24:30 boys talk for 20 minutes, say nothing. Grace comes in and "Shard is chunk of gods power. Dawnshard is chunk of gods will." Boom. Edit: She keeps doing it.
Change: Cultivation, Ruin, Cultivation, Invention Live: Preservation, Autonomy, Honor, Endowment Laugh: Whimsy, Ambition, ?? Love: Devotion, Mercy, Odium, Valor Honestly not the worst possible arrangement. Laugh is the hardest one to find shards for, Love actually makes sense
Just like warbreaker: 1º Intent: you imagine how it will work, what it wil do 2º Command: you give the order with a specific phrase. 3º Investiture: is given with the Command for it to wrok, that`s why the sleepless dont want her to bond with a spren, because she needs investiture to make it work
And, along those lines, I believe that the Shards are the Intent of Adonalsium, the Dawnshards are the Command of Adonalsium, and the entirety of the Spiritual Realm is the Investiture of Adonalsium. It also follows the pattern; Investiture was not split, so it consists of 1 big chunk, Command was split into four more parts than Investiture, so 4, and Intent was split into four more parts than Command, so 16.
Also, there’s a moment in RoW in which Kaladin tried to use a Reverse Lashing and realizes that it wasn’t enough to just think of what he wanted as an objective, but that he had to think specifically what he wanted the power to do. His intent was to get that done, the command was the actual “how” of it.
The Dawnshard novella is so exciting because it's like we've been staring at a half finished puzzle trying to figure out what the big picture is, and Branderson just handed us a piece with face on it but we have no idea where it goes
About the First Gem, I think it used to hold the Dawnshard, but once Hoid got it, he absorbed it and became the Dawnshard, rendering the Topaz useless. Hence his quote that he was named after a rock that “became completely worthless for my wearing it.”
@@edwardguest1404 I agree that is confirmed as of the Sunlit man (The only cannon confirmation of that statement) but my point is not that he is not one, it is that I would prefer it if he was not and never had been. It is now clear (As of this latest release) that is definitely did hold it. I still think it's a shame, would have preferred a different answer but that's the story and I am sure it will be an excellent one. He could have been immortal for many many reasons. In the Cosmere immortality is not exactly rare.
1:23:05 I disagree with Evgeni, you DO need power to swear oaths, and that power comes from the spren. You can have the right words (Command) and mean them (Intent), but if there is no spren to form the bond you don't become a Radiant.
Someone asked Brandon if one Dawnshard is still different from the rest after the events of the story. He said yes. So it being stored in a mural was not what was different. I think what is different is it has gained sapience/awareness. And I think it was used in the creation of Nightblood so it is the Dawnshard of Destroy but was given a more specific directive of destroy evil. It didn't work how they wanted. But now the sword has gained awareness and is becoming more sentient and drawing in more and more investiture so it can be self directed in how it goes about carrying out the command
if Nightblood is a dawnshard that will be such a brilliantly infuriating subversion - bc I heard the term dawnshard and was like oh ok like shardblade so a cool sword, maybe an honorblade. Then realized they were definitely not swords so if it comes full circle I'm gonna explode
I was going to say this made no sense due to timelines not matching. Then I remembered that the scouring was only a few hundred years ago . So you could be right but I think it is a fairly large reach. This is due to the lack of reference to some outside power during the awakening of night blood in warbreaker
@@elinorth7920 we don't know much about what went into making Nightblood. But Shardcast has gone on about it theorizing that something extra went into making it more powerful. Shard intervention or something. I think they talk about on one of the Nightblood Shardcasts
My theory: I think the dawnshards are safe Shard “containers” - and if there are 4 dawnshards, then each can hold / handle 4 shards of adonalsium each - possibly without “ascending” the dawnshard holder (at all). I think Hoid gave up his dawnshard because he wants/needs access to investiture from all 16 shards. Accessing the magic systems of all shards suits his purposes (whatever they may be). I think to re-assemble adonalsium (if that is even possible), you would need to unite all 4 dawnshards (each holding 4 shards of adonalsium each). Thats my best guess based on current information anyway.
What if the 4 are: Exist (from nothing came everything, all matter) Change (allowing all matter to have potential, positive, negative, and neutral, develope or regress) Time (giving all matter and change reference) Connection (giving all matter, change, and time some sort of representation in all three realms) Fun vid, keep up the good work!
I see a Command as purely being the button you press in order to actualise an Intent, whether "magical", in our eyes, or not. The Intent would then be less a specific plan to be carried out magically, but more of a desire for a certain effect. Like how a Windrunner's Intent in lashing something upwards is not literally "temporarily rewrite this item's spiritweb so that its Connection to the ground is nullified", but simply "lash this item upwards". So it is the Command, the purposeful mental effort, that carries out this Intent through the Nahel bond. The Commands that are possible for a person to give successfully are dependent on how invested/sentient they are (inanimate objects can do a lot less than normal people, who can do a lot less than magic users, etc.) as well as on the magic system they're bound by. I would then call a Dawnshard not literally being a Command, as Nikli puts it, but the embodiment of Adonalsium's original Command, which opens use of that Command type (usually only possible for Adonalsium itself) to anyone regardless of how invested/sentient they are. However, the "magic system" Rysn is currently bound by is effectively real-world physics, which will not allow for the Dawnshard to really do anything.
In listening to your conversation about the 4 dawnshards I'm leaning towards 3 being connected to the realms and an outlier. Think (cognitive realm) Live (physical realm) Connect (spiritual realm) Change (outlier)
I personally believe that the Dawnshard existed BEFORE Adonalsium did. Primal concepts/commands that Adonalsium found. Tools that Adonalsium used in order to channel his investiture into creation. Adonalsium is investiture, pure investiture and nothing else. Only once he obtained the Dawnshards did he posses the ability to have a purpose. The reason I believe this is because if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him? How does one destroy God, using tools that God created? Dawnshards are not possible to conceptualize. They are fundamental concepts that give all purpose to the universe. The name Dawnshard was simply given to them. This is my theory.
I think this as well. I think the Dawnshards were not created by Adonalsium, though I do agree with the other replys that if they are created they can still be used to "kill" it. But I did interpret the text to mean that they existed already. Like you said primal concepts.
"if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him?" Adonalsium was never destroyed. You even say that Adonalsium is investiture, and clearly all of the investiture still exists.
@@billie6547 Concepts cannot exist, without a conceptualizer. It seems that Adonalsium had the intent to create the material world, and imposed his will upon existence to make it happen. The Dawnshards are like a lens that focus/shape the intentions of Adonalsium into reality.
So I wanted stronger words and verb commands. So my theory was "Be", "Change", "Experience", and "believe". Be is enduement, preservation and dominion. Change is ruin and cultivation. Experience is Autonomy and odium. Believe is honor and devotion.
If those are the four Dawnshards, then I would sort the shards as: Be: Preservation, Dominion, Endowment, Autonomy Change: Ruin, Cultivation, Invention, +1 Experience: Odium, Devotion, Whimsy, +1 Believe: Honor, Valor, Mercy, Ambition These aren't necessarily perfect, and some of the Shards could fit in multiple categories
My analogy for Intent and Command: -an arrow, which represent the Archer Intent of harming is target -the bow, which is the Command, meaning the medium that enacts the intention.
Hey so just to add to Argent’s theory that the dawn shard is like storing breaths in an object: after Rysn receives the dawn shard and she is talking to Drlwan(?is that his name?) on the wandersail and she notes that the colors in the room are suddenly more vivid, like how breaths do. Just a thought, anyways, I love your podcast and I’m very excited for you guys to explain rhythm of war to me after I finish it
I think Ryan went though 2 stages that lead her to the Dawnshard. First, her actions in the Reshi isles identified her as a potential and Chiri-Chiri went with her. Then, she successfully embraced Change (accepting her disability - regrowth can't heal it). This made her viable for the Dawnshard which is why only she feels the mural.
So, if I understand it correctly, every Dawnshard is a primordial Command, and each of the four was used by Adonalsium to create the Cosmere. They were also used to _shatter_ Adonalsium, and each Intent is specific to something - IIRC, the Dawnshard in _Dawnshard_ was "Change". It's also been stated (I think by WOB) that the specific Intents of the Shards were not accidental, but were _influenced_ by something. The Aimia mural leads me to believe there's a connection here - that the Commands of the Dawnshards shaped the Intent of the Shards (instead of the normal other way around, where your Intent might influence your Command). For instance, Change would have resulted in the Shards Cultivation (Change by natural and encouraged growth), Ruin (Change by destruction and degradation), Invention (Change by the deliberate act of sentients), and maybe Endowment (Change by way of giving gifts). If we can discover similar through-lines of connection to Shardic Intent, and if this little pet theory I've been sitting on is correct, we might be able to deduce the Commands of the three currently unknown Dawnshards.
With regards to Intent and Command, I think while Awakening Nightblood, the Command to "Destroy evil" but without a well defined Intent (with understanding of a deity) makes Nightblood confused about what is evil and what he's supposed to destroy.
Reminds me of a primary concern about our own potential for the same thing with an Artificial Super Intelligence, not comprehending the commands given to an ASI could mirror the nightblood command to destroy evil. Actually it's almost exactly like that huh, I wonder whether this is what's going on with the lore in the series.
If Preservation would be under the “change” dawnshard, would Autonomy be under the theoretical “connect/bind” dawnshard that Grace brings up? Preservation is not changing. Is Autonomy not connecting?
