The idea of dosing more alk during the day when consumption is high makes sense. Many people dose more alk at night to assist in maintaining pH stability. It would have been really good to see your pH graph following the change. Though this makes sense logically, I’m not inclined to make such a change without knowing the net effect on pH.
excellent point - i just crunched the ph swing number and found no significant differences in Ph stability with consistent dosing vs. more day dosing. will do a fig on this for a little video but the stats are below: Residual standard error: 0.03596 on 19 degrees of freedom Multiple R-squared: 0.04266, Adjusted R-squared: -0.007731 F-statistic: 0.8466 on 1 and 19 DF, p-value: 0.3691
@@TheBioReef I decided to put this to the test. Over the last several weeks I have been slowly adjusting my alkalinity dosing to balance the daytime and nighttime dosing volume. My alk testing is automated via my Reefbot so I have been testing multiple times per day on a consistent schedule. I have observed that the small alk drop during the day does in fact seem to be less affected by reduction in dosing volume than from consumption (presumed) - the drop, as measured, remains the same as before and it does coincide with lighting schedule. The net effect on pH is essentially nil, not significant enough to be observable.
It was a educational experience. Although you didn't provided with the Alkalinity chat as before when you switched to more dosing in the day. Great video
Another great vid! I switched to DIY All-For-Reef 4 weeks ago in my PaleBlueDot reef and have observed my Alk is much more stabilized compared to 2 part. I am dosing throughout the day and am only seeing swings of about .15dkh during the day - checking 4x per day via Trident. I'll keep you updated on the progress. Nice to have 2 extra DOS pumps and getting Trace Elements! Cheers!
Great video! After I got my Alkatronic and saw the alkalinity swing during lights on, I started to dose more during day too to keep the swing as small as posible. Never did the math before about how munch I was dosing during lights on, let me tell you that after watching this I went and did the math and ironically Im dosing 67% right now during light on. So this is really a on point information!
Those visuals help so much. Thank you again. I have a wifi doser so it will be pretty easy to adjust. If stability is one of the most important factors in reef keeping I am confident this will improve coral health. Only one way to find out.
i do esv 2 part dosing for alk and ca. i keep my calcium at about 425 - 430 ppm... The ESV calcium supplement also has magnesium so i don't dose anything for Mg.
Awesome. What about dosing calcium I read calcium should be dosed on equal parts and should not be dosed together because of precipitation. I could find a solution to start the 2 part on my new reef. Currently I am running a KHG to control Alk and it has certainty improved the growth in mu tank. It doses approx 30 to 35 ml of Alkalinity depending the needs. Now I want to start doing two parts. Shall I dose calcium in nights or with a few minutes difference. Looking forward for an explanation or a video would be great addition to the above video.
Excellent video, very informative, how about just calcium hydroxide or calcium reactor? have tried them separately to see if there is a similar event with alk
Even when keeping alk cal and mag stable i cant keep any LPS or easy sps alive. I dont know if its due to the dinos i have but i do keep my phosphates at 0.08 and nitrates at 5ppm. Cant do water changes as fhat just makes dinos worse.
Thank for the info. I just took X amount of mins of dosing from lights off hours and moved them to lights on hours. I alternate cal and alk 24 hours a day. Alk is even hours and Cal is odd hours
Believe it or not I was thinking about this same situation and just recently made the change of dosing more Alk during photo period which substantially reduced the swings. Amazing how old theory was to dose Alk at night to keep Ph high doesn’t really help to keep Alk stable.
Ash's Reef cool! Yeah, the idea of dosing all at night is counter productive From a supply : demands perspective. Cheers and hoping you are keeping safe Ash!
Very helpful - I only dose Kalk during the day as I don't want the pump running at night - so it would help with Alk swings but make the pH swings worse - arrggghh. I also always tested Alk at night and then I tested in the day and found my Alk had really dropped - so I increased dosing and... of course... it jumped up 2 dKh over a 7 days - eeek Needless to say now I will be working on Alk stability for the next few weeks - thanks ;)
Weird as I have smaller fluctuation between day and night in ALK consumption(at or less than 0.1). I use GHL KH Director and the rest of the GHL gear for measurement and dosing.I have some LPS corals in the sump that get light in the night cycle so maybe that is the reason.
