CELL MAX vs BROLY: Who is Stronger? (Dragon Ball Super)

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

It’s hilarious that Toriyama can say in an offhand comment “with enough training, Mr. Satan has the potential to defeat anyone” and the entire fanbase will lose their minds

[@Geekdom101]

yep

[@ramonpagan695]

I know goku and vegita have been training with whis and now gohan without Intense training surpasses them, it just make no sense.

[@plotarmour1471]

@@ramonpagan695 he used new form to suprass them tho,not with his ssj or mystic form

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

@@ramonpagan695 It’s far passed making any sense at this point. I think the writers are aware of this. They know we just want powerful characters fighting other powerful characters, and transformations upon transformations are just for merchandising. That’s what Gohan’s new form is. That’s what all Dragon Ball is. The money is in the merchandise. If anybody believes Ultra Instinct is the strongest final form Goku can attain, that we won’t see Super Saiyan God Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Kaioken x20 at some point, then y’all haven’t been paying attention at all.

[@andnl9819]

@@ramonpagan695 did you have that same attitude all of Z as well? A toddler suddenly 3 times stronger than Goku, who trained with Earth's greatest martial arts master, drink magic strength water, and trained with God and fought the Demon King.

[@benwelsh5265]

I really love that one attack Cell Max does where purple Ki beams shoot out of all his spots. It may not be intentional but it definitely reminded me of that one scene from Shin Godzilla and given Cell Max has Kaiju vibes for days it fits.

[@soup_doctor]

I had the same idea. I think it was intentional.

[@arkkon2740]

This was definitely intentional, all the way down to the tail beam

[@KD-mh8kj]

Exactly what i was thinking

[@GooberGlumbus]

THATS WHAT I SAID XD

[@punctualkarma1557]

Gandora the Dragon of Destruction

[@SuperGiantNinjaYeti]

Regarding Broly's power increase between the two movies, I suspect it may actually not be too big. The part in Super Hero when Goku has to calm him down indicates Broly still has problems controlling his rage, and if that's the case then his trainning so far may have focused more in control rather than just increasing his physical strenght. That would effectively make him stronger than before when calm, but not when he rages out.

[@basimali619]

Actually, could possibly make him even weaker(for a time) since more mental stability means less rage

[@Cay9z]

My theory Goku is training broly to control his rage

[@mastertucker]

Yeah exactly, the implication is definitely that he's roughly the same or has not done a LOT of training to fully manage that problem yet. Broly movie Broly is still the max power we can assume for him.

[@SlimShadly]

@@Cay9z how is that a theory? We literally fucking saw him doing that

[@Cay9z]

@@SlimShadly We didnt see Goku have Broly meditate

[@acedatninja23]

I find it hard to believe Broly can't put hands on Cell Max Broly is a monster with his mind still intact so yea my money is on Broly

[@demontiming3234]

Thank you I agree

[@thanosbustedinyourmum]

I don’t even know why this is debated Broly is the second strongest character in the entire franchise behind Jiren

[@upfordebate7403]

@@thanosbustedinyourmum nowhere near 2nd strongest lol he’s pretty darn powerful but goku, vegeta and frieza have far surpassed him at this point.
Broly is probably top 10

[@thanosbustedinyourmum]

@@upfordebate7403 nope wrong not if you follow Canon. Maybe if you watch all those RUclips videos that 10-year-olds make

[@thanosbustedinyourmum]

@@upfordebate7403 those words are from Toriyama‘s, i’m not stating my opinion I’m only stating facts I’m only stating what was said.

[@kawakiuzumaki5934]

*IF* Cell Max had been completed according to plan, *HE WOULD HAVE BEEN* a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat, *BUT* since he was forcibly activated, he became an uncontrollable monster. - Akira Toriyama. How do people get the Cell Max in the movie is stronger than Broly or Broly can’t beat the Cell Max in the movie?

[@C4xJoe]

Literally exactly what I was thinking. And people running wild with this power scaling when it’s all wrong. Yeah toriyama be inconsistent but Broly was very clearly stated as stronger.

[@ciaoatutti307]

By the moment the movie is literally build around the fact that goku and vegeta aren't there mean directly that cell max become a problem only for gohan and piccolo that are weaker than goku and vegeta but if goku and vegeta was there cell max would have been absolutely no problem and they can one shot him easely in ssj blue so there is no doubt,cell max is just a weak villain that was strong only for gohan that stop to train and for piccolo that was weak too,i mean is obviously there is no question about it

[@knightgamer8440]

Dr Hedo said cell max was completed aside from his brain wash

[@zakh231]

​@knightgamer8440 Cell Max was forcibly activated, he wasn't complete.

[@n11124]

​@@zakh231didn't broly adjust to gohans strength and speed in his beast form in the manga? Only in super saiyan

[@kylek7686]

We need to look at Gamma 1 & 2. Piccolo kept saying that they are learning as they fight. The gammas are intelligent beings that adapt. I think this is a good insight into how cell max wud have been if he was complete.

[@DxnnyFanta]

I have a feeling gamma 1 will make a return in the series

[@AbsolutCrono]

Probably depends on how pissed Broly is, and how much time passed since Broly fought Goku & Vegeta.

[@Jeptheplay]

as broly and cell fights, broly WILL grow more powerful then cell and win!!

[@kamachitaksugifanboio9395]

@@Jeptheplay since cell max has broly Goku and Vegeta cells he can still overcome broly

[@holyflame2]

@@kamachitaksugifanboio9395 He doesn't have Broly's cell. RR never have acces to it. Stop spouting bulls***

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@Jeptheplay Except Toriyama said that if Cell Max (brain) were completed, he would become a warrior Broly Could. Not. Defeat.
He didn't say stronger than Broly, that leaves room for Broly to surpass him.
He said Broly Could Not Defeat.

[@UnwantedGhost1]

@@Jeptheplay It's more so that Cell Max wouldn't gain access to his full potential due to his intelligence being incomplete.

[@kelsieellis2414]

Who ever the writer says is stronger that's who's stronger... you can complain about power scaling as much as you want but thats what the writer wrote

[@reusaucey889]

That’s what I be saying gohan is the strongest states by toriyama

[@twontwon1827]

Yall do realize piccolo sensed brolys power right … yall forgot piccolo taught them fusion so piccolo would of corrected him if gohan statement wasnt valid

[@themastersofcomedy9277]

But broly wasn’t maxed power in the movie same with goku and vegeta

[@Dexuz]

Correct, although I'm not sure if Cell Max should be above Blue Gogeta just due to that, otherwise Toriyama would have stated that *not even Gogeta could have defeated him* but he said Broly, thus there's still the possibility that Blue Gogeta is stronger than completed Cell Max.

[@twontwon1827]

@@Dexuz yea gogeta definitely is stronger still because it was a gap in power between gogeta and broly !

[@twontwon1827]

@@themastersofcomedy9277 broly was at his peak limit ! If not he would of beat gogeta or closed that gap in power but couldnt !
Gogeta didnt even sweat him once he went blue
And goku and vegeta was at maxed power which is why they had to fuse ! Gogeta blue actually is his max power he has no form after that so broly reached his peak and so did gogeta

[@gohanblanco5641]

@@Dexuz He should be above Gogeta Blue too cause it has been stated that this Cell Max fight was the strongest fight in history so this could not only make Piccolo and Gohan above Broly fight or ToP but potentially even aboves GoDs.

[@Dexuz]

People always forget that a warrior's mental is just as important as their strenght; Gohan could have beaten Cell on his own, but his lack of confidence and fear lowered his effective power.
So yes, a Cell Max with his mind control program completed would in fact be stronger than his raging self.

[@Underworldwarrior1]

Except he is an android with no ki so that does not apply to him. Lol.
Androids have no ki

[@Dexuz]

@@Underworldwarrior1
Cell has Ki, presumably Cell Max should as well.
Regardless, Toriyama was the one saying that if Cell Max was completed, not even Broly could defeat him, thus, his mind control program would actually power him up.

