One thing I noticed early on, on Chaos Turn 1 was mis-using the Swiftstride rule. I've seen so many people try to just play it fast and say "Roll 3d6 and pick the highest two" or some variation of that. That is not how it works. You roll 2d6, pick the highest and then add 1d6. That is a MASSIVE difference. As an example, rolling a 6, 5 and a 1 and dropping the lowest is vastly different then rolling a 6 and 5, dropping the lowest and then adding a 1.
This; you can also get 12+move charge range (being about 3" farther than max declarable charge) which is relevant for wheeling during your charge to get more models in combat if desired in certain scenarios.
Hey mate; ye we used different coloured dice I believe to differentiate (I’ll double check now on the vid but that’s what we’ve been doing for all our other games)
There is no maximum charge range of 9 on the dice, its still 12. What is 9 is the maximum distance you can declare the charge, which takes the maximum bonus from swiftstride to be 3"
1:29:40 The Ironbreakers are Heavy Infantry so a flank will only disrupt with a unit strength of 10+. I only see 4 cav there which is 8, so by my math the unit would gain 2 combat res and make it a tie.
Drilled allows you to Redress Ranks for free. Redress Ranks is done in the Remaining Moves step of the Movement Phase (ie AFTER Declare Charges, Compulsory Moves and Charge Moves). You cannot use it to Redress Ranks from a March Column before charging because you cannot declare a charge when in said formation, and you cannot change from that formation until several steps after charge declarations and moves.
@@r.j.macready immediately before MOVING. Movement takes place in the Remaining Moves step of the Movement phase. The game differentiates between moves and charges. Also everything else I noted stops you declaring the charges in the first place.
@@blastvader Not sold on claiming a charge isnt movement. The second movement sub phase is even called Charge Moves. 1. Declare the charge in the declare charges sub phase (specifically allowed to declare a charge in marching column even if they arnt allowed to charge while in that formation). 2. Second sub phase - Charge moves they redress for free immediately before making the charge move. Are the redress is made from drilled they then perform a charge move as normal.
Moving to maximise units after a charge isn't the correct, and people were playing it incorrectly in 8th too. When you charge in, the charging units must manoeuvre to maximise, but after that, they are lined up as they are, you don't slide units or move models around to maximise after the charge. It can be very important for positioning
@@wazzok2973 but the King was in a challange and hatred of the King is only for characters, which means the longbeards who could only hit the unit could not reroll any hits.
personally the 1999 restriction feels pretty unnecessary especially this early after release edit(sorry forgot to place my disclaimer) i watch BRs to learn the rules and learn more by going through the rulebook at the same time. you cannot use drilled before charging drilled allows you to perform the redress the ranks maneuver for free before that units move not at the start of the movement phase. so you will have had to have declared the charge first which you can't from a marching column and even if you could the only maneuver a unit my perform after declaring a charge is a wheel you add the full die value to your charge move for swiftstride it adds 3" to your max charge range challenge vs chaos lord and dwarf king is to the death pg 211 because he gave ground and you followed up the fight is still ongoing gyro might not have been caught should have measured you have to reach the fleeing unit if you make contact with a different unit before that the fleeing unit is not caught see pg 157 pursuit into a fresh enemy
Hey mate: ye the cap was probably too soon but Iain had read it and it sounded reasonable so we did it (I mean my army comp wouldn’t have changed and other than allowing a second king which knowing Iain he wouldn’t have done) So on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there were all be doing it like that! And good spot on the pursuit! On a similar note it seems if you run them down you stop at the enemies point they fled to aswell you don’t sail past which I think we did wrong here aswell
Excellent Report! Subbed. As much TOW content as you can stand to do will be voraciously consumed. Would very much enjoy Iain doing a deep Dwarf dive. (get it? deep dwarf...)
Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it! I did and how funny I found it makes me slightly question the path my life has taken haha We’ve actually done one out tomorrow!
Great game lads, really enjoyed it. Surprised the Longbeards didn't do more damage. Would love to see more Old World content, but love your Heresy stuff too!
Ye it’s first time so should have popped then: luckily I think it was for the better viewing/game experience haha but next time we’ll be sure to get it right!
After having read the rules and being a 6th Ed vet there were still things I forget.. But watchuing you guys play helped alot! Like Swiftstride and the dudes in the fighting rank not in base to base just getting one attack. Kept forgetting those things.. Good! Fun watching and I learn the rules better! Nice to see there is another BR posted today. :)
Glad you enjoyed it mate! Its almost as hard a switch to get the minutia right as approaching it as a fresh game I think but hopefully you enjoy it as much as we are!
did i miss the stand and shoot reaction of the thunderers? I think the marauders would have suffered a lot and i think it even counts to combat res. and dwarfs don't get -1 to hit while doing stand and shoot.
Ooop thanks for the heads up I’ll edit now! Edit: i know what it is I edited 50s out of us saying we’re doing 1999pts (which didn’t effect our list writing so it was an unnecessary comment! I’ll edit the times after that aswell)
Theyre from Highlands Minitatures (3d prints), theyre available on Etsy, if you want them to fit in with the gw dwarf range 90% size or selecting a 28mm option is needed (ive recently printed a slayer at 90% and it looks spot on)
Old World is about 280 years after Mordheim and 240 years before WHFB. 3:49 Ha, I recognize that runesmith model. 1:05:18 Based on the FAQ (which came out after filming), it is not a new combat, so the challenge would continue. I am uncertain whether Drilled let's you redress before your charge move. I suspect not, because if so it's by threading the needle between a few rules.
Makes sense for the challenge definitely on that I think! On the drilled and charging: on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation! They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there seemed to all be doing it like that! It’s a crazy good rule
@@the-batcave6793 Okay, saw some youtube video where they said. "Changing ranks counts as maneuver and then not allowed to charge even if they have drilled." I don't have the rules so I can't read about
So on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation! They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there seemed to all be doing it like that! It’s a crazy good rule!
@@Lassemalten I don't think so. On page 126 it says "Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move." I think Drilled counts as "unless stated otherwise" in that sentence, so a Drilled unit can redress the ranks before the charge move and other units cannot.
@@tomaszhajto2445do you mean when I charged Iain’s gyrocopters why did he not flee as a reaction to this? I think (based on previous games) that he thought he’d beat them with his multiple attacks, high toughness and full plate, as he has before
Hey mate: its from the Waroffice, theyre website has gone down at the moment but if you message them on FB theyre super helpful (i jsut got all my bigger base size movement trays off them through FB last week)
Great report! Subbed! The only one I see these days where people are actually aware of most of the ruleset. Couple of things, Drilled units cannot reform ranks and charge, Charging specifically prohibits any maneuvers except for a single wheel. Also, marauders winning the draw due to musician should not impose any penalty on the gyrocopter break test. You have to break, yes, but you did not get any modifiers. That dwarf deployment tho. Give WM charges on Turn 2, give gyro charges on turn 1 on a distance that allows overrun onto thunderers if lost, around 15-18" more terrain behind to deploy.
Hey mate: glad you enjoyed it! On the drilled issue (its obv a big topic right now in the community) being able to drilled and charge is something the Playtesters I saw at Warhammer World on TOW release were playing it (and the inro game staff explained it) so weve taken our ques off them in that regards. Itll have to wait for an FAQ to be resolved though as theres enough of a question about it that I think it deserves one at this point either way! I get thats not a satisfying answer/reason btw (cos its like a "trust me" story), but just thats how/why weve been doing it that way And didnt realise the musician didnt impose a LD penalty (I thought it was an actual win of the combat by 1!) Good spot there!
