I started dosing Nitrate, Phosphate, Amino Acid in my reef tank!
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Typically the most frequently asked parameter of a reef tank is the level of Alkalinity; however, it has become apparent that the level of Nitrate and Phosphate also have a very direct impact of the corals' health! Today I want to show you my struggle with 0 Nitrate and 0 Phosphate, and how I determine what the proper levels for my aquarium are and how I raised them!
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Music by: DJ Quads
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Instagram: @inappropriatereefer
Email: inappropriatereefer@gmail.com
One note: I started out with Redfield Ratio in mind but ultimately decided to stick with parameters with a different ratio as they are working well with this system. Please research & experiment with different parameters that work with your system! If there is one take-away, it's that detectable Nitrate & Phosphate level worked very well in my system, the corals were apparently starving. 😉
Huge thanks to HobbySci for helping me make sense of all the math and demystifying a lot of the technical info. Please give his very informative channel a visit @ ruclips.net/channel/UCQF65rMt9owpFCcj9WMmBiQ
Inappropriate Reefer Glad I could contribute! I think it’s a good call to not pursue the red field ratio and picking something that works for you! Although the ratio is observed in certain ocean creatures like phytoplankton, our reef tank doesn’t even house these little guys! Also, our tests kits also only measure phosphate and nitrate. There are other forms of P and N in our tanks that are not being picked up in our test kits. At the end of the day, being attentive to the animals we keep in our tanks and trying to learn as much as we can is the key to success!
Just started reading about this and it seems the redfield ratio applies to carbon phos and nitrogen found in algae and cyano not what is in the water column, and in the case of cyanobacteria they can uptake nitrogen and carbon directly from the atmosphere so no link to what our test kits produce. Then take into account the margin of error in the test kits and narrow "yellow zone" in the graph from the website that was referenced it would make it pretty impossible to chase those numbers even if they were related to just nitrate and phosphate in the water.
@Inappropriate Reefer en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redfield_ratio is the ratio in PHYTOPLANKTON not water. It's the final product - if you ate phytoplancton that is the ration you would get of C:N:P elements. In it self says NOTHING about how an organism arrived at it therefore it's silly to chase these number.
@@TheDancing0wind Thank you for this clarification!!
Went and subscribed to his channel!
Thanks for the support! NO3 and PO4 will be back in stock next week b/c yall cleaned house :)
#FishofhexAquatics does these two products need to be refrigerated or no ?
I’m glad you had immediate results with dosing. I had the same issue with my nano so I upped feeding and got my levels back up and instantly the acans were super puffy. Good luck and thanks for uploading!
You got me all stressed out once those chem formulas popped on the screen 😅😅😅. Flash back to school 😂
Pop quiz! If you have 3 coral in your tank and a phosphorus measurement of 35ppb. How many gem tangs are available at your LFS?
HobbySci 😂
@@HobbySci shit
HobbySci subbed you. You have me freaking out lol.
Brian Culater thanks for the sub haha!
Glad you’re having some positive results! Excited for the future #150Gallons2020
Bulk reef supply has a whole video on the phosphate and phosphorus checker and why the phosphorus is the better one if you’re shooting for low range
Make sure the Phosphate Checker they're talking about is also the ULR one though (it's new)
@@InappropriateReefer Both checkers were the ULR models.
How he converted it was using stoichiometry and molar mass and a bunch of other factors I’m in grade 11 we just did our chem test on that it’s kinda tough to learn but once you get the hang of it is a easy conversion!
Uh huh....lol
Thanks for noting this! I think there is a big misconception about having healthy amounts of nutrients in a tank. My corals struggled until I started adjusting the balance of N03 and P04. Even doing everything else correctly... I was missing nutrient balance! My corals have never looked better. Also, I've noticed everyone will have a different balance. No one size fits all. Keep up the good work! Tank looks wonderful!
