What's Different About Today's Musicians?
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2022
- More conversation and playing from Greg Hutchinson and Christian McBride.
Check out the new Mastering Rhythm course with Greg Hutchinson, Christian McBride, Alexa Tarantino and more - openstudiojazz.link/rhythm
Part 1 here: "Who's In Charge of the Tempo?" - • Who's In Charge of the...
Learn more from Christian McBride - openstudiojazz.link/mcbride-bass
Learn more from Greg Hutchinson - openstudiojazz.link/hutch-drums 
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"What's wrong with being embarrassed?" Preach it!! I learned throw embarrassment away the moment I step on stage, took a long time. It's just ego/pride. I'm 62, trying to up my jazz game, and you guys are MY elders. This convo of masters is pure gold. Looking forward to more of these.
Working on this, too. Very well put!
Exactly where I’m at, as well!!
A treasure in the jazz tradition!
The problem these days is that people have “the entire world” in their pockets. Like literally! Back in the day if you could play it could give you some confidence and people knew you around the block..but now people compare themselves with the very best in the world.
It mostly just makes us all sound alike.
@@RatPfink66 Exactly. Indistinguishable dross in the rush to be good before you are good, to be heard before you have something to say, to be seen before you have something to show.
Ironically I think the word POCKET is what people have no interest in these days. Oh my... Those 4 bars of time at 0:19 👌👌 THAT is music. People are only interested in playing all the "licks" and fills they have learnt, but seem to have no interest in being a good musician 😢
I'd pay top dollar for an album of just these two playing straight 4/4 time. Their pocket is 👌
Man! This needs to be the start of somethin'. I could listen to you two talk like this for hours, and I hope I get to - again and again.
This will indeed be the start of something I think. It is presumably taken from Open Studio’s upcoming course “Rhythm Anthology” which I’ve been waiting with huge excitement for a while now. It will include many masters of the Open Studio, plus Melissa Aldana, Alexa Tarantino, and more… I’m highly stoked about this one…
Yeah make a podcast, a mini series or something open studio damn !
Until December 2021, we still had the incredibly generous and wise master Barry Harris. I am so glad I found his workshops in the last three years of his life. His passing leaves an enormous void.
Love barry just discovered him maybe a few month ago from the university youtube clips
the great Barry Harris a beautiful person ! RIP
I once was jamming with some folks, including the teenage son of one of the other musicians. I told him something about playing that I thought was just a throwaway line, then a few years later when I saw him again he said that it was one of the most helpful things anyone had told him about playing. You don't know what's going to help out a younger musician, just be there for them.
Agreed
....WHAT WAS THE LINE?!
what did you say?
@@Bass_Guy Beats me, it was years ago.
So glad for more of these great conversations , hope there’s more to come in this series. Fantastic
Great conversation. Thank you!
What a tremendous musical conversation. Thank you both.
At some point, one has to assume the mantle of the mentor not out of arrogance, hubris or ignorance but of out self-ownership and claiming of one's own experience. The present day jazz zeitgeist (much of it shaped by people born between 1955 and 1975) is an odd place, psychologically speaking, filled with a peculiar mix of self-deprecation and quiet arrogance. When I would spend time with the older musicians say ones born between 1925-1950, the warmth, the generosity of their individual personalities, was ever present. The transmissions of spirit, "TELLING IT LIKE IT IS", insights on The Hang, the rooting in fundamentals, the simplifying of complex concepts and the call to be your own self were CONSTANT messages from many of that generation. In the generation that followed, I have noticed an unwillingness to be "elders" but not even elders but to simply own what they have done and from that place and share. It is an odd kind of narcissism to hear your favorite players say "I'm not_______" when the way they inspire you says otherwise. It is type of deflection but also a passive aggressive way of saying "If I can't be this YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T BE THIS." It is the mark of arrogance and is WAY OUT of sync of the transmissions of the generation previous. Christian McBride has inspired a generation of players and has taken the ground laid by Ray Brown brought it to the next level. It does not mean he is "better than" Ray Brown. It means that each generation moves forward the work laid by the previous generation. Christian McBride does not exist without Ray Brown. Ray Brown is carried forward because of Christian McBride. It is symbiotic. One can own their greatness and impact not as a place of "I've arrived or I'm finished" but as a place to share, mentor and inspire from. Conversely, I have heard Ron Carter express that he did not listen to any particular bassist as a major influence and followed his own whims. (And mind you, Mr. Carter went to the same high school as Paul Chambers) And the irony is by taking this approach Mr. Carter became one of the most influential bassists ever. The music schools, workshops and social media have changed many things. There are all kinds of cats, doing amazing things on all the instruments. There is boundless things to be inspired by and to learn from old and new. They are musicians,while ailing, that are still connected to the music's Golden Age and if there is an opportunity to learn from them or to seek them out, this is invaluable. And there many others who are still alive and thriving physically like Ron Carter who at 85 STILL SOUNDS LIKE RON CARTER. And there are RUclips channels like this one and many others, who generously share knowledge for many to learn from. I believe there is value in both and one does not necessarily supersede the other, in my opinion. Humility is not self-deprecating, humility is knowing that there is always more to learn and glean from. Confidence is not arrogance or "I'm better than.." Confidence is rooting in what you know, have learned and experienced with a positive mindset as a means to express oneself. Thank you for this video. Much love to Open Studio, Hutch and one of my biggest inspirations Christian McBride.