Hi, thank you for the battle report! I play dwarves, so I am biased. I feel like the unit in reserve was a big problem, and maybe it was not the best to position it on the left flank. Also I feel like the chaos player could have make better use of the hounds and fast cavalry. Anyway, good game and list, hope to see you both battling again!
Glad you enjoyed it mate; the hounds could’ve definately been used better, they were the first unit drop and when Iain but his cannons and unit where he did I thought the 30pts was worth “sacrificing” to get the knights up the board unscathed! And definitely the reserved were in my favour this time: a block of missile troops vs a fast cav unit was in my favour
Oooh id not thought of that in this instance, had just been thinking of the rank bonus to Ld not taking effect (and I usually put characters in so they dont normally get it) but it couldve really helped in the charge vs the war machines!
Hi guys. Nice vid. I know it's been 7 months ago but I hope someone will see this comment. Why on 20:30 he says the cannon cannot shoot the marching column of knights? What am I missing there? Thanks to whoever will help.
I think we both brain farted and defaulted to prev edition rules (6th which wed been playing until about 2 weeks before you could only see through 2" of woods so wouldve blocked LOS) I think Id said it and iain defaulted to "oh ye thats right I cant" so my bad on that one as I remember Glad you enjoyed the vid though!
Hey. Nice to see dwarfs on the table. I saw you use a wheel template. Question about that. Does it take the rank width into account? Because that will affect the wheel movent since its a part of a full circle??
It doesnt, so that particular one will be for a 4x25mm wide unit (im going to get war office to make one out of acrylic with multiple sizings in i think (so it can be seen through aligned with the right size easily) the one we had in this vid was actually for Warhammer ancient battles!
I'm mostly seeing the opposite. As another said, really wide units are very unwieldy and open themselves up to being multicharged and decimated. You're better with two blocks of 20 or 25 rather than a big stupid 8th ed style horde. That takes up a decent chunk of your deployment zone and spends most of the game struggling with terrain and getting in the way. Many of the battle reports I've seen are mostly showing unit sizes and frontages that would be familiar to players of Warhammer pre-8th (5 wide chaff with elite stuff maybe 6 or 7 to maximise attacks).
7-8 as a starting point I think: drilled allowing you to redress to play with ranks and movement easy is great I’ve had success with 10x4 for both skeles and men at arms
@blastvader if you can get stubborn I think it massively changes the calculation really, just being able to reliably not run means you can commit a bit more to the overwhelming numbers style
@@paulthetyyppi Yeah, if they're moving. But what if they're unbreakable or nearly unbreakable Dwarfs standing around in a "castle"? Why not go 10-12 wide?
Enjoyed the battle - thanks. I didn't quite make it to the end as it got a bit one-sided and I like Dwarfs, but it was well presented and helpful to see the new rules in action. So many bad rolls from both players I'm not sure how some of the combats and shooting would have worked out with better dice. On the right as we looked at it I think the Dwarfs suffered a bit from the Gyros taking the charge and having the Thunderers in line for the overrun. Missing the third block of troops for the start of the game didn't help them either and kind of meant that the King was going to have to kill the Chaos Lord on the other flank (which he might have ended up doing particularly if you'd remembered the hatred, but of course he didn't). Don't know if you picked up on this later in the game, but I'm afraid the Dwarf missile troops and war machine crews are now all WS3 believe it or not - the first ever WS3 Dwarfs after 40 years.
Ye I think it was largely decided (IMO) by the gyro breaking on the right when they did and the stalemate being broken by a propper fail of the break test by the king (with help along the way as you mentioned) Glad you liked it though, im going to try and get mroe dwarfs on. Crazyness the WS3 crew aswell (though in 6th they were insane to dislodge, last year i had one of my full marauder horse units not do a cannon crew in twice)
@@BearfootMiniatures Will look forward to seeing more Dwarfs then. Iain came across really well so hopefully he'll be back with them at some point. The other army I more or less have (needs a little bit adding to it) is Chaos Warriors so it's all good for me though my collection might be a bit lacking in fast stuff compared to your army.
Old Warhammer Fantasy models. Some are now out of production, some were repurposed for Age of Sigmar. They are gradually re-releasing the old models and some new ones for the Old World. Or you could just get 3rd party models and use them instead... A lot of the minis in the video are not Games Workshop ones (as far as I can tell)
I know the 1999 limit has been a little controversial online, but I feel it is just the easiest way to keep things a little more balanced without going too invasive into the comp. Great batrep :))
Thanks mate! Ye, i suppose well see if it becomes a problem, me and iain had written lists that conformed to the 1000pts levels anyway so I suppose we'll see if stuff gets really crazy
@@Xgourouneitor playing 2000 point games with the unit limits from 1000 points. for example, dwarfs can take 0-3 warmachines per 1000 points, so a 1999 point army can only take 3 max, whereas a 2000 point army can take 6.
@@Xgourouneitor so its a bit ive editted out of the vid cos it was unnecessary for this game as we didnt even hit the 1999 limits (as we were just playing that way) and as mentioned its a bit controvercial so early in the game Essentially the limits of 0-1 per 1000 or dwarfs say 0-3 warmachines per 1000 limit you to the 1000pts levels at 1999, you need the full 2000 to be able to take 0-6 war machines Which I like the 0-3 war machines, or 0-1 king/0-1 Exhaulted chaos champion as general list building levels but it was prob unnecassary so early in the games life
The dwarves fought hard but felt a bit smashed from the chaos , feels like chaos is a tough battle. Though dwarves being defensive seems pretty on brand for such short folk with little legs.
I agree, theyre (chaos) very blunt and good at getting into your opponents face and forcing your opponent to react to you: more blocks of infantry needed for the dwarfs I think!
Really enjoyed this video, you both seem like very chill and entertaining guys. Never got a chance to play Fantasy, so I'm excited to get started with some Chaos lads in Old World. I've seen a lot of people disappointed with the non-chosen chaos warriors, but I don't have much reference, are they underwhelming for their points?
People are understandably disappointed because they're the first ever Chaos Warriors not to have two attacks. Also that they don't count as having 'full plate' despite the models sporting the heaviest armour going as they always have done. Put all that aside and they're still going to be pretty good, they just won't feel quite like the real thing to older players who when they can will maybe end up fielding more Chosen who get the things back the standard warriors have lost.
The Dwarf army is pretty much all Highlands 3D prints, so if you've got a printer then it will cost some resin and either money for the files or sleuthing around Telegram to pirate them. The Chaos army is made up of a lot of 3rd party stuff too. As regards the current GW pricing. The TK box is about 20% under inflation and has more stuff in it than the release box that came out during 6th edition. So as to 'how much will they cost' - Less than when I was in my late teens, proportionally.
