On the full take-back, as you bring the racquet up to the trophy position you keep it pointing to the side like Federer. It’s not quite the same as when you demonstrate before doing an actual serve. In the demonstration you have it with strings facing the side fence. Do you not recommend that way because of the possibility of opening up the racquet face?
When I get my ATP point at age 60, I’m gonna thank you in person. The serve has been my Achilles tendon and I’m just starting to figure it out thanks to you. THANK YOU 🙏
luckily this fairly old video ended up in my youtube-feed, have mostly tried to use abbreviated backswing and struggled with shallow racquet drop. decided to experiment with full backswing, and at least for me, it helped a great deal, feels like the momentum of the racquet will automatically take it deeper, many thanks for this insightful and informative contribution 👍
I serve with a abbreviated backswing. I get power as long as my motion is fluid and I whip the raquet. Thank you for breaking down each serve and highlighting the fact that everyone is different and you have to find the one that compliments your own game.
I didn't pay attention to all of those variations of the service technics. Recently I injured my shoulder and I found out so many details about the serv. Yours explanations are very academic and useful.
Thanks for the lesson, Nick!! I really enjoy the your way of teaching! I used to serve with a full back swing, but due to tennis elbow issues I now do it in a little more compact way, somewhere in between the semi-abbreviated and the Abbreviated.
This is a fantastic lesson which many other channels out there never covered. The racket take back has been my pain point for a long time and this video is going to do wonders. Can't thank you enough for this and other videos. It would be really helpful if you can make one video on ball hitting technique during serve.
Naga, thank you. I will cover flat, kick and slice serves in the near future. I will do these in 3 separate videos, because there are vast differences in mechanics when attempting each of these serves.
I feel your pain man. I honestly have found that merely thinking about the take back ruins my serve. I typically only get my timing back when I think... Loose wrist and hit the ball. But man there are some days one take back feels great and other days it just goes off.
@@Dubinski2382 Have you tried thinking "swing the racket from right to left, in one motion, starting with bending the elbow"? That made wonders for me... And by right to left its the court right to left, not the body
I used to have full backswing (without knowing) and no matter how hard i tried, i always open up the racket face at trophy position. So i tried semi-abbreviated backswing and fixed the problem!. wish i seen this video earlier..
Thanks Nick! Excellent instruction. I really liked the parts, where you explained the loop holes of each different take-back. I have a student doing full take-back, and he supinate too early while going up ending up having a racket loop at or above his shoulder line instead of a drop. Then it is really a struggle to get the face into correct orientation at impact. I think the early supination is an issue, which is hardly ever covered and cripples all types of take-backs. Ok, there are some instructions, where you try to avoid racket opening up early going up, but the culprit is often not revealed, yet it totally kills the momentum going into the drop loop and enable the racket drop become both deep and effective turning the frame edge up before getting up. Yet you dropped "properly" with allready supinated wrist the rest would be close to waiters tray anyway, cause the racket momentum would restrict the rest of the desired movement and defenately by the mental image of hitting with the strings would cancel the possibility to use internal shoulder rotation close to contact.
I really like how you provide options for each shot and discuss the pros and cons. It is amazing to me how some instructors have such little knowledge as to the benefits and weaknesses of various styles of play. Ideally an instructor could identify why some players prefer a particular approach (ie a shorter player can get more leg drive or a serve and volley player can get into the court faster). Thanks for your hard work!
Very insightful video!! I just realized that I tend to snap my wrist open in the full backswing of my serve, this isn't allowing me to serve properly. Thank you for always uploading great content!!
Very few talk about the racket take back during the serve. I was getting confused with the pat dog method since I was used to the first method you described. The only thing I was doing wrong was the forehand grip and waiter serve. Now I am practising the pronation serve and your utube explaining the different styles of take back has really helped.A big thanks I am an ITF player and tennis coach.
Very helpful I have started using the abbreviated take back to help pronation and consistency like your observation that one can change from the abbreviated when the action is grooved I will do that and see how it goes when I am ready. Thanks
Again... the best and the most objective analysis of all three options. For Rodick style the more stress should probably be on the shoulders turn and the explosive legs drive, but true it's not for everybody
Great video Nick, At 2.36 you describe recreational players snapping the wrist open on take back. That is precisely what I do and the end result is a more limited racket drop. It's a very engrained habit (25yrs!). Im trying lots of shadow swings to try to correct it. Anything else you can recommend?
Great demonstration. One comment about the abbreviated backswing - Andy Roddick bends his knees extremely low and gets an extreme twist in his torso to make up for the loss of backswing power. That would be one thing to mention for why this worked so well for him.
After failing so many times at using parallel arms to toss the ball and full back swing to bring back the racquet, I guess I need to try something else. so frustrated... As always, great video ! Thank you so much !