Beautiful thoughts Evan, genuinely there is much wisdom being spread from this.
Well put Evan
I couldn’t said that beter i guess ! :)
So much truth right here! Thank you sir
Cory Wong is pretty good about this
This was really cathartic to hear. You guys really are the masters and getting to be a fly on the wall in this conversation was a blessing.
That snare sounds SO good. Thank you for the wonderful playing and deep wisdom.
This deserves an heartfelt praise, for the level of the musicians involved, their transparency and humbleness. A little, yet deep and much needed conversation.
Thank yall for this! Much appreciated!
I could listen to them discuss this stuff ALL DAY! 💜 Much love.
The in-person time - soaking up not just the words and theory, but the intentions and emotional content of what’s being done by the masters, and the musical impact it makes; listening and mastering more than the objective lesson - is where the most crucial learning occurs.
Gregory and Christian are absolute treasures. I hang on every word and every piece of advice. Listening to either or both playing will improve your playing, even if you are not a drummer or bass player!
The most real master classes I've ever heard! Love these classes!!!
Man! What you're saying is so true, even in terms of playing on a non-professional level as I do here in France, I keep staying in a state of nostalgia when people liking jazz would join in small clubs, cafés, restaurants, having real conversations between players and audience. Just the two of you sound so great... jazz is a universal music, you've made it so and so did many ancestors or yours. Love jazz, always will, Shakespearean tragedy turned into heaven, thank you jazz cats! Keep going!
I loved this whole thing, and there are some really good points to mull over. That being said, I would like to add some thoughts here as someone who was recently a jazz major. At least for me, half the reason that other students and myself didn't reach out to our "Modern Greats" was due to the fact that they were not discussed or included in the discussions at all. I love Christian McBride, but he was hardly ever brought up by our professors, and any transcriptions or work that we wanted to do that was inspired by him was passed off as not as good as Ray Brown's and so fourth. All of the musicians we were trained to emulate and appreciate were already dead. I even had a professor point blank say, "I spent a long time listening to the modern guys and realized that none of them had anything to offer that the older guys didn't do better." When Academia became gatekeeper to jazz itself, everything had to be passed under the eyes of administrations. Some were lucky and had really hip professors, but a lot of us didn't.
That line your professor said... I've heard so many people say it and it's complete shiite
Leave uni jazz. World opens up substantially.
So cool you're getting together to produce this wisdom and history.
Yes! Give us more of this please!
Tank you Christian and Gregory for this wonderful message and for the music. Yes, I agree with your statements about the influence of social media on the younger population of musicians. It's a paradigm shift in so many different ways. Being an educator for so many years has shown me how the student has changed in today's so-called classroom. The 'Me' generation used to be the 'Them' generation ,where we accepted what they had to say about music, musicianship and skill on one's instrument. We can only hope that young people learn to accept and respect the advice of the older 'cats', which we have all become. Again, thanks for the message and the playing. I love and respect you both for what you do and bring to the music.
Well said and well played gentlemen!!!!! Swingin'
You guys are changing my mind. I couldn't be more grateful!
If I’m being completely honest, I think theres more of a problem with older people thinking that young cats cant take criticism than there actually is. All the young cats I know who are actually good have lots of stories of being humbled by the older masters.
You guys are so great. Thank you a lot for this video.
So good! Absolutely love these videos.
Peter peaking out from the back of the piano😂😂😂. Thanks Maestros Christian and Hutch! Love y’all! Thankful for the wisdom of all of those older and more experienced🙏🏾❤️
Please for the love of swing, make more of this type of video.
You guys! Thank you!
