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One of my players favorite dungeons was one where it was a puzzle in the middle (multiple gemstones to be uncovered and inserted) and a dungeon that circled around the puzzle so their choices were clockwise or counterclockwise... the dungeon wasn't circular in shape but the network revolved around the central puzzle.
SAVED YOU A CLICK: Multiple entrances and exits @ 1:11 The reason why the dungeon was built, its history @ 2:40 Levels (floors) @ 3:30 Loops and linked areas @ 4:46 Verticality, think in three dimensions, use mezzanines and balconies @ 6:13 Secret areas / doors / passageways (consider giving clues) @ 7:15 Variety in room shapes and architecture @ 8:22 Tactically useful areas (chokepoints, bridges, rubble, rough terrain, chest-high-walls, furniture) @ 9:41 Spying opportunities (thin walls, areas that reward stealth, chatty guards, echoes) @ 10:44
The party is hired to explore a dwarven mine that has gone silent. 1. Multiple Entrances: The main gates are barred from the inside and can't be opened, so the party must either find a crevasse or enter through the cemetery (which has a few low-level undead wandering about, and one higher level undead that they should run from). 2. Why was it built?: Dwarves have been mining here for centuries, long before elves or any other race settled in this area. Most believe that it's more cultural than anything else, but the longest lived races (elves and gnomes) know that they craft adamantine weapons and armor here, and their greatest come here to spend their last life energies creating a magical weapon or armor. 3. Levels: The first underground level has temples to the gods that have been improved and expanded on over time. Below that are the workshops and storage spaces, living quarters, and finally the active mine. It would be good to note that these levels were once themselves active parts of the mine, and when the vein was chased to its end the dwarves repurposed the tunnels as they chased other veins. 4. Loops: In order to get around the dwarves put in lifts and slides that would allow them to move people and material to the various levels by the most efficient path possible. As the veins branched out these routes became more elaborate and convoluted. 5. Verticality: Occasionally they would find large deposits, and would mine out large rooms that spanned multiple levels so that they could get at the adamantine from all sides. Balconies look in on these rooms, and they might also be converted into temples of one god or another. 6. Secret Areas: There is a dwarven god of secrets, his followers keeping dark rites meant to hide things from the divination of the other priests. In the higher levels these might be rooms where dwarf children can hide in the case of an emergency, or a rally point for defenders full of additional weapons and potions. 7. Variety in room types: Dwarves like geometrical patterns, but they are also individualists, so no two rooms should be identical. 8. Tactically useful areas: Choke points, bridges, galleries, in the undeveloped portions of the mine these should be natural formations, but elsewhere they should have been planned by the dwarves to defend their homes. Originally these would have been defenses from the wild creatures of the world, or the elves. Lower down (near the bottom of the mine) the defenses should shift from keeping things from coming in from above to keeping things from coming in from below. 9. Spying opportunities: Deep in the Underdark a group of Duergar were following other veins of adamantine up to its source, and eventually their tunnels intersected with the Dwarves digging from the top down. A war between the two groups ensued, and victorious the Duergar took their captives down to their section to use as slave labor. If the party can be stealthy enough they can spy on the duergar and learn what their plans are, were the captives are being held, or about other dangers within the mines.
Number four made me think of a dungeon designed like Chutes and Ladders. Not as linear, mind you, but with nonsensical chute connections and various ladders. For a mine, easily explained as chasing the ore veins.
I have been a dungeon master for 29 years come May, and this is one of the first DMing videos that has taught me something new or something that I had not already previously considered. Excellent dungeoneering advice.
It is indeed. As he talked I thought back to the different adventures early on like keep on the borderlands, a very loopy dungeon, and into the unknown, a very flat you can only go this way kind of dungeon. White BlueMountain also comes to mind. Three paths, but each is a railroad. Then I thought about the ones I made and realized how to dimensional they were back in the day
It's a humbling experiences hearing people who have had more experience in a skill that I've been alive. It's such a cool thing that it's been running for so many years and seems to just be getting more popular as we go along.
I love running wizard’s towers and ‘dungeons’ which are derelict ships, empty towns, ruins, etc. Basically dungeons but with different, more thematic flavor to the locations.
Another aspect of dungeon design to consider is that many dungeons are or were also the living spaces of the creatures that currently or formerly inhabited it. This will dictate layouts of rooms, as well as what you find in them. First, any dungeon space meant for habitation by living, organic creatures (current or former) is going to have rooms dedicated to satisfying their needs. Does your dungeon have a place to prepare or store food? Does your dungeon have general storage, and/or storage for valuables? Does your dungeon have places for creatures to sleep? Does your dungeon have places where social creatures can relax and socialize? Does your dungeon have a privy (bathroom)? Even brute, anti-social monsters may have locations they leave food (or bones), or out-of-the-way places they defecate. And the undead can often be found in places where they formerly lived, even if they aren't using all of its facilities for that purpose. All of the above also give good locations for where PCs may discover enemies at rest or in compromising situations. Second, loops and connecting rooms will naturally be accounted for simply because a space's builders wanted it to be easy for their own people to get where they're going. A privy, for instance, is less than useful if an NPC needs to trek around the length and width of a dungeon just to use it. And both patrols and alerted guards need to be able to get to where they're needed easily. For defensive purposes, things like traps or choke points are going to be localized to certain parts of the dungeon. Before the dungeon opens up again in places convenient for its inhabitants/builders. So when it's said "don't make the dungeon linear", it's for diagetic reasons as well as ones related to game design. Third, wherever possible, give rooms features that PCs can "play with". These can be tactical, such as a chandelier over a mess hall that a PC can swing from, or a stack of barrels a PC can break loose to have them roll over enemies. They could be puzzles to solve to get more loot, like a riddle directing someone to an NPC's secret stash, or a combination lock. Or it could simply be objects or features that will accomplish a certain effect if interacted with, good or bad. Things like an alchemist's lab with a number of unmarked bottles of liquid, or bubbling basins full of same. Or a caged demon, willing to make trades for all sorts of things, including "intangible" ones like memories or one's curiosity. Or a shrine to a god, saint, nature spirit, or eldritch horror, that may provide blessings or even a summoned ally for the right offerings. In these kinds of cases, there are answers that are more or less helpful, but none that are "right". The players can just interact with it, and see what happens.
