I came here for my hero, Christian McBride, but I gotta give it up for this interviewer. He asked the right questions at the right time, and he didn’t interrupt Christian. He let the man speak. Well done, sir.
you prolly dont give a shit but does someone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Roman Stetson thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
2:47 - Funny that he tells that story. The late Kenny Drew, Jr. once wrote in a letter to a Jazz mag I read that once on a gig of his, George Coleman showed up, out of nowhere, asked to sit in and started of call out obscure tunes in weird keys, at breakneck tempos, vibing him off, giving him looks while he played, just to purposely throw him off and make him look bad. After the set, Drew went up to him, called him out on the deliberate attempt of on stage embarrassment, and in no uncertain terms said if Coleman ever did that again, he would get his ass kicked real good, physically speaking. George left for the night, came beck during the next night's last set, eyeing the stage from afar for a few minutes, turned around and never came back to another gig of Drew's. The story told in this video makes me think that despite being a really great sax player, George might have had some unresolved personal grudges, and some big chip on his shoulder. Why would he be so mean to his fellow musicians, especially since these situations were not 'Cutting Sessions'?...7:35 - Words of Wisdom. 'Mastering the art of People' is 50% of any trade. If you ain't got any of that chances are you're not going very far no matter how many 'melodic patterns' or 'chops' you got.
Glad there was accountability because that sort of crap left unchecked is toxic. Hope Coleman was able to sort his stuff out. But some people take their chips to bed with them.
@@zahiircruz9178 I can't find a way of justifying Coleman's approach no matter even if we had some way of ascertaining what he might be 'feeling'. Objectively it sounds like Coleman didn't care if he embarassed another musician. If that is so, then it is regrettable. Granted, few are in Coleman's class but it really would be much more considerate for such a giant to try to ensure these sort of situations, which most people find excruciating, don't arise. The fact that Coleman has a reputation of making no attempt to avoid them doesn't detract in any way from his musical ability but does make him, objectively, a rather unpleasant person to have to accompany. If Christian McBride gets caught by this sort of behaviour, no-one is safe. I bet he doesn't and wouldn't do it but then he has nothing to prove and probably doesn't feel like he has anything to prove.
@@zahiircruz9178 By 'his approach' you must mean trying to embarrass people on stage? I sure never met the guy, so i don't REALLY know how he felt about the 'world' or deep inside.or if he was 'a mean, bitter person' or whatever. But actions speak volumes..And anyone who pulls this type of shit in my book shows at least a part of his character. Miles would never pull that kind of shit in other people's gig, although he sure did it to the paid musicians in his own bands, who were there working for him, out of their own free will. McBride was being a diplomat and mincing words, something that Drew never did. But don't try and lecture me about this being 'merely' because Drew, Jr. and McBride 'didn't care 'for his approach'. The only 'approach' that is valid in this case is ' musical approach'. And that is definitely not the 'approach in question. If Drew made a point of writing that letter is because he must have felt sincerely deeply hurt and embarrassed by Coleman, most because Coleman IS a great player and would never have been invited on stage by Drew, if Drew himself didn't respect and admire him, musically speaking... Some of the greatest musicians are most generous and caring and even when they have to show a player 'a lesson', it's done w/ care and empathy, even if it might be a stingy music -wise. So yeah, I can have at least pretty good impression that Coleman might not be the most caring, empathetic, player and that the band stand was often a place for him to vent his 'musical superiority'. So please.take your own speculation somewhere else.
Read about a similar experience in an issue of Jazz Times interviewing Branford Marsalis that he had had in his younger years back. No name was mentioned, but while at a jam they called a tune in a ridiculous key; and way up. Branford said he just walked off the stage. The implication of his doing so was not out of embarrassment, just wasn’t having any of that. Obviously secure enough in himself not to have to do “the macho thing.”
My George Coleman experience. I was part of a house band in Westport Connecticut back in the 70s. George was the featured player that night. He was for the most part cool, but early in the first set, he called 'Avalon', most often played in Eflat. It was fast, but not impossible. Everything was under the fingers of everyone. But then. without a word or signal, he changed keys in the next chorus--not too far away, just up a half-tone to E major! Luckily, I had practiced alot in those keys, so I really didn't have any trouble with the key, not so sure about the bass player--might have been Frank Luther. We stayed in E till the end of the song! He never said a word good, bad or ugly about it either!
Back in the 80s I was a long hair head banger. I used to go for long drives just to listen to Testament, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, ect ect. Whatever cassettes I had with me. While driving I happen to catch a listen to a radio station out of Oxford Ohio. It was Mama Jazz talking about and playing jazz standards on her radio show. That’s when I caught a listen to Pat Martino, Cal Collins, West Montgomery, and all kinds of jazz oriented music. My driving around listening to “headbanging music” quickly changed to driving around listening to jazz standards and others. And just before typing this message I heard this guy playing while listening to Music Choice Jazz on channel 945. I was trying to nap but this guy caught my ear. Great player!
Yep, doesn't happen super often but there's a handful of cats even today that do this. The other funny thing is if you pass their test, they just look for the next thing to try and screw you up on.
I really appreciate Christian as a Jazz artist because he is humble, funny, honest, a teacher, a jazz historian and just similar to Wynton and they are the modern masters forwarding jazz with class and style. They have great musical experience and the great stories. Much appreciated!
I'll always remember catching the last night of Bradley's storied existence. It was October 16, 1996 and Roy Hargrove had the gig, celebrating his birthday, with Kenny Barron on piano and Ben Riley on drums. I don't recall who was on bass. They played three sets, and luminaries including Chucho Valdez and Bobby Watson came in and tore it up in the later sets. When they finished, around 1am, everyone just bid Bradley's goodbye and walked out. I have a recording of it somewhere.
1am??...... What are talking about? Last set at Bradley's officially ended at 2:30am and often musicians played till 3am and even later. You were lucky to get home at 4 or 5am.
Bradleys was WONDERFUL!!! I used to go every night back in the day. The duos were always amazing. Christian played on the Joe Jackson album "The Duke" as did I. I've always regretted that we did not play our parts at the same time. Christian is a wonderful player and a fellow LaBella endorser. Great interview..
I've heard similar. And Christian talking about his experiences here make me wonder about his presence and what it must have been like to play onstage with him. My guess is amazing, but also terrifying in a way to hear such lucid variations on a theme while you're playing.
