The commenter saying Maya isn't to blame is unhinged. She threw a party, let those guys in, with full knowledge of their gang affiliation, *LEFT THE HOUSE* and *LEFT HER SISTER WITH STRANGERS, UNSUPERVISED* . She's an accomplice.
It's reddit, everyone wants to spin the narrative. Add to this not really reading the post and people go wild. I can see how someone would want to justify Maya before the update, especially with how little OP described her behaviour at party, and after with the consequences, but it's clear now she was at fault
I was thinking the same thing or at least there’s a good chance especially if some of the comments are true about her involvement in drugs or gang activity.
yeah mcd run? why? i feel like she set the whole thing up. maybe she wanted her sister to be as degenerate as her so she wouldnt feel bad (yes, a lot of women work like that)
The rape is the 4 mens fault who did it and only their fault. Maya however is at fault for basically trafficking her sister. The cops took her in so it says to me she had more involvement than simply leaving. She tried to get her to get with a boy 3 years older (that is already too old for her 2 year max or it is rape because even if she wanted him shes not capable of true consent they are not peers with that big of an age gap. Kids do so much growing so quickly so its not like being 25 with a 28 year old by then that age gap isnt an issue. She then let the boy harass her and left her alone with him. For her words to her mom throughout this like Lucy is being a baby mom you always jump in to defend her I believe she intentionally let this happen. The fact shes grieving the loss of the friendship. I bet you hes not talking to her because he got in trouble not her cutting him off because he raped her sister. Shes mad she cant be friends with him anymore. She blames Lucy for that too. Her words tell me she purposely set this up. Shes at fault for breaking rules with a party, shes at fault for neglecting her sister at best trafficking her at worst and that would be EQUALLY as bad as raping her herself though still a seperate crime to the rape itself. She could have left her there and them to not choose to rape her so the actions of rape were their choice and only on them. Even if they hadnt raped her the sister was neglectful at best but potentially trying to get her sister hurt at worst and she should still have been severely punished for that. She needs to be punished for what she did and they need to be punished for what they did. Shes jealous of baby sister and shes the middle child they tend to feel left out (they dont tend to do shite like this but the feelings of neglect would be typical for a middle child). She did this because shes jealous of her.
Its not because they were there parties attract all sorts of types. However what says set up to me is a number of things. She tried to get her sister with the damn near grown one who isnt a peer was too old for her. She let him harass her all night. When talking to the cops they decided she needed to be in trouble too. That alone could be a mistake but all all the things no I dont think it was. Then add she has no remorse, but more telling is she also told people knowing the news hadnt released sisters name. She is INTENTIONALLY hurting her in other ways. Shes playing dumb about it and then gaslighting about it claiming lucy is being dramatic. Most telling thing is the resentment from the words about mom always defending Lucy even when shes being a baby about it. Psychologically look at her being the middle child too. No that doesnt excuse it most middle children dont do shite like this but I mean they do tend to feel left out or neglected. Oldest got alone time with parent before they came along, parent bonded with oldest alone. The baby will be the baby the last one. It is a natural thing that happens that the middle child feels neglected. However in this case she has severe resentment to the point she thinks its no big deal she got raped. Shes more mad that it came between her and her friend the rapist the worst one of the rapists. I bet you ANYTHING that he stopped being friends with her when he got in trouble. Shes 18 mom cant force her not to be his friend and shes mad she lost her friend. Yeah she did it definitely on purpose but for no other reason than she resented her sister. Asking why she told so many people her sister was the one raped is pointless. She isnt stupid she knew it would hurt her more and she did it on purpose.
I mean, depends on what you mean by grown men. They could've been in their 20s, she was 18, and such friendships are pretty normal or at least not unheard of. If they'd been over 30, I'd start suspecting a set up, but they probably weren't. They were adults, as was Maya, but probably young adults.
yes, Maya wanted revenge because she broke up with her 17y.o. boyfriend who said 'I like you more than you sister, plus you ard a virgin which I like' to then 12 y.o. Lia. This was not an incident.
You know 100% Maya gave her sister to the gang leader to get into the gang. The therapist needs to lose their license for even thinking r*pe was an accident. 🤬
To be fair, we don't know what exactly therapist was told by Maya. We know what happened from OP's perspective and who those friends were, but it seems like Maya only talked how it 'affected' her, and could spin it like her friends don't talk to her/ she don't have time or attention because 'Lucy is dramatizing'.
@@ritaerror7829 Yeah, given how she was apparently vague on who the culprits might have been (when she knew full well that one of them had been harassing her), it's entirely possible she spun a story to the therapist.
Therapists are not frickin cops. They don't necessarily know the whole background, it all depends on what Maya has told them. A therapist should not lose their job for not finding out something even the police didn't.
Agreed. A smart and loving sister would have if she only went to such a party because a smart and loving sister wouldn’t have invited them or had such a party in the first place.
@@jeffwilliams9866 uk as a big sister with a little sis and lots of younger cousin no way in hell i would ever put them in the same room with thungs let alone trying to set her up with one of them and u bet any piece of shit would end up in ER if i find them harrasing her dont care friend or not.simple. throughout the story i was just shocked . ok fine even if it was an accident and hypothetically she didnt know her friends were associated with thugs HOW CAN YOU CALL YOUR OWN SIS DRAMATIC AFTER WHAT HAPPENED. thats just pure disgusting . she wasnt remorseful at allll in fact i doubt this bother her in the slightest except for the fact that her dear friends ended up in jail.
@@syminreed3922 true, and there’s a chance she set her sister up for that intentionally which others suggested and I believe there’s good probability she did do that intentionally given her behavior and apparent lack of concern or responsibility for what happened to her sister.
"I wanted to open Lucy up, she was sitting by me the whole party." Uh, so, a 14 year old wanted to stick to her sisters side during a party with people SHE doesnt know...? Yeah, Maya only cared about the party and the popularity she would get from it.
Nope she did this intentionally. She has no empathy that she was raped, she says she didnt rape her so she didnt do anything wrong, more so than any of this was her telling mom she always sides with Lucy even when shes "being a baby". Middle children tend to have resentment that is natural but not to this level they would try to put their baby sister with someone too old for her and let him harass her. Shes more resentful the rapist didnt want to be her friend anymore because hes in trouble than she is that he raped her sister. Shes 18 mom cant make her not be friends with him, shes mad she cant be his friend and mad mom isnt more worried about that. She knew as well that no one told Lucys name in the paper. Asking her why she told people was pointless she is just going to lie and gaslight and she did. She said they were being dramatic and its no big deal and everyone knew anyway.. when they didnt and she knew that. That was an intentional malicious thing she did plus the resentment and victim blaming shes doing while acting like mom should have coddled her instead for having to spend a night or two in jail...... yeah all around this was malicious and intentional. She didnt care about the party she cared about herself, her goals, her wants, her anger towards her little sister and mom, and she tried to get this guy to get with her. Shes mad he stopped being her friend/rapist/worst of the rapists when he got caught
Big sisters don't like their little sisters tag along all the time. But you bet in this situation I'd be the one scolding my sister if she left my eye sight. Heck. Don't even let go of my hand. Not even having the party in 1st place.
@@NessieNice I'm also a big sister, and this so true, like, Who would throw a party without their parents permission, try to get their sister with some stranger, and then leave and get her assaulted? like wtf?
"I wanted her to open up", coupled with everything else, screams orhestration. She's fr a sociopath. Likely rationalised some form of jealousy of her younger sister, especially as she complained about emotional neglect... as an adult!
Hi, sociopathy is not a diagnosis! It's usually what people call Antisocial Personality Disorder or another cluster b like histrionic or narcissism. Would you be shocked if I told you it is incredibly rare for these disorders to simply be genetic (and if they were the signs are extremely obvious if you're paying attention for the first 18 years of your daughters life and therapy is extremely helpful for these disorders). It is more common, however, for them to be a result of childhood neglect! Most of these disorders are either a cry for attention like borderline and histrionic, while others are based on feeling you can literally only rely on yourself and everyone else will fail you or other people take away from your ability to care for yourself, like with narcissism or antisocial. Basically what I'm saying is sociopathy is 9 times out of 10 a result of childhood neglect. Lucy having an unhealthy attachment with her sister (Defending her after her actions led to a traumatic event.) and then asking her mom if she ruined their family shows that this is a dysfunctional home from the start. I also felt like it was my fault my home was being ripped apart when my parents found out about my brother assaulting me, but that's coz my parents lack of communication and the anger I felt every time I was near them. Not communicating is also neglect. What I'm saying is that Maya was most likely neglected her whole life along with the other kids in the family and this is just the manifestation of all that neglect the kids faced. And now the mom is confused as to how her kid ended up this way. News flash, its the mom's fault!
What does her being an adult have to do with her complaining about emotional neglect? Do you think adults can't experience emotional neglect from their loved ones? Or are you saying that they shouldn't bring it up and instead just keep it in until it explodes? I'm not taking sides or making a statement about Maya's morality here, I'm just a little puzzled by that last bit of your comment.
I have the feeling Maya wanted to join that gang and used her sister to get it, and it is disgusting. I hope she face the consequences of her actions and that OP disowns her.
if your kid chooses to join a gang before they're out of your house it's your fault as the parent, I'm sorry. I was friends with an ex gang member and he joined the gang coz he was neglected and they made him feel seen and like he had a family. I've heard that from nearly every kid who joins a gang. That they joined coz it felt like family and someone having your back and like you'd be assured safety to some degree. Kids usually join gangs because they don't feel supported in other areas. Like yes, Maya grew up to be awful, but lets not let OP off the hook for making this monster. Basically, if this were your kid, you can kick her out, but that doesn't band aid over the fact that you raised the monster you're booting out of your home, it just let's you pretend you had no part in it and makes it easier for you alone.
@@abarbienamedken3334 Don't you put the whole blame on the parent, while yes some of the blame MAY lay with the parent, we do not know that. what we do know is that Maya left her sister with men that were affiliated with gangs, all alone, and it is HER fault she got assaulted. I do not like how you're trying to push the view away from the kid toward the parent, I grew up in a shitty household, poverty and abuse, but guess what? I had my sisters back and she had mine, and while it wasn't all happiness and rainbows I learnt my weak spots and worked to better them on my own. Seeking validation, joining a gang etc is no excuse for knowingly putting your sister in danger
@@abarbienamedken3334dude some kids are just assholes. Lets not act like any 16-18 yr old doesnt know what they’re doing. They aren’t babies ffs. I’m 19, do you know just how many people my age from younger ages understand that what Maya did was absolutely fucked? Maya is 18, shes not 10.
It is MAYA's FAULT, she invited gangmembers into your HOME, what the f did she think would happen? drink tea? she set her little sister up to get r word.
For me this is in layers; OP is even entertaining the idea of forgiving Maya, OP is letting Maya remain in the home. OP isn't pursuing criminal charges against Maya.
@scottpelletier7095 She didn't let her stay. She sent her to live with her grandparents, as for criminal charges, there really isn't anything to charge her for, that'll actually stick, and op already admitted her blunder to helping her with the child endangerment charge.
Imagine what the commenters' reaction would have been if it were an older brother who had left his adolescent sister in the home with several grown men. Saying that Maya is not at fault, when she threw the party, is psychotic.
Maya is at fault here. She didn't care that her sister was assaulted. She's playing the victim card. She knew these guys were criminals and still,left her sister alone with these thugs. I hope they got long prison sentences. Selling the house is a good idea. Lucy probably doesn't feel safe there. Maya needs to own up to what she did. Call me evil if you want but I would not allow her in the new house until she apologizes. You can help her financially until gets on her feet. But Maya needs to learn accountability. Just sayin.
100% right! Maya didn't even feel sorry for what she did and all she did was hug her sister. She even said she overheard her sister she probably hasn't even been talking or hanging out with her sister. I pray Lucy can move on from this trauma and hopefully realize how selfish her sister really is. And Lucy's sister in law is a WAYYY better sister than Maya.