Tank looking great! Can’t imagine ever needing to dose No3 or PO4 .... Feed bit more, add few more fish, smaller water change until target reached? Although, can’t argue with Fish of Hex or your success, I just have better places for my moola 🥳🥳🥳🥳
I'm glad you're getting results so fast
The respond was very immediate, within a day or two a lot of the meatier corals puffed up; we are 5-6 weeks in and everything feels a lot more filled in. Can't wait to see how things look a few months down the road.
Tank is looking great dude!
I would suggest the red field ratio is not where to keep your water, but instead helps us understand how nutrients are removed by our animals. For example if you have nitrate at 15 and phosphates at zero, dosing phosphate can help reduce nitrate. As explained by the uptake of nutrients shown in the redield ratio.i dont think the ratio should be written off in the hobby, but rather be more thoughtfully explored so we can be more informed understanding the relationships in our systems.
Perfectly worded and agreed. Thank you Joshua!
Great video, and very important topic. Ratios are important to keep your aquarium running smoothly.
Redfield ratio doesn't work in the aquarium dr randy holmes explains this on reef2reef
I am really into this.
GREAT COVERAGE ON THIS HIGHLY IMPORTANT TOPIC.
I use Hanna Phosphorous checker and Hanna Phosphate....and cross check that I'm getting a true reading. If I get a 10 on the Phosphorous checker, I multiply that by 3.066 and then divide by 1000, and that gets me to my Phosphate level. (10 x 3.066 / 1000 = .03). When I run the Phosphate Checker....I will come up with a .03 reading...so both checkers seem spot on for me. I'm currently dealing with 6 year old tank, great filtration, spot on water parameters but getting little pops of cyano. Realized its my Nitrate/Phosphate levels. Currently levels is 5 on nitrates and 0 on phosphate. Just started slowing dosing NeoPhos to help boost phosphate levels to get to a Redfield ratio that my corals will like. All corals are thriving, color is good, just trying to dial things in a bit more. I fought high nitrate/phosphate for years when I started in the hobby years ago. Now because of great skimming, filtration and maintenance my Nitrate/Phosphate levels sit pretty low for a medium bio-load tank. I don't chase numbers, but I'd like to conquer these little pops of cyano/diatoms that show up. Thanks for the info.
Your tanks looking fantastic I'm going to try your numbers on my tank and see how it does excellent video man your buddy is Einstein for real😅😍😂
Thanks for this video. I have been trying to preach this for almost a year about nitrate and phosphate. IMO it is the most overlooked aspect of reef keeping and one of the biggest mistakes I made as a beginner. It seems almost everyone gets wrong information from their LFS to keep nitrate and phosphate as low as possible, guessing so newbies have less chance of algae outbreaks.? Alk, ca, and mg are easy to stabilize but the nutrients take some more skill and much more testing. Also the redfeild ratio might be correct for the ocean but is way too much for reef aquariums. I shoot more for 50:1 nitrate to phosphate at least. After dosing nitrate and phosphate in my tank for almost a year now, my corals have never been better and I can go on a lot more about what I have learned but I will stop here.
Moes Nano Reefs don’t stop there lol
I’m very interested in your logic’s
So do you upload videos on RUclips or just a expert with nutrients?
Moes Nano Reefs subbed you as well 👍👍
@@brianculater6444 I do youtube and run the ai prime/hydra reef group on facebook. I also own 3dreefing. I am way behind on my youtube though and will try to post another video in the next couple days. There is too much to explain in comments. Not really complicated but lots of points to cover.
Moes Nano Reefs ok I’ll find you on Facebook 👍
Thank you for replying back my friend 👍
I'm slowly advancing from beginner reefer to intermediate reefer! It's cool to learn stuff like this that have immediate impact to the animals. I would love to learn more about what you have to say too, maybe a future youtube video doing a deeper dive, as someone who has been down this road? (I've subbed!)
Hey man keep up the good work on the videos. also just wondering when there will be 10g update😀
Thanks man, I think maybe in 2 weeks; I secretly have a 20g Mangrove tank cycling right now, I may just move everything from the 10g to the 20g and will film something before breaking down the 10g!
Inappropriate Reefer sounds good👍🏽
Extreme closeup whoooooa
Awsome video! Great info !
