Yep, ignore the scores and just listen to what they're saying. Mike nailed this one! Thanks Zee for rating the game on the table and not the one you wished it was
Wow. The only thing that bugged me was the scoring track. I only found the size of the minis mildly troublesome, and it was quickly easy to work out how to move them around effectively. We had trouble getting this one off the table. Between this and Azul Queen's Garden, I'm having a few disagreements with The Dice Tower recently.
I pre-ordered this when Mike mentioned it many months ago. I had my doubts about it, but after having played it once solo, I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I actually had a great play. The mechanics and gameplay were quite enjoyable and I didn't run into the components issues as much as you all did. Although I could see those things being an issue, they didn't detract from my experience that much. Putting some epoxy into the dice car seats could help lift the dice. I only have the cardboard cars, and wish I had the plastic ones. The cardboard cars are crap. I wish I could buy the plastic ones, that would be nice. Also, they should've made 4 of each prophecy card. I think this is a great game, despite those component issues. I would give it a 7.5 because of the gameplay and theme. And yes, all games with multiple symbols should always make player aids for ALL players!
Thanks for sharing your solo experience. How would you rate the replayability from a solo perspective? Do you feel each game would be different enough from the last to keep you coming back? Or is it one of those where you'll want that same experience again someday
@@JonReid01 That's a good question. I actually almost pulled it back out yesterday, but I'm hoping to play it multiplayer first before I jump back into a another solo game. Replayability might actually be a 6 for me, if I'm honest. Regardless of how great the mechanics of the multi-use dice and gameplay might be, the fact that every game is going to follow more or less the same track of the monsters weaving through the town makes the re-playability a little poor in my mind. But the ability to use the ghost tokens to alter the blank spaces and the summoning stones ( i think they're called) to alter any of the spaces, definitely helps in terms of variability. That might bump the re-playability up to a 6.5 for me, but hard to say. Solo-wise, I've only played it once, so take my thoughts for what they are: just first impressions. Also, it's hard for expectations to not influence one's rating of a game. This one I would probably put at overall a 7, if it weren't for it exceeding my expectations, which took it to a 7.5 on my initial scoring. Still, I was really impressed with how fun the gameplay was. It surprised me.
I love this review, AS a review. It's practically a thesis on the difficulties of reviewing. (with Zee as the control group) Also, you four are great to watch & listen to. Thanks!
This game does have some negatives to it, although I don’t agree with all the negatives dice tower talks about. To me, the negatives aren’t that big of a deal. I can make it work just fine. I absolutely love this game! It’s so fun to play, I love the theme, and the artwork is beautiful! I’ve played it solo many times on all different difficulties, and I love that we even have the option to change the difficulty. I’ve also played it a few times with other people. 1. Yes, the components are pretty cramped on the game board, it’s a tight squeeze. 2. And the score tracker doesn’t go up to 100 which is a bummer and the markers are too big for the score board. 3. The fact that everything doesn’t fit in the box also sucks 4. And yes, they really do need player aids cuz when playing for the first time you’re having to look at the back of the instructions many times. 5. And the fear mobiles were difficult to put together because there was no instructions on that in the rule book. I later found out that the instructions are on their website. But it would’ve been more helpful to have that in the rule book. But overall, these negatives don’t effect my love for the game and doesn’t change my rating of the game. I can live with these negatives, they feel so minor to me. When it comes to the score board and the trackers, I’ve found a way to make it work. I was able to fit everything in the box except the cars. I will likely buy a small box to keep those in and then Ill print a picture of the game cover to glue onto the other box. After my first game I had the icons memorized so I didn’t need to refer to the rule book anymore, so it was only a pain for that first game. And I will make my own player aids for when I play with other people.
Wow, I'm usually the one being overly annoyed with things not being streamlined, or components being bad, or what have you. But this game?! I don't know, for some reason I haven't reacted to these things, and I really really enjoy it. I have it rated as an 8.5, I think, and it'll probably go up even higher before I'm tired of it.
Yep - the components don't really bother me much, either. I briefly struggled with the size of the minis, but you just turn them on a bit of an angle and they fit no problem.
A small group of people discussing a new game like this is my favorite way to watch a review. I really feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the game and can make a decision about what games I want to buy. Which is why I watch reviews. Great job fellow gamers!
I played this a couple days ago. I understand sone of the issues. The grunts were pretty crowded, at least at first. A player aid would have been useful. The minis on the Spider Jack tracks were easy to knock over. Someone else was teaching, and I think we got some of the rules wrong regarding how some of the cards score. However, I did enjoy the game, and would enjoy playing again.
I was really hoping Tom would cover this one, but I'm still happy a 4 Squares came out, it's good to get as many opinions as possible. Anyway, I've got the deluxe edition too, and I have to say I didn't find it as fiddly as you guys did. My pieces didn't seem to be moving around that much and I don't remember the grunts (minis) ever falling over - although I'll agree with you that the board does look overcrowded once you got minions, grunts and ghosts in. The fearmobiles add to the theme and serve as a functional way to pass dice around, and at least with the cardboard cars I didn't find the dice being that hard to pull out. I had to glue the cardboard edges because they started fraying almost immediately though. That being said, I'm 100% with you on the need for player aids, and I also agree the language works against the game on occasion, making the teach harder than it needed to be. The scoring track is really annoying too, and the markers not fitting in the spaces is a nightmare for my OCD. Gameplay-wise, I liked it. It's deep enough and short enough that it does not outstay its welcome, and it has a bit more meat to it than games like Sagrada or even Roll Player, while basically falling under the same category. Why I would play this one over the other two really depends on novelty factor mixed with theme appeal. Overall, I think this game suffers from what I call Happy Pigs syndrome: looks like a cute and silly family game, while it's really a crunchy intermediate+ game I would not recommend to players with low attention span or 0 gaming experience.