Ye the dwarfs are prints: my chaos have some prints (warriors and spawn), the marauder horse are the new plastics (10 being £33) The old knights of chaos and archaon are the expensive bits the fine cast goes for £50 approx and metal £90+ The knights would be like £30 for 5 if the new plastics but £50 for those 6th models
Great battle report, I hope you make more of these. I absolutely do not like how Ranged units work atm. Shooting only form a single ranks seems to make any non volleyfire or skirmisher missile unit quite usless (unless they get multiple shost, the amount fo shots fired with usually just WS 3 is pointles in it's wffect. War machines having no WS4 engineer anymore too. they usually shoot on long range which BS 3 with such a low amount of shots leaves you with nothing. All dedicated missile units should get BS4. They do that and train that and should be better in that than the average close combat line warrior. In the current setup, negating rank bonus by flanking is way too important to sacrifice CQC for lousy shooting. but crossbows and handguns are quite dead atm (except repeater handguns). at leats in my opinion. also hand weapons suck massively too. Unless any kind of troop has special rules to improve them or taking two, they are too unreliable. And reliability especially with low amount of attacks is the only key to beat static combat boni. And Initiative low units suffer massively from the "stepping forward" mechanic.
Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it! The one rank I can get on board with (coming from 6th up until a month ago you see) The hand weapons is a give and take i suppose, I mourn the loss of handweapon shield bonus, but the certain armies (like chaos) that get boosts to their handweapons AP (or say reroll 1s to wound for high elves) atleast have something I suppose!
Guys, dwarf shooting troops lost the WS of 4. They are WS 3! They became nearly worthless. Rangers is the way to go, especially since they have both WS of 4 and BS of 4 and cost just a tiny bit more. Thanks for the report, I have been enjoying it and sharpening my axe, of course...
A big change! I think Iain would say he values the Stand and shoot then hitting at WS3 vs just hitting at WS4 but (with my points in the Dwarf army discussion) I think it definately puts pavour towards warriors in my mind than the old every warrior is a quarellor setup A big change on crews even especially for my army as ive had problems with no character marauder cav taking on crews before becasue they match my WS,
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes. Some people now experiment with a three lines of 20 GW quarrellers - each one behind the other. In my opinion that is a viable tactic only in some very specific circumstances, as there are sufficiently many ways to counter it. I am also more in favor of the warrior setup - shieldwall rule on the warriors is not one to sneer at.
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes, we agreed, that those clan dwarfs, who are unable to fight properly, are either given a crossbow/handgun, or are sent to the engineers guild for the artillery crewman carrier...
The 1999 points limit is stupid. Just because it says 0-6 war machines for example, doesn’t mean you have to take 6. Seems like a stupid house rule for a game that’s only just been released.
It's a left over from 8th edition and it shouldn't be applied to a new game. As you said, everything's already internally balanced so why comp it more?
It’s just something Iain wanted to try out really so why not was my thought (though I don’t think it would’ve effected anything we did here cos we didn’t hit any sort of limit (maybe he would’ve taken another king but I doubt it knowing Iain)
It is made because this stupid game that just got released is so broken and OP and allows spam all over and that is why it simply needs to be restricted a bit. And I do not even mention tournament gaming, which will be ridiculous without proper compositions like it was necessary in all WHF editions ever by the way.
Everyone takes too many shooting units with Dwarfs. They don't do enough damage and every time they get closed on in combat they die to dedicated combat units. I see too many long drawn out lines with dwarfs. Its such a vulnerable formation because the opponent just rolls through the squishy centers and then turns to envelope the melee infantry. Enemies are getting charges off on turn 2-3. That's 2-3 round of shooting at most, with a frontage of 10 is 20-30 shots, usually hitting on 5's, around 1-12 hits , and maybe 5-7 wounds depending on toughness. Then there's armor saves. At most, 10 shooters are reliable enough to get rid of a small unit of fast cav or other similar chaff. I wouldn't take large ranged units that I couldn't protect. if you must, take small units of like 5 and disperse them between your larger infantry formations, use them to clear annoying chaff and force the enemy to engage your infantry head on. Pretty sure that's the Dawi playbook moving forward. I may be off my rocker but if you don't take war machines and just go melee infantry you neutralize the enemy chaff tactics entirely. In my mind ranged is a trap, take a token amount for the psychological effect and the ability to put some pressure at range. With things like marching columns, and the way break tests work now, I wouldn't build a list without at least 3 sizable dwarf infantry blocks. Gyro's are probably the best thing in the roster, shame to see them used as throwaway chaff in this, you had enough ranged to deal with the horsemen. I agree they could have been much better utilized.
I think Ian was just a bit overconfident with the gyros as he's beaten those units with the combat stat line dwarf pilots a BUNCH of times now I agree on shooting though, or even just having the shooting units and treating them like skirmishers that are going to flee behind your blocks rather than stand and shoot (as I see them taking the charge to just die a TON)
The gyro tests were mental: every other combat my marauder horse have fought against Iains gyros the gyros have slapped the horse about, and to have it lose I imagine was shocking, he went in so confident
Good battle, though it did maybe seem a bit more One Sided than it should've been. I especially appreciated some good demos of Wheeling with the protractor thing. Marching Column + Drilled seems absurdly strong, i think i am going to wait and see if that is the intention. One thing i've noticed is that Flails never lose their AP according to their entry so i am considering it as a cheap upgrade for Chaos Characters, the 2 hands thing is a non-factor really. However i noticed you didn't play it this way, would be eager to know why as the Chaos Knight Kit comes with a nice Flail i was thinking of using.
Ye i think basically both our dice rolls (remembering back) werent great but iain failing a few LD9 break tests and just breaking (not FBIGO) just massively tipped it tbh On the flails its because Id just taken the flain info in as you lose both the S and AP (like just losing the full lance), I did play a game yesterday after seeing your comment where my chaos lord used a flail and it performed admirably!
Great Batrep, maybe the Dwarf player invested too much in large blocks when a few more smaller units could have supported each other quite nicely? Enjoyed viewing though! Mark him down in the book of grudges!
ye agreed, i think some more blocks dedicated to combat (and the quarellers having been around as a block at the start) would have really helped, as 2 blocks gave my faster army the ability to pick them off a bit more easily
Thats my favourite spoon! Ill set the scene: I was a young(er) heresy player and I decided to go to an event id heard great things about in Sweden So off I went with an Iron Warriors Armoured company, with nothing but tanks Over 5 games my army was crushed systematically and I ended the event with double the previous negative score (as the loser got negative points based on points difference) than the previous Low score in Swedish heresy events Had a great time though!
I’m still undecided: I’ve seen them do worse in 6th a bunch of times but if it’s consistent maybe (jury’s out for me still) not really got experience with 8th though so maybe from that!?
True true: I mean Iain used 2 in this battle so it’s not like a restriction was reached there atall, really we were just mentioning something that was little more than off hand comments really (maybe less looking at FB groups before filming a bat rep for us haha)
@@BearfootMiniatures yeah i get you. Also yes, the various Facebook groups are so cancerous and toxic right now...people have waited almost 10 years for this and all they have done is whine, moan and try and break the game...
It is made because this stupid game that just got released is so broken and OP and allows spam all over and that is why it simply needs to be restricted a bit. And I do not even mention tournament gaming, which will be ridiculous without proper compositions like it was necessary in all WHF editions ever by the way.
Shooting seems kind of pointless in this game. War machines do okay but are unreliable and cost a lot of points. Regular shooting starts out poor and becomes almost worthless due to lots of negaitive modifiers that come up quite often (range and movement) and no positives. It's agood in a way as you don't want shooting to be too strong but I feel like it's almost better just to spend those points on good combat units vs crossbows and thunderers that do no damage and then get run down. As to 1999 points-Yes, you could take 6 cannons, but would that actually be a good idea? How many points is that? Will those cannons kill enough to warrant the 600+ points worth of infantry blocks you could have had instead? Or will the enemy army just take a beating for a couple of turns and then run you down because you don't have enough troops? Time will tell I suppose. Looks like fun overall, though I'm sad about the loss of step up and the loss of additional ranks getting to fight. I liked the way ordinary troops actually mattered in 8th ed vs other editions (including this one) where it often comes down to characters and maybe the unit champion actually getting to strike. Initiative mattering is a good thing I suppose. I'll have to give it a go and see how it feels, I guess :)
100% right: we probably shouldn’t have mentioned it as it was basically off hand comments as neither of us were effected by it (I mean I didn’t have arty and wouldn’t have been able to afford another chaos lord, and Iain only took 2 cannons!)