You're a better person than me. If I were the mother I would never allow that Maya girl in my house ever again. She clearly showed no regrets and dismisses what happened to her sister, which was her fault, and sees it as an inconvenience to her. There's something really disturbing about that girl. People like that could easily lie and beg for forgiveness but never mean it, they just play a role to get what they want. If she were regretful she had been so since day one. Not just because her mom told her off.
Yeah Maya needed to learn a lot of things her mother never taught her apparently. And then the mother has the gull to be like "I don't know how this happened! She must have been born a sociopath and I somehow failed to notice for the 18 years I was responsible for her health including her mental health!" and then fails to realize sociopathy is 90% of the time a personality disorder that's the result of neglect and this taking place in the family proves its dysfunctional to begin with. This doesn't happen in happy, functional families with good parenting and communication... Y'all are letting the mom too off the hook while still saying Maya needs to learn like yes she does, I wonder who was supposed to have taught her that though. Wild.
@@abarbienamedken3334 OP didn't say Maya was a sociopath, the comments did, OP was just replying to them. And no, Maya being an awful person does not mean OP was abusing her or was a bad parent. Something most people seem to forget is that most of the time if someone has a personality disorder or just a sh*ty personality in general it doesn't matter how great of a parent you are they'll still have it at the end of the day. I don't think my grandparents were the greatest parents to my mom and her siblings but if only my aunt grew up to be an abusive, lying, cheating, mess of a person/mother while my mom and uncles who have kids turned out to be good/great parents, then I don't think you can just blame it on the parents all the time.
Maya definitely strikes me as a sociopath. She's dangerous to herself and to others, the fact that she cared more about "losing a friend" than about her sister? That's a tell-tale sign right there. Holy shit, this story made my stomach churn either way. I'm disgusted and appalled with how this whole thing went down and with the fact that Maya knew these dudes were no good, yet she let them harass her sister anyway. The fact she left right before they SA'ed her is just troubling. My heart goes out to OP and especially to Lucy. I can't even fathom how traumatized that poor girl is from what happened. Something tells me she won't ever fully recover from this, even with years of therapy. I'm sorry if I'm rambling, I have family that was SA'ed so this hits home with me. This is the first time a story made my stomach churn like this in a long time.
It almost sounds like her (Maya’s) convenient departure was PLANNED and Maya possibly had an ACTIVE part in sister’s assault. I hope not but by some of her actions and the comments, it’s a real possibility. If she was doing drugs or was trying to join the gang or both, then the chances of her being even more involved by planning it, is much stronger.
@@jeffwilliams9866 also, it was a party with adult men, pretty sure that if not drugs, there was at least alcohol. She's old enough to know how bad it can get! And I think Lucy could too... like, she just got to her room and go to sleep? Pretty sure she locked the door at least, but the guys STILL get inside (unless they have weird doors without lock, but still)
As someone who was SA'd by my older brother and my parents acted shocked like OP, I blame the mother. Sociopathy doesn't happen without neglect (its rare for it to be genetic and not caused by trauma/neglect and its not even a diagnosis, it's usually a personality disorder that is very noticeable to non-neglectful parents and easily treatable with therapy especially at young ages.) This shit doesn't happen in happy functional homes where the parents are paying attention to their kids mental health. This happens in neglectful dysfunctional families. "I raised you better!" clearly not. My parents said that to my brother and yet I heard my dad say marital SA doesn't exist. The parents are never innocent when a kid turns out this bad. My dad also said he was the one who suffered most in this scenario coz it was his kids when I was literally the one who got SA'd by my own brother who I trusted but yanno. I can't stand parents who end up letting their trauma in the scenario get in the way of taking care of their traumatized kid. The fact Lucy is blaming herself for breaking up the family shows OP is not doing a good enough job of communicating with her and also hiding her obvious disdain for the problem she raised. Happy kids with good parents don't turn into bad people like this. My heart bleeds for Lucy who was the victim of all of this. I don't feel an ounce of pity for the mother though. As someone who was a Lucy, I will NEVER give the parents any pity in these scenarios where one kids poor raising leads to the other being traumatized. If OP's hurting, fucking good, your parenting led to this so I do not care, just don't let it get in the way of you supporting the actual victim.
I have a hunch but his sounds like a damn set up. She threw the party, she invited these men, she tried to set her sister up with one of them, conveniently leaves, and withholds the names of her 'friends' during a police investigation... The lack of remorse on her end and attempting to excuse and down play a violent SA, and deciding to mourn the loss of her friendship with one of these monsters instead be outraged on her sister's behalf, is pretty telling where she is on this. This girl can't be trusted and shouldn't be around her sister. Because I feel like this would not be a one time incident
It's 100% Maya’s fault and she should've been charged the same as the grapists. She brought 4 grown a$$ men into the house, knew they were in a gang and were criminals, allowed her sister to get harassed and had Lucy’s boundaries pushed, did nothing when those men hurt Lucy, told people what happened to Lucy, focused on her own selfish feelings about this rather than Lucy, and then kept victim blaming her and brought up how Lucy was talking to a guy, like she somehow deserved what happened to her for just being a teenaged girl. All this and Maya denied any accountability. I know the courts didn't say it, but Maya sounds like an accomplice to me.
Maya needs to go to jail for setting up her minor sister. She was responsible for her safety and well being and not only failed the job, but was the cause of it. She sounds like a sociopath.
My parents paid me to watch my brother when they were out for the night. The first time I was 13 and he was 9 (we’re Gen Xers ..) I remember about the 2nd or 3rd time, I ended up having to call my parents because he was running a fever, had a headache and was bleeding from his ear (small droplets - he suffered a lot of ear infections around that time of life). When they came home, I had him on the couch with my brand new pillow (really soft and comfortable to lay on) and had given him some children’s Tylenol. Thankfully, it was just another ear infection, but I was still very anxious. He could be an incredibly annoying little brother, but I could NEVER imagine letting him get injured or assaulted if there was absolutely anything I could do to stop it!!
So grateful to the later posters who expressed genuine concern for Lucy’s and OP’s mental well-being. Ensuring that Lucy has a strong support base, and learning that her Brother and S-I-L are taking an active part in encouraging and supporting her.
The fact that the sister cared more about losing a "friend" then her sister getting violently attacked is purely DISGUSTING. I'm sure Maya would feel different if SHE was the one who got attacked instead.
That Maya girl is a psychopath. Plain and simple. Shows no shame and no remorse and yes, it was 💯 her fault what happened. She had one job, to take care of her sister and she goes and exposes her to criminals. OP just move with your other daughter and don't tell your psycho daughter your address. Keep her at arm's length like forever. Some people are just rotten.
@@RobinDebrassio-vx6fl 1. It's 100% all of their fault. Not 50/50. All of them 100. 2. She's part of the rapists, dude. She left to give herself an alibi.
I absolutely believe it was a set up. Even an idiot wouldn't leave a 14 year old alone with adults that were harassing her all night. Maya knew these men were criminals, she knew they were gang affiliated, she brought them there; Lucy's attack was Maya's fault.
Probably a psychopath bc sociopaths are made via abuse/trauma and according to OP she did her best to raise the kids right BUT psychopaths are born; meaning no matter how well u try to raise them they always end up like maya
Something tells me maya set her sister up. Hence the unwillingness to give names,perhaps its time for op to change the will and go full nc with maya,just in case.
The fact that the sister literally went on to tell everyone about what happened to her sister after her sister asked her not to, and then said she had to get over it disregarding the fact that she is still a CHILD. Maya is likely a sociopath or psychopath. Like, legit, this seems like she’s lacking empathy for her sister.
Not only was it 100% her fault she tried to play the victim to her pysch and TOLD 27 people in a group chat for attention. Disgusting, disown and disengage. Maya did all these horrible things to be popular and get attention, don't give her any ever again. She needs a pysch that can actually help her become a better person instead of feeding into her bs.
@@jeffwilliams9866 id just let her know that, so she never does it again. I couldn't prosecute my own daughter. The school is the main problem now, no way she should set foot in that school with everyone knowing. Needs to move away to put the previous life as far out of mind as possible. Keep the other daughter at arms length a little bit, she clearly doesn't get it at all
It might be hard to prove? Like with saying it to therapist to talk about the situation, it is in "closed space" and supposed to stay here. She could say that those were "close friends that deserved to know and wouldn't tell anyone" and if it was told to others they just deducted what happened because Lucy just stopped showing to school or something. If it were a public post on social media then maybe, but this might not count by law... depending on the lawyer at least
The parent may not fully blame Maya for everything....BUT I DO. Said events would never have happened if she had done as she was told or even been more responsible. Her actions were what led to it happenening thus she is fully responsible for it all.
She all but gift wrapped her sister for a known rapist. Even assuming it wasn't deliberate, and I'm not convinced it wasn't, she is still largely to blame for all of it, and in the aftermath, she just tries to twist the whole thing to her benefit.
There's been another update in the form of an r/AITAH post, where she asked if she'd be the asshole if she withheld Maya's portion of the inheritance from her father (which was being kept until she was 18). She didn't spell out what Maya did but the top comments read her post history and were in favor of Maya not getting a cent.
Full disclosure as someone in the field, the counselor is going to be more on the side of whomever the designated client is, that's kind of the job and a bit of what makes therapy hard when they bring someone else in because who is the client in this situation. Depending on how long therapy has been going on, it may be too early also to even challenge the client on some things even if we want to because its still building rapport and we want to make sure it doesn't cause the client to want to terminate the therapeutic relationship. Often earlier on we want to see the world from their view and provide tools and techniques to help cope with internal stressors before we start asking questions that could see if there are alternative views. A kind of stabilize their footing and ensure they have the means to begin exploring more raw areas.
I see the point, but just asking, WHO is the client when the parents are paying? Like, on one hand the kid is having therapy and might decide to end it (but depending on age might be a bit forced by parents to go anyway), but if you insult parents that are paying, they will probably terminate anyway? I know Maya is old enough to be client herself, but just wondering if she were younger and dependent on mom, will counselor still do the same?
@@ritaerror7829 The client would be the person attending the sessions, the main times this can get challenging to navigate is kinda like an unofficial couples counseling, and sometimes official couples and family counseling where it may be challenging. I'm not actively practicing so it has been a while since I've brushed up on the state laws & ACA code of ethics. IIRC even if the parents are paying and the client is minor, confidentiality still reigns supreme unless the client is a threat to themselves, or others. A counselor will contact a guardian in cases where the client cannot give consent due to age or otherwise if that client is in danger / being harmed or is one to others. The counselor is likely going to be on the side of the client as it is the nature of the relationship to be an assistant in navigating the journey with the client. The reactions of the counselor are going to likely vary based on the counselors theoretical foundation. Not all counselors are the same, not just in personality but approach. You've probably heard of CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, but that's really just one of many theoretical approaches to therapy and not all are applicable to the same clients, or even the same presenting problems. The way they handle a client is likely going to be different than say how one handles a client who has a foundation in Freudian approach. Since I do not know the hypothetical counselor in this story, I cannot tell you what her approach is, we're lacking significant information for me to even begin to distinguish that. Regardless though, even if the client cannot terminate the relationship, I.E being forced to go by a parent, It's a getting further with honey than vinegar approach in a very loose way of putting it. Do you think the child, or, young adult in this case, is going to open up if I start asking questions out of the gate that challenge their held inner world views? Do you think if the client is in denial that they're likely to feel comfortable and trust me if I come on too early? There are some approaches like solution focused therapy that do have means of going at this, but it also is going to be as effective as the clients willingness to change. The client here, Maya, is clearly resistant, and that could be from a plethora of reasons, once more I don't know her, I'm not counseling her, so its all second hand information. The counselor was likely just as surprised on some information because we don't have it all either, we rely on our clients being truthful with us, but sometimes the truth is hard to come out, hence, rapport, rapport, rapport. If you are curious on a lot of the ethical rules of therapy and maybe some of it will answer some other questions that we have to follow, google ACA code of ethics 2014. The first result from counseling is a PDF file that lists the ethical ruleset that counselors in America have to follow, not including any additional state legislature. Breaches of these ethical boundaries can result in a review that could end in punishments of requiring more training, education, probation, suspension and permanent loss of right to practice based on severity. My apologies If I missed anything or went in a weird direction, it's 5 am for me hahaha
@@ritaerror7829Client means patient in this context. My insurance may pay for my therapy but I’m still the client. The point stands if a parent is paying. But I think the therapist effed up. They should be on the clients side on one on one meetings especially in early meetings but more neutral when a session is used as family therapy. Usually a therapist is always aware that they hear their clients pov and other have their own pov. Also they usually should be aware that clients may lie for whatever reason. I can’t imagine how the therapist could have ever agreed that OP wasn’t fair to maya, regardless off maya left out in her sessions. A quick rundown of what happened with just the essentials and leaving out details that make her look even worse should have been more than enough for the therapist to see that maya effed up majorly. With rundown I mean: Maya: I threw a party and invited a lot of people while mom was at work work and I watched my sis 14f. After a while I left and she was r during my absence. Therapist: How do you feel about what happened? maya: I miss my friend. Therapist: ???
