Man I'm glad I saved these videos. I've been working on making fishing lure molds on my Shapeoko in 6061 aluminum. I referenced these videos a lot in the process and finally have a good working mold.
Neat stuff! I just started experimenting with the micro mills, too. I'm kind of surprised they are as resilient as they are. I even ran a .03125" (1/32") through some #6 stainless screws to make a screwdriver slot and didn't break a single tool. Well, aside from accidentally touching one with the wrench when I tightened it up in the collet. I haven't tried my .01562" (1/64") mills yet. They come with a protective cover over the flutes inside the protective tubes. :D
That is very nice. I have been machining with micro bits all my life. I work in the jewelry industry making injection molds. Class rings, Championship rings, Coining dies, etc. The other day I had to make a .003" 30-degree tool to cut lettering into a steel block for a coin. I am impressed you were able to machine with the .03" tool and not break it for it is your first time. The .01 and smaller get a little trickier.
Smallest end mills I have worked with is 0.01" making screwdriver recesses in magnesium screws. At least once I managed to break the cutter just putting it into the machine. I've done a bit of drilling through circuit boards with 0.2mm drill bits, luckily the bits held up fine.
Thanks for showing set up difficulties! these channels that cut all the problems out of the video are difficult for me to watch, like, get real! awesome video, subscribed!
I currently work in a shop that manufactures parts for pace makers. I never knocked runout out of tools until starting this job. It is a MUST when using small diameter tooling. I would recommend checking the runout on the cutting edge as close to the end of the tool though. It is possible to have runout on the cutting edges and none on the shank near the collet. Also, you should be finding the high point of the tool before checking the runout. If you are off center, you will not get an accurate measurement
Awesome video, very insightful! I'm a sculptor looking to automate and increase production on a diy budget. Would it be possible to use 3d printed molds and silicone molds inside a simple metal shell for injection molding? What would some potential issues be?
Great Video! I'm sure the tech has come a LONG way since then! That indicator gauge looks like it's jumping on the fluted portion of the bit. Maybe measuring from the shank would be better? I hope I own a CNC machine sometime soon; Thank you for making such a detailed walk along👍
When you adjust your indicator arm and set it against the part you arm measuring give the indicator arm a little tap with your finger nail, it'll release the mechanical tension in the arm and stabalise the indicator. Also I think somebody already mentioned exhaust runners for over pressure but these generally aren't used in modern injection moulding since the pressure is used to eliminate shrinkage whilst the plastic solidifies, it is the pressure that needs to be accurately controlled.
Remember that the tolerance for a LEGO brick moulds is 5 micron( they aim for 2 microns) and when moulding the temperature in the metal can't varies more than 0.5C (32.9F)
I think you mixed up relative and absolute temperatures. Absolute 0.5°C resemble 32.9°F, but a temperature difference of 0.5°C (which is the same as 0.5K) resembles a difference of 0.9°F. It all has to do with the fact that both skales have a different zero point (0°C = 32°F and 0°F = -17.8°C).
Very nice. Our company is building a custom plastic injection machine that will be using aluminum inserts similar to that size as well. the harder task is locating and incorporating ejector pins and their positions. Looking forward to seeing more!
@know your enemy, have you been able already to produce the mold? you can add my skype: kenneth.mungu I work for a mold manufacturer here in China. www.bestmold.cn
John you were asking about the slop in the 10,000 indicator on your final end mill. I've seen this when the spindle bearings heat up and you get a tiny amount of bearing expansion which will cause some bearing runout. But I'm old school so what do I know. When I started they still had tape NC machines.
Awesome. Concerning the jump when you were checking the run-out, my guess is the spindle bearings have a worn/flat spot, or it could be just a manufacturing defect on the tool that you were checking. To double check I would put a dowel pin in and mark the area on the spindle where the jump is, take the tool holder out, rotate it check again and see if it repeats in the same spot on the spindle. No matter what orientation the tool is when inserted into the spindle.
If you don't line up your indicator with the needle 90 degrees to the line made by the center of your tool and the center of the ball on the indicator, you can get some wildly varying results. Try just moving the indicator laterally around a little and you can see how much effect it has.
awsome love your excitement in the work and products you produce. amazing the tolerances you can achieve with a machine that inexpensive. you make it look so easy.
Runner is the term you were looking for what you called 'flow slots', and where the plastic goes from the runner to the cavity area is called the gate.
good job on such a small moldt and the filming was incredible. next time you do a mold make an air evacuation pocket, also when you do a contour you can start on a corner so you don't have that line in the middle. can't wait to see what you can do with the haas.
John, this is not a mold by itself, but it is a part of the mold, where we injection molders say core & cavity. The cross in between (you made here)is where the molten plastic flows, is called runner. and there is no sprue & sprue bushing where the hot plastic is injected. The runner should not be more than the half of the molded plastic part. So when I say it is part of the mold is because it is missing few items like, water inlets and outlets for cooling hot plastic, sprue bushing for machine to inject and also I see that there are no ejector pins to eject the part from the cavities after the cycle is completed There is no injection machine in the world where the material is injected from the side. But if it is a Blow molding then YES. The Blow molding terminology is totally different than Injection Molding. We never use aluminium for long production runs as Aluminium is a soft material, the closest possible material is 4140 or tool steel. Maybe they made this for prototype or a small production run like 5-10k shots. Whereas we calculate for a production run like minimum 100k. Can you please check with your customer if i am correct ? Will appreciate your efforts.
It is indeed the mold - one half of the entire mold. It is not an insert, and there is no frame. no water lines are needed, not sprue bushings, as the plastic flow is entirely parallel to the parting line. He didn't mention blow molding because this is INJECTION molding. It is also an aluminum mold for prototyping - it is not a production mold (though the customer may use it to produce small runs of items for the small LEGO customizer market).