Gr8 video, thanks
Im a older reefer I was taught to keep nitrate and phosphate down but first time even seeing people adding these to the tanks, confused, do the hex supplements keep these parameters at correct levels, thx
literally refreshed youtube for 1 hour cuz forgot what time u upload... and i have a different timeline
Thanks my man! Or... hit that Bell notification!
@@InappropriateReefer Sly
For some reason you forgetting the bread in the tank reminds me of when your bird pooped in your aquarium lol.
The Redfield ratio has been shown to hold no worthwhile benefit within the Aquarium, what keeps visible macro algae down on the reefs is relentless grazing pressure
Microbius Blue shown where to hold no benefit? The ratio and conversions are such a valuable tool for managing balance in natural ecosystems. This video did make me wonder if that data is obtained and reported daily and or just shoots for average values.
Yep. The ratio is for surface algae.
I wish I didn’t have to dose more stuff to my tank other than Alk,Cal and Mag and do water changes but I was struggling for more than a year since I setup my tank with Po4 and No3 at 000 I tried not doing water changes for 2 months and they were still at 000 so I started dosing using POTASSIUM NITRATE and MONOPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE from greenleafaquariums.com and the tank it’s doing great at 3 to 4 ppm nitrates and .1 to .2 phosphates and I dose them once a week since I don’t have a lot of corals at the moment but I know that will change after adding more corals. Great content bud 💯👍. If you mixed your own Po4 and No3 it’ll last you a long time I use 1 gallon jugs to mixed mine and 4 months since I started dosing I still have some left
what's the mixing ratio ? and how much do you dose? thanx
hobby_sci is the baster wizard!!! 👍
Calm looks good!!
It's very happy and has really put on size recently!
Congrats on another great vid. The euphylia is suffering from chemical warfare from the nearby leather. You should place it far from it and use carbon. You should also try the Tropic Marin no2/no3 test. I find it really precise. Now for aminos... I'm all into aquavitro fuel as it has helped me control the redfielld ratio by "lowering" my po4
You don’t have to refrigerate Acro power and you don’t have to turn your skimmer off
Thank you for the correction on AcroPower!
Ive been using the brightwell amino acids for a few months and have seen a huge turn around in my coral. I have a frogspawn coral that bleached out to the point i though it was only a matter of time before it died due to an extremely bad batch of salt. Since i started using this amino acid the coral has started to color back up and is looking better everyday.
I’d love to see a video about that beautiful ghi 2.0 set up
Teddy S I have some one my channel of me setting it up :)
HobbySci I found it! Lol
Fucking nailed it 10000000% I swear it just depends what number you want but same machine
I don't think the Hanna checkers are the same. I read a test (forgot the link) that the phosphorus checker is more accurate with lower levels of phosphate in the reef. And the phosphate checker was more accurate with higher levels. They had some pretty strong evidence after some tests.
Could it be a BRStv video? Be sure to double check the Phosphate checker being tested is the ULR one, it’s a newer version 👍
👌🏻 Almost time to change your name to appropriatereefer.
Don’t do it! Try not to forget he totally ditched the original plan to do the ratio and also had an instant five week gap in the same video. Keep it real IA - stay inappropriate 😎
@@chrish6659 hahaha 🤣
Hahaha I don't know man, not the way I'm throwing things at the wall and see what sticks!
Actually on a serious note - I’ve been following your latest ideas and I concur. I recently removed bio pellets and and also looking to run abit more nutrients. LPS and softies in a 125. Keep going! 😎
@@chrish6659 don't you have a big swing because of the removal
Redfield ratio is 16:1 so with NO3 @ 4 your PO4 should be .25. The math is to multiply your PO4 by 16 to get your NO3, or divide your NO3 by 16 to get your PO4. Also, ESV 2-part has trace included. I LOVE Red Sea's Reef Energy AB+ for the amino acids plus other coral needs.
Hanna phosphate make me crazy took 5 measurements same time and got 5 different readings between 0,04-0,12..
Try giving the fish a donut next time 😂
Got your YangGang Gear I see. Nice!
