People like Aseop Rock, Cage, EL-P, Evidence, Slug, Eminem, R.A. The Rugged Man, Vinnie Paz, Brother Ali, Red Pill, Eyedea, and Despot have made me not at ALL weary of white rappers, I see a rapper and I gotta hear them to judge them
+David Rowe All amazing artists, but notice how all of them except for Eminem are underground artists, aside from Em, there aren't that many dope white mainstream artists right now
Attempting to school everyone, Myke writes the checks on here lol no Myke no show. So they always will differ to him as the most unique valued opinion.
The one thing I do ignore are videos that say 'white boy kills it in a freestyle' or 'white boy kills a 16' if you are using your race to A. market yourself B. have it as an excuse if you're average.
I'm technically "white", and this is definitely true. If it's a white rapper, I automatically judge them harsher than a black rapper, or hip hop artist. Then if the white artist is extremely talented and the real deal, it's cool, but yes they definitely get judged harsher. White hip hop artists def have to fight harder to get the respect of musicians and most fans, once they get popular, it's a whole different story. Once they gain notoriety, white privilege starts kicking in full blast
+Zach Quinones - honestly, I thought Myke was saying that there are more (number-wise) white underground rappers than black underground rappers. He wasn't that clear.
Can we please get a Part 2 of this convo? Seems like we need to revisit this topic given the newfound success of white artists in mainstream hip-hop today.
White Team: Eminem, Slug, Brother Ali, Eyedea, Aesop Rock, El-P and R.A. The Rugged Man Black Team: Big L, The Notorious B.I.G., Nas, JAY Z, Andre 3000 and GZA
Zack AJ it's just his opinion. Tou could also add, cube, slick rick, redman, methodman, guru, snoop, scarface, rakim(!!!), big daddy kane, ghostface, nas, krs one, heck even kanye. His first three albums are great. But my point is, that the lost goes on and on. There will never be a clear number one and people who say that are idiots
That Black Team really dont win against the White Team but if you had this team: K-Rino, Royce da 5'9, Black Thought, KXNG Crooked, Locksmith, Cambatta. It'd be a way better battle. They both have some of the best rappers although I think Aesop Rock and Eminem (White team) & K-Rino and Black Thought (Black Team) are the standouts.
Kinge and rob were actually right here, myke is just paying attention to a specific piece of indie hip hop, which is like the left field experimental type rappers (who im also a fan of) but i dont think those are the most popular indie hip hop artists
Man, I'm really loving the dialogue that this topic is generating. This is what the culture is all about! Really hope this video spreads. Thanks for supporting it.
6:54 Gambino was the first rapper that came to mind. People go after him for that. They don't want anything outside of their preconceived notions of how a black rapper should act.
I definitely agree with the statements on Riff Raff. I always thought that. A lot of "black" people don't realize when they are being duped. A lot of these white artist/rappers use "black" people to get that pass (Eminem, Riff Raff, Miley Cyrus, Robin Thicke, Justin Timberlake). Getting the black dollar is another incentive. Do you really believe that most of these white artists truly give a damn about "black" people/urban culture?
raykak LOL. On what planet did you come up with your statement? Really? His whole "demeanor" is fabricated to me. Ever heard of a gimmick (Vanilla Ice)? The dude is a clown, a jester.
raykak Ok. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. I'm just always skeptical when certain artists appear on the scene and claim "to be down" with urban culture (Miley Cyrus). They always seem to try way too hard.
I agree not to sound rude black people need to know their history how white people did things steal and kill and what u are saying is the truth.Years to come it's not going to be no black american entertainers.
Yo, it’s been a loooong ass time since I saw this video. These type of conversations are so necessary and needed; back in 2012, 1998 and 2020. Mykes analysis is on point, almost sociological. He understands the "commercial" aspect just as good as the racial dynamics that come into play. Childish Gambino got clowned (or even still is to some extent) for being middle-class, educated and quote on quote "white". Being a white Rapper really comes down to either being a "dope MC, that happens to be white" (Eminem, EL-P, Atmosphere) or a "white rapper" that overstimulates certain aspects of Black culture and by that is looked at as being corny, racist and/or exploitative and ignorant. Shoutout to DEHH for having these convos. Since a decade too! Peace
em didnt actually win the freestyle olympics he came second dre heard of him from jimmy iovine and jimmy heard of him from an intern at interscope who em gave his tape to at the freestyle olympics
@mykectown See Myke, u know i got mad love for you, but here you go with that "I go to Indie shows and ya'll don't, so ya'll don't know routine" I never said that i "know" more about the indie scene than you, not even once, lol! But if we're combining the TWO, black rappers are still more dominate(popular) as a whole in hip hop.
It doesn't matter 'how many', we're talking about quantity. wikipedia /wiki/List_of_best-selling_hip_hop_albums_in_the_United_States I spot 3 white artists (Vanilla Ice hardly counts), Macklemore isn't even there, he's only moved about 1m copies. All I'm saying is that other than Eminem, white rappers don't sell the same way black rappers do.
I completely agreed with the point the fella in the striped shirt was trying to make & that's if a white rapper is dope, people are VERY quick to realise as, lets be honest, it IS a rare occasion, and that's coming from a white female. However, there's Lord knows how many dope black rappers that aren't getting the shine they deserve right now because hip hop IS definitely still, and always will be, dominated by black artists (naturally, as its creators) so a black artist trying to break through
I'd say MGK isn't really one of these white ''happy rappers.'' He has some party songs but if you listen to his albums, it shows he's more gritty and dark than Mac Miller and Macklemore.