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@Dexuz He didn't say he would have more power.
He said Broly wouldn't be able to defeat him.
Techniques, tactics, logic.... These all change the results of a battle without directly increasing power

[@Dexuz]

@@priestesslucy3299
And how does Broly defeat someone? Thanks to his clever wits?
No, he punches them in the face until they die.
Thus, if completed Cell Max would defear Broly, that simply means he's stronger in that state, and that he wasn't before; even with Broly himself it is said that if he could control his power he would be even stronger.
The other two options simply sound like coping in comparison:
- Cell Max is always weaker than Broly, but with his mind control he would be more focused in battle and win through clever tactics.
- Cell Max is always stronger than Broly, but without his mind control he simply flails around and thus Broly (who also flails around) would beat him.
Occam's Razor

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@Dexuz Broly's been training with Goku and Vegeta and Whis for how long at this point?
Just because he goes out of control do you really believe he's only flailing at this point?
And yes. Cell Max is stronger than Broly. Full Stop.
But the gap is small enough that Broly has a chance against mindless Cell

[@LeonYT.]

THIS is absolutely what I wanted to see
Gohan vs Cell was still cool though

[@SLYjaFOX]

I believe it goes back to mind over matter. Remember don’t know how cannon it was. But when Teen Gohan was battling Cell with the one arm Goku stated that Gohan mentally was thinking he was weaker than Cell because Cell damage his arm. There no telling really how strong Cell Max could have really been if he was “FULLY” completed

[@jelloistasty]

Wasnt he actually weaker in that moment in the end? Obviously not before his arm was blasted but when Goku tells Gohan not to worry about the earth and Gohan powers up his blast, cell responds by powering up his own blast and keeping his power above gohan. Then the others jumped in and helped distract cell so gohan could find a moment to take the advantage, breaking through cells beam before cell could respond

[@shockvalue5086]

@@jelloistasty vegetas blast didn’t effect cell gohan literally unleashed his 100% due to gokus speech and vaporised cell

[@newhybrid101]

Gohan had a power burst at the end.
Before that Cell was SLIGHTLY stronger
Essentially he had an extra rage boost at the end,and since Gohans power IS his rage you can say he was just stronger than SP Cell
There are a lot of statements in the buu saga supporting this btw

[@newhybrid101]

@@shockvalue5086 it was the classic hero limit breaker moment
Goku literally said "let your power EXPLODE" in the manga
This was more than Gohan going all out,he was fully unleashing his RAGE

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@newhybrid101 bear in mind Super Perfect Cell was comfortably stronger than SSJ2 Gohan *_with his Qi cut in half_*

[@accalade999]

Technically I think that the statement that Gohan said about Goku and Vegeta might not be able to beat maxell is accurate because he said Goku and Vegeta might not be able to defeat him, those are two separate entities from Gogeta. Gogeta is different from Goku and Vegeta even though he requires them to be created, there still three different beings. We are coupling Gogeta with Goku and Vegeta and that's why it's confusing but if you don't couple them together and treat them as three different beings than then Gohans statement makes! sense

[@Dexuz]

Either way, completed Cell Max should be Blue Gogeta level, as he would surpass Broly.

[@steevseagal5035]

@@Dexuz 🤣🤣🤣 you're exaggerating, surpassing Broly power level is a reach man lol

[@JewMaster69]

@@steevseagal5035 he said gogeta lvl. where tf do u see SURPASS?? dragon ball fans cant read smh

[@JewMaster69]

@@steevseagal5035 he said surpass BROLY not gogeta

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@Dexuz there's a huge gap between Broly and Blue Gogeta.
Cell Max is stronger than Broly but that doesn't make him Gogeta Blue tier

[@AxelNacho.125]

Toriyama literally Say..
Gohan Blanco>Cell Max>Broly FP. Is not debatable. Is a fact!

[@Gho5tProphet56]

A quick thought, what if Cell Max was in his second form cause he wasn't completely charged with power? That we could of gotten Perfect Cell Max if he had gotten to charge all the way?

[@Ethan-md5do]

No it was stated he was complete he was just missing 1 piece which is the piece to control his mind. Cell max still has the strength just a berserk beast like broly.

[@MoBallin]

He was supposed to have a chip that could control him essentially he could take commands at desame time probably have a Martial art combat style since he was designed to mimic Cell quite literally mimic fighters from Cell arc

[@marclenraymagdaraog691]

IT was complete form.. idk why they chose that form but I think they wanted that to make him more controllable. but still since he lacked the chip to control it it didn't work.

[@johnnyscifi]

Perfect is actually his third form...:)
Cell-Max mirrors Cell's form #2

[@manuelliberatore9598]

Well according to toriyama "if cell max was complete not even broly could defeat him". And since he wasn't, it's safe to assume broly wins. Basically cell max is stronger power-wise but he doesn't know how to use that power, which is actually kinda similar to broly

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

and due to the lack of intelligent, cell max probably wouldn't understand that he should finish off broly as soon as possible when broly can adapt really quickly

[@priestesslucy3299]

What's nice is that Orange Piccolo is damn close to Broly now

[@Mandalore_ultimate]

@@priestesslucy3299 I want to see Orange Piccolo vs Broly now

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@Mandalore_ultimate they even have similar physiques. That would be one sexy battle 🤤

[@ashworth770]

Dudes.. Do you really think a completed Cell Max would have made a difference? Gohan took a full powered punch from Cell and it did nothing. Infact Gohan used one hand to push Cellmax fist away. A completed Cellmax would still not have made a difference in the power GAP so if you use your own brain then you will understand Broly still isnt strong enough for Gohan who I might add was taught by the greatest warriors in the universe... and they all have said he has some serious depth to his power.

[@anewsteb]

Tough to say actually. Goku/Vegeta fused to defeat Broly. Gohan and Piccolo worked together to defeat Cell Max. Tie??
Edit: Broly wins because Goku and Vegeta couldn't win without fusing.

[@MaRgEd.ZamaSU]

Remember broly still training over controlling ki from going beserk'. Where goku and vegeta already training after broly movie. You can say he can't control himself . He is distractive.

[@ocaalways]

@@MaRgEd.ZamaSU broly is stronger than cell max easy. Piccolo would get one tapped by broly. Gohan would get overwhelmed

[@MaRgEd.ZamaSU]

@@ocaalways cell max is mortal level and broly is god level.
Gohan strongest in the earth and vegeta and goku are strongest in the universe 7 for now cause even vegeta is thinking what jiren is cooking where broly still stuck in chapter 1 of his training and everyone just ending the whole chapter of training.

[@breakablehate2207]

😭

[@breakablehate2207]

@@MaRgEd.ZamaSU I guess cell max is super Saiyan 3 level? Also Piccolo is on par with Goku. Idk if he's on ssbkk or omen ui or mui level😭

[@bryanperez4061]

Broly definitely Broly. He’s likely gotten stronger since the movie and gohan is just horrible at scaling. Plus look at the words they used closely when saying had cell max been perfected or completed not even Broly wouldn’t put him down as they’re using him specifically to show he’s the strongest they have now.

[@Nikketmzee]

Keep coping, you’re just trying to make sense out of this shitty power scaling. If the characters say something like what gohan did, it means that’s what the story wants you to know

[@nufiya999]

We keep forgetting this isn't scientific

[@yoooo790]

Broly is still stronger as a Single individual giving his zen kai boost as he figghts. You all keep forgetting that. But some of these dumbass gohan fans won't see it that way. And orange piccolo is only match goko in blue form thats it.

[@ashuraomega7113]

Toriyama doesn't know what he's talking about

[@yoooo790]

@@ashuraomega7113 and you do? Go over there and tell him that lol

[@ZayDeyknow]

Gohan tanked a full power punch from cell max and laughed common sense tells you he would easily without help blow him up

[@donavanboykin9489]

Facts

[@reusaucey889]

That’s what I’m saying people don’t be having common sense tho

[@cruelwraith2games926]

It's quite obvious that cell max will be stronger if he reached his perfect form and his intelligence was completed cell max Although an immense improvement upon the original Cell power-wise, he lacks some of his predecessors' special traits such as regeneration and absorption, additionally, his self-destruct ability's radius was toned down from the original, only wiping out a large area rather than an entire planet.

