i had misspoke about Amongus-Scott in this video - the extra 40% only effects cities with snow tiles not just EVERY city~ thank you for correcting me~!
Woah woah woah. Golden Gate Bridge, a terrible wonder? Colosseum can't be used as a bridge so that my builder can travel to the single deer island tile without going in the water. Case closed.
@@bobhotpocket1875 prolly cause it doesnt Help any wincon too much Nice to Connect a City to the sea or two seas yadayada I Like it very much but i feel it doesnt contribute enough to be Better than Others. Too rare that u really Need this Connection of water ways
@@oliverarent3375plus u can't build it thru hills... It's like the dumbbies at fraxis never looked at the real panama canal .. they dug thru so many hills lol
Gorgo gets +1 combat strength for every military card equipped, not slots in government. In other words, military cards in wildcard slots give that bonus too.
Kind of a shame to see my favorite wonder (Alhambra) ranked so low, but I can understand your logic. I definitely have an affinity for free policy slots and I'm probably overrating the military slot, but Alhambra is still one of those wonders I always try to have in my game cause I love having all the extra policies and also It's just so pretty :D I would argue that it's C or even B tier but maybe on Prince it just fits my playstyle better? Or maybe I just think it's cool idk
I like Alhambra too - policy slots are always great. And I'm surprised he didn't value the 2 Amenities more given how important they are now. But on Deity I find that the AI grabs it kind of early, so it's harder to get than some others. I struggle with getting it because I don't tend to build early Encampments.
I agree. For me any Wonder that gives extra policies is minimum C tier. And Alhambra gives amenities as well which is a great bonus. Its better than some of the Wonders in C here imo
I’m guessing most of your games end up going into the late game, and your victories end up with the Augustus Ceasar ranking (2500+) If so, it’s refreshing to know there’s someone else out there who enjoys brutally long games 👏
I agree with Colossieum being S tier but I wanted to point out the culture aspect which is very powerful. First, having automatic +2 culture per turn in starting cities, without a monument, is huge for tile acquisition. I'm guessing, but a city starting with +2 culture passive, should be able to capture 4 tiles in like 18 turns, multiplied by 4ish, and that's crazy. The second point, is it's a great platform a culture play since you are required to build an entertainment complex + wonder, which means a theatre district gets an immediate +4, which is a nice compound to the investment.
Generally, I aim for Colossieum in my 2nd city, with a good water mill. That nails the construction eureka chain and helps develop production for the district and wonder. I try to buy the arena as well. it's a pretty stream-lined play that works for a lot of scenarios.
@@dogborf7909 I have had a couple of games where I could actually make really good use of the ocean crossing feature. But it's the most conditionally useful wonder in the game after Panama.
One thing you didnt mention about the power of Mausoleum at Halicarnassus is that it speeds up science victory by 30 turns with great Engineer Sergei Korolev. In 3 turns Launch Mars Colony and Exoplanet Expedition project can be completed.
Spicy take: Stonehenge exists for no fucking reason except to give the human player an aneurism when they see that the final turn they lose the religion they want when they’re absolutely certain it’s 100% safe Addendum: it’s also just a dead fucking tile so it’s worthless still even if you conquer it.
I believe stonhenge also lets you purchase religious units on it, so you can buy up to 3 units per turn in that city as opposed to 2 with enough faith per turn. Not that it matters, since those units would have to travel way too far to be useful
I think it would be cool and new to make a tier list of regular units. Like how spearman is pretty useless besides for the eurekas, probably D tier. How archers and crossbowman used to be S tier but after that last patch are just OK. How charriots are so trash because they take so long to upgrade.
I came to this video because I wanted someone to intellectually explain how the Panama Canal wonder works so I can build it in a meme game and I was not prepared to get absolutely fucking dunked on💀
Potala Palace - I don't think I agree that it's only useful in Diplomatic Victory games. I kind of think the +1 Diplomatic Victory point is the less impactful ability. You can easily win Diplo victories without it. The extra card slot is more important, and having an extra Diplomatic card slot is useful in any kind of victory condition. I agree that B tier is about right though.
@@shinydavidhowellEarly game it's a tie, late game diplo slots are wildly better imo. It's not an overwhelming win but I don't see any way to argue economic slots are better than diplo slots, while end game diplo slots are by far clearly superior. Still, either beats military slots comfortably, IMO
This is a really solid list! A few remarks I have: - Greath Bath is S-tier in the Apocalypse mode where you can use Soothsayers to boost the tiles at will rather than having to rely on RNG alone. Combined with the Voidsingers and especially as Ethiopia its potential is unrivaled. - Great Zimbabwe has one additional effect/strategy: the Honeypot. Apparantly the city with the Great Zimbabwe is the prime target for AI Spies to Siphon Funds from, so you can use that city to level up your own Spies through counterspying, and then retaliate with Master Spy operations. Fun to have as Catherine de Medici. - I would put Hermitage into D. It is expensive, takes a spot next to a River (where Districts or better Wonders like Big Ben could be), and it gives almost no immediate benefits upon completion. The only Leader that can make great use of it is Kristina. If this Wonder could be themed it would be much better. - Agree on Jebel. The faith can be strong, and because it takes Desert Hill (which are generally of low value) it's not a huge sacrifice of a tile. - Oracle does have stupid stacking potential. If you pick the Divine Spark Pantheon, choose Classical Republic, and get Pingala with Grants in your Oracle, a single Campus with a Library or a single Theatre Square with an Amphitheatre will yield you respectively 11.5 Great Scientist or 11.5 Great Writer points per turn, enough to get one of the early Great people in 5-10 turns.
I tend to go for Hermitage and/or Bolshoi Theatre in all my culture games where I focus on Great Works cause I never have enough great work slots for all the artists I'm getting and it's a lot easier than setling a city, getting a district, and then getting two buildings in the district
@@f0rm0r And potentially more powerful too, because the wonder-building city might have Pingala with the Curator promotion. That combination with Kristina is absolutely devastating - no "is it really worth it?" arguments with her.
I think Alhambra is kinda underated even in peaceful games as it allows you to run Logistics without sacrifizing harbor production/extra coal or aluminum/+15% to space race
It basically allows any science civ to get that sneaky-good bit of Germany's kit (albeit later, with extra production on something that doesn't offer that much else, and you need to build other military infrastructure to even unlock it - although that's possibly a good idea for a science civ anyway)
I like it too because it gives me a slot to put in the card for +1 movement speed in my empire is a very nice quality of life card. it’s really good for builders and military engineers if you want to build railroads
Recently i discovered that the +1 engineer charge makes leonardo give your workshops not +3 but +6 culture after activating him the 2nd time which is just bonkerz
This may be especially outrageous with Japan. They can stack Workshop culture with Electronics Factory culture and smash into the late-game civics without even many Theatre Squares, and their coastal start bias mean their Maus city could well be their capital... (Australia have this advantage also, but may not build enough IZs given their appeal focus. Certainly I tend to want to use Work Ethic-enhanced Holy Sites as surrogate IZs that add rather than remove appeal...)
Pyramids is almost ungettable for me on deity. literally have to start with stone to get the eureka to masonry and have a desert tile near my capital. The games I do get it I feel like I've completely tanked my game....like hey look turn 60 and I have 2 or 3 cities and no districts. I love the effects, but I couldn't put it in S because what you give up early to get it makes me cringe.
It’s not even worth it imo. You can get the extra builder charge from liang, for far less investment and you’re guaranteed to get it if you decide you want it. Then a bit later you can plug in the feudalism builder card for +2 build charges. That’s 6 charges, right at the time when you’re going to want to be spamming them more, and 5 charge builders for any new city you settle via ancestral halls. At that point the +1 charge from pyramids is just not that much extra compared to what you need to sacrifice in the super early game to get it. I’m pretty sure for the same production you could have built a campus AND a settler / it’s just not worth it that early game.