That was cool. We use injection molding where I work. I'm interested in seeing the finish on the finished product. Keep on trying new things. Push the envelope.
Fun to see your excitement about this part. It's cool to see a project like this come together. I do hope that part works out for your client. Ummm... the bazooka is awful close to the end of the part. I'd be worried about that thin wall bending. This might be OK for injecting wax at low pressure, but might cause some heartache with higher pressure materials. It might also become a liability during long term use. It's so thin I'd be worried about knocking it and somehow bending it. I wonder if the holes were there for alignment - did you ream them to size ?
If you want to try another injection mold, please let me know since that is what I specialize in. We normally use tapered ball end mills with 1mm, 0.5mm, 0.25mm, and 0.1mm ball diameters. the tapered end mills are typically better since they are more rigid (less deflection) than a ball or square end mill. also the tiny end mills need to be turning around 12-16k in well balanced tool holders to reduce chatter. The roughing end mills depend entirely on the shape and size of the required cavity but i can give you some pointers on that sort of thing. Lastly, a cavity like the one you made in this video would actually be cleaner and pretextured with a sinker EDM. You'd need to first mill out the electrode in carbon or copper then mount the electrode in the EDM and let it spark away until the cavity is fully formed. If you're ever in SoCal please feel free to hit me up and i'd be happy to show you how we do things. (its not as pretty as your shop but it gets the job done) -Sean Tera Engineering Co.
From my perspective it looks like the jumping in the needle is because you are indicating on the ground surface. Does it jump like this when you indicate the shank?
I work for an injection molding company, doing a lot of mold designs. I always try to center the parts in the tool. The end of the rocket launcher is way too close to the edge. If any material or dirt gets caught there, that thin wall is going to collapse, very easily. Keep that in mind, if you ever do this again.
A couple of things might be messing with your indicator readings. First you rotated the spindle in both directions. Not sure what the precision of the Tormach 10K spindle is, but best to keep the bearings going one way. You might want to see what the runout on the raw spindle is, and what happens when you move it by hand. Another thing is to mount your indicator to the head not the table. Depending on how you lean in to rotate the spindle, especially with a camera in there, too, there could be some table movement. Also you are measuring on the tapered portion of the tool. That area is not critical so the grind tolerance will not be as fine as the shank and the flutes, which need to be precise to each other. Wait until you get an electronic gauging head and meter setup, your dog walking by will cause the needle to move. ;)
Rambozo Clown spindle temp would also be a factor ref runout . E.g. Bearing clearance would not be optimal . Not sure if a Tormach 10k spindle would need a warm up routine . Stuart
KINDA WHAT i WAS THINKING. Way too much room for error readings. ball guage tip falling into cut flutes of mill bit etc. all along I was thinking, on a ball nose, do the guaging right at cut tip. with understanding there would be tooth to factor. of course, with understanding that ALL these guys are much MUCH more knowledgable than myself in this!
Ain't it just great working with tiny tools?.. i just came from the shop, Milling a 1.6 mm (1/16" -ish) hole, 4mm deep, with a 1 mm endmill (5/128"-ish).. 20.000 RPM, 100mm feed.. oh yeah.. in Titanium, i saw your vid about machining Titanium the other day.. you guys do great work, and that Tormach PCNC 440 looks like a "more than half decent" machine... I'm considering buying one in the future.. Keep up the good work!
That's a great job done in fusion 360 , please make a video of software generated CAM program insertation in machine (VMC) and tools selection ( end mills)
the shut-off Surface by the rocket launcher needs to be larger because the molding pressure can easily push that out the plastic floating is called the runner the entrance to the park is called the gate I don't know how you programmed it would try to leave the park a dress shirt so that way you can get a really nice finish heart
How much stock to leave did you have before the last pass? I'd imagine .001-.002? For the future on the sprue path that you had trouble cutting at full depth, try running the closest size ballnose through and then finish pass with your 3/8". For instance, run a .3125 or 8MM through the slot and leave .030 on the bottom, then you're taking roughly 30 thou off all edges with your final pass but at a much lower chip load.
You can probably even use a semi rigid CNC router for such fine engraving, even in steel. I can't imagine a 40 taper spindle with a 20hp motor being optimal with a 1/32 end mill...
What's the spec on tne milling cutters are you using? I've never got anything below 1.5mm [ 1/16th] to not snap as soon as it touched metal even at really slow speeds and minute cut depths.
John, how do you remove the left over stock that you had to keep on the part for work holding? Just flip it over in the vice and mill it off? BTW, with the help of your videos, I finally made my first CNC'd part tonight! Just a simple 14 gauge sheet metal bracket cut out on a water jet, but it still felt pretty awesome to see it go from a blank Solidworks document, to HSMWorks, then from the stock to my final part.
Great Video! I just have a question a little off topic. We just got an old CNC machine back up and running after 3 years fo the previous manager not using it. I am new to the area (Ohio) and was wondering where do you get your stock metal from? Let me know and thank you!
I am an injection molder, and mold maker......any mold will have a split line no matter what. The idea is to make it as little as possible, and or hide it in the geometry of the part. Scalloping in molds is the best way, but when you are done cutting the mold, you polish the surfaces to allow an easier ejection of the part.
Probably a dumb question , but how do he rerun the operation on th pencil slot at 5:53 where he adjusted the stock to leave ? Did he rerun the post out of fusion and reload onto pathpilot ?
Looks great but everything in the mould has a 0.4mm radius minimum, using that last tool, but in the CAD you had sharp edges how is that normally acheived?
It's not normally achieved at all. Adding all the inside radii on a really complex mold half will frequently bog down the CAD workstation to such a degree that you just plan for the radii to be there based on the size of the tool that you'll be cutting with.
