I'm so confused why somebody who literally can't go off book without weeping would even join a game that explicitly said "do not join this game if you read the module". He claims he can't handle not knowing what comes next, but also, he fucked around with the story of the module just to "see if he could". Seems more like he can't handle not being in control than not knowing what's next, and that's a lot harder to sympathize with. Just run your own game, then, Chris. Can follow the module exactly how you want, then.
Yeah, I agree that his willingness to go off book immediately because he didn’t like the first part of the module does indicate that he is more of a control freak than it being anxiety if the unknown. I’d at least be more willing to believe it was anxiety if he was the one actively upset they wanted to skip to town. Even then, you can’t expect players to follow a script and let you be the main character because it would make you less anxious.
I think for some reason people fear failure since luck allows some aspect of the game to be out of your control. By min-maxing your character and outright abusing the module by taking steps the average party will not, they mitigate any chance of losing before the dice roll’s luck comes into play. I would find that really boring, but I guess I’m not afraid of “failing” a game of D&D. If I had fun it doesn’t matter if my character was weak or strong in the encounters.
A part of it is also peacocking to others. Notice he got positive affirmation from the other players when he was using meta-knowledge to deal with the danger. And the minute changes are introduced he is uncertain what to do, and a poor decision made makes him look like a fool in eyes to the other players. Sailorsloth has it pretty on the nose.
When Chris came back the first time i would probably openly given the condition that he has to bear with changed encounters and going off the book. because thats whats goin to happen when hes is part of the group again.
That is what should happen. I went into running an adventure, knowing two people listened to a podcast that played it. I made sweeping changes, ones that fit the actions of the players and their actions. Where things are in reaction to them, including taking time to craft magic items, advances the time on the plots for the enemies of each book. My players are happy to see logical outcomes positive and negative from actions taken.
i don't understand how someone could be upset at a campaign going in a new route based on the choices you made. like, isn't that one of the main advantages of TTRPGs? the fact your decisions have more tangible consequences that snowball into your own unique adventure? one of my favorite things about being a DM is seeing what choices my players are going to make and thinking about how those choices will affect the overall campaign. reading ahead in the module and getting mad when anything unexpected happens just defeats the point to me
That’s a great point. The man actively raged at the reason most people want to play a TTRPG. He should be a video game speedrunner or like a MMO raider if he wants to know what comes next and optimize past it
The point is the obsolute freedom within the bounds of the rules to tell the story you, and your friends want to. Even with a pre-made module there will be variance on outcomes, and parties. Reading ahead of a module, and knowing what happens is also a violation of trust between the player and the GM. When it was known that it was exactly what Chris was doing and with admission, it is grounds for being kicked from the game.
That guy was probably upset over not being able to look smart and competent in front of players who didn't cheat. Or he just wanted a power fantasy which also included letting everyone know he was having a relationship.
@@ArcCaravanMost likely the power fantasy. I have to admit, I am guilty of this myself, I very often reload games to optimise the path I took and in 50% of cases that was not necessary. It feels extremely good to see numbers go up and bosses be outplayed at every turn. But unlike most problem players I do at times try to introspect myself and I definitely am open for criticism from fellow players. I am not alone in this world, and I'd never actively ruin a game just to see my own numbers go up. Also I am prepared to roleplay my mistakes or bad things even if they make me sad. Catharsis is satisfying in whatever form it comes in.
Some people just aren't equipped to handle uncertainty, due to some combination of unfamiliarity with dealing with it, base temperament/neurology, or far too many bad experiences. I think this guy would be far happier playing old-school-style solo CRPGs for the time being, where failure isn't always so threatening and you can eventually learn the narratives and levels inside and out and have things go the way you expect or want almost every time. (Therapy might be helpful, too.)