Worrior monks are good for one thing and one thing only: they can be easily form into corps. Some religion/ cultural games when you don't build a lot of units this can cut down some of the unit building time to boost the civic.
Finally someone speaks up for Jebel Barkal! The extra iron is really good in culture games as well since you can get this wonder quite early and trade the iron for gold. 6 iron a turn is quite a lot. The iron trading usually falls off quickly but it's kinda like free diplo points.
It's also ludicrously synergistic with Mali, and it arrives at a good time for them - right after their bonuses start being actual bonuses rather than penalties.
My gripe with Machu Picchu is that it can't be sped up by china. I got around this with a mod that lets chinas builders speed up adjacent wonders, as apposed to wonder tiles the builder is directly on top of.
Golden gate bridge is not just for national parks. If you think about it its amazing for a resort heavy city. -Your city will be coastal anyway, like you said. -+4 appeal stacks amazingly with resorts, their gold output is centered around it and their tourism equals their gold output. - +100% to that tourism, so you're doubling all that tourism from those resorts. It's easily a wonder that can add 50+ tourism with just 3 resorts. -Baseline resort needs to be charming I think but say its breathtaking. So +4 Tourism. Add 4 appeal, that's 8 tourism. Double that, 16 tourism. A single tile gives you 16 tourism. Not bad. And if you have any other appeal modifiers, and have like 5 resorts. You're pushing into the hundreds. Golden gate be tripling the tourism of any resort city. Hard to build though, I will agree on that.
that is very valid criticism, and i think i'm very jaded when it comes to the difficulty to place it which is why i ranked it so low, but those are great points
I think GGB is a fabulous wonder, it's just impossible to build. But when you can it's crazy good. I got it in a one city challenge game with something like 6 national parks once, and it was basically making like 300 tourism/turn.
It's definitely worth downgrading for how likely it is that you plain don't build it - it's a one-win-condition wonder that you can't even rely on building in that one win condition, but is absolutely outrageous when you do. It's basically cultural Amongus-Scott, isn't it?
@@shinydavidhowell Yeah you could make that comparison, but it really only benefits one city. But regardless, I certainly don't think it's F tier, probably C or high D with how much better it can be than some of those other wonders in those tiers
Yeah you pretty much have to put Amundsen-Scott in the same territory as Golden Gate - either both are F-tier or neither are. (I might honestly lean towards "both are" but considering just how hard they can both accelerate the ending I may be wrong?)
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is also good for a late Culture victory because that one tick of culture on shallow water tiles is enough for seasteads to start generating tourism regardless of them being next to a reef. Also, Biosphere once helped me make a national park out of a bunch of smelly marsh tiles. For that screenshot alone, it's my fav.
Hah! Kilwa is also outrageous in the hands of Tamar when her kit comes together. Kilwa/Georgia rivals Colosseum/Scotland for "S-tier wonder for anyone/meme-tier civ without that wonder"
2:30 this is a misunderstanding that I had for a long time. However, the placement requirement and the bonus is PER CITY. Hence, the placement of the Amundsen-Scott city doesn't affect other cities, but those other cities need to be in snowy regions to get the double yields.
S Tier Petra on a single dessert tile city. 😔👌 Jokes aside, i agree with your tier list, since i got a grip of the game, i never go for Stonehenge, better prepare for Kilwa, Colosseum, and Oracle. And i think, i just built that Golden Gate once, to make a city look pretty.
Conversely, I think that the Great Engineer charge on Maus is massively _overrated_ and that you're missing out if you don't get at least some yields out of it. I pulled up my recent victories not long ago to did a quick scan of how many Great Engineers I actually earned, and when. The results were a little underwhelming! Culture and Religious victories generally involved earning 0 or 1, and Science and Dom games usually involved a small handful, many of whom came so late that victory was already well in hand. If you happen to get Imhotep, yeah, absolutely knock it out regardless of victory condition, it's basically free then. But if the main benefit is an extra charge of Filippo and Eiffel, you're effectively paying 400 early game production to get 800 late game production -- pretty dubious in isolation. It by no means is a bad wonder, but like Colosseum, I feel like its value stems in part from the fact that the AI doesn't like to build it, giving you a lot of leisure in when and where to plop it down.
A lot depends on which Great Engineers you have. As you say, extra Filippo / Eiffel charges are basically worth a few hundred extra production; an extra Da Vinci charge, conversely, is worth a bunch of culture per turn from midgame onwards; other second-charge bonuses can be much worse. Of course, Scotland's kit means that Maus is truly epic for them, and if you're _against_ them you're pretty much only building Maus for the yield and to deny them it?
I personally love it because I'm a bit slow on my Science victories so just stalling until I get the Space Race Engi and instantly getting Sattelite to Exoplanet in 4 turns is pretty funny
Great video as always, thank you. I find that Venetian Arsenal can stack really well with Alexander's unique building. You can spam out boats with the right policy cards, even kill them immediately if you can't afford them, and reap loads of science.
The only ones I majorly disagree with are Statue of Liberty and Orthodontist or however you spell it. Diplomatic Victories are super easy and underrated IMO. You just get like 10-15 points through easy guesses and competitions, burn all your diplo favor in one world congress to get +3-5 points, then build the statue of liberty to instantly win before the AI realizes they need to stop you. Sure, it's only useful for one victory condition, but it's IMO the easiest one to get and will always be the most important wonder for it. Easily at least A tier, but I would even argue S tier because of how laughably easy Diplo victories are with it.
Eiffel tower not being in the same tier as Christo Redentor is a crime. Boosting appeal by 2 increases national parks tourism output by 8 and, when paired with cristo, seaside resorts have increased tourism by 4 and gold by 2. Not to mention it also increases tourism by ski resorts on mountains. And also preserves and earth goddess also work really well with it.
I think I rate extra policy card slots more highly, but otherwise I think I mainly agree with most of these. What I love about Civ is we all have our quirks in how we play and what we find important so I really enjoy a well explained tier list. I always come away with something new to think about, so thanks!
hahahah yeah that's why i try to explain that this is mostly coming from someone who tries to win before some of these even come on line its a great wonder, especially if you're planning for around 250 turns or more!
St.Basil seems a bit situational to put in A tier. Taj Mahal could also go down a tier; there are so many ways to earn era score past mid-game that it's usually overkill. I find Etemenanki iffy, it incentivizes preserving floodplains but then where do I place districts, on hills? Idk, maybe I just don't know how to utilize it's early-game powerspike, but then it does cost a lot of resources in the first place to get. Otherwise I mostly agree with your list. edit: Oh, and I have to add, I honestly don't see why Oracle is so highly rated. Deity AI likes to spam project so much that it doesn't really do much. I just don't think it's worth the tempo loss of building a wonder early in the game.
I have to disagree with putting the Golden Gate Bridge in F tier. If you have a city with a National Park and and you're going for a tourism victory, and the city can build the Golden Gate Bridge, I think it's clearly worth it. If it's not in a city with a National Park, it's not worth it. But I think that it's useful just often enough to be a D tier wonder. I love doing tourism victory games, so I choose that path quite often, and there are times when I do build this wonder because it is useful. I think this is better than the D tier Meenakshi temple which I wouldn't build even if I was going for a religious victory.
Worth noting if you are using the secret society vampires, Chichan Nza becomes a lot better. It makes an amazing vampire castle if you can get 3-4 surrounding it rainforest tiles surrounding it
Alhambra at D tier huh. At its worst this wonder reads (+1 movement to all your units in your territory). I agree it is the worst of the Policy card wonders but I still feel this is a B or C
Just a case that happened to me recently. I was playing with Cristina of Sweden and I built the Apadana then I spent most turns in may main city making wonders and just when I got build the Oxford University I got the achievement of making 7 wonders in the main city the Apadana is in. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
Pyramids give an extra charge to existing builders too similar to what Mausoleum does to engineers. It could be a good idea to delay using the last charge on a builder if pyramids is coming up pretty soon.
