You Should Probably Understand What Makes the Character Strong Before Suggesting Nerfs to Them
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2022
- streamed Jan. 18, 2022
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I'm not against nerfs or anything (good balance should have both nerfs and buffs) but i really wish people would acknowledge that there's always gonna be strong characters and instead of begging for nerfs they should learn how to play against them, because when a character gets nerfed they're just gonna go after the next top tier instead of learn. what makes fighting games great to me is the learning process.
its all just so annoying because if Nago gets nerfed no matter how big or small people are then just gonna tunnel vision ram or leo, then when they get nerfed people are gonna tunnel vison HC etc etc.
and even then in the context of strive these characters like happy chaos are strong, but in the grand scheme of fighting games they aren't even that egregious i wish people would just be more open to learning
I do think Nago needs nerfs but I do agree that learning the MU is most important.
Everyone needs to play an old fighting game.
The origin of that quote may be tainted by the author's experience with Deb, but I feel the argument still stands
@@tootsie_ other characters need buffs more badly. Right now Nago is only OP because everything in his kit has a purpose while other characters are still stuck with bunch of dead moves.
@@Sorrelhas context for the quote being tainted if you don’t mind?
These kinds of people don't want a fun fighting game where your character can do cool shit. Everyone but their character needs to be nerfed and then it'll be fair.
Twitch chat hates Happy Chaos:
Happy Chaos: "I'm not here for the fights, no, just The DRAMA"
Just waiting for people to demand gun jamming if HC doesn't oil it regularly or for every mag to be loaded with at least one blank
Heat me out though. The blank is like a fake fireball and he can act out of it immediately
I feel like he would actually have blanks in there sometimes just for the funny.
@@GanguroKonata ..........isnt the whole point of the gun that you can do anything alongside the gun bang blammo?
Its clip to be loaded not mag
And yes I'm being that guy
6:32 "Mankind knew they could not change their strategy, so instead of reflecting on themselves they blamed the matchup."
Can't believe Happy Chaos is a controversial character now. He really is just here for the drama.
I saw this title and knew it was gonna be juicy. Thank you for this! We live in an age where hot-takes rule the world and people are too quick to assign everything (especially their loses) character strength (or lack thereof when talking about their own main). That def leads to misunderstanding what's actually happening in the match (in regards to both the player AND character/match-up dynamics).
It's always been this way. I've seen broken Nintendo controllers because MFer couldn't deal with Blanka electricity mash. It's just way easier to do it across cities and continents now.
Ppl might be slower to judge if the games were designed in a way that it'd be easier to understand wtf is going on and why someone lost.
Gotta love the "fighting game devs" in Twitch chat
TO BE FAIR, didn’t he say as a precursor to the sets “you can put all of your character hate in the chat and I’ll tell you somethin”
Their never wrong 😤
You're just carried by the fact that Chaos doesn't have an arthritis meter
How coincidental that they’re watching the stream at the same time he’s talking about the game
I'm personally glad Arcsys has seemed to master the art of making a character seem weak at first. I mean whats the alternative? If the DLC character comes out and its immediately a top 5 character, people will immediately bleat "LMAO Pay-2-Win broken ass character lel."
Strivers needs to learn what a real arcsys top tier is. Bring in on release GT Goku
@@Windaquer This is so hilarious to see because everyone’s reaction to people whining about GT Goku was “Lmao these DBFZ kids have never actually dealt with a real broken character”
>Strive and DBFZ zoomers arguing about their “broken” DLC characters.
The real classic Arcsys bullshit are the 800-yen tier characters from Blazblue CS2 and CP.
@@FOGSHIE I forgive those more since the only really fucked up one imo was on release Kokonoe, who got adjusted fast in the sequel, and maybe current Izanami. I've wasted too much of my life watching the GT Goku spirit bomb plays. Everyone and their mothers did it
@@Windaquer As a "Striver" I know what broken is. I mained broken. Though maybe I don't count as a striver because it wasn't my first game. I have to thank Skullgirls for helping me develop a much better knowledge of how game balance works and when things are NOT balanced.
Heavy Mob doesn't smoke Happy Chaos for free. Character is broken. Give back dragon install so that when it runs out I can get shot to death on my own time.
