For being what is essentially an information dump episode, I find "No Exit" to be absolutely enthralling. Apart from the exposition, you have Ellen's waking up and freaking out, then calming down as her memories are reintegrated. Plus Tyrol and Adama coming to grips with the physical state of the Galactica. And as the centerpiece, Cavil's amazing speech about wanting to be a machine. Dean Stockwell knocked it out of the park.
yep, they were struggles with budget throughout the miniseries and season 1 so the prop department came out with this "cutting corners" thing and it became part of the show in more than one ways. Thats why there are a lot of things ( including their dossiers, papers, etc ) without corners
Totally forgot about that, but hearing that Cavil stopped sleeping 20 years ago explains so much. If we don't sleep for a few days our behavior also changes drastically...
@@neutchain7838 Exactly. Also higher aggression levels, lower patience,... He thought he could fix that imperfection himself because he's a machine, but he was created to be like humans, just like the other models (2-8).
One of the great monologues: Brother Cavil: I saw a star explode and send out the building blocks of the Universe. Other stars, other planets and eventually other life. A supernova! Creation itself! I was there. I wanted to see it and be part of the moment. And you know how I perceived one of the most glorious events in the universe? With these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull! With eyes designed to perceive only a tiny fraction of the EM spectrum. With ears designed only to hear vibrations in the air. ... I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I'm trapped in this absurd body! And why? Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way!
In my dreams I would love to hear a young Dean Stockwell say those lines to Katherine Hepburn on screen. Although then, he would just whisper and mumble them in his best Marlon Brando/Dean Stockwell/Montgomery Cliff method acting best. Then she would shake her head back at him while staring with those liquid, piercing blue eyes. It would be an Oscar winning moment. Crazy as it is, this monologue was perfect enough a reason to build 4 seasons of behind the scenes puppetry for everything that happens in the show. What I have never figured out is, who the Cylon model having Ty's baby????????????????????????????????????????
When posting this, I am still paused early in the episode right after Adama asked Tyrol to be "Chief" again. I paused to point out what a great moment this is. You can see that Adama is still somewhat pained and conflicted about accepting Cylons. But at the same time, you can see logical, consistent growth bringing him to the point where he is now finally recognizing that these Cylons really are "people," and that ones like Tigh and Tyrol really are the same people he grew to trust and befriend for many years. The arc is really beautiful, and is both superbly written and superbly acted, especially when you take into account that it is an almost 4-season arc that has been written and acted over that entire period.
At this point, Michael Trucco had just survived a major car crash and was severely injured. He recently said on the Katee Sackhoff podcast that these scenes of him in the last few episodes where really difficult for him.
Harbinger: person or thing that foretells an event soon to occur. The harbinger announces the imminent event -is not necessarily the cause of the event. To lead them to their end: maybe their death, but also: maybe their destiny, their goal.
One major correction regarding Starbuck (not a spoiler): She is not the "harbinger of death AND DESTRUCTION." She is the "harbinger of death." I'm not sure where you guys got and added the "and destruction," but that is not what was said about her. And it is an important difference that is not just semantics. I love the speculation about what that means and what she is. I will resist the temptation to say anything else on that front other than: yes, it will be addressed eventually.
The Real-Life explanation for the Cylon numbering issue is the showrunners did not have a master plan when they started the series. It was written in the Miniseries that there are 12 Cylon Models and started right off with Number 6 and Number 8. (We would later find out the others introduced in the miniseries were Numbers 2 and 5.) I'm sure they hoped to reveal a new hidden Cylon every four or five episodes each season but the serialized story they started down the path on did not allow for such often and periodic reveals. Once the show was in Season 3, the producers made the decision the show would have one last 4th season and wrap up. This is when they really started laying clues as to who the Final Five might be in the second half of Season 3 - deciding they would not be numbered models because they were special for some reason - but as Season 4 began they realized they had made a mistake by calling the Shannon models Number 8. The reveal of a lost Number 7 called Daniel in this episode was their attempt to explain away the numbering discrepancy in a way that made it clear to the audience that all the humanoid Cylon models had been revealed. Starbuck was definitely not a Cylon, so the mystery for the audience was trying to figure out exactly what Starbuck actually was?
Amigos...just an fyi...we don't KNOW that Kara is a cylon....keep open minds. Of course ya'll will find out soon enough. As always, thanks for another fun reaction. ☺️💚
Bonus fact that's not mentioned in the show but is confirmed by the creator: the ship the Final Five travelled from the 13th Tribe to the Colonies in is at the very core of the Cylon Colony Ship John mentions to Ellen. The Cylons built around and expanded it.