I keep thinking of the dawnshard being the 4 ways to break adonalsium, each dawnshard breaks it & categorized it in half somehow (2^4=16). So each of the 16 shards fall into categories of splits broken by the different dawnshards what all of the splits are though is the hard point. Another way to say this each shard isn’t categorized into groups of 4 in 1 dawnshard, but instead more like a tree where each level of branch is a dawnshard breaking point.
My theory: Ok, so there should be four Dawnshards, the foundamental Commands/Words that created the universe, and everything in the Cosmere has to follow their will. According to the mural, it seems that every Dawnshard has 4 Shards related to it: I think their Intents are different ways to follow this command. For example, we saw the Dawnshard of CHANGE. There are 3 Shards related to change: Ruin, Cultivation, Preservation (to preserve something, you have to change something else, something get changed anyway). Their intents are different ways to CHANGE things. There should be one more. I strongly believe that another DS could be UNITY (or UNITE!). There are 3 known Shards that want to bring people together: Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. You can bind people together through oaths/paths/laws etc., through force, or through love. We still miss one in this group. (By the way, I think this DS is not only about relatonships between people, but is the law that keep the unverse together: all the forces like fundamental interactions of physics, ore the bond between the 3 Realms could be products of this big divine command) (I'm not a physicist, so I could be very wrong about this) Another possibile Dawshard could be LIVE (related to Endowment, Odium, maybe Ambition?).
I had the same idea, though I desagree about preservation because he is the polar opposite. I was trying to come up with 2 more shards that could relate to change. I came up with Innovation, empowering others to create/cause change. The other that I doubt much more but could work is Chaos (maybe an implementation of this could be Luck/Fouchen, forgive spelling), the idea of random or impartial change.
@@maxwelljohnson5221 I know it sounds counterintuitive, but trust me, it makes sense. I had the idea while I was reading Warbreaker the first time (Vasher reflects about how often preserving something means destroying something else). Think about this: if you are a drifter on a desert island, how do you survive? You have to build a shelter, you have to hunt animals, you have to burn wood to make a fire. To preserve yourself you have to destroy and to create. This is also a very common idea in eastern religions, particurarly in Induism: Creation, Preservation and Destruction are put together in the Trimurti. And there is one thing we know: Ruin and Preservation are two sides of the same coin. They stay together. Another way to intend Preservation is: "Ok, everything must change sooner or later, but for the moment this things won't change". Preservation could be about redirecting change. The illusion of not-changing things.
When the WOB says the weapon used to kill Adonalsium was "expended" it could just mean that the people holding the Dawnshards (which you'd call Dawnshards themselves) died in the process of the Shattering. And while the people died, the remnents (the 4 Commands) remained. This would imply the Dawnshards were different people than the 16 Vessels. which I don't know if we actually know for sure. And also maybe the one different Dawnshard is Hoid, who somehow survived being used in the Shattering due to the nature of the Command he held (survival or protection or w.e). He has since given it up, somewhere along the way.
I think that Intent is what you want to do, investiture is a power source, and the Command is what lets you use Investiture to achieve your Intent. How Commands work is different for each magic system, while Intent is basically the same ("this is what I want to happen"). So for Radiants, the Commands are the oaths. A Radiant can do lots of things with lots of Intents, but if they go against their oaths (like Kaladin in WoR) they lose access to the surges. In Awakening the Command is the spoken (or thought) bit, while the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In Allomancy the Command is the metal, and the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In AonDor the Command is the Aon and the Intent is... well you get the picture.
Be / Become / Relate / Express This allows for an internal/external and active (positive)/passive (negative) split Be: preservation, dominion, autonomy Become: cultivation, ruin, innovation Relate: mercy, devotion, honor Express: whimsy, odium, ambition
around 20:00 they talk about dawnshard being like breath which I sorta agree with, not only because of the things they said but also in the epilogue Rysn was describing a lot of the experiences that come with a heightening (tea tastes better, Colours are more vibrant to her etc) tho they might talk about that later in the podcast Edit: Also the way it's described is close to how breath is used, so you needed intent (similar to how you need to imagine properly what you want breath to do), a command (the verbal component of awakening is a command) and investiture (Nikli specifically askes Rysn not become a knights radiant, possibly because he thinks if she has investiture she could use the dawnshard?)
I think Grace had it mostly figured out lol. Y’all over complicating it for real. I think it’s something like: Command = the literal words or symbols that carry a specific meaning associated with an action (i.e. saying “fetch keys”, or writing an Aeon) Intent = what your will is behind that specific action = visualization The Dawnshards are literally the words Aldonalsium spoke to create the universe, and becoming one of the dawnshards means you know what his specific commands were. It’s kinda like how there were key words to control the lifeless in Warbreaker, and the same thing with Knights knowing the exact words to say at the right moment. It’s the words. However to be able to use those commands you have to have actual power to make into reality, which is why Rysn probably can’t destroy the whole universe. I’d wager that you need power/investiture to be able to use a Dawnshard, and have a specific Intention behind its use. Like you have to know what you can do with it in order to visualize it.
Weird theory, but the "adona" in Adonalsium might've evolved overtime linguistically into the "adoda" which forms the prefix of Adolin's name and means light. The mural is described as shards of light. The Dawnshards are the light/adjoining power released during the fracturing that that made the Shards.
Didn't that match the mural in Elantris in the room in the library leading to the perpedicularity on Sel? It similarly depicted an Elantrian falling through the blue disk with light on the other side.
Intent vs. Comand in awakening is spelled out very clearly in warbreaker when Vivena Is learning to awaken. “The Comand brought the life, but the intent - the instructions from her mind - brought focus and action.” So the Comand is the words and the intent is the visualisation
On command and intent, allow me to stray into an extended analogy to explain my thoughts: To make an internal combustion engine turn over and keep running, you need three things: air, spark, and fuel. Spark ignites fuel, air feeds the flames, boom, ignition. To make AWAKENING happen, you need three things: breath, command, and color. In my mind, breath is obviously the air that feeds the flame, color is the fuel, the substance burnt away without remnant, and the command is the spark, it’s the thing that actually starts the fire. Okay, cool. But what makes the spark happen in a car? Really, two things: power and the specifications of the spark plug to fit that engine. So you have two parts of the command in awakening, the power, or the verbalization, and the specification, or the intent. That intent, through that lens, feels like it has to include the visualization aspect. It feels like picturing the outcome would fall into the design of the spark plug, rather than in the power source being applied to it. In listening to you all discuss, it got me thinking so I wanted to write it out. It feels like it fits to me
I interpreted the mural with people falling into multiple perpendicularities as something that happened immediately after the Shattering. They each had a perpendicularity, as the Shards, and so used those.
Using the Dawnshards to shatter Adonalsium - using the words of God against God itself. I think it fits in incredibly neatly into the overarching theme (allegory) of all cosmere works: the nature of divinity-belief-worship.
Intent (or what happens when there's not enough) also shows with the creation of nighblood, how it was supposed to fight "evil" and can do that with great power but not really understand what evil is. And this could also hint at what happened on Ashyn: lot of power not enough complex intent - disaster.
Late to the party, but I'm shocked nobody mentioned Unity here. I don't have solid theory how it fits into this whole business, but I can't imagine it not being somehow connected to Dawnshards. The feeling of warmth, golden light, whispers pushing Dalinar to 'unite', the fact that Stormfather doesn't know about any of this... It seems too similar to what Rysn experienced and how only she was able to perceive these things while Cord was totally unaware. Also, slightly different topic, but what about Ishar? Seems like a solid candidate for someone who at least used Dawnshard in the past. Also, also :D I may sound a little whiny in the text, so big THANK YOU for this episode. It was great.
Do we have a confirmation that Adonalsium was somewhat invested in Yolen? because for me, it wouldn't make sense that the ultimate God of the Universe would be invested in a planet. That raises the question that haunts me: Did the use of the four Dawnshards need a part of Adonalsium (from the physical and cognitive realm, not the spiritual) to be located around Yolen? or it was as simple as to use the commands in the right way, without having to play around with those concepts?
The 4 commands make me think of the 4 ways you can classify an action for computer databases. It's acronym is CRUD. Create, Read, Update, and Delete. We could change the words to something that fits a little better. Create, Think, Change, and Annihilate. Just a fun theory.
I made the buckets based on how similar they are to each other and then name a potential dawnshard for each. My buckets for shards are: Change: Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation Feel/Think(?): Odium, Devotion Bind/Control(?): Dominion, Autonomy Act/Do(?): Ambition, Honor, Endowment I am not totally sold on these because of the fourth category. I can totally see the ones in the last "bucket" fit the other categories. I can see Honor and/or Ambition fitting next to Autonomy and Dominion. Endowment could fit next to Devotion. Idk where we would fit the "wisdom" and/or "survival" (probably in act) shards.
Dawnshard: Intent vs Command Command is the verb, Intent is the adverb. And the Dawnshard is the repository of adverbs, giving you access to more specific and powerful adverbs based on your level of investiture. EDIT: For (a simple) example: Get key quietly presumes not being heard but only implies not being seen; get key stealthily presume being quiet and no seen. Higher level of investiture allows you to select a more precise and powerful intent (or to stay within this vernacular, a greater vocabulary).
I think Rysn was able to Change what another wanted. What they needed. Because she was able to convince Nikli to change how they protected the Dawnshard
For Intent, it seems primarily a safeguard and the nature of work. It is the nature of minds to wander, and many of these wandering thoughts are destructive or extreme. The Intent for something to happen means that you are truly trying to accomplish something, and provides context for the object to understand your command.