This is excellent! I've intuitively (excuse the pun) understood these differences through my own experimentation on my serve, but it's so nice to see them laid out this clearly. This, together with your racket drop explanation, gives a great overview of overall service motions of the swing arm. But question for you: is the semi-abbreviated take back (which is more parallel to the baseline) naturally set you up for the kick serve better than the full take back (which is more perpendicular to the baseline)? I ask because as the kick serve motion itself is more parallel to the baseline, is it better to have a take back that matches the swing path's linear plane?
Andrew, Thank you 🙏 I don’t recommend having different take-backs for different serves. There is a reason why you don’t see that on tour. The entire service motion needs to be repeatable, so that one day players can execute it without thinking about it. Not only can having different technical characteristics for different serves be easily read by the opponent, but it can also be harmful in trying to develop a service motion that should eventually be automatic. And to answer your question about the kicker. There are some great kick serves on tour with the semi abbreviated style: Isner, Sock, Kachanov. However, the best kick serve in the world IMHO (Thiem) has a full take back. So I do not think there is much of a correlation there.
Thanks for the great video Nick. Could you demonstrate more on semi abbreviated, I could tell the difference between the the lag one and up together one. I am struggling coordinating my legs and swing.
Hi Coach great insights, I may not have liked too much because I have perfected the abbreviated swing and it is working for me, feel there is less room for glitches and basic errors, I may give a shot soon to the semi abbreviated swing, since you are more in favor of it. One thing I missed from your analysis regarding the abbreviated swing is the South Americans, specially Argentine players, a lot of them used it and perfected it for decades, Zabaleta, Chela, Canas, and currently Delbonis has a very powerful and strong abbreviated one. Also Fernando Gonzalzez on top of my head....
Hi Roberto, thank you. As I said in the video, abbreviated works great for some players and if it’s working for you keep doing it. However, some of greatest South American players of all time use the lag (Vilas, Sabatini, Nalbandian, Kuerten and DelPotro).
For the Roddick serve he actually uses elastic potential energy rather than momentum. He bends his knees and moves the elbow back and down (like a bow and arrow) as he tosses and twists his hips and then uncoils as he launches at the ball. I think this worked well for him because he was a lot stronger in his shoulders and upper body than most tennis players. When you have larger than average upper body muscles from other sports they don't get used as much in tennis and so they become more prone to tightness. I have experienced this and it makes getting loose when playing very hard. That weakness can also be used as a strength however if you can somehow tap into the muscles and their inherent tension. I think what Andy did was simply pull his bicept muscle back as an additional torque lever as the last stage of his uncoiling of his core (which every serve motion does). His narrow base and quick motion allowed his stretched chest muscle to whip his arm up at the last moment before pronation and ball contact. I've tried this and it works if you can cut down the time from toss to contact to a minimum. All this said...perhaps recommend this motion for players who have a stronger upper body and/or are coming from other more quick burst motion sports (like baseball or football or basketball). It's very hard to be smooth when stationary if you are used to making a quick first step. I struggle with this and a abbreviated serve release really worked...at least for a hard first serve. Still not sold its a good motion generally but perhaps a helpful way to recommend for players choosing among the options.
JD G, yes of course. A small number of players will find more comfort with this style. I have a 11 yo high level girl who serves with this style. She gets by far the most power this way. Everyone is different. However, in my experience this is a 1 out of a hundred situation if that. Rare
First, I'm just getting to know your channel, very well explained and great content! Secondly, My wrist has the tendency to open up like you mention at 6:03, is there any specific practice to reinforce it to not do that?
Akbar, try bending the wrist Djokovic/Raonic style, however it might not resolve the problem completely. It depends on the way you take your racquet up.
@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks for the tip! I have a semi abbreviate take back, but for some reason I think out of bad habit it, my wrist falls open. Will try the wrist style at my next hit session
I've tried Full and Abbreviated over my long career (😩). Abbreviated gives more control and a quick rhythm IMO but requires a lot of strength to achieve high r-head speed. Roddick has both I think?
Hi Nick, how much tension should be applied on the grip? I strugle to accelerate the racket and thought perhaps I wasn´t gripping strong enough: Thank you.
There's another really obscure take back that, for example, Caroline Garcia uses. The serving arm is set up high, then the toss, racquet drop etc happen after that. For beginners, that might be the easiest way. And it's not really that bad, it does the job.
Satyu, the takeback is indipendent from the rhythm. Garcia has an abbreviated take back like Roddick. The sequencing of the left and right side is different.
Excellent video Nik! I filmed myself serving and what I see is that I have full takeback and have the problem you mentioned, I flip my wrist, open the racket, and what I see I dont reach thropy position at all. I tried to moved to semiabbreviated, but it s not working. How to correct this flip of the wrist what you mentioned for full takeback?