Actually spitting.
bring back dragon install 2nd, let me drain my own health bar as a power move
@@chuckin6823 Sol should be able to pop like Nago but his blood rage is Dragon Install
Try that on my accidental dragon install
Its like the axl players complaining about axl damage been low... and wants axl to do big fat damage from full screen
As an axl main I second this if you really wanna do good damage with the character just learn bomber loops
Axl main here.
Do not give Axl more damage please lmao
@@xavibun At that point it wouldn't be fun to play the character because it would stop your combos and gameplay style short. If you can always two tap a person from far away it stops your gameplay short; you have no real challenge meaning Axl becoming a boring character
“But Sajam but if I can’t just press buttons and win the character is broken”
"I didn't pay 60$ to block Sajam"
That's exactly me, and yes I have no shame admitting that
My discord user name is "absolute scrub" for a reason 😄
As a chipp main, that's literally my entire mentality
@@justnot5401 the difference between us is that we die in 2 hits
@@Mr.Faust3 not if I can mash Alpha blade fast eno... oh never mind
Oh how I love this. This happened in fucking dbfz all the time. Players suggest big nerfs to tools in a characters kit that aren't even powerful then complain massively when the character is still strong after the patch because nothing that made them oppressive is gone.
Kid buu has been nerfed since season 1 and he’s still great
@@Mr.Faust3 Kid Buu is unnerfable because the things that make him good are integral to his kit, so you'd have to go out of your way to make him bad, or alter his properties so he becomes a fundamentally different character.
@@dragoknighte48 He’s a damn good character when I quit early season 1 and came back for season 3 I was still getting washed by him you’d have to replace him with super buu or something
Dbfz player’s are cry baby nerf beggars
obviously you're right in what you say, but I want to add a bit of nuance. I think often when people talk (complain) about balance, they're really talking (complaining) about design. A player might not know the intricacies of his opponent's character, but he can know what is or isn't fun to play against, and if everything he does is being negated by one button, he has a right to wonder if that button isn't too versatile. Games can't only be designed to be fun at high levels, they have to be fun at every level of the online experience, or else people just aren't going to play.
fighting game players be really close to league players nowadays
and I'm calling it right now, it's gonna be way worse when project l rolls around and the two communities start to merge
Toxic xbox live ?!?, hell yeah, here we go again lmao
It's all the same people. This idea that one game has certain types and other games different types is way exxageratted. Most games have all different types of people, if you notice a trend in the discourse surrounding a game, it's because of the game, not the players. I've played league, I've played CS, Star Craft, Street Fighter, name a competitive game and I have probably played it for a while and the people are all the same in that they are all different. You get scrubs in every game, try hards in every game, nice folks in every game.
It is simply peoples inclination to generalize that leads to these ideas that "league players are all like this and fighting game players are like this". Nah.
You probably disagree, that is fine, but my experience and logic tells me that every game has all types of people and the "feel" of a community is shaped by the game, not the players.
@@charliericker274 isn't the "feel shaped by the game" just a PC description of how the playerbase is? If the (blank) is shaping the community, then it's acknowledging that the community does have a shape.
@@charliericker274 that is a lot of text lmao
Honestly HC matchups imo aren't "broken", HC matchups are just really fucking tedious.
sajam thank you for being actually helpful and refuting funny scrubquotes, ever since ive started watching my scrubquote count has gone down
Here's my take with happy chaos. His zoning/range tools are *non-interactable*
If that reticle's on you, you take damage. End of. Either chip or a huge burst-safe combo.
Even axl, the big zoner, has zoning tools that are interactible.
I don't know how i'd go about making HC more fun to fight, but the way he fights is fundamentally un-fun to play against for most people.
Making his concentration require a full charge animation until the gauge is full could make the rapid steady aim cancels probably less frustrating. Sure there's 6+ bullets of unavoidable damage, but then the downtime becomes bigger.
So FD doesn't exist now?
@@ArchOfficial might as well. You are still stuck not getting closer, and you are burning meter on a move that might not even come because HC doesn't have to commit to firing.
I feel that maybe since his damage is so burst safe it being so high can feel pretty bad but I'm not sure if it should be changed, cause at higher levels of play I'm sure burst safe is pretty common.
