It’s sad that in this day and age, writers are so scared to write feminine characters as… well, feminine. You’ll see it happen so frequently where characters personalities will be heavily altered or entirely changed because feminine = bad to so many modern writers.
I have no stake in Amy but I'm so glad you mentioned Silver, as I am a little tired of him being a softboy when his original storyline in 06 was that he was basically the terminator. Yes he's a hedgehog with feelings and more expressive than Shadow, but he's still someone always carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders in a way Sonic and Shadow don't
His theme song doesn't exactly help your argument, but I see what you're saying. He came off as naive and curious since he didn't socially develop or experience things like a normal person would, but I never considered him "soft."
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT Silver's fanon/IDW interpretation goes back to the Eng localizations. Blaze said in 06's Eng script that Silver is insecure when he's alone and combined with Quenton Flynn's voice acting that pretty much made Fanon/IDW Silver a thing.
One of the things I hate the most about social media is the fact that it has blurred the lines between authors and public to the point where artists have become codependent with their own audience. I think that's the root problem with IDW: They care more about likes and retweets rather than making an exciting and compelling story.
*cough cough* metal Virus is the best story ever and should be a game *cough cough* so many other sonic medias also go for that like with Archie or especially the recent sonic games
@@Doxthefox metal virus is overrated and needlessly edgey. It's literally the same shit that I bet most people that criticized the "dark" era about. Not to mention that tbe whole thing is Sonic's fucking fault and it's never addressed.
I am always scared to hear people’s opinions on one of my favorite characters (they are usually terribly misunderstanding of her) but this hit every single issue I have w Amy’s characterization over the years… u even included her Japanese dialogue at points which was such a pleasant surprise!! thank u so much for taking the time to make this video it makes me feel better to know there are people out there who see and understand her outside of the lens of the last 10 years of questionable Sonic media
One thing that drives me crazy is watching people take Amy’s actions or words out of context. Heroes is one of the best examples, with people thinking Amy is trying to… dare I say… force Sonic to marry her by beating him up. You can see that she’s playing around if you listen to dialogue within the boss, she just wants to help her friends and it was a misunderstanding.
@ no bc these old men literally read her dialogue w ZEROOOO nuance it’s so frustrating like yes she’s a little ridiculous but that’s just her personality? she’s not dangerously violent or abusive please be serious that is a teenage girl
I was so worried I wouldn't like this video but all these points were incredibly valid! There were some new points I didn't even consider until now but since it's been brought to my attention, I can't stop thinking about it.
I'm sick of the girlboss-ification of modern female characters. It's like companies are afraid their audience is afraid of seeing a woman act vulnerable or expressing romantic feelings for a guy who doesn't always reciprocate, like it would somehow portray her as weak when her schtick has always been that she's obsessed with Sonic. It's like the gaming industry is overcorrecting after Metroid Other M was slammed by critics
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game). The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game). The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
You had me up until you used Other M as an example. You can't even use Amy as an example to be honest considering her character shift has been gradual.
Honestly I knew that a lot of English translation just didn’t truly fit with the Japanese portrayal. I did not know there was more behind the scenes that cause the misrepresentation. And all the hate towards Sega made it hard to know what was true or not. I’m glad and happy you put this essay so perfectly together. Showing scenes and clips from Ian and the games, as well as the IDW. I feel much more informed now.
Amy is the closest thing to a "normal person" in the Sonic world when you think about it. Just a girl who Isn't superpowered but tries to do the right thing regardless. I really like those kinds of characters.
>Super strength, speed, reflexes, durability, can magically summon a destructive hammer and weaponizd cards >Has been a stalker with anger issues who claimed to be someones girlfriend against their will for ages >"CoMpLeTeLy NoRmAl." Like, bro. You're playing the wrong series. She was never meant to be nornal. You're projecting a completely different archetype for no reason.
I wouldn't say "normal" in terms of superpowers because she has to have crazy strength and speed to not only carry a hammer but to be able to keep up with Sonic at least for a while.
Wanted to break this comment down like how you masterfully broke this video down. But first of all, THANK YOU for tackling this! As a female Sonic fan, seeing Amy's femininity and crush on Sonic getting progressively shoved out of the picture further and further bothers me a lot. I LIKE seeing girls who can be feminine along with girls who might not be as much. But now to kind of go point by point on some parts of the video: - I remember reading somewhere that Amy's crush on Sonic is always supposed to be out of reach and not be a real relationship. It really bugs me that Ian is reading Amy's crush as "Will they won't they" when a full relationship was never the intention; it flew right over his head. Especially because there's times where Amy talks about Sonic simply because she puts a lot of faith in him (Like in Unleashed where she tells Professor Pickle that Sonic won't let the world end, or how if the world was against Sonic, she'd choose to stand with him). - I'm glad you point out the times where Amy wasn't the damsel in distress. She's had a LOT of times where she wasn't, and if Ian paid attention to the games, he'd find so many examples of that: Saving Birdie, leading Team Rose to find Froggy and Chocola, saving Sonic on Prison Island, saving Elise by ACCIDENT, being chased by Storm at first and then getting so pissed off that she got separated from Sonic that she scared Storm shitless, etc. Ian's writing reeks of "I'm fixing this character and she's better because of ME!" - THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP SILVER. HOLY SHIT THAT'S BEEN A PET PEEVE OF MINE, since he's probably my favorite Sonic character. Silver used to be hardcore and confident while still being compassionate (the part in Sonic 06 where he watches Elise, a little girl, lose her father and being forced to carry a horrible burden like he was, and how he gently gives her the Chaos Emerald and tells her it's a lucky charm because Heaven knows she'll need it), now he's just a weird marshmallow with no edge to his character. - Can we address the fact that Evan Stanley is like "Ew no, SilvAze is ickyyyyy... but I'd rather ship a sixteen year old (Espio) with a twenty year old (Vector)" (based on their ages from the Sonic Heroes manual). This gives me massive Ken Penders "I wanted to make Sally lose her virginity to a 20 year old" vibes; I get that it's fiction and it's not real, but the fact that she wants to make it canon is gross. - Gotta be honest, I find it funny how people are saying "Oh, now the anti-woke grifters found Sonic now that it's become popular!" Naw. Lots of people were already Sonic fans, and got shit on hard by people in the mid to late 2010's for liking Sonic due to the way SEGA of America was trying to stay relevant by pairing with people who hated Sonic. The "popular, in-thing" trend was to make fun of Sonic fans, but that mentality took a hard stop when the first Sonic movie came out and was actually good, then all these discourse-addled weirdos started popping up in the fandom (a lot of them minors who just don't know how to conduct themselves). Lots of us who are fans, who hate seeing the cute girly characters being described as essentially weak or unimportant, or who hate seeing the games and stories being stripped and boiled down to shitty shipping discourse, or who just hate seeing things being unnecessarily changed in general, had the space invaded by people trying to pretend like they were always fans.
Literally, if you make a chronology of Sonic's history, telling all the data you could have about the time of your world, you will notice that most of the characters are in their adulthood (except Tails, Cream and Charmy) 1. little planet appers once in a year, and it a appers a total of 3 times 2. Sonic has a birthday, amy has a birthday. 3. there halloween, christmas and new years celebrations (thanks tailstube and sonic channel) 4. there are seasons, and sonic forces there is a explicit time skip of about 6 months (in both versions, i don't your "is actually 6 weeks in the ja"6 MONTHS) If one makes the chronology, at least, it takes about 6 or 7 years from the beginning of the games to the last part of the franchise currently (Tailstube and the new year) so what is all this even needed?for nothing i just wanted to put out a timeline
Man, I hope they don't mess up Amy in Sonic movie 4. They haven't let me down yet, but that's the character I'm most concerned about them adapting. What with how Hollywood absolutely sucks at writing female characters in this weird modern era.
@@johngonzalez2495 movie Amy rose saves Sonic from metal sonic and movie sonic makes heart eyes at her, they definitely are going with the bad ass Amy rose version
The irony of Ian's comments on Rouge is that as a girl I always thought that Rouge looked cool and wanted to play Sonic Adventure 2 because I wanted to play as her. I wasn't bother over her having big boobs or cleavage. I think people don't understand that women also like sexy women becauss they're asethetically pleasing or as a power fantasy.
i wish i could engrave this video into every sonic fan's brain. i rarely comment on youtube at all but this is the best sonic/amy character analysis ever. im so tired of the strong independent cool girlboss archetype making its way into every modern female character ever and this is why im soooo scared for sonic 3. growing up being "not like other girls" because being feminine was inherently weak and uncool, characters like amy are super important. its so disheartening to see her writing get worse and worse because of some dude who just doesnt get her at all. i dont get amy haters and i dont get sonamy haters and i dont get why people are so against mutual pining with no resolve. they dont need one. thats the point of their entire dynamic. also, her hammer is ten times cooler than mystical tarot card reading. shes said to be able to rival knuckles in strenght, so i dont get why she cant be a cute girl who can beat people up with her giant cutesie hammer. pleaseeeeeeee somebody get this guy away from amy
@OmarAlikaj it would be Ian I'm referring to. Only a sexist thinks that a female character being "typically" feminine is inferior to "Girl Boss" ass kicker.
This. Ian Flynn and the other writers at IDW have an issue not with Amy per se, but the concept of femininity. Because they hate femininity, they feel the need to rewrite Amy without those qualities - despite that being baked into the core of her character. I would say many western Sonic fans also feel uncomfortable with feminine characters, as the hatred for Amy exists since the 2000's. I think this is why many Sonic fans prefer a more stoic female character, like Blaze, over Am, who is blatantly girly.
27:20 When Ian was asked about Silver being rude in Japanese he said that Silver "doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchise". I know he wrote him being polite in Archie but Ian seems to think that game Silver has NEVER been rude which is insane if you've ever even looked at the Rivals games or Sonic Colors DS.
@@solomonm.840 Silver is explicitly more rude than other characters in the Rivals games and other characters call him out on it all the time. Everyone does petty things so races can happen in Rivals but Silver has almost the same personality as Surge the Tenrec with how he talks and insults people. Silver's rude attitude is in his dialogue for every game he's in except the English dub of Team Sonic Racing. Even Sonic Speed Simulator has it. There's also Silver's Japanese pronouns and mannerisms like how he uses Ore and Anta instead of polite words like Boku and Kimi.
Ian is clearly mistaking being nice and polite. Silver is a very nice person clearly, but bro is more rude than Sonic and the whole point of Sonic IS being too cool for politeness.
This just goes to prove that Ian (among other certain people in the fandom) never really understood Amy's character at all, and the attempts to "improve her" only takes away from her personality and comes off worse.
35:50 "Cream is like 6 years old". Yes Ian, and you are a 42 year old WRITER. It is litteraly your JOB to write these characters, NO MATTER WHAT AGES OR PERSONALITY THEY HAVE. Just because YOU don't like the character or think they are boring, doesn't mean you are free to just completely ignore them or write them in a way that only suits YOU AND NOBODY ELSE. An actual GOOD writer would know that characters like Cream have so much potential for unique and interesting stories. And while we are on the topic, I kinda hate that whenever people see a child character act like a... well a child, as in being up everyone's noses or just kinda being annoying sometimes, it is ALWAYS seen as bad thing. Looking at you Charmy and Marine haters. (P.S. Sorry for bad English)
@Cisaaro It IS bad writing, since being 6 didn't stop Cream from being an active player in Heroes, Battle and Advance Games. In those games she was actively annihilating Eggmans robots AND was helping Sonic and crew save the world.
@МишаСав-ц9ь that doesn't mean she should show up most of the time, ian said "doesn't show up much" not "she should never be an active player" No in short Flynn isn't a bad writer lol
@Cisaaro "Cream is like a six-year old who isn't SUPPOSED TO get involved" And yet she did get involved! Because the entire point of her character is that ANYONE can be a hero no matter what age. The fact that Ian says that shows that he does not, in fact, understand the characters that he IS WRITING FOR. Thus making him a bad writer. lol
@МишаСав-ц9ь him disagreeing with you doesn't make him a bad writer Sure cream is supposed to show that anyone can be a hero but it'd be bad to have sonic be cool with a 6 year old risking her life fighting eggman, but he is still writing cream he just doesn't write her saving the world, we don't send kids to war because "anyone can be a hero" You can have her be an active character without having her fight eggman unless she was forced into the situation Same goes for sonic x in sonic x cream is mostly doing safe shit unless she's forced into a dangerous situation so were the sonic x writers bad too Even sonic heroes she initially just wanted her chao back she just accidentally got in a situation where she fought neo metal sonic where she initially just wanted her chao But no it isn't bad writing to not have sonic bring a 6 year old to a war zone
That last part about the fandom's defensiveness over the IDW writers is accurate and part of a more significant problem. For a long time, the fandom has had a lot of animosity towards Sega for many reasons. Be it because of their direction, the writing or gameplay, the casting of particular actors, or meddling in projects leading to problems, you name it. It's always seen as an attack towards them, leading to a subsection of the fandom harboring deep resentment towards the company as a whole. So, when you have people like the IDW staff, Tyson Hesse, and Tee Lopes, who started as fans and are now living the dream, you bet they will defend them. Because they started out as us, the fans don't see them as part of a faceless corporation. They have people they can relate to and project whatever insecurities or headcanons they have onto them. I remember witnessing this on a Reddit thread talking about Lanolin the Sheep. This character has been a polarizing subject since the comics debuted her as part of the main cast. Her negative attitude and tendency to jump to conclusions caused a large section of fans to find her unlikeable. Of course, many disagreed, but the number one defense they used was at Sega's expense, in which she doesn't abide by those pesky mandates because she's an OC. Therefore, she's written as more "human" and isn't supposed to be nice to the heroes and kiss their a**es like Sega would want them to. Never mind that these are meant to be flaws that the character is supposed to overcome. No, no, it's the writers sticking it to Sega because they're writing something different, therefore making it good. Now listen, regardless of what you think of that character, the takeaway from this is that it's very telling how fans hold IDW staff in ridiculously high regard. They've framed the playing field as this "us vs. them" diatribe over years of harbored resentment that's starting to get out of hand. I don't even need to explain how these writers aren't automatically better than Sega because they don't want to follow a mandate. They're not perfect, and they can make mistakes too. Ultimately, it's important to step back and recognize that idolizing one side while demonizing the other doesn't do anyone any good. Constructive criticism and balanced discussions are how we foster growth, not blind loyalty or antagonism. Whether it's Sega or the IDW staff, both are capable of creating something great and stumbling along the way. Fans would benefit more from embracing nuance instead of clinging to this divisive "us vs. them" mindset. After all, this franchise is supposed to bring us joy, not division.
100 percent agreed. Every time someone criticizes Ian or Evan people gaslight them and say theyre being unreasonable or "crazy haters" and will never listen to actual points people are making about the writing. I myself loathed the Misadventures arc with Lanolin/Silver/Mimic, it was a disaster and seemingly brought back the idiotic Archie era melodrama everyone was glad to be away from, but now suddenly people are all for it again to defend Stanley/Flynn. And hey, I'll be the first to say I actually do think theyre good writers, but they have _flaws_ in their writing and goals with the characters, and they either refuse to address them or the toxic positivity of their fans double down on it. I can recognize when they do good but will also point out when they do poorly. How can we make the content even better without negative feedback? You can't. It's also nothing personal or at least it _shouldn't_ be. I never made it personal when i complained about a specific story, but others did when fans started dunking on me and others for not liking everything.
@@ORLY911 I remember a lot of folks loosing it over Shadow getting knocked down a peg by the metal virus saga, but frankly it was nice to see him get his ego put in check. Plus I do find the way a lot of people justify Ian's writing is by saying, "At least its not Ken Penders".
@Cowboycomando54 I think peoples problem is Shadow having that ego to begin with. Shadow has an ego but its not born of pride but one of doing things his own way, he isn't Vegeta. People expected someone like Shadow to have more tact after all he's been through, a characterization demonstrated in 06 and Archie. Ken Penders had a lot of problems, but its also worth noting he did give us some good stories too and his art actually wasnt bad in some issues (a shame he regressed a lot since then). Penders was only one leg of the drama in Archie Sonic. He wasn't even responsible for the "slap" scene.
@ For me it is the issue of Shadow constantly calling him self the "ultimate lifeform" even though he will always loose to Sonic, and he knows that he can't beat Sonic. As for Penders, I did enjoy his exploration into darker themes and plots, but he crossed a line line with what he tried to do with Geoffrey and Sally (the skunk was an adult and she was a minor). I also had to roll my eyes at his anti gun propaganda through out the series.
I think there are some justified critiques of Ian and IDW, but at the same time a decent amount of times, you see people who complain about the writing doing it with bad faith. So I see why we may sometimes raise them to too high of a pedestal, but either way, things do seem to be looking up.
@@platanoluverhell nah. Amy been an inconsistent character since the 2000’s. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow don’t compare. And don’t bring up any adaptation of them outside the games or IDW comics cuz they don’t count
Your comparison that if Sonic is the wind, then Amy is the breeze that follows was genius. The way I've seen them since the beginning, they both love the game they play with each other. Amy loves the chase and Sonic loves being chased. An overall excellent video, and though you only seemed to touch on it slightly, i am curious of what you think of Sonic Boom's version of Amy
I find the line about being a damsel in distress hilarious considering that in Frontiers she IS a damsel in distress. At that very moment, stuck halfway in cyberspace.
When people call Amy just female Sonic, I think that's the highest compliment you can give. Every other character is inspired by Sonic to go through a character arc and change themselves. Amy is the only one, other than Sonic himself, that acts as a catalyst to change others. But does it in her own way. She herself like Sonic is relatively static. I'd argue her only real change is Sonic awakening her inciting incident to be that catalyst counter part to him.
Woah, I never realized that she changes characters just like Sonic. Sonic Team had such a strong vision for these characters back then, man. One would think that every fan would appreciate that vision as an adult, but no. They still hold on to that childish, unempathetic hatred of Amy Rose.
Well she was designed as his female counterpart. From her Classic design being his if he was a girl and it continues to her modern design, just being a little more subtle about it. But yeah. She does change others and Sonic began doing it too, especially in more recent years. Though her character is inconsistent.
amy IS basically just female sonic; which is why i think it's okay to sort of girlboss her. just don't emphasize the girl too much (though it's inevitable, all media wants to show girl power, and sonic will do it regardless) and it's... basically amy
43:08 THANK YOU Sonic is NOT a superhero type of character, he’s just a guy who loves adventure and has a warm heart He doesn’t follow the authority of society or those around him and he doesn’t actively try to preach to ppl about they’re wrong doing and why they need to change, he just lives life his own way and does what he thinks is right He puts an end to Eggman’s plans because he has fun doing it and it restricts his freedom
Sonic is a brand, and by extension he's whatever Sega wants him to be, if Sega wants him to be a superhero character, he will be a superhero character, whether we like it or not we are owed to nothing and shouldn't act like it
@@cannonbyrd1755 Even Mario has a particular personality Nintendo wants him to stick to whether it be the standard non story centric games or the RPG games. Sonic is the same way and his Japanese voice actor has always portrayed sonic in a particular free spirited nature. This was emphasized in all Japanese sonic media up to Black Knight. Black Knight is still considered some of people's favorite writing for Sonic
Agreed, he is a roguish hero, not a boyscout. I assume you were also annoyed at his lectures at Surge and his weird sudden copification with Clutch in 75 wanting to "turn him in" and make him apologize, and then feel bad he was taken away by Eggman? Sonic he literally just tried to murder a whole city after being caught for fraud, kidnapping, coercion, theft, racketeering, and all the other lovely mob related crimes presumably on the thumb drive the Chaotix found. Give me a break.
@@cannonbyrd1755 yeah no. Sonic in the games is depicted for the most part how the first comment described him. Sonic even if his personality is altered or taken in a different direction will always keep certain core traits. His arrogance, love for adventure, and his free spirited nature. These are all traits that mostly remain consistent amongst Sonic in different adaptations too
I love how the core sonic friend group's (tails, knuckles, amy) character isn't defined by their relationship to sonic, but rather informed by it. Tails much like amy is inspired by the guy, he looks up to him and admires him so heavily he sometimes loses track of his own capabilities. but you know who doesn't? sonic. sonic is well aware that tails is incredibly capable and dependable, and is willing to put his faith in him at the drop of a hat " slot this fake emerald in to stop the cannon? you got it!" knuckles is rigid, he's bound by his duty to the master emerald, and because of this he contrasts and clashes with sonic's free spirit from time to time, but they both obviously have respect for each other even if they don't always see eye to eye and are willing to take jabs. sonic's core friends like sonic for a lot of the reasons fans come to like him, and as such that makes them relatable, just like how sonic likes them for equally relatable reasons in turn. it makes them reasonably come off as actual friends... or at least it did, and I miss it.
36:09 i would like to point out that Tangle share many traits with Amy, she is energetic, optimistic, silly, brave, impulsive, adventurous and was also inspired by Sonic to be stronger (but without any romantic aspects), the biggest differences is that Tangle is less emotional mature and way more tomboyish, so Flynn essentially created a character very like Amy but without the traditionally feminine parts, it says a lot about him Anyway great video, finally someone who understands Amy
Probably why I think Tangle wasn't necessary and don't like her too much. She only exists for Whisper. Whisper was ok until they made her all about Tangle, which ironically they were trying to avoid with Sonamy. We also already have a character with tail powers?! His name is Tails! Maybe different, but still. Also they way they ruined Silver for haha Whisper fanboy. I was so annoyed by people saying the issue with Whisper having a breakdown over Tangle getting the metal virus in an anticlimactic moment added for drama was so emotional they cried and completely ignored the issue where Cream called Amy her hero while Amy was struggling to be brave (one of the few good Amy moments) and how most of the Chaotix got the metal virus. Like, Whisper and Tangle's story wasn't really that tragic. It was over-dramafied after they spent ONE DAY OF ADVENTURE together. Personally the weakest during the Metal Virus arc for me, even worse than the Shadow one. Anyways, the Chaotix are family. And Amy and Cream are like sisters. Their moments were sadder, hands down. When I tried saying this to a friend at the time, teasing that I didn't cry over Tangle and Whisper after being told I would 500 times, that person responded annoyed.