Anders' gunshot wound is due to a serious real-life car accident involving actor Michael Trucco, in which he broke his neck. The vehicle flipped on an embankment, landing upside-down. Trucco was badly injured in the collision, fracturing four of his vertebrae. The writers incorporated his injury into the show.
Daniel began as a retcon to rationalize the disparity between the numerical order, and the actual number of cylon versions. But the retcon took a life of its own. There are some amazing fan theories about the identity of Daniel, and the nature of Starbuck. They could have made an entire spinoff series on these theories alone.
What an episode! And at long last…you know the real Cavill. John’s a broken boy, who never quite grew up. Mommy issues are no joke, people 😂 Oh, and Kate Vernon is awesome here!
@@732ReviewCrew "I'm ze doc that fixes ze brains!" "Yeah? Then why is yours so messed up?" To be fair, it must suck to be the only neurosurgeon in the fleet.
This is the episode that made Cavil not just a great villain but one of the best villains of all time. With humans the question of human limitations is a bit moot, whether you believe in a creator or not. Either we evolved through natural processes and our capabilities and limitations are the natural results of that or we were created and that creator isn't around to ask questions or complain to. But Cavil knows he was created and one of his creators is sitting in front him talking to him. He could have been designed with the capability to observe and explore the entire universe for the rest of time, but his creator chose to limit him to human capabilities and saddle him with a mind susceptible to mental illness and emotional turmoil. I can't imagine the frustration. He feels he could easily have been better than what he is. Cavil is certainly evil machine but his basic frustration and motivation is very human and very compelling.
Guys you gotta let this FTL thing go ( although it seems like by the end you did) . :) The jumpdrives are those moving parts you've seen in the episode when the Chief sabotaged it. It's at the very bottom on the ship covered by a thick layer of armor. Ships ( even sailing ships ) are built by laying the keel and the frames of the ship which serves as a skeleton for everything that comes after. It's like the foundation and the beams in a building. When he was down there he noticed that the frames have those cracks, it has nothing to do with the FTL. I would imagine he knew how to disable the FTL drives without permanently crippling the ship and thus the fleet. The new mainline Battlestar the fleet was using ( Valkyrie class ) that you could see the Bulldog episode and in the miniseries is a much smaller ( a little larger than 1/3 of Galactica ) vessel with the fraction of the capability of the Mercury class ( Pegasus ) or even that of the Galactica. Must less armoring, less fighters, less weapons but very mobile. She has barely any armouring on her belly and you could actually see the jumpdrives exposed unlike other Battlestars with a lot of armor there. It makes sense, the fleet was saving money, they have not seen real combat for over 4 decades so there were no need for those giant ships. They needed smaller more agile vessels to maintain security and do some general policing and anti-pirate operations. You should watch Blood and Chrome ( a standalone movie like Razor ) which is about an operation during the First Cylon War and has Adama and the Galactica in it ( in her prime full of weapons ), that movie has a really cool scene with a Battlestar's FTL drive. BTW now that it has been revealed that Cavill knew who the final five was this whole time. Now go back to his first scene where he talks to the Chief after he almost killed Cally and he was telling him "well maybe becasue you're a Cylon". :) These revelations adds SO MUCH more context to earlier scenes, the re-watch value of this show is really high. Dean Stockwell was amazing through the show as Brother Cavill.
Yes in physical structure, it's nothing to do with the FTL, But the stresses of jumping do have something to do with the damage, alongside the battle damage and the ships age..
@@Markus117d Oh yeah ofc I was just saying those cracks are in the frames, the JD is fine. The Galactica is an old ship, a veteran of the first war and she has been through some shit in that. She should've been decommissioned a long time ago. Then they take her, rearm her, facetank a nuke, spend the first five days to jump her about 200 times, take a shit ton of damage, a heavy raider literally rammed into her only working flight pod, jump her into high-atmo on New Caprica, take some more damage, etc... Its a wonder she is still in one piece.
My head canon is that a divinely reincarnated Daniel is Starbuck's dad. Him being an artist fits with the little bit we already know and some of what we learn about her dad, but I think he was right actually reincarnated before the final 5 were placed into the colonies, possibly even before Cavil actually savatoged all of the Daniel copies. The timelines not lining up is the big flaw in the theory but I think it's a good possibility otherwise which is why I have the one god intervening and sending his reincarnated essence backwards in time to be the right age to father Starbuck.
Just one word of advice: Don't expect answers to everything. The Daniel story was just a way for the writers to "fix" the numbering for the Cylon models. Otherwise, one of the Final Five would have to be number 7, and that made no sense. However, it sparked my own theories about Daniel... just as it did to you guys.
The Cylon hating old man who's also a Cylon having a baby with the hot young Cylon who is spiritually his child and the Cylon matriarch finding out, all whilst none of them knew who they really were is the greatest concept for an episode of Maurey Povich ever.
