Always enjoy listening to your videos Justin! Shark racing averages about $4K a car a night. 80 races that’s about $320,000. We also build engines in house and have two crew members for each car. Jacob and I are our own crew chiefs. Like you said that is after all start up cost.
Thanks for sharing this priceless info on what kind of money is put into these teams. The amount is staggering and actually hard to wrap my brain around!!! LOL 🤣 True story: When I was growing up, we went to our local dirt track every Thursday night (The Old Columbia Speedway) (Literally got to watch and meet every driver who was in Nascar from the beginning and early years). With that being said, rules weren't like they are now and safety wasn't a priority like now(thank GOD for the implementation of all things safety, except for this stupid new gen car they ran this year 🙄)There were a few guys that wanted to race badly enough, they drove their own cars to the track and raced them. 🤣 If they by chance got to torn up to drive home, they left them at the track and caught a ride with someone at the track or they walked home . I can imagine some of the conversations with wives or girlfriends when they showed up with no car. Priceless Treasured Memories 💞🤗💞 Can't wait to see the breakdown on the late model series because it cost a fortune to race in anything nowadays. Thanks again. This was a great video and a BLESSING to me. Love your videos. 💞🤗💞🙏
We are so lucky that multi-millionaire car owners don't mind loosing money. They simply enjoy being owners and the glory that goes with that. When these types of owners dry up, the sport will be in trouble.
Will never dry up we pay for it to buy oil any company products they use for racing any business pulling a a substantial amt of money can build a race car and your money then goes around the track so when the morons pay to see a race they pay twice to get in and then see their car going around the track get it?
here's a weird place to get an idea of old time racing P/L; there's an old Clark Gable movie from 1950 called 'To Please A Lady' about Gable as a barnstorming sprint car driver and going to the Indy 500. they cover car purchase price and payouts for a weekly race in there.
Can you do a story on the breakdown of costs for a track to host one of the premier series? How much do they pay to obtain the race? I've always been curious how that works
The track pays a certain amount to which ever series that is racing there. They charge different amounts. Not including other percentages etc. It takes a lot to hold one of the big series. Thats why its mainly these big tracks doing it. If they lowered the fee, or even worked out just a 60/40 or something more of these local tracks would have these big events. Along with fees, means more people, more cars, more personell, more track/prep work. As stated above, listen to Dirty Mo Media, Dale Jr. On running a local dirt track.
i always wondered how the merch sales were split up i would imagine there is a good deal of money made on merch, would be interesting to know how much the teams/drivers get in merch.
I would say closer to 800 to 900 to be a top 5 team. Big Game motorsports buys 5 new chassis every year, plus probably 4 or 5 motors in rotation. New driveline components every year, wings, vinyl. Wheels too. You could get by on $500, but your gonna be top 15 at best. Lots of shows running at a high level means reliability, so just rebuilding rear axles from season to season isn't enough. Great video, gives the fans an idea of how much their heros need to be successful.
@@outlaw67111 You'd be surprised, some teams, including bigger teams will go back to older chassis. At least in the sprint car world. Yes they do usually buy several new chassis, but for several different nights, usually specific races they'll go back to older chassis. Due to the driver liking that car or having success in that specific car. I can tell you from first hand experience chassis built by the same manufacture in the same year can drive differently. I had 2 cars of the same year, same manufacture. Everything was pretty much identical in the cars including parts. 1 was really good in the slick, the other was complete garbage, same setup also.
My buddy out of st charles mo runs ump modifieds and sliver crown. Will say modified chassis is pretty expensive too . This why it’s important to buy driver s souvenirs cause that’s how some drivers make there living . Cause most of there winnings go right back into the car or hauler
I think most of your numbers are correct or very close, but you need to factor that teams will probably start the year with at least one or two new engines. From a reputable builder they cost upwards of 70k. kistler requires engines to be rebuilt between 10-20 shows, so yes say 15 nights. With a rebuild costing between most likely 5-13k depending work being done. not to mention the odds you blow one up in a year is pretty likely. Say in a year you buy one new motor to start, that's $70k and then with rebuilds averaging $9k equals about another 45K. Id say its a very easy $100,000 they'll spend on engines in a year. I also know teams are building at least a couple new cars to start the year, if not all cars so there's some room for imagination on that one. great video though.
Yes no doubt! For $25 you get to see some amazing racing night in an out! Much Better than $200 or more to see a boring Cup series race! Much more entertaining and for $10 more you can go in the pits an see it up close or after the race for free! Definitely family sport!
