Great video. This reminds me of when i was about 8 years old, my father used to take me to work with him during the school holidays about 20 years ago. He used to be a die setter/ machine operator at an injection moulding buisness that also had a machine shop with about ten guys working there that made their own dies. My job was to snap the parts off the runners and sort the parts into boxes but i used to sneak off to the machine shop and watch guy that did the cad/cam work, blew my mind when he showed me that you could send the drawing downstairs to the cnc machine and get a die cut. Still blows my mind now :)
So many things in engineering blow my mind, too. I had a metalworking course in college back when our most sophisticated numerical control system was rolls of paper that you programmed by punching holes in it. Heck, I'm still impressed with impact dot-matrix printers... and they've been basically obsolete for 30 years!
Chapeau to you and your video editor. Slide out masks for in-place end mill descriptions, 3D endmill destination graphics, F360 flybys. Icing on the cake of a video that for me had spot on pacing and audio, not to mention clear and relaxed voice-over. Delegating WW to others has been a good example of "work on your business, not in it", too. Your content is outstanding and I appreciate it tremendously. Thanks!
Hello and greatings from Germany, at first sorry about my terrible english ... but i try my best! I follow your channel since a couple of years, and i respect what you have reached form your apartment to your shop now!! I'm an ... i don't know this is so called in us ... master of injection molding with years of practical experience with prototyping injection mold systems. You have done a nice job with your injection mold! Perhaps i can give you some tips what you can do so that the man of molding have a easier life ;). Air is the biggest problem of every injection mold process, it is always good to grind or mill out a tunnle from the cavity of your part, starting with 1mm (sorry metric :D) distance from the cavity, on the opposite side of your injection inlet, all the way out between your cavity plates. Later when the mold is on the molding machine and there are problems with ejecting air, you can easily grind this 1 mm bridge step by step down to help the air going out. The same thing you can do with your ejector bolts, you can grind a flat plane on each, with a distance to your cavity to eject air over your ejector bolts, or open your ejector holes in your cavity plate with a bigger diameter, but with a distance to your cavity. Air isnt just a problem of burning plastic while injection (in germany we call it diesel effect), it can also hapen that the air is inside the plastic part (in germany we call it lunker) and the stability of the part could take a negative effect. I hope you understand what i mean ;) Greeting Dominic
Moldmaker Apprentice checking in: As soon as i saw the solid model, I thought "What? No venting?!" 0 .0002" (around 4-5 microns if my mental math is correct) would be enough to vent even the most flash-prone materials.
I'm also from Germany, I used to machine injection molds and seeing you touch off on the outside edges gave me slight anxiety. You always want to set the offset on the most critical feature that is already machined and in this case that would be the guide bushings. We had some mold bodies that were up to .5mm off on the outside! that can really screw your injector set when you try to eject and it all seizes up. Seems like it turned out fine in your case, just wasn't the best practice.
@@noelbressan8097 At 12:30 you can see that he actually clocked in the guide bushings. But the outside is just rough and not made to tolerance. Always clock two holes to make sure everything is square.
Hey John. I clicked so fast on this, I'm a toolmaker so I machine tools every day. A tip for you; with these pre machined plates with the bores in the corners I always clock the back right bore and then clock the front left and split the difference. Works perfect every time
I've been a subscriber since your days of having the desktop machine in your apartment. It's amazing how far you've taken things since those days. Congrats on all of your success! You've earned it and are living proof that people can succeed when they put in the effort!!
Great Vid John. This bought back the good old days. I spent 4 years working for a company(in Australia) that made moulds for Tupperware. Back then we began using Devleig point to point Horizontal machining centres. the company advanced into Makino VMC machine (at a time when Makino was renowned for Engine lathes and Tool and Cutter grinders). We had a huge EDM department and a growing CNC Milling and Lathe section. We used to grind our own "D bits" for the engraving work. This bought back some great memories Thanks John.
Kitamura BridgeCenters are very nice for this type of work. Extraordinarily rigid machines with box-way table and slanted column bridge. They have absolute accuracy of 2 micron across the entire bed length and repeatability of 1 micron.
As a plastics injection molder for Corning Inc (Life Science division from Oneonta, NY), I really did appreciate and enjoy this video. I am responsible for maintenance on a Toyo SI 400V electric machine. Along with just making sure our 20+ other machines stay running, and deal with our QC deformities. Some of our biggest molds weight 5700-6000lbs. Great video
I’m not one to swear in public, but I’m going to go out of my comfort zone and just say...you F’ing amaze me. I’ve been watching your videos for years, however, I don’t comment often. From hobbyist, to full blown machinist/magician. As a hobbyist manufacturer, I love the way you explain the processing, and the video is outstanding. Thank you for sharing this process, as it’s something I’ve often thought of getting involved in. This, and vacuum forming.
I love this so much, I've seen this video in the past, but didn't understand all the concepts that were being talked about then. But now I'm watching again while attending a Machine Shop Basics class at St. Philips in San Antonio and I can already understand so much more about whats going on. Then watching this just makes me eager and excited to learn how to operate CNC machines when that class comes up.
@@northernsmith it's been my experience that every shop adds a chamfer to tapped holes when there isn't a call out. This can be problematic in certain situations. For example, when using shoulder bolts in said holes. I was bitten by that one during an internship where they actually used my designs in production. Technically, it also bit my mentors/bosses as they checked the drawings (and designs). This was very low run production tooling with ~32 holes across four parts so a "do not chamfer" call-out was in order. If it was a very long production run/something getting a ton of shoulder bolts then adding a chamfer with a +.0000/-.0010 tolerance _might_ increase tap life enough to lower part cost.
It is good practice to chamfer first. But I make 1000s of NPT holes in a year and sometimes impossible to chamfer, you don't even need too. Chamfer doesn't affect the seal at all. Best way to do NPT holes is to treadmill them. That way mold maker puts a tiny bit of Teflon tape and the plugs will stop all in the exact same spot perfectly sealed. I also usually gun drill all waterlines when possible and a gun drill doesn't make a burr. This is such tiny mold, molds I make have 500 to 2000 waterlines crisscrossing through it. Only time you need a chamfer is on the bottom of the mold so the plates sit flat against the mold
@@highstreetkillers4377 NPT plugs suck. I switched to port plugs a long time ago. No leaks and straight threads. Also easy to remove for maintenance. I Use them whenever possible.
