The 12 Days of Celtic Mythology, Season 2, Day 1 You can read an annotated translation of the original Welsh text at www.culhwch.info or listen to an excellent storyteller telling the whole thing here: ruclips.net/video/gAkiZktLyJk/видео.html If you’d like to join the live online discussions, you need to become a patron (mininimum cost $2 per month. Cancel any time). www.patreon.com/KrisHughes Information about all my classes is available at: tinyurl.com/GDclasses Today’s sources Arthur, the Historical Evidence - Encyclopedia of Celtic Culture vol. 1 - J. T. Koch (2006) pp 117-123 The Earliest Welsh Poetry - J. P. Clancy (1970) pp 87-89 archive.org/details/earliestwelshpoe0000clan/page/88/mode/2up?view=theater Arthur in Early Welsh Poetry - N. A. Jones (2019) pp 29-59, 212-219 Historia Brittonum (translation) www.arthuriana.co.uk/historicity/arthur.htm Mirabilia (translation) www.google.com/books/edition/Cambrian_Quarterly_Magazine_and_Celtic_R/3KI2AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA60&printsec=frontcover Historicity and Historicisation of Arthur - C. R. Green (1998) www.arthuriana.co.uk/historicity/arthur.htm Carn Cabal: The Mark of Arthur’s Hound clasmerdin.blogspot.com/2012/01/carn-cabal.html Culhwch and Olwen - ed. Bromwich and Evans (1992) p xxx Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru The standard historical Welsh dictionary. www.geiriadur.ac.uk/
I'm two weeks late for the discourse but enjoyed the video so felt compelled to write a response.Yes i've read "Culhwch & Olwen" before. In my late teens (i'm now 55yrs) i purchased a Penguin Classics version of "The Mabinogion" and actually was my reason for buying said book! dd i feel i understood it? Not really, certainly not at the time. At the time i was really just searching into the whole Arthur idea so hadn't really formed any of my own theories on the matter as yet. But i wasn't discouraged.
Have just listened to Robin Williamson’s rendition of Culheach and Olwyn. What an incredible telling. The difference between written and verbal transmission is astounding. Our cultural use of visual as apprised to auditory input has severely damaged our appreciation of the old myths.
I have read Cullwych and Olwyn and found it, initially, very difficult, if not boring. The spellings were also were hard to understand and pronounce. Then I started thinking about its purpose, why had they bothered to recite so many names. I realised it was a sort of aide memoire, a tool to help me rehearse the names and deeds of the heros, the better to remember each one. Once I started thinking about it in that way I began to appreciate it more. It’s still hard work at times, but it is more enjoyable.
I would think the bardes would want to name many mythical ancestors of which the nobles whom paid the bards to entertain would have claim heroic ancestry to and perhaps based their fiefdom claims to? A lineage of sorts, Just a mundane theory or a more fantastical one that the names refer to esoteric practices among the bards and ovates yes a way to help memorize the poem but also something of a mnemonic of whatever mystery teachings they practiced…ill see if it’s in my library and read it to get the gist of how the names are used… now if there was only a dolmen emoji 😂
I first read Culhwch and Olwen several years ago and skipped through the bits that seemed to distract from the main story. Over time I've gone back to it several times, sometimes re-reading particular sections, other times the whole thing. There's a lot of interesting nuggets of information within the whole tale.
Sorry I won't be joining you live for the next few days but looking forward to catching up after Christmas. Hope you all have a good Christmas whatever you are doing - I know it can be a difficult time for many.
Back in college I'd read adaptations and loved the retelling by Heather Dale. Earlier this year in one of your classes was the first time I've read it from start to finish. Definitely a text I will discover additional interesting details and connections reading it again over the years.
I haven't read Culhwch and Olwen although I've learned quite a bit of the story through previous classes and videos with you. Mainly my challenge in reading it was with pronunciations, many of which I could barely guess at.
I haven't read Culhwch and Olwen but first learned about it from your talk on Mhara Starling's Welsh Witch podcast several months ago. It seems like a hero's journey-type narrative, and I'd like to dig into a closer study of the ancient creatures questioned by Culhwch as he searches for Mabon--what does each one symbolize, etc.
