I don't care much how easy they are to remove or how much cleanup is required. Was there any difference in the amount of dimensional accuracy or warping between the different methods?
This is a really interesting idea. With the right resin it may snap off cleanly, and worst case it will be like the brim of a FDM print where you can clean it off with a deburring tool or hobby knife.
Not for something as Sirayatech Blu. That stuff is though. And ideal for technical objects that have to withstand at least something on half the rigidity as stupid PLA from FDM (I prefer cf nylon solely - no resin alternative at all)
I have played around with this concept a bit. I think in a lot of ways this is going to be a really powerful method. I always referred to it as "shaped supports" Now we just need it implemented in a slicer!
When i first started 3d printing 6 months ago I had a hard time figuring out supports and I got very discouraged with how much waste was being created with them so U just went and created my own custom supports and I still use them a lot. In fact I have a large print going right now that will take just under 800gm of filament with my supports but it was going to be over 1kg with they least amount of supports I could get cura to add. I'm glad to know that I'm my ignorance and impatience I actually did something good. 😊
Tree supports mean you shouldn't really have to do this. Also if you make the supports part of the stl then you can't use an interface layer to break them off easier.
@@Hitman12. if you simply leave a gap in cad, you have your interface layer. And tree supports are excessive for certain projects, at least in my opinion.
Folks have been printing dice like this for years. It’s why Chitubox it produced “paint on” and “line” supports. I upsized the idea to print a full size “El Corazon” (the emerald from Romancing the Stone”) You can get nice, clean, sharp edges using this method.
I think current supports are the ones that typically wreck FEP by leaving small dot indentations especially if you end up printing too fast. Idea like doing continuous supports came into my head few times but i never tried it as printing some geometric shapes on a 45 degree angle left warping all over. If these supports actually went even completely down to the build plate it would be ideal I get there would be a lot more resin wasted but id rather get more accurate prints and healthy FEB over wasting a bit more resin per print.
Thanks Jessy! I love that you're exploring this. I do product development and usually print geometric shapes with smooth surfaces and want to minimize the amount of post work. Not sure I have the formula down quite yet but I will be exploring this option
@@black___gains yes building on the build plate is a part of the solution but sometimes you need supports as well if the part has some over hang etc. Part of the problem of building on the build plate is that you get elephants foot. I printed a successful print yesterday where i printed the part on the build plate and made 'parametric' supports in my cad software and it came out perfect
Did this process after lots of testing with Lychee supports for a production run of really small adapters on a Mars 2 Pro with regular FEP. Modeled my tower of parts (tested 5-9 high) in CAD. Was getting 300-500 parts per print (depending on success of each part). Best part was that I could strip the parts off the tower like food from a skewer and the supports generally flattened as the parts went past.
Us dice makers have been doing this for years. We call them fence supports. They work super well if your printing straight lines and complex geometric shapes
I got a wham-bam play for my resin printer and I print my bases directly on the plate anymore, no supports. This is really cool when I can think of many uses besides basis for it. But I started taking models designed for no support fdm prints and started printing them right on the plate of my resin printer.
I'm curious how clean you could get it is you use a fresh razor blade on the continuous support option (without breaking it away first)... The problem with breaking off is that it might break off a bit of the print. Removing one continuous line should be easier with the razor then doing that with dozens of contact points. The amount of pressure and the right angle might require some experimentation...
I suggest starting from the end of a continuous run and pressing gently so it starts to open up and then pressing along. Once it's able to fold over, do it. The pictures I have of these parts on my cults page were done at room temperature using my fingernails. What little remains comes off quickly and smoothly with a hobby knife. Starting with a knife turned out to be more work because I've been designing the supports with stress risers where breakage is desired. Something even easier is in the works.