We tried to play this at DTE, it was too much work to figure it out, we spent 10 minutes figuring what piece was what,(and some of the numbers didn't match such as ghosts) since the images in the manual I assume were for the retail edition. We did play one round and were like, "we're good" Was also confused on the prophecy card, and since the game is so new. there was no answer on BGG.
You guys got this 100%. The game could be a 9 dependant on personal preference but falls to a 6 or 7 due to basic component problems that could have been solved using common sense. I've only played it 3 times and found the gameplay is fun for all but found myself repeating steps and rules multiple times throughout the game because people would get lost or confused. Great review you guys
I think there were money issues with the Kickstarter as well. They were meant to have an insert that worked but botched it due to not wanting to increase the box size. It felt late and rushed simultaneously. Really a shame.
Think this was a deluxification for deluxification sake. Would have been better to use screen printed tokens or meeples for the monsters, and done a final check of the graphics for the board.
Good player aids are so essential to a games experience, it's so surprising to see some publishers still refusing to put them in. Take Wonderlands War for example, you get a player reference for the Ally cards so that you don't have to look across the table to see what they are, you get a double-sided player reference for the two phases of the game, and another full player reference to show the breakdown of the war phase. This is how it should be done. They almost go out of their way to make usability of the game the forefront. At this point I agree with anyone saying that A game's final score is docked a whole point for lack of player aids. There's just no excuse for it anymore
I found the scoring markers to be the most annoying part of the components. The deluxe parts don't fit the scoring tracks. I didn't have a problem with puttng together the fearmobiles though.
I was tempted with this one back when it was on KS. There were already several games I backed and just couldn't see myself getting it at the time. This may be something I may get at a future date if they fix some of the issues you guys mentioned. The dice drafting aspect sounded neat at the time and I'm also a sucker for art by The Mico. Usually when I see his art, I'm already tempted.
I'm glad Chris was a part of this review because I would rate this game about an 8 as well. Would be higher if a few things were different. I actually made my own player aids because you definitely need them, especially your first game. The deluxe summoning trackers are easy to knock over but that only happened to me a couple times so far. I very much dislike the score tracker...going from 0-9 on one side and 10-90 on the other...and my first game I got about a score of 130 which is further then the score tracker even goes. I'll just keep a pencil and paper and keep track of scores that way. Also, disappointed at the errors and omissions of the rulebook and cards. Had to print out BGG forums to have the corrections go with the rulebook. But I didn't have any problem with the size of the minis or the cardboard cars (except it would be nice if they fit in the box). I did super glue the connection points of the cars after building so they can't come undone. I also don't see what the problem is with the grunt movement, works fine to me. Anyway, I thought the gameplay itself was very fun and I love the theme! Will be playing every Halloween!
This isn’t overproduced. I own Foundations of Rome and Titan so I clearly love overproduced. This is poorly produced because things just don’t fit. That’s just a critical failure. And on top of that there just isn’t a lot of game here. And the gap between purchasing ghosts and overlords is insane, buying overlords is just so much better.
What are you talking about? Things fit very well in every aspect of the game. (Maybe the scoring track is the only one lacking). Ghosts are cheaper and better if you get the ghost that puts another grunt on your board, you can double 2-3 of your grunts you get so much more than some overlord bonus that you may or you may not achieve.
... no, foundations is silly. It should have been a $30 tile laying game, and they probably didn't believe that the game alone is good enough to sell that they have to put extra icing. It's the most annoying thing about game publishing these days. Average game? Deluxify it
Played it this aft for the second time. Absolutely need the player aids, just standard card size would help. Also agree that the components are a bit fiddly on the boards. The game mechanics overshadow any theme and it really just becomes an optimisation game. After all that it is a pretty fun game and definitely has a lot of depth to choosing your route to victory, downside to that is you have no idea who is winning until you do the end game scoring.
Love the game, but they are right, there are massive component issues. And they didn´t even really mention that it is almost impossible to fit everything back into the box, even when you toss out the horrible insert.
I'm sorry if there is a more appropriate place to comment about this, but for the last few days, all the episodes of the DTV audio podcasts are ending before the video content. It's been happening with all the episodes, no matter the content. I've just listened this one and it is ending at 26 min, for example.
My rebuttal to this episode: First, I think you have the thoughts of a team who spends most of their time "critiquing" -- and that's okay. As for the component issues, I noticed everyone of the problems that were mentioned when playing the game & each one of them bothered me less than the 4 Square crew. I agree that it 'feels' like the Final Frontier team didn't play the deluxe version...but by the end of the game, those component items weren't a big deal to me. Why? Because I have played a lot of games (and a lot of Kickstarters) and too often, I have a game that looks & feels great and leaves me wanting just a bit more out of the actual gameplay. With Monsters on Board, I finished the game (after coming 3rd out of 4 players) and absolutely loved the game and what I was doing while playing. And for me, that end-game feeling is a treasure. So, I found that the gameplay itself far outweighed component issues (that again, I personally think were over-hyped in this 4 Square Review). I'm currently at an 8.5 -- very happy I purchased the game and look forward to future plays. Last 3 comments: a) Zee didn't like the heads-down solitarie play...which is fair, but it implements something that I wish LONGER playtime games would do...let us do actions simultaneously. We could all do our actions individually and see what's happening and feel more interaction and the game would take 60% longer. b) I also disagree about not being able to use the cardboard fear-mobiles. I think they are great (yes, unnecessary) but thematically cool and I had no problem with being able to utilize them during gameplay, and c) no one mentioned the rulebook, which I personally thought was well done -- it's a breath of fresh air to read through a rulebook once and feel like...Yes, I'm ready to play!