In college we did a week long series of concerts and clinics at regional high schools and at the university with Ed Soph, Rufus Reid, Don Menza, Alan Broadbent and Mike Barone. That first day was miserable as Ed and Rufus just tore me down completely. But this week was special. We spent time with these guys on the bus, eating, partying and were part of each rehearsal, clinic and concert. Toward the end of the week Ed and Rufus were building me back up and basically telling me that they were spending that week getting me to release my insecurities and point me in the right direction. They appreciated the fact that I didn't take negative criticism personally nor let any praise go to my head. I learned a ton that week and remained in touch with Ed for a couple years and he even invited me to crash a couple Aebersold clinics he was participating in so we could hang. These guys started out telling us that we were pretty good but not quite as good as we thought we were. They worked hard with us that week and really put us through our paces and the transformation was incredible. As a band and as individuals, we improved tenfold over the course of that week.
Man... this isn’t only in jazz.. I gotten it in Salsa as well.. This is why I don’t show up and shed yet.. I love jazz but need much more work... Putting in the work. I loved this interview. I totally respect Christian McBride, beast of a musician and great guy apparently. One day, I will hear him live and meet him.
It also depends on where you live. Some places are inviting and fun to go regardless of how you sound while others are surrounded by terrible attitudes/over the top shredding of people. It might be worth it to scope out a few places in the area and see the attitudes first...or just practice, nothing wrong with that.
Great story. And wasn’t it George Coleman who I read complaining about Miles Davis and how he would dress him down on stage night after night? Shizzle rolls dizzle hizzle, I guess... I have also learned from every bandleader I’ve worked for, and every boss I’ve had, either how to do it, or how _not_ to do it.
And that is failure indeed. PS- I just realized I may have misattributed that story. I think it may have been Cecil McBee! Nonetheless, the principle stands.
Christian is telling the truth here. When I was 18 at Music school I went to the jazz jam in the hip part of town recommended by my Bass teacher Tom Hazlit. He said bring your fake book and stand you'll do great. So there I go walking into the classical joint jazz bar in gas town all confident ready to prove my greenhorn self with the big boys. Well I was greeted by the host and was noticed by everyone due to my age etc and was told no fake book if you know the tunes you play if you dont know one you get off the stage and someone else goes up. They took it easy on me for 2 tunes and then they said ok lets do joy spring well that was it I did the walk off the stage of shame. Humbled and grateful of a lesson learned.
I like that he didn’t excuse George Coleman’s actions. I’ve been in that situation (not as bad) and it is crushing to your self esteem. I’ll never treat a younger person like that
@ Christian McBride: Sir, I don't know you... but thanks for the stories. I was lucky-enough to live fairly near the legendary Jazz Showcase in Chicago for many years, and saw a lot of great shows and performers. Got to see the late legendary Johnny Griffin at the Jazz Showcase back in the early-2000s when he made a rare trip to the U.S. from his home in Paris, France. I can't recall the cats in the band, but it was just him on tenor and a piano trio with bass and drums. Griffin visited pleasantly with the audience now-and-again, but he didn't say anything to the musicians! Didn't call the names of the tunes, the tempos, the keys, none of it! He just blasted off and they had to hang on for dear life. The piano player in particular - Griffin really went after that kid ("kid" - he was maybe 25 years old), but he must have done something right because whatever the "Little Giant" threw at him, he could handle. I wish I could give all of those guys some well-deserved props, because they hung with a legend every step of the way. Griffin himself, well, let's just say that he was on fire that night. He may have been in his seventies by then, but you'd be hard-pressed to know it listening to him. I'll remember that show as long as I live.
This trial by fire on the bandstand is what builds the backbone of the upcoming and green musicians. My father was a world class guitar player who played with the likes of James Brown, Etta James, Taj Mahal and many other legendary players and his approach with me as a green bass player who thought could play at the highest level was to take me out into the deep water and let me sink or swim with no safety line to grab. I would be so furious and embarrassed at the same time I was trying to hold on and tread water and usually drowning in the end. I know now that it was nothing more than as he would say “putting leather on your ass” and I’m grateful that I have those experiences that shaped my character as a player and I don’t have many moments where I go down in flames with other musicians after his hard lessons given on the spot. Things like playing a long intro with no clues as to what he’s playing or what the root was and then on top of that he wouldn’t come in on the 1, he would be on the iV making it seem like he was playing the root which now as a bass player backing a guitar player improvising and with a lot to say, I was playing the changes completely backwards and confusing the I and the iV until I could either get it under my hands or the train came off the tracks. As painful as it was for me I truly cherish those moments that shaped me and I would give anything to have just one more set of drowning on stage with him as I look back and smile about it now. I think this is a common indoctrination for musicians and the best place for learning and honing your craft is on the bandstand.
right on..its necessary to have those trial by fire lessons as well as having your hand..sadly the trend now adays is that there are no mistakes and we are all good in our own way with way to much babying but then if these same people dont like you they cancel you out forever..either they baby you or your dead to them,..i dont like either was when they are too extreme.. you play bass ? taj mahal saw me play upright bass and said he i was the greatest bass player he seen since jaco pastorius !!! and that's no lie! wanna hear shred the upright ?? ruclips.net/video/b-QA3CDqW7A/видео.html
If one just imagines some of the other (late) greats coming in there, then the story wouldn't have been the same. Musicians such as the late John Coltrane, Jackie McLean or Lee Morgan (etc) were nothing but open and helpful to all who wished to make music. I guess what we get from this story is that George Coleman is clearly a bully and a sad man, not a great saxophonist. Luckily, we also get to see that Chris McBride is a kind and friendly bassist and a great musician, which comes across in his music.
This story definitely makes Coleman seem like a dick, but that has nothing to do with whether he is a great player. It’s foolish to equate personality with talent/facility.
George Coleman is actually a GREAT saxophonist; his music and musicianship ranks up there among the finest sax players. One can quite easily hear that by simply listening to his body of recorded performances. However, I cannot speak to his personality and character since I have never personally met the man and have no direct observations from which to base an opinion. For that type of an evaluation, I must rely on the judgement of others who actually worked with him and encountered him in private and professional settings. Nevertheless, even if the character/personality judgement is negative, it still doesn’t negate the fact that he is one hell of a musician.
Here's what you took well over 100 words to say in 24 words. Coleman is a great player notwithstanding any bad behaviour attributed to him. I can't judge accounts of his behaviour because I never met him.
Using humiliation or abuse as a teaching method is terrible. Unless it's needed for exposing something corrupt or criminal, it's the worst way to get the "best" out of somebody. Even though some artists will point to a humiliating moment as a turning point, for many it has a scarring effect. Like the primitive action of bullying, it just doesn't fit in the realm of human advancement.
@@kennyr1161 I'm not "too sensitive". Not in the least. Especially when I get to humiliate a bully by making him or her hold a huge allergen-free Barney doll while handing out participation medals to all the kids who came in last at a kitten petting contest.