Another benefit to adding verticality to a dungeon is that it makes old school thieves much more valuable. It's common to criticize thieves in old school D&D for their low skills, but even 1st-level thieves have amazing climbing skills (87% in B/X, for example). When you make your dungeons out of flat levels on graph paper, you deny thieves the ability to use their best class ability. Adding verticality allows them lots of options when it comes to both exploration and combat tactics.
I'd love to watch you do your process with a sample dungeon. Watching you draw things out, telling us your thoughts and ideas for each element, and giving (especially new) DMs a tangible demonstration of the principles at work. Perhaps as an epilogue to this series?
man you don't know how much I appreciate your channel, I've been a DM for 12 years but only now, after a 2 years break from D&D, I'm coming back again to it with a new "conscience", reflecting more about the game and the essential aspetcs of it. your channel really helps me a lot to focus on certain dimensions of the game, it's a great job you do, thanks! also, I'm very interested in vintage and Old School fantasy also, so your videos are really perfect to gain a better knowledge on that
On the topic of 'loops' in a dungeon a helpful analogy can be a suburban street layout; we find sections of interconnected streets typically designed for ease of movement (grids) mixed with long avenues or roads (linear) conforming to the local terrain (literal railroads, bridges, tunnels). If your dungeon has a comparable mix of openly navigable rooms (streets) and occasional railroaded sections (avenues) players will feel a sense of reason or purpose or narrative to the place.
Fantastic! A Time Bandits map on the back wall! Secret areas in the dungeon are great. The main story is only part of the dungeon. Extras can be gained from "side quests" in the dungeon that don't matter for solving the original problem. Leaves things for the players to go back for.
Verticality in a dungeon is also useful for practical reasons. The way I run games, if we're not doing theater of the mind, I'll be drawing the layout of the battlefield of dungeon on butcher paper that comes with a grid pre-printed. It's a very cheap way of making environments. However, one of the things I noticed is that you end up with very small areas of coverage, relatively speaking, since the paper is only so wide. If there are multiple vertical levels, though, I can "cheat in" more dungeon area by having the rooms play out over multiple sheets.
One dungeon that's a good way to start beginning characters off in is a sewers system of the city they start in . You can use monsters such as goblins or kobolds along with giant rats , slimes and other things that would be in a sewer system . That way the players don't have to travel at all to explore a dungeon plus there are many entrances for them to enter in . It's a very simple starting dungeon for the players plus by completing it and driving off or killing the monsters the city can award them a house or warehouse for them to use as a base of operations that isn't out of the ordinary and would make sense along with a small amount of gold something like 500 to be divided between the characters
On the note of Verticality in dungeons (which they are right to note is far too often ignored) I was playing a lot of CONTROL lately, which does an excellent job of adding natural vertical progression to its gameplay, and noted that, as in Morrowind (another master of vertical dungeon design) with it's dreaded Clifracers, the game utilized flying enemies to naturally draw the players attention to these elevated avenues. I think, moving forward as a DM, I will attempt the same, and utilize flying enemies within dungeons to automatically draw the players eye upward to see that grapple point or platform far above.
An excellent video Ben! As an experienced DM (read: old as) I'm about to start creating the first megadungeon I've done in a long time. These tips and tricks have helped me clarify how I can elevate it beyond the mundane.
I’m about to run what I think is the final session, the boss fight, of a dungeon that has taken the players about 8 weeks to get through and they’ve been loving it. It’s only a 3 story dungeon with 3 small mini bosses and a bunch of goobers, and now the final boss. There’s been plot and loot and NPC’s they’ve discovered. I came here looking for advice on running my next one, but I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I’ve covered most of these things with this dungeon without even realising it. I’ll have to do more of the same and try and Improve on what I have already, thanks for the video! (Also the dungeon in question is actually a modern day general hospital that was transported and used as a portal to a shadow realm by a demon, but that’s not important... unless it goes to show you that you can be creative and think outside the box when it comes to the design question of “What is this place?” And theme things around that).
“The level of the dungeon should correspond to the level of the character” dude i never thought about it this way! This will make building my encounter tables so much easier!!
What I'm doing for the short roguelike I'm making, and I might do once in actual D&D for the lols, is put stairways very close to each other (like in the same room) so players can descend as quick as they want. So you can enter the dungeon at lvl 1 and immediately try racing to the bottom floor to get wrecked by dragons and liches etc.
The point about information was a really strong one. I have been building a mega-dungeon for 2 years and I have been gathering the worlds wisdom on the subject. I also am not a fan of too much combat, my dungeon is VERY puzzle heavy. This video has helped it along thank you.