I like Venetian. Halves the production or naval units. Extremely useful if you primarily have coastal cities for defense and having a dominant naval presence.
This is prob the worst tier list ive seen for civ6, and the explainations are from someone id expect that has maybe 100 hours in the game. Surprising and sad. I almost feel embarrassed. Some things are opinions, but there is an objective range where once you go out of that you are just demonstrating your lack of understanding but still explaining it as if you are qualified to make recommendations.
The only thing I disagree with is Forbidden City. In my opinion it is the single most versatile and effective wonder in the game. It makes every single victory condition one policy slot easier, and we know how insane of a difference a single policy card can make.
BOES! Just letting you know I love your work and your personality. I just discovered you recently when I picked up CIV. Binge watching a ton of your videos has helped me greatly as I’m going through some really tough times. Been trying to catch a stream but it’s super hard with work, keep up the great work my dude!
Good list, I do like to build a Petra city if I see a desert natural wonder tho. Petra makes those tiles great, fast. Plus the and AI usually wont snipe you on it if you wait around a bit
I think you are on the right track with a Deity Tier. The Deity AI rushes early wonders except for TOA so hard that they usually aren't worth going for.
And of course you're just inviting early rushes with those wonders. Heck, even in the even multiplayer starts I've had a game where someone rushed the Great Bath when spawning next to my teammate who went with Montezuma - those sick yields were Aztec yields by the start of the classical era lol
I think Golden Gate should be D tier, just because you can spam city-state or civ improvements that provide tourism and get a killer tourism city reasonably often with it, especially if you plan to do so fairly far in advance. Most of the time I get it I can turn the city into a good tourism city using it, the problem is just finding somewhere to build it.
What makes Ruhr Valley A tier and not S? I’m just curious, I thought for space race projects it was ridiculously strong, like to the point of maybe being the strongest wonder for that victory type
Gotta say, I love how standardized the tier list is. Always bothered me when someone made a tier, and half the stuff is S or A tier Lovin the content Mr. Boes.
I haven't started watching yet but I know the GGB is gonna get a bad rep and Im Here to defend my precious wonder that could. Some wonders you just wanna build for the simplest reason that "oh shit I can actually build this!" Also it's a fuckin bridge in a game that oddly enough lacks BRIDGES. it looks so cool against everything else
Honestly, Orszaghaz is excellent for a domination victory. If you're getting diplo punished by the AI bc you've already wiped a couple civs, that extra diplo favor can keep unwanted emergencies off your back, or it at the very least keeps you still at least a little relevant in world congress, which might be the difference between a dom win and loss.
I would argue Petra is an occasional great wonder. Misunderstood, though. It turns useless desert lands into a great city, often as strong as the capital, depending on tiles of desert hills. Extremely useful in desperate situation. Much less when alternatives are available. It is C tier if you could get enough good cities elsewhere. It could be S tier if a powerhouse is needed, like, when - space is limited, you only got 6 cities or so due to poor crowded spawn - land is quite flat, even without much woods. most of your cities have very low production Then petra could literally save your game. Petra is overrated if you are trying to find a petra city, not if you have to build one.
Totally agree, I can get not placing it in S tier because it’s not useful in every game, but it is way above C tier. I’ve literally had a Petra city win me a tight Science game because the city had insane production when I had limited space.
if you don't want to see content on youtube, there's a way to mark a video as "not interested." Very useful if the algo starts recommending the new hotness that you don't care about but accidentally clicked on one video in the genre and are getting flooded with them. Much better than marking them as disliked because clicking on the video actually communicates that you're interested in it somewhat. @randomguy in the intro. PS. Big Ben translates to Large Lenjamin, not Large Ben.
Hey can you run by me why you chop everything? Am I wrong for thinking that the long term benefits vastly outway the short term gain? The exception for me being chopping woods and rainforest, sometimes you need the housing from farms instead. I trust your skill, you being a much more skilled player than I. I'm just baffled that you always harvest your bonus resources... help me understand por favor
IF Jebel Barkal could be built on any Hill, it would at least be A-tier for me; however, because of it's Desert Hill restriction, B-tier is a great choice. Great Wonder, just hard to build it if you don't have a Desert start
Pyramids, Colosseum, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Ruhr Valley, and Venetian Arsenal are the wonders I really try for. I never thought the end game wonders were very good, but now that the end game takes a lot longer than it used to, before all the future tech/ civics additions, I may have to rethink my stance on late game wonders
Obviously, Civ 6 is VERY different from Civ 5, which I played a lot in Immortal. But it's so interesting to see what's changed from one game to the other. I remember Alhambra being one of the best wonders and seeing it like this is kinda sad.
One thing you didn’t mention about Machu pichu is good because you can build it on a mountain so it doesn’t take up a tile. I would put it in C tier. Also I find that deity AI doesn’t push it as often, but that’s just anecdotal, sometimes it’s gone crazy fast
To be fair, certain types of CIVs, and situations may change which wonders make sense to build. For Amanitore, and John Curtin, a Petra/desert capital could really kick ass….St. Basil’s Cathedral/tundra with Russia or Canada is another one if you’re into tile resource porn.
Unless the exploit regarding the Great Bath has been fixed then its an F tier otherwise it's an S tier. All it takes is this wonder a few soothsays and just call a natural disaster in your capital near a floodplain or a river. You can create GIGA YIELDS at those locations that infinitely get better each time the soothsayer calls a flood or a 1000y old flood. You can also combine this exploit with vampire castles to get a powerful vampire castle that combines all those tiles to get SUPER GIGA YIELDS!
I'm not super far off from you on Petra. Yeah it can be great, but why sink all the resources and production into it if there are plenty of fresh water grassland/plains cities available.
Your AI rushes Hanging Gardens? Mine never does. I usually end up being able to build it around turn 90 after I finish settling my heartland. I wonder why people seem to have such different Deity AIs.
Victoria: You tread on dangerous waters in the face of England and her loyal colonies. Player: Ha! I have Venetian Arsenal. What are you gonna do about it?
Seaside resorts become insanely good w/ Golden Gate Bridge, extra 4 gold and 4 tourism from each resort. Do agree on Colosseum, I need to build it more lol, still great video, your insight is super interesting.
I played Pericles once, and got Alhambra, forbidden city, Big Ben, and potala palace w/ owls of Minerva. I think I got 2 military, 4 economic, 3 diplomatic, and 4 wildcard slots in a merchant republic, pretty fun game ngl
Mausoleum+Maui+Auckland+god of the sea = god tier coastal city. I cried when I have to remove 1 fish tile because I needed to build statue of liberty (I need it to keep Paris loyal, I was playing Robespierre, a mod by sukitract and Paris was permanently losing loyalty due to me building too many wonders in Paris).