Why take bad and stupid dwarf cannons when you can have grudge throwers? With grudge throwers it is much easier to shoot down single models AND regiments and they are even a bit cheaper and they even have indirect fire. Cannons are probably, next to flame cannons, the worst artillery choices dwarfs have. Sadly the game will be herohammer when playing against competitive people... they could have simply solved that in really pushing ordinary troops simply by increasing rank bonus over all, especially for RnF infantry units. But no, instead they even shrink it down to 2 for the average unit and make most artillery pieces weaker against single models/cowboys... what a bad joke from GW, made to make money via selling tons of single models, especially new cowboys on big mount models I suppose will be released in the future here and there.
Oooh I can’t remember the exact numbers right now but potentially; I think I may have been off by like one model (I seem to remember me and Iain talking about it and came down to I was double not over double or something like that)
Im doing a slow grow of brets so expect prob monthly bret content bat rep style and painting vids (and ill be talking about them in the friday Hobby casts, with Lil Legend, alot I imagine!) Grimdarkness is going to come in the form of it being a peasant and foot knight dominant army based on pre camalot, Saxon/norman proto knights and then the horse mounted exaggerated Chivalric knights (which ill dirty up to get a more grounded tone after making them all vibrant) That the plan anyway!
@@BearfootMiniatures Yup, great cinematography and acting, interesting story and complex characters. All with grimdark medieval France in the background.
@@BearfootMiniatures I always wished the Duke/Baron had not been on a Pegasus. It’s just too much, it’s hard to pull off a believable grim scheme with giant Pegasus and unicorns.
You seriously play with that reserve rule? This is such a stupid rule that every tournament should forbid and even in private I would never use. It simply is entire battle plan destroying. Especially with slow dwarfs or shooting units like artillery or crossbow/handgun wielding models... utter nonsense for real!
Ye man it was day after release and a core of that scenerio: and we weren’t playing a tournament was our logic or the lists would’ve been massively different aswell!
I think you may have misinterpreted the humour mate, we both rolled below avg id say in this game and Iain certainly worse (to which my sarcasm implying that the worse look 'always happened to me', I mean iain failed 2 ld9 tests and a ld10 test and just broke)
@@BearfootMiniatures each to their own but I wouldn’t like to play you or find your video enjoyable to watch. Just some feedback from a potential subscriber that’s all. You can tell you were heavily invested in the game and each time you rolled bad you made sure to bring it up rather than slide by. I mean humour is supposed to make you laugh not make you stop watching the video.
One thing I noticed early on, on Chaos Turn 1 was mis-using the Swiftstride rule. I've seen so many people try to just play it fast and say "Roll 3d6 and pick the highest two" or some variation of that. That is not how it works.
You roll 2d6, pick the highest and then add 1d6. That is a MASSIVE difference. As an example, rolling a 6, 5 and a 1 and dropping the lowest is vastly different then rolling a 6 and 5, dropping the lowest and then adding a 1.
You can speed it up by using a different coloured die for the Swiftstride one though.
This; you can also get 12+move charge range (being about 3" farther than max declarable charge) which is relevant for wheeling during your charge to get more models in combat if desired in certain scenarios.
Came here to say this. Max charge is 6+move +3 swift stride , but rollable charge distance is d6+move+d6 swift stride.
Hey mate; ye we used different coloured dice I believe to differentiate (I’ll double check now on the vid but that’s what we’ve been doing for all our other games)
There is no maximum charge range of 9 on the dice, its still 12. What is 9 is the maximum distance you can declare the charge, which takes the maximum bonus from swiftstride to be 3"
1:29:40 The Ironbreakers are Heavy Infantry so a flank will only disrupt with a unit strength of 10+. I only see 4 cav there which is 8, so by my math the unit would gain 2 combat res and make it a tie.
Oooh you’re right! Good spot there!
I definitely want to see more old world content. The rules set is dense but the games feel quite easy to follow compared to 30k and 40k.
Great to hear mate as I’m loving it at the moment so definitely going to be doing TOW
Drilled allows you to Redress Ranks for free. Redress Ranks is done in the Remaining Moves step of the Movement Phase (ie AFTER Declare Charges, Compulsory Moves and Charge Moves). You cannot use it to Redress Ranks from a March Column before charging because you cannot declare a charge when in said formation, and you cannot change from that formation until several steps after charge declarations and moves.
The drilled rule makes an exception that you can redress immediately before moving.
@@r.j.macready immediately before MOVING. Movement takes place in the Remaining Moves step of the Movement phase. The game differentiates between moves and charges. Also everything else I noted stops you declaring the charges in the first place.
@@blastvader Not sold on claiming a charge isnt movement. The second movement sub phase is even called Charge Moves. 1. Declare the charge in the declare charges sub phase (specifically allowed to declare a charge in marching column even if they arnt allowed to charge while in that formation). 2. Second sub phase - Charge moves they redress for free immediately before making the charge move. Are the redress is made from drilled they then perform a charge move as normal.
Under declaring charges it does say a unit in a marching column can declare a charge.
Drilled is for Dwarf warriors to march up in a column and then redress the ranks to line up to receive a charge, not declare it.
Moving to maximise units after a charge isn't the correct, and people were playing it incorrectly in 8th too. When you charge in, the charging units must manoeuvre to maximise, but after that, they are lined up as they are, you don't slide units or move models around to maximise after the charge. It can be very important for positioning
Great painted highlands minis!
Ill pass along the kind words to iain mate
The Dwarf General should have had hatred vs that Chaos character.
I shall pass it on to Iain cos that’s a big buff he’d been missing out on!
Not that it would have come up in this game but the long beards would have benefited from the hatred too.
@@wazzok2973fairly sure it’s only hammerers that benefit from lords hatred
@@bobrobertson394 Long beards too.
@@wazzok2973 but the King was in a challange and hatred of the King is only for characters, which means the longbeards who could only hit the unit could not reroll any hits.
personally the 1999 restriction feels pretty unnecessary especially this early after release
edit(sorry forgot to place my disclaimer) i watch BRs to learn the rules and learn more by going through the rulebook at the same time.
you cannot use drilled before charging drilled allows you to perform the redress the ranks maneuver for free before that units move not at the start of the movement phase. so you will have had to have declared the charge first which you can't from a marching column and even if you could the only maneuver a unit my perform after declaring a charge is a wheel
you add the full die value to your charge move for swiftstride it adds 3" to your max charge range
challenge vs chaos lord and dwarf king is to the death pg 211 because he gave ground and you followed up the fight is still ongoing
gyro might not have been caught should have measured you have to reach the fleeing unit if you make contact with a different unit before that the fleeing unit is not caught see pg 157 pursuit into a fresh enemy
Hey mate: ye the cap was probably too soon but Iain had read it and it sounded reasonable so we did it (I mean my army comp wouldn’t have changed and other than allowing a second king which knowing Iain he wouldn’t have done)
So on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation
They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there were all be doing it like that!