Great content. Dovetails nicely with the Tricks /Traps post. I like to throw in elevators, movable rooms, secret / concealed doors in the floor or ceiling. I’m running a dungeon crawl as party of Dwellers of the Forbidden City with a teleportation room that allows the party to move throughout the underground complex of a step pyramid.
1:13 Multiple entrances/exits...You can also take the Mines of Moria approach where going through the dungeon is a just another choice in how to get from one area on the world map to another. They might choose going through the dungeon as an alternative to other routes because it is a faster path, thought to be safer, or in some other way a better choice than other routes. In game terms, travel from one place to another becomes a dungeon crawl rather than a hex crawl.
Are you going to be covering Dungeons designed with "Theater of the Mind" battles and exploration? Or just the minitures and maps type designs which are the norm I've seen it done before and I have some idea's myself but it's something rarely spoken about
Thank you for making this, I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've been looking for more information on actual dungeon design for months now and there's surprisingly little actually published or made on the subject for how prominent the play space is in a game like Dungeons and Dragons. There's plenty of advice on "making the dungeon a living breathing place" or "giving the dungeon a reason for existing" but there's very little actual information about the craft of laying out a dungeon and making it fun to explore. The actual gameplay effects of the size of rooms, line of sight, where to place encounters and other things that might categorize a topic like level design in a video game is surprisingly almost void from every single dungeon masters guide and a lot of supplemental materials and products. Really the main source of learning available is just reading modules and running sessions. It's incredibly weird to me that the subject hasn't had a more thorough analysis or examination that's more readily available.
This kind of video is just what I need these days. I've been trying to design something I could actually sell as a product, and a dungeon seems like the perfect thing, but it also seems like such a difficult undertaking...
Side note on info gathering - especially for 5e: Don't forget doors. If everything is just an open corridor someone could easily scout the whole dungeon with a familiar. All it takes is even a single door to potentially thwart one. Bear this in mind when making a dungeon because failure to do so can easily lead to a very boring session.
I adore this series you've been covering, and I particularly appreciate this video. You covered some really great points and the concrete examples were particularly inspirational and useful. I've found hiding doors encourages exploration and adding loops or portals develops a more complex map with more opportunities for interconnected regions to interact. Plus some of the most fun my players had was going off script with a vertical climb down the inverted chimney of a fireplace in an upsidedown room I added on a whim...the eldrich being they found down there left an impression.
In my current dungeon I'll allow my players to overhear the goblin guards at the entrance having a cryptic conversation: "Left...right...right...left". Once the players defeat the guards & enter the dungeon they'll see four levers on the wall, or maybe a 2x4 pattern of black & white tiles on the floor. I'm hoping they'll figure out the guards were sharing the daily code to disarm or get past the intruder trap. :-)
I'm curious on your thoughts about a boss lair though. To me, the big bad isn't going to choose a big hideout that's full of ways to get in, because that means they're going to need more minions to defend each of those entrances. I like the idea of multiple entrances for a random dungeon dive, but I don't know that it makes much sense for like a Goblin King to have eight entrances into his stronghold that I'll lead to different places, some of which might be very close to his actual throne room. I think it's okay to have a 1 entrance lair, so long as the layout of the lair itself isn't just one twisty path. Leave lots of options for players to travel down, with false ends, random finds, etc. I wouldn't call it railroading to say that in mind only has one entrance, or a cave only has one opening.
5:54 this (and multiple entrances) is called Jaquaysing the dungeon, pioneered by Jennell Jaquays (rest in peace) - not the 's' in Jaquaysing 4:26 signposting the danger level and letting the players choose how much danger they want to put themselves in is good in theory, but really tames the experience of dungeoneering, which - in my opinion - *should* be dangerous and should be scary and unpredictable. Clearing the tavern basement of rats is the safe option, once the adventurers plum the depths of an ancient ruin, all bets are off. To quote Kirk... "risk is our business"
I watched several of your videos the other day. I can't remember which one talked about putting each room or section on one page, but I've been stalling on prepping Keep on the Borderlands after years away from DMing. Yesterday I started page breaking every section, and the big blank space on undeveloped portions of the module was really freeing. There's blank space for notes as developing on the fly if needed. Thanks.
Or an Anti-Magic Zone at major crossroads within the dungeon. Maybe it was placed by an excessively paranoid wizard. It would keep out several types of divination/conjuration spells out, and combat there would function differently when there's no magic.
This is a great vid with a lot of good points. I really like what you said about if the players are going to make meaningful decisions, then try to give them the info to do so. That is one thing that I am constantly challenging myself to do better for my players...to varying degrees of success, of course. I try to be more cognizant when delivering my descriptions or narratives so that they are presented in a way that they not only set the atmosphere, but are also useful to the players. I try to give them some agency to really explore the space.
this is incredibly informative. I haven't thought about some of these tips before. namely the first one. right off the bat, multiple entrances challenged my idea of how a dungeon should be designed. I'm curious to discuss that topic more.