Still love the show! Half the time I don't know the artists you're talking about but I'm always entertained by the reviews, and afterwards I tend to browse youtube and discover some of the music you reviewed. Keep up the good work.
@mnetters The discussion wasn't "Are Myke's favorite rappers white?" or "Was Myke's favorite albums of 2011 from white rappers?" It was about whether or not white rappers were dominating in terms of popularity in the underground currently. IMO, they are.
Myke was wrong here. Black rappers are still dominating hip hop by a long way overall. How many white rappers have been successful in the mainstream in the past 10 years?? I can't even name 5, and no, Yelawolf, Paul Wall and them weren't successful because they never really did that well. And the argument about "more white rappers winning in the underground" is wrong too because the only reason it seems like that is the case is because, like MM said, a lot of the "successful" white rappers in the underground have been there for 10+ years. Now, with black rappers in the underground, a lot of them are getting popular and making that transition into the mainstream, hence they are still "winning" more in the underground. Look at Asap Rocky and his crew, Kendrick Lamar & TDE, B.O.B, Meek Mill, Big KRIT, Tyler, Chief Keef etc. They were all underground at one point, but as you can see, they are the ones that are winning and making that transition, whereas, the white rappers are staying underground. That means black rappers are still dominating Hip Hop overall. Even now, the underground rappers that are making the most noise are black. Look at Tech, Hopsin, Joey Badass Troy Ave, Chance, Jon Connor etc.
I tell all my ppl out here in L.A about @deadendhiphop and we all agree you guys are great and know your stuff. Keep it up guys, much love out here in Cali
@mykectown The problem with the last bit talking about underground vs mainstream is that you can't really judge how popular people are in the underground. The idea behind underground is that the artists in underground aren't popular to begin with. Like I listen to Macklemore, Sage Francis and Brother Ali who are all white and underground, but it's hard to say whether they're making more buzz than people like One Be Lo, Blu or Fashawn
@ScottTaaff I've definitely heard that before. So thanks for co-singing that. But you may be right. Maybe it depends on where you live, but I definitely see it and I live in Georgia! A place you would definitely not expect that. But who knows, right? Anyway, thanks for the comment. Peace to the UK, man!
Myke REALLY needs to actually listen to MGK, he isn't writing all party songs...just because Wild Boy was his "blow up" song, people think thats all he is, listen to Lead You On, Dark Side of The Moon, The Return.
***** Tech is the reason I got into MGK (hostile takeover tour) and I appreciate him for his transparency, as much as I like his braggadocio tracks, I like his meaningful tracks more, like "lead you on" that track blew my fucking mind when I heard it, and being that I've been listening to everything I could find from him ever since I got put on him, I've watched him to continue to evolve and improve, for him to go from one of his earliest tracks "Hip Hop Party" to a track like the one he dropped this morning for his birthday, "Sail", I keep thinking hes reached his pinnacle and he proves me wrong, in reference to my response, I didn't expect you to actually be a person who would reply with solid points and etc, if you would be so inclined to allow me to try and give you some tracks to look up and see if your opinion doesn't sway, I'd love to, otherwise, hopefully my explanation makes it a little more clear as to why I'm defending him.
***** well I'd say "On Fire (Drug Dealer Girl Pt.2)" is a good show of story telling by him, DEFINITELY check out "Lead You On", and then his verse on " Weak Stomach" by Caskey is one of his best verses I've heard from him on a feature. Let me know what you think of whatever you check out.
@tibiasuckness And yes, Krit and Kendrick are huge artists who are underground by default (not signed to a major). Kendrick, being on two of the biggest albums of last year, definitely helped his name get out there. How many underground MCs have that opportunity? What was cut out of the conversation was that I was speaking solely about dudes who are underground by choice and want to stay there.
@charmerzoic I wasn't talking about Cage having a buzz, currently. Because, you're right. He doesn't at all. But if you're telling me El-P has no buzz right now, once again, sadly I don't think you're paying attention. El-P has plenty of buzz and when dude plays a show in NYC it sells out easy. That was the point.
You know...one thing I can say about this video...I can't believe how civil everyone is being. No one's being a dick. No one's calling names. No one's attacking anyone. I'm really surprised to see how respectful everyone is being in presenting their sides to this discussion. What happened to you guys over our break? Was y'all's New Year's resolution to not be douchebags in our comment section anymore? Weeeeeeird. But we appreciate it.
@BearSavageness And again...we were talking in terms of "outnumbering." We were talking about popularity. That may have been our fault for not making that clear at the beginning.
@ScottTaaff I don't check for Cage or JMT much anymore either. And no one is saying the music is different depending on the race. Lastly, as much as I love all the guys you named, when's the last time Oddisee or Black Milk sold out a show by themselves? And that's an honest question. Because I'm starting to wonder if this is, maybe, a regional thing.
***** thats one song. most of his songs are very serious. you can't judge an artist by one song, especially when it isn't even like most of his other songs.
Exactly, fuck that mafuck. 1 party song doesn't mean shit. Yelawolf has tons, Tech N9ne has some, Eminem has some and they still serious/best in the game.
C-Town....MGK, nor Macklemore are all fun guys. Mackelmore has a lotta depressing songs and MGK never went to college, also, he has one song, wild boy, that's a party song. VERY few others, I'm a big fan, and I can't think of any you could classify. Warning Shot maybe? Prob not. It bangs, bit bangers ain't club songs, necessarily. I like the artist side to MGK, not just the banger/happy side. Lace Up Mixtape shows that. Macklemore is a rapper who is at the top, who I think, that isn't super happy or in one of those two lanes.