Love the vids
Great video 😎👍🏾
The Nyos nitrate test kit is very poor at low polhosphate level. I would highly recommend using Red Sea kit instead. I was over dosing nitrates and the Nyos kit was consistently underestimating the level.
0.22 PO4!!!! Yikes. I get nervous when mine goes above 0.08. I’m just a worry wart though.
Travis at Fishofhex is awesome. He responds to emails and has great corals. I bought several from him and a rbta that is doing awesome.
3:2
funniest part 😂
Hi , my tank now is 0.0 NO3 , check by Hanna , what should I do ? Thanks
Wait, did you really put of piece of white bread in your tank???
I though phosphates were suppose to be between 0.02-0.07?
How many people kept on trying to see the friends note thing
Try gc coral aminos. You don't have to shut off the skimmer
which hanna phospahte checker should i get? the ultra low range or the regular one ?
Redfield ratio describes plancton, not the ocean. It's not a guideline for healthy nutrients in the tank water. It's absolutely anecdotal! So a tank with 30 no3 should have 3.0 ppm po4? Not a good idea...
TattooedDancer91 This is correct. The reason for this discussion was mainly around some papers the surfaced that suggested keeping the RF ratio would decrease the likelihood of certain nuisance algae. I agree that no one should be keeping 3.0ppm PO4 in their tanks
TattooedDancer91 do you really think so? Limitations aside ie 30 is simply too high - yes, agreed - whenever my ratio is the wrong way around I do really struggle with nuisance algae (green or red) just as that table shown here suggests I would.
@@coraladdict5059 Do I really think so? Well yeah, otherwise I wouldn't say it. :D I don't understand if you have a question or not.
TattooedDancer91 I don’t see it that way, because it’s completely not anecdotal whatsoever. It’s been extensively utilised tool covered in numerous peer reviewed scientific publications. A simple google scholar search clearly shows it is a very commonly used method used in ecosystem management to control all kinds of blooms in natural waterways, and extremely effective in providing a better understanding of how to formulate appropriate management strategies. To apply that same logic to managing excessive imbalances ie nuisance blooms in “closed” ecosystems such as aquaria is - in my opinion - an exceptionally novel and appropriate approach backed by a plethora of scientific data.
@@coraladdict5059 No it's not? We're talking about coral here and the water corals live in. Redfield ratio describes the CNP balance in phytoplankton, i.e. algae. The ratio shows, that in average, the plankton utilise those chemicals in that ratio. If you want to kill the algae, or have some control over them, you can imbalance that ratio by lowering one of the three. Anything above the ratio will also give growth. Other organisms have their own ratio's. So if you want to grow phytplankton, sure aim for redfield ratio and having 16 no3 and 1 po4 ppm, will give great results. But NOT in your corals. The issue gets more complicated if we talk about, what happens to the phytoplankton? Since the tanks arent green and cloudy, something eats the phytoplankton. i.e. zooplankton mostly. Copepods have a CNP of 129:25:1, mysis is 84:18:1. What's their byproduct? CNP in a ratio NOT in the redfield through waste products, because it's not linear. Corals have 166:37:1, so if we want to grow corals, why the hell are we talking redfield? Because it's anecdotal, and doesn't describe the end product. If you want to grow algae, go ahead and use redfield. Your tank will look green, especially if you use the ratio with phosphates above 1ppm. :) (english is my second language, if any parts aren't cohesive and concise point them out and I'll elaborate)
I have a 12 gallon lps and soft coral nano and always have phospate and nitrate and evrything looks great. When tried to lower these corals did not liked that at all
InappropriateReefer do you refrigerate your P04 and P03 from fishofhex ?
My ammonia up to 0.25 how do you do to get ammonia down 0.00
I dose amino acids about every 1-2 days, but I also have a question where did you get your zoanthids?
I got all of mine from local frag swaps and other reefers!
I have read alot of differing opinions on the Redfield Ratio.
