How can Christians better love Gay people? | with Dr. Preston Sprinkle | "Can I Ask You Something?"
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Having conversations about LGBT+ issues with Christians can often be divisive and tense.
We spoke with Dr. Preston Sprinkle, the founder of the Center for Faith, Sexuality, & Gender, so we could hear thoughtful and careful responses to questions like, "Should Christians use preferred pronouns?" and "Can I better love gay people?"
His answers will help you be more confident and compassionate as you follow Jesus and talk with your friends.
If you'd like to talk through an especially difficult situation with someone, you can reach out to WAY Nation's Prayer & Ministry Pastor, Dave! He's full of biblical wisdom and grace. He loves walking through life's difficult circumstances with people and helping them get to know God better... E: pastordave@wayfm.com
Get Dr. Sprinkle's latest book: amzn.to/2GZmgWT
Learn more about Dr. Sprinkle and his work:
Center for Faith, Sexuality, & Gender: centerforfaith.com/
Theology in the Raw Podcast: www.prestonsprinkle.com/theol...
Twitter: / prestonsprinkle
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![Preston Sprinkle: A Journey Into the LGBTQ+ Conversation [Biola Afterdark Chapel]](/img/1.gif)
As a team of believers here at WAY Nation, we don't agree on everything. But what we do agree on is this: Jesus was radically committed to truth while simultaneously radically loving others.
In this conversation, we're seeking expert advice on how to approach that challenge with people whose struggle is different than our own.
We're hoping to encourage conversation that helps all of us be more compassionate and understanding. Be kind and generous:).
You can be LGBT and Christian
@@ddrse no you can't.
@@EliteGaming110 They already exist.
@@EliteGaming110 some people are born trans so I don't think they should be discriminated against ( btw no one should be ) .
They are born that way .
And you should judge gay people too .
Because only we knows how good Christian we are .
There is no one who hasn't sinned .
Jesus himself told that . So who are we to judge ?
Everything is infront of you still you don't understand why ? It's ok to oppose the promotion of such things but not people .
Why you don't oppose the movies and modern culture which is so bent on making the mind of youth immoral ?
I have seen people opposing gay people by being too aggressive . It's wrong .
Do you not lust ? It's same with them .
If you want to change the society and help people first strengthen your own shoulders then go to preach . Otherwise don't judge people .
Just try to improvise yourself .
@@miller0079 that's not true, people aren't "born" trans. We are all sinners but God calls us to holiness just like He is holy. The only one that can save us from sin is Jesus, and Jesus wiped away the sin.
I was lesbian for most of my life, 25 years. I had a revelation and instantly was rescued from my sexual immorality. It's been an incredible journey. I'm trying to find ways to serve the LGBT community now. This is a great video! To anyone who is dealing with someone in the LGBT community, listen and love.
That’s amazing. How did you overcome the barrier of the Bible saying your former lifestyle is a sin?For many LGBTQ people I know this is a stumbling block, along with hateful Christian.
"Our truth can't be heard until our grace is felt." Loved that line!
Go through Jesus life person to person. How often would You think He is wrong then? What God do you believe in?
It's NOT our truth, it's THE TRUTH, HIS TRUTH.
@joshuas1834. I wrote that down. And to be clear, I'm not afraid of the word "our."
I listen to Preston's podcasts.
He does not compromise the Biblical view of marriage EVER.
I like that we have conversations like this....the church is sometimes afraid but let us talk about it....we all have unanswered questions and when we publicly do it...it gives others comfort too :) be strong and courageous my brothers and sisters...show the world God!
@Trey Fontenet of course I'm talking about others who are new to the faith or who don't know
I agree to show love, but the being over cautious about what to call people, starts a whole other problem. Adults need to take things in stride and not make every word spoke to them as a negative. Babying people to think they are so different that they behave the right to their own special words, that others may not know, is just ridiculous. You are not helping anyone by doing that. Yes, I treat people with respect and I do my known best ( the rules change daily) to make sure that i am being a light to them with out rudeness. But, by over compensating, we are making these confused people , to continue to pull away from others.
Jesus does want us to show love to our neighbors. But, you can not condone the sin. I am very upfront about that. And then explain why... because i love you so much, that it hurt my heart, that when we die, you will not be in heaven with me. I am a Mom, and believe in being a Loving Mama Bear for everyone. But I also talk to them about the why that caused these issue.