That is so cool i am learning all i can think about this what if you made that mold the positive opposite out of something real hard then punch it into red hot steal i think my IRISH friend called it nibing then one mill operation lots of steal molds thanks for sharing from john in Texas all the best
Real hard like what? Cubic Boron Nitride? That would be interesting to machine ;) The way this is done is by making a blank from copper (or graphite) and using EDM (electro discharge machining) to erode the feature out of the steel.
Amazing video! I wanted to know if you take on customer orders on a regular basis. I need to get a aluminum mold made for something smaller than the toy you just made. Has to do with the fishing industry. If so, how can I get a hold of you?
Just curious what a project like that cost, its a 2 part and you had to cad it up. I know it seems no one wants to talk numbers but reality is what does a 2 part mold of that size and detail cost to have done?
USUALLY - Injection Mold Dies made from Steel for conventional Machines start at around 100.000€ and go up to 500.000€ I am sure though that these aluminium ones are around 1/10th of that cost (Polymer Calculations, Mold Design, CAM and Machining)
Nowhere near that much for this complexity of mold. 100000 would be for a large, complex mold, something like a TV enclosure, set up for making 100s of thousands of pieces. A mold like this is not normally used in production since it has no ejection features, so the part has to be extracted manually each time. You can cost out the US pricing for (medium-volume) aluminium molds at Protolabs. I'd guess around $2000-4000 for a mold of this size and complexity (with ejection features).
The answer to shorter run or rapid tooling is some of the cast-able ceramics available like Ceramacast 900 or Cotronics Rescor 750 - google these names. Make a nice aluminum mold block with cavity then simply use an original part and make a casting around it. Keep cavity size small so you do not need to use too much of the cast-able ceramics as this stuff is pricey. then use an open shell aluminum mold for the top so you can pour the liquid ceramics over your part to finish it. Then top it off with high temp concrete like for a kiln, then an aluminum plate. What you end up with is a mold you can use hundreds of times, even thousands of times and you can then just rebuild the mold as needed. Of course there is a lot involved if your going to do it right but it works. These cast-able ceramics can be baked and cured like any other ceramic and can take pressure and heat over 3000 degrees. Another option is high temp silicone like Mold Max 60 from smooth-on that can take temps up to 560 degrees. This stuff can be used to cast tin and pewter so if you use the lower temp/pressure plastics you may be able to injection mold directly into it. Liquid silicone can be poured around almost any part and it will reproduce exact detail. Molds made with it would probably make quit a few parts. Worth a try before you drop 3 to 5k on a machined mold.
Couple things I'd say, might have been said already, but my .02¢ .. I think you'd be surprised if you put on empty EM holder in the spindle with a typical AGD .001 indicator and checked how far you could move your spindle by hand. Not with a hammer or any other shock, just by hand, pushing and pulling. Second, I believe the 'slop' in your indicator is likely the backlash in the fine adjustment screws, simply. Yep, they have backlash too, just like every other screw in the world, lol. Lastly, molds generally are left with all sharp corners to prevent flash, and the 4 holes are usually ream/ bored to -.001 on the A-side (top) and +.001 on the B-side (bottom) or done oversized on Alum and bushed with hardened bushings, and the A-side has hardened dowels pressed in, to prevent galling with the constant opening and closing. At any rate, rather new sub here, like most everything I've seen on your channel man. Been in the biz close to 30 years, but have stayed open minded and am constantly adapting, as we all should be. Nice to see the younger maker movement make its way into machine shops and keeping it going. I'm a Journeyman, but the next generation, you included IMHO, doesn't seen to be as interested in that, but are learning as you go and getting better with each and every job I can imagine! Keep up the good work and vids, thanks!
Comments about backlash related to the flat bottom EM, not the ball. The jumpy reading on the ball would likely be attributed to the spindle bearings, tho possibly a loose dovetail, chips or a lead into the grind of the tool. Also, the gates are normally flat bottom, just generally speaking, instead of contoured. Again, great looking little mold my man!
I know this is far fetched, but I don't like looking for mold makers for my product I have designed. So far after seeing your video it looks pretty damn good! How much do you normally charge to make a mold out of aluminium? Ruffly the size is 6.5 x 11.5.
Hey John you scrapped the Part!!! (maybe) Don't ad a chamfer where the mold channel goes out of the mold, that is where a nozzle will inject the material into the mold. The nozzle will most likely be flat so now the plastic seeps out where the chamfer is. You can fix it by milling out the chamfer as wide as the nozzle diameter is. Been making molds, did that mistake once or twice ;)
quick note on tool runout. most mill spindles are requires to be under .0002 total runout measured at the taper. the only way I have seen near spindle spec runout conserved when measured at the tool involves shrink fit tool holders. 5 tenth tir aint no thing man.
Out on a limb The initial run from the nozzle is called the ‘Sprue’. The branches are called ‘Runners’. The small ‘slot’ where the plastic finally flows along the runners and into the mould cavity is called the ‘Gate’.
Would a typical CNC router 2.2kw water cooled spindle style wood router be able to make something like this, say injection mold for sinkers, soft plastic lures, etc. Ones I am thinking of are usually 200 steps per revolution stepper with 5mm pitch on the ballscrews, so 0.025mm potential accuracy +- the losses for rigidity.
We run two CNC routers, 15 hp water cooled & 12 hp air cooled. Both run all day. I can't see any advantage to the water cooled one, and several disadvantages. For small parts steppers are probably fine & a lot cheaper than servos. For the accuracy required for a lure there are a lot cheaper ways to get there than CNC. The fish won't care.
Pilch Plays the mold blocks are put into a steel frame in the injection machine and the whole thing is hydraulically clamped together. The aluminum walls won't be going anywhere.