@@kennyr1161 I agree & see where you're coming from. And when you consider all the marvelous players in the history of this music who didn't have someone holding their hands on the bandstand, events like this served to make them woodshed more. Minton's - where Bop was being created on a nightly basis was the spot where musicians- like Dizzy, Howard McGhee, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, etc... would call crazy tempos, etc.. to get a new player off that backstand who's chops wasn't up to par. Because with all that creativity flowing from Bird & Diz, Bud & Monk, & vocalists like Sassy, Carmen McRae, & Betty Carter who sang complex lines of bop as well or better than some of their fellow musicians - that bandstand was considered sacred & serious & if a young muscian wasn't ready for that yet & they were serious about this music, they eventually reloaded & came back and made their own contributions to the art form. For those who packed things away for good seems like that weeding out was part of the process as well. I can remember reading where Miles said while he & Max Roach was in Bird's band and trying to keep pace with him on that live bandstand & he saying to Bird: 'Man what do you even need us up here for'? Now speed ahead some years later to Bird's passing in 1955 & in conversation with Roach as they're remembering the fallen giant. Miles: "Damn Max , he died before we could get even!" As both having come up nightly against that genius of Bird, was much better musicians/leaders as a result.
Bop City, San Francisco, around 1961. Bass player goes onstage to jam. The tenor player calls Cherokee at a ridiculous up tempo. About 8 bars in the bass player is scuffling. Eddie Kahn walks onstage, takes the bass out the guys hands and plays the tune. Still, that's better than bringing everybody down.
Check out McBride's great radio show "Conversations With Christian" on Sirius XM channel 67 noon on Saturdays. He has great guests; they play together and talk about jazz. This week (11/21/2020) his guest was Monty Alexander, who told some fascinating stories. If you like jazz, don't miss this one.
I assumed Christian McBride would be the kind of guy who doesn't swear but I really liked his "Oh shit, here we go". It's a shame about George Coleman's attitude because he's such a great player. I wonder if he's scratching his head wondering why the popularity of jazz is declining.
Years ago I heard on a radio show that MIles would say to people right in front of George that he wished he had Sonny Rollins back in the band. It was just MIles shitting on George. So maybe George was givin' what he had to take back in the day. I saw George with Harold Maybern in the late 80s. They did Mack the Knife at a killer tempo, and George took choruses through all the keys. I never saw anyone else do that live. George was a badass.
Soooo true. Everyone, but bass and drums can float on top. Bass needs to be ON. Already too late if you need to hear another player to know where the chords are going.
I’m an old working pro. I spent a good part of my life in cover bands playing in bars 9:00-1:30, six days a week. However, on Sunday because I wanted to play jazz, I would head on up (I was in the OC) to LA to sit in with some jazz groups. I made a habit of sitting in on Sundays at Vina’s, a small club in LA. Vina had their own Hammond B-3 and drum set on stage and on one Sunday, the organist was trying to get rid of this sax player who kept playing blues licks over every single jazz tune, so he started playing Giant Steps. This is many years ago and I had never played the Coltrane tune…..and obviously, neither had the sax player and when the sax player started playing his blues licks, the organist moved the tune up a half-step. The saxophonist turned, gave the organist a nasty look and stopped playing. Then the organist looked at me like it’s my turn to blow…..and at that time I hadn’t played one note yet and shook my head “no” no solo for me. That was my introduction to Giant Steps.
Mr, McBride-"I would never want to embarrass anyone on the bandstand like that." A jazz gentleman-No lack of respect from me. That mean bullshit is just the epitome of ego gone bad.
you're lucky...people love you and they acknowledge your talent..so i won't sweat you this time cuz i got a george coleman story..i played with bishop norman williams like twice a week for about 15 years in san francisco and george came to play with us and you know me i will shred the best of them and george saw this so when he came up to play he tried to cut out my bass solo by heading the tune out and heck did i not let him do that..i proceeded to solo over his playing the melody and then on the next tune when it was his solo i played all the correct changes only out of tune and george kept stopping and kinda looking around and listening but he couldnt figure out what was wrong and i did that to him for every song he played with us..it was great cuz he deserved it..i little hint to all jazz soloists.. don't ever piss off the bass player cuz you'll be sorry !! we hold your fate in our hands sp don't you forget that !!! respect !! wanna hear me shred uprightbass? ruclips.net/video/b-QA3CDqW7A/видео.html
Get the "Peanut Gallery" everywhere, tossers who never played a lick and think because they at every local jazz gig for years and know everyone that makes their opinion real important for you to hear
I heard another George Coleman story that ended with the pianist telling him that if George ever did that again he would be trying to play the sax with busted chops. George never did it again, with that guy anyway.
This sort of story is so commonplace in jazz communities and I've always found it odd, as someone who has been involved with rock, metal, instrumental progressive music scenes, as well as jazz in my younger years. This kind of play of deliberately embarrassing others would be viewed entirely as 'asshole' material in other music communities, and IMO, rightly so. There's a massive difference between cooking a show and feeling bad about it in private, and publicly humiliating someone. Both can teach a lesson, but the former is a lesson in self-reflection, the other can very easily turn into a matter of improvement through spite, which isn't sustainable or healthy for the mind. That's how you breed the next generation of bitter people. 'I learned the hard way, so can you.' - Sorry, a one-size-fits-all approach is the worst teaching method out there. In fact, it's not even a method at all. To me, the jazz scene has always had a subset of people that view the music like a competition; people comparing their capabilities to one another, trying to outdo one another, outplay or outwit each other musically. This is obviously just a subset, but I see it often enough that it turns me off the scene overall. I think jazz is a beautiful thing and lots of good music has come out of the genre for 80 straight years, but some people stopped valuing the music as music, and started viewing it as a way to display their prowess. It's sad and childish to me, and ruins what would otherwise be an amazing thing.
The good thing is that new people come along and they have studied the pioneers and ignored the ego part of it. These individuals are the true inheritors of jazz music.
@@kennyr1161 You can learn to be humble from humble people more effectively IMO. I know people in my own city who were driven out of the community and chose to pursue other things entirely due to being poorly treated, and I don't blame them. You can learn both respect and become a better musician through positive reinforcement, and all evidence we have suggests this.
I’ve seen guys do that. Kinda kills the vibe of the session. Some guys don’t mind it, some guys hate it. I wouldn’t do that to someone and wouldn’t want it done to me. This stuff should be fun for everybody on stage trying to better themselves in the language. I realize thats what some guys did back then, but that doesn’t make it right. Seemed like some bully shit to me. Playing music should me pure joy. I know it is to Me
There's a story in the Miles Davis autobiography where some fellow 🎺 playing cat comes on the bandstand and ✂s miles head off! The next night 🌙 he comes and trys it again but this time miles was ready and made him look bad! Apparently the first time he played first and was polite and went easy on him and dude took advantage! The next night he had the dude play first then ✂ him up! Sorry I can't remember the trumpet 🎺 players name. I just remember the story.