Modeling Razor saw is always handy for things like these contact support removal I use it on inline supports for the bases or keyed attachments for my 3D printed model's! It was something I had a few of being a modeller and thought they would work alot cleaner than tear away! Even if you are tearing the supports slide the tips sode way's done pull then they do alot less damage and leave next to no attachment marks
I've been doing this on my functional part designs for years, best advice i can give is to do some test prints to find how thin you can go, and then use a fresh exacto blade to slice them off before curing. "tough" resins like ABS style ones work best.
Nice vid Jessy - really detailed and high quality demonstration of a complex topic. Going to try this and some similar stuff. Just getting over the hump of 'designing our own supports' is probably the big step. I design drinkware and tableware and would love to use the MSLA machines for dinner plates, drinkware, etc, but it always warps and looks terrible. I have even considered reaching out to one of you pros to see what you would do to print a 12" dinner plate in resin - or a 11x6x3" rectangular bento box design, or similar product protos. Would love a video showing attempts and answers to making 'actual product prototypes' with the type of geometry real products have.
I heard that the Vlare slicer has a function that enables separate exposure times for supports. I haven’t tried it yet, but I will be since I make continuous supports as well, and I would love to get that perfect snap! Pro tip: I use a torch lighter and a razor blade which basically means no sanding necessary.
That's amazing! i have been making supports manually in CAD just like those (FDM printing though) and it leaves perfect, nearly perfect support as long as there's a perpendicular section to support laterally so it doesn't get tipped over while printing
Interesting. I'd guess with the Inline support you might have to adjust the penetration depth to create a weaker connection, which wouldn't matter as much as you have such a dense arrangement of support. Looks like with a bit of testing/adjustment it'll be a useful feature.
This would be a great feature. I'm currently printing small switches and buttons for my cockpit sim and the left over support contacts are the biggest pain. Even with my settings dialed in, there is still a significant amount of marks left by the supports. This feature would cut down my paint prep significantly.
Looks like you're using the default support settings in Lychee. I've found those are set up as that because they're more forgiving for suboptimal exposure. If you set your printer with the cones of calibration you can probably use supports with tips in the order of like 0.2-0.3mm. Those are sooo easy to remove. With such thickness and continuous placement I'm sure you'd have a better experience.
I've engineered these type of supports myself, never knew there was a name for them. I prefer trimming a clean seam with my exacto sanding the surface flush to remove support acne.
i do functional printing as engineer. i hated those small support and it need alot of clean up. so i pre design my support in my cad software. usualy its square or rectangle with 0.5mm thickness. then aftr curing i remove them with a xecto knife.
Hey, you finally using a heat gun for resin supports .. or have you always used them? I’ve used them but I definitely should wear a mask when I do, that smell is rough 🤢 but it’s great for supports.
Really interesting. I'm gonna try this. I make some small pieces that end up with thick appendages where the resin pools in the tips is the supports, even if I turn the density right down. I wonder if a continuous support would drain more easily.
It’s really interesting, I tried it on a few parts…but for geometric, mechanical parts it’s best to print flat on the buildplate. A tuned machine is mandatory though. I constantly see people using so much curing time on base layer…you just need 3-4x normal curing time
Hello 'Uncle' Jessy Question please: With your extensive knowledge of resin printing - I have some extra resin(s) left over but not enough for a full print - is it possible to mix 'High Toughness' resin with 'Standard' resin with decent results? Thanks for your time.
I have a question, is there a way of printing rubber resin (F39) and making it electrically conductive, so that it can operate touchscreens like a phone stylus? can I just add graphite powder to the resin or will this break my Saturn 2?
I really like Elegoo space gray colour however it is only 8k resin whitch is more expensive. I have Anycubic Photon Mono a 2k printer. Are there any advantages in using 8k resin on 2k printer?
If you want to remove that bolt you can just put two nuts and try to unscrew it turning just the bottom one. It should lock with the other nut and you should be able to unscew it whole.