I always listen to the stories and find the interesting but I always try and listen out to what was not said. One thing I find interesting is the two stable players in the story repeatedly asked for Chris to be allowed back into the party and Deb even liked Chris enough the couple up with him. In part 3 when Chris did leave the whole thing crumbled. I know he uses the reason 'it's hard to find a fourth' but between that and Chris feeling singled out I reckon something was missing. Really liked the DMs improv skills though! First time DM turning a mundane nerve banshee encounter into a really cool RP encounter is excellent
the moment he said it triggerred his anxiety the DM shouldn't have been allowing the others to try and convince them to bring him back, like the guy has PROVEN he can't be trusted and is makign excuses
Exactly. Maybe see a Therapist if it's real. But it reads as an in the moment excuse because he is caught cheating, and doesn't want to apologize for being in the wrong.
The ghouls breaking through the door was not a good call. Woulsve been better to go nuclear solution, no ERP in game and if you insist on continuing the session is over. Still, sucks for Adam and Barry. Sometimes you fish up a Chris.
I've played modules cold and I've played modules that I'm familiar with. It's never been a problem to pretend it's my first time through. I don't understand the idea of playing a game in such a way that you're ruining the fun of other players. This is the definition of being selfish.
As a player, I've never understood why anyone plays more than one session when it's clear that the DM, the players, or both, are making the experience miserable. The first time i played D&D with my best friend (I'd been playing D&D for over a decade at that point), his girlfriend wanted to DM. I knew she was an experienced DM, and thought it might be fun. Within 5 minutes, it became very clear that my friend's character was the unofficial main character, all the encounters (combat or dialogue) were all tailored to make his character seem awesome, and the rest of us were basically ignored extras. Halfway through the first session i left because i said i was tired, which i was, but declined to partipate in any future sessions.
Goblinbro I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that Chris doesn't have "anxiety", he's got Eric Cartman's "anxiety"; which is just shorthand for "anytime I'm argued with, told to stop treating others like crap, or am in any way slightly inconvenienced from just being on my devices while treating everyone around me like NPCs who should feel lucky to exist in my world; I scree at the top of my lungs that I'm getting an 'anxiety attack' and they give me what I want"... I see this kind of crap all the time, some self-centered individual thinks they've got some golden ticket to treat others poorly because we as a society treat mental health disorders very seriously and sympathetically. When these types get called out, they usually fall back on the same "boohoo poor pitiful me" shtick meant to manipulate their family and friends that's right out of a Narcissist's playbook.
one of the meanest ways to cheat is when the player knows that sometimes the DM has trouble remembering certain things especially regarding classes or archetypes, and once this happened to us with a rather bitchy player with a mania for protagonism. In short, during an intense fight this player decides to make a substantial change to a cantrip (ray of frost) making it a cone area attack, this obviously done out of nowhere without even asking or anything, and at that moment our poor DM (my best friend) didn't remember exactly what that cantrip did and so he didn't give it much weight at the time, but at the end of the session we immediately realized that he was shamelessly cheating ... luckily nothing major happened anyway but there had already been some history with this player and this was the icing on the cake🙂
Alright. I got to share this here, because of the subject of this story. Metagaming, and knowing the module. I am a DM who has been running the Pathfinder 1e AP "Giantslayer" for 3 years now. I was asked to run it by my friends who wanted to experience it at the table. Two of the four players listened to the Glass Cannon Podcast campaign of it. Important context. For what follows. The initial start followed the book closely at first, with modifications for player characters and interactions. One player bought an Akali Flask without reason, or prompting. Said Alchemical item deals damages to oozes. Up to this point there has been no foreshadowing of any oozes. A looming Orc raid, and maybe an small undead something nearby is it. Next session was the beginning of the next part of the module that originally included a Gelatinous Cube. I had revised the encounters in this part as I had a better gauged on player skills and abilities. I replaced the Cube with an Ankheg, swapping creatures with the same CR. I had actual in-lore reasons for the change supported by the Golarion lore. After the Ankheg fight, and we wrapped for the first session of the weekend. I took that player aside. I told him that I am making changes to the Adventure Path, because I am aware that him and another are aware of the stuff within to a certain extent. He apologized for meta-gaming. That was the first book. We are at the end of book 3 now. I have made changes to the plot, story, and more. The players who knew about stuff before, told me they preferred the changes I made. Do not be afraid to make changes, and tailor an adventure around your players and their characters. People like Chris, they are not there for the fun of the group, it's for personal gratification. D&D and it's off-shoots are about the group as a whole. Never lose sight of that.