These are a bit close, I agree, but I've cut over 300 small molds like this with never a blowout. The only real issue is the reduced clamping force near the edges of the mold (most mini injectors use a round plate on the clamping cylinder) , and this guy will tend to flash is the plastic gets too hot.
Hello, I'm totally new to CNC and would to like to learn how to make thing like that on CNC. Could you tell me please where should I start? I was trying to find any CNC classes in my area but looks like the closest one is in another state :(
That's some really nice machining, but I'm a bit surprised you can make injection dies out of aluminum. This isn't my area, but I'd always thought you had to use things like tool steel to keep the erosion down to something manageable. Maybe this is for a fairly short part run?
I used to think that as well, but turns out that aluminium is perfectly good for low-run (well, say up to 10,000 parts!) production. There's a little bit of blurb about this here - www.protolabs.co.uk/injection-molding/plastic-injection-molding/. For REAL production, you'd definitely want to use steel dies.
l wilton - You can use the aluminum mold to "bootstrap" yourself to a more rugged material. You cast a piece (the mold positive) with this aluminum mold negative, then make another mold negative with fine-grained casting sand, and use that to make the desired pieces out of cast iron, or whatever. This way, you just re-use the mold positive to make a new mold negative with the casting sand. You can even impress the mold positive multiple times into the casting sand if you need to cast lots of the part.
This looks more like a test mold anyway, it only molds one pc. per shot, and the parts have to be manually ejected. However, for small runs aluminum works perfectly well for this. Rather than spend huge dollars on a proper mold, it isn't that uncommon to do a mold like this to test a new part.
Aluminium mounds are often used for low volume runs as they are much cheaper to machine than tool steel. Also, prototyping is frequently done using a single cavity aluminium mould to prove the part and make any final changes before committing to producing a multi cavity tool in tool steel. As for erosion issues... it’s likely that the parts will be moulded in ABS, HIPS, PP or HDPE which are not particularly aggressive and require less clamping force than if moulding GFPC or something of that nature.
Exactly. 6061 is soft, but machines easily and quickly - a critical consideration for prototyping. When spinning a 1/32" cutter, time is your enemy. Even small molds can take hours to cut the finishing passes at .001" stepover.
Hi Buddy, I am enjoying your Videos! Great Stuff... learning a lot. You posted a video where you bought a Haas. Great Machine. But this video is very impressive as well and made me curious about the Tormach. It Seems to be quite handy Machine for a reasonable cost. Off course you can recommend it but where are the limitations (in regards of the Haas). Thanks for all the time you put into you RUclips Channel and I hope I will be in a position where I can do something like that.
Cheers Mate, Thanks you for the explanation. Seeing what the machine can do I think this is what I need for the start. Especially when I compare the price of a VMC. I might have to adjust the Programs according to the machine. I am looking forward to see more videos from you. Keep up the good work and live the dream for us!
No. In most cases, it won't allow you to program a toolpath using a tool that has geometry too large for the toolpath strategy. The designer/programmer is still responsible for selecting the appropriate tool.
bbowen1970 It's an injection mold. Material exit would be a bad thing. Hot liquid plastic under high pressure makes a horrible and dangerous mess when it comes squirting out 😆
Alucinante, para hacer una pistola de plastico que vale 1€ necesitas maquinaria y herramientas por valor de 5000€, esto si que es sacarle rendimiento a las herramientas.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Man I'm glad I saved these videos. I've been working on making fishing lure molds on my Shapeoko in 6061 aluminum. I referenced these videos a lot in the process and finally have a good working mold.
Any follow up videos of the machine used for molding? Would like to see that!
They are very boring..
Neat stuff! I just started experimenting with the micro mills, too. I'm kind of surprised they are as resilient as they are. I even ran a .03125" (1/32") through some #6 stainless screws to make a screwdriver slot and didn't break a single tool. Well, aside from accidentally touching one with the wrench when I tightened it up in the collet.
I haven't tried my .01562" (1/64") mills yet. They come with a protective cover over the flutes inside the protective tubes. :D
That is very nice. I have been machining with micro bits all my life. I work in the jewelry industry making injection molds. Class rings, Championship rings, Coining dies, etc. The other day I had to make a .003" 30-degree tool to cut lettering into a steel block for a coin. I am impressed you were able to machine with the .03" tool and not break it for it is your first time. The .01 and smaller get a little trickier.
Smallest end mills I have worked with is 0.01" making screwdriver recesses in magnesium screws. At least once I managed to break the cutter just putting it into the machine. I've done a bit of drilling through circuit boards with 0.2mm drill bits, luckily the bits held up fine.
Thanks for showing set up difficulties! these channels that cut all the problems out of the video are difficult for me to watch, like, get real! awesome video, subscribed!
That is just Awesome John.................The price point is just unbeatable with your set up, that is why i am so attracted to the Tormach!
Lol, "good grief john" haha. Have fun checking your run outs on tiny tools! It made me smile. One day I'll be your competitor! Much love fam!!
I currently work in a shop that manufactures parts for pace makers. I never knocked runout out of tools until starting this job. It is a MUST when using small diameter tooling. I would recommend checking the runout on the cutting edge as close to the end of the tool though. It is possible to have runout on the cutting edges and none on the shank near the collet. Also, you should be finding the high point of the tool before checking the runout. If you are off center, you will not get an accurate measurement
Awesome video, very insightful! I'm a sculptor looking to automate and increase production on a diy budget. Would it be possible to use 3d printed molds and silicone molds inside a simple metal shell for injection molding? What would some potential issues be?