Definitely. Creating burst safe combo routes is a common thing in GG as a series and plays a large part in decision making for combos. When you get the hit do you take the high damage option but could get bursted part way through, or take the burst safe option and get guaranteed damage? I'm at floor 10 and I make that decision with regards to breaking the wall with Calvados before a wallsplat with Ram, or continuing the combo and risk getting bursted when I go in.
GG has always had characters with more burst safe options than others and it's part of what goes into their character design so it's something players just have to get used to.
@@as95ms98 Mhm this is what I figured. It came to mind right away as I am a 10 floor I-No and feel like making these types of choices are what starts to separate good players from excellent ones. That it may seem fairly insignificant but in reality showcases that balance isn't as simple or framed with obvious examples as most people give it credit for.
Do you think the characters in Strive's DLC so far have been way too complex for newer or more casual players? I feel like having a DLC filled with weird and experimental designs is personally a big power move and really cool but I recall someone criticising the pack for this reason and I wanted to know if it was a shared sentiment.
Yeah, baccpack did that.
As a new fighting game player I would have liked maybe one of the characters to be more beginner friendly. I live this game, but none of the opening cast feels like my character and I keep thinking with every release, maybe this will be my spirit gorilla, but so far no dice.
@@davidj.a.8442 There's still hope for you
Sin, Slayer and Jam haven't been added into the game yet
And that's assuming ArcSys won't add Holy Order Sol into the game, as a big "shit in my pants to assert dominance" maneuver
I think making the DLC funky/interesting is cool with me. I love the idea of experimenting and trying new stuff
now that I think about it. The guy criticizing the dlc may be the right considering that the game is "balanced for fun" and made "for casuals". The dlc characters have not be "casual friendly" I would consider the dlc characters more GG like so far. Which is the antithesis of what the foundation of the game was made for audience wise. While its nice to have GG like characters for the hardcore fans it makes the dlc characters feel like they have a better advantage because they dont follow the foundational rules of the game.
I much prefer people saying "they should do this to character" than just saying "character broken and top tier, other character really really bad"
“I can’t autopilot against this character. Plz nerf.”
I tried out this character back when he launched, but had no idea what to do with him. The long sets with DEB and this video are very insightful. Thanks a lot
Hi, Sajam, new fan here. I've been watching your videos for a couple of weeks and I really like your perspective and the way you share your thoughts on the fighting games and/or the fighting community. I love the consistent of your voice and your reasoning.
Take care. Love your Faust teacher video.
And my favourite fighting games are Smash Bros (been playing it for 2 decades), Blazblue (11 years) and Guilty Gear (one month with Missing link and XX +R).
It’s like people thinking Goldlewis is weak just because the execution of his typhoon is pretty hard if you can’t remain calm.
He clearly ain’t trash. Almost nobody can kill you as fast as he can and all it takes is a couple bad reads from you, and a couple crush counters from him.
I’m a Zato player these days, and part of what I love is that whatever every other character is “supposed to do” in a situation, I know Zato’s strat WILL be different. I love that. I love unique characters.
My character needs buffs everyone else needs nerfs.
But he should only get buffs when I play, if someone else plays my character, they get nerfs insteas
My character needs nerfs, but only so no one has an excuse to dodge me and I can call them pejoratives for doing so.
I do think that having better labbing tools would help . feels a lot harder to lab against technical characters, since when i try and do their string i will mess it up or do an imperfect version that has gaps where there shouldnt be. kinda wish you could just import a text file with all of a character's combos into the game and then select them from the training menu to lab out against
thinking about the time the ki devs were talking about balancing and tht they have to find the actual cause of players complaints and not just the complaints
like if ppl are saying a character is doing a bunch of damage they gotta see why that complaint exists to even see if there is a problem ie finding treating the disease not the symptoms
He’s such a strong zoner that it makes versing him just unfun he’s not broken but i just let out a big sigh when I verse him cause I know if I don’t get it quick and fast and in for a long match of just dealing with zoning which is boring but I don’t think he’s near broken just a headache
Nice insightful video for someone who doesn't understand happy chaos. Good job on the editing
This also reminds me of when a certain someone got clapped by Deb and for some reason the consensus was that Sol was broken, not that of course he looks stupid, he's in the hands of one of the best players in the world
Who?
