Revisiting the Barbell Row with Mark Rippetoe
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2024
- Rip discusses some details and lessons learned while doing the barbell row over the last year.
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The supaaaine grip
Hhhwhile....
Hip draaaaahve
Sets of Fahve
Haaaaaiiing
Why am I reading with his voice..!? 😂
How great is Mark. He teaches us, he learns more himself, then teaches us again
Shame about the crap he's teaching
anthonydude Maybe if you cry about it you'll feel better.
@@rogerlawton2240 sorry, I didn't mean to insult your boyfriend
Here, so you can actually learn how this exercise is supposed to be done, rather than wasting your time on this clown:
www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/bent-over-barbell-row
@@simonadventures3727 - Your comment is off base. And, I do strict bent over rows with similar weight to what Rip is doing in the video.
Just needs to touch the belly, you say?
Thank God for my beer belly and T-Rex arms
I have chimpanzee arms and not a very big belly
Lol
In here with the real tips
🦖
Captain Kirk?
I really like how you keep updating your material as you learn. I think a lot of people would be concerned with their ego in regards to that, I’m glad your not one of them.
You're*
It be even better if he learned what he was talking about BEFORE he posted a video. I hate to say it but I’ve seen him make videos where he does things that contradict his own book. The book is good! Follow your own book! 🤷🏻♂️
Respect for acknowledging one's own shortcomings and coming with something better.
Yeah...imagine he didn't just use his own experience as a reference...imagine a group of people that study it, observe, theorize, test, and compile/share in info...you know...like Exercise Science. Which, according to Rip is "b*llsh*t" but interestingly he eventually comes to the same conclusion.
@@yew2oob954Except 99% of the time it's literally the opposite lmao "bro science" guys say something 50 years ago, science guy says "um source??? 🤓" and then 50 years later some study comes out confirming the bro was right all along.
@@CigEconomy Nope, try again. Bro science is by definition not right. Science doesn't eventually agree with Bro science. Science is an ongong investigation not a conclusion.
@@yew2oob954Oh, like Renaissance Periodization? Yeah, like a panel of sports doctors. 👍🏻
Imagine!
@@totallyfrozen Nice strawman...what does Renaissance Periodization have to do with what I said?
Its been a hawhile since we've visited Barbell Row. Ready for the dhrahve.
I have a 70 inch gut and can do 600lb barbell rows. if it touches the gut its legit, haters gonna hate
I’m late to this but you win haha.
Kyriakos, is that you?
😂😂
This is the most awesome comment ever
'Over the mid foot' is the 'one weird trick' that is actually legit for much barbell work.
This channel is EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED!!!
Thank you Mark! Since I began Starting Strength several months ago, I have safely increased my strength beyond anything I ever imagined I'd do, without EVER injuring myself. I disagree with your politics, but love you and the program you invented. It's really making me feel young and virile. I'm 57 years old and feel and move like I'm in my 20s, completely free of pain. The squat as taught by you, has made me more flexible than I have ever been in my life. Thank you Mark from the bottom of my heart. I will begin rereading Starting Strength again tonight.
Hi bud, you still training hard? Any changes you made since your comment?
takes a big man do make a video like this. i do appreciate it
Glad to see the revision from supine to prone grip. I tried supine briefly in the past, and I could tell it was way too stressful on my elbows.
Another reason for powerlifters to be fat. Missed reps you say? Not with a 60 inch waist!
Stop your fat shaming!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The row isn't a powerlift though
I think it should be, but it's not
I actually had a 60 inch waist, thankfully down under 50 now
@@kerberos623 at my biggest mine was 47 inch, currently at 35 (:
@@RetreatHell518 good on you! I am trying to get down more, but stuck at 48 for now. 8)
Add them in if their appropriate for you , leave them alone if their not ... best advice ..👏👏
Platosbeard , I wholeheartedly concur 👏
Thanks for the tips coach
I've been training the lift weakly too!
I train all of my lifts weakly. Was prescribed gallon of milk per second to fix this.
Yeah, I'm still weak on all my lifts too...
I can testify to the fact that biceps tendonitis takes roughly.....forever to get rid of.