You know what's weird? Being a "Jonathan" in Utah and watching this when John says he's sending it to Jonathan in Utah. Obviously there are a few of us here, but it still creates a very brief and very odd moment of confusion.
Great job guys! Wathching your channel and every video with a great pleasure, always find something new and usefull. A little tip for future moldmaking - not all mold base blocks have "base" side surfaces, for example Fodesco blocks (which are great, cheap and popular in Europe) have not parallel, not orthogonal and not even straight side surfaces. But! holes for guiding elements are excellent, orthogonal to plates face and bottom, and extremly precise in size and shape. It is a good practise to set up all the plates (excluding ejector plates, in which guiding holes are made "in situ") using that holes. Look at "meusburger h1000" set up system, it is a great example of mold clamping system, handy, precise and easy to use.. or to copy :) We are using similar system for over 5 years of everyday moldmaking job. Also great when it comes to machining plates on mill, then on EDM - helpls not to loose or mix up that microns, that really matter. P.s. sorry for the English, Russian is my native.
Hey John, Have you ever measured tool runout before and after a cut with your tap method? I would image if the tool is able to be moved around inside the collet from a dead blow that the cutting forces would be more than enough to move it even more!
The tool rotates while it cuts. So theoretically it would be like tapping hundreds or thousands of times on all sides of the tools. So theoretically it still should be centered.
My names not John but from my experience once you get the tool indicated in, it will repeat pretty well. All of your force is in the z axis, not x or y.
Nice to see someone else make and explain a mould I work for a company that makes mould tools as big as 64 imp razors it will mould 32 plastic handles and then spin 180 and mould the rubber grip on the handle it just moulded most off cavity we do are edm sparked and hard milled nice to see one fully milled great video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Drilling and reaming where best accuracy of form, size and position is concerned. Drill, then pre-ream using a rotary ground pre-reaming tool, leaving very little stock, is the way to go. To change the size (and surface finish) of a reamed hole within a few tenths, this is possible using different types of cutting fluid. Soluble oil cutting the tightest, cutting oil cutting looser, and cutting dry yielding the loosest hole. Feeds and speeds also effect both finishes and size, so a few trial holes is a useful adjunct.
Really cool vid! I'm an apprentice at a large custom injection and mold making facility, and get to be surrounded by some of the coolest machines (and molds, Tide pod box molds, snapple capped plastic bottles) and love seeing a video about what im surrounded with every day by you!
I worked in a tool making shop 18 years ago with an in house mould shop as a semi-skilled engineer. We did not have any CNC machines and relied on Lathes, Milling Machines, Grinding (Surface and Cylindrical) and Spark Eroders (those were interesting). We made some real complex mould tools with the machines we had.
As a kid, I worked at Hansen Ski as an injection mold operator. Used to have to jump inside the 2' to 3' molds (when open) to remove the ski boots! For some reason a crescent wrench was involved in the process (don't remember why...), but I remember leaving the wrench on top the then $40K-molds and when the machine cycled, the wrench fell inside the extraction plate mechanism and bent stuff up pretty bad... I don't think I lasted long after that!!! I really wanted to get into programming the many types of injection machines they had!
I used to work as a machinist and I made tools for injection moulding. Nice with a trip down memory lane =) Edit - that made me sound old as f*ck 😁10 years since i quit as a machinist. Now I´m back at school to become an mechanical engineer.
It´s a really exciting field, and I forecast words like: EDM/Wire EDM, Electrodes, Spot drilling/Center Drilling, Reaming/Honing, Wire EDM, Hard inserts, graphite, S7, H13, Venting, hand grinding, Mold flow analysis, Hot sprue bushing, Hot runners, support pillars, locating rings, return pins, ejector pins/plate/sleeves, Angular pins, sliders, parting lines, shut-offs, etc.. will be appearing more often in your videos!
Reamers can be stepped on a reamer/endmill rotary collet indexer, purpose is to cut out stock undersize in hole then the rest of the reamer finishes to size, standard practice in hole reaming, sneek up on it. Better hole finishes and tighter tolerances. Always ease a holes beginning with a lead, small chamfer if possible. Better with steeper angle, 60
toolmaking is the king class in metalworking. so much to worry about and so much tolerances. Im working in a small company, we make mold for duroplast type plastics. makes it even more difficult to design and run
As someone that has 10 years experience machining molds for car bumpers, dashboards, and other huge molds, this is funny to watch. I'd love to show you videos but I would get in trouble. I did the 3d finishing on a machine where the spindle is on a Sine plate. Put the cutting tool on a compound angle, make a program, then pick out corners with a 1mm ball for weeks. I'm more on the boring mill and 6 axis gundrill/mill these days luckily. You should try putting in 2" lifter rod holes on a compound angle 1 meter deep. lol. Even worse is 3 mm ejector pins 1500mm deep with 5 mm clearance 1450 mm deep. That mold has no lifters, inserts, or slides. lol. That's a cake walk man. You didn't even make the ejector box or plates, lol. Waterlines? lol. The one 30 ton Cavity I make has like 800 Waterlines through it with a helluva a lot of intersections. Now that's a stressful puzzle. Luckily I've got the 6 axis machine, cause before I'd put that 30 ton cavity on a sine plate on the boring mill and some setups I have to tilt the sign plate 43.473 degrees and then turn the table 46.238 degrees. That setup with lifting the sine plate on with the crane and block, start until cutting. Takes me 1.5 hours. RUclips machinists kill me struggled with setups in a vise out by 0.001". lol. I indicate 50 ton molds straight on my machine everyday, 0 - 0, and that's over 3 meters. Sometimes I use a 9/16" drill thats 700 mm long and drill on a compound angle through 11 intersections 650mm deep. Just makes me laugh watching someone struggle on a small simple mold like this. lol. No offence, practice makes perfect
I really like your machining the mold so logically. As more than ten years mold designer's advice, you should eliminate the second mold plate, then make the inserts in Top plate and make another block to fix them. it will decrease the sprue length, and save the material.