Can anji wield one of happy chaos’s guns in one hand and Nago’s short sword in the other. Thankyou daisuke
Ok, let's talk balance and design philosophy with Happy Chaos then, because I think there's about 3.5 issues Sajam understands but didn't want to address:
1. Free damage. No other character in the game is getting that free chip damage that HC gets. Now you might say "it's not a lot" but I think if you look through the sets you ran with DEB you'll notice he was doing something like 10-20% life per round on free hits if he wasn't catching you mid-animation to wall-splat fullscreen.
2. Inability to "play around" zoning. Much in the same vein as #1, you can't really play around HC's zoning. It's hitscan, it auto-locks, you have to just eat the hit and (as you can see in Sajam's set here) if you get caught in animation that's an easy 40-50% combo + wallbreak.
3. Let's bring it home: You don't know when they'll push the button. Huge issue here in that the move is command-oriented, not automatic, so you (as the player) don't actually know if the opponent will push that button or not. They should, there isn't an upside to waiting really, but they don't have to.
3.5: You'll notice some of the time HC's gun will go past that 90 degree angle it should stop at and hit behind him. Not always, but a definite issue that will probably be patched, mostly because it looks wonky.
Now here's the major upside that I'll lay out as well.
1. HC is annoying to play for inputs. So you can count most causal players out there. Much in the same vein as Z1 or JO, the skill and ability of the player is directly linked to input ability. So for like 99% of players, they are never going to come close to optimal and nobody wants to play a character that demands 4x the inputs to grind out that exp if they don't have the passion.
2. HC players, even people at DEB's level, tend to forget they can't block with gun out or mid attack.
I just realised the thumbnail on the DEB happy chaos vod is from candy and cigarettes
Top tiers and strong characters have existed for ever , but goddamn Happy looks miserable to play against. Just straight up not fun at all.
Pretty much. Unlike other characters, you can't really play around his zoning. If he decides he's hitting you, he's hitting you.
i hate how this character bursting puts him in his win con. and you get to interact with him like 2x a round. i dont think hes broken but i do think hes badly designed
tbf that's true of axl too. If you get burst on, you're back at full screen vs a zoner
What they really need to change is Happy Chaos' peach ring feet.
Quality content. As usual.
I haven't really played strive much since HC came out, but I gotta say its really funny watching him just do full-screen glockstrings on people
Nerfing or buffing shouldn't be based off the order of a tier list but what is enjoyable to play as or against with a character regardless of the win rate. If there is a single meta strategy that the community doesn't enjoy that is the perfect situation a nerf or buff is needed.
Sajam, has your opinion changed on the HC vs. Goldlewis matchup? If not, what would you change about either character to fix it? And do you see any value in balancing for multiple levels of play? For instance, if the only real way out of a given matchup is something super execution heavy that only the best players would be able to do, do you think that means the character shouldn't be rebalanced for the sake of the floor 6 players in the world to have a good time?
And to fully acknowledge my bias here, I'm a Goldlewis player who hates that matchup. Even more than Axl. Yes, you can dash block until HC focuses after 8 straight shots in steady aim and then pull out the gatling, but is that FUN? I wouldn't say so. I'm not sure why HC even has a bullet meter if you can immediately reload the bullet you just spent and get back in time for another steady aim shot as if you hadn't reloaded.
"Take away one of his guns!" had me rolling.
Sajam spitting videos are the best
You touched on my biggest obsticle when it comes to learning/practice in fighting games. How am i supposed to lab stuff when I can't do it. I can do some basic stuff but learning advance stuff on other chars is just so time consuming and need to do it in order practice how to fight agasint it. I keep on wishing we had better training tools like if we had database of training scenarios to practice.
Like all we need is input data to share stuff like that.