Anyone who ever says it's not the job of an older sibling to look after the younger sibling in the absence of parents is just sh1t. Whenever there is a household, all family members automatically have to assume roles based on situations, and that's how family works & moves forward. I am 40 now, and I remember that both my parents worked and needed to leave us alone (with no sitter affordability) for a couple of hours a few times a week. I was tasked with watching my younger sister, i remeber us of when i was in 6th or 7th grade so 12-13, and she was 4 year yonger than me. This is the normal family duty of the elder sibling. Family is a support-based social structure, which is why it has value.
There's two possibilities here. ONE: Maya invited GROWN MEN over while her mom was out, encouraged the harassment of her sister all night long, then abandoned her sister to be assaulted, and she's merely a horrifically and willfully neglectful sister. Or TWO: it was a setup, and when Lucy wouldn't participate willingly, Maya arranged for her unwilling participation, and she's an accomplice to literal gang members. Which of these scenarios is forgivable?
op as a mom must not be aware that maya did drugs... this kind of behaviour is someone who's already doing drugs, that she saw her criminal friends as people cool to hang out with... the whole story, I agree with op reaction to her daughter maya, but then as a mom I think she missed the part when her daughter maya has become the druggie or criminal gang to do all that stuff without remorse
She probably tried to trust her kid, and "everyone as a teen is rebelious". Though even if she knew, what was she supposed to do? Whenever Maya was responsible for Lucy or not, she would still throw party when mom was out. She was already in therapy, and it seemingly didn't help. With her attitude, neither talks or grounding would help her. And just knowing wouldn't be enough to send her... somewhere, dunno, camp? To parents? It could even backfire at OP
@@ritaerror7829 I'm saying, the period of time when Maya was still under her "jurisdiction" as a "mother", teen age, or whatever age, she must have missed that time when her own daughter grow up and befriend the wrong people and became druggie... people don't change overnight...if Maya is her daughter too, she would have watch Maya grow just like how she is protective over Lucy and would have known when her daughter changed to a different person - I'm saying the period of time before all this happens, did she always put Maya as baby sitter to Lucy?
@@radziahradzi probably the son was a babysitter before he moved out. And my point is, what should a mother do when seeing those signs? Yeah, they don't change overnight, but again, what should be done?
@@ritaerror7829 mother should spend more time with them, before that happens. That you say big bro could be babysitting her before he left, probably shows the mom didn't parent her kids, letting the kids babysit themselves, that's one of the reasons that lead to wrong selection of friends
I never think i would say this before, but i hope maya gets the same medicine/karma what her sister went through just to know the pain of it. And this time she would be alone without any support she could lean.
Maya put her in a dangerous situation 18 is old enough to know better,then left her in a house with strangers. I couldn't get over this. Send her away before you do something you'll regret.
The fact that you can state that you don’t hate your daughter shows your love as a mother; it is NOT wrong to love your child even when they do wrong, but you are also not wrong to in your feelings toward Maya. If she had done as she had been asked, this situation would never have happened. She may not have been the cause, but she was the catalyst.
Maya needs to go to jail. There is only one cause to this situation. That is Maya, who cares how ignorant she was. That is no excuse. Maya shouldn't ever be in charge of or have children ever.
and to think court only gave her weeks after she indirectly commited rape and sexual assault (and maybe even attempted murder tons of people die from rape).
@@MOST-CONFIDENT My comment got deleted. So umm something that is crazy going down over the past few weeks in the THORP stuff have you seen it online? Metokur covered it. Fathers day dads of the internet edition. You should check it out. That first story has clips and stuff it's crazy. Seems I can't mention the his name without the comments auto banning it on RUclipss end. Watch that and let your jaw drop.
The thing is, whether or not she was trying to set up her sister to get her assaulted is completely irrelevant, because she had made multiple purposeful choices to allow this to happen: 1. She threw a party despite not being allowed 2. She didnt invite any of her sister's friends 3. She invited several grown adult men who she fully knew had gang associations 4. She left her alone with the gang members without giving a heads up, and 5. She didnt have anyone watch over her while she was gone. She had several opportunities to prevent this from happening. She could have abstained from throwing a party. She could have not invited people she fully knew were gang members. She could have taken her sister with her when going outside. She has permanently ruined her sister's life by being ignorant, irresponsible, and (speculatively) downright malicious. Not only that, but the fact that she had the gall to ask why she should apologize makes her evidently repulsive and unforgivable. If i was the parent, i quite frankly would have fought for the harshest punishment she could have gotten in court and any love i had for her would have disappeared into thin air the moment she told people her sister got assaulted without her sister agreeing to people being told about it.
She definitely set her up. She let a a group of men harass her sister, while knowing about ALL the charges on them. And she wasn't even sorry about it?
This story is infuriating! I don’t blame the mum for feeling that way. I didn’t do anywhere near that, and when my mum told me to leave and I asked “where will I go? She’s just respond with- that’s not my problem. You helped her get lawyers, therapist, told her to stay with her grandparents so you knew she’d be safe. The therapist making you feel bad for protecting the child clearly left with trauma, is... truly unforgivable.
Maya's unrepenant attitude and taking it so easy is most likely because she was mentally prepared for it to happen, she doesn't find it a big deal maybe because she got some benefit from those men. No eighteen year old in her sane mind won't know that she cannot leave four grown men in their house with a 14 year old and go to McDonalds when there are so many food delivery options available these days. We can assume that she was not involved but Maya went out to buy food and not even one of her so called "friends" volunteered to tag along with her and from what OP has told Maya has a queen bee attitude but she just left without throwing any tantrum to those men?
Holy crap at the end when she described finding her poor daughter in the closet... just hearing that made me feel sick, I can't even imagine the pain and rage you feel in that moment as a mother
Will people with serious issues like R please stop going to "therapists"?! They are NOT psychiatrists, have less schooling and training, and are basically no different than any one on social media in your DMs.The reason this therapist was so manipulated by Maya is because she has never had the training and experience a psychiatrist or psychologist has. Neither one of those would have fallen for Maya's pity party BS. They would have diagnosed her very obvious disorder (could be sociopath, could be bipolar, could be extreme narcissism, or any number of things a therapist cannot diagnose or treat). Therapists have done more harm for patients than ever in recent years. All good insurances pay for mental help with a real professional psychiatrist and psychologist. If yours doesn't, get a new one.
Maya screwed up big time. The bigger problem is the fact that she does not appreciate the severity of her actions - only that she is being targeted for all the things against her. The therapist is only going by what what Maya said and chances are she painted a rose-tinited version of the incident. But until she understands her role and the consequences of her actions, there can never be forgiveness for her. The fact that she was protecting the identity of her friends was the breaking point. I am surprised that this alone did not get her kicked out of the house for good. She chose her friends over her family. That is unacceptable.
I definitely think she set her sister up. 1. The guys were in a gang. 2. She kept trying to set sister with one of these older guys. “Get her out of her shell” my a$$. To me she either was just wanting to get her “annoying” sister away so she could do other things (or boys) or get her with that boy to please him. 3. She left the house to go to get McDonald’s? Why not order it or get someone who doesn’t live at that house to make a food run? Why would you want a bunch of ppl in your house when you’re not there and the only one living there that is there is your minor sister?!? I think she wanted one of the guys to like her or be in this gang in someway. Lucy was her way in so she was trying to get her to him easier. I think she told them she was going to McDonald’s and which room was Lucy’s. The fact that she wouldn’t tell them the names. DNA from the attack helped more than the DNA between family. I hope OP kicks Maya out of their lives for good.
open your eyes OP Maya set lucy up . Maya is 90% responsible for orchistrating this those men were just happy to enjoy this opportunity provided to them.
Maya should be punished for the rest of her life. Don’t even let her be alone with Lucy for one day. She’s done enough damage. I would probably yell and argue with my own daughter if she did that to her sister and played victim. Get the other daughter in question to babysit Lucy or get a babysitter. This is a horrible situation to be in. I hope you and your daughters can heal and recover from this disgusting and tragic incident.
If I had a daughter like Maya, I would never be able to be near her out of the fear that I would seriously hurt her. How absolutely fucking disgusting. She paints herself as the victim when she's partially the cause her younger sister got SA'd??? Absolutely not. I don't think I could ever consider someone like that as my child anymore.
I don't blame this mom for being so upset with her older child until the older child can truly understand what her sister has gone through and take responsibility for her own actions the mother needs to keep her away from the younger child.
Maya probably wrote the 1st comment: both said she wasn't the one at fault for what 4 men did to her sister despite OP clearly said she was paid to look after her sister. Now, if you wanna argue that setting Lucy up is part of the job, well... it exposes who you really are
I knew a girl this happened to. Way back when I was in HS in the mid-to-late 90s, my best friend decided to throw a party while her mother was away. While my friend was drunk off her rocker, and canoodling with her boyfriend, a guy ended up going into her 13-year-old little sister's room and SAing her. I was fighting with my friend over some petty matter at the time, which is the only reason I wasn't at the party. I didn't find out until 2 weeks later, after my friend and I had made up, and she told me that they hadn't called the police because she was afraid of getting into trouble for throwing a party. She convinced her little sister to just keep quiet about it all, and she did. I was flabbergasted by that, especially when she told me how scared she'd been because her sister was bleeding heavily for days afterwards. I ended up calling DSS anonymously that same night and reporting it, but our system is so broken down here that I'd be surprised if they ever even showed up. I reported it under the guise of being a teacher who overheard some students talking about it, but I never heard anything from my friend about them visiting. She would've grilled me like crazy had they actually made an appearance, as she was the type who would've cut me off if she believed I'd broken her trust like that. I normally wouldn't have, but her sister was like family to me. I wanted her to get medical help and I wanted the sub-human waste of flesh who hurt her behind bars. Sadly, neither happened. I was just 16 at the time, and there wasn't an internet around to help guide me back then. I wish I had done more, because that girl never did get over what was done to her, but at the time, I just didn't know what I could do. I knew my parents wouldn't care, so I didn't tell them, and don't even get me started on the police in this area back then. I didn't even knew the guy's name, as my friend had told everyone involved to never tell me. She was afraid I'd "make things worse". Yeah, that was the point. I wanted to make things A LOT worse for that PoS. Of course, given my temperament at that age it was probably best I didn't know, as I wasn't trying to locate his dumb ass in order to call the cops on him.