[@Jeptheplay]

this cell is NOT MEANT TO BE PERFECT FORM, this is his only form and he is just insane, if he was finished then he would be just like his semiperfect form, thinking smart and knowing what to do. but broly will surpass his strength as they fight.

[@MrJokerSenpai]

@@Jeptheplay Facts, he was completely finished physically, he was never meant to transform at all, toriyama just likes Semi Perfect Cell better.

[@Geekdom101]

@@Jeptheplay bingo

[@Geekdom101]

there is no perfect form man

[@Dexuz]

Sounds like something you would read from the DB wiki.
Oh wait, it is.

[@joshuaaboo4767]

Broly is stronger. Does anyone think Krillin can stagger Broly yet he did it to Cell Max.

[@jonathanl8159]

Fat Gotenks damaged him. Even if he was just thrown into his head.

[@joshuaaboo4767]

@@jonathanl8159 Fax.

[@Bahamutt.]

This doesn't mean nothing,by your logic krillin has the same power level of gamma 1, because they had the same result against Cell Max 🤷

[@Dat-Boi-Camoja]

@@Bahamutt. bullshit lmaoooo

[@Bahamutt.]

@@Dat-Boi-Camoja ?

[@buildaggedonarmanaziie4462]

I am not pointing fingers at anybody, and I'm not making a debate, but I will say this -
There are 2 types of people when they debate things like this:
1. The people who take statements at face-value.
2. The people who look for a deeper meaning to the statements.

[@ZayDeyknow]

You also gotta remember broly forced goku and vegeta to retreat and fuse they not even doing that against moro and gas you gotta be a menace to society to make goku and vegeta to fuse

[@rodrigop2198]

The fight with gas they didn't need to protect earth, and they had much better forms, and Gogeta in the movie is weaker than current MUI and UE.

[@ZayDeyknow]

@@rodrigop2198 gogeta blue is definitely stronger than UE vegeta and yes that obvious but gogeta will always be stronger than goku and vegeta since he's both of them multiplied together

[@buildaggedonarmanaziie4462]

Didn't you cover this, how it said if Cell Max was *COMPLETED* that he would be STRONGER Than Broly, but he IS *NOT* STRONGER, because he was released BEFORE he was Completed ? Or maybe I am thinking about someone else ! Anyway that is what I have heard

[@Underworldwarrior1]

The word stronger was not used. The word used is "Broly couldn't defeat" which is different because many factors matter in a fight. Not just strength.
Also, Cell Max's power was complete in the movie, only a mind control program was lefr.

[@Dexuz]

@@Underworldwarrior1
Yeah but how does Broly defeat his opponents? By slapping them real hard.
Thus, if Toriyama says "Broly can't defeat complete Cell Max", he means that Broly is weaker than Cell Max.

[@havoc9933]

No he did cover it, he just misinterpreted it, what you're saying is correct

[@Underworldwarrior1]

@@Dexuz Cell Max being complete does not even make him stronger. Just gives him a mind control program. This is why

[@priestesslucy3299]

Absolutely nothing is said about Cell Max' strength.
Presumably because it will not change.
He *is* stronger than Broly, but without a brain Broly has a chance to target his weak point.

[@joshualowe959]

If Cell Max was COMPLETED then not even Broly would have a chance. But this Cell Max is INCOMPLETE so Cell Max is somewhat equal to Broly

[@yoooo790]

Broly is using his zen kai boost. Then broly.

[@yoooo790]

I keep seeing alot of (If's).

[@maritimesteak8540]

@@yoooo790 it was shown in the movie that only takes him so far as blue Goku was able to overpower him and would have beat him without Frieza

[@shmeebs387]

I think Gohan could have taken Cell Max even without the weak point. He moved Cell Max's full power punch away like it was an empty shopping cart. It was like Perfect Cell vs Vegeta level of power imbalance.

[@fairyboy444]

i appreciate your willingness to dissect a single quote and it’s possible meaning. This stuff transcends years. Dragon ball goes generations. So, i appreciate you putting heavy thought into every little thing that i haven’t noticed. Thank u! ^ - ^

[@jwoodz2399]

Genuinely believe the anime adaptation (if they do it and I think they will) is gonna have a lot of dialogue changes to fit the current manga arcs and anime arcs by that point movies are written as one off stories that can then fit into the series as a whole later explaining the different continuity comment

[@joshkrause2977]

Cell Max is not stronger then Broly. If so then Gohan is stronger then Gogeta, which he isn’t. He could be stronger then Goku or Vegeta individually but not fused.

[@SlimShadly]

How would that make him stronger then gogeta when gogeta didn’t try whatsoever?

[@joshkrause2977]

@@SlimShadly neither did Gohan.

[@CertainlyCynical]

Gamma 2 blew off cell max arm. The guy everyone compares to goku. Yea that guy can massively injure cell max. You think goku can severely injure broly at FP??? 😂😂😂 Noooo, Broly slams!!

[@Underworldwarrior1]

He had to kill himself to damage Cell Max???
Self sacrifice attacks scale far higher than your normal power

[@joshuaaboo4767]

Don't forget Krillin staggered Cell Max as well lol.

[@rodrigop2198]

@@joshuaaboo4767 when you are off guard or just mind blind, you can be damaged by much weaker atacks, like KRILLIN GETTING HURT BY A BULLET, BUU GETTING DAMAGED BY BULLETS, so, fuck it.

[@maximoomega3691]

Piccolo also took out gamma 2 in his orange form and Gotenks injured cell max the power scaling is all over the place in this movie lmfao

[@joshuaaboo4767]

@@rodrigop2198 He also saw some attacks coming. The fact that fat Gotenks can take a punch from him is joke in itself.

[@LNTV1512]

I know that we shouldn't ignore official material, but I just can't see Cell max as someone stronger than broly. And I honestly don't understand why they're still rising the power levels, even when the main characters are people like piccolo, who don't need a Universal calamity to fight seriously.

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

Exactly

[@Dexuz]

So that Gohan and Piccolo fight against a big baddie alongside Goku and Vegeta.
Sure, they could do it regardless of their power level, but if everyone is strong, it doesn't look as silly, as it did seeing Krillin fight Cell Max, for example

[@mrsteam5515]

Toriyama does ass pulls sometimes. The growth potential that Broly has is greater than Cell max for sure. Broly can grow stronger than his opponents quickly.

[@JACQUEZJOHNSON23]

@@mrsteam5515 the creator> what u say

[@holyflame2]

@@JACQUEZJOHNSON23 Bro the creator literally written Broly that way... So it's not just his opinion.

[@vegettoblue8705]

Broly by far, Is not even a question

[@FEdelasJONS]

🤓

[@cinnamonpancakes54]

Even if Cellmax is weaker than FP Super Saiyan Broly, the fact that he is directly being compared to Broly says something, so the Cellmax we saw should be at least stronger than Super Saiyan Broly by a very big difference , so he should be close to FP SS Broly but still weaker

[@FEdelasJONS]

@@cinnamonpancakes54 He is infact stronger than all of Broly's forms.

[@rodrigop2198]

The author said if Cell had his mind, Broly was done

[@FEdelasJONS]

@@rodrigop2198 Cell Max would either way beat Broly.

[@NeverwascooL]

I figured watching the movie when they said Cell Max was weakened they were talking about the fact that you can't fight as well without both arms.
I don't think it actually took away from his power level cause that hasn't been a thing in the series as far as I know.

[@garryjohnson9328]

I will keep on pointing this out. Would Krillin 18 and Goten and Trunks survive getting hit by Broly when he loses control ? Absolutely not is the only correct answer. So how are we supposed to believe a machine created by humans that can't regenerate and has a weak spot was ever a real threat.

[@Bahamutt.]

Power level don't work the way you're thinking

[@trillytrent]

Facts... That would be crazy... Also if they was the case then they're destroying their own product as a show we all love... Like make it make sense... I also feel like it's way too many transformations way too fast now...