Stjepan, it's a complex issue depending on various factors, but definitely correctable. I can't give specific advice wo seeing the serve, but one thing I can tell you is that it takes time and is not something you can correct in 5 minutes.
I’m going to give you an unusual compliment so please don’t take it as an insult in disguise. Your videos all have GREAT AUDIO. I watch a lot of tennis instructional videos and you’d be amazed how many times you just can’t hear what the instructor is saying! If you wanted some constructive criticism, I could say your lighting is a bit harsh, but that’s a necessary evil as you record outdoors. It does make you come off a little stern, which you don’t actually seem to be at all. I suppose you could wear a hat or sunglasses, which depending on your choices, will either make you look cool or really, really dorky... Now I AM being insulting, my apologies!😉. Let me try to save face by saying that I like your channel a lot, you have a deep knowledge of tennis technique and explain it well. And like others have said, you pair that with practical application of each method’s advantages and disadvantages, something that other instructors seem to miss. (?!) Thank you for all your hard work, best of luck growing your channel. You’re one of the good guys, Nik!!
Rremguy, that is great advice thank you. Yes lighting is a big problem when recording in south Florida. It’s something that I’m trying to get better at.
Do you think the full take back could help balance against the tossing arm, and provide a more consistent toss? It kind of seems like this is what Federer does.
Any recommendations for someone recovering from shoulder surgery? I’ve been trying to find the right style with a more limited range of motion. I’m doing an abbreviated backswing right now. Most of the stress on the shoulder is felt when I’m moving upwards and my racquet is still behind me, pointing downwards.
I've been watching some videos of women's ncaa division 1 college players in the US, and I've noticed many of them use the abbreviated backswing. I was raised in the 1990s only with the full backswing and platform stance, so it's helpful to understand the differences. Thanks! PS- didn't Agassi use the abbreviated backswing on his second serve for awhile?
Hi, what about pronation of the forearm after the racquet and ball meet on the serve, do you think it is necessary, if so can you do a video on it. What I mean by pronation is the racquet hand palm faces outward during the racquet follow through.
I believe that for taller players like myself (194cm) the abbreviated take back like Berdych or Roddick has some advantages, because the tossing arm is easier to coordinate. One can achieve that as well with a lag of the hitting arm, but then I tend to get in trouble with timing (rush). The longer the extremities the more torque is being creating which has to be tamed and coordinated. As a recreational player you only have a limited time to practice so I think it’s reasonable to maximize the likelihood of achieving good quality rather than unlocking all potential sources to build momentum.
Marcel, the abbreviated style works well for some players. Some of my students use it. However, the is no correlation between height and the style of the backswing/toss. The vast majority of tall players serve with a full lag. V Williams, Pliskova sisters, Muguruza, k Karlovic, Zverev, Medvedev etc. The style of backswing/toss is dependent on several factors and it’s highly highly individualistic
@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks for your quick response. I agree that the majority of the Top 100 uses a full takeback and especially your last sentence is true. That being said, I do not think that the Top 100(0) are a good reference group for the average amateur player in terms of representation of playing styles being an indicator for which style oneself should use. On a good amateur level, which for me is LK5 and better in the German system (~5.5 NTRP), I do believe to see a correlation between height and shortness of the takeback. I might be wrong, but I think my theory is plausible. On that level I even noticed a couple of players serving high speed with the Delbonis technique. On the professional level, Dimitrov once served several doublefaults and suddenly started serving in Delbonis style. You are right, rhythm seems more natural when you see Roger's full takeback, but the more simplified a motion is the less can go wrong and consistency is more important for a serve than speed I think.
Marcel, I specialize in recreational adult tennis and the vast majority of my students benefit from the swing momentum generated from a full takeback and a lag. Some will find the abbreviated style easier to execute, however most will struggle with power. The top 100 men and women are a good reference in finding the optimal technique which in my teaching methodology is what every player should aspire to achieve regardless of playing level.
Intuitive Tennis I am certain you are a good coach and if most of your students profit more from the full take back that is perfect. What I was saying is that a certain style is not superior to another just because it is overly represented in the Top 100. I’ve been struggling with my serve for years due to inconsistency of my ball toss despite having tried multiple techniques (the variance of serve quality resembles Zverev’s), this is why I thought the abbreviated motion might be something to give a try.
Doesn't the abbreviated allow you to start faster core rotation (arms are tucked closer for longer), thus increasing rotation speed? My understanding is that a full swing slows down your core rotation and makes the contact slower. Andy Roddick as a short guy and you can only muscle a ball so fast. The fact that Roddick is the only great server at that level tells me that being taller seems more important a factor in speed than the take back. Makes me want to see a tall player with an abbreviated swing take a crack at it. Will experiment later and report back.