No doubt in my mind this was a set up. Who tries to put their 14 year old sister with a 18 year old man. She witnessed how uncomfortable Lucy was and made the conscious decision to leave her alone. She didn’t give names because she “gave” Lucy to them to join the gang. And im sure the hug was a thank you for getting her in. That’s why she didn’t show any remorse or apologize because she isn’t sorry. She’s 18 if she wants to do some heinous shit put her ass on the street where she belongs. I hope Maya gets the karma she deserves 10x over for using her sister to get into a gang. That’s beyond vile and I hope OP opens her eyes
Apparently Maya never checked on Lucy after getting back from her McDonald's 'run', that seems to cement the reality on top of all the other details that she cares nothing about her. It would be understandable if the mother disowns Maya but unfortunately Lucy will most likely take on the additional burden of believing she caused it. I hope Lucy can find the help she needs to heal and eventually thrive.
WTF was Maya thinking leaving her 14 year old sister with a 17 year old who was harassing her all night then leaving her with grown adults at a party!!!
Maya knew about these men, she knew they were already violent men with criminal records, and knew Lucy wasn't interested in the one she was trying to set her up with, but she still left her alone in that house with them. She is most definitely an accomplice. Also, that therapist needs to be reevaluated because no way in hell are they just brushing off what happened to Lucy as an "accident," unless Maya wasn't telling them the entire truth of what happened to her
So Maya is definitely a psycho and danger to others, specially her little sister. And I understand not wanting to think that your daughter would set up her little sister to be SAed buuuuut there is plenty of red flags that indicate that Maya, almost surely, knew of the assault before it happened and did it to *purpousefully* harm Lucy. I would not be surprised if she did planned or gave the go ahead while in the party or that she had it planned before hand. So let recap, she invited gang members (and there is no way did not knew this) to her mom's house, on a night she knew mom would not be there, then attempted to setup her sister with one of those thugs and left her alone with strangers and this criminals. Furthermore, when questioned she refused to give up names, she minimized and mocked the trauma of her sister, then revealed what happened to her against Lucy's wishes re-traumatizing her sister. And THEN, then, she has the audacity to play the victim. not to mention I'm pretty sure that Maya only revealed what happened to Lucy because lucy herself was getting a semblance of normality already and that pissed her. I have no proof but neither doubts. OP you're an awesome mother and godamn saint because I would tell Maya: _From this point onwards I have one daughter. You're moving out, you will not take anything that you did not fully paid for, you will not contact us, you will not contact your grandparents, you will forget we ever existed as we will forget about you. I will call the police if you ever come near my one and only daughter or grandchildren if I ever have some_ _I truly wish that you never experienced what "hundreds of women" go through every day, I sincerely hope it never "becomes your whole personality" and, if you ever have children of your own, that you'll love them enough to not put them in harms way nor that you experience the anger, the impotence and the betrayal of what you, Maya, did to us. And the only thing I can recommend to lessen the chances of it happening is to avoid associating with obvious/known criminals_
It looks as if Maya actually eet this whole thing up. No remorse whatsoever for what her sister went through despite knowing what type of people she was inviting. Then proceeding to not be honest with the police. Yeh if i was you ill getva lawyer to see her involvement in this.
FOCUS: How could you leave your home while there are people inside it?? Never mind the rest of the story!! It's common knowledge that the host stays with their guests.
Honestly, Maya's actions, sociopathic personality, people she associated with, uncooperativeness after the fact, and lack of remorse, all screams intentional setup. As in, Maya wanted and actively worked towards Lucy getting SA'd. People underestimate just how evil and depraved teenagers can be, and Maya raises every red flag there is.
I heard stories about girls helping guys in situations like this cause the girl as a crush on one of the guys. So yeah, she's mad that her crush went to jail. And it was a set up.
Omg! Maya may have actually set her sister up. She knew exactly what her friends were capable of. It will be hard but OP has to cut off her oldest daughter, the sociopath. I’m so very sorry for OP & Lucy.
Okay but being friends with someone that later rapes your sibling *can* be traumatic. I doubt that Maya would like to stay friends with any of these guys after what they did, I think it's more like, she's grieving over their image in her head. It's not that absurd, she probably feels disgusted and betrayed by them and there's nothing weird with that. And yes, Maya is to blame for how she neglected Lucy. She seems pretty immature and greatly misled, plus of course what she said about Lucy was terrible, but damn, the whole situation surely isn't easy for her emotionally. It's completely valid that the mother's primary concern is Lucy's mental health, but it doesn't mean that Maya wasn't hurt in this or can't feel hurt about this.
Whoever said that Maya isn't to be blamed, RUclips will not let me say what I have to say about that. Maya knew that these people were dangerous, and she left her in the house with them after knowing that she rejected someone who was pestering her for a kiss. And she KNOWS they have criminal charges. The worst part to me was that disgusting comment she made saying essentially that other women experienced it too and "at least they aren't making it their whole personality." I would have disowned her at that point.
people who are siding with maya or trying to divert the blame by blaming the parenting are seriously disgusting Like seriously stfu She defo set lucy up probably to join the gang or for whatever reasons It’s literally the most disgusting thing ever u can ever do to anyone let alone her little sister She is psychotic and definitely is an accomplice in this assault Op needs to disown her and some jail time might be good as well I am so sorry for Lucy and op . Op definitely needs to kick maya out of their life And yeah the therapist needs to to lose their license I am just so disgusted by this story
The girl that says to just blame the men is that annoying person to talk to, she just hates men, that girl, caused everything she knew, she knew it all but didn't do anything she probably knew what they were going to her sister and that's why she left, I feel so sorry for the mother, and it's probably a good idea that the father doesn't know.
I think the part that bothered me the most was the explanation that Maya had been 'trying to put Lucy with this one guy'. Like...what does that mean? Does that mean she was saying 'hey, stand next to this guy instead of me for a while', does it mean she was trying to get Lucy to *talk* to this guy, or was she trying to get her *14 year old* sister to hook up with this guy? Like...maybe I'm more effected by this because I find the notion of sex at all disgusting, but the thought of Maya even *suggesting* a 14 year old be sexually active with *anyone* that 14 year old had not expressed enthusiastic interest in beforehand is stomach churning for me. I don't have enough details to make any actual calls on this, and luckily I don't have to, but I hope OP and Lucy are healing, and that Maya is in a situation that doesn't allow her to cause more harm, accidentally or otherwise. I also hope that OP talked with that therapist that Maya was going to, explaining the actual facts of the case and the current home life, because if that person heard the same story we did about how this happened and was still calling it an 'accident', then that person should not be responsible for the mental health of vulnerable people. It seems likely to me that Maya simply doctored the story to make it sound like she had a lot less culpability for the situation that allowed this to happen. Its possible that she *does* feel bad but is reacting to that guilt by trying to minimize the events. A lot of people do that, will feel shame for something but talk themselves out of it by recontextualizing it as 'not actually that big a deal'. So there's a couple of ways this therapist could have heard a doctored story, but if they didn't, and they *knew* the real details of the night and still agree that Lucy was 'being dramatic' over an 'accident'? I feel like you should report that person somewhere, to some sort of governing body that checks in on whether or not medical professionals should loose their licenses. I've heard of a few terrible therapists who allow their personal agendas to infect what they tell people, and I've read stories of ruined families because of these people, so...if there's a way to get bad therapists out of the profession, it should happen.
i dislike this person, has a view on how a family needs to be and seems really not wanting it to be broken trying to find any reason to get maya back in the house, doenst want to talk to her oldest son even if its the biggest deal that they may have had, just because she again has a view on how newly wedded needs to be, i dont get really good vibes to where all this i going, lucy needs so much more care than what i´m seing displayed and an only mom more centrated in if she can have her daughter (maya) back, she said so much details of how likely this was a set up, she said such horrifics things and should be in jail, what op is trying to do is forgiving somethig she has no right in forgiving
This is the problem when you are a (probably loving) parent of a criminal. It was bad, and OP feels it with the whole "disliking" thing, but she can't just accept how her "own sweet kid" could do that. Also with the son, she said Lucy was in hospital, so maybe she wanted her to be stable before sharing the news (not great if Lucy wouldn't make it, but also with how she was assulted by people probably his age she could think it wouldn't be the best for him to come), and then said she was going out with son's wife, so they did get to know and support Lucy
Everyone needs counseling. I would have loved for my parents to punish my sister for what she did to me. Or even acknowledge what she did to me. Make maya work at a grape crisis center, homeless shelter. Or other insightful job. R is something that doesn't go away. And have future reactions that maya will never see. I assume maya acting out because of dad gone not something else. But she needs to get passed her issues or she has a long life of hurt in front of her. To this day my sister has not revealed what happened to her as a child. But mayas deliberate incompetence is causing significant harm to others. Set her straight now. She should be with someone else. If her impulsiveness is leading to felonies who knows what else is next.
Maya is a problem. Coincidentally, my older sister is also named Maya. She has caused problems for me, encouraged her friends to verbally harass me in our home, and still lies about who I am as an adult (who doesn’t interact with her). My parents knew Maya displayed all of this behavior and did nothing about it. Not even a, “don’t do that.” In short, good for that mom for trying to protect her family from Maya. I hope the mother here continues to protect her family and not soften or allow Maya back in her home before she’s done the work and has proven she is no longer intentionally hurtful.
The commenter saying Maya isn't to blame is unhinged.
She threw a party, let those guys in, with full knowledge of their gang affiliation, *LEFT THE HOUSE* and *LEFT HER SISTER WITH STRANGERS, UNSUPERVISED* . She's an accomplice.
It's reddit, everyone wants to spin the narrative. Add to this not really reading the post and people go wild. I can see how someone would want to justify Maya before the update, especially with how little OP described her behaviour at party, and after with the consequences, but it's clear now she was at fault
And it also says she was encouraging them to hit on her sister and trying to encourage her sister to get with one of them? That's fucking weird man.
That not wanting to cooperate sealed the deal for me.
Don't forget she tried to set her up with one of the guys who was too old for her sister.
@@JaredGivens1 She also refused to give their names to the police although she clearly knew who it was, wanting to defend at least her one "friend".
After hearing the update, I'm pretty sure Maya set Lucy up for her attack. Don't ever let her around Lucy again.
I was thinking the same thing or at least there’s a good chance especially if some of the comments are true about her involvement in drugs or gang activity.
Especially alone
it IS MAYA's fault. she threw the party, invited grown men and left her sister
Right? She wasn't the one who did the deed, but she was the one who enabled it by inviting thugs
yeah mcd run? why? i feel like she set the whole thing up. maybe she wanted her sister to be as degenerate as her so she wouldnt feel bad (yes, a lot of women work like that)
Had plenty of chances to prove she regretted it, but clearly she had other plans 🤷♂️
She knew exactly what she was doing. She pimped out her sister to her gang and was an accomplice.
The rape is the 4 mens fault who did it and only their fault. Maya however is at fault for basically trafficking her sister. The cops took her in so it says to me she had more involvement than simply leaving. She tried to get her to get with a boy 3 years older (that is already too old for her 2 year max or it is rape because even if she wanted him shes not capable of true consent they are not peers with that big of an age gap. Kids do so much growing so quickly so its not like being 25 with a 28 year old by then that age gap isnt an issue.
She then let the boy harass her and left her alone with him.
For her words to her mom throughout this like Lucy is being a baby mom you always jump in to defend her I believe she intentionally let this happen. The fact shes grieving the loss of the friendship. I bet you hes not talking to her because he got in trouble not her cutting him off because he raped her sister. Shes mad she cant be friends with him anymore. She blames Lucy for that too. Her words tell me she purposely set this up. Shes at fault for breaking rules with a party, shes at fault for neglecting her sister at best trafficking her at worst and that would be EQUALLY as bad as raping her herself though still a seperate crime to the rape itself. She could have left her there and them to not choose to rape her so the actions of rape were their choice and only on them. Even if they hadnt raped her the sister was neglectful at best but potentially trying to get her sister hurt at worst and she should still have been severely punished for that. She needs to be punished for what she did and they need to be punished for what they did. Shes jealous of baby sister and shes the middle child they tend to feel left out (they dont tend to do shite like this but the feelings of neglect would be typical for a middle child). She did this because shes jealous of her.