@@jamieday6602 yes and with usac and middle of the pack series even usac the guys often are guys that work regular jobs on the side, or skilled trades often, and come with family to the track just like it was in the hey days of racing they are more like us fans, example silver crown drivers, like taylor ferns she is studying to be a lawer, derick bischak works for cummins designing the computer shifting systems for the automatic transmissions for I think medium duty trucks, shane cottle does floor laying, shane cockrum is the chief of a fire department in the land of lincolin, and travis wellpot is a teacher of industrial arts and a coach. so what I am trying to say is even though usac is well pretty much the top in non wing stuff you still have some big names that have day jobs save for a few that are the top end like kody swanson, or buddy kofoid or tmez that race and do well enough to make a living driving even if it can be hard sometimes in a dry spell, and drive almost anything that moves.
This is why Dirtrackr is the best RUclips channel! I'm proud of the work you put into dirt racing! I'm the lucky guy sitting on my Lazyboy after a long dayz work!
Would love to see some breakdowns for Midget racing, and even Non wing racing. With the Chilli Bowl coming up always makes me think that the USAC/midget/NW guys aren’t making any where near what they spend..
Thank you for this. I'm not super familiar with dirt oval racing costs, but it's interesting to see how this all works. A good friend/employer of mine just started a road racing team and this helps put our budget into perspective.
Justin my son and I did the late model start up estimates for a class when he was in high school. We had a million dollars to spend and where over budget by close to 100,000. That was back in the early 2000's. Thinking about just yearly costs engine rebuild is close to 10,000, tires were about 200 a piece. Pit passes are going for 40 a nite per person. Add in fuel for the truck and the car. Wow can't even imagine what it would take for a full year on the road
Just operate a business that will screw us people and you can play on the track with a race car.Look up Frankie Schneider he built his own car with the winnings from racing and he made a lot of money back then when it was racing.He also could make nothing out of something.I recall him telling me what do I know I am just a dumb farmer.He told me what he took home a week and he never told anyone what he took home even his son but he told me in his garage one day after is racing career was over..No driver back then or even today was a better driver than Frankie.I miss talking to him he told me how it was.He would say you bullshit the people they love it you tell them the truth they did not want to hear it.A shame how people are bullshitted today I feel sorry for the kids.✌
Forgot to mention Frankie beat guys on a consistent basis that has 4x the amount of money in their cars and he could've lapped the field of many races many times but wanted it to look like a race so he did not piss the fans off and the second place guy said I almost got him will get him next week that never came.He also had well over 1,000 wins but when he started his career they were not counted.✌
I would think the cost vary wildly depending on how many cars are wrecked during the year. I can’t imagine many parts are reusable after a bad wreck? Some drivers seem to never wreck while others do every other weekend.
Thanks for the insight on that, a very interesting subject and helps to appreciate even more how hard all the teams work to keep moving down the road. Merry Christmas to Y'all
That 333k loss at the end is pretty cheap for someone that owns a business that they use as a buffer with the team they run. So 333k to right off from business as advertising, milage etc.... That's pretty cheap compared to other forms of advertising. Plus they get all of this streaming time on screen all around the country as they go from state to state. That's a good investment.
Good stuff! Only gap I see is that you assume the car is not going to be wrecked at any time throughout the season. Hard to estimate, but that has to add. Plus if you’re in the top 5 there’s going to be a backup car in play
Hey Justin : Thank you for all the great info! I can believe the costs and I understand drivers feelings. That's why 10 thou to win events are a little behind as far as inflation goes.
Track costs are also up. F&B margins may go down if track doesn’t raise concession prices. Also finding sponsors to advertise will be harder as they will also be tightening their budgets. As costs for everyone goes up it’ll be hard to increase purses. Just ride it out till the economy gets better. The WoO is the best way to run full time to subsidize a team. Tow money, show money, free pit passes, season purse, etc. If drivers press for more money, I believe WoO will increase the fee tracks pay to sanction the race & may scare away some tracks. Hopefully all involved can work together 👍🏼
My only question about these numbers. No contingency for tearing up equipment. For example taking a dump and bending a frame, whats that going to cost a team. Or the other mechanical parts like gearbox, drive train etc.
Great concept for an episode. Thank you. In the future, a breakdown of the benefits of streaming would be interesting. I have often wondered what certain tracks are losing out on by refusing to stream their shows. I have no idea what they would be paid in comparison to the gate .
Listen to Dale Jr podcast, one of the local track owners was talking about it. If they do the streaming, then on cloudy, rainy or some week days it pays off. On a sunny and nice Saturday, the gates pays off. It's a gamble.