And good spot on the pursuit! On a similar note it seems if you run them down you stop at the enemies point they fled to aswell you don’t sail past which I think we did wrong here aswell
Excellent Report! Subbed. As much TOW content as you can stand to do will be voraciously consumed. Would very much enjoy Iain doing a deep Dwarf dive. (get it? deep dwarf...)
Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it!
I did and how funny I found it makes me slightly question the path my life has taken haha
We’ve actually done one out tomorrow!
Awesome stuff! Hoping for more battle reports + including the legacy armies in the mix.
Definately mate! Ogres have already been filmed and probably doing lizards high elves tomorrow!
Love it! More Old World Content please!
Great game lads, really enjoyed it. Surprised the Longbeards didn't do more damage. Would love to see more Old World content, but love your Heresy stuff too!
Thanks mate! Ye I think it was a combination of wild rolling and chaos knights man, they’re so good!
@@BearfootMiniatures your chaos knights were sheeet, the true MVP were their horses.
I saw on another channel that Stubborn auto happens first time only in a battle, and that it's not a choice when.
Ye it’s first time so should have popped then: luckily I think it was for the better viewing/game experience haha but next time we’ll be sure to get it right!
After having read the rules and being a 6th Ed vet there were still things I forget.. But watchuing you guys play helped alot! Like Swiftstride and the dudes in the fighting rank not in base to base just getting one attack. Kept forgetting those things.. Good! Fun watching and I learn the rules better! Nice to see there is another BR posted today. :)
Glad you enjoyed it mate!
Its almost as hard a switch to get the minutia right as approaching it as a fresh game I think but hopefully you enjoy it as much as we are!
did i miss the stand and shoot reaction of the thunderers? I think the marauders would have suffered a lot and i think it even counts to combat res. and dwarfs don't get -1 to hit while doing stand and shoot.
They got pursued into so couldn’t make a charge reaction which was massive for the game I think
Does warband special rule allow you to reroll swift stride bonus dice and also any other extra dice e.g. spells which give you d3 extra charge
Hey mate: I think so but reading it I suppose it may not as its a modifier to the result?
Just a little timestamp remark, Dwarf list start at 2:12 instead 3:00
Ooop thanks for the heads up I’ll edit now!
Edit: i know what it is I edited 50s out of us saying we’re doing 1999pts (which didn’t effect our list writing so it was an unnecessary comment! I’ll edit the times after that aswell)
When you do a march (or triple march), you cant do another manouvre such as turn.
Which Company produced the Dwarf Infantry? Especially the Iron Breakers are awesome
Theyre from Highlands Minitatures (3d prints), theyre available on Etsy, if you want them to fit in with the gw dwarf range 90% size or selecting a 28mm option is needed (ive recently printed a slayer at 90% and it looks spot on)
Old World is about 280 years after Mordheim and 240 years before WHFB.
3:49 Ha, I recognize that runesmith model.
1:05:18 Based on the FAQ (which came out after filming), it is not a new combat, so the challenge would continue.
I am uncertain whether Drilled let's you redress before your charge move. I suspect not, because if so it's by threading the needle between a few rules.
Makes sense for the challenge definitely on that I think!
On the drilled and charging: on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation!
They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there seemed to all be doing it like that! It’s a crazy good rule
@@BearfootMiniatures As I said, threading the needle between a few rules.
@@christopherclayton5500 I also still find that very uncertain and that it needs to be FAQed soon!
But yet we have different events, Elves are now friends with dwarfves again which in WHFB was not the case.
@@Grimmrog What makes you say they are friends?
Love it.
You’re right about drill.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it
We think so here and was taught to us at the whw release day as that but well see in any faq I suppose!
fyi, you can keep using flails after the first round of combat. Only the strength bonus goes away, the AP-2 stays
Oooh that’s really good actually!
OH yeah cool, nice find!
48:30, is it really allowed to drill and then make a charge?
Drilled units can change formation and charge.
@@the-batcave6793 Okay, saw some youtube video where they said. "Changing ranks counts as maneuver and then not allowed to charge even if they have drilled."
I don't have the rules so I can't read about
So on p119 it says units in a matching column may declare a charge, then when you actually come to make the charge before doing anything you can redress into a normal formation!
They were playing it this way in the intro games on TOW release at whw and the playtester games there seemed to all be doing it like that! It’s a crazy good rule!
@@BearfootMiniatures great thanks, so it applies even to units without drilling?
@@Lassemalten I don't think so. On page 126 it says "Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move." I think Drilled counts as "unless stated otherwise" in that sentence, so a Drilled unit can redress the ranks before the charge move and other units cannot.
Really good work guys, love the gameplay. And as a Brit in the US, the accents made me homesick.
Thanks mate! Hopefully not tugging at your earstrings too hard: just remind yourself of the portions haha
Why do u not flee gyro in 1st round as charge reaction?
On the left he’s beaten that unit a bunch of times in combat so was feeling confident: can’t say for the right of table!
@@BearfootMiniatures but why are u decide on cc? Not flee as charge reaction?
I wondered the same thing
@@tomaszhajto2445do you mean when I charged Iain’s gyrocopters why did he not flee as a reaction to this? I think (based on previous games) that he thought he’d beat them with his multiple attacks, high toughness and full plate, as he has before
Is there a link for the tool used at 1:06:25 ?
Hey mate: its from the Waroffice, theyre website has gone down at the moment but if you message them on FB theyre super helpful (i jsut got all my bigger base size movement trays off them through FB last week)
Great report! Subbed! The only one I see these days where people are actually aware of most of the ruleset.
Couple of things, Drilled units cannot reform ranks and charge, Charging specifically prohibits any maneuvers except for a single wheel. Also, marauders winning the draw due to musician should not impose any penalty on the gyrocopter break test. You have to break, yes, but you did not get any modifiers.
That dwarf deployment tho. Give WM charges on Turn 2, give gyro charges on turn 1 on a distance that allows overrun onto thunderers if lost, around 15-18" more terrain behind to deploy.
Hey mate: glad you enjoyed it!
On the drilled issue (its obv a big topic right now in the community) being able to drilled and charge is something the Playtesters I saw at Warhammer World on TOW release were playing it (and the inro game staff explained it) so weve taken our ques off them in that regards. Itll have to wait for an FAQ to be resolved though as theres enough of a question about it that I think it deserves one at this point either way!
I get thats not a satisfying answer/reason btw (cos its like a "trust me" story), but just thats how/why weve been doing it that way
And didnt realise the musician didnt impose a LD penalty (I thought it was an actual win of the combat by 1!) Good spot there!
Actually scratch that, musician does impose a modifier.
Petition to add musicians to gyrocopters I guess? :D@@BearfootMiniatures
Haha 50pts a musician! Though it wasn’t a great showing I think they’re great with their steam cannons and mobility
Is more than one chosen unit allowed?
They’re on a separate 0-1 bullet (so warriors and knights) but then couldn’t have 2 chosen knight units
Where are the dwarfs from and what scale are they?
The dwarves are highlands minis prints, as for scale theyre printed at 100% I believe (or do you mean is that range 32mm or something?)
My word, those Highland Dwarfs are beautiful! Is there anywhere online where you have posted pictures of your army?
Theres not at the moment but Ill start posting them on insta since youve asked (though it is Iains army so ive got to give him credit!)
@@BearfootMiniatures Cheers!