I’m glad that you enjoyed the rulebook - I was hoping they would have said something about it - I tried to write it using a lot of educational principles from my teaching background.
The Dice Tower have always been fair in their critiques/reviews. Stick around long enough and you’ll see 😊 Maybe you disagree with every critique they made because you wanna love a game you backed.. P.S Glad your enjoying the game 🙌🏽
@@guillermoz4914 I have watched MANY of the DT reviews. My point wasn't that they were unfair, but that I had a rebuttal to their points based on my own gameplay perspective -- because I personally see this as a really fun game & I would sad to see people turned off from it (based on these reviews) due to a [personal opinion] over-focus on component issues.
I late pledged it. I haven't been able to get it played yet due to various RL issues beyond a solo run through to teach myself the game. The spook juice markers for score bug me the most as they're too big for the spots they go on, that was my biggest issue, but all your component issues are valid. I got the plastic fearmobiles, and sounds like I'm glad I did, even with some of the dice spots are indeed difficult to get the dice out of. It's more of a point salad game/multiplayer solitaire (as Zee points out) than I usually like, but did enjoy it quite a bit, but I can fully see why the component problems would downgrade people's opinions of it, it certainly downgraded mine. I'd be wary to recommend, and may not keep it, but will have to try it out with our group before I can make that decision.
If you go back and watch early gameplay of this, there were player aides. Don't ask me why they got dropped. I know there were a lot of complaints about the box size and the components fitting in it. I had no issue putting the cars together, although I do have the plastic ones as well. I didn't have any issues with people forgetting steps because I made everyone go through the steps one at a time instead of simultaneously the first round or so. After that there were no issues.
I think my biggest hang up is Camilla's final score. Mike said he was teaching the game despite the component issues so I can understand him giving it a 7, but Camilla said she wasn't playing the game because of those issues. I would have a hard time giving a game a recommendation if I would rather avoid bothering with it. I understand she wants it to be better, but I don't think the game in its current state should be a 7 based on her talking points.
@@tehbige73 go look at their logged plays of this game in six months. Guarantee it doesn't go up if listed and totally wouldn't be shocked if the score goes down. I actually checked in on a few games a few reviewers did in which they gave a higher score on video than they did in their own BGG profile. Some of this is the attitude to appease everyone and not just be honest and score the game on the table as is. As I said in another response, there's some really great insight into these games so it's worth watching to a degree, but if Tom or Zee isn't there there's just not the honest scoring DT was known for when it was Tom, Zee and Sam. BGG thinks 7 is the cutoff for a good game, and anything under is iffy to a straight non consider. With that line being a known fact for years now there's no way a game you're lucky if two of those reviewers ever play again is a 7. BTW Graeme Anderson is an extremely good DT reviewer, but lives in Canada so you don't see him with the crew. Highly recommend his reviews also.
What I'm hearing is that a digital edition of this would be great. But yeah, given when this kickstarter funded, Covid probably shot them in the foot from a components testing perspective.
One of two things happened here. It's either a good game, and too much time was spent talking about the negatives. Or it's a bad game that got a seal of approval. Either way, it was a weird review overall. Still love the 4 Squares format though, so thanks for the video.
Sure, it’s overproduced. And it can be a little tricky getting dice out of the plastic cars but the toy factor was a big hit with my group and I think it’s preference. We didn’t have component playability issues and I wouldn’t want to play the retail version if I had a choice.
So the first what fifteen minutes basically say the game is frustratingly unusable from a component and gameplay perspective? And then it's totally solitaire? I'm out........ Hold up 8/10??!?! 7+ is recommending the game and saying approved. How can we recommend a game that's a chore to play and use and teach when there are a ton of other games out there? Camilla actually said she wasn't willing to put up with the numerous issues of the game. That is not something you then recommend. I would dock more than a measly point for shoddy components and graphic design and usuability issues especially when this is a publisher who should know what they are doing and was A Kickstarter! But lately there is a mentality with gamers that a game must be at least a 7-8 to be considered remotely worth it and anything less is terrible garbage. Team Zee!!!
This is a classic example of why I no longer will consider crowd funded games. It creates a sense of urgency in the development and a preference for presentation over usability and gameplay. So either the gameplay or the usability or both suffers in favor of the hyped up presentation. I at one time went for a few crowd funded games that all ended up frustrations and now will no longer waste any time on them. Generally, I won't even waste the time on their reviews though not all reviews make it clear from the get go that it's a crowd funded game. In this case it was an interesting review because it confirmed what I have come to expect of such productions.
I will say, the scoreboard is awful … I used the Between Two Cities scoreboard instead. Aside from shallower dice wells in the plastic cars, scoreboard the only change I’d really have liked to see.
I can’t wait for Tom’s “This is how I fixed Monsters on Board”. I personally really enjoy the game play, but I agree that the components definitely hinder the game. The scoring track is horrendous. I think color cylinders with screen printed monsters, would of been better.
Do they make Dice Tower Seal of Approval images with an asterisk that they can put on game boxes? So that means, a game that was given the seal, but with a heavy asterisk, will still have the seal. That, to me, is a problem I don’t want associated with my brand. (On this or any game). DT needs to get back to being unafraid of low scores.
I was disappointed to find the deluxe version didn't come with the original parts also... considering the manual only showed the original pieces... actually had to go to the kickstarter page to see what was what...