My uncle built race cars and engines. He held a few lap time records, he knew how to get around the track. WoO came to OKC and uncle beat them on his home track. Well they threw a fit, took his win away by saying “How can someone on a value budget beat us?”. They couldn’t find any cheating and still would not acknowledge his win, then changed the rules so he couldn’t compete next time they came to town. He left OKC for better purses in Enid. Plenty of sweeps and getting booed every weekend. Good Times. RIP C.H. #88
I'm guessing your truck expenses are low, over thirty years as a owner operator, expenses away from home are horrible and truck expenses are exploding. Something you didn't mention is the expense of a trailer, racing trailers are very niche and a good used one is rarer than unicorns!
@@markstill8258 Almost certainly double duty mechanic/trucker. You're not going to pay a guy to sit around all weekend while the truck sits in the paddock.
Well said. It actually seems somewhat cheaper than I thought. But the breakdown shows it clear for sure. I'd imagine getting into some wrecks and maybe a popped motor and mishaps could add heavy expenses as well. Nice video, keep up the great content!
Fantastic show. I greatly appreciate your research. It would be ineresting to calculate sponser money in the equation. Additionally I wonder how much is really made on merchandise sales . I dont think the profit margin on tee shirts is very high
Great stuff as always. I've always wondered what the numbers look like. It actually is less than I would have figured. I would have assumed it was north of $1M/year. Still a lot of $ to keep these teams going up & down the road. I'd be really curious what some of the sponsor deals look like.
That sounds fair enough of a breakdown. For a few of the teams I am sure t-shirt money gets them up and down the road. I always try to help them out that way.
The short answer is: Way more than they earn. This series is kept afloat by wealthy men who spend money on it for no other reason than they love it, and I was personally told that by a top 3 driver.
Yes, you're talking about just with parts, crew cost, and traveling cost, but you're also forgot about merchandising.... That's about 3,000 shirts made up (as an example), $15/shirt made up. That's $45k/design for this example. There's hats, banners, pins, flags, etc. That can probably be anywhere from $45k to $100k, depending on the driver. Plus, an extra $40k if they're getting a van. Or $70-$110k on a vending trailer.
i love your vids. cause no one else does videos like this and so i can learn more cause my dad races late models not in world of outlaws in slmr. we 're in nebraska
Bad thing is that hardly anything is getting cheaper. A lot of engine parts just keep going up in cost and it’s a roll of the dice if they’re even available. The high costs/parts availability will effort most forms of racing next season.
We ran 410s from 91 - 99 pa only we bent 2-3 chassis’s a year probably 4 wing sets and I built all our engines , 11x or-12 motors good stuff and back then we spent north of 125;k year
Very interesting data on operating a sprint car team for the season. I wonder how many chassis the average team goes through per season? Some appear to be pretty thrifty and not as hard on equipment as others. Great show!
I think you are low by about $80-100k... I've been out of the game for a while now, but our non-wing engines were only going 15-18 shows between rebuilds, with an average rebuild costing about $6,000 for one of if not the best engine builders out there. I have to believe you will be doing that every 10 shows with a wing, and the cost now has to be at least $7,500. That's an extra $45,000 on your budget. For a top-level team, I think your car maintenance budget is low by at least 20%, and they are also going to destroy at least one car a season...call it $25,000 to build a new all Ti/carbon ultra-light roller. Back in the day I crew chiefed a non-wing sprint. Driver got 40%/50% for a win. I got all expenses paid plus a bonus when we won. We were a front running team, we won a race occasionally and were almost always top 10 and generally top 5 regardless of where we ran (well not when we ran with WoO, but we did generally make the mains at the shows we ran...). We ran mostly west coast, but did race as far east as eastern PA. We did run with a wing for a week or two each season for many years. In the 90's we could make money, the 00's we could at least break even, but since about '12 is all negative. It's a professional hobby for the teams and drivers at most levels. A top level WoO or similar, it's a darn fun living (although unless you've done it some you don't understand how much work it is). It is a form of entertainment for the fans, but man everything is lopsided now. I've got two kids with the talent, but even with sponsorship I can't connect the dots right now....the typical payout at any level of sprints right now is half what it needs to be. WoO offsets this some with their platinum membership (no pit passes), but man you are looking at $250-300 per night in methanol, $400-500 for tires (at low end), another $500 for engine, another $300+ for car maintenance and another $300+ in pit passes not to mention towing expenses, food and hotels. That's $1,800 per night if nothing unfortunate happens. Even if you could offset 1/3 of that with sponsorship, you'd have to finish on the podium at minimum to break even nowadays if you don't pay the driver. My barometer has always been can you roughly finish 8-10 every night and have a reasonable chance at breaking even? Say with sponsorships, and discounts you can race for $1,000 per night. If you're paying your driver 40%/50% for win or podium, that means you need to make around $1,800 for 8th. You don't even make that for 8th right now in a $20k to win show. Heck most nights it about $800. We were making more than that in the 90's and expenses were a fraction of what they are now! I know a lot of guys who have enough income to field a top-notch sprint team right now. None of them will do it because the black hole has simply gotten too big.