In theory, if you do a large number of tests, than your KH director can keep alk more stable. this video was meant for the folks who don't test that often or don't have a controller
@@TheBioReef did it happen to you that alkalinity consumption suddenly flattened after a change in Nitrate level ? I dosed Nitrate from 0-1 to 3-4 ml and I noticed my ALK consumption diminished by allot. First time I see such a drop in alk consumption.
Question. When testing and adjusting parameters I've only heard wait 10 min after adding part A before adding part B. Is this the only part we need to know or as low Mag and all. Was away from tank 3 months and when I tested water my Alk was real low near 2. So I started dosing to raise Alk. Level never got much higher. Then I read somewhere if Mag is low Alk will not raise. So I guess I'm asking about info as this. Best way to reset parameters. Thanks
Just wondering what effect would if it all would alkalinity make on zoas? my new mixed salt water is coming at 12. is this to high? for zoas or softies, acans, blassto other Lps , seem to be fine, only softies but mainly zoas seem to suffer? Thanks
What is the Alk of the tank… Alk at 12 seems really high for a softy and LPS tank. Also at that high Alk, you can have issues with calcium and magnesium balance. I would gradually reduce Alk to more reasonable levels (7 to 10 is a decent range)
@@bytime2762 there is a very helpful article about how to troubleshoot alk/ca balance, including info on reducing alkalinity here reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-solving-calcium-and-alkalinity-problems/
Sir your video is very fantastic..... How about I don't have dosing... Normal I dosing by hand.... Sir my tank is 170 Redsea I have SPS and LSP how many do I dosing sir..... My tank have 2 Hryd LEDs light and protein skim........
jluu saltwater aquarium with manually, I would just strive for consistency... you don’t want to drive yourself nuts trying to does different amounts in day vs night
Thank you so so so much for highlighting this very important subject, but please tell me did you see any good changes to corals after doing this. Because I saw your corals before you even make any chane, they were awesome. I hope one day someone does another experiment to sensitive SPS corals what is alkalinity swing that they can take.
Hi Hani - i didn't actually observe any difference in coral health (although it has been really short)...i am not entirely sure if reducing variability will benefit my tank that much, but if there is an easy way to achieve this, then why not
I don't have a calcium reactor so i can't provide explicit advice, but my understanding is that you can control the amount of effluent from your reactor, and if there is a way to supply more effluent during the day, then in theory you can do the same. Thanks Trevor!
David G hi David - several others have made similar comments here... not sure... my guess is that some species will be more tolerant of swings than others but I don’t think they striving for more stability will compromise health of tolerant corals
Great video! Makes me wonder about a couple things though. First, would primarily dosing during the day increase your daily ph swing? 2nd is less concrete, but would such stability perhaps make corals more fragile to changes in water chemistry
I don’t worry too much about the ph swing ... I didn’t see an obvious difference between ph swings when doing a consistent dose vs. more during the day... your second point is interesting... not sure... someone asked a similar question below - have a look at my response there
Bahaha, I just got a versa so I pulled this video back up to get an idea about dose scheduling. Came down to the comments, and was like hey this guy brings up somd good questions.. and then found it was my comment
would it be better to Dose Alk just in day say 11 hours lights on! and calcium at night till lights come on! im running my alk and calcium 24 hours a day at minute
no. dosing same volume of alk and ca with ESV leads to gradual increases in Ca over time to really high levels (450+). So i typically dose a little bit less Ca than Alk
@@TheBioReef thanks im struggling with stability with alk, im considering buying the triden to do more testing but i only have a 20 gallon the neptune apex will be more expensive than my entire set up 😅😅
@@JeanEstevez yeah i hear you. Also, 20 gallon is pretty small, and changes in water chemistry will happen fast given your smaller volume. So you issues may just be your tank size... you would need to test really often and dose many tiny amounts throughout the day to keep things stable...
As the CO2 levels rise at night and the PH sinks, isn't the rising KH at night buffering the PH swings and there for giving the more stable water parameters for the Corals?