Honestly this talk actually opened up a huge new avenue for me in learning fighting game matchups. So far I've mostly been thinking about matchups in terms of buttons and moves, with only a vague understanding of stuff like neutral and footsies. But also just hearing "play slow" suddenly unlocked a new chakra in my brain for how to think of strategies in terms of overall heuristics rather than just "input button: output frametrap"
Im not good at changing up my gameplay or strategies so I just say I’m bad instead of the match up being bad
That's the big brain strat
I'm very scared for the nerfs Happy Chaos will get with Baiken patch. Casual Pot/HC main.
as someone who doesnt play HC and hasn't played him and only watched high level gameplay. i think HC could maybe do with exactly one nerf. reduce how quickly he can target with curse by about 20%. that's about it. i think it's insane that with curse tracking he can catch and shoot out all the fast gap closers so confidently. i feel like HC players should be either forced to gamble on slightly more luck based shots or more prone to fighting for their space/challenging big closers. maybe 15% nerf if 20 is too much. just enough to make it not free denial on everything. he is obviously weaker close range and needs zoning to survive, but it feels like he shouldn't just own the entire screen for almost free AS LONG AS he has a bullet in the chamber and concentration w/curse. though in return i think he could use a buff elsewhere to compensate losing zoning strength, i just don't know where. as obviously if he was more prone to being challenged at mid/close he would need better answers there. like reduced hp loss on clone for more viable spacing options or more range on roll. something giving more flexibility and options.
My experience with HC is that he is very dominant as long as you can keep control, but he can be put in many situations where he really has to struggle to get out of.
It's only natural for people to not understand characters when their only experience with games is via streams.
yeah a lot of Sajams streams dont play
"I hate when you're cursed and they whiff a button and they just pull out the gun and shoot you anyway" Hey now calm down don't expose my entire Happy Chaos playstyle
Happy Choas is the final boss antagonists fighter to the protagonist that is Sol or KY. He is resources and management.
I'll be honest happy chaos Vs I-no is probably the best match up for chaos. since she can't dash block as well as others. So it forces her to walk forward or wait for the opponent to mess up the input.
It's like a lot of the time a player picks a certain character for how they usually play fitting how the PLAYER wants to play and expects that style to be viable against the whole roster or else the game is built wrong. Which IS part of the purpose of a character, in fairness, but just as in RL combat, there are going to be styles that hamper your own, and recognizing and adapting to that is part of competition.
I agree that if you dont fully understand a character or what goes into a character that it makes it infurating to fight because they start pulling out tricks you may never expect. For example a newer player might look at Pot and think that he is unable to grab you unless you are right in his face only for Pot to Kara Buster and grab you from match start. There is a line where a character is easy to play and hard to master vs hard to play and hard to master. Happy chaos fits more in the later half due to how complicated his kit can be. Then again people will always complain about things they don't know how to deal with because they either think there is no way around said problem or that they can't adapt their playstyle to match and outplay their opponent. (Projectile spam being one of the most common forms)
Modern fighting games are definitely steeped in patch culture which stamps out any emergent gameplay (when player gameplay changes due to discovery in a game). An example of it in Strive is actually Nago. He was thought to be a mediocre character at first, then as people discovered things about him he rose to be a top tier menace. Emergent gameplay can go both ways, and characters thought to be strong can get weaker due to people discovering more counterplay.
The correct way to play as or against a character isn't obvious.
i wish people could suggest things without needing to know every important aspect of the things related to the change they're suggesting but that's contingent on people on the internet being able to have civil discussion about it which is basically impossible
hell, even people who are more qualified to make those suggestions are incapable of being civil about it
i think there are two important points that sajam is missing in this video:
1: a lot of the time when someone (particularly someone who plays more casually but not necessarily) suggests a nerf, whether they're aware or not, they're often not suggesting the character gets nerfed because they're OP but instead because they're unfun. for example: if someone thinks sol's gunflame is the most unfun part of his kit to defend, they might not really care about nerfing fs or whatever but they'll have MORE FUN if they dont have to deal with this move they hate. regardless of the actual power level of a character's moves, if the part of a character that isnt FUN is removed, people will be more happy. most people dont play video games to win, they play them to have fun. winning leads to fun and can be fun, but it isnt the ultimate objective for most people' having fun is.