@dswift I said they weren't doing much in the early 90's. In the convo I said it wasn't until 95-00 that their name got out there. And we definitely mentioned Serch and The Beastie Boys. No one is saying white rappers are anything new. I'm just saying it's easier for them to get hot in the underground right now and they're no longer looked at as an anomaly.
@PM2126 Yes, I'm aware of what you were doing. But I didn't say they were equal playing fields. But I'm talking about the top players in mainstream and underground. Then comparing the race ratio.
Ctown is wild as hell saying that out of a chocolate city. You really have to go out of your way to find majority white artists in a Black art form in a Black city.
I'm white, but i would have to say that i judge a lot of white rappers and do not give the time to appreciate their music as a would a black rapper. This is not because of any prejudices, i just automatically believe that white rappers are no good. Thanks for pointing out this mentality, which i think is quite common in many hip hop fans, and is certainly a mentality I hold. I will try to change this. p.s. keep up the good work
@TyBeast3 I still think you're missing it. We weren't talking about who is a better MC. We were talking about who is more popular in the underground. So here's an example. I saw Aesop Rock here. The show sold out in a few days and was packed wall to wall. I saw Myka 9, who anyone would say is just as popular and legendary (if not more) and there was barely anyone there. Diff venue but same promotion. That's the kinda shit I'm talking about. Not who's better black or white. See what I'm saying?
man, as an old school head from the 80's n' being still up on indie n' mainstream hip hop i would've Loved being in on this conversation...or really most of all yours anyways. like the convos n' videos guys. thanx for the realness.
This is really a great discussion! Totally have to agree with Mike when it comes to the balance on this one. I was understanding him completely the whole way through, too. But it's funny when you guys get misunderstanding of each other's answers. lol. Anyway, I think whenever I see a white rapper, his outer look determines whether I'm skeptical or not. But, when it comes to really popular underground emcees, a lot are white or non-black. At least that I've seen.
Furthermore, I think @kingemedia brought up a great point that, unfortunately, didn't actually make the video. He asked if the popularity issue could be because the face of the audience in underground hip hop has totally shifted to a majority white. I think that's a great angle to think about and consider.
Wow. Who couldn't see this happening? So, let's get this clear. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT WHITE RAPPERS ARE WRONG OR LESS TALENTED. No one here is racist. This was a topic sent in by viewer that we discussed that is, actually, something I've wondered about for a while. This is solely a discussion about does either side have an advantage over the other. Not about SHOULD black people or white people dominate. Don't be stupid and try to turn the discussion into something it's clearly not.
@Chappu112 I did say that, but I may have mispoke. I said that the popularity of white rappers is drastically beating out the popularity of black rappers in the underground. And I still stand by that. Where I may have been wrong is saying that black rappers aren't severely beating out white rappers in the mainstream. Because they are. But even if you add them together, my point of black rappers NOT dominating is still true. Especially when you consider how things were in the 90's.
I agree with Feefo's sentiment that if you're dope, generally people won't look too hard at race. If there's something iffy about the artist, they start getting picked apart and usually, if they're white, race comes up unfortunately. As far as what C-Town said around 7:50...there's so many white rappers that already do that. I'd disagree and say no one has it easy. Nailed it about the Dre cosign though. Interesting discussion, rewound a couple times and almost missed the bus lol.
And off the top of my head, I can think of staples of the underground rap scene who fit right in with Myke’s selection of the “white dominators” yet completely contradict his point: MURS (the obvious choice), Tech N9ne, 9th Wonder, Heiroglyphics, Blackalicious, Supernatural, Crooked I - all of whom are and have been popular in the underground for years - and the list truly does go on and on. Just something to think about. @Deadendhiphop
Anybody that grew up in Texas (outside of maybe Houston) with Swisha House back in the late 90s know that they were shocked when they saw that Paul Wall was White. We all thought he was Black until we finally saw what they looked like.
@Pomaori Yeah, you're right. I totally didn't think of that angle. But it's kinda funny what you said. He gets accused of being "white" because of his content. Great point.
@ModestMediaTube The really interesting part is how at around 22:45 of the video when I clearly explained myself to BOTH of you, you said the words "ok, I understand, I'm NOT disagreeing with that." But now you are? Are you sure you aren't still confused by the argument? In order for one race to dominate the ENTIRE piece, they would have to dominate both halves or be dominating MORE in one half than the other. That's NOT happening, man. I don't see how you aren't seeing that.
@FTekke I feel you, but I blame people for not paying attention to what is said and then attempting to argue an invisible point. I know that the topic may have been confusing at first, but I think we all clearly explained what we were talking about in the video. Or maybe not? Regardless, not once did anyone say white rappers were better MCs than black rappers. Anyone saying that should get slapped. Haha. But, at any rate, I just wish people would listen and comprehend rather than hear and attack
@kalilkash973 Exactly! I think a lot of people look at indie hip hop as dudes who just haven't signed a deal YET. I look at indie hip hop as dudes who are underground and stay underground. I think there's a huge difference. A lot of black artists who start off in the underground sign a deal as soon as they get the offer. Not sure why yet.
Hurray! I was hoping a video on this subject would come out! Also, no offense cuz it ain't bad and I know someone worked hard on it, but I like the old intro a lot better. Just my opinion. I don't know if anyone else agrees.