DME good way to go, mold base then A and B plate, ejector plate, ejector pins just right to eject the parts and the runners just the right length, lot of work lot of time. important to get the pins and bushings perfect, Spent 20 years designing with cad/cam making drawings and machining injection molds ordered lots of stuff from DME, pins, bushings, ejector pins, springs and plates.
Good way of making sure you can relocate a mold plate lite cut on front for square on x axes then any where on center line on plate drill hole ream and burnish hole at 1/4 or more depth, you can come back latter if need be to run your indicator along x axes and sweep hole for picking up location even repairs years later just put your info in the drawing. Also its called a subgate that special hole that the plastic flows into for filling the part, it needs to be just right so you can separate the part from the runner.
machining the core and cavity into the mold plate if not the best way to go. i work on high volume molds, 64 cavity and above, the core and cavity are always separate parts from the plate. when you mentioned having to drill long holes for the coolant lines that would work in a small mold like this, but for large molds the coolant lines would need to be gun drilled with a 32in carbide tipped drill.
Yes. Making cavity/core inserts is a next step in making this mold a real mold. So he can run similar sized products or different version of current design.
Hello i just wanted to say I think its awesome you used a DME product for this. I actually work for Milacron and Machine parts for mold units and frames for DME and Mud products.
Molds are indeed a very intense assembly to get right...looks awesome...I have a business partner specializes in large die assemblies and valves and with some completed assemblies in the 65+ ton range they are simply staggering to behold...All Doosan 130xx type of stuff. Keep up the great work!
So, one question: the way the cavities are connected below the surface of the mold (the "submarine holes," IIRC), it seems like the sprue connecting the center channel to the outer cavities will have to be cut when the ejector pins actuate -- otherwise the center sprue and the plugs would still be connected post-ejection, and the video evidence appears otherwise. Is that correct? If so, how could you be confident (in the design stage, b/c obviously this works in production) that that will work properly, and not leave debris caught in the "submarine holes" that might damage the next injection?
I found this video very satisfying to watch! I worked for an injection molding company at my previous job and we had small basic tools like this to large complex tools for automotive parts. Keep up the good work John!
@NYC CNC Wow that's great, congratulations to another big step on this channel! Please, please, please add a list how you would quote this mold, spindle time, time for the CAD files, maybe even the time you spent reading all about injection molds etc. Thank you!!!
We used to use an EDM machine to make those tiny holes leading to the cavity , since you can make an electrode that can be held with 90degree extensions, it's much easier than using 5axis mill
Very informative tutorial video, I'm a plastics engineer/mould maker, an excellent example of injection mould manufacture. If we can do this, we can do almost anything. But it is intricate, takes more skill and knowledge....👍👍
Any reason to indicate in the shank of small end mills rather than the flutes? I don't have a lot of experience with setting them up but I do hear that the flutes can be ground .0004" or more off center from the shank.
I always disable my unused rotary axis when holding a part that cannot be rotated, very easy to do on the Haas. That way you can never accidentally move it by jogging, or if programmed it will alarm out.
i built my own cnc 10 years ago and software was so cost prohibitive my machine sat in the garage as a table since. i used google sketchup to draw, then cambam to set the cutter paths, then emc2 on an ubuntu install. it was all free, so i got to make basic stuff, but today maybe the landscape has changed? i will have to look into it again.
Have to watch leaving sharp corners when making runners. It can create turbulence and make the plastic flow very strange as well, in turn bad parts. Also the hot runner or heating rods paired with a very accurate thermocouple play a crucial role as well.
Pro tip about the torque wrench at 13:45 Install the accessory at 90* to then handle rather than parallel. With the accessory straight, you are extending the torque measuring length. If you did the math already for the compensation then by all means, keep on going to the moon.
yeah once you start introducing undercuts it really gets nasty we had some mold that took 2 months to finish, the finished product was the body of a vacuum cleaner, blueing this thing in was a nightmare... also well done!
Great video! I work with injection molding and I find it very interesting how you create this mold as I've been deconstructing and servicing molds in the past as well.
You really should ream all ejector pin holes and core pin holes from the back of the mold base. You will get a small amount of bellmouthing by reaming from the parting line side. That results in a small flash around the pin hole. Good stuff!
Did you ever try to use a camera that you can remove the ir filter (an expendable usb camera) more than likely it will "see thru" the opacity of the coolant, but it becomes little difference between looking thru a window on the rain or the spinner windows, but might yield better results.
Does this Jonathan guy have any videos on RUclips or anything teaching injection molding like you said? I have the CNC machine and want to make some molds, I've been looking at getting an arburg press used but I need to do more research on the process before I decide if I want to get one and what I need
Congratulations, you have truly come a long way. I've been following you since the garage times and this claerly denotes a breakpoint: having caught up with the best of the industry. Now: Haass is one thing, but the additive DMG Mori Seiki Machines will be the next challenge. Ready to go for it? Btw: I'm still on woodworking DIY machines.
@@nyccnc That was the first thing I noticed was why only 2 parts. They are using up more material in the sprue than the part. The machine time is being wasted with only 2 parts per cycle.
@@SpaceBuckaroo Probably a investment vs income argument. They might only need to make 10,000 in a month and the investment into a more complex molding wouldn't be worth it for that throughput. It might also be that the machine the customer plans to use cannot handle the amount of plastic needed to fill the mold. Plastic molding is a complex process and one thing you need to worry about is being able to fill the mold before the plastic cools enough to become solid. I'm not super proficient with plastic molding but that's what NYC CNC probably means by shot size limit. Since the part is something they don't need a lot of they can probably charge a little more per part to offset the extra material used. This might seem stupid but in the end a plastic injected part is still going to be darn cheep even if it's not the "optimum" throughput and efficiency you could use to make the part. Also, plastic can be recycled in house to certain extents to reduce the overall wasted material. This is why you still see small machines being used in all trades. Sure you can get the biggest baddest thing around to remove/add umpteen tons of material a day. But if you only need to make 100 small parts every week then what's the point?
Dude mold and die bases that are pre made are awsome they take up most of the grunt work and all you got to do is machining the cavities or the die steels and your up and running
@steve gale idk sometimes depending on where you go the cost of material and labor the bases end up being cheaper then making them in house also make sure the shit is made in America or anywhere other than china we bought a complete progression die from china once never again spent more money on getting it to run good parts then the cost of the die at the end.