This is very good video. But what about the wrist? Do you have a video that shows correct form for the wrist, to avoid wrist injuries? Clearly I write this comment because I experience a lot of wrist pains when practicing serve. Especially when I just start practicing the serve I seem to be twisting my wrist to cause the pain.
Dmitry, thank you These take-back techniques can help the wrist to be in the proper position before accelerating. The wrist pain is most likely in the acceleration and contact/finish phase of the serve. To pinpoint what is causing this pain is impossible to say wo seeing the serve. In the meantime this might help. ruclips.net/video/0mrat6fpa8k/видео.html
Podia, none! Completely different mechanics on those two strokes. The only similarity is that it’s hit on the stronger (dominant) side of the body, therefore some players will have a huge serve and forehand, but this is not always the case, especially on old school players and most WTA.
Intuitive Tennis Thanks Nick. Perhaps you can do a video on this. I strongly suspect many players mix up their mechanics (mixing oil and water) between these two strokes. I’ve even heard coaches say the modern FH is now similar to the serve.
@@IntuitiveTennis Interesting thoughts and the reference to Raonic is very astute. In fact, it seems many of the great servers had mediocre FHs relative to their serve, Sampras being another example, Andy Roddick, Roscoe Tanner and Kevin Curran also. You're on to something here, there are different forces at play, but I think it's more related to the upper body joint sequences and contractions between the two strokes. Both have been compared to throwing motions. Federer seems to be unique in that he has great mechanics in both, they are balanced strengths, he's good superb neuromuscular control compared to his peers. Nadals' FH is clearly better than his serve.
Podia, I agree it’s absolutely related to the upper body. Best serve forehand combos in my opinion are Boris Becker and Isner (underrated forehand), but like you said many huge forehands with relatively weak serves and vice versa. Tennis is a complex game.
So of the Top 20 best servers of all time only 1 used an abbreviated take back, and your contention is that it lacks power? Funny that the 9 out of the top 10 FASTEST servers of all time all have an abbreviated or semi-abbreviated take back.
Only 2 out of top 10 fastest serves have an abbreviated style (roddick, groth) On the top 10 fastest women’s serves it’s zero As stated in the video it works for some, but for most players it does not and results in a loss of power.
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I can't get good timing with a racket drop
Noel, this has to do with your rhythm and relationship between your toss arm and racquet arm. Will cover these topics in future.
What do you think about Jack Sock takeback on the serve?
Hai, semi abbreviated lag similar to lisicki. This style works well and is easily adaptable.
On the full take-back, as you bring the racquet up to the trophy position you keep it pointing to the side like Federer. It’s not quite the same as when you demonstrate before doing an actual serve. In the demonstration you have it with strings facing the side fence. Do you not recommend that way because of the possibility of opening up the racquet face?
When I get my ATP point at age 60, I’m gonna thank you in person. The serve has been my Achilles tendon and I’m just starting to figure it out thanks to you. THANK YOU 🙏
luckily this fairly old video ended up in my youtube-feed, have mostly tried to use abbreviated backswing and struggled with shallow racquet drop. decided to experiment with full backswing, and at least for me, it helped a great deal, feels like the momentum of the racquet will automatically take it deeper, many thanks for this insightful and informative contribution 👍
I serve with a abbreviated backswing. I get power as long as my motion is fluid and I whip the raquet. Thank you for breaking down each serve and highlighting the fact that everyone is different and you have to find the one that compliments your own game.
Superior knowledge and explanation of the different take backs for the serve! Excellent video...as always.
Don, 🙏
Amazing that you can do all nicely. Thank you so much.
Lingua, my pleasure 🙏🙏
You are touching a very important element of tennis serve, which is often overlooked. Thank you!
Antonio, 🙏
Thank you so much for your creativity in helping those who like to find their own style of service.
Sincerely!
It's my pleasure
I didn't pay attention to all of those variations of the service technics. Recently I injured my shoulder and I found out so many details about the serv. Yours explanations are very academic and useful.
Thank you Predrag 🙏
Thanks for the lesson, Nick!! I really enjoy the your way of teaching!
I used to serve with a full back swing, but due to tennis elbow issues I now do it in a little more compact way, somewhere in between the semi-abbreviated and the Abbreviated.
This is a fantastic lesson which many other channels out there never covered. The racket take back has been my pain point for a long time and this video is going to do wonders. Can't thank you enough for this and other videos. It would be really helpful if you can make one video on ball hitting technique during serve.
Naga, thank you. I will cover flat, kick and slice serves in the near future. I will do these in 3 separate videos, because there are vast differences in mechanics when attempting each of these serves.
@@IntuitiveTennis Thank you very much. Really looking forward to those videos !
I feel your pain man. I honestly have found that merely thinking about the take back ruins my serve. I typically only get my timing back when I think... Loose wrist and hit the ball. But man there are some days one take back feels great and other days it just goes off.