I’m getting old ‘cause this is straight TRUTH 💯🙏🏽🤣
Pat Metheny has talked about how he always wanted to make music for his friends, not his parents. I think that sort of philosophy is why younger musicians are geared towards composing new music that draws from jazz, but also draws from rap/hip-hop, electronic music, indie rock, metal, etc... it's a musical language their generation can relate to. There are loads of great artists like this now days... Makaya McCraven, Elena and Samora Pinderhughes, Jon Batiste, Nate Smith, Butcher Brown, Kiefer, James Francies, Nubya Garcia, Anomalie, Thundercat, DOMi, Telemakus, Petter Eldh, etc.
You make music for your friends, enemies, parents, and management. They're not talking about making music, they're talking about learning music, the business, etc. In the same way the civilizations build on history, musicians reach their heights more quickly and solidly when you have mentors cluing you in.
Thank you so much I now have a list of artists to check out
@@RayParker Well said.
@@whippingstar Thank you!
You're wrong for all the wrong reasons.
Popularity is not a substitute for Art.
To think that John Babtist could hang with these guys on a serious jazz stage is
this video is so good, in so may ways! thank you!
Im in my early 30s and one thing I can tell you in response to what they’re saying is that overall, the bar, the stakes, the expectations and the consequences have seem to have been pushed and nowadays with attention economy and all that has reinforced this idea of overachievement and perfection that has been placed on people going through school in the 2000s. They turned the learning environment into a competitive space. These are some reasons why younger people have a lot more anxiety because it’s fostered by families and schools at an early age that you best isn’t good enough.
It’s nice to be humbled like this as a younger musician. There’s a lot of salient points they make and I struggle with some of them as well feeling like I can’t take criticism well. It’s really nice to have guides like this to look up to!! God that McBride solo was insane near the end.
People use to joke that AC/DC made a career doing the same song over and over again with different titles. Now the hot artists are doing that among different genres. The acts are even copying each other's style. It's like they want to be wealthy, but neither memorable or actually show their talent. It's like they want to be labeled as mediocre all the time than trash once in awhile.
THE BEST VIDEO ON RUclips! Thank you!!
I really share this idea, I'm not sure if it was Paquito D'Rivera or Michel Camilo who said: "if you think that you are done with what you can still learning, then you are done". I don't see myself as a musician who will be in a point where I can not still learning more about other musicians, and as Hutch said, we need to embrace criticism as a way of open even more our path through this beautiful process of learning music. Thank you so much guys for making this videos.
I'm grateful that I could see live Chick Corea, Brian Blade and Christian McBride in Valencia before Corea passed away, even I didn't had a chance to have a lesson with such a legend, seeing that Trio Concert already thought me su much about music and jazz improvisation.
Thank you again guys.
What a clinic. Bravo on the talk and the music, gentlemen.
I appreciate this so much and even though this came out about a year ago I've thought about it often. I think you guys nailed it. It goes to the first thing Christian said: it was a blessing that the elder Gen Xers could still find mentors of the Great Generation who were not only still active and playing though were often long time parents/statesmen/educators and performers that gave them their best. They could be tough though they were literally the generation known for caring about legacy.
For folks even five to ten years younger than Christian and Greg, life was often very different. Much of this coincides with the collapse of the Black Middle Class as well as overreaching education failings that essentially pulled music and art programs out of schools. This is not to mention that instead of Great Generation luminaries in every city willing and able to help, for younger folks it would have been having to navigate with Baby Boomers. I swear I'm not trying to beat them up though they've not been known as the "caring" or "legacy" generation.
What that meant is that while many of my elder Gen Xers had their "war stories" playing with the OGs and getting embarrassed, they also acknowledged the extreme level of help and encouragement they had that kept them coming. When many of "us" had "war stories" of being embarrassed at jams, stonewalled, or flat out undermined by baby boomers throughout every facet of the arts and education, we did not necessarily feel welcomed back. So one would ask: what's the difference between two musicians (even of the same era) where one has access to help while the other does not?
To the other point: under these more recent circumstances if a person has a desire to perform, write, record music yet feel their direct elders are (at best) ignoring them, freezing them out, and (at worse) outright making clowns of them, they have to make it their own way. No, the "product" will not be the same... and for those who were blessed to come up in such a special time where OGs cared enough to make sure they were educated, that's got to feel shameful. That's also not the Gen Xers fault for seeing the folks after them don't have the same tools in their belt early.
