Colonizing Ganymede
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- Опубликовано: 29 май 2024
- Ganymede is an enormous moon, larger than any other we’ve found, including our own, and may one day be the centerpiece of wider human settlements around Jupiter.
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Colonizing Ganymede
Episode 449; May 30, 2024
Written, Produced & Narrated by: Isaac Arthur
Graphics:
Jeremy Jozwik
Kristijan Tavcar
Rapid Thrash
Sergio Botero
YD Visual
Music Courtesy of
Epidemic Sound Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.com/creator
Stellardrone, "Ultra Deep Field", "Red Giant", "Billions and Billions", "Cosmic Sunrise"
Lombus, "Hydrogen Sonata", "Cosmic Soup" 
Наука
Author's note: at 13:30 we've got an 'oops'. On-screen it shows Helium-3, but with one proton and 2 neutrons on the image, that would be hydrogen-3 or Tritium, He-3 would be two protons and a neutron. I'm gonna blame that one on being busy getting ready for the ISDC, though the slide is from an older episode so that's more of 'failed to catch the error again' :)
REALLY HATE your use of A.I. “art” in your header it’s absolutely 2000% garbage on fire.
Can you NOT use real human artwork instead?
ARTISTS AGAINST A.I.
@@donhillsmanii5906 this is a channel about futurism and the future of humanity... I think the AI art fits perfectly and makes perfect sense next to the human art
@@donhillsmanii5906 The slides are just eye candy anyway, aside from a few important charts or graphs. If you are not ADD-riddled like me, you can always just do something else while listening to Isaac.
When I read "author's note", in my mind I was reading it with voice, but because it was in your voice my brain interpreted it as Arthur's note even though I read author's note
@@fubaralakbar6800 the worst is I KNOW it's stock footage. and the SAME stock footage over and over, but I just sit and watch and listen to Isaac lol.
"All these worlds are yours. Except Europa. Attempt no landings there."
Alright; Ganymede it is.
I've always wondered why They said that. They must have known that perverse humans would immediately be drawn to Europa out of curiosity.
Nice reference.
I'm afraid I can't do that caejones2792.
Great example is the Expanse. Huge agricultural domes powered by orbital mirrors, and underground living facilities. In that universe, its the safest place to birth and raise children off-earth, though still not better than earth!
Taken to it's logical conclusion, orbitals would be overall safer and healthier than any moon or planet, including earth.
Just need a ton of orbital industry to get it going (note I didn't say tech, because most of the tech we'd absolutely need we already have, just not the engineering yet)
@@RiversJ I agree, as in particular the gravity of Earth is something one cannot as easily simulate on Ganymede as on a rotating habitat.
Just look out for the Caliban!
@@SuperibyPRotating habitat with the floor at an angle, mounted on the surface.
@@RiversJ What weird definition of 'technology' includes purely theoretical constructs?
Drinking Ganymead on Ganymede
I prefer Brawndo thanks.
Lol, I read this as "drinking grannies mead on Ganymede"
Amusing story, my best friend decided he wanted to try his hand at making mead so swung by to get some honey (my wife keeps bees) , 'Ganymead' was one of the names we kicked around for the label.
I'm drinking rolling rock on the Rollin' rocker
Oh yes! The thirst mutilator! It's got what plants crave, because it's got electrolytes!
I'd go with Callisto just because it's farther from the radiation belt.
The crust is also a lot more mineral rich, with a higher fraction of rocky material than Ganymede
Love Callisto, it's my favorite moon, so much so I named a cat after it! ❤
Bro, I read it as "I would go out with Callisto, because her father works for ratiation belt".
I'm like... is he making his own nuclear powerplant, or is he popping WW3.
@@janchovanec8624 Nah. Callisto's not my type. I wanna go out with Venus, she's a lot hotter!😀
Callisto is where it’s at for me.
For us old timer nukes, that 0.08 Sieverts figure for radiation on the surface of Ganymede is equivalent to 8 Rem per day. While not lethal short term, that's a pretty strong dose. For comparison, after working in nuclear for decades I've only had a total recorded cumulative dose of maybe half that. I could get my lifetime occupational dose on the surface of Ganymede in half a day probably. It won't kill you but do that enough times and you likely have cancer in your future. Heavily shielded or underground habs would be a must for colonization.
NASA's limit is 600 mSv per lifetime, or 7.5 days on the surface of Ganymede. So, yes, you are exactly correct.
Cool. This reminds me of an old short story "Christmas on Ganymede". In that story Ganymede had an indigenous population that funnily enough was described as "they can speak English but when they do that you wish that the couldn't". Yes the story was meant as comedy.