Really cool video! Just was thinking about that. to model MAX this kind of suports. I print only technical parts now and trying to do molds from them. Was thinking if some more advanced printres like Hey gers will can print it with his slicer just on plug and play without any model manipulations. I have same warping issue on Anycubic photon MONO X. Def Subspcibe here!
Often you just print it flat without supports. Compensate for bottom layer and elephants foot with chamfer and z height reduction. Also helps if there's a hole in the build plate for hollow prints.
Your vocal fluctuations show your enthusiasm which in turn causes breakage of parts from printers. It's from your passion, no need to worry. Just don't hurt yourself. Ha ha. Keep up the great work.
This is hoe dice habe been supported for a while. How dimensionally accurate have you gotten a cube? D6s are one of tye hardest to get dimensional accuracy with
Here is a topic for you, hows about you make something to mix resin bottles before you put it into the vat for printing lets c if u can do that, this would be a worthy project for you and the followers
Hmmm interesting! I have printed a few hundred keycaps and one thing that happens a lot is the bottom edges will warp slightly just like the base on that bust. It doesn't really matter in my case but I think this concept is important and will probably see much wider implementation in the future.
You can’t do away with that “warping” this is resin and it’s nature it shrinks and expands it’s not ideal for any accurate parts or environment use or food use.
Question for anyone out there… I’ve got a project I’m starting that uses old resin bottles (look like the perfect size). However I don’t yet have a resin printer, someday I hope, and therefore no desire to buy bottles just for the bottles themselves… can anyone shoot me the size specs for any brand/bottle size? I need the brand, diameter, and height… Thanks in advance for any assistance
You never once showed the actual contact surface from any of your tests. I know we're on the internet and I should implicitly trust you but I'd still like to see it myself since this is visual content :)
I'm using this method to 3d printing dice for my customers. I previously did some research about how to maintain the exact geometric shape of each die (D6, D12, D20, etc.) and I found this video from @Rybonator that helped me A LOT! Those continuous supports you mentioned, in dice printing they are called "fin supports". ruclips.net/video/cG1zigTs0-k/видео.html&ab_channel=Rybonator
Hey Uncle Jessy. I know you're really into comic culture - maybe we can collab on something? I'm a prop maker and would like to return the favor from your tutorial videos helping me get my small business started.
I don't care much how easy they are to remove or how much cleanup is required. Was there any difference in the amount of dimensional accuracy or warping between the different methods?
not great, look at the parts on glass at the end: they're still warped even for how tiny they are
Don't want warpage? Add more supports.
I have been doing this for a long time on my engineering parts. Works like a charm.
Can You tell how to use it actually?
This is a really interesting idea. With the right resin it may snap off cleanly, and worst case it will be like the brim of a FDM print where you can clean it off with a deburring tool or hobby knife.
Not for something as Sirayatech Blu.
That stuff is though. And ideal for technical objects that have to withstand at least something on half the rigidity as stupid PLA from FDM (I prefer cf nylon solely - no resin alternative at all)
I have played around with this concept a bit. I think in a lot of ways this is going to be a really powerful method. I always referred to it as "shaped supports"
Now we just need it implemented in a slicer!
When i first started 3d printing 6 months ago I had a hard time figuring out supports and I got very discouraged with how much waste was being created with them so U just went and created my own custom supports and I still use them a lot. In fact I have a large print going right now that will take just under 800gm of filament with my supports but it was going to be over 1kg with they least amount of supports I could get cura to add. I'm glad to know that I'm my ignorance and impatience I actually did something good. 😊
I do the same thing for fdm printing. Custom made supports are the way to go for perfecting your prints!
Could you share what of your videos you do this?
Tree supports mean you shouldn't really have to do this. Also if you make the supports part of the stl then you can't use an interface layer to break them off easier.
@@Hitman12. if you simply leave a gap in cad, you have your interface layer. And tree supports are excessive for certain projects, at least in my opinion.
Folks have been printing dice like this for years. It’s why Chitubox it produced “paint on” and “line” supports. I upsized the idea to print a full size “El Corazon” (the emerald from Romancing the Stone”) You can get nice, clean, sharp edges using this method.