Don’t forget about sponsors and comps, My company just sent us to a race. All paid for and completely comped by the race team. That is just for the companies that Is buying the main sponsors products at a high level. 12 pit passes at 50 each at every race.
Way way light on the engine rebuild and maintenance budget. Figure at least 15k per freshening and likely more. And with the current package there’s no way you can go 20 nights on a motor.
There's no way they are getting 20 shows between rebuilds. 10 tops. And it's 8-12k per rebuild. We rebuild our 360 motors every 12 races. The top 5 teams are spending 60-75k a season on rebuilds alone. Plus you never factored in all the major races (Knoxville Nats, Kings Royal, Big one) that they all buy brand new engines and cars specifically for those events.
Running regional Nascar weekly race series back in 2001- 2008. If you wanted to compete for the national championship, you needed 20 wins. If you came in 2nd, the night was a waste of recourses. I think WOO would be a better option tbh. The only number I would say is low is engine and chassis. You aren't running a season without blowing a 75k engine into an ugly coffee table for a fan. Bend a titanium wheel? $400, destroy it, well...
For a team your under, he'll I can tell you forsure a Smith ti bill for one is 50k plus for a year. The big teams sprint cars or midgets are dishing out an extreme amount of cash. You wouldn't believe some top midget Motors
Great video but I think your numbers are on the very low side.no mention of food crew travel like driving or flights and rental cars.i would say you are about 120k off on the low side.i would say it's gonna cost you 750,000 to 900,000 a year.plus you got the little things like waste oil and fuel removal shipping on parts and other things
Always enjoy listening to your videos Justin! Shark racing averages about $4K a car a night. 80 races that’s about $320,000. We also build engines in house and have two crew members for each car. Jacob and I are our own crew chiefs. Like you said that is after all start up cost.
Awesome man, thanks for chiming in!
Thanks for sharing this priceless info on what kind of money is put into these teams. The amount is staggering and actually hard to wrap my brain around!!! LOL 🤣 True story: When I was growing up, we went to our local dirt track every Thursday night (The Old Columbia Speedway) (Literally got to watch and meet every driver who was in Nascar from the beginning and early years). With that being said, rules weren't like they are now and safety wasn't a priority like now(thank GOD for the implementation of all things safety, except for this stupid new gen car they ran this year 🙄)There were a few guys that wanted to race badly enough, they drove their own cars to the track and raced them. 🤣 If they by chance got to torn up to drive home, they left them at the track and caught a ride with someone at the track or they walked home . I can imagine some of the conversations with wives or girlfriends when they showed up with no car. Priceless Treasured Memories 💞🤗💞 Can't wait to see the breakdown on the late model series because it cost a fortune to race in anything nowadays. Thanks again. This was a great video and a BLESSING to me. Love your videos. 💞🤗💞🙏
Appreciate and admire what you guys do at Shark Racing.
is merch your main source of income then?
We are so lucky that multi-millionaire car owners don't mind loosing money. They simply enjoy being owners and the glory that goes with that. When these types of owners dry up, the sport will be in trouble.
Will never dry up we pay for it to buy oil any company products they use for racing any business pulling a a substantial amt of money can build a race car and your money then goes around the track so when the morons pay to see a race they pay twice to get in and then see their car going around the track get it?
Its not about being a car owner. Racing is about building the car that wins.
@@jesushadenough3427 Rich car owners start the whole process.
@@chuckg6039 Rich car owners buy their cars from builders because they don't know how to build them their self.
@@jesushadenough3427 Buying doesn't happen without a rich person.
Definitely report on the Late Models. Include how drivers are paid.
This right here.
It’s really easy to become a millionaire in racing, all you need is to be a billionaire
I read a book when I was young, I think it was junior Johnson that said the best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one
Absolutely great show, can appreciate the effort you put into this, thanks.
here's a weird place to get an idea of old time racing P/L;
there's an old Clark Gable movie from 1950 called 'To Please A Lady' about Gable as a barnstorming sprint car driver and going to the Indy 500. they cover car purchase price and payouts for a weekly race in there.
Can you do a story on the breakdown of costs for a track to host one of the premier series? How much do they pay to obtain the race? I've always been curious how that works
The track pays a certain amount to which ever series that is racing there. They charge different amounts. Not including other percentages etc. It takes a lot to hold one of the big series. Thats why its mainly these big tracks doing it. If they lowered the fee, or even worked out just a 60/40 or something more of these local tracks would have these big events.