Just a bit curious why the rate of injection is so slow. Did you slow the injector down so we could see what was happening? If this is the rate of injection for a two cavity mold, I can't see the economy of such slow production output.
I know you said this was your 1st injection mold, so I'm sure there was plenty of "trial and denial" But in the end, how much time (hours) do you think to had in this project? And now that you worked through the learning curve, how much time (hours) do you think it would take you to make the same exact mold the 2nd time? Just trying to get a rough idea of how much time really does into machining a mold.
very cool vid. ok, question, can anybody tell me how did people make the injection mold accurately in the old days, like 50s or before, when there was no computer or CAD CAM?? thank you and look forwards for any answers!!
@NYC CNC Great job you guys!!! One small tought, have you considered using G68 to straighten the part and if so why did you opt for the "clock". Sorry if my english is bad, i'm not a native speaker.
You said that moulds have to be made by cnc - not true at all. Injections moulds were made long before CNC machines. And many are still made the old way - with standard milling machines and spark eroders.
On a die this small do you have to have the surface perfectly flat or a micro concave or convex to allow for part expansion and deformation? Or does the cooling keep any movement from happening? We have a 2000 lb die for our product, but I have always been curious as to the actual tolerances.
question?why did you make it only 2 cavity?it looks like the size of the mould base can make atleast 8 cavities.maximize the mould base size.cycle time is the same but production rate is 4x faster.
If you run a lot of them, especially if you're using expensive materials, consider changing that cold aprue bushing into a hot sprue bushing. (Hot runner system would be overkill for this) DME sells basic ones for under a grand. A basic temp controller if your dude doesn't have one is also cheap. Minor mods to fit. It's basically a much smaller od version of a sprue bushing that has a heater band wrapped around it with clearance for heat xfer. The tip will then stay the same diameter. From just the video it looks like you'd have 50% less scrap, and it will also decrease the cycle time. Make twice the parts with half the material! Depending on what material, choose appropriate tips, to shut off. I.E. reverse taper for nylons. Of course if your using cheap material or some regrind, and 5-10 seconds doesn't matter, then it may not be worth it. What is the material your running, and what mold steel did you use?
I know this is a stupid question (sorry hah) but Is it necesary to be a engineer to get to work with machines like this? Or with being a mechanic (a really good one, of course) is enough?
Hi John, You said that, "Yes, You can thread mill NPT with Fusion 360." Could you explain this? I have been searching like crazy and everything I find says Fusion won't do NPT and it is possibly on the list for future updates.
Two questions. These aren't about the machining, but more about the design. I was hoping you might know. 1) Why is this mold so big for such a small part? 2) If the mold had to be that big to fit the injector, then why didn't they design this to make at least a dozen more of the parts in each injection? This is for rubber parts. It's not like very slight temperature or density differences between them during molding would be a big deal. Great video, BTW. I hope you get lots of business. That beast of yours looks hungry.
Hi John, thanks for posting the video, it was very detailed !!. How long did it take you guys to complete the machining from the time you received the mould till sampling the plastic parts
What was the reason for having the gate hidden? Could it not have been on the surface? How did you align the ejector pins? Did you use transfer punches or some other method?
I work in injection molding and tooling, sub gates like this are used so when the part ejects from the mold it automatically separates itself from the sprue, as well as leaving a cleaner finish than cutting the gate by hand. there are many different gate styles depending on part shape, plastic type, and a whole range of factors
Great video. This reminds me of when i was about 8 years old, my father used to take me to work with him during the school holidays about 20 years ago. He used to be a die setter/ machine operator at an injection moulding buisness that also had a machine shop with about ten guys working there that made their own dies. My job was to snap the parts off the runners and sort the parts into boxes but i used to sneak off to the machine shop and watch guy that did the cad/cam work, blew my mind when he showed me that you could send the drawing downstairs to the cnc machine and get a die cut. Still blows my mind now :)
So many things in engineering blow my mind, too. I had a metalworking course in college back when our most sophisticated numerical control system was rolls of paper that you programmed by punching holes in it. Heck, I'm still impressed with impact dot-matrix printers... and they've been basically obsolete for 30 years!
Chapeau to you and your video editor. Slide out masks for in-place end mill descriptions, 3D endmill destination graphics, F360 flybys. Icing on the cake of a video that for me had spot on pacing and audio, not to mention clear and relaxed voice-over.
Delegating WW to others has been a good example of "work on your business, not in it", too.
Your content is outstanding and I appreciate it tremendously. Thanks!
Hello and greatings from Germany,
at first sorry about my terrible english ... but i try my best!
I follow your channel since a couple of years, and i respect what you have reached form your apartment to your shop now!!
I'm an ... i don't know this is so called in us ... master of injection molding with years of practical experience with prototyping injection mold systems.
You have done a nice job with your injection mold!
Perhaps i can give you some tips what you can do so that the man of molding have a easier life ;).
Air is the biggest problem of every injection mold process, it is always good to grind or mill out a tunnle from the cavity of your part, starting with 1mm (sorry metric :D) distance from the cavity, on the opposite side of your injection inlet, all the way out between your cavity plates. Later when the mold is on the molding machine and there are problems with ejecting air, you can easily grind this 1 mm bridge step by step down to help the air going out.
The same thing you can do with your ejector bolts, you can grind a flat plane on each, with a distance to your cavity to eject air over your ejector bolts, or open your ejector holes in your cavity plate with a bigger diameter, but with a distance to your cavity.
Air isnt just a problem of burning plastic while injection (in germany we call it diesel effect), it can also hapen that the air is inside the plastic part (in germany we call it lunker) and the stability of the part could take a negative effect.
I hope you understand what i mean ;)
Greeting Dominic
Never apologise for using metric ;)
Moldmaker Apprentice checking in: As soon as i saw the solid model, I thought "What? No venting?!" 0 .0002" (around 4-5 microns if my mental math is correct) would be enough to vent even the most flash-prone materials.
I had this problem with my mold, when the plastic was injected the mold was forced apart very slightly.
I'm also from Germany, I used to machine injection molds and seeing you touch off on the outside edges gave me slight anxiety. You always want to set the offset on the most critical feature that is already machined and in this case that would be the guide bushings. We had some mold bodies that were up to .5mm off on the outside! that can really screw your injector set when you try to eject and it all seizes up. Seems like it turned out fine in your case, just wasn't the best practice.