@captkate-yz8kd genuinely Amy feel a lot less lively, because now Tangle is filling her role it sucks, Tangle also sucks as a character because all she does is being a watered down version of Amy and actually purely exist for ship bait, given how she is straight always glued to Whisper, Amy who is accused of just being a shipbait is never all the time glued with Sonic in other hand
@@Pikasurfing1 Exactly. If he wanted more Amy moments, have her spend time with Cream. And I think Tangle should've been scrapped. Whisper could work, but she'd need some writing improvement. Also Tangle's design is so bland. Like girl what is that outfit?! At least Whisper has a cool design. And Ian hates Amy's design?! Sure she could work with a slightly different design (not necessary), but something like a cute ponytail with a ribbon that resembles a heart or a nice sash, maybe a dress with frills (I would like this as an alternate outfit!), but not that ugly dull Boom design (Boom had really dull colors imo. Sonic Prime did colors better, even if the characterization was a little off sometimes.) Tangle adds nothing new either. We have a speedster who loves freedom, a flying two-tailed fox inventor, a strong big fist guardian, a sweet adventurous girl with a bigger hammer, etc. Then we have Tangle that borrows aspects from everyone else (living in a little boring village and wants adventure? Amy's first cutscene in SA1 is very similar), using tail to fight (Tails has used his tails before to hit I believe. Either way, his defining aspect is his tail), admiring Sonic's adventurous spirit that inspires her (a lot of characters, mainly Amy and Tails), being attached to someone's hip... Do I need to go on?
@@captkate-yz8kd Tangle's tangle ability was originally suposed to belong to Infinite, but since it was discarded during sonic forces development, they gave it to her, if you ask me, he would have done a far better use with it than her.
@Raincloud5137 That's actually pretty interesting. They could've done a lot with Infinite's ability to create illusions though more than that to the fact it wouldn't be necessary. Imagine him sending someone into their worst nightmare. Instead we get "oh no we're trapped in a weird empty void space... DOUBBBBBLLLLLLE..... BOOST!TOGETHERWECAN SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WE CAN DO-"
good video and thanks for bringing up the point the IDW staff/ writers head cannon based writing I find it odd that they don't like non butt kicking girls for being girly yet make only make butt kicking girls that can be girly only when they like other girls. As well as damping down characters like (Silver) into one note versions of themselves. But man seeing that actively force some nonsense in or outright ignore character defining cannon just because they don't like is just ridiculous.
I feel like Ian wants to turn Amy into that stereotypical badass to rival sonic when that’s never been her. He’s looking for blaze and while she’s definitely more than just “Sonic’s rival” the badass mystical ability using foil for sonic is blaze the cat not Amy rose.
This video is pretty much everything that triggers those nu-Sonic fans you see all over twitter lol. I'm sure there will be tweets shit talking this video with over 60K likes. But I'm with you. I miss Amy acting like Amy.
It's definitely some food for thought. It really seems that modern writers have a very shallow idea on what makes a character powerful, where Amy being able to completely shift the tides of several conflicts through her high emotional intelligence and got both sides to feel empathy for each other, and the courage to tag along and adventure alongside Sonic and friends even if she doesn't have any comparable power. But nah that's girly crap, she needs a literal magic superpower that lets her be physically as strong as everyone else because, of course, what does your talk-no-jutsu mean if you can't also punch a hole in their chest if it doesn't work? Not everyone needs to be a combatant in order to be "strong" character.
As much as I wanted Sega to not *exaggerate* her crush on Sonic to the point of it being a part of her personality (Hello, Sonic Free Riders) this is another extreme to how she was written. Amy’s overall character theme is about love and passion. She obviously loves Sonic, he is her hero and she has a crush on him and wants to surpass him in terms of fighting and wants to go on her own crazy adventures without repeating her mistakes from Sonic CD. Her crushing on Sonic wasn’t the problem, it was times where that aspect of her character was Flanderized like in Free Riders as well as awkward localization changes that just don’t work.
Sonic Heroes was fine. She was just joking and not being serious about and immediately in the fight she asked Sonic if he knew where Froggy and Cheese's brother was and after that she didn't bother Sonic only AFTER they found their friends and saw Sonic in the distance to go after him. It's playful. Sonic Free Riders... I... didn't fully play because the controls were the WORST!
There is a definitely a case of the modern trend of rejecting traditionally feminine characters. Ironically the push of feminism is the embrace of masculinity when characters are concerned. Amy being girly was never the problem, you don’t to need to remove her that to improve her, because it’s a core part of her character. Instead it would be better to add an additional element, build her character out instead of removing the foundation and starting again.
I'd rather her be the fixated girlfriend than what we have. It can at least be cute and enduring and not insufferable and never something we've seen from her.
@@DMAN99 She already had more to her though. Even when concerned about Sonic when not around him, she wanted to best him in some way to be noticed, yet simultaneously had that same level of concern for others even if not romantic. The characters have never been presented that deep and sufficient. The problem is trying to probe beyond that and create scenarios that aren't the vibe the series intended. I think spinoffs are fine for that, because then the characterization one way may end up taking over.
This is a franchise targeted to children, Sonic and Amy's dynamic is mostly played for laughs. It's also true that Sonic dislikes sadness, so if chasing him will make Amy happy then Sonic will (sometimes reluctantly) oblige.
Sonic was never targeted at children, but teens and the edgy. Look back at who he was advertised for in the 90s and the ads he appeared in. They have been trying to kiddify him and to a degree he could appeal to that, yet the edge was always there.
Sonic was always for teens. SEGA has always tried to portray the Sonic series as being for teens while (in their own words) Mario was for kids. Much of the style of Sonic is focused on that specific aspect. It's pretty apparent in the early 3D games like SA1 and SA2. It's also shown in the music typically being rock/rap that wasnt explicit and generally more positive in their message.
@blumiu2426 Sonic has been historically targeted to the same demographic group as Super Mario in Japan, which is children. The slight change in target demographics in the West was a consequence of "localization", and you could make the argument that Sega of America and Sega of Europe had a better idea seeing how the IP is a lot more successful there than in Japan. They tried doing a balancing act with Sonic Adventure, where the general presentation is targeted to teenagers while the writing and humor are targeted to children, then they leaned more on the teenager side with Sonic Adventure 2, but then they undid it with Heroes, then went back with Shadow and 2006, then went back... it's truly very inconsistent.
@@ChaosAngelZero most 3D Sonic games are E10+, which is moreso leaning onto the teen/preteen range. Here in Europe, some sonic games like 06, black knight, rush adventure, and shadow the hedgehog were given full blown pegi 12 rating. So I'd say Sonic definitely leans more towards preteens/early teen crowd, which are still children mind you...just not 3-6 year olds.
One youtuber who goes by the name pariah once said that sonic is not spiderman and amy is not nick fury in regards to ian flynn's writing. He nailed it on the spot
''The Sonic fandom cares a hell of a lot more about the fandom part than the actual content'' This is exactly what has made me tune out from the online discourse, the series has been stuck in stagnating limbo for nearly two decades and the fanbase is only keeping alive a caricature of it built on headcanons, fanfics, fandubs (Snapcube did irreparable damage to this franchise) and other outside sources. Sonic now feels like a meme entity rather than a true character, where people will spend more time uttering references to that one funny video they saw to show they're hip than ever enjoying the actual content the series provide. How many times have I heard people talk about Shadow Gens (an actual good game for once, I'll give Sega that) compared to the number of people talking about Shadow's love for latinas? Or that one time I was having an actual discussion about Shadow 05 only to have someone interrupt it with a ''Hey Shadow it's me the devil'' and I get made the bad guy for calling out how unnecessary that is (''we're just having fun'' they'll say every time)? A joke is the only way I can describe the fandom, in all senses of the term. Nothing is serious yet it is the most serious thing in their lives, for any form of pushback is a threat to their existence. You nailed it perfectly, this series is just a brand now. Nothing more. Also wow, I haven't checked IDW in years but I had no idea the western lack of professionalism had settled there too. Can't say that helps the fans when the official people are also unhinged and validates their worldview.
@@MegaGlassguy At least I’m not alone in being tired of all of the dumb Snapcube references. It’s been so overdone and overused, it’s just annoying now and they’re not funny anymore. I’m not someone who’s big on Snapcube’s style of humor and I just find it to be quirky, trendy, Gen Z cringe humor and whatnot now. You can’t go a second without this fanbase quoting Snapcube or some other dumb trendy, quirky quote.
Something similar happens with JoJo's Bizzare Adventure. You have the surface level "IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE?!?!?!?!" type of fans, and the people who go more in depth and have some semblance of mental stability. Very common occurrence in many fandoms.
I always get annoyed at Snapcube references Also one time Snapcube tried to cause political controversy just because Tom Wachowski is a policeman in the Sonic movie which she tried framing it as “supporting police brutality” when Tom being part of the police is just a part of his character
@@TheKing-uu7jn Funny you mention that, cuz I sometime see a lot of Sonic fans on Twitter just being really mad or skeptical at the fact that Tom’s a cops who Sonic likes (or simply not portrayed in a bad light, in the movies For some reasons Even tho, I feel like apart from the first movie, it’s not even like a defining part of his character (could be wrong, being a long time since I saw Sonic Movie 1 and 2)
Well, I don't I need to dig around for evidence and explanations anymore because this video sums it up beautifully and neutrally. This video will be my main argument for my friends from here on out until everything goes back to normal. We are nostalgic for a reason. Don't forget that fact of life.
Thank you so much for making this. I can't think of a fancy way to express my gratitude, just thank you. I love this franchise and it's always upsetting seeing the current direction and especially the fandom view on it, misunderstanding everything about it yet always arguing. I hope more people will see those issues one day.
Me too!!! I thought I was the only one who didn't like the way all the characters were portrayed, not only in Frontiers, but in IDW as well (not to mention the twitter take overs, they make me cringe). I really miss the good old days when Sonic used to be so cool and well written
@@Kikiwiii Frontiers was not an "improvement". The characters are still written poorly. The Meta Era isn't over no matter how people delude themselves.
@@Nighterac The game sold people on a promise that they'd be better next time, and nothing more. The DLC completely contradicting that is both hilarious and sad.
@@Nighterac the meta era never existed, it was just a illusion, there are four eras, the classic era, the adventure era, the modern era, and the freedom era (we are currently in this era)
Ians "mandates" only exist because sega doesnt want him to write the characters ooc again like he did with archie (achie shadow is just as ooc as idw shadow just in the opposite direction) but now flynn is just enforcing traits of archie characters onto actual game characters. Ian doesnt even follow mandates as is
it's crazy when you say sega doesn't want ian write the characters out of character then they proceed to let him write shadow like an idiot during the metal virus just to be taken out from the arc i know for a fact it's ian's fault for that scene to even happen but it's also sega's fault for letting this even happen and slide! like you gotta question sega's quality control that why did they let this happen? which to me it means the quality control ain't perfect too.
I swear it feels like these days people who are Sonic fans are so dismissive of criticism just because the writings "Better then the Meta Era". It's also just really ironic that so many people are so dismissive these days with replies like "Who Cares", when just a few games ago they were also the ones whining about the writing being so bad. The Tribalism and passes for Ian just because "He's one of the fans" is crazy.
It's stereotypical sonic fan behavior. Your so use do getting crap for so long that when you finally get something that's decent to good its like it's the second coming of Christ. Then if someone comes along with any form of criticism like "hey this game was pretty good, but I think "X" could use a little work and "y" could be better" and they'll come and eat you alove because you should shut up and be grateful. How do you expect the series to get better when your just content with "okay" and discredit criticism that will make it great. The sonic fans who do this thinks they're real sonic fans fighting for the franchise they love, but it's actually the opposite your keeping down the franchise you love and those who are giving constructive criticism care for the franchise more than you because they want it to be better and believe it can be better
The fear of corporate relapse can drive a fandom to madness, ESPECIALLY if it’s the Sonic fandom. “I don’t think Ian Flynn’s a good writer.” “What, so you want to go back to the wacky and apathetic adventures of Baldy McNosehair? Because that’s what Sega’s gonna do if you don’t keep your mouth shut!”
It's like it's a personal attack somehow when they don't fucking know him and his basis isn't even the games, it's archie?? Fucking maddening. I admit Ian's rise is inspiring but he doesn't fit the franchise
Criticism is fine but we also gotta address the people who disregard any improvements or attempts made by recent games whether it’s writing or the story and just complain endlessly
I just finished watching the video... I knew something wasn't right about the series after a certain point but I don't think I had a the whole picture until now. Was surprised that a self-proclaimed "lore master" of sonic bashed someone for pointing out censorship. I can appreciate what the guy does on YT but man is it a different picture over on twitter. Same goes for honestly this bizarre conception of people wanting characters to have a specific orientation no less Sonic and Shadow. Hearing it made my blood boil especially considering the dynamic Sonic and Shadow have no less Shadow. Though this video did make me realize something. Sonic or rather SEGA's Sonic has always been an antihero and yet the west want him to be Spider-Man or Superman sometimes. But in doing so they completely miss the mark on what makes Sonic from the games such a compelling character, not that one cannot enjoy Sonic being more heroic than usual, I think I'm also victim to the very same echoed notion that has drowned out a lot of discussion on the series and how mischaracterized many of the cast have been. Especially so with Shadow whose character has been all but misunderstood though to the same degree as Amy whom in recent years I've come to appreciate more for frankly a scarcely depicted healthy feminine character. I don't get why her greatest strength is how she comes to understand, empower, and support those she cares about deeply is frowned upon. No less the boy she fell in love with when he swiftly picked her up like a gust of wind into a new adventure she has never seen before. It isn't like the most complicated or compelling story of the century but I think it is really effective and earnest which is absent with how they've localized recent Sonic games. Subs over Dubs wins once again it seems. I think this video earnestly reminds me why I was a fan of Sonic and his many friends, though Shadow will always be my favorite because of SA2 and 06. Thank you, I know you'll get chewed out for saying the truth of the matter and the state of gaming but thank you for putting into words what I honestly couldn't. It's funny. I think a lot of people overlook Amy because she seems like such a small character yet she is probably one of the most integral to who Sonic is which makes me glad that Ian had NOTHING to do with the Movies which are honestly handling the cast better than I ever anticipated. No clue if you have the time to read this rather large blurb of words but I hope you are well. edit: I forgot a few words oops haha.
this video is actually so peak. if there was an essential sonic playlist than this should be one of the first videos to play. it incapsulates all my dislikes for the current writing, state of the fandom and more.
Personally, I really like the version of Amy that's in MOSTH. Ironically written by another Ian but he's different I swear. Everything about that game wrote the characters really well (probably because it's a VN and that's their main draw but yk). I want to see more of that Amy.
Yeah, I don’t necessarily think it’s perfect, but it’s much closer to how these characters were meant to be written in the 2000’s than they have been in other releases. The Sonic social media team definitely had fun with it and it shows in the final product. I genuinely had such a good time playing it because of the characterization, even if it’s still got the characters acting post 2010’s Sonic at times, so much of the characters personalities came out and I loved it for that.
It literally confuses me how not even a few years ago, everyone was mocking and memeing on Pontaff’s writing and no one batted an eye, but when someone makes even the SLIGHTEST joke at the expense of Ian’s writing, it’s all-out war, and anyone who does make fun of his writing has to make it clear they don’t hate him as a person, it makes no damn sense
It's like it is said in the video. The [BRAND] is more important and anyone remotely around it. It reminds me when a semi-popular sonic fan named "PSY-GUY" was ousted as a scumbag and many people just defended him just because he was popular.
I'm all for preventing Amy from being flanderized into a character who loves Sonic and nothing else. I don't recall that ever being an issue in the past though. Many of my favorite Amy scenes don't involve Sonic at all, especially ones from Sonic X.
Flanderization isn't entirely bad if it's used well and is memorable. Even Amy, in her most "flanderized" moments, has traits beyond her love for Sonic. Her impulsive and intense love was a memorable quality of hers.
@@depredock1008 I think the word you used, "memorable" specifically, is so important within media generally. That and "entertaining." Instead of trying to write characters we would actually remember, the current staff, at least in America, seemed obsessed with making things generic or more "realistic", though I do not know if that is the right word. I suppose things being more dramatic for comedic effect is viewed down upon in the franchise. I am not even sure why honestly. Why are fans so insistent that "Amy was abusive?" despite the fact that the interactions between Sonic and Amy were obviously trying to get us to laugh? This has been a common issue, and I do not entirely blame Sonic fans for misinterpreting things. I say this mainly because the series is littered with moments of actual tension or "serious storytelling" like Sonic Unleashed, making the distinction between comedy and actual events blurry. Basically what I am trying to say is that Amy's criticism is not entirely unwarranted depending on how you view the series. Now, in terms of flanderization, I imagine that it is incredibly difficult to pull off well, as with many things in writing. Simplification requires deep understanding of the character's traits (you need to know what you are removing/simplifying, what you are exaggerate, and so on), so if they are going to flanderize her, they better understand her, which the video clearly shows their ignorance regarding her character. In an attempt to make a character more memorable through giving them other traits, you might actually make them less memorable. It is quite ironic to say the least. I would love to hear what you think about all of this.
@ Flanderization isn’t a bad thing. People get scared when you say something has been flanderized, as if it’s inherently negative, but that’s not true. It’s a narrative tool that even some literary works have used in certain moments. The Sonic franchise is a long-running series, so of course, at some point, the characters were going to be flanderized for the sake of comedy or absurdity. That’s why I enjoy a lot of Amy’s moments in Battle, Sonic X, Rush, or Free Riders-because they’re hilarious and showcase different dynamics, even though they receive a lot of criticism. However, fans take Amy way too seriously and overanalyze her in moments where it’s unnecessary, attributing traits to her that don’t fit, like calling her a stalker, yandere, or psychopath. Let’s be honest-most fans remember Amy for her cat-and-mouse dynamic with Sonic, which captivated many fans and even drew people into the franchise because of the romance. Obviously, Amy’s character is more than that, but let’s be real-that’s what made her stand out and be so memorable compared to other characters. That’s why flanderization isn’t a bad tool. Look at Knuckles in Boom-even though he’s basically SpongeBob’s Patrick Star in Knuckles form, many fans love him for how fun and charismatic he can be.
24:07 People also keep forgetting that they are literally kids. If they were adults, they would definitely have a pretty healthy relationship. Cause they already do tbh
@@dragonborn7955 Yeah and I buy that about as much as Gerald Robotnik being the original Dr. Robotnik. If they're previously established as having a certain age, they're still that age, regardless if whether Sega removed the ages in some official website or not, especially since it's only more recently theu decided to remove them and with most fans knowing how old the cast is beforehand because of manuals and whatnot.
@@dragonborn7955 I have heard this argument before, but it does not make any real sense, at least to me. Consider how age influences fictional characters in a drastic way. I do not believe you can simply remove them. What I believe you are referring to is how SEGA is making things "ambiguous," that is to say, undefined so that various discussions either do not come up or head cannons can run around. Also, considering how time works in reality, these characters HAVE to age eventually. The only way they can avoid this is by blatantly ignoring age and time as a concept. This is the problem with long standing series such as Sonic: they eventually have to deal with the question around time, which includes characterization. For example, assuming Amy was written exactly the same in Frontiers, people would likely ask "why does she act exactly the same?" because, subconsciously at least, we are expecting these characters to evolve somewhat. This is why I am not entirely against Amy's girlboss attitude. I do not mind change within these characters, but there needs to be a clear timeline and actual development through struggle. In other words, there needs to be a story that I can see through to the end. Sorry for going on a tangent, but I really like discussing these things among fellow fans of the series, so I would love to see how you view the situation.
Honestly, my biggest gripe is the knee-jerk reaction to ANY sort of criticism. I like the direction the series is currently going in, in fact I think the franchise as a whole is in the best spot its been in years, but that doesn't mean it can't be *much better* That doesn't mean strange or inconsistent writting choices shouldn't be called out and that the constant callbacks aren't shallow.
I have noticed this pattern recently of twitter people only being able to tolerate relatioships if it's the most safe, boring thing ever, no interesting dynamics no unorthodox interactions, just two people being extremely blunt about how in love they are to each other in the most bland couply couple way possible, to the point that they don't even feel like themselves when they are together just the example of what a happy couple should look like, except the gays of course they are allowed to be messy and chaotic because they're just so quirky you guys.
Tends to happen when men are labelled as abusive or wimps whenever they do anything in a relationship, and women drag each other through the mud whenever they focus on their relationship.
Sounds like autistic people are mad that irl relationships require learning and understanding people and not everything will be spelled out to you. And if they are it has to be some important statement on how a healthy relationship is suppose to be or how love is love when in reality it really does come off as people who don’t understand human interactions without cartoon animals doing dbz fights and crying about feeling inadequate
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. You get these guys who either can’t read to save their life unless the character looks directly at the camera and states in plain English what they want or you get the ones who treat vague dialogue as full confirmation of their own headcanons like “SHE SAID SHE CARES ABOUT HER, THAT MEANS THEYRE LESBIANS” platonic relationships don’t exist to people like that.
A lot of terminally online people who never had a relationship and have been gaslit by the 2010's way of writing in movies and TV shows, and the reaction to the Me Too movement that made people think any form of romantic relationship is toxic and wrong and everyone should be self-sufficient. Mix with lack of media literacy and you get these emotionally stunted folks who are averse of any kind of romance - unless it for some minority character they can fetishize. I truly fear how Amy will be written in the Sonic 4 movie, because I think Knuckles and Shadow were given proper respect, but Amy will not escape the girl boss trope Hollywood has been trying to push for a while.
@@CanaldoZenny I've been tempted to write a fanfic since seeing the movie because of this fear. I know Amy has a power now according to the ending of the movie, which will make her a bit different, but I wanna keep her crush on Sonic, her liking shopping and playing games, her being silly and fun, and her being compassionate. I also want to have scenes where she needs help.