Speaking as someone with major anxiety issues (actively medicated and getting therapy), DnD is part of how I’ve helped myself accept a lack of control. The DM is basically god in the context of the game, so them being able to change things on a whim has made me accept that I can’t control everything but have control over how I respond, which has led to me having better quality of life irl. Blaming anxiety for being a control freak is a cheap excuse and a red flag for playing DnD with a person for me
I'm in a DND group at my school. We're about to start and I'm really afraid that something is gonna go wrong with one person in my group. I know that this player always had issues with how I played in past games with my friends and that he was used to my FriendDM's more loose ruleset. I hope its gonna be fine though. Cuz he was a real issue during that game, constantley yelling and complaining at other's action or how I'm not always on the frontlines.....while I'm playing a Ranger. I'll play a heal/support centred Bard for my school campagin, lets hope its not going to go wrong. We got a Dwarf Cleric of the Light, A Human monk, a Human Bard (Me :D) A Human Fighter, a Dragon-dude thing paladin (IDK THE NAME) and well... the person I talk about still didn't get a character figured out.
I have written a homebrew campain, and i never dmed before but really want to try it. Problem is my life is so chaotic i struggle to be ablento make a schedule, i have a few people interested but they suffer the same problems.
Love the vid gobbo, I have a question that’s kinda related…how do I handle power gamer type characters? A game of DnD is supposed to be about a party all having fun together, not one OP MC with the 3 die because the encounters are to hard.
Saying changing the book triggers his anxiety doesn't make sense, because he's probably played homebrew if he's played for a while. He doesn't know what's going to happen then.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace While I prefer the slower mellow tone for personal reasons, I can see the faster tone being a boon for others. No complaint from me personally.
My biggest question is: why didn't they just continue without him? Why did they NEED 4 players? I'm currently running a (tweaked) Mines of Phandelver campaign with only three players (plus a DMPC) and it's been a blast so far! And if they absolutely HAD to have a 4th player, why didn't he just introduce a reasonably passive DMPC to fill in the gap? (Maybe this is due to how the module is balanced or maybe you have to have 4 players for roll20? Idk)
It's crazy to me that these weirdos would want to sexy rp in call with other people who are just trying to play a game. Then go so far as to baby rage when told to stop lolol. The fragility of this guy. How does he even function in the real world?
D&D is a wonderful pass time and creative outlet, but it is not therapy. The DM is typically not a therapist. If the guy needs to feel SO in control....he should just play a sim game or Minecraft on creative mode or something. Even the DM can be surprised by player actions. D&D is not about predictable, controllable outcomes.
It’s one think you know the module before hand and maybe take steps in game to avoid meta gaming, like not leading when the party goes through the dungeons. I’ve seen people do it. But to actively read it after the dm said not to and then shamelessly meta game and get mad when it gets changed is ridiculous
I'm so confused why somebody who literally can't go off book without weeping would even join a game that explicitly said "do not join this game if you read the module". He claims he can't handle not knowing what comes next, but also, he fucked around with the story of the module just to "see if he could". Seems more like he can't handle not being in control than not knowing what's next, and that's a lot harder to sympathize with. Just run your own game, then, Chris. Can follow the module exactly how you want, then.
Yeah, I agree that his willingness to go off book immediately because he didn’t like the first part of the module does indicate that he is more of a control freak than it being anxiety if the unknown. I’d at least be more willing to believe it was anxiety if he was the one actively upset they wanted to skip to town.
Even then, you can’t expect players to follow a script and let you be the main character because it would make you less anxious.
Yo what is even the point of cheating in a luck-dependent activity?
Some people have an unhealthy need to win and avoid failing in front of others.