2:sometimes when someone suggests a nerf, the strongest part of the character IS FUN to them and they dont want to change that or maybe they're not willing to try to fight to nerf a core part of the character. or maybe they think the character is able to do things they shouldnt be able to do. (if happy chaos rushes in maybe someone might decide he's too good at being "rushdown" when he should be a zoner") regardless of their intentions, sometimes people will try to nerf sideways because they're TRYING to keep the strong part of a character intact. if someone said "happy chaos shouldnt be allowed to run unless he's wearing shoes" or something like that, it's not becasue they've identified HC's movement as op or his most potent ability, but instead they've decided that happy chaos not being able to move might make him weaker at some things while not nerfing the part of him they actually appreciate
additionally, sometimes people will suggest nerfs to their own character because sometimes "yeah my character is op and it makes me feel bad stomping on my friends like this" is a perfectly valid feeling. when soeone suggests their own nerfs though, they probably dont want to fuck with the stuff they actually like about their character. i used to say jacko's aegis filed was stupid and felt like lazy design and i would regularly suggest nerfs and redesigns to jacko in the discord all the time just for fun conversation topics and i was vindicated when one of my suggestions actually ended up being the same idea arcsys came up with later, but i would never have suggested nerfing the parts of my character i actually LIKED. i'm going to suggest buffs AND nerfs to ANY character, based on how much more fun i think it'll make the game. sure some people are just salty and stupid but that's only a portion of people suggesting redesigns and not necessarily representative of the whole population or players
This shit needs more likes and I want Sajam to address this.
I mean fuck, I was over here making a novel when all I needed to do was just look down further into the comment section to find someone who said basically what I said minus my actual points of what specific nerfs and buffs I would want for Happy Chaos.
Especially relevant comment since I am a Happy Chaos main and all of this applies to either me or my friend who mains Faust.
@@EnderOfLight yeah i've been through it all as an xrd jacko
The real curse is how does Sajam get that kind of person in his Twitch chat considering the type of content he puts out.
Aww, I was really hopin to see some specific examples for a good laugh. Regardless, good vid
Your absolutely right.
All I wanna do is suggest buffs for jacko
4:00 I’ve low profiled bandit bringer with HC 2K before
"They should make it so he has to use a scope to aim" do you want fucking Elphelt? Cause that's how you get fucking Elphelt. Chaos is fine
5:05 glad to know other games you play
XD
You want players to scale to the game. Not the game to scale to the players.
I love these short videos, never stop.
I play happy chaos casually and hearing "He needs 3 bullets" kills me. I'm already bad enough at managing the bullets already
I think it's the general sheepish consensus that if a character isn't 100% in your face farting out mix ups and rushing you down or that they're good at disrupting your pace to establish their own that the pitchforks have to come out, or that it's bad for the game or whatever. Nothing this character does is egregious but if folks are crying now I shudder to see what an UBER defensive character like Baiken will do to folks morale in this game.
when I first saw a dominant happy chaos (I don't play Strive much) I asked, I think it was in a youtube comment actually, is the character unfair or is the opponent missing something? and I was nicely answered that the opponent wasn't respecting curse. it looked brutal, but now I understood why.
I don't mind something that takes patience to fight, idk if other people do... but when you don't know what it takes it's easy to think nerfs are needed. that's why, imo if you're lacking knowledge you can just ask! with twitter and youtube and even twitch chat you can sort of just ask things and sometimes you get a perfect answer, sometimes you end up having to hunt it down elsewhere. both are better than believing something is OP when it's just solid.
Oh. Fighting game fans HATE being patient or any MU that makes them play differently than their imbedded flowchart. It's one of the biggest reasons you'll hear people complaining about and demanding nerfs for low tier grapplers that never win a single tournament. It's literally because they have to stop using moves that get them hard punished with a lifebar deletion, and some people would rather slam their face against that wall until it breaks instead of jumping over it.
Oh bother.
Reading the thumbnail in Winnie-the-Pooh's voice appears to have killed me.
You know Pooh just went public domain?
@@charliericker274 The time has come; I will use that which I once loved to make and sell content to the poohey masses. Pooh-st a-pooh-calyptic pooh-etry and pooh-rose will line the shelves; the streets will thicken like honey with undulating hordes desperately searching for a small smackeral of Pooh. But the Honeypot will be empty; their ravenous rummagings consuming every last drop of Pooh.