I haven't read the story but I believe that Arthur Is a metaphor for the heroics of a certain mentality, one that rises above tyranny in the face of adversity and unethical things that cannot be erased from past events, that anyone and everyone can relate to regardless of which community/border line/ geological location that the story of Arthur is being told in. "If you can't beat them, join them" this could be used as a way of unity just as much as it could be used as division of people. Just my humble opinion. Peace ✌️
14:18 in Ellis version of the quest for Olwen, Mabon is rescued and brought to Arthur’s palace. Mabon is understood to be Mapon a Gaulish god of youth likened by the Romans to Apollo. There is an archaeological find, Chamalières tablet which Mapon is referenced. It is a magical text written in Gaulish. It was apparently found in a spa and one interpretation is that it may have been used to ail the aches of old men. I find it interesting they rescue the God of youth and return him to Arthur.
Now I’ve reached a scene where Mabon and Cyledyr the Wild (a man forced to eat his father’s heart) manage to seize the comb and shears from between Twrch Trwyth the magic boars ears. This to me alludes of druidic mysteries for all of this is for the hand of Olwen. I can only intuit what it may represent as psychological/magical teachings if anyone here wishes to discuss it.
One last comment having just finished the Ellis version: I believe there’s alot here referencing historical battles with various tribes and perhaps saxon invaders and other tribes passed down as heroic deeds and what made me think of this Is that Culhwch first signals to Arthur their kinship by having him cut his beard and at the end Cadw of the Picts cuts Ysbaddadans beard, as though he were some old relative of the Pictish tribes whom had settled in the region probably by conquest. So this story may be a long forgotten account of tribal battles in a sense. Or not. 😅
I've read Culhwch and Olwen before. It was the first story I read out of the Mabinogion after completing the four branches; I jumped to this story because it was said to be a very important one in the Arthurian literature. I'm sure there are certain symbols and references that were lost on me even with help from footnotes. I remember it getting a bit confusing toward in the second half as he we go through the various challenges that Ysbaddaden gave Culhwch, just felt like there was a lot going on here.
I have and I liked it. I wasn't looking for a logical narrative or expecting a story in the modern sense, which probably helped. I was just curious what / who the earliest full Arthurian story included and really enjoyed all the strange little idiosyncrasies that presumably hint at otherwise unknown early Celtic culture (such as importance of beard trimming as a social act).
Never read "Culhwch and Olwen" but I will be reading it now! This year was the first time I read the "Mabinogi" and while I tried my best to understand the history surrounding it tbh it was quite difficult and I kind of shelved it. Thanks for renewing my interest /genuine
I haven't read it before but I have heard it being told before. I can't remember who told it but I do phone number enjoying it. I can't say that I actually understood it though so I'm looking forward to your in-depth look at it.
Hi Kris, no, I haven’t read the story yet, but I will before tomorrow. I have found another version of it in ‘Celtic Myths and Legends’ by Peter B Ellis. , starting p. 371, in the Wales section of the book. I will look at your online reference too.
Ok, now I have read the Ellis version (skips all the lists of clothing, people and tasks), and listened to the Williamson (I like his musical takes). Quickly browsed the online text (all those names). Will spend more time on the online version as it is seemingly the most complete.
Ive read the Sioned Davies translation. I enjoyed it but also found it confusing and it left me with a lot of questions such as; what is with all the doubling ie Mabon and his cousin? (Im writing a book on Mabon for Pagan Portals so particularly interested in his story). And what happened to all the other tasks?
❤️🍀🙏🏻🤘🏻🦅 awesome ill try my best to answer though I only know a bit of Arthurian from bullfinch’s 😊 to answer no I have read a bit of the mabinogen and maybe have heard some reference to it in Robert Graves White Goddess but maybe not im only recently getting back to the myths.
I've never heard the story before. It sounds as confusing as any other Celtic mythology. The first is the custom of the time, especially the marriage system does not understand. Makes me dizzy with character relationships. There is a special plot for which there is no understanding, such as why the Queen went crazy in the first place, and what is the relationship between pigs? Why two-headed Briar, what's the symbolism? And for all his accessories and the animals around him, Culhwch looks like a god. All in all, a very interesting story, the first time I heard it, full of mystery.