I have a balance problem in my LPS/Softy tank when it comes to Nitrates and Phosphates. I like to keep my Nitrates between 5-10 on that tank but Phosphate tests zero in that tank. I would like it to be more around .07 and in that tank, Phosphate does not read until the Nitrates are around 20 ppm. If I let my Nitrates get that high, algae blooms like crazy which is why I don't let my Nitrates get above 10. My tank has been running at zero Phosphate because of this. I did not know they have Phosphate that you could dose. Do you know of other brands than what you purchased?
Also, compounding the issue is that Phosphate readings can apparently always be wrong because algae can suck up Phosphate quickly giving you false zero readings. That is what I have been told by many experienced reefers. Me being me, I ask, why test it than? I mean, if it can't be trusted, why do it? I have never gotten a answer to that question.
Going even further, the Ecotech lighting guide says that WWC uses the AB+ spectrum and that they run zero Nitrate and zero Phosphate tanks. I have been told this is bad to do by many experienced reefers yet World Wide Corals is doing it everyday. And they are not the only experienced reefers who say they do so. Others say it is terrible to do. So you can see the major contradictions you get in this hobby and it comes from the inexperienced all the way up to the most experienced reefers. And it is all confusing to the newer hobbyist.
Hey Travis, thank you for taking the time to leave this comment, let's see if we could tackle some of the points!
Yes! One of the worries about simply adding more food is that it does not just add Phosphate, it also add Nitrate; in this case I think simply dosing Phosphate would make sense (assuming you already tried dialing back photo period of your refugium?); as to Phosphate to dose, I use the FishofHex brand, if you are asking for other brand, I know the Brightwell one is popular as well.
Also valid of Phosphate measuring 0, that was my thinking before as well. But the point is when Phosphate is 0, we don't know if it's the algae or corals that used up all the Phosphate, it could be algae used up all the Phosphate and left the corals starving for more. So in this case, we make sure there is a trace amount so we are not overdoing it but made sure the corals uptook as much as they needed, that's why there is left-over.
Finally, I just checked in with an awesome WWC employee on their Nitrate & Phosphate value, he said that not all the tanks are the same (makes sense), but their displays are sitting at Nitrate of 15 and Phosphate of under 1, so we can take that as a data point as well.
Hope this is helpful!
@@InappropriateReefer Thank you so much for this info!
The info I got on the tanks at WWC was published in that Ecotech lighting guide. It can be looked up by anyone right now. I am only saying that because I don't want anyone thinking I made that up. That came straight from something they published.
@@InappropriateReefer I apologize about saying it was WWC that ran that, it was actually Ecotechs' coral lab that runs their tanks like that.
@@lonestarpatriot876 Got it, thank you for the information! Just to shows that there are lots of different ways to successfully run our reef tanks!
So...in the end we are not using the Redfield ratio?! Confused Reefer lol
Sorry for the confusion, yes, not using the Redfield Ratio
Why not just feed the fish, tank. Start low, measure the amount. Monitor the change in nitrate and phosphate every 3-5 days, increase then decrease.
What’s to point to then use nitrate solution, phosphate solution?
Great suggestion, I tried feeding fish more aggressively but the Nitrate & Phosphate simply did not budge - my refugium was too much of a beast and I don't have any new fish in mind that I would like to add to the tank at the moment. I have also tried decreasing the photo-period of the refugium to what I was comfortable with; ultimately giving an extra dose of NO3 & PO4 achieved the levels for me!
Inappropriate Reefer do you still run the refugium then?
This video is VERY interesting and now I’m hesitating on building my refugium?
@@brianculater6444 I still run the refugium almost as normal (just less photo-period); I'm sure without the refugium my nutrients would go sky rocket right away! I know some people even put their skimmer on a timer so it's not skimming consistently, but that felt too unpredictable for me so I just opted to dose NO3 & PO4.
Is it .4 or .04 Po4?