There's a reason why Jazz lost so much popularity & it's spelled E-G-O. Yes, I'll put all the blame that's deserved on the money men & the "dumbing down" of the marketplace, but too many Jazz players began to just look to impress each other. I'm not saying that they owe it to the masses to dumb down Jazz, but there was a time when the greats were able to find a way to remain somewhat accessible to more listeners without selling out. Plenty of people knew who Dizzy Gillespie & Miles & Brubeck were, even though Elvis was huge, too. Now? How many "average people" can name 2 or 3 big contemporary Jazz players. Can we rightly blame it ALL on Rap, or Capitalism or whatever?
@ pyannaguy: Seventy-five or more years ago, jazz musicians were once also popular musicians, during the big-band era and before. They saw themselves as entertainers and not just as artists. Count Basie, Duke Ellington, The Dorsey Brothers, Benny Goodman, and others. However, with the birth of modern jazz/bebop, that all changed. The cats creating the music saw themselves as serious artists and not panderers to the masses - which is how some of the beboppers described guys like Louis Armstrong. Guys like Miles Davis - there's no denying that there was an arrogance, a hostile edge that said take it or leave it, I don't care - about them. And those guys made a virtue out of being able to play tunes so complex and challenging that the old-timers (many of them, anyway) couldn't cut it. Playing standards like "Cherokee" at ridiculous tempos and cycling them through all twelve keys, not because the audience liked it - but because they wanted to prove who was good-enough to be on the band-stand and keep the pretenders away. There was also an undeniable racial component to it. The post-war era marked the beginning of the civil rights era, and modern jazz saw itself as a part of that. Avant-garde music and politics mixed. Popular music has to be entertaining. That fact bothers some people, including jazz musicians, but popular entertainment must first and foremost entertain. Statement of fact. People will tolerate only a certain amount of alienation and abuse from a performer, even a supremely talented one, before giving up in disgust. If Joe Sixpack wanted to be abused and ignored, he'd go to work, not see a Miles Davis show, know what I mean? The alienation of hardcore jazz musicians - the beboppers - from mainstream society - coupled with the rise of hugely profitable and much more popular forms of music such as rock-and-roll, spelled economic doom for jazz as a mainstream music. Sixty years ago, most big cities had thriving jazz club scenes, but today, viable jazz clubs are a rarity even in big cities. It's really a shame, that such a beautiful music isn't more-popular and better-known, but honestly compels me to admit that down through the years jazz musicians themselves bear a lot of the blame. But seeing someone as well-spoken, courteous, and talented as Christian McBride fills me with hope for the future that maybe things aren't lost after all. That it is possible to be a gentleman and a great jazz musician at the same time.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Well put! And a lot of it can be summed up (if it had to be) by your words: >>but honestly compels me to admit that down through the years jazz musicians themselves bear a lot of the blame.
I heard a story about Sonny Stitt played in a club in Richmond ,Virginia in the 1960s. He was playing in this club and a local hotshot sax player came in ,and wanted to sit in on "Cherokee". Sonny let the cat sit in,but as he was counting it off,Sonny called the tune in B natural, and the local guy was scuffling.So a few months later, Sonny comes back to play at this club,the same sax player comes in (who had been working on Cherokee and learned to play it in B.This time as Sonny counted it of ,he called in A natural.
@@UkuleleAversion the kid started whining when I asked him to play something differently form the first time. He kept yelling, "That's not what you told me last time!!!!" He couldn't hear that I liked trying things different ways so I finally told him if he can't follow direction to just quit immediately.....and then the suicide speech.
..damn, you white,..so am I but dammnn..anyway you just did an interview with a jazz GIANT so....subscription (you certainly deserve many, many more with content like..), good luck with..🎵🖤
I came here for my hero, Christian McBride, but I gotta give it up for this interviewer. He asked the right questions at the right time, and he didn’t interrupt Christian. He let the man speak. Well done, sir.
scissors
Yes. Active without being intrusive or overbearing.
Bass players are the "first responders" of jazz. Always first on the scene of the accident.
Word!!!
Oh, man... I read that as "Always first on the scene of the "accidental" lol
you prolly dont give a shit but does someone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Vihaan Matteo instablaster ;)
@Roman Stetson thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
McBride could narrate audiobooks if he needs a side job...
He does have a rich, beautiful voice.
“New from Audible: Christian McBride narrates Fifty Shades of Grey”
Christian McBride is a hip dude, period.
"Larry was getting mad cuz he realized those changes dont make a song." 😂
Always a great feeling being around the Great Christian McBride . Love and Respect ✊🏾
"Shut up. You don't know what the hell you're talking about." Perfect lmao!
"Making people feel good" = the basis of entertaining whether in front of the stage or on the stage. Thank you, Christian McBride.
2:47 - Funny that he tells that story. The late Kenny Drew, Jr. once wrote in a letter to a Jazz mag I read that once on a gig of his, George Coleman showed up, out of nowhere, asked to sit in and started of call out obscure tunes in weird keys, at breakneck tempos, vibing him off, giving him looks while he played, just to purposely throw him off and make him look bad. After the set, Drew went up to him, called him out on the deliberate attempt of on stage embarrassment, and in no uncertain terms said if Coleman ever did that again, he would get his ass kicked real good, physically speaking. George left for the night, came beck during the next night's last set, eyeing the stage from afar for a few minutes, turned around and never came back to another gig of Drew's. The story told in this video makes me think that despite being a really great sax player, George might have had some unresolved personal grudges, and some big chip on his shoulder. Why would he be so mean to his fellow musicians, especially since these situations were not 'Cutting Sessions'?...7:35 - Words of Wisdom. 'Mastering the art of People' is 50% of any trade. If you ain't got any of that chances are you're not going very far no matter how many 'melodic patterns' or 'chops' you got.
Glad there was accountability because that sort of crap left unchecked is toxic. Hope Coleman was able to sort his stuff out. But some people take their chips to bed with them.
ayoungethan Hope this "vibe" culture and stuff stops. It's doing absolutely nothing.
Coleman is still kickin' BTW.
@@zahiircruz9178 I can't find a way of justifying Coleman's approach no matter even if we had some way of ascertaining what he might be 'feeling'. Objectively it sounds like Coleman didn't care if he embarassed another musician. If that is so, then it is regrettable.
Granted, few are in Coleman's class but it really would be much more considerate for such a giant to try to ensure these sort of situations, which most people find excruciating, don't arise. The fact that Coleman has a reputation of making no attempt to avoid them doesn't detract in any way from his musical ability but does make him, objectively, a rather unpleasant person to have to accompany. If Christian McBride gets caught by this sort of behaviour, no-one is safe. I bet he doesn't and wouldn't do it but then he has nothing to prove and probably doesn't feel like he has anything to prove.