The Five arrive in the Colonies and end the first Cylon War 40 years prior to the miniseries. From roughly 40 to 30 years prior the Five create the 8 humanoid models and introduce resurrection technology. At some time during this decade and after the 7 surviving models are functioning, Cavil (more properly, John) traps the Five and kills them, boxing their personalities. Shortly after, he resurrects Tigh and Ellen with 'human' memories and releases them into Colonial society. Roughly ten years after the war ended, Adama meets Tigh and they become close friends. [It is unclear of Tigh and Ellen were resurrected together as a married couple - since the flashbacks early in season 2 implied Ellen was part of the reason Tigh was depressed enough to unalive himself before Adama brought him (back?) into the fleet - but they may have met and married purely by coincidence.] It can be assumed that Tyrol was next to be released roughly 20 years prior to the miniseries as he had served aboard three battlestars and was nearing retirement at 20 years when the miniseries occurred. Finally Tory and Anders would have been released roughly 10 years ahead of the miniseries. Anders was famous enough in Pyramid, but still relatively early in his career and Tory... well, who knows what exactly she was doing in the Colonies and just happened to be in the right place at the right time within the fleet to replace Billy when he was killed. I find it amazing that - even when clearly stated otherwise - Joe is STILL convinced at this point that Kara Thrace is a Cylon. Fortunately it is all clarified by the end of the series.
Starbuck.... ( Not a spoiler,, just a theory ).... Organic Memory Transfer came from Kobol with the 13.. Kobol where men lived together with the Gods. And also apparently created the first Cylons. Humans left Kobol and founded the 12 colonies.. The Cylons went to earth and.. did their cylon thing..... What about the "Gods"? Perhaps the gods/god still has Organic memory transfer. And they it is still out there?
Guys, if you ever watch an interview with the writers, youll find that they made a mistake when they refered to Boomer as an 8. It was a miss count that didn't get noticed until it was too late. Thats why they came up with no. 7, the Daniels. There were only supposed to be 12 Cylons.
Six, Sharon, Leoben, Rick Worthy, Doral, Cavil, Deanna, Tori, Sam, Galen, Tigh, Ellen. There were always 12. Like you said they said a number wrong and there were easier ways around it to be honest.
Another BANGER discussion. I have a teeny tiny gripe with you though Mikey, you made me super sad in this discussion. Galactica is a 'she' not an 'it', that you aren't granting her character status hurts me. Joe, love the lengths you're going to in making your theory about Kara work. But. Occam's razor suggests you've had to invent an awful lot of story not given. Just sayin'. Mike, I've never been happier to see someone's theory be proven right. I was delighted for you 😁 and can *finally* say how goddam impressed I was when you first suggested that the Five created the other skin-jobs. I CANNOT WAIT to see your reactions to the last few episodes. 😘
@@732ReviewCrew Jamie Bamber’s wife is Kerry Norton. She speaks in their natural accent. Lee is using an American accent for the show. But he’s British
Ya know, I never thought about the "needing love to reproduce" thing very much, but now that you guys were walking about it, I can imagine how they could actually engineer that. They could have made the female models so they only ovulate when they're regularly producing oxytocin, or something. The males, maybe it's something similar with gonadal function. It's interesting, never really thought about it until now...
And there it is! The 5 gave the 12 colonies' cylons the resurrection technology. They can't just remake the ship because they have no idea how. So once it got destroyed that was it unless the 5 built it again.
Daniel is the complete opposite of Cavill. And Cavill jealous and hates that, and that is why he took out Daniel for good. Then sent the five to the colonies to live with humans and to die during the attack.
@@Educated2Extinction This isn't sci-fi. It's space opera. There's literally no science involved in any moment of this show. 72 episodes in to a 76 episode show is a weird time to still be rejecting the overt themes of the show.
@@LudusAurea I don't understand why people insist on rejecting overt themes of the show either. I mean I know why they do it (they want to fit the show into their own personal worldview and headcanon), but it's ridiculous that people do it. I really do believe this modern trend of viewers hating a shows plot simply because it doesn't conform to the headcanon they made up in their own head started with BSG. Like @acorlite mentioned we've been told explicitly what some of these characters are. People acting like that's a spoiler are ridiculous. The way some people act with certain elements of this show would be equivalent to denying that the force exists in the Star Wars universe or that magic exists in the world of Lord of the Rings. A lot of react channels covering BSG lately have been doing this weird denial of the show's overt themes and it's been super disappointing.
Interesting little note, Boomer is the only other cylon to know the identity of Ellen as one of the final five. Presumably, even before D'Anna sees them on the algae planet and would have kept this information from the other cylons. Even her own model.