This is the new DT. Zee rated it as the old DT would and you could see the others almost cringe at how negative he was being. There's a lot of good insight on these, but ignore the scores. What they say says it all.
Not worth it. Thanks, Zee. There are way too many games that are actually good to be frustrated with this average. Lots of problems right out of the box...no thanks.
I think you pick on some components without justification, i had no issues whatsoever with any component of this game and i had a blast on my first gameplay. It is a great game and you shouldn't kick it down just because you can't remember 6 symbols, or you have a hard time assembling some cardboard (which in the end looks great if you really put the effort). The dice get out easily from the cardboard cars, the monsters are not that hard to manage on their tracks, the symbols actually make sense (You have a foot for moving, you have a spider for improving spider jack, you have the 'eye' symbol which is found on piece itself, and the spookjuice symbol is easy to see. I think at this point you are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I also felt that you were influencing each other in what to say. I really valued your reviews until this one. PLease change my mind on the next 4 squared review.
I'm unsure what you mean by "influencing each other what to say." None of us say something in a review unless we mean it. If all for of us had complaints about something, we all felt it. But notice that later on we all disagree on how much of an impact those things had and gave varied final thoughts. You might disagree with how we felt about aspects of the game,, but a range of 5 to 8 for final ratings speaks to being willing to disagree in a review.
@@DTChrisYi Fair enough, the final scores were really a surprise after all those negative comments. I still like you guys even if we disagree on some topics. Stay awesome!
It really suorised me. We don't have any component issues. My wife loved the game. And casual gamers, had no issue with the game once I teached them. We played Ark Nova today with a casual gamer. I had to print playeraids for new players... But the game is (Ark Nova) great. I think this game easy to learn, easy to use and really fun. We had 3 problems. 1. The scoring chart wierd and the markers too big. 2. The summoning stone, markers sometimes fall over 3. It could use some player aids. But none of them is game breaking. And we like the cardboard fearmobiles better. They were easy to assemble. I really don't understand the uproar about the components. We've played the game with lot of people and nobody had an issue... And the Monster Mixer makes it even better imho.
There is no way I'd even try this game, there are way too many bothersome issues to make this worth my time. I'd rather play a game that didn't take this much work.
For anyone interested in this game, i have to say please ignore this review, it is an all time stinker! I have played the deluxe copy and there is 0 useability issues. The game looks absolutely stunning and yes, it is crowded with the components but the fit completely fine and witk completely fine. Plus they look stunning! The cars are absolutely needed or the dice faces will change when you pass them, i had no problems assembling them. A reference card would have been useless and in my experience players never yse them anyway. Every action is taken multiple times a turn and you get used to them very quickly. This symbology issues could be applied to literally any euro, including every garphill game that this crew dotes over. Most importantly the game is fun and very strategic and genuinely different to a lot of stiff out there. If you were interested take another look, its great.
I guess all the usability issues we had, and all the people we taught it to had, didn't exist? Also it got a positive review. Two 7s and an 8 is a solid score!
I'm convinced at this point that Kickstarter is not really helping publishers anymore. It is such a huge advantage to have the money up front, there is no reason to not use KS, but if you want to use it, backers are demanding about what bloat they want to see. This is causing a real problem for publishers with profits, components that are needlessly lavish, and too much content that gets in the way of a good product.
From the overview I sense no theme at all, and didn't see any original or exciting idea. Just tracks and tracks, and points. Looks so generic and uninspired. What a waste of the wonderful artwork. So sad.
I have to agree that the components do the game an injustice. And the theme is a bit childish for a solitaire puzzly game. I'd say 6 out of ten as it is; plus 1 if production was better
I vehemently disagree with this entire review lol...The components are AMAZING! I am sitting here trying to figure out if we even played the same game. This game is awesome! However, I love the DT and assume I am the one who did something wrong. Keep up the good work DT crew!
Serious? Got the game and love it. But don't you have issues with -the inlay and fitting everything in the box? -Scoremarkers too big and no way to track going over 100. -Cardboard cars really fragile The other problems I can overlook but the above mentioned are a nuisance on otherwise a great game.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I am thankful the rulebook went all right for you all - I put a ton of thought and effort into it.
Reviews like this improves the hobby! Thanks for bringing light to productions getting in the way of games.
Just played my copy, there are 0 issues with the components, the review simply isn't true
Yep, ignore the scores and just listen to what they're saying. Mike nailed this one!
Thanks Zee for rating the game on the table and not the one you wished it was
Wow. The only thing that bugged me was the scoring track. I only found the size of the minis mildly troublesome, and it was quickly easy to work out how to move them around effectively.
We had trouble getting this one off the table. Between this and Azul Queen's Garden, I'm having a few disagreements with The Dice Tower recently.
Same on Queen's Garden...because of the reviews I went into it expecting a bad game & came out of it well-pleased with the gameplay.
Yeah, I feel like Tom rated Queen's Garden in comparison to other Azul games, rather than as a game in it's own right.
You are spot on, this review is an all time stinker.
Mike's summary of a game thematically based on "Monsters Inc" is "sullied". High-level under-the-radar punning there.
I pre-ordered this when Mike mentioned it many months ago. I had my doubts about it, but after having played it once solo, I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I actually had a great play. The mechanics and gameplay were quite enjoyable and I didn't run into the components issues as much as you all did. Although I could see those things being an issue, they didn't detract from my experience that much. Putting some epoxy into the dice car seats could help lift the dice. I only have the cardboard cars, and wish I had the plastic ones. The cardboard cars are crap. I wish I could buy the plastic ones, that would be nice. Also, they should've made 4 of each prophecy card. I think this is a great game, despite those component issues. I would give it a 7.5 because of the gameplay and theme. And yes, all games with multiple symbols should always make player aids for ALL players!