[@garryjohnson9328]

@@Bahamutt. 🤣😂🤣 sure it doesn't.

[@garryjohnson9328]

@@Bahamutt. I have been reading watching and consuming all things and everything dragon ball for 30 years I'm positive I know how the power levels work by now. How can you even speak on someone else's thinking ? You have no clue lmao

[@Chiefteeth1]

@@garryjohnson9328 your argument is ridiculous. 18, krillen and tien survived attack from beerus. The durability of characters in dragonball change from chapter to chapter so as crazy as it sounds yes I believe krillen and 18 could take a punch from broly.

[@davisking100]

There's more to gohans transformation than what we are realizing. Right after gohans transformation the music becomes very ominous and if you look at gohans face he has this very blank stare, almost as if he was completely different person or as if he doesn't know where he is all most like an out of body experience. He doesn't seem to come back to his senses until cell max rushes in and punches him and then he seems spaced out again once piccolo yells at him while hanging onto max cell. Theres something about that form

[@KoolKatBeatz]

Geek...man...
Can we PLEASE get a blast deflection theory video? Liike when Nappa's arm was numb when he deflected angry Gohan's Masenko? or maybe a video on what happens to a person during a beam struggle?? Like what it takes to win and the toll it takes...

[@sagovana]

No debate for me. Cell was incomplete and therefore weaker than he was intended to be.
Visually Max's form was similar to Second Form Cell (Semi-Perfect Cell) from Z after he absorbed 17, which is weaker than Perfect Cell. This implies that Cell Max had further room to grow in power as well as intelligence before he could be considered perfect. I also interpret Toriyama's quote to mean this. Not only was Cell Max mindless but his power was weaker than it would have been had he been allowed the time to be completed.

[@Geekdom101]

if it was that simple, i wouldnt have done a 26 minute video discussing all angles

[@sagovana]

@@Geekdom101 Appreciate the vid, I'm just expressing a part of my opinion. It's tough to highlight every facet of why I think that in the comment section without writing an essay.

[@ImAdaptking]

The way I see it, now that Broly is canon Toriyama will never let an unfused member of the Z fighters surpass him.
Broly is their cash cow, they won’t let anyone take his top spot unless it’s a fused character.
There’s a reason they’ve basically said Broly has just been training to contain his power, possibly a form similar to Kales, and not been training to grow in power.
It’s unnecessary because he’s already the strongest member of the team and they wouldn’t be able to control him if he went haywire without fusion.

[@drope9215]

but in the manga goku, vegeta, granola and gas already surpassed broly

[@ImAdaptking]

@@drope9215 can’t confirm that since Broly hasn’t been in the manga yet.

[@magnificentdumbass7700]

@@ImAdaptking He has been brought up by Goku in a conversation with Merus.

[@ImAdaptking]

@@magnificentdumbass7700 being mentioned by somebody doesn’t mean you know how strong he is my dude.
Did that actually make any sense to you whatsoever before you typed it

[@davidshirk9052]

@@ImAdaptking yes he was. At the beginning of the Moro arc he is pictured in the first few pages.

[@jesuspernia8031]

I remember back in the day before Super the debate was between LSSJ Broly and Perfect/Super Perfect Cell. And now that debate has come back lol.

[@joshualowe959]

No one is allowed to kill any version of Cell except for Gohan. That why Toriyama wants Gohan to be the Cell Slayer

[@bervicksimien2848]

This debate is pointless. In the DBS Super Hero guide book, it mentions that once Broly learns to control his powers, no one will be able to defeat him. Akira only compared Cell Max to Broly to hype him up. The fact y'all are falling for Akira's comment is funny.

[@amineramdan2856]

Toriyama was only comparing Cell max to a Broly who didn't learn to control his powers yet, and if you think that Toriyama was Just hyping Cell max then that's your opinion nothing else

[@axmendez1999]

Honestly even if Broly manages to control his power ssb Goku and Vegeta won't be enough tbh.

[@HHHspeedy]

I mean that was said before cell max and the same argument can be said for cell max

[@arkkon2740]

When all you get are statements to hype up your characters with the existence of retcons, they don't have much choice but to roll with it or not believe a word

[@fernandoenamorado2480]

You know people used to think Brolys power was limitless in his first movie but it wasn’t he just hadn’t really tapped into it and he kept discovering it as well as tapping deeper into it so it kept growing. He would’ve and did eventually
Max out but he wasn’t actually limitless power the new broly however is actually more more real to that idea. Also roles are reversed perfect cell was smart and calm and broly was a mindless monster now broly is regaining a mind as he did in the original movie in his base form and cell is the mindless monster I actually prefer it this way. But to add to your statement wouldnt that be also to hype broly himself up too? I mean they’re hyping both up but cell max would plateau even if he was perfect cell max meanwhile broly and frieza would increase but currently frieza is stronger than everyone easily

[@Simbino3]

Broly claps pretty easily even if cell max is perfected. He jumped from being weaker than 2nd form frieza in Z to being stronger than super saiyan blue in the middle of one fight, there really isn’t any way to stop that kind of potential.

[@lilikaramirez1848]

rock solid logic

[@SSJBlueVegito]

No cell max is stronger.

[@Simbino3]

@@SSJBlueVegito Broly would catch up to his strength after one punch then surpass him after a few more exchanges. He has no limits to his strength.

[@bigman9269]

@@Simbino3 fax

[@aubhrochakravorty3331]

@@Simbino3 Huh?? So u r gonna go against the author statement himself saying that Cell max would win?? A completed Cell max would be so strong that he would clap Broly regardless of his adaptation meaning that it would Broly vs Gogeta situation all over again. Like if the author says that Cell max would win, then its kinda obvious that he took Broly's adaptation into account as well before making that statement.

[@brap6557]

Another great video man, love to see a fellow Cuban be so successful at their craft, keep it up!

[@drope9215]

I remember they said that this movie would lower the power levels because in the previous one they were very high
and when the trailer came out, and knowing that the protagonists would be piccolo and gohan I thought that would be the case, but then the whole scale of power went even further to the trash with the dialogues about the characters, the comparisons, the absurd power up , etc.

[@mastertucker]

Not really. Cell Max is weaker than Broly. Orange Piccolo is on par with Blue Goku and Vegeta, Cell Max is only a bit stronger than that (as he couldn't just casually beat Piccolo), with Gohan stronger than that. ALL still weaker than Broly.

[@Anvaya24]

@@mastertucker nope, orange piccolo is stronger than kaioken x20 blue Goku and evolve Vegeta and cell max and broly are equal that makes Gohan as strong as mui or even stronger.

[@mastertucker]

@@Anvaya24 Lol no that is all just so wrong.
Toriyama said "Piccolo is on the level of Goku and co", so that means he is on their level. Even if we assume Toriyama meant x20 Kaioken despite not making that form, that would still make Orange Piccolo AS strong as Blue Kaioken x20, EQUAL to it - NOT stronger.
And Toriyama said Cell Max would be stronger than Broly ONLY if he was completed, so no Cell Max is factually weaker than Broly.
Also you realize that even when something is stronger than MUI, MUI just... Powers up to that level anyway right?

[@Anvaya24]

@@mastertucker Cell max was missing his brain his strength was complete.

[@mastertucker]

@@Anvaya24 That's just simply not true.
You don't make a difference between 'being able to beat someone' and 'even someone can't defeat them' with a brain.
It's physically impossible for the difference between "not being able to beat Broly" and "not even Broly would be able to beat him" to be just brain. DBZ don't work that way.
He wouldn't have had another form, but at the barest bare minimum - even if it meant having a brain only meant that he could control his Ki, controlling Ki STILL makes a POWER boost happen. His power would still have been increased by having a brain that could use his Ki 100% efficiently.
If Broly could beat incomplete Cell Max, that means he's stronger. Simple as that.