@@Dubinski2382 Have you tried thinking "swing the racket from right to left, in one motion, starting with bending the elbow"? That made wonders for me...
And by right to left its the court right to left, not the body
I used to have full backswing (without knowing) and no matter how hard i tried, i always open up the racket face at trophy position. So i tried semi-abbreviated backswing and fixed the problem!. wish i seen this video earlier..
Excellent explanation of the take back options in serve for aspiring players looking to experiment and see what is best for him/her!
Vythinathan, glad you liked it. 👍
Thanks Nick!
Excellent instruction. I really liked the parts, where you explained the loop holes of each different take-back. I have a student doing full take-back, and he supinate too early while going up ending up having a racket loop at or above his shoulder line instead of a drop. Then it is really a struggle to get the face into correct orientation at impact.
I think the early supination is an issue, which is hardly ever covered and cripples all types of take-backs. Ok, there are some instructions, where you try to avoid racket opening up early going up, but the culprit is often not revealed, yet it totally kills the momentum going into the drop loop and enable the racket drop become both deep and effective turning the frame edge up before getting up.
Yet you dropped "properly" with allready supinated wrist the rest would be close to waiters tray anyway, cause the racket momentum would restrict the rest of the desired movement and defenately by the mental image of hitting with the strings would cancel the possibility to use internal shoulder rotation close to contact.
Petteri, thank you, you bring up some interesting topics that I cover in one of my upcoming videos.
I really like how you provide options for each shot and discuss the pros and cons. It is amazing to me how some instructors have such little knowledge as to the benefits and weaknesses of various styles of play.
Ideally an instructor could identify why some players prefer a particular approach (ie a shorter player can get more leg drive or a serve and volley player can get into the court faster).
Thanks for your hard work!
Josh, much appreciated
🙏
Very insightful video!!
I just realized that I tend to snap my wrist open in the full backswing of my serve, this isn't allowing me to serve properly.
Thank you for always uploading great content!!
Very few talk about the racket take back during the serve. I was getting confused with the pat dog method since I was used to the first method you described. The only thing I was doing wrong was the forehand grip and waiter serve. Now I am practising the pronation serve and your utube explaining the different styles of take back has really helped.A big thanks
I am an ITF player and tennis coach.
Great lesson! I'm still working on which technique will work best for me. I'm liking the semi-abbreviated backswing.
Thank you BeaglesRFun, semi-abbreviated is a great technique
Nikola, your videos are amazing! I've watched tens of them in a row. Looking forward to practising all your tips on court!
Thank you Alexey
Very impressive tutorial Nik, covering all aspects of the racquet drop. Thank you. Gordon
ripleygordon, my pleasure
Excellent 'in depth' tutorial Nick, thank you. Gordon
Ripleygordon, thank you. Glad you liked it 👍👍
GORDON RAMSAY YOU PLAY TENNIS, WHERES THE LAMBSAAAAAUUUUUCCCCEEEE
You are so knowledgeable about the game. Nice job!
I THINK I HAVE ENOUGH WORK TO DO FOR A FEW DAYS LOL , THANK YOU AGAIN
Very helpful I have started using the abbreviated take back to help pronation and consistency like your observation that one can change from the abbreviated when the action is grooved I will do that and see how it goes when I am ready. Thanks
Again... the best and the most objective analysis of all three options. For Rodick style the more stress should probably be on the shoulders turn and the explosive legs drive, but true it's not for everybody
Omar, thank you
Check out my research on the leg drive
ruclips.net/video/rSPc480H9uo/видео.html
Great video Nick, At 2.36 you describe recreational players snapping the wrist open on take back. That is precisely what I do and the end result is a more limited racket drop. It's a very engrained habit (25yrs!). Im trying lots of shadow swings to try to correct it. Anything else you can recommend?
Great demonstration. One comment about the abbreviated backswing - Andy Roddick bends his knees extremely low and gets an extreme twist in his torso to make up for the loss of backswing power. That would be one thing to mention for why this worked so well for him.
High Nick nice to see you again 👍
🙌
Thank you for the video! Very informative
A great demo for swing for serve Thank you.
Arvind, thank you, my pleasure
Another excellent demo and explanation.
Great videos! Thank you.
After failing so many times at using parallel arms to toss the ball and full back swing to bring back the racquet, I guess I need to try something else. so frustrated...
As always, great video ! Thank you so much !
Supernovasia, 👍
Very useful video - excellent!
Like this video and your explanations - really something different and bringing value to me. Thanks for this!
Wolle, thank you
This is excellent! I've intuitively (excuse the pun) understood these differences through my own experimentation on my serve, but it's so nice to see them laid out this clearly. This, together with your racket drop explanation, gives a great overview of overall service motions of the swing arm. But question for you: is the semi-abbreviated take back (which is more parallel to the baseline) naturally set you up for the kick serve better than the full take back (which is more perpendicular to the baseline)? I ask because as the kick serve motion itself is more parallel to the baseline, is it better to have a take back that matches the swing path's linear plane?