Over all, I am glad that you are speaking out about this. I really only dis agree on the pro nouns and titles.
jeannar1 I definitely agree with this. I’m personally operating on the mentality that unless someone addresses it with me, I’m not going to be going out of my way to be stressing over pronouns. There are so many things to be worrying about in this world and I can just do my best to be nonjudgmental and loving. I’ll make mistakes but I want to be an approachable person so that others can know that I’m a listening Christian and not a condemning one.
I feel like the comment section is a bit too public for those who have a tough story and need help to post on. Maybe you guys can provide an email for them to reach out to?
Great idea! We just added our Prayer & Ministry Pastor's email to the description for those who need help with an especially difficult or private situation. Thanks Sam! 🙏👊
Wow, this was really helpful to me. With young kids, I’ve really been worried about what the future holds for them and their relationships with others and how to teach them to show grace and truth to themselves and others. This has given me some really fantastic info to digest and go off of. Thanks!!
So glad I watched the video before going into the comments. I truly believe if more Christians listened rather than tuning out, people would be willing to listen in return. A lot of the comment section reminded me of why I stopped believing when I was younger but the video reminded me why I came back. I need to read that paper & share it (as well as this video) with quite a few people I know. That story with tone really brought back some memories.
As a Christian I refuse to use the wrong pronouns. I will avoid using any pronoun if the correct one makes someone uncomfortable. Language has no meaning if it has no meaning. I will call someone by the name they use because that is not denying the English language and what the truth, but I will NOT defy truth and call someone by the wrong pronoun any more than I will say 2+2 =5 to not offend someone 🤷🏻♀️
Oh my goodness. This is fantastic. Absolutely a lesson to be learned. I have used preferred pronouns for people before and have used the reasons outlined in the video. Why would we need that to be the sticking point of what we've said? This is such a clear and elegant video. Thank you. Sharing it.
I love this video I fully agree. Grace and truth not one or the other
Truth comes before grace. Not via versa.
Some of you it seem have never read the Gospels. Jesus does many things some of you seem to think were very wrong. So what Go do you follow? Or are you wrong?
@@NoNonsense77 You don't know what I believe.
@@benzcarz380 And I never said either. It wouldn't matter what would come first just as long they are both said and known.
Great topic and I appreciate the conversation. I do however agree with Origen17 that using preferred gender pronouns would perpetuate or validate the sin. I'm not sure Jesus would refer to a man dressed in women's clothing, identifying as a woman, a "she." The perfection and order of His creation fights against this sin and I believe lovingly confronting with truth is the way Jesus would handle this difficult issue.
Very well stated.
I agree. Yes we need to show Jesus's love, with truth too, to the homosexual people. However, I don't agree with what he says about the pronouns. Well said.
Great perspective, Warren. Thanks for sharing! Using biblical wisdom to emulate Jesus is what it's all about, so I love that that's how you're approaching this topic. - Stephen, the video guy
I agree with this too... I think that’s why we need to take all of this in stride and deal with it situation to situation. Relationship to relationship. If an acquaintance is insisting that you call them a “she” when they are a male, perhaps if we don’t want to perpetuate that mentality we can just use their name or use “they/them/you” instead. I don’t think we need to have an all/none mentality. But if a close friend or family member is requesting a pronoun change, maybe there’s more flexibility and grace for them based on our relationship to them. Or maybe not. But again, dealing with this relationship to relationship and not treating this as an all or nothing topic :)
Rebecca Ulmer I don't think it's fair to take it on a relationship by relationship basis. If I told someone my pronouns and we weren't super close, I would be expecting them to be kind enough to use them as if they pronounced my name wrong. It would feel "fake" if you only used my pronouns when you felt we were "friends."
Preston is so awesome, what a gift to the Church.
This is really good. Thanks for sharing!
Preston's comments about abortion are telling, and he seems to be contradicting himself. "The doctor terminated the pregnancy." This he calls out as language that is altered to make something evil more acceptable. But then he suggests we should accept similar loaded language from the LGBT community. Why a double standard?
Also, Preston has ceded the very ground he claims to be defending. He would, I assume, be non-affirming that a man's identity can be said in any meaningful way to be female. He has said as much in his podcasts. However, when you tell someone you will use whatever pronoun they want, you are affirming. It's as though he is saying, "I'll grant them this position now, then befriend them, then I will have the place from which I will tell them they're wrong about gender."