Just for reference my top 10 FAVORITE (not best) rappers (no sole producers but the rappers production is taken into account) are (in no order): - Nas - Danny Brown - Kanye West - Big L - Blu - Charizma - EL-P - Wu Tang, cant pick a favorite - MF Doom - Mobb Deep Honorable Mentions - Killer Mike - Kendrick Lamar - Tyler, The Creator - Shahmen - Outkast - A Tribe Called Quest - Ice Cube
@TheSiIentAssasin And that's the easy way we get out of the real point. By making further distinctions into what can be considered what. If you want to call it "backpacker" then fine. But that shit is still part of underground hip hop. And those dudes, to me, seem to be the ones selling out the most shows. And that is what the convo was about.
feefo was sayin real shit as well as myke c town. underground is blowin up with party style white rappers as well as every other race. give it time theres gonna be blacks, whites, hispanic, Asians ect. on mainstream rap/hiphop
When I first heard Em late night on college radio, I thought he was Puerto Rican and I was like "this dude is funny". When I saw the video for "My Name Is" I was like, "oh, he's not Puerto Rican, still funny though." A dope MC is a dope MC.
i think it has something to do with how relatable an artist is. I feel if an artists authenticity in relation to how a person grew up is there, i think people overlook skin colour. Its just the current climate of the world, black people coming out of struggling situations, seem to be connecting with a lot of people. Its also how the artist grew up and what their artists background is and how that influences their sound. If it suits whats "easy listening" (to an extent) to the public, it makes it easier to gain success.
Props to everyone at deadend on this topic/video. For the record, some of my most favoriest rappers (at the moment) happens to be armenian. No Joke. One-2 and R-Mean. Look em up if u have the time fellas.
Would you like me to list all the black rappers that sold millions? there's a reason a new up-and-coming white mc gets compared to either Eminem or Macklemore...
@TaffyRaphie I'm offended, lol. but naw i loved the old intro too, but it didnt have Feefo or Beezy in it. Plus we just wanted to bring something new and fresh for the new year. I've actually been waiting to see if anyone liked the old intro better. Respect your opinion though. I see your name in the comments often, thanks for supporting man!
@jeremykao2 Yeah, you and the guy below make great points. And I agree. Shad is DEFINITELY one of the nicest out! I just can't see why he's not getting that much attention.
Racism and stereotypes-I think it's been said before. I'm a 42-year old white woman-I've seen rap and hip hop evolve, and because it's associated with black people, white rappers have to prove themselves. I like what I like because it sounds good to me-that goes from ATCQ, to Beastie Boys, to MF Doom. Unfortunately, there's so much shit on the radio that lots of people have no idea what good music is.
![BAK Jay - Find Out (For Your Love) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/10FJO_XBCvY/mqdefault.jpg)
"Fuck you mean people like us" LMAO
Kinge sounded like he was being told santa didn't exist when Myke said black people don't dominate hip hop
Because it was wrong then and incredibly wrong now. I would love to know these white rappers dominating rap right now
People like Aseop Rock, Cage, EL-P, Evidence, Slug, Eminem, R.A. The Rugged Man, Vinnie Paz, Brother Ali, Red Pill, Eyedea, and Despot have made me not at ALL weary of white rappers, I see a rapper and I gotta hear them to judge them
+David Rowe All amazing artists, but notice how all of them except for Eminem are underground artists, aside from Em, there aren't that many dope white mainstream artists right now
Your old droog and uncommon NASA are dope too
Non Phixion too.. don't forget them lol
Brother Ali is albino right? Could be wrong but I always thought so.
Melekh you are correct. Krondon is also an albino.
Myke looking like a single mom.
ChrisSmooveSplashMan LOL!!
ChrisSmooveSplashMan hahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahaha
ChrisSmooveSplashMan How tho?
Shuhei Hisagi dude…
You rude! LMAOOOOOOO
Every dehh convo ends up with Myke schooling everyone
Not even close he so far off the mark half the time and they just don’t call him on it
@@byHexted not really. It's kinge who is off the mark a lot of the time.
He's one the most important voices in hip hop
Attempting to school everyone, Myke writes the checks on here lol no Myke no show. So they always will differ to him as the most unique valued opinion.
@@birdmanfancy9627 a year later and now he's left DEHH 😢
The one thing I do ignore are videos that say 'white boy kills it in a freestyle' or 'white boy kills a 16' if you are using your race to A. market yourself B. have it as an excuse if you're average.
Facts
I love when Myke and Kinge argue
I'm technically "white", and this is definitely true. If it's a white rapper, I automatically judge them harsher than a black rapper, or hip hop artist. Then if the white artist is extremely talented and the real deal, it's cool, but yes they definitely get judged harsher. White hip hop artists def have to fight harder to get the respect of musicians and most fans, once they get popular, it's a whole different story. Once they gain notoriety, white privilege starts kicking in full blast
That's the life of a black man. Everything is tougher!
Hylton Carboo yeah cos that’s what he said lol
Kevin Schulze 😂
Myke was pretty clear on his point, don't know why the other two were so confused about what he was saying. I think they were just deflecting.
+Zach Quinones i legit think they just agreed in the end because they knew they were wrong and didn't want myke to make them look stupid anymore HAHA
+Zach Niemeier true true lol
+Zach Quinones - honestly, I thought Myke was saying that there are more (number-wise) white underground rappers than black underground rappers. He wasn't that clear.
4 years later.... SLIM JESUS
shut the fuck up
JuaronTheMan go get a green card
I wonder what these guys' opinion on the whitest rapper I know of is. I'm talking about Drake.
i still think it's funny that he was on Degrassi.