Hey IR, So you have me inspired me to begin the hobby,im starting off with a 15g rectangular aquarium, i am going with your ac70 filter/refugium setup. My main question i have while i am gathering the equipment is which light to opt for? The aqua knight would cost me $100 while the ai prime would cost $250... Really stuck here and want to make the right choice. Vids are great too love your passion even when you are off camera your voice tells it all. Reef Dreamer out
I hope you don’t mind me responding, but I’ve used both of these and am now using the Prime. The Aquaknight is a good light but it was a PITA to turn on and off unless you use it on a timer. And adjusting the light levels was fiddly and inconvenient. So if you don’t mind setting it at one specific level and plan to use a timer, it’s great value for money. If you want the ability to automatically ramp the light values, using an app and wifi, the Prime is great value for the features it has.
I started with the Aquaknight and my patience ran out in about 3 months. I sold it for $40 so those 3 months cost me $60 and I ended up buying the Prime in the end (there was another light in between but the less said about that, the better 😡).
I hope this helps, and whatever you decide, good luck! 👍🏻
@@Reefgrrl thanks for taking the time, think I will just go for the ai prime since the light is most important for growth I believe. Any other words of wisdom for a 15gallon?
New development guy is selling ai hydra and throwing in aquatic rodi unit for free with some life rock at half price? total my currency 4500. if i bought the prime, rock and rodi unit thats around 4000... do i take the hydra?
I had a 20 long with a 15G sump and my biggest mistakes were putting rocks too close to the glass (couldn’t clean the glass in some spots) and underestimating how big certain corals would get. 😁 I had lots of warfare in that setup.... There’s a playlist on my channel if you’re interested, that covers the system from the start (but please excuse the video quality - I’ve learned a lot since then!). 👍🏻👍🏻
The spread on the Hydra will be much greater than the Prime, and I think everyone who has ever had a reef tank will say to get the Hydra, with future upgrades in mind....🤔 It’ll save you buying a new light at that point. Nice thing is that you can control the intensity so you don’t fry your corals. They’re really powerful lights. 🤷♀️
I'd be interested in the aneneme, I don't believe I live too far from you so i could potentially pick it up from you.
I’ve been selling them for $60 each, just shoot me an email at inappropriatereefer@gmail.com if you want it! 👍
Hi man, I watch you video every time, but not understanding everything, can you tell me good parameters nitrate and phosphate, hi in from Russia 😊
I'd love to see the math on how much his dosing system cost :)
That's not entirely accurate. If you are measuring phosphorus, that does not not mean you are reading only Phosphate bonds. It may be measuring other molecules that contain phosphorus. Either way. That's cool.
My Asian brother 😂😂
Anyone know the name of the anemone he has here. I really like the look of it
rose bubble tip
Oh no. I'm back at school!
What about Iron?
People may want to check out ruclips.net/video/6SFMWRG0fRM/видео.html as well if they are interested in the two different hanna checkers.
I think .02-.05 phosphate not .2-.5
0,4 would be very high I doubt all acroporas would survive, in sea water they are near not detectable
I just got schooled and I still don't know jack
Yang Gang!?!?!?
XD in a few weeks: nutrient-levels are over the top -and i dont know why...🤣🤣🤣
0.1 did you take into account 0.04 tolerance plus your 5% I use a phosphorus ulr and do the conversation with the Hanna chart ppb to ppm it's more accurate
SECOND.
DO a Calcium Reactor!!!!!!
$$$ 😭
Bought mine from a buddy used for about $200
😬sorry I know its hard specially with a new baby and a lot of new things it gets crazy!!!!
Any thoughts on the Red Sea reef energy coral nutrition 2 part? I’ll trade you an afternoon of handy work for that nem!
Sorry I have not used the RS Energy Coral Nutrition 2 parts, so can't really comment...! Where were you when I was building the 150g stand, lol
In Philly, you never called! Lol
i thought it was .03-.05 ppm everyone was reaching for?!?!?!
0.2 phosphate!? Yeah, if you wanna start an algae farm.
i thought being asian would give me an advantage to understand this. ill just stick with waterchanges.
😂
#reefsquad
#HARDCOREREEFSQUAD
Yangang 😂
no he didn't lol.
Every friggen video on this never shows what you use all I want to know is the damn bottle to buy
Hahahaha ofcourse Asians and mathematic
Tank is looking great dude!
Tank is looking great dude!