@@zahiircruz9178 By 'his approach' you must mean trying to embarrass people on stage? I sure never met the guy, so i don't REALLY know how he felt about the 'world' or deep inside.or if he was 'a mean, bitter person' or whatever. But actions speak volumes..And anyone who pulls this type of shit in my book shows at least a part of his character. Miles would never pull that kind of shit in other people's gig, although he sure did it to the paid musicians in his own bands, who were there working for him, out of their own free will. McBride was being a diplomat and mincing words, something that Drew never did. But don't try and lecture me about this being 'merely' because Drew, Jr. and McBride 'didn't care 'for his approach'. The only 'approach' that is valid in this case is ' musical approach'. And that is definitely not the 'approach in question. If Drew made a point of writing that letter is because he must have felt sincerely deeply hurt and embarrassed by Coleman, most because Coleman IS a great player and would never have been invited on stage by Drew, if Drew himself didn't respect and admire him, musically speaking... Some of the greatest musicians are most generous and caring and even when they have to show a player 'a lesson', it's done w/ care and empathy, even if it might be a stingy music -wise. So yeah, I can have at least pretty good impression that Coleman might not be the most caring, empathetic, player and that the band stand was often a place for him to vent his 'musical superiority'. So please.take your own speculation somewhere else.
Read about a similar experience in an issue of Jazz Times interviewing Branford Marsalis that he had had in his younger years back. No name was mentioned, but while at a jam they called a tune in a ridiculous key; and way up. Branford said he just walked off the stage. The implication of his doing so was not out of embarrassment, just wasn’t having any of that. Obviously secure enough in himself not to have to do “the macho thing.”
What a legend.
Not even "Macho"
Haha I freaking died when he said it wasn’t actually a song. That’s so funny and so unnecessary. I just hope nothing like that ever happens to me
Ain't a good feeling and leaves nasty memories.
My George Coleman experience. I was part of a house band in Westport Connecticut back in the 70s. George was the featured player that night. He was for the most part cool, but early in the first set, he called 'Avalon', most often played in Eflat. It was fast, but not impossible. Everything was under the fingers of everyone. But then. without a word or signal, he changed keys in the next chorus--not too far away, just up a half-tone to E major! Luckily, I had practiced alot in those keys, so I really didn't have any trouble with the key, not so sure about the bass player--might have been Frank Luther. We stayed in E till the end of the song! He never said a word good, bad or ugly about it either!
Frank says thanks
Back in the 80s I was a long hair head banger. I used to go for long drives just to listen to Testament, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, ect ect. Whatever cassettes I had with me. While driving I happen to catch a listen to a radio station out of Oxford Ohio. It was Mama Jazz talking about and playing jazz standards on her radio show. That’s when I caught a listen to Pat Martino, Cal Collins, West Montgomery, and all kinds of jazz oriented music. My driving around listening to “headbanging music” quickly changed to driving around listening to jazz standards and others. And just before typing this message I heard this guy playing while listening to Music Choice Jazz on channel 945. I was trying to nap but this guy caught my ear. Great player!
This guy is so solid and chill it's incredible.
Yep, doesn't happen super often but there's a handful of cats even today that do this. The other funny thing is if you pass their test, they just look for the next thing to try and screw you up on.
Beautiful conversation guys about common courtesy and sharing the love.
I really appreciate Christian as a Jazz artist because he is humble, funny, honest, a teacher, a jazz historian and just similar to Wynton and they are the modern masters forwarding jazz with class and style. They have great musical experience and the great stories. Much appreciated!
wynton is more of a racist than christian so probably not a good compliment
I'll always remember catching the last night of Bradley's storied existence. It was October 16, 1996 and Roy Hargrove had the gig, celebrating his birthday, with Kenny Barron on piano and Ben Riley on drums. I don't recall who was on bass. They played three sets, and luminaries including Chucho Valdez and Bobby Watson came in and tore it up in the later sets. When they finished, around 1am, everyone just bid Bradley's goodbye and walked out. I have a recording of it somewhere.
find that recording and post. pleeease! ty . -S
@@stuartweissman7306 It's three hour-long sets. But that would be cool if I can find the discs...
damn what a story, I second the posting of the recordings!
1am??...... What are talking about? Last set at Bradley's officially ended at 2:30am and often musicians played till 3am and even later. You were lucky to get home at 4 or 5am.
@@vova47 No, the last set at Bradley's officially ended at 3AM!!! The sets were 10, 12 and 2AM. Seven nights a week!
Bradleys was WONDERFUL!!! I used to go every night back in the day. The duos were always amazing. Christian played on the Joe Jackson album "The Duke" as did I. I've always regretted that we did not play our parts at the same time. Christian is a wonderful player and a fellow LaBella endorser. Great interview..
I have read that everyone loved to play with Charlie Parker. He always made everyone around him play better.
I've heard similar. And Christian talking about his experiences here make me wonder about his presence and what it must have been like to play onstage with him. My guess is amazing, but also terrifying in a way to hear such lucid variations on a theme while you're playing.
In college we did a week long series of concerts and clinics at regional high schools and at the university with Ed Soph, Rufus Reid, Don Menza, Alan Broadbent and Mike Barone. That first day was miserable as Ed and Rufus just tore me down completely. But this week was special. We spent time with these guys on the bus, eating, partying and were part of each rehearsal, clinic and concert. Toward the end of the week Ed and Rufus were building me back up and basically telling me that they were spending that week getting me to release my insecurities and point me in the right direction. They appreciated the fact that I didn't take negative criticism personally nor let any praise go to my head. I learned a ton that week and remained in touch with Ed for a couple years and he even invited me to crash a couple Aebersold clinics he was participating in so we could hang. These guys started out telling us that we were pretty good but not quite as good as we thought we were. They worked hard with us that week and really put us through our paces and the transformation was incredible. As a band and as individuals, we improved tenfold over the course of that week.
I love Christian's whole outlook on life. Such a gentleman.
Man... this isn’t only in jazz.. I gotten it in Salsa as well.. This is why I don’t show up and shed yet.. I love jazz but need much more work... Putting in the work. I loved this interview. I totally respect Christian McBride, beast of a musician and great guy apparently. One day, I will hear him live and meet him.
It also depends on where you live. Some places are inviting and fun to go regardless of how you sound while others are surrounded by terrible attitudes/over the top shredding of people. It might be worth it to scope out a few places in the area and see the attitudes first...or just practice, nothing wrong with that.
In salsa you have to know the language. It’s obvious if you don’t and you need to get the f off the stage
Great story. And wasn’t it George Coleman who I read complaining about Miles Davis and how he would dress him down on stage night after night? Shizzle rolls dizzle hizzle, I guess... I have also learned from every bandleader I’ve worked for, and every boss I’ve had, either how to do it, or how _not_ to do it.