That's all to say, that I speak for myself in saying: I'm a self taught Jazz musician. I got into the form thanks to 70s fusion, post bop, thanks to Joni Mitchell, thanks to Frank Zappa. I didn't really "start" with "standards" and it was well into my playing that I was able to get the understanding of what a college educated musician would call "The Basics" (the blues, 2-5-1 understanding, Charlie Parker type "vocabulary"). Christian said it: it simply takes longer and is admittedly a more "backwards" way of learning this form to "play" first while you "learn on the job"... though for many of us that was the only option and is still a work in progress. It is a working labor of love. All of this said respectfully.
So happy McBride is a part of the Open Studio family. This cat drops Gems!
I absolutely needed this.
You guys are on the money. And I´M 77! This way of schooling is THE WAY!
Also the light in this video is beautiful
I wish I’d had access to people like this when I was growing up I’d have learned to have had the chance to absorb the knowledge .
What I wouldn't do as a middle-aged early-stage learner (in my fourth year of my own music learning journey) to have these amazing artists and masters of their craft as teachers, mentors, and friends. I could sit and absorb from them for decades. Incredible knowledge, experience, and most of all, wisdom. Such generosity of heart, too. They don't have to share all this with us, but that do, and for that I am most grateful.
This really chimed with me being a 55 year old Trumpeter (just for fun nowadays). I learned mostly from playing with and crucially listening to older players who have passed now and listening to the masters and emulating what I was hearing (mostly Miles). The young lions in my time were Wynton and Terence amongst others. Now I’m the older guy and feel a real responsibility to pass on my experience to younger players, many who are great technicians but don’t (yet) have the feel for the music. There’s no substitute for experience and listening and learning.
> don’t (yet) have the feel
It's the rhythm. Melody itself is rhythm. That's the bit which is passed on in person. It comes from language and dialect.
Thank you so much!!
Grateful for this! A couple of my fav trumpeters are no longer that because they’re too good to have a conversation
we call that pride and guess what? whenever you think that if i give out my skill or trick ,they will be greater than me,that makes you selfish and they forget that even if that person whom u gave the skill has gotten pride and greater it will never taake it away that he or she learnt from you meaning you are greater.
look at the teachers who taught us in school, many of students grew and got better earning jobs far bigger than theirs,that cant mean we are greater than them. Lastly they forget the other part of God's blessing.
Nice 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👌🏿👌🏿
Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
Great video. Thanks you.
Anyone 50 and above that has played this music for at least 3 decades are now the mentors
Love it !!
Absolutely nailed it. Agree 100%!
Love it!
I love Christian McBride, he’s my favorite musician and such a chill person
Selfless too. Saw him headline a show a couple wks ago and he stood back and pushed his new band of super young cats to own the show. He’s critical to where this type of music is going.
Really liked the color grading.
GREAT MENTORS!!!
THANK YOU!!
I feel u Hutch thanks for your hint
Just beautiful.
I met some older musicians.
At first, I thought I’d be learning from them but later down the line, I realized they were intimidated.
It would upset them and they would try to put me down. It actually limited my progress for awhile before I snapped out of it.
Pick your teachers wisely.
Same thing happened to me. It's crazy. Especially when they teach other musicians in your face and you just in the deep end with no life raft. It sucks.. No one talks about these toxic Master "teachers". Ive been put down continuously and humiliated and it's not from me getting the music wrong. They make it personal and I'm sitting the boggled. What happened to the music.
There are a lot of "teachers" who are competitive with their students. They too, have a lot to learn about humility. It takes most of us decades to realize that IT'S NOT ABOUT US. If we submit to the craft then maybe one day we'll be free enough to start to have an idea of what ART is.
There's little tradition of being able to pick your teachers at all.
What an important video. I watched it 3 times back to back. What's wrong with being embarrassed? Simple question, deep implications.
"Squatty Roo'" !!!
I love that song.
omg everything about this is amazing
Bravo. Time Traveler's. These men are so young at heart, they have time travelled.
Thank you
Thank you.
Every generation of jazz musicians sees themselves as never able to match the greats, but the truth is that modern jazz musicians, including these two, are as good as jazz musicians were previously. I don't buy that there will never be another Bird or Trane. There are people playing at that level now. Patrick Bartley is, in my opinion, as good an alto player as there has ever been.
Luigi Grasso too!
Absolutely. Patrick Bartley is carrying the torch. Insanity on the sax
I believe the idea of the "hero" is gone in music and that goes with all current genres. Also nobody is chasing a "new sound" even in prog. Rap/hip hop was the last genre and it's over 40 years-old.
i think the point is to be an innovator like the 2 you cited were. Parker's language of improvisation is still the most modern available
@@Tanauan I think there has been innovation since Parker. Certainly, there has been experimentation beyond what he was doing. There has also been a lot of fusion between jazz and other genres. But I question whether innovation is the best metric for measuring the quality of jazz musicians. Someone who can master the vocabulary of bop and use it as effectively as any of the greats is not simply playing the same stuff as them. That's a bit like saying that someone who masters the prose style of a generation of novelists can't write new novels.