It was 100% a set up. Why would all these grown men be in your house otherwise.
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this.
Its not because they were there parties attract all sorts of types. However what says set up to me is a number of things. She tried to get her sister with the damn near grown one who isnt a peer was too old for her. She let him harass her all night. When talking to the cops they decided she needed to be in trouble too. That alone could be a mistake but all all the things no I dont think it was. Then add she has no remorse, but more telling is she also told people knowing the news hadnt released sisters name. She is INTENTIONALLY hurting her in other ways. Shes playing dumb about it and then gaslighting about it claiming lucy is being dramatic. Most telling thing is the resentment from the words about mom always defending Lucy even when shes being a baby about it.
Psychologically look at her being the middle child too. No that doesnt excuse it most middle children dont do shite like this but I mean they do tend to feel left out or neglected. Oldest got alone time with parent before they came along, parent bonded with oldest alone. The baby will be the baby the last one. It is a natural thing that happens that the middle child feels neglected.
However in this case she has severe resentment to the point she thinks its no big deal she got raped. Shes more mad that it came between her and her friend the rapist the worst one of the rapists.
I bet you ANYTHING that he stopped being friends with her when he got in trouble. Shes 18 mom cant force her not to be his friend and shes mad she lost her friend.
Yeah she did it definitely on purpose but for no other reason than she resented her sister. Asking why she told so many people her sister was the one raped is pointless. She isnt stupid she knew it would hurt her more and she did it on purpose.
I mean, depends on what you mean by grown men. They could've been in their 20s, she was 18, and such friendships are pretty normal or at least not unheard of. If they'd been over 30, I'd start suspecting a set up, but they probably weren't. They were adults, as was Maya, but probably young adults.
yes, Maya wanted revenge because she broke up with her 17y.o. boyfriend who said 'I like you more than you sister, plus you ard a virgin which I like' to then 12 y.o. Lia. This was not an incident.
You know 100% Maya gave her sister to the gang leader to get into the gang. The therapist needs to lose their license for even thinking r*pe was an accident. 🤬
To be fair, we don't know what exactly therapist was told by Maya. We know what happened from OP's perspective and who those friends were, but it seems like Maya only talked how it 'affected' her, and could spin it like her friends don't talk to her/ she don't have time or attention because 'Lucy is dramatizing'.
@@ritaerror7829 Yeah, given how she was apparently vague on who the culprits might have been (when she knew full well that one of them had been harassing her), it's entirely possible she spun a story to the therapist.
@@MsAnimefan95I think thats exactly what happened
@MsAnimefan95 Yeah I think that's the case. Especially since the therapist was also shocked at Maya's response.
Therapists are not frickin cops. They don't necessarily know the whole background, it all depends on what Maya has told them. A therapist should not lose their job for not finding out something even the police didn't.
All she had to do was take her younger sister with her. Full stop. She set her up.
Agreed. A smart and loving sister would have if she only went to such a party because a smart and loving sister wouldn’t have invited them or had such a party in the first place.
Basically pimped her own sister out, evil
@@jeffwilliams9866 uk as a big sister with a little sis and lots of younger cousin no way in hell i would ever put them in the same room with thungs let alone trying to set her up with one of them and u bet any piece of shit would end up in ER if i find them harrasing her dont care friend or not.simple. throughout the story i was just shocked . ok fine even if it was an accident and hypothetically she didnt know her friends were associated with thugs HOW CAN YOU CALL YOUR OWN SIS DRAMATIC AFTER WHAT HAPPENED. thats just pure disgusting . she wasnt remorseful at allll in fact i doubt this bother her in the slightest except for the fact that her dear friends ended up in jail.
@@syminreed3922 true, and there’s a chance she set her sister up for that intentionally which others suggested and I believe there’s good probability she did do that intentionally given her behavior and apparent lack of concern or responsibility for what happened to her sister.
@@jeffwilliams9866 A smart sister wouldn’t have those men there in the first place first place.
"I wanted to open Lucy up, she was sitting by me the whole party." Uh, so, a 14 year old wanted to stick to her sisters side during a party with people SHE doesnt know...? Yeah, Maya only cared about the party and the popularity she would get from it.
Nope she did this intentionally. She has no empathy that she was raped, she says she didnt rape her so she didnt do anything wrong, more so than any of this was her telling mom she always sides with Lucy even when shes "being a baby". Middle children tend to have resentment that is natural but not to this level they would try to put their baby sister with someone too old for her and let him harass her.
Shes more resentful the rapist didnt want to be her friend anymore because hes in trouble than she is that he raped her sister. Shes 18 mom cant make her not be friends with him, shes mad she cant be his friend and mad mom isnt more worried about that.
She knew as well that no one told Lucys name in the paper. Asking her why she told people was pointless she is just going to lie and gaslight and she did. She said they were being dramatic and its no big deal and everyone knew anyway.. when they didnt and she knew that. That was an intentional malicious thing she did plus the resentment and victim blaming shes doing while acting like mom should have coddled her instead for having to spend a night or two in jail...... yeah all around this was malicious and intentional.
She didnt care about the party she cared about herself, her goals, her wants, her anger towards her little sister and mom, and she tried to get this guy to get with her. Shes mad he stopped being her friend/rapist/worst of the rapists when he got caught
Big sisters don't like their little sisters tag along all the time. But you bet in this situation I'd be the one scolding my sister if she left my eye sight. Heck. Don't even let go of my hand. Not even having the party in 1st place.
@@NessieNice I'm also a big sister, and this so true, like, Who would throw a party without their parents permission, try to get their sister with some stranger, and then leave and get her assaulted? like wtf?
"I wanted her to open up", coupled with everything else, screams orhestration. She's fr a sociopath. Likely rationalised some form of jealousy of her younger sister, especially as she complained about emotional neglect... as an adult!
That's what I'm thinking. She felt bad for how innocent Lucy was, so she wanted to corrupt her. Happens a lot in mostly female friend groups.
Hi, sociopathy is not a diagnosis! It's usually what people call Antisocial Personality Disorder or another cluster b like histrionic or narcissism. Would you be shocked if I told you it is incredibly rare for these disorders to simply be genetic (and if they were the signs are extremely obvious if you're paying attention for the first 18 years of your daughters life and therapy is extremely helpful for these disorders). It is more common, however, for them to be a result of childhood neglect! Most of these disorders are either a cry for attention like borderline and histrionic, while others are based on feeling you can literally only rely on yourself and everyone else will fail you or other people take away from your ability to care for yourself, like with narcissism or antisocial.
Basically what I'm saying is sociopathy is 9 times out of 10 a result of childhood neglect.
Lucy having an unhealthy attachment with her sister (Defending her after her actions led to a traumatic event.) and then asking her mom if she ruined their family shows that this is a dysfunctional home from the start. I also felt like it was my fault my home was being ripped apart when my parents found out about my brother assaulting me, but that's coz my parents lack of communication and the anger I felt every time I was near them. Not communicating is also neglect.
What I'm saying is that Maya was most likely neglected her whole life along with the other kids in the family and this is just the manifestation of all that neglect the kids faced. And now the mom is confused as to how her kid ended up this way. News flash, its the mom's fault!
What does her being an adult have to do with her complaining about emotional neglect? Do you think adults can't experience emotional neglect from their loved ones? Or are you saying that they shouldn't bring it up and instead just keep it in until it explodes? I'm not taking sides or making a statement about Maya's morality here, I'm just a little puzzled by that last bit of your comment.
I have the feeling Maya wanted to join that gang and used her sister to get it, and it is disgusting. I hope she face the consequences of her actions and that OP disowns her.
if your kid chooses to join a gang before they're out of your house it's your fault as the parent, I'm sorry. I was friends with an ex gang member and he joined the gang coz he was neglected and they made him feel seen and like he had a family. I've heard that from nearly every kid who joins a gang. That they joined coz it felt like family and someone having your back and like you'd be assured safety to some degree. Kids usually join gangs because they don't feel supported in other areas. Like yes, Maya grew up to be awful, but lets not let OP off the hook for making this monster.
Basically, if this were your kid, you can kick her out, but that doesn't band aid over the fact that you raised the monster you're booting out of your home, it just let's you pretend you had no part in it and makes it easier for you alone.
It's the fault of peer pressure@@abarbienamedken3334
@@abarbienamedken3334 Don't you put the whole blame on the parent, while yes some of the blame MAY lay with the parent, we do not know that. what we do know is that Maya left her sister with men that were affiliated with gangs, all alone, and it is HER fault she got assaulted. I do not like how you're trying to push the view away from the kid toward the parent, I grew up in a shitty household, poverty and abuse, but guess what? I had my sisters back and she had mine, and while it wasn't all happiness and rainbows I learnt my weak spots and worked to better them on my own. Seeking validation, joining a gang etc is no excuse for knowingly putting your sister in danger
@@abarbienamedken3334dude some kids are just assholes. Lets not act like any 16-18 yr old doesnt know what they’re doing. They aren’t babies ffs. I’m 19, do you know just how many people my age from younger ages understand that what Maya did was absolutely fucked? Maya is 18, shes not 10.
@@abarbienamedken3334 Maya is literally an adult
It is MAYA's FAULT, she invited gangmembers into your HOME, what the f did she think would happen? drink tea? she set her little sister up to get r word.
At this point, I'd just disowned Maya, and move and not tell anyone where I was going.
For me this is in layers; OP is even entertaining the idea of forgiving Maya, OP is letting Maya remain in the home. OP isn't pursuing criminal charges against Maya.
@scottpelletier7095 She didn't let her stay. She sent her to live with her grandparents, as for criminal charges, there really isn't anything to charge her for, that'll actually stick, and op already admitted her blunder to helping her with the child endangerment charge.
My thoughts too. My God, am I glad to be a mom to only one child.
For real. I was chanting do "disown her!" When they were talking at the therapist office.
Imagine what the commenters' reaction would have been if it were an older brother who had left his adolescent sister in the home with several grown men.
Saying that Maya is not at fault, when she threw the party, is psychotic.
op's son wouldn't have done what Maya did. (mainly cus he just got married but still)
@@Ravens-Call I think they meant that if Maya was male, it wouldn't have been justified
This was absolutely a set up. That poor girl. And the fact others heard the screaming and didn't do anything is disgusting.
OP should change her will so that Maya doesn’t inherit anything.
THANK GOODNESS
True
Uncovered your eyes, Maya set Lucy up.
thinking the same thing.
Maya totally set her up by pushing one of the guys on her. She's 100% to blame.
Maya is at fault here. She didn't care that her sister was assaulted. She's playing the victim card. She knew these guys were criminals and still,left her sister alone with these thugs. I hope they got long prison sentences. Selling the house is a good idea. Lucy probably doesn't feel safe there. Maya needs to own up to what she did. Call me evil if you want but I would not allow her in the new house until she apologizes. You can help her financially until gets on her feet. But Maya needs to learn accountability. Just sayin.
100% right! Maya didn't even feel sorry for what she did and all she did was hug her sister. She even said she overheard her sister she probably hasn't even been talking or hanging out with her sister. I pray Lucy can move on from this trauma and hopefully realize how selfish her sister really is. And Lucy's sister in law is a WAYYY better sister than Maya.
You're a better person than me. If I were the mother I would never allow that Maya girl in my house ever again. She clearly showed no regrets and dismisses what happened to her sister, which was her fault, and sees it as an inconvenience to her. There's something really disturbing about that girl. People like that could easily lie and beg for forgiveness but never mean it, they just play a role to get what they want. If she were regretful she had been so since day one. Not just because her mom told her off.
Yeah Maya needed to learn a lot of things her mother never taught her apparently.
