Yeah, it's all fun and games until we find out there is an underground civilization on Mercury that might take exception to us dismantling their planet.
@@Pimpmedown I'm glad they brought the wheel and engineering in general, and the horse, none of which existed in North America before they arrived. Edit: Stop bringing up the "smallpox blankets" conspiracy theory folks, it has been debunked for a VERY long time. It happened in the 1600s, and we didn't discover Germ Theory until 1861, so shut up about it.
A few decades ago, Marshall T. Savage wrote a book called "The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Universe in Eight Easy Steps." One theme was that every step had to make lots of money in order to pay for the next step. And by 'lots,' we're talking tens of billions of dollars a year from the first few colonies so that the next stage could begin almost immediately. (Because of the distribution and relative energy cost of materials, to build colonies on the moon it's much cheaper to import volatiles from the asteroid belt than from Earth. This has the practical result that by the time large Lunar colonies are developed, there will be small permanent asteroid colonies, ready to grow into large ones.)
I've actually got that book! [Although I hear it's been updated for 2021. It's now called "The Millennial Project: Colonizing Social Media in Eight Easy Steps," but that's a different story...]
In t message boards for the LUF I argued that NEA mining was the logical first step. I still maintain that if ever the question comes up of how to make it "pay off" or how to pay for it long term, NEA metals are the only option. Yes, we hear that if you bring in aeroentry barges of asteroid metals, you're going to drop the value of what you're bringing and ruin your own business. Yes, but for that moment, you own more "wealth" than all the mercantile interests or old-money empires or nation -states in history, combined.
nice. gotta love to see people loving the same series as oneself. Was it your first time watching it? I watched it my thrid time about 3 or 4 weeks ago. LOVE IT.
If the other factions are preventing you from disassembling things to build a Dyson swarm, why not try it in a neighbouring star system? Could be another motivation for interstellar colonisation.
build o'neill probes to build multiple dyson swarms in multiple systems as well as habitats and armadas guarding your claims waiting for your command. Becomes problematic when everyone does it but also forces you to do so as well if you aren't already since at some point all near stars even the red dwarfs will be taken and the investment needed to steo into the game as a sovereign power will get much higher. Could definitly see that happening.
So go all the way to another solar system (a challenge in itself that will take years to hundreds of years to thousands of years), disassemble a planet in another solar system, and then bring the materials back here? Nah, disassemble Mercury, the asteroid belt, etc.
Idea for a sci-fi setting, which I've been considering as a backstory for a boardgame: -Earth is still the largest human population centre. -Reliable lightspeed communication means realtime global communication *BUT* non-realtime communication between worlds. -The nations of Earth remain independent of one another, and are frequently at odds. -Various colony worlds have had their multinational collection of colonies merge into global governments across the planet (or moon). -These global nations have more freedom to act without realtime intervention from neighbours like Earth nations have to worry about. -Even though they're not technically as "powerful" in raw resources and manpower, Earth's internal political strife makes it less of a powerhouse than its colony worlds in practical terms.
Historically, the two general categories (those going to create profit and those who consider expansion a good in itself) tend to go together. Those who think a given colony can generate wealth but who have no particular desire to go themselves would bankroll expeditions mostly composed of those who just wanted to go anyway. (On Earth, this has led to some odd residuals. One of the nicknames for the people of North Carolina is 'Tar Heels,' because one of the first settlements in what became North Carolina was established to produce tar for the Royal Navy as a profit-making venture. Some other commercial settlements were created to trade for furs, or to grow tobacco for the rapidly expanding tobacco trade in Europe, and so forth. The Spanish seizing territory to take huge quantities of gold and silver turned out to be such a bad idea that even now, centuries later, Spain still has residual economic problems from the inflation those imports caused.) Based on this history, it seems likely that there will be many colonies funded as investments but actually settled by people who mostly want to settle in new places as wither ultimately better economically for themselves and their descendants or because they see settling new places and building them up as good in itself.
@@Azamat421 Too bad you couldn't be bothered to watch the video before blathering, as this video is about colonizing the Solar system. You know, the one we're almost in the middle of.
@@Azamat421 Mars isn't a great place to colonize, at least until you've built of infrastructure in orbit a god deal. It's easier to build O'Neil Cylinders in orbit of Mars and establish a good and uninterruptible supply of energy from power satellites before you try to establish colonies on the surface.
As much as I would love to see swarms and swarms of habitats. My heart and sentiment is definitely towards terraforming Mars and Venus.... if only because those are the two planets that inspired us in our infancy to contemplate leaving our cradle. All these worlds are yours to dismantle save for these three. Attempt no factory probes here.
Why? So that maybe in a few thousand years, a few moodier farmers can till the soul? So that a few more tourists can walk naked under a sky? That only gives us maybe x2 the land area of the Earth's land surface area. In just the inner Solar system small bodies, there are materials to build for hundreds of times the Earth's carrying capacity, in better conditions than on any planet, including better than much of the Earth. In the main Belt, thousands of times, and the "habitable zone" around the Sun goes out into the Oort cloud beyond.
The Moon, because the ONLY person I want to see get stuck 7 months at best, 2 YEARS at worst away from help rather than 3 to 4 DAYS... is Elon himself.
Hey Isaac you probably won't see this message but I just want to say I love your voice I listen to it every night for the past 5 years it helps me go to sleep
You want to grab some of those craters with regions that receive no sunlight that way you can run your photovoltaics on the rim and use the dark centers for less radiated habs, cooling, astronomy, ect.
I feel like there is an overemphasis of colonizing Mars because “Mars has lava tubes so we could totally use them.” My rebuttal is that we have lava tubes on our moon: a mere three days’ journey away. That is so close that of there was a problem we could potentially intervene or even evacuate
- I've made a study of utopias: Most fail when the volunteers turn out to be merely human. Even those with loyal volunteers fail when they are not economically viable. So space colonization depends on plausible economic rationales for its funding. However, in a post-scarcity economy, economic hurdles will be easily surmounted by marketing campaigns and wanderlust. - To get a fell for this, just compare NASA's budget to what people spend on various forms of entertainment. I predict that heroes with wanderlust will volunteer to becoming the fish in the fishbowl of something like a reality show. Currently, millionaires who can afford to rent super-yachts can also afford a vacation aboard a low-gravity space station. - The needed technologies already exist but will need some boots-on-the-ground testing. I expect that will be funded as a form of international competitions politically supported by tribal psychology. The resulting outposts won't really be colonies. They will be more like military bases.