@@devinsmith2843 I’m extremely disappointed in WayNation for giving this theological quack a platform. This dude is a Trojan horse. He came to prominence with a pretty reasonable approach to homosexuality and then the grift set in and he went off the deep end.
Thank you for having this open dialogue with Preston Sprinkle. It was refreshing ❤️
I’m thankful for these conversations.
This is a difficult subject that I still struggle with. I very much agree that there should probably be a balance (as with many things in life)-truth with grace. I believe everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity as fellow human beings, not acting rudely or self-righteously towards others. This is a subject that should be approached with love and as much understanding to a person’s story and experience that one can muster, as to not further turn people away from God or harden their hearts. That’s the ‘grace’ part.
However, I also believe, as others have said, that Jesus would most likely NOT be calling a man who was dressed like a woman a “she” just because He didn’t want to offend or “trigger” their delicate nature. I don’t believe He would compromise His truth in that way. That would be going against His very own creation and His (The) truth and reality. I think as a society it only further validates and encourages their delusion. They have something else going on inside of them that they need to come to terms with and need God’s help with to overcome. This is the ‘truth’ part.
Having said that, I also agree with those who mentioned it may be handled on a case by case basis based on your relationship with the person, as far as the approach and balance of the truth with grace. I might call someone a he or she out of respect and to hopefully open the door of communication at a later time, but I will say one thing I will never do is call them a they/them/theirs. They are already literally trying to change the definition of words by switching them up and changing the culture; they do not have the right to usurp plural pronouns and further confuse and distort language and our society like that. That is the pronoun that really bothers me and especially one I cannot go along with. (See how many times I just had to use the word “they”, lol? It cannot be used for a single individual or it ceases to mean what it actually means.)
Great perspective... thanks, Bethany!
One of my favorite things to think about. "What would Jesus do? He would love first!"
Jesus would never call a man a she because that man wants him to. Jesus loved people but he never baby them with lies he gave them the truth because the truth is what sets us free not feeding into delusion. Don't forget in these last days people will have itchy ears wanting to hear whatever makes them feel good but we know where that will lead us. The truth hurts but I would rather tell the truth with love them feed into a lie.
He would tell them the truth. That’s love. He never minced words with what sin is.
@@fightthebully3331
Let’s be honest, when we say “Jesus would never do this” we are placing Jesus in this box of what we think he would do. Jesus did a lot of things that people didn’t think He would do. I could definitely see Jesus establishing a connection point with someone to say that he would use their pronouns but in conversation say that He disagrees with them but would say that He would call them by their pronouns simply out of kindness. The person would know that he disagrees but He would still meet them where they are at. I’m not saying Jesus would do that, but I’m not going to say He wouldn’t either. You can think it’s enabling them, but if they know you disagree with them and that relationship is one that has respect to it, why is it wrong to do so for someone to use pronouns?
@@gingy23ben5 Christ showed us exactly how he operates in the recording New Testament scriptures. If you actually read it you will know. There is no guessing on that. He doesn't play around with lies or sugar coat them to make someone feel comfortable. This isn't a game. He made it real clear that if we don't believe in him we will die in our sins. John 8:24. Because he is the only truth. John 14:6. And that anything that goes against that truth is strictly from Satan the true father of those that choose to believe and live a lie! John 8:44.
@@fightthebully3331 Hey man, the condescension is not really appreciated. Everything I have read from Preston Sprinkle is definitely in line with Scripture. I don’t agree with him on everything but he does his research, he knows his stuff and very well has the Bible as His authority. If you don’t believe that, then I’m sorry, but you are severely mischaracterizing him and I would say that is way worse than what you are claiming he is doing. I have a firm grasp of the Bible, so let’s not resort to attack okay buddy
I don’t believe there is “your truth” “my truth” “their truth” Jesus only said “I AM the way THE TRUTH and the light no one comes to the father except through me.” The truth can’t be changed , there is only ONE truth.
He is referring to The Church’s Truth that is being communicating to the world. Yes, it’s Truth! But when it’s being communicated to others, He is referring to the Truth that Christians hold to which is Our Truth. What we believe wont be heard unless the grace we show is felt.
You know what I find interesting about these type of conversations is that we in our western world are not good at talking about sin because we've made our buildings " seeker-friendly." It's not WHAT we say,but HOW we say it. 2nd,"Are using God's word as our moniker on the subject or our opinion. 3rd,1 Peter 3:15, tells how to " give an answer for the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." One can't give an answer without LISTENING 1st.4th, don't expect the world to agree with everything that we say from the Word of God,for people have choose Jesus for themselves.