@@noelbressan8097 At 12:30 you can see that he actually clocked in the guide bushings.
But the outside is just rough and not made to tolerance.
Always clock two holes to make sure everything is square.
Hey John. I clicked so fast on this, I'm a toolmaker so I machine tools every day. A tip for you; with these pre machined plates with the bores in the corners I always clock the back right bore and then clock the front left and split the difference. Works perfect every time
I've been a subscriber since your days of having the desktop machine in your apartment. It's amazing how far you've taken things since those days. Congrats on all of your success! You've earned it and are living proof that people can succeed when they put in the effort!!
Great Vid John. This bought back the good old days. I spent 4 years working for a company(in Australia) that made moulds for Tupperware. Back then we began using Devleig point to point Horizontal machining centres. the company advanced into Makino VMC machine (at a time when Makino was renowned for Engine lathes and Tool and Cutter grinders). We had a huge EDM department and a growing CNC Milling and Lathe section. We used to grind our own "D bits" for the engraving work. This bought back some great memories Thanks John.
Kitamura BridgeCenters are very nice for this type of work. Extraordinarily rigid machines with box-way table and slanted column bridge. They have absolute accuracy of 2 micron across the entire bed length and repeatability of 1 micron.
@@FluxApexEng Chip mfrs don't use VMCs. No comparison between milling machines and microchip manufacture.
As a plastics injection molder for Corning Inc (Life Science division from Oneonta, NY), I really did appreciate and enjoy this video. I am responsible for maintenance on a Toyo SI 400V electric machine. Along with just making sure our 20+ other machines stay running, and deal with our QC deformities. Some of our biggest molds weight 5700-6000lbs. Great video
So they are "small" (or "medium") in size. ;-) Fun begins from 10 tons up.
If you make pipette tips or Falcon tubes there's a good chance that I use stuff from your machines daily.
I’m not one to swear in public, but I’m going to go out of my comfort zone and just say...you F’ing amaze me. I’ve been watching your videos for years, however, I don’t comment often.
From hobbyist, to full blown machinist/magician. As a hobbyist manufacturer, I love the way you explain the processing, and the video is outstanding. Thank you for sharing this process, as it’s something I’ve often thought of getting involved in. This, and vacuum forming.
THANK you! Appreciate it :) And I love that I get to do what I do :)
P.S. watch your language :) :) :)
I love this so much, I've seen this video in the past, but didn't understand all the concepts that were being talked about then. But now I'm watching again while attending a Machine Shop Basics class at St. Philips in San Antonio and I can already understand so much more about whats going on. Then watching this just makes me eager and excited to learn how to operate CNC machines when that class comes up.
I am an injection molding manufacturer from China. It's very inspiring to watch your video.
Good job, I'm a 35yr molding veteran, a process tech engineer, you did a great job with this video, much success with your operation!
You should always chamfer NPT holes before you tap/thread them.
That way you don't roll a burr into the part that prevents good sealing.
tyler gibb it’s good practice on any threaded hole. 😄
@@northernsmith it's been my experience that every shop adds a chamfer to tapped holes when there isn't a call out.
This can be problematic in certain situations. For example, when using shoulder bolts in said holes. I was bitten by that one during an internship where they actually used my designs in production. Technically, it also bit my mentors/bosses as they checked the drawings (and designs). This was very low run production tooling with ~32 holes across four parts so a "do not chamfer" call-out was in order. If it was a very long production run/something getting a ton of shoulder bolts then adding a chamfer with a +.0000/-.0010 tolerance _might_ increase tap life enough to lower part cost.
Not an issue with a thread mill in my experience. Worst case you just use the thread mill to do a level pass at the top.
It is good practice to chamfer first. But I make 1000s of NPT holes in a year and sometimes impossible to chamfer, you don't even need too. Chamfer doesn't affect the seal at all. Best way to do NPT holes is to treadmill them. That way mold maker puts a tiny bit of Teflon tape and the plugs will stop all in the exact same spot perfectly sealed. I also usually gun drill all waterlines when possible and a gun drill doesn't make a burr. This is such tiny mold, molds I make have 500 to 2000 waterlines crisscrossing through it. Only time you need a chamfer is on the bottom of the mold so the plates sit flat against the mold
@@highstreetkillers4377 NPT plugs suck. I switched to port plugs a long time ago. No leaks and straight threads. Also easy to remove for maintenance. I Use them whenever possible.
2:48 I believe the VM actually has a lower pitch ball screw; 6mm if I recall correctly. The VF2-SS has 12mm for those crazy speeds. Great video!
As a injection molding technician/mechanic, it was neat to see how a mold is made. Nice work.
You know what's weird? Being a "Jonathan" in Utah and watching this when John says he's sending it to Jonathan in Utah. Obviously there are a few of us here, but it still creates a very brief and very odd moment of confusion.
Maybe all of the Jonathan's in Utah are getting one
Great job guys! Wathching your channel and every video with a great pleasure, always find something new and usefull.
A little tip for future moldmaking - not all mold base blocks have "base" side surfaces, for example Fodesco blocks (which are great, cheap and popular in Europe) have not parallel, not orthogonal and not even straight side surfaces. But! holes for guiding elements are excellent, orthogonal to plates face and bottom, and extremly precise in size and shape. It is a good practise to set up all the plates (excluding ejector plates, in which guiding holes are made "in situ") using that holes. Look at "meusburger h1000" set up system, it is a great example of mold clamping system, handy, precise and easy to use.. or to copy :)
We are using similar system for over 5 years of everyday moldmaking job. Also great when it comes to machining plates on mill, then on EDM - helpls not to loose or mix up that microns, that really matter.
P.s. sorry for the English, Russian is my native.
Can you recommend some books about molds (making, maintenance, repair, welding, polishing), in Russian?
Hey John, Have you ever measured tool runout before and after a cut with your tap method? I would image if the tool is able to be moved around inside the collet from a dead blow that the cutting forces would be more than enough to move it even more!
The tool rotates while it cuts. So theoretically it would be like tapping hundreds or thousands of times on all sides of the tools.