I thought in order to disrupt the ranks of heavy infantry, the unit in your flank had to be unit strength 10 or higher?
Ye 100% right mate: I didn’t realise (seems obv looking back as it’s dwarf infantry) but in the heat of battle it didn’t occur to us
@@BearfootMiniatures totally understandable, wanted to be sure i wasn't getting the rules wrong lol. thank ya'll for the batrep!
Hi, thank you for the battle report!
I play dwarves, so I am biased.
I feel like the unit in reserve was a big problem, and maybe it was not the best to position it on the left flank. Also I feel like the chaos player could have make better use of the hounds and fast cavalry.
Anyway, good game and list, hope to see you both battling again!
Glad you enjoyed it mate; the hounds could’ve definately been used better, they were the first unit drop and when Iain but his cannons and unit where he did I thought the 30pts was worth “sacrificing” to get the knights up the board unscathed!
And definitely the reserved were in my favour this time: a block of missile troops vs a fast cav unit was in my favour
The Marauder Horsemen have the Warband special rule allowing them to reroll charge distances.
Oooh id not thought of that in this instance, had just been thinking of the rank bonus to Ld not taking effect (and I usually put characters in so they dont normally get it) but it couldve really helped in the charge vs the war machines!
@@BearfootMiniatures And the Forsakens Ap with the rending stacks with the ensorcelled weapons to a -3
brutal on that result certainly! Ill have to remember as i expand to have more forsaken... cos i definately want more
Dwarf Kings have Hatred enemy characters, should have rerolled those 2 misses in the challenge first round.
Mentalness! Good spot! I’ll let Iain know cos that’s a significant boost to have missed out on
Hi guys. Nice vid. I know it's been 7 months ago but I hope someone will see this comment. Why on 20:30 he says the cannon cannot shoot the marching column of knights? What am I missing there?
Thanks to whoever will help.
I think we both brain farted and defaulted to prev edition rules (6th which wed been playing until about 2 weeks before you could only see through 2" of woods so wouldve blocked LOS) I think Id said it and iain defaulted to "oh ye thats right I cant" so my bad on that one as I remember
Glad you enjoyed the vid though!
Hey. Nice to see dwarfs on the table. I saw you use a wheel template. Question about that. Does it take the rank width into account? Because that will affect the wheel movent since its a part of a full circle??
It doesnt, so that particular one will be for a 4x25mm wide unit (im going to get war office to make one out of acrylic with multiple sizings in i think (so it can be seen through aligned with the right size easily)
the one we had in this vid was actually for Warhammer ancient battles!
Ah. Well it looks cool.
Thoughts on unit width?
Feels like this edition encourages really wide units.
They will be unwieldy considering infantry is 25mm or 30mm. They will hit every forest and impassable terrain.
I'm mostly seeing the opposite. As another said, really wide units are very unwieldy and open themselves up to being multicharged and decimated. You're better with two blocks of 20 or 25 rather than a big stupid 8th ed style horde. That takes up a decent chunk of your deployment zone and spends most of the game struggling with terrain and getting in the way.
Many of the battle reports I've seen are mostly showing unit sizes and frontages that would be familiar to players of Warhammer pre-8th (5 wide chaff with elite stuff maybe 6 or 7 to maximise attacks).
7-8 as a starting point I think: drilled allowing you to redress to play with ranks and movement easy is great
I’ve had success with 10x4 for both skeles and men at arms
@blastvader if you can get stubborn I think it massively changes the calculation really, just being able to reliably not run means you can commit a bit more to the overwhelming numbers style
@@paulthetyyppi Yeah, if they're moving. But what if they're unbreakable or nearly unbreakable Dwarfs standing around in a "castle"? Why not go 10-12 wide?
Enjoyed the battle - thanks. I didn't quite make it to the end as it got a bit one-sided and I like Dwarfs, but it was well presented and helpful to see the new rules in action.
So many bad rolls from both players I'm not sure how some of the combats and shooting would have worked out with better dice. On the right as we looked at it I think the Dwarfs suffered a bit from the Gyros taking the charge and having the Thunderers in line for the overrun. Missing the third block of troops for the start of the game didn't help them either and kind of meant that the King was going to have to kill the Chaos Lord on the other flank (which he might have ended up doing particularly if you'd remembered the hatred, but of course he didn't).
Don't know if you picked up on this later in the game, but I'm afraid the Dwarf missile troops and war machine crews are now all WS3 believe it or not - the first ever WS3 Dwarfs after 40 years.
Ye I think it was largely decided (IMO) by the gyro breaking on the right when they did and the stalemate being broken by a propper fail of the break test by the king (with help along the way as you mentioned)
Glad you liked it though, im going to try and get mroe dwarfs on.
Crazyness the WS3 crew aswell (though in 6th they were insane to dislodge, last year i had one of my full marauder horse units not do a cannon crew in twice)
@@BearfootMiniatures Will look forward to seeing more Dwarfs then. Iain came across really well so hopefully he'll be back with them at some point. The other army I more or less have (needs a little bit adding to it) is Chaos Warriors so it's all good for me though my collection might be a bit lacking in fast stuff compared to your army.
You sirs have earned a sub!
Glad to hear you enjoyed it mate!
Heavy infantry need a unit strength of 10 to disrupt them on rear or flank, so the ironbreakers wouldn't have lost ranks.
Good spot! Ill try and remember for next time as its one of those things with so many rules interacting we just didnt think about it atall!
@BearfootMiniatures of course! I forget stuff or don't know rules all the time too, anything I do know and can help with, I'll let you know! :)
One question. Where do you get the minis to be able to play old world from? Are they just Age of Sigmar?
Old Warhammer Fantasy models. Some are now out of production, some were repurposed for Age of Sigmar. They are gradually re-releasing the old models and some new ones for the Old World.
Or you could just get 3rd party models and use them instead... A lot of the minis in the video are not Games Workshop ones (as far as I can tell)
@@AnthonyCarmine1000 where are the minis from the video from? I am looking for good alternate models
@@stuntman083the dwarves are from Highlands miniatures
@@warp_machine9141 thanks, and what about the chaos?
@@stuntman083 Dont know exactly, a lot of them look like kitbashes
I know the 1999 limit has been a little controversial online, but I feel it is just the easiest way to keep things a little more balanced without going too invasive into the comp. Great batrep :))
Thanks mate! Ye, i suppose well see if it becomes a problem, me and iain had written lists that conformed to the 1000pts levels anyway so I suppose we'll see if stuff gets really crazy
@@BearfootMiniatures Fair enough! If only GW could write some waterproof rules so comp wasn't really needed lol
What is the 1999 limit?
@@Xgourouneitor playing 2000 point games with the unit limits from 1000 points. for example, dwarfs can take 0-3 warmachines per 1000 points, so a 1999 point army can only take 3 max, whereas a 2000 point army can take 6.
@@Xgourouneitor so its a bit ive editted out of the vid cos it was unnecessary for this game as we didnt even hit the 1999 limits (as we were just playing that way) and as mentioned its a bit controvercial so early in the game
Essentially the limits of 0-1 per 1000 or dwarfs say 0-3 warmachines per 1000 limit you to the 1000pts levels at 1999, you need the full 2000 to be able to take 0-6 war machines
Which I like the 0-3 war machines, or 0-1 king/0-1 Exhaulted chaos champion as general list building levels but it was prob unnecassary so early in the games life
The dwarves fought hard but felt a bit smashed from the chaos , feels like chaos is a tough battle. Though dwarves being defensive seems pretty on brand for such short folk with little legs.