Wow thats a really good conversation.
I don't judge people no matter who they are .
I can't because I know I am not exactly sinless .
So who am I to judge .
But I keep trying and trying to improve myself and sometimes I feel too lonely about it .
But then I remember God and I don't feel like I am alone .
I love everyone and everything .
Trees , animals , birds , people ( no matter who they are and what they do )
Everyone is so busy and deep in illusion of things and worldy life . It's feels so childish sometimes .
It's like a wonderful play of things .
Everyone and every being is so divine and beautiful .
And I really know there is no one that can't be saved .
And it's not about gay or being straight .
It's about lust .
Lust is one of the enemy and most powerful one for us all that keeps us blind .
And whether gay or straight it's a sin to lust .
It may seem so normal that it's natural and what not .
But it's not natural .
Love is natural . There no sin in love or even in sex but lust is bad for anyone .
Well at the end of the day I only pray for well being of all whether gay or straight , Christian or non Christian .
"How can Christians better love Gay people?" Live your faith by loving them and stop with pestering them and nagging them and yapping at them from your own self-righteousness. See how easy that was?
Thank you Preston !
YES
I get what he saying on the one hand about using pronouns that don’t trigger a person. I certainly don’t want to trigger a person and I don’t think it would be loving to do. On the other hand I just can’t bring myself to violate my conscience (ex. refer to a biological male as she/her or call someone Nancy when they’re really Nick)
I think the name is less of an issue. Obviously we have names that tend to be used of one sex or the other but it seems to me that as an act of hospitality, it's probably an acceptable compromise if someone is that far along to use their new name. Not ideal but necessary in some cases. The pronouns are more difficult because it is a more direct reference to the reality of a sexual distinction. I think Preston's suggestion of using 'they' is the best option - it's clunky and not ideal but again if someone's so far along, you don't want to throw up walls for no reason. You don't want to affirm a false pronoun but if someone has a visceral reaction to their biological pronouns, especially because many of them have felt constricted by a certain gender identity because of false and sinful societal pressures not of their own doing, I think using their true pronouns can end up, to them, not affirming truth but triggering painful thoughts of those impressions. I wouldn't use male pronouns for a biological female or vice versa but I think Preston's suggestion is an acceptable accommodation.
I left my church years ago I came out as transgender about 2 years ago and my mom was the only person who helped keep me connected with God and my faith she passed last year and I’ve been struggling since I don’t feel welcome at that church anymore and by most Christian’s anymore and I would not change who I am God made me and I don’t think anyone has the right to tell me who God ment for me to be but I want other Christians to understand that we need them to understand and live us no matter what because that’s what God would do
No. God doesn't love us no matter our sin. And no, God did not made you this way. And No, children of God are never to love sin.
Ima pray for you and your journey. I think we underestimate the feeling of not feeling welcome somewhere you should have every right to be. I rly hope you find peace and strength as you journey through core hard questions. Stay close to God, plz don’t let ppl cause you to become disillusioned with the faith. We’re all trash in different ways, and sometimes ppl are trash in that judgmental, prideful sense. But the Love of Christ still reigns supreme. As long as you continue to call Christ both Lord and Savior, you’ll make it. It may be hard, but you CAN find your way to thriving. Praying now. God bless you and your path in Jesus name… amen.
Ps
DO NOT disconnect from a church body. There’s too much power and authority that individuals need which only a connection to the church and the body grant access to.
This is an old post, but please know that there are Christians who love and affirm you and your identity. I think it’s unfortunate that so many believers want to put God in a box and believe they know his plan for your life. Be who you are and find a faith community that values you. ❤️
I am so incredibly sorry for your loss, and I hope you're doing OK now. Losing a parent is awful, I lost my mum 6yrs ago now and there's not a day goes by that I don't miss her.