I build the Apadana all of the time because the AI is too allergic to it and +2 culture ain't that bad on my theater district As for favorite wonder, Petra is always awesome but gettinf Pyramids up is almost euphoric for me
12:48 boy do I have a screenshot to show you boes I had three fires in central africa (tsl earth) on those rainforests, then built the itza nearby, lumbermilled all of them, every single tile was at least 7 food, 8 production, 2 culture. Also got a diamond corporation in that city. 😫👌 had almost 30 pop and did the exoplanet launch in 20ish turns unfortunately the screenshot is before the lumbermills, I just checked it and everything is a 4/4
Good list from my experience playing on Deity. Your S tiers are all the pretty much objectively correct choices. I would argue that Oracle should be in S tier with the others though, it’s impact on a game is pretty much irreplaceable. Generally you gave a lot of credit to the wonders that give additional slots, except Alhambra for some reason? I don’t really understand Alhambras low placement. That extra military slot can be so impactful. Oftentimes if you’re constantly warmongering you’re going to want some combination of (and apologies as I don’t know the card names off the top of my head) the Raid, Unit Maintenance reduction, 50% off Resource/Gold upgrade cost, 50% extra unit production cost, and potentially others like the extra accumulation of strategic resources and that extra policy slot is SO valuable. I know you can time things and constantly change out your government cards but a lot of the ones I mentioned you don’t really ever want to take out if you can avoid it. Great Library also is maybe too low. The sheer amount of value it generates over the course of a science game in its great scientist points + boosts goes a long way to chipping off those valuable turns leading into and after researching the Spaceport. I understand that you gave it a small penalty because it’s hard to get on Deity, but when Stonehenge can make S tier despite it also being very difficult to make, it feels too harsh. As for wonders that are maybe too high, Huey Teocalli feels like a prime candidate. While theoretically it can be a very good wonder to get, those potential amenities gains are real,it’s super situational and has a lot of factors going against it. You need to have a city on a prime lake position, to justify making it you would likely need at least 4+ adjacent lake tiles so it needs to be a sizeable one as well. Generally building a city on a lake never feels great, you can get the harbour but you lose out on access to the ocean for trade routes and coastal resources, with pretty much no gains to make up for it. It’s also in a weird spot on the tech tree where it isn’t too deep it but it sucks to prioritize because it leads nowhere of value very quickly when you would much rather be going top tree most of the time. Also I swear it’s built just as quickly as something like macchu picchu in my games but maybe that’s just me. Good video overall, thanks boes 👍
So many wonders i didn't realize all their potentials I have the same S Tier list but with all these descriptions, i thought to build a giga empire with science and production modifiers for a fast Space victory (all wonders with science modifier and all wonders with production modifiers)
the venetian arsenal is definitely only good in specific circumstances, but there was one game where i was playing as germany, was in the atomic era and noticed that no-one had built it yet; managed to crank it out in like 12 turns, then used it to make like 6 u-boat armadas. granted i didn't really use them for anything but it was still fun to have
I've actually managed to get Stonehenge on deity at least once, maybe twice. The production value is rarely worth it compared to other wonders you could be chasing early game. The first time I built Stonehenge on deity, something didn't feel right. I checked the difficulty and sure enough my settings weren't saved and I was actually playing on Prince.
Any wonder that gives a policy slot is automatically minimum C tier. Especially when chichen itza is somehow there at C tier. Alhambra is definitely better than that since it can help your whole empire. Maybe its veterancy when you've got lots of harbors, craftsmen for IZ adjacency, integrated space cell etc. Far more potential utility.
To me any policy slot wonders are automatically S-tier. I don't care about any other bonuses, a policy card slot is going to be vastly, vastly more powerful than any other effects from any wonder in the game. Alhambra being D-tier is insanity to me. Situationally, some wonders might be better than an extra policy card slot... But throughout the game, when you can always choose the best card, while bonuses from wonders stay static, I don't think any wonder in the game is beating free policy card slot. Edit: Wait, you put Forbidden Palace on A tier and not S..? Is this list a troll? What even is going on? Even if one hates military policy slots, I think you just can't have played the game if wildcard slot isn't just S+++ tier wonder automatically.
The other time you build Petra is when Nazca is in the game. Stonehenge is honestly awful though, saying as someone rarely plays on Deity. If you're hoping to play religion you will need to build Holy Sites and will get your Prophet eventually anyway. The production is 10x better spent on an early holy site + shrine.
I kinda disagree about Petra a bit. Building bad city and investing into it to become just above average is good point, but i think it's more a B-tier cause it suits desery civs and more imporantly "fixes" problem when you don't have a lot of good land or are resticted by other players. I usually plan "desert" city to have both petra and ruhr to become spaceport city at end game like you said or just encampment city which pops units like a printer.
The biggest thing about the Oracle is that you can faith-buy every great person 25% cheaper, not just heroes. That's really game-changing as it can save you thousands of faith.
My rule is to always look for one desert city with hills in which i will build petra. AI does not value it so its a free build whenever. I sometimes even leave it for later part of the game for when i already have recruited the engeneer that builds it in 1 turn. With that i then build rurh valey wonder and have around 200/300 production i my desert city which then becomes my spaceport dreamland. Depending on the map and the playing civ tho everything changes. One thing however remains no matter the civ you play. Extra card slots wonders are a tier of its own 100%. I build at least 2 every single game i play. Most of the time i build all of them except the military one obviously. Military policy slots are the worst by far since i do not enjoy domination victories. Its way to simple. Rather play wc3 if i wanna control armies and destroy shit. Good tier list tho.
Hah! I suck at this game but managed to get Etemenanki on Deity. Maybe it’s only possible using Hammurabi, but it does not belong in an “ungettable” tier. I strung together eurekas and got Eremenanki and Hanging Gardens by something like turn 35. Maybe a bit later but I was pretty proud given the difficulty setting and my general ineptitude. Hammurabi is not to be trifled with.
Ooosh, Eiffel Tower c tier... If youre playing Australia (which i do almost every game, Aussie here), then Eiffel is definite S tier, due to Australia bonuses based on appeal.
I will disagree with the assessment of the Eiffel Tower wonder. Eiffel tower also gives a huge housing boost to neighborhoods and seaside resorts. When combined with the Public Transport economic policy, cities grow crazy fast and make a ton of production & money. Excellent for any game type. I would rank it A tier.
i had misspoke about Amongus-Scott in this video - the extra 40% only effects cities with snow tiles not just EVERY city~ thank you for correcting me~!
How did I not know this. I’ve wasted so much time positioning my amongus Scott city to have 5 snow tiles thinking I was boosting my entire civ.
unsubbed!!!!!
Oh didn‘t know that. Thought it hits the whole empire as well
That explains a lot!
*affect
Woah woah woah. Golden Gate Bridge, a terrible wonder? Colosseum can't be used as a bridge so that my builder can travel to the single deer island tile without going in the water. Case closed.
…or cross the Bering Straight…
Depending on how you place it, the Panama Canal looks like a spiky S. Thus, S-tier confirmed.
One cool thing is it gives you a +4 IZ by itself
So why do people hate the panamal do much??
@@bobhotpocket1875 prolly cause it doesnt Help any wincon too much
Nice to Connect a City to the sea or two seas yadayada
I Like it very much but i feel it doesnt contribute enough to be Better than Others. Too rare that u really Need this Connection of water ways
@@oliverarent3375plus u can't build it thru hills... It's like the dumbbies at fraxis never looked at the real panama canal .. they dug thru so many hills lol
What sucks is only the tile you placed it on counts as a wonder so you can't get gigachad theater squares with it.
Gorgo gets +1 combat strength for every military card equipped, not slots in government. In other words, military cards in wildcard slots give that bonus too.
Kind of a shame to see my favorite wonder (Alhambra) ranked so low, but I can understand your logic. I definitely have an affinity for free policy slots and I'm probably overrating the military slot, but Alhambra is still one of those wonders I always try to have in my game cause I love having all the extra policies and also It's just so pretty :D
I would argue that it's C or even B tier but maybe on Prince it just fits my playstyle better? Or maybe I just think it's cool idk
I like Alhambra too - policy slots are always great. And I'm surprised he didn't value the 2 Amenities more given how important they are now. But on Deity I find that the AI grabs it kind of early, so it's harder to get than some others. I struggle with getting it because I don't tend to build early Encampments.