@Rob Dixon fucking sleeping like the mummy with arms stretched out over a pillow
Yes it does and it really sucks when it's all good it just jumps to to opposite arm..😖
I got rid of mine by tearing my pec off the bone. No lifting for 3 months. All my tendinitis was healed.
@@aaronherrell5570 Are you ok now?
Wow! Its bugged me for years my occasional tendon issues, this video has given me the answer! The Grip - thanks so much for this.
Love it ! New content on the day I needed it the most :) Keep them coming Rip!
fahve bayh fahve rows
dave b Hahahahhaha
Gotta get mah fahves.
I got my supine bb row up to 200 and then it became really taxing on my tendons so I dropped it down to 185 and just added another set, worked back up to 195 then dropped down to 180 and added another set. but I try keep in mind that this is assistance work and not to prioritize increasing it like I would the main lifts
you are smarter than 99% of the gym bros out there
What is your main exercise for back then? Deadlifts don't count and unless you're doing heavy weighted pull ups or T-bars, I can't think of a better back exercise to go heavy on.
@@nullvektor9922 If my tendons are feeling good I might do some heavy barbell row sets and then switch to t bar next time to give the bicep tendons time to recover. I do heavy SLDL's for the hams and glutes, pull ups and behind the neck press for upper back and strengthening the rotator cuff and every couple of weeks on a conditioning day I'll do a really heavy farmer's walk to test my overall progress because once I get stronger I want to get into strongman so thats like my test of "can I move with heavy weights?" and theyre obviously great for the postural and stabilizing muscles.
Aren't those Pendlay rows?
Yeah, Pendlay rows are one kind of barbell rows. "Barbell rows" is an umbrella term.
Not positive, but I believe pendlay is zero hip movement
No
Great video thanks again for your time and help 🏋️
Demonstration at 4:00 and forward shows missed reps since no touching belly?
Rip is the real OG!
I’d have called that a pendlay row personally. But great video and quaking with fear daring to argue with the great Rip
Haha, right? I've always done my rows strict with minimal lower body involvement. Hard to see that being "wrong" but I certainly won't say this isn't a valid alternative!
How to breathe doing the bent over row when bar is only in the air?
Ive had zero coaching on the clean. Can i replace it with the row when doing the program or should i consider a different lift?
This is guy is a genius.
I have the problem, that my elbows are in a different position.
My right elbow is more tucked in than my left one. It feels natural for me, but I don‘t have any idea how to fix it.
Ben Herbert same, my shoulders are misaligned as fuck
Yeah same... if I close my eyes and hit a double bicep pose to where it feels natural, one arm and shoulder will be higher than the other.
I have kinda the same problem in that one of my arms is always in a different position. It becomes apparent during quite a few different exercises and it drives me nuts!
If it doesnt effect your training, and It doesnt Hurt - is it worth noting?
Seriously. Does minor muscle imbalances really matter? Everyone has imbalances, and in most cases they Are not a problem, because you dont notice it. I know my right lat is bigger than My left, but it doesnt matter.
Its a TWUD - Time Wasted on Useless Details.
You should probably focus on the primary lifts (squat, press, benchpress, deadlift), which will tend to balance you out after some time.
THANK YOU!! I’ve been saying this. Wow do I feel on a high horse.
Two months after this was posted, Rip corrected my dead lift in that rack (yes, I posted my video)....and holy crap...he's wearing the same shirt....
I like to superset barbell rows with barbell bench press and I'm striving to push and pull the same weights and volume for each movement.
Mark Rippetoe is much smarter on the subject of strength training than me, and also stronger than me. Still I'm shocked it took him this long to announce that a supinated grip isn't the best for the row. But good on him for changing his stance.
K B I like the supine grip for strict bodybuilder style rows. For this style 100% prone
It doesn't matter how you grip with this style of row. If you do it as is shown in this video, you're targeting your lower lumbar spine with extreme weight. If your elbows get hurt first, maybe you won't slip a disc. Might be better to use a supine grip, in the long run.
@@MrDanielWP At start, you're driving up with your legs much the same as you do with deadlifts, but with less weight. I can't see this being any more dangerous than a deadlift, and probably even less so.
Daniel Peer “you’re targeting your lower lumbar spine with extreme weight”
LOL! Wait til you see a deadlift, bud.
@@454Casull Ask a chiropractor or PT.