Kara isn't a cylon. It feels like it's no longer a spoiler to set this straight at this point. We don't know she's a cylon, contrary to what Joe said, because we know she's not. There isn't an answer for everything. But, the show would not keep dicking around with a mystery cylon reveal with 4 episodes left.
lol there are 2 main subjects of this show yet you most often only discuss 1 of them without taking into account the 2nd...Perhaps both can be true? Although Mikey did bring it up here it was kept short.
Ellen and Boomer, jetted out of there in real time. Ellen respawned 4 months ago, but time has passed. The resurrection ship was destroyed. They are in current time.
🔔 TRC @ 16:44 ➡ THERE'S A GOOD WAY TO SET YOUR EXPECTATIONS ABOUT BSG GIVING REVELATIONS: 🔔 EXPECT NOTHING AND YOU'LL NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED, IF ANYTHING ONLY PLEASANTLY SURPRISED!
Not only that but it was absolutely never even implied she was a cylon. S04E10 was an intentional red herring. They may finally accept it after Kara's last scene rolls. in Episode 21/22/23.
@@LMarti13 I've watched a few react channels cover BSG and most of them thought this up to the very end. It's bizarre. It comes from them completely dismissing major themes of the show because it's not what they want to happen. It's super frustrating
Too bad. I wanted to convince you so much that the 7 is Starbuck 😂But now it's clear who Cylon is. You will find out who or what Starbuck is in the last episode of the epic finale of this fantastic series.
They were travelling at superliminal speeds not sublight, Anders is saying that time was working differently for them and thousands of years passed during their trip from Earth to the 12 colonies, how that is possible when the fleet made the same trip in a couple years uh, I don't know...
Because they (the fleet) are using FTL _jump_ drives. They don't travel through space, they make leaps from one location to another, more or less, instantly. Rewatch from 7:08-7:18 (or 19:00 - 19:15 in the full episode). It's only a couple of lines, but Sam explains the difference between Jumpdrives (FTL) and subluminal, relativistic space travel.
Because the colonies have jump technology, Which bypasses space time, Achieving a FTL drive without actually travelling faster than light, So sidestepping relativity. The final 5 ship 's traveled through space rather than around it, And so were subject to the effects of time dilation..
Because the fleet was using FTL travel. He said relativistic speeds. That's how relativity works in all fiction. Close to but over or under the speed of light = relativity, time dilation.
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For being what is essentially an information dump episode, I find "No Exit" to be absolutely enthralling.
Apart from the exposition, you have Ellen's waking up and freaking out, then calming down as her memories are reintegrated. Plus Tyrol and Adama coming to grips with the physical state of the Galactica.
And as the centerpiece, Cavil's amazing speech about wanting to be a machine. Dean Stockwell knocked it out of the park.
"They cut corners" and NOW we know why there isn't a single entire square shape in all this show.
I just got this joke 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I fraking love it
The running gag from the prop department that run through the whole series
😂😂😂😂
yep, they were struggles with budget throughout the miniseries and season 1 so the prop department came out with this "cutting corners" thing and it became part of the show in more than one ways. Thats why there are a lot of things ( including their dossiers, papers, etc ) without corners
Totally forgot about that, but hearing that Cavil stopped sleeping 20 years ago explains so much. If we don't sleep for a few days our behavior also changes drastically...
thats why he had tha constant spiking headache lol
@@neutchain7838 Exactly. Also higher aggression levels, lower patience,...
He thought he could fix that imperfection himself because he's a machine, but he was created to be like humans, just like the other models (2-8).
It is absolutely hilarious how certain Joe is that Starbuck is a cylon. Like 5 episodes before the end of the show
NOTHING ELSE MAKES SENSE!!!!!!🤣
One of the great monologues:
Brother Cavil:
I saw a star explode and send out the building blocks of the Universe. Other stars, other planets and eventually other life. A supernova! Creation itself! I was there. I wanted to see it and be part of the moment. And you know how I perceived one of the most glorious events in the universe? With these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull! With eyes designed to perceive only a tiny fraction of the EM spectrum. With ears designed only to hear vibrations in the air. ...
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I'm trapped in this absurd body! And why? Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way!
The soundtrack coming in at "With these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull!" always gives me chills
In my dreams I would love to hear a young Dean Stockwell say those lines to Katherine Hepburn on screen. Although then, he would just whisper and mumble them in his best Marlon Brando/Dean Stockwell/Montgomery Cliff method acting best. Then she would shake her head back at him while staring with those liquid, piercing blue eyes. It would be an Oscar winning moment. Crazy as it is, this monologue was perfect enough a reason to build 4 seasons of behind the scenes puppetry for everything that happens in the show.