I think current supports are the ones that typically wreck FEP by leaving small dot indentations especially if you end up printing too fast. Idea like doing continuous supports came into my head few times but i never tried it as printing some geometric shapes on a 45 degree angle left warping all over. If these supports actually went even completely down to the build plate it would be ideal I get there would be a lot more resin wasted but id rather get more accurate prints and healthy FEB over wasting a bit more resin per print.
Thanks Jessy! I love that you're exploring this. I do product development and usually print geometric shapes with smooth surfaces and want to minimize the amount of post work. Not sure I have the formula down quite yet but I will be exploring this option
Just print directly on the buildplate 🤷🏻♂️ geometric parts come out perfect
@@black___gains yes building on the build plate is a part of the solution but sometimes you need supports as well if the part has some over hang etc. Part of the problem of building on the build plate is that you get elephants foot. I printed a successful print yesterday where i printed the part on the build plate and made 'parametric' supports in my cad software and it came out perfect
Did this process after lots of testing with Lychee supports for a production run of really small adapters on a Mars 2 Pro with regular FEP. Modeled my tower of parts (tested 5-9 high) in CAD. Was getting 300-500 parts per print (depending on success of each part). Best part was that I could strip the parts off the tower like food from a skewer and the supports generally flattened as the parts went past.
Woah, cool strategy!
Looks like a great way to make support nubs look more intentional.
Us dice makers have been doing this for years. We call them fence supports. They work super well if your printing straight lines and complex geometric shapes
I got a wham-bam play for my resin printer and I print my bases directly on the plate anymore, no supports. This is really cool when I can think of many uses besides basis for it. But I started taking models designed for no support fdm prints and started printing them right on the plate of my resin printer.
I'm curious how clean you could get it is you use a fresh razor blade on the continuous support option (without breaking it away first)... The problem with breaking off is that it might break off a bit of the print. Removing one continuous line should be easier with the razor then doing that with dozens of contact points. The amount of pressure and the right angle might require some experimentation...
I suggest starting from the end of a continuous run and pressing gently so it starts to open up and then pressing along. Once it's able to fold over, do it. The pictures I have of these parts on my cults page were done at room temperature using my fingernails.
What little remains comes off quickly and smoothly with a hobby knife.
Starting with a knife turned out to be more work because I've been designing the supports with stress risers where breakage is desired. Something even easier is in the works.
Modeling Razor saw is always handy for things like these contact support removal I use it on inline supports for the bases or keyed attachments for my 3D printed model's! It was something I had a few of being a modeller and thought they would work alot cleaner than tear away! Even if you are tearing the supports slide the tips sode way's done pull then they do alot less damage and leave next to no attachment marks
I've been doing this on my functional part designs for years, best advice i can give is to do some test prints to find how thin you can go, and then use a fresh exacto blade to slice them off before curing. "tough" resins like ABS style ones work best.
Nice vid Jessy - really detailed and high quality demonstration of a complex topic. Going to try this and some similar stuff. Just getting over the hump of 'designing our own supports' is probably the big step. I design drinkware and tableware and would love to use the MSLA machines for dinner plates, drinkware, etc, but it always warps and looks terrible. I have even considered reaching out to one of you pros to see what you would do to print a 12" dinner plate in resin - or a 11x6x3" rectangular bento box design, or similar product protos.
Would love a video showing attempts and answers to making 'actual product prototypes' with the type of geometry real products have.
I heard that the Vlare slicer has a function that enables separate exposure times for supports. I haven’t tried it yet, but I will be since I make continuous supports as well, and I would love to get that perfect snap!
Pro tip: I use a torch lighter and a razor blade which basically means no sanding necessary.
Oh, thank you for showing that. It's perfect for my use cases!
