Really good analysis! The sorting of 3 heroes per group gives the list a polished look, kind of like your previous tier list videos imo, everyone gives Beowulf a hard time but I find him more useful than the Xbalanque twins. When sieging the AI in deity, I often find the garrison units which increase city combat strength hard to deal with, and his ability drops the city from ~25 to 10. Late game his usefulness drops hard, but the ability to destroy a civ in the ancient era I find unmatched, ESPECIALLY when the AI forward settles you. He also helps out with the ubercharge barbarians who have man-at-arms before you get swordsman, or unique units like a Vietnamese Voi chen based in their capital (yuck). In the other hand, the twins combat strength relegates most of their time to fortifying from fights or pillaging health back, and requires much other support from other military units to get much needed kills. On paper it'd be amazing to steal away unique units in a war, but I find that killing them instantly with no damage to you and smashing their city in the same turn often feels more impactful than the free unit you have to play around
I actually felt even worse about Beowulf after rolling B-roll footage with him. A Horseman popped up in the Classical Era, and Beowulf didn't have enough Combat Strength to use Challenge on him. Feels really bad, man.
No wayyy, definitely testing this when home maybe I'm lucky? My experiences with Beowulf are often killing 5 warriors and a heavy cav that's garrisoned to take all of spain and chewing through Aztec eagle warriors after they forward settles, maybe I'm just lucky?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming UPDATE: wow, Beowulf felt bad into horses. He felt really good into coastal cities by killing garrison triremes, and punishes forward settles heavy, but one horse killed all of my momentum. He also one taps deity heroes (not herc) and I started a war by killing Scottish Oya, so I feel he still has some use but isn't as good as I felt. Xbalanque twins I still struggle fitting into games. Even if you get 5 warriors from them, using Himiko to suz and levy a CS plus getting faith feels infinitely better. On that note, the gap between C+B and S is enormous. Every test game I found Herc and Himiko in had to reset because I'd NEVER find a reason not to build them over either Beowulf or the twins. What do you think firaxis could do to balance H&L?
@Shawn-wo9li Yeah, don't get me wrong, Beowulf is still useful as the emergency handbrake on the defence, especially against unique units and Heroes, but on the offence you're just praying the AI doesn't get the wrong units. You're right about the Twins, they're probably at the bottom of B-tier. I think the Heroes kind of go against the idea of balancing anyway, but I think a small and good fix would be to swap Hercules' and Beowulf's combat strengths so Beowulf actually is the strongest hero.
Oya has an interesting kind of a sinergy with Samurais (but situational tho), you can barely kill them and they can sure break your face no cap. Samurais don't explicitly need healing, but healing makes them very very tough to mess with. And they're unlocked earlier!
Personally, because of my bias towards peaceful games where I lock the AI into perma-alliances, I would swap Mulan and Anansi around (especially since I can just yoink some luxuries from my allies to force them to buy my extras) I would also move Wukong down 4 or 5 tiers because he's absolutely useless without war, and even in war, if the enemy happens to have 2 or 3 scouts in the back defending their districts then Wukong explodes when they fart in his general direction because of his basically negative combat strength.
Never used any mods for heroes, so it wasn't that. I just remember trying to use him 2 or 3 times when the mode first came out, trying to pillage with him during a war, and him just getting killed incredibly easily by errand units in their city. It just soured my impression of him so much I never got him ever again, except if he was the last hero available and I had a high production city not working on anything too important. It doesn't help that since then I got another mod that gives me more options for alliances, letting me stun-lock all the AI's on even a 10 player map without letting them declare war on me, so he becomes almost completely useless to me except as a very, very expensive scout.
if u havent seen multiplayer... arthur is S+. Being able to kill your neighbour before they have a chance. Just with a hero and 4 scouts you get 3-4 cities. Also you can use it one the era rolls over, and get questing knights compare to knights, while others just have horsemen. Works on killing deity ai as well.
This is mostly for Singleplayer Deity, and while it definitely does work there if timed well, the window is smaller because the AI usually rush walls. Also, on Deity it just hurts so much to put production into something that goes away in 12 turns.
I loved watching this video, personally don't really play with game modes (aside from Barb clans) any more. But the video is still informative, and looking on the wiki isn't as fun.
I am already stuggling to make a unique infrastructure and civ tier list before Civ VII comes out, so as much as I like the idea, I think it's not going to happen at least before February.