Andrew, Thank you 🙏
I don’t recommend having different take-backs for different serves. There is a reason why you don’t see that on tour.
The entire service motion needs to be repeatable, so that one day players can execute it without thinking about it.
Not only can having different technical characteristics for different serves be easily read by the opponent, but it can also be harmful in trying to develop a service motion that should eventually be automatic.
And to answer your question about the kicker. There are some great kick serves on tour with the semi abbreviated style: Isner, Sock, Kachanov. However, the best kick serve in the world IMHO (Thiem) has a full take back. So I do not think there is much of a correlation there.
Excellent technical breakdown! Bravo!
Thank you coach Kim
Fantastic info! Vey helpful and i cant wait to go try out some of these adjustments!
Fantastic content - really helpful.
Nick can you cover what the players do behind the scenes prep before a match if possible?
Thanks for the great video Nick. Could you demonstrate more on semi abbreviated, I could tell the difference between the the lag one and up together one. I am struggling coordinating my legs and swing.
Wil do
Monfis and Kyrgios are prefect examples for the abbreviated take back.
For the full swing Wawrinka is for me a prefect example as well.
very good! Thanks!
Alex, 👍🙏
Hi Coach great insights, I may not have liked too much because I have perfected the abbreviated swing and it is working for me, feel there is less room for glitches and basic errors, I may give a shot soon to the semi abbreviated swing, since you are more in favor of it. One thing I missed from your analysis regarding the abbreviated swing is the South Americans, specially Argentine players, a lot of them used it and perfected it for decades, Zabaleta, Chela, Canas, and currently Delbonis has a very powerful and strong abbreviated one. Also Fernando Gonzalzez on top of my head....
Hi Roberto, thank you. As I said in the video, abbreviated works great for some players and if it’s working for you keep doing it. However, some of greatest South American players of all time use the lag (Vilas, Sabatini, Nalbandian, Kuerten and DelPotro).
Excellent serve action. Please make a video on proper racquet drop and elbow bend.
Thank you ruclips.net/video/jx9k2Gik7Nk/видео.html
Simply excellent
GREAT WORK SIR, I WAS STRUGGLING , NOW OK .....
For the Roddick serve he actually uses elastic potential energy rather than momentum. He bends his knees and moves the elbow back and down (like a bow and arrow) as he tosses and twists his hips and then uncoils as he launches at the ball.
I think this worked well for him because he was a lot stronger in his shoulders and upper body than most tennis players. When you have larger than average upper body muscles from other sports they don't get used as much in tennis and so they become more prone to tightness. I have experienced this and it makes getting loose when playing very hard. That weakness can also be used as a strength however if you can somehow tap into the muscles and their inherent tension. I think what Andy did was simply pull his bicept muscle back as an additional torque lever as the last stage of his uncoiling of his core (which every serve motion does). His narrow base and quick motion allowed his stretched chest muscle to whip his arm up at the last moment before pronation and ball contact. I've tried this and it works if you can cut down the time from toss to contact to a minimum.
All this said...perhaps recommend this motion for players who have a stronger upper body and/or are coming from other more quick burst motion sports (like baseball or football or basketball). It's very hard to be smooth when stationary if you are used to making a quick first step. I struggle with this and a abbreviated serve release really worked...at least for a hard first serve. Still not sold its a good motion generally but perhaps a helpful way to recommend for players choosing among the options.
JD G, yes of course. A small number of players will find more comfort with this style. I have a 11 yo high level girl who serves with this style. She gets by far the most power this way. Everyone is different. However, in my experience this is a 1 out of a hundred situation if that. Rare
First, I'm just getting to know your channel, very well explained and great content! Secondly, My wrist has the tendency to open up like you mention at 6:03, is there any specific practice to reinforce it to not do that?
Akbar, try bending the wrist Djokovic/Raonic style, however it might not resolve the problem completely. It depends on the way you take your racquet up.
@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks for the tip! I have a semi abbreviate take back, but for some reason I think out of bad habit it, my wrist falls open. Will try the wrist style at my next hit session
Akbar, very common problem. Lots of muscle memory programmed into your motion. Be patient!
I've tried Full and Abbreviated over my long career (😩). Abbreviated gives more control and a quick rhythm IMO but requires a lot of strength to achieve high r-head speed. Roddick has both I think?
Excellent 😀
Hi Nick, how much tension should be applied on the grip? I strugle to accelerate the racket and thought perhaps I wasn´t gripping strong enough: Thank you.
