appalachian range? Her conversation and testimony brought me to tears: this good woman, indoctrinated in Christianity though she was, completely, honestly and energetically engaged with the hosts. She allowed the resulting conversation to lead her into places where she was most vulnerable, questions about family members dying, and so forth. I am as hard core of an atheist as I know how to be, and I OFTEN launch sadistic salvos at Christian preachers who actually probably are secretly trying to do the right thing, and are my victims because they are the only targets bothering to try to do the right thing (and I mean, really humanly morally right thing to do). That is a bit of a tangent, but I do have to say that when we in the community of non-believers encounter such honest, and morally self-aware and analytical Christians or believers as these, then we have encountered a human being who is not a Klansman, probably already likes gay people, is concerned for making up of the sins of the past (i.e., hates slavery and all it stands for). We should be as welcoming as possible to these refugees from faith who come to us. They are doing the hard work, on their own, often in complete isolation. In the name of all that's reasonable I hope I never hurt one of these people. They have had enough hurt from religion, they need no further hurt from me.
Here's the thing that really puts a big question mark over this Gods character even if he does exist, this man, Brent, is trying really hard to hold onto his faith in this God, right? and if faith is what God likes (according to the Bible it pleases him) then this man's efforts to hold onto that faith should please God, right? Yet, instead of trying to help Brent and encourage him to hold on, this God who should be so pleased with the man and want to help him does.....uh....nothing to help him or if he did do anything it clearly failed but if this God is all powerful then he couldn't fail, so the logical assumption if there is an all-powerful God would be to presume he did nothing to help this man, he just let this man carry on defending his faith, getting more and more smashed to pieces. I'm not blaming the man, he sounds like a very nice human being who sincerely believes in what he believes in but this God, who he is so loyal to is not worth one Iota of his loyalty from where I am sitting, this God is doing nothing.......NOTHING to help him convince Matt or anyone, this is a God who was supposed to have parted the Red Sea, he was supposed to have brought this whole Universe into existence, this God can do anything and yet somehow he can't do one thing to help this Brent when he phones into speak with Matt and Don on The Atheist Experience. Instead, this God is allowing Brent to get intellectually torn apart by Matt, not that Matt is deliberately trying to destroy him, I don't think Matt is like that for one minute, I think Matt is another good man and a good Atheist but the fact is he crushed Brent in the argument, which means ultimately that more and more people who listen to the show will become convinced that the Athiest position is the most rationally justified one and as an Atheist I am fine with that but say for arguments sake I am wrong, say this God really does exist and does want us to know he exists, from this Gods point of view and by virtue of him wanting us to be convinced, having a believer come on a show and get embarrassed by a Skeptic would not be in his best interest. It would be in this Gods best interest to help this man to come up with better arguments and reasons for believing, so that more people would, correct?........but does this God actually do that?.....nahhhh.....and that's exactly my point, this God either doesn't exist at all or he exists and doesn't give a fried chicken about any of us whether we believe in him or not.
If a universe with a God and one without a God looks the same, doesn't that mean the possibility of God creating the universe be equal to the possibility of God not existing?
sure, but there is no evidence that there is a god (at least good evidence). Atheists arent saying there can be no higher power, they are saying they dont believe there is based on insufficient evidence. its very possible their could be one, we dont know, but based on current understandings it seems unlikely.
They may look the same for all we know but the probability of the universe originating naturally is much more likely and possible than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically creating everything from nothing. Of course theists then say, "but how can the universe naturally originate from nothing?" and the truth is that nobody knows what existed or occurred prior to the big bang. We don't know that there was "nothing". The cosmos could've existed in some other form for eternity for all we know. The fact is that we just don't know so stating any claim as fact is absurd.
Why'O'why did I happen to be born in the universe with an evil god. I'm praying that another god can save us. Hopefully, prayer is works inter-universally.
The justification for believing that our universe is a theistic universe is the evidence, which is found in the Bible as a whole; meaning, via Bible synthesis; wherein the evidence, for the claims but not stemming from the claims, is revealed; namely with respect to divine authorship.