I enjoyed Frontiers and the IDW comics, but I had this concern when thinking about Sonic 4 (the movie). I’m afraid they might portray Amy as a stereotypical 'girl boss' who doesn’t have a crush on Sonic, while Sonic ends up being the one with a crush on her. This feels like a real possibility, and it would be SO bad. It’s funny, though, because I didn’t have any issues with Frontiers (probably because it felt like something different), and I enjoyed the IDW comics since there are many plot points I like. But with the movie, which should adapt Sonic CD, I really feel this concern-and I’m worried about it.
This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. It feels like it's really popular to make the woman super super dominant and the man is basically a simp or just acts like a normal "freind" to the woman. I understand not wanting to make Amy tooo crazy. However Amy and the rest of the Sonic characters are kind like kids. It wouldn't make sense for Amy to already be really mature and independent. They need to adapt the characters as faithfully as possible (which they have been doing well so far). Like you said taking some influence from Sonic CD. I can't stand that just because Amy was so open and direct about her love that it makes her less of a character to some people.
@perfectoblivion254 yes! Besides, I find her crush on Sonic cute. That's what I like about anime, they don't shy from showing crushes as something cute and adorable.
Most likely scenario: Paramount will not allow Amy to have romantic feelings for Sonic, but likewise, Sega will not allow Sonic to have romantic feelings for Amy. That would be a step too far, and always has been.
@@LeafRazorStorm I expect they'll sidestep the romancing by just making Amy notably older (like having her be at least 18) and have Sonic be just some kid into her.
We know nothing about movie 4 yet. But more importantly - the movie writers have proven that they know how to write Sonic and his friends, and Shadow. People are worrying over nothing.
@37:00 the worst part of ians comments about there "not being any interesting female characters to write for" is that shows both how sexist and how bad of a writer he is. "cream is a child" and so is tails. nobody at sega knows what to do for cream but the answer is staring everybody in the face- chao. make Cream the new chao gaurdian the way tikal was. make her a master at raising and caring for chao, and have her both teach and recieve special abilities to and from chao. in a chao garden (if it ever returns) have her help the player establish the garden and be a source for special items and upgrades to the garden. make chao gardens return to games and as players raise chao they can unlock special abilities and items. Rouge might have been designed with sex appeal in mind, but the fact that Ian only sees her as that... shes a jewel thief and a spy, she works with shadow and has time and time again emotionally supported him. incredibly sexist for ian to see the way rouge is dressed and completely dismiss shes a spy whose treasure hunting abilities rival's knuckles. The whole thing with him dismissing old amy as a damsel is so ironic. His version of amy is always *saying* shes going to rescue sonic and stop being a damsel while never doing it... ignoring old amy was never a damsel and repeatedly saved sonic on her own, and was a hero in her own right. Amy's superpower was her heart. She didnt need to read tarot cards, she read people's hearts , and she regularly convinced people on the border of good and evil to join the good side. The irony of ians amy going on and on in each appearance he rights for her about how shes gonna save sonic is that its not going to be cute dialogue anymore when she turns into a record player saying that line and we dont get her kicking but and saving sonics hide the way he keeps hyping up. Its going to turn into a slow burn of the kairi in kingdom hearts 3 situation, where the trailer kept emphasizing kairi was going to do very important things and in the base version of the game these action scenes never came. the irony of Ian's amy is that shes the living embodyment of what he supposedly dislikes about old amy.
Even within the parameters of Cream being so young, her very polite and innocent personality is what made her stand out, and has played a major role in games like Battle and Rush where she has a connection with characters like Emerl and Blaze. Not gonna lie though, the idea of her being a guardian of the chao like Tikal would genuinely be so awesome. There's a lot of cool and interesting things you can do in general with a character like Cream and her dynamics with the rest of the cast. To sideline her because of her age is quite frankly dumb and unimaginative.
jesus you misunderstood him his statement said nothing about he dislike any female he said there's a lack of female representation in the sonic series so he likes to create some female characters to fill that void that's why he created jewel,tangle and surge.
Ngl it worries me how many blatant revisionists are officially working for the Sonic brand. People say how Sonic is BACK and how we've AT LAST moved on from the Meta era and everything's back to how it was in the Adventure/Dark Age, yet IDW writers and ESPECIALLY Ian Flynn as show in the video suggests otherwise. Honestly I'm worried that if they won't be kept in check they'll change so many things about the Sonic franchise that by the end it won't resemble Sonic at all, and the blatant don'tgiveashit atitude coming from SO MANY Sonic fans (C'MON CYBERSHELL AND RADICAL SODA?? REALLY?? OF ALL PEOPLE??) for these problems makes this all the more concerning Great video, made me really understand Amy as a character as someone who always viewed her as an annoying love interest and nothing more.
The push towards mass appeal by turning a beloved character into a brand, writers who don't value or respect the source material, toxic positivity in the fandom, dismissing valid criticism by labeling it as hatred or bullying... That's not even a Sonic problem; it seems to be everywhere. It's frustrating.
Man I'm reminded of some of the Team Fortress 2 arguments even before a RUclipsr brought it up to the public (basically the game was filled with idle/trading bots even before the sniping bots were invading). It scares me because I view it as someone who views the brand as their identity. It's not just a fun hobby anymore, it's their personality. I feel like this is why I've been cutting ties from Fandoms bit by bit.
The Sonic fandom has too much toxic positivity? Between Sonic Superstars's mixed reception, the backlash of the meta era, etc, saying the Sonic fandom is too toxicly positive, is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
The Sonic fandom doesn't have "too much" toxic positivity, but it does have some of it. Using the subject of the video as an example: not being allowed to criticize Ian Flynn's work because "he's a Sonic fan like us". Ian Flynn's job is to write stories. I want him to do his job well, but how will he improve if no one is allowed to point out his flaws? There will always be people who are negative or positive just for the sake of it, but it isn't great being dismissed as a hater or fanboy for expressing opinions. (Edited because I'm not good at writing comments.)
Another banger dimitri. >Sonic is the wind, Amy is the soft breeze that follows behind. Perfect metaphor. Where oh where did that comforting breeze go…
You know this is something i have noticing . People are being blinded by the “ Good” That not one can criticize anything. If there is an issue or if you say something about a certain character you get a backlash. These writers are making more issues and many people in fan base is making it worse by defending them when you criticize their work,I’m a not hating these guys. However, looking at what you discussed it is way worse than I thought. Like , people are hype for the good things that came out last year. However , it does not change the situation we are in. The stuff that made this series special may not happen as much. I’m not saying this a fan , I’m saying as a person is worried about the future. That future is very uncertain, it has been like that for a long time. Thanks, for a great video Dimitri
“People are being blinded by the Good that no one can criticize anything.” Yeah. It’s called Toxic Positivity. Something that has been an issue within the Sonic Fanbase as of recent.
It reminds me of the myth of Icarus, the fanbase has been to close the sun question is. Is it going to make the fanbase and series fall into more issues.
@@Probably_CLOUDit happens a lot in fandom spaces, it’s extremely popular with the more progressive types. They infiltrate the normal fandoms because a lot of fandoms are friendly, they get in no problem but then they start finding things to complain about and because no one wants to cause issue they are allowed to keep causing trouble until they eventually succeed in pushing out the old audience and begin calling the original audience “tourists”. The guilty gear fandom is one of the best modern examples of this; a smaller, niche fighting game community that because of one game (strive) and especially one character (Bridget) suddenly became infested with genuine tourists who love to get in fights and cause disharmony.
@@DMAN99 Yup, every time. So much so some try to say Sonic was "always progressive" pointing to his hating oppression bit in a manual, while failing to understand their own politics are authoritarian, and Sonic is very much the polar opposite of that, since anyone truly embracing freedom would not be shutting down discussions and trying to oust people from fandom spaces for having different opinions.
Glad someone else is tackiling this topic. A video posted a month ago by BigDripMike titled "The DAMAGED Characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog" similary talked about issues with Ian's writing. Both yours and his video really brought to life stuff I've been thinking and picked up on for a min and glad to see that theres a bunch of people who see the problem with Ian Flynns writing.
I had no idea the difference between the Japanese dub and the American one were becoming so great. I'll have to start checking these games out in Japanese
I've had people on both sides accuse me of being a flat-out sexist for taking issue with Rouge's censored outfit (not realizing that she has WINGS), or the unnecessary focus on Amy's Tarot Cards (ironically, because they believe that Amy's love for Sonic was her ONLY character trait). Then they keep bringing up the "Sonic hates oppression" text blurb in the Adventure 1 manual as a counterargument, not realizing that they're doing exactly what Sonic would despise; rubbing their ideologies in other people's faces without giving the opposition a chance to breathe.
I feel u on the bein called "sexist" for how they've been treatin the females characters lately & dislikin it either cus it's not the same or cus of things like not likin stupid changes or forced censorship. It's jus deranged by this point
I hate the tarot cards. Also, I prefer Rouge's Prime or Elite Spy designs because they're feminine still and have good colors that I prefer to the current design. I'm a woman.
The comments here are abysmal, but I want you to know, this is one of the few Sonic video essays I actually watched and enjoyed fully. You entirely summarize my issues with Ian Flynn and his interpretation of Amy, and how even within the fandom, people will warp her character to suit their own agenda, with a lot of Amy haters going from "she's annoying" -> "she's too badass".
I’m convinced that Tangle is basically what Flynn wanted to turn Amy into because he fundamentally hates who she is as a character or the idea of Sonic girls being feminine since it doesn’t fit into his “heckin strang wahmen” quota. On a side note, I’d totally wouldn’t mind seeing a Silver retrospective/misunderstood video from you someday.
I definitely wouldn't be against it but the next sonic video I want to make is most likely going to be about the ova or X since I want to do one that's more positive again, haha. Appreciate the comment !
@@DimitriMonroe Aw crap, that’s my tweet lol. 41:04 I should clarify that the Shadow comparison tweet I made was 4 years ago and doesn’t reflect how I feel about Ian Flynn’s writing, blaming SEGA mandates for everything or the current state of Sonic today. It was a different time and I was still in my obsessive Sonic hype brand fanboy phase that I’ve long gotten over.
Yeah no worries man, as I said in that section /I/ also believed this for a long time due to just seeing it said by everyone. I think in my first sonic video I even referenced the SEGA mandates myself, it's good to reevaluate things.
Kinda funny in removing all of her "negative" traits to make Amy better you just end up making her Girl Sonic. Which was Blaze…Ian has literally one female character he makes and it’s just Blaze. Tangle is Gray Blaze, Surge is Green Blaze, Amy is now Pink Blaze.
And he was on record wanting to fuse the Sol dimension to Sonic's world so that he could use Blaze whenever he wants. The guy has an obsession with her and it's glaringly obvious.
Whisper is brown blaze. She was unique at first then her Tangle arc came. Also Blaze has a duty as a princess and guardian of the sol emeralds. Just make a way for her and Silver to travel between worlds easier. Speaking of Surge, she's not really Blaze-like. She had potential to be unique and cool but became pathetic. He didn't know how to end her arc.
@@MegaGlassguy it’s incredibly obvious he wants Blaze as a Sally 2.0 or quite literally girl Sonic as a main character. Chalk it up with IDW Sliver being made a OwO soft boi and the constant crying every issue, Ian is obsessed with recreating the worst of Archie.
@@captkate-yz8kd surge is a Blaze. Ian mischaracterizes everyone. So of course Blaze is included, in Ian’s mind she’s girl Sonic, she can fight, she’s seen as non problematic unlike rouge or Pre IDW Amy. So of course Surge is written to be girl Sonic as well, boiled down to the most check listed attributes because that’s all Ian sees in Blaze, and every other not Blaze, just girl Sonic.
@Graymanlegend Tbf Surge is an evil clone. She has a unique goal too. But I can see what you're saying. He's reducing too many characters to one stereotype, which makes it hard to enjoy Surge. I just see her as too much of a loser to make a cool villain arc, and I don't like her clothing design. I just hope he doesn't redeem her. Also, Amy and Blaze could always fight (except Amy in CD). They were just unique. Rouge could too. Speaking of him reducing Sonamy, Knuckles and Rouge had one moment in IDW while two new characters get their ship pushed to no end. Even though Knuckles and Rouge had actual good development in the games and are a beloved ship.
It’s crazy to me that people ever got the idea of Amy being a damsel in distress when she’s running around with a giant hammer like it’s nothing. How is a character like that ever just someone always needing to be saved because they’re weak?
SA1 she was at the start, but even though she fights back with her Hammer and in the end takes down E-100 Zero by herself. Then SA2 she wasn't playable, but she was caught by Eggman at gun point. However before that Amy got onto Prison Island by herself, got the card key and free Sonic, even mentioned to help Shadow remember Maria's real promise and helped save the world in her own way. Sadly, a lot of people seem to forget this and focus solely on her crush and her not "doing much" as SEGA and Sonic Team listened to the outcry of "Sonic has too many friends" so Sonic is only playable. Honestly, I think Sonic Advance has the best Amy gameplay in the series and that's due to her technical moveset where if you use her hammer you can finish the stage faster than Sonic.
It’s because she has spent a non-zero amount of time being kidnapped or otherwise incapacitated throughout the series, because Lord forbid a girl needs help sometimes.
she was only a damsel in distress in one game, that being sonic cd. even then, sonic cd's interpretation of amy isnt the well known one, its the heroes interpretation.
Because she had to be rescued, or at least needed help, in CD, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Riders and Zero Gravity. Nevermind the fact that Amy had her growth in the Adventure games, accomplishing many things, and was playable in other games like Heroes and the Advance series where she shines. Nope, she was always either an annoying Sonic crusher or a damsel. I didn't like Amy in the 2000s, so I'm partially guilty on this, but in my opinion what needed change was writing her crush a bit better, not downright killing it.
17:12 This. This scene alone made me understand the intire dynamic of their relationship. I grew up with sonic, I hallways saw Amy running after sonic, at the time I didn't think much of it (I was a kid) but looking back on some games (not free riders her character there is horrible) it had some little details that tells the story of a girl who surpasses her limits to do what she loves. I kind of understand when people say Amy's character is just to run after sonic, os just a stalker, but that's just looking at the surfuce of the character the 2 best exemples are the adventure games in adventure 1 she had her own story it envolved sonic but it wasn't the main focus her main mission was to reunite a family of flickies and she asked sonic to help, in adventure 2 she had a small role but she was the one who released sonic from jail * and also the one who made shadow remember his promise to Maria if her only purpose was to run after sonic she wouldn't had made any of this possible. Like it's said in the video (great video btw) Amy follow Sonic not just because she loves him but also because she loves the adventures she goes on with him, and Sonic he doesn't like commitment buecause he is a free spirit but when Amy doesn't follow him he gets conflicted feellings, wich means (to me at least) that he loves Amy but doesn't know how to handel it or show it so he does what he always does and "just run", and I guess i likes when Amy runs with him. *(side note: if she really was a stalker she would never had let sonic out of jail until he really married her)
What's ironic, is that the Japanese script of Frontiers does get Amy's characterization right. It's something the English script should have stuck with. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
The script in Japanese is a translation to the script in English, English came first (thought both versions are used because...canon). By the way, did we forget Tailstube 10 or what?
The fucking description on the Sega channel nailed it, 1000000% That's exactly the charm of the relationship between the two. It should never change. It's evergreen just like Sonic's restleness and boundless energy as he runs to his next adventure. Simple things. Just like how Funimation doesn't "get" Goku's character and changed him into Superman. The only difference between Sonic and Goku is that one technically married and had kids and still did what he wanted but the other just isn't meant to since not even the humour of said series vees off to that direction and it's also why both series have so much overlap, whether they like it or not(the fans certainly do from what I gather). Hell, Oshima in his tweet basically said the loud part out loud about what could easily be Goku and Chichi's relationship that Toriyama didn't say(dunno if he actually did say it in an interview though). I think that if not for Sonic 06's infamous scene, many would have dismissed the various comics lines since they were largely confined in two different countries for a long time but 06 brought that attention and his relationship to Amy and others to a much more loud forefront. I could be wrong but it seems like ground zero for the current debates and changes around Amy that have lead to this video started there. PS : A note on the "Piko-Piko Hammer" or "Picohan(From Piko Piko Hanma, which means "Squeaky Hammer")" in the japanese versions, that seem to be in Tales as well is that either very feminine characters have it(such as Colette or Mint in Tales) or very sensitive boys(Leon Magnus for fuck's sake) compared to tomboys(Rutee Katrea) or the men and the boys(Stahn, who's very much like Sonic). The gameplay informs one of the story as well and the comics have always missed that. Double so when it comes to the Tales fanbase, not realising what lies in the hearts of characters. PPS : The thought of a Sonic writer not being able to identify the shitposting parody goodness of Sonic Boom and thinking it's progress, even when it comes to the designs, is comedy gold. Amy's design fits in Boom because she's being a parody of herself just as the show is a parody of Sonic in general, not just the games; it's laughing with the fanbase for some of the absurdities and bringing that kind of thing to the manstream games, loses its appeal.
@RiderWithTheScarf Even now I get the impression a lot the forced parallels made between Sonic and Dragon Ball go off the dubs (that and the ones doing it are just not that familiar with battle shonen).
@@CanaldoZenny because it should've been the definitive version of the game that everyone's been asking for for years, with all of the content from fes and p3p, but instead it's mostly just a straight remake of the og game. you could buy fes and p3p for cheaper AND get more content.
I think it's an issue with Western Creators having kind of a bias against static characters. There are a lot of characters who are better off remaining as "Pillars of their Ideals" that are often pushed to change on the faulty idea of "they've been the same for too long, it's time to change the status quo!" Take Superman, for example.
This is part of it, but it wraps back around to Dimitri's point about writers not understanding the character to begin with, so natural character progression is impossible because you're operating from a false premise. In writing, there are always multiple paths to take depending on the story or circumstance, but there's also doing things because you feel you can get away with it, characterization be damned. See: the cuntification of Velma Dinkley in various projects since 2012. A lot of Dimitri's feelings echo mine in regards to that topic (and it's not necessarily tied to the idea of making her a lesbian, tho there's definitely a huge overlap in that Venn diagram). Being more cerebral and nerdy doesn't automatically make one straight or gay, and the idea that it means the latter is *personally* offensive in addition to evidence of (what I can charitably call) lack of life experience or personal interaction. It's not just a Western thing, but it's absolutely a facet in regards to the Sonic franchise (and always has been).
@@USSMarinerthe push to make Velma gay is so weird, man. Because everything people that push it list as evidence boils down to stereotypical behaviour and well, head canon. It’s even funnier because in her long history she’s always been super into dudes.
Exactly this. Mascot character of all should not be tampered with and really aren't meant to be taken seriously to such a great degree. They are what they are and stories can be told within those parameters. Look at how many manga do it. A spinoff is fine to explore, but just as that. Sonic Adventures was deep enough, but trying to make them too "real" has always seemed bizarre to me. The Western fandom has too many issues and furries are among them and why scrutiny is required.
pretty much, course, the people doing these don't understand the character at all outside a Surface Level, especially special individuals that just wanna destroy things or have inherit Agendas to 'em all out of Personal Gain or Personal Politics
I 1,000,000% agree with your position and ideologies of Amy's original character direction. Amy is sweet and adventurous and chases the freedom and fun that Sonic embodies, and that's why she loves him. Why can't that continue? i never saw Sonic and Amy as having a "toxic relationship". I see them as friends who could become an actual couple at the end of the road, after the adventures come to an end and it's time to start a new journey together. Don't remove Amy's femineity!
As much as I love Frontiers and Shadow Generations, the writing flaws are there. Especially in Frontiers. And also, funnily enough, I’m in such a weird way, glad that the censorship of Rouge ripped off the facade of “anti-censorship” people have been wearing. Because why defend censorship? Did we not learn from the English Dub of Sonic X where scenes and character moments were removed? Did we not learn from video game history?
I feel like if Sonic did not want her there, she would be there at all. Sonic is not the type of dude to just hang around people he doesn't like, she would have been gone a long time ago if he didn't want her around.
I'm about halfway-ish through the video. Yeah I can't help but concur. Even growing up I always felt like their relationship has always been an open book a sort of, boy meets girl kind of thing. They deeply care about each other and admire one another, but they aren't exactly ready for a more serious relationship since they are right where they need to be. It is a very rare sort of relationship in media that I don't think can be replicated so easily these days. I can't help but think just how fitting it is that Sonic's theme is Knight of the Wind in Black Knight and frankly how you've surmised the pair as a sort of gust of wind and the breeze that follows. I'm going to finish this in just a moment. Don't watch your stuff often but I don't think I could've stated what you have expressed any better thus far. Solid editing Dimitri.
In defence of the fans, the media also had a bias towards female representation in media for years. As well as always hating on Sonic games as the industry's biggest punshing bag. There's no telling how much of the hate was legit or exagerations doe to their political beliefs.
I kinda want to apply this to Dragon Ball with Goku's characterization as I feel like a good portion of the American fan base doesn't really understand Goku's personality or why he acts the way he does. I do somewhat blame it on the English dub
@@crestofhonor2349 somewhat? Is completely the dub fall, people act like people growing up with a complete dif character and react surprise when the character change, in there eye, create a lot conflict.
@@crestofhonor2349 YES! Very much the same issue. And for largely the same reasons too. The "fish out of water" that constantly seeks adventure turned dumb, tough guy. Though i also blame the popularity of "DBZ Abridged" as well. That did quite a lot of "reputation damage"
Really, it's not complicated. Most current Western writers have a deeply seeded need for their female characters to be "powerful, don't need no man, girlboss" types; the fact that characters such as Amy & Princess Peach not only aren't that, but come from a history of the "damsel" archetype, is a hard point of contention for them, & the re-writes they create, are a form of "correcting history", in their eyes. The fact Ian is writing English scripts, just helps clarify why I feel current Amy (especially in IDW) just feels like they're "grafting" parts of Sally onto her. It's even worse when you consider that Amy's character is being morphed, while ignoring characters such as Rouge & Blaze, who actually ARE much closer to that girlboss ideal, already. Personally, I find the Sonic Boom cartoon to be the best middle ground for Amy: Still girly, a decent fighter, & Sonic's occasional slip of the tongue moments help make her crush feel less one sided than it can sometimes look, in the games.