I just checked on Wikipedia. Apparently written by Isaac Asimov. The article says written 1940 and published 1942.
yep, there's a nice audio version of it by Jim Roberts too
I was thinking totally sounds like an Asmov story.
I love the use of mirrors to avoid lethal radiation. They could be used for Mars exploration and beyond.
I might be wrong because I read it very long time ago, but I think in the Mars Trilogy there was mentioned a similar concept of a habitat, but it was an underground one, and it had one side dug out to let light in through mirrors.
I wonder why Callisto wouldn't be picked instead, as a "crown jewel" of Jupiter. Also rich in water and various resources, far enough from Jupiter that radiation is even lower (even taking Ganymede's magnetic field into account), and its outer orbit might be a bit easier for ship transit purposes. While also making a good base to exploit the rest of Jupiter from.
It probably would be picked first in reality.
Callisto is my pick, favorite moon for sure! 😊
I have sort of a soft spot for Ganymede. Ever since an obscure scifi story from the early 80s mentioned Ganymede as being colonized by my ethnic group. I was so happy! We made it! We have a world to ourselves! Someone recognized us as worthy of that! It's an irradiated rock 2.4 times smaller than the Earth, but I'm not asking for much! Just enough space to build our dome cities or arcologies and grow our numbers!
Come to Ganymede and stay awhile! The restaurant and bakeries are awesome!😋
What is the obscure sci fi story from the 80s where Ganymede is colonized by an ethnic group?
I must be trying all the wrong searches because I can’t find it… but my search did remind me to read Ken MacLeod’s series.
@@corbynite2004shot in the dark but maybe “The Ganymede Takeover” by Phillip K. Dick and Ray Nelson??
@@corbynite2004shot in the dark but maybe “The Ganymede Takeover” by Phillip K. Dick and Ray Nelson ??
Cool. And I got absolutely no idea what ethnicity that is.
Belters?
Best way to colonize Ganymede is to crunch it up and turn it into O’Neil cylinders. Yum.
Honestly, since getting a decent idea on how much more efficient habitats are versus planetary colonization, I have lost a lot of interest in the specifics of colonizing specific planets or moons. Other than geology research and the like I don't think we would ever bother colonizing instead of building habitat stations of whatever configuration we decide is most practical.
@@puresowns215 I tend to feel the same way… maybe each of these moons will have max 10,000 people living on them at any one time to get the extraction systems set up and then back to space they go to live in comfort and assemble more habitats. And thinking about how those 10,000 people would live while they work isn’t that interesting to me… I tend to go straight to ‘why can’t they just manage the robots from a comfortable habitat in orbit instead of going down to the surface?’ … Maybe they wouldn’t be extraction colonies but temporary tourist/geologist/historian outposts erected while the moon is still standing.
Do that and I demand that the name is kept. So it will be something like "Ganymede station". At least for the first one if there is enough material for several O'Neil cylinders.
@@michaelpettersson4919 Ganymede should provide enough material for several hundred thousand O’Neil cylinders… but likely the material from Ganymede would be combined with material taken from other moons and even gas giants of the Sol system to make the maximum amount of optimally configured O’Neil Cylinders… doubtless thousands would have names derived from Ganymede in some way.
Agreed, but timeframe matters. The machinery and mining needed to recycle something this size into a few million (or billion) habitats is probably on the order of eons. There’s going to be a colony on the surface in there somewhere.
If you put a conducting coil around Ganymede even at the poles for smaller equipment requirements Jupiter will induce enormous amounts of power in it. The other moons could be used as well and the power transmitted as laser light about the jovian system.
Ganymede seems like a good place to set up some agricultural domes. I'm sure nothing bad could happen.
Heinlein's Farmer in the Sky and Benford's Against Infinity are my favorite novels set on Ganymede. I haven't read Poul Anderson's Snows of Ganymede but I'd like to.
From Ganymede to Titan, yes sir I've been around 🎵
Love your colonizing episodes. Love your world builder approach. I love a good story. I never get tired of listening one.
Thanks!
Farmer in the sky... But on Callisto, where the surface dose is lower, there's plenty of easily accessible ore bodies in the craters, etc.
Pleased to ganymeet you!
Hahaha! Come for the Arthur, stay for the puns.
This comment wins🎉🎉🎉
And Uranus too.
That's terrible I wish I thought of it first ❤
Come to the airlock for a moment please.
In the novel 3001...Ganymede was colonized. Great book.
The definition of "colonised" seem to be... The term seem to vary with the person using it. Our host Isaac Arthur here do not seem to have any compulsion against colonising the Sun...