I agree. For me any Wonder that gives extra policies is minimum C tier. And Alhambra gives amenities as well which is a great bonus. Its better than some of the Wonders in C here imo
I’m guessing most of your games end up going into the late game, and your victories end up with the Augustus Ceasar ranking (2500+)
If so, it’s refreshing to know there’s someone else out there who enjoys brutally long games 👏
I agree with Colossieum being S tier but I wanted to point out the culture aspect which is very powerful. First, having automatic +2 culture per turn in starting cities, without a monument, is huge for tile acquisition. I'm guessing, but a city starting with +2 culture passive, should be able to capture 4 tiles in like 18 turns, multiplied by 4ish, and that's crazy. The second point, is it's a great platform a culture play since you are required to build an entertainment complex + wonder, which means a theatre district gets an immediate +4, which is a nice compound to the investment.
Generally, I aim for Colossieum in my 2nd city, with a good water mill. That nails the construction eureka chain and helps develop production for the district and wonder. I try to buy the arena as well. it's a pretty stream-lined play that works for a lot of scenarios.
EEERRRMMMEEERRGGGEEERRRRDDDD! I can't believe you put x wonder in x tier - In multiplayer its *rabble rabble rabble*
I actually got a pretty darn good golden gate bridge in my last portugal game 🤣🤣🤣
One weird thing about Terracotta Army. If you get it late game it can give your spies a fourth promotion.
Gold gate bridge is a wonder you build because it looks good on the map and you can.
you're not wrong
It is a wonder you build because its such a rare wonder to even be able to build
@@dogborf7909 I have had a couple of games where I could actually make really good use of the ocean crossing feature. But it's the most conditionally useful wonder in the game after Panama.
@@olivercarle Sometimes building a wonder isn't about what practical use it can serve, but often humans build things for the sheer marvel of it all.
One thing you didnt mention about the power of Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
is that it speeds up science victory by 30 turns with great Engineer Sergei Korolev. In 3 turns Launch Mars Colony and Exoplanet Expedition project can be completed.
A note about the Mausoleum - if you use the last charge of a great engineer to finish it, the engineer will come back with one charge iirc
Spicy take: Stonehenge exists for no fucking reason except to give the human player an aneurism when they see that the final turn they lose the religion they want when they’re absolutely certain it’s 100% safe
Addendum: it’s also just a dead fucking tile so it’s worthless still even if you conquer it.
I only go Stone Hedges when I play Byzantium but even then I would rather have a monument or rushed holy site up and running
Stonehenge gives tourism so it's not a dead tile. Having said that, it's still horrible.
hahahahahah ok i like this take
Stonehenge also gives 2 faith per turn so it isn’t 100% dead but I still get what you mean.
I believe stonhenge also lets you purchase religious units on it, so you can buy up to 3 units per turn in that city as opposed to 2 with enough faith per turn. Not that it matters, since those units would have to travel way too far to be useful
I think it would be cool and new to make a tier list of regular units. Like how spearman is pretty useless besides for the eurekas, probably D tier. How archers and crossbowman used to be S tier but after that last patch are just OK. How charriots are so trash because they take so long to upgrade.
I came to this video because I wanted someone to intellectually explain how the Panama Canal wonder works so I can build it in a meme game and I was not prepared to get absolutely fucking dunked on💀
Potala Palace - I don't think I agree that it's only useful in Diplomatic Victory games. I kind of think the +1 Diplomatic Victory point is the less impactful ability. You can easily win Diplo victories without it. The extra card slot is more important, and having an extra Diplomatic card slot is useful in any kind of victory condition. I agree that B tier is about right though.
I'd say diplomatic cards are the second best after wildcard
I'd *tentatively* go economic? But the late-game diplomatic cards can be game-breaking.
@@shinydavidhowellEarly game it's a tie, late game diplo slots are wildly better imo. It's not an overwhelming win but I don't see any way to argue economic slots are better than diplo slots, while end game diplo slots are by far clearly superior.
Still, either beats military slots comfortably, IMO
This is a really solid list!
A few remarks I have:
- Greath Bath is S-tier in the Apocalypse mode where you can use Soothsayers to boost the tiles at will rather than having to rely on RNG alone. Combined with the Voidsingers and especially as Ethiopia its potential is unrivaled.
- Great Zimbabwe has one additional effect/strategy: the Honeypot. Apparantly the city with the Great Zimbabwe is the prime target for AI Spies to Siphon Funds from, so you can use that city to level up your own Spies through counterspying, and then retaliate with Master Spy operations. Fun to have as Catherine de Medici.
- I would put Hermitage into D. It is expensive, takes a spot next to a River (where Districts or better Wonders like Big Ben could be), and it gives almost no immediate benefits upon completion. The only Leader that can make great use of it is Kristina. If this Wonder could be themed it would be much better.
- Agree on Jebel. The faith can be strong, and because it takes Desert Hill (which are generally of low value) it's not a huge sacrifice of a tile.
- Oracle does have stupid stacking potential. If you pick the Divine Spark Pantheon, choose Classical Republic, and get Pingala with Grants in your Oracle, a single Campus with a Library or a single Theatre Square with an Amphitheatre will yield you respectively 11.5 Great Scientist or 11.5 Great Writer points per turn, enough to get one of the early Great people in 5-10 turns.
I tend to go for Hermitage and/or Bolshoi Theatre in all my culture games where I focus on Great Works cause I never have enough great work slots for all the artists I'm getting and it's a lot easier than setling a city, getting a district, and then getting two buildings in the district
@@f0rm0r And potentially more powerful too, because the wonder-building city might have Pingala with the Curator promotion. That combination with Kristina is absolutely devastating - no "is it really worth it?" arguments with her.
With Oracle and Pedro I got so many great people I didn't know what to do with them.
I did the Apocalypse thing but then my city was taken out by a meteor, so...
I love Oracle for my Babylon capital. It's also great when you have too much faith to use and burn it on buying Great People for Golden Ages.
I think Alhambra is kinda underated even in peaceful games as it allows you to run Logistics without sacrifizing harbor production/extra coal or aluminum/+15% to space race
It basically allows any science civ to get that sneaky-good bit of Germany's kit (albeit later, with extra production on something that doesn't offer that much else, and you need to build other military infrastructure to even unlock it - although that's possibly a good idea for a science civ anyway)
I like it too because it gives me a slot to put in the card for +1 movement speed in my empire is a very nice quality of life card. it’s really good for builders and military engineers if you want to build railroads
Maybe the real wonders are the friends we made along the way.
Recently i discovered that the +1 engineer charge makes leonardo give your workshops not +3 but +6 culture after activating him the 2nd time which is just bonkerz
This may be especially outrageous with Japan. They can stack Workshop culture with Electronics Factory culture and smash into the late-game civics without even many Theatre Squares, and their coastal start bias mean their Maus city could well be their capital...
(Australia have this advantage also, but may not build enough IZs given their appeal focus. Certainly I tend to want to use Work Ethic-enhanced Holy Sites as surrogate IZs that add rather than remove appeal...)
Pyramids is almost ungettable for me on deity. literally have to start with stone to get the eureka to masonry and have a desert tile near my capital. The games I do get it I feel like I've completely tanked my game....like hey look turn 60 and I have 2 or 3 cities and no districts. I love the effects, but I couldn't put it in S because what you give up early to get it makes me cringe.
It’s not even worth it imo. You can get the extra builder charge from liang, for far less investment and you’re guaranteed to get it if you decide you want it. Then a bit later you can plug in the feudalism builder card for +2 build charges. That’s 6 charges, right at the time when you’re going to want to be spamming them more, and 5 charge builders for any new city you settle via ancestral halls.
At that point the +1 charge from pyramids is just not that much extra compared to what you need to sacrifice in the super early game to get it. I’m pretty sure for the same production you could have built a campus AND a settler / it’s just not worth it that early game.
Worrior monks are good for one thing and one thing only: they can be easily form into corps. Some religion/ cultural games when you don't build a lot of units this can cut down some of the unit building time to boost the civic.
Cords? You mean corps?
@@chaseoliver3978 yeah, typo sorry
I use them for the garrison amenity policy card whenever I make them.