Flow spots are called the sprue, sick video man 🤙🤙
Great Video! I'm sure the tech has come a LONG way since then! That indicator gauge looks like it's jumping on the fluted portion of the bit. Maybe measuring from the shank would be better? I hope I own a CNC machine sometime soon; Thank you for making such a detailed walk along👍
When you adjust your indicator arm and set it against the part you arm measuring give the indicator arm a little tap with your finger nail, it'll release the mechanical tension in the arm and stabalise the indicator. Also I think somebody already mentioned exhaust runners for over pressure but these generally aren't used in modern injection moulding since the pressure is used to eliminate shrinkage whilst the plastic solidifies, it is the pressure that needs to be accurately controlled.
Would love to see the mold producing! would like to see the final product and whether there be any artifacts etc. GREAT VID!
Remember that the tolerance for a LEGO brick moulds is 5 micron( they aim for 2 microns) and when moulding the temperature in the metal can't varies more than 0.5C (32.9F)
I think you mixed up relative and absolute temperatures. Absolute 0.5°C resemble 32.9°F, but a temperature difference of 0.5°C (which is the same as 0.5K) resembles a difference of 0.9°F. It all has to do with the fact that both skales have a different zero point (0°C = 32°F and 0°F = -17.8°C).
This isn't a LEGO brick mold, nor is it produced for the LEGO company.
Very nice. Our company is building a custom plastic injection machine that will be using aluminum inserts similar to that size as well. the harder task is locating and incorporating ejector pins and their positions. Looking forward to seeing more!
@know your enemy, have you been able already to produce the mold? you can add my skype: kenneth.mungu I work for a mold manufacturer here in China. www.bestmold.cn
Any updates? I'm interested in a mold machine
John you were asking about the slop in the 10,000 indicator on your final end mill. I've seen this when the spindle bearings heat up and you get a tiny amount of bearing expansion which will cause some bearing runout. But I'm old school so what do I know. When I started they still had tape NC machines.
Awesome. Concerning the jump when you were checking the run-out, my guess is the spindle bearings have a worn/flat spot, or it could be just a manufacturing defect on the tool that you were checking. To double check I would put a dowel pin in and mark the area on the spindle where the jump is, take the tool holder out, rotate it check again and see if it repeats in the same spot on the spindle. No matter what orientation the tool is when inserted into the spindle.
John, consider that you may actually have a tenth or two in your spindle bearings when you're looking at that jump. Great vid, Cliff
If you don't line up your indicator with the needle 90 degrees to the line made by the center of your tool and the center of the ball on the indicator, you can get some wildly varying results. Try just moving the indicator laterally around a little and you can see how much effect it has.
I am just so happy to see this. GREAT WORK !
awsome love your excitement in the work and products you produce. amazing the tolerances you can achieve with a machine that inexpensive. you make it look so easy.
Runner is the term you were looking for what you called 'flow slots', and where the plastic goes from the runner to the cavity area is called the gate.
good job on such a small moldt and the filming was incredible. next time you do a mold make an air evacuation pocket, also when you do a contour you can start on a corner so you don't have that line in the middle. can't wait to see what you can do with the haas.
John, this is not a mold by itself, but it is a part of the mold, where we injection molders say core & cavity.
The cross in between (you made here)is where the molten plastic flows, is called runner. and there is no sprue & sprue bushing where the hot plastic is injected. The runner should not be more than the half of the molded plastic part.
So when I say it is part of the mold is because it is missing few items like, water inlets and outlets for cooling hot plastic, sprue bushing for machine to inject and also I see that there are no ejector pins to eject the part from the cavities after the cycle is completed There is no injection machine in the world where the material is injected from the side. But if it is a Blow molding then YES. The Blow molding terminology is totally different than Injection Molding.
We never use aluminium for long production runs as Aluminium is a soft material, the closest possible material is 4140 or tool steel. Maybe they made this for prototype or a small production run like 5-10k shots. Whereas we calculate for a production run like minimum 100k.
Can you please check with your customer if i am correct ? Will appreciate your efforts.
It is indeed the mold - one half of the entire mold. It is not an insert, and there is no frame. no water lines are needed, not sprue bushings, as the plastic flow is entirely parallel to the parting line. He didn't mention blow molding because this is INJECTION molding. It is also an aluminum mold for prototyping - it is not a production mold (though the customer may use it to produce small runs of items for the small LEGO customizer market).
That was cool. We use injection molding where I work. I'm interested in seeing the finish on the finished product.
Keep on trying new things. Push the envelope.
Super turtorial. Best wishes
Question: how did they make the molds for plastic injection models before the invention of CNC?
I usually press fit the dowel pins on one side of the mold so they stay in place.
Fun to see your excitement about this part. It's cool to see a project like this come together. I do hope that part works out for your client. Ummm... the bazooka is awful close to the end of the part. I'd be worried about that thin wall bending. This might be OK for injecting wax at low pressure, but might cause some heartache with higher pressure materials. It might also become a liability during long term use. It's so thin I'd be worried about knocking it and somehow bending it. I wonder if the holes were there for alignment - did you ream them to size ?
If you want to try another injection mold, please let me know since that is what I specialize in. We normally use tapered ball end mills with 1mm, 0.5mm, 0.25mm, and 0.1mm ball diameters. the tapered end mills are typically better since they are more rigid (less deflection) than a ball or square end mill. also the tiny end mills need to be turning around 12-16k in well balanced tool holders to reduce chatter.
The roughing end mills depend entirely on the shape and size of the required cavity but i can give you some pointers on that sort of thing.
Lastly, a cavity like the one you made in this video would actually be cleaner and pretextured with a sinker EDM. You'd need to first mill out the electrode in carbon or copper then mount the electrode in the EDM and let it spark away until the cavity is fully formed.
If you're ever in SoCal please feel free to hit me up and i'd be happy to show you how we do things. (its not as pretty as your shop but it gets the job done)
-Sean
Tera Engineering Co.