What I have never figured out is, who the Cylon model having Ty's baby????????????????????????????????????????
And here we are, you at last see the real Ellen! Kate Vernon is such a cool actress able to play both parts of Ellen so perfectly.
Possibly the best cast ever.
yea she def has that rare range, so many actors are type cast they never get the chance to show it too
enjoyed her performance thoroughly
When posting this, I am still paused early in the episode right after Adama asked Tyrol to be "Chief" again. I paused to point out what a great moment this is. You can see that Adama is still somewhat pained and conflicted about accepting Cylons. But at the same time, you can see logical, consistent growth bringing him to the point where he is now finally recognizing that these Cylons really are "people," and that ones like Tigh and Tyrol really are the same people he grew to trust and befriend for many years. The arc is really beautiful, and is both superbly written and superbly acted, especially when you take into account that it is an almost 4-season arc that has been written and acted over that entire period.
At this point, Michael Trucco had just survived a major car crash and was severely injured. He recently said on the Katee Sackhoff podcast that these scenes of him in the last few episodes where really difficult for him.
Ah. Wow that makes it even more emotional
Harbinger:
person or thing that foretells an event soon to occur.
The harbinger announces the imminent event -is not necessarily the cause of the event.
To lead them to their end: maybe their death, but also: maybe their destiny, their goal.
One major correction regarding Starbuck (not a spoiler): She is not the "harbinger of death AND DESTRUCTION." She is the "harbinger of death." I'm not sure where you guys got and added the "and destruction," but that is not what was said about her. And it is an important difference that is not just semantics.
I love the speculation about what that means and what she is. I will resist the temptation to say anything else on that front other than: yes, it will be addressed eventually.
The Real-Life explanation for the Cylon numbering issue is the showrunners did not have a master plan when they started the series. It was written in the Miniseries that there are 12 Cylon Models and started right off with Number 6 and Number 8. (We would later find out the others introduced in the miniseries were Numbers 2 and 5.) I'm sure they hoped to reveal a new hidden Cylon every four or five episodes each season but the serialized story they started down the path on did not allow for such often and periodic reveals.
Once the show was in Season 3, the producers made the decision the show would have one last 4th season and wrap up. This is when they really started laying clues as to who the Final Five might be in the second half of Season 3 - deciding they would not be numbered models because they were special for some reason - but as Season 4 began they realized they had made a mistake by calling the Shannon models Number 8. The reveal of a lost Number 7 called Daniel in this episode was their attempt to explain away the numbering discrepancy in a way that made it clear to the audience that all the humanoid Cylon models had been revealed. Starbuck was definitely not a Cylon, so the mystery for the audience was trying to figure out exactly what Starbuck actually was?
*Joe doubles down on Starbuck *
Gotta give it to Mikey, he's put a lot of thought into this.
Amigos...just an fyi...we don't KNOW that Kara is a cylon....keep open minds. Of course ya'll will find out soon enough.
As always, thanks for another fun reaction.
☺️💚
Just as we don't KNOW anything about Earth.
@@MrCzerilloit a planet. Its name starts with the letter E..
Bonus fact that's not mentioned in the show but is confirmed by the creator: the ship the Final Five travelled from the 13th Tribe to the Colonies in is at the very core of the Cylon Colony Ship John mentions to Ellen.
The Cylons built around and expanded it.
That's pretty cool
Anders' gunshot wound is due to a serious real-life car accident involving actor Michael Trucco, in which he broke his neck. The vehicle flipped on an embankment, landing upside-down. Trucco was badly injured in the collision, fracturing four of his vertebrae. The writers incorporated his injury into the show.
Daniel began as a retcon to rationalize the disparity between the numerical order, and the actual number of cylon versions.
But the retcon took a life of its own.
There are some amazing fan theories about the identity of Daniel, and the nature of Starbuck.
They could have made an entire spinoff series on these theories alone.
What an episode! And at long last…you know the real Cavill. John’s a broken boy, who never quite grew up. Mommy issues are no joke, people 😂 Oh, and Kate Vernon is awesome here!
"Hello, I'm a Mac."
"And I'm a neurosurgeon with a terrible bedside manner."
I thought he felt familiar!
Also as a radiology tech, he was pretty on par for neuro
@@732ReviewCrew "I'm ze doc that fixes ze brains!"
"Yeah? Then why is yours so messed up?"
To be fair, it must suck to be the only neurosurgeon in the fleet.
Ya'll have some of the best after show chats when it comes to Battlestar Galactica!!!☺️💚
We're gonna need a bigger tinfoil hat.