I think for some reason people fear failure since luck allows some aspect of the game to be out of your control. By min-maxing your character and outright abusing the module by taking steps the average party will not, they mitigate any chance of losing before the dice roll’s luck comes into play. I would find that really boring, but I guess I’m not afraid of “failing” a game of D&D. If I had fun it doesn’t matter if my character was weak or strong in the encounters.
To "win"
A part of it is also peacocking to others. Notice he got positive affirmation from the other players when he was using meta-knowledge to deal with the danger. And the minute changes are introduced he is uncertain what to do, and a poor decision made makes him look like a fool in eyes to the other players.
Sailorsloth has it pretty on the nose.
Maybe they feel it should either be all luck or all skill.
When Chris came back the first time i would probably openly given the condition that he has to bear with changed encounters and going off the book. because thats whats goin to happen when hes is part of the group again.
That is what should happen. I went into running an adventure, knowing two people listened to a podcast that played it. I made sweeping changes, ones that fit the actions of the players and their actions. Where things are in reaction to them, including taking time to craft magic items, advances the time on the plots for the enemies of each book. My players are happy to see logical outcomes positive and negative from actions taken.
i don't understand how someone could be upset at a campaign going in a new route based on the choices you made. like, isn't that one of the main advantages of TTRPGs? the fact your decisions have more tangible consequences that snowball into your own unique adventure? one of my favorite things about being a DM is seeing what choices my players are going to make and thinking about how those choices will affect the overall campaign. reading ahead in the module and getting mad when anything unexpected happens just defeats the point to me
That’s a great point. The man actively raged at the reason most people want to play a TTRPG. He should be a video game speedrunner or like a MMO raider if he wants to know what comes next and optimize past it
The point is the obsolute freedom within the bounds of the rules to tell the story you, and your friends want to. Even with a pre-made module there will be variance on outcomes, and parties.
Reading ahead of a module, and knowing what happens is also a violation of trust between the player and the GM. When it was known that it was exactly what Chris was doing and with admission, it is grounds for being kicked from the game.
@@lootgoblinmarketplaceThat guy probably lacks the necessary skill to speedrun or do MMO raids.
That guy was probably upset over not being able to look smart and competent in front of players who didn't cheat. Or he just wanted a power fantasy which also included letting everyone know he was having a relationship.
@@ArcCaravanMost likely the power fantasy. I have to admit, I am guilty of this myself, I very often reload games to optimise the path I took and in 50% of cases that was not necessary. It feels extremely good to see numbers go up and bosses be outplayed at every turn. But unlike most problem players I do at times try to introspect myself and I definitely am open for criticism from fellow players. I am not alone in this world, and I'd never actively ruin a game just to see my own numbers go up. Also I am prepared to roleplay my mistakes or bad things even if they make me sad. Catharsis is satisfying in whatever form it comes in.
Stumbled upon your vids. They got a random recommend on my feed. Very happy to have done so, these are fantastic. Thanks man.
Some people just aren't equipped to handle uncertainty, due to some combination of unfamiliarity with dealing with it, base temperament/neurology, or far too many bad experiences.
I think this guy would be far happier playing old-school-style solo CRPGs for the time being, where failure isn't always so threatening and you can eventually learn the narratives and levels inside and out and have things go the way you expect or want almost every time. (Therapy might be helpful, too.)
I always listen to the stories and find the interesting but I always try and listen out to what was not said.
One thing I find interesting is the two stable players in the story repeatedly asked for Chris to be allowed back into the party and Deb even liked Chris enough the couple up with him. In part 3 when Chris did leave the whole thing crumbled. I know he uses the reason 'it's hard to find a fourth' but between that and Chris feeling singled out I reckon something was missing.
Really liked the DMs improv skills though! First time DM turning a mundane nerve banshee encounter into a really cool RP encounter is excellent
the moment he said it triggerred his anxiety the DM shouldn't have been allowing the others to try and convince them to bring him back, like the guy has PROVEN he can't be trusted and is makign excuses
Exactly. Maybe see a Therapist if it's real. But it reads as an in the moment excuse because he is caught cheating, and doesn't want to apologize for being in the wrong.