Along with fees, means more people, more cars, more personell, more track/prep work. As stated above, listen to Dirty Mo Media, Dale Jr. On running a local dirt track.
i always wondered how the merch sales were split up i would imagine there is a good deal of money made on merch, would be interesting to know how much the teams/drivers get in merch.
Merch sales can equal what a driver makes at the track that night. Nice source of income.
Merch sales more than likely help keep the team out of the red each year. I know on the music side merxh is where the money is made.
Justin, best show in a while. Love the breakdown of costs.
I would say closer to 800 to 900 to be a top 5 team. Big Game motorsports buys 5 new chassis every year, plus probably 4 or 5 motors in rotation. New driveline components every year, wings, vinyl. Wheels too. You could get by on $500, but your gonna be top 15 at best. Lots of shows running at a high level means reliability, so just rebuilding rear axles from season to season isn't enough. Great video, gives the fans an idea of how much their heros need to be successful.
Every top team starts with all new stuff except engines every year. That's a necessity as much as they run all year. Same with the Late Model teams.
@@outlaw67111 You'd be surprised, some teams, including bigger teams will go back to older chassis. At least in the sprint car world. Yes they do usually buy several new chassis, but for several different nights, usually specific races they'll go back to older chassis. Due to the driver liking that car or having success in that specific car.
I can tell you from first hand experience chassis built by the same manufacture in the same year can drive differently. I had 2 cars of the same year, same manufacture. Everything was pretty much identical in the cars including parts. 1 was really good in the slick, the other was complete garbage, same setup also.
My buddy out of st charles mo runs ump modifieds and sliver crown. Will say modified chassis is pretty expensive too . This why it’s important to buy driver s souvenirs cause that’s how some drivers make there living . Cause most of there winnings go right back into the car or hauler
I think most of your numbers are correct or very close, but you need to factor that teams will probably start the year with at least one or two new engines. From a reputable builder they cost upwards of 70k. kistler requires engines to be rebuilt between 10-20 shows, so yes say 15 nights. With a rebuild costing between most likely 5-13k depending work being done. not to mention the odds you blow one up in a year is pretty likely. Say in a year you buy one new motor to start, that's $70k and then with rebuilds averaging $9k equals about another 45K. Id say its a very easy $100,000 they'll spend on engines in a year. I also know teams are building at least a couple new cars to start the year, if not all cars so there's some room for imagination on that one. great video though.
Passion and money is all it takes to race! Ticket prices don't seem very high when you crunch all the expenses. Great info. as always.
Yes no doubt! For $25 you get to see some amazing racing night in an out! Much Better than $200 or more to see a boring Cup series race! Much more entertaining and for $10 more you can go in the pits an see it up close or after the race for free! Definitely family sport!
That's truly why they do it! That's why the racing is good!
@@jamieday6602 yes and with usac and middle of the pack series even usac the guys often are guys that work regular jobs on the side, or skilled trades often, and come with family to the track just like it was in the hey days of racing they are more like us fans, example silver crown drivers, like taylor ferns she is studying to be a lawer, derick bischak works for cummins designing the computer shifting systems for the automatic transmissions for I think medium duty trucks, shane cottle does floor laying, shane cockrum is the chief of a fire department in the land of lincolin, and travis wellpot is a teacher of industrial arts and a coach.
so what I am trying to say is even though usac is well pretty much the top in non wing stuff you still have some big names that have day jobs save for a few that are the top end like kody swanson, or buddy kofoid or tmez that race and do well enough to make a living driving even if it can be hard sometimes in a dry spell, and drive almost anything that moves.
@@jamieday6602 the races I went to last year were $40 a head
@@anthonymunn5161 cheap in the scheme of things
Great show! It's amazing to see how much it cost ! It's stunning what the spend for what they make!
Great work, it will be interesting to see if some teams respond with additional information.
I'd like to hear about the late models.
Some super late model race teams use 4-5 different engines depending on how big the track. That would be $300,000+ just on engines.
This is why Dirtrackr is the best RUclips channel! I'm proud of the work you put into dirt racing! I'm the lucky guy sitting on my Lazyboy after a long dayz work!
Would love to see some breakdowns for Midget racing, and even Non wing racing.
With the Chilli Bowl coming up always makes me think that the USAC/midget/NW guys aren’t making any where near what they spend..
Thank you for this. I'm not super familiar with dirt oval racing costs, but it's interesting to see how this all works. A good friend/employer of mine just started a road racing team and this helps put our budget into perspective.
10 Years ago you could run a 305 sprinter for the cost of running a competitive dirt kart today. Cost is out of control across the board.