@@michaelpettersson4919 Indeed, Indeed. Isaac Arthur is the Mad Hatter of space colonization.
Very good book, first I read by Clarke too, though I'd already seen 2001, had to backtrack to read the toher sequels after. Funny coincidence, I was doing a panel with Larry Niven sunday morning an 3001 came up, though more on the space elevator discussion
This is a true story. Way back in high school one day we all gathered together on campus near a tree and decided to make Maddie, our strange classmate, that we were far in the future and living on Ganymede having sparked fusion on Jupiter and migrated humanity out there. We were celebrating our 50 year class reunion, that's how we all came to be together in a perfect replica of our old high school back on Earth. Maddie fell for it and was disoriented the whole rest of the day being completely unable to remember his class schedule. Sometimes Maddie ingested certain molecules that he, and anyone, probably shouldn't.
Bear in mind that the aforementioned 50 year class reunion will be next year and we knew very little about Ganymede since the Voyager spacecraft had not yet arrived at the Jupiter system, and would not for several more years. Yes, I'm pretty old by now but avoided ingesting dangerous molecules for the most part and still have a functional brain. Mostly.
Well… that seems… really fucking mean. In fact, forget the “seems”.
Excellent video and some nice bonus world-building.
Good work, Isaac.
i think low gravity is very unhealthy for us - we need cylinders. it would make a good mining source but not long term living.
We dont know tge gravity threshold needed but suspect ur right
@@SeanSoraghan true but zero g severely reduces bone density and causes other problems. so 14%g is probably not enough long term.
We don't know yet if low gravity would result in the same adverse health effects as microgravity or not.
Would be interesting to discuss colonizing Callisto for comparison, as it has slightly lower size and gravity but is less irradiated thanks to being completely outside of Jupiter's radiation belt, while Ganymede is not, and as mentioned here has lower escape velocity.
Ganymede is the true test for whether or not humanity can reach for the stars. If we can make it there, then we can make it on a lot of different worlds.
I just hope when we do, that a giant orbital space battle between earth and mars ravages the local lunar community for months leading to a massive refugee crisis to the edge of the solar system.
Oh my god! And then what would happen? Would some strange alien substance then infect an entire asteroid colony? Would that asteroid then fly itself into Venus? Would that asteroid then fly to the edge of the solar system and create a giant ring structure?
I hope that doesn’t happen.
So long as we avoid awakening the shadow vessel
Ganymede is my favorite [place] in our solar system. I had a fundraiser to raise the 87 million trillion dollars to terraform it. We are only 87 million trillion dollars from reaching our goal.
That's why this is my favorite non-megastructure related episode. Thank you very much.
I don't know. Considering how expensive it is to terraform Jupiter's moons, an Io-you may be in order.
I have simple route's of entertainment, i see Isaac Arthur+ colonising and I click like before the video has started.
When i think about the galilean moons, i think about ship building yards for some reason.
Jupiters moons, Callisto and all the ones further out, are going to be a massive empire one day. I can see Ganymede, Europa and Io being used for resources and production….i just think they’ll be more automated due to all the radiation. I mean, up until there are underground Silo style compounds reaching down into the sun surface oceans……
Man, someone make a KSP style colony game with real physics and all the known Jovian moons with a accurate radiation belt already lol
Thank you so much for another Jupiter system colony episode!!!!!
I wanna make that kind of game but I ain’t got the skills. But hey, check again in 10 years and maybe that dream won’t be so distant.
Also I think they’d mainly be mined for volatiles. I could be way off but I think the smaller moons are where the rocks and minerals are at. Though of course, it could be worthwhile to mine the seafloor of Europa…
Happy #Arthursday!!!!
The first book I ever read in English was Farmer in the Sky, so Ganymede has always had a special place in my imagination
Another great episode. I've always loved when you put the theoretical into a real human story. I feel like I'm there.
Loved the video. You always do a excellent job
Ganymede is probably the only moon we could feasibly classically terraform, as it is the only one with a magnetic field.
Really fun, and lovely scenario at the end. Thank you.
I support colonising Ganymede.
I love your content and it's often played while I work on stuff. Your voice reminds me of an old friend.
Been hoping for an episode on Ganymede!
Your videos are the highlight of my week.
Callisto is my favorite moon, it would be fascinating to see your take as well on that one! I say we colonize all of the four major moons of Jupiter! ❤🚀 🌝
Callisto would be better. Specialized RTG craft could assist in diverting other carefully selected small moons around Jupiter to add to the mass of Calisto, as there's lots to choose from. Mass drivers on other moons could send select materials to Callisto. More mass, more ability to hold an atmosphere, protect from radiation and protect from micro meteorites, and make it easier for human and other organism health.