"You! You know the stories; we can see it in your eyes! We need you to fill us with knowledge of Pooh!" "I- I'm sorry I can't; I need to-" "No," the crowd begins to shuffle around their quarry; blocking any chance of escape, "we WILL get the stories out of you." The crowd draws suffocatingly near. "Okay! Okay, I'll tell you the story! _'Here is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, be-'_ " "NO! It's TOO SLOW! We NEED the story NOW!" The crowd engulfs it's victim as if they were ants consuming a helpless insect; clawing and biting and pulling and ripping. When they finally extract the brain from its shelter they pause for a moment, then meticulously divide it among all members of the crowd and consume it.
I feel like the match up is not that hard as long as you don’t get cursed. I play Millia instead of Sol tho, so maybe all of her extra movement options is what makes it feel not as bad. I kind of just rush him down and a lot of time if he tries shooting me it misses, and if I get tagged it’s usually not that bad for me because he used up resources to do that which makes the second attempt a bit easier. This a massive over simplification of how I play the MU but it’s the general idea.
Especially Leo. If Leo can get into defensive stance I think hc has to approach, no? Unless there's something I'm missing.
Hm, so I super agree that there are answers and that hes not OP. I think the issue for me is just that its not fun. Like blocking and micro walking between to get there takes a minute and its just not a verg fun or exciting interaction.
I do think itd be silly for me to think I know that the character needs to be fixed and to say that I know how to fix em, but when you get zoned like that for that long, and you fumble the window to get out or even when you do like find the dash in, its just kinda lame. I mean thats subjective, and I myseld like really advocate for keeping a level head and not blaming characters. Like fuck i was a grappler apologist for the longest time. Still kiiinda am.
Idk. I love seeing happy chaos do the aggresive combos. Where he fills the combo holes with bullets. That shits sick. I dont feel bad getring hit by it, it lools cool as hell.
Waiting across screen for the hole in the shooting... i need to get better at it but idk if getring better at it will make it not feel so lame.
I think, that the issue people have with Happy Chaos isn´t really about balancing. The problem is, that this character sucks the fun out of the game for most people. Even if there is a way to aproach him safely, fighting a character that can do a ton of damage from full screen, with a lot of burst safe options just isn´t fun for most people. The real problem isn´t balancing, it´s his design.
This seems like a you problem tbh :/
@@tootsie_ Really, why does it seem like a me problem? Are you suggesting, that most players are having a great time slowly trying to approach Happy Chaos, dealing with potentially 50% damage from full screen by making a single mistake and with no burst option?
@@silviuchertes9464 yes because it's not hard to dash and block the shots until he runs out. Everything is governed by his resources and he gives up ground very easily when he doesn't have them or needs to regenerate them. I play Giovanna and I can say pretty confidently that I beat HC more than I beat characters like Nago
@@tootsie_ It might not be as frustrating for you because you play Gio, a character that was designed to close the distance to her opponents as quickly as possible. It´s way more frustrating for others.
Usually, zoners like Happy Chaos and Axl are the least fun characters for most people to play against because, their gameplan is to not let their opponents play the game. That´s also the primary reason why players are always asking for nerfs when it comes to this characters.
@fong still doesn´t change the fact that he is pain in the ass to deal with and not fun for a lot of people.
Let's be real: he's got the freest wall break in the game 🤠
Reminds me of how sometimes low tiers will get worse as the game goes on because people will never bother to actually learn the matchup, and will instead pester the devs and complain about any and all strengths the character has
Zangief?
Rip: I wanna fight the hurricane.
Sajam: You can't fight the hurricane.
Rip: *climbing into his Jaeger* But I wanna!
My issue with Happy Chaos is not so much a balance issue with him, but a "fun" issue. Like, this character already has a really strong offense. What's the point of him having orange gun? Why is his zoning more obnoxious than Axl's? I'll fight Happy Chaos, run and block all day, and I won't call him unbalanced, because honestly, it's just an obnoxious knowledge check. But, is this fun to the majority of players!?
Yea if you don’t get in quick , have fun blocking 90% of the match . It isn’t fun but honestly kinda fun to watch at high levels but versing him is just exhausting
I think they should make it so that you can't play Happy Chaos unless you're using an NES Zapper.