And that is failure indeed.
PS- I just realized I may have misattributed that story. I think it may have been Cecil McBee! Nonetheless, the principle stands.
George Coleman was kicked out of Miles’ quintet because Miles caught George practicing soloing over the repertoire. Miles had a rule about that.
Great interview. This and the Ron Carter vids. Obvious appreciation and respect from the interviewer
Christian is telling the truth here. When I was 18 at Music school I went to the jazz jam in the hip part of town recommended by my Bass teacher Tom Hazlit. He said bring your fake book and stand you'll do great. So there I go walking into the classical joint jazz bar in gas town all confident ready to prove my greenhorn self with the big boys. Well I was greeted by the host and was noticed by everyone due to my age etc and was told no fake book if you know the tunes you play if you dont know one you get off the stage and someone else goes up. They took it easy on me for 2 tunes and then they said ok lets do joy spring well that was it I did the walk off the stage of shame. Humbled and grateful of a lesson learned.
I like that he didn’t excuse George Coleman’s actions. I’ve been in that situation (not as bad) and it is crushing to your self esteem. I’ll never treat a younger person like that
I remember being on the band stand sitting in, the old guys would call a song. “Oh you don’t know it? Well we playing it anyway.” 😆 ugh I hate it
What instrument/axe you play bro? Bass? I play 🎹, 🎸, and bass!
Just walk off stage and give them the finger.
This is a GREAT interview. The interviewer did a wonderful job.
@ Christian McBride: Sir, I don't know you... but thanks for the stories. I was lucky-enough to live fairly near the legendary Jazz Showcase in Chicago for many years, and saw a lot of great shows and performers. Got to see the late legendary Johnny Griffin at the Jazz Showcase back in the early-2000s when he made a rare trip to the U.S. from his home in Paris, France. I can't recall the cats in the band, but it was just him on tenor and a piano trio with bass and drums. Griffin visited pleasantly with the audience now-and-again, but he didn't say anything to the musicians! Didn't call the names of the tunes, the tempos, the keys, none of it! He just blasted off and they had to hang on for dear life. The piano player in particular - Griffin really went after that kid ("kid" - he was maybe 25 years old), but he must have done something right because whatever the "Little Giant" threw at him, he could handle. I wish I could give all of those guys some well-deserved props, because they hung with a legend every step of the way. Griffin himself, well, let's just say that he was on fire that night. He may have been in his seventies by then, but you'd be hard-pressed to know it listening to him. I'll remember that show as long as I live.
Hell yes, Joe Segal had some of the best cats as guests...I was fortunate to see Mccoy Tyner, Fathead Newman, and Jackie McLean to name a few
@@vinsonfamilycollectibles8213 - Fathead Newman.... now you're talking!
Such a good spirit!
This trial by fire on the bandstand is what builds the backbone of the upcoming and green musicians. My father was a world class guitar player who played with the likes of James Brown, Etta James, Taj Mahal and many other legendary players and his approach with me as a green bass player who thought could play at the highest level was to take me out into the deep water and let me sink or swim with no safety line to grab. I would be so furious and embarrassed at the same time I was trying to hold on and tread water and usually drowning in the end. I know now that it was nothing more than as he would say “putting leather on your ass” and I’m grateful that I have those experiences that shaped my character as a player and I don’t have many moments where I go down in flames with other musicians after his hard lessons given on the spot. Things like playing a long intro with no clues as to what he’s playing or what the root was and then on top of that he wouldn’t come in on the 1, he would be on the iV making it seem like he was playing the root which now as a bass player backing a guitar player improvising and with a lot to say, I was playing the changes completely backwards and confusing the I and the iV until I could either get it under my hands or the train came off the tracks. As painful as it was for me I truly cherish those moments that shaped me and I would give anything to have just one more set of drowning on stage with him as I look back and smile about it now. I think this is a common indoctrination for musicians and the best place for learning and honing your craft is on the bandstand.
right on..its necessary to have those trial by fire lessons as well as having your hand..sadly the trend now adays is that there are no mistakes and we are all good in our own way with way to much babying but then if these same people dont like you they cancel you out forever..either they baby you or your dead to them,..i dont like either was when they are too extreme..
you play bass ? taj mahal saw me play upright bass and said he i was the greatest bass player he seen since jaco pastorius !!! and that's no lie! wanna hear shred the upright ?? ruclips.net/video/b-QA3CDqW7A/видео.html
Played with George many times in the 70's . He always does that..sometimes changeing keys in the middle of the tune at ridiculous tempos
my goodness, how I love Christian- he is such a natural and easy-going guy ;-) After Jaco, he is the one, who fills the gap ...for me
Super cool guy and an incredible tone on that bass!
A great interview. I too been shredded!
If one just imagines some of the other (late) greats coming in there, then the story wouldn't have been the same. Musicians such as the late John Coltrane, Jackie McLean or Lee Morgan (etc) were nothing but open and helpful to all who wished to make music. I guess what we get from this story is that George Coleman is clearly a bully and a sad man, not a great saxophonist. Luckily, we also get to see that Chris McBride is a kind and friendly bassist and a great musician, which comes across in his music.
This story definitely makes Coleman seem like a dick, but that has nothing to do with whether he is a great player. It’s foolish to equate personality with talent/facility.
George Coleman is actually a GREAT saxophonist; his music and musicianship ranks up there among the finest sax players. One can quite easily hear that by simply listening to his body of recorded performances. However, I cannot speak to his personality and character since I have never personally met the man and have no direct observations from which to base an opinion. For that type of an evaluation, I must rely on the judgement of others who actually worked with him and encountered him in private and professional settings. Nevertheless, even if the character/personality judgement is negative, it still doesn’t negate the fact that he is one hell of a musician.
Here's what you took well over 100 words to say in 24 words.
Coleman is a great player notwithstanding any bad behaviour attributed to him. I can't judge accounts of his behaviour because I never met him.
Using humiliation or abuse as a teaching method is terrible. Unless it's needed for exposing something corrupt or criminal, it's the worst way to get the "best" out of somebody. Even though some artists will point to a humiliating moment as a turning point, for many it has a scarring effect. Like the primitive action of bullying, it just doesn't fit in the realm of human advancement.
Pretty much every jazz giant had something like that before stop being too sensitive.
@@kennyr1161 I'm not "too sensitive". Not in the least. Especially when I get to humiliate a bully by making him or her hold a huge allergen-free Barney doll while handing out participation medals to all the kids who came in last at a kitten petting contest.