GATSS UK drake? he's half black half white
Can we please get a Part 2 of this convo? Seems like we need to revisit this topic given the newfound success of white artists in mainstream hip-hop today.
White Team: Eminem, Slug, Brother Ali, Eyedea, Aesop Rock, El-P and R.A. The Rugged Man
Black Team: Big L, The Notorious B.I.G., Nas, JAY Z, Andre 3000 and GZA
Zack AJ it's just his opinion. Tou could also add, cube, slick rick, redman, methodman, guru, snoop, scarface, rakim(!!!), big daddy kane, ghostface, nas, krs one, heck even kanye. His first three albums are great. But my point is, that the lost goes on and on. There will never be a clear number one and people who say that are idiots
Yo I’m white, and the biggest em fan but that black team is too stracked, and their reserves are also way better. Royce Da 5’9, Pac, Method Man, AZ
That Black Team really dont win against the White Team but if you had this team: K-Rino, Royce da 5'9, Black Thought, KXNG Crooked, Locksmith, Cambatta. It'd be a way better battle. They both have some of the best rappers although I think Aesop Rock and Eminem (White team) & K-Rino and Black Thought (Black Team) are the standouts.
Kinge and rob were actually right here, myke is just paying attention to a specific piece of indie hip hop, which is like the left field experimental type rappers (who im also a fan of) but i dont think those are the most popular indie hip hop artists
Man, I'm really loving the dialogue that this topic is generating. This is what the culture is all about! Really hope this video spreads. Thanks for supporting it.
6:54 Gambino was the first rapper that came to mind. People go after him for that. They don't want anything outside of their preconceived notions of how a black rapper should act.
C-Town admitting Paul Wall is nice is the best part of this video.
I definitely agree with the statements on Riff Raff. I always thought that. A lot of "black" people don't realize when they are being duped. A lot of these white artist/rappers use "black" people to get that pass (Eminem, Riff Raff, Miley Cyrus, Robin Thicke, Justin Timberlake). Getting the black dollar is another incentive. Do you really believe that most of these white artists truly give a damn about "black" people/urban culture?
raykak LOL. On what planet did you come up with your statement? Really? His whole "demeanor" is fabricated to me. Ever heard of a gimmick (Vanilla Ice)? The dude is a clown, a jester.
raykak Ok. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. I'm just always skeptical when certain artists appear on the scene and claim "to be down" with urban culture (Miley Cyrus). They always seem to try way too hard.
do black artists give a fuck about black people or urban culture?
I agree not to sound rude black people need to know their history how white people did things steal and kill and what u are saying is the truth.Years to come it's not going to be no black american entertainers.
People forget about this Em, he came out with the Slim Shady EP before he met Dre for the SSLP. He changed his style before he met Dre.
Damn you're right , i guess Dre really was good just to produce him and make the black culture listen to him
j Cole did the college thing for a minute
This is classic DEHH. Haha! The ending is brilliant.
Yo, it’s been a loooong ass time since I saw this video. These type of conversations are so necessary and needed; back in 2012, 1998 and 2020. Mykes analysis is on point, almost sociological. He understands the "commercial" aspect just as good as the racial dynamics that come into play. Childish Gambino got clowned (or even still is to some extent) for being middle-class, educated and quote on quote "white". Being a white Rapper really comes down to either being a "dope MC, that happens to be white" (Eminem, EL-P, Atmosphere) or a "white rapper" that overstimulates certain aspects of Black culture and by that is looked at as being corny, racist and/or exploitative and ignorant. Shoutout to DEHH for having these convos. Since a decade too! Peace
em didnt actually win the freestyle olympics he came second dre heard of him from jimmy iovine and jimmy heard of him from an intern at interscope who em gave his tape to at the freestyle olympics
I wish this video was longer. Good shit lol
@mykectown See Myke, u know i got mad love for you, but here you go with that "I go to Indie shows and ya'll don't, so ya'll don't know routine" I never said that i "know" more about the indie scene than you, not even once, lol! But if we're combining the TWO, black rappers are still more dominate(popular) as a whole in hip hop.
It doesn't matter 'how many', we're talking about quantity.
wikipedia /wiki/List_of_best-selling_hip_hop_albums_in_the_United_States
I spot 3 white artists (Vanilla Ice hardly counts), Macklemore isn't even there, he's only moved about 1m copies. All I'm saying is that other than Eminem, white rappers don't sell the same way black rappers do.
I completely agreed with the point the fella in the striped shirt was trying to make & that's if a white rapper is dope, people are VERY quick to realise as, lets be honest, it IS a rare occasion, and that's coming from a white female. However, there's Lord knows how many dope black rappers that aren't getting the shine they deserve right now because hip hop IS definitely still, and always will be, dominated by black artists (naturally, as its creators) so a black artist trying to break through
this guys actually make this a very thought provoking topic. they expose the fact that race is less about ability, and more about expectations.
these dudes need there own radio show/ interview session. DEHH for life
My very first video I seen from DeadEndHipHop. CLASSIC!
I'd say MGK isn't really one of these white ''happy rappers.'' He has some party songs but if you listen to his albums, it shows he's more gritty and dark than Mac Miller and Macklemore.
This, for the most part, is an edified and layered discourse on hip-hop. Subbed, guys.
what Myke was saying was very clear.....they were back peddling trying to prove a point that can't be proved.