So theoretically it still should be centered.
My names not John but from my experience once you get the tool indicated in, it will repeat pretty well. All of your force is in the z axis, not x or y.
Nice to see someone else make and explain a mould I work for a company that makes mould tools as big as 64 imp razors it will mould 32 plastic handles and then spin 180 and mould the rubber grip on the handle it just moulded most off cavity we do are edm sparked and hard milled nice to see one fully milled great video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Drilling and reaming where best accuracy of form, size and position is concerned. Drill, then pre-ream using a rotary ground pre-reaming tool, leaving very little stock, is the way to go. To change the size (and surface finish) of a reamed hole within a few tenths, this is possible using different types of cutting fluid. Soluble oil cutting the tightest, cutting oil cutting looser, and cutting dry yielding the loosest hole. Feeds and speeds also effect both finishes and size, so a few trial holes is a useful adjunct.
Yes, This should be "sticky comment".
Really cool vid! I'm an apprentice at a large custom injection and mold making facility, and get to be surrounded by some of the coolest machines (and molds, Tide pod box molds, snapple capped plastic bottles) and love seeing a video about what im surrounded with every day by you!
fun shit isnt it? i have been at it for 4 years now. keep at it! gl in your career
I worked in a tool making shop 18 years ago with an in house mould shop as a semi-skilled engineer. We did not have any CNC machines and relied on Lathes, Milling Machines, Grinding (Surface and Cylindrical) and Spark Eroders (those were interesting). We made some real complex mould tools with the machines we had.
As a kid, I worked at Hansen Ski as an injection mold operator. Used to have to jump inside the 2' to 3' molds (when open) to remove the ski boots! For some reason a crescent wrench was involved in the process (don't remember why...), but I remember leaving the wrench on top the then $40K-molds and when the machine cycled, the wrench fell inside the extraction plate mechanism and bent stuff up pretty bad... I don't think I lasted long after that!!! I really wanted to get into programming the many types of injection machines they had!
I used to work as a machinist and I made tools for injection moulding. Nice with a trip down memory lane =)
Edit - that made me sound old as f*ck 😁10 years since i quit as a machinist. Now I´m back at school to become an mechanical engineer.
It´s a really exciting field, and I forecast words like: EDM/Wire EDM, Electrodes, Spot drilling/Center Drilling, Reaming/Honing, Wire EDM, Hard inserts, graphite, S7, H13, Venting, hand grinding, Mold flow analysis, Hot sprue bushing, Hot runners, support pillars, locating rings, return pins, ejector pins/plate/sleeves, Angular pins, sliders, parting lines, shut-offs, etc.. will be appearing more often in your videos!
HEY! this is what i do for 40 hours a week! make molds for multiple processes. injection roto and blow
@Fernandes assembling as putting together or machining the moulds?
Is your company located near Texas? And what is the turnover time of production?
twoset?
skizzik121 Hi, can I get you contact info, I am designer and would like to order a mold
Florida moldmaker
Reamers can be stepped on a reamer/endmill rotary collet indexer, purpose is to cut out stock undersize in hole then the rest of the reamer finishes to size, standard practice in hole reaming, sneek up on it. Better hole finishes and tighter tolerances. Always ease a holes beginning with a lead, small chamfer if possible. Better with steeper angle, 60
toolmaking is the king class in metalworking. so much to worry about and so much tolerances. Im working in a small company, we make mold for duroplast type plastics. makes it even more difficult to design and run
Yes, no sissies there, straight real work.
As someone that has 10 years experience machining molds for car bumpers, dashboards, and other huge molds, this is funny to watch. I'd love to show you videos but I would get in trouble. I did the 3d finishing on a machine where the spindle is on a Sine plate. Put the cutting tool on a compound angle, make a program, then pick out corners with a 1mm ball for weeks. I'm more on the boring mill and 6 axis gundrill/mill these days luckily. You should try putting in 2" lifter rod holes on a compound angle 1 meter deep. lol. Even worse is 3 mm ejector pins 1500mm deep with 5 mm clearance 1450 mm deep. That mold has no lifters, inserts, or slides. lol. That's a cake walk man. You didn't even make the ejector box or plates, lol. Waterlines? lol. The one 30 ton Cavity I make has like 800 Waterlines through it with a helluva a lot of intersections. Now that's a stressful puzzle. Luckily I've got the 6 axis machine, cause before I'd put that 30 ton cavity on a sine plate on the boring mill and some setups I have to tilt the sign plate 43.473 degrees and then turn the table 46.238 degrees. That setup with lifting the sine plate on with the crane and block, start until cutting. Takes me 1.5 hours. RUclips machinists kill me struggled with setups in a vise out by 0.001". lol. I indicate 50 ton molds straight on my machine everyday, 0 - 0, and that's over 3 meters. Sometimes I use a 9/16" drill thats 700 mm long and drill on a compound angle through 11 intersections 650mm deep. Just makes me laugh watching someone struggle on a small simple mold like this. lol. No offence, practice makes perfect
I used to run and tend 8 molding machines. I would go to the tool making side all the time when I could and watch.
I'm always excited when I'm watching your videos. Great job!
I really like your machining the mold so logically.
As more than ten years mold designer's advice, you should eliminate the second mold plate, then make the inserts in Top plate and make another block to fix them. it will decrease the sprue length,
and save the material.
Doesn't the waste material get reground/reused?
How do you prevent the part from shrinking after molding. Or do you compensate by oversizeing it on the mold.
Nice work! Why you don't mashine some precise vice to hold the tool centered if you push it in a collet, so you don't need correct it after fixing?
DME good way to go, mold base then A and B plate, ejector plate, ejector pins just right to eject the parts and the runners just the right length, lot of work lot of time. important to get the pins and bushings perfect,
Spent 20 years designing with cad/cam making drawings and machining injection molds ordered lots of stuff from DME, pins, bushings, ejector pins, springs and plates.
Good way of making sure you can relocate a mold plate lite cut on front for square on x axes then any where on center line on plate drill hole ream and burnish hole at 1/4 or more depth, you can come back latter if need be to run your indicator along x axes and sweep hole for picking up location even repairs years later just put your info in the drawing. Also its called a subgate that special hole that the plastic flows into for filling the part, it needs to be just right so you can separate the part from the runner.
machining the core and cavity into the mold plate if not the best way to go. i work on high volume molds, 64 cavity and above, the core and cavity are always separate parts from the plate. when you mentioned having to drill long holes for the coolant lines that would work in a small mold like this, but for large molds the coolant lines would need to be gun drilled with a 32in carbide tipped drill.