***** To become acquainted with the Bible narrative and unity as a whole, relative to it's composition. A simple, though not simplistic, place to start would be a helpful little book entitled: "From Creation to New Creation", by Tim Chester
Okay, so this was terrible English for "The bible proves God because it feels spooky." +MinutemanSam is spot on; a book is a claim, not evidence. I could write anything in a book, that doesn't make it true. Can you imagine how asinine your argument would sound if you heard it from, say, a Hellenic Polytheist? "Obviously the Olympians exist and rule all things! You can feel their VERY PRESENCE in the pages of the Illiad!"
If he truly would have been honest, he would have answered the question about his justification with "Well, it´s comforting....." That´s actually all theism is about. It is comforting to be told that you will never die, it is comforting to be told that no matter what, there is someone who loves you just the way you are, it is comforting to be told that everything you do can and WILL be forgiven. It´s simply all about comfort. The fun fact is, that even livelong church visitors don´t really believe this. You can visit any nursing home you want and talk to whoever works there and they will all tell you the same thing. When death knocks at the door, the "believers" are the ones most afraid. You rarely will find atheists, sceptics etc. panicking in the face of death, but believers almost always do. I don´t really know which part of their self-delusion doesn´t work anymore, maybe it´s just the "everything will be forgiven" part of it and they still believe all the rest. But if only the conviction in that part fails it must be the horror for them. Everybody knows for sure what he has done in his life, and he knows, according to the rules of his Abrahamic religion he deserves an eternity in hell for it. So if your conviction in being forgiven fades you KNOW where you will end up soon. Must be pretty releaving to find out that there is nothing after all.....
“So how can you be a theist?” - Matt D. All he had to say was theism isn’t based on knowledge Matt just like atheism isn’t based on knowledge. That’s like 101 level stuff and Matt flubbed it up big time - they are both based on belief.
Ricardo Fermé Incorrect. The majority (vast majority) of atheists believe god doesn’t exist. Ironically they also believe that they don’t have a belief. They believe atheism is simply a rejection or lack of belief. They believe that they do not have a burden to support their belief. They believe the standard should be proof yet things they believe elsewhere in life don’t require proof. They believe that proof and evidence are the same. You actually confirmed most of these beliefs in that post of yours. Thanks.
Feiner Fug “late to the party” no problem. “how did you conclude that „the majority of atheists believe that god doesn‘t exist“”. Good question. I have talked with literally over a thousand atheists online or in person. I have watched and read videos and books from leading atheists. I also research probably at least a half dozen or so atheist websites and there statements. All draw to the conclusion I have. “And what would the erroneous opinion of particular atheists have to do with the (meanwhile almost universally accepted) definition of atheism anyway” not quite as good of question because it strawmans that I’m cherry picking atheists, I’m not. And when a definition is not accurate to what most atheists believe, as the atheist indoctrinated definition is, it is fallacious to use it. “Isn‘t it theists who relentlessly assure us that most christians are not true christians?” While I have heard that argument a time or two, more by atheists than by Christians, your use of it here is interesting. If you felt like that you didn’t have to be beholden to what most atheists believe you then wouldn’t have a problem with this statement about true Christians as you presented it. But clearly you have a problem with it, so it makes no sense that is an argument you would have with what I have said.
Have to admire the guy's honesty.
Yeah, still sad to see the innocence fade from his eyes. Like showing an old german kid who's really proud and innocent what really happened in those camps...
Ahahaha
Sidney Meyers FUCK that's a good one.
respect to him for his honesty and desire for the truth. it was clearly difficult for him to talk about but he was facing it anyway.
ya i'm a little surprised my self.... usually theists are combative when you threaten or question their view on reality.
Best of luck to Brent in opening his eyes.
He's on his way to atheism. I went through this phase pretty m uch, before I became an atheist. His eyes are opening. What helps most is a willingness to be honest with himself.
That self-honesty is what gets to me about this video; the desire to know what's real even if it will shatter his existing worldview; it takes strength, strength which I admire.
rikk319 or at least he's on his way of moving away from the theistic to a more natural pov.