Exactly.. he's gotta go imo
The ghouls breaking through the door was not a good call. Woulsve been better to go nuclear solution, no ERP in game and if you insist on continuing the session is over.
Still, sucks for Adam and Barry. Sometimes you fish up a Chris.
Love me a good tabletop horror story saga.
I've played modules cold and I've played modules that I'm familiar with. It's never been a problem to pretend it's my first time through. I don't understand the idea of playing a game in such a way that you're ruining the fun of other players. This is the definition of being selfish.
As a player, I've never understood why anyone plays more than one session when it's clear that the DM, the players, or both, are making the experience miserable.
The first time i played D&D with my best friend (I'd been playing D&D for over a decade at that point), his girlfriend wanted to DM. I knew she was an experienced DM, and thought it might be fun.
Within 5 minutes, it became very clear that my friend's character was the unofficial main character, all the encounters (combat or dialogue) were all tailored to make his character seem awesome, and the rest of us were basically ignored extras.
Halfway through the first session i left because i said i was tired, which i was, but declined to partipate in any future sessions.
Damn, I've been away so long most of these stories i didn't even realize were online. I'm still a kitchen table guy from the past. 😂
Goblinbro I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that Chris doesn't have "anxiety", he's got Eric Cartman's "anxiety"; which is just shorthand for "anytime I'm argued with, told to stop treating others like crap, or am in any way slightly inconvenienced from just being on my devices while treating everyone around me like NPCs who should feel lucky to exist in my world; I scree at the top of my lungs that I'm getting an 'anxiety attack' and they give me what I want"...
I see this kind of crap all the time, some self-centered individual thinks they've got some golden ticket to treat others poorly because we as a society treat mental health disorders very seriously and sympathetically. When these types get called out, they usually fall back on the same "boohoo poor pitiful me" shtick meant to manipulate their family and friends that's right out of a Narcissist's playbook.
one of the meanest ways to cheat is when the player knows that sometimes the DM has trouble remembering certain things especially regarding classes or archetypes, and once this happened to us with a rather bitchy player with a mania for protagonism. In short, during an intense fight this player decides to make a substantial change to a cantrip (ray of frost) making it a cone area attack, this obviously done out of nowhere without even asking or anything, and at that moment our poor DM (my best friend) didn't remember exactly what that cantrip did and so he didn't give it much weight at the time, but at the end of the session we immediately realized that he was shamelessly cheating ... luckily nothing major happened anyway but there had already been some history with this player and this was the icing on the cake🙂
If Chris wants to be in control so much, he should just go play visual novels.
Apparently he also wants to control real people who can praise him.
Alright. I got to share this here, because of the subject of this story. Metagaming, and knowing the module.
I am a DM who has been running the Pathfinder 1e AP "Giantslayer" for 3 years now. I was asked to run it by my friends who wanted to experience it at the table. Two of the four players listened to the Glass Cannon Podcast campaign of it. Important context. For what follows.
The initial start followed the book closely at first, with modifications for player characters and interactions. One player bought an Akali Flask without reason, or prompting. Said Alchemical item deals damages to oozes. Up to this point there has been no foreshadowing of any oozes. A looming Orc raid, and maybe an small undead something nearby is it. Next session was the beginning of the next part of the module that originally included a Gelatinous Cube. I had revised the encounters in this part as I had a better gauged on player skills and abilities. I replaced the Cube with an Ankheg, swapping creatures with the same CR. I had actual in-lore reasons for the change supported by the Golarion lore. After the Ankheg fight, and we wrapped for the first session of the weekend. I took that player aside. I told him that I am making changes to the Adventure Path, because I am aware that him and another are aware of the stuff within to a certain extent. He apologized for meta-gaming.
That was the first book. We are at the end of book 3 now.