Strikes me that the Dawnshards are adverbs and adjectives to the shards. A catalyst to help enhance the power of the gods. So a boy can be just a boy or he can be a handsome boy, an aggressive boy, a sad boy etc. Rysn in her current state is the descriptor but not the subject. More than a normal person but not regrow your arm special. The mural was invested to find a worthy vessel that Chiri Chiri could vouch for. My guess is a bondsmith has to tap into the power to bond her powers to someone else’s to enhance. Also, since all of the shards are infinity the Dawnshard is the edge any would need for an advantage.
Have you read Harry Potter? There’s a moment when Harry tries to torture an enemy with the Cruciatus curse. However, he can’t because he doesn’t REALLY wants to hurt her that bad, he doesn’t have it in him. So the curse (Crucio!) would be the command, whereas the willingness to hurt the other person would be the intent. I see this as a similar thing in the Cosmere.
Fundamentally, I think there is a leap to suppose that the Shards are somehow grouped into a specific quadrant of the Dawnshard. If we are to suppose they are grouped as such, I would consider Dawnshards being specific commands and the Shards being specific Intents of Aldonasium.
What if this shard is the command of Cultivation separates from the power and that is why Cultivation has been able to operate and plan without too much interference from the power?
I thought it was very interesting that in Tress, Hoid notes that they said "this is for your own good" at the shattering. Definitely relevant to the feelings that Adonalsium expresses here.
A few things, it feels like the shards are adonalseum's intents, and dawn shards are adonalseum's commands With that in mind, if this is the dawn shard of change, or the command for this is "change" you could "change with honor", "change with Odium", "change with autonomy" Etc... So intention is how you want to accomplish the goal, where as command is what you want to come out of the intent, both useless without the other, both needing to be tuned, and trained With that in mind where as gods intents ask appear to be nouns I predict the dawn shards will have names of verbs
I think the four Dawnshards were enough to create the principles of the Cosmere, and what the 16 people that shattered Adonalsium did, was to create a weapon that concentrated all the intention of them towards the god, so they could use the will of god against him.
I think Surgebinding is like a magical cnc machine you are given access to use. Intent is the concept you wish to fabricate, the Command would be like the trigger for that effect. Investiture is the fuel that powers the the Surgebinding.
My possibly crack theory is that before the shattering the dawn shards were a single command “be”, which adonalsium used to create everything then spit from its self, becoming the dawnshard, the first shard, which 20 people together used to shatter adonalsium, and splitting it into the 4 dawnshards of modern cosmere in the process. I say 20 people because the 16 vessels plus one for each dawnshard (including hoid)
Let me drop my hot take in support of Ian's: Dawnshard isn't Investiture at all, they are explicitly Commands. And that's why Nikkli say Rysn had to agree to never bond a Spren. Because if she does bond one, she will get investiture she needs to ACTIVATE AND USE the Command/Dawnshard. Taking from Dresden Files, a Dawnshard is more akin to a Mantle.
And the command is just the action, the one verb, in this example it is CHANGE and the intent is how and what are we changing, which would be the visualization. At least that's how I see it
Someone help me relate command and intent to mistborn. When you burn the metal that is command and what you want it to do is intent? Or what about Elend consuming the bead of leraisium? Is that the command or the intent? He was barely even conscious.
I would say that the command is the burning of the metal. As most of the time before it becomes instinctual your commanding the investiture to flow through you by burning the metal. And the intent would be to preserve as we know from Brandon, that is why Allomancy is of preservation. The intent of Allomancy is to preserve yourself through the magic, and the command is burning the metals to reach preservations investiture
I would say Intent is you wanting to choose to burn the metal, and the "Command" is the metal itself. Tyler, you're not 100% accurate in how you are quoting that Allomancy being of Preservation WoB. (I should know; I got that one.) I wouldn't say magic systems have "intent." I'll talk about all of this in an Intent video in a bit. -Eric
17th Shard okay I see what your saying Intent is more a personalized aspect in using investiture. Where it doesn’t directly apply to the magic system in the way Connection or Identity would. Is the metal the command because it directs how the investiture is to be used. Like how an awaking command directs the usage of the breath. So each metal is a type of command for each type of different allomatic power. I really like that idea. Thank you for responding!
On commands and language, I think that people need to use spoken commands is because it Connects them to all the people who speak that language strengthening the intent of their command.
Makes the most sense is the painting is what happened when they went into the spirit realm broke him into 4 mind parts and then broke those into 16 physical parts.
I like "Survive" as one of the commands, rather than "Protect". If I'm trying to think of 4 core "ideas/instincts" you want to build into all of creation. "Change" - the ability to grow, evolve, adapt. "Survive" - The instincts to find food, to flee, to fight, to not just lie down and starve to death. Maybe the desire to procreate falls here too. Uhmmm. Those 2 are as far as I got. As for Command verse Intent, I pretty much just agree with Argent. Command is nothing but words, or an order. "Fetch Keys" is just words. I don't think "Intent" is the "how do you want me to go about this" though like you suggested. I think Intent is more of having an understanding of what it means to fetch keys. So if you had the right level of intent and understanding, and gave the Command to find something, the awakened object would be able to go around the world searching for this object. Similarly, you'd need understanding of the universe to make changes on a large scale, like you said. Can't change a planet in orbit without an understanding of what orbit is, where the planet currently is, where you want it to be, what does it mean to move it...etc. So I like the idea that Rysn can't do any of this without access to Investiture. If she had Investiture, she could Command Change in things that she has enough of an understanding of, and an understanding of what it is she wants to do. But you'd need the expanded mind/understanding of a Diety (or Shard) to fully make use of such a Command
I think survive is too specific. I like "Persist" That seems better to me and survive still falls under the umbrella of persist, protection and preservation.
Do we know who were the Dawnshards (possibly one was Hoid) when Adonalsium was killed? Did they change a Dawnshard for a shard? If not, we are looking for (possibly) 4 people present in the shattering that didn't take a shard but were willing to kill Adonalsium.
Who says you can't hold both. I figure Odium had one at one point. That would explain how he was able to fight and kill two other Shards at once over on Sel. It would also explain why he's having trouble this time if Honor had the Unity Dawnshard and killing Honor weakened Odium enough that he had to pursue the long game strategy with the desolations.
The mural depictions of the people going into portals, perhaps it is depicting the original shard holders at the Shattering. It is unknown how the Shards originally manifest, perhaps they create a perpendicularly since they are newly formed from Adonalsium; the portals leading to the Shards through the Spiritual Realm. Perhaps even the portals are summoned as part of the process of the Shattering. On its walls they found strange murals. People with hands forward, falling through what appeared to be portals, emerging into . . . light? "People" in this case doesn't necessarily mean many, it could mean one per portal. I'd bet if Rysn bothered to count the portals, there would be 16.
Like David Eddings... The Will and the Word. I see it like this. The Intent is the individual's understanding of what they want to happen. In other words the goal or end result desired. Part of this is the capacity to know and understand what all is involved. Increased mental capacity allows for increased complexity and accuracy of Intent. The Command is the application of the intent or the realization of the intent. It can be verbal, physical, or of your powerful enough a thought can be enough to apply or bring to pass the Intent.
My take on the Intent/Command discussion is this....imagine a line of code - the code itself is the intent, the visualisation is knowing what that code will become and the the command is the "enter" button to get it going. So in a sense, Ian was on the right path about the visualisation is the "bridging" between the two, or being a type of translator of the Intent.
Here is my absolute hottest take: Nikli says that the most powerful FORMS of surgebinding require a command and an intent. We know that he uses surgebinding to mean any kind of magic. Assuming that intent is an inherent part of investiture (odium has has hatred as an inherent part of that his investiture, and the same for each shard), what if Nikli means that the magic systems themselves all were given the intent by the shard. Honor had a specific intent when creating his magic system, and now the investiture on Roshar has some amount of his intent as part of it. This is similar to how connection is part of all the investiture on Roshar.
Watching this in 2022, finaly read Dawnshard (no audiobook and my time schedule is sooo busy) and watching Argent sain "Rayse is Odium" and started laughin so hard :-D
Something is missing from the conversation about command and intent. In the scene where Szeth becomes Preservation and Ruin, he begins to transform the planet in a way the emperor couldn’t, because he had so much understanding on the eco system due his coppermind. Something about that scene feels closer to the text about demands on a level no one could manage.
Command = trigger that activates the magic (I.e. words, actions, eating metal etc) Intent = meaning/method of choosing the effect caused by the trigger
How does aluminum fit in with the dawnshards? Maybe the dawnshards were originally 1 force and it shattered into 4 during the shattering of adonalsium. And maybe aluminum ties in some how given its ability to resist investiture.
I was thinking that for each level of Radiant oath, it involves a CHANGE. And this change isnt a trivial change - it is a complete change in the self and soul of the Radiant. As you were discussing, for each Radiant, they have to experientially go through a change in order to understand how each oath would bring meaning to who they are. (Like we see Kaladin struggle so much to really bring change in his own thinking about who is he and who is meant to protect). In other words, as Grace said, the CHANGE is impacted at the level of spiritual identity. I was thinking this ties back to the dawnshards being a kind of command which isnt just about words (though I think they are important) and even visualization (again, tjhat is important, because remember how the Radiants actually take on the physical form of who they imagine/visualize themselves to be), but I think we have to understand this spiritual level of the Dawnshard Command itself. I think that aptly captures the vastness and depth of what a dawnshard Command can be like. But as a mortal its difficult for us to imagine this vastness, which is why we've all been trying to discuss over and over how a command might be different from an intent. Great discussion though!