R Stewart that was the hardest thing for me too- self honesty. Once you are prepared to practice that theistic beliefs evaporate.
Someone's eyes are about to be opened there... How cool is that?
It's like the old Robin Williams movie "Awakenings"
@Toughen Up, Fluffy And religions are putting HARD strains on people ! .................
Perfect example of a reasonable person trapped inside religion indoctrination and on the verge of breaking out.
Prove that claim.
@@davidsmock8235 😂😂😂wtf are you talking about
@@michalblasko8740 Did you not claim this caller was a "perfect example of a a reasonable person trapped inside religion indoctrination an on the verge of breaking out?"
@@davidsmock8235 only proof is the way he is talking and silence between sentences and he told he is thinking about it much or something like that
i was there for a long time myself. so glad i came to my senses when i did. i might have been a theist throughout college 😳
"An honest theist" is another way of saying "a theist who is about to become an atheist."
I couldn’t have said that better myself 😂😂😂!
Lol also known as uh oh syndrome.
A _InterTheist?_ A _MidTheist?_ A _TransTheist?_ How about a _SeudoTheist_ or _QuasiTheist!_ Pretending to be a real theist until reality sets in...
Prove that claim.
No it isn't
This was a powerful 4min video, because you could almost feel Brent’s thoughts through the phone line (as cheesy as that may sound), and it’s obvious that his world-view was essentially shattering before our very eyes. Can’t be easy to be so brutally honest with yourself, after years (or decades) invested into your beliefs. Takes balls.
Best wishes to Brent from Baton Rouge.
This happened a year ago, I sincerely doubt that Brent is still a believer at this point.
I can feel the wheels spinning in his head
I used to be like him...then I questioned more...and more...
I used to be like him too... then I took an arrow to the knee.
in the knee
+ZarPof You just won *The Internet*.
I used to be like him.... until I took an arrow in the need to believe.
I still long to believe,I just can't justify it to myself anymore then any other non rational belief...When your indoctrinated from birth it's hard if not impossible to lose all the baggage..I almost feel mentally abused even though it was done out of "best intentions"..I now see telling people something is a fact you can't know,by definition is a belief is plain immoral.
U can tell that my dude has been doubting his faith for quite some time. It seems he just needed someone to make sense of it for him.
I actually sort of well up when I watch this (I'm an extremely emotional person lol); it's bittersweet to see someone genuinely looking for the truth and struggling with difficult (and some bad) ideas, honestly asking questions and hoping for answers, even though they will likely be life-changing answers and as such overwhelming to consider; this was a very refreshing call from a theist (they don't field their brightest on this show most days), just to hear someone actually asking questions rather than just arguing in circles to reach a presupposed conclusion (the usual format).
One of us! One of us!
hahaha, this guys listens and thinks too much, he won't be a theist much longer.
Or he is just pulling your leg ! ................
The guy was honest, give him that. In this context, that means he believes a claim to be true, and he can't honestly give a good reason or convincing account for why he believes those claims. When honest, the theist speaks like an atheist and says "I don't know."
capoman1 why is having knowledge dishonest! ? Don't you think it is possible for an all powerful God to make His existence known to those who diligently seek him? Love you x
Good guy Brent. Doesn't just belief but asks good questions and admits when his belief isn't supported by evidence.
Now he only needs to ask a few questions to the right people and he will realize that there isn't a real reason to belief in any of the major religions.
One of the key steps in deconversion is the realization that there is no more rational justification for believing in the religion you were raised in than there is for any of the religions you were always taught were false. Sometimes it leads people to try different religions for a while to see if any of them have more merit.
Respect to this person for being honest... it was almost sad to hear the realization in his voice... but at the same time the potential to break free... good stuff
Brent is probably not going to be a theist for too much longer.
He'll start to identify as an atheist but it can take years to complete the journey and to wash the years of self deception away.
Fletcher DeMaine How very true! If the belief in a theistic universe has formed the framework for your life from age 5 or under, you cant just step out of it even if you know it makes sense to do so. It can take decades to break free.
It's like getting past that you aren't the last human being alive like your mother told you down in that bunker...