I have made changes to the plot, story, and more. The players who knew about stuff before, told me they preferred the changes I made. Do not be afraid to make changes, and tailor an adventure around your players and their characters. People like Chris, they are not there for the fun of the group, it's for personal gratification. D&D and it's off-shoots are about the group as a whole. Never lose sight of that.
Speaking as someone with major anxiety issues (actively medicated and getting therapy), DnD is part of how I’ve helped myself accept a lack of control. The DM is basically god in the context of the game, so them being able to change things on a whim has made me accept that I can’t control everything but have control over how I respond, which has led to me having better quality of life irl. Blaming anxiety for being a control freak is a cheap excuse and a red flag for playing DnD with a person for me
I'm in a DND group at my school. We're about to start and I'm really afraid that something is gonna go wrong with one person in my group. I know that this player always had issues with how I played in past games with my friends and that he was used to my FriendDM's more loose ruleset. I hope its gonna be fine though. Cuz he was a real issue during that game, constantley yelling and complaining at other's action or how I'm not always on the frontlines.....while I'm playing a Ranger. I'll play a heal/support centred Bard for my school campagin, lets hope its not going to go wrong. We got a Dwarf Cleric of the Light, A Human monk, a Human Bard (Me :D) A Human Fighter, a Dragon-dude thing paladin (IDK THE NAME) and well... the person I talk about still didn't get a character figured out.
I have written a homebrew campain, and i never dmed before but really want to try it. Problem is my life is so chaotic i struggle to be ablento make a schedule, i have a few people interested but they suffer the same problems.
i wonder how he would react to a hoebrew campaign. probably the kid a guy to look at the dms notes when they go for a piss
Can you imagine knowing that guy irl?
Love the vid gobbo, I have a question that’s kinda related…how do I handle power gamer type characters? A game of DnD is supposed to be about a party all having fun together, not one OP MC with the 3 die because the encounters are to hard.
Saying changing the book triggers his anxiety doesn't make sense, because he's probably played homebrew if he's played for a while. He doesn't know what's going to happen then.
Can you please cover luke, the plague son of nurgle? It is so disgustingly amazing that I would love to hear you narrate it.
Unrelated to my story. Noticed the pace on both reading and speaking are a bit faster than normal.
Yeah, I’m trying to see if that is a little more engaging. I’m curious if people think it’s too fast/slow
@@lootgoblinmarketplace
While I prefer the slower mellow tone for personal reasons, I can see the faster tone being a boon for others. No complaint from me personally.
I have no interest in D&D, but I find these people interactions amazingly fascinating.
This nightmare player is too confident in his anonymity. I would be at his front door 😂
My biggest question is: why didn't they just continue without him? Why did they NEED 4 players? I'm currently running a (tweaked) Mines of Phandelver campaign with only three players (plus a DMPC) and it's been a blast so far! And if they absolutely HAD to have a 4th player, why didn't he just introduce a reasonably passive DMPC to fill in the gap?
(Maybe this is due to how the module is balanced or maybe you have to have 4 players for roll20? Idk)
It's crazy to me that these weirdos would want to sexy rp in call with other people who are just trying to play a game. Then go so far as to baby rage when told to stop lolol. The fragility of this guy. How does he even function in the real world?
This video was posted 2 weeks ago... but isnt this a repost?
I swear I've seen this video before months or years ago.
D&D is a wonderful pass time and creative outlet, but it is not therapy. The DM is typically not a therapist. If the guy needs to feel SO in control....he should just play a sim game or Minecraft on creative mode or something. Even the DM can be surprised by player actions. D&D is not about predictable, controllable outcomes.
It’s one think you know the module before hand and maybe take steps in game to avoid meta gaming, like not leading when the party goes through the dungeons. I’ve seen people do it. But to actively read it after the dm said not to and then shamelessly meta game and get mad when it gets changed is ridiculous
honestly the all group was kinda bad...being so passive like that and not respecting the DM's time, kinda red flag from everyone
Lessons learned I hope 😂
First time being first!!!