How much is like the cheapest costumized injection mold?
One with minimal detail
yea I hope we get to see the injection mold process, that stuff has had me intrested for a while. but never actually seen it happen.
'flow slots' are called runners or sprues. Depending on your location 😊
From my perspective it looks like the jumping in the needle is because you are indicating on the ground surface. Does it jump like this when you indicate the shank?
Dial jumps because its dry, needs a little oil like all friction on friction surfaces. Nice job.
I work for an injection molding company, doing a lot of mold designs. I always try to center the parts in the tool. The end of the rocket launcher is way too close to the edge. If any material or dirt gets caught there, that thin wall is going to collapse, very easily. Keep that in mind, if you ever do this again.
Brett Hobbs can i get a mold done like this?
I work at a tool and mold shop (been there for 7 months now) and the processes are very similar except for the programming software
A couple of things might be messing with your indicator readings. First you rotated the spindle in both directions. Not sure what the precision of the Tormach 10K spindle is, but best to keep the bearings going one way. You might want to see what the runout on the raw spindle is, and what happens when you move it by hand. Another thing is to mount your indicator to the head not the table. Depending on how you lean in to rotate the spindle, especially with a camera in there, too, there could be some table movement. Also you are measuring on the tapered portion of the tool. That area is not critical so the grind tolerance will not be as fine as the shank and the flutes, which need to be precise to each other.
Wait until you get an electronic gauging head and meter setup, your dog walking by will cause the needle to move. ;)
Rambozo Clown
spindle temp would also be a factor ref runout . E.g. Bearing clearance would not be optimal . Not sure if a Tormach 10k spindle would need a warm up routine .
Stuart
KINDA WHAT i WAS THINKING. Way too much room for error readings. ball guage tip falling into cut flutes of mill bit etc. all along I was thinking, on a ball nose, do the guaging right at cut tip. with understanding there would be tooth to factor. of course, with understanding that ALL these guys are much MUCH more knowledgable than myself in this!
If you stagger the guide pins, it's a lot easier to put the mold together because it can only be put together one way
Ain't it just great working with tiny tools?.. i just came from the shop, Milling a 1.6 mm (1/16" -ish) hole, 4mm deep, with a 1 mm endmill (5/128"-ish).. 20.000 RPM, 100mm feed.. oh yeah.. in Titanium, i saw your vid about machining Titanium the other day.. you guys do great work, and that Tormach PCNC 440 looks like a "more than half decent" machine... I'm considering buying one in the future..
Keep up the good work!
That's a great job done in fusion 360 , please make a video of software generated CAM program insertation in machine (VMC) and tools selection ( end mills)
the shut-off Surface by the rocket launcher needs to be larger because the molding pressure can easily push that out the plastic floating is called the runner the entrance to the park is called the gate I don't know how you programmed it would try to leave the park a dress shirt so that way you can get a really nice finish heart
How much stock to leave did you have before the last pass? I'd imagine .001-.002? For the future on the sprue path that you had trouble cutting at full depth, try running the closest size ballnose through and then finish pass with your 3/8". For instance, run a .3125 or 8MM through the slot and leave .030 on the bottom, then you're taking roughly 30 thou off all edges with your final pass but at a much lower chip load.
Question, why you don't using chemical polishing? It can reduce the end cost
Maybe an endmill with more flutes would help with that surface finish and maybe if you can choke up in the tool as much as you can. love the video btw
You can probably even use a semi rigid CNC router for such fine engraving, even in steel. I can't imagine a 40 taper spindle with a 20hp motor being optimal with a 1/32 end mill...
What's the spec on tne milling cutters are you using? I've never got anything below 1.5mm [ 1/16th] to not snap as soon as it touched metal even at really slow speeds and minute cut depths.
Maybe polishing the mold, that would make the casting look less rough. Pretty good work on the cnc part.
John, how do you remove the left over stock that you had to keep on the part for work holding? Just flip it over in the vice and mill it off?
BTW, with the help of your videos, I finally made my first CNC'd part tonight! Just a simple 14 gauge sheet metal bracket cut out on a water jet, but it still felt pretty awesome to see it go from a blank Solidworks document, to HSMWorks, then from the stock to my final part.
Tim Wolf yep. Just flip it and cut to requires thickness
How much would it cost to get the work done to make a mold like this?
Thank you for this valuable content
Great Video!
I just have a question a little off topic.
We just got an old CNC machine back up and running after 3 years fo the previous manager not using it.
I am new to the area (Ohio) and was wondering where do you get your stock metal from?
Let me know and thank you!
Question - why did you scallop the edge of an injection mold... wouldn't that show a seam when the two sides are combined?
I am an injection molder, and mold maker......any mold will have a split line no matter what. The idea is to make it as little as possible, and or hide it in the geometry of the part. Scalloping in molds is the best way, but when you are done cutting the mold, you polish the surfaces to allow an easier ejection of the part.
Jason Vincent is a mold maker a machinist or an engineer?
not sure if its been said yet or not, but the term for the "flow channels" or whatever is actually called "runners."
Probably a dumb question , but how do he rerun the operation on th pencil slot at 5:53 where he adjusted the stock to leave ?
Did he rerun the post out of fusion and reload onto pathpilot ?
Looks great but everything in the mould has a 0.4mm radius minimum, using that last tool, but in the CAD you had sharp edges how is that normally acheived?
It's not normally achieved at all. Adding all the inside radii on a really complex mold half will frequently bog down the CAD workstation to such a degree that you just plan for the radii to be there based on the size of the tool that you'll be cutting with.