Thanks for sharing your solo experience. How would you rate the replayability from a solo perspective? Do you feel each game would be different enough from the last to keep you coming back? Or is it one of those where you'll want that same experience again someday
@@JonReid01 That's a good question. I actually almost pulled it back out yesterday, but I'm hoping to play it multiplayer first before I jump back into a another solo game. Replayability might actually be a 6 for me, if I'm honest. Regardless of how great the mechanics of the multi-use dice and gameplay might be, the fact that every game is going to follow more or less the same track of the monsters weaving through the town makes the re-playability a little poor in my mind. But the ability to use the ghost tokens to alter the blank spaces and the summoning stones ( i think they're called) to alter any of the spaces, definitely helps in terms of variability. That might bump the re-playability up to a 6.5 for me, but hard to say. Solo-wise, I've only played it once, so take my thoughts for what they are: just first impressions. Also, it's hard for expectations to not influence one's rating of a game. This one I would probably put at overall a 7, if it weren't for it exceeding my expectations, which took it to a 7.5 on my initial scoring. Still, I was really impressed with how fun the gameplay was. It surprised me.
I love this review, AS a review.
It's practically a thesis on the difficulties of reviewing.
(with Zee as the control group)
Also, you four are great to watch & listen to. Thanks!
Zee has such class. Always truly gives games a shot even when the game doesn't jive with his preferences.
This game does have some negatives to it, although I don’t agree with all the negatives dice tower talks about. To me, the negatives aren’t that big of a deal. I can make it work just fine. I absolutely love this game! It’s so fun to play, I love the theme, and the artwork is beautiful! I’ve played it solo many times on all different difficulties, and I love that we even have the option to change the difficulty. I’ve also played it a few times with other people.
1. Yes, the components are pretty cramped on the game board, it’s a tight squeeze.
2. And the score tracker doesn’t go up to 100 which is a bummer and the markers are too big for the score board.
3. The fact that everything doesn’t fit in the box also sucks
4. And yes, they really do need player aids cuz when playing for the first time you’re having to look at the back of the instructions many times.
5. And the fear mobiles were difficult to put together because there was no instructions on that in the rule book. I later found out that the instructions are on their website. But it would’ve been more helpful to have that in the rule book.
But overall, these negatives don’t effect my love for the game and doesn’t change my rating of the game. I can live with these negatives, they feel so minor to me. When it comes to the score board and the trackers, I’ve found a way to make it work. I was able to fit everything in the box except the cars. I will likely buy a small box to keep those in and then Ill print a picture of the game cover to glue onto the other box. After my first game I had the icons memorized so I didn’t need to refer to the rule book anymore, so it was only a pain for that first game. And I will make my own player aids for when I play with other people.
Hated the fact that we didn’t get the cardboard stuff along with the minis. Most of the time you get both, and this time both is needed
Wow, I'm usually the one being overly annoyed with things not being streamlined, or components being bad, or what have you. But this game?! I don't know, for some reason I haven't reacted to these things, and I really really enjoy it. I have it rated as an 8.5, I think, and it'll probably go up even higher before I'm tired of it.
Yep - the components don't really bother me much, either. I briefly struggled with the size of the minis, but you just turn them on a bit of an angle and they fit no problem.
I genuinely thought Chris Yi was going to be explaining the game when Mike introduced the person as “someone remarkably well spoken” 🤣🤣🤣
I had the same thought! 🤔
A small group of people discussing a new game like this is my favorite way to watch a review. I really feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the game and can make a decision about what games I want to buy. Which is why I watch reviews. Great job fellow gamers!
I played this a couple days ago. I understand sone of the issues. The grunts were pretty crowded, at least at first. A player aid would have been useful. The minis on the Spider Jack tracks were easy to knock over. Someone else was teaching, and I think we got some of the rules wrong regarding how some of the cards score. However, I did enjoy the game, and would enjoy playing again.
I was really hoping Tom would cover this one, but I'm still happy a 4 Squares came out, it's good to get as many opinions as possible.
Anyway, I've got the deluxe edition too, and I have to say I didn't find it as fiddly as you guys did. My pieces didn't seem to be moving around that much and I don't remember the grunts (minis) ever falling over - although I'll agree with you that the board does look overcrowded once you got minions, grunts and ghosts in. The fearmobiles add to the theme and serve as a functional way to pass dice around, and at least with the cardboard cars I didn't find the dice being that hard to pull out. I had to glue the cardboard edges because they started fraying almost immediately though.
That being said, I'm 100% with you on the need for player aids, and I also agree the language works against the game on occasion, making the teach harder than it needed to be. The scoring track is really annoying too, and the markers not fitting in the spaces is a nightmare for my OCD.
Gameplay-wise, I liked it. It's deep enough and short enough that it does not outstay its welcome, and it has a bit more meat to it than games like Sagrada or even Roll Player, while basically falling under the same category. Why I would play this one over the other two really depends on novelty factor mixed with theme appeal.
Overall, I think this game suffers from what I call Happy Pigs syndrome: looks like a cute and silly family game, while it's really a crunchy intermediate+ game I would not recommend to players with low attention span or 0 gaming experience.
We tried to play this at DTE, it was too much work to figure it out, we spent 10 minutes figuring what piece was what,(and some of the numbers didn't match such as ghosts) since the images in the manual I assume were for the retail edition. We did play one round and were like, "we're good" Was also confused on the prophecy card, and since the game is so new. there was no answer on BGG.