I agree, theyre (chaos) very blunt and good at getting into your opponents face and forcing your opponent to react to you: more blocks of infantry needed for the dwarfs I think!
Really enjoyed this video, you both seem like very chill and entertaining guys. Never got a chance to play Fantasy, so I'm excited to get started with some Chaos lads in Old World. I've seen a lot of people disappointed with the non-chosen chaos warriors, but I don't have much reference, are they underwhelming for their points?
Hey mate; I’d say they’re “disappointing”compared to chosen but really I find them a solid option especially as a core choice
Sure, that makes sense. I am quite tempted by forsaken as a core choice as well. khorne forsaken particularly seem like an absolute unit blender
People are understandably disappointed because they're the first ever Chaos Warriors not to have two attacks. Also that they don't count as having 'full plate' despite the models sporting the heaviest armour going as they always have done. Put all that aside and they're still going to be pretty good, they just won't feel quite like the real thing to older players who when they can will maybe end up fielding more Chosen who get the things back the standard warriors have lost.
How much would the armies cost if bought today?
How many kidneys can you sell?
The Dwarf army is pretty much all Highlands 3D prints, so if you've got a printer then it will cost some resin and either money for the files or sleuthing around Telegram to pirate them. The Chaos army is made up of a lot of 3rd party stuff too.
As regards the current GW pricing. The TK box is about 20% under inflation and has more stuff in it than the release box that came out during 6th edition. So as to 'how much will they cost' - Less than when I was in my late teens, proportionally.
Ye the dwarfs are prints: my chaos have some prints (warriors and spawn), the marauder horse are the new plastics (10 being £33)
The old knights of chaos and archaon are the expensive bits the fine cast goes for £50 approx and metal £90+
The knights would be like £30 for 5 if the new plastics but £50 for those 6th models
Has Jaybay (spelling?) been through the desert on a HORSE WITH NO NAME?
Jebe is his name and now riding through deserts on his nameless horse is his game!
@@BearfootMiniaturesI would expect nothing less. 😊…and now I know how to spell “ Jebe”.
Great battle report, I hope you make more of these. I absolutely do not like how Ranged units work atm. Shooting only form a single ranks seems to make any non volleyfire or skirmisher missile unit quite usless (unless they get multiple shost, the amount fo shots fired with usually just WS 3 is pointles in it's wffect. War machines having no WS4 engineer anymore too. they usually shoot on long range which BS 3 with such a low amount of shots leaves you with nothing. All dedicated missile units should get BS4. They do that and train that and should be better in that than the average close combat line warrior. In the current setup, negating rank bonus by flanking is way too important to sacrifice CQC for lousy shooting. but crossbows and handguns are quite dead atm (except repeater handguns). at leats in my opinion. also hand weapons suck massively too. Unless any kind of troop has special rules to improve them or taking two, they are too unreliable. And reliability especially with low amount of attacks is the only key to beat static combat boni. And Initiative low units suffer massively from the "stepping forward" mechanic.
Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it!
The one rank I can get on board with (coming from 6th up until a month ago you see)
The hand weapons is a give and take i suppose, I mourn the loss of handweapon shield bonus, but the certain armies (like chaos) that get boosts to their handweapons AP (or say reroll 1s to wound for high elves) atleast have something I suppose!
Best dwarf models period
Bro the comment about the Gyros was priceless it made me laugh hard.
Guys, dwarf shooting troops lost the WS of 4. They are WS 3! They became nearly worthless. Rangers is the way to go, especially since they have both WS of 4 and BS of 4 and cost just a tiny bit more.
Thanks for the report, I have been enjoying it and sharpening my axe, of course...
A big change! I think Iain would say he values the Stand and shoot then hitting at WS3 vs just hitting at WS4 but (with my points in the Dwarf army discussion) I think it definately puts pavour towards warriors in my mind than the old every warrior is a quarellor setup
A big change on crews even especially for my army as ive had problems with no character marauder cav taking on crews before becasue they match my WS,
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes. Some people now experiment with a three lines of 20 GW quarrellers - each one behind the other. In my opinion that is a viable tactic only in some very specific circumstances, as there are sufficiently many ways to counter it. I am also more in favor of the warrior setup - shieldwall rule on the warriors is not one to sneer at.
Ye agreed: getting the give ground is so important I think for infantry armies to turn the tables on chargers
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes, we agreed, that those clan dwarfs, who are unable to fight properly, are either given a crossbow/handgun, or are sent to the engineers guild for the artillery crewman carrier...
Great game!
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it!
The 1999 points limit is stupid. Just because it says 0-6 war machines for example, doesn’t mean you have to take 6.
Seems like a stupid house rule for a game that’s only just been released.
It's a left over from 8th edition and it shouldn't be applied to a new game. As you said, everything's already internally balanced so why comp it more?
It’s just something Iain wanted to try out really so why not was my thought (though I don’t think it would’ve effected anything we did here cos we didn’t hit any sort of limit (maybe he would’ve taken another king but I doubt it knowing Iain)
It is made because this stupid game that just got released is so broken and OP and allows spam all over and that is why it simply needs to be restricted a bit. And I do not even mention tournament gaming, which will be ridiculous without proper compositions like it was necessary in all WHF editions ever by the way.
Everyone takes too many shooting units with Dwarfs. They don't do enough damage and every time they get closed on in combat they die to dedicated combat units.
I see too many long drawn out lines with dwarfs. Its such a vulnerable formation because the opponent just rolls through the squishy centers and then turns to envelope the melee infantry. Enemies are getting charges off on turn 2-3. That's 2-3 round of shooting at most, with a frontage of 10 is 20-30 shots, usually hitting on 5's, around 1-12 hits , and maybe 5-7 wounds depending on toughness. Then there's armor saves. At most, 10 shooters are reliable enough to get rid of a small unit of fast cav or other similar chaff.
I wouldn't take large ranged units that I couldn't protect. if you must, take small units of like 5 and disperse them between your larger infantry formations, use them to clear annoying chaff and force the enemy to engage your infantry head on. Pretty sure that's the Dawi playbook moving forward.
I may be off my rocker but if you don't take war machines and just go melee infantry you neutralize the enemy chaff tactics entirely. In my mind ranged is a trap, take a token amount for the psychological effect and the ability to put some pressure at range. With things like marching columns, and the way break tests work now, I wouldn't build a list without at least 3 sizable dwarf infantry blocks.
Gyro's are probably the best thing in the roster, shame to see them used as throwaway chaff in this, you had enough ranged to deal with the horsemen. I agree they could have been much better utilized.
I think Ian was just a bit overconfident with the gyros as he's beaten those units with the combat stat line dwarf pilots a BUNCH of times now
I agree on shooting though, or even just having the shooting units and treating them like skirmishers that are going to flee behind your blocks rather than stand and shoot (as I see them taking the charge to just die a TON)
Most pitiful rolling I have seen
😂😂😂😂😂😂
The gyro tests were mental: every other combat my marauder horse have fought against Iains gyros the gyros have slapped the horse about, and to have it lose I imagine was shocking, he went in so confident
Good battle, though it did maybe seem a bit more One Sided than it should've been. I especially appreciated some good demos of Wheeling with the protractor thing. Marching Column + Drilled seems absurdly strong, i think i am going to wait and see if that is the intention. One thing i've noticed is that Flails never lose their AP according to their entry so i am considering it as a cheap upgrade for Chaos Characters, the 2 hands thing is a non-factor really. However i noticed you didn't play it this way, would be eager to know why as the Chaos Knight Kit comes with a nice Flail i was thinking of using.