Justin my son and I did the late model start up estimates for a class when he was in high school. We had a million dollars to spend and where over budget by close to 100,000. That was back in the early 2000's. Thinking about just yearly costs engine rebuild is close to 10,000, tires were about 200 a piece. Pit passes are going for 40 a nite per person. Add in fuel for the truck and the car. Wow can't even imagine what it would take for a full year on the road
Just operate a business that will screw us people and you can play on the track with a race car.Look up Frankie Schneider he built his own car with the winnings from racing and he made a lot of money back then when it was racing.He also could make nothing out of something.I recall him telling me what do I know I am just a dumb farmer.He told me what he took home a week and he never told anyone what he took home even his son but he told me in his garage one day after is racing career was over..No driver back then or even today was a better driver than Frankie.I miss talking to him he told me how it was.He would say you bullshit the people they love it you tell them the truth they did not want to hear it.A shame how people are bullshitted today I feel sorry for the kids.✌
Forgot to mention Frankie beat guys on a consistent basis that has 4x the amount of money in their cars and he could've lapped the field of many races many times but wanted it to look like a race so he did not piss the fans off and the second place guy said I almost got him will get him next week that never came.He also had well over 1,000 wins but when he started his career they were not counted.✌
Most top teams start the season with a few new cars and engines so that has to be added in also plus how many cars get totaled in a year
I would think the cost vary wildly depending on how many cars are wrecked during the year. I can’t imagine many parts are reusable after a bad wreck? Some drivers seem to never wreck while others do every other weekend.
What about the cost to buy the truck an trailer ?
Thanks for the insight on that, a very interesting subject and helps to appreciate even more how hard all the teams work to keep moving down the road. Merry Christmas to Y'all
That 333k loss at the end is pretty cheap for someone that owns a business that they use as a buffer with the team they run. So 333k to right off from business as advertising, milage etc.... That's pretty cheap compared to other forms of advertising. Plus they get all of this streaming time on screen all around the country as they go from state to state. That's a good investment.
Thanks for the info. It’s really neat seeing what teams spent.
Good stuff! Only gap I see is that you assume the car is not going to be wrecked at any time throughout the season. Hard to estimate, but that has to add. Plus if you’re in the top 5 there’s going to be a backup car in play
Great show like always keep up bud!
Great video. Always wanted ballpark numbers on what it takes to run a team.
Hey Justin : Thank you for all the great info! I can believe the costs and I understand drivers feelings. That's why 10 thou to win events are a little behind as far as inflation goes.
Track costs are also up. F&B margins may go down if track doesn’t raise concession prices. Also finding sponsors to advertise will be harder as they will also be tightening their budgets. As costs for everyone goes up it’ll be hard to increase purses. Just ride it out till the economy gets better. The WoO is the best way to run full time to subsidize a team. Tow money, show money, free pit passes, season purse, etc. If drivers press for more money, I believe WoO will increase the fee tracks pay to sanction the race & may scare away some tracks. Hopefully all involved can work together 👍🏼
You can race on a budget, but you have to love it.
My only question about these numbers. No contingency for tearing up equipment. For example taking a dump and bending a frame, whats that going to cost a team. Or the other mechanical parts like gearbox, drive train etc.
Way off on motor rebuilds cost . Keep going up
I’d say you’re pretty close on those numbers, you might end having a little more on refreshes with added engines.
Great concept for an episode. Thank you. In the future, a breakdown of the benefits of streaming would be interesting. I have often wondered what certain tracks are losing out on by refusing to stream their shows. I have no idea what they would be paid in comparison to the gate .
Listen to Dale Jr podcast, one of the local track owners was talking about it. If they do the streaming, then on cloudy, rainy or some week days it pays off. On a sunny and nice Saturday, the gates pays off. It's a gamble.
1 engine rebuild in australia is almost $30k alone, and how tires have just hit $800 for 1 right rear
My uncle built race cars and engines. He held a few lap time records, he knew how to get around the track. WoO came to OKC and uncle beat them on his home track. Well they threw a fit, took his win away by saying “How can someone on a value budget beat us?”. They couldn’t find any cheating and still would not acknowledge his win, then changed the rules so he couldn’t compete next time they came to town. He left OKC for better purses in Enid. Plenty of sweeps and getting booed every weekend. Good Times. RIP C.H. #88
I'm guessing your truck expenses are low, over thirty years as a owner operator, expenses away from home are horrible and truck expenses are exploding. Something you didn't mention is the expense of a trailer, racing trailers are very niche and a good used one is rarer than unicorns!
He didn't include the truck drivers salary either or do they just get a tire guy with a CDL and have him pull double duty for the same money?
@@markstill8258 Good point Mark, running trucks is getting so expensive and insurance on a racing rig has to be horrible!
@@markstill8258 Almost certainly double duty mechanic/trucker. You're not going to pay a guy to sit around all weekend while the truck sits in the paddock.