While Beast is absolutely correct to warn off making "Tree Shaped Dungeons" a suggestion that I might make for new DMs looking to incorporate multiple lessons mentioned here is, take a single aesthetic (ancient temple / abandoned fortress / forgotten sewer) and choose that for your initial Tree Shaped Dungeon, then, put paths between these branches, with short, sections of a different aesthetic, so at to imply additions added over time, modifications made by previous occupants. A rough hewn and erratic passageway that winds it downward into a twisting warren that, hey!, connects the two traditionally carved mine shaft of Path 1 and Path 4 is a pretty neat way to create that network It will intrigue your players simply by defying the aesthetic of the dungeon. Everyone is innately curious where a new path will lead. potential, forward
A good many of your points/issues are resolved by using an outdoor adventure. A partial map to a lost (whatever) has many paths and side routes, and if well done can constitute a mini campaign of itself, but have some (or many) have either open, consealed, or happenstance entrances to Underdark. Then let the Underground portion of the game become a linked, but mostly separate campaign of it's own. Just like the outdoor campaign, the twisting, up, down, sideways and down the river maze of the area needs to have logic.(i.e. How does the dragon get outside to hunt, as nearby inhabitants will quickly disappear through attrition and a sense of self preservation, where do others get their food, weapons, treasures? Are there groups allied with certain others, or enemy groups nearby who likewise have allies. Is there one group willing to pay the Party to kill or drive off a persistent threat they can't (or can't afford the cost in members) do it themselves. The possibilities are endless. And if you've got a yen for having the party work they're way through an Inca Temple motif dungeon, then a side tunnel of Underdark can lead up to a nearby opening, or one in early levels, mid-levels, or it may open at the Temple's nadir, it's lowest part, and now the adventurers must work their way *up.* Use your imagination, but make sure that your imagination remains in the realm of logic.
I see Forbidden Lands back there but no review of the book. This is a book I would love to see your take on. Because Free League has an awesome engine, but it's tough to move on from the B/X clones out there. Specifically Sine Nomine's work. Also, quick plug for that company, be mindful of Sine Nomine's Worlds Without Number Kickstarter popping up soon on October 5th 2020, its gonne be big. edit: also noticed a particular book is missing back there, a certain beautiful black book we all eyeballed a week or so ago. Hmmm... gonna make an announcement soon?
Rich McGee I think the magic system and the death spiral have me really nervous to commit sessions to it. I’ve got players who like d20 and d100 and I’m chomping at the bit for a new system for the freshness of it. But I don’t think Forbidden Lands is it. Still, getting Ben’s take would be super helpful at maybe pushing a short campaign.
I like the idea of players learning information or gathering items in one part of the dungeon that become useful later on in the adventure. The simplest example is players finding a key chain on the dead Orc captain containing the key to unlock the shackles of prisoners found deeper in the dungeon. Or perhaps the Orcs keep a half-starved troll locked up in a cell. Once it's freed, the hungry (and very angry) troll will first go after the mob of Orcs chasing the party. This works especially well if there's a loop or secret door in the dungeon so that the troll and pursuing Orcs cross paths. :-)
Amazing and insightful advice QB. Players need choices and clues, and the dungeon should have at least 2 aspects; what was it originally designed for? And what is it currently being used for?
Could you perhaps make a video on how to map a dungeon as a player during play? As a DM I want to make more introcate dungeons but my players don't know how to map it for themselves and neither do I really.
One trick is to just draw the shape of the room on a white board or something. But only draw one room at a time. Players would have to keep track of how the rooms are connected and related to each other via your description.
Try showing them how to draw a flow chart or point map with lables. It simplifies the map down to the all important connections between rooms and is still useful for navigation. You won't get the detailed geometry with this approach though.
Straight line dungeon idea: the straight line is just the entrance. If you climb up or dive down below, that's where the real dungeon is. Hallways and doorways that split off from the vertical climb or twisting, mazelike corridors and chambers if you climb down below the statting point.
You make a number of interesting points. I do have to disagree to some extent with your points on having multiple entrances into dungeons. If intelligent beings built the space, then every opening into it is a security risk. The fantasy worlds generally used for adventuring, are consistently filled with a variety of aggressive beings, so increasing the number of weak points into a 'community' is not logical. In the event of a natural event opening up access, the beings that live there would take steps to either repair it, or monitor that access point. While it would make sense to have possible escape points, there is nothing that says they must open to the surface. Many fantasy worlds have thriving subterranean cultures. As for giving players some form of 'legend' outside of a dungeon to help them evaluate whether they should enter...no. Some locations will provide passive information about what to expect (bandit camps have patrols, animal dens will have claw marks/signs of occupation, extra-planar portals will likely have unusual behaviour by local fauna. But...it is up to the group to look for these signs, and it is up to the DM to build the location to challenge, but not overwhelm, their group. For the most part, I enjoyed the video, thanks for putting it up.
I would love to see a video of your favorite RPG books and how you use (or have used them) in your own games. I also want to know where you got the sick Sigil poster...
Thanks for taking the time to post this video, always appreciate your insight. We wish you good fortune in the adventures to come! Frederick & Jennifer - Mystic-Realm
I'm going to use a swamp as my dungeon in my coming session. Walls of poisonous gas and thick mud. And lots of stinky monsters before getting to the hag boss they have been chasing.
G’day Questing Beast, just wondering what you have on the wall beside and behind you? And where I could look for such items as well? Haven’t see anything like them here in Australia. Cheers
Do you have any advice on mapping vertical spaces in dungeons? My party is exploring a huge tower that has fallen on its side. The entire map is mostly vertical space. Currently I am using two maps at once. One maps out the floorplan in a traditional way, and the other maps out whatever room or corridor they are in from the perspective of standing on the wall. It's working pretty well, but my players occasionally get disoriented trying to think about the floorplan on its side.