One issue is that a lot of people can't afford to seek out teachers. Not even the nicest or most generous teacher will give a student their time for free, and someone who doesn't have the money/resources to develop themselves with good teachers will inevitably either go their own way musically and go through the uphill battle of self-teaching or just give up. I was never able to afford even the most basic music teacher. This is pretty common. Lotta extremely destitute people in the US. A lot of people just don't have the extra money for a teacher.
You got the point 👌
Thank you so much!
I almost die with the peeking 🤣
Honored 🏄🏻♀️
these guys are the best.
A thousand stars review for this! You said it all, and the youngun's need to be silent, listen closely and take it all in.
THE POWER OF CONNECTION!
EPIC!
Real talk. 🙌🏻
I remember Mulgrew Miller telling me a story about Master McBride at a club called Upstairs in Montreal... You guys are the cats and will always be the cats.. The ones before you handed you the torch!
This conversation is great to hear, it's just unfortunate that we are now in a period where so many people have Music Diplomas earned in degree factories that all they can do is create more teachers and players for a world that doesn't exist any more, and not just in jazz. Music used to be the core interest of many participants, including audiences. Now many make themselves their own core interest and we see this everywhere.
Love the discussion here guys, the bit at 8:15 made me laugh
Ohhh Wee y’all Swanga Langing!!! Felt great
Thanks guys for the video what you said is so true about be humble be criticized it can only make you grow
Awesome words from the Masters. Can someone tell me whats the name of the tune they played please?
I think the old cats got to play to an audience that really appreciated what they did and honed their skills at the same time. Today, as you pointed out, is a social media audience and I think this changes the relationship between musicians and audience. The appreciation is and can a distant one and also the original cats were competing with each other and having fun doing so. Getting those records out to be heard was also the media relationship, but now it’s all too easy.
People still go out to listen live music.
Also, a lot of cats from 80s onward aren’t known/are forget due to content creators focus on either the GOATS or exciting fresh blood. Partially due to the ease of getting audio/video recordings.
I agree 1000 percent.
I've been spouting this in Milwaukee
for 20 yes.
Didn't just start recently.
Social media has put the ego so far out of line....
Only problem with you cats is you've waited too long to spout off.
Keeping the faith in the Midwest.
Peace
Well I’m reaching out now , how do we get to speak to you guys without crossing the boundaries? As an adult male im not a college student or a high school student . I go to the show i hear about some workshop the artist did that day before his concert .this is my hobby of interest and it’s hard to find a mentor or advisor that don’t necessarily have to teach but give input . I saw Peter Martin come to Houston and i was like damn i was this guys videos
its just expanded to a point where there doesnt need to be "mentors" per se, we still study and look up to the greats of many genres but not in a dogmatic and insular way. instead of gatekeeping its the opposite, whatever people like gets popular regardless of talent sometimes, and theres a plethora of music that has a ridiculous amount of skill and complexity attatched, the room is open for it all now.
Nice
That'll preach!
applause nice one Gents
this video redeemed the entire internet for me today.
Playing standards or playing any song in any key is fundamental to develop ear, applying music theory and undertand more that you can think of. I’ve done this with autum leaves and let me tell you, you develop and increase your jazz vocabulary. Go ahead and try it
Geez, I can’t believe that person was so offended by what Christian did to the volunteer. They must’ve never heard of what George Coleman used to do 😂 that volunteer got it pretty easy 😜
how not to love these guys
dig these chats
Who are you guys mentoring? It's great and all to talk about the importance of a mentor in one's artistic journey but there are so many amazing artists your age that only play with the same people you have been playing with for the last 30 years. There are only a few established cats that actually seek out and play with the younger people. We need mentors but it seams there aren't too many willing to give.
This is precisely the problem I pointed out in the Singaporean Jazz scene, and I got called out and shamed on Facebook for it.
I mean some of Christian's best bands are made of him and younger artists, dont know about other artists but Chris is definitely fostering new talents
@@crafalgar9719 yeah I was about to say some of his big bands have undergrads/grad students and not as well known, but really killer musicians in them.
STRAIGHT TALK!!!!!!!
I tried to get Ahmad Jamal to adopt me but I was 22 and my parents objected.
I'd fly down to open studio any day