One small step into the right direction. Maybe one day Sega will wake up and not have American writers handling Sonic stories. Or very least hire someone who truly understands Sonic and is far removed from fandom culture, like Pariah.
@@TheKing-uu7jnShiro Maekawa I believe is no longer at Sega. I think he is at Square Enix. They still other writers that could do a better job, like Tyson Hesse (when he is not busy with is job at Hollywood), and Takashi Iizuka (which understands Sonic character writing far better than Ian Flynn, as shown in Sonic Superstars).
i just wish people stop writing characters with their sex in mind. ditch your ideologies and make something good with the things you have on hand. personally i think amy chasing sonic and him running away is a funny shtick and perfectly in line with who they are, you can write them in a believable way and still maintain the same chemistry, you dont need to completely change amy's behaviour.
Ian if he gets control of the designs: We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt off the menu. That's right! We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt OFF THE MENU!!
Holy crud, watching that part about brand ambassadors who want to prop up the brand and how every possible change to a brands identity is totally good actually reminds me a lot about a certain fandom for a certain fighting game that you also made a long form video about. It’s crazy how people will look at utter slop and try to say that it’s the best thing in the series.
the censorship and defeminization of characters isn't unique, but it is unique that the japanese scripts refuse to buckle under the changes (even if they still censored my girl rouge). we can only hope things shift back in the right direction and twitter crazies all lose their jobs as game writers. please. if you wanna enact some change, i am dead serious, try to send a polite message to the japanese branches of the companies this happens to.
Ian Flynn is just overrated AF as a sonic writer. Like, sure, he's better than anything we got in the games since Black Knight. that doens't make him good. it jsut measn the bar was too low.
To link this to something that happened recently. It feels like the IDW staff is the polar opposite of eggman's VA. Where they'll bitch and moan about not being able to do whatever they damn well please, meanwhile eggamn's va beats people with sticks when they ask him to make an announcement because SEGA doesnt want to make that characterization of eggman "canon" in any way. He respects the characters (or at least the wishes of the people in charge of those characters.) And the idw team only respects the ocs they injected into the story, both the ones with original designs and the ones they snuck in by having them wear the skin of actual characters.
This is disrespectful to the original creators at SEGA that made Sonic the Hedgehog in the first place. He's shaping the characters to fit his own interpretation, rather than staying true to who they really are. Resulting in versions of the characters that reflect his preferences, not their authentic traits or the original intentions behind their creation. Additionally, his characterizations have become increasingly reliant on his fans, which has alienated those who were familiar with the game franchise but not his writing. Ian Flynn is definitely overstepping his boundaries of how these characters should be portrayed.
@@platanoluver Its true though and people need to admit many written queer relationships are poor caricatures of relationships or outright wish fulfillment. Im speaking as someone who like Tangle and Whisper as a ship, but I also am in favor of not pressing it into the comics, because the series is not about that and I feel it would flanderize the heck out of both of them.
@@ORLY911It's pretty funny how much relationship drama there is in the comic side of the franchise. I like Archie as a different interpretation, but damn does it feel like a teen drama at points. I fully understand why Sega effectively went no more relationships. So it's a ballsy move to try to push the envelope like that, but it comes off as tumblr writing with how much they want it to be real or saying characters secretly have a relationship. Kind of a weird contrast to the games where only few characters have relationships and it's due to aspects of Sonic bringing out the feelings in them.
In my personal opinion you and Pariah understand the roots of Sonic the best. Never understood why people took Amy being a "stalker" and "toxic" so seriously.
It's a trope that doesn't click with people as well in english speaking territories. It also doesn't help that not every Amy interpretation is created equal. I think stuff like battle Amy is hilarious for how absurd it got, but for some it can feel like torture. This ends up with people who genuinely believe Amy is nothing but a nuisance with zero redeeming qualities. This isn't true obviously since Amy has more depth than people give her credit for. The issue I have with newer Amy is that it's extremely obvious they want to pivot the character into a new direction. However it was done in a messy way. One of the biggest issues I have with frontiers is that it feels too busy course correcting instead of making actually interesting interpretations of the characters. There's so many avenues you can go with Amy and instead we end up with a milquetoast version.
@@OverZeelous Pariah is EXTREMELY biased towards Shiro Maekawa and behaves as if he writes the only one true, authentic Sonic - despite Maekawa himself previously stating he rewrote Sonic's personality from the genesis games to suit his own vision. Which in a vacuum is fine, I believe Sonic works best as a Godzilla-like character that benefits from all sorts of different takes, but it's frustrating when people LIKE Pariah use his vision to bash other takes on the character. He misrepresented and slandered US interpretations/localizations like the Archie runs, SatAM and AoStH as somehow being "disrespectful corporate cash grabs" despite many aspects of these localizations being canonized and paid tribute to even before Ian Flynn's hiring - this was so bad that this actually pissed off Ken Penders and for once it made Ken actually the most reasonable person in the room. he also tries to pretend Sonic is this exclusively Japanese ethereal concept, despite it almost always being a joint venture between both sides of Sega and CLEARLY being inspired by western culture - to the point that Sonic's personality was originally influenced by Bill Clinton for god's sake. Also can't forget to mention his incredibly incendiary and hostile "you shouldn't care about Sonic canon and you're an idiot if you do" video that was deleted after everyone rightfully called it out for how bad it was. tl;dr while Pariah had some good takes and videos at times, his stuff really started to feel overly cynical and at times even bad faith the further he went on up until his recent retirement from Sonic.
When frontiers came out and people big and small were praising both the gameplay and story it made me feel like a crazy person. It felt like such a new low for the misunderstanding everyone working on these games had.
This is why I don’t like Ian Flynn’s writing he’s trying to fix problems that weren’t even problems because it’s not what he thinks of these characters this is also why I don’t like IDW comic run of Sonic
It’s kinda like hiring a handyman to fix a sink but he starts replastering your wall because he didn’t like how it looked. Mate, the problem isn’t here, it’s in the bathroom with the leak.
@@SillyTron_ the problem is not how sega wants Ian and the others to write them…like the video it shows how Ian wants changes like the romance of Sonic and Amy when that was never a problem even Sega still wants it. But Ian Flynn didn’t want that so he tried to change it to just be friends until Sega stopped them
I will say I came into this video completely on the other side of the argument, I genuenly felt like it was gonna be one of those “amy shouldn’t be her own person” kinda video, but i actually left mostly on your side lol, great video. I will say, I don’t think Ian being part of the fandom is the only reason for peopel defending him, me and others just felt happy that we were out of the “Sonic Forces” trenches in terms of writing and characterization. Ian Flynn was a breath of fresh air, even if not perfect, and I’m willing to give him a chance to maybe improve on what he’s done, because I truly believe he does care about the franchise. I also feel like places like Twitter are not places for conversations and discussions, people do not go into that app for anything other than internet points by dunking on others and rage bait, and I feel that warps the perception of the greater fandom that may have more nuanced takes and feelings on the franchise and the writing and Ian Flynn. I will also say that even though I understand your points, I feel like sometimes you were too antagonistic against Ian Flynn, again, I’m not here defending, but just something I felt. I believe he cares and tries his best, even if his best is not something you agree with, but its not an excuse to say he may not like the series at all, or that his thoughts from 2005 are emblematic of who he is today. Finally, I will just say that it was genuinely a great video, and I left with a new perspective, we may disagree on some stuff, but you made a good point and changed my views on the topic haha
This video made fall even more in love with the old Amy. It makes me miss her so much, it makes me angry with how current sega is treating her character.
I was shocked when he played some of those clips. And the guy who was sending self mutilation pictures to people, who works there? O__O How is he still employed? As an outsider looking in, I think the criticism is very much needed. It also helped to make his point, because he painted a clear picture of exactly what the people writing at this company are interested in. The comments made by Flynn about Shadow were just gross. People deeply invested in this as adults might not want to hear this but…I guess the obvious fact that his comments aren’t remotely appropriate for a kids video game needs to be stated. So good for this youtuber for doing exactly that.
well this changes how i see Amy entirely. i always thought she was weird since she was always chasing sonic and he was always running away from her, so she seemed like an obsessed fan while sonic just wanted to get away from her. i guess i never noticed he secretly liked her back.
People take their past interactions with Sonic too seriously or overanalyze them. They’re animated characters, after all. Just laugh, damn it. It’s like complaining about Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry. Even back then, Amy had fans despite the hate she received.
I like watching videos on what people don’t like about the comic’s writing because I want to write and draw whatever Sonic comics are running when I’m an adult, so I know what not to do.
Tbh I don’t even dislike the way she’s written currently but just knowing that it comes from a place of contention really ruins it for me. I get that many view her characterization as a stereotype of femininity therefore making it sexist but I feel that is a very surface level view of her character. In an attempt to be more progressive his changes to her are unintentionally less progressive.
After watching this video it has made me realized of how i miss Shiro Maekawa's writing in Sonic game's he wasn't perfect when it came to his writing but he had a clear understanding of the characters from Adventure all the way up until Black Knight. And i agree I don't like the direction of Pontac's writing during the 2010s but he was at least honest and for Ian Flynn i don't mind him writing the games moving forward but the series would be better off if more japanese team members in the writing staff had more control. for years with Sonic there has always been a big difference between Japanese and Western side when it comes to the franchise the fact that on the American side we have gone through 3 voice actors is baffling while the Japanese staff has stayed the same but only changes during the times when these actors have retired or passed away. blame Social media crowd for Amy's sudden change in character on the localization of Frontiers and in the Sonic Generations remaster
5:26 This "Will they, won't they" is very interesting not just for Amy... ...Because I can certainly recall THAT HANDHOLDING within issue #63 of IDW between Blaze & Sonic as two hanging out just for fun without it feeling forced, a hidden crush... ...THAT was a carrot on a stick, a tease of something that will never get anywhere since Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure turning 20-18 years on November of 2025, the whole story of appreciating the world around you & being able to ask others for help without sacrificing your responsibilities.... In one specific way, Sonic showing Blaze freedom before Elise was even a thing. *...A tease with no resolve, a maze with no prize. Why include it?* Edit: I like Sonaze on a personal level not purely because she can kick in heels (certainly a thing), but MOSTLY because she's a ballerina *fiery* witch from another dimension, she didn't have too much friends, she was the only one trusted with responsibility of protecting her home in dire situation + an completely alien to her environment... Ironically, It was SONIC, who takes the pro-active role of Amy, he wanted what he does best, show her she can rely on others, he only fought her AFTER trying to convince her to work together... In comics, HE wanted to show her the beauty of Spagonia, HE enjoyed his time fighting and dodging dangers with Blaze. HE WANTED HER TO ENJOY HER VACATION OR LIFE. She brought elegance & getting the job done, He brought style and doing things the flashy way! **It's all about Blaze opening up to realize her true self, in a way that even Bayonetta would be proud** I don't have problem with Sonamy, I might as well accept Sonaze will never happen, but what Sega was trying to do all those years prior with Sonic Rush only to demolish her character in Sonic '06? Then releasing Sonic Rush Adventure to fix their mistakes? Then doing absolutely nothing? Amy is the *Heart* of the team, Blaze is the *So(u)l* of the Team Sonic works best with both of them, because neither of these two gals don't want to change Sonic, but to accept him as he is... just running along with him _If Ian Flynn wants Boom Amy back, then let him greenlight Sonic Boom Season 3 and see what he does with her..._
Because they know people will clip those panels and post on social media for clicks. This is what this comic has become, it is baiting for clicks. To be fair, the ending of Sonic Rush had some romantic implications with the way Sonic and Blaze were animated. I do believe Blaze is Sonic's "soulmate", because they compliment each so perfectly, yet they can never be with each other because they exist in separate worlds - this Sonic remaining free. But I think Amy is the perfect partner for Sonic, because she confronts Sonic instead of keeping him in his comfort zone.
@CanaldoZenny Both are confrontational but can't argue with tastes, you do you It's like that meme... "LEAVE ME ALONE" **Sonaze** "Ahh" **Sonaze** *_*AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH*_*
@galten7361 "Blaze is anti-Sonic" Blaze is a Sol Emerald *Guardian* like Knuckles, High Society Member like Rouge & Runner like Sonic... She has Inverted Sonic design, **not anti-Sonic design** Is she her own original character **Yes** It's like saying that Bayonetta is Anti-Dante, because they were both originally directed by Hideki Kamiya... If you are looking for ANTI-SONIC character, you're speaking of Surge The Tenrec. A fake Hedgehog with information copied from Neo Metal Sonic DERIVED from both Sonic & Shadow Data...
I hope Ian goes to write for something else or gets corrected or forced to write her properly, because I want Amy back, and Miss "I don't need no man" is so bland and annoying. I mean... Even Sonic Speed Simulator has a correctly written Amy. The final dialogue from the crystal event is about not being able to be kept away from her Sonic.
I never understood the hate he received and fought he was a great writer, but this video really does put things in perspective. I now have a much more nuanced opinion, thank you for your work.
I love how true this video is, I've been in the Sonic "Fandom" and they are not real fans, I have been attacked for just enjoying the games, heck I've been on Discord servers afraid to talk about Sonic from fear of being bullied. these "Fans" are not real fans, they are bullies and morons that want to gate keep Sonic from the real fans and Ian Flynn, I don't hate him but I can say I don't like his style of writing, it just makes all my favorite characters feel like one dimensional and watered down. yet when someone brings it up suddenly we get attacked. I was even harassed on a live stream while watching someone over saying I enjoyed a Sonic game, I love and will always enjoy Sonic games but I stopped even trying to be around any large group of "Fans" because of this. Amy Rose is my favorite character because she is feminine and not that boring "Better then everyone else because Woman" nonsense. I love the cute hearts as she swings her hammer and her love for baking while she does her best to go after the guy she loves. Lyn Flynn needs to be replaced with someone that respects the material because he clearly doesn't.
ian flynn haters are no better, you have people like randomfox going arround saying flynn should die and that people who enjoy sonic idw are not real sonic fans,
@@exchangediary968 Your point? "Bad people are on both sides" is literally a no brainer. The main thing that is important is how bad it is to have toxic positively support something that, proven with evidence, won't be good for the franchise in the long run.
@ the problem this is Sonic Teams decision, not Flynn not some evil scary none Japanese westerner out to destroy a Japanese creation with his evil agenda lmao, it’s what sonic team believes the international world wants since they encouraged prime boom and other writers to make Amy that way
@@exchangediary968 So the correct response, as to not fall into either camp in your eyes, would be complete indifference, which is a sign of a dying franchise. Under this logic, SEGA would be better off just completely retiring the Sonic brand entirely.
@ I mean, ngl that doesn’t like such a bad idea , Sonic team doesn’t seem So passionate about the franchise anymore and there only keep going because Sonic sells very well on amurica
I am... conflicted on some things. I agree Sega is at fault to some degree for not setting guidelines for their characters. As someone who makes characters and writes, this is basics; this is why people have reference sheets for their OCs, movies/shows have their bibles, and rules of where the line is. Look at Disney; they have so many rules when it comes to licensing their characters...and for good reason. They're targeted more towards children and there is a lot they need to consider. Sega, I feel, definitely needs to set those boundaries. Especially after Ian said Shadow would want Sonic to touch him in a specific way. Hold up, i am not knocking the ship, just the comment. Considering the franchise os geared towards a younger demographic, that is not something that should be said about th characters by a *professional working in thr industry*. If that's your headcanon, totally fine but please keep those remarks in adult spaces? That said, I definitely feel there needs to be a separation of canon and fandom. I understand teasing some ships to keep the fans happy. If Sega is okay with that, cool, but it should not be so...blatant? Keep it to fan service if you absolutely must include it and not your head canons. I've seen this play out with Star vs. The Forces of Evil; do not let the ships drive the plot. This is when Ian should have contacted them and asked an extensive list of questions about th characters. As a professional, I cannot imagine not wanting them to sign off on something. Even if i am given free rein, it is better to triple check when it comes to creative works. My interpretation of something is not the same as another's...and with this being a franchise that produces products that may go into my portfolio and resume, I would be making absolutely everything I do is to the letter. Which is why I'm so bothered by Ian's comments and behaviors. And I definitely do not want a bunch if homogenized characters. We have such a vast cast we could do so much with, they all deserve to be their own characters. That's just my two cents at this moment. I'm sure I'll have more to say if/when I do more extensive research. I'm curious what theyre cooking up but also apprehensive.
I swear that the current cast (atleast for most of the characters, I'd argue) feels like its regressing, becoming very bland and generic. Where as the characters ended up with more traits and personality overtime, now we are going back to square one again.
15:00 This was a really interesting perspective on Sonic and Amy's relationship and by anything it really makes Amy really cool. I feel like that aspect of her character is rarely touched on directly but it's always been there. 23:56 And looking at Amy as the one who can truly bring an end to the series is hilarious and sad.
It’s sad that in this day and age, writers are so scared to write feminine characters as… well, feminine. You’ll see it happen so frequently where characters personalities will be heavily altered or entirely changed because feminine = bad to so many modern writers.
I have no stake in Amy but I'm so glad you mentioned Silver, as I am a little tired of him being a softboy when his original storyline in 06 was that he was basically the terminator. Yes he's a hedgehog with feelings and more expressive than Shadow, but he's still someone always carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders in a way Sonic and Shadow don't
His theme song doesn't exactly help your argument, but I see what you're saying. He came off as naive and curious since he didn't socially develop or experience things like a normal person would, but I never considered him "soft."
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT Silver's fanon/IDW interpretation goes back to the Eng localizations. Blaze said in 06's Eng script that Silver is insecure when he's alone and combined with Quenton Flynn's voice acting that pretty much made Fanon/IDW Silver a thing.
I would have said he's Kyle Reese or just future trunk as they based him of trunks
🤓ERMMMM ACKUALLY Silver from the recent games is the one from Sonic Rivals.
@@LeandreBurnett no one played rivals cause no one bought a psp
One of the things I hate the most about social media is the fact that it has blurred the lines between authors and public to the point where artists have become codependent with their own audience.
I think that's the root problem with IDW: They care more about likes and retweets rather than making an exciting and compelling story.
Since 2010s Sonic chars become irrelevant: Sonic celebs ARE the characters!
@@kuklama0706well there haven't been any proof of that imo?
Dont people do that in general
I seen it happen irl so it doesn't feel like a thing to hate the internet the most? imo
*cough cough* metal
Virus is the best story ever and should be a game *cough cough* so many other sonic medias also go for that like with Archie or especially the recent sonic games
@@Doxthefox metal virus is overrated and needlessly edgey. It's literally the same shit that I bet most people that criticized the "dark" era about.
Not to mention that tbe whole thing is Sonic's fucking fault and it's never addressed.
I am always scared to hear people’s opinions on one of my favorite characters (they are usually terribly misunderstanding of her) but this hit every single issue I have w Amy’s characterization over the years… u even included her Japanese dialogue at points which was such a pleasant surprise!! thank u so much for taking the time to make this video it makes me feel better to know there are people out there who see and understand her outside of the lens of the last 10 years of questionable Sonic media
One thing that drives me crazy is watching people take Amy’s actions or words out of context. Heroes is one of the best examples, with people thinking Amy is trying to… dare I say… force Sonic to marry her by beating him up. You can see that she’s playing around if you listen to dialogue within the boss, she just wants to help her friends and it was a misunderstanding.
@ no bc these old men literally read her dialogue w ZEROOOO nuance it’s so frustrating like yes she’s a little ridiculous but that’s just her personality? she’s not dangerously violent or abusive please be serious that is a teenage girl
I was so worried I wouldn't like this video but all these points were incredibly valid! There were some new points I didn't even consider until now but since it's been brought to my attention, I can't stop thinking about it.
@@SuperSpinDash64 Anyone who brings up the Heroes scene should not be taken seriously at all. The scene itself wasn't even serious!!
@@ehn_ey Dumbass tourists have ALWAYS hated her. They're just gaslighting you into saying they like Amy. They NEVER liked Amy.
I'm sick of the girlboss-ification of modern female characters. It's like companies are afraid their audience is afraid of seeing a woman act vulnerable or expressing romantic feelings for a guy who doesn't always reciprocate, like it would somehow portray her as weak when her schtick has always been that she's obsessed with Sonic.
It's like the gaming industry is overcorrecting after Metroid Other M was slammed by critics
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game).
The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game).
The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
>Other M still haunts us to this day
Billions must lose authorization to live.
Not exactly what's going on.
You had me up until you used Other M as an example.
You can't even use Amy as an example to be honest considering her character shift has been gradual.
Honestly I knew that a lot of English translation just didn’t truly fit with the Japanese portrayal.
I did not know there was more behind the scenes that cause the misrepresentation. And all the hate towards Sega made it hard to know what was true or not. I’m glad and happy you put this essay so perfectly together. Showing scenes and clips from Ian and the games, as well as the IDW. I feel much more informed now.
Amy is the closest thing to a "normal person" in the Sonic world when you think about it. Just a girl who Isn't superpowered but tries to do the right thing regardless. I really like those kinds of characters.
Similar to Sakura Haruno as well in Naruto.
Atleast she has been training with very heavy weights, as told and shown in Sonic Battles.
I'm convinced she's part echidna. And her strength is busted to hell
>Super strength, speed, reflexes, durability, can magically summon a destructive hammer and weaponizd cards
>Has been a stalker with anger issues who claimed to be someones girlfriend against their will for ages
>"CoMpLeTeLy NoRmAl."
Like, bro. You're playing the wrong series. She was never meant to be nornal. You're projecting a completely different archetype for no reason.
I wouldn't say "normal" in terms of superpowers because she has to have crazy strength and speed to not only carry a hammer but to be able to keep up with Sonic at least for a while.
Wanted to break this comment down like how you masterfully broke this video down. But first of all, THANK YOU for tackling this! As a female Sonic fan, seeing Amy's femininity and crush on Sonic getting progressively shoved out of the picture further and further bothers me a lot. I LIKE seeing girls who can be feminine along with girls who might not be as much.