That's a really cool idea! Given the chance I'd probably try to do this as an isometric map with the tower's original floors being drawn as back walls on the map
I don't really play in dungeons when I do RPGs. The word "dungeon," in this context seems to mean, "Dangerous, often claustrophobic and dark nest of challenges and traps where evil beings and treasure are." Is plausibility actually important in a dungeon? To players, or more to DMs?
Depends on the kind of game you want to play, but in general I'd say that plausibility is important. Mostly for players, but for some DMs as well it's more fun to be able to believe your world is realistic.
Patrons vote on what books to review and get to watch videos first: bit.ly/QBPatreon
Keep up with the Old-School RPG scene with the Questing Beast newsletter: bit.ly/Glatisant
Download my RPGs and adventures: bit.ly/QBDTRPG
My favorite RPG-related products: amzn.to/30kfamM
One of my players favorite dungeons was one where it was a puzzle in the middle (multiple gemstones to be uncovered and inserted) and a dungeon that circled around the puzzle so their choices were clockwise or counterclockwise... the dungeon wasn't circular in shape but the network revolved around the central puzzle.
@@RichardKurbis Sounds vaguely familiar......almost as if a Wizard I once knew had been there?
It would be cool if, after doing this series, you made a livestream of yourself making a dungeon, sorta like the ones where you read the DMG
Hear hear. I love your map videos. A dungeon video would be awesome.
I came here to say the same thing!!
Have you watched his videos where he DMs Mazerats?
@@connorshartle3383 where?
@@KartoffelnSalatMitAlles on his channel he has a playlist called Sunday Dungeon Crawl, which has 3 videos of him running games. Check them out!
SAVED YOU A CLICK:
Multiple entrances and exits @ 1:11
The reason why the dungeon was built, its history @ 2:40
Levels (floors) @ 3:30
Loops and linked areas @ 4:46
Verticality, think in three dimensions, use mezzanines and balconies @ 6:13
Secret areas / doors / passageways (consider giving clues) @ 7:15
Variety in room shapes and architecture @ 8:22
Tactically useful areas (chokepoints, bridges, rubble, rough terrain, chest-high-walls, furniture) @ 9:41
Spying opportunities (thin walls, areas that reward stealth, chatty guards, echoes) @ 10:44
The party is hired to explore a dwarven mine that has gone silent.
1. Multiple Entrances: The main gates are barred from the inside and can't be opened, so the party must either find a crevasse or enter through the cemetery (which has a few low-level undead wandering about, and one higher level undead that they should run from).
2. Why was it built?: Dwarves have been mining here for centuries, long before elves or any other race settled in this area. Most believe that it's more cultural than anything else, but the longest lived races (elves and gnomes) know that they craft adamantine weapons and armor here, and their greatest come here to spend their last life energies creating a magical weapon or armor.
3. Levels: The first underground level has temples to the gods that have been improved and expanded on over time. Below that are the workshops and storage spaces, living quarters, and finally the active mine. It would be good to note that these levels were once themselves active parts of the mine, and when the vein was chased to its end the dwarves repurposed the tunnels as they chased other veins.
4. Loops: In order to get around the dwarves put in lifts and slides that would allow them to move people and material to the various levels by the most efficient path possible. As the veins branched out these routes became more elaborate and convoluted.
5. Verticality: Occasionally they would find large deposits, and would mine out large rooms that spanned multiple levels so that they could get at the adamantine from all sides. Balconies look in on these rooms, and they might also be converted into temples of one god or another.
6. Secret Areas: There is a dwarven god of secrets, his followers keeping dark rites meant to hide things from the divination of the other priests. In the higher levels these might be rooms where dwarf children can hide in the case of an emergency, or a rally point for defenders full of additional weapons and potions.
7. Variety in room types: Dwarves like geometrical patterns, but they are also individualists, so no two rooms should be identical.
8. Tactically useful areas: Choke points, bridges, galleries, in the undeveloped portions of the mine these should be natural formations, but elsewhere they should have been planned by the dwarves to defend their homes. Originally these would have been defenses from the wild creatures of the world, or the elves. Lower down (near the bottom of the mine) the defenses should shift from keeping things from coming in from above to keeping things from coming in from below.
9. Spying opportunities: Deep in the Underdark a group of Duergar were following other veins of adamantine up to its source, and eventually their tunnels intersected with the Dwarves digging from the top down. A war between the two groups ensued, and victorious the Duergar took their captives down to their section to use as slave labor. If the party can be stealthy enough they can spy on the duergar and learn what their plans are, were the captives are being held, or about other dangers within the mines.
This is awesome. I might have to use (steal) this! I'm not asking for permission bcs I would do it anyway!
Number four made me think of a dungeon designed like Chutes and Ladders. Not as linear, mind you, but with nonsensical chute connections and various ladders. For a mine, easily explained as chasing the ore veins.
loops allow the monsters to cicle around behind you. DM: What is your marching order. PC mage: I am in the back. DM: (smiles!!)
🤣
Mages in the middle!
I have been a dungeon master for 29 years come May, and this is one of the first DMing videos that has taught me something new or something that I had not already previously considered.
Excellent dungeoneering advice.
It is indeed. As he talked I thought back to the different adventures early on like keep on the borderlands, a very loopy dungeon, and into the unknown, a very flat you can only go this way kind of dungeon. White BlueMountain also comes to mind. Three paths, but each is a railroad. Then I thought about the ones I made and realized how to dimensional they were back in the day
It's a humbling experiences hearing people who have had more experience in a skill that I've been alive.