[@choawesome]

Regarding Jiren and blue Goku and Vegeta in the movie, as well as Piccolo and the gammas being mentioned as on their level, I think Toriyama wanted to level more characters into a similar tier to keep more characters story relative.
I like it, thinking in the vein of the “super saiyan” tier during Androids/Cell saga. Everyone was on the same tier, but there was a hierarchy within, especially when Goku and Gohan perfected it and could keep the form casually (Jiren in this tier I suppose). But my point is everyone was still relative and useful, which is enjoyable.

[@Charcos916]

I think Broly is stronger and Cell Max is stronger then he used to be but not on the level of Broly. I think this was mainly to bring up Gohan and Piccolo so they’re competitive and can keep up better with Goku and Vegeta. If not they will get one shot by most villains

[@ttahhhaaha]

DBS does yet another transformation thats a recoloring of a popular character. Truly genius idea

[@HORRIOR1]

I don't think we saw even a fraction of Cell Max's full potential.
The thing that held Perfect Cell back the most, was his unfamiliarity with all of his abilities. The more he learnt, the more dangerous he became.
Now we have Cell Max who is basically a representation of a modern day Cell, with DNA and powers from far stronger warriors, maybe even from Broly himself.
And yet, he doesn't even know how to regenerate his own arm. Which is why I think Piccolo didn't regenerate HIS arm during the fight, so as not let Cell Max learn about this, as he did with Imperfect Cell.
If Cell Max had his programming finished, he would know how to better tap into his powers instead of just wildly firing off attacks, just like he did with his finishing move. Heck, if he was as SMART as the Perfect Cell, he would quickly find a way to remove the self destruct mechanism inside him, getting rid of his weak spot.
However, the real reason why I think Cell Max's programming wasn't finished, was because he would not be evil. He was created by Hedo, meaning he also would have a heroic personality. And with a Cell Max level fighter on the side of the good guys, it would MASSIVELY lower the stakes for any future battle.

[@anthonyjames2755]

Broly would win period, Broly would keep evolving and quickly at that. Eventually he would smoke cell max. And I'm not even a huge Broly fan.

[@Ebbystein]

He has a limit. Once reached he comes back to his senses.

[@anthonyjames2755]

@@Ebbystein So does cell max apparently, so who do you think would reach their limit first?

[@Ebbystein]

@@anthonyjames2755 i dont really know. Every new villain is stronger than the last .So i wud go with that.

[@issy785]

it was said IF cell max had been perfected/completed in production, he would’ve surpassed Broly, meaning currently he’s equal or just weaker but not by much

[@mastertucker]

Not equal, definitely weaker. Orange Piccolo was said to be Goku and co level (which at max means Blue Goku and Vegeta). Since Cell Max was only a little stronger than Orange Piccolo (Piccolo could land hits and had the strength to hold him down even when weakened), that means Cell Max is only a little stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta and Orange Piccolo. Only a little stronger than Blue is much weaker than Broly no matter how you slice it.

[@issy785]

@@mastertucker though i agree on Broly being stronger, idk about saying Cell Max is only a little stronger than Orange Piccolo, OP did land some hits but Max was pretty much molly whopping him at the end there, damn near killing him
OP also did restrain him as you said, but not by much, CM could still fly and at one point got Piccolo off briefly right before Piccolo had to restrain him again right after
i’d personally say Piccolo is to Cell Max as Ultimate Gohan was to Goku Blue in the anime

[@mastertucker]

@@issy785 Well yeah, but Ultimate Gohan to Blue Goku was also not an immense gap. That is 'a little stronger'.
Full on hard line "This character is stronger" has to be unquestionable. If the characters are close enough in power to exchange blows, like Gohan's strikes actually landing and damaging Blue Goku, then they are fairly close in power.
Think of it this way. Perfect Cell and SSJ1 Goku were nearly matched (sans Cell not getting tired and healing). SSJ1 Gohan was a little weaker to near SSJ1 Goku's level. SSJ2 is a double multiplier.
This means that scene where Gohan absolutely humiliated Perfect Cell and the Cell Jr's, he wasn't even double their strength. And when Goku outclassed Frieza, power level wise he was only 20 or so% stronger.
If Orange Piccolo could get that whooped, get back up, and still hold Cell Max to the point he has to struggle, that IS a small margin of strength that warrants "being only a little weaker". If Cell Max was just flat stronger than Orange Piccolo without them being close in power at all? That's not the struggle we see in the movie.
You're either evenly matched, close in power, or one fighter is absolutely clapping the other.

[@issy785]

@@mastertucker ahhhh yeah, i see what you’re saying now, makes sense, i misunderstood that’s my bad lol

[@mastertucker]

​@@issy785 No worries it happens

[@MarcosAG90]

I think its cool to have Broly as the reference of ultimate power. Sure, restricted or controlled by whatever, but ultimate power never the less.

[@arturorodri1123]

Nice video. I think Orange Piccolo is equal to Gokus power level how toriyamas said, now you can interprete this how you want but I personally think Orange piccolo is just as strong as ssj blue. Now, Orange piccolo wasn't a match for Cell max, which didn't move Gohan at all when he punch him. I think that between Beast Gohan and SsjBlue theres an inmense difference of power, and the statement of Gohan saying that Goku and Vegeta may not be able to defeat Cell Max makes sense, of course talking about them individually. I think Beast Gohan is comparable to a Gogeta. This is just my opinion.

[@dr.lesbien9618]

Broly solo’s Super Hero if you remove everyone on Beerus’ planet, excluding Broly obviously. Gohan, Piccolo, the Gamma’s, Cell MAX…they all lose to Broly.

[@rodrigop2198]

I think Gohan Beast wins, cuz this cell is supposed to be around broly, and Gohan ate that.

[@karizma7716]

Nice joke broly fan boy Final Gohan Win low diff against Legendary super saiyan broly So Gohan Beast Won Easily💯

[@ghoztly7099]

I am gonna say Broly stomps. Simply because he was fighting a fully fused Goku and Vegeta, I don't even think Gohan's new form can touch that until we get more footage of both of them. That said I do think Gohan is the strongest character outside of Broly non-fused right now in that form.
Now if Cell MAX was complete, that is another story.

[@firionkaiser8291]

The entire point of this film was to show what happens when Gohan actually taps into into potential, he becomes stronger than anyone (this includes Broly) because believe it or not, his potential his still greater than his which Toriyama basically confirmed. Obviously though, GoDs and angels are the ones who aren't part of the equation. Compared to Gogeta Blue though, who knows.

[@themagpadshow836]

@@firionkaiser8291 he doesn't become stronger than anyone. That's bullshit. He has limits. No broly dogwalks gohan.

[@firionkaiser8291]

@@themagpadshow836 That was literally one of the points of the movie goofy. It's already been confirmed that Gohan's potential is greater than Broly's. Furthermore Orange Piccolo alone is said to now rival Goku and Vegeta and it's indicated that a complete Cell Max who beats Broly would have been around the same level as Gohan's new form.
Even though the movie outright stated that in terms of power, Cell Max was complete, so technically his power is higher than Broly's. Is brain just wasn't complete.

[@themagpadshow836]

@@firionkaiser8291 Aint a thing been confirmed potato brain. Pick up your common sense off the floor and go take a bubble bath. It's been confirmed already by iyoku that nothing in the movie surpassed anything in the broly movie. That was originally stated in a scan and in an interview Be mad.
He wasnt stronger than broly because he wasn't complete. Period.

[@sicarioz4739]

@@firionkaiser8291 Erm no. Broly has the highest potential in the history of Dragon Ball. In a matter of a few hours, he went from Base Form power level all the way to needing SSB Gogeta to be defeated in the Broly film. I don't think any Dragon Ball character had gotten that strong in only a few hours. If Broly ever learns another transformation or technique, the whole Dragon Ball Universe will probably crumble.

[@zorro8027]

It was stated that a fully powered Cell Max would be “someone not even broly could defeat” but the movie also revealed that the cell max we saw was not at *max* power. So that statement cannot be used to claim broly

[@Ethan-md5do]

Not really I mean Dr hedo literally stated cell max is complete just missing the mind piece.