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The 12 Days of Celtic Mythology, Season 2, Day 1
You can read an annotated translation of the original Welsh text at www.culhwch.info or listen to an excellent storyteller telling the whole thing here: ruclips.net/video/gAkiZktLyJk/видео.html
If you’d like to join the live online discussions, you need to become a patron (mininimum cost $2 per month. Cancel any time). www.patreon.com/KrisHughes
Information about all my classes is available at: tinyurl.com/GDclasses
Today’s sources
Arthur, the Historical Evidence - Encyclopedia of Celtic Culture vol. 1 - J. T. Koch (2006) pp 117-123
The Earliest Welsh Poetry - J. P. Clancy (1970) pp 87-89
archive.org/details/earliestwelshpoe0000clan/page/88/mode/2up?view=theater
Arthur in Early Welsh Poetry - N. A. Jones (2019) pp 29-59, 212-219
Historia Brittonum (translation)
www.arthuriana.co.uk/historicity/arthur.htm
Mirabilia (translation) www.google.com/books/edition/Cambrian_Quarterly_Magazine_and_Celtic_R/3KI2AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA60&printsec=frontcover
Historicity and Historicisation of Arthur - C. R. Green (1998)
www.arthuriana.co.uk/historicity/arthur.htm
Carn Cabal: The Mark of Arthur’s Hound
clasmerdin.blogspot.com/2012/01/carn-cabal.html
Culhwch and Olwen - ed. Bromwich and Evans (1992) p xxx
Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru The standard historical Welsh dictionary.
www.geiriadur.ac.uk/
Great story telling thanks.💚
I'm two weeks late for the discourse but enjoyed the video so felt compelled to write a response.Yes i've read "Culhwch & Olwen" before. In my late teens (i'm now 55yrs) i purchased a Penguin Classics version of "The Mabinogion" and actually was my reason for buying said book! dd i feel i understood it? Not really, certainly not at the time. At the time i was really just searching into the whole Arthur idea so hadn't really formed any of my own theories on the matter as yet. But i wasn't discouraged.
Have just listened to Robin Williamson’s rendition of Culheach and Olwyn. What an incredible telling. The difference between written and verbal transmission is astounding. Our cultural use of visual as apprised to auditory input has severely damaged our appreciation of the old myths.
I have never heard or read it before. You are my first teacher 😊
I have read Cullwych and Olwyn and found it, initially, very difficult, if not boring. The spellings were also were hard to understand and pronounce. Then I started thinking about its purpose, why had they bothered to recite so many names. I realised it was a sort of aide memoire, a tool to help me rehearse the names and deeds of the heros, the better to remember each one. Once I started thinking about it in that way I began to appreciate it more. It’s still hard work at times, but it is more enjoyable.
I would think the bardes would want to name many mythical ancestors of which the nobles whom paid the bards to entertain would have claim heroic ancestry to and perhaps based their fiefdom claims to? A lineage of sorts, Just a mundane theory or a more fantastical one that the names refer to esoteric practices among the bards and ovates yes a way to help memorize the poem but also something of a mnemonic of whatever mystery teachings they practiced…ill see if it’s in my library and read it to get the gist of how the names are used… now if there was only a dolmen emoji 😂
I've been wanting to read it again, I was young and didn't fully comprehend it. Cliff notes helped me through it haha
I first read Culhwch and Olwen several years ago and skipped through the bits that seemed to distract from the main story. Over time I've gone back to it several times, sometimes re-reading particular sections, other times the whole thing. There's a lot of interesting nuggets of information within the whole tale.
This is all new to me. I like the idea of Arthur and his men not being from this world, in this story. Thank you!
Thank you for mentioning the Robin Williamson recording - I have just found it and will listen to it over Christmas.
Sorry I won't be joining you live for the next few days but looking forward to catching up after Christmas. Hope you all have a good Christmas whatever you are doing - I know it can be a difficult time for many.
Back in college I'd read adaptations and loved the retelling by Heather Dale. Earlier this year in one of your classes was the first time I've read it from start to finish. Definitely a text I will discover additional interesting details and connections reading it again over the years.
I haven't read Culhwch and Olwen although I've learned quite a bit of the story through previous classes and videos with you. Mainly my challenge in reading it was with pronunciations, many of which I could barely guess at.
They are seeking to gain entry into legacy, wherefore they are all tied together forever in legend and must be named to therefore pass into.
I haven't read Culhwch and Olwen but first learned about it from your talk on Mhara Starling's Welsh Witch podcast several months ago. It seems like a hero's journey-type narrative, and I'd like to dig into a closer study of the ancient creatures questioned by Culhwch as he searches for Mabon--what does each one symbolize, etc.