This is the episode that made Cavil not just a great villain but one of the best villains of all time. With humans the question of human limitations is a bit moot, whether you believe in a creator or not. Either we evolved through natural processes and our capabilities and limitations are the natural results of that or we were created and that creator isn't around to ask questions or complain to. But Cavil knows he was created and one of his creators is sitting in front him talking to him. He could have been designed with the capability to observe and explore the entire universe for the rest of time, but his creator chose to limit him to human capabilities and saddle him with a mind susceptible to mental illness and emotional turmoil. I can't imagine the frustration. He feels he could easily have been better than what he is. Cavil is certainly evil machine but his basic frustration and motivation is very human and very compelling.
I love how the show tells you something and you refuse to believe it. We knew Ellen was a cylon already
True.
All the way back to season one Baltar insinuated that he tested Ellen as Cylon.
Amazing how so many reactors refused to accept it. 🤷🏻♂️
Any return to Kobol exacts a price in blood. < or something like that >
Guys you gotta let this FTL thing go ( although it seems like by the end you did) . :) The jumpdrives are those moving parts you've seen in the episode when the Chief sabotaged it. It's at the very bottom on the ship covered by a thick layer of armor. Ships ( even sailing ships ) are built by laying the keel and the frames of the ship which serves as a skeleton for everything that comes after. It's like the foundation and the beams in a building. When he was down there he noticed that the frames have those cracks, it has nothing to do with the FTL. I would imagine he knew how to disable the FTL drives without permanently crippling the ship and thus the fleet.
The new mainline Battlestar the fleet was using ( Valkyrie class ) that you could see the Bulldog episode and in the miniseries is a much smaller ( a little larger than 1/3 of Galactica ) vessel with the fraction of the capability of the Mercury class ( Pegasus ) or even that of the Galactica. Must less armoring, less fighters, less weapons but very mobile. She has barely any armouring on her belly and you could actually see the jumpdrives exposed unlike other Battlestars with a lot of armor there. It makes sense, the fleet was saving money, they have not seen real combat for over 4 decades so there were no need for those giant ships. They needed smaller more agile vessels to maintain security and do some general policing and anti-pirate operations.
You should watch Blood and Chrome ( a standalone movie like Razor ) which is about an operation during the First Cylon War and has Adama and the Galactica in it ( in her prime full of weapons ), that movie has a really cool scene with a Battlestar's FTL drive.
BTW now that it has been revealed that Cavill knew who the final five was this whole time. Now go back to his first scene where he talks to the Chief after he almost killed Cally and he was telling him "well maybe becasue you're a Cylon". :) These revelations adds SO MUCH more context to earlier scenes, the re-watch value of this show is really high. Dean Stockwell was amazing through the show as Brother Cavill.
Yes in physical structure, it's nothing to do with the FTL, But the stresses of jumping do have something to do with the damage, alongside the battle damage and the ships age..
@@Markus117d
Oh yeah ofc I was just saying those cracks are in the frames, the JD is fine.
The Galactica is an old ship, a veteran of the first war and she has been through some shit in that. She should've been decommissioned a long time ago.
Then they take her, rearm her, facetank a nuke, spend the first five days to jump her about 200 times, take a shit ton of damage, a heavy raider literally rammed into her only working flight pod, jump her into high-atmo on New Caprica, take some more damage, etc... Its a wonder she is still in one piece.
My head canon is that a divinely reincarnated Daniel is Starbuck's dad. Him being an artist fits with the little bit we already know and some of what we learn about her dad, but I think he was right actually reincarnated before the final 5 were placed into the colonies, possibly even before Cavil actually savatoged all of the Daniel copies. The timelines not lining up is the big flaw in the theory but I think it's a good possibility otherwise which is why I have the one god intervening and sending his reincarnated essence backwards in time to be the right age to father Starbuck.
Just one word of advice: Don't expect answers to everything.
The Daniel story was just a way for the writers to "fix" the numbering for the Cylon models. Otherwise, one of the Final Five would have to be number 7, and that made no sense. However, it sparked my own theories about Daniel... just as it did to you guys.
Love Dean Stockwell and Kate Vernon in this one. Really enjoyed the discussion.
The Cylon hating old man who's also a Cylon having a baby with the hot young Cylon who is spiritually his child and the Cylon matriarch finding out, all whilst none of them knew who they really were is the greatest concept for an episode of Maurey Povich ever.
The wheels started turning in our heads about this 😂😂😂
Ellen... John... 🤢
@@732ReviewCrew BSG… bringing incest to the masses before it was popular.
When Ellen downloaded, she got her "old" memories back
Leoben: When I look at you, I see an angel, burning with the light of God
What a great episode, and so much explanation in this one.
This episode really fires on all cylinders on every level.