@@TheBioReef I'm curious whether you noticed any consequence in your reef from the difference in swings. My guess is that you'd need more time to know. I would think that a drop in alkalinity would only be a problem if it got low enough to restrict the natural uptake. Me, I'd do the ANOVA in SAS or Stata. 🧐
skzion2 SAS eh! But r is free :) but no, I didn’t notice any difference in my tank although it’s only been 9 days. Not sure if there will be any positive consequence - it was just an exercise in reducing daily variation
Awesome nugget. I wonder how big the KH and pH swings are on the reefs in the ocean? They must experience some measurable swings, but I wonder if it's closer to what you've achieved or if it's more like a .5 KH/day. And that begs the question: does it matter? Maybe giving them better-than-ocean stability causes them to grow faster and healthier 🤷🏻♂️ Interesting topic!
Brady Hubbard thanks Brady... yeah I also don’t know if it really matters, but I think that the argument is that oceans show low variation and if we can mimic this, then it would make it easier on the corals
awesome video!! your mayogi tort, is that just a plain mayogi tort? Or is it a electric mayogi tort? i love your colony and this mayogi tort i bought at a swap is still brown and was curious what to expect in color...thanks again for the info!
HOMEGROWN REEFER thanks! I call my tort electric because of the colors, but I didn’t actually buy it as such... I got it mislabeled as a Cali blue tort, which it is not
Surely it doesn’t work if you calculate it that way? If your lights are on for 12 hours then would that formula mean you dose half in the day and half in the night?
Many thanks 🙏 my friend , I’m going to try 70% (18ml) in the day 12pm to 8pm (peak lights on ) and 30% (9ml) 10pm -10am lights off . And check every two hours 🤞😃👍🏴
I was under the impression that reverse lighting the sump/fuge helped reduce the daily pH swing making all this moot. Lights on the display go off, sump light goes on enabling photosynthesis of marco algae. My impression is that your sump is too small.
michael Conway there is certainly some truth to that but I think that is an issue that many reefers have... sump is smaller and fuge area is even smaller still. Have you seen a system where a reverse lit fuge can offset the typically Ph cycle ?
certainly - my tank has tolerated these swings for 3+ years now... but is there a benefit of reducing this variability ? i am not entirely sure myself, but if there is an easy way to achieve this, then why not
Yay, science and math!!!!
Gabes Reef Tamp yes sir!
@Aden Zain I don't care
@Kabir Larry nope
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
thanks!
The best, most informative video about dosing alkalinity for newbies. Cheers
Great Video! - Appreciate the science and math behind this vs. just theory and thought without statistical evidence - keep up the great work!
thanks!
The idea of dosing more alk during the day when consumption is high makes sense. Many people dose more alk at night to assist in maintaining pH stability. It would have been really good to see your pH graph following the change. Though this makes sense logically, I’m not inclined to make such a change without knowing the net effect on pH.
excellent point - i just crunched the ph swing number and found no significant differences in Ph stability with consistent dosing vs. more day dosing. will do a fig on this for a little video but the stats are below:
Residual standard error: 0.03596 on 19 degrees of freedom
Multiple R-squared: 0.04266, Adjusted R-squared: -0.007731
F-statistic: 0.8466 on 1 and 19 DF, p-value: 0.3691
@@TheBioReef I decided to put this to the test. Over the last several weeks I have been slowly adjusting my alkalinity dosing to balance the daytime and nighttime dosing volume. My alk testing is automated via my Reefbot so I have been testing multiple times per day on a consistent schedule. I have observed that the small alk drop during the day does in fact seem to be less affected by reduction in dosing volume than from consumption (presumed) - the drop, as measured, remains the same as before and it does coincide with lighting schedule. The net effect on pH is essentially nil, not significant enough to be observable.
arringar thanks for sharing!
@@arringar are you dosing 2 part? I wonder if this would be the case for kalk dosing, which is supposed to elevate ph
edit: the effect on ph*
I dose
Kalkat 3 am and typically my Ph will be 8. 0 ani will dose until it comes up to 8.3
Nice video love the work you put in to your videos
Carlos23 thanks Carlos!
It was a educational experience. Although you didn't provided with the Alkalinity chat as before when you switched to more dosing in the day.
Great video
Another great vid! I switched to DIY All-For-Reef 4 weeks ago in my PaleBlueDot reef and have observed my Alk is much more stabilized compared to 2 part. I am dosing throughout the day and am only seeing swings of about .15dkh during the day - checking 4x per day via Trident. I'll keep you updated on the progress. Nice to have 2 extra DOS pumps and getting Trace Elements! Cheers!