Maybe strip mining will be a blessing in disguise for Pluto with its potential to clear the neighboring region of other objects thus revoke Pluto's status as a dwarf planet. We can make Pluto great again one strip at a time!
Well it initially traveled to a time that predates the war, and introducing such a virus would probably prevent the creation of skynet. Skynet probably also wouldn't have a very easy time destroying humanity with a virus after the nuclear strike since the spread of the virus would be much slower due to the lower populations and rates of travel.
When it comes to enforcing claims of ownership, all philosophical discussion takes a step back in the face of that which deals with authority, which is very simple philosophy. The root of all authority is the ability and willingness to inflict more deadly force than whatever entity disagrees with you. This principle can be obscured by abstractions like outsourcing the the necessary ability and willingness to a selected group like police or military, but this transfer does not alter the thing. As such, whoever can build a base on any celestial object and is capable and willing to strike down any craft in route to it without being destroyed themselves, owns that object by naked fact.
@@kleinjahr Indeed, but also think upon the axiom "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". Suppose a colony claims some moon of Jupiter as exclusively their own, and Earth opposes the act. The moon colonist do not necessarily need to be able to completely destroy the Earth to win that disagreement. They just have to make sure that the amount of violence needed to nullify their claim is beyond the amount that Earth is willing to commit to. Hence "ability _and_ willingness". And so it is immensely important to know your enemy and if possible, to be close enough to them to influence their opinions, because thereby you can win against a force which is arbitrarily larger than your own.
thats tough. but i also dont recommend that. I watch isaac from the time he had less than 10k subs so i know. There isnt ANY pathway to watch his videos. Just scroll through it everytime you feel like having some scifi. BUT start at the oldest ones and scroll up. That will be much more fun.
this made me want a sci-fi with a war between dissasemblers that see the destruction of earth as a small price to pay for the amount of humans that could live in the habitats made from the earths resources, and conservationists that want to see the earth preserved
I am if the mind that .... If humanity waits until space exploration and colonization is more reasonable (aka more affordable and risk-free), it may to too late by them to save humanity from the eventual, extinction event that is stalking us as we speak., And waiting to happen. The pioneers who learned if the existence of the Americas, where not expecting to find this continent here. But once that did, they saw opportunity to gain wealth and a chance at immortality in the annuls of history. But those reward came with mortal risks....and many paid that price. But many their names are now eternal.
This one was pretty good, and I think the philosophical dispute about how best to colonize the Solar System will undoubtedly rear its head, as time goes on. We've gotta figure out how to get people out there, though, in large enough numbers to get past the "early adopter" gap and into "general acceptance." That's gonna be the hard bit.
SF writers love to describe space settlements eagerly cutting ties with Earth, but Isaac proposes that a settlement might shop around for an Earth nation to seek a relationship with. There is an historical precedent: while the U.S. and most other newly-independent colonies in the New World became republics, some took a different route, inviting a member of a European royal family to become their King or Grand Duke.
11:30 @Isaac Arthur Total Respect, balancing on that razor edge. 1 Sci-Fi imbued Arty to another: could we get a "Non-lethal / Less-than-lethal to supersede firearms" episode? Factoid which might also dominate your thinking: forget to carry the one w/your azimuth charting, while the verification computer is down, could miss the alleged enemy only to slaughter a village...! What of Star Trek's panoply could turn into something real? Phasors set only to STUN ! ! !
I’ve often wished mankind had rather more extensively developed deep subterranean and undersea civilization and infrastructure. Such diversity on this rock down here would seem to lessen vulnerability to local environmental flux, as well as potentially prove materials and technologies adaptable to other rocks (or rings) out there.
we mostly don't do it because it's insanely expensive. especially subterranean construction though deep ocean has it's own unique challenges. if protection from the environment is your only reason it doesn't really make any sense since traditional surface or near-surface construction can get you similar protection from anything short of direct asteroid impacts, nuclear strikes, or volcanic eruptions which are all rare enough to make it not worth the cost or effort. though with advanced robotic automation & cheap energy it does get a whole lot easier
Can you please do a video about how we can send sequestered CO2 off Earth in the form of fertilizer, fuel, and building materials. This would advance both the space industry and ecological restoration of Earth as well as attract the investment of both interest groups. So much money is being directed to Direct Air Capture technology which is almost purely cost with the only benefit being the carbon removal. Biochar is a porous soil amendment that can be saturated in liquid fertilizer to make a powerful fertilizer. Methane rocket fuel can be synthesized from the air or from anaerobic digesters, which can also pair with biochar production. Biogas can also be blended with hydrogen in existing natural gas power plants. This can be a part of the solution to clean energy as well as transfer to a part of a circular economy for a space colony. The main issue is amount of carbon mass we need to offworld without emmiting more CO2 in the process. You're videos are amazing and I have been obsessing over this idea for a while now. A moon base would be the obvious refueling and agricultural center to then move to Mars and onwards. How do you think the numbers break down? How long would it take to offworld enough sequestered CO2 to make a difference to slow down global warming? 🤔
I really think O'Neill cylinders are the future. Beyond it being an inspiring goal that captures the imagination, I can't understand Elon Musk's fixation on Mars. I really think he's just using it as a proof of concept. What we really need is industry in space. Start with a moon base, then build in orbit or at Lagrange points, and then start building O'Neill cylinders. Tons of living room, no issues from microgravity, but also easy to travel from one to another, and moveable in case of a threat. They are kind of tough to beat, IMO.
For the moon's south pole. It might be an idea to send some RTG Rovers that can shave down some hills there. Leaving the best light bearing hills exposed for more light for solar panels. The regolith from these tops could be used to smoothing out surface areas for landing pad areas, roads, and to make berms at lower areas.