That's amazing! i have been making supports manually in CAD just like those (FDM printing though) and it leaves perfect, nearly perfect support as long as there's a perpendicular section to support laterally so it doesn't get tipped over while printing
Interesting. I'd guess with the Inline support you might have to adjust the penetration depth to create a weaker connection, which wouldn't matter as much as you have such a dense arrangement of support. Looks like with a bit of testing/adjustment it'll be a useful feature.
Can you make a video about setting up the cheat box support? What support settings do you use?
This would be a great feature. I'm currently printing small switches and buttons for my cockpit sim and the left over support contacts are the biggest pain. Even with my settings dialed in, there is still a significant amount of marks left by the supports. This feature would cut down my paint prep significantly.
Looks like you're using the default support settings in Lychee. I've found those are set up as that because they're more forgiving for suboptimal exposure. If you set your printer with the cones of calibration you can probably use supports with tips in the order of like 0.2-0.3mm. Those are sooo easy to remove. With such thickness and continuous placement I'm sure you'd have a better experience.
Wow, very nice video! Thanks man! I will read the article.
I've engineered these type of supports myself, never knew there was a name for them. I prefer trimming a clean seam with my exacto sanding the surface flush to remove support acne.
I've done this in the past. It certainly have to think ahead when you do this.
i do functional printing as engineer. i hated those small support and it need alot of clean up. so i pre design my support in my cad software. usualy its square or rectangle with 0.5mm thickness. then aftr curing i remove them with a xecto knife.
You can adjust the depth that the sports Pendergast in lychee, that might help get a cleaner separation
Hey, you finally using a heat gun for resin supports .. or have you always used them? I’ve used them but I definitely should wear a mask when I do, that smell is rough 🤢 but it’s great for supports.
Really interesting. I'm gonna try this.
I make some small pieces that end up with thick appendages where the resin pools in the tips is the supports, even if I turn the density right down. I wonder if a continuous support would drain more easily.
It’s really interesting, I tried it on a few parts…but for geometric, mechanical parts it’s best to print flat on the buildplate.
A tuned machine is mandatory though. I constantly see people using so much curing time on base layer…you just need 3-4x normal curing time
Hello 'Uncle' Jessy
Question please: With your extensive knowledge of resin printing - I have some extra resin(s) left over but not enough for a full print - is it possible to mix 'High Toughness' resin with 'Standard' resin with decent results? Thanks for your time.
I have a drip tray for tools and funnels with at least 4 different resins. I’ve used the left overs to print with no issues.
with the stuck bolt, try using a dremal to cut a slit in the top and then use a flat head screw driver to wind it out
This is gonna be a game changer for dice
Great video as usual.
I got used to put a 0.4 mm chamfer on all edges and put rows of supports only on these.
been doing this for a while too. you can go up to .1 mm supports. comes off much easier and cleaner too!
I think that could be an excellent way to go to print geometric shapes. Big thumbs up.
There needs to be more choices for supports im glad this is a great start.
This might be the ticket for printing model railroad geometric shapes that need to remain as flat and square as possible. Nice
I have a question, is there a way of printing rubber resin (F39) and making it electrically conductive, so that it can operate touchscreens like a phone stylus? can I just add graphite powder to the resin or will this break my Saturn 2?
I really like Elegoo space gray colour however it is only 8k resin whitch is more expensive. I have Anycubic Photon Mono a 2k printer. Are there any advantages in using 8k resin on 2k printer?
What if you do basickley as he did and make a super thin solid support and then let that be supported with typical supports
If you want to remove that bolt you can just put two nuts and try to unscrew it turning just the bottom one. It should lock with the other nut and you should be able to unscew it whole.
Oh man that’s a fantastic idea!! Thanks I willl try that out.
@@UncleJessy and if not just try turning it with pliers, it shouldn't be holding that strong and bolt will end up in trash anyway.