I used them for pillage aa they have promotion that makes them invisible
I'd put Forbidden City as an S tier. It's my second most prioritized wonder after Kilwa.
It's incredible how the AI bumrushes Machu Picchu when two elite wonders are directly after Engineering and they don't rush those 😂
Finally someone speaks up for Jebel Barkal! The extra iron is really good in culture games as well since you can get this wonder quite early and trade the iron for gold. 6 iron a turn is quite a lot. The iron trading usually falls off quickly but it's kinda like free diplo points.
It's also ludicrously synergistic with Mali, and it arrives at a good time for them - right after their bonuses start being actual bonuses rather than penalties.
My gripe with Machu Picchu is that it can't be sped up by china. I got around this with a mod that lets chinas builders speed up adjacent wonders, as apposed to wonder tiles the builder is directly on top of.
Golden gate bridge is not just for national parks. If you think about it its amazing for a resort heavy city.
-Your city will be coastal anyway, like you said.
-+4 appeal stacks amazingly with resorts, their gold output is centered around it and their tourism equals their gold output.
- +100% to that tourism, so you're doubling all that tourism from those resorts.
It's easily a wonder that can add 50+ tourism with just 3 resorts.
-Baseline resort needs to be charming I think but say its breathtaking. So +4 Tourism.
Add 4 appeal, that's 8 tourism.
Double that, 16 tourism. A single tile gives you 16 tourism. Not bad.
And if you have any other appeal modifiers, and have like 5 resorts. You're pushing into the hundreds. Golden gate be tripling the tourism of any resort city.
Hard to build though, I will agree on that.
that is very valid criticism, and i think i'm very jaded when it comes to the difficulty to place it which is why i ranked it so low, but those are great points
I think GGB is a fabulous wonder, it's just impossible to build. But when you can it's crazy good. I got it in a one city challenge game with something like 6 national parks once, and it was basically making like 300 tourism/turn.
It's definitely worth downgrading for how likely it is that you plain don't build it - it's a one-win-condition wonder that you can't even rely on building in that one win condition, but is absolutely outrageous when you do. It's basically cultural Amongus-Scott, isn't it?
@@shinydavidhowell Yeah you could make that comparison, but it really only benefits one city. But regardless, I certainly don't think it's F tier, probably C or high D with how much better it can be than some of those other wonders in those tiers
Yeah you pretty much have to put Amundsen-Scott in the same territory as Golden Gate - either both are F-tier or neither are. (I might honestly lean towards "both are" but considering just how hard they can both accelerate the ending I may be wrong?)
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is also good for a late Culture victory because that one tick of culture on shallow water tiles is enough for seasteads to start generating tourism regardless of them being next to a reef. Also, Biosphere once helped me make a national park out of a bunch of smelly marsh tiles. For that screenshot alone, it's my fav.
"Only he who constructs the Kilwa Kisiwani as Pericles-Greece understands true yields."
- Sun Tzu
Hah! Kilwa is also outrageous in the hands of Tamar when her kit comes together. Kilwa/Georgia rivals Colosseum/Scotland for "S-tier wonder for anyone/meme-tier civ without that wonder"
2:30 this is a misunderstanding that I had for a long time. However, the placement requirement and the bonus is PER CITY. Hence, the placement of the Amundsen-Scott city doesn't affect other cities, but those other cities need to be in snowy regions to get the double yields.
yeah that was just me mispeaking but you are correct~!
also is this the platypus haha
Biosphere is also insanely good for culture victories as kongo or brazil, giving appeal to jungle tiles helps you make more national parks
S Tier Petra on a single dessert tile city. 😔👌
Jokes aside, i agree with your tier list, since i got a grip of the game, i never go for Stonehenge, better prepare for Kilwa, Colosseum, and Oracle. And i think, i just built that Golden Gate once, to make a city look pretty.
Conversely, I think that the Great Engineer charge on Maus is massively _overrated_ and that you're missing out if you don't get at least some yields out of it.
I pulled up my recent victories not long ago to did a quick scan of how many Great Engineers I actually earned, and when. The results were a little underwhelming! Culture and Religious victories generally involved earning 0 or 1, and Science and Dom games usually involved a small handful, many of whom came so late that victory was already well in hand. If you happen to get Imhotep, yeah, absolutely knock it out regardless of victory condition, it's basically free then. But if the main benefit is an extra charge of Filippo and Eiffel, you're effectively paying 400 early game production to get 800 late game production -- pretty dubious in isolation.
It by no means is a bad wonder, but like Colosseum, I feel like its value stems in part from the fact that the AI doesn't like to build it, giving you a lot of leisure in when and where to plop it down.
A lot depends on which Great Engineers you have. As you say, extra Filippo / Eiffel charges are basically worth a few hundred extra production; an extra Da Vinci charge, conversely, is worth a bunch of culture per turn from midgame onwards; other second-charge bonuses can be much worse.
Of course, Scotland's kit means that Maus is truly epic for them, and if you're _against_ them you're pretty much only building Maus for the yield and to deny them it?
I personally love it because I'm a bit slow on my Science victories so just stalling until I get the Space Race Engi and instantly getting Sattelite to Exoplanet in 4 turns is pretty funny
Great video as always, thank you. I find that Venetian Arsenal can stack really well with Alexander's unique building. You can spam out boats with the right policy cards, even kill them immediately if you can't afford them, and reap loads of science.
eiffel C tier? how do i fight someone through a computer screen?
The only ones I majorly disagree with are Statue of Liberty and Orthodontist or however you spell it. Diplomatic Victories are super easy and underrated IMO. You just get like 10-15 points through easy guesses and competitions, burn all your diplo favor in one world congress to get +3-5 points, then build the statue of liberty to instantly win before the AI realizes they need to stop you. Sure, it's only useful for one victory condition, but it's IMO the easiest one to get and will always be the most important wonder for it. Easily at least A tier, but I would even argue S tier because of how laughably easy Diplo victories are with it.
Honestly that is a very fair assessment and it shows my bias against diplo victories in general - which should definitely bump it up a bit
Eiffel tower not being in the same tier as Christo Redentor is a crime. Boosting appeal by 2 increases national parks tourism output by 8 and, when paired with cristo, seaside resorts have increased tourism by 4 and gold by 2. Not to mention it also increases tourism by ski resorts on mountains.
And also preserves and earth goddess also work really well with it.
It's in the tier of Big Tall building
I think I rate extra policy card slots more highly, but otherwise I think I mainly agree with most of these. What I love about Civ is we all have our quirks in how we play and what we find important so I really enjoy a well explained tier list. I always come away with something new to think about, so thanks!
Good list, only real disagreement is with The Estadio. It only gets a bad rap in your eyes because you are too good at the game and win too fast!
hahahah yeah that's why i try to explain that this is mostly coming from someone who tries to win before some of these even come on line
its a great wonder, especially if you're planning for around 250 turns or more!
St.Basil seems a bit situational to put in A tier. Taj Mahal could also go down a tier; there are so many ways to earn era score past mid-game that it's usually overkill. I find Etemenanki iffy, it incentivizes preserving floodplains but then where do I place districts, on hills? Idk, maybe I just don't know how to utilize it's early-game powerspike, but then it does cost a lot of resources in the first place to get. Otherwise I mostly agree with your list.
edit: Oh, and I have to add, I honestly don't see why Oracle is so highly rated. Deity AI likes to spam project so much that it doesn't really do much. I just don't think it's worth the tempo loss of building a wonder early in the game.
I have to disagree with putting the Golden Gate Bridge in F tier. If you have a city with a National Park and and you're going for a tourism victory, and the city can build the Golden Gate Bridge, I think it's clearly worth it. If it's not in a city with a National Park, it's not worth it. But I think that it's useful just often enough to be a D tier wonder. I love doing tourism victory games, so I choose that path quite often, and there are times when I do build this wonder because it is useful.