... you know 'bout the bunker...?
That's why it is important to go through this process when you are younger, say in the teenage years, because you have not settled in with one belief into adulthood, where changes in the brain stop.
This was genuinely so refreshing to watch. He was wiling to admit he doesn't know. So many are unwilling to do so. Much respect to this young man.
He must be an atheist by now :)
Must be?
These are the calls I like the most -You can almost immediately spot theists who are being honest and actually trying to consider these arguments instead going on the offensive or defensive. It's a good reminder for me that they are simply people like anyone else, not some weird Borg hive -mind.
My parents were both unconvinced and unconvincing theists. I was never forced to attend services for their approval. That's all a child could ask from their folks. It allowed me to think for myself w/o having to please anybody. That is true love. Ty, mom and dad. Btw, I chose atheism. I have found no evidence to the contrary.
My mom did the same ultimately but begrudgingly. It was only because the people at our church hated me deeply. Good for u btw.
Funny how these religious bigots with "morals" hate you for not believing in what they believe in.
Guy on the contrary, i love you brother! That's why we go through ridicule and persecution to bring you the truth, the good news that whomsoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Love you x
@@wobblyeyez Many theists are lovely people that keep their beliefs to themselves and I have no problem with that. Plenty are are less nice though, very judgmental, intolerant and desperate to force their beliefs onto others in a very obvious attempt to diminish their own doubts. There are good and bad atheists as well, but we don't claim to be morally superior or claim to have answers that are unknowable.
SkyWizardless they are trying to save you not diminish doubt, you're incorrect there mate. Much love x
l had to click this cus l didn't think an honest theist existed
mrannen1958 You'd be surprised. Theists aren't so because they're dumb or ignorant. Alot are. But if there are folks like Matt and I who can come out, then there others who can be reasoned.
mrannen1958 no the part that bugs most people isn't that they are stupid or ignorant it is that they are willingly stupid and ignorant of the facts about the world. it is willful due to the fact everyone has access to the proper information required to make your own decisions yet they rather be fed bullshit from the pulpit and a clearly nonsensical book.
matt was an honest theist. its natural selection, most honest theists turn into atheists and ur left with the dishonest ones xd
Dah Flying Spaghetti Monster so loved the world so much, he gave himself to be boiled for our sins, but shhh, don't tell him he doesn't exist other wise chaos would rein supreme
Ramen! Now, please pass the garlic bread.
@@stephaniecuellar3192 that's a sin
Logically sound argument from Matt.....
I wish all religious people were like this guy. In fact, I was once in the same boat as him and I finally broke out of religion in 2011.
That was a new one!
well done for being honest mr theist.
The only bit of advice that i could give Brent is, continue to be as honest as you are here and u will find your answers eventually.
I want to see the original, full call...
Universe is self sufficient & this is the most simple explanation of what is .
Fear of death and rejection of the surrounding social community is what prevents people from atheism . if your parents are religious, it is very tough and takes lot of courage to question our pre existing beliefs that we were taught as a child
Has anyone here also seen the AxP vs. Mandy, a caller who I believe was from the Appalachian range? Her conversation and testimony brought me to tears: this good woman, indoctrinated in Christianity though she was, completely, honestly and energetically engaged with the hosts. She allowed the resulting conversation to lead her into places where she was most vulnerable, questions about family members dying, and so forth. I am as hard core of an atheist as I know how to be, and I OFTEN launch sadistic salvos at Christian preachers who actually probably are secretly trying to do the right thing, and are my victims because they are the only targets bothering to try to do the right thing (and I mean, really humanly morally right thing to do). That is a bit of a tangent, but I do have to say that when we in the community of non-believers encounter such honest, and morally self-aware and analytical Christians or believers as these, then we have encountered a human being who is not a Klansman, probably already likes gay people, is concerned for making up of the sins of the past (i.e., hates slavery and all it stands for). We should be as welcoming as possible to these refugees from faith who come to us. They are doing the hard work, on their own, often in complete isolation. In the name of all that's reasonable I hope I never hurt one of these people. They have had enough hurt from religion, they need no further hurt from me.