Still love the show! Half the time I don't know the artists you're talking about but I'm always entertained by the reviews, and afterwards I tend to browse youtube and discover some of the music you reviewed. Keep up the good work.
I'm white and I judge white rappers more than black rappers
@mnetters The discussion wasn't "Are Myke's favorite rappers white?" or "Was Myke's favorite albums of 2011 from white rappers?" It was about whether or not white rappers were dominating in terms of popularity in the underground currently. IMO, they are.
Myke was wrong here. Black rappers are still dominating hip hop by a long way overall. How many white rappers have been successful in the mainstream in the past 10 years?? I can't even name 5, and no, Yelawolf, Paul Wall and them weren't successful because they never really did that well.
And the argument about "more white rappers winning in the underground" is wrong too because the only reason it seems like that is the case is because, like MM said, a lot of the "successful" white rappers in the underground have been there for 10+ years. Now, with black rappers in the underground, a lot of them are getting popular and making that transition into the mainstream, hence they are still "winning" more in the underground.
Look at Asap Rocky and his crew, Kendrick Lamar & TDE, B.O.B, Meek Mill, Big KRIT, Tyler, Chief Keef etc. They were all underground at one point, but as you can see, they are the ones that are winning and making that transition, whereas, the white rappers are staying underground. That means black rappers are still dominating Hip Hop overall. Even now, the underground rappers that are making the most noise are black. Look at Tech, Hopsin, Joey Badass Troy Ave, Chance, Jon Connor etc.
I tell all my ppl out here in L.A about @deadendhiphop and we all agree you guys are great and know your stuff. Keep it up guys, much love out here in Cali
i don't understand why its still a kind of us and them type of society within hiphop...
KarteyKid1997 hip hop is competitive by nature, so there will always be a this group vs that group, it doesn't even have to be based on race
@mykectown The problem with the last bit talking about underground vs mainstream is that you can't really judge how popular people are in the underground. The idea behind underground is that the artists in underground aren't popular to begin with. Like I listen to Macklemore, Sage Francis and Brother Ali who are all white and underground, but it's hard to say whether they're making more buzz than people like One Be Lo, Blu or Fashawn
Beezy: "Yup"
^^
this was a great discussion . awesome to hear smart people debate. subscribed
myke is gonna have an aneurysm
@ScottTaaff I've definitely heard that before. So thanks for co-singing that. But you may be right. Maybe it depends on where you live, but I definitely see it and I live in Georgia! A place you would definitely not expect that. But who knows, right? Anyway, thanks for the comment. Peace to the UK, man!
Myke REALLY needs to actually listen to MGK, he isn't writing all party songs...just because Wild Boy was his "blow up" song, people think thats all he is, listen to Lead You On, Dark Side of The Moon, The Return.
***** thanks for your opinion pumpkin, don't believe I asked for it though...
***** Tech is the reason I got into MGK (hostile takeover tour) and I appreciate him for his transparency, as much as I like his braggadocio tracks, I like his meaningful tracks more, like "lead you on" that track blew my fucking mind when I heard it, and being that I've been listening to everything I could find from him ever since I got put on him, I've watched him to continue to evolve and improve, for him to go from one of his earliest tracks "Hip Hop Party" to a track like the one he dropped this morning for his birthday, "Sail", I keep thinking hes reached his pinnacle and he proves me wrong, in reference to my response, I didn't expect you to actually be a person who would reply with solid points and etc, if you would be so inclined to allow me to try and give you some tracks to look up and see if your opinion doesn't sway, I'd love to, otherwise, hopefully my explanation makes it a little more clear as to why I'm defending him.
***** well I'd say "On Fire (Drug Dealer Girl Pt.2)" is a good show of story telling by him, DEFINITELY check out "Lead You On", and then his verse on " Weak Stomach" by Caskey is one of his best verses I've heard from him on a feature. Let me know what you think of whatever you check out.
Mgk sucks
@tibiasuckness And yes, Krit and Kendrick are huge artists who are underground by default (not signed to a major). Kendrick, being on two of the biggest albums of last year, definitely helped his name get out there. How many underground MCs have that opportunity? What was cut out of the conversation was that I was speaking solely about dudes who are underground by choice and want to stay there.
rittz... to the question at 9 min.
@charmerzoic I wasn't talking about Cage having a buzz, currently. Because, you're right. He doesn't at all. But if you're telling me El-P has no buzz right now, once again, sadly I don't think you're paying attention. El-P has plenty of buzz and when dude plays a show in NYC it sells out easy. That was the point.
Why do they bother - nobody is going to win an argument with C-Town. Nobody! He was wrong through most of the video but would not admit defeat.
Coz he was right
You know...one thing I can say about this video...I can't believe how civil everyone is being. No one's being a dick. No one's calling names. No one's attacking anyone. I'm really surprised to see how respectful everyone is being in presenting their sides to this discussion. What happened to you guys over our break? Was y'all's New Year's resolution to not be douchebags in our comment section anymore? Weeeeeeird. But we appreciate it.
Lmaoo Myke said he likes Macklmore
LOLL
@BearSavageness And again...we were talking in terms of "outnumbering." We were talking about popularity. That may have been our fault for not making that clear at the beginning.
Yela sounds a bit like Eminem
@ScottTaaff I don't check for Cage or JMT much anymore either. And no one is saying the music is different depending on the race. Lastly, as much as I love all the guys you named, when's the last time Oddisee or Black Milk sold out a show by themselves? And that's an honest question. Because I'm starting to wonder if this is, maybe, a regional thing.