I haven't read the story but I believe that Arthur Is a metaphor for the heroics of a certain mentality, one that rises above tyranny in the face of adversity and unethical things that cannot be erased from past events, that anyone and everyone can relate to regardless of which community/border line/ geological location that the story of Arthur is being told in. "If you can't beat them, join them" this could be used as a way of unity just as much as it could be used as division of people. Just my humble opinion. Peace ✌️
I have read it before I found it a bit difficult to understand at first but I did come to enjoy it especially as I started to make more sense of it.
I have read it -but got so distracted by trying to look up all the charaters mentioned in the court list I don't really recall the wholw story!
14:18 in Ellis version of the quest for Olwen, Mabon is rescued and brought to Arthur’s palace. Mabon is understood to be Mapon a Gaulish god of youth likened by the Romans to Apollo. There is an archaeological find, Chamalières tablet which Mapon is referenced. It is a magical text written in Gaulish. It was apparently found in a spa and one interpretation is that it may have been used to ail the aches of old men. I find it interesting they rescue the God of youth and return him to Arthur.
Now I’ve reached a scene where Mabon and Cyledyr the Wild (a man forced to eat his father’s heart) manage to seize the comb and shears from between Twrch Trwyth the magic boars ears. This to me alludes of druidic mysteries for all of this is for the hand of Olwen. I can only intuit what it may represent as psychological/magical teachings if anyone here wishes to discuss it.
One last comment having just finished the Ellis version: I believe there’s alot here referencing historical battles with various tribes and perhaps saxon invaders and other tribes passed down as heroic deeds and what made me think of this Is that Culhwch first signals to Arthur their kinship by having him cut his beard and at the end Cadw of the Picts cuts Ysbaddadans beard, as though he were some old relative of the Pictish tribes whom had settled in the region probably by conquest. So this story may be a long forgotten account of tribal battles in a sense. Or not. 😅
I've read Culhwch and Olwen before. It was the first story I read out of the Mabinogion after completing the four branches; I jumped to this story because it was said to be a very important one in the Arthurian literature. I'm sure there are certain symbols and references that were lost on me even with help from footnotes. I remember it getting a bit confusing toward in the second half as he we go through the various challenges that Ysbaddaden gave Culhwch, just felt like there was a lot going on here.
I have and I liked it.
I wasn't looking for a logical narrative or expecting a story in the modern sense, which probably helped. I was just curious what / who the earliest full Arthurian story included and really enjoyed all the strange little idiosyncrasies that presumably hint at otherwise unknown early Celtic culture (such as importance of beard trimming as a social act).
Never read "Culhwch and Olwen" but I will be reading it now! This year was the first time I read the "Mabinogi" and while I tried my best to understand the history surrounding it tbh it was quite difficult and I kind of shelved it. Thanks for renewing my interest /genuine
I haven't read it before but I have heard it being told before. I can't remember who told it but I do phone number enjoying it. I can't say that I actually understood it though so I'm looking forward to your in-depth look at it.
Hi Kris, no, I haven’t read the story yet, but I will before tomorrow. I have found another version of it in ‘Celtic Myths and Legends’ by Peter B Ellis. , starting p. 371, in the Wales section of the book. I will look at your online reference too.
Ok, now I have read the Ellis version (skips all the lists of clothing, people and tasks), and listened to the Williamson (I like his musical takes). Quickly browsed the online text (all those names). Will spend more time on the online version as it is seemingly the most complete.
Ive read the Sioned Davies translation. I enjoyed it but also found it confusing and it left me with a lot of questions such as; what is with all the doubling ie Mabon and his cousin? (Im writing a book on Mabon for Pagan Portals so particularly interested in his story). And what happened to all the other tasks?
❤️🍀🙏🏻🤘🏻🦅 awesome ill try my best to answer though I only know a bit of Arthurian from bullfinch’s 😊 to answer no I have read a bit of the mabinogen and maybe have heard some reference to it in Robert Graves White Goddess but maybe not im only recently getting back to the myths.
I've never heard the story before. It sounds as confusing as any other Celtic mythology.
The first is the custom of the time, especially the marriage system does not understand. Makes me dizzy with character relationships.
There is a special plot for which there is no understanding, such as why the Queen went crazy in the first place, and what is the relationship between pigs? Why two-headed Briar, what's the symbolism?
And for all his accessories and the animals around him, Culhwch looks like a god.
All in all, a very interesting story, the first time I heard it, full of mystery.
I am pretty sure that I read it, but found it very rough going. It did not engaging me (plus, Welsh phonetics throws me completely).