You cannot tell their position is "I dont know". They already dont know and refuse to think about it.
Like the rest of us, he is on his way out of the maze, keep it up feels good to be free
He's found the exit, but still thinks the goal is somewhere inside the maze. All he has to do is step outside.
wow
Chapeau.
Don Baker's a lovely man.
Here's the thing that really puts a big question mark over this Gods character even if he does exist, this man, Brent, is trying really hard to hold onto his faith in this God, right? and if faith is what God likes (according to the Bible it pleases him) then this man's efforts to hold onto that faith should please God, right?
Yet, instead of trying to help Brent and encourage him to hold on, this God who should be so pleased with the man and want to help him does.....uh....nothing to help him or if he did do anything it clearly failed but if this God is all powerful then he couldn't fail, so the logical assumption if there is an all-powerful God would be to presume he did nothing to help this man, he just let this man carry on defending his faith, getting more and more smashed to pieces.
I'm not blaming the man, he sounds like a very nice human being who sincerely believes in what he believes in but this God, who he is so loyal to is not worth one Iota of his loyalty from where I am sitting, this God is doing nothing.......NOTHING to help him convince Matt or anyone, this is a God who was supposed to have parted the Red Sea, he was supposed to have brought this whole Universe into existence, this God can do anything and yet somehow he can't do one thing to help this Brent when he phones into speak with Matt and Don on The Atheist Experience.
Instead, this God is allowing Brent to get intellectually torn apart by Matt, not that Matt is deliberately trying to destroy him, I don't think Matt is like that for one minute, I think Matt is another good man and a good Atheist but the fact is he crushed Brent in the argument, which means ultimately that more and more people who listen to the show will become convinced that the Athiest position is the most rationally justified one and as an Atheist I am fine with that but say for arguments sake I am wrong, say this God really does exist and does want us to know he exists, from this Gods point of view and by virtue of him wanting us to be convinced, having a believer come on a show and get embarrassed by a Skeptic would not be in his best interest.
It would be in this Gods best interest to help this man to come up with better arguments and reasons for believing, so that more people would, correct?........but does this God actually do that?.....nahhhh.....and that's exactly my point, this God either doesn't exist at all or he exists and doesn't give a fried chicken about any of us whether we believe in him or not.
Or he's not all-powerful.
IGNORANCE is so sad
Whole clip?
episode 946
The process of hacking out of your own theistic mind has been been an interesting journey ...
One of the best things about the Atheist Experience is hearing Christians and other theists squirm!
You can't be honest and a theist at the same time. ;)
I tracked down the original full call. it's at 6 minutes and 44 seconds of this link: m.ruclips.net/video/rMKibO5O38E/видео.html
its sad bc he relized hes been bullshitted all his life but.. we all need to be broken down somtimes
Around 1:19 the caller briefly overtalks Matt by hastening to restate, more forcefully his contingent regard as to his own beliefs.
My only reason to believe that a god does not exist is that childrens hospitals do exist.
If a universe with a God and one without a God looks the same, doesn't that mean the possibility of God creating the universe be equal to the possibility of God not existing?
sure, but there is no evidence that there is a god (at least good evidence). Atheists arent saying there can be no higher power, they are saying they dont believe there is based on insufficient evidence. its very possible their could be one, we dont know, but based on current understandings it seems unlikely.
They may look the same for all we know but the probability of the universe originating naturally is much more likely and possible than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically creating everything from nothing.
Of course theists then say, "but how can the universe naturally originate from nothing?" and the truth is that nobody knows what existed or occurred prior to the big bang. We don't know that there was "nothing". The cosmos could've existed in some other form for eternity for all we know. The fact is that we just don't know so stating any claim as fact is absurd.
Welcome to the dark side! Brent!
Why'O'why did I happen to be born in the universe with an evil god. I'm praying that another god can save us. Hopefully, prayer is works inter-universally.
The justification for believing that our universe is a theistic universe is the evidence, which is found in the Bible as a whole; meaning, via Bible synthesis; wherein the evidence, for the claims but not stemming from the claims, is revealed; namely with respect to divine authorship.