Hi Ger
Don’t worry to too much about grip tension. Hold it comfortably, not too tight or loose
There's another really obscure take back that, for example, Caroline Garcia uses. The serving arm is set up high, then the toss, racquet drop etc happen after that. For beginners, that might be the easiest way. And it's not really that bad, it does the job.
Satyu, the takeback is indipendent from the rhythm. Garcia has an abbreviated take back like Roddick. The sequencing of the left and right side is different.
Great videos.
sylvantube1, thank u 🙏
Great video
Excellent video Nik! I filmed myself serving and what I see is that I have full takeback and have the problem you mentioned, I flip my wrist, open the racket, and what I see I dont reach thropy position at all. I tried to moved to semiabbreviated, but it s not working. How to correct this flip of the wrist what you mentioned for full takeback?
Stjepan, it's a complex issue depending on various factors, but definitely correctable. I can't give specific advice wo seeing the serve, but one thing I can tell you is that it takes time and is not something you can correct in 5 minutes.
Good video.
I’m going to give you an unusual compliment so please don’t take it as an insult in disguise. Your videos all have GREAT AUDIO. I watch a lot of tennis instructional videos and you’d be amazed how many times you just can’t hear what the instructor is saying!
If you wanted some constructive criticism, I could say your lighting is a bit harsh, but that’s a necessary evil as you record outdoors. It does make you come off a little stern, which you don’t actually seem to be at all. I suppose you could wear a hat or sunglasses, which depending on your choices, will either make you look cool or really, really dorky...
Now I AM being insulting, my apologies!😉. Let me try to save face by saying that I like your channel a lot, you have a deep knowledge of tennis technique and explain it well. And like others have said, you pair that with practical application of each method’s advantages and disadvantages, something that other instructors seem to miss. (?!)
Thank you for all your hard work, best of luck growing your channel. You’re one of the good guys, Nik!!
Rremguy, that is great advice thank you. Yes lighting is a big problem when recording in south Florida. It’s something that I’m trying to get better at.
Do you think the full take back could help balance against the tossing arm, and provide a more consistent toss? It kind of seems like this is what Federer does.
Any recommendations for someone recovering from shoulder surgery? I’ve been trying to find the right style with a more limited range of motion. I’m doing an abbreviated backswing right now. Most of the stress on the shoulder is felt when I’m moving upwards and my racquet is still behind me, pointing downwards.
loved thed semi.
Thanks Ron
@@IntuitiveTennis , Going to try the abbreviated, might get me better at the top.
Try and see what works best Ron 👍
I've been watching some videos of women's ncaa division 1 college players in the US, and I've noticed many of them use the abbreviated backswing. I was raised in the 1990s only with the full backswing and platform stance, so it's helpful to understand the differences. Thanks! PS- didn't Agassi use the abbreviated backswing on his second serve for awhile?
Not sure about Agassi, if you have footage of it I’d be happy to look at it
Which is Zverev used?
Hi, what about pronation of the forearm after the racquet and ball meet on the serve, do you think it is necessary, if so can you do a video on it. What I mean by pronation is the racquet hand palm faces outward during the racquet follow through.
michelle, ruclips.net/video/0mrat6fpa8k/видео.html
Which take back least prone to injuries?
i remember agassi did an abbreviated backswing on his service in 1993 ..
I believe that for taller players like myself (194cm) the abbreviated take back like Berdych or Roddick has some advantages, because the tossing arm is easier to coordinate. One can achieve that as well with a lag of the hitting arm, but then I tend to get in trouble with timing (rush). The longer the extremities the more torque is being creating which has to be tamed and coordinated. As a recreational player you only have a limited time to practice so I think it’s reasonable to maximize the likelihood of achieving good quality rather than unlocking all potential sources to build momentum.
Marcel, the abbreviated style works well for some players. Some of my students use it. However, the is no correlation between height and the style of the backswing/toss. The vast majority of tall players serve with a full lag. V Williams, Pliskova sisters, Muguruza, k
Karlovic, Zverev, Medvedev etc.
The style of backswing/toss is dependent on several factors and it’s highly highly individualistic
@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks for your quick response. I agree that the majority of the Top 100 uses a full takeback and especially your last sentence is true. That being said, I do not think that the Top 100(0) are a good reference group for the average amateur player in terms of representation of playing styles being an indicator for which style oneself should use. On a good amateur level, which for me is LK5 and better in the German system (~5.5 NTRP), I do believe to see a correlation between height and shortness of the takeback. I might be wrong, but I think my theory is plausible. On that level I even noticed a couple of players serving high speed with the Delbonis technique. On the professional level, Dimitrov once served several doublefaults and suddenly started serving in Delbonis style. You are right, rhythm seems more natural when you see Roger's full takeback, but the more simplified a motion is the less can go wrong and consistency is more important for a serve than speed I think.