If I recall correctly, in the book a rep volume of 8 reps is recommended with a low enough weight. Now here, Rip talks about heavy weights, hence the overhand grip. Did the recommended rep count change? And if so, to what? Maybe 3x5 like most lifts in the program or more like a 5x3 like the cleans, since both need to be explosive?
I would like to add that its a perfect exercise for all gamers who sit all day with arms on the keyboard. All shoulder pain goes away in a month!
Shoulder pain might be more complex then do this one excercise
@@jokecukie If you are a setendary person 99% of the time the Row gonna fix you. Also the deadlift. Only 1% of cases need further investigation and usually are people with injuries from the past.
@@jokecukie a lot of joint pain goes away when you start exercising
Cringe
Thanks for the quality video ripp
Everybody should do rows, in my opinion - despite not being in an advanced stage. It's a fundamental human movement, like the other 3 cardinal shoulder movements. How they're done may differ, but it can't hurt, only helps (when programmed properly).
I certainly miss the barbell row. Ran it on 5x5 and Madcow but now focus on increasing my chin up on a 531 template. Still, rowing is satisfying, prefer it to benching.
theres room for both. you should be doing *some* vertical and horizontal pulling no matter your program. except for maybe powerlifters during a peaking phase.
This has helped me gain mass...Great workout
Nice.Started doing them and they are awesome.
Been doing these wrong 😂 thank you, Rippetoe!
Papa Rip is awesome!
if youre gonna kip the bar up like that, why not just clean? Ive heard Mark say they dont do push press because the hip and knee extension doesnt involve the target muscles; this is the same thing, using leg force against the floor isnt going to target your middle and upper back, you are just accelerating the bar through most of the motion while using weights that are too heavy for your rhomboids, posterior delts etc to do on their own
My personal problem with cleaning is the transition between cleans. Most people just drop the bar from their chest. My gym rules are lax, but that would probably be too much even for them, plus I could hurt someone training next to me. With rows, none of that is a problem.
Also, IDK for sure, but I feel more hypertrophy with rows than cleans, cleans just feel like their training my explosiveness, but I can control rows much better. I might just suck at cleans, but not suck so much at rows.
When you get into heavier weights it's your bodies natural reaction to give a little body english.
“why not just clean”
Because you can’t clean as much weight as you can row.
@@dafunkmonster You can't shoulder press as much as you can push press. Thus my first question remains.
Man he's strong
i did supine grip and got elbow pain for a while
seems like I can only do supine grip for BB row. I got some tendinosis issues with the left forearm. Top of my forearm is like shredded taco meat. Ugh.
@@saintapathy yeah supine grip feels good, but will play around with your tendons...same as dumbell curls
With all the things to consider, this recommended technique sounds a lot more involved than the deadlift.
What about the supine grip in chin ups? Is it better to change to pronated grip pull ups? Thanks.
What about breathing?? The same as the Deadlift? Take a deep breath, pull drop than breath out? Or breath out after the pull at the top (belly touch)???
That rapid deloading/reloading of your spine which happens if you sink your hips down mid-lift ("cheat") seems like a great way to blow a disc if your spine isn't held strictly neutral throughout the motion. For that reason, I see this form of barbell row more like an olympic lift.
explain how
@@blutilol It is merely my conjecture, consistent with the generally accepted principle of performing movements slowly and smoothly, without any sudden jerking. In this case, the momentary deloading might result in you [involuntarily] releasing tension from your spinal erectors which could cause your spine to deviate from the more protective neutral position, and in this case the loss of spinal form would be occurring immediately preceding the "reloading" of your spine as the weight moves rapidly downward. The force required to decelerate this weight is higher than if it were lowered in a more controlled manner. Rip apparently does not believe in an eccentric phase for the barbell row but you can see both people (himself included) doing the rows here do make some effort to slow the descent of the weight. If you get sloppy and catch your spine in a bad position on that downward part, it could be a recipe for herniation. It's not that you can't do rows this way safely. It's just that there is more potential for injury, as with really any dynamic power movement. Problem is, most people aren't as cognizant of their lower back position during rows as they would be with say, deadlifts. I read somewhere that Ronnie Coleman probably hurt his back doing rows (where he used similar form), not squats or deadlifts. Those leg presses probably didn't help either.