Also, I think visualization is definitely the command, but it is a part of it, and not the whole. I think Intent is more to do with identity and command more to do with change. Although so far we only know of a dawnshard that is the command of change, so maybe we'll rethink this more when we come to know of other dawnshards.
Only partway through the video, but the repetition of the word change just made me think of lift's boon from cultivation to "not change" which hasn't stopped her aging or physically changing. Is this some ploy from cultivation to perhaps make lift immune to the dawnshard's effects or something further into the future, since shards have the ability to perceive the future (possibilities at least)
I don't know if this theory came into existence before or after this episode, but there is a theory that, the 4 only words in all of the cosmere books that have been seen written in all caps, are the names of the Dawnshards. These 4 words are: (Spoilers for Dawnshard and Stormlight up to this point and The Bands of Mourning and Mistborn up to that point) CHANGE (when Rysn became Change) DESTROY (when Nightblood is drawn, this theory also states that Nightblood currently is that Dawnshard) SURVIVE (when Kelsier found the freezing southern Scadrians and helped them survive, it is theorised that he is that Dawnshard) UNITE (in the context of Dalinars visions, though I don't remember the exact scene; there is no good theory for this Dawnshards current whereabouts).
I like Grace's four things for Dawnshards, partly because it has a slight implication that Adonalsium had nothing to do with creating the universe, but probably just affects things in it as a deific being. Change would have Ruin (the most obvious), Cultivation (growth), and Endowment (giving, and I also got a very Endowment-y vibe from the dawnshard in the book). Bind would be Honor (oaths, being honor-bound, etc.), Preservation (binding is a more stasis-y one, and Preservation did bind Ruin to the Well), and Dominion (the power to bind others to your will in mundane contexts) Feel would be the emotion-related Shards: Devotion, Odium, Ambition. Think would obviously be more cerebral, like some of the names that have been bounced around for not-yet-met Shards (Wisdom, Prudence, Ingenuity, all of which might end up not being Shard intents at all). I don't know what the storms to put Autonomy in, though. Maybe Change, as in being able to change the course of your life, maybe Think, as in having your own thoughts. Hard to say. Then again, those unnamed Shards might end up changing that fourth Dawnshard to be something else instead. not sure what, because autonomy as a concept kind of defies being put into a box. Though that I guess supports the "Think" theory, so who knows? I'm kind of leaning toward filing Autonomy under Think. Edit: I'm not sure if the Shards need to be from the same bucket to fit together Harmony-style. I like the idea of Preservation under the Change one as a kind of "lack of this" type of thing. But Preservation to me feels very bind-y. On the other hand, putting Preservation under Change as the antithesis might mean having a non-that thing for the other categories, which is interesting. Odium might fit under Think in that case, AND Autonomy would have a place under Bind, or whatever its name would be. I personally like Bind.
OH! After some fiddling with Grace's idea of every Dawnshard bucket containing/producing the Shards with a positive, a negative, one that abstains from the thing, and one that influences others, or "gives" as I've now termed it, I have a really nice and clean one! It's not perfect, but with more Shards I think it might become that: Change: Cultivation (positive), Ruin (negative), Preservation (abstinent), and Endowment (giving) Bind: Honor (positive), Dominion (negative), Autonomy (abstinent), and Devotion (giving) Odium as the negative of Feel seems quite obvious, but him calling himself Passion makes me lean toward the possibility of him being the "giving" under Feel, or abstinent under Think (though Preservation was unable to change things, and I don't know about Autonomy but I think she might've been unable to "bind", whatever that means, and Odium obviously thinks a great deal). Ambition is a bit harder. Could fit under Feel as either positive or negative, or under Think as abstinent.
The passage describing what the DS is to me suggests that the commands predate Adonalsium. If they created all things then they created Adonalsium ... and so originate with the God Beyond. Ed: my 4 candidates Change (alteration) Will (thought, bind, includes laws of nature) Be (protect, stasis, create) Soul (feels/spirit/connection) Remember you're god here. Start with BE to make existence, define the existence via WILL, the process of Be shaped by Will is CHANGE, and the reason reality is more than an empty mechanical process is SOUL.
Or the command is pulling the trigger, the rest is just pointing at what you want to hit. And that gets more complex the more you dive into it. I think the complex nature come from the scale of thinking about the whole thing.
The split is 4 parts then 4 each right. So if there are 4 primary dawnshards, would 4 shards of adonalsium from one piece be similar to each other in some way. Eg : rune, cultivation are more similar to change than preservation or honor
I personally think the Command/Intent with regards to Visualization is similar to how magic works in the Eragon series so spoilers for that: Basically in Eragon you cast magic by saying the words but later on you discover that any thought can create magic but that is really dangerous for mortals and so the language was created to safeguard the magic. So if you want to create fire you say fire and intent it to appear in the fireplace. If you try do it by intent only you may create fire but set the land itself on fire or something. So the Visualization is the Intent. The command is required for Mortals. It safeguards what you’re trying to do because you don’t have the capacity. However if you reach Tenth Heightening or you’re a Deity you have a breadth of understanding where that Safeguard is no longer required.
I'll be honest, when I was reading there was a point where I just started laughing because I realized that you were going to have to admit that the Dawnshard was in the undersea cavern in Aimia!
Mural = Map to putting Adonalsium back together? I have always thought that Wit's endgoal and the endgoal of the series was for all of the god's spren and all the god's men to put Adonalsium back together again. The mural makes it sound like we need four parts of four parts each to come together first before putting these final four parts together into one whole. So, which parts go with which? Are Odium, Cultivation, Honor and one other part of the same fourth?
If this Dawnshard is only one Command of the four... I think the four are, in overly simple terms, akin to: -Exist -Cease -Change -Understand (this is the weakest though) My first thought was that each of the Shards somehow grouped together in groups of four based on the mural's division, each related to a different Command... but that doesn't make sense itself. The Command and Intent seem to be separate - the Shards are the Intents incarnate, where the Commands are, well, the Dawnshards. The Shards can issue commands of tehir own, but these are the most important. Wild Guess: each of the other Dawnshard murals will be different. This one shows a resigned or understanding Adonalsium, one who knew that even though he was ceasing to be, he was not being destroyed - his power would, per the Command, change into a new form. I wonder if the other plates will show other emotions.
So pre-Shattering there were only the Dawnshard and Adonalsium's power, and the original 16 used the Dawnshards to "undo Adonalsium"... I think each of the Four Commands were used to rip off pieces and shape the Intent of Adonalsium's power. To relate to what Grace said, if the Dawnshards are filters for Spiritual power then perhaps the first mural depicts the 16 filtering the Spiritual power of Adonalsium through the Dawnshards (using them to "undo Adonalsium"). So by this logic, each Command was used to filter or take 4 distinct pieces of Adonalsium's power. For example, I think this Dawnshard (the Change Dawnshard) was used to shape the Intent of at least three Shards we've seen (Preservation, Ruin and probably Cultivation) and one other. So Leras used this Command to take the power of Preservation and so on.... My hot take is that Dalinar is hearing the "Voice" of another Dawnshard (Unite them)...the Dawnshard associated with Unity. I think this Dawnshard will be used to Unite some of the Shards of Adonalsium. I think Honor, Odium (Passion), Devotion and Dominion are all Intents shaped by the same Command Also, do we think these 4 Commands correlate with the 4 fundamental forces. So the Change Dawnshard could be associated with the weak force, and a Unity Dawnshard could be related to the strong force...
24:30 boys talk for 20 minutes, say nothing. Grace comes in and "Shard is chunk of gods power. Dawnshard is chunk of gods will." Boom. Edit: She keeps doing it.
Y'all just image how crazy the Duskshards must be
Imagine how sparkly the Twilightshards must be.
The dawnshards are LIVE, LAUGH, LOVE, and uh CHANGE
Change: Cultivation, Ruin, Cultivation, Invention
Live: Preservation, Autonomy, Honor, Endowment
Laugh: Whimsy, Ambition, ??
Love: Devotion, Mercy, Odium, Valor
Honestly not the worst possible arrangement. Laugh is the hardest one to find shards for, Love actually makes sense
Just like warbreaker:
1º Intent: you imagine how it will work, what it wil do
2º Command: you give the order with a specific phrase.
3º Investiture: is given with the Command for it to wrok, that`s why the sleepless dont want her to bond with a spren, because she needs investiture to make it work
Sounds like sense
And, along those lines, I believe that the Shards are the Intent of Adonalsium, the Dawnshards are the Command of Adonalsium, and the entirety of the Spiritual Realm is the Investiture of Adonalsium. It also follows the pattern; Investiture was not split, so it consists of 1 big chunk, Command was split into four more parts than Investiture, so 4, and Intent was split into four more parts than Command, so 16.
Also, there’s a moment in RoW in which Kaladin tried to use a Reverse Lashing and realizes that it wasn’t enough to just think of what he wanted as an objective, but that he had to think specifically what he wanted the power to do.
His intent was to get that done, the command was the actual “how” of it.
Gator girl stunned Eric with her....Grace
lol
Grace is a glorious 5head. Dawnshards are cognitive will; radiant oaths are commands. Beautiful.
The Dawnshard novella is so exciting because it's like we've been staring at a half finished puzzle trying to figure out what the big picture is, and Branderson just handed us a piece with face on it but we have no idea where it goes
About the First Gem, I think it used to hold the Dawnshard, but once Hoid got it, he absorbed it and became the Dawnshard, rendering the Topaz useless. Hence his quote that he was named after a rock that “became completely worthless for my wearing it.”
