I needed to see this I have an early Mustang II front end on my pro street car and a nasty radical bumpsteer problem. Anyone know a guy here in Washington State that knows their stuff about setting these front ends up? If so please reply. I live close to Olympia Wa and can drive either south or north of Olympia.
5 months and no reply, so…. One major cause of bump steer is a large distance between the centerline of the tire and an imaginary line drawn through the pivot points of the spindle to the ground. I won’t post a wall of text here, so search Huibert Mees & The Autopian. He’s an actual suspension engineer (worked on a Tesla design and also Ford’s GT40) and posted some very good understandable articles there. Also, might be worth asking at a cars & coffe where people take their old hot rod for alignment for something local. Best of luck!
I really appreciate you taking the time to teach me modern suspension design fundamentals. Ian please keep your Zephyr project hot and moving on your channel; I am eager to see you driving this car. You are terrific!
The increasing camber effect you are talking about happens if the control arms are the same length but the upper pivot point is not vertically aligned to the lower one or if the control arms are different lengths to each other. What you are trying to establish is a parallelogram. That means your upper and lower control arm should be parallel to each other to begin with and they should be the same distance from frame to hub mount. If the distance to the hub from their pivot point on the frame is the same length then as the suspension cycles they will travel through the same arc in relation to the frame.. The wheel if it starts out plumb will simply travel up and down and not camber in and out. It will however move marginally left and right in relation its distance from the frame. If your control arms are different lengths or they start out at different angles or the frame mounting points are not vertically aligned to each other that is when your wheel will camber in and out.
There are some graphic simulators online that show all this. Search for "suspension simulator". From what I've learned, you do in fact WANT the camber to change in a controlled fashion as I described in my other post. There is so much going on in a suspension system that it's difficult to grasp all the fine points without computer software and years of Engineering experience!
Castor also helps with self-straightening...Where after you turn, the spindles/wheels want to straighten up without the need for input from the driver...
Jamie is so patient. I was replacing pressed in wheel bearings today and I tried to show my wife how the press worked. She said she didn't care at all and eveything was like Chinese to her. 😂
I’m sorry My wife is not mechanical at all but she takes very good direction she help me build a 48 Chevrolet convertible and our 1950 Chevy pick up she loves the cars and she’s very good at taking directions we have a rule if I yell she quits
Great to see a car show on youTube doing multi projects all running coincidence with each other to stop any boredom on builders behalf or fans keep the great work going
Ian , as a 78 yr old carpenter, and builder, framing squares never go permanently OOS. All that’s needed is center punch, hammer, and a straight edge on on flat surface. Most squares between the heel and tongue have two small punch marks. Hitting either one will open or close the right angle…
Hi Ian, I am not a suspension engineer, so consider this another comment from the peanut gallery... My understanding of unequal-length A-arm suspension is that the camber increase when the suspension compresses is intentional. This is because when the car turns, the outside suspension is compressed and when the tire leans in at the top, it helps keep the tire's tread flat on the ground. In otherwords, it maintains a larger contact patch between the tire tread and the ground as the car leans. If this was not done, the inside of the tire tread would lift off of the ground and you would end up with major understeer.
You might want to check the top spring perch measurements. It should line up with the lower control arm spring location. It looks like it might be to far in towards the frame.
I love the way you explain how and why you are doing what you’re doing, it helps us understand what and why! Thanks for the insight! Jamie another banger of a show!
You can resquare the roofing square by laying it on a flat surface. To spread the angle apart you hit the inside of the corner angle with a hammer, or to close the angle you hit the external corner. No need to replace the roofing square. Check it each time by marking a square line off the bench edge, flip the squares leg to the other side of the line and see which way you need to adjust the square to. Hope this is a clear how to.