The Five arrive in the Colonies and end the first Cylon War 40 years prior to the miniseries. From roughly 40 to 30 years prior the Five create the 8 humanoid models and introduce resurrection technology. At some time during this decade and after the 7 surviving models are functioning, Cavil (more properly, John) traps the Five and kills them, boxing their personalities. Shortly after, he resurrects Tigh and Ellen with 'human' memories and releases them into Colonial society. Roughly ten years after the war ended, Adama meets Tigh and they become close friends. [It is unclear of Tigh and Ellen were resurrected together as a married couple - since the flashbacks early in season 2 implied Ellen was part of the reason Tigh was depressed enough to unalive himself before Adama brought him (back?) into the fleet - but they may have met and married purely by coincidence.] It can be assumed that Tyrol was next to be released roughly 20 years prior to the miniseries as he had served aboard three battlestars and was nearing retirement at 20 years when the miniseries occurred. Finally Tory and Anders would have been released roughly 10 years ahead of the miniseries. Anders was famous enough in Pyramid, but still relatively early in his career and Tory... well, who knows what exactly she was doing in the Colonies and just happened to be in the right place at the right time within the fleet to replace Billy when he was killed.
I find it amazing that - even when clearly stated otherwise - Joe is STILL convinced at this point that Kara Thrace is a Cylon. Fortunately it is all clarified by the end of the series.
Starbuck.... ( Not a spoiler,, just a theory ).... Organic Memory Transfer came from Kobol with the 13.. Kobol where men lived together with the Gods. And also apparently created the first Cylons. Humans left Kobol and founded the 12 colonies.. The Cylons went to earth and.. did their cylon thing..... What about the "Gods"? Perhaps the gods/god still has Organic memory transfer. And they it is still out there?
Guys, if you ever watch an interview with the writers, youll find that they made a mistake when they refered to Boomer as an 8. It was a miss count that didn't get noticed until it was too late. Thats why they came up with no. 7, the Daniels. There were only supposed to be 12 Cylons.
Ahhhhhh okay that makes sense
Six, Sharon, Leoben, Rick Worthy, Doral, Cavil, Deanna, Tori, Sam, Galen, Tigh, Ellen. There were always 12. Like you said they said a number wrong and there were easier ways around it to be honest.
Thanks to Mikey, Joe and Mike! 🦾🆚💪
Dean Stockwell is *amazing* as Cavill in this episode, but the MVP for me is the honorable Judge* Jon Hodgeman as the neurosurgeon.
Another BANGER discussion.
I have a teeny tiny gripe with you though Mikey, you made me super sad in this discussion. Galactica is a 'she' not an 'it', that you aren't granting her character status hurts me.
Joe, love the lengths you're going to in making your theory about Kara work. But. Occam's razor suggests you've had to invent an awful lot of story not given. Just sayin'.
Mike, I've never been happier to see someone's theory be proven right. I was delighted for you 😁 and can *finally* say how goddam impressed I was when you first suggested that the Five created the other skin-jobs.
I CANNOT WAIT to see your reactions to the last few episodes. 😘
😂I should know every ship is a SHE.
Awesome episode, and awesome discussion.
I agree, Clarity Ellen is definitely better than drunk,flirty,pot stirring Ellen.
I dunno drunk Ellen was toxic and hilarious. I like both🤷♂️
So yes the Cavills have known the whole time who the final 5 were they are also essentially the main villains and master manipulators
Cavil programmed an Oedipus scenario and then went through with it.
Nah this is crazy
Did you know the actress playing Ishay is Lee’s real life wife?
What!?!
@@732ReviewCrew Jamie Bamber’s wife is Kerry Norton. She speaks in their natural accent. Lee is using an American accent for the show. But he’s British
These theories are WILD!
Ya know, I never thought about the "needing love to reproduce" thing very much, but now that you guys were walking about it, I can imagine how they could actually engineer that. They could have made the female models so they only ovulate when they're regularly producing oxytocin, or something. The males, maybe it's something similar with gonadal function. It's interesting, never really thought about it until now...
And there it is! The 5 gave the 12 colonies' cylons the resurrection technology. They can't just remake the ship because they have no idea how. So once it got destroyed that was it unless the 5 built it again.
Daniel is the complete opposite of Cavill. And Cavill jealous and hates that, and that is why he took out Daniel for good. Then sent the five to the colonies to live with humans and to die during the attack.
why insist kara is a cylon when entities like head six and head gaius exist? clearly, beings other than humans and cylons exist in this show
Because this is sci-fi, where all fits within our limited understanding.
@@Educated2Extinction This isn't sci-fi. It's space opera. There's literally no science involved in any moment of this show. 72 episodes in to a 76 episode show is a weird time to still be rejecting the overt themes of the show.