[@zorro8027]

@@Ethan-md5do
Yes but as Vegeta also revealed in this movie I’d that the mind is very important when in combat. He claimed that in terms of power level, Jiren was not far ahead of them and yet he still matched MUI goku because he was using his *mind* to control his KI in such a way that blitzed goku and vegeta’s ability to react to him (which is why he seemed so fast).
So Cell max didn’t need to necessarily have a higher power level than broly in order to defeat him. They claimed broly “could not defeat” a completed cell max, not that he was weaker in terms of power level.

[@nickcarroll5840]

I love how toriyama included that little bit in the movie about how quickly saiyans grow from being short. Does he do that just to get his fans to argue about timeline placement? Truly a master troll

[@gamingwithchrisandshoutout6456]

In my opinion broly would win.

[@grimdaggz]

There's a lot of 'would' here. Cell Max was incomplete. His brain wasn't finished leaving him a mindless monster. His power is already at maximum, which is said to be stronger than Broly. Broly would eventually grow stronger than Cell Max. But if Cell Max was completed & had his intelligence, he would probably put Broly away faster than Gogeta did. Seeing this animated will probably make more sense.

[@joshualowe959]

Then how would Gogeta fare against Cell Max?

[@Underworldwarrior1]

@@joshualowe959 Gogeta would beat him.
Beast Gohan>Gogeta Blue>Cell Max>=Broly

[@sagovana]

Where was is confirmed that his power was at maximum? I highly dispute that claim. The Toriyama quote didn't say that.

[@Underworldwarrior1]

@@sagovana The movie itself did. Dr. Hedo said it

[@sagovana]

@@Underworldwarrior1 Can your remember which scene that was?

[@GoldenQ9]

Pridedwaif make so many good points i never even considered!

[@titanmasterrace4000]

It’s crazy how the z fighters don’t know about broly an goku an vegeta don’t know about cell max an gohan. Like literally the anime got so much material to work with it’ll be disappointing if they don’t explain anything or feel in the gaps.

[@VGarcia1984]

my vote goes to Broly bcoz both Broly and SSJB Gogeta shattered somewhat of a mirror dimension ( similar to Infinity Vision vs The Watcher from What If ) which is far beyond the reality where theyre ( Gohan, Piccolo, & Cell Max )where in💁🏻‍♀️💯

[@VGarcia1984]

@@yoshi-bg7hs taking that way to seriously lol💁🏻‍♀️😅

[@camerondavis8043]

Broly. This isnt a question

[@billylang9719]

Also fat Gotenks was able to crack Cell Max's weak spot. Even without going super saiyan. Makes me wonder how much damage he couldve caused if he was fused correctly and went super saiyan 3

[@amineramdan2856]

@@23Raind honestly I don't find Gotenks feat legitimate considering even Ultimate piccolo couldn't damage his weak spot, and we do know for a fact that Ultimate Gohan>>>>>>>SSJ3 Gotenks so ultimate piccolo should be far above Gotenks as well

[@swiftstreamspc]

I think this discussion should be revisited. I’ve done more research on Cell that proves he would scale even higher than he did in the cell saga especially with god ki introduced. Go back and rewatch DBZ episode 143. In this episode cell explains how he was created to be the “Supreme Fighting Organism” he is literally a fusion of the greatest fighters to ever exist in Universe 6 at the time he was revealed. That means cells from Frieza pre golden form, Goku pre UI , Vegeta Pre UE, & Pre Gohan Beast. So by having these cells in his body one could say with a new infusion with updated cells he could reach God tier levels. So if you infuse the new cell with updated Z fighter cells, + golden Frieza cells, you already got one potent beast on your hands millions of times stronger than perfect cell. Took 24 years for Gero computer to get it right. Took his grandson way less time. Credit to him for finding a way to infuse new “cells” for Cell Max this could also include Broly cells🤔. I’ll close with this Dr. Gero created Perfect Cell “the Supreme fighting organism” to fuse the greatest fighters into one cell and entity. He used an automated Tracking device as small as an insect to collect samples. His son presumably could have done the same with his spy bees to collect newer samples. Cell was made to be the ultimate fighter by being a combination of the greatest fighters in Universe 6 that have met Goku on Earth!

[@ozujordan6001]

You can find hundreds of artists on deviantART who could create a better sell max concept because cellmax looks like his second form but redder it's like they didn't even care.

[@YardratZ]

Agreed

[@AnnihaLARG22]

The statement he made about the next "villain" or opponent being stronger is not always the case, beerus was goku's opponent before golden frieza and we all know frieza is nothing compared to beerus...so that statement geekdom made is straight up false

[@AnnihaLARG22]

Plus saying that cell's brain was incomplete still making him a "raging monster" would have to be the same argument that could be used for broly since broly is not a "skilled" fighter but far surpasses goku and vegeta in power (excluding UE vegeta and MUI goku) that's unclear

[@cinnamonpancakes54]

@@AnnihaLARG22 MUI Goku and UE Vegeta are waay stronger than Broly lol

[@AnnihaLARG22]

@@cinnamonpancakes54 we cannot confirm that cause we don't know how strong they really are as well as full power broly....so to make a claim like that without any real evidence is pure headcannon

[@cinnamonpancakes54]

@@AnnihaLARG22 no not really , In The interview Toyotaro had with DBS manga Editor , he referred to the fight Goku and Vegeta had against Granolah as “the fight of the number 1 , 2 and 3 strongest fighters of the universe ,(excluding gods ofc) .

[@AnnihaLARG22]

@@cinnamonpancakes54 well...I need to see an actual fight cause statements from writers are alot of times contradicted by what's shown or written. Also the Manga is scaled different from the anime so that's another thing

[@buildaggedonarmanaziie4462]

I just noticed, in the original fight between Teen Gohan and Super Perfect Cell Teen Gohan had 1 arm, (1 USABLE Arm), while Super Perfect Cell had his 2, and now in THIS Movie, Cell Max is the one who has 1 arm, and Gohan has his 2 arms, anyone else, or is that just stupid ?

[@49rs1fan]

It’s both a great point and a stupid point 😃👍🏼

[@buildaggedonarmanaziie4462]

@@49rs1fan So... Is that a good thing or a bad thing ?

[@cinemamadness6920]

Perhaps a completed Cell Max could have had Broly's cells. So even if Broly power jumps in mid fight, Cell Max would too, thus, he couldn't beat him.

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

However cell max was machinal andriod that has all of perfect cell abilities combined plus he may not have the cells but he doesn't regenerate the body like perfect cell does but he does have so much power from doctor heto technology being advance not to mention the bug that collect data some how found away to make sure cell max had access tapping into this much power on it own without over heating for some reason the amount of shear power cell max has probably been generated the same power as bulma time machine but with better tech upgrade and more complicated way of being so strong however it only goes up to being close to being as strong as vegeta ssbe and goku uio which is way weaker then broly lssj by far so it would give broly ikari state a trouble time from 2018 let not forget freiza unleash broly most unstoppable power that no one could even match so of corse cell max is probably a better fighter then base and ikari broly that face goku perfect blue
Of corse it will take goku mui or vegeta ultra ego to defeat cell max however gohan scales close to cell max in his newly beast form since he was weakened by one of the gammas blast to give gohan beast the advantage to beating him

[@superskullmaster]

Broly only gets stronger as he gets angrier. If his power just grows only from fighting then he would have been hella strong when he got to Earth. But there is a limit to your anger and that’s what Gogeta took advantage of. He made him scared so his power would stop growing. He scared him so bad he snapped out of his rage.

[@presidentc4]

Broly WAS strong as hell when he went to earth. Dude spent him entire life on a deserted planet sparring with his weak ass dad and fighting giant caterpillars. Goku and Vegeta in a similar lifespan spent their lives training and fighting OP opponents. Broly should've been completely STOMPED by Vegeta when they fought. Effortlessly, in Vegeta's base form. But Broly was strong. Vegeta went SSG just to wipe him out and then after Broly lost control, Goku had to go SSB cuz Broly was whooping his cheeks

[@superskullmaster]

@truesky444 what was Broly doing as he was fighting? Getting angrier. Know when his power stopped growing? Once Goku turned SSB and that’s what Freeza saw as well. He needed to make him angry again so he killed his dad. Gogeta skipped to blue so he would have enough advantage to be able to toy with Broly while looking for a weakness. He realized how to beat him after the Stardust Breaker and that’s why he wouldn’t give Broly room to breath. He wanted Broly to be so scared of someone he couldn’t defeat. None of his attacks were designed to kill except for the Kamehameha.