Ye i think basically both our dice rolls (remembering back) werent great but iain failing a few LD9 break tests and just breaking (not FBIGO) just massively tipped it tbh
On the flails its because Id just taken the flain info in as you lose both the S and AP (like just losing the full lance), I did play a game yesterday after seeing your comment where my chaos lord used a flail and it performed admirably!
Great Batrep, maybe the Dwarf player invested too much in large blocks when a few more smaller units could have supported each other quite nicely? Enjoyed viewing though! Mark him down in the book of grudges!
ye agreed, i think some more blocks dedicated to combat (and the quarellers having been around as a block at the start) would have really helped, as 2 blocks gave my faster army the ability to pick them off a bit more easily
Nice!
Glad you enjoyed it mate!
Well that's a good report...
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it
Pray tell about the spoon on the wall
Thats my favourite spoon!
Ill set the scene: I was a young(er) heresy player and I decided to go to an event id heard great things about in Sweden
So off I went with an Iron Warriors Armoured company, with nothing but tanks
Over 5 games my army was crushed systematically and I ended the event with double the previous negative score (as the loser got negative points based on points difference) than the previous Low score in Swedish heresy events
Had a great time though!
I love your vibes, both of you. Would enjoy playing with you, one day. I'm probably a way off from you though, on the South Coast.
Thanks mate! Glad you enjoyed it, your welcome up anytime and if not may bump into you around the scene if you go to events!
dwarf shooting seems surprisingly weak ( same in all the dwarf bat reps I’ve seen).
I’m still undecided: I’ve seen them do worse in 6th a bunch of times but if it’s consistent maybe (jury’s out for me still) not really got experience with 8th though so maybe from that!?
If you think 0-6 arty is too much you could just *not* use 6 arty pieces instead of needing to set random restrictions....
Otherwise, good game 👍
True true: I mean Iain used 2 in this battle so it’s not like a restriction was reached there atall, really we were just mentioning something that was little more than off hand comments really (maybe less looking at FB groups before filming a bat rep for us haha)
@@BearfootMiniatures yeah i get you. Also yes, the various Facebook groups are so cancerous and toxic right now...people have waited almost 10 years for this and all they have done is whine, moan and try and break the game...
It is made because this stupid game that just got released is so broken and OP and allows spam all over and that is why it simply needs to be restricted a bit. And I do not even mention tournament gaming, which will be ridiculous without proper compositions like it was necessary in all WHF editions ever by the way.
@@richardpagel6959 aaannnnddd there's the butt hurt bitter vet
Tzeentch's will is fickle.^^
More sacrifices needed I think!
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes, to the Dark Dice Gods.
Shooting seems kind of pointless in this game. War machines do okay but are unreliable and cost a lot of points. Regular shooting starts out poor and becomes almost worthless due to lots of negaitive modifiers that come up quite often (range and movement) and no positives. It's agood in a way as you don't want shooting to be too strong but I feel like it's almost better just to spend those points on good combat units vs crossbows and thunderers that do no damage and then get run down.
As to 1999 points-Yes, you could take 6 cannons, but would that actually be a good idea? How many points is that? Will those cannons kill enough to warrant the 600+ points worth of infantry blocks you could have had instead? Or will the enemy army just take a beating for a couple of turns and then run you down because you don't have enough troops? Time will tell I suppose.
Looks like fun overall, though I'm sad about the loss of step up and the loss of additional ranks getting to fight. I liked the way ordinary troops actually mattered in 8th ed vs other editions (including this one) where it often comes down to characters and maybe the unit champion actually getting to strike. Initiative mattering is a good thing I suppose. I'll have to give it a go and see how it feels, I guess :)
100% right: we probably shouldn’t have mentioned it as it was basically off hand comments as neither of us were effected by it (I mean I didn’t have arty and wouldn’t have been able to afford another chaos lord, and Iain only took 2 cannons!)
Why take bad and stupid dwarf cannons when you can have grudge throwers? With grudge throwers it is much easier to shoot down single models AND regiments and they are even a bit cheaper and they even have indirect fire. Cannons are probably, next to flame cannons, the worst artillery choices dwarfs have.
Sadly the game will be herohammer when playing against competitive people... they could have simply solved that in really pushing ordinary troops simply by increasing rank bonus over all, especially for RnF infantry units. But no, instead they even shrink it down to 2 for the average unit and make most artillery pieces weaker against single models/cowboys... what a bad joke from GW, made to make money via selling tons of single models, especially new cowboys on big mount models I suppose will be released in the future here and there.
Nice report, LOVE seeing Dorfs lose
You and me both mate!
красивые армии ребята ✊ лайк)
Thanks mate! Glad you liked them!
old world!
You king would flee on any fail due to enemy outnumbering I believe
Oooh I can’t remember the exact numbers right now but potentially; I think I may have been off by like one model (I seem to remember me and Iain talking about it and came down to I was double not over double or something like that)
tbf you picked the unit strength double issue later in the video. Good video we are all learning
@@BearfootMiniatures
Let’s get a grimdark Bret army in there.
I recommend watching The Last Duel to get the proper vibes for such project!
Im doing a slow grow of brets so expect prob monthly bret content bat rep style and painting vids (and ill be talking about them in the friday Hobby casts, with Lil Legend, alot I imagine!)
Grimdarkness is going to come in the form of it being a peasant and foot knight dominant army based on pre camalot, Saxon/norman proto knights and then the horse mounted exaggerated Chivalric knights (which ill dirty up to get a more grounded tone after making them all vibrant)
That the plan anyway!
@robertchmielecki2580 Ive not actually watched it yet: imagine youd recommend then?
@@BearfootMiniatures Yup, great cinematography and acting, interesting story and complex characters. All with grimdark medieval France in the background.
@@BearfootMiniatures I always wished the Duke/Baron had not been on a Pegasus. It’s just too much, it’s hard to pull off a believable grim scheme with giant Pegasus and unicorns.
😎
You seriously play with that reserve rule? This is such a stupid rule that every tournament should forbid and even in private I would never use. It simply is entire battle plan destroying. Especially with slow dwarfs or shooting units like artillery or crossbow/handgun wielding models... utter nonsense for real!
Ye man it was day after release and a core of that scenerio: and we weren’t playing a tournament was our logic or the lists would’ve been massively different aswell!
Sry bud the chaos army looks shit and not like a chaosarmy😢
was gonna watch but chaos mini's too ugly
That’s a shame to hear! there is a patreon link where you can help me work full time on making a new army for your viewing pleasure
@@BearfootMiniatures
I actually like the highland mini ones. Look more chaos and northern wastes.
This is insufferable to watch. The chaos player just constantly whining about roles. Your a grown man lol
I think you may have misinterpreted the humour mate, we both rolled below avg id say in this game and Iain certainly worse (to which my sarcasm implying that the worse look 'always happened to me', I mean iain failed 2 ld9 tests and a ld10 test and just broke)
@@BearfootMiniatures each to their own but I wouldn’t like to play you or find your video enjoyable to watch. Just some feedback from a potential subscriber that’s all. You can tell you were heavily invested in the game and each time you rolled bad you made sure to bring it up rather than slide by. I mean humour is supposed to make you laugh not make you stop watching the video.