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome at your church. Have you looked for LGBTQ friendly churches or Christian groups? I lost my faith when my Mum passed, but she and the Lord sent me a sign, or at least I took it that way (I was listening to music one day whilst I sat and cried and missed my Mum and "The Other Side" by Lauren Alaina came on and I took that as a message from my Mum since it would have been her birthday. Sure, it was probably just the RUclips algorithm doing its thing but I believe it was a message from my Mum that she's OK, she's with the Lord, and he's real, his love is real and it's time for me to find my way again. I found an amazing church where most of the congregation is old, gay or both 😂 and the priest is also part of the LGBTQ Community, as was the previous priest who lived in the rectory with his life partner. And it's great...they don't judge me by who I love, they judge me as a man who looked after his mother for 12 yrs, who's starting his life in his 30s instead of late teens, who works in healthcare, who cared for the sickest patients throughout the pandemic, who went to give a kidney to a stranger in need (sadly I was unable to donate but I'd have done it) - they judge who I am, not who I love. I admit my story is different to yours, I'm gay, not trans, but I found good Christian people who don't get hung up on one little part of who you are and I know you can to if you want to. And I know how judgemental "Christian" people can be, especially those preaching their interpretation of the bible to us to make us feel small and worthless, but they're not true Christians and I am certain they won't be getting into the kingdom of heaven - I've been made to feel extremely unwelcome, and even went back into the closet so my Mum could have bible studies with a Jehovah's Witness (my mum was too ill to leave the house in the last years of her life and the JWs were the only ones who'd come around for a study - Lord knows the Anglican church turned their backs when my Mum needed them). So I've been there, but don't let those who've twisted God's words of love into hate destroy your faith - if you believe in the Lord, if you want to worship, find your people - I'm sure there will be an LGBTQ Christian group near you (there's my church and another group in my town and I live in the middle of nowhere in England so I'm sure you can find something if you want to).
Sending love your way. Take care, and God bless.
How can I help my friend to plant the seed thru them I want to help them out but I he doesn’t want help at all trying to talk to him about it and want to help out but he’s stubborn about it
Hey Jenny, I'm sorry you're hitting a roadblock when trying to help your friend. Preston has a lot more resources that might help enlighten your situation, but I hope you can also rest in the fact that God changes hearts. St. Augustine said, "Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you." so I hope you'll keep loving on your friend and also take advantage of resources like the WAY Nation Prayer Wall to ask God to change your friend's heart. We love you and are cheering for you as you represent Jesus to your friend. - Stephen
waynation.com/pray/
There is no middle road . Either you follow the word of God or you don't. We all make mistakes and some need the correct alignment(time) to see the answers/truth/light. I know for certain we are not on the same path as anyone else. Altho i may be in a same:same circumstance, facing the same desicions as someone else. No one has come from the same places and also going to the next places with the same thoughts and experiences. I am individual and i belive the truth will be spoken in the streets and during supper. God bless
Looking at all the great comments. One thing to note is it is not just about sin and truth as others noted but it is also about not LYING. God hates that and that (as a Christian) would cause us to lie and embrace sin by lying vs speaking the truth in love
The problem is, most people don’t know what love is. Love is not a feeling, it’s a commitment. And as Christians, we are called to stand on and speak the truth in the same way Jesus did. Therefore, when addressing a transgender, and calling them by their biological pronoun is love because you’re speaking truth. We can’t let the world redefine truth or love.
I am a christian and a family -friend of mine just changed his last name to his boyfriend's last name, should I honor that change or should I call him by his original last name?
Allison Bryson Use they last name he asks you to use.
Even though Jesus loved all, he did not expect their sin.
I believe as Christians we should love ALL people. We ALL have a proclivity to sin and ALL sin is wrong. We should accept all people as sinners Christ died for so they could be saved, but we should never accept that Jesus died so we could stay and keep our sinful identity.
Well said. 😊
It is the Holy Spirit that divinely persuades someone. It is actually enabling the individual in their delusion and deception to refer to them outside their nature. You'd be calling them the exact opposite of who God calls them either male or female after His image
I don't think Sprinkle is a bigot. But a married straight man telling gay people that we must be lonely, isolated and alienated is kind of despicable. And let's be frank here, I learned as a gay celibate Christian that conservative Christian's will hate you now matter what you do.
I found this video because this is a question that I am personally struggling with. I try my best to focus on my commonalities with the gay person, but I always feel like it's hard to avoid the rainbow colored elephant in the room. Thank you for having this conversation.
A Christian does not have permission to participate in a lie for the sake of being kind. Using preferred pronouns is lying and further aids narcissism and confusion. That’s neither loving nor kind.
This.
There is no hate like Christian love.
TRUTH + Love
is there a reason for the choice in capitalization?
Most churches will not even say it’s a sin honestly and that’s sad. No wonder why nobody knows the truth.