Yes. Making cavity/core inserts is a next step in making this mold a real mold. So he can run similar sized products or different version of current design.
Hello i just wanted to say I think its awesome you used a DME product for this. I actually work for Milacron and Machine parts for mold units and frames for DME and Mud products.
Awesome video, I would have just really loved more shots of the final product and how it works.
Molds are indeed a very intense assembly to get right...looks awesome...I have a business partner specializes in large die assemblies and valves and with some completed assemblies in the 65+ ton range they are simply staggering to behold...All Doosan 130xx type of stuff.
Keep up the great work!
So, one question: the way the cavities are connected below the surface of the mold (the "submarine holes," IIRC), it seems like the sprue connecting the center channel to the outer cavities will have to be cut when the ejector pins actuate -- otherwise the center sprue and the plugs would still be connected post-ejection, and the video evidence appears otherwise. Is that correct? If so, how could you be confident (in the design stage, b/c obviously this works in production) that that will work properly, and not leave debris caught in the "submarine holes" that might damage the next injection?
firehawkdelta it gets pulled out of the tunnels when the sprue is ejected. It’s possible for it to get stuck, but if designed right it’s pretty rare.
I found this video very satisfying to watch! I worked for an injection molding company at my previous job and we had small basic tools like this to large complex tools for automotive parts. Keep up the good work John!
Which machine is used to make molds
@NYC CNC
Wow that's great, congratulations to another big step on this channel! Please, please, please add a list how you would quote this mold, spindle time, time for the CAD files, maybe even the time you spent reading all about injection molds etc. Thank you!!!
We used to use an EDM machine to make those tiny holes leading to the cavity , since you can make an electrode that can be held with 90degree extensions, it's much easier than using 5axis mill
Very informative tutorial video, I'm a plastics engineer/mould maker, an excellent example of injection mould manufacture. If we can do this, we can do almost anything. But it is intricate, takes more skill and knowledge....👍👍
Any reason to indicate in the shank of small end mills rather than the flutes? I don't have a lot of experience with setting them up but I do hear that the flutes can be ground .0004" or more off center from the shank.
I always disable my unused rotary axis when holding a part that cannot be rotated, very easy to do on the Haas. That way you can never accidentally move it by jogging, or if programmed it will alarm out.
i built my own cnc 10 years ago and software was so cost prohibitive my machine sat in the garage as a table since. i used google sketchup to draw, then cambam to set the cutter paths, then emc2 on an ubuntu install. it was all free, so i got to make basic stuff, but today maybe the landscape has changed? i will have to look into it again.
Have to watch leaving sharp corners when making runners. It can create turbulence and make the plastic flow very strange as well, in turn bad parts. Also the hot runner or heating rods paired with a very accurate thermocouple play a crucial role as well.
Did u base part on corners or on holes? U should set base on center by setting center on every 4 holes. Sory for my bad english.
This is awesome!
Thanks!
Also, John you should get you a Gate mate or a DMax. the sprue is massive for that part.
Pro tip about the torque wrench at 13:45
Install the accessory at 90* to then handle rather than parallel. With the accessory straight, you are extending the torque measuring length.
If you did the math already for the compensation then by all means, keep on going to the moon.
yeah once you start introducing undercuts it really gets nasty we had some mold that took 2 months to finish, the finished product was the body of a vacuum cleaner, blueing this thing in was a nightmare... also well done!
Strothy2
Last mold we did in-house had 106 shut offs, and 12 side actions...
@@occamssawzall3486
Nightmare stuff...
Great video! I work with injection molding and I find it very interesting how you create this mold as I've been deconstructing and servicing molds in the past as well.
Well done! This is right up my alley as my job title is a machinist/mold builder. Enjoyed this video very much!👍🏾
You really should ream all ejector pin holes and core pin holes from the back of the mold base. You will get a small amount of bellmouthing by reaming from the parting line side. That results in a small flash around the pin hole. Good stuff!
Did you ever try to use a camera that you can remove the ir filter (an expendable usb camera) more than likely it will "see thru" the opacity of the coolant, but it becomes little difference between looking thru a window on the rain or the spinner windows, but might yield better results.
Does this Jonathan guy have any videos on RUclips or anything teaching injection molding like you said? I have the CNC machine and want to make some molds, I've been looking at getting an arburg press used but I need to do more research on the process before I decide if I want to get one and what I need
Congratulations, you have truly come a long way. I've been following you since the garage times and this claerly denotes a breakpoint: having caught up with the best of the industry. Now: Haass is one thing, but the additive DMG Mori Seiki Machines will be the next challenge. Ready to go for it? Btw: I'm still on woodworking DIY machines.
Why only 2 finished parts for cycle? Wouldn't 6 or 8 better utilize the injection molder.
Rookie numbers. Needs to be at least 30. Joking side, 1) shot size limit in machine, 2) increased mold complexity 3) the price and this solution WORK!
@@nyccnc That was the first thing I noticed was why only 2 parts. They are using up more material in the sprue than the part. The machine time is being wasted with only 2 parts per cycle.
@@SpaceBuckaroo Probably a investment vs income argument. They might only need to make 10,000 in a month and the investment into a more complex molding wouldn't be worth it for that throughput. It might also be that the machine the customer plans to use cannot handle the amount of plastic needed to fill the mold. Plastic molding is a complex process and one thing you need to worry about is being able to fill the mold before the plastic cools enough to become solid. I'm not super proficient with plastic molding but that's what NYC CNC probably means by shot size limit.
Since the part is something they don't need a lot of they can probably charge a little more per part to offset the extra material used. This might seem stupid but in the end a plastic injected part is still going to be darn cheep even if it's not the "optimum" throughput and efficiency you could use to make the part. Also, plastic can be recycled in house to certain extents to reduce the overall wasted material.
This is why you still see small machines being used in all trades. Sure you can get the biggest baddest thing around to remove/add umpteen tons of material a day. But if you only need to make 100 small parts every week then what's the point?