***** To become acquainted with the Bible narrative and unity as a whole, relative to it's composition.
A simple, though not simplistic, place to start would be a helpful little book entitled:
"From Creation to New Creation", by Tim Chester
Of all the videos from this channel to make this comment, this was in poor taste; don't poison the minds of those trying to escape your death-cult.
R Stewart A logically meaningless argument, my friend.
MinutemanSam You are incorrect.
Okay, so this was terrible English for "The bible proves God because it feels spooky."
+MinutemanSam is spot on; a book is a claim, not evidence. I could write anything in a book, that doesn't make it true. Can you imagine how asinine your argument would sound if you heard it from, say, a Hellenic Polytheist? "Obviously the Olympians exist and rule all things! You can feel their VERY PRESENCE in the pages of the Illiad!"
John 3.16 Jesus Christ said he came to give us eternal life which is a free gift.
That's great but how do you know that is true?
If he truly would have been honest, he would have answered the question about his justification with "Well, it´s comforting....." That´s actually all theism is about. It is comforting to be told that you will never die, it is comforting to be told that no matter what, there is someone who loves you just the way you are, it is comforting to be told that everything you do can and WILL be forgiven.
It´s simply all about comfort. The fun fact is, that even livelong church visitors don´t really believe this. You can visit any nursing home you want and talk to whoever works there and they will all tell you the same thing. When death knocks at the door, the "believers" are the ones most afraid. You rarely will find atheists, sceptics etc. panicking in the face of death, but believers almost always do. I don´t really know which part of their self-delusion doesn´t work anymore, maybe it´s just the "everything will be forgiven" part of it and they still believe all the rest. But if only the conviction in that part fails it must be the horror for them. Everybody knows for sure what he has done in his life, and he knows, according to the rules of his Abrahamic religion he deserves an eternity in hell for it. So if your conviction in being forgiven fades you KNOW where you will end up soon.
Must be pretty releaving to find out that there is nothing after all.....
Really..! What doe's it matter in the end? Nobody knows what happens when u die. We'll just have to wait and see
Wrong argument. If you can't tell the difference you can choose what ever you like!
Yes, but the argument was, that your choice then is not rationally justified. You argued a strawman there.
Hay, Matt your doing a great job for Jahovah
Keep up the great work
Did the man made
god tell you itself ? Or did you just assume that ?
“So how can you be a theist?” - Matt D.
All he had to say was theism isn’t based on knowledge Matt just like atheism isn’t based on knowledge.
That’s like 101 level stuff and Matt flubbed it up big time - they are both based on belief.
Atheism is not based on belief. Atheism is the rejection of a claim, since the burden of proof hasn't been met
Ricardo Fermé Incorrect. The majority (vast majority) of atheists believe god doesn’t exist. Ironically they also believe that they don’t have a belief. They believe atheism is simply a rejection or lack of belief. They believe that they do not have a burden to support their belief. They believe the standard should be proof yet things they believe elsewhere in life don’t require proof. They believe that proof and evidence are the same.
You actually confirmed most of these beliefs in that post of yours. Thanks.
Feiner Fug “late to the party” no problem.
“how did you conclude that „the majority of atheists believe that god doesn‘t exist“”. Good question. I have talked with literally over a thousand atheists online or in person. I have watched and read videos and books from leading atheists. I also research probably at least a half dozen or so atheist websites and there statements. All draw to the conclusion I have.
“And what would the erroneous opinion of particular atheists have to do with the (meanwhile almost universally accepted) definition of atheism anyway” not quite as good of question because it strawmans that I’m cherry picking atheists, I’m not. And when a definition is not accurate to what most atheists believe, as the atheist indoctrinated definition is, it is fallacious to use it.
“Isn‘t it theists who relentlessly assure us that most christians are not true christians?” While I have heard that argument a time or two, more by atheists than by Christians, your use of it here is interesting. If you felt like that you didn’t have to be beholden to what most atheists believe you then wouldn’t have a problem with this statement about true Christians as you presented it. But clearly you have a problem with it, so it makes no sense that is an argument you would have with what I have said.