[@mr.nobody4390]

Broly is still a Sayian meaning that he will get stronger as he fights....the added difference is that he can also get stronger the angrier he gets.....Broly is not your average Sayian....more like a mutant.....King Vegeta did call him a freak.

[@superskullmaster]

@@mr.nobody4390 yeah but it’s the anger that makes the huge majority of the difference. My theory is that Broly is the reverse of normal saiyans in which they have more S cells if they have lived peaceful lives and have gentle souls. I think Broly gains S cells in a similar way that Bruce Banner gains gamma powered muscle cells. It would also help explain why he gets so damn big after a while too. Like his body has to keep expanding to keep up with the energy surge.

[@sixpaths66]

@truesky444 no vegeta said he was learning as he fights.
broly gets his power boosts from continous rage amps and he adapts quickly because on top of being a abnormal saiyan he is also a prodigy.

[@guardiantree8879]

My thoughts, Gamma 1 & 2 are at least equal to SSBE Vegeta from ToP. They are potentially as strong as Goku MUI from the Moro arc.
Taking the low estimate, Ultimate Piccolo is probably around Ultimate Gohan from the ToP, Orange Piccolo would be around Jiren’s max. High estimate orange piccolo is equal to Broly’s max from the movie or Goku’s MUI post Moro.
I do think Gohan is now equal to MUI & UE forms, with a trained Broly being stronger than them (in the movie Goku said Broly is stronger than himself)
One problem is I don’t think we should underestimate Gamma 2’s final act. While his power might be equal to Goku or Vegeta, it’s possible his last attack far exceeds what they could do. Like if Piccolo & Goku we’re equal in power, Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon would be stronger than Goku’s Kamehameha.

[@priestesslucy3299]

That was an interesting suicide attack unlike any we've seen before.
The ones we saw in the past were all omnidirectional afaik, but that was concentrated.

[@adonicetrig8908]

The fact that we now even think that we have androids made by some scientist from earth on par with gods of destruction in raw power is beyond retarded, the writing is terrible imo, it makes everything our heroes achieved prior redundant.

[@nosroht13]

Cell Max doesn't have a person to fuse with once Broly catches up (assuming he's not already more powerful at this point) in power. Unless Cell Max can absorb for more power, Broly will eventually win. Considering Cell Max is a berserker in this state, I can't realistically see him formulating a plan to stop Broly before he catches up like Gogeta did. Can't reliably rule out who'd win if it was a Perfected Cell Max vs a completely in control Broly since we haven't seen either of them, but my money goes towards Broly considering his power is almost never static. Unless a Perfected Cell Max can make a large enough leap in power ahead of Broly like Gogeta did to put him down before he gets stronger, then it's almost always Broly.

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

Well this statement does prove if cell max wax completed that includes gohan beast and broly lssj incomplete state since then cell max would beat gohan beast but what about gogeta blue will easy answer gogeta blue still has the edge but if cell max was completed well he a margin stronger then broly fplssj state if broly had control over his power no one including cell max and gogeta blue would not defeat him so you have a point that broly has higher edge considering that he a sayain just like goku and vegeta who able to dominated jiren and moro and granola etc....

[@malchalati]

I think what toriyama is going for is what he talks about jiren. Jiren isn’t as strong as we thought but his skill and ki control is what makes him dangerous. If cell controlled his ki like that. He could beat Broly

[@dagetheevil1]

Broly was training with Whis' help, so it's obvious he'd win. Experience-wise, he's already much, MUCH further ahead. OG Cell was mostly a threat because his regeneration made it incredibly difficult to beat him

[@ImAdaptking]

AND his extreme intelligence and vast array of techniques.

[@nujissjiss885]

Just one day with whis and Beerus is enough for broly to one shot cell max. Broly knows how to meditate...it's over now if you know about the first ancient martial arts

[@ImAdaptking]

@@nujissjiss885 one day? lol
This movie is years after the Broly movie bro are you good?

[@seymourbutts5941]

Goku and Vegeta would’ve decimated Cell Max individually and killed off the gammas as well based on feats.

[@Underworldwarrior1]

Funny how Gohan and Piccolo disagree with you

[@Asmokedetector]

Statements say otherwise

[@amineramdan2856]

DB doesn't Care about feats my guy and do only cares about scaling

[@SimplyHawa]

@@Underworldwarrior1 Gohan couldn’t even tell that piccolo was disguised as a soldier, so I don’t wanna take his statements if he couldn’t even tell the power right in front of him was his life long friend 🧐

[@aidanp9918]

@@SimplyHawa well he could suppress his power but I do get what your saying

[@NeonAnimeDreams]

I think after reviewing all the statements by people that worked on it and what was said in the anime its safe to assume that Cell max is somewhat less powerful than Broly full power but he's more power than Broly ssj, so that places him above 2 unfused ssjbs but Gogeta blue would curb stomp him easier than he did Broly.
So where does that leave Gohan beast mode, I'd say Gohan beast is probably as strong as Broly at max power but not more because for one Cell was damaged when Gohan faught him and 2 Gohan had to hit his weak spot to take him out as easy as he did, had Cell not been damaged and Gohan had to take him out a different way it would have been harder for him.

[@briankangguitar]

Kudos to you Geekdom for not only delivering all the news and explanations for the DB Community, but for having to read and deal with the semantics of the creative heads and the fans when it comes to deciphering new information. That shit must be taxing

[@jollyking2413]

Wait for the day we see the power Broly has when someone says, “Broly must have got a zen Kai boost from his last near death experience”

[@jonathanjimenez55]

Well tbf he does have even goku n vegeta still have it since they have no limits. they're always breaking them

[@bgenes]

I don't know why people aren't taken into consideration that Gohan knows how powerful Goku and Vegeta have gotten since there has been a major time skip since the Granolah arc. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that he may have seen them go Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct during the time skip? People just think "We haven't seen Gohan train with them so there's no way".

[@younglionel88]

Bro you told no lies, I was just telling some fans that they was hypocrites because they was crying about Vegeta always losing and gohan just got a new form and won and they still criticizing him the hypocrisy is ridiculous dragon Ball has never made a movie and the villain wasn't stronger it just wouldn't even make sense for him not to be stronger, it's just a community is going against toriyama sensei's wishes of Gohan being the strongest right now even though he invented it

[@donavanboykin9489]

EXACTLY

[@donavanboykin9489]

@@younglionel88 IT'S NICE TO BE IN A PLACE OF FACTS

[@eliasandbros1366]

@@donavanboykin9489 From what we’ve seen, it would not be a possibility since Goku and Vegeta have never powered up on Earth so far. And for the movie villain power idea, Broly is way stronger than Bojack; a villain from a later movie.

[@younglionel88]

@@eliasandbros1366 you realize Gohan was there when his father fought Moro and he saw mui ki hologram 😕

[@ItsaMe94]

Man...I had avoided seeing how Cell Max looked like this entire time :(

[@anthonymurchison8035]

😂😂

[@michaeldavila9715]

SSB Gogeta > Gohan > Perfect Cell Max > Broly > Cell Max > Orange Piccolo

[@MAR-sc7np]

Toriyama did say that cell Max with a stable mind is stronger then broly. So for rn broly is stronger.

[@Underworldwarrior1]

The word "stronger" was not used.

[@fdar672]

So would that make gohan stronger

[@MAR-sc7np]

@@Underworldwarrior1 I gotta look at it again

[@Underworldwarrior1]

@@fdar672 Yes. Gohan bodies Broly at this point

[@mrrichard9657]

BROLY WINS EASY ......IT TOOK SSJ BLUE GOGETA TO BEAT BROLY ..JUST REMEMBER THAT BEFORE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS....NO VERSION OF GOHAN IS STRONGER THAN BROLY OR GOGETA..THE CELL MAX WAS OKAY BUT ITS OVER HYPED ..