Very nice. Though I would prefer it if he were not a Dawnshard and never had been.
@@Trisjack20we know he was a dawnshard. Hence his immortality
@@edwardguest1404 I agree that is confirmed as of the Sunlit man (The only cannon confirmation of that statement) but my point is not that he is not one, it is that I would prefer it if he was not and never had been. It is now clear (As of this latest release) that is definitely did hold it.
I still think it's a shame, would have preferred a different answer but that's the story and I am sure it will be an excellent one. He could have been immortal for many many reasons. In the Cosmere immortality is not exactly rare.
@@Trisjack20 it has been confirmed in WOB before however if you mean in text explicitly sure.
That’s fair if you don’t like it you don’t like it
@@edwardguest1404 Absolutely, not denying it is definitely the reality :) it clearly clearly is!
1:23:05 I disagree with Evgeni, you DO need power to swear oaths, and that power comes from the spren. You can have the right words (Command) and mean them (Intent), but if there is no spren to form the bond you don't become a Radiant.
Someone asked Brandon if one Dawnshard is still different from the rest after the events of the story. He said yes. So it being stored in a mural was not what was different. I think what is different is it has gained sapience/awareness. And I think it was used in the creation of Nightblood so it is the Dawnshard of Destroy but was given a more specific directive of destroy evil. It didn't work how they wanted. But now the sword has gained awareness and is becoming more sentient and drawing in more and more investiture so it can be self directed in how it goes about carrying out the command
if Nightblood is a dawnshard that will be such a brilliantly infuriating subversion - bc I heard the term dawnshard and was like oh ok like shardblade so a cool sword, maybe an honorblade. Then realized they were definitely not swords so if it comes full circle I'm gonna explode
I was going to say this made no sense due to timelines not matching. Then I remembered that the scouring was only a few hundred years ago . So you could be right but I think it is a fairly large reach. This is due to the lack of reference to some outside power during the awakening of night blood in warbreaker
@@elinorth7920 we don't know much about what went into making Nightblood. But Shardcast has gone on about it theorizing that something extra went into making it more powerful. Shard intervention or something. I think they talk about on one of the Nightblood Shardcasts
Well if you read closely, it's said that the mural showing the sun in 4 pieces, that they were "nearly" symmetrical.
Not nearly, mostly. Sorry for the additional comment, my RUclips freaks out if I try to respond to a response or edit my responses.
My theory: I think the dawnshards are safe Shard “containers” - and if there are 4 dawnshards, then each can hold / handle 4 shards of adonalsium each - possibly without “ascending” the dawnshard holder (at all).
I think Hoid gave up his dawnshard because he wants/needs access to investiture from all 16 shards. Accessing the magic systems of all shards suits his purposes (whatever they may be).
I think to re-assemble adonalsium (if that is even possible), you would need to unite all 4 dawnshards (each holding 4 shards of adonalsium each).
Thats my best guess based on current information anyway.
The Dawnshards are the Cosmere's Infinity Stones, but more religious(ish) than sci-fi(ish)
I don't think so. The 16 Shards are more like them, recepticals of power. The Dawnshards are something different again. My opinion only.
What if the 4 are:
Exist (from nothing came everything, all matter)
Change (allowing all matter to have potential, positive, negative, and neutral, develope or regress)
Time (giving all matter and change reference)
Connection (giving all matter, change, and time some sort of representation in all three realms)
Fun vid, keep up the good work!
Survive.
I see a Command as purely being the button you press in order to actualise an Intent, whether "magical", in our eyes, or not. The Intent would then be less a specific plan to be carried out magically, but more of a desire for a certain effect. Like how a Windrunner's Intent in lashing something upwards is not literally "temporarily rewrite this item's spiritweb so that its Connection to the ground is nullified", but simply "lash this item upwards". So it is the Command, the purposeful mental effort, that carries out this Intent through the Nahel bond. The Commands that are possible for a person to give successfully are dependent on how invested/sentient they are (inanimate objects can do a lot less than normal people, who can do a lot less than magic users, etc.) as well as on the magic system they're bound by. I would then call a Dawnshard not literally being a Command, as Nikli puts it, but the embodiment of Adonalsium's original Command, which opens use of that Command type (usually only possible for Adonalsium itself) to anyone regardless of how invested/sentient they are. However, the "magic system" Rysn is currently bound by is effectively real-world physics, which will not allow for the Dawnshard to really do anything.
In listening to your conversation about the 4 dawnshards I'm leaning towards 3 being connected to the realms and an outlier.
Think (cognitive realm)
Live (physical realm)
Connect (spiritual realm)
Change (outlier)
I personally believe that the Dawnshard existed BEFORE Adonalsium did. Primal concepts/commands that Adonalsium found. Tools that Adonalsium used in order to channel his investiture into creation.
Adonalsium is investiture, pure investiture and nothing else. Only once he obtained the Dawnshards did he posses the ability to have a purpose. The reason I believe this is because if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him? How does one destroy God, using tools that God created?
Dawnshards are not possible to conceptualize. They are fundamental concepts that give all purpose to the universe. The name Dawnshard was simply given to them.
This is my theory.
You can destroy a God if a God wants to be destroyed, especially given the role Intent plays in the Cosmere.
Also man has been doing this for years, take the handgun for instance! We created this with the sole purpose of destroying! X
I think this as well. I think the Dawnshards were not created by Adonalsium, though I do agree with the other replys that if they are created they can still be used to "kill" it. But I did interpret the text to mean that they existed already. Like you said primal concepts.
"if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him?"
Adonalsium was never destroyed. You even say that Adonalsium is investiture, and clearly all of the investiture still exists.
@@billie6547 Concepts cannot exist, without a conceptualizer. It seems that Adonalsium had the intent to create the material world, and imposed his will upon existence to make it happen. The Dawnshards are like a lens that focus/shape the intentions of Adonalsium into reality.
So I wanted stronger words and verb commands. So my theory was "Be", "Change", "Experience", and "believe". Be is enduement, preservation and dominion. Change is ruin and cultivation. Experience is Autonomy and odium. Believe is honor and devotion.
nice thought
If those are the four Dawnshards, then I would sort the shards as:
Be: Preservation, Dominion, Endowment, Autonomy
Change: Ruin, Cultivation, Invention, +1
Experience: Odium, Devotion, Whimsy, +1
Believe: Honor, Valor, Mercy, Ambition
These aren't necessarily perfect, and some of the Shards could fit in multiple categories
My analogy for Intent and Command:
-an arrow, which represent the Archer Intent of harming is target
-the bow, which is the Command, meaning the medium that enacts the intention.
Couldnt it also be that the Intent is to slay with the arrow & the arrow itself is the Command?
I love your thinking!
I'm currently rereading Rhythm of War with this in the background. I can feel my brain expanding by the minute.
Hey so just to add to Argent’s theory that the dawn shard is like storing breaths in an object: after Rysn receives the dawn shard and she is talking to Drlwan(?is that his name?) on the wandersail and she notes that the colors in the room are suddenly more vivid, like how breaths do. Just a thought, anyways, I love your podcast and I’m very excited for you guys to explain rhythm of war to me after I finish it
I think Ryan went though 2 stages that lead her to the Dawnshard. First, her actions in the Reshi isles identified her as a potential and Chiri-Chiri went with her. Then, she successfully embraced Change (accepting her disability - regrowth can't heal it). This made her viable for the Dawnshard which is why only she feels the mural.
OMG I WAS WAITING FOR THIS
So, if I understand it correctly, every Dawnshard is a primordial Command, and each of the four was used by Adonalsium to create the Cosmere. They were also used to _shatter_ Adonalsium, and each Intent is specific to something - IIRC, the Dawnshard in _Dawnshard_ was "Change". It's also been stated (I think by WOB) that the specific Intents of the Shards were not accidental, but were _influenced_ by something. The Aimia mural leads me to believe there's a connection here - that the Commands of the Dawnshards shaped the Intent of the Shards (instead of the normal other way around, where your Intent might influence your Command). For instance, Change would have resulted in the Shards Cultivation (Change by natural and encouraged growth), Ruin (Change by destruction and degradation), Invention (Change by the deliberate act of sentients), and maybe Endowment (Change by way of giving gifts). If we can discover similar through-lines of connection to Shardic Intent, and if this little pet theory I've been sitting on is correct, we might be able to deduce the Commands of the three currently unknown Dawnshards.
With regards to Intent and Command, I think while Awakening Nightblood, the Command to "Destroy evil" but without a well defined Intent (with understanding of a deity) makes Nightblood confused about what is evil and what he's supposed to destroy.
Reminds me of a primary concern about our own potential for the same thing with an Artificial Super Intelligence, not comprehending the commands given to an ASI could mirror the nightblood command to destroy evil. Actually it's almost exactly like that huh, I wonder whether this is what's going on with the lore in the series.
Argent with the best take. "Let there be Light" yes! That's what kind of Command we're talking about.
If Preservation would be under the “change” dawnshard, would Autonomy be under the theoretical “connect/bind” dawnshard that Grace brings up? Preservation is not changing. Is Autonomy not connecting?
I keep thinking of the dawnshard being the 4 ways to break adonalsium, each dawnshard breaks it & categorized it in half somehow (2^4=16). So each of the 16 shards fall into categories of splits broken by the different dawnshards what all of the splits are though is the hard point. Another way to say this each shard isn’t categorized into groups of 4 in 1 dawnshard, but instead more like a tree where each level of branch is a dawnshard breaking point.