But now to kind of go point by point on some parts of the video:
- I remember reading somewhere that Amy's crush on Sonic is always supposed to be out of reach and not be a real relationship. It really bugs me that Ian is reading Amy's crush as "Will they won't they" when a full relationship was never the intention; it flew right over his head. Especially because there's times where Amy talks about Sonic simply because she puts a lot of faith in him (Like in Unleashed where she tells Professor Pickle that Sonic won't let the world end, or how if the world was against Sonic, she'd choose to stand with him).
- I'm glad you point out the times where Amy wasn't the damsel in distress. She's had a LOT of times where she wasn't, and if Ian paid attention to the games, he'd find so many examples of that: Saving Birdie, leading Team Rose to find Froggy and Chocola, saving Sonic on Prison Island, saving Elise by ACCIDENT, being chased by Storm at first and then getting so pissed off that she got separated from Sonic that she scared Storm shitless, etc. Ian's writing reeks of "I'm fixing this character and she's better because of ME!"
- THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP SILVER. HOLY SHIT THAT'S BEEN A PET PEEVE OF MINE, since he's probably my favorite Sonic character. Silver used to be hardcore and confident while still being compassionate (the part in Sonic 06 where he watches Elise, a little girl, lose her father and being forced to carry a horrible burden like he was, and how he gently gives her the Chaos Emerald and tells her it's a lucky charm because Heaven knows she'll need it), now he's just a weird marshmallow with no edge to his character.
- Can we address the fact that Evan Stanley is like "Ew no, SilvAze is ickyyyyy... but I'd rather ship a sixteen year old (Espio) with a twenty year old (Vector)" (based on their ages from the Sonic Heroes manual). This gives me massive Ken Penders "I wanted to make Sally lose her virginity to a 20 year old" vibes; I get that it's fiction and it's not real, but the fact that she wants to make it canon is gross.
- Gotta be honest, I find it funny how people are saying "Oh, now the anti-woke grifters found Sonic now that it's become popular!" Naw. Lots of people were already Sonic fans, and got shit on hard by people in the mid to late 2010's for liking Sonic due to the way SEGA of America was trying to stay relevant by pairing with people who hated Sonic. The "popular, in-thing" trend was to make fun of Sonic fans, but that mentality took a hard stop when the first Sonic movie came out and was actually good, then all these discourse-addled weirdos started popping up in the fandom (a lot of them minors who just don't know how to conduct themselves). Lots of us who are fans, who hate seeing the cute girly characters being described as essentially weak or unimportant, or who hate seeing the games and stories being stripped and boiled down to shitty shipping discourse, or who just hate seeing things being unnecessarily changed in general, had the space invaded by people trying to pretend like they were always fans.
Literally, if you make a chronology of Sonic's history, telling all the data you could have about the time of your world, you will notice that most of the characters are in their adulthood (except Tails, Cream and Charmy)
1. little planet appers once in a year, and it a appers a total of 3 times
2. Sonic has a birthday, amy has a birthday.
3. there halloween, christmas and new years celebrations (thanks tailstube and sonic channel)
4. there are seasons, and sonic forces there is a explicit time skip of about 6 months (in both versions, i don't your "is actually 6 weeks in the ja"6 MONTHS)
If one makes the chronology, at least, it takes about 6 or 7 years from the beginning of the games to the last part of the franchise currently (Tailstube and the new year)
so what is all this even needed?for nothing i just wanted to put out a timeline
Man, I hope they don't mess up Amy in Sonic movie 4. They haven't let me down yet, but that's the character I'm most concerned about them adapting. What with how Hollywood absolutely sucks at writing female characters in this weird modern era.
@@johngonzalez2495 either really good or really bad. Maria was good in the movie, and I like Maddie. So we'll see.
@@johngonzalez2495 movie Amy rose saves Sonic from metal sonic and movie sonic makes heart eyes at her, they definitely are going with the bad ass Amy rose version
@@exchangediary968 like amy hasn't saved sonic before? did you not watch sonic x's the last resort??
They already ruined Sonic himself.
@ I agree that’s why I moved on to another franchise I don’t understand why so many can’t, it’s a kiddy franchise it’s fine to grow up really
The irony of Ian's comments on Rouge is that as a girl I always thought that Rouge looked cool and wanted to play Sonic Adventure 2 because I wanted to play as her. I wasn't bother over her having big boobs or cleavage. I think people don't understand that women also like sexy women becauss they're asethetically pleasing or as a power fantasy.
i wish i could engrave this video into every sonic fan's brain. i rarely comment on youtube at all but this is the best sonic/amy character analysis ever. im so tired of the strong independent cool girlboss archetype making its way into every modern female character ever and this is why im soooo scared for sonic 3. growing up being "not like other girls" because being feminine was inherently weak and uncool, characters like amy are super important. its so disheartening to see her writing get worse and worse because of some dude who just doesnt get her at all. i dont get amy haters and i dont get sonamy haters and i dont get why people are so against mutual pining with no resolve. they dont need one. thats the point of their entire dynamic. also, her hammer is ten times cooler than mystical tarot card reading. shes said to be able to rival knuckles in strenght, so i dont get why she cant be a cute girl who can beat people up with her giant cutesie hammer. pleaseeeeeeee somebody get this guy away from amy
The irony of all of this is that it's rooted in sexism and sexist stereotypes.
From Ian or SEGA? It's not clear here.
@OmarAlikaj it would be Ian I'm referring to. Only a sexist thinks that a female character being "typically" feminine is inferior to "Girl Boss" ass kicker.
This. Ian Flynn and the other writers at IDW have an issue not with Amy per se, but the concept of femininity.
Because they hate femininity, they feel the need to rewrite Amy without those qualities - despite that being baked into the core of her character.
I would say many western Sonic fans also feel uncomfortable with feminine characters, as the hatred for Amy exists since the 2000's. I think this is why many Sonic fans prefer a more stoic female character, like Blaze, over Am, who is blatantly girly.
@ Ironic for the progressives to be the most sexist and hate traditional femininity.
@@Villainillahe's not sexist tho
27:20 When Ian was asked about Silver being rude in Japanese he said that Silver "doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchise".
I know he wrote him being polite in Archie but Ian seems to think that game Silver has NEVER been rude which is insane if you've ever even looked at the Rivals games or Sonic Colors DS.
To be fair, everyone in Rivals kinda acts like a jerk so that the races and fights can happen.
@@solomonm.840 Silver is explicitly more rude than other characters in the Rivals games and other characters call him out on it all the time. Everyone does petty things so races can happen in Rivals but Silver has almost the same personality as Surge the Tenrec with how he talks and insults people. Silver's rude attitude is in his dialogue for every game he's in except the English dub of Team Sonic Racing. Even Sonic Speed Simulator has it.
There's also Silver's Japanese pronouns and mannerisms like how he uses Ore and Anta instead of polite words like Boku and Kimi.
@Fubuki-ro3yv Flynn just sees Silver through the lens of Archie and/or fanon.
Ian is clearly mistaking being nice and polite. Silver is a very nice person clearly, but bro is more rude than Sonic and the whole point of Sonic IS being too cool for politeness.
Silver's introduction involves him attempting to displace Sonic's life-- what is he referring to?
This just goes to prove that Ian (among other certain people in the fandom) never really understood Amy's character at all, and the attempts to "improve her" only takes away from her personality and comes off worse.
35:50 "Cream is like 6 years old". Yes Ian, and you are a 42 year old WRITER. It is litteraly your JOB to write these characters, NO MATTER WHAT AGES OR PERSONALITY THEY HAVE. Just because YOU don't like the character or think they are boring, doesn't mean you are free to just completely ignore them or write them in a way that only suits YOU AND NOBODY ELSE. An actual GOOD writer would know that characters like Cream have so much potential for unique and interesting stories.
And while we are on the topic, I kinda hate that whenever people see a child character act like a... well a child, as in being up everyone's noses or just kinda being annoying sometimes, it is ALWAYS seen as bad thing. Looking at you Charmy and Marine haters.
(P.S. Sorry for bad English)
His point was she can't get involved much because she's 6 this isn't bad writing lol
@Cisaaro
It IS bad writing, since being 6 didn't stop Cream from being an active player in Heroes, Battle and Advance Games. In those games she was actively annihilating Eggmans robots AND was helping Sonic and crew save the world.
@МишаСав-ц9ь that doesn't mean she should show up most of the time, ian said "doesn't show up much" not "she should never be an active player"
No in short Flynn isn't a bad writer lol
@Cisaaro
"Cream is like a six-year old who isn't SUPPOSED TO get involved"
And yet she did get involved! Because the entire point of her character is that ANYONE can be a hero no matter what age. The fact that Ian says that shows that he does not, in fact, understand the characters that he IS WRITING FOR. Thus making him a bad writer.
lol
@МишаСав-ц9ь him disagreeing with you doesn't make him a bad writer
Sure cream is supposed to show that anyone can be a hero but it'd be bad to have sonic be cool with a 6 year old risking her life fighting eggman, but he is still writing cream he just doesn't write her saving the world, we don't send kids to war because "anyone can be a hero"
You can have her be an active character without having her fight eggman unless she was forced into the situation
Same goes for sonic x in sonic x cream is mostly doing safe shit unless she's forced into a dangerous situation so were the sonic x writers bad too
Even sonic heroes she initially just wanted her chao back she just accidentally got in a situation where she fought neo metal sonic where she initially just wanted her chao
But no it isn't bad writing to not have sonic bring a 6 year old to a war zone
That last part about the fandom's defensiveness over the IDW writers is accurate and part of a more significant problem. For a long time, the fandom has had a lot of animosity towards Sega for many reasons. Be it because of their direction, the writing or gameplay, the casting of particular actors, or meddling in projects leading to problems, you name it. It's always seen as an attack towards them, leading to a subsection of the fandom harboring deep resentment towards the company as a whole. So, when you have people like the IDW staff, Tyson Hesse, and Tee Lopes, who started as fans and are now living the dream, you bet they will defend them. Because they started out as us, the fans don't see them as part of a faceless corporation. They have people they can relate to and project whatever insecurities or headcanons they have onto them.
I remember witnessing this on a Reddit thread talking about Lanolin the Sheep. This character has been a polarizing subject since the comics debuted her as part of the main cast. Her negative attitude and tendency to jump to conclusions caused a large section of fans to find her unlikeable. Of course, many disagreed, but the number one defense they used was at Sega's expense, in which she doesn't abide by those pesky mandates because she's an OC. Therefore, she's written as more "human" and isn't supposed to be nice to the heroes and kiss their a**es like Sega would want them to. Never mind that these are meant to be flaws that the character is supposed to overcome. No, no, it's the writers sticking it to Sega because they're writing something different, therefore making it good.
Now listen, regardless of what you think of that character, the takeaway from this is that it's very telling how fans hold IDW staff in ridiculously high regard. They've framed the playing field as this "us vs. them" diatribe over years of harbored resentment that's starting to get out of hand. I don't even need to explain how these writers aren't automatically better than Sega because they don't want to follow a mandate. They're not perfect, and they can make mistakes too.
Ultimately, it's important to step back and recognize that idolizing one side while demonizing the other doesn't do anyone any good. Constructive criticism and balanced discussions are how we foster growth, not blind loyalty or antagonism. Whether it's Sega or the IDW staff, both are capable of creating something great and stumbling along the way. Fans would benefit more from embracing nuance instead of clinging to this divisive "us vs. them" mindset. After all, this franchise is supposed to bring us joy, not division.
100 percent agreed. Every time someone criticizes Ian or Evan people gaslight them and say theyre being unreasonable or "crazy haters" and will never listen to actual points people are making about the writing. I myself loathed the Misadventures arc with Lanolin/Silver/Mimic, it was a disaster and seemingly brought back the idiotic Archie era melodrama everyone was glad to be away from, but now suddenly people are all for it again to defend Stanley/Flynn. And hey, I'll be the first to say I actually do think theyre good writers, but they have _flaws_ in their writing and goals with the characters, and they either refuse to address them or the toxic positivity of their fans double down on it. I can recognize when they do good but will also point out when they do poorly. How can we make the content even better without negative feedback? You can't. It's also nothing personal or at least it _shouldn't_ be. I never made it personal when i complained about a specific story, but others did when fans started dunking on me and others for not liking everything.
@@ORLY911 I remember a lot of folks loosing it over Shadow getting knocked down a peg by the metal virus saga, but frankly it was nice to see him get his ego put in check. Plus I do find the way a lot of people justify Ian's writing is by saying, "At least its not Ken Penders".
@Cowboycomando54 I think peoples problem is Shadow having that ego to begin with. Shadow has an ego but its not born of pride but one of doing things his own way, he isn't Vegeta. People expected someone like Shadow to have more tact after all he's been through, a characterization demonstrated in 06 and Archie. Ken Penders had a lot of problems, but its also worth noting he did give us some good stories too and his art actually wasnt bad in some issues (a shame he regressed a lot since then). Penders was only one leg of the drama in Archie Sonic. He wasn't even responsible for the "slap" scene.
@ For me it is the issue of Shadow constantly calling him self the "ultimate lifeform" even though he will always loose to Sonic, and he knows that he can't beat Sonic. As for Penders, I did enjoy his exploration into darker themes and plots, but he crossed a line line with what he tried to do with Geoffrey and Sally (the skunk was an adult and she was a minor). I also had to roll my eyes at his anti gun propaganda through out the series.
I think there are some justified critiques of Ian and IDW, but at the same time a decent amount of times, you see people who complain about the writing doing it with bad faith. So I see why we may sometimes raise them to too high of a pedestal, but either way, things do seem to be looking up.
When I'm in an inconsistency competition and my opponent is Amy Rose's characterization
When I'm in an inconsistency competition and my opponent is the entire Sonic Franchise
@@keiser1188 we're both cooked 💀
you're finished dawg
Meet tails and knuckles and shadow and sonic and wait...
@@platanoluverhell nah. Amy been an inconsistent character since the 2000’s. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow don’t compare. And don’t bring up any adaptation of them outside the games or IDW comics cuz they don’t count
Your comparison that if Sonic is the wind, then Amy is the breeze that follows was genius.
The way I've seen them since the beginning, they both love the game they play with each other. Amy loves the chase and Sonic loves being chased.
An overall excellent video, and though you only seemed to touch on it slightly, i am curious of what you think of Sonic Boom's version of Amy
And I say, why is now a problem with amy characterization?
I find the line about being a damsel in distress hilarious considering that in Frontiers she IS a damsel in distress. At that very moment, stuck halfway in cyberspace.
Hell doesn't Amy canonically and gameplay wise have the strongest base physical power by just swinging around a fucking mallet
No@@tatsumitwi348
@@tatsumitwi348 exactly lol
Flynn really wrote himself into a corner with that line. Of all the times to have her say that, too 😂
@ yeah ngl
When people call Amy just female Sonic, I think that's the highest compliment you can give.
Every other character is inspired by Sonic to go through a character arc and change themselves.
Amy is the only one, other than Sonic himself, that acts as a catalyst to change others. But does it in her own way.
She herself like Sonic is relatively static. I'd argue her only real change is Sonic awakening her inciting incident to be that catalyst counter part to him.
Woah, I never realized that she changes characters just like Sonic.
Sonic Team had such a strong vision for these characters back then, man.
One would think that every fan would appreciate that vision as an adult, but no. They still hold on to that childish, unempathetic hatred of Amy Rose.
Well she was designed as his female counterpart.
From her Classic design being his if he was a girl and it continues to her modern design, just being a little more subtle about it.
But yeah. She does change others and Sonic began doing it too, especially in more recent years.
Though her character is inconsistent.
@@mrbanks456Amy hatred is rooted in sexism unironically
@@kendraroth1276 Sonic is the ideal boy (who's a hedgehog). Amy is the ideal girl (who's a hedgehog).
amy IS basically just female sonic; which is why i think it's okay to sort of girlboss her. just don't emphasize the girl too much (though it's inevitable, all media wants to show girl power, and sonic will do it regardless) and it's... basically amy
43:08 THANK YOU
Sonic is NOT a superhero type of character, he’s just a guy who loves adventure and has a warm heart
He doesn’t follow the authority of society or those around him and he doesn’t actively try to preach to ppl about they’re wrong doing and why they need to change, he just lives life his own way and does what he thinks is right
He puts an end to Eggman’s plans because he has fun doing it and it restricts his freedom
Sonic is a brand, and by extension he's whatever Sega wants him to be, if Sega wants him to be a superhero character, he will be a superhero character, whether we like it or not we are owed to nothing and shouldn't act like it
@@cannonbyrd1755 Even Mario has a particular personality Nintendo wants him to stick to whether it be the standard non story centric games or the RPG games. Sonic is the same way and his Japanese voice actor has always portrayed sonic in a particular free spirited nature. This was emphasized in all Japanese sonic media up to Black Knight. Black Knight is still considered some of people's favorite writing for Sonic
Agreed, he is a roguish hero, not a boyscout. I assume you were also annoyed at his lectures at Surge and his weird sudden copification with Clutch in 75 wanting to "turn him in" and make him apologize, and then feel bad he was taken away by Eggman? Sonic he literally just tried to murder a whole city after being caught for fraud, kidnapping, coercion, theft, racketeering, and all the other lovely mob related crimes presumably on the thumb drive the Chaotix found. Give me a break.
@@cannonbyrd1755 yeah no. Sonic in the games is depicted for the most part how the first comment described him. Sonic even if his personality is altered or taken in a different direction will always keep certain core traits. His arrogance, love for adventure, and his free spirited nature. These are all traits that mostly remain consistent amongst Sonic in different adaptations too
Chaotic good.
I love how the core sonic friend group's (tails, knuckles, amy) character isn't defined by their relationship to sonic, but rather informed by it. Tails much like amy is inspired by the guy, he looks up to him and admires him so heavily he sometimes loses track of his own capabilities. but you know who doesn't? sonic. sonic is well aware that tails is incredibly capable and dependable, and is willing to put his faith in him at the drop of a hat " slot this fake emerald in to stop the cannon? you got it!" knuckles is rigid, he's bound by his duty to the master emerald, and because of this he contrasts and clashes with sonic's free spirit from time to time, but they both obviously have respect for each other even if they don't always see eye to eye and are willing to take jabs. sonic's core friends like sonic for a lot of the reasons fans come to like him, and as such that makes them relatable, just like how sonic likes them for equally relatable reasons in turn. it makes them reasonably come off as actual friends... or at least it did, and I miss it.
@@tvgg1 In the movies at least Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are literal brothers, which I always saw those three like that.
um...isn't amy defined by her love for sonic? like the relationship she has with him?
36:09 i would like to point out that Tangle share many traits with Amy, she is energetic, optimistic, silly, brave, impulsive, adventurous and was also inspired by Sonic to be stronger (but without any romantic aspects), the biggest differences is that Tangle is less emotional mature and way more tomboyish, so Flynn essentially created a character very like Amy but without the traditionally feminine parts, it says a lot about him
Anyway great video, finally someone who understands Amy
Probably why I think Tangle wasn't necessary and don't like her too much. She only exists for Whisper. Whisper was ok until they made her all about Tangle, which ironically they were trying to avoid with Sonamy. We also already have a character with tail powers?! His name is Tails! Maybe different, but still.
Also they way they ruined Silver for haha Whisper fanboy.
I was so annoyed by people saying the issue with Whisper having a breakdown over Tangle getting the metal virus in an anticlimactic moment added for drama was so emotional they cried and completely ignored the issue where Cream called Amy her hero while Amy was struggling to be brave (one of the few good Amy moments) and how most of the Chaotix got the metal virus. Like, Whisper and Tangle's story wasn't really that tragic. It was over-dramafied after they spent ONE DAY OF ADVENTURE together. Personally the weakest during the Metal Virus arc for me, even worse than the Shadow one.
Anyways, the Chaotix are family. And Amy and Cream are like sisters. Their moments were sadder, hands down.
When I tried saying this to a friend at the time, teasing that I didn't cry over Tangle and Whisper after being told I would 500 times, that person responded annoyed.
@captkate-yz8kd genuinely Amy feel a lot less lively, because now Tangle is filling her role it sucks, Tangle also sucks as a character because all she does is being a watered down version of Amy and actually purely exist for ship bait, given how she is straight always glued to Whisper, Amy who is accused of just being a shipbait is never all the time glued with Sonic in other hand
@@Pikasurfing1 Exactly. If he wanted more Amy moments, have her spend time with Cream.
And I think Tangle should've been scrapped. Whisper could work, but she'd need some writing improvement.
Also Tangle's design is so bland. Like girl what is that outfit?! At least Whisper has a cool design. And Ian hates Amy's design?! Sure she could work with a slightly different design (not necessary), but something like a cute ponytail with a ribbon that resembles a heart or a nice sash, maybe a dress with frills (I would like this as an alternate outfit!), but not that ugly dull Boom design (Boom had really dull colors imo. Sonic Prime did colors better, even if the characterization was a little off sometimes.)
Tangle adds nothing new either. We have a speedster who loves freedom, a flying two-tailed fox inventor, a strong big fist guardian, a sweet adventurous girl with a bigger hammer, etc.
Then we have Tangle that borrows aspects from everyone else (living in a little boring village and wants adventure? Amy's first cutscene in SA1 is very similar), using tail to fight (Tails has used his tails before to hit I believe. Either way, his defining aspect is his tail), admiring Sonic's adventurous spirit that inspires her (a lot of characters, mainly Amy and Tails), being attached to someone's hip... Do I need to go on?
@@captkate-yz8kd Tangle's tangle ability was originally suposed to belong to Infinite, but since it was discarded during sonic forces development, they gave it to her, if you ask me, he would have done a far better use with it than her.
@Raincloud5137 That's actually pretty interesting.
They could've done a lot with Infinite's ability to create illusions though more than that to the fact it wouldn't be necessary. Imagine him sending someone into their worst nightmare.