That is so cool i am learning all i can think about this what if you made that mold the positive opposite out of something real hard then punch it into red hot steal i think my IRISH friend called it nibing then one mill operation lots of steal molds thanks for sharing from john in Texas all the best
Real hard like what? Cubic Boron Nitride? That would be interesting to machine ;)
The way this is done is by making a blank from copper (or graphite) and using EDM (electro discharge machining) to erode the feature out of the steel.
Very cool mold! Thanks for sharing!
Amazing video! I wanted to know if you take on customer orders on a regular basis. I need to get a aluminum mold made for something smaller than the toy you just made. Has to do with the fishing industry. If so, how can I get a hold of you?
Hello just wondering if you work with a lot of injection molding companies ?
Just curious what a project like that cost, its a 2 part and you had to cad it up. I know it seems no one wants to talk numbers but reality is what does a 2 part mold of that size and detail cost to have done?
Would imagine it would cost 500-1000$ for a machine shop to do it, possibly more.
USUALLY - Injection Mold Dies made from Steel for conventional Machines start at around 100.000€ and go up to 500.000€
I am sure though that these aluminium ones are around 1/10th of that cost (Polymer Calculations, Mold Design, CAM and Machining)
Nowhere near that much for this complexity of mold. 100000 would be for a large, complex mold, something like a TV enclosure, set up for making 100s of thousands of pieces. A mold like this is not normally used in production since it has no ejection features, so the part has to be extracted manually each time.
You can cost out the US pricing for (medium-volume) aluminium molds at Protolabs. I'd guess around $2000-4000 for a mold of this size and complexity (with ejection features).
The answer to shorter run or rapid tooling is some of the cast-able ceramics available like Ceramacast 900 or Cotronics Rescor 750 - google these names. Make a nice aluminum mold block with cavity then simply use an original part and make a casting around it. Keep cavity size small so you do not need to use too much of the cast-able ceramics as this stuff is pricey. then use an open shell aluminum mold for the top so you can pour the liquid ceramics over your part to finish it. Then top it off with high temp concrete like for a kiln, then an aluminum plate. What you end up with is a mold you can use hundreds of times, even thousands of times and you can then just rebuild the mold as needed. Of course there is a lot involved if your going to do it right but it works. These cast-able ceramics can be baked and cured like any other ceramic and can take pressure and heat over 3000 degrees. Another option is high temp silicone like Mold Max 60 from smooth-on that can take temps up to 560 degrees. This stuff can be used to cast tin and pewter so if you use the lower temp/pressure plastics you may be able to injection mold directly into it. Liquid silicone can be poured around almost any part and it will reproduce exact detail. Molds made with it would probably make quit a few parts. Worth a try before you drop 3 to 5k on a machined mold.
.
I often use MasterCAM CNC programming software, what software you use , tell me please ,thanks.
Is a scallop toolpath the same as a waterline?
Couple things I'd say, might have been said already, but my .02¢ .. I think you'd be surprised if you put on empty EM holder in the spindle with a typical AGD .001 indicator and checked how far you could move your spindle by hand. Not with a hammer or any other shock, just by hand, pushing and pulling. Second, I believe the 'slop' in your indicator is likely the backlash in the fine adjustment screws, simply. Yep, they have backlash too, just like every other screw in the world, lol. Lastly, molds generally are left with all sharp corners to prevent flash, and the 4 holes are usually ream/ bored to -.001 on the A-side (top) and +.001 on the B-side (bottom) or done oversized on Alum and bushed with hardened bushings, and the A-side has hardened dowels pressed in, to prevent galling with the constant opening and closing.
At any rate, rather new sub here, like most everything I've seen on your channel man. Been in the biz close to 30 years, but have stayed open minded and am constantly adapting, as we all should be. Nice to see the younger maker movement make its way into machine shops and keeping it going. I'm a Journeyman, but the next generation, you included IMHO, doesn't seen to be as interested in that, but are learning as you go and getting better with each and every job I can imagine! Keep up the good work and vids, thanks!
Comments about backlash related to the flat bottom EM, not the ball. The jumpy reading on the ball would likely be attributed to the spindle bearings, tho possibly a loose dovetail, chips or a lead into the grind of the tool. Also, the gates are normally flat bottom, just generally speaking, instead of contoured. Again, great looking little mold my man!
Now this is awesome man👍
I'd like to do something like this too but I'm toolmaker in a stamping factory
I know this is far fetched, but I don't like looking for mold makers for my product I have designed. So far after seeing your video it looks pretty damn good! How much do you normally charge to make a mold out of aluminium? Ruffly the size is 6.5 x 11.5.
Definitely exciting. One thing though injection molds are supposed to have an escape hole.
Hey John you scrapped the Part!!! (maybe) Don't ad a chamfer where the mold channel goes out of the mold, that is where a nozzle will inject the material into the mold. The nozzle will most likely be flat so now the plastic seeps out where the chamfer is. You can fix it by milling out the chamfer as wide as the nozzle diameter is. Been making molds, did that mistake once or twice ;)
Not scrapped. Easily adjusted. It is only a small chamfer in aluminum after all. Countersinking the nose is an easy fix.
quick note on tool runout. most mill spindles are requires to be under .0002 total runout measured at the taper. the only way I have seen near spindle spec runout conserved when measured at the tool involves shrink fit tool holders. 5 tenth tir aint no thing man.
REally cool! how many hours did it take?
Just for what it's worth. The "mold slot" is usually called a sprue. Just to have appropriate terminology. But it's all good.
Out on a limb The initial run from the nozzle is called the ‘Sprue’. The branches are called ‘Runners’. The small ‘slot’ where the plastic finally flows along the runners and into the mould cavity is called the ‘Gate’.
Why use ER-holders for mold making? If you don't want any run out, use hydraulic, or Mdsk from Nikken.