My gameplan for happy chaos is "Play smart, play safe and take space slowly" happy chaos cannot zone you indefinitely and he is forced to take higher risk options the closer you get to him due to the fact that his pressure and zoning are reliant on the same resources which as a result also forces him to make hard decisions on what resource he should prioritise, if happy chaos creates space with clone or curse he's putting himself closer to the corner reducing the options he has available as you close that distance and amplifying the risk of his other options, if happy chaos swings with a premptive button he is now in a situation where hes forced to interact with you that unlike a lot of other characters is restricted by the resources he has left from trying to zone you out which leaves a lot of potential spots for you to take a turn against him with an abare or punish a throw off a read (post throw being the safest opportunity for happy chaos to get his resources back when he gets close to you). TLDR happy chaos isn't broken or op in any sense and is a character that won't allow you to mindlessly run at him that requires actual thinking to deal with.
That arthritis meter tho
I only watched 16 minutes of your set with Deb so I'm pretty qualified to say that happy chaos is too strong so Daisuke should make him sad chaos
Sajam I don't appreciate you putting my letter to Daisuke in the thumbnail
Gun-fu is the future
yeah...
If I can get in on a happy chaos as a level 100 nago, you can, too.
Unless you are goldlewis, then I'm sorry.
“You aren’t good the character is just too strong”
I lost 40 times in a row to x character because I don't know the matchup, it clearly needs to be nerfed.
Aka: How to Patchwhine responsibly
Doesn't matter if he needs nerf or buff, he needs changes, currently good HC is just spamming Steady Aim > Reload (Don't get me wrong, I admit it's really hard to do it consistantly), HC has some creative design, but badly executed, he needs changes so good HCs don't zone for like 90% of the time, it's the same thing as why Arcsys make changes to May's dolphin, Sol's 5S etc.
Buff Chaos, his Dust is scuffed.
“what’s your score against hotashi using your strat” 💀💀🤣🤣
Playing against a good happy chaos looks like a nightmare. Then again, I am bad, so playing against anyone who is good is a nightmare.
Ive recently fought someone who used the repetitive shot with the ult. I found a strat for that scenerio. Bare in mind that its not perfect tho. If you can just defend one or two shots, you can get much closer to the character which allows you to pressure the character. I play anji, so this might be different for other charcters but just defending at least one shot will pretty much help gain the distance you need to attack HC.
You have to play against the character in a long set in order to figure this stuff out. Plus not everyone is DEB level of gaming.
I’m pretty sure in XCOM the devs admit that those probability numbers are straight up lies and in reality are skewed in favor of you hitting. Like a 60 percent is more like an 80.
Yeah, because it's based on players expectations. We see 60% and think, that it "should usually" hit, while technically this is true, practically 60% chance of success is low enough to be a real gamble. They explain it better, I have seen the interview as well. Long and short is they bump the numbers to match with players expectations rather than reality.
Same thing with all the little tricks devs do the empower players, they want the players intent to shine through, because it's more satisfying, fun and intuitive for the player.
Fuckin Arthritis meter lmao. Nother fire thumbnail.
I think a lot of new players (including past me) confuse "You just have to RPS and pray" with "You just have to actually learn when you're minus and you need to practice whiff punishing"
2S is really not that active. Kind of strange to consistently run into the late active frames of it.
Gotta love the stopgap attitude of some players. Yeah you just rush nago down, take the game to him they say. If you immediately post yourself up in midrange with nago youre playing it so, so, so wrong.
Its by far his strongest range where he'll catch your backdash, can 2hs you, fukyo in, and most importantly 2s into 2s into 2s.
Obviously he reason Happy Chaos has to be nerfed because he's a literal god-like being. They need to nerf his _lore,_ his smug aura is simply too strong. It mocks me.
I agree with the video. However for HC, it's just unfun.
HC was supposed to be the plus frame on block guy with his gun, now he is now leaning towards to be better Axl.
"Oh, you're trying to close the gap on roundstart? I'll just counterhit you and zone you"
"Oh, you'll wait for me to make my move? I'll just zone you"
I don't want a nerf, but a rework/rebalance towards his more pressuring capabilities and adjust his zoning ability