My theory:
Ok, so there should be four Dawnshards, the foundamental Commands/Words that created the universe, and everything in the Cosmere has to follow their will.
According to the mural, it seems that every Dawnshard has 4 Shards related to it: I think their Intents are different ways to follow this command.
For example, we saw the Dawnshard of CHANGE. There are 3 Shards related to change: Ruin, Cultivation, Preservation (to preserve something, you have to change something else, something get changed anyway). Their intents are different ways to CHANGE things. There should be one more.
I strongly believe that another DS could be UNITY (or UNITE!). There are 3 known Shards that want to bring people together: Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. You can bind people together through oaths/paths/laws etc., through force, or through love. We still miss one in this group.
(By the way, I think this DS is not only about relatonships between people, but is the law that keep the unverse together: all the forces like fundamental interactions of physics, ore the bond between the 3 Realms could be products of this big divine command) (I'm not a physicist, so I could be very wrong about this)
Another possibile Dawshard could be LIVE (related to Endowment, Odium, maybe Ambition?).
I had the same idea, though I desagree about preservation because he is the polar opposite. I was trying to come up with 2 more shards that could relate to change. I came up with Innovation, empowering others to create/cause change. The other that I doubt much more but could work is Chaos (maybe an implementation of this could be Luck/Fouchen, forgive spelling), the idea of random or impartial change.
I like this
Ugh I just have a problem with preservation in change 🤦
Endowment could be in change as well, as to endow could be used as a synonym for give, or gift.
@@maxwelljohnson5221 I know it sounds counterintuitive, but trust me, it makes sense. I had the idea while I was reading Warbreaker the first time (Vasher reflects about how often preserving something means destroying something else).
Think about this: if you are a drifter on a desert island, how do you survive? You have to build a shelter, you have to hunt animals, you have to burn wood to make a fire. To preserve yourself you have to destroy and to create.
This is also a very common idea in eastern religions, particurarly in Induism: Creation, Preservation and Destruction are put together in the Trimurti.
And there is one thing we know: Ruin and Preservation are two sides of the same coin. They stay together.
Another way to intend Preservation is: "Ok, everything must change sooner or later, but for the moment this things won't change". Preservation could be about redirecting change. The illusion of not-changing things.
When the WOB says the weapon used to kill Adonalsium was "expended" it could just mean that the people holding the Dawnshards (which you'd call Dawnshards themselves) died in the process of the Shattering. And while the people died, the remnents (the 4 Commands) remained. This would imply the Dawnshards were different people than the 16 Vessels. which I don't know if we actually know for sure. And also maybe the one different Dawnshard is Hoid, who somehow survived being used in the Shattering due to the nature of the Command he held (survival or protection or w.e). He has since given it up, somewhere along the way.
That’s cool I didn’t think that hoid might be a/was a dawnshard
Perhaps a Command is 'what' you want to do, but Intent is 'why' you want to do it?
I guess the intent is the "what", what you imagine, and the command is the order, like on Warbreaker
Rereading Oathbringer, and I wonder if it's relevant that when Shallan is imitating a spren in Kholinar, she is imitating a Mandra.
I think that Intent is what you want to do, investiture is a power source, and the Command is what lets you use Investiture to achieve your Intent. How Commands work is different for each magic system, while Intent is basically the same ("this is what I want to happen").
So for Radiants, the Commands are the oaths. A Radiant can do lots of things with lots of Intents, but if they go against their oaths (like Kaladin in WoR) they lose access to the surges.
In Awakening the Command is the spoken (or thought) bit, while the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In Allomancy the Command is the metal, and the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In AonDor the Command is the Aon and the Intent is... well you get the picture.
Be / Become / Relate / Express
This allows for an internal/external and active (positive)/passive (negative) split
Be: preservation, dominion, autonomy
Become: cultivation, ruin, innovation
Relate: mercy, devotion, honor
Express: whimsy, odium, ambition
LOVED this episode, very interesting conversation about Intent and Command.
around 20:00 they talk about dawnshard being like breath which I sorta agree with, not only because of the things they said but also in the epilogue Rysn was describing a lot of the experiences that come with a heightening (tea tastes better, Colours are more vibrant to her etc) tho they might talk about that later in the podcast
Edit: Also the way it's described is close to how breath is used, so you needed intent (similar to how you need to imagine properly what you want breath to do), a command (the verbal component of awakening is a command) and investiture (Nikli specifically askes Rysn not become a knights radiant, possibly because he thinks if she has investiture she could use the dawnshard?)
YES! Give me all your pedantry!
I think Grace had it mostly figured out lol. Y’all over complicating it for real.
I think it’s something like:
Command = the literal words or symbols that carry a specific meaning associated with an action (i.e. saying “fetch keys”, or writing an Aeon)
Intent = what your will is behind that specific action = visualization
The Dawnshards are literally the words Aldonalsium spoke to create the universe, and becoming one of the dawnshards means you know what his specific commands were. It’s kinda like how there were key words to control the lifeless in Warbreaker, and the same thing with Knights knowing the exact words to say at the right moment. It’s the words.
However to be able to use those commands you have to have actual power to make into reality, which is why Rysn probably can’t destroy the whole universe. I’d wager that you need power/investiture to be able to use a Dawnshard, and have a specific Intention behind its use. Like you have to know what you can do with it in order to visualize it.
Weird theory, but the "adona" in Adonalsium might've evolved overtime linguistically into the "adoda" which forms the prefix of Adolin's name and means light.
The mural is described as shards of light.
The Dawnshards are the light/adjoining power released during the fracturing that that made the Shards.
Perhaps the first mural depicts a dawnshard-empowered use of the transportation surge, presumably used to come to Roshar.
Didn't that match the mural in Elantris in the room in the library leading to the perpedicularity on Sel? It similarly depicted an Elantrian falling through the blue disk with light on the other side.
Intent vs. Comand in awakening is spelled out very clearly in warbreaker when Vivena Is learning to awaken. “The Comand brought the life, but the intent - the instructions from her mind - brought focus and action.” So the Comand is the words and the intent is the visualisation
On command and intent, allow me to stray into an extended analogy to explain my thoughts:
To make an internal combustion engine turn over and keep running, you need three things: air, spark, and fuel. Spark ignites fuel, air feeds the flames, boom, ignition.
To make AWAKENING happen, you need three things: breath, command, and color. In my mind, breath is obviously the air that feeds the flame, color is the fuel, the substance burnt away without remnant, and the command is the spark, it’s the thing that actually starts the fire.
Okay, cool. But what makes the spark happen in a car? Really, two things: power and the specifications of the spark plug to fit that engine. So you have two parts of the command in awakening, the power, or the verbalization, and the specification, or the intent. That intent, through that lens, feels like it has to include the visualization aspect. It feels like picturing the outcome would fall into the design of the spark plug, rather than in the power source being applied to it.
In listening to you all discuss, it got me thinking so I wanted to write it out. It feels like it fits to me
Am I the only one who feels this whole Daenerys Targaryen realness towards Rysn?
EDIT: Also this reminds me of Rincewind and the eighth magic.
Heck yeah, can't wait for Rysn to fly on the back of Chiri Chiri yelling Drakaris to the fused
You guys are so cool. Nerd-gasm!
I interpreted the mural with people falling into multiple perpendicularities as something that happened immediately after the Shattering. They each had a perpendicularity, as the Shards, and so used those.
Using the Dawnshards to shatter Adonalsium - using the words of God against God itself. I think it fits in incredibly neatly into the overarching theme (allegory) of all cosmere works: the nature of divinity-belief-worship.
Intent (or what happens when there's not enough) also shows with the creation of nighblood, how it was supposed to fight "evil" and can do that with great power but not really understand what evil is. And this could also hint at what happened on Ashyn: lot of power not enough complex intent - disaster.
Late to the party, but I'm shocked nobody mentioned Unity here. I don't have solid theory how it fits into this whole business, but I can't imagine it not being somehow connected to Dawnshards. The feeling of warmth, golden light, whispers pushing Dalinar to 'unite', the fact that Stormfather doesn't know about any of this... It seems too similar to what Rysn experienced and how only she was able to perceive these things while Cord was totally unaware.
Also, slightly different topic, but what about Ishar? Seems like a solid candidate for someone who at least used Dawnshard in the past.
Also, also :D I may sound a little whiny in the text, so big THANK YOU for this episode. It was great.
Do we have a confirmation that Adonalsium was somewhat invested in Yolen? because for me, it wouldn't make sense that the ultimate God of the Universe would be invested in a planet. That raises the question that haunts me: Did the use of the four Dawnshards need a part of Adonalsium (from the physical and cognitive realm, not the spiritual) to be located around Yolen? or it was as simple as to use the commands in the right way, without having to play around with those concepts?
The 4 commands make me think of the 4 ways you can classify an action for computer databases. It's acronym is CRUD. Create, Read, Update, and Delete. We could change the words to something that fits a little better. Create, Think, Change, and Annihilate. Just a fun theory.
I made the buckets based on how similar they are to each other and then name a potential dawnshard for each. My buckets for shards are:
Change: Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation
Feel/Think(?): Odium, Devotion
Bind/Control(?): Dominion, Autonomy
Act/Do(?): Ambition, Honor, Endowment
I am not totally sold on these because of the fourth category. I can totally see the ones in the last "bucket" fit the other categories. I can see Honor and/or Ambition fitting next to Autonomy and Dominion. Endowment could fit next to Devotion.