Well said. It actually seems somewhat cheaper than I thought. But the breakdown shows it clear for sure. I'd imagine getting into some wrecks and maybe a popped motor and mishaps could add heavy expenses as well. Nice video, keep up the great content!
Fantastic show. I greatly appreciate your research. It would be ineresting to calculate sponser money in the equation. Additionally I wonder how much is really made on merchandise sales . I dont think the profit margin on tee shirts is very high
Cost to produce a shirt is $8. Hat is $10. Profit margin isn’t bad.
how many races or events did you count per season and what's the duration start end date of a season
Great stuff as always. I've always wondered what the numbers look like. It actually is less than I would have figured. I would have assumed it was north of $1M/year. Still a lot of $ to keep these teams going up & down the road. I'd be really curious what some of the sponsor deals look like.
That sounds fair enough of a breakdown. For a few of the teams I am sure t-shirt money gets them up and down the road. I always try to help them out that way.
The short answer is: Way more than they earn. This series is kept afloat by wealthy men who spend money on it for no other reason than they love it, and I was personally told that by a top 3 driver.
I'd say dirt late model is pretty close in budgets as sprint cars. What percentage of the teams late model or sprint drivers are the owners?
Excellent work mate well done
Yes, you're talking about just with parts, crew cost, and traveling cost, but you're also forgot about merchandising....
That's about 3,000 shirts made up (as an example), $15/shirt made up. That's $45k/design for this example.
There's hats, banners, pins, flags, etc. That can probably be anywhere from $45k to $100k, depending on the driver.
Plus, an extra $40k if they're getting a van. Or $70-$110k on a vending trailer.
thank you!, ive been waiting for this show since the beginning of "open red"
i love your vids. cause no one else does videos like this and so i can learn more cause my dad races late models not in world of outlaws in slmr. we 're in nebraska
Bad thing is that hardly anything is getting cheaper. A lot of engine parts just keep going up in cost and it’s a roll of the dice if they’re even available. The high costs/parts availability will effort most forms of racing next season.
On top of the cost, it's getting harder to get the parts with all the delays in shipping and manufacturing.
what about Merch sales ?
thats gotta pay for something
Nice looking mount for go pro's! Look really rugged! Nice sponsor for your channel!
Thanks for smashing my dreams of driving the WoO series!! 🤣😆🤣
You can do it. Take some Business and Marketing classes. Get a sales job selling High dollar things. Get that money!
We ran 410s from 91 - 99 pa only we bent 2-3 chassis’s a year probably 4 wing sets and I built all our engines , 11x or-12 motors good stuff and back then we spent north of 125;k year
Very interesting data on operating a sprint car team for the season. I wonder how many chassis the average team goes through per season? Some appear to be pretty thrifty and not as hard on equipment as others. Great show!
You should do a video on the costs of the chili bowl.
Very informative and enjoyed the breakdown. I guess it's time to play the Megabucks a little more!
You can make a small fortune racing if you start with a big one. Junior Johnson
Great breakdown.
Came to less than I was expecting.
Great Show as Always !!!!!
So $2-3k to run a 410 per night?
I think you are low by about $80-100k... I've been out of the game for a while now, but our non-wing engines were only going 15-18 shows between rebuilds, with an average rebuild costing about $6,000 for one of if not the best engine builders out there. I have to believe you will be doing that every 10 shows with a wing, and the cost now has to be at least $7,500. That's an extra $45,000 on your budget. For a top-level team, I think your car maintenance budget is low by at least 20%, and they are also going to destroy at least one car a season...call it $25,000 to build a new all Ti/carbon ultra-light roller.
Back in the day I crew chiefed a non-wing sprint. Driver got 40%/50% for a win. I got all expenses paid plus a bonus when we won. We were a front running team, we won a race occasionally and were almost always top 10 and generally top 5 regardless of where we ran (well not when we ran with WoO, but we did generally make the mains at the shows we ran...). We ran mostly west coast, but did race as far east as eastern PA. We did run with a wing for a week or two each season for many years.
In the 90's we could make money, the 00's we could at least break even, but since about '12 is all negative. It's a professional hobby for the teams and drivers at most levels. A top level WoO or similar, it's a darn fun living (although unless you've done it some you don't understand how much work it is). It is a form of entertainment for the fans, but man everything is lopsided now. I've got two kids with the talent, but even with sponsorship I can't connect the dots right now....the typical payout at any level of sprints right now is half what it needs to be. WoO offsets this some with their platinum membership (no pit passes), but man you are looking at $250-300 per night in methanol, $400-500 for tires (at low end), another $500 for engine, another $300+ for car maintenance and another $300+ in pit passes not to mention towing expenses, food and hotels. That's $1,800 per night if nothing unfortunate happens. Even if you could offset 1/3 of that with sponsorship, you'd have to finish on the podium at minimum to break even nowadays if you don't pay the driver.