Fewer chances of messing it up... and room for mistakes
plenty of reasons why 2 is better in this case
I work at an injection molding company. It's so nice to see someone else do the work
Saw the plugs on the SMW site. Excited to get some with my next order.
I don't remember seeing one, but you should go over how your shop tools have been holding up, like the Arduino curtain opener you did a while back
ARSE door doing great. The height-adjusting iPad - not so well.
NYC CNC Great to hear that. It would be cool video to make at some point. I know you are probably real though
Did I miss the center drilling of the holes to be reamed?
And those are “sub-gates”.
Loved the video, thanks!!!
"submarine tunnel" vs "sub gate", NOT one to get upset about. It not like he's mixing up core pins and ejector pins.
Dude mold and die bases that are pre made are awsome they take up most of the grunt work and all you got to do is machining the cavities or the die steels and your up and running
@steve gale idk sometimes depending on where you go the cost of material and labor the bases end up being cheaper then making them in house also make sure the shit is made in America or anywhere other than china we bought a complete progression die from china once never again spent more money on getting it to run good parts then the cost of the die at the end.
How do lego get such sharp corners on there blocks?
In the in sides of of models must be just sharps but i cant think of a tool that could do it
You can put a broach in the middle
It’s very satisfying to see the needle on the dial indicator NOT move.
So, when will your start with lathe operations? :) Regards from Germany!
Just a bit curious why the rate of injection is so slow. Did you slow the injector down so we could see what was happening? If this is the rate of injection for a two cavity mold, I can't see the economy of such slow production output.
Great video, loved it. Why did you not avoid the submarine holes, and just do a two part mold - or was that the objective, a one sided mold?
Very nice! Video quality is fantastic, and keeps getting better.
Since the cooling holes dont require much positioning accuracy, 1 stop could have been used for the x axis.
Why not 4 cavities tho?
Incredible and inspiring. Thankyou for sharing!
I know you said this was your 1st injection mold, so I'm sure there was plenty of "trial and denial" But in the end, how much time (hours) do you think to had in this project? And now that you worked through the learning curve, how much time (hours) do you think it would take you to make the same exact mold the 2nd time?
Just trying to get a rough idea of how much time really does into machining a mold.
Really cool video my family job shop is looking into getting a trunnion for our Haas vf6 and vf3
What bit did you guys use for the small logo on the mold? I feel like you guys covered every bit except that one. Thanks.
Having not been near a machine shop for fifty years this is truly incredible.
Can i ask, what the name of software you use to make the machine program?
your videos are awesome, thanks for taking time to do them
very cool vid. ok, question, can anybody tell me how did people make the injection mold accurately in the old days, like 50s or before, when there was no computer or CAD CAM?? thank you and look forwards for any answers!!
@NYC CNC Great job you guys!!! One small tought, have you considered using G68 to straighten the part and if so why did you opt for the "clock". Sorry if my english is bad, i'm not a native speaker.
You said that moulds have to be made by cnc - not true at all. Injections moulds were made long before CNC machines. And many are still made the old way - with standard milling machines and spark eroders.
This brings back good memories of when I used to make the molds for injection molded parts.
I’ve never seen a thread mill program start at hole depth and work it’s way out. Any reason behind doing it this way?
Ive reamed holes for ejector pin holes with a dewalt drill. Never had problems with material flashing.
On a die this small do you have to have the surface perfectly flat or a micro concave or convex to allow for part expansion and deformation? Or does the cooling keep any movement from happening? We have a 2000 lb die for our product, but I have always been curious as to the actual tolerances.
Bit late, but are you saying that McMaster's cobalt line of drill is PTD?
question?why did you make it only 2 cavity?it looks like the size of the mould base can make atleast 8 cavities.maximize the mould base size.cycle time is the same but production rate is 4x faster.
Probably would have pilot drilled those coolant holes but hey I don’t argue with success
If you run a lot of them, especially if you're using expensive materials, consider changing that cold aprue bushing into a hot sprue bushing. (Hot runner system would be overkill for this)
DME sells basic ones for under a grand. A basic temp controller if your dude doesn't have one is also cheap. Minor mods to fit. It's basically a much smaller od version of a sprue bushing that has a heater band wrapped around it with clearance for heat xfer. The tip will then stay the same diameter. From just the video it looks like you'd have 50% less scrap, and it will also decrease the cycle time. Make twice the parts with half the material!
Depending on what material, choose appropriate tips, to shut off. I.E. reverse taper for nylons.
Of course if your using cheap material or some regrind, and 5-10 seconds doesn't matter, then it may not be worth it.
What is the material your running, and what mold steel did you use?
15:08 That coolant line isn't going to do much good with a leak in it. Will be interesting to see how you fixed that. I'm guessing a weld.
Want to ask you how much gap is kept for air escape from cavity as plastic gets injected in it
I know this is a stupid question (sorry hah) but Is it necesary to be a engineer to get to work with machines like this? Or with being a mechanic (a really good one, of course) is enough?
Hi John,
You said that, "Yes, You can thread mill NPT with Fusion 360." Could you explain this? I have been searching like crazy and everything I find says Fusion won't do NPT and it is possibly on the list for future updates.
Two questions. These aren't about the machining, but more about the design. I was hoping you might know.
1) Why is this mold so big for such a small part?
2) If the mold had to be that big to fit the injector, then why didn't they design this to make at least a dozen more of the parts in each injection? This is for rubber parts. It's not like very slight temperature or density differences between them during molding would be a big deal.
Great video, BTW. I hope you get lots of business. That beast of yours looks hungry.
Hi John, thanks for posting the video, it was very detailed !!. How long did it take you guys to complete the machining from the time you received the mould till sampling the plastic parts
45 seconds in and I already learned more than I would from most 20 minute videos. I'll keep watching.
What was the reason for having the gate hidden? Could it not have been on the surface? How did you align the ejector pins? Did you use transfer punches or some other method?
I work in injection molding and tooling, sub gates like this are used so when the part ejects from the mold it automatically separates itself from the sprue, as well as leaving a cleaner finish than cutting the gate by hand. there are many different gate styles depending on part shape, plastic type, and a whole range of factors
Have you guys ever used edm machines to make cavaties?