@@kennyr1161 I agree & see where you're coming from. And when you consider all the marvelous players in the history of this music who didn't have someone holding their hands on the bandstand, events like this served to make them woodshed more. Minton's - where Bop was being created on a nightly basis was the spot where musicians- like Dizzy, Howard McGhee, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, etc... would call crazy tempos, etc.. to get a new player off that backstand who's chops wasn't up to par.
Because with all that creativity flowing from Bird & Diz, Bud & Monk, & vocalists like Sassy, Carmen McRae, & Betty Carter who sang complex lines of bop as well or better than some of their fellow musicians - that bandstand was considered sacred & serious & if a young muscian wasn't ready for that yet & they were serious about this music, they eventually reloaded & came back and made their own contributions to the art form. For those who packed things away for good seems like that weeding out was part of the process as well. I can remember reading where Miles said while he & Max Roach was in Bird's band and trying to keep pace with him on that live bandstand & he saying to Bird: 'Man what do you even need us up here for'? Now speed ahead some years later to Bird's passing in 1955 & in conversation with Roach as they're remembering the fallen giant. Miles: "Damn Max , he died before we could get even!" As both having come up nightly against that genius of Bird, was much better musicians/leaders as a result.
Bop City, San Francisco, around 1961. Bass player goes onstage to jam. The tenor player calls Cherokee at a ridiculous up tempo. About 8 bars in the bass player is scuffling. Eddie Kahn walks onstage, takes the bass out the guys hands and plays the tune. Still, that's better than bringing everybody down.
That could be construed as just helping the poor guy out! I mean like picking someone up if they're falling. Or picking up the fumble so to speak.
Thanks for posting this!
DITTO...
Great player and humble 👏
Check out McBride's great radio show "Conversations With Christian" on Sirius XM channel 67 noon on Saturdays. He has great guests; they play together and talk about jazz. This week (11/21/2020) his guest was Monty Alexander, who told some fascinating stories. If you like jazz, don't miss this one.
I assumed Christian McBride would be the kind of guy who doesn't swear but I really liked his "Oh shit, here we go".
It's a shame about George Coleman's attitude because he's such a great player. I wonder if he's scratching his head wondering why the popularity of jazz is declining.
George Coleman is a Memphis guy. I am from memphis and they are just like that
I’ve seen George doing the “calling out random chords” thing as recently as a month or two ago, at Small’s - but with his regular band, not jammers.
"what's a matter, you don't hear that?" classic
Great interview!
Years ago I heard on a radio show that MIles would say to people right in front of George that he wished he had Sonny Rollins back in the band. It was just MIles shitting on George. So maybe George was givin' what he had to take back in the day.
I saw George with Harold Maybern in the late 80s. They did Mack the Knife at a killer tempo, and George took choruses through all the keys. I never saw anyone else do that live. George was a badass.
I would have been like I’m a musician not a psychic ...sheesh lol
Or, as a Prof at Berklee once said... "Man, Bugs Bunny don't have ears like that!"
I love this story.
Very cool conversation👍👍👍
Great story. Musicians are an irascible bunch. Genius isn't always known for it's kindness, look at Miles.
@@esltogo6898 ...lol...I think some of them enjoy humiliating people in public, unless they know you got the chops to push back at them
An awesome lesson! Thanks!
The voice of Jazz Night In America
Great words of wisdom!
Soooo true. Everyone, but bass and drums can float on top.
Bass needs to be ON. Already too late if you need to hear another player to know where the chords are going.
I’m an old working pro. I spent a good part of my life in cover bands playing in bars 9:00-1:30, six days a week. However, on Sunday because I wanted to play jazz, I would head on up (I was in the OC) to LA to sit in with some jazz groups. I made a habit of sitting in on Sundays at Vina’s, a small club in LA. Vina had their own Hammond B-3 and drum set on stage and on one Sunday, the organist was trying to get rid of this sax player who kept playing blues licks over every single jazz tune, so he started playing Giant Steps. This is many years ago and I had never played the Coltrane tune…..and obviously, neither had the sax player and when the sax player started playing his blues licks, the organist moved the tune up a half-step. The saxophonist turned, gave the organist a nasty look and stopped playing. Then the organist looked at me like it’s my turn to blow…..and at that time I hadn’t played one note yet and shook my head “no” no solo for me. That was my introduction to Giant Steps.
Great interview.
Wasn't George Coleman Miles' sax player before Wayne Shorter, and Tony Williams didn't think much of him? :))
Yes. Tony (according to Miles in his book) didn’t like George because he didn’t take chances. Played straight.
You're my new hero ❤️😎
Love it! 👊🏼😍
Humility.....
amazing, thanks!
This was great!
He learned to be a Gentleman and not a jerk. Who would want to be the Ty Cobb of Jazz???
lots of us, because jazz doesn't demonize such people.
Great !!!!
this guy is so cool and easy going
Mr, McBride-"I would never want to embarrass anyone on the bandstand like that."
A jazz gentleman-No lack of respect from me. That mean bullshit is just the epitome of ego gone bad.
I'd love to study upright bass with Christian some day!
Christian is a class act.
This is gold.
What a total boss
Getcha hair outa yo eyes, KJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you're lucky...people love you and they acknowledge your talent..so i won't sweat you this time cuz i got a george coleman story..i played with bishop norman williams like twice a week for about 15 years in san francisco and george came to play with us and you know me i will shred the best of them and george saw this so when he came up to play he tried to cut out my bass solo by heading the tune out and heck did i not let him do that..i proceeded to solo over his playing the melody and then on the next tune when it was his solo i played all the correct changes only out of tune and george kept stopping and kinda looking around and listening but he couldnt figure out what was wrong and i did that to him for every song he played with us..it was great cuz he deserved it..i little hint to all jazz soloists.. don't ever piss off the bass player cuz you'll be sorry !! we hold your fate in our hands sp don't you forget that !!! respect !! wanna hear me shred uprightbass? ruclips.net/video/b-QA3CDqW7A/видео.html
I think you play amazing. What right hand thing are you doing to be that fast, can you say?
Love this
It's not everyone's cuppa but jazz as a blood sport can be pretty darn entertaining. I more than miss it in these covidtimes.
Get the "Peanut Gallery" everywhere, tossers who never played a lick and think because they at every local jazz gig for years and know everyone that makes their opinion real important for you to hear
Antonio Hart
If can ask your bass player re the correct changes for a tune, consider yourself in good hands.
did mcbride played some football? he looks like a big center
The real deal. What a pleasure.
Coleman's wife was great upright bassist.
How Much Is That Doggy In The Window is a two chord song, I and V.
there isn't a turn-around chord?
@@drumscape9241 ruclips.net/video/Fk_vtUt1_2o/видео.html
@5:25 that’s hilarious if you’ve seen it!
Love this !
I heard another George Coleman story that ended with the pianist telling him that if George ever did that again he would be trying to play the sax with busted chops. George never did it again, with that guy anyway.