Most churches will not even say it's a sin? Hmm....Have you ever wondered why? Maybe because they refuse to blindly follow a book full of inconsistencies and errors and choose to follow their own heart to love their neighbor as themselves and let God be the judge of what is sinful or not.
I will call them by their name. That’s a sign of respect. Female and male names are arbitrary. Pronouns represent categories of real things. If I would’ve called therm by a pronoun that does not exist I would be communicating a lie to them and to the world that’s watching. So call the them by their name because it’s respectful. But I would never use a pronoun because pronouns aren’t personal… Pronouns don’t belong to them. Their name is theirs and I will respect them by calling them that
No... we do not compromise with the world.
Here is what the Christian New Testament says about LGBTQ+
- Romans 1.26-27
- 1 Corinthians 6.9-10
- 1 Timothy 1.9-10
- Jude 1.7
A lot of he said she said here… suggesting praying away the gay does more bad than good I would say is dangerous territory. Then give some arbitrary story of people you know like it covers the entire population. This guys perspective is being formed by those around him and not by the one who sits on the throne!!!
Folks, you cannot bring up a topic like this and only allow "way to go!" "I agree!" remarks. Dr. Sprinkle may be a published author and have a seminary degree, but that does not make him an expert, only another opinion. Seems nice enough, if not a bit millenial-ish, but why don't you bring in Dr. Michael L. Brown for another opinion?
Thanks for sharing your opinion! We had to re-upload the video because of a graphics issue and all the comments on the old post were subsequently deleted. We didn't remove your comment because you disagreed. I'll be sure to look up Dr. Brown and listen to what he has out there!
What's wrong w/'Hey you! Yeah, You!!'
This is not correct at all. If someone sits in a garage and want you to let them drink oil and gas and call them a car you do not do it if you love them. If you love them, you lovingly correct them and explain that will harm them so you can't go along with their delusions. God loves them. He said things are sins. If I believe God is God, I have to lovingly tell people I believe God knows better than us and He says we should not do certain things. Adultery, fornication and these sexual sins. Furthering the delusion is not love. It is in fact hate. Jesus offended everyone. Some need to actually read books and chapters not keep taking aa few verses out of context and making a new religion to be liked. This is pride and also a sin. Jesus says we die to our pride. Not feed it. If you are actually a Christian Jesus said the world will hate you. We lovingly speak truth. Not to be hateful.
Okay, let’s bring this scenario. Suppose you sit down with someone who is transgender and you know they are transgender. You ask them questions, and you get to know them and the topic of faith comes up. You ask a question, and they tell you they aren’t a follower of Jesus and they hate Christians because they feel Christians hate them. You then continue a conversation and explain your viewpoint. You explain that you would say that there are only two genders but that doesn’t change how you view that person. You then ask about pronouns and you say, what pronouns do you use? They say, I prefer ‘ she’ when it’s actually a guy. In this circumstance, is it wrong to call them by their pronouns? Is it unloving to not call them by their pronouns? Are we going to say it’s wrong to use their pronouns when they know you disagree with them but you show kindness anyway to use the pronouns they like. To me, this sounds more like kindness rather than affirmation. It sounds more like creating a bridge to establish influence in a person’s life than affirming their choice. Sure, you can disagree, but the intention of someone who does this is not to affirm their gender identity but rather to treat that person with kindness so they will be more compelled to listen to the Truth. A relationship is vital for the Gospel to be heard by someone who disagrees with the Gospel. They need our grace, and love in order for Truth to be heard. Yes, we can tell the Truth, and we can plant seeds, but how many seeds have been planted because someone was a jerk about sharing the Gospel in the way they did? Examples include: Only sharing their viewpoint, not listening to the other’s perspective, trying to fix the person before really knowing the person. Yeah, Christians have been sowing bad seed for years. If we are going to share The Truth, why not do it right? Why not listen, empathize and be kind? It makes much more sense
Answer is No: we will not use "proper " pronouns. If it's a man, it's a man. If it's a woman, it's a woman.
I like that there is an effort to be more open to the LGBTQ community, but to what end? By now, I'm sure the organized church has been hit hard with this community leaving the Church, so it makes sense to stop that flood gate. However, at the end of the day, what is the goal? To keep people from leaving the Church? If at the end of the day the Church's stance is love the sinner not the sin, and it is considered sinful to show love in ways that is not acceptable to God (sexual acts between a man and woman only and for the purpose of procreating) than what does all the active listening accomplish?