Nice!
awesome info, just changed my timer to do 2/3 of the dosing in the morning and 1/3 at night
aquaticNStuff thanks
Great video! After I got my Alkatronic and saw the alkalinity swing during lights on, I started to dose more during day too to keep the swing as small as posible. Never did the math before about how munch I was dosing during lights on, let me tell you that after watching this I went and did the math and ironically Im dosing 67% right now during light on. So this is really a on point information!
Rodny Reef great to hear, thanks Rodny
Those visuals help so much. Thank you again. I have a wifi doser so it will be pretty easy to adjust. If stability is one of the most important factors in reef keeping I am confident this will improve coral health. Only one way to find out.
Moes Nano Reefs thanks MOE!
I like this analysis very much - thank you :)
Thanks bongo!
I noticed this to on my tank. I run my Kalk reactor during the light cycle and run 2 part at night and everything stays very stable.
Nice
Thank you. Can you talk something about calcium and magnesium dosing too?
i do esv 2 part dosing for alk and ca. i keep my calcium at about 425 - 430 ppm... The ESV calcium supplement also has magnesium so i don't dose anything for Mg.
also, the rate of consumption of ca and mg do not drastically vary day and night so i just gradually dose these all day using my auto doser
Valuable information, thank you.
Josh Muldoon thanks Josh
Awesome. What about dosing calcium I read calcium should be dosed on equal parts and should not be dosed together because of precipitation.
I could find a solution to start the 2 part on my new reef. Currently I am running a KHG to control Alk and it has certainty improved the growth in mu tank. It doses approx 30 to 35 ml of Alkalinity depending the needs. Now I want to start doing two parts. Shall I dose calcium in nights or with a few minutes difference. Looking forward for an explanation or a video would be great addition to the above video.
I don’t worry to much about calcium as the levels are fairly stable through the day. Alkalinity swings the most out of all the core parameters
Excellent video, very informative, how about just calcium hydroxide or calcium reactor? have tried them separately to see if there is a similar event with alk
Yeah I have done kalkwasser (calcium hydroxide and you get less control). Never tried a calcium reactor before
@@TheBioReef Thanks nice,
Even when keeping alk cal and mag stable i cant keep any LPS or easy sps alive. I dont know if its due to the dinos i have but i do keep my phosphates at 0.08 and nitrates at 5ppm. Cant do water changes as fhat just makes dinos worse.
how old is your system Marcel ?
@@TheBioReef 10 months as of now.
Thank for the info. I just took X amount of mins of dosing from lights off hours and moved them to lights on hours. I alternate cal and alk 24 hours a day. Alk is even hours and Cal is odd hours
thanks for sharing your method
Believe it or not I was thinking about this same situation and just recently made the change of dosing more Alk during photo period which substantially reduced the swings. Amazing how old theory was to dose Alk at night to keep Ph high doesn’t really help to keep Alk stable.
Ash's Reef cool! Yeah, the idea of dosing all at night is counter productive From a supply : demands perspective. Cheers and hoping you are keeping safe Ash!
Very helpful - I only dose Kalk during the day as I don't want the pump running at night - so it would help with Alk swings but make the pH swings worse - arrggghh.
I also always tested Alk at night and then I tested in the day and found my Alk had really dropped - so I increased dosing and... of course... it jumped up 2 dKh over a 7 days - eeek
Needless to say now I will be working on Alk stability for the next few weeks - thanks ;)
Sunny Goold good luck Sunny
@@TheBioReef thanks mate :)
Weird as I have smaller fluctuation between day and night in ALK consumption(at or less than 0.1). I use GHL KH Director and the rest of the GHL gear for measurement and dosing.I have some LPS corals in the sump that get light in the night cycle so maybe that is the reason.
In theory, if you do a large number of tests, than your KH director can keep alk more stable. this video was meant for the folks who don't test that often or don't have a controller
@@TheBioReef did it happen to you that alkalinity consumption suddenly flattened after a change in Nitrate level ? I dosed Nitrate from 0-1 to 3-4 ml and I noticed my ALK consumption diminished by allot. First time I see such a drop in alk consumption.
How many doses do you actually have . And the Triton will communicate with the dosers to do the right dose that it needs correct.