Instead we get "oh no we're trapped in a weird empty void space... DOUBBBBBLLLLLLE..... BOOST!TOGETHERWECAN SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WE CAN DO-"
good video and thanks for bringing up the point the IDW staff/ writers head cannon based writing
I find it odd that they don't like non butt kicking girls for being girly yet make only make butt kicking girls that can be girly only when they like other girls. As well as damping down characters like (Silver) into one note versions of themselves. But man seeing that actively force some nonsense in or outright ignore character defining cannon just because they don't like is just ridiculous.
I feel like Ian wants to turn Amy into that stereotypical badass to rival sonic when that’s never been her. He’s looking for blaze and while she’s definitely more than just “Sonic’s rival” the badass mystical ability using foil for sonic is blaze the cat not Amy rose.
This video is pretty much everything that triggers those nu-Sonic fans you see all over twitter lol. I'm sure there will be tweets shit talking this video with over 60K likes.
But I'm with you. I miss Amy acting like Amy.
It's okay to gatekeep. I miss Amy too.
It's definitely some food for thought. It really seems that modern writers have a very shallow idea on what makes a character powerful, where Amy being able to completely shift the tides of several conflicts through her high emotional intelligence and got both sides to feel empathy for each other, and the courage to tag along and adventure alongside Sonic and friends even if she doesn't have any comparable power. But nah that's girly crap, she needs a literal magic superpower that lets her be physically as strong as everyone else because, of course, what does your talk-no-jutsu mean if you can't also punch a hole in their chest if it doesn't work? Not everyone needs to be a combatant in order to be "strong" character.
But I like big hammer go smash
@@irkendragonsame, I like when big hammer go smash and badniks go boom
But why are males always the combatants?
@@irkendragon this is my favorite take on the topic. if all else fails, big hammer go smash
As much as I wanted Sega to not *exaggerate* her crush on Sonic to the point of it being a part of her personality (Hello, Sonic Free Riders) this is another extreme to how she was written. Amy’s overall character theme is about love and passion. She obviously loves Sonic, he is her hero and she has a crush on him and wants to surpass him in terms of fighting and wants to go on her own crazy adventures without repeating her mistakes from Sonic CD. Her crushing on Sonic wasn’t the problem, it was times where that aspect of her character was Flanderized like in Free Riders as well as awkward localization changes that just don’t work.
Sonic Heroes was fine. She was just joking and not being serious about and immediately in the fight she asked Sonic if he knew where Froggy and Cheese's brother was and after that she didn't bother Sonic only AFTER they found their friends and saw Sonic in the distance to go after him. It's playful.
Sonic Free Riders... I... didn't fully play because the controls were the WORST!
There is a definitely a case of the modern trend of rejecting traditionally feminine characters. Ironically the push of feminism is the embrace of masculinity when characters are concerned. Amy being girly was never the problem, you don’t to need to remove her that to improve her, because it’s a core part of her character. Instead it would be better to add an additional element, build her character out instead of removing the foundation and starting again.
I'd rather her be the fixated girlfriend than what we have. It can at least be cute and enduring and not insufferable and never something we've seen from her.
@@DMAN99 She already had more to her though. Even when concerned about Sonic when not around him, she wanted to best him in some way to be noticed, yet simultaneously had that same level of concern for others even if not romantic. The characters have never been presented that deep and sufficient. The problem is trying to probe beyond that and create scenarios that aren't the vibe the series intended. I think spinoffs are fine for that, because then the characterization one way may end up taking over.
Looks like someone didn't watch taro marshmellow's video about her! Now?
This is a franchise targeted to children, Sonic and Amy's dynamic is mostly played for laughs. It's also true that Sonic dislikes sadness, so if chasing him will make Amy happy then Sonic will (sometimes reluctantly) oblige.
Sonic was never targeted at children, but teens and the edgy. Look back at who he was advertised for in the 90s and the ads he appeared in. They have been trying to kiddify him and to a degree he could appeal to that, yet the edge was always there.
Sonic was always for teens. SEGA has always tried to portray the Sonic series as being for teens while (in their own words) Mario was for kids. Much of the style of Sonic is focused on that specific aspect. It's pretty apparent in the early 3D games like SA1 and SA2. It's also shown in the music typically being rock/rap that wasnt explicit and generally more positive in their message.
This is a good point to add
@blumiu2426 Sonic has been historically targeted to the same demographic group as Super Mario in Japan, which is children. The slight change in target demographics in the West was a consequence of "localization", and you could make the argument that Sega of America and Sega of Europe had a better idea seeing how the IP is a lot more successful there than in Japan.
They tried doing a balancing act with Sonic Adventure, where the general presentation is targeted to teenagers while the writing and humor are targeted to children, then they leaned more on the teenager side with Sonic Adventure 2, but then they undid it with Heroes, then went back with Shadow and 2006, then went back... it's truly very inconsistent.
@@ChaosAngelZero most 3D Sonic games are E10+, which is moreso leaning onto the teen/preteen range. Here in Europe, some sonic games like 06, black knight, rush adventure, and shadow the hedgehog were given full blown pegi 12 rating.
So I'd say Sonic definitely leans more towards preteens/early teen crowd, which are still children mind you...just not 3-6 year olds.
One youtuber who goes by the name pariah once said that sonic is not spiderman and amy is not nick fury in regards to ian flynn's writing. He nailed it on the spot
Dude, Pariah gets it. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but he understands what makes Sonic tick. He gets Sonic.
@@macp9315huh, saw him on Twitter once and assumed he was the typical sjw type sonic fan.
@@macp9315 don't know about that. He praised the ovas handling the character despite ranging from questionable to way off base.
Pariah is the goat ngl. Don't agree with him every time, but out of all the Sonic tubers he's the one that GETS SONIC.
Spiderman sounds like a horrible example. Last time I checked, Sonic doesn't go through (literal) hell every waking moment.
''The Sonic fandom cares a hell of a lot more about the fandom part than the actual content'' This is exactly what has made me tune out from the online discourse, the series has been stuck in stagnating limbo for nearly two decades and the fanbase is only keeping alive a caricature of it built on headcanons, fanfics, fandubs (Snapcube did irreparable damage to this franchise) and other outside sources. Sonic now feels like a meme entity rather than a true character, where people will spend more time uttering references to that one funny video they saw to show they're hip than ever enjoying the actual content the series provide. How many times have I heard people talk about Shadow Gens (an actual good game for once, I'll give Sega that) compared to the number of people talking about Shadow's love for latinas? Or that one time I was having an actual discussion about Shadow 05 only to have someone interrupt it with a ''Hey Shadow it's me the devil'' and I get made the bad guy for calling out how unnecessary that is (''we're just having fun'' they'll say every time)? A joke is the only way I can describe the fandom, in all senses of the term. Nothing is serious yet it is the most serious thing in their lives, for any form of pushback is a threat to their existence. You nailed it perfectly, this series is just a brand now. Nothing more.
Also wow, I haven't checked IDW in years but I had no idea the western lack of professionalism had settled there too. Can't say that helps the fans when the official people are also unhinged and validates their worldview.
@@MegaGlassguy At least I’m not alone in being tired of all of the dumb Snapcube references. It’s been so overdone and overused, it’s just annoying now and they’re not funny anymore. I’m not someone who’s big on Snapcube’s style of humor and I just find it to be quirky, trendy, Gen Z cringe humor and whatnot now. You can’t go a second without this fanbase quoting Snapcube or some other dumb trendy, quirky quote.
Hot take: It has always been a brand. All IP are brands. Let people enjoy them how they please.
Something similar happens with JoJo's Bizzare Adventure. You have the surface level "IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE?!?!?!?!" type of fans, and the people who go more in depth and have some semblance of mental stability. Very common occurrence in many fandoms.
I always get annoyed at Snapcube references
Also one time Snapcube tried to cause political controversy just because Tom Wachowski is a policeman in the Sonic movie which she tried framing it as “supporting police brutality” when Tom being part of the police is just a part of his character
@@TheKing-uu7jn
Funny you mention that, cuz I sometime see a lot of Sonic fans on Twitter just being really mad or skeptical at the fact that Tom’s a cops who Sonic likes (or simply not portrayed in a bad light, in the movies
For some reasons
Even tho, I feel like apart from the first movie, it’s not even like a defining part of his character (could be wrong, being a long time since I saw Sonic Movie 1 and 2)
Well, I don't I need to dig around for evidence and explanations anymore because this video sums it up beautifully and neutrally. This video will be my main argument for my friends from here on out until everything goes back to normal.
We are nostalgic for a reason. Don't forget that fact of life.
Thank you so much for making this. I can't think of a fancy way to express my gratitude, just thank you. I love this franchise and it's always upsetting seeing the current direction and especially the fandom view on it, misunderstanding everything about it yet always arguing. I hope more people will see those issues one day.
Me too!!! I thought I was the only one who didn't like the way all the characters were portrayed, not only in Frontiers, but in IDW as well (not to mention the twitter take overs, they make me cringe). I really miss the good old days when Sonic used to be so cool and well written
@@Kikiwiii Frontiers was not an "improvement". The characters are still written poorly. The Meta Era isn't over no matter how people delude themselves.
@@Nighterac The game sold people on a promise that they'd be better next time, and nothing more. The DLC completely contradicting that is both hilarious and sad.
@@Nighterac the meta era never existed, it was just a illusion, there are four eras, the classic era, the adventure era, the modern era, and the freedom era (we are currently in this era)
@@MegaGlassguy it was better what do you mean?
Ians "mandates" only exist because sega doesnt want him to write the characters ooc again like he did with archie (achie shadow is just as ooc as idw shadow just in the opposite direction) but now flynn is just enforcing traits of archie characters onto actual game characters. Ian doesnt even follow mandates as is
it's crazy when you say sega doesn't want ian write the characters out of character then they proceed to let him write shadow like an idiot during the metal virus just to be taken out from the arc i know for a fact it's ian's fault for that scene to even happen but it's also sega's fault for letting this even happen and slide! like you gotta question sega's quality control that why did they let this happen? which to me it means the quality control ain't perfect too.
I swear it feels like these days people who are Sonic fans are so dismissive of criticism just because the writings "Better then the Meta Era". It's also just really ironic that so many people are so dismissive these days with replies like "Who Cares", when just a few games ago they were also the ones whining about the writing being so bad. The Tribalism and passes for Ian just because "He's one of the fans" is crazy.
It's stereotypical sonic fan behavior. Your so use do getting crap for so long that when you finally get something that's decent to good its like it's the second coming of Christ. Then if someone comes along with any form of criticism like "hey this game was pretty good, but I think "X" could use a little work and "y" could be better" and they'll come and eat you alove because you should shut up and be grateful. How do you expect the series to get better when your just content with "okay" and discredit criticism that will make it great. The sonic fans who do this thinks they're real sonic fans fighting for the franchise they love, but it's actually the opposite your keeping down the franchise you love and those who are giving constructive criticism care for the franchise more than you because they want it to be better and believe it can be better
The fear of corporate relapse can drive a fandom to madness, ESPECIALLY if it’s the Sonic fandom. “I don’t think Ian Flynn’s a good writer.” “What, so you want to go back to the wacky and apathetic adventures of Baldy McNosehair? Because that’s what Sega’s gonna do if you don’t keep your mouth shut!”
It's like it's a personal attack somehow when they don't fucking know him and his basis isn't even the games, it's archie?? Fucking maddening. I admit Ian's rise is inspiring but he doesn't fit the franchise
Criticism is fine but we also gotta address the people who disregard any improvements or attempts made by recent games whether it’s writing or the story and just complain endlessly
@@Abner-gu3vetrue there has to be a balance
I just finished watching the video... I knew something wasn't right about the series after a certain point but I don't think I had a the whole picture until now. Was surprised that a self-proclaimed "lore master" of sonic bashed someone for pointing out censorship. I can appreciate what the guy does on YT but man is it a different picture over on twitter. Same goes for honestly this bizarre conception of people wanting characters to have a specific orientation no less Sonic and Shadow. Hearing it made my blood boil especially considering the dynamic Sonic and Shadow have no less Shadow. Though this video did make me realize something. Sonic or rather SEGA's Sonic has always been an antihero and yet the west want him to be Spider-Man or Superman sometimes. But in doing so they completely miss the mark on what makes Sonic from the games such a compelling character, not that one cannot enjoy Sonic being more heroic than usual, I think I'm also victim to the very same echoed notion that has drowned out a lot of discussion on the series and how mischaracterized many of the cast have been. Especially so with Shadow whose character has been all but misunderstood though to the same degree as Amy whom in recent years I've come to appreciate more for frankly a scarcely depicted healthy feminine character. I don't get why her greatest strength is how she comes to understand, empower, and support those she cares about deeply is frowned upon. No less the boy she fell in love with when he swiftly picked her up like a gust of wind into a new adventure she has never seen before. It isn't like the most complicated or compelling story of the century but I think it is really effective and earnest which is absent with how they've localized recent Sonic games. Subs over Dubs wins once again it seems.
I think this video earnestly reminds me why I was a fan of Sonic and his many friends, though Shadow will always be my favorite because of SA2 and 06. Thank you, I know you'll get chewed out for saying the truth of the matter and the state of gaming but thank you for putting into words what I honestly couldn't. It's funny. I think a lot of people overlook Amy because she seems like such a small character yet she is probably one of the most integral to who Sonic is which makes me glad that Ian had NOTHING to do with the Movies which are honestly handling the cast better than I ever anticipated. No clue if you have the time to read this rather large blurb of words but I hope you are well.
edit: I forgot a few words oops haha.
this video is actually so peak. if there was an essential sonic playlist than this should be one of the first videos to play. it incapsulates all my dislikes for the current writing, state of the fandom and more.
I wish I could like this video twice holy shoot
Personally, I really like the version of Amy that's in MOSTH. Ironically written by another Ian but he's different I swear. Everything about that game wrote the characters really well (probably because it's a VN and that's their main draw but yk). I want to see more of that Amy.
The silly April Fools game had no right being that good but I'm glad it is.
Yeah, I don’t necessarily think it’s perfect, but it’s much closer to how these characters were meant to be written in the 2000’s than they have been in other releases. The Sonic social media team definitely had fun with it and it shows in the final product.
I genuinely had such a good time playing it because of the characterization, even if it’s still got the characters acting post 2010’s Sonic at times, so much of the characters personalities came out and I loved it for that.
I 100% agree. This Ian actually understands Amy!
It literally confuses me how not even a few years ago, everyone was mocking and memeing on Pontaff’s writing and no one batted an eye, but when someone makes even the SLIGHTEST joke at the expense of Ian’s writing, it’s all-out war, and anyone who does make fun of his writing has to make it clear they don’t hate him as a person, it makes no damn sense
he used to write for archie , that's why
he was inconstant but not terrible
It's like it is said in the video. The [BRAND] is more important and anyone remotely around it. It reminds me when a semi-popular sonic fan named "PSY-GUY" was ousted as a scumbag and many people just defended him just because he was popular.
@ Who the hell is that?
@ Someone who never finished anything and still managed some fan group.
@ HOW?!
I'm all for preventing Amy from being flanderized into a character who loves Sonic and nothing else. I don't recall that ever being an issue in the past though. Many of my favorite Amy scenes don't involve Sonic at all, especially ones from Sonic X.
Right? Like do people not remember the adventure series?
She was never an issue. Just dumbass tourists telling you otherwise
Flanderization isn't entirely bad if it's used well and is memorable. Even Amy, in her most "flanderized" moments, has traits beyond her love for Sonic. Her impulsive and intense love was a memorable quality of hers.
@@depredock1008 I think the word you used, "memorable" specifically, is so important within media generally. That and "entertaining." Instead of trying to write characters we would actually remember, the current staff, at least in America, seemed obsessed with making things generic or more "realistic", though I do not know if that is the right word. I suppose things being more dramatic for comedic effect is viewed down upon in the franchise. I am not even sure why honestly. Why are fans so insistent that "Amy was abusive?" despite the fact that the interactions between Sonic and Amy were obviously trying to get us to laugh? This has been a common issue, and I do not entirely blame Sonic fans for misinterpreting things. I say this mainly because the series is littered with moments of actual tension or "serious storytelling" like Sonic Unleashed, making the distinction between comedy and actual events blurry. Basically what I am trying to say is that Amy's criticism is not entirely unwarranted depending on how you view the series. Now, in terms of flanderization, I imagine that it is incredibly difficult to pull off well, as with many things in writing. Simplification requires deep understanding of the character's traits (you need to know what you are removing/simplifying, what you are exaggerate, and so on), so if they are going to flanderize her, they better understand her, which the video clearly shows their ignorance regarding her character. In an attempt to make a character more memorable through giving them other traits, you might actually make them less memorable. It is quite ironic to say the least. I would love to hear what you think about all of this.
@ Flanderization isn’t a bad thing. People get scared when you say something has been flanderized, as if it’s inherently negative, but that’s not true. It’s a narrative tool that even some literary works have used in certain moments. The Sonic franchise is a long-running series, so of course, at some point, the characters were going to be flanderized for the sake of comedy or absurdity.
That’s why I enjoy a lot of Amy’s moments in Battle, Sonic X, Rush, or Free Riders-because they’re hilarious and showcase different dynamics, even though they receive a lot of criticism. However, fans take Amy way too seriously and overanalyze her in moments where it’s unnecessary, attributing traits to her that don’t fit, like calling her a stalker, yandere, or psychopath.
Let’s be honest-most fans remember Amy for her cat-and-mouse dynamic with Sonic, which captivated many fans and even drew people into the franchise because of the romance. Obviously, Amy’s character is more than that, but let’s be real-that’s what made her stand out and be so memorable compared to other characters.
That’s why flanderization isn’t a bad tool. Look at Knuckles in Boom-even though he’s basically SpongeBob’s Patrick Star in Knuckles form, many fans love him for how fun and charismatic he can be.
24:07 People also keep forgetting that they are literally kids. If they were adults, they would definitely have a pretty healthy relationship. Cause they already do tbh
SEGA removed the ages. They can be (except for Cream) any age now.
@@dragonborn7955 Yeah and I buy that about as much as Gerald Robotnik being the original Dr. Robotnik. If they're previously established as having a certain age, they're still that age, regardless if whether Sega removed the ages in some official website or not, especially since it's only more recently theu decided to remove them and with most fans knowing how old the cast is beforehand because of manuals and whatnot.
@@dragonborn7955 I have heard this argument before, but it does not make any real sense, at least to me. Consider how age influences fictional characters in a drastic way. I do not believe you can simply remove them. What I believe you are referring to is how SEGA is making things "ambiguous," that is to say, undefined so that various discussions either do not come up or head cannons can run around. Also, considering how time works in reality, these characters HAVE to age eventually. The only way they can avoid this is by blatantly ignoring age and time as a concept. This is the problem with long standing series such as Sonic: they eventually have to deal with the question around time, which includes characterization. For example, assuming Amy was written exactly the same in Frontiers, people would likely ask "why does she act exactly the same?" because, subconsciously at least, we are expecting these characters to evolve somewhat. This is why I am not entirely against Amy's girlboss attitude. I do not mind change within these characters, but there needs to be a clear timeline and actual development through struggle. In other words, there needs to be a story that I can see through to the end. Sorry for going on a tangent, but I really like discussing these things among fellow fans of the series, so I would love to see how you view the situation.
Honestly, my biggest gripe is the knee-jerk reaction to ANY sort of criticism.
I like the direction the series is currently going in, in fact I think the franchise as a whole is in the best spot its been in years, but that doesn't mean it can't be *much better*
That doesn't mean strange or inconsistent writting choices shouldn't be called out and that the constant callbacks aren't shallow.
BU-BU-BU- THE WRITING IS LITERALLY "pWeAk FiCsHoN" IT CANNOT POSSIBLY HAVE ANY FLAWS STOP COMPLAINING
I have noticed this pattern recently of twitter people only being able to tolerate relatioships if it's the most safe, boring thing ever, no interesting dynamics no unorthodox interactions, just two people being extremely blunt about how in love they are to each other in the most bland couply couple way possible, to the point that they don't even feel like themselves when they are together just the example of what a happy couple should look like, except the gays of course they are allowed to be messy and chaotic because they're just so quirky you guys.
Tends to happen when men are labelled as abusive or wimps whenever they do anything in a relationship, and women drag each other through the mud whenever they focus on their relationship.
Sounds like autistic people are mad that irl relationships require learning and understanding people and not everything will be spelled out to you. And if they are it has to be some important statement on how a healthy relationship is suppose to be or how love is love when in reality it really does come off as people who don’t understand human interactions without cartoon animals doing dbz fights and crying about feeling inadequate
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. You get these guys who either can’t read to save their life unless the character looks directly at the camera and states in plain English what they want or you get the ones who treat vague dialogue as full confirmation of their own headcanons like “SHE SAID SHE CARES ABOUT HER, THAT MEANS THEYRE LESBIANS” platonic relationships don’t exist to people like that.
A lot of terminally online people who never had a relationship and have been gaslit by the 2010's way of writing in movies and TV shows, and the reaction to the Me Too movement that made people think any form of romantic relationship is toxic and wrong and everyone should be self-sufficient. Mix with lack of media literacy and you get these emotionally stunted folks who are averse of any kind of romance - unless it for some minority character they can fetishize.
I truly fear how Amy will be written in the Sonic 4 movie, because I think Knuckles and Shadow were given proper respect, but Amy will not escape the girl boss trope Hollywood has been trying to push for a while.
@@CanaldoZenny I've been tempted to write a fanfic since seeing the movie because of this fear.
I know Amy has a power now according to the ending of the movie, which will make her a bit different, but I wanna keep her crush on Sonic, her liking shopping and playing games, her being silly and fun, and her being compassionate. I also want to have scenes where she needs help.
Bring back my backboned, based, genki-girl Sonic simp 😭
I enjoyed Frontiers and the IDW comics, but I had this concern when thinking about Sonic 4 (the movie). I’m afraid they might portray Amy as a stereotypical 'girl boss' who doesn’t have a crush on Sonic, while Sonic ends up being the one with a crush on her.
This feels like a real possibility, and it would be SO bad. It’s funny, though, because I didn’t have any issues with Frontiers (probably because it felt like something different), and I enjoyed the IDW comics since there are many plot points I like.