Wow, near term Sol system development projects are coming. ... interplanetary bases, space highway transportation system, spaceports/stations, Moon and extroplanets terraforming process, settlement selections, interstellar supply chains, interstellar trade centers, interstellar agricultural and manufacturing chains, interstellar mines and metal management, deep space negotiations, galactic diplomatic and economic projects, etc.
I watch these more for the visuals than anything else. One thing I know for sure though, is we are heading into some of the most exciting times in history
Recently stumbled across your channel and love it! Ya know, I've always wondered what we would do if an alien race just showed up and moved into our solar system, completely ignoring us, and just start colonizing everything else out there, possibly terraforming Mars and Venus. And all we could do is watch as what we always considered our solar system becomes theirs.
Just watched a great yourtube video called grabby aliens. Anyone else see it what do you guys think? Could it be we see no aliens because we are early?? What's your view Isaac?
Doesn't space travel look like Age of Sail though. Expeditions were either funded by government institutions (Spain, Portugal, Dutch), joint stock companies (the early English colonies in America) or a collusion between private sector and government Royal Expedition Society and East India Company. The small religious groups were either working with governments, like the Catholic church, or were groups the coordinated internally to volunteer but were funded by businesses to do the actual venture like with the Puritans.
Colonizing the solar system requires balance, time and generations. Maximize the benefit of taking on the challenge and you will be rewarded. Chaotic expanse is just that, chaos!
I wonder how fast interstellar travel will come after interplanetary colonization. It probably will happen right after we learn to build sustainable space habitats and able to produce everything in space, which probably will be around the time we manage to self sustaining colonies. Also around that time tension between Earth and the colonies will be the highest because they can finally be able to be independent. This might lead to people leaving the solar system.
Another reason why the first couple of trips somewhere are more expensive: Since nobody has been there for any significant period of time, the sources of good materials (like mineral wealth) haven't been discovered yet. Several of the first few settlements in North America intended to cut down trees to be used as ship masts. England had been cutting down trees for centuries and there wasn't a lot of good timber left. But a few days of sailing up and down the east coast will reveal thousands of acres of rich timberland. Minerals like gold, silver, iron, and coal are tougher to find if not impossible to find without digging. The first few settlements would have a better chance of finding good spots where the next wave was more like 'settle for what's left.'
My own pet strategy, easier and more adaptable than the moon or mars, and needing no speculative business model, is to combine: (a) The *Luna Gateway* a successor to the ISS in high lunar orbit (b) The *Asteroid Redirect Mission* where multiple robotic tugs collect and return samples from diverse asteroid type. You just keep running this project with some constant fraction of NASA funding, mastering self sufficiency and ISRU. What we can achieve with that budget can expand to infinity as we master those skills. It would certainly be nice if we master some business model that justifies more investment from earth but it is not necessary. In space workers will create in space industries to serve themselves. The initial ISRU goal would be the simplest, just using asteroid material for shielding mass. Next would be volatile extraction for lifesupport and fuel. Then would be more complex things like smelting ore and growing food. Then you could begin repairing your base with locally made components, eventually building new sections. This is a _good_ boondoggle, that will bind politicians to supporting ISRU and self sufficiency tech long term, unlike the ISS which was largely a justification for the shuttle, diverting money away from tech that could reduce shuttle usage, and whose focus on highly sensitive microgravity experiments conflicted with goals of actually living there. As a bonus, it could take part in a teleoperated robotic colony on the moon.
How about dividing a sphere into triangle or pentagon areas, then dividing the areas up, and finally when you know who your neighbors are Randomly rotate the grid so that everyone has a chance to get the gold mine?
Unfortunately, the Spanish didn't use it all that wisely. They built palaces and armies and navies, instead of transportation, education and information infrastructures. Oh, they did some of that more productive stuff, but a lot of the money they just wasted on silly wars and the means to fight them. Also, the imposition of the Peninsular Caste system on the Spanish colonies continues to create social problems in Latin America, today. Spanish colonization provides some great lessons about things to *not* do, when colonizing new worlds.
First off.. I didn't know you were a veteran. Thank you for your service. You would have been the best person to serve with. I'm sure you had everyone enthralled with your ability to conversate and make those late night watches significantly less boring. 2nd? How do you get these awesome images? Are they from a videogame?
As a veteran myself I guarantee you that he didn't fit in. I will always laugh about the times hanging out on my balcony with my pipe and a glass of Merlot while everyone around me had beer and cigarettes.
@@scotteskridge7460 lol! I'd have been on that balcony with you. And fair point I was surrounded by cave men not intelligence haha.. so really what I'm saying is I'd have enjoyed his company on those long watches. Thanks for your service as well
I imagine colonization of the moon would be based on the extent to which each colonial power can do it themselves. A country the couldn't fully establish itself without help would probably have to make positioning and economic concessions to the states that help them colonize, with the most dependent states at the least advantage. This doesn't necessarily HAVE to lead to irreversible inequality; perhaps a dependent colony could gain greater territorial rights by agreeing to develop less exploitable areas. This also makes for a neat theoretical model of space colonization, where you have an economically powerful "rear echelon" civilization that spreads more nomadic colonists ahead of itself then slowly expands to exploit the worlds they settle.
I've never seriously considered Switzerland as a space power before, and now think it's role (if not the specific country) almost inevitable, doing exactly what it does internationally now (in popular culture at least). There was a recent study about the distancing effect on simulated colonists of being isolated and delayed communication where their interactions with Earth base decreased from hundreds of hours a week to a few tens. I can only see the continuing of this trend along with the different world view of those in space feeling connected together because of a more over-arching perspective (sort of the same thing happens in the military). I see it resulting in semi independent entities using negotiating agents and having few deep ties to Earth. I don't see the UN playing a large role as it has a largely symbolic role on Earth, maybe a local confederation of Moon bases akin to the European union? The wrinkle in that scenario is the total dependence on Earth for basic resources until the large scale industrialization of colonies. So the Expanse...of sorts...
Why do we want to leave home? 1. To see what's over the horizon. 2. To find a distant mate. 3. To claim new territory. 4. To preserve the species. Fortunately, in space, #2 is more difficult than #3, since no one else is home. Personally, I'm in the isolationist, build your own utopian village camp. Whereas, a small colony (e.g., on Ceres) acting as a confederacy flagship, with a proxy government/legal representative back on earth (say, Luxembourg), could swing a lot of weight by claiming to franchise a mining corporation on a bunch of asteroids, and allowing those asteroids to invent their own colonial styles, so long as they contribute a token value of ores annually. And their primary profit stream could be from the "company store," supplying the means for setting up new colonies in the Belt.