I think this is better than the D tier Meenakshi temple which I wouldn't build even if I was going for a religious victory.
Yeah I think a year later I would probably rank it differently - meenakshi is probably one of the worse ones out of the bunch for sure
My favorite order to tackle this wonder list is by era, then the context of the earlier wonders is present as you get into later wonders.
Worth noting if you are using the secret society vampires, Chichan Nza becomes a lot better. It makes an amazing vampire castle if you can get 3-4 surrounding it rainforest tiles surrounding it
Alhambra at D tier huh. At its worst this wonder reads (+1 movement to all your units in your territory). I agree it is the worst of the Policy card wonders but I still feel this is a B or C
Just a case that happened to me recently. I was playing with Cristina of Sweden and I built the Apadana then I spent most turns in may main city making wonders and just when I got build the Oxford University I got the achievement of making 7 wonders in the main city the Apadana is in. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
Pyramids give an extra charge to existing builders too similar to what Mausoleum does to engineers. It could be a good idea to delay using the last charge on a builder if pyramids is coming up pretty soon.
Eiffel tower in c is a crime. C for crime.
I like Venetian. Halves the production or naval units. Extremely useful if you primarily have coastal cities for defense and having a dominant naval presence.
Venetian Arsenal is not above S tier? What is this blasphemy that I am seeing?!
make it double ship purchased by gold/faith too and it will be an instant A tier
mau is so good. every win condition i want i still think "right, i need coastal city for my mausoleum"
Half the time I build terracotta is just to level up my spies so they stop dying 😂
This is prob the worst tier list ive seen for civ6, and the explainations are from someone id expect that has maybe 100 hours in the game.
Surprising and sad. I almost feel embarrassed. Some things are opinions, but there is an objective range where once you go out of that you are just demonstrating your lack of understanding but still explaining it as if you are qualified to make recommendations.
The only thing I disagree with is Forbidden City. In my opinion it is the single most versatile and effective wonder in the game. It makes every single victory condition one policy slot easier, and we know how insane of a difference a single policy card can make.
BOES! Just letting you know I love your work and your personality. I just discovered you recently when I picked up CIV. Binge watching a ton of your videos has helped me greatly as I’m going through some really tough times. Been trying to catch a stream but it’s super hard with work, keep up the great work my dude!
i'm glad youv'e been enjoying it!!
Good list, I do like to build a Petra city if I see a desert natural wonder tho. Petra makes those tiles great, fast. Plus the and AI usually wont snipe you on it if you wait around a bit
TSL huge map Australia, Uluru smack bang in the middle surrounded by desert, plus Austrlias outback station make it broken tbh
That's a lot of wonderful tiers
Eiffel tower C? That kinda surprised me. Anyways, great video
I think you are on the right track with a Deity Tier. The Deity AI rushes early wonders except for TOA so hard that they usually aren't worth going for.
Yeah some of them are just unbearable to go for, like you CAN get great bath if you try super hard but its generally not worth going for
And of course you're just inviting early rushes with those wonders. Heck, even in the even multiplayer starts I've had a game where someone rushed the Great Bath when spawning next to my teammate who went with Montezuma - those sick yields were Aztec yields by the start of the classical era lol
The extra tier should be called “an unmet player has built” tier
i always thought ankor wat was more of a playing wide wonder as the bonus applies to more cities
I think Golden Gate should be D tier, just because you can spam city-state or civ improvements that provide tourism and get a killer tourism city reasonably often with it, especially if you plan to do so fairly far in advance. Most of the time I get it I can turn the city into a good tourism city using it, the problem is just finding somewhere to build it.
ok but on multiplayer
ok but playing against my friends
What makes Ruhr Valley A tier and not S? I’m just curious, I thought for space race projects it was ridiculously strong, like to the point of maybe being the strongest wonder for that victory type
Venice Arsenal at the end of C, funny.......
Gotta say, I love how standardized the tier list is. Always bothered me when someone made a tier, and half the stuff is S or A tier
Lovin the content Mr. Boes.
I haven't started watching yet but I know the GGB is gonna get a bad rep and Im Here to defend my precious wonder that could.
Some wonders you just wanna build for the simplest reason that "oh shit I can actually build this!"
Also it's a fuckin bridge in a game that oddly enough lacks BRIDGES. it looks so cool against everything else
we love a good bridge
@@boesthius amen to that my good man! 🍻
Jebel and Apadana are some wonders that I've been sleeping on, I will give them a try in my next game.
Honestly, Orszaghaz is excellent for a domination victory. If you're getting diplo punished by the AI bc you've already wiped a couple civs, that extra diplo favor can keep unwanted emergencies off your back, or it at the very least keeps you still at least a little relevant in world congress, which might be the difference between a dom win and loss.
I would argue Petra is an occasional great wonder. Misunderstood, though.
It turns useless desert lands into a great city, often as strong as the capital, depending on tiles of desert hills.
Extremely useful in desperate situation.
Much less when alternatives are available.
It is C tier if you could get enough good cities elsewhere.
It could be S tier if a powerhouse is needed, like, when
- space is limited, you only got 6 cities or so due to poor crowded spawn
- land is quite flat, even without much woods. most of your cities have very low production
Then petra could literally save your game.
Petra is overrated if you are trying to find a petra city, not if you have to build one.
Totally agree, I can get not placing it in S tier because it’s not useful in every game, but it is way above C tier. I’ve literally had a Petra city win me a tight Science game because the city had insane production when I had limited space.
Petra in a desert hills city with the Ruhr Valley is amazing. Considering when you can get the Petra, the benefits are actually pretty strong
if you don't want to see content on youtube, there's a way to mark a video as "not interested." Very useful if the algo starts recommending the new hotness that you don't care about but accidentally clicked on one video in the genre and are getting flooded with them. Much better than marking them as disliked because clicking on the video actually communicates that you're interested in it somewhat. @randomguy in the intro.
PS. Big Ben translates to Large Lenjamin, not Large Ben.
Hey can you run by me why you chop everything? Am I wrong for thinking that the long term benefits vastly outway the short term gain? The exception for me being chopping woods and rainforest, sometimes you need the housing from farms instead.
I trust your skill, you being a much more skilled player than I. I'm just baffled that you always harvest your bonus resources... help me understand por favor
IF Jebel Barkal could be built on any Hill, it would at least be A-tier for me; however, because of it's Desert Hill restriction, B-tier is a great choice. Great Wonder, just hard to build it if you don't have a Desert start
Pyramids, Colosseum, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Ruhr Valley, and Venetian Arsenal are the wonders I really try for. I never thought the end game wonders were very good, but now that the end game takes a lot longer than it used to, before all the future tech/ civics additions, I may have to rethink my stance on late game wonders
Obviously, Civ 6 is VERY different from Civ 5, which I played a lot in Immortal. But it's so interesting to see what's changed from one game to the other. I remember Alhambra being one of the best wonders and seeing it like this is kinda sad.
One thing you didn’t mention about Machu pichu is good because you can build it on a mountain so it doesn’t take up a tile. I would put it in C tier. Also I find that deity AI doesn’t push it as often, but that’s just anecdotal, sometimes it’s gone crazy fast
To be fair, certain types of CIVs, and situations may change which wonders make sense to build. For Amanitore, and John Curtin, a Petra/desert capital could really kick ass….St. Basil’s Cathedral/tundra with Russia or Canada is another one if you’re into tile resource porn.
Unless the exploit regarding the Great Bath has been fixed then its an F tier otherwise it's an S tier. All it takes is this wonder a few soothsays and just call a natural disaster in your capital near a floodplain or a river. You can create GIGA YIELDS at those locations that infinitely get better each time the soothsayer calls a flood or a 1000y old flood.
You can also combine this exploit with vampire castles to get a powerful vampire castle that combines all those tiles to get SUPER GIGA YIELDS!