And then the mother has the gull to be like "I don't know how this happened! She must have been born a sociopath and I somehow failed to notice for the 18 years I was responsible for her health including her mental health!" and then fails to realize sociopathy is 90% of the time a personality disorder that's the result of neglect and this taking place in the family proves its dysfunctional to begin with. This doesn't happen in happy, functional families with good parenting and communication...
Y'all are letting the mom too off the hook while still saying Maya needs to learn like yes she does, I wonder who was supposed to have taught her that though. Wild.
I wouldn't call you evil, cause I would never allow her back, and disown her.
@@abarbienamedken3334 OP didn't say Maya was a sociopath, the comments did, OP was just replying to them. And no, Maya being an awful person does not mean OP was abusing her or was a bad parent. Something most people seem to forget is that most of the time if someone has a personality disorder or just a sh*ty personality in general it doesn't matter how great of a parent you are they'll still have it at the end of the day. I don't think my grandparents were the greatest parents to my mom and her siblings but if only my aunt grew up to be an abusive, lying, cheating, mess of a person/mother while my mom and uncles who have kids turned out to be good/great parents, then I don't think you can just blame it on the parents all the time.
Maya definitely strikes me as a sociopath. She's dangerous to herself and to others, the fact that she cared more about "losing a friend" than about her sister? That's a tell-tale sign right there.
Holy shit, this story made my stomach churn either way. I'm disgusted and appalled with how this whole thing went down and with the fact that Maya knew these dudes were no good, yet she let them harass her sister anyway. The fact she left right before they SA'ed her is just troubling.
My heart goes out to OP and especially to Lucy. I can't even fathom how traumatized that poor girl is from what happened. Something tells me she won't ever fully recover from this, even with years of therapy.
I'm sorry if I'm rambling, I have family that was SA'ed so this hits home with me. This is the first time a story made my stomach churn like this in a long time.
Yes, this is awful 😢
It almost sounds like her (Maya’s) convenient departure was PLANNED and Maya possibly had an ACTIVE part in sister’s assault. I hope not but by some of her actions and the comments, it’s a real possibility. If she was doing drugs or was trying to join the gang or both, then the chances of her being even more involved by planning it, is much stronger.
@@jeffwilliams9866 also, it was a party with adult men, pretty sure that if not drugs, there was at least alcohol. She's old enough to know how bad it can get! And I think Lucy could too... like, she just got to her room and go to sleep? Pretty sure she locked the door at least, but the guys STILL get inside (unless they have weird doors without lock, but still)
Ugh, yes! I totally agree and I think that this is probably one of the most heart wrenching stories I've seen.
As someone who was SA'd by my older brother and my parents acted shocked like OP, I blame the mother. Sociopathy doesn't happen without neglect (its rare for it to be genetic and not caused by trauma/neglect and its not even a diagnosis, it's usually a personality disorder that is very noticeable to non-neglectful parents and easily treatable with therapy especially at young ages.)
This shit doesn't happen in happy functional homes where the parents are paying attention to their kids mental health. This happens in neglectful dysfunctional families.
"I raised you better!" clearly not. My parents said that to my brother and yet I heard my dad say marital SA doesn't exist. The parents are never innocent when a kid turns out this bad. My dad also said he was the one who suffered most in this scenario coz it was his kids when I was literally the one who got SA'd by my own brother who I trusted but yanno. I can't stand parents who end up letting their trauma in the scenario get in the way of taking care of their traumatized kid. The fact Lucy is blaming herself for breaking up the family shows OP is not doing a good enough job of communicating with her and also hiding her obvious disdain for the problem she raised.
Happy kids with good parents don't turn into bad people like this.
My heart bleeds for Lucy who was the victim of all of this. I don't feel an ounce of pity for the mother though. As someone who was a Lucy, I will NEVER give the parents any pity in these scenarios where one kids poor raising leads to the other being traumatized. If OP's hurting, fucking good, your parenting led to this so I do not care, just don't let it get in the way of you supporting the actual victim.
I have a hunch but his sounds like a damn set up. She threw the party, she invited these men, she tried to set her sister up with one of them, conveniently leaves, and withholds the names of her 'friends' during a police investigation...
The lack of remorse on her end and attempting to excuse and down play a violent SA, and deciding to mourn the loss of her friendship with one of these monsters instead be outraged on her sister's behalf, is pretty telling where she is on this.
This girl can't be trusted and shouldn't be around her sister. Because I feel like this would not be a one time incident
It's 100% Maya’s fault and she should've been charged the same as the grapists. She brought 4 grown a$$ men into the house, knew they were in a gang and were criminals, allowed her sister to get harassed and had Lucy’s boundaries pushed, did nothing when those men hurt Lucy, told people what happened to Lucy, focused on her own selfish feelings about this rather than Lucy, and then kept victim blaming her and brought up how Lucy was talking to a guy, like she somehow deserved what happened to her for just being a teenaged girl.
All this and Maya denied any accountability. I know the courts didn't say it, but Maya sounds like an accomplice to me.
Grapist? Was there fruit involved?
@@jeffwilliams9866 YT shadowbans/delete comments with sensitive words, people don't wanna risk it
@@jeffwilliams9866remove the g- it’s for censorship
@@jeffwilliams9866 not the right place for dumb jokes.
Maya needs to go to jail for setting up her minor sister. She was responsible for her safety and well being and not only failed the job, but was the cause of it. She sounds like a sociopath.
My parents paid me to watch my brother when they were out for the night. The first time I was 13 and he was 9 (we’re Gen Xers ..) I remember about the 2nd or 3rd time, I ended up having to call my parents because he was running a fever, had a headache and was bleeding from his ear (small droplets - he suffered a lot of ear infections around that time of life). When they came home, I had him on the couch with my brand new pillow (really soft and comfortable to lay on) and had given him some children’s Tylenol. Thankfully, it was just another ear infection, but I was still very anxious. He could be an incredibly annoying little brother, but I could NEVER imagine letting him get injured or assaulted if there was absolutely anything I could do to stop it!!
You did great at your age.
So grateful to the later posters who expressed genuine concern for Lucy’s and OP’s mental well-being. Ensuring that Lucy has a strong support base, and learning that her Brother and S-I-L are taking an active part in encouraging and supporting her.
The fact that the sister cared more about losing a "friend" then her sister getting violently attacked is purely DISGUSTING. I'm sure Maya would feel different if SHE was the one who got attacked instead.
That Maya girl is a psychopath. Plain and simple. Shows no shame and no remorse and yes, it was 💯 her fault what happened. She had one job, to take care of her sister and she goes and exposes her to criminals. OP just move with your other daughter and don't tell your psycho daughter your address. Keep her at arm's length like forever. Some people are just rotten.
It’s 50% her fault and 50% the rapists fault
@@RobinDebrassio-vx6fl
1. It's 100% all of their fault. Not 50/50. All of them 100.
2. She's part of the rapists, dude. She left to give herself an alibi.
I absolutely believe it was a set up. Even an idiot wouldn't leave a 14 year old alone with adults that were harassing her all night. Maya knew these men were criminals, she knew they were gang affiliated, she brought them there; Lucy's attack was Maya's fault.
I’d get Maya tested for possibly being a socio or psychopath.
Probably a psychopath bc sociopaths are made via abuse/trauma and according to OP she did her best to raise the kids right BUT psychopaths are born; meaning no matter how well u try to raise them they always end up like maya
Something tells me maya set her sister up.
Hence the unwillingness to give names,perhaps its time for op to change the will and go full nc with maya,just in case.
The fact that the sister literally went on to tell everyone about what happened to her sister after her sister asked her not to, and then said she had to get over it disregarding the fact that she is still a CHILD. Maya is likely a sociopath or psychopath. Like, legit, this seems like she’s lacking empathy for her sister.
Not only was it 100% her fault she tried to play the victim to her pysch and TOLD 27 people in a group chat for attention. Disgusting, disown and disengage. Maya did all these horrible things to be popular and get attention, don't give her any ever again. She needs a pysch that can actually help her become a better person instead of feeding into her bs.
Damn Lucy was 14??? And Maya left her alone with a bunch of men whom SHE invited?! Oh hell no. Lash out a Maya, she needs to be held accountable.
Bears are safer than Maya.
Isn't it against the law to identify a victim to the public
Especially a minor
Couldn’t they charge her on that if so with a new crime she can get.iron window resort time for?
@@jeffwilliams9866 id just let her know that, so she never does it again. I couldn't prosecute my own daughter. The school is the main problem now, no way she should set foot in that school with everyone knowing. Needs to move away to put the previous life as far out of mind as possible. Keep the other daughter at arms length a little bit, she clearly doesn't get it at all
It might be hard to prove? Like with saying it to therapist to talk about the situation, it is in "closed space" and supposed to stay here. She could say that those were "close friends that deserved to know and wouldn't tell anyone" and if it was told to others they just deducted what happened because Lucy just stopped showing to school or something. If it were a public post on social media then maybe, but this might not count by law... depending on the lawyer at least
The parent may not fully blame Maya for everything....BUT I DO. Said events would never have happened if she had done as she was told or even been more responsible. Her actions were what led to it happenening thus she is fully responsible for it all.
She all but gift wrapped her sister for a known rapist. Even assuming it wasn't deliberate, and I'm not convinced it wasn't, she is still largely to blame for all of it, and in the aftermath, she just tries to twist the whole thing to her benefit.
There's been another update in the form of an r/AITAH post, where she asked if she'd be the asshole if she withheld Maya's portion of the inheritance from her father (which was being kept until she was 18). She didn't spell out what Maya did but the top comments read her post history and were in favor of Maya not getting a cent.
Full disclosure as someone in the field, the counselor is going to be more on the side of whomever the designated client is, that's kind of the job and a bit of what makes therapy hard when they bring someone else in because who is the client in this situation. Depending on how long therapy has been going on, it may be too early also to even challenge the client on some things even if we want to because its still building rapport and we want to make sure it doesn't cause the client to want to terminate the therapeutic relationship. Often earlier on we want to see the world from their view and provide tools and techniques to help cope with internal stressors before we start asking questions that could see if there are alternative views. A kind of stabilize their footing and ensure they have the means to begin exploring more raw areas.
Thank you for the insight on how counselors work. I was a livid with that counselor in this story, but it makes more sense after reading your comment.
I see the point, but just asking, WHO is the client when the parents are paying? Like, on one hand the kid is having therapy and might decide to end it (but depending on age might be a bit forced by parents to go anyway), but if you insult parents that are paying, they will probably terminate anyway? I know Maya is old enough to be client herself, but just wondering if she were younger and dependent on mom, will counselor still do the same?
@@ritaerror7829 The client would be the person attending the sessions, the main times this can get challenging to navigate is kinda like an unofficial couples counseling, and sometimes official couples and family counseling where it may be challenging. I'm not actively practicing so it has been a while since I've brushed up on the state laws & ACA code of ethics. IIRC even if the parents are paying and the client is minor, confidentiality still reigns supreme unless the client is a threat to themselves, or others. A counselor will contact a guardian in cases where the client cannot give consent due to age or otherwise if that client is in danger / being harmed or is one to others.
The counselor is likely going to be on the side of the client as it is the nature of the relationship to be an assistant in navigating the journey with the client. The reactions of the counselor are going to likely vary based on the counselors theoretical foundation. Not all counselors are the same, not just in personality but approach. You've probably heard of CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, but that's really just one of many theoretical approaches to therapy and not all are applicable to the same clients, or even the same presenting problems. The way they handle a client is likely going to be different than say how one handles a client who has a foundation in Freudian approach. Since I do not know the hypothetical counselor in this story, I cannot tell you what her approach is, we're lacking significant information for me to even begin to distinguish that.