I always questioned the inflated central space within an O'Neil Cylinder. This to synthesize "outdoors" in an enclosed habitat when humans would more easily adapt to an indoor environment, leaving most of the inner space available for external utilities such as electromagnets for magnetic field shielding and spoke-mounted sliding weights for maintaining dynamic balance with a chaotically moving human mass inside the outer cylinder.
I remember one science fiction commenting on an interstellar federal republic based on Earth: "Representative democracy becomes incredibly complicated when one member state has twice the population of everyone else combined."
So it's possible to have a Second British East India Company except among the stars as an example in the future with PAX Britain etc.. Might make an interesting Sci-Fi story that idea
Number one reason should be self preservation, how much environmental stress would be relieved if we had a large scale moon colony capable of self sufficiency and maybe some large scale space stations with large scale hydroponics on them?
Idk if we are good or bad. But exciting stuff. What's one planet among who friggin knows how many... . Just don't kill this one. .....I live here.. love ur work.
The legal framework around owning land on the moon or mars etc is still 'res communis' (common heritage of all mankind), including by treaty and by Executive Order, it is not Luna or Mars nullius. It's basically public space.
Cities in space... ORP's (Orbital Residence Platforms) is something that needs to happen, for farming, for factory & manufacturing, for the continuation of our species.
Can we discuss how people could ever live , for more than a year or two , outside of Earth's biosphere ? Nitrogen , oxygen , water , food, disease resistance, vitamins etc. ? Without a mega ship carrying half of Earth's output for a year ??
You could ask subscribers to send you sci fi videos for your show. You could tell them to put their name in the top corner of the video so they get exposure. That way you can have a greater selection of videos to edit in.
I'm in the camp that, it's not practical now. We don't have to simply _wait_ for it to become practical, then go do it -- once it becomes practical, *somebody is going to do it.*
Isaac my friend, this is a loving Brazilian ex military fan. I'd like to give you an idea for a video outside of your normal assumptions, so you might consider. "A future where humanity population stagnate at 2-3 billion".
I don't know if "if you can terraform Mars, you can save Earth" is a compelling argument. Just having the technology to save the Earth from climate change, viruses, nuclear winter, asteroid strike, etc., is not the same as having the political will and coordination to actually use that technology. The fact that we haven't done anything substantive about climate change really calls into question why there would be an assumption that we'll do something tomorrow or the day after.
*Dismantles Mercury to construct additional Pylons*
*"Yes."*
Not enough minerals!
lol "You must construct additional pylons" 😋
DISMANTLE THE INNER SOLAR SYSTEM FOR DYSON SWARMS!!!
@@Uranium-jj7le based fission fuel
Mercury:what is my purpose?
Every scifi youtuber:you support resources for our mega structures
Mercury:oh my god
Yeah, it's all fun and games until we find out there is an underground civilization on Mercury that might take exception to us dismantling their planet.
@@davecasey4341 Just throw some freedom at them.
-until they do a reverse liberation on our asses and nuke us from orbit-
@@davecasey4341 you mean like when europeans "colonized" america? Yeah i doubt we would give a fck about other civilisations.
@@Pimpmedown I'm glad they brought the wheel and engineering in general, and the horse, none of which existed in North America before they arrived.
Edit: Stop bringing up the "smallpox blankets" conspiracy theory folks, it has been debunked for a VERY long time. It happened in the 1600s, and we didn't discover Germ Theory until 1861, so shut up about it.
In halo they use it to study antigravity
There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and dismantling Mercury for resources.
Not true. Science will find a solution for the first two.
@@robertwokosin1293 Not for taxes it won't!
fyi, the phrase about death and taxes is just weird in the third world where no one pays taxes
Smelt that baby down!!!
@@SummerSong1366 oh someone pays the taxes. One way or another. If the country has a single government representative, there is someone paying for it.
I plan to colonize the solar system for the same reason that men climbed mountains.
Because it is there.
that and 2 quadrillion friends
A few decades ago, Marshall T. Savage wrote a book called "The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Universe in Eight Easy Steps." One theme was that every step had to make lots of money in order to pay for the next step. And by 'lots,' we're talking tens of billions of dollars a year from the first few colonies so that the next stage could begin almost immediately. (Because of the distribution and relative energy cost of materials, to build colonies on the moon it's much cheaper to import volatiles from the asteroid belt than from Earth. This has the practical result that by the time large Lunar colonies are developed, there will be small permanent asteroid colonies, ready to grow into large ones.)
I've actually got that book!
[Although I hear it's been updated for 2021. It's now called "The Millennial Project: Colonizing Social Media in Eight Easy Steps," but that's a different story...]
'Deliver' materials to the moon could become 'kinetic mining'. Digge hole.
In t message boards for the LUF I argued that NEA mining was the logical first step.
I still maintain that if ever the question comes up of how to make it "pay off" or how to pay for it long term, NEA metals are the only option.
Yes, we hear that if you bring in aeroentry barges of asteroid metals, you're going to drop the value of what you're bringing and ruin your own business. Yes, but for that moment, you own more "wealth" than all the mercantile interests or old-money empires or nation -states in history, combined.
After I binge watched The expanse last week this is a perfect episode
As in the last season or all of them? If all of them.. dang..that's serious lol.
@@zREDDINGTONz yeah, that’s some serious binging.
Ha I did the same but in about 2 or 3 weeks and this matched up perfectly with the belters
@@zREDDINGTONz Yes, all seasons in one week. It got a bit intense
nice. gotta love to see people loving the same series as oneself. Was it your first time watching it? I watched it my thrid time about 3 or 4 weeks ago. LOVE IT.
If the other factions are preventing you from disassembling things to build a Dyson swarm, why not try it in a neighbouring star system? Could be another motivation for interstellar colonisation.