Idk where we would fit the "wisdom" and/or "survival" (probably in act) shards.
This takes the cake for most pedantic shardcast
I see you have not seen our Half-Shard episode. -Eric
Dawnshard: Intent vs Command
Command is the verb, Intent is the adverb.
And the Dawnshard is the repository of adverbs, giving you access to more specific and powerful adverbs based on your level of investiture.
EDIT: For (a simple) example:
Get key quietly presumes not being heard but only implies not being seen; get key stealthily presume being quiet and no seen.
Higher level of investiture allows you to select a more precise and powerful intent (or to stay within this vernacular, a greater vocabulary).
I think Rysn was able to Change what another wanted. What they needed. Because she was able to convince Nikli to change how they protected the Dawnshard
Nice observation!!!
For Intent, it seems primarily a safeguard and the nature of work. It is the nature of minds to wander, and many of these wandering thoughts are destructive or extreme. The Intent for something to happen means that you are truly trying to accomplish something, and provides context for the object to understand your command.
Strikes me that the Dawnshards are adverbs and adjectives to the shards. A catalyst to help enhance the power of the gods. So a boy can be just a boy or he can be a handsome boy, an aggressive boy, a sad boy etc. Rysn in her current state is the descriptor but not the subject. More than a normal person but not regrow your arm special. The mural was invested to find a worthy vessel that Chiri Chiri could vouch for. My guess is a bondsmith has to tap into the power to bond her powers to someone else’s to enhance. Also, since all of the shards are infinity the Dawnshard is the edge any would need for an advantage.
Have you read Harry Potter? There’s a moment when Harry tries to torture an enemy with the Cruciatus curse. However, he can’t because he doesn’t REALLY wants to hurt her that bad, he doesn’t have it in him.
So the curse (Crucio!) would be the command, whereas the willingness to hurt the other person would be the intent.
I see this as a similar thing in the Cosmere.
I like this. -Eric
1:40:55 "sazed said these belonged together", i think this referenses that they are both a part of adonalsium
Fundamentally, I think there is a leap to suppose that the Shards are somehow grouped into a specific quadrant of the Dawnshard.
If we are to suppose they are grouped as such, I would consider Dawnshards being specific commands and the Shards being specific Intents of Aldonasium.
What if this shard is the command of Cultivation separates from the power and that is why Cultivation has been able to operate and plan without too much interference from the power?
I thought it was very interesting that in Tress, Hoid notes that they said "this is for your own good" at the shattering. Definitely relevant to the feelings that Adonalsium expresses here.
A few things,
it feels like the shards are adonalseum's intents, and dawn shards are adonalseum's commands
With that in mind, if this is the dawn shard of change, or the command for this is "change" you could "change with honor", "change with Odium", "change with autonomy"
Etc...
So intention is how you want to accomplish the goal, where as command is what you want to come out of the intent, both useless without the other, both needing to be tuned, and trained
With that in mind where as gods intents ask appear to be nouns I predict the dawn shards will have names of verbs
Very nice idea
There is a lot I also don’t hate in this.
I think the four Dawnshards were enough to create the principles of the Cosmere, and what the 16 people that shattered Adonalsium did, was to create a weapon that concentrated all the intention of them towards the god, so they could use the will of god against him.
I think the mural works like a coppermind, only , It isn't attached to an Identity
I think Surgebinding is like a magical cnc machine you are given access to use. Intent is the concept you wish to fabricate, the Command would be like the trigger for that effect. Investiture is the fuel that powers the the Surgebinding.
My possibly crack theory is that before the shattering the dawn shards were a single command “be”, which adonalsium used to create everything then spit from its self, becoming the dawnshard, the first shard, which 20 people together used to shatter adonalsium, and splitting it into the 4 dawnshards of modern cosmere in the process. I say 20 people because the 16 vessels plus one for each dawnshard (including hoid)
Let me drop my hot take in support of Ian's: Dawnshard isn't Investiture at all, they are explicitly Commands. And that's why Nikkli say Rysn had to agree to never bond a Spren. Because if she does bond one, she will get investiture she needs to ACTIVATE AND USE the Command/Dawnshard.
Taking from Dresden Files, a Dawnshard is more akin to a Mantle.
Intent literally means what you want to happen lol great episode guys
And the command is just the action, the one verb, in this example it is CHANGE and the intent is how and what are we changing, which would be the visualization. At least that's how I see it
Someone help me relate command and intent to mistborn. When you burn the metal that is command and what you want it to do is intent? Or what about Elend consuming the bead of leraisium? Is that the command or the intent? He was barely even conscious.
I would say that the command is the burning of the metal. As most of the time before it becomes instinctual your commanding the investiture to flow through you by burning the metal. And the intent would be to preserve as we know from Brandon, that is why Allomancy is of preservation. The intent of Allomancy is to preserve yourself through the magic, and the command is burning the metals to reach preservations investiture
I would say Intent is you wanting to choose to burn the metal, and the "Command" is the metal itself.
Tyler, you're not 100% accurate in how you are quoting that Allomancy being of Preservation WoB. (I should know; I got that one.) I wouldn't say magic systems have "intent." I'll talk about all of this in an Intent video in a bit. -Eric
17th Shard okay I see what your saying Intent is more a personalized aspect in using investiture. Where it doesn’t directly apply to the magic system in the way Connection or Identity would. Is the metal the command because it directs how the investiture is to be used. Like how an awaking command directs the usage of the breath. So each metal is a type of command for each type of different allomatic power. I really like that idea. Thank you for responding!
@@17thShard thanks for the response Eric!
On commands and language, I think that people need to use spoken commands is because it Connects them to all the people who speak that language strengthening the intent of their command.
Makes the most sense is the painting is what happened when they went into the spirit realm broke him into 4 mind parts and then broke those into 16 physical parts.
I like "Survive" as one of the commands, rather than "Protect". If I'm trying to think of 4 core "ideas/instincts" you want to build into all of creation. "Change" - the ability to grow, evolve, adapt. "Survive" - The instincts to find food, to flee, to fight, to not just lie down and starve to death. Maybe the desire to procreate falls here too. Uhmmm. Those 2 are as far as I got.
As for Command verse Intent, I pretty much just agree with Argent. Command is nothing but words, or an order. "Fetch Keys" is just words. I don't think "Intent" is the "how do you want me to go about this" though like you suggested. I think Intent is more of having an understanding of what it means to fetch keys. So if you had the right level of intent and understanding, and gave the Command to find something, the awakened object would be able to go around the world searching for this object. Similarly, you'd need understanding of the universe to make changes on a large scale, like you said. Can't change a planet in orbit without an understanding of what orbit is, where the planet currently is, where you want it to be, what does it mean to move it...etc.
So I like the idea that Rysn can't do any of this without access to Investiture. If she had Investiture, she could Command Change in things that she has enough of an understanding of, and an understanding of what it is she wants to do. But you'd need the expanded mind/understanding of a Diety (or Shard) to fully make use of such a Command
Kelsier the Dawnshard of Survival confirmed?
I think survive is too specific. I like "Persist"
That seems better to me and survive still falls under the umbrella of persist, protection and preservation.
Do we know who were the Dawnshards (possibly one was Hoid) when Adonalsium was killed? Did they change a Dawnshard for a shard? If not, we are looking for (possibly) 4 people present in the shattering that didn't take a shard but were willing to kill Adonalsium.
Who says you can't hold both. I figure Odium had one at one point. That would explain how he was able to fight and kill two other Shards at once over on Sel. It would also explain why he's having trouble this time if Honor had the Unity Dawnshard and killing Honor weakened Odium enough that he had to pursue the long game strategy with the desolations.
The mural depictions of the people going into portals, perhaps it is depicting the original shard holders at the Shattering. It is unknown how the Shards originally manifest, perhaps they create a perpendicularly since they are newly formed from Adonalsium; the portals leading to the Shards through the Spiritual Realm.
Perhaps even the portals are summoned as part of the process of the Shattering.
On its walls they found strange murals. People with hands forward, falling through what appeared to be portals, emerging into . . . light?
"People" in this case doesn't necessarily mean many, it could mean one per portal. I'd bet if Rysn bothered to count the portals, there would be 16.
Like David Eddings... The Will and the Word.
I see it like this. The Intent is the individual's understanding of what they want to happen. In other words the goal or end result desired. Part of this is the capacity to know and understand what all is involved. Increased mental capacity allows for increased complexity and accuracy of Intent. The Command is the application of the intent or the realization of the intent. It can be verbal, physical, or of your powerful enough a thought can be enough to apply or bring to pass the Intent.
My take on the Intent/Command discussion is this....imagine a line of code - the code itself is the intent, the visualisation is knowing what that code will become and the the command is the "enter" button to get it going.
So in a sense, Ian was on the right path about the visualisation is the "bridging" between the two, or being a type of translator of the Intent.
Here is my absolute hottest take: Nikli says that the most powerful FORMS of surgebinding require a command and an intent. We know that he uses surgebinding to mean any kind of magic. Assuming that intent is an inherent part of investiture (odium has has hatred as an inherent part of that his investiture, and the same for each shard), what if Nikli means that the magic systems themselves all were given the intent by the shard. Honor had a specific intent when creating his magic system, and now the investiture on Roshar has some amount of his intent as part of it. This is similar to how connection is part of all the investiture on Roshar.