Regardless though, even if the client cannot terminate the relationship, I.E being forced to go by a parent, It's a getting further with honey than vinegar approach in a very loose way of putting it. Do you think the child, or, young adult in this case, is going to open up if I start asking questions out of the gate that challenge their held inner world views? Do you think if the client is in denial that they're likely to feel comfortable and trust me if I come on too early? There are some approaches like solution focused therapy that do have means of going at this, but it also is going to be as effective as the clients willingness to change. The client here, Maya, is clearly resistant, and that could be from a plethora of reasons, once more I don't know her, I'm not counseling her, so its all second hand information. The counselor was likely just as surprised on some information because we don't have it all either, we rely on our clients being truthful with us, but sometimes the truth is hard to come out, hence, rapport, rapport, rapport.
If you are curious on a lot of the ethical rules of therapy and maybe some of it will answer some other questions that we have to follow, google ACA code of ethics 2014. The first result from counseling is a PDF file that lists the ethical ruleset that counselors in America have to follow, not including any additional state legislature. Breaches of these ethical boundaries can result in a review that could end in punishments of requiring more training, education, probation, suspension and permanent loss of right to practice based on severity. My apologies If I missed anything or went in a weird direction, it's 5 am for me hahaha
@@ritaerror7829Client means patient in this context. My insurance may pay for my therapy but I’m still the client. The point stands if a parent is paying. But I think the therapist effed up. They should be on the clients side on one on one meetings especially in early meetings but more neutral when a session is used as family therapy. Usually a therapist is always aware that they hear their clients pov and other have their own pov. Also they usually should be aware that clients may lie for whatever reason. I can’t imagine how the therapist could have ever agreed that OP wasn’t fair to maya, regardless off maya left out in her sessions. A quick rundown of what happened with just the essentials and leaving out details that make her look even worse should have been more than enough for the therapist to see that maya effed up majorly.
With rundown I mean:
Maya: I threw a party and invited a lot of people while mom was at work work and I watched my sis 14f. After a while I left and she was r during my absence.
Therapist: How do you feel about what happened?
maya: I miss my friend.
Therapist: ???
Shit excuse
Maya is a monster.
Anyone who ever says it's not the job of an older sibling to look after the younger sibling in the absence of parents is just sh1t. Whenever there is a household, all family members automatically have to assume roles based on situations, and that's how family works & moves forward. I am 40 now, and I remember that both my parents worked and needed to leave us alone (with no sitter affordability) for a couple of hours a few times a week. I was tasked with watching my younger sister, i remeber us of when i was in 6th or 7th grade so 12-13, and she was 4 year yonger than me. This is the normal family duty of the elder sibling. Family is a support-based social structure, which is why it has value.
There's two possibilities here. ONE: Maya invited GROWN MEN over while her mom was out, encouraged the harassment of her sister all night long, then abandoned her sister to be assaulted, and she's merely a horrifically and willfully neglectful sister. Or TWO: it was a setup, and when Lucy wouldn't participate willingly, Maya arranged for her unwilling participation, and she's an accomplice to literal gang members. Which of these scenarios is forgivable?
NEITHER
@@RobinDebrassio-vx6fl Precisely!
@@thefairybug40 damn right
op as a mom must not be aware that maya did drugs... this kind of behaviour is someone who's already doing drugs, that she saw her criminal friends as people cool to hang out with... the whole story, I agree with op reaction to her daughter maya, but then as a mom I think she missed the part when her daughter maya has become the druggie or criminal gang to do all that stuff without remorse
She probably tried to trust her kid, and "everyone as a teen is rebelious". Though even if she knew, what was she supposed to do? Whenever Maya was responsible for Lucy or not, she would still throw party when mom was out. She was already in therapy, and it seemingly didn't help. With her attitude, neither talks or grounding would help her. And just knowing wouldn't be enough to send her... somewhere, dunno, camp? To parents? It could even backfire at OP
@@ritaerror7829 I'm saying, the period of time when Maya was still under her "jurisdiction" as a "mother", teen age, or whatever age, she must have missed that time when her own daughter grow up and befriend the wrong people and became druggie... people don't change overnight...if Maya is her daughter too, she would have watch Maya grow just like how she is protective over Lucy and would have known when her daughter changed to a different person - I'm saying the period of time before all this happens, did she always put Maya as baby sitter to Lucy?
@@radziahradzi probably the son was a babysitter before he moved out.
And my point is, what should a mother do when seeing those signs? Yeah, they don't change overnight, but again, what should be done?
@@ritaerror7829 mother should spend more time with them, before that happens. That you say big bro could be babysitting her before he left, probably shows the mom didn't parent her kids, letting the kids babysit themselves, that's one of the reasons that lead to wrong selection of friends
or pay her suppliers with something other than cash.she set her own s,ster as payment
I never think i would say this before, but i hope maya gets the same medicine/karma what her sister went through just to know the pain of it. And this time she would be alone without any support she could lean.
Maya put her in a dangerous situation 18 is old enough to know better,then left her in a house with strangers. I couldn't get over this. Send her away before you do something you'll regret.
Maya would be disowned. She clearly can't be helped. She 100% set her sister up. She's a psychopath/sociopath .
The fact that the sister in law has been more helpful than the older sister tells you all you need to know
Maya didn't even call the cops herself. That tells me everything I need to know about her.
How dare people defend maya, what the actual fuck is wrong with reddit sometimes
The fact that you can state that you don’t hate your daughter shows your love as a mother; it is NOT wrong to love your child even when they do wrong, but you are also not wrong to in your feelings toward Maya. If she had done as she had been asked, this situation would never have happened. She may not have been the cause, but she was the catalyst.
Yeah totally Maya's fault none of it would have happened had she not thrown a party. I would have disowned her.
Maya needs to go to jail. There is only one cause to this situation. That is Maya, who cares how ignorant she was. That is no excuse. Maya shouldn't ever be in charge of or have children ever.
and to think court only gave her weeks after she indirectly commited rape and sexual assault (and maybe even attempted murder tons of people die from rape).
@@MOST-CONFIDENT My comment got deleted. So umm something that is crazy going down over the past few weeks in the THORP stuff have you seen it online? Metokur covered it.
Fathers day dads of the internet edition. You should check it out. That first story has clips and stuff it's crazy.
Seems I can't mention the his name without the comments auto banning it on RUclipss end.
Watch that and let your jaw drop.
My children's safety comes first. If one of my daughters is a threat to my family, she's not welcome to stay at my home.
Get over Maya’s actions. I would not be able to. She betrayed her family and continues to do so. Send her away.
The thing is, whether or not she was trying to set up her sister to get her assaulted is completely irrelevant, because she had made multiple purposeful choices to allow this to happen:
1. She threw a party despite not being allowed
2. She didnt invite any of her sister's friends
3. She invited several grown adult men who she fully knew had gang associations
4. She left her alone with the gang members without giving a heads up, and
5. She didnt have anyone watch over her while she was gone.
She had several opportunities to prevent this from happening. She could have abstained from throwing a party. She could have not invited people she fully knew were gang members. She could have taken her sister with her when going outside. She has permanently ruined her sister's life by being ignorant, irresponsible, and (speculatively) downright malicious. Not only that, but the fact that she had the gall to ask why she should apologize makes her evidently repulsive and unforgivable. If i was the parent, i quite frankly would have fought for the harshest punishment she could have gotten in court and any love i had for her would have disappeared into thin air the moment she told people her sister got assaulted without her sister agreeing to people being told about it.
What kind of human is Maya? No remorse for her sister and affiliated with Gang?!
She definitely set her up. She let a a group of men harass her sister, while knowing about ALL the charges on them. And she wasn't even sorry about it?
This story is infuriating! I don’t blame the mum for feeling that way. I didn’t do anywhere near that, and when my mum told me to leave and I asked “where will I go? She’s just respond with- that’s not my problem. You helped her get lawyers, therapist, told her to stay with her grandparents so you knew she’d be safe. The therapist making you feel bad for protecting the child clearly left with trauma, is... truly unforgivable.
If that happened to my kid and the other knew she'd be on the street and disowned permanently
Maya's unrepenant attitude and taking it so easy is most likely because she was mentally prepared for it to happen, she doesn't find it a big deal maybe because she got some benefit from those men.
No eighteen year old in her sane mind won't know that she cannot leave four grown men in their house with a 14 year old and go to McDonalds when there are so many food delivery options available these days.
We can assume that she was not involved but Maya went out to buy food and not even one of her so called "friends" volunteered to tag along with her and from what OP has told Maya has a queen bee attitude but she just left without throwing any tantrum to those men?
Holy crap at the end when she described finding her poor daughter in the closet... just hearing that made me feel sick, I can't even imagine the pain and rage you feel in that moment as a mother
Will people with serious issues like R please stop going to "therapists"?! They are NOT psychiatrists, have less schooling and training, and are basically no different than any one on social media in your DMs.The reason this therapist was so manipulated by Maya is because she has never had the training and experience a psychiatrist or psychologist has. Neither one of those would have fallen for Maya's pity party BS. They would have diagnosed her very obvious disorder (could be sociopath, could be bipolar, could be extreme narcissism, or any number of things a therapist cannot diagnose or treat). Therapists have done more harm for patients than ever in recent years. All good insurances pay for mental help with a real professional psychiatrist and psychologist. If yours doesn't, get a new one.
The commenter who said it wasnt mayas fault is insane. She left her sister unsupervised with a bunch of grown men. AND THE THERAPIST OMFG WHAT?-
therapist don't need much training or any hard testing to become one any idiot from the street can be a therapist.
Maya screwed up big time. The bigger problem is the fact that she does not appreciate the severity of her actions - only that she is being targeted for all the things against her. The therapist is only going by what what Maya said and chances are she painted a rose-tinited version of the incident. But until she understands her role and the consequences of her actions, there can never be forgiveness for her. The fact that she was protecting the identity of her friends was the breaking point. I am surprised that this alone did not get her kicked out of the house for good. She chose her friends over her family. That is unacceptable.
Maya not only knew, she set it up. 100%. The mother needs to disown her and get a restraining order immediately
I think I realized that Maya was disgusting when she said "she is no different than any other women that get R4ped" that is so out of place and awful.
Someone fire Maya's therapist, but then again Maya clearly explained her part in the best way she could to make herself look like a victim
I definitely think she set her sister up. 1. The guys were in a gang. 2. She kept trying to set sister with one of these older guys. “Get her out of her shell” my a$$. To me she either was just wanting to get her “annoying” sister away so she could do other things (or boys) or get her with that boy to please him. 3. She left the house to go to get McDonald’s? Why not order it or get someone who doesn’t live at that house to make a food run? Why would you want a bunch of ppl in your house when you’re not there and the only one living there that is there is your minor sister?!? I think she wanted one of the guys to like her or be in this gang in someway. Lucy was her way in so she was trying to get her to him easier. I think she told them she was going to McDonald’s and which room was Lucy’s. The fact that she wouldn’t tell them the names. DNA from the attack helped more than the DNA between family. I hope OP kicks Maya out of their lives for good.
open your eyes OP Maya set lucy up .
Maya is 90% responsible for orchistrating this those men were just happy to enjoy this opportunity provided to them.
poor Lucy 😢😢😢 and Maya totally set her up!!!!
Maya should be punished for the rest of her life. Don’t even let her be alone with Lucy for one day. She’s done enough damage. I would probably yell and argue with my own daughter if she did that to her sister and played victim. Get the other daughter in question to babysit Lucy or get a babysitter. This is a horrible situation to be in. I hope you and your daughters can heal and recover from this disgusting and tragic incident.
If I had a daughter like Maya, I would never be able to be near her out of the fear that I would seriously hurt her. How absolutely fucking disgusting. She paints herself as the victim when she's partially the cause her younger sister got SA'd??? Absolutely not. I don't think I could ever consider someone like that as my child anymore.
I don't blame this mom for being so upset with her older child until the older child can truly understand what her sister has gone through and take responsibility for her own actions the mother needs to keep her away from the younger child.