It's such a cool thing that it's been running for so many years and seems to just be getting more popular as we go along.
Ben -- *whispering* I understood your secret message about having multiple entrances/exits to a dungeon. We're going to get you out of there, man!
Everything is fine here. I'm definitely not trapped in a pocket dimension.
I love running wizard’s towers and ‘dungeons’ which are derelict ships, empty towns, ruins, etc. Basically dungeons but with different, more thematic flavor to the locations.
Another aspect of dungeon design to consider is that many dungeons are or were also the living spaces of the creatures that currently or formerly inhabited it. This will dictate layouts of rooms, as well as what you find in them.
First, any dungeon space meant for habitation by living, organic creatures (current or former) is going to have rooms dedicated to satisfying their needs. Does your dungeon have a place to prepare or store food? Does your dungeon have general storage, and/or storage for valuables? Does your dungeon have places for creatures to sleep? Does your dungeon have places where social creatures can relax and socialize? Does your dungeon have a privy (bathroom)? Even brute, anti-social monsters may have locations they leave food (or bones), or out-of-the-way places they defecate. And the undead can often be found in places where they formerly lived, even if they aren't using all of its facilities for that purpose.
All of the above also give good locations for where PCs may discover enemies at rest or in compromising situations.
Second, loops and connecting rooms will naturally be accounted for simply because a space's builders wanted it to be easy for their own people to get where they're going. A privy, for instance, is less than useful if an NPC needs to trek around the length and width of a dungeon just to use it. And both patrols and alerted guards need to be able to get to where they're needed easily. For defensive purposes, things like traps or choke points are going to be localized to certain parts of the dungeon. Before the dungeon opens up again in places convenient for its inhabitants/builders. So when it's said "don't make the dungeon linear", it's for diagetic reasons as well as ones related to game design.
Third, wherever possible, give rooms features that PCs can "play with". These can be tactical, such as a chandelier over a mess hall that a PC can swing from, or a stack of barrels a PC can break loose to have them roll over enemies. They could be puzzles to solve to get more loot, like a riddle directing someone to an NPC's secret stash, or a combination lock. Or it could simply be objects or features that will accomplish a certain effect if interacted with, good or bad. Things like an alchemist's lab with a number of unmarked bottles of liquid, or bubbling basins full of same. Or a caged demon, willing to make trades for all sorts of things, including "intangible" ones like memories or one's curiosity. Or a shrine to a god, saint, nature spirit, or eldritch horror, that may provide blessings or even a summoned ally for the right offerings. In these kinds of cases, there are answers that are more or less helpful, but none that are "right". The players can just interact with it, and see what happens.
Another benefit to adding verticality to a dungeon is that it makes old school thieves much more valuable. It's common to criticize thieves in old school D&D for their low skills, but even 1st-level thieves have amazing climbing skills (87% in B/X, for example). When you make your dungeons out of flat levels on graph paper, you deny thieves the ability to use their best class ability. Adding verticality allows them lots of options when it comes to both exploration and combat tactics.
I'd love to watch you do your process with a sample dungeon. Watching you draw things out, telling us your thoughts and ideas for each element, and giving (especially new) DMs a tangible demonstration of the principles at work. Perhaps as an epilogue to this series?
man you don't know how much I appreciate your channel, I've been a DM for 12 years but only now, after a 2 years break from D&D, I'm coming back again to it with a new "conscience", reflecting more about the game and the essential aspetcs of it. your channel really helps me a lot to focus on certain dimensions of the game, it's a great job you do, thanks! also, I'm very interested in vintage and Old School fantasy also, so your videos are really perfect to gain a better knowledge on that
On the topic of 'loops' in a dungeon a helpful analogy can be a suburban street layout; we find sections of interconnected streets typically designed for ease of movement (grids) mixed with long avenues or roads (linear) conforming to the local terrain (literal railroads, bridges, tunnels). If your dungeon has a comparable mix of openly navigable rooms (streets) and occasional railroaded sections (avenues) players will feel a sense of reason or purpose or narrative to the place.
Fantastic! A Time Bandits map on the back wall! Secret areas in the dungeon are great. The main story is only part of the dungeon. Extras can be gained from "side quests" in the dungeon that don't matter for solving the original problem. Leaves things for the players to go back for.
Verticality in a dungeon is also useful for practical reasons. The way I run games, if we're not doing theater of the mind, I'll be drawing the layout of the battlefield of dungeon on butcher paper that comes with a grid pre-printed. It's a very cheap way of making environments. However, one of the things I noticed is that you end up with very small areas of coverage, relatively speaking, since the paper is only so wide. If there are multiple vertical levels, though, I can "cheat in" more dungeon area by having the rooms play out over multiple sheets.
One dungeon that's a good way to start beginning characters off in is a sewers system of the city they start in .
You can use monsters such as goblins or kobolds along with giant rats , slimes and other things that would be in a sewer system .
That way the players don't have to travel at all to explore a dungeon plus there are many entrances for them to enter in .