HOW IS MGK A PARTY HAPPY RAPPPER WTFFFFFFFF
***** LOL one song makes you a label? Fuck oughta here. Oh and songs that bang like Salute or Warning Shot, not party songs just cuz they bang.
***** thats one song. most of his songs are very serious. you can't judge an artist by one song, especially when it isn't even like most of his other songs.
Exactly, fuck that mafuck. 1 party song doesn't mean shit. Yelawolf has tons, Tech N9ne has some, Eminem has some and they still serious/best in the game.
The beat in the intro is a Capital STEEZ beat.. respect!
C-Town....MGK, nor Macklemore are all fun guys. Mackelmore has a lotta depressing songs and MGK never went to college, also, he has one song, wild boy, that's a party song. VERY few others, I'm a big fan, and I can't think of any you could classify. Warning Shot maybe? Prob not. It bangs, bit bangers ain't club songs, necessarily. I like the artist side to MGK, not just the banger/happy side. Lace Up Mixtape shows that. Macklemore is a rapper who is at the top, who I think, that isn't super happy or in one of those two lanes.
all The big hits of macklemore are fun songs.
Arty Tibo Yes, but they aren't party/college songs.
+Arty Tibo this video was made way before thrift shop and stuff blew up though, macklemore was an underground artist for many years
@dswift I said they weren't doing much in the early 90's. In the convo I said it wasn't until 95-00 that their name got out there. And we definitely mentioned Serch and The Beastie Boys. No one is saying white rappers are anything new. I'm just saying it's easier for them to get hot in the underground right now and they're no longer looked at as an anomaly.
@PM2126 Yes, I'm aware of what you were doing. But I didn't say they were equal playing fields. But I'm talking about the top players in mainstream and underground. Then comparing the race ratio.
Eminem has changed the game forever. its possible for a white rapper to make it big because em did it bigger than anyone ever has white or black.
Ctown is wild as hell saying that out of a chocolate city. You really have to go out of your way to find majority white artists in a Black art form in a Black city.
I'm white, but i would have to say that i judge a lot of white rappers and do not give the time to appreciate their music as a would a black rapper. This is not because of any prejudices, i just automatically believe that white rappers are no good. Thanks for pointing out this mentality, which i think is quite common in many hip hop fans, and is certainly a mentality I hold. I will try to change this.
p.s. keep up the good work
@TyBeast3 I still think you're missing it. We weren't talking about who is a better MC. We were talking about who is more popular in the underground. So here's an example. I saw Aesop Rock here. The show sold out in a few days and was packed wall to wall. I saw Myka 9, who anyone would say is just as popular and legendary (if not more) and there was barely anyone there. Diff venue but same promotion. That's the kinda shit I'm talking about. Not who's better black or white. See what I'm saying?
Man I totally forgot about Young Black Teenagers. Mike C def brought it back for me.
man, as an old school head from the 80's n' being still up on indie n' mainstream hip hop i would've Loved being in on this conversation...or really most of all yours anyways. like the convos n' videos guys. thanx for the realness.
This is really a great discussion! Totally have to agree with Mike when it comes to the balance on this one. I was understanding him completely the whole way through, too. But it's funny when you guys get misunderstanding of each other's answers. lol. Anyway, I think whenever I see a white rapper, his outer look determines whether I'm skeptical or not. But, when it comes to really popular underground emcees, a lot are white or non-black. At least that I've seen.
J cole is a mainstream rapper and he talks alot about college in his songs he has alot of variety
Furthermore, I think @kingemedia brought up a great point that, unfortunately, didn't actually make the video. He asked if the popularity issue could be because the face of the audience in underground hip hop has totally shifted to a majority white. I think that's a great angle to think about and consider.
@mafiaboy28 That was while he was coming up. He's got it a little easier now. Especially with his niche.
Wow. Who couldn't see this happening? So, let's get this clear. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT WHITE RAPPERS ARE WRONG OR LESS TALENTED. No one here is racist. This was a topic sent in by viewer that we discussed that is, actually, something I've wondered about for a while. This is solely a discussion about does either side have an advantage over the other. Not about SHOULD black people or white people dominate. Don't be stupid and try to turn the discussion into something it's clearly not.
@Chappu112 I did say that, but I may have mispoke. I said that the popularity of white rappers is drastically beating out the popularity of black rappers in the underground. And I still stand by that. Where I may have been wrong is saying that black rappers aren't severely beating out white rappers in the mainstream. Because they are. But even if you add them together, my point of black rappers NOT dominating is still true. Especially when you consider how things were in the 90's.
@Maplehhh Agreed. Not sure that I'm super happy about that shift, but it's definitely there.
I agree with Feefo's sentiment that if you're dope, generally people won't look too hard at race. If there's something iffy about the artist, they start getting picked apart and usually, if they're white, race comes up unfortunately. As far as what C-Town said around 7:50...there's so many white rappers that already do that. I'd disagree and say no one has it easy. Nailed it about the Dre cosign though. Interesting discussion, rewound a couple times and almost missed the bus lol.
And off the top of my head, I can think of staples of the underground rap scene who fit right in with Myke’s selection of the “white dominators” yet completely contradict his point: MURS (the obvious choice), Tech N9ne, 9th Wonder, Heiroglyphics, Blackalicious, Supernatural, Crooked I - all of whom are and have been popular in the underground for years - and the list truly does go on and on. Just something to think about. @Deadendhiphop
@dswift All good homie. Keep the conversation going. That's the point of these discussions is to have an open forum.