But with the movie, which should adapt Sonic CD, I really feel this concern-and I’m worried about it.
This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. It feels like it's really popular to make the woman super super dominant and the man is basically a simp or just acts like a normal "freind" to the woman.
I understand not wanting to make Amy tooo crazy. However Amy and the rest of the Sonic characters are kind like kids. It wouldn't make sense for Amy to already be really mature and independent.
They need to adapt the characters as faithfully as possible (which they have been doing well so far). Like you said taking some influence from Sonic CD. I can't stand that just because Amy was so open and direct about her love that it makes her less of a character to some people.
@perfectoblivion254 yes! Besides, I find her crush on Sonic cute. That's what I like about anime, they don't shy from showing crushes as something cute and adorable.
Most likely scenario: Paramount will not allow Amy to have romantic feelings for Sonic, but likewise, Sega will not allow Sonic to have romantic feelings for Amy. That would be a step too far, and always has been.
@@LeafRazorStorm I expect they'll sidestep the romancing by just making Amy notably older (like having her be at least 18) and have Sonic be just some kid into her.
We know nothing about movie 4 yet. But more importantly - the movie writers have proven that they know how to write Sonic and his friends, and Shadow. People are worrying over nothing.
@37:00
the worst part of ians comments about there "not being any interesting female characters to write for" is that shows both how sexist and how bad of a writer he is.
"cream is a child" and so is tails. nobody at sega knows what to do for cream but the answer is staring everybody in the face- chao. make Cream the new chao gaurdian the way tikal was. make her a master at raising and caring for chao, and have her both teach and recieve special abilities to and from chao. in a chao garden (if it ever returns) have her help the player establish the garden and be a source for special items and upgrades to the garden. make chao gardens return to games and as players raise chao they can unlock special abilities and items.
Rouge might have been designed with sex appeal in mind, but the fact that Ian only sees her as that... shes a jewel thief and a spy, she works with shadow and has time and time again emotionally supported him. incredibly sexist for ian to see the way rouge is dressed and completely dismiss shes a spy whose treasure hunting abilities rival's knuckles.
The whole thing with him dismissing old amy as a damsel is so ironic. His version of amy is always *saying* shes going to rescue sonic and stop being a damsel while never doing it... ignoring old amy was never a damsel and repeatedly saved sonic on her own, and was a hero in her own right. Amy's superpower was her heart. She didnt need to read tarot cards, she read people's hearts , and she regularly convinced people on the border of good and evil to join the good side. The irony of ians amy going on and on in each appearance he rights for her about how shes gonna save sonic is that its not going to be cute dialogue anymore when she turns into a record player saying that line and we dont get her kicking but and saving sonics hide the way he keeps hyping up. Its going to turn into a slow burn of the kairi in kingdom hearts 3 situation, where the trailer kept emphasizing kairi was going to do very important things and in the base version of the game these action scenes never came. the irony of Ian's amy is that shes the living embodyment of what he supposedly dislikes about old amy.
The tarot card crap is so, so forced. Literally just a Japanese girl hobby.
Even within the parameters of Cream being so young, her very polite and innocent personality is what made her stand out, and has played a major role in games like Battle and Rush where she has a connection with characters like Emerl and Blaze. Not gonna lie though, the idea of her being a guardian of the chao like Tikal would genuinely be so awesome. There's a lot of cool and interesting things you can do in general with a character like Cream and her dynamics with the rest of the cast. To sideline her because of her age is quite frankly dumb and unimaginative.
jesus you misunderstood him his statement said nothing about he dislike any female he said there's a lack of female representation in the sonic series so he likes to create some female characters to fill that void that's why he created jewel,tangle and surge.
Ngl it worries me how many blatant revisionists are officially working for the Sonic brand. People say how Sonic is BACK and how we've AT LAST moved on from the Meta era and everything's back to how it was in the Adventure/Dark Age, yet IDW writers and ESPECIALLY Ian Flynn as show in the video suggests otherwise. Honestly I'm worried that if they won't be kept in check they'll change so many things about the Sonic franchise that by the end it won't resemble Sonic at all, and the blatant don'tgiveashit atitude coming from SO MANY Sonic fans (C'MON CYBERSHELL AND RADICAL SODA?? REALLY?? OF ALL PEOPLE??) for these problems makes this all the more concerning
Great video, made me really understand Amy as a character as someone who always viewed her as an annoying love interest and nothing more.
The push towards mass appeal by turning a beloved character into a brand, writers who don't value or respect the source material, toxic positivity in the fandom, dismissing valid criticism by labeling it as hatred or bullying...
That's not even a Sonic problem; it seems to be everywhere. It's frustrating.
Man I'm reminded of some of the Team Fortress 2 arguments even before a RUclipsr brought it up to the public (basically the game was filled with idle/trading bots even before the sniping bots were invading). It scares me because I view it as someone who views the brand as their identity. It's not just a fun hobby anymore, it's their personality. I feel like this is why I've been cutting ties from Fandoms bit by bit.
Halo got this shit too. So, so tired of it.
The Sonic fandom has too much toxic positivity? Between Sonic Superstars's mixed reception, the backlash of the meta era, etc, saying the Sonic fandom is too toxicly positive, is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
The Sonic fandom doesn't have "too much" toxic positivity, but it does have some of it.
Using the subject of the video as an example: not being allowed to criticize Ian Flynn's work because "he's a Sonic fan like us". Ian Flynn's job is to write stories. I want him to do his job well, but how will he improve if no one is allowed to point out his flaws?
There will always be people who are negative or positive just for the sake of it, but it isn't great being dismissed as a hater or fanboy for expressing opinions.
(Edited because I'm not good at writing comments.)
Another banger dimitri.
>Sonic is the wind, Amy is the soft breeze that follows behind.
Perfect metaphor. Where oh where did that comforting breeze go…
You know this is something i have noticing . People are being blinded by the “ Good” That not one can criticize anything. If there is an issue or if you say something about a certain character you get a backlash.
These writers are making more issues and many people in fan base is making it worse by defending them when you criticize their work,I’m a not hating these guys. However, looking at what you discussed it is way worse than I thought.
Like , people are hype for the good things that came out last year. However , it does not change the situation we are in.
The stuff that made this series special may not happen as much.
I’m not saying this a fan , I’m saying as a person is worried about the future.
That future is very uncertain, it has been like that for a long time.
Thanks, for a great video Dimitri
“People are being blinded by the Good that no one can criticize anything.” Yeah. It’s called Toxic Positivity. Something that has been an issue within the Sonic Fanbase as of recent.
It reminds me of the myth of Icarus, the fanbase has been to close the sun question is.
Is it going to make the fanbase and series fall into more issues.
@@Probably_CLOUDit happens a lot in fandom spaces, it’s extremely popular with the more progressive types. They infiltrate the normal fandoms because a lot of fandoms are friendly, they get in no problem but then they start finding things to complain about and because no one wants to cause issue they are allowed to keep causing trouble until they eventually succeed in pushing out the old audience and begin calling the original audience “tourists”. The guilty gear fandom is one of the best modern examples of this; a smaller, niche fighting game community that because of one game (strive) and especially one character (Bridget) suddenly became infested with genuine tourists who love to get in fights and cause disharmony.
@@DMAN99 Yup, every time. So much so some try to say Sonic was "always progressive" pointing to his hating oppression bit in a manual, while failing to understand their own politics are authoritarian, and Sonic is very much the polar opposite of that, since anyone truly embracing freedom would not be shutting down discussions and trying to oust people from fandom spaces for having different opinions.
@@ORLY911 The ""fans"" pointing out that Sonic hates oppression is so hilariously ironic. They have absolutely no self awareness lmao.
Glad someone else is tackiling this topic. A video posted a month ago by BigDripMike titled "The DAMAGED Characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog" similary talked about issues with Ian's writing. Both yours and his video really brought to life stuff I've been thinking and picked up on for a min and glad to see that theres a bunch of people who see the problem with Ian Flynns writing.
I had no idea the difference between the Japanese dub and the American one were becoming so great. I'll have to start checking these games out in Japanese
I've had people on both sides accuse me of being a flat-out sexist for taking issue with Rouge's censored outfit (not realizing that she has WINGS), or the unnecessary focus on Amy's Tarot Cards (ironically, because they believe that Amy's love for Sonic was her ONLY character trait).
Then they keep bringing up the "Sonic hates oppression" text blurb in the Adventure 1 manual as a counterargument, not realizing that they're doing exactly what Sonic would despise; rubbing their ideologies in other people's faces without giving the opposition a chance to breathe.
I feel u on the bein called "sexist" for how they've been treatin the females characters lately & dislikin it either cus it's not the same or cus of things like not likin stupid changes or forced censorship. It's jus deranged by this point
I hate the tarot cards.
Also, I prefer Rouge's Prime or Elite Spy designs because they're feminine still and have good colors that I prefer to the current design.
I'm a woman.
@@captkate-yz8kd Well, good for you!
Elite Agent Rouge is a cool alternate costume that they relegated to a mobile phone game.
The comments here are abysmal, but I want you to know, this is one of the few Sonic video essays I actually watched and enjoyed fully. You entirely summarize my issues with Ian Flynn and his interpretation of Amy, and how even within the fandom, people will warp her character to suit their own agenda, with a lot of Amy haters going from "she's annoying" -> "she's too badass".
I’m convinced that Tangle is basically what Flynn wanted to turn Amy into because he fundamentally hates who she is as a character or the idea of Sonic girls being feminine since it doesn’t fit into his “heckin strang wahmen” quota.
On a side note, I’d totally wouldn’t mind seeing a Silver retrospective/misunderstood video from you someday.
I definitely wouldn't be against it but the next sonic video I want to make is most likely going to be about the ova or X since I want to do one that's more positive again, haha. Appreciate the comment !
@@DimitriMonroe Aw crap, that’s my tweet lol. 41:04
I should clarify that the Shadow comparison tweet I made was 4 years ago and doesn’t reflect how I feel about Ian Flynn’s writing, blaming SEGA mandates for everything or the current state of Sonic today.
It was a different time and I was still in my obsessive Sonic hype brand fanboy phase that I’ve long gotten over.
Yeah no worries man, as I said in that section /I/ also believed this for a long time due to just seeing it said by everyone.
I think in my first sonic video I even referenced the SEGA mandates myself, it's good to reevaluate things.
@@DimitriMonroe yo, a Sonic X video? I’d love to see that, just got into your content and I love that show. Be cool to see your take on it
3:12 having trauma flashbacks to people saying "It's not Gamefreak's fault. It's The Pokémon Company's fault" in 2019.
But… isn’t Game Freak A PART of the Pokémon Company?
@RefreshingMirage Nope. It owns significant portion of the Pokémon company a third assuming an even split between them Creatures and Nintendo.
The Pokemon Company is three distinct parts; Creatures INC, GameFreak and Nintendo
@@alphamarigiGotcha, thanks
Now we just need the Sonic version of "Game footage not final"
Kinda funny in removing all of her "negative" traits to make Amy better you just end up making her Girl Sonic. Which was Blaze…Ian has literally one female character he makes and it’s just Blaze.
Tangle is Gray Blaze, Surge is Green Blaze, Amy is now Pink Blaze.
And he was on record wanting to fuse the Sol dimension to Sonic's world so that he could use Blaze whenever he wants. The guy has an obsession with her and it's glaringly obvious.
Whisper is brown blaze.
She was unique at first then her Tangle arc came.
Also Blaze has a duty as a princess and guardian of the sol emeralds. Just make a way for her and Silver to travel between worlds easier.
Speaking of Surge, she's not really Blaze-like. She had potential to be unique and cool but became pathetic. He didn't know how to end her arc.
@@MegaGlassguy it’s incredibly obvious he wants Blaze as a Sally 2.0 or quite literally girl Sonic as a main character.
Chalk it up with IDW Sliver being made a OwO soft boi and the constant crying every issue, Ian is obsessed with recreating the worst of Archie.
@@captkate-yz8kd surge is a Blaze. Ian mischaracterizes everyone. So of course Blaze is included, in Ian’s mind she’s girl Sonic, she can fight, she’s seen as non problematic unlike rouge or Pre IDW Amy.
So of course Surge is written to be girl Sonic as well, boiled down to the most check listed attributes because that’s all Ian sees in Blaze, and every other not Blaze, just girl Sonic.
@Graymanlegend Tbf Surge is an evil clone. She has a unique goal too. But I can see what you're saying. He's reducing too many characters to one stereotype, which makes it hard to enjoy Surge. I just see her as too much of a loser to make a cool villain arc, and I don't like her clothing design. I just hope he doesn't redeem her.
Also, Amy and Blaze could always fight (except Amy in CD). They were just unique. Rouge could too.
Speaking of him reducing Sonamy, Knuckles and Rouge had one moment in IDW while two new characters get their ship pushed to no end. Even though Knuckles and Rouge had actual good development in the games and are a beloved ship.
It’s crazy to me that people ever got the idea of Amy being a damsel in distress when she’s running around with a giant hammer like it’s nothing. How is a character like that ever just someone always needing to be saved because they’re weak?
SA1 she was at the start, but even though she fights back with her Hammer and in the end takes down E-100 Zero by herself. Then SA2 she wasn't playable, but she was caught by Eggman at gun point. However before that Amy got onto Prison Island by herself, got the card key and free Sonic, even mentioned to help Shadow remember Maria's real promise and helped save the world in her own way.
Sadly, a lot of people seem to forget this and focus solely on her crush and her not "doing much" as SEGA and Sonic Team listened to the outcry of "Sonic has too many friends" so Sonic is only playable.
Honestly, I think Sonic Advance has the best Amy gameplay in the series and that's due to her technical moveset where if you use her hammer you can finish the stage faster than Sonic.
It’s because she has spent a non-zero amount of time being kidnapped or otherwise incapacitated throughout the series, because Lord forbid a girl needs help sometimes.
she was only a damsel in distress in one game, that being sonic cd. even then, sonic cd's interpretation of amy isnt the well known one, its the heroes interpretation.
Yes.
A toy hammer, look it up on Google. That's what a Biko Biko Hammer is.
Because she had to be rescued, or at least needed help, in CD, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Riders and Zero Gravity. Nevermind the fact that Amy had her growth in the Adventure games, accomplishing many things, and was playable in other games like Heroes and the Advance series where she shines. Nope, she was always either an annoying Sonic crusher or a damsel.
I didn't like Amy in the 2000s, so I'm partially guilty on this, but in my opinion what needed change was writing her crush a bit better, not downright killing it.
17:12 This. This scene alone made me understand the intire dynamic of their relationship. I grew up with sonic, I hallways saw Amy running after sonic, at the time I didn't think much of it (I was a kid) but looking back on some games (not free riders her character there is horrible) it had some little details that tells the story of a girl who surpasses her limits to do what she loves.
I kind of understand when people say Amy's character is just to run after sonic, os just a stalker, but that's just looking at the surfuce of the character the 2 best exemples are the adventure games in adventure 1 she had her own story it envolved sonic but it wasn't the main focus her main mission was to reunite a family of flickies and she asked sonic to help, in adventure 2 she had a small role but she was the one who released sonic from jail * and also the one who made shadow remember his promise to Maria
if her only purpose was to run after sonic she wouldn't had made any of this possible.
Like it's said in the video (great video btw) Amy follow Sonic not just because she loves him but also because she loves the adventures she goes on with him, and Sonic he doesn't like commitment buecause he is a free spirit but when Amy doesn't follow him he gets conflicted feellings, wich means (to me at least) that he loves Amy but doesn't know how to handel it or show it so he does what he always does and "just run", and I guess i likes when Amy runs with him.
*(side note: if she really was a stalker she would never had let sonic out of jail until he really married her)
What's ironic, is that the Japanese script of Frontiers does get Amy's characterization right. It's something the English script should have stuck with. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
The script in Japanese is a translation to the script in English, English came first (thought both versions are used because...canon).
By the way, did we forget Tailstube 10 or what?
The fucking description on the Sega channel nailed it, 1000000% That's exactly the charm of the relationship between the two. It should never change. It's evergreen just like Sonic's restleness and boundless energy as he runs to his next adventure. Simple things. Just like how Funimation doesn't "get" Goku's character and changed him into Superman. The only difference between Sonic and Goku is that one technically married and had kids and still did what he wanted but the other just isn't meant to since not even the humour of said series vees off to that direction and it's also why both series have so much overlap, whether they like it or not(the fans certainly do from what I gather). Hell, Oshima in his tweet basically said the loud part out loud about what could easily be Goku and Chichi's relationship that Toriyama didn't say(dunno if he actually did say it in an interview though).
I think that if not for Sonic 06's infamous scene, many would have dismissed the various comics lines since they were largely confined in two different countries for a long time but 06 brought that attention and his relationship to Amy and others to a much more loud forefront. I could be wrong but it seems like ground zero for the current debates and changes around Amy that have lead to this video started there.
PS : A note on the "Piko-Piko Hammer" or "Picohan(From Piko Piko Hanma, which means "Squeaky Hammer")" in the japanese versions, that seem to be in Tales as well is that either very feminine characters have it(such as Colette or Mint in Tales) or very sensitive boys(Leon Magnus for fuck's sake) compared to tomboys(Rutee Katrea) or the men and the boys(Stahn, who's very much like Sonic). The gameplay informs one of the story as well and the comics have always missed that. Double so when it comes to the Tales fanbase, not realising what lies in the hearts of characters.
PPS : The thought of a Sonic writer not being able to identify the shitposting parody goodness of Sonic Boom and thinking it's progress, even when it comes to the designs, is comedy gold. Amy's design fits in Boom because she's being a parody of herself just as the show is a parody of Sonic in general, not just the games; it's laughing with the fanbase for some of the absurdities and bringing that kind of thing to the manstream games, loses its appeal.
@RiderWithTheScarf Even now I get the impression a lot the forced parallels made between Sonic and Dragon Ball go off the dubs (that and the ones doing it are just not that familiar with battle shonen).
Problems with the company *Persona 3 remake appears
Based, you truly get how fucked sega is right now... today onwards we are brothers
God I hope those Sega revival IPs And Virtua Fighter 6 turn out good.
What's wrong with the Persona 3 remake? I thought it was good.
@@CanaldoZenny because it should've been the definitive version of the game that everyone's been asking for for years, with all of the content from fes and p3p, but instead it's mostly just a straight remake of the og game.
you could buy fes and p3p for cheaper AND get more content.
@@CanaldoZenny mostly FES fanboys complaining that is not a copy and paste of FES
@@CanaldoZennyThe game is also censored.
I think it's an issue with Western Creators having kind of a bias against static characters. There are a lot of characters who are better off remaining as "Pillars of their Ideals" that are often pushed to change on the faulty idea of "they've been the same for too long, it's time to change the status quo!" Take Superman, for example.
This is part of it, but it wraps back around to Dimitri's point about writers not understanding the character to begin with, so natural character progression is impossible because you're operating from a false premise. In writing, there are always multiple paths to take depending on the story or circumstance, but there's also doing things because you feel you can get away with it, characterization be damned.
See: the cuntification of Velma Dinkley in various projects since 2012. A lot of Dimitri's feelings echo mine in regards to that topic (and it's not necessarily tied to the idea of making her a lesbian, tho there's definitely a huge overlap in that Venn diagram). Being more cerebral and nerdy doesn't automatically make one straight or gay, and the idea that it means the latter is *personally* offensive in addition to evidence of (what I can charitably call) lack of life experience or personal interaction.
It's not just a Western thing, but it's absolutely a facet in regards to the Sonic franchise (and always has been).
@@USSMariner Yes. Yes exactly. And thank you for bringing up Velma in regards to this I feel the same way in many instances.
@@USSMarinerthe push to make Velma gay is so weird, man. Because everything people that push it list as evidence boils down to stereotypical behaviour and well, head canon. It’s even funnier because in her long history she’s always been super into dudes.
Exactly this. Mascot character of all should not be tampered with and really aren't meant to be taken seriously to such a great degree. They are what they are and stories can be told within those parameters. Look at how many manga do it. A spinoff is fine to explore, but just as that. Sonic Adventures was deep enough, but trying to make them too "real" has always seemed bizarre to me. The Western fandom has too many issues and furries are among them and why scrutiny is required.
pretty much, course, the people doing these don't understand the character at all outside a Surface Level, especially special individuals that just wanna destroy things or have inherit Agendas to 'em all out of Personal Gain or Personal Politics
I 1,000,000% agree with your position and ideologies of Amy's original character direction. Amy is sweet and adventurous and chases the freedom and fun that Sonic embodies, and that's why she loves him. Why can't that continue? i never saw Sonic and Amy as having a "toxic relationship". I see them as friends who could become an actual couple at the end of the road, after the adventures come to an end and it's time to start a new journey together. Don't remove Amy's femineity!
As much as I love Frontiers and Shadow Generations, the writing flaws are there. Especially in Frontiers. And also, funnily enough, I’m in such a weird way, glad that the censorship of Rouge ripped off the facade of “anti-censorship” people have been wearing. Because why defend censorship? Did we not learn from the English Dub of Sonic X where scenes and character moments were removed? Did we not learn from video game history?
“Our side is doing it so it must be good.”
Honestly Frontiers' story can be just as bad as Forces but we're not allowed to critique the lord and savior
@@Nighterac That seems extreme. Frontiers at least tried to tell a story with some semblance of stakes.
@@littlebabyman8494 Because Forces, whose premise is that the doctor finally won and took over the world, did not?
@@MegaGlassguy execution was garbage
I feel like if Sonic did not want her there, she would be there at all. Sonic is not the type of dude to just hang around people he doesn't like, she would have been gone a long time ago if he didn't want her around.
He also purposefully slows down for her on several occasions when we know just how fast he can go
I'm about halfway-ish through the video. Yeah I can't help but concur. Even growing up I always felt like their relationship has always been an open book a sort of, boy meets girl kind of thing. They deeply care about each other and admire one another, but they aren't exactly ready for a more serious relationship since they are right where they need to be. It is a very rare sort of relationship in media that I don't think can be replicated so easily these days. I can't help but think just how fitting it is that Sonic's theme is Knight of the Wind in Black Knight and frankly how you've surmised the pair as a sort of gust of wind and the breeze that follows. I'm going to finish this in just a moment. Don't watch your stuff often but I don't think I could've stated what you have expressed any better thus far. Solid editing Dimitri.