It's a very simple starting dungeon for the players plus by completing it and driving off or killing the monsters the city can award them a house or warehouse for them to use as a base of operations that isn't out of the ordinary and would make sense along with a small amount of gold something like 500 to be divided between the characters
On the note of Verticality in dungeons (which they are right to note is far too often ignored) I was playing a lot of CONTROL lately, which does an excellent job of adding natural vertical progression to its gameplay, and noted that, as in Morrowind (another master of vertical dungeon design) with it's dreaded Clifracers, the game utilized flying enemies to naturally draw the players attention to these elevated avenues.
I think, moving forward as a DM, I will attempt the same, and utilize flying enemies within dungeons to automatically draw the players eye upward to see that grapple point or platform far above.
I'm proud of my secret areas as well. My mentor taught me that you can reuse them if left undiscovered.
An excellent video Ben! As an experienced DM (read: old as) I'm about to start creating the first megadungeon I've done in a long time. These tips and tricks have helped me clarify how I can elevate it beyond the mundane.
I’m about to run what I think is the final session, the boss fight, of a dungeon that has taken the players about 8 weeks to get through and they’ve been loving it.
It’s only a 3 story dungeon with 3 small mini bosses and a bunch of goobers, and now the final boss.
There’s been plot and loot and NPC’s they’ve discovered.
I came here looking for advice on running my next one, but I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I’ve covered most of these things with this dungeon without even realising it.
I’ll have to do more of the same and try and Improve on what I have already, thanks for the video!
(Also the dungeon in question is actually a modern day general hospital that was transported and used as a portal to a shadow realm by a demon, but that’s not important... unless it goes to show you that you can be creative and think outside the box when it comes to the design question of “What is this place?” And theme things around that).
Perfect timing! Creating my megadungeon as I watch
“The level of the dungeon should correspond to the level of the character” dude i never thought about it this way! This will make building my encounter tables so much easier!!
What I'm doing for the short roguelike I'm making, and I might do once in actual D&D for the lols, is put stairways very close to each other (like in the same room) so players can descend as quick as they want. So you can enter the dungeon at lvl 1 and immediately try racing to the bottom floor to get wrecked by dragons and liches etc.
The point about information was a really strong one. I have been building a mega-dungeon for 2 years and I have been gathering the worlds wisdom on the subject. I also am not a fan of too much combat, my dungeon is VERY puzzle heavy. This video has helped it along thank you.
Great content. Dovetails nicely with the Tricks /Traps post. I like to throw in elevators, movable rooms, secret / concealed doors in the floor or ceiling. I’m running a dungeon crawl as party of Dwellers of the Forbidden City with a teleportation room that allows the party to move throughout the underground complex of a step pyramid.
WOW! Just great. Straight to the point and not a word wasted. Thank you.
1:13 Multiple entrances/exits...You can also take the Mines of Moria approach where going through the dungeon is a just another choice in how to get from one area on the world map to another. They might choose going through the dungeon as an alternative to other routes because it is a faster path, thought to be safer, or in some other way a better choice than other routes. In game terms, travel from one place to another becomes a dungeon crawl rather than a hex crawl.
Great episode, Ben!
Are you going to be covering Dungeons designed with "Theater of the Mind" battles and exploration? Or just the minitures and maps type designs which are the norm
I've seen it done before and I have some idea's myself but it's something rarely spoken about
Ooh yeah, a video on pointcrawl dungeons would be excellent!
@@fluff_thorrent Oh that's what they're called! I never heard anyone say it by name before Haha but yes I did mean pointcrawl dungeons
Thank you for making this, I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've been looking for more information on actual dungeon design for months now and there's surprisingly little actually published or made on the subject for how prominent the play space is in a game like Dungeons and Dragons. There's plenty of advice on "making the dungeon a living breathing place" or "giving the dungeon a reason for existing" but there's very little actual information about the craft of laying out a dungeon and making it fun to explore. The actual gameplay effects of the size of rooms, line of sight, where to place encounters and other things that might categorize a topic like level design in a video game is surprisingly almost void from every single dungeon masters guide and a lot of supplemental materials and products. Really the main source of learning available is just reading modules and running sessions. It's incredibly weird to me that the subject hasn't had a more thorough analysis or examination that's more readily available.
This kind of video is just what I need these days. I've been trying to design something I could actually sell as a product, and a dungeon seems like the perfect thing, but it also seems like such a difficult undertaking...
Do it out of love for the game first. If you've got the talent enough that you find people asking about your work, then go for the cash.
I’m subscribed here because I love your reviews, but I’m digging your dungeon design videos too. It’s a nice change of pace.
Side note on info gathering - especially for 5e: Don't forget doors. If everything is just an open corridor someone could easily scout the whole dungeon with a familiar. All it takes is even a single door to potentially thwart one. Bear this in mind when making a dungeon because failure to do so can easily lead to a very boring session.
The Tomb of Nine Gods (Tomb of Annihilation) is an amazing Dungeon with almost all of this features. IMO.
I adore this series you've been covering, and I particularly appreciate this video. You covered some really great points and the concrete examples were particularly inspirational and useful.
I've found hiding doors encourages exploration and adding loops or portals develops a more complex map with more opportunities for interconnected regions to interact. Plus some of the most fun my players had was going off script with a vertical climb down the inverted chimney of a fireplace in an upsidedown room I added on a whim...the eldrich being they found down there left an impression.
In my current dungeon I'll allow my players to overhear the goblin guards at the entrance having a cryptic conversation: "Left...right...right...left".