Anybody that grew up in Texas (outside of maybe Houston) with Swisha House back in the late 90s know that they were shocked when they saw that Paul Wall was White. We all thought he was Black until we finally saw what they looked like.
@Pomaori Yeah, you're right. I totally didn't think of that angle. But it's kinda funny what you said. He gets accused of being "white" because of his content. Great point.
@ModestMediaTube The really interesting part is how at around 22:45 of the video when I clearly explained myself to BOTH of you, you said the words "ok, I understand, I'm NOT disagreeing with that." But now you are? Are you sure you aren't still confused by the argument? In order for one race to dominate the ENTIRE piece, they would have to dominate both halves or be dominating MORE in one half than the other. That's NOT happening, man. I don't see how you aren't seeing that.
@FTekke I feel you, but I blame people for not paying attention to what is said and then attempting to argue an invisible point. I know that the topic may have been confusing at first, but I think we all clearly explained what we were talking about in the video. Or maybe not? Regardless, not once did anyone say white rappers were better MCs than black rappers. Anyone saying that should get slapped. Haha. But, at any rate, I just wish people would listen and comprehend rather than hear and attack
@kalilkash973 Exactly! I think a lot of people look at indie hip hop as dudes who just haven't signed a deal YET. I look at indie hip hop as dudes who are underground and stay underground. I think there's a huge difference. A lot of black artists who start off in the underground sign a deal as soon as they get the offer. Not sure why yet.
Hurray! I was hoping a video on this subject would come out!
Also, no offense cuz it ain't bad and I know someone worked hard on it, but I like the old intro a lot better. Just my opinion. I don't know if anyone else agrees.
Just for reference my top 10 FAVORITE (not best) rappers (no sole producers but the rappers production is taken into account) are (in no order):
- Nas
- Danny Brown
- Kanye West
- Big L
- Blu
- Charizma
- EL-P
- Wu Tang, cant pick a favorite
- MF Doom
- Mobb Deep
Honorable Mentions
- Killer Mike
- Kendrick Lamar
- Tyler, The Creator
- Shahmen
- Outkast
- A Tribe Called Quest
- Ice Cube
Thesaurus, illmaculate, qwel, noka only, Johnny blaze, Vinnie paz, esoteric, adeem, iron Solomon,Mac lethal, okwerdz, copywrite, eyedea, dirtbag dan, kap kallous, jaze juce, Frankie wapps etc.
@TheSiIentAssasin And that's the easy way we get out of the real point. By making further distinctions into what can be considered what. If you want to call it "backpacker" then fine. But that shit is still part of underground hip hop. And those dudes, to me, seem to be the ones selling out the most shows. And that is what the convo was about.
@Malkdeeznutz13 Thanks for watching and commenting. Appreciate the support.
feefo was sayin real shit as well as myke c town. underground is blowin up with party style white rappers as well as every other race. give it time theres gonna be blacks, whites, hispanic, Asians ect. on mainstream rap/hiphop
When I first heard Em late night on college radio, I thought he was Puerto Rican and I was like "this dude is funny". When I saw the video for "My Name Is" I was like, "oh, he's not Puerto Rican, still funny though." A dope MC is a dope MC.
Love the Otis Redding shirt!!
i think it has something to do with how relatable an artist is. I feel if an artists authenticity in relation to how a person grew up is there, i think people overlook skin colour. Its just the current climate of the world, black people coming out of struggling situations, seem to be connecting with a lot of people. Its also how the artist grew up and what their artists background is and how that influences their sound. If it suits whats "easy listening" (to an extent) to the public, it makes it easier to gain success.
Props to everyone at deadend on this topic/video.
For the record, some of my most favoriest rappers (at the moment) happens to be armenian. No Joke.
One-2 and R-Mean. Look em up if u have the time fellas.
Would you like me to list all the black rappers that sold millions? there's a reason a new up-and-coming white mc gets compared to either Eminem or Macklemore...
@LamarTaylor2k12 Maybe it's a regional thing. But I've also been to indie shows in SC, NY and NJ. It seemed the same.
@TaffyRaphie I'm offended, lol. but naw i loved the old intro too, but it didnt have Feefo or Beezy in it. Plus we just wanted to bring something new and fresh for the new year. I've actually been waiting to see if anyone liked the old intro better. Respect your opinion though. I see your name in the comments often, thanks for supporting man!
@jeremykao2 Yeah, you and the guy below make great points. And I agree. Shad is DEFINITELY one of the nicest out! I just can't see why he's not getting that much attention.
Racism and stereotypes-I think it's been said before. I'm a 42-year old white woman-I've seen rap and hip hop evolve, and because it's associated with black people, white rappers have to prove themselves. I like what I like because it sounds good to me-that goes from ATCQ, to Beastie Boys, to MF Doom. Unfortunately, there's so much shit on the radio that lots of people have no idea what good music is.
I would love to see a part 2 of this discussion, maybe come in with actual lists of emcees.
Beezy had me dead at 11:13 where hes like hello my name is idk that shit was so funny to me
@mykectown I just used that as an example to show that popularity in a smaller field doesn't equate to equal popularity in another
a white rapper who isn't stuck in that mold i can only think of is a guy from the UK called Devlin, check him out he's actually pretty good!
Action Bronson, Brother Ali, Slug, El-P, RA, Cage, Qwel, Aesop Rock, Vinnie Paz, Apathy, Eyedea, Kno, Sadistik, Term, Sage, Esoteric, Necro, Copywrite, Iron Solomon, Celph
sdghv lvhgngv Term's a 'rican.