Ian. I learned a lot this evening I have built a few hot rods never had to get in to the front Suspension geometry Changed out the Wages under the Straight dropped axel to increase the camera Thank You
Mr. B. Here ! ☕️👀😎👍. Thank you Ian , you have help me prove that you are never too old to learn . A young man feels school would be done : LOL I toll him to watch you work on building the frame 👍👍🧰🔧⚒️🪛🍎✏️📓🎓📐
Think about having the drivers side camber set at o right side about 1 .5 degrees cuz the middle of the road is higher than the curb by six inches , plus you are there you might take the Ackerman out of the steering,, plus more castor takes the nerviness out of the handling at speed anyway just a thought,keep going😊
I really enjoy your work and your approach to what you do. You've inspired me to do a lot of things that I've never tried before. After all, "What could possibly go wrong"? Thanks!
Oooh! the math, gr8 effort, had to have a lay down after that, brilliant Ian, a lot of helpful info, little things that have a big effect, cause a good result, thanks cheers
Watching you work is always a tremendous learning experience. As you learn, you explain, making it enjoyable for those of us without the technical expertise to feel as though we could take on projects like this on our own. Sincere thanks. I'm always looking forward to the next installment...
Ian, the ball joint tapers have to be fully seated in the spindles. I saw you ream to fit tapers in one of your videos. Either "Little Jewell" 1.0 or the jeep.
Hi Ian and Jamie .Before you go to far with that frame stub you need to work out what the frame rake will be at normal driving ride height, then the lower arm should be set so that it is parallel to the road surface both fore and aft and cross ways . the upper arm should come straight out so as it goes through its normal range of driving movement it will swing through an arc equal both above and below the centre line giving minimal camber change , at the moment the pivot end of the upper arm needs to be raised so the centre line of the pivot end is level with the centre line of the ball joint . Then you can dial in your anti dive and castor from there. John K.
In order for your arms to be parallel, the bushings pivot centers top to bottom distance must be {near} equal to the ball joint pivot centers distance. Those extended ball joints are usefull when you have tall frame rails that spread your arms [top/bottom] apart. In your set up with the square tubing, those balljoints are throwing you off. If you dont want to swap the balljoints, raise the upper arm mounting the amount equal to both extensions.
The horseshoe caliper attachments are for GM brakes. I believe that some mustang II kits may have upper arms that are 5/8" more narrow, for certain applications. Thus so is the bottom bracket, it may help keep the tires inside the fenders. I'm putting an original stang II frontend on an A chassis, so top and bottom brackets are connected. I saw/read that the top hats should have 10° - 12° pitch for your "auntie" lol.
You can measure caster angle really easily on the MII suspension. Using the STOCK spindles, lay a protractor along the large machined circle faces where the original caliper bolts went through. With everything installed on the car, this will be actual caster angle. You're right, around 6 degrees is ok; BUT check the drop spindles for mechanical trail. Its a built in offset between the ball joints and the center of the spindle. If your drop spindles have trail built in, that 6deg of caster is going to make it really hard to steer.
Hi Ian, just a suggestion about the CAT cordless grinder. Before you start using the new one, remove the bolts that tend to loosen up, put some lock-tight on them and retighten them. That should help keep them from coming loose and wallowing out. Really enjoying the Zephyr project!!
Your discussions during the filming reminds me of Bruce on Drain Cleaning Australia on RUclips where keeps acknowledging you at the back… Love the thought process in deciding where each part should be .
i have no idea whast Ians talking about with front end setup and math versus physical movements but ive seen Ian so so much if he told me my car needed this id give unquestionable trust
Ian set it up like you are, once it's set, you'll have to fine tune it with an alignment. The upper control arms will get shims put under the mounting points to increase or decrease caster.
If you guys end up in the area, we have this event, I'm sure you would find interesting. You might even want to bring one of your vehicles. It's the Vintage Torque Fest, May 3&4 at the Dubuque County Fairgrounds, in northeastern Iowa.
I’m no suspension genius but maybe the spindle needs reamed so the upper ball joint can engage deeper? That would help get your an arms closer to parallel.
Hey guys, me again the old engineer. I know you want the car to look somewhat normal as far as wheel tilt in/out when it's slammed on the ground, it's a nice look...but for a drivable car you'll need a little camber for driving around. Here's why : If you're out driving and rounding a big sweeping curve unless the center of weight of the car is down at the center of the wheel (it won't be, after all the engine, car body and passengers are all higher up) then the car will slightly tip over to the outside of the turn. Unless you've welded the car to the axels without a suspension then the frame rail on the inside of the turn will rise up a smige higher than the frame rail on the outside of the curve so... with the tire slightly canted out with the tire pushed up into the fender, the tread will sit flatter to the paving and provide better grip. Imagine the body tilted way over in a turn but the tires are still situated straight up and down as it pertains to the frame rail, the outside edge of the tire would be the only part contacting the paving, loud screeching, rubber smoke and the chance that the tire will roll off of the steel wheel !!Yikes!! So car suspensions are designed with just enough wheel in-tilting at full load to handle the body roll from a hard turn in order to keep the tire's tread flat to the road surface and in contact with the road. Keep it up guys, you're doing pretty good without an engineering degree 👍
When I put a 3" dropped front axle in my Ford F 100 panel truck, I established the caster at 7 degrees using shims, and it's been OK, although the bump-steer is still a little too present.
@@TheMotorman80 54 is the best body style IMO. But I think mine might be a bit bigger inside. I had a 400+ hp 351 from another project, but decided I didn't want to make this truck fast, just useable cool looking and efficient, so I took the whole drivetrain except the rear axle out of my '87 Aerostar (2.3 4cyl + 5spd and put that on a custom cross-member and motor mounts, then I lowered the truck so it would be easy to get a couple motorcycles in and out. I did some suspension mods, sway bars and some Jeep urethane spring stabilizers which replace the hard rubber bump stops, and are taller so they are in contact with the leaf springs most of the time. It runs great and gets good mileage and surprisingly it only weighs 3300 lbs with a half tank of gas and a big box of tools in it. Lighter than a Ford Ranger PU. Sorry for the longwided reply, but you asked. Tell me about your's when you can.
@@dlux703 Very cool, I like different builds like that. Mine was my first car and being on a budget, I put a Plymouth Volare clip and a small block Chevy in it. I also c-notched the frame and 4 linked the rear end which is a narrowed Ford 9 inch. Most recently I cut the Volare front end out, rebuilt the frame and did a mustang ll front suspension. I guess it’s pro street style being very low and tubbed. Eventually I would like to pull the 355 Chevy out and do a Ford engine but it’s a great cruiser as is.
Ian and Jamie: love the tech/ content! Was wondering if shorter ball joints would make that top arm become more parallel to bottom? Keep up the great work!
Been a busy week, so I am a bit behind watching. The caliper mounts arewere common on IMCA/UMP style modifieds. I know older DirtWorks used a Chevelle frame, stock lower arm but a Dodge style ball joint, Tubular upper (also the Dodge screw-in ball joint), a Pinto/Mustang II spindle, Grenada rotors, and the fabbed mount for a GM Metric caliper. Later cars used GM Metric frames but many still did the Pinto/II spindles, but some used Metric spindles. Speedway Motors sells the brackets for 10" and 10½" rotors Parallel arms are not often used on street or race cars to gain caster to deal with tire and body roll to keep things so the most tire is on the road. Back in the early 90's, I raced a Mustang II in ministock. My cars were known to handle real well, but it was easy to do with that front end. I also did a lot for traction on the rear end where most just go with whats there or toss a bunch of drop block in it. I did things to the springs and angles. My ride height was set so the lower arms were as close to parallel to the ground as I could get them. Of course my upper arm settings would do you no good on the Zeph, other than give it a terminal pull to the left.
Indeed, the measurements of the arms, the stop axle, and the drum must be standard and accurate and require checking and repeating... because the simplest mistake... the car’s wheel alignment will be a failure... Good work 👍
I think the control arms and dogbone set the camber. Caster is cast into the spindle forging. Camber change when lowering or cornering is a result of the arms resultant arm lengths.
You need to take into account the ackerman angle too, requires the slight angling of the top suspension arm support to induce a default +ve caster into the geometry. Your set up will only allow to adjust caster on the lower arm (if at all) by shimming the space between the lower arm bushing and the releveant lower support bolt insert housing. .. be wary of the steering rod nub length on the spindle too, too short and your rack and pinion will have to move out a lot ('cause you can't pull it inwards) to keep that ackerman angle sufficiently wide to compensate for the lack of power steering. Awesome build nevertheless.
ONLY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT ALL THINGS MECHANICAL WOULD KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T. I LIKE WATCHING YOUR CREATIVITY, YOUR ARTISTRY, TAKING SOMETHING FROM NOTHING AND MAKING IT INTO SOMETHING WONDERFUL. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Awesome and love the way that Jamie not only wants to learn but is understanding and makes her own logical input suggestions as possibilities. Keep on Jamie. Sometimes a new brain can give a more viable solution and also love the way she also can think laterally outside the box. Love it all keep going. Thankyou.
Hi your anti dive angle also allows the wheel to move ever so slightly rearward as the wheel steps up over a bump in the road diminishing the violence of the road roughness.
I can’t believe that somebody has called you a lazy welder. There is nothing lazy about you. You didn’t use your usual phrase. Remember, it’s science people. LOL. Still love your videos bro. Another project that I cannot wait to see you finish. Because I have a feeling that this is going to be one. Awesome build when it’s finished. Please take care and blessings to both you and Mrs Ian from England.
The long form build content is the cookie, dont stress over cookies. Theres a lot of channels on YT that never follow the builds, and they are the worst, meaning they start a build and get 2 videos in and the project disappears and there on to something else and you never see it again. The first appearance of a build is the first bite, the last episode of a build is the whole cookie.. ❤❤❤
Does the lower single control arm on a early Mustang II have to be horizontal with the steering rod link coming out of the rack n pinion on both sides?
I needed to see this I have an early Mustang II front end on my pro street car and a nasty radical bumpsteer problem. Anyone know a guy here in Washington State that knows their stuff about setting these front ends up? If so please reply. I live close to Olympia Wa and can drive either south or north of Olympia.
5 months and no reply, so…. One major cause of bump steer is a large distance between the centerline of the tire and an imaginary line drawn through the pivot points of the spindle to the ground. I won’t post a wall of text here, so search Huibert Mees & The Autopian. He’s an actual suspension engineer (worked on a Tesla design and also Ford’s GT40) and posted some very good understandable articles there.
Also, might be worth asking at a cars & coffe where people take their old hot rod for alignment for something local. Best of luck!
I really appreciate you taking the time to teach me modern suspension design fundamentals. Ian please keep your Zephyr project hot and moving on your channel; I am eager to see you driving this car. You are terrific!
You two have no idea how much I appreciate these videos and how much time and effort that goes into them. Just keep on going . You'er doing great.
The increasing camber effect you are talking about happens if the control arms are the same length but the upper pivot point is not vertically aligned to the lower one or if the control arms are different lengths to each other. What you are trying to establish is a parallelogram. That means your upper and lower control arm should be parallel to each other to begin with and they should be the same distance from frame to hub mount. If the distance to the hub from their pivot point on the frame is the same length then as the suspension cycles they will travel through the same arc in relation to the frame.. The wheel if it starts out plumb will simply travel up and down and not camber in and out. It will however move marginally left and right in relation its distance from the frame. If your control arms are different lengths or they start out at different angles or the frame mounting points are not vertically aligned to each other that is when your wheel will camber in and out.
There are some graphic simulators online that show all this. Search for "suspension simulator". From what I've learned, you do in fact WANT the camber to change in a controlled fashion as I described in my other post. There is so much going on in a suspension system that it's difficult to grasp all the fine points without computer software and years of Engineering experience!
the upper control arms are always shorter. But I don't know why.
When u cut the back of the bracket u also added to that camber
Upper arm is considerably shorter than the lower. East to see how swing are will cause camber gain. Good for race car, not good for street.
Castor also helps with self-straightening...Where after you turn, the spindles/wheels want to straighten up without the need for input from the driver...
Jamie is so patient. I was replacing pressed in wheel bearings today and I tried to show my wife how the press worked. She said she didn't care at all and eveything was like Chinese to her. 😂
I’m sorry My wife is not mechanical at all but she takes very good direction she help me build a 48 Chevrolet convertible and our 1950 Chevy pick up she loves the cars and she’s very good at taking directions we have a rule if I yell she quits
Should have looked for the MADE IN CHINA tag
Great episode. I would not be patient enough for that. Have a good week. Marc from Australia 🇦🇺
Such a chilled explanation of something most technical. Very enjoyable, thanks for posting.
Great to see a car show on youTube doing multi projects all running coincidence with each other to stop any boredom on builders behalf or fans keep the great work going
Ian , as a 78 yr old carpenter, and builder, framing squares never go permanently OOS. All that’s needed is center punch, hammer, and a straight edge on on flat surface. Most squares between the heel and tongue have two small punch marks. Hitting either one will open or close the right angle…
Love seeing everyone commenting and interacting .
Hi Ian, I am not a suspension engineer, so consider this another comment from the peanut gallery... My understanding of unequal-length A-arm suspension is that the camber increase when the suspension compresses is intentional. This is because when the car turns, the outside suspension is compressed and when the tire leans in at the top, it helps keep the tire's tread flat on the ground. In otherwords, it maintains a larger contact patch between the tire tread and the ground as the car leans. If this was not done, the inside of the tire tread would lift off of the ground and you would end up with major understeer.
Thanks for the valuable front end geometry lesson Professor!
The A-Arms ain't parallel because the upper ball joint doesn't fit all the way into the spindle
Always interesting and captivating. Thanks for sharing with us.
I love the T-shirt Ian is wearing
This is truly my favorite RUclips show. Hi Jamie 😊
It's always interesting and interactive.
Glad you enjoy it!
You might want to check the top spring perch measurements. It should line up with the lower control arm spring location. It looks like it might be to far in towards the frame.
Thank you! Another day in rehab for me with another fabulous episode of 'FULL-CUSTOM-IAN'! (that's in the BIG stadium voice!) 👩🦳
I've been working on cars for 50 years and you really amaze me with your work but more so with your warped mind on ideas.
I love the way you explain how and why you are doing what you’re doing, it helps us understand what and why! Thanks for the insight! Jamie another banger of a show!
You can resquare the roofing square by laying it on a flat surface. To spread the angle apart you hit the inside of the corner angle with a hammer, or to close the angle you hit the external corner.
No need to replace the roofing square.
Check it each time by marking a square line off the bench edge, flip the squares leg to the other side of the line and see which way you need to adjust the square to.
Hope this is a clear how to.
Your show is refreshingly, mellow. You two, are great.
Another epic episode cheers Ian and Jamie 🇬🇧 UK watching 🙏
Love the show and the variety of projects you are working on. Also, Jamie you do an excellent job of videoing each show. Very smooth and detailed!
Thank you very much!
Ian. I learned a lot this evening I have built a few hot rods never had to get in to the front Suspension geometry
Changed out the Wages under the Straight dropped axel to increase the camera Thank You
Mr. B. Here ! ☕️👀😎👍. Thank you Ian , you have help me prove that you are never too old to learn . A young man feels school would be done : LOL I toll him to watch you work on building the frame 👍👍🧰🔧⚒️🪛🍎✏️📓🎓📐
Think about having the drivers side camber set at o right side about 1 .5 degrees cuz the middle of the road is higher than the curb by six inches , plus you are there you might take the Ackerman out of the steering,, plus more castor takes the nerviness out of the handling at speed anyway just a thought,keep going😊
Most mustang 2 kits came with 78-88 GM metric calipers from G-bodied cars-but offered both small and big bore calipers !!
By far, my favorite channel. You guys are great!
Wow, thanks!
Great tutorial, shows how much thought is entailed in doing it right
I really enjoy your work and your approach to what you do. You've inspired me to do a lot of things that I've never tried before. After all, "What could possibly go wrong"? Thanks!
The additional negative camber you get when lowing that low will actually HELP to tuck your tires into the wheel well.
Use a tapered reamer to get your ball joints down on the spindle, it will change your ride height.
He's such a goof! I love being able to watch you two!
I think that the 1.5" minimum dimension that you reference is the measurement from the top of the frame rail to the top of the "hat" as you called it
Very educational today.
Another great episode keep them coming 🤘👽👍
Oooh! the math, gr8 effort, had to have a lay down after that, brilliant Ian, a lot of helpful info, little things that have a big effect, cause a good result, thanks cheers
Watching you work is always a tremendous learning experience. As you learn, you explain, making it enjoyable for those of us without the technical expertise to feel as though we could take on projects like this on our own. Sincere thanks. I'm always looking forward to the next installment...
Ian, the ball joint tapers have to be fully seated in the spindles. I saw you ream to fit tapers in one of your videos. Either "Little Jewell" 1.0 or the jeep.
He doesn't have the rubber covers on.
Hi Ian and Jamie .Before you go to far with that frame stub you need to work out what the frame rake will be at normal driving ride height, then the lower arm should be set so that it is parallel to the road surface both fore and aft and cross ways . the upper arm should come straight out so as it goes through its normal range of driving movement it will swing through an arc equal both above and below the centre line giving minimal camber change , at the moment the pivot end of the upper arm needs to be raised so the centre line of the pivot end is level with the centre line of the ball joint . Then you can dial in your anti dive and castor from there. John K.
Love the inserted drawings graphics. Good job Jamie. The geometry stuff you know is SOO far over my head, I'm glad I don't have to rely on it.
In order for your arms to be parallel, the bushings pivot centers top to bottom distance must be {near} equal to the ball joint pivot centers distance. Those extended ball joints are usefull when you have tall frame rails that spread your arms [top/bottom] apart. In your set up with the square tubing, those balljoints are throwing you off. If you dont want to swap the balljoints, raise the upper arm mounting the amount equal to both extensions.
Great info right there on the front end options , cause and effect. Thanks for sharing !
As easy as 1-2-3. That's all I really understood...then I'm not a fabricator. Great video y'all.
The horseshoe caliper attachments are for GM brakes. I believe that some mustang II kits may have upper arms that are 5/8" more narrow, for certain applications.
Thus so is the bottom bracket, it
may help keep the tires inside the fenders. I'm putting an original stang II frontend on an A chassis, so top and bottom brackets are connected. I saw/read that the top hats should have 10° - 12° pitch for your "auntie" lol.
You can measure caster angle really easily on the MII suspension. Using the STOCK spindles, lay a protractor along the large machined circle faces where the original caliper bolts went through. With everything installed on the car, this will be actual caster angle. You're right, around 6 degrees is ok; BUT check the drop spindles for mechanical trail. Its a built in offset between the ball joints and the center of the spindle. If your drop spindles have trail built in, that 6deg of caster is going to make it really hard to steer.
Love your show .watched it for years.
Hi Ian, just a suggestion about the CAT cordless grinder. Before you start using the new one, remove the bolts that tend to loosen up, put some lock-tight on them and retighten them. That should help keep them from coming loose and wallowing out. Really enjoying the Zephyr project!!
Thanks for the tip! I will have to try that!
Your discussions during the filming reminds me of Bruce on Drain Cleaning Australia on RUclips where keeps acknowledging you at the back…
Love the thought process in deciding where each part should be .
Ian, Ian, Ian, Information overload, so good. Good one mate.👽😎🇦🇺
Thanks 👍
Good stuff 😊
i have no idea whast Ians talking about with front end setup and math versus physical movements but ive seen Ian so so much if he told me my car needed this id give unquestionable trust
Bolt pattern, Ford 4.5 GM 4.75 Both are 5 lug. I was told on Tang clip, cross member 3 degree tilt forward.
The Zeyphyr is so cool, i can see Jamie driving it down 1st ave with a huge LS 5.3L engine in it! 👍🇺🇸
Agree.
Another good one 👍👍
Ian set it up like you are, once it's set, you'll have to fine tune it with an alignment. The upper control arms will get shims put under the mounting points to increase or decrease caster.
Love watching your show
Thank you for sharing.🛸👽👍
Thanks for watching!
Very well done Ian and Jamie
If you guys end up in the area, we have this event, I'm sure you would find interesting. You might even want to bring one of your vehicles. It's the Vintage Torque Fest, May 3&4 at the Dubuque County Fairgrounds, in northeastern Iowa.
I learned a lot today thank you
I’m no suspension genius but maybe the spindle needs reamed so the upper ball joint can engage deeper? That would help get your an arms closer to parallel.
Hey guys, me again the old engineer. I know you want the car to look somewhat normal as far as wheel tilt in/out when it's slammed on the ground, it's a nice look...but for a drivable car you'll need a little camber for driving around. Here's why : If you're out driving and rounding a big sweeping curve unless the center of weight of the car is down at the center of the wheel (it won't be, after all the engine, car body and passengers are all higher up) then the car will slightly tip over to the outside of the turn. Unless you've welded the car to the axels without a suspension then the frame rail on the inside of the turn will rise up a smige higher than the frame rail on the outside of the curve so... with the tire slightly canted out with the tire pushed up into the fender, the tread will sit flatter to the paving and provide better grip. Imagine the body tilted way over in a turn but the tires are still situated straight up and down as it pertains to the frame rail, the outside edge of the tire would be the only part contacting the paving, loud screeching, rubber smoke and the chance that the tire will roll off of the steel wheel !!Yikes!! So car suspensions are designed with just enough wheel in-tilting at full load to handle the body roll from a hard turn in order to keep the tire's tread flat to the road surface and in contact with the road. Keep it up guys, you're doing pretty good without an engineering degree 👍
When I put a 3" dropped front axle in my Ford F 100 panel truck, I established the caster at 7 degrees using shims, and it's been OK, although the bump-steer is still a little too present.
What year is your panel truck? I have a F 100 panel truck too!👍🏻
@@TheMotorman80 Mine is a 1960, the last year they built them. How about your's?
@@dlux703 Nice, my buddy had a 1959. Mine is a 1954. What all have you done to yours?
@@TheMotorman80 54 is the best body style IMO. But I think mine might be a bit bigger inside. I had a 400+ hp 351 from another project, but decided I didn't want to make this truck fast, just useable cool looking and efficient, so I took the whole drivetrain except the rear axle out of my '87 Aerostar (2.3 4cyl + 5spd and put that on a custom cross-member and motor mounts, then I lowered the truck so it would be easy to get a couple motorcycles in and out. I did some suspension mods, sway bars and some Jeep urethane spring stabilizers which replace the hard rubber bump stops, and are taller so they are in contact with the leaf springs most of the time. It runs great and gets good mileage and surprisingly it only weighs 3300 lbs with a half tank of gas and a big box of tools in it. Lighter than a Ford Ranger PU. Sorry for the longwided reply, but you asked. Tell me about your's when you can.
@@dlux703 Very cool, I like different builds like that. Mine was my first car and being on a budget, I put a Plymouth Volare clip and a small block Chevy in it. I also c-notched the frame and 4 linked the rear end which is a narrowed Ford 9 inch. Most recently I cut the Volare front end out, rebuilt the frame and did a mustang ll front suspension. I guess it’s pro street style being very low and tubbed. Eventually I would like to pull the 355 Chevy out and do a Ford engine but it’s a great cruiser as is.
Thanks for the interesting video and sharing it Ian .
Glad you enjoyed it
Ian and Jamie: love the tech/ content! Was wondering if shorter ball joints would make that top arm become more parallel to bottom? Keep up the great work!
Well explained! Thanks again.
Love the rear measurements..ha ha ...great show.!!!
Thanks! 👍
Ready for this adventure. Thank you again for another video
Enjoy!
Been a busy week, so I am a bit behind watching. The caliper mounts arewere common on IMCA/UMP style modifieds. I know older DirtWorks used a Chevelle frame, stock lower arm but a Dodge style ball joint, Tubular upper (also the Dodge screw-in ball joint), a Pinto/Mustang II spindle, Grenada rotors, and the fabbed mount for a GM Metric caliper. Later cars used GM Metric frames but many still did the Pinto/II spindles, but some used Metric spindles. Speedway Motors sells the brackets for 10" and 10½" rotors
Parallel arms are not often used on street or race cars to gain caster to deal with tire and body roll to keep things so the most tire is on the road.
Back in the early 90's, I raced a Mustang II in ministock. My cars were known to handle real well, but it was easy to do with that front end. I also did a lot for traction on the rear end where most just go with whats there or toss a bunch of drop block in it. I did things to the springs and angles. My ride height was set so the lower arms were as close to parallel to the ground as I could get them. Of course my upper arm settings would do you no good on the Zeph, other than give it a terminal pull to the left.
Gave me mead acke excellent guys cheers 🥂 😊
Indeed, the measurements of the arms, the stop axle, and the drum must be standard and accurate and require checking and repeating... because the simplest mistake... the car’s wheel alignment will be a failure... Good work 👍
Well said!
That was a fun episode!
GM: is my guess check-out G-Body Camaro & S-10's for your Brake Pads. Awesome build a challenge no doubt.
I think the control arms and dogbone set the camber. Caster is cast into the spindle forging. Camber change when lowering or cornering is a result of the arms resultant arm lengths.
You need to take into account the ackerman angle too, requires the slight angling of the top suspension arm support to induce a default +ve caster into the geometry. Your set up will only allow to adjust caster on the lower arm (if at all) by shimming the space between the lower arm bushing and the releveant lower support bolt insert housing. .. be wary of the steering rod nub length on the spindle too, too short and your rack and pinion will have to move out a lot ('cause you can't pull it inwards) to keep that ackerman angle sufficiently wide to compensate for the lack of power steering. Awesome build nevertheless.
ONLY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT ALL THINGS MECHANICAL WOULD KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T. I LIKE WATCHING YOUR CREATIVITY, YOUR ARTISTRY, TAKING SOMETHING FROM NOTHING AND MAKING IT INTO SOMETHING WONDERFUL. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Awesome and love the way that Jamie not only wants to learn but is understanding and makes her own logical input suggestions as possibilities. Keep on Jamie. Sometimes a new brain can give a more viable solution and also love the way she also can think laterally outside the box. Love it all keep going. Thankyou.
So looking forward to you reaching 100K subscribers!
Front end looking good, just have to be sure the new frame rails are horizontal when in the car.
Thanks Teacher Ian!
Another great job on the video,
Good job, keep us engaged.
Hi your anti dive angle also allows the wheel to move ever so slightly rearward as the wheel steps up over a bump in the road diminishing the violence of the road roughness.
👽👽 just as we figured, Ian and Jamie added up another great show 👽👽
Interesting, i would extend those adjustment slots though.
So much to think about
I can’t believe that somebody has called you a lazy welder. There is nothing lazy about you. You didn’t use your usual phrase. Remember, it’s science people. LOL. Still love your videos bro. Another project that I cannot wait to see you finish. Because I have a feeling that this is going to be one. Awesome build when it’s finished. Please take care and blessings to both you and Mrs Ian from England.
That’s a lot of thinking,great video as usual Jamie
LOVE the math equations embedded in the video!!!!
Hey from northwest Missouri!
Hey Jamie would love the music credits love your selections
They are in the description of the video 😎🥰
Well done!
The long form build content is the cookie, dont stress over cookies.
Theres a lot of channels on YT that never follow the builds, and they are the worst, meaning they start a build and get 2 videos in and the project disappears and there on to something else and you never see it again. The first appearance of a build is the first bite, the last episode of a build is the whole cookie.. ❤❤❤
great ep lots to learn from on this one! great information shared~!😃
Hey guys the beauty of comments on RUclips? Even negative comments they help drive your program!!
Oh man, Professor Ian. You've got it cambered, castered and antidiving now. 🧐
you will need to use the matching shorter lower
control arms. the ball joints on the long ones are a problem, spacers??
Does the lower single control arm on a early Mustang II have to be horizontal with the steering rod link coming out of the rack n pinion on both sides?
Even I remembered you leaving the tape on the fender!