Bullseye
build o'neill probes to build multiple dyson swarms in multiple systems as well as habitats and armadas guarding your claims waiting for your command. Becomes problematic when everyone does it but also forces you to do so as well if you aren't already since at some point all near stars even the red dwarfs will be taken and the investment needed to steo into the game as a sovereign power will get much higher. Could definitly see that happening.
@@sizanogreen9900 Nah, we then move those stars.
@@nandodando9695 that might be a bit farther off I would reccon.
So go all the way to another solar system (a challenge in itself that will take years to hundreds of years to thousands of years), disassemble a planet in another solar system, and then bring the materials back here? Nah, disassemble Mercury, the asteroid belt, etc.
Idea for a sci-fi setting, which I've been considering as a backstory for a boardgame:
-Earth is still the largest human population centre.
-Reliable lightspeed communication means realtime global communication *BUT* non-realtime communication between worlds.
-The nations of Earth remain independent of one another, and are frequently at odds.
-Various colony worlds have had their multinational collection of colonies merge into global governments across the planet (or moon).
-These global nations have more freedom to act without realtime intervention from neighbours like Earth nations have to worry about.
-Even though they're not technically as "powerful" in raw resources and manpower, Earth's internal political strife makes it less of a powerhouse than its colony worlds in practical terms.
Historically, the two general categories (those going to create profit and those who consider expansion a good in itself) tend to go together. Those who think a given colony can generate wealth but who have no particular desire to go themselves would bankroll expeditions mostly composed of those who just wanted to go anyway. (On Earth, this has led to some odd residuals. One of the nicknames for the people of North Carolina is 'Tar Heels,' because one of the first settlements in what became North Carolina was established to produce tar for the Royal Navy as a profit-making venture. Some other commercial settlements were created to trade for furs, or to grow tobacco for the rapidly expanding tobacco trade in Europe, and so forth. The Spanish seizing territory to take huge quantities of gold and silver turned out to be such a bad idea that even now, centuries later, Spain still has residual economic problems from the inflation those imports caused.)
Based on this history, it seems likely that there will be many colonies funded as investments but actually settled by people who mostly want to settle in new places as wither ultimately better economically for themselves and their descendants or because they see settling new places and building them up as good in itself.
Hahaha the stars are way to far
@@Azamat421 Too bad you couldn't be bothered to watch the video before blathering, as this video is about colonizing the Solar system. You know, the one we're almost in the middle of.
Waste of time they ant even colonize mars and the sun will eat it anyways
@@Azamat421 Mars isn't a great place to colonize, at least until you've built of infrastructure in orbit a god deal. It's easier to build O'Neil Cylinders in orbit of Mars and establish a good and uninterruptible supply of energy from power satellites before you try to establish colonies on the surface.
As much as I would love to see swarms and swarms of habitats. My heart and sentiment is definitely towards terraforming Mars and Venus.... if only because those are the two planets that inspired us in our infancy to contemplate leaving our cradle.
All these worlds are yours to dismantle save for these three. Attempt no factory probes here.
@Darryl Revok you're wrong and you're fatherless
@Darryl Revok prove it
Why?
So that maybe in a few thousand years, a few moodier farmers can till the soul? So that a few more tourists can walk naked under a sky?
That only gives us maybe x2 the land area of the Earth's land surface area.
In just the inner Solar system small bodies, there are materials to build for hundreds of times the Earth's carrying capacity, in better conditions than on any planet, including better than much of the Earth. In the main Belt, thousands of times, and the "habitable zone" around the Sun goes out into the Oort cloud beyond.
Humans: "looks like we need resources for another megastructure!"
Mercury: "yes dear..."
"Oh Mercury, time for your 4pm rendering down into resources."
This is making me want to boot up No Man's Sky, take off in my exotic, The Song of Sleep, and set up a new home in an unpopulated system
Every time I watch an Isaac Arthur video, I feel a powerful urge to play Stellaris
With his mod on, I assume?
@@veejayroth There is an Isaac Arthur mod? Thats so badass.
@@domusavires19 Yup! ruclips.net/video/cV8CiaOejzM/видео.html
@@veejayroth Well, i now know my permanent narrator voice is.
SFIA, where the common topics and tropes of science fiction are examined with rigor.
Going to enjoy this episode with my lunch later. 😋
People: "Should we colonise the Moon or Mars first?"
SFIA Fans: "Yes"
Ceres
I'm favor of settling luna first.
Definitely the moon it is both easier and more immediately practical to do so, but both would be great.
don't forget about Venus too, i want cloud cities
The Moon, because the ONLY person I want to see get stuck 7 months at best, 2 YEARS at worst away from help rather than 3 to 4 DAYS... is Elon himself.
Happy Veterans Day, Mr. Arthur! Thank you for your service.
Israel thanks you as well for fighting it's enemies for them.
Hey Isaac you probably won't see this message but I just want to say I love your voice I listen to it every night for the past 5 years it helps me go to sleep
You want to grab some of those craters with regions that receive no sunlight that way you can run your photovoltaics on the rim and use the dark centers for less radiated habs, cooling, astronomy, ect.
I feel like there is an overemphasis of colonizing Mars because “Mars has lava tubes so we could totally use them.” My rebuttal is that we have lava tubes on our moon: a mere three days’ journey away. That is so close that of there was a problem we could potentially intervene or even evacuate
It’s definitely the logical first step.
the "be valueble to your colonies" idea was one I'd never thought of.
It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks and become one with all the people. -Chairman Sheng-ji Yang,: “Ethics for Tomorrow”.
- I've made a study of utopias: Most fail when the volunteers turn out to be merely human. Even those with loyal volunteers fail when they are not economically viable. So space colonization depends on plausible economic rationales for its funding. However, in a post-scarcity economy, economic hurdles will be easily surmounted by marketing campaigns and wanderlust.
- To get a fell for this, just compare NASA's budget to what people spend on various forms of entertainment. I predict that heroes with wanderlust will volunteer to becoming the fish in the fishbowl of something like a reality show. Currently, millionaires who can afford to rent super-yachts can also afford a vacation aboard a low-gravity space station.
- The needed technologies already exist but will need some boots-on-the-ground testing. I expect that will be funded as a form of international competitions politically supported by tribal psychology. The resulting outposts won't really be colonies. They will be more like military bases.