A sexual act should only be for the purpose of procreating, you say? Are you listening to yourself? So it's a sin then for infertile, aged, or couples who just don't want children to have sexual relations? And this makes God irate? Guess I didn't get the memo.
It accomplishes that you have treated that individual as a person made in the image of God and not someone you are trying to change. You have sown a seed of love that might help them see that Christians are loving despite their disagreement towards a certain viewpoint or how someone identifies
He is right when he says Christians should listen a bit more. I think (personally) most of this stuff comes from a psychological place where someone is either abused or doesn't know how fit in based on their sex. Affirming this in any way (including pronouns) seems like walking down their path, which we know to be wrong. I think we have to have God's love when talking to LGBTQ people in understanding them but also letting them know the truth, no matter how much it upsets them.
When a child does wrong, we do not affirm his/her decision. We may listen to the story being told and how the kid felt, but then at the end comes the correction...the truth. How the kid should not lie or how what they did was wrong. We have the love to understand the "why" BUT also the love to tell them what is right and wrong.
The problem with your analogy is you're not talking to a child, you're talking to adults. Yes, we are all God's children, but you don't need to share your "truth" with an LGBTQ person if you know its going to hurt them, which considering you're using the analogy of a child doing wrong and needing correction, I'm assuming your truth would be offensive.
I found a fascinating article from a theology professor about the bible, and particularly the verse so often thrown in gay people's faces - "you shall not lie with a man as one does a woman, it is an abomination" and the article put forward a breakdown of the original Hebrew wording, and proposed it actually was referring to pederasty and not homosexuality. Definitely worth a look.
But back to your comment. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but why should you have to give your truth to a grown adult? Let them live their life, it doesn't have to effect your life in any way. Before you reply with how you're trying to make them see their wrongs and save them, I can guarantee all you're going to do is hurt them, you're going to make them feel awful. And you're not going to save them, you're going to push them away from the church, they will feel resentful. No christian discusses heterosexual romance or sex, it's always gay sex that's the target, and as such it's very isolating, especially for a gay man or woman who attends church, who has faith, to be told constantly that because of who you love you're not worthy of heaven or the Lord's love. If you really want to save gay people love them as people, as your neighbour, don't judge them. I can guarantee if you put the effort in to seeing them as a man, not just a gay man, you're more likely to save them...after all, let he who is without sin cast the first stone - as I'm sure you well know, there is no one on this earth who has not sinned.
Of course not, lol.
One minute forty two in and he has stated his position. this is expert advice from one side only,based on opinions of what is the right way. He argues about the clarity of scripture,I think that on the cross there was nothing but love, pure presence of the fathers unbridled love for us. This straight man claiming he understands the lgbti and basing this on clarity of scripture is nothing short of rampant opinion, much like saying, love the sinner hate the sin. The cross had no space for hating anything. And this whole discussion weaves its way to defining man’s opinion of what god wants based on man’s opinion as described in the bible. I do not mean what Jesus said I mean what others like Paul said which were opinions. Better to follow Jesus, who walked away from convention and just loved all. Christian’s claim ,I won’t lie regarding pronouns but how many times did they say to those close to them those little white lies and that was different. You are not lying to show respect, what you are doing is showing respect, now that pleases Jesus. So get a grip and start looking to the cross and put those judgmental ways aside. Now you show the father in heaven with your kind eyes and gentle voice.
You catch more bees with honey.
We aren't trying to catch anyone though, it is the Holy Spirit to divinely persuade someone. It is actually enabling the individual in their delusional deception to refer to them outside their nature.
Wear a pink dress?
To TRULY LOVE someone is the Tell them THE TRUTH!!! With LOVE Always but ALWAYS in TRUTH.. you don't want to "Love" them on their way to HELL cuz Folks, THAT is NOT LOVE!!!
oh dear! So disingenuous. Tell them the "truth"? You mean the truth you got from a notarized memo directly from God or from a book full of inconsistencies and errors that has been plaguing mankind with strife and misery since the beginning of time?
Life is so simple.
So let me explain it for you.
God Himself wrote the Holy Bible for His human being creations to learn the truth on how to live. His way in His world with His rules.
You and I are a creation. Once never existed and now exist. He is the Creator. You and I are the thing that never existed. The creation. You and I were created in a factory called the womb. And life given to us by God.
God gave us life. This is Gods world. These are His rules for you written down in plain English in the Holy Bible.