Marcel, I specialize in recreational adult tennis and the vast majority of my students benefit from the swing momentum generated from a full takeback and a lag. Some will find the abbreviated style easier to execute, however most will struggle with power. The top 100 men and women are a good reference in finding the optimal technique which in my teaching methodology is what every player should aspire to achieve regardless of playing level.
Intuitive Tennis I am certain you are a good coach and if most of your students profit more from the full take back that is perfect. What I was saying is that a certain style is not superior to another just because it is overly represented in the Top 100. I’ve been struggling with my serve for years due to inconsistency of my ball toss despite having tried multiple techniques (the variance of serve quality resembles Zverev’s), this is why I thought the abbreviated motion might be something to give a try.
I’m glad the abbreviated technique is working well for you Marcel
Sort of unrelated question, but what are your thoughts about shock absorbers?
I don’t use one, it’s mainly for sounds and feel. Personal preference
@@IntuitiveTennis Awesome, thanks!
Hey I have a question what category would Carla Suárez Navarro serve be in ?
Jonlon, like most WTA players it’s semi abbreviated with a full lag ala dr Ivo
Thanks so much !
What serve technique does Dominic Thiem use? It looks like a full backswing?
Yes full backswing
Gael Monfils and Nadal also have an abbreviated takeback.
Sameer, semi abbreviated
@@IntuitiveTennis
Yes you are right, sorry.
Sameer, no worries at all. Both of these guys have changed their take backs throughout the course of their careers.
@@IntuitiveTennis
Especially Nadal, I have noticed he keeps changing his service motion after every comeback from a prolonged injury absence.
Rod Laver had a more abbreviated take back
Doesn't the abbreviated allow you to start faster core rotation (arms are tucked closer for longer), thus increasing rotation speed? My understanding is that a full swing slows down your core rotation and makes the contact slower. Andy Roddick as a short guy and you can only muscle a ball so fast. The fact that Roddick is the only great server at that level tells me that being taller seems more important a factor in speed than the take back.
Makes me want to see a tall player with an abbreviated swing take a crack at it. Will experiment later and report back.
This is very good video. But what about the wrist? Do you have a video that shows correct form for the wrist, to avoid wrist injuries? Clearly I write this comment because I experience a lot of wrist pains when practicing serve. Especially when I just start practicing the serve I seem to be twisting my wrist to cause the pain.
Dmitry, thank you
These take-back techniques can help the wrist to be in the proper position before accelerating.
The wrist pain is most likely in the acceleration and contact/finish phase of the serve.
To pinpoint what is causing this pain is impossible to say wo seeing the serve.
In the meantime this might help.
ruclips.net/video/0mrat6fpa8k/видео.html
Thank you, Nikola. Today I will ask my niece to tape me servicing so that I can spot when/if I am twisting the wrist.
With Isner's serve his racket doesn't drop, due to it being dropped before he tosses the ball
I thought Fed looks more like an abbreviated, or at least he keeps it on the right side…
What do you think are the mechanical similarities between the serve and the forehand, beyond the grips?
Podia, none! Completely different mechanics on those two strokes. The only similarity is that it’s hit on the stronger (dominant) side of the body, therefore some players will have a huge serve and forehand, but this is not always the case, especially on old school players and most WTA.
Intuitive Tennis Thanks Nick. Perhaps you can do a video on this. I strongly suspect many players mix up their mechanics (mixing oil and water) between these two strokes. I’ve even heard coaches say the modern FH is now similar to the serve.
@@IntuitiveTennis Interesting thoughts and the reference to Raonic is very astute. In fact, it seems many of the great servers had mediocre FHs relative to their serve, Sampras being another example, Andy Roddick, Roscoe Tanner and Kevin Curran also. You're on to something here, there are different forces at play, but I think it's more related to the upper body joint sequences and contractions between the two strokes. Both have been compared to throwing motions.
Federer seems to be unique in that he has great mechanics in both, they are balanced strengths, he's good superb neuromuscular control compared to his peers. Nadals' FH is clearly better than his serve.
Podia, I agree it’s absolutely related to the upper body. Best serve forehand combos in my opinion are Boris Becker and Isner (underrated forehand), but like you said many huge forehands with relatively weak serves and vice versa. Tennis is a complex game.
@@IntuitiveTennis add Kevin Anderson, very similar to Isner, and both are "a bit" over 6' tall 😁
Oooo. That's not what the other guy says.
So of the Top 20 best servers of all time only 1 used an abbreviated take back, and your contention is that it lacks power?
Funny that the 9 out of the top 10 FASTEST servers of all time all have an abbreviated or semi-abbreviated take back.
Only 2 out of top 10 fastest serves have an abbreviated style (roddick, groth)
On the top 10 fastest women’s serves it’s zero
As stated in the video it works for some, but for most players it does not and results in a loss of power.
Great videos! Thank you.
Amazing video