Zee is in rare form in the review. Hilarious stuff.
You guys got this 100%. The game could be a 9 dependant on personal preference but falls to a 6 or 7 due to basic component problems that could have been solved using common sense. I've only played it 3 times and found the gameplay is fun for all but found myself repeating steps and rules multiple times throughout the game because people would get lost or confused. Great review you guys
I think there were money issues with the Kickstarter as well. They were meant to have an insert that worked but botched it due to not wanting to increase the box size. It felt late and rushed simultaneously. Really a shame.
Think this was a deluxification for deluxification sake. Would have been better to use screen printed tokens or meeples for the monsters, and done a final check of the graphics for the board.
Does anyone think they will improve it in a second edition eventually, or will it fade into the background? I had really high hopes for this game.
The game is great, the review simply isn't true, the component issues are waaaay overblown to the point of being made up.
Good player aids are so essential to a games experience, it's so surprising to see some publishers still refusing to put them in. Take Wonderlands War for example, you get a player reference for the Ally cards so that you don't have to look across the table to see what they are, you get a double-sided player reference for the two phases of the game, and another full player reference to show the breakdown of the war phase. This is how it should be done. They almost go out of their way to make usability of the game the forefront. At this point I agree with anyone saying that A game's final score is docked a whole point for lack of player aids. There's just no excuse for it anymore
I found the scoring markers to be the most annoying part of the components. The deluxe parts don't fit the scoring tracks. I didn't have a problem with puttng together the fearmobiles though.
I was tempted with this one back when it was on KS. There were already several games I backed and just couldn't see myself getting it at the time. This may be something I may get at a future date if they fix some of the issues you guys mentioned. The dice drafting aspect sounded neat at the time and I'm also a sucker for art by The Mico. Usually when I see his art, I'm already tempted.
I'm glad Chris was a part of this review because I would rate this game about an 8 as well. Would be higher if a few things were different. I actually made my own player aids because you definitely need them, especially your first game. The deluxe summoning trackers are easy to knock over but that only happened to me a couple times so far. I very much dislike the score tracker...going from 0-9 on one side and 10-90 on the other...and my first game I got about a score of 130 which is further then the score tracker even goes. I'll just keep a pencil and paper and keep track of scores that way. Also, disappointed at the errors and omissions of the rulebook and cards. Had to print out BGG forums to have the corrections go with the rulebook. But I didn't have any problem with the size of the minis or the cardboard cars (except it would be nice if they fit in the box). I did super glue the connection points of the cars after building so they can't come undone. I also don't see what the problem is with the grunt movement, works fine to me. Anyway, I thought the gameplay itself was very fun and I love the theme! Will be playing every Halloween!
We really like this game. Other than the octopus and the summoning stone. Really enjoy it. And I think the cardboard cars are great and sturdy
This isn’t overproduced. I own Foundations of Rome and Titan so I clearly love overproduced. This is poorly produced because things just don’t fit. That’s just a critical failure. And on top of that there just isn’t a lot of game here. And the gap between purchasing ghosts and overlords is insane, buying overlords is just so much better.
What are you talking about? Things fit very well in every aspect of the game. (Maybe the scoring track is the only one lacking). Ghosts are cheaper and better if you get the ghost that puts another grunt on your board, you can double 2-3 of your grunts you get so much more than some overlord bonus that you may or you may not achieve.
... no, foundations is silly. It should have been a $30 tile laying game, and they probably didn't believe that the game alone is good enough to sell that they have to put extra icing. It's the most annoying thing about game publishing these days. Average game? Deluxify it
Played it this aft for the second time. Absolutely need the player aids, just standard card size would help. Also agree that the components are a bit fiddly on the boards. The game mechanics overshadow any theme and it really just becomes an optimisation game. After all that it is a pretty fun game and definitely has a lot of depth to choosing your route to victory, downside to that is you have no idea who is winning until you do the end game scoring.
Love the game, but they are right, there are massive component issues. And they didn´t even really mention that it is almost impossible to fit everything back into the box, even when you toss out the horrible insert.
Hopefully publishers start looking at whether their game is good or just looks good. This seems to be happening more and more lately.
I'm sorry if there is a more appropriate place to comment about this, but for the last few days, all the episodes of the DTV audio podcasts are ending before the video content. It's been happening with all the episodes, no matter the content. I've just listened this one and it is ending at 26 min, for example.
That's really odd. We'll look into that when we're back in office tomorrow. Thanks for bringing it up.
Zee swinging the hammer! Right on man, looks like a 6 to me.
We have played the Deluxe copy and agree the components do get in the way. The game at its self is spot on for us and we have enjoyed our plays.
I kept looking for directions on how to put the cars together- didn't find them - but did get them put together - only messed up with one.
My rebuttal to this episode:
First, I think you have the thoughts of a team who spends most of their time "critiquing" -- and that's okay.
As for the component issues, I noticed everyone of the problems that were mentioned when playing the game & each one of them bothered me less than the 4 Square crew. I agree that it 'feels' like the Final Frontier team didn't play the deluxe version...but by the end of the game, those component items weren't a big deal to me. Why?
Because I have played a lot of games (and a lot of Kickstarters) and too often, I have a game that looks & feels great and leaves me wanting just a bit more out of the actual gameplay. With Monsters on Board, I finished the game (after coming 3rd out of 4 players) and absolutely loved the game and what I was doing while playing. And for me, that end-game feeling is a treasure. So, I found that the gameplay itself far outweighed component issues (that again, I personally think were over-hyped in this 4 Square Review). I'm currently at an 8.5 -- very happy I purchased the game and look forward to future plays.