My barometer has always been can you roughly finish 8-10 every night and have a reasonable chance at breaking even? Say with sponsorships, and discounts you can race for $1,000 per night. If you're paying your driver 40%/50% for win or podium, that means you need to make around $1,800 for 8th. You don't even make that for 8th right now in a $20k to win show. Heck most nights it about $800. We were making more than that in the 90's and expenses were a fraction of what they are now!
I know a lot of guys who have enough income to field a top-notch sprint team right now. None of them will do it because the black hole has simply gotten too big.
west coast alcohol is $300 for 55 gallons!
be cool to do late models
Don’t forget about sponsors and comps, My company just sent us to a race. All paid for and completely comped by the race team. That is just for the companies that Is buying the main sponsors products at a high level. 12 pit passes at 50 each at every race.
Engine Rebuilds ( cost ) seems low to me
You're pretty much on point with the numbers, pretty insane lol
Just found this video thx great info.
Motor costs average $8k at HP Racing engines and we got 10-15 races before rebuilds and that’s if we didn’t break anything.
Could get figures for super late model teams and usmts teams.
Way way light on the engine rebuild and maintenance budget. Figure at least 15k per freshening and likely more. And with the current package there’s no way you can go 20 nights on a motor.
There's no way they are getting 20 shows between rebuilds. 10 tops. And it's 8-12k per rebuild. We rebuild our 360 motors every 12 races. The top 5 teams are spending 60-75k a season on rebuilds alone. Plus you never factored in all the major races (Knoxville Nats, Kings Royal, Big one) that they all buy brand new engines and cars specifically for those events.
Seems a bit soft. I’m thinking closer to 800/850. Owners basically need to me able to cover 1M to float the best of the best.
And many race fans criticize drivers if their Dad has warbucks, we need rich guys to have a sport - figure it out haters
I guess in a lower level glass like dirt modified that's local weekend warrior yes DAD is the man.
Merchandise sales for the top teams would definitely put them in the black.
Content starts at 2:10
Only thing I see missing would be meal money for the crew.
I think that was included with the hotel costs. $100K, nice round even number.
We used to do it on $30,000 for the full year laugh out loud
As a fan,I'm thankful for the car owners and businesses that are willing to lose money on racing in order to entertain me.
It is not inexpensive to operate any type of race car and team, even at the so-called entry level. It all adds up when things go sideways.
I agree 100% I have always said to Maintain a car is horrible but to build everything from the bottom up is where it gets very pricey.
So the old adage is still true: "If you want to make a million dollars racing, start with two million!"
Need a guy like you over on Rumble. Wouldn't hurt to try to establish a base by uploading your stuff on both platforms. Keep up the good work.
Some outlaw crew chiefs looking around like who’s making 100k ?! 😅😅😅
Running regional Nascar weekly race series back in 2001- 2008. If you wanted to compete for the national championship, you needed 20 wins. If you came in 2nd, the night was a waste of recourses. I think WOO would be a better option tbh. The only number I would say is low is engine and chassis. You aren't running a season without blowing a 75k engine into an ugly coffee table for a fan. Bend a titanium wheel? $400, destroy it, well...
For a team your under, he'll I can tell you forsure a Smith ti bill for one is 50k plus for a year. The big teams sprint cars or midgets are dishing out an extreme amount of cash. You wouldn't believe some top midget Motors
ya'll don't have entry fees for each event?
World of Outlaws Sprint Car events don't have entry fees.
Great video
I would buy a nice toater with slide outs and sleep everybody instead of spending 100,000 for hotels. But either way it's very fukin expensive
Shitters full...! 🤣
One thing for sure, I'm not going racing in my lifetime.
Great video but I think your numbers are on the very low side.no mention of food crew travel like driving or flights and rental cars.i would say you are about 120k off on the low side.i would say it's gonna cost you 750,000 to 900,000 a year.plus you got the little things like waste oil and fuel removal shipping on parts and other things
In sprint car racing, crew members don't fly or get rental cars. They ride in the truck.
Marks wouldn't lie to me would he?
Really interesting
It's easy to make a million dollars racing you just have to start with 2 million dollars.😃👍
great content! i guess that's a nice sized deficit for tax purposes for some car owners perhaps?
It certainly can be.
It sure is.
The best is when you reach out to sponsor and they never respond back.
watched probably half the ad and left
RUclips tip for the future: You can skip ahead in any video.
while this is a lot of money, it's still astronomically cheap compared to indycar (~10 million) and F1(lots and lots of millions). interesting stuff
this is interesting
A lot of money in that ole racing to be made. (Cough)