Watching this in 2022, finaly read Dawnshard (no audiobook and my time schedule is sooo busy) and watching Argent sain "Rayse is Odium" and started laughin so hard :-D
Something is missing from the conversation about command and intent. In the scene where Szeth becomes Preservation and Ruin, he begins to transform the planet in a way the emperor couldn’t, because he had so much understanding on the eco system due his coppermind.
Something about that scene feels closer to the text about demands on a level no one could manage.
Command = trigger that activates the magic (I.e. words, actions, eating metal etc)
Intent = meaning/method of choosing the effect caused by the trigger
How does aluminum fit in with the dawnshards? Maybe the dawnshards were originally 1 force and it shattered into 4 during the shattering of adonalsium. And maybe aluminum ties in some how given its ability to resist investiture.
I was thinking that for each level of Radiant oath, it involves a CHANGE. And this change isnt a trivial change - it is a complete change in the self and soul of the Radiant. As you were discussing, for each Radiant, they have to experientially go through a change in order to understand how each oath would bring meaning to who they are. (Like we see Kaladin struggle so much to really bring change in his own thinking about who is he and who is meant to protect). In other words, as Grace said, the CHANGE is impacted at the level of spiritual identity. I was thinking this ties back to the dawnshards being a kind of command which isnt just about words (though I think they are important) and even visualization (again, tjhat is important, because remember how the Radiants actually take on the physical form of who they imagine/visualize themselves to be), but I think we have to understand this spiritual level of the Dawnshard Command itself. I think that aptly captures the vastness and depth of what a dawnshard Command can be like. But as a mortal its difficult for us to imagine this vastness, which is why we've all been trying to discuss over and over how a command might be different from an intent. Great discussion though!
Also, I think visualization is definitely the command, but it is a part of it, and not the whole. I think Intent is more to do with identity and command more to do with change. Although so far we only know of a dawnshard that is the command of change, so maybe we'll rethink this more when we come to know of other dawnshards.
Only partway through the video, but the repetition of the word change just made me think of lift's boon from cultivation to "not change" which hasn't stopped her aging or physically changing. Is this some ploy from cultivation to perhaps make lift immune to the dawnshard's effects or something further into the future, since shards have the ability to perceive the future (possibilities at least)
I don't know if this theory came into existence before or after this episode, but there is a theory that, the 4 only words in all of the cosmere books that have been seen written in all caps, are the names of the Dawnshards. These 4 words are: (Spoilers for Dawnshard and Stormlight up to this point and The Bands of Mourning and Mistborn up to that point)
CHANGE (when Rysn became Change)
DESTROY (when Nightblood is drawn, this theory also states that Nightblood currently is that Dawnshard)
SURVIVE (when Kelsier found the freezing southern Scadrians and helped them survive, it is theorised that he is that Dawnshard)
UNITE (in the context of Dalinars visions, though I don't remember the exact scene; there is no good theory for this Dawnshards current whereabouts).
I like Grace's four things for Dawnshards, partly because it has a slight implication that Adonalsium had nothing to do with creating the universe, but probably just affects things in it as a deific being.
Change would have Ruin (the most obvious), Cultivation (growth), and Endowment (giving, and I also got a very Endowment-y vibe from the dawnshard in the book).
Bind would be Honor (oaths, being honor-bound, etc.), Preservation (binding is a more stasis-y one, and Preservation did bind Ruin to the Well), and Dominion (the power to bind others to your will in mundane contexts)
Feel would be the emotion-related Shards: Devotion, Odium, Ambition.
Think would obviously be more cerebral, like some of the names that have been bounced around for not-yet-met Shards (Wisdom, Prudence, Ingenuity, all of which might end up not being Shard intents at all).
I don't know what the storms to put Autonomy in, though. Maybe Change, as in being able to change the course of your life, maybe Think, as in having your own thoughts. Hard to say.
Then again, those unnamed Shards might end up changing that fourth Dawnshard to be something else instead. not sure what, because autonomy as a concept kind of defies being put into a box. Though that I guess supports the "Think" theory, so who knows? I'm kind of leaning toward filing Autonomy under Think.
Edit: I'm not sure if the Shards need to be from the same bucket to fit together Harmony-style. I like the idea of Preservation under the Change one as a kind of "lack of this" type of thing. But Preservation to me feels very bind-y. On the other hand, putting Preservation under Change as the antithesis might mean having a non-that thing for the other categories, which is interesting. Odium might fit under Think in that case, AND Autonomy would have a place under Bind, or whatever its name would be. I personally like Bind.
OH! After some fiddling with Grace's idea of every Dawnshard bucket containing/producing the Shards with a positive, a negative, one that abstains from the thing, and one that influences others, or "gives" as I've now termed it, I have a really nice and clean one! It's not perfect, but with more Shards I think it might become that:
Change: Cultivation (positive), Ruin (negative), Preservation (abstinent), and Endowment (giving)
Bind: Honor (positive), Dominion (negative), Autonomy (abstinent), and Devotion (giving)
Odium as the negative of Feel seems quite obvious, but him calling himself Passion makes me lean toward the possibility of him being the "giving" under Feel, or abstinent under Think (though Preservation was unable to change things, and I don't know about Autonomy but I think she might've been unable to "bind", whatever that means, and Odium obviously thinks a great deal). Ambition is a bit harder. Could fit under Feel as either positive or negative, or under Think as abstinent.
Command and Intent
I would pose this line for considering.
Communication of experience for the infinite possibilities of ________.
The passage describing what the DS is to me suggests that the commands predate Adonalsium. If they created all things then they created Adonalsium ... and so originate with the God Beyond.
Ed: my 4 candidates
Change (alteration)
Will (thought, bind, includes laws of nature)
Be (protect, stasis, create)
Soul (feels/spirit/connection)
Remember you're god here. Start with BE to make existence, define the existence via WILL, the process of Be shaped by Will is CHANGE, and the reason reality is more than an empty mechanical process is SOUL.
'Let there be light!' That is a command the Intent is wanting to create light.
Or the command is pulling the trigger, the rest is just pointing at what you want to hit. And that gets more complex the more you dive into it. I think the complex nature come from the scale of thinking about the whole thing.
The split is 4 parts then 4 each right. So if there are 4 primary dawnshards, would 4 shards of adonalsium from one piece be similar to each other in some way. Eg : rune, cultivation are more similar to change than preservation or honor
Hoid having been a Dawnshard is certainly news to me, holy crap.
I personally think the Command/Intent with regards to Visualization is similar to how magic works in the Eragon series so spoilers for that:
Basically in Eragon you cast magic by saying the words but later on you discover that any thought can create magic but that is really dangerous for mortals and so the language was created to safeguard the magic. So if you want to create fire you say fire and intent it to appear in the fireplace. If you try do it by intent only you may create fire but set the land itself on fire or something.
So the Visualization is the Intent. The command is required for Mortals. It safeguards what you’re trying to do because you don’t have the capacity. However if you reach Tenth Heightening or you’re a Deity you have a breadth of understanding where that Safeguard is no longer required.
Very nice comment
I'll be honest, when I was reading there was a point where I just started laughing because I realized that you were going to have to admit that the Dawnshard was in the undersea cavern in Aimia!
Mural = Map to putting Adonalsium back together? I have always thought that Wit's endgoal and the endgoal of the series was for all of the god's spren and all the god's men to put Adonalsium back together again. The mural makes it sound like we need four parts of four parts each to come together first before putting these final four parts together into one whole. So, which parts go with which? Are Odium, Cultivation, Honor and one other part of the same fourth?
Change, Survive, Unite, and Choose are my pick for the Dawnshards.
If this Dawnshard is only one Command of the four... I think the four are, in overly simple terms, akin to:
-Exist
-Cease
-Change
-Understand (this is the weakest though)
My first thought was that each of the Shards somehow grouped together in groups of four based on the mural's division, each related to a different Command... but that doesn't make sense itself. The Command and Intent seem to be separate - the Shards are the Intents incarnate, where the Commands are, well, the Dawnshards. The Shards can issue commands of tehir own, but these are the most important.
Wild Guess: each of the other Dawnshard murals will be different. This one shows a resigned or understanding Adonalsium, one who knew that even though he was ceasing to be, he was not being destroyed - his power would, per the Command, change into a new form. I wonder if the other plates will show other emotions.
So pre-Shattering there were only the Dawnshard and Adonalsium's power, and the original 16 used the Dawnshards to "undo Adonalsium"...
I think each of the Four Commands were used to rip off pieces and shape the Intent of Adonalsium's power. To relate to what Grace said, if the Dawnshards are filters for Spiritual power then perhaps the first mural depicts the 16 filtering the Spiritual power of Adonalsium through the Dawnshards (using them to "undo Adonalsium").
So by this logic, each Command was used to filter or take 4 distinct pieces of Adonalsium's power. For example, I think this Dawnshard (the Change Dawnshard) was used to shape the Intent of at least three Shards we've seen (Preservation, Ruin and probably Cultivation) and one other. So Leras used this Command to take the power of Preservation and so on....
My hot take is that Dalinar is hearing the "Voice" of another Dawnshard (Unite them)...the Dawnshard associated with Unity. I think this Dawnshard will be used to Unite some of the Shards of Adonalsium. I think Honor, Odium (Passion), Devotion and Dominion are all Intents shaped by the same Command
Also, do we think these 4 Commands correlate with the 4 fundamental forces. So the Change Dawnshard could be associated with the weak force, and a Unity Dawnshard could be related to the strong force...
40:47 damn, thats a GREAT theory
Hey I know this is super late. But I am firm in the belief that one of the Dawnshards will be Survive. Preservation among others would fall under that