How many of y'all have accidentally hit your kneecaps real good while doing these?
Not this but it happens every time I go down to reset for deadlift reps
Hell yeah, if your kneecaps dont hurt, you're doing it wrong
@Kaixa 913 your comment is so true 😂😂
I do the supine grip with an EZ bar. Takes care of the bicep issues
RUclips put ads about fixing your lower back pain right under this video 😂
What do you do if you don't have a belly Mark?
I'm glad I watched this. I lowered the weight because I thought I was cheating when I went heavy but what you say makes sense.
Damn you too, too much quantity Dark Deep Sleep DDS, maybe you have that moustache too on the between eyebrows?
btw, do you have 45 Arseth Vade location?
Are his shins touching the bar at the bottom?
Hip draaaahve
So can I do this instead of power cleans?
absolutely, Great movement, just as beneficial as powercleans. itll hit your lats, traps, rear delts and biceps not to mention build grip strength in your hands and strengthen your forearms
David Ward book says no
Glad to hear Rip point out the problem with supine grip. I tried supine once and hated it for various reasons and like it for none,
If you did this without a shirt on, would this be a main lift?
Now I see this after giving myself golfer's elbow trying out a supine grip....
Finally an exercise where I need a belly.
Better than doing power cleans on light day.
Do you mean too much stress on the proximal or distal bicep tendons?
why is his back not straight?
The absolute best replacement for power cleans
Seems like these weights are way too heavy. I do these with weight I can control on the way down. Is fighting the way down not worth it?
"You need to touch your belly."
*Shows blonde kid trying to row 315 but can't touch his belly*
@Becoming Godsize Why are you defending this guy so much? Regardless of what you say, in the video Mark very clearly stresses that it has to touch your belly to count as a rep while the video playing in the background shows someone not touching their belly. It does not matter how much you love that blonde guy, it is still hypocritical and we are rightful to point it out.
Bad bad video.
It does touch his belly?
It does touch his belly.
I mean if he had a belly that's where it would be so
He used the supine grip in the video with Niki. Nuts.
Caller Woolam credited this movement, or something very similar to moving his deadlift up.
He referred to it as sort of a “deadlift row.”
good!
What if i increase my belly size
Wish you would add the row to your app
I have been doing supine rows on my light day. If I get serious with barbell rows I will switch to prone.
4:04 all missed reps
Swiss bar neutral grip? Or swiss bar slight neutral grip?
Doesn't Rippetoe's belly reduce the range of motion here.
That's how dorian tore his bicep right? Supine rows
Yes exactly but not from the floor. Yates Row is more of a hybrid of a shrug/row lol.
@@mrdfk9410 yeh Yates row is with ur back at about 70 degrees pulling into the waist. Shouldn't be a shrug, but that's what we end up seeing with people using too much weight.
@@mrdfk9410 wrong if you read blood and guts and the video(dvd) it show you exactly how it's done
The lift starts from the floor like any row but it's how his angle of his back is different to traditional barbell rows
It has less strain on your lower back and you don't round your back like traditional rows
@@Hanuman_ it not high & if it turns into a shrug, you are doing it wrong
Dorian Yates demonstrating bent over Barbell Row
ruclips.net/video/rNjwZ1fxtCQ/видео.html
If you watch that video, you'll notice Dorian isn't setting the bar on the floor for each rep. That is the correct form. What is shown in this video is not good.
He said pronated grip should be done when we do the barbell row for workout sets. Except warm-up sets.
I feel like there is no way to do the barbell row without destroying your back in the long run. The horizontal row is the only muscle that I prefer to train with a (cable)machine.
where on the body is the 'horizontal row' located?
where on the body is the 'horizontal row' located?
@@dudeman3339 I knew that one of you guys was going to show up :p
@@Roel93 answer the question, uncle ruckus
Why do the knee rebend?
I don’t have nearly as much belly to pull to, hell I’m pulling it another foot plus. So what about guys that don’t sport the pot belly ?
This looks like deadlift rows, which are great.
Awesome
I'm 48 and do these with supinated grip every week and it is just fine. Just build up to it slowly.
Says to keep back straight rows like a scared cat
I find his form rather odd too I mean his lumbar spine is neutral-ish but really not there in my opinion
He has thoracic kyphosis. That's his straight back.