Really cool video! Just was thinking about that. to model MAX this kind of suports. I print only technical parts now and trying to do molds from them. Was thinking if some more advanced printres like Hey gers will can print it with his slicer just on plug and play without any model manipulations. I have same warping issue on Anycubic photon MONO X. Def Subspcibe here!
Has anything come of this? This type of support doesn't seem to exist yet in the main slicers
couldn't you decrease the penetration with in-line supports? Surely with such a dense structure the overlap with the model could be minimized.
Soak the area around the bolt in 90+% IPA and then try to remove it with some vice grips. That may soften the resin.
where can i red about the dice test? cant find the post on facebook
I been experimenting with this using lychees geometry library for a while
Often you just print it flat without supports. Compensate for bottom layer and elephants foot with chamfer and z height reduction. Also helps if there's a hole in the build plate for hollow prints.
Reminds me of sprues form model kits.
This is going to be big with 1/24 scale model and RC drifting communitya .. the body kits and body's always warp
Your vocal fluctuations show your enthusiasm which in turn causes breakage of parts from printers. It's from your passion, no need to worry. Just don't hurt yourself. Ha ha. Keep up the great work.
I really hate how Lychee slicer hides so many features behind a subscription.
might help problems i'm having with things like bases and title cards.
Why not print it flat, just curious
Put a vise grips on that broken bolt, turn counter-clockwise until you hear the crack, then take it off, look around, and pretend it didn't happen.
This is hoe dice habe been supported for a while. How dimensionally accurate have you gotten a cube? D6s are one of tye hardest to get dimensional accuracy with
Stupid question : Can you expose less just the support contact with the fnished part ?
That would be handy when I was printing at-st
Here is a topic for you, hows about you make something to mix resin bottles before you put it into the vat for printing lets c if u can do that, this would be a worthy project for you and the followers
Hmmm interesting! I have printed a few hundred keycaps and one thing that happens a lot is the bottom edges will warp slightly just like the base on that bust. It doesn't really matter in my case but I think this concept is important and will probably see much wider implementation in the future.
You can’t do away with that “warping” this is resin and it’s nature it shrinks and expands it’s not ideal for any accurate parts or environment use or food use.
I have done so for a year for our machine parts. 0.1mm will work too.
It looks like there's enough of that screw left to get a set of vice grips on it and break it free.
Question for anyone out there…
I’ve got a project I’m starting that uses old resin bottles (look like the perfect size). However I don’t yet have a resin printer, someday I hope, and therefore no desire to buy bottles just for the bottles themselves… can anyone shoot me the size specs for any brand/bottle size? I need the brand, diameter, and height…
Thanks in advance for any assistance
You never once showed the actual contact surface from any of your tests. I know we're on the internet and I should implicitly trust you but I'd still like to see it myself since this is visual content :)
8:22
I guess this is where SLA is better than MSLA. You don´t have a peel force and thus no distortion in your parts.
how about your massive magneto statue ?
Use a soldering iron to heat the bolt and remove it with pliers….
Make mini ps5
For showpiece with controller
Should be in all slicers by default.
I'm using this method to 3d printing dice for my customers. I previously did some research about how to maintain the exact geometric shape of each die (D6, D12, D20, etc.) and I found this video from @Rybonator that helped me A LOT! Those continuous supports you mentioned, in dice printing they are called "fin supports".
ruclips.net/video/cG1zigTs0-k/видео.html&ab_channel=Rybonator
No thanks. I get better supports from the stock ones in chitubox on my Saturn 2. Plus why are custom settings a thing with resin printers these days?
Say 'support' again, I dare you! 😎😎
Hey Uncle Jessy. I know you're really into comic culture - maybe we can collab on something? I'm a prop maker and would like to return the favor from your tutorial videos helping me get my small business started.
I'll better use paid or cracked Materialise Magics instead of lychee's subscription "pro" crap.
where is neptune 4 video?????
This seems completely pointless. You still end up needing to do the exact same amount of cleanup regardless. Absolutely worthless.
where is neptune 4 video?????