Once the players defeat the guards & enter the dungeon they'll see four levers on the wall, or maybe a 2x4 pattern of black & white tiles on the floor. I'm hoping they'll figure out the guards were sharing the daily code to disarm or get past the intruder trap. :-)
I'm curious on your thoughts about a boss lair though. To me, the big bad isn't going to choose a big hideout that's full of ways to get in, because that means they're going to need more minions to defend each of those entrances. I like the idea of multiple entrances for a random dungeon dive, but I don't know that it makes much sense for like a Goblin King to have eight entrances into his stronghold that I'll lead to different places, some of which might be very close to his actual throne room.
I think it's okay to have a 1 entrance lair, so long as the layout of the lair itself isn't just one twisty path. Leave lots of options for players to travel down, with false ends, random finds, etc. I wouldn't call it railroading to say that in mind only has one entrance, or a cave only has one opening.
5:54 this (and multiple entrances) is called Jaquaysing the dungeon, pioneered by Jennell Jaquays (rest in peace) - not the 's' in Jaquaysing
4:26 signposting the danger level and letting the players choose how much danger they want to put themselves in is good in theory, but really tames the experience of dungeoneering, which - in my opinion - *should* be dangerous and should be scary and unpredictable. Clearing the tavern basement of rats is the safe option, once the adventurers plum the depths of an ancient ruin, all bets are off. To quote Kirk... "risk is our business"
I watched several of your videos the other day. I can't remember which one talked about putting each room or section on one page, but I've been stalling on prepping Keep on the Borderlands after years away from DMing. Yesterday I started page breaking every section, and the big blank space on undeveloped portions of the module was really freeing. There's blank space for notes as developing on the fly if needed.
Thanks.
remember to put doors against that floating eye spell xD
great content as always Ben :)
Or an Anti-Magic Zone at major crossroads within the dungeon.
Maybe it was placed by an excessively paranoid wizard. It would keep out several types of divination/conjuration spells out, and combat there would function differently when there's no magic.
it would be kinda cool if you could do timestamps when you do these "list" videos so people can skip if some don't apply to them
This is a great vid with a lot of good points. I really like what you said about if the players are going to make meaningful decisions, then try to give them the info to do so. That is one thing that I am constantly challenging myself to do better for my players...to varying degrees of success, of course. I try to be more cognizant when delivering my descriptions or narratives so that they are presented in a way that they not only set the atmosphere, but are also useful to the players. I try to give them some agency to really explore the space.
I'm about to enter the one page dungeon jam, and this has helped me crystallize some ideas i had. thanks!
I just found you4 videos and I think you give the best advice for experienced GMs.
Keep making content I love it
Your videos have always been good and informative, but you videos from the last couple months here have been fantastic.
Having a linear dungeon route is perfect for a one shot, but for a continuous game I agree that your dungeon should be more of a sandbox.
this is incredibly informative. I haven't thought about some of these tips before. namely the first one. right off the bat, multiple entrances challenged my idea of how a dungeon should be designed. I'm curious to discuss that topic more.
While Beast is absolutely correct to warn off making "Tree Shaped Dungeons" a suggestion that I might make for new DMs looking to incorporate multiple lessons mentioned here is, take a single aesthetic (ancient temple / abandoned fortress / forgotten sewer) and choose that for your initial Tree Shaped Dungeon, then, put paths between these branches, with short, sections of a different aesthetic, so at to imply additions added over time, modifications made by previous occupants. A rough hewn and erratic passageway that winds it downward into a twisting warren that, hey!, connects the two traditionally carved mine shaft of Path 1 and Path 4 is a pretty neat way to create that network
It will intrigue your players simply by defying the aesthetic of the dungeon. Everyone is innately curious where a new path will lead. potential,
forward
I very much enjoyed this video. I like the list you shared and agreed with all nine as important.
Excellent video, Ben. I’m loving this series!
You just made my next dungeon much more impressive, and I'm absolutely subscribing. Thank you!
A good many of your points/issues are resolved by using an outdoor adventure. A partial map to a lost (whatever) has many paths and side routes, and if well done can constitute a mini campaign of itself, but have some (or many) have either open, consealed, or happenstance entrances to Underdark. Then let the Underground portion of the game become a linked, but mostly separate campaign of it's own. Just like the outdoor campaign, the twisting, up, down, sideways and down the river maze of the area needs to have logic.(i.e. How does the dragon get outside to hunt, as nearby inhabitants will quickly disappear through attrition and a sense of self preservation, where do others get their food, weapons, treasures? Are there groups allied with certain others, or enemy groups nearby who likewise have allies. Is there one group willing to pay the Party to kill or drive off a persistent threat they can't (or can't afford the cost in members) do it themselves. The possibilities are endless. And if you've got a yen for having the party work they're way through an Inca Temple motif dungeon, then a side tunnel of Underdark can lead up to a nearby opening, or one in early levels, mid-levels, or it may open at the Temple's nadir, it's lowest part, and now the adventurers must work their way *up.*
Use your imagination, but make sure that your imagination remains in the realm of logic.
I see Forbidden Lands back there but no review of the book. This is a book I would love to see your take on. Because Free League has an awesome engine, but it's tough to move on from the B/X clones out there. Specifically Sine Nomine's work. Also, quick plug for that company, be mindful of Sine Nomine's Worlds Without Number Kickstarter popping up soon on October 5th 2020, its gonne be big.
edit: also noticed a particular book is missing back there, a certain beautiful black book we all eyeballed a week or so ago. Hmmm... gonna make an announcement soon?
Rich McGee I think the magic system and the death spