As an urban planner, I can confirm that cities are the mirror of the builder. Games fail to emulate social agents that can build and would influence the city "blocks" so the city materializes exclusive as the player perception of the world. A lot of people play towards maximum efficiency, like planning a factory on factorio, the devs too create mechanics that reinforce and direct players to that, simple because optimal is the natural way of things, every organism (including cities) in nature wants to be perfect, perfect in it's on ambient. More systems are needed to create "organic" (God I hate that term) cities, we need to emulate social agents and their desires, fighting against others agents and infighting between groups, history, spiritual, cultural, psychology of the masses...
I liked this, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree that many city-builders fall into the trap of number must go up. I recently acquired Manor Lords and I'm having a great time. The city-planning is done through the player but its so much more dynamic with plots being able to pretty much fit any size. There are plenty of buildings that fulfill the "square," building archetype but I can't believe how much fun I'm having playing on the lowest difficulty.
You should try Foundation. In that game the player doesn't directly place the residential homes and the roads, just designating the zoning rules and the NPC's create the layout themselves, also paths and roads are established naturally based on usage, villagers take the shortest route available (avoiding buildings and potential forbidden zones set up by the player) and over time the paths becomes more established with use. Of course, the player still controls the industry, the military, the bridges (very importantly) and can construct in detail some administrative budlings. And this will influence the residential areas via desirability, proximity to services and other things. It is much more casual than the Anno 1800 for example, much more about growing your village into a medieval city. Anno 1800 is still my favorite game, and you can play it for the sake of making things beautiful, more varied residential block layers and the player can simulate some kind of organic growth but there are no proper in-game incentives for this. Efficient planning is the established goal and is at odds with this.
Foundation (at least the demo for the 1.0 patch) is so poorly optimised, actually enjoyed playing it but didn't purchase it because of the instability, crashes etc.
"The "efficiency" route in Anno 1800 is a choice made by the player; there are other ways to play, just look on youtube, there are some spectacular city builds out there that don't rely on efficiency alone. The grid system you're using also reinforce the idea of unnatural; try a stamp made by 10x10 (very modular) and place some variation into the buildings you place inside, it will be a totally different city
Anno 1800 isn't really a true city builder, its an economy game with city building flavour. It focuses more on production efficiency, efficient trade routes, managing labors, dealing with fluctuating capitals, etc etc. Its literally like Victoria series, but u build ur own city & see the warships shoot each other. its more obvious when you play against really aggressive AI, as much as I wish its a more 19th city builder thing, its not, but it has its own charm. I feel like City Skylines & Soviet Republic fit City Building way more, since you actually deal with City Building problems instead or means of profit & production. Like, walkability, trafic jam, workplace accessibility, education accessibility, amenities accessibility, trains, airports, bus routes, bicycle routes, etc. Sure, there are some little economy thing tied to it but its not as overwhelming as Anno. and Soviet Republic one is genuinely have good faith on how Soviet Commieblocks works, which nobody in the west talks about & just purely trash on, so that's a 2nd history flavor on it. Manor Lords is also another true city building, though a different time period, and just like all Polish does to be accepted in society, it has to be developed by a single person & the progress for content is incredibly slow & it gets stale really fast, also there's isnt much in terms of building along the terrains in it too, well at least for me, even though i love the time setting.
Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic is possibly the game you are lookin for then....... game is crazy looking. its titled city builder but i not sure what i really label it as beyond a huge headache that i probably never play...... but its neat to see others play it.
Any minute now, an "urban design enthusiast" will barge in like the Kool-aid guy to give you a smug rant on how cities shouldn't be made to accommodate car traffic. Also expect a comparison with the Netherlands as well as an infantilising suggestion to go educate yourself with the "Not Just Bikes" RUclips channel
@@luckyluke5638 Ideal cities should have options for all traffic: cars, bikes, busses, trains. The problem with american cities is they often (not always) rely solely on cars and that creates terrible traffic (los angeles, houston). The problem is also that they destroyed many beautifull neighborhoods to put highways wich often wasnt necessairy at all. Obviously im not against cars, but im against car-only devellopment.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
As an urban planner, I can confirm that cities are the mirror of the builder. Games fail to emulate social agents that can build and would influence the city "blocks" so the city materializes exclusive as the player perception of the world.
A lot of people play towards maximum efficiency, like planning a factory on factorio, the devs too create mechanics that reinforce and direct players to that, simple because optimal is the natural way of things, every organism (including cities) in nature wants to be perfect, perfect in it's on ambient.
More systems are needed to create "organic" (God I hate that term) cities, we need to emulate social agents and their desires, fighting against others agents and infighting between groups, history, spiritual, cultural, psychology of the masses...
I liked this, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree that many city-builders fall into the trap of number must go up. I recently acquired Manor Lords and I'm having a great time. The city-planning is done through the player but its so much more dynamic with plots being able to pretty much fit any size. There are plenty of buildings that fulfill the "square," building archetype but I can't believe how much fun I'm having playing on the lowest difficulty.
I was actually thinking of buying manor lords! I'm glad people still have positive things to say about it
You should try Foundation. In that game the player doesn't directly place the residential homes and the roads, just designating the zoning rules and the NPC's create the layout themselves, also paths and roads are established naturally based on usage, villagers take the shortest route available (avoiding buildings and potential forbidden zones set up by the player) and over time the paths becomes more established with use. Of course, the player still controls the industry, the military, the bridges (very importantly) and can construct in detail some administrative budlings. And this will influence the residential areas via desirability, proximity to services and other things.
It is much more casual than the Anno 1800 for example, much more about growing your village into a medieval city.
Anno 1800 is still my favorite game, and you can play it for the sake of making things beautiful, more varied residential block layers and the player can simulate some kind of organic growth but there are no proper in-game incentives for this. Efficient planning is the established goal and is at odds with this.
Foundation (at least the demo for the 1.0 patch) is so poorly optimised, actually enjoyed playing it but didn't purchase it because of the instability, crashes etc.
"The "efficiency" route in Anno 1800 is a choice made by the player; there are other ways to play, just look on youtube, there are some spectacular city builds out there that don't rely on efficiency alone.
The grid system you're using also reinforce the idea of unnatural; try a stamp made by 10x10 (very modular) and place some variation into the buildings you place inside, it will be a totally different city
Anno 1800 isn't really a true city builder, its an economy game with city building flavour.
It focuses more on production efficiency, efficient trade routes, managing labors, dealing with fluctuating capitals, etc etc.
Its literally like Victoria series, but u build ur own city & see the warships shoot each other.
its more obvious when you play against really aggressive AI, as much as I wish its a more 19th city builder thing, its not, but it has its own charm.
I feel like City Skylines & Soviet Republic fit City Building way more, since you actually deal with City Building problems instead or means of profit & production.
Like, walkability, trafic jam, workplace accessibility, education accessibility, amenities accessibility, trains, airports, bus routes, bicycle routes, etc.
Sure, there are some little economy thing tied to it but its not as overwhelming as Anno.
and Soviet Republic one is genuinely have good faith on how Soviet Commieblocks works, which nobody in the west talks about & just purely trash on, so that's a 2nd history flavor on it.
Manor Lords is also another true city building, though a different time period, and just like all Polish does to be accepted in society, it has to be developed by a single person & the progress for content is incredibly slow & it gets stale really fast, also there's isnt much in terms of building along the terrains in it too, well at least for me, even though i love the time setting.
Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic is possibly the game you are lookin for then....... game is crazy looking. its titled city builder but i not sure what i really label it as beyond a huge headache that i probably never play...... but its neat to see others play it.
based game. one of the best city builders ever its unlike any other.
I love co-op anno 1800. Theres something about building up and decorating trelawney with the boys.
Drive through an unplanned large city and you will understand why we try not to do that =)
Any minute now, an "urban design enthusiast" will barge in like the Kool-aid guy to give you a smug rant on how cities shouldn't be made to accommodate car traffic. Also expect a comparison with the Netherlands as well as an infantilising suggestion to go educate yourself with the "Not Just Bikes" RUclips channel
@@luckyluke5638 what
@@luckyluke5638 I am also an engineer and land-use planning professional, so I'm definitely in my lane when I say traffic is important.
@@luckyluke5638 Ideal cities should have options for all traffic: cars, bikes, busses, trains. The problem with american cities is they often (not always) rely solely on cars and that creates terrible traffic (los angeles, houston). The problem is also that they destroyed many beautifull neighborhoods to put highways wich often wasnt necessairy at all. Obviously im not against cars, but im against car-only devellopment.
you vill live in suburbia and you vill LIKE IT
You should try timberborn. It feels a lot more organic to build cities in that game.
Memoriapolis addresses exactly the problems you mention I think
@Pethrenne I've heard of that one and it's closer but not quite what I'm talking about
play workers and resources
you didn't play anno long enough. the game will force you to build around very inefficient layouts (especially in the new world)
yeah i got 2k hours on the game and that never happens bud, clearly a skill issue
Yeah I'm not much into the genre either