You can listen to His rules or you can choose to ignore them.
But if you break any of Gods rules, it is called sin. Sin is real. God is real. Jesus is real and punishment for sin is real here on earth as you live and after when you die.
Why do you think as a creation who once never existed you can change Gods rules which are eternal and never changing? Who do you think you are?
What is happening today is creations think they can do whatever they want in life. They think it’s their life. But it’s not your life. Life is a GIFT from God. He created you. He gave you life. This is His rules. This is His world. Your life belongs to Him.
That’s why the first and greatest commandment is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.“
The very minimum you should be doing each and every day is thanking God your Father for creating you and giving you life each and every day.
That’s the bare minimum.
Life and everything in life is based on rules. Every sports game has rules. If we all played the game with our own rules it wouldn’t be a game anymore. The roads have rules. If everyone did what they wanted the road would be chaotic. Same with everything else. Airports, food safety, ferries, workplace rules etc. If we all were to make up our own rules all the the above would be chaos!
So why do human being creations think that they can make their own rules for the most important thing called life and change Gods rules for living?
God already lived through this and saw what happened prior to the great flood. There were no rules back then and God saw the wickedness and evil and destroyed every living creation except Noah and all that were on the boat. Then He created rules for His human being creations and created sin and punishment for sin.
You cannot change Gods rules. You cannot alter them at all. You cannot sit down and have hour long discussions trying to debate it.
Gods rules are set in His Holy Bible and are unchanging and unchangeable.
Even if you make man made laws that go against what God has decided you are in sin. Man made laws are irrelevant to Gods laws.
When a person sins, it is written in the Holy Bible that demons will enter that person and you will become their slave. These demons will also ruin your life, bring about sicknesses, diseases, addictions, torments, voices in your head, suicidal thoughts, anger issues, relationship problems, money problems, hate and much more.
Not only will the demons enter you but God says He will visit the wickedness up to the third and fourth generations. Not only will the demons affect you but also the children up to the third and fourth generation.
Life is so simple. You can follow Gods rules or not. There is punishment for sin right now on earth as you live and when you die.
ONLY Jesus Christ (God) can cleanse you. You must repent to undo sin and for the demons to leave. You must be born again. You must obey Gods Word or worse demons will enter you.
Even evil thoughts are a sin Jesus says. Everything you have done has been recorded. Every sin. Every thought.
God wants to bless you here on earth and to have an amazing life but not while you’re in sin. Sin is real.
There is no other option. You have no option. This is not your life. It is Gods life. A gift given to you by God your Father. You can either embrace the truth and live an amazing life with God your Father or you can live in sin and with the punishment it brings. Disobedience to God and His rules and punishment for that disobedience brings a life of hell inside your body immediately. It’s an automatic process like the referee is watching while you play a game. They have TV referees now so nothing can slip past. That’s how it is with God. There is nothing secret.
In any other scenario you would be kicked out. Kicked out of the game, work, driving a car if you thought you could do whatever you wanted and make up your own rules.
Read the Holy Bible. It’s the only book you need.
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.
Deuteronomy 8:3
King James Version
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus (God)
Matthew 4:4
King James Version
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus (God)
John 8:32
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"lgbtq" people are not at church. the church is the body of christ, people. and no such lgbtq identity exists. people are defined through history as man and woman. the church is defined biblically as people who are in Jesus Christ. the building is not the christian identity neither is your identity in your feelings, attractions. stop labeling people with politically correct group identifiers. this by nature is divisive. many people with same sex attraction do not identify as "gay" and are not part of a supposed imaginary "gay community" christians and non christians alike resent being labeled and cast into a political agenda and limited by other peoples wrong ideas and labels.
Tell the truth in love... going progressive is a slippery slope to walking in error...
First
I do not use their chosen name or pronoun because both are used to affirm who they think they really are. It plays along with their delusion.
When we use pronouns that knowingly are not correct to their sex, we are sinning because we know it’s a lie. Someone’s “trigger” should not cause me to stumble into sin myself.
I try to take a neutral ground and won’t use a name or pronoun at all, which is possible.
Wow! This is disgusting. If you're a Christian, DO NOT USE PRONOUNS!!! This is pathetic for a "pastor" To tell Christians that it's ok to use pronouns. Satan goes to church as well. If any of you agree with this, you are NOT a Christian. Plain and simple. This is freakin ridiculous
AMEN!!!