Heroes are generally OP and further powercreep the game way too much. I find it somewhat amusing to see people claiming they play on deity, turn out to play with modes such as SS, heroes and monopolies enabled. Those people are essentially playing on emperor at that stage, because its too easy to game the system to gain massive advantages against the AI. Not saying you are one of those, but they do exist out there.
I have no qualms admitting I am a filthy casual, but also it's valid to say that winning without game modes takes more skill. It's why I specify in an upcoming video that I get a sub-200 science victory *without* game modes for the first time.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Nothing wrong with that. What I tend to dislike is the people who brag about their deity skills and at the same time abuse the modes hard.
I honestly kind of agree with this statement. I play exclusively deity at this point; but that being said I’ve been playing Civ 6 since launch; and rarely want the vanilla experience. I find the extra game modes accelerate the game, so i can actually finish a deity map in one sitting, but I fully admit that I have come to rely on heroes like Herc, anansi, SS and Monopolies way too much. I should do some vanilla runs to reaffirm my skill level lol. All that being said, I think Barb Clans is the most balanced “dlc” mode, and should be base game for 7. It gives meaningful interaction to a mechanic that rarely ever mattered outside of maybe classical era. Being able to recruit uniques, or create a new city state mid game feels very good, without feeling like I’m breaking my games with it.
This statement is fine until you realize the AI will also use the same features and can completely decimate you. Now your statement just sounds baseless😂
Arthur and Himiko are a great combo for domination. Hippolyta and stacked air units even better than siege units
True, although that kicks in much later. But yes, I basically consider Bombers a continuation of siege units anyway.
dang im loving the graphics! awesome video
Thanks!
Really good analysis! The sorting of 3 heroes per group gives the list a polished look, kind of like your previous tier list videos
imo, everyone gives Beowulf a hard time but I find him more useful than the Xbalanque twins. When sieging the AI in deity, I often find the garrison units which increase city combat strength hard to deal with, and his ability drops the city from ~25 to 10.
Late game his usefulness drops hard, but the ability to destroy a civ in the ancient era I find unmatched, ESPECIALLY when the AI forward settles you. He also helps out with the ubercharge barbarians who have man-at-arms before you get swordsman, or unique units like a Vietnamese Voi chen based in their capital (yuck).
In the other hand, the twins combat strength relegates most of their time to fortifying from fights or pillaging health back, and requires much other support from other military units to get much needed kills. On paper it'd be amazing to steal away unique units in a war, but I find that killing them instantly with no damage to you and smashing their city in the same turn often feels more impactful than the free unit you have to play around
I actually felt even worse about Beowulf after rolling B-roll footage with him. A Horseman popped up in the Classical Era, and Beowulf didn't have enough Combat Strength to use Challenge on him. Feels really bad, man.
No wayyy, definitely testing this when home maybe I'm lucky?
My experiences with Beowulf are often killing 5 warriors and a heavy cav that's garrisoned to take all of spain and chewing through Aztec eagle warriors after they forward settles, maybe I'm just lucky?
@@Zondagskind.Gaming UPDATE: wow, Beowulf felt bad into horses. He felt really good into coastal cities by killing garrison triremes, and punishes forward settles heavy, but one horse killed all of my momentum. He also one taps deity heroes (not herc) and I started a war by killing Scottish Oya, so I feel he still has some use but isn't as good as I felt.
Xbalanque twins I still struggle fitting into games. Even if you get 5 warriors from them, using Himiko to suz and levy a CS plus getting faith feels infinitely better. On that note, the gap between C+B and S is enormous. Every test game I found Herc and Himiko in had to reset because I'd NEVER find a reason not to build them over either Beowulf or the twins. What do you think firaxis could do to balance H&L?
@Shawn-wo9li Yeah, don't get me wrong, Beowulf is still useful as the emergency handbrake on the defence, especially against unique units and Heroes, but on the offence you're just praying the AI doesn't get the wrong units.
You're right about the Twins, they're probably at the bottom of B-tier.
I think the Heroes kind of go against the idea of balancing anyway, but I think a small and good fix would be to swap Hercules' and Beowulf's combat strengths so Beowulf actually is the strongest hero.