I guess this applies for the american context.
Just finished the Red Mars trilogy. Excellent timing to discuss solar system colonization
Maybe strip mining will be a blessing in disguise for Pluto with its potential to clear the neighboring region of other objects thus revoke Pluto's status as a dwarf planet.
We can make Pluto great again one strip at a time!
Speaking of Terminator, Skynet came up with time travel but it couldn't engineer a deadly virus to kill off those pesky humans? I call shenanigans.
"Skynet is not smart, it's stupid really really fast" is my favorite description I've heard.
Well it initially traveled to a time that predates the war, and introducing such a virus would probably prevent the creation of skynet. Skynet probably also wouldn't have a very easy time destroying humanity with a virus after the nuclear strike since the spread of the virus would be much slower due to the lower populations and rates of travel.
When it comes to enforcing claims of ownership, all philosophical discussion takes a step back in the face of that which deals with authority, which is very simple philosophy.
The root of all authority is the ability and willingness to inflict more deadly force than whatever entity disagrees with you. This principle can be obscured by abstractions like outsourcing the the necessary ability and willingness to a selected group like police or military, but this transfer does not alter the thing.
As such, whoever can build a base on any celestial object and is capable and willing to strike down any craft in route to it without being destroyed themselves, owns that object by naked fact.
Walk softly, but carry a big stick.
@@kleinjahr Indeed, but also think upon the axiom "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". Suppose a colony claims some moon of Jupiter as exclusively their own, and Earth opposes the act. The moon colonist do not necessarily need to be able to completely destroy the Earth to win that disagreement. They just have to make sure that the amount of violence needed to nullify their claim is beyond the amount that Earth is willing to commit to. Hence "ability _and_ willingness".
And so it is immensely important to know your enemy and if possible, to be close enough to them to influence their opinions, because thereby you can win against a force which is arbitrarily larger than your own.
@@AtlasReburdened I see you've been reading Sun Tzu. You might also find something interesting in Machiavelli or Clauswitz.
@@kleinjahr Not recently, but I plan to rectify that since you've reminded me.
Ah yeah! I can't watch this yet because I decided to start at the very beginning of the channel, but I'll make it here eventually!
thats tough. but i also dont recommend that. I watch isaac from the time he had less than 10k subs so i know. There isnt ANY pathway to watch his videos. Just scroll through it everytime you feel like having some scifi. BUT start at the oldest ones and scroll up. That will be much more fun.
That's a bold move brother! Good luck!
this made me want a sci-fi with a war between dissasemblers that see the destruction of earth as a small price to pay for the amount of humans that could live in the habitats made from the earths resources, and conservationists that want to see the earth preserved
I always appreciate your content Issac. Thank you for everything you do, and the level of detail you put into it!
I am if the mind that .... If humanity waits until space exploration and colonization is more reasonable (aka more affordable and risk-free), it may to too late by them to save humanity from the eventual, extinction event that is stalking us as we speak., And waiting to happen.
The pioneers who learned if the existence of the Americas, where not expecting to find this continent here. But once that did, they saw opportunity to gain wealth and a chance at immortality in the annuls of history. But those reward came with mortal risks....and many paid that price. But many their names are now eternal.
I am in the first camp that approves of space travel and colonization for its own sake, but it does need to be made more cost efficient.
I got my camping gear in tow, ready to claim an asteroid with a stable orbit. Let's go...
First time I heard Isaacs voice...turned it off.. The subjects drew me to ensure. I can't sleep without his futuristic lulibi's now.
Ohhh I'm goona get that wabbit! 😉
I am so excited about viewing this video in its entirety.
This one was pretty good, and I think the philosophical dispute about how best to colonize the Solar System will undoubtedly rear its head, as time goes on.
We've gotta figure out how to get people out there, though, in large enough numbers to get past the "early adopter" gap and into "general acceptance."
That's gonna be the hard bit.
SF writers love to describe space settlements eagerly cutting ties with Earth, but Isaac proposes that a settlement might shop around for an Earth nation to seek a relationship with.
There is an historical precedent: while the U.S. and most other newly-independent colonies in the New World became republics, some took a different route, inviting a member of a European royal family to become their King or Grand Duke.
11:30 @Isaac Arthur Total Respect, balancing on that razor edge. 1 Sci-Fi imbued Arty to another: could we get a "Non-lethal / Less-than-lethal to supersede firearms" episode? Factoid which might also dominate your thinking: forget to carry the one w/your azimuth charting, while the verification computer is down, could miss the alleged enemy only to slaughter a village...! What of Star Trek's panoply could turn into something real? Phasors set only to STUN ! ! !
I’ve often wished mankind had rather more extensively developed deep subterranean and undersea civilization and infrastructure. Such diversity on this rock down here would seem to lessen vulnerability to local environmental flux, as well as potentially prove materials and technologies adaptable to other rocks (or rings) out there.
Don't just wish for it. Build it.
we mostly don't do it because it's insanely expensive. especially subterranean construction though deep ocean has it's own unique challenges. if protection from the environment is your only reason it doesn't really make any sense since traditional surface or near-surface construction can get you similar protection from anything short of direct asteroid impacts, nuclear strikes, or volcanic eruptions which are all rare enough to make it not worth the cost or effort. though with advanced robotic automation & cheap energy it does get a whole lot easier
Thanks for the amazing content Isaac!
Can you please do a video about how we can send sequestered CO2 off Earth in the form of fertilizer, fuel, and building materials. This would advance both the space industry and ecological restoration of Earth as well as attract the investment of both interest groups.
So much money is being directed to Direct Air Capture technology which is almost purely cost with the only benefit being the carbon removal.
Biochar is a porous soil amendment that can be saturated in liquid fertilizer to make a powerful fertilizer. Methane rocket fuel can be synthesized from the air or from anaerobic digesters, which can also pair with biochar production. Biogas can also be blended with hydrogen in existing natural gas power plants. This can be a part of the solution to clean energy as well as transfer to a part of a circular economy for a space colony.
The main issue is amount of carbon mass we need to offworld without emmiting more CO2 in the process.
You're videos are amazing and I have been obsessing over this idea for a while now.
A moon base would be the obvious refueling and agricultural center to then move to Mars and onwards.