Amy Rose is my favorite character and I really dislike how Ian Flynn has been handling her character. Thank you for shedding light on this topic.
He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written. Get over yourself
@@SillyTron_ are you saying this in multiple places? If so, why?
Typical Dimitri
Making an hour long about amy
Maybe if so called sonic fans had not been disrespecting Amy's character for so long on the internet in the past this wouldn't be happening.
In defence of the fans, the media also had a bias towards female representation in media for years. As well as always hating on Sonic games as the industry's biggest punshing bag.
There's no telling how much of the hate was legit or exagerations doe to their political beliefs.
They never liked Amy and they openly admit it by saying they like her ""new"" version which is a completely different character
Blame to misoginy gaming from those days.
@@depredock1008 Yeap, hate towards men was the popular thing to do back then.
to be fair; her original writing could be HARSH. saying she'd chose sonic over the world was just... oof
A western writer fundamentally misunderstanding japanese characterization?
What's next? Wet water?
I kinda want to apply this to Dragon Ball with Goku's characterization as I feel like a good portion of the American fan base doesn't really understand Goku's personality or why he acts the way he does. I do somewhat blame it on the English dub
@@crestofhonor2349 somewhat? Is completely the dub fall, people act like people growing up with a complete dif character and react surprise when the character change, in there eye, create a lot conflict.
@@crestofhonor2349 YES!
Very much the same issue. And for largely the same reasons too.
The "fish out of water" that constantly seeks adventure turned dumb, tough guy.
Though i also blame the popularity of "DBZ Abridged" as well.
That did quite a lot of "reputation damage"
Can you elaborate on what you mean
@@MaverickHunterXZA Abridged goku is more faithful to the japanese goku then dub goku lol they actively make fun of dub goku in abridged.
Really, it's not complicated. Most current Western writers have a deeply seeded need for their female characters to be "powerful, don't need no man, girlboss" types; the fact that characters such as Amy & Princess Peach not only aren't that, but come from a history of the "damsel" archetype, is a hard point of contention for them, & the re-writes they create, are a form of "correcting history", in their eyes. The fact Ian is writing English scripts, just helps clarify why I feel current Amy (especially in IDW) just feels like they're "grafting" parts of Sally onto her. It's even worse when you consider that Amy's character is being morphed, while ignoring characters such as Rouge & Blaze, who actually ARE much closer to that girlboss ideal, already.
Personally, I find the Sonic Boom cartoon to be the best middle ground for Amy: Still girly, a decent fighter, & Sonic's occasional slip of the tongue moments help make her crush feel less one sided than it can sometimes look, in the games.
i fucking love sonic the hedgehog
So glad Sega put a stop to Ian answering "lore questions" in his bunblecast. Was real tired of his fans putting his words in there as series fact
He doesnt even know how to explain his own decisions and dialogs and his fucking writting its like he doesnt know what the fuck he s doing.
One small step into the right direction. Maybe one day Sega will wake up and not have American writers handling Sonic stories. Or very least hire someone who truly understands Sonic and is far removed from fandom culture, like Pariah.
I hope they have some of the writers of the Adventure to Unleashed Eras return
@@TheKing-uu7jnShiro Maekawa I believe is no longer at Sega. I think he is at Square Enix. They still other writers that could do a better job, like Tyson Hesse (when he is not busy with is job at Hollywood), and Takashi Iizuka (which understands Sonic character writing far better than Ian Flynn, as shown in Sonic Superstars).
@@CanaldoZenny I don't think that Iizuka has that kind of role at Sonic team, am I wrong? And did he write for superstars?
i just wish people stop writing characters with their sex in mind. ditch your ideologies and make something good with the things you have on hand.
personally i think amy chasing sonic and him running away is a funny shtick and perfectly in line with who they are, you can write them in a believable way and still maintain the same chemistry, you dont need to completely change amy's behaviour.
It was funny and it's so fucking creepy people are overanalyzing and treating it like a moral issue when it's literally just Pucca
Ian if he gets control of the designs:
We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt off the menu.
That's right!
We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt OFF THE MENU!!
"... Who are you talking to?"
I was not expecting a Free Bird reference, but here we are.
What’s a hoop skirt?
Holy crud, watching that part about brand ambassadors who want to prop up the brand and how every possible change to a brands identity is totally good actually reminds me a lot about a certain fandom for a certain fighting game that you also made a long form video about. It’s crazy how people will look at utter slop and try to say that it’s the best thing in the series.
the censorship and defeminization of characters isn't unique, but it is unique that the japanese scripts refuse to buckle under the changes (even if they still censored my girl rouge). we can only hope things shift back in the right direction and twitter crazies all lose their jobs as game writers. please.
if you wanna enact some change, i am dead serious, try to send a polite message to the japanese branches of the companies this happens to.
I'd be down for that. I find many chronically online people are in too deep on things like this. People need to take the Internet less seriously.
Ian Flynn is just overrated AF as a sonic writer.
Like, sure, he's better than anything we got in the games since Black Knight. that doens't make him good. it jsut measn the bar was too low.
To link this to something that happened recently.
It feels like the IDW staff is the polar opposite of eggman's VA. Where they'll bitch and moan about not being able to do whatever they damn well please, meanwhile eggamn's va beats people with sticks when they ask him to make an announcement because SEGA doesnt want to make that characterization of eggman "canon" in any way.
He respects the characters (or at least the wishes of the people in charge of those characters.)
And the idw team only respects the ocs they injected into the story, both the ones with original designs and the ones they snuck in by having them wear the skin of actual characters.
This is disrespectful to the original creators at SEGA that made Sonic the Hedgehog in the first place.
He's shaping the characters to fit his own interpretation, rather than staying true to who they really are. Resulting in versions of the characters that reflect his preferences, not their authentic traits or the original intentions behind their creation. Additionally, his characterizations have become increasingly reliant on his fans, which has alienated those who were familiar with the game franchise but not his writing.
Ian Flynn is definitely overstepping his boundaries of how these characters should be portrayed.
If this video gets big, I wish you luck because the discourse is going to be ugly.
Out of context clips about the comic staff and people using sonic characters as their mouth pieces might spread like wildfire
Oh the gay stuff is going to be a bloodbath
@@platanoluver Its true though and people need to admit many written queer relationships are poor caricatures of relationships or outright wish fulfillment. Im speaking as someone who like Tangle and Whisper as a ship, but I also am in favor of not pressing it into the comics, because the series is not about that and I feel it would flanderize the heck out of both of them.
@@ORLY911It's pretty funny how much relationship drama there is in the comic side of the franchise. I like Archie as a different interpretation, but damn does it feel like a teen drama at points. I fully understand why Sega effectively went no more relationships. So it's a ballsy move to try to push the envelope like that, but it comes off as tumblr writing with how much they want it to be real or saying characters secretly have a relationship. Kind of a weird contrast to the games where only few characters have relationships and it's due to aspects of Sonic bringing out the feelings in them.
@@platanoluver oh if only you knew just how bad it was outside of the gay stuff...
In my personal opinion you and Pariah understand the roots of Sonic the best. Never understood why people took Amy being a "stalker" and "toxic" so seriously.
Please do not use pariah as a source, his criticism is some of the worst I've ever seen.
@@cannonbyrd1755 ?
It's a trope that doesn't click with people as well in english speaking territories. It also doesn't help that not every Amy interpretation is created equal. I think stuff like battle Amy is hilarious for how absurd it got, but for some it can feel like torture. This ends up with people who genuinely believe Amy is nothing but a nuisance with zero redeeming qualities. This isn't true obviously since Amy has more depth than people give her credit for. The issue I have with newer Amy is that it's extremely obvious they want to pivot the character into a new direction. However it was done in a messy way. One of the biggest issues I have with frontiers is that it feels too busy course correcting instead of making actually interesting interpretations of the characters. There's so many avenues you can go with Amy and instead we end up with a milquetoast version.
@@cannonbyrd1755 Of the games or of the characters..? Depends on how much I agree with you.
@@OverZeelous Pariah is EXTREMELY biased towards Shiro Maekawa and behaves as if he writes the only one true, authentic Sonic - despite Maekawa himself previously stating he rewrote Sonic's personality from the genesis games to suit his own vision. Which in a vacuum is fine, I believe Sonic works best as a Godzilla-like character that benefits from all sorts of different takes, but it's frustrating when people LIKE Pariah use his vision to bash other takes on the character.
He misrepresented and slandered US interpretations/localizations like the Archie runs, SatAM and AoStH as somehow being "disrespectful corporate cash grabs" despite many aspects of these localizations being canonized and paid tribute to even before Ian Flynn's hiring - this was so bad that this actually pissed off Ken Penders and for once it made Ken actually the most reasonable person in the room.
he also tries to pretend Sonic is this exclusively Japanese ethereal concept, despite it almost always being a joint venture between both sides of Sega and CLEARLY being inspired by western culture - to the point that Sonic's personality was originally influenced by Bill Clinton for god's sake. Also can't forget to mention his incredibly incendiary and hostile "you shouldn't care about Sonic canon and you're an idiot if you do" video that was deleted after everyone rightfully called it out for how bad it was.
tl;dr while Pariah had some good takes and videos at times, his stuff really started to feel overly cynical and at times even bad faith the further he went on up until his recent retirement from Sonic.
When frontiers came out and people big and small were praising both the gameplay and story it made me feel like a crazy person. It felt like such a new low for the misunderstanding everyone working on these games had.
The ''You don't understand, a 7/10 is like a 10/10 for us Sonic fans'' tweet is a constant reminder of how low this fanbase has fallen to me.
I just hope Movie 4 can give Sonic and Amy a dynamic where they play off each other, understanding each other references, etc
Finally a RUclips vid addressing the fact that Amy hasn’t been Amy
me*pulls out a list*
this is not a "finally"thing, this is just redundancy
This is why I don’t like Ian Flynn’s writing he’s trying to fix problems that weren’t even problems because it’s not what he thinks of these characters this is also why I don’t like IDW comic run of Sonic
It’s kinda like hiring a handyman to fix a sink but he starts replastering your wall because he didn’t like how it looked. Mate, the problem isn’t here, it’s in the bathroom with the leak.
He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written. Get over yourself
@@SillyTron_ the problem is not how sega wants Ian and the others to write them…like the video it shows how Ian wants changes like the romance of Sonic and Amy when that was never a problem even Sega still wants it. But Ian Flynn didn’t want that so he tried to change it to just be friends until Sega stopped them
@@BNS-gl6cwBro is treating Ian Flynn like fucking Adolf Hitler
I will say I came into this video completely on the other side of the argument, I genuenly felt like it was gonna be one of those “amy shouldn’t be her own person” kinda video, but i actually left mostly on your side lol, great video.
I will say, I don’t think Ian being part of the fandom is the only reason for peopel defending him, me and others just felt happy that we were out of the “Sonic Forces” trenches in terms of writing and characterization.
Ian Flynn was a breath of fresh air, even if not perfect, and I’m willing to give him a chance to maybe improve on what he’s done, because I truly believe he does care about the franchise.
I also feel like places like Twitter are not places for conversations and discussions, people do not go into that app for anything other than internet points by dunking on others and rage bait, and I feel that warps the perception of the greater fandom that may have more nuanced takes and feelings on the franchise and the writing and Ian Flynn.
I will also say that even though I understand your points, I feel like sometimes you were too antagonistic against Ian Flynn, again, I’m not here defending, but just something I felt. I believe he cares and tries his best, even if his best is not something you agree with, but its not an excuse to say he may not like the series at all, or that his thoughts from 2005 are emblematic of who he is today.
Finally, I will just say that it was genuinely a great video, and I left with a new perspective, we may disagree on some stuff, but you made a good point and changed my views on the topic haha
Thank you, glad you got something from it, some disagreement is always to be expected.
This video made fall even more in love with the old Amy. It makes me miss her so much, it makes me angry with how current sega is treating her character.
I was shocked when he played some of those clips. And the guy who was sending self mutilation pictures to people, who works there? O__O How is he still employed?
As an outsider looking in, I think the criticism is very much needed. It also helped to make his point, because he painted a clear picture of exactly what the people writing at this company are interested in. The comments made by Flynn about Shadow were just gross. People deeply invested in this as adults might not want to hear this but…I guess the obvious fact that his comments aren’t remotely appropriate for a kids video game needs to be stated.
So good for this youtuber for doing exactly that.
@@NicheXCC I loved her antics. She's so sanitized now and it's sad
well this changes how i see Amy entirely. i always thought she was weird since she was always chasing sonic and he was always running away from her, so she seemed like an obsessed fan while sonic just wanted to get away from her. i guess i never noticed he secretly liked her back.
The chase was a game between them. Of course someone like flynn wouldn't understand running for fun
People take their past interactions with Sonic too seriously or overanalyze them. They’re animated characters, after all. Just laugh, damn it. It’s like complaining about Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry. Even back then, Amy had fans despite the hate she received.
I like watching videos on what people don’t like about the comic’s writing because I want to write and draw whatever Sonic comics are running when I’m an adult, so I know what not to do.
That’s awesome, wishing you the best with that in the future. Whether it be on Sonic stuff and/or other things.
@ thank you! I practice my art and study writing (especially the characterization of sonic characters) a lot!
Tbh I don’t even dislike the way she’s written currently but just knowing that it comes from a place of contention really ruins it for me. I get that many view her characterization as a stereotype of femininity therefore making it sexist but I feel that is a very surface level view of her character. In an attempt to be more progressive his changes to her are unintentionally less progressive.
After watching this video it has made me realized of how i miss Shiro Maekawa's writing in Sonic game's he wasn't perfect when it came to his writing but he had a clear understanding of the characters from Adventure all the way up until Black Knight. And i agree I don't like the direction of Pontac's writing during the 2010s but he was at least honest and for Ian Flynn i don't mind him writing the games moving forward but the series would be better off if more japanese team members in the writing staff had more control. for years with Sonic there has always been a big difference between Japanese and Western side when it comes to the franchise the fact that on the American side we have gone through 3 voice actors is baffling while the Japanese staff has stayed the same but only changes during the times when these actors have retired or passed away. blame Social media crowd for Amy's sudden change in character on the localization of Frontiers and in the Sonic Generations remaster
5:26 This "Will they, won't they" is very interesting not just for Amy...
...Because I can certainly recall THAT HANDHOLDING within issue #63 of IDW between Blaze & Sonic as two hanging out just for fun without it feeling forced, a hidden crush...
...THAT was a carrot on a stick, a tease of something that will never get anywhere since Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure turning 20-18 years on November of 2025, the whole story of appreciating the world around you & being able to ask others for help without sacrificing your responsibilities.... In one specific way, Sonic showing Blaze freedom before Elise was even a thing.
*...A tease with no resolve, a maze with no prize. Why include it?*
Edit: I like Sonaze on a personal level not purely because she can kick in heels (certainly a thing), but MOSTLY because she's a ballerina *fiery* witch from another dimension, she didn't have too much friends, she was the only one trusted with responsibility of protecting her home in dire situation + an completely alien to her environment...
Ironically, It was SONIC, who takes the pro-active role of Amy, he wanted what he does best, show her she can rely on others, he only fought her AFTER trying to convince her to work together...
In comics, HE wanted to show her the beauty of Spagonia, HE enjoyed his time fighting and dodging dangers with Blaze. HE WANTED HER TO ENJOY HER VACATION OR LIFE.
She brought elegance & getting the job done, He brought style and doing things the flashy way! **It's all about Blaze opening up to realize her true self, in a way that even Bayonetta would be proud**
I don't have problem with Sonamy, I might as well accept Sonaze will never happen, but what Sega was trying to do all those years prior with Sonic Rush only to demolish her character in Sonic '06? Then releasing Sonic Rush Adventure to fix their mistakes? Then doing absolutely nothing?
Amy is the *Heart* of the team, Blaze is the *So(u)l* of the Team
Sonic works best with both of them, because neither of these two gals don't want to change Sonic, but to accept him as he is... just running along with him
_If Ian Flynn wants Boom Amy back, then let him greenlight Sonic Boom Season 3 and see what he does with her..._
Because they know people will clip those panels and post on social media for clicks. This is what this comic has become, it is baiting for clicks.
To be fair, the ending of Sonic Rush had some romantic implications with the way Sonic and Blaze were animated. I do believe Blaze is Sonic's "soulmate", because they compliment each so perfectly, yet they can never be with each other because they exist in separate worlds - this Sonic remaining free.
But I think Amy is the perfect partner for Sonic, because she confronts Sonic instead of keeping him in his comfort zone.
@CanaldoZenny Both are confrontational but can't argue with tastes, you do you
It's like that meme...
"LEAVE ME ALONE"
**Sonaze**
"Ahh"
**Sonaze**
*_*AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH*_*
@@CanaldoZenny Blaze is the anti-Sonic. Amy is the ideal girl to Sonic's ideal boy.
@galten7361 "Blaze is anti-Sonic"
Blaze is a Sol Emerald *Guardian* like Knuckles, High Society Member like Rouge & Runner like Sonic...
She has Inverted Sonic design, **not anti-Sonic design**
Is she her own original character **Yes**
It's like saying that Bayonetta is Anti-Dante, because they were both originally directed by Hideki Kamiya...
If you are looking for ANTI-SONIC character, you're speaking of Surge The Tenrec. A fake Hedgehog with information copied from Neo Metal Sonic DERIVED from both Sonic & Shadow Data...
I hope Ian goes to write for something else or gets corrected or forced to write her properly, because I want Amy back, and Miss "I don't need no man" is so bland and annoying.
I mean... Even Sonic Speed Simulator has a correctly written Amy. The final dialogue from the crystal event is about not being able to be kept away from her Sonic.
Both are bland and boring. I want neither.
I never understood the hate he received and fought he was a great writer, but this video really does put things in perspective. I now have a much more nuanced opinion, thank you for your work.
I wish this phenomenon was exclusive to Sonic, it feels like almost every long running franchise has lost the plot.
I like that Wind and Breeze aspect
I love how true this video is, I've been in the Sonic "Fandom" and they are not real fans, I have been attacked for just enjoying the games, heck I've been on Discord servers afraid to talk about Sonic from fear of being bullied. these "Fans" are not real fans, they are bullies and morons that want to gate keep Sonic from the real fans and Ian Flynn, I don't hate him but I can say I don't like his style of writing, it just makes all my favorite characters feel like one dimensional and watered down. yet when someone brings it up suddenly we get attacked. I was even harassed on a live stream while watching someone over saying I enjoyed a Sonic game, I love and will always enjoy Sonic games but I stopped even trying to be around any large group of "Fans" because of this. Amy Rose is my favorite character because she is feminine and not that boring "Better then everyone else because Woman" nonsense. I love the cute hearts as she swings her hammer and her love for baking while she does her best to go after the guy she loves. Lyn Flynn needs to be replaced with someone that respects the material because he clearly doesn't.
ian flynn haters are no better, you have people like randomfox going arround saying flynn should die and that people who enjoy sonic idw are not real sonic fans,
@@exchangediary968 Your point? "Bad people are on both sides" is literally a no brainer. The main thing that is important is how bad it is to have toxic positively support something that, proven with evidence, won't be good for the franchise in the long run.
@ the problem this is Sonic Teams decision, not Flynn not some evil scary none Japanese westerner out to destroy a Japanese creation with his evil agenda lmao, it’s what sonic team believes the international world wants since they encouraged prime boom and other writers to make Amy that way
@@exchangediary968 So the correct response, as to not fall into either camp in your eyes, would be complete indifference, which is a sign of a dying franchise. Under this logic, SEGA would be better off just completely retiring the Sonic brand entirely.
@ I mean, ngl that doesn’t like such a bad idea , Sonic team doesn’t seem
So passionate about the franchise anymore and there only keep going because Sonic sells very well on amurica
I am... conflicted on some things.
I agree Sega is at fault to some degree for not setting guidelines for their characters. As someone who makes characters and writes, this is basics; this is why people have reference sheets for their OCs, movies/shows have their bibles, and rules of where the line is. Look at Disney; they have so many rules when it comes to licensing their characters...and for good reason. They're targeted more towards children and there is a lot they need to consider. Sega, I feel, definitely needs to set those boundaries. Especially after Ian said Shadow would want Sonic to touch him in a specific way. Hold up, i am not knocking the ship, just the comment. Considering the franchise os geared towards a younger demographic, that is not something that should be said about th characters by a *professional working in thr industry*. If that's your headcanon, totally fine but please keep those remarks in adult spaces?
That said, I definitely feel there needs to be a separation of canon and fandom. I understand teasing some ships to keep the fans happy. If Sega is okay with that, cool, but it should not be so...blatant? Keep it to fan service if you absolutely must include it and not your head canons. I've seen this play out with Star vs. The Forces of Evil; do not let the ships drive the plot. This is when Ian should have contacted them and asked an extensive list of questions about th characters.
As a professional, I cannot imagine not wanting them to sign off on something. Even if i am given free rein, it is better to triple check when it comes to creative works. My interpretation of something is not the same as another's...and with this being a franchise that produces products that may go into my portfolio and resume, I would be making absolutely everything I do is to the letter. Which is why I'm so bothered by Ian's comments and behaviors.
And I definitely do not want a bunch if homogenized characters. We have such a vast cast we could do so much with, they all deserve to be their own characters.
That's just my two cents at this moment. I'm sure I'll have more to say if/when I do more extensive research. I'm curious what theyre cooking up but also apprehensive.
I swear that the current cast (atleast for most of the characters, I'd argue) feels like its regressing, becoming very bland and generic. Where as the characters ended up with more traits and personality overtime, now we are going back to square one again.
15:00 This was a really interesting perspective on Sonic and Amy's relationship and by anything it really makes Amy really cool. I feel like that aspect of her character is rarely touched on directly but it's always been there.
23:56 And looking at Amy as the one who can truly bring an end to the series is hilarious and sad.