Sinbad Fed my early Sumeria
- Need Money for Carts EXPLORE
- Need a Quick Tech boost COASTAL BARB CAMPS
Oya has an interesting kind of a sinergy with Samurais (but situational tho), you can barely kill them and they can sure break your face no cap. Samurais don't explicitly need healing, but healing makes them very very tough to mess with. And they're unlocked earlier!
Personally, because of my bias towards peaceful games where I lock the AI into perma-alliances, I would swap Mulan and Anansi around (especially since I can just yoink some luxuries from my allies to force them to buy my extras) I would also move Wukong down 4 or 5 tiers because he's absolutely useless without war, and even in war, if the enemy happens to have 2 or 3 scouts in the back defending their districts then Wukong explodes when they fart in his general direction because of his basically negative combat strength.
Do you use a mod for heroes? Sun Wukong isn't that weak at all.
Never used any mods for heroes, so it wasn't that. I just remember trying to use him 2 or 3 times when the mode first came out, trying to pillage with him during a war, and him just getting killed incredibly easily by errand units in their city. It just soured my impression of him so much I never got him ever again, except if he was the last hero available and I had a high production city not working on anything too important. It doesn't help that since then I got another mod that gives me more options for alliances, letting me stun-lock all the AI's on even a 10 player map without letting them declare war on me, so he becomes almost completely useless to me except as a very, very expensive scout.
if u havent seen multiplayer... arthur is S+. Being able to kill your neighbour before they have a chance. Just with a hero and 4 scouts you get 3-4 cities. Also you can use it one the era rolls over, and get questing knights compare to knights, while others just have horsemen. Works on killing deity ai as well.
This is mostly for Singleplayer Deity, and while it definitely does work there if timed well, the window is smaller because the AI usually rush walls. Also, on Deity it just hurts so much to put production into something that goes away in 12 turns.
I loved watching this video, personally don't really play with game modes (aside from Barb clans) any more. But the video is still informative, and looking on the wiki isn't as fun.
Thanks! It's fun, I like to switch it up every game, but I do acknowledge the Heroes are much more overpowering than the Clans mode.
Wow I didn't know viking's abilitiy applies to sinbad!
Yep! It's amazing.
I just played a pillaging fueled science game with Harald Konge. It was the most wonderful thing ever…
Hehe I'm biased to Maui too, like _maybe_ he's more B+, but you can;t go wrong with Maui boosting a Great Zimbabwe set up
True!
Anansi and Maui are the best Hero combination for Tech and Cult games
Honestly I've underused Anansi because I always love there to be more resources - I should get him more often.
Arthur underrated. He can kill another leader in early game
I like to take Beowulf so I never have to worry about the AI deleting my Vampires or Heroes
How about a civ music theme tierlist?
I am already stuggling to make a unique infrastructure and civ tier list before Civ VII comes out, so as much as I like the idea, I think it's not going to happen at least before February.
I'm so hyped
Yeehaw!
A Anansi comment.
You're doing a Herculean task in commenting every time.
Heroes are generally OP and further powercreep the game way too much. I find it somewhat amusing to see people claiming they play on deity, turn out to play with modes such as SS, heroes and monopolies enabled. Those people are essentially playing on emperor at that stage, because its too easy to game the system to gain massive advantages against the AI. Not saying you are one of those, but they do exist out there.
I have no qualms admitting I am a filthy casual, but also it's valid to say that winning without game modes takes more skill. It's why I specify in an upcoming video that I get a sub-200 science victory *without* game modes for the first time.
@@Zondagskind.Gaming Nothing wrong with that. What I tend to dislike is the people who brag about their deity skills and at the same time abuse the modes hard.
I honestly kind of agree with this statement. I play exclusively deity at this point; but that being said I’ve been playing Civ 6 since launch; and rarely want the vanilla experience. I find the extra game modes accelerate the game, so i can actually finish a deity map in one sitting, but I fully admit that I have come to rely on heroes like Herc, anansi, SS and Monopolies way too much. I should do some vanilla runs to reaffirm my skill level lol. All that being said, I think Barb Clans is the most balanced “dlc” mode, and should be base game for 7. It gives meaningful interaction to a mechanic that rarely ever mattered outside of maybe classical era. Being able to recruit uniques, or create a new city state mid game feels very good, without feeling like I’m breaking my games with it.
This statement is fine until you realize the AI will also use the same features and can completely decimate you. Now your statement just sounds baseless😂