Maya probably wrote the 1st comment: both said she wasn't the one at fault for what 4 men did to her sister despite OP clearly said she was paid to look after her sister. Now, if you wanna argue that setting Lucy up is part of the job, well... it exposes who you really are
as long as Maya lives, Lucy will never be safe
Maya should get disowned
I knew a girl this happened to. Way back when I was in HS in the mid-to-late 90s, my best friend decided to throw a party while her mother was away. While my friend was drunk off her rocker, and canoodling with her boyfriend, a guy ended up going into her 13-year-old little sister's room and SAing her.
I was fighting with my friend over some petty matter at the time, which is the only reason I wasn't at the party. I didn't find out until 2 weeks later, after my friend and I had made up, and she told me that they hadn't called the police because she was afraid of getting into trouble for throwing a party. She convinced her little sister to just keep quiet about it all, and she did.
I was flabbergasted by that, especially when she told me how scared she'd been because her sister was bleeding heavily for days afterwards.
I ended up calling DSS anonymously that same night and reporting it, but our system is so broken down here that I'd be surprised if they ever even showed up. I reported it under the guise of being a teacher who overheard some students talking about it, but I never heard anything from my friend about them visiting. She would've grilled me like crazy had they actually made an appearance, as she was the type who would've cut me off if she believed I'd broken her trust like that.
I normally wouldn't have, but her sister was like family to me. I wanted her to get medical help and I wanted the sub-human waste of flesh who hurt her behind bars. Sadly, neither happened.
I was just 16 at the time, and there wasn't an internet around to help guide me back then. I wish I had done more, because that girl never did get over what was done to her, but at the time, I just didn't know what I could do. I knew my parents wouldn't care, so I didn't tell them, and don't even get me started on the police in this area back then.
I didn't even knew the guy's name, as my friend had told everyone involved to never tell me.
She was afraid I'd "make things worse".
Yeah, that was the point. I wanted to make things A LOT worse for that PoS. Of course, given my temperament at that age it was probably best I didn't know, as I wasn't trying to locate his dumb ass in order to call the cops on him.
No doubt in my mind this was a set up. Who tries to put their 14 year old sister with a 18 year old man. She witnessed how uncomfortable Lucy was and made the conscious decision to leave her alone. She didn’t give names because she “gave” Lucy to them to join the gang. And im sure the hug was a thank you for getting her in. That’s why she didn’t show any remorse or apologize because she isn’t sorry. She’s 18 if she wants to do some heinous shit put her ass on the street where she belongs. I hope Maya gets the karma she deserves 10x over for using her sister to get into a gang. That’s beyond vile and I hope OP opens her eyes
Apparently Maya never checked on Lucy after getting back from her McDonald's 'run', that seems to cement the reality on top of all the other details that she cares nothing about her. It would be understandable if the mother disowns Maya but unfortunately Lucy will most likely take on the additional burden of believing she caused it. I hope Lucy can find the help she needs to heal and eventually thrive.
WTF was Maya thinking leaving her 14 year old sister with a 17 year old who was harassing her all night then leaving her with grown adults at a party!!!
Maya knew about these men, she knew they were already violent men with criminal records, and knew Lucy wasn't interested in the one she was trying to set her up with, but she still left her alone in that house with them. She is most definitely an accomplice. Also, that therapist needs to be reevaluated because no way in hell are they just brushing off what happened to Lucy as an "accident," unless Maya wasn't telling them the entire truth of what happened to her
Maya remaining alive in the first place is a danger to Lucy . Withholding her "friend's " name who is her sister's r@p!st?
So Maya is definitely a psycho and danger to others, specially her little sister.
And I understand not wanting to think that your daughter would set up her little sister to be SAed buuuuut there is plenty of red flags that indicate that Maya, almost surely, knew of the assault before it happened and did it to *purpousefully* harm Lucy. I would not be surprised if she did planned or gave the go ahead while in the party or that she had it planned before hand.
So let recap, she invited gang members (and there is no way did not knew this) to her mom's house, on a night she knew mom would not be there, then attempted to setup her sister with one of those thugs and left her alone with strangers and this criminals. Furthermore, when questioned she refused to give up names, she minimized and mocked the trauma of her sister, then revealed what happened to her against Lucy's wishes re-traumatizing her sister. And THEN, then, she has the audacity to play the victim.
not to mention I'm pretty sure that Maya only revealed what happened to Lucy because lucy herself was getting a semblance of normality already and that pissed her. I have no proof but neither doubts.
OP you're an awesome mother and godamn saint because I would tell Maya:
_From this point onwards I have one daughter. You're moving out, you will not take anything that you did not fully paid for, you will not contact us, you will not contact your grandparents, you will forget we ever existed as we will forget about you. I will call the police if you ever come near my one and only daughter or grandchildren if I ever have some_
_I truly wish that you never experienced what "hundreds of women" go through every day, I sincerely hope it never "becomes your whole personality" and, if you ever have children of your own, that you'll love them enough to not put them in harms way nor that you experience the anger, the impotence and the betrayal of what you, Maya, did to us. And the only thing I can recommend to lessen the chances of it happening is to avoid associating with obvious/known criminals_
It looks as if Maya actually eet this whole thing up. No remorse whatsoever for what her sister went through despite knowing what type of people she was inviting. Then proceeding to not be honest with the police. Yeh if i was you ill getva lawyer to see her involvement in this.
FOCUS: How could you leave your home while there are people inside it?? Never mind the rest of the story!! It's common knowledge that the host stays with their guests.
Honestly, Maya's actions, sociopathic personality, people she associated with, uncooperativeness after the fact, and lack of remorse, all screams intentional setup. As in, Maya wanted and actively worked towards Lucy getting SA'd. People underestimate just how evil and depraved teenagers can be, and Maya raises every red flag there is.
I heard stories about girls helping guys in situations like this cause the girl as a crush on one of the guys. So yeah, she's mad that her crush went to jail. And it was a set up.
I would have no shame to disown maya. None! Erase my name off that birth certificate
Omg! Maya may have actually set her sister up. She knew exactly what her friends were capable of. It will be hard but OP has to cut off her oldest daughter, the sociopath. I’m so very sorry for OP & Lucy.
Okay but being friends with someone that later rapes your sibling *can* be traumatic. I doubt that Maya would like to stay friends with any of these guys after what they did, I think it's more like, she's grieving over their image in her head. It's not that absurd, she probably feels disgusted and betrayed by them and there's nothing weird with that.
And yes, Maya is to blame for how she neglected Lucy. She seems pretty immature and greatly misled, plus of course what she said about Lucy was terrible, but damn, the whole situation surely isn't easy for her emotionally. It's completely valid that the mother's primary concern is Lucy's mental health, but it doesn't mean that Maya wasn't hurt in this or can't feel hurt about this.
Holy shit. Is Maya a psychopath? Her lack of emotion is terrifying.
EDIT: Whoop there is it.
DO NOT LET HER BACK IN LUCY'S LIFE
Whoever said that Maya isn't to be blamed, RUclips will not let me say what I have to say about that. Maya knew that these people were dangerous, and she left her in the house with them after knowing that she rejected someone who was pestering her for a kiss. And she KNOWS they have criminal charges.
The worst part to me was that disgusting comment she made saying essentially that other women experienced it too and "at least they aren't making it their whole personality." I would have disowned her at that point.
people who are siding with maya or trying to divert the blame by blaming the parenting are seriously disgusting
Like seriously stfu
She defo set lucy up probably to join the gang or for whatever reasons
It’s literally the most disgusting thing ever u can ever do to anyone let alone her little sister
She is psychotic and definitely is an accomplice in this assault
Op needs to disown her and some jail time might be good as well
I am so sorry for Lucy and op . Op definitely needs to kick maya out of their life
And yeah the therapist needs to to lose their license
I am just so disgusted by this story
FOUR MEN?? that poor girl that's terrible
The girl that says to just blame the men is that annoying person to talk to, she just hates men, that girl, caused everything she knew, she knew it all but didn't do anything she probably knew what they were going to her sister and that's why she left, I feel so sorry for the mother, and it's probably a good idea that the father doesn't know.
You just know if Maya was a brother that comment would be totally different
I think the part that bothered me the most was the explanation that Maya had been 'trying to put Lucy with this one guy'. Like...what does that mean? Does that mean she was saying 'hey, stand next to this guy instead of me for a while', does it mean she was trying to get Lucy to *talk* to this guy, or was she trying to get her *14 year old* sister to hook up with this guy? Like...maybe I'm more effected by this because I find the notion of sex at all disgusting, but the thought of Maya even *suggesting* a 14 year old be sexually active with *anyone* that 14 year old had not expressed enthusiastic interest in beforehand is stomach churning for me. I don't have enough details to make any actual calls on this, and luckily I don't have to, but I hope OP and Lucy are healing, and that Maya is in a situation that doesn't allow her to cause more harm, accidentally or otherwise.
I also hope that OP talked with that therapist that Maya was going to, explaining the actual facts of the case and the current home life, because if that person heard the same story we did about how this happened and was still calling it an 'accident', then that person should not be responsible for the mental health of vulnerable people. It seems likely to me that Maya simply doctored the story to make it sound like she had a lot less culpability for the situation that allowed this to happen. Its possible that she *does* feel bad but is reacting to that guilt by trying to minimize the events. A lot of people do that, will feel shame for something but talk themselves out of it by recontextualizing it as 'not actually that big a deal'. So there's a couple of ways this therapist could have heard a doctored story, but if they didn't, and they *knew* the real details of the night and still agree that Lucy was 'being dramatic' over an 'accident'? I feel like you should report that person somewhere, to some sort of governing body that checks in on whether or not medical professionals should loose their licenses. I've heard of a few terrible therapists who allow their personal agendas to infect what they tell people, and I've read stories of ruined families because of these people, so...if there's a way to get bad therapists out of the profession, it should happen.
i dislike this person, has a view on how a family needs to be and seems really not wanting it to be broken trying to find any reason to get maya back in the house, doenst want to talk to her oldest son even if its the biggest deal that they may have had, just because she again has a view on how newly wedded needs to be, i dont get really good vibes to where all this i going, lucy needs so much more care than what i´m seing displayed and an only mom more centrated in if she can have her daughter (maya) back, she said so much details of how likely this was a set up, she said such horrifics things and should be in jail, what op is trying to do is forgiving somethig she has no right in forgiving
This is the problem when you are a (probably loving) parent of a criminal. It was bad, and OP feels it with the whole "disliking" thing, but she can't just accept how her "own sweet kid" could do that.
Also with the son, she said Lucy was in hospital, so maybe she wanted her to be stable before sharing the news (not great if Lucy wouldn't make it, but also with how she was assulted by people probably his age she could think it wouldn't be the best for him to come), and then said she was going out with son's wife, so they did get to know and support Lucy
Everyone needs counseling.
I would have loved for my parents to punish my sister for what she did to me. Or even acknowledge what she did to me.
Make maya work at a grape crisis center, homeless shelter. Or other insightful job. R is something that doesn't go away. And have future reactions that maya will never see.
I assume maya acting out because of dad gone not something else. But she needs to get passed her issues or she has a long life of hurt in front of her. To this day my sister has not revealed what happened to her as a child. But mayas deliberate incompetence is causing significant harm to others.
Set her straight now. She should be with someone else. If her impulsiveness is leading to felonies who knows what else is next.
Yeah, Maya planned this.
Why would the daughter try and set up her 14 year old sister with a guy older than her?
that older sister is a psychopath no mormal person would react like that to little sister being SA-d most people would grab a knife.
Maya is a problem. Coincidentally, my older sister is also named Maya. She has caused problems for me, encouraged her friends to verbally harass me in our home, and still lies about who I am as an adult (who doesn’t interact with her). My parents knew Maya displayed all of this behavior and did nothing about it. Not even a, “don’t do that.” In short, good for that mom for trying to protect her family from Maya. I hope the mother here continues to protect her family and not soften or allow Maya back in her home before she’s done the work and has proven she is no longer intentionally hurtful.