Maybe you can do all 4 in this series. For example, Io would be fun but has a heavy potential for resources that could be utilized despite the extreme volcanism, which could be more tamed and used as power, like how cryovolcanoes could be used for power.
Plays Cowboy BeBop Theme song in background
Man, Callisto is beautiful.
We would definitely need some type of artificial gravity. It would probably will just end up being a mining operation for water ice .
I have heard that Callisto is the best option for colony in Jupiter's moons
The eventual fate of Gamymede is probably the same as the rest of the rocky bodies in the solar system (aside from Earth): recycled into habitats. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, however, if the central hub for the mining stations were converted into a large metropolis that bore the same name, one that survived into the “habitat only” phase of our solar system.
So as it happens, the length of a Martian sol and a Ganymedean "day" are almost identical: 24 hours, 39.6 minutes versus 24 hours, 31.8 minutes. Perhaps the first permanent colonists on Ganymede will be from Mars, not Earth.
If you'd like to build some interstellar highway networks from Lunar to Ganymede to save time for next Jupiter meeting, why not?
But before you launch Ganymede settlements establishment, preparing to meet your new galactic neighbors at their bases and spaceports on the Ganymede.
Good luck bro, Sol system development projects will bringing surprises in this century.
This channel is still inexplicably under subscribed.
That is true of a number of very good channels, in science and various other genres.
Might I recommend, in no particular order:
The Click
Jammidodger
DUST
Rebecca Watson
Beau of the Fifth Column
Storied
Randy Rainbow
The Launch Pad
Old Gods of Appalachia
Anton Petrov
The Professional Left
His speech impediment will hold him back
@@Raine247 It hardly seems to.
@@Raine247it didn’t six years ago, and it’s significantly better now. Now new people just think he has an odd accent.
Did I just watch Isaac Arthur shaving? That's great!
NOTIFICATION GANG!!
Push
Because of what that comet chasing probe found with the airogell wings, the moons will have organic material to use.
One thing to note about electrical current, amperage has a much greater effect than voltage when it comes to lethality.
Very cool episode thanks 🙃
How beefy do the domes need to be to survive meteorites and asteroidites since there is no atmosphere to burn up them up? What is the current strike frequency on moons around Jupiter?
Revolutionary Concepts for Human Outer Planet Exploration (HOPE) from 2003 went on and posited a crewed mission somewhere after 2045.
Good stuff as usual.
A video about nuclear pulse propulsion would be cool!
My favorite Moon ❤
With hardly any atmosphere, it should be easy enough to beam captured sunlight from a ganymede orbit to the surface.
16:07 gives me "Aww sheeeit... Here we go again." vibes 😂
It should be pointed out that ice is very easy to tunnel through compared to rock, so there's hardly even any reason to make domes for habitat out of glass. You can just dig down.
I think a hybrid photo+betavoltaics could significantly raise the efficiency of power sources, especially krypton-85 is something that would be interesting to study more.
Any elemental accounting associated with colonization to me seems a little insufficient without a discussion on phosphate.
I'm Ganymede a drink, snack and a doobie for this one
Gregory Benford wrote ''Against Infinity'' about humanity's attempts to colonize Ganymede. However an ancient alien (robotic) entity, the Aleph, tries to counter this...
I have this head cannon where the asteroid belt bleeds into the Trojans and the outer jovians and it's all chaos, like the Wild West, the Cossack East or the pirate century in the West Indies
Canon* 😉
I kinda wonder what sort of damage Terra-forming our moon might have on planet Earth. I would think the differences of Sunlight due to the atmosphere of the moon might come into play in some way. A lot of biology is wired for moonlight. What happens if we toyed with that?
WOAH! careful there bucko. The great engine of progress steams forever forward! SCIENCE IS AWESOME... HUZZAH!!!
Lava-tube Wives will be a big reality TV hit in the future Sol System! ***1/2
It's funny to think that we have no idea at this point whether lava tubes will be the choicest high-end real estate, or the equivalent of trailer parks.
The Real House Wives Of Ganymede
@@arcadiaberger9204The main factor is their proximity to the ice. But who knows, they might have ice in them…. They _have_ been shadowed for billions of years after all…
@@oberonpanopticon Well, we'll have the ice and anything else with industrial value out of them before we begin using them for habitation, won't we?
If bigger is better for Fusion, we always still have Fission for small homesteads and facilities. Fission reactors can get extremely small, and if the photos from russian nuclear subs in the 90s are accurate, we already have traditional fission reactors that could fit in the back of a van. The Fallout-universe concept of having a fission reactor under the hood of your car might be closer than we think. We probably don't want to use them for terrestrial cars, but on the surface of an airless moon where you already have to radiation proof everything, well it might be fine then to run your rover on a under-the-hood fission reactor.