@@LudusAurea That's literally nonsensical.
@@LudusAurea There literally is science all over this show.
@@LudusAurea I don't understand why people insist on rejecting overt themes of the show either. I mean I know why they do it (they want to fit the show into their own personal worldview and headcanon), but it's ridiculous that people do it. I really do believe this modern trend of viewers hating a shows plot simply because it doesn't conform to the headcanon they made up in their own head started with BSG. Like @acorlite mentioned we've been told explicitly what some of these characters are. People acting like that's a spoiler are ridiculous. The way some people act with certain elements of this show would be equivalent to denying that the force exists in the Star Wars universe or that magic exists in the world of Lord of the Rings. A lot of react channels covering BSG lately have been doing this weird denial of the show's overt themes and it's been super disappointing.
Apparently, Joe's decided he's God. 🤣
Regarding religion, don't confuse the existence of a creator with how people define them.
oh man its gettin close
I have a wild theory about the thing. but I can`t say anything yet as we need to get to the end of this show!
"But WHAT is Kara?"
🤔
[NOT a Cylon]🖖😎
Final FIVE
Created SEVEN (not Eight)
I believe Cavil would be an r/Atheism user.
bro he'd be the creator of it
Interesting little note, Boomer is the only other cylon to know the identity of Ellen as one of the final five. Presumably, even before D'Anna sees them on the algae planet and would have kept this information from the other cylons. Even her own model.
Wow she's known all this time
8213 Hoeger Terrace
Kara isn't a cylon. It feels like it's no longer a spoiler to set this straight at this point. We don't know she's a cylon, contrary to what Joe said, because we know she's not. There isn't an answer for everything. But, the show would not keep dicking around with a mystery cylon reveal with 4 episodes left.
mikey 👀
Sup 👀
Going back to Kobol would presumably involve going back through the radiation field which killed Kat in the episode passage. No? Is that a wise plan?
lol there are 2 main subjects of this show yet you most often only discuss 1 of them without taking into account the 2nd...Perhaps both can be true?
Although Mikey did bring it up here it was kept short.
Oooo I'm curious now!
@@732ReviewCrew I usually dont stay for discussions on reactions but its been really interesting but also hilarious hearing you guys thoughts!
Thank you ❤️❤️
Ellen and Boomer, jetted out of there in real time. Ellen respawned 4 months ago, but time has passed. The resurrection ship was destroyed. They are in current time.
🔔 TRC @ 16:44 ➡ THERE'S A GOOD WAY TO SET YOUR EXPECTATIONS ABOUT BSG GIVING REVELATIONS:
🔔 EXPECT NOTHING AND YOU'LL NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED, IF ANYTHING ONLY PLEASANTLY SURPRISED!
So.....does Mikey still hate ellen
Spoilers ;
After next episode, yeah.
egg
At this point, this aint a spoiler, STARBUCK IS NOT A CYLON. Quit beating that dead horse.
Not only that but it was absolutely never even implied she was a cylon. S04E10 was an intentional red herring. They may finally accept it after Kara's last scene rolls. in Episode 21/22/23.
yeah I've never seen anyone not only think it this late in the show but be completely convinced of it
@@LMarti13 I've watched a few react channels cover BSG and most of them thought this up to the very end. It's bizarre. It comes from them completely dismissing major themes of the show because it's not what they want to happen. It's super frustrating
Starbuck being the child of a cylon is a brilliant theory that I never actually considered.
What was Starbucks father's name again......
Too bad. I wanted to convince you so much that the 7 is Starbuck 😂But now it's clear who Cylon is. You will find out who or what Starbuck is in the last episode of the epic finale of this fantastic series.
They were travelling at superliminal speeds not sublight, Anders is saying that time was working differently for them and thousands of years passed during their trip from Earth to the 12 colonies, how that is possible when the fleet made the same trip in a couple years uh, I don't know...
Because they (the fleet) are using FTL _jump_ drives. They don't travel through space, they make leaps from one location to another, more or less, instantly. Rewatch from 7:08-7:18 (or 19:00 - 19:15 in the full episode). It's only a couple of lines, but Sam explains the difference between Jumpdrives (FTL) and subluminal, relativistic space travel.
Because the colonies have jump technology, Which bypasses space time, Achieving a FTL drive without actually travelling faster than light, So sidestepping relativity. The final 5 ship 's traveled through space rather than around it, And so were subject to the effects of time dilation..
Because the fleet was using FTL travel. He said relativistic speeds. That's how relativity works in all fiction. Close to but over or under the speed of light = relativity, time dilation.
what? they explicitly said they travelled at subluminal speeds because they didn't have FTL
@@LMarti13 yes and?