How do you think the numbers break down?
How long would it take to offworld enough sequestered CO2 to make a difference to slow down global warming? 🤔
I really think O'Neill cylinders are the future. Beyond it being an inspiring goal that captures the imagination, I can't understand Elon Musk's fixation on Mars. I really think he's just using it as a proof of concept. What we really need is industry in space. Start with a moon base, then build in orbit or at Lagrange points, and then start building O'Neill cylinders. Tons of living room, no issues from microgravity, but also easy to travel from one to another, and moveable in case of a threat. They are kind of tough to beat, IMO.
For the moon's south pole. It might be an idea to send some RTG Rovers that can shave down some hills there. Leaving the best light bearing hills exposed for more light for solar panels. The regolith from these tops could be used to smoothing out surface areas for landing pad areas, roads, and to make berms at lower areas.
yeah, and you could methodically bake the dust with a couple big mirrors in orbit
God I love Thursdays. These videos are so great
I always enjoy your videos Mr. Arthur. Keep it up! :)
I've never been here this early. Love your content issac!
Yo Issac is popping off! 662k subs... I remember seeing 24k :O
Very impressive
Channel cloning techniques have improved.
Wow, near term Sol system development projects are coming.
...
interplanetary bases, space highway transportation system, spaceports/stations, Moon and extroplanets terraforming process, settlement selections, interstellar supply chains, interstellar trade centers, interstellar agricultural and manufacturing chains, interstellar mines and metal management, deep space negotiations, galactic diplomatic and economic projects, etc.
If I'm uploading my consciousness, I want infinite copies so I can try to find my best life.
I think the most outlandish, unbelievable thing you've ever suggested is a board member feeling duty to their employees
I watch these more for the visuals than anything else. One thing I know for sure though, is we are heading into some of the most exciting times in history
As someone who has worked retail. I can assure you there is noone in that board room concerned about the employees.
That's a good metaphor. Gotta raise that pop cap.
So, if you have never read an Alastair Reynolds book, what is a good one to start with?
Slow Bullets and Pushing Ice
Dude, I cannot get enough of your channel.
Also, happy belated Veteran's Day, brother. Welcome Home.
I think a partial dyson could really solve a lot of our problems
Recently stumbled across your channel and love it!
Ya know, I've always wondered what we would do if an alien race just showed up and moved into our solar system, completely ignoring us, and just start colonizing everything else out there, possibly terraforming Mars and Venus. And all we could do is watch as what we always considered our solar system becomes theirs.
Woo Hoo! We're Camp no. 1!!!
Only land that you can militarily defend can you call your own.
05:39 "...or stubbornly refuse to admit they are right about everything."
I LOLed so hard at this. The best laugh I had all day.
More things for the mind to play with! :)
This will be a popular video in Whitehall!
Just watched a great yourtube video called grabby aliens. Anyone else see it what do you guys think? Could it be we see no aliens because we are early?? What's your view Isaac?
Doesn't space travel look like Age of Sail though. Expeditions were either funded by government institutions (Spain, Portugal, Dutch), joint stock companies (the early English colonies in America) or a collusion between private sector and government Royal Expedition Society and East India Company.
The small religious groups were either working with governments, like the Catholic church, or were groups the coordinated internally to volunteer but were funded by businesses to do the actual venture like with the Puritans.
Wonder if the Scottish will go bankrupt over a failed colony this time? 😉
Happy Veterans Day Isaac. Thank you for your service.
We need more comments like this.
Colonizing the solar system requires balance, time and generations. Maximize the benefit of taking on the challenge and you will be rewarded. Chaotic expanse is just that, chaos!
always a pleasure to see a new video has been uploaded.
I wonder how fast interstellar travel will come after interplanetary colonization. It probably will happen right after we learn to build sustainable space habitats and able to produce everything in space, which probably will be around the time we manage to self sustaining colonies. Also around that time tension between Earth and the colonies will be the highest because they can finally be able to be independent. This might lead to people leaving the solar system.
Another reason why the first couple of trips somewhere are more expensive: Since nobody has been there for any significant period of time, the sources of good materials (like mineral wealth) haven't been discovered yet. Several of the first few settlements in North America intended to cut down trees to be used as ship masts. England had been cutting down trees for centuries and there wasn't a lot of good timber left. But a few days of sailing up and down the east coast will reveal thousands of acres of rich timberland. Minerals like gold, silver, iron, and coal are tougher to find if not impossible to find without digging. The first few settlements would have a better chance of finding good spots where the next wave was more like 'settle for what's left.'
My own pet strategy, easier and more adaptable than the moon or mars, and needing no speculative business model, is to combine:
(a) The *Luna Gateway* a successor to the ISS in high lunar orbit
(b) The *Asteroid Redirect Mission* where multiple robotic tugs collect and return samples from diverse asteroid type.
You just keep running this project with some constant fraction of NASA funding, mastering self sufficiency and ISRU. What we can achieve with that budget can expand to infinity as we master those skills. It would certainly be nice if we master some business model that justifies more investment from earth but it is not necessary. In space workers will create in space industries to serve themselves.
The initial ISRU goal would be the simplest, just using asteroid material for shielding mass. Next would be volatile extraction for lifesupport and fuel. Then would be more complex things like smelting ore and growing food. Then you could begin repairing your base with locally made components, eventually building new sections.
This is a _good_ boondoggle, that will bind politicians to supporting ISRU and self sufficiency tech long term, unlike the ISS which was largely a justification for the shuttle, diverting money away from tech that could reduce shuttle usage, and whose focus on highly sensitive microgravity experiments conflicted with goals of actually living there.
As a bonus, it could take part in a teleoperated robotic colony on the moon.
In mining other planets and moons we should remember and use the lessons learned by the Spanish in how they used gold and silver from the New World.
How about dividing a sphere into triangle or pentagon areas, then dividing the areas up, and finally when you know who your neighbors are Randomly rotate the grid so that everyone has a chance to get the gold mine?
Unfortunately, the Spanish didn't use it all that wisely.
They built palaces and armies and navies, instead of transportation, education and information infrastructures.
Oh, they did some of that more productive stuff, but a lot of the money they just wasted on silly wars and the means to fight them.