Look at your injection flute, you might get stress crystallization of your polymer which makes the final product brittle
Would a typical CNC router 2.2kw water cooled spindle style wood router be able to make something like this, say injection mold for sinkers, soft plastic lures, etc. Ones I am thinking of are usually 200 steps per revolution stepper with 5mm pitch on the ballscrews, so 0.025mm potential accuracy +- the losses for rigidity.
We run two CNC routers, 15 hp water cooled & 12 hp air cooled. Both run all day. I can't see any advantage to the water cooled one, and several disadvantages. For small parts steppers are probably fine & a lot cheaper than servos. For the accuracy required for a lure there are a lot cheaper ways to get there than CNC. The fish won't care.
Yep. I ran a 24K 2.2KW spindle and VFD for years. Makes these itty-bitty cavities cut a lot quicker.
Ever do forging dies?
Seems the bazooka is a little close to the edge of the mould. Would the edge of the mould buckle under the pressure?
Pilch Plays the mold blocks are put into a steel frame in the injection machine and the whole thing is hydraulically clamped together. The aluminum walls won't be going anywhere.
There is a risk that some dirt or plastic scrap may buckle the thin wall inwards (Been there, done that... ;-) )
These are a bit close, I agree, but I've cut over 300 small molds like this with never a blowout. The only real issue is the reduced clamping force near the edges of the mold (most mini injectors use a round plate on the clamping cylinder) , and this guy will tend to flash is the plastic gets too hot.
Hello, I'm totally new to CNC and would to like to learn how to make thing like that on CNC. Could you tell me please where should I start? I was trying to find any CNC classes in my area but looks like the closest one is in another state :(
NYC CNC the problem is I live in Philadelphia
Do you know the name of the molding machine your customer used?
NobleArtist AB200
That's some really nice machining, but I'm a bit surprised you can make injection dies out of aluminum. This isn't my area, but I'd always thought you had to use things like tool steel to keep the erosion down to something manageable. Maybe this is for a fairly short part run?
I used to think that as well, but turns out that aluminium is perfectly good for low-run (well, say up to 10,000 parts!) production. There's a little bit of blurb about this here - www.protolabs.co.uk/injection-molding/plastic-injection-molding/. For REAL production, you'd definitely want to use steel dies.
l wilton - You can use the aluminum mold to "bootstrap" yourself to a more rugged material. You cast a piece (the mold positive) with this aluminum mold negative, then make another mold negative with fine-grained casting sand, and use that to make the desired pieces out of cast iron, or whatever. This way, you just re-use the mold positive to make a new mold negative with the casting sand. You can even impress the mold positive multiple times into the casting sand if you need to cast lots of the part.
This looks more like a test mold anyway, it only molds one pc. per shot, and the parts have to be manually ejected. However, for small runs aluminum works perfectly well for this. Rather than spend huge dollars on a proper mold, it isn't that uncommon to do a mold like this to test a new part.
Aluminium mounds are often used for low volume runs as they are much cheaper to machine than tool steel. Also, prototyping is frequently done using a single cavity aluminium mould to prove the part and make any final changes before committing to producing a multi cavity tool in tool steel.
As for erosion issues... it’s likely that the parts will be moulded in ABS, HIPS, PP or HDPE which are not particularly aggressive and require less clamping force than if moulding GFPC or something of that nature.
Exactly. 6061 is soft, but machines easily and quickly - a critical consideration for prototyping. When spinning a 1/32" cutter, time is your enemy. Even small molds can take hours to cut the finishing passes at .001" stepover.
Great.
Yes. Mold info is very interesting.
Runners lead to Gates.
Gates lead in to fill the Product designed in CAD.
Sprue are the excess.
Hi Buddy, I am enjoying your Videos! Great Stuff... learning a lot. You posted a video where you bought a Haas. Great Machine. But this video is very impressive as well and made me curious about the Tormach. It Seems to be quite handy Machine for a reasonable cost. Off course you can recommend it but where are the limitations (in regards of the Haas). Thanks for all the time you put into you RUclips Channel and I hope I will be in a position where I can do something like that.
Cheers Mate, Thanks you for the explanation. Seeing what the machine can do I think this is what I need for the start. Especially when I compare the price of a VMC. I might have to adjust the Programs according to the machine. I am looking forward to see more videos from you. Keep up the good work and live the dream for us!
Does the program you use suggest what tools you need to use?
No. In most cases, it won't allow you to program a toolpath using a tool that has geometry too large for the toolpath strategy.
The designer/programmer is still responsible for selecting the appropriate tool.
Nice work John, that's really impressive.
Are you going to inject molten plastic into the molds you made?
+NYC CNC how much cast this size maching centre?
wouldn't there need to be a relief hole for trapped air ? cause nothing would flow into those areas
At the 20 min. mark, put the indicator all the way on the shank for a better reading.. If I missed that, sorry.
what kind of material do you make that mold...????
love the enthusiasm
Are there no vents?
was the smallest tool 10,000 rpm?
where on the die does the injection tip go into??
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Let me ask you, wich program you had used to create de G-Code?
NYC CNC Thank you so much!
I want to make a few plastic parts but have no idea where to start :/
What camera are you using in this vid?
sorry, what material do you use ???
Can you please please do the other side of the mold. Please! 😀
A Smaw rocket launcher?! Were do i buy it?! I needs it.
you have material entry but no exit. you need to have a place for over pressure.
bbowen1970
It's an injection mold. Material exit would be a bad thing.
Hot liquid plastic under high pressure makes a horrible and dangerous mess when it comes squirting out 😆
Alucinante, para hacer una pistola de plastico que vale 1€ necesitas maquinaria y herramientas por valor de 5000€, esto si que es sacarle rendimiento a las herramientas.