Last 3 comments: a) Zee didn't like the heads-down solitarie play...which is fair, but it implements something that I wish LONGER playtime games would do...let us do actions simultaneously. We could all do our actions individually and see what's happening and feel more interaction and the game would take 60% longer. b) I also disagree about not being able to use the cardboard fear-mobiles. I think they are great (yes, unnecessary) but thematically cool and I had no problem with being able to utilize them during gameplay, and c) no one mentioned the rulebook, which I personally thought was well done -- it's a breath of fresh air to read through a rulebook once and feel like...Yes, I'm ready to play!
I’m glad that you enjoyed the rulebook - I was hoping they would have said something about it - I tried to write it using a lot of educational principles from my teaching background.
@@RulebooksForYou Awesome! Great job, Jonathan :-)
The Dice Tower have always been fair in their critiques/reviews. Stick around long enough and you’ll see 😊
Maybe you disagree with every critique they made because you wanna love a game you backed..
P.S Glad your enjoying the game 🙌🏽
@@guillermoz4914 I have watched MANY of the DT reviews. My point wasn't that they were unfair, but that I had a rebuttal to their points based on my own gameplay perspective -- because I personally see this as a really fun game & I would sad to see people turned off from it (based on these reviews) due to a [personal opinion] over-focus on component issues.
I late pledged it. I haven't been able to get it played yet due to various RL issues beyond a solo run through to teach myself the game. The spook juice markers for score bug me the most as they're too big for the spots they go on, that was my biggest issue, but all your component issues are valid. I got the plastic fearmobiles, and sounds like I'm glad I did, even with some of the dice spots are indeed difficult to get the dice out of.
It's more of a point salad game/multiplayer solitaire (as Zee points out) than I usually like, but did enjoy it quite a bit, but I can fully see why the component problems would downgrade people's opinions of it, it certainly downgraded mine. I'd be wary to recommend, and may not keep it, but will have to try it out with our group before I can make that decision.
If you go back and watch early gameplay of this, there were player aides. Don't ask me why they got dropped. I know there were a lot of complaints about the box size and the components fitting in it. I had no issue putting the cars together, although I do have the plastic ones as well. I didn't have any issues with people forgetting steps because I made everyone go through the steps one at a time instead of simultaneously the first round or so. After that there were no issues.
Weird review. If it was a TEN for me, I 'd make it a six because of all of the issues they spent most of the video talking about
I think my biggest hang up is Camilla's final score. Mike said he was teaching the game despite the component issues so I can understand him giving it a 7, but Camilla said she wasn't playing the game because of those issues. I would have a hard time giving a game a recommendation if I would rather avoid bothering with it. I understand she wants it to be better, but I don't think the game in its current state should be a 7 based on her talking points.
@@tehbige73 go look at their logged plays of this game in six months. Guarantee it doesn't go up if listed and totally wouldn't be shocked if the score goes down.
I actually checked in on a few games a few reviewers did in which they gave a higher score on video than they did in their own BGG profile.
Some of this is the attitude to appease everyone and not just be honest and score the game on the table as is.
As I said in another response, there's some really great insight into these games so it's worth watching to a degree, but if Tom or Zee isn't there there's just not the honest scoring DT was known for when it was Tom, Zee and Sam.
BGG thinks 7 is the cutoff for a good game, and anything under is iffy to a straight non consider. With that line being a known fact for years now there's no way a game you're lucky if two of those reviewers ever play again is a 7.
BTW Graeme Anderson is an extremely good DT reviewer, but lives in Canada so you don't see him with the crew. Highly recommend his reviews also.
What I'm hearing is that a digital edition of this would be great. But yeah, given when this kickstarter funded, Covid probably shot them in the foot from a components testing perspective.
One of two things happened here. It's either a good game, and too much time was spent talking about the negatives. Or it's a bad game that got a seal of approval. Either way, it was a weird review overall. Still love the 4 Squares format though, so thanks for the video.
Sure, it’s overproduced. And it can be a little tricky getting dice out of the plastic cars but the toy factor was a big hit with my group and I think it’s preference. We didn’t have component playability issues and I wouldn’t want to play the retail version if I had a choice.
So the first what fifteen minutes basically say the game is frustratingly unusable from a component and gameplay perspective? And then it's totally solitaire? I'm out........ Hold up 8/10??!?!
7+ is recommending the game and saying approved. How can we recommend a game that's a chore to play and use and teach when there are a ton of other games out there? Camilla actually said she wasn't willing to put up with the numerous issues of the game. That is not something you then recommend.
I would dock more than a measly point for shoddy components and graphic design and usuability issues especially when this is a publisher who should know what they are doing and was A Kickstarter! But lately there is a mentality with gamers that a game must be at least a 7-8 to be considered remotely worth it and anything less is terrible garbage.
Team Zee!!!
I think Zee was being too generous with a 5.
This is a classic example of why I no longer will consider crowd funded games. It creates a sense of urgency in the development and a preference for presentation over usability and gameplay. So either the gameplay or the usability or both suffers in favor of the hyped up presentation. I at one time went for a few crowd funded games that all ended up frustrations and now will no longer waste any time on them. Generally, I won't even waste the time on their reviews though not all reviews make it clear from the get go that it's a crowd funded game. In this case it was an interesting review because it confirmed what I have come to expect of such productions.
I will say, the scoreboard is awful … I used the Between Two Cities scoreboard instead. Aside from shallower dice wells in the plastic cars, scoreboard the only change I’d really have liked to see.