@@OscarRichardson hmm I wonder why he has this. Should he have done something to correct tha over the years?
@@getstrongby4038 I think it's something that developed over the years, I suspect it's related to his injuries. He had a habit of getting thrown off horses and motorbikes.
@@OscarRichardson yeah I only asked that because it's usually a case of a weaker upper back. Which wouldn't make sense really but I guess the accidents could explain it
How old Is mark and he's pulling like
3 and sum
I´m using these to counterbalance my bench, but I would ask if I bench 315, how much should I aim to be rowing to balance myself out? is it a 1:1 ratio? I´ve only just transitioned from machine rows so I´m well well below that mark....
I row about 10% more than I bench but I don't know if that's normal
@@ishkalola I think you must have a really strong back my dude
@@siddislikesgoogle Lol I'm 70kg benching 70kg and rowing 78kg, I don't have a strong anything. I tend to find when I haven't lifted for a long time my bench and row are the same, but bench usually stalls first.
If your feeling these in your lower back more than your lats does that mean that you’re going too heavy or that you’re lower back is too weak ?
From my experience I assume it's because you don't know how to set your lower back and instead contract it to move the weight. Instead, set in extension and hold tight to make it a proper transmitter of force. Heavy deadlifts teach you this.
@@bodhi1021 I’ll give it a try thanks
its same with heavy chins. Something biceps related gets inflamed.
The way he does them looks more like a pendlay row. It's more explosive than slow and controlled. Love Rippetoe though and he knows much more than I do.
Should a hook grip be used for this?
You'll quickly find out that a hook grip isn't as strong as double overhand for this exercise. That's my experience
You're gonna be rowing significantly less than your deadlift, enough to where you should be able to double overhand it
Double overhand with or without straps
Submax weight, no need strap or hook
Hookgrip all day
I used supine grip once with 225 and my left forearm and elbow haven’t been right since. It’s been 8 months...
Might want to go get that looked at..
You Know yea I’m putting it off. The thought of not training scares me. But at the same time, not fixing the problem could be worse. Still, not training!?! Makes me sick
@@jigginjohnson2893 if you go to a physio, you'll likely be able to train around it. I put my damn back out once, still went to the gym and made gains on my squat. Doctors will just give you pain killers
Check out Rip's "pin fire" method on his Starting Strength forum. I got very extreme golfer's elbow doing heavy chin ups during NLP and know all too well how hard this is on the inside elbow.
I won't be using the supine grip on anything ever again after going through all that, if I want biceps work I can always do some high rep bro curls at the end of a work out. 🤣
HAL 9000 I’ll check it out, thanks. I switched to hammer curls for bicep work. Those mixed with wrist support straps makes all the difference.
I first like, then I'll watch. That's my case with Rip's videos.
I mean... they are absolutely cheat rows, whether he says it or not.
Are you talking about throwing your upper body into the bar on its half way point upwards, primarily driven by extending the knees?
fg pardon?
@@ryantaylor3914 I was just explaining the cheating part. The bar goes up a little through knee extension, a little motion from the lats followed up by throwing your upper body downwards into the bar. Peak cheating has been accomplished! It is fucking ugly.
@@fg786 You left out how he is trying to slip a disc in his lower back by using his lower lumbar region to finish at the top of the rep...
@@MrDanielWPYou can only pick up so much while watching it once. After the first view my eyes bled and I couldn't watch it again.
Thank you, Sir!
Interesting... never actually used leg drive in these
Yeah bud, when I start using legs or meeting belly to bar I count that as a miss. Guess we're being too strict 🤔
6:53 do these touch?
Not even close to my eye.
Play it in 0.25 speed. It touches
@@Sheikbaby right, the second rep looked sus, but 0.25 shows it touching.
Hmmm, I've been using a supine grip bb row and a close grip bench press on my arm days recently.
I like the Supine Row as a heavy arm day pull rather than doing chest curls like many recommend. I also stand by close grip bench as a heavy arm say push and see the Supine Row as an ideal complement.
So far, I'm keeping the weight and volume equal for both. I probably need to really think on the injury potential though
Time under tension looks very low. Why not cut the weight and stop doing momentum lifting?