That's a few used Neptune systems dosers and Triton
The DOS dose the logic of dosing. You just give it a volume and a time period and it will split the dose evenly... it typically does 4 doses per hour
How did this effect the PH?
I did the stats and nothing significant on the ph front
Question. When testing and adjusting parameters I've only heard wait 10 min after adding part A before adding part B. Is this the only part we need to know or as low Mag and all. Was away from tank 3 months and when I tested water my Alk was real low near 2. So I started dosing to raise Alk. Level never got much higher. Then I read somewhere if Mag is low Alk will not raise. So I guess I'm asking about info as this. Best way to reset parameters. Thanks
Sir, thank you for combining reefs and anovas :)
😂 I like my reed science
Just wondering what effect would if it all would alkalinity make on zoas? my new mixed salt water is coming at 12. is this to high? for zoas or softies, acans, blassto other Lps , seem to be fine, only softies but mainly zoas seem to suffer? Thanks
What is the Alk of the tank… Alk at 12 seems really high for a softy and LPS tank. Also at that high Alk, you can have issues with calcium and magnesium balance. I would gradually reduce Alk to more reasonable levels (7 to 10 is a decent range)
@@TheBioReef Thanks again, What do you find the best way to reduce alk?
@@bytime2762 there is a very helpful article about how to troubleshoot alk/ca balance, including info on reducing alkalinity here reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-solving-calcium-and-alkalinity-problems/
@@TheBioReef Nice , I'll give it a read, Thank You
Sir your video is very fantastic..... How about I don't have dosing... Normal I dosing by hand.... Sir my tank is 170 Redsea I have SPS and LSP how many do I dosing sir..... My tank have 2 Hryd LEDs light and protein skim........
jluu saltwater aquarium with manually, I would just strive for consistency... you don’t want to drive yourself nuts trying to does different amounts in day vs night
Thank you so so so much for highlighting this very important subject, but please tell me did you see any good changes to corals after doing this. Because I saw your corals before you even make any chane, they were awesome.
I hope one day someone does another experiment to sensitive SPS corals what is alkalinity swing that they can take.
Hi Hani - i didn't actually observe any difference in coral health (although it has been really short)...i am not entirely sure if reducing variability will benefit my tank that much, but if there is an easy way to achieve this, then why not
This method is only wen you dose 3 part with doser. And if you use an calcium reactor ?
Seveke's Reef Belgium if you had a paristolic pump that could be programmed then you could change it day and night .
I don't have a calcium reactor so i can't provide explicit advice, but my understanding is that you can control the amount of effluent from your reactor, and if there is a way to supply more effluent during the day, then in theory you can do the same. Thanks Trevor!
Would more stability compromise sps on their ability to adapt to swings of alkalinity? Something to think about. Great video!
David G hi David - several others have made similar comments here... not sure... my guess is that some species will be more tolerant of swings than others but I don’t think they striving for more stability will compromise health of tolerant corals
Great video! Makes me wonder about a couple things though. First, would primarily dosing during the day increase your daily ph swing? 2nd is less concrete, but would such stability perhaps make corals more fragile to changes in water chemistry
I don’t worry too much about the ph swing ... I didn’t see an obvious difference between ph swings when doing a consistent dose vs. more during the day... your second point is interesting... not sure... someone asked a similar question below - have a look at my response there
Bahaha, I just got a versa so I pulled this video back up to get an idea about dose scheduling. Came down to the comments, and was like hey this guy brings up somd good questions.. and then found it was my comment
would it be better to Dose Alk just in day say 11 hours lights on! and calcium at night till lights come on! im running my alk and calcium 24 hours a day at minute
i think there is still some alk consumption during the night
did you dose ALK AND CALCIUM IN THE SAME AMOUNT ?
no. dosing same volume of alk and ca with ESV leads to gradual increases in Ca over time to really high levels (450+). So i typically dose a little bit less Ca than Alk
@@TheBioReef thanks im struggling with stability with alk, im considering buying the triden to do more testing but i only have a 20 gallon the neptune apex will be more expensive than my entire set up 😅😅
@@JeanEstevez yeah i hear you. Also, 20 gallon is pretty small, and changes in water chemistry will happen fast given your smaller volume. So you issues may just be your tank size... you would need to test really often and dose many tiny amounts throughout the day to keep things stable...