[@Ebbystein]

The new villain is also stronger than the old villain

[@requiem550]

Beast gohan destroys gogeta

[@fidelsyrianoudis]

I read it as Cell max IF COMPLETED would have been too much for Broly to beat simply because of his intelligence MEANING that Broly is still physically superior but if you remember original cell was a combat tactician Broly isn’t the smartest so because of this Cell would have just finessed the hell out of Broly and beaten him

[@no1guy825]

For real, making a side story where Tien or Roshi teach Satan how to actually....be some shit. I'd watch it. Some nice small scale basic Dragonball stuff to contrast and contextualize the craziness of the big Super boys.

[@Ch4oTiK]

My whole headcanon about Cell Max is that, based on what we know about the Android Saga and Cell Saga concerning the information Gero had in order to create them being "outdated" (iirc he didn't know about SSJ), and thus their potential was limited by that lacking of knowledge, Cell Max's creator sought to rectify that mistake. He had updated info and cells from everyone, even somehow Broly, and thus Cell Max has all of that covered. He may even have Jiren cells in him or some craziness (how it would have been attained, who knows, but Gero got King Cold and Frieza's so...).
So upon completion he would have been composite DBZ-Super (and in fact was), but with the mind/intellect matching or beyond his predecessor as well - had he not been awakened early (halfway perhaps? Assuming complete Cell Max would look like Perfect Cell rather than 2nd form Cell). Instead he was just a monster version probably amped similar to Broly, if he had the cells, but even more mindless.
It might turn out that despite the first point/paragraph I made, they may still use a similar thing where Hedo didn't know about some of the post tournament/Broly stuff (concerning where Goku and Vegeta have been) and so it was outdated info regardless of his intent to rectify that.

[@justinmadrid8712]

Dr. Gero got King Cold and Freiza's cells when they arrived on Earth and Trunks killed them both.

[@Ch4oTiK]

​@@justinmadrid8712 Yeah, I forgot that there was a 3 year jump between that and when Gero first showed up.

[@HORRIOR1]

The strangest thing to consider is that if Cell Max had a brain, he probably wouldn't be a villain because he was created by Hedo.
Also if he was perfected, Cell Max would probably be smart enough to remove any artificial built in weak spot.

[@Arredo515]

Gohan went after the weak spot because he didn't want to accidentally destroy the world with a huge Kamehameha wave that would be large enough to atomize a Cell MAX Kaiju

[@djphantom210]

At 22:15 I see what geekdom is saying but we also got to understand that in dragon Ball super before the tournament of power even started Android 17 had caught up and not just surpassed Super Saiyan but even matched up with super Saiyan blue Goku

[@stevenwarren7633]

"Power scaler by trade" has to be the most hilarious statement I have ever heard. What's the salary for that?

[@Asmokedetector]

Broly fanboys: Broly wins
People who actually know: Cell Max is stronger but most gets beat by broly with extreme difficulty. Completed Cell Max mid diffs

[@Underworldwarrior1]

Agreed. And I think he loses only because Broly can adapt and Cell Max is stupid in combat unlike Broly who while he rampages as well. He has some sort of control over his power even if barely.

[@mando7323]

You’re slow…

[@Asmokedetector]

@@mando7323 says the kid named chuppy

[@garryjohnson9328]

🤣🤣🤣 krillin and 18 and Trunks and goten were not in Broly because they couldn't take shots from him and survive but they were taking shots from a so called mindless out of control power beyond Broly ? Does that make sense to anyone in the Dragon ball community ?

[@Asmokedetector]

@@garryjohnson9328 they weren't in the broly movie because they wanted to focus on broly. That's it, and the only one taking shots from cell max was gohan and piccolo, gamma 2 didn't even get hit by him and died from his own attack.

[@davidortiz3094]

This shouldn't even be a question. Broly dominates.

[@gohanblanco5641]

Cell Max absolutely slaps Broly out of existence. I debunked this vid.

[@d.r.8320]

@@gohanblanco5641 cope harder broly slams

[@xXSonTJXx]

LMAO you upload this after I finish recording my own version of this fight last night

[@plotarmour1471]

Haha you too here sontj

[@xXSonTJXx]

@@plotarmour1471 yes sir lol

[@AUDITHISWORLD69]

Right when I heard Cell Max wasnt complete during the movie first thing i said was we here goes the debates lmao

[@brandonwyatt8097]

Borly 100% goku and vegeta had to use goteta blue to beat broly

[@rodrigop2198]

Cell Max~Broly < Gohan < Gogeta Blue, like this tier has MUI and Jiren...yeah, just that.

[@ryanlee4273]

How is itsanimegirl getting more views than you on her new dbz content her videos are horrible 🤣

[@johnnyscifi]

He(Gohan) says he didn't know if Goku, and Vegeta could take Cell-Max. Didn't say they couldn't...merely speculating. Kind of like us, right now...:)

[@Ahloveyafuhso]

Why was this even a debate? Broly ofc!.

[@TreyHallRH3]

If you take the first statement from Toriyama at face value but with all context, Cell Max is undoubtedly physically more powerful than Broly. There's no reason to believe that he wasn't, seeing as Piccolo was stated to be on par with Goku and Vegeta and it took him and Gohan to defeat "mindless" Cell.

[@Underworldwarrior1]

Agreed

[@lloydbonafide3398]

Yeah but it took gogeta blue to beat broly. A lot of people dont notice this but during their fight, broly was catching up to super gogeta and started hitting him
Thats what made gogeta go blue and the power gap was to big. I just cant see krillin, 18 and fat gotenks help fight broly . But hey the creator said cell max is stronger so we gotta go with that.

[@TreyHallRH3]

@@lloydbonafide3398 I definitely see what you mean. Krillin is more of a glass cannon. Android 18 couldve probably put up a fight against Base Broly

[@TreyHallRH3]

@Vargen Fjorton He's my favorite GoD alongside Beerus and Sidra

[@TreyHallRH3]

@@Underworldwarrior1 Right. It just makes sense. Logically, why would Cell Max not ATLEAST be on Par with Broly? Or even Moro, who was confirmed stronger than Broly.

[@joshualowe959]

Broly would defeat incomplete Cell Max, but would get destroyed by COMPLETED Cell Max

[@priestesslucy3299]

Which debatably puts Broly in the same ballpark as unfatigued Orange Piccolo

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@thevipez8740 'Officially stated to be above Cell Max' _my ass._
It's officially stated that if Cell Max ('s brain) were completed, Broly would have zero chance whatsoever.
A fatigued Orange Piccolo rumbled with Wild/Uncontrolled Cell Max at a disadvantage. The same Cell Max that Broly would actually have a chance to defeat because he doesn't have a complete brain.

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@thevipez8740 I see someone who didn't watch the film.
The only thing Cell Max was missing was the brain.

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@thevipez8740 he doesn't say completed is stronger.
He says completed is a _warrior_ broly could not defeat.
He says incomplete is a monster.
There is zero, allow me to repeat, _zero_ statement declaring complete to be stronger.

[@priestesslucy3299]

@@thevipez8740 Depends on how you're defining strength.
Cell Max in the film has more power than Broly, but Broly can win because he has a brain and enough power to capitalize on it.
If you mean strength as 'Overall Capability in Battle' then yes, Broly is marginally stronger than Film Cell Max.

[@michaelomari8153]

Yo big D I'm surprised you didn't make a video on the saiyans height referenced in the superhero movie

[@Ennergyiezs]

Toriyama: Yes, Cell Max is way stronger than Broly and even Vegeta-Goku fusing wouldn't touch him
Copium-infused-powerscalers: W-What Toriyama said is false, w-watch this convoluted theory i just crafted!
holy.

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

It didn't say he was it says cell max was a soilder that broly would not defeat means broly does have a small chances of beating cell max since broly has a lot more room to grow in combat plus cell max turn into a raging monster