I can’t wait for Tom’s “This is how I fixed Monsters on Board”. I personally really enjoy the game play, but I agree that the components definitely hinder the game. The scoring track is horrendous. I think color cylinders with screen printed monsters, would of been better.
I'm not sure I want to? Seems like a lot of work.
Do they make Dice Tower Seal of Approval images with an asterisk that they can put on game boxes?
So that means, a game that was given the seal, but with a heavy asterisk, will still have the seal. That, to me, is a problem I don’t want associated with my brand. (On this or any game).
DT needs to get back to being unafraid of low scores.
Thanks for the review. Maybe the second edition then. :)
I was disappointed to find the deluxe version didn't come with the original parts also... considering the manual only showed the original pieces... actually had to go to the kickstarter page to see what was what...
So many problems with the production and graphic design deserve A LOT more than 1-2 points less on the score.
This is the new DT. Zee rated it as the old DT would and you could see the others almost cringe at how negative he was being.
There's a lot of good insight on these, but ignore the scores. What they say says it all.
@@MattD007 Well the old DT would have done thumbs not numbers, but- yes I thought the other's scores were a little high given what was being said.
@@koalabrownie the thumbs were better IMO. Was funny with the crazy analogues they described them as and the scores were looser.
Not worth it. Thanks, Zee. There are way too many games that are actually good to be frustrated with this average. Lots of problems right out of the box...no thanks.
I think you pick on some components without justification, i had no issues whatsoever with any component of this game and i had a blast on my first gameplay. It is a great game and you shouldn't kick it down just because you can't remember 6 symbols, or you have a hard time assembling some cardboard (which in the end looks great if you really put the effort). The dice get out easily from the cardboard cars, the monsters are not that hard to manage on their tracks, the symbols actually make sense (You have a foot for moving, you have a spider for improving spider jack, you have the 'eye' symbol which is found on piece itself, and the spookjuice symbol is easy to see. I think at this point you are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I also felt that you were influencing each other in what to say. I really valued your reviews until this one. PLease change my mind on the next 4 squared review.
I felt the same.
pieces were falling all over the place during the overview portion of the video...
@@MrDaveydtd Well, when i played it , not a single piece fell over, and i'm really clumsy sometimes, that says a lot.
I'm unsure what you mean by "influencing each other what to say." None of us say something in a review unless we mean it. If all for of us had complaints about something, we all felt it.
But notice that later on we all disagree on how much of an impact those things had and gave varied final thoughts. You might disagree with how we felt about aspects of the game,, but a range of 5 to 8 for final ratings speaks to being willing to disagree in a review.
@@DTChrisYi Fair enough, the final scores were really a surprise after all those negative comments. I still like you guys even if we disagree on some topics. Stay awesome!
I am annoyed at your rating just like you said to be honest. This game is lacking in so many ways being critical is essential for growth.
It really suorised me. We don't have any component issues. My wife loved the game. And casual gamers, had no issue with the game once I teached them. We played Ark Nova today with a casual gamer.
I had to print playeraids for new players... But the game is (Ark Nova) great.
I think this game easy to learn, easy to use and really fun.
We had 3 problems. 1. The scoring chart wierd and the markers too big. 2. The summoning stone, markers sometimes fall over 3. It could use some player aids.
But none of them is game breaking. And we like the cardboard fearmobiles better. They were easy to assemble.
I really don't understand the uproar about the components. We've played the game with lot of people and nobody had an issue...
And the Monster Mixer makes it even better imho.
There is no way I'd even try this game, there are way too many bothersome issues to make this worth my time. I'd rather play a game that didn't take this much work.
For anyone interested in this game, i have to say please ignore this review, it is an all time stinker!
I have played the deluxe copy and there is 0 useability issues. The game looks absolutely stunning and yes, it is crowded with the components but the fit completely fine and witk completely fine. Plus they look stunning!
The cars are absolutely needed or the dice faces will change when you pass them, i had no problems assembling them.
A reference card would have been useless and in my experience players never yse them anyway. Every action is taken multiple times a turn and you get used to them very quickly.
This symbology issues could be applied to literally any euro, including every garphill game that this crew dotes over.
Most importantly the game is fun and very strategic and genuinely different to a lot of stiff out there.
If you were interested take another look, its great.
I guess all the usability issues we had, and all the people we taught it to had, didn't exist? Also it got a positive review. Two 7s and an 8 is a solid score!
Wow what a mess!!! I’m so glad I didn’t back this game.
I'm convinced at this point that Kickstarter is not really helping publishers anymore. It is such a huge advantage to have the money up front, there is no reason to not use KS, but if you want to use it, backers are demanding about what bloat they want to see. This is causing a real problem for publishers with profits, components that are needlessly lavish, and too much content that gets in the way of a good product.
From the overview I sense no theme at all, and didn't see any original or exciting idea. Just tracks and tracks, and points. Looks so generic and uninspired. What a waste of the wonderful artwork. So sad.
I have to agree that the components do the game an injustice. And the theme is a bit childish for a solitaire puzzly game. I'd say 6 out of ten as it is; plus 1 if production was better
I vehemently disagree with this entire review lol...The components are AMAZING! I am sitting here trying to figure out if we even played the same game. This game is awesome! However, I love the DT and assume I am the one who did something wrong. Keep up the good work DT crew!
Serious? Got the game and love it. But don't you have issues with
-the inlay and fitting everything in the box?
-Scoremarkers too big and no way to track going over 100.
-Cardboard cars really fragile
The other problems I can overlook but the above mentioned are a nuisance on otherwise a great game.
I thought it was going to be about a party on a train or a boat or something with its name. Meh, looks like a trash game to me :P