As the CO2 levels rise at night and the PH sinks, isn't the rising KH at night buffering the PH swings and there for giving the more stable water parameters for the Corals?
Daniel Klein when I crunched the numbers I found no difference on ph when I did more Alk dosing in the day.
Im done with red sea. Going to tropic marine pro
Very interesting.
skzion2 thanks
@@TheBioReef I'm curious whether you noticed any consequence in your reef from the difference in swings. My guess is that you'd need more time to know.
I would think that a drop in alkalinity would only be a problem if it got low enough to restrict the natural uptake.
Me, I'd do the ANOVA in SAS or Stata. 🧐
skzion2 SAS eh! But r is free :) but no, I didn’t notice any difference in my tank although it’s only been 9 days. Not sure if there will be any positive consequence - it was just an exercise in reducing daily variation
Merci pour ta vidéo !!! 👍👍👍
thanks Guy
Awesome vid, u must have allot more time on ur hands with graphs etc, I’m signing u up with brs videos!,
thanks T... graphs don't take much time actually, the slowest part is the video editing
Awesome nugget. I wonder how big the KH and pH swings are on the reefs in the ocean? They must experience some measurable swings, but I wonder if it's closer to what you've achieved or if it's more like a .5 KH/day. And that begs the question: does it matter? Maybe giving them better-than-ocean stability causes them to grow faster and healthier 🤷🏻♂️ Interesting topic!
Brady Hubbard thanks Brady... yeah I also don’t know if it really matters, but I think that the argument is that oceans show low variation and if we can mimic this, then it would make it easier on the corals
Good info 👌👍👍
fellowreefer thank!
Great video! Would you know how to set this up on your apex with a DOS when the lights are not hooked up to your apex by any chance?
you can just set it manually by defining different dosing periods that correspond with your lights on / lights off cycle
How stable would it be if you dosed ONLY during the lights on?
Not sure... I think there are Alk uptake when lights are of
awesome video!! your mayogi tort, is that just a plain mayogi tort? Or is it a electric mayogi tort? i love your colony and this mayogi tort i bought at a swap is still brown and was curious what to expect in color...thanks again for the info!
HOMEGROWN REEFER thanks! I call my tort electric because of the colors, but I didn’t actually buy it as such... I got it mislabeled as a Cali blue tort, which it is not
how many times a day do you dose?
KrissReef my DOS determines the schedule, but effectively it doses little amounts every 5 or 10 mins
Ohh wow im dosing 12 times a day but i might start 24 times
KrissReef if your dose can handle small doses accurately, then try doing 24 vs 12, but once or twice an hour isn’t a big deal as well
AmroAzul TV im also running a dose but its kinda noisy
KrissReef yeah - not silent for sure
Surely it doesn’t work if you calculate it that way? If your lights are on for 12 hours then would that formula mean you dose half in the day and half in the night?
I keep at 11. Test hanna. On my 45. And 20
Many thanks 🙏 my friend , I’m going to try 70% (18ml) in the day 12pm to 8pm (peak lights on ) and 30% (9ml) 10pm -10am lights off . And check every two hours 🤞😃👍🏴
Good luck
Great tip thanks
RockLobster Reefing thanks Rock lobster
I was under the impression that reverse lighting the sump/fuge helped reduce the daily pH swing making all this moot. Lights on the display go off, sump light goes on enabling photosynthesis of marco algae. My impression is that your sump is too small.
michael Conway there is certainly some truth to that but I think that is an issue that many reefers have... sump is smaller and fuge area is even smaller still. Have you seen a system where a reverse lit fuge can offset the typically Ph cycle ?
Please, help me with your math...lol.
I have 120 gallon plus 20 gallon sump. Total water value 140. I really like your channel. Thanks
After months of watching youtube vids, why is it that I'm nodding my head to a powerpoint? lol 🤣🤣🤣
David Blackman :) because your brain is Hungry for substance and not just shiny clips of corals and fish
I don't think .5 dkh variability is much
certainly - my tank has tolerated these swings for 3+ years now... but is there a benefit of reducing this variability ? i am not entirely sure myself, but if there is an easy way to achieve this, then why not
Un this moment my alkaline go up and one pink Millepora is die
😀
Damn... I fell asleep