I'm not super far off from you on Petra. Yeah it can be great, but why sink all the resources and production into it if there are plenty of fresh water grassland/plains cities available.
Your AI rushes Hanging Gardens? Mine never does. I usually end up being able to build it around turn 90 after I finish settling my heartland. I wonder why people seem to have such different Deity AIs.
Victoria: You tread on dangerous waters in the face of England and her loyal colonies.
Player: Ha! I have Venetian Arsenal. What are you gonna do about it?
Seaside resorts become insanely good w/ Golden Gate Bridge, extra 4 gold and 4 tourism from each resort. Do agree on Colosseum, I need to build it more lol, still great video, your insight is super interesting.
I am traumatized of kilwa… there is this game where I get it and deity AI cockkilled every city state I was suzerain of.
I played Pericles once, and got Alhambra, forbidden city, Big Ben, and potala palace w/ owls of Minerva. I think I got 2 military, 4 economic, 3 diplomatic, and 4 wildcard slots in a merchant republic, pretty fun game ngl
Mausoleum+Maui+Auckland+god of the sea = god tier coastal city. I cried when I have to remove 1 fish tile because I needed to build statue of liberty (I need it to keep Paris loyal, I was playing Robespierre, a mod by sukitract and Paris was permanently losing loyalty due to me building too many wonders in Paris).
I build the Apadana all of the time because the AI is too allergic to it and +2 culture ain't that bad on my theater district
As for favorite wonder, Petra is always awesome but gettinf Pyramids up is almost euphoric for me
12:48 boy do I have a screenshot to show you boes
I had three fires in central africa (tsl earth) on those rainforests, then built the itza nearby, lumbermilled all of them, every single tile was at least 7 food, 8 production, 2 culture. Also got a diamond corporation in that city. 😫👌 had almost 30 pop and did the exoplanet launch in 20ish turns
unfortunately the screenshot is before the lumbermills, I just checked it and everything is a 4/4
Good list from my experience playing on Deity. Your S tiers are all the pretty much objectively correct choices.
I would argue that Oracle should be in S tier with the others though, it’s impact on a game is pretty much irreplaceable.
Generally you gave a lot of credit to the wonders that give additional slots, except Alhambra for some reason? I don’t really understand Alhambras low placement. That extra military slot can be so impactful. Oftentimes if you’re constantly warmongering you’re going to want some combination of (and apologies as I don’t know the card names off the top of my head) the Raid, Unit Maintenance reduction, 50% off Resource/Gold upgrade cost, 50% extra unit production cost, and potentially others like the extra accumulation of strategic resources and that extra policy slot is SO valuable. I know you can time things and constantly change out your government cards but a lot of the ones I mentioned you don’t really ever want to take out if you can avoid it.
Great Library also is maybe too low. The sheer amount of value it generates over the course of a science game in its great scientist points + boosts goes a long way to chipping off those valuable turns leading into and after researching the Spaceport. I understand that you gave it a small penalty because it’s hard to get on Deity, but when Stonehenge can make S tier despite it also being very difficult to make, it feels too harsh.
As for wonders that are maybe too high, Huey Teocalli feels like a prime candidate. While theoretically it can be a very good wonder to get, those potential amenities gains are real,it’s super situational and has a lot of factors going against it. You need to have a city on a prime lake position, to justify making it you would likely need at least 4+ adjacent lake tiles so it needs to be a sizeable one as well. Generally building a city on a lake never feels great, you can get the harbour but you lose out on access to the ocean for trade routes and coastal resources, with pretty much no gains to make up for it. It’s also in a weird spot on the tech tree where it isn’t too deep it but it sucks to prioritize because it leads nowhere of value very quickly when you would much rather be going top tree most of the time. Also I swear it’s built just as quickly as something like macchu picchu in my games but maybe that’s just me.
Good video overall, thanks boes 👍
So many wonders i didn't realize all their potentials
I have the same S Tier list but with all these descriptions, i thought to build a giga empire with science and production modifiers for a fast Space victory (all wonders with science modifier and all wonders with production modifiers)
the venetian arsenal is definitely only good in specific circumstances, but there was one game where i was playing as germany, was in the atomic era and noticed that no-one had built it yet; managed to crank it out in like 12 turns, then used it to make like 6 u-boat armadas. granted i didn't really use them for anything but it was still fun to have
I've actually managed to get Stonehenge on deity at least once, maybe twice. The production value is rarely worth it compared to other wonders you could be chasing early game. The first time I built Stonehenge on deity, something didn't feel right. I checked the difficulty and sure enough my settings weren't saved and I was actually playing on Prince.
Any wonder that gives a policy slot is automatically minimum C tier. Especially when chichen itza is somehow there at C tier. Alhambra is definitely better than that since it can help your whole empire. Maybe its veterancy when you've got lots of harbors, craftsmen for IZ adjacency, integrated space cell etc. Far more potential utility.
To me any policy slot wonders are automatically S-tier. I don't care about any other bonuses, a policy card slot is going to be vastly, vastly more powerful than any other effects from any wonder in the game. Alhambra being D-tier is insanity to me.
Situationally, some wonders might be better than an extra policy card slot... But throughout the game, when you can always choose the best card, while bonuses from wonders stay static, I don't think any wonder in the game is beating free policy card slot.
Edit: Wait, you put Forbidden Palace on A tier and not S..? Is this list a troll? What even is going on? Even if one hates military policy slots, I think you just can't have played the game if wildcard slot isn't just S+++ tier wonder automatically.
The other time you build Petra is when Nazca is in the game. Stonehenge is honestly awful though, saying as someone rarely plays on Deity. If you're hoping to play religion you will need to build Holy Sites and will get your Prophet eventually anyway. The production is 10x better spent on an early holy site + shrine.
I kinda disagree about Petra a bit. Building bad city and investing into it to become just above average is good point, but i think it's more a B-tier cause it suits desery civs and more imporantly "fixes" problem when you don't have a lot of good land or are resticted by other players. I usually plan "desert" city to have both petra and ruhr to become spaceport city at end game like you said or just encampment city which pops units like a printer.
The biggest thing about the Oracle is that you can faith-buy every great person 25% cheaper, not just heroes. That's really game-changing as it can save you thousands of faith.
My rule is to always look for one desert city with hills in which i will build petra. AI does not value it so its a free build whenever. I sometimes even leave it for later part of the game for when i already have recruited the engeneer that builds it in 1 turn. With that i then build rurh valey wonder and have around 200/300 production i my desert city which then becomes my spaceport dreamland. Depending on the map and the playing civ tho everything changes. One thing however remains no matter the civ you play. Extra card slots wonders are a tier of its own 100%. I build at least 2 every single game i play. Most of the time i build all of them except the military one obviously. Military policy slots are the worst by far since i do not enjoy domination victories. Its way to simple. Rather play wc3 if i wanna control armies and destroy shit. Good tier list tho.
Hah! I suck at this game but managed to get Etemenanki on Deity. Maybe it’s only possible using Hammurabi, but it does not belong in an “ungettable” tier. I strung together eurekas and got Eremenanki and Hanging Gardens by something like turn 35. Maybe a bit later but I was pretty proud given the difficulty setting and my general ineptitude. Hammurabi is not to be trifled with.
Ooosh, Eiffel Tower c tier... If youre playing Australia (which i do almost every game, Aussie here), then Eiffel is definite S tier, due to Australia bonuses based on appeal.
By the way you should do a unique unit tier list, or unique improvements, I haven’t seen anyone make one of those yet.
I will disagree with the assessment of the Eiffel Tower wonder. Eiffel tower also gives a huge housing boost to neighborhoods and seaside resorts. When combined with the Public Transport economic policy, cities grow crazy fast and make a ton of production & money. Excellent for any game type. I would rank it A tier.
I kinda miss Saving Light :'(
i want to bring it back but also idk how to do it smoothly sadge