Yhm, let'se see, yes yes, another great Isaac Arthur content.
We would just need to figure out the evolution of human genetics in low gravity situations. But by the 24th century, I'm sure we'd be there.
I’ve been waiting weeks for this video’😁😁
I think Callisto would be the crown jewel of the Jovian System.
One question though. What would be the incentive for choosing Ganymede over Callisto?
Whatever advantages Ganymede has, e.g., abundance of water ice, even subsurface ocean, are present also on Callisto.
However, Callisto has several advantages, such as lower ambient radiation, stable geology (Ganymede may have plate tectonics ) and being not as deep inside Jupiter's gravity well as Ganymede.
As for mining Jupiter or IO, such works will be done by robots anyway. A little outpost would do. Makes no sense to build a vast colony in a hostile environment just for that.
If the goal is to biologically colonize the Jovian system, I don't see much reason for choosing Ganymede over Callisto.
great!
Callisto is the safer option, much less radiation.
If there is a discussion about floating platforms in the Venus atmosphere, why can the same concept not be used in Jupiter and Saturn?
I think robots will be used to find all resources needed before the crew arriving.
ThankQ Issac Another Imagination Teasing Episode 😋
Hey Isaac Arthur, because of your space interests and covering all kinds of space related topics, I'd recommend to you checking out both Talk pages that are respectively associated to the Fermi Paradox and the space colonization Wikipedia pages, and in the latter case the very bottom part.
Will solar panels get enough sunlight to supply electricity for the colonist? Agriculture will have to be conducted underground because of the cold temperatures.
I doubt it’s all that much warmer underground
@@oberonpanopticon it depends on far down colorists are able to drill down to hit warm areas.
Interestingly in Babylon 5 the earthgov was trying to liberate a shadow vessel from the surface of Ganymede and of course when the thing went crazy it destroyed the surface domes. Thank goodness Sheridan already there waiting for it
Just going to point out, "dirty ice" is half the problem with assuming everything out there is pure.......
Callisto first, same resources, less radiation
Yes
Moons of exo planet gas giants sounds the key phrase, as solves tidal locked main planets at red dwarf stars
Colonizing Triton next please Isaac.
Hmm... possibly, Id have to think what make Triton uniquely interesting though
@@isaacarthurSFIA I tend to think of Titan as especially suitable for mechanic lifeforms (maybe mechanisms instead of organisms) due to its coldness, aridity, and abundance of methane. I'm p sure I got the idea from you, but either way you can expound on it.
Maybe a group of isolationist mechanisms claim Titan as their homeworld, potentially focused more on miniaturization and virtual existence. Though ofc it could also become the origin of a militarist mechanic nation or singularity.
@@joelcamilo5436 Dude said Triton, which is Neptune's biggest, rather than Titan, Saturn's big boy. I'm inclined to think Titan is the more interesting of the two.
Heinlein wrote about this - "Farmer in the Sky"
Most technologically sophisticated people today would be vastly disappointed in humanity if by 2156, autonomous robots were not way superior to humans now in doing any tasks in space, and autonomous robots could be made in much more varied form factors and with different intrinsic capabilities. For that matter, there are many today who believe that a crash program could achieve such robots by 2056, a hundred years earlier. I just can't be sold on how biology is an advantage in space.
Great show! very informative as always.🛰
Glad you enjoyed it
I recently read that some ETs grom another system landd on Gamymede and when the Space Force learned of it they wemt there to welcome these new arrivals. I haven't received any confirmation but I hope it's true.
Won't light pressure drive the orbiting mirrors away from a useful locations. Especially, goven they've been proposed as means of propulsion i. e. Solar sails.
I discussed that in the Staties and lagites episode, what ends up happening in short form though is you adjust them to a non-keplerian orbit, and for lagrange points, you usually just put the shade a bit closer to the Sun than L1, and the mirror even closer.
Radiation is intense, shielding humans makes problematic for humans to even land there.
I have done a lot, I mean, a lot of thinking about all this. I imagine, that until we colonize Venus we will instead live in rotating space habitats and use the Moon as a refining center and ship production facility, but live in space. Similarly, Mars we will end up abandoning as a living center and instead mine it and live in space. Venus is the only planet capable of maintaining humans as we exist right now, all other planets or moons will wait until we are uploading ourselves into robots.
thanks
17:10 is basically a survival game called Space Engineers
Heinlein's " Farmer In The Sky" was set on Ganymede....I think...