Also, the imposition of the Peninsular Caste system on the Spanish colonies continues to create social problems in Latin America, today.
Spanish colonization provides some great lessons about things to *not* do, when colonizing new worlds.
Unfettered capitalism will screw that up, as it did for the Spanish.
@@thekaxmax we won get there
I grabbed Mercury for my snack this time.
I guess I'm in the camp that's been to excited about seeing things happen to consider most of these things..
First off.. I didn't know you were a veteran. Thank you for your service. You would have been the best person to serve with. I'm sure you had everyone enthralled with your ability to conversate and make those late night watches significantly less boring.
2nd? How do you get these awesome images? Are they from a videogame?
As a veteran myself I guarantee you that he didn't fit in. I will always laugh about the times hanging out on my balcony with my pipe and a glass of Merlot while everyone around me had beer and cigarettes.
@@scotteskridge7460 lol! I'd have been on that balcony with you. And fair point I was surrounded by cave men not intelligence haha.. so really what I'm saying is I'd have enjoyed his company on those long watches.
Thanks for your service as well
I imagine colonization of the moon would be based on the extent to which each colonial power can do it themselves. A country the couldn't fully establish itself without help would probably have to make positioning and economic concessions to the states that help them colonize, with the most dependent states at the least advantage. This doesn't necessarily HAVE to lead to irreversible inequality; perhaps a dependent colony could gain greater territorial rights by agreeing to develop less exploitable areas. This also makes for a neat theoretical model of space colonization, where you have an economically powerful "rear echelon" civilization that spreads more nomadic colonists ahead of itself then slowly expands to exploit the worlds they settle.
Great episode! Happy Veterans Day Arthur. Ready First!
I've never seriously considered Switzerland as a space power before, and now think it's role (if not the specific country) almost inevitable, doing exactly what it does internationally now (in popular culture at least). There was a recent study about the distancing effect on simulated colonists of being isolated and delayed communication where their interactions with Earth base decreased from hundreds of hours a week to a few tens. I can only see the continuing of this trend along with the different world view of those in space feeling connected together because of a more over-arching perspective (sort of the same thing happens in the military). I see it resulting in semi independent entities using negotiating agents and having few deep ties to Earth. I don't see the UN playing a large role as it has a largely symbolic role on Earth, maybe a local confederation of Moon bases akin to the European union? The wrinkle in that scenario is the total dependence on Earth for basic resources until the large scale industrialization of colonies. So the Expanse...of sorts...
Why do we want to leave home?
1. To see what's over the horizon.
2. To find a distant mate.
3. To claim new territory.
4. To preserve the species.
Fortunately, in space, #2 is more difficult
than #3, since no one else is home.
Personally, I'm in the isolationist, build your own utopian village camp. Whereas, a small colony (e.g., on Ceres) acting as a confederacy flagship, with a proxy government/legal representative back on earth (say, Luxembourg), could swing a lot of weight by claiming to franchise a mining corporation on a bunch of asteroids, and allowing those asteroids to invent their own colonial styles, so long as they contribute a token value of ores annually. And their primary profit stream could be from the "company store," supplying the means for setting up new colonies in the Belt.
Never been this early!
Its hard to fall a sleep to these videos.
World Anvil... The only youtube advertisment I have followed up on... Shit, I thought I was pretty good at disregarding youtube ads...
I always questioned the inflated central space within an O'Neil Cylinder. This to synthesize "outdoors" in an enclosed habitat when humans would more easily adapt to an indoor environment, leaving most of the inner space available for external utilities such as electromagnets for magnetic field shielding and spoke-mounted sliding weights for maintaining dynamic balance with a chaotically moving human mass inside the outer cylinder.
I remember one science fiction commenting on an interstellar federal republic based on Earth: "Representative democracy becomes incredibly complicated when one member state has twice the population of everyone else combined."
11:37 that fork lift is moon walking. how fitting!
One of the best channels on YT
So it's possible to have a Second British East India Company except among the stars as an example in the future with PAX Britain etc.. Might make an interesting Sci-Fi story that idea
Number one reason should be self preservation, how much environmental stress would be relieved if we had a large scale moon colony capable of self sufficiency and maybe some large scale space stations with large scale hydroponics on them?
Idk if we are good or bad. But exciting stuff. What's one planet among who friggin knows how many... . Just don't kill this one. .....I live here.. love ur work.
The legal framework around owning land on the moon or mars etc is still 'res communis' (common heritage of all mankind), including by treaty and by Executive Order, it is not Luna or Mars nullius.
It's basically public space.
Cities in space... ORP's (Orbital Residence Platforms) is something that needs to happen, for farming, for factory & manufacturing, for the continuation of our species.
Can we discuss how people could ever live , for more than a year or two , outside of Earth's biosphere ? Nitrogen , oxygen , water , food, disease resistance, vitamins etc. ? Without a mega ship carrying half of Earth's output for a year ??
You could ask subscribers to send you sci fi videos for your show. You could tell them to put their name in the top corner of the video so they get exposure. That way you can have a greater selection of videos to edit in.
9:45 I don't think that's Tycho crater. I believe you've made a lil mistake there.
I'm in the camp that, it's not practical now. We don't have to simply _wait_ for it to become practical, then go do it -- once it becomes practical, *somebody is going to do it.*
Isaac my friend, this is a loving Brazilian ex military fan. I'd like to give you an idea for a video outside of your normal assumptions, so you might consider. "A future where humanity population stagnate at 2-3 billion".
I don't know if "if you can terraform Mars, you can save Earth" is a compelling argument. Just having the technology to save the Earth from climate change, viruses, nuclear winter, asteroid strike, etc., is not the same as having the political will and coordination to actually use that technology. The fact that we haven't done anything substantive about climate change really calls into question why there would be an assumption that we'll do something tomorrow or the day after.
*posts obligatory comment with The Expanse reference*
Oye, beltaloda! 😂😂😂😂
I wanna hear that guest lecture you gave. Do you post anything like that?
I love the graphics on this channel.
Bless Isaac
[The Expanse theme intensifies]
woohoo sooo glad to hear another RS novel has dropped, looking fwd to some relativistic space battles!
wats RS stand for