I guess once you learn the chord progression they're using. Roll with it
This sort of story is so commonplace in jazz communities and I've always found it odd, as someone who has been involved with rock, metal, instrumental progressive music scenes, as well as jazz in my younger years. This kind of play of deliberately embarrassing others would be viewed entirely as 'asshole' material in other music communities, and IMO, rightly so. There's a massive difference between cooking a show and feeling bad about it in private, and publicly humiliating someone. Both can teach a lesson, but the former is a lesson in self-reflection, the other can very easily turn into a matter of improvement through spite, which isn't sustainable or healthy for the mind. That's how you breed the next generation of bitter people. 'I learned the hard way, so can you.' - Sorry, a one-size-fits-all approach is the worst teaching method out there. In fact, it's not even a method at all.
To me, the jazz scene has always had a subset of people that view the music like a competition; people comparing their capabilities to one another, trying to outdo one another, outplay or outwit each other musically. This is obviously just a subset, but I see it often enough that it turns me off the scene overall. I think jazz is a beautiful thing and lots of good music has come out of the genre for 80 straight years, but some people stopped valuing the music as music, and started viewing it as a way to display their prowess. It's sad and childish to me, and ruins what would otherwise be an amazing thing.
The good thing is that new people come along and they have studied the pioneers and ignored the ego part of it. These individuals are the true inheritors of jazz music.
Didn't really happen that way though the people who got put in that position just became humble.
@@kennyr1161 You can learn to be humble from humble people more effectively IMO. I know people in my own city who were driven out of the community and chose to pursue other things entirely due to being poorly treated, and I don't blame them. You can learn both respect and become a better musician through positive reinforcement, and all evidence we have suggests this.
@@thescoon1 What evidence?
@@thescoon1 Looking at pretty much every jazz giant the evidence kinda goes against what you're saying
absemazin!
Now I understand why Christian McBride kicked my a$$
I’ve seen guys do that. Kinda kills the vibe of the session. Some guys don’t mind it, some guys hate it. I wouldn’t do that to someone and wouldn’t want it done to me. This stuff should be fun for everybody on stage trying to better themselves in the language. I realize thats what some guys did back then, but that doesn’t make it right. Seemed like some bully shit to me. Playing music should me pure joy. I know it is to Me
There's a story in the Miles Davis autobiography where some fellow 🎺 playing cat comes on the bandstand and ✂s miles head off! The next night 🌙 he comes and trys it again but this time miles was ready and made him look bad! Apparently the first time he played first and was polite and went easy on him and dude took advantage! The next night he had the dude play first then ✂ him up! Sorry I can't remember the trumpet 🎺 players name. I just remember the story.
It was Kenny Dorham!
There's a reason why Jazz lost so much popularity & it's spelled E-G-O. Yes, I'll put all the blame that's deserved on the money men & the "dumbing down" of the marketplace, but too many Jazz players began to just look to impress each other. I'm not saying that they owe it to the masses to dumb down Jazz, but there was a time when the greats were able to find a way to remain somewhat accessible to more listeners without selling out. Plenty of people knew who Dizzy Gillespie & Miles & Brubeck were, even though Elvis was huge, too. Now? How many "average people" can name 2 or 3 big contemporary Jazz players. Can we rightly blame it ALL on Rap, or Capitalism or whatever?
@ pyannaguy: Seventy-five or more years ago, jazz musicians were once also popular musicians, during the big-band era and before. They saw themselves as entertainers and not just as artists. Count Basie, Duke Ellington, The Dorsey Brothers, Benny Goodman, and others. However, with the birth of modern jazz/bebop, that all changed. The cats creating the music saw themselves as serious artists and not panderers to the masses - which is how some of the beboppers described guys like Louis Armstrong.
Guys like Miles Davis - there's no denying that there was an arrogance, a hostile edge that said take it or leave it, I don't care - about them. And those guys made a virtue out of being able to play tunes so complex and challenging that the old-timers (many of them, anyway) couldn't cut it. Playing standards like "Cherokee" at ridiculous tempos and cycling them through all twelve keys, not because the audience liked it - but because they wanted to prove who was good-enough to be on the band-stand and keep the pretenders away.
There was also an undeniable racial component to it. The post-war era marked the beginning of the civil rights era, and modern jazz saw itself as a part of that. Avant-garde music and politics mixed.
Popular music has to be entertaining. That fact bothers some people, including jazz musicians, but popular entertainment must first and foremost entertain. Statement of fact. People will tolerate only a certain amount of alienation and abuse from a performer, even a supremely talented one, before giving up in disgust. If Joe Sixpack wanted to be abused and ignored, he'd go to work, not see a Miles Davis show, know what I mean?
The alienation of hardcore jazz musicians - the beboppers - from mainstream society - coupled with the rise of hugely profitable and much more popular forms of music such as rock-and-roll, spelled economic doom for jazz as a mainstream music. Sixty years ago, most big cities had thriving jazz club scenes, but today, viable jazz clubs are a rarity even in big cities. It's really a shame, that such a beautiful music isn't more-popular and better-known, but honestly compels me to admit that down through the years jazz musicians themselves bear a lot of the blame. But seeing someone as well-spoken, courteous, and talented as Christian McBride fills me with hope for the future that maybe things aren't lost after all. That it is possible to be a gentleman and a great jazz musician at the same time.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Well put! And a lot of it can be summed up (if it had to be) by your words: >>but honestly compels me to admit that down through the years jazz musicians themselves bear a lot of the blame.
@@pyannaguy4361 - Your comments are very insightful as well. Thanks for sharing them. I can tell you care a great deal about the fate of jazz.
I heard a story about Sonny Stitt played in a club in Richmond ,Virginia in the 1960s. He was playing in this club and a local hotshot sax player came in ,and wanted to sit in on "Cherokee". Sonny let the cat sit in,but as he was counting it off,Sonny called the tune in B natural, and the local guy was scuffling.So a few months later, Sonny comes back to play at this club,the same sax player comes in (who had been working on Cherokee and learned to play it in B.This time as Sonny counted it of ,he called in A natural.
Sonny did some similar to Stan Getz
Dick move, Coleman.
I had a kid threaten suicide because I gave him tough love during a rehearsal....love is the way
What did your 'tough love' consist of?
@@UkuleleAversion the kid started whining when I asked him to play something differently form the first time. He kept yelling, "That's not what you told me last time!!!!" He couldn't hear that I liked trying things different ways so I finally told him if he can't follow direction to just quit immediately.....and then the suicide speech.
sooo jazz is mostly pretense and mystique?
AA
..damn, you white,..so am I but dammnn..anyway you just did an interview with a jazz GIANT so....subscription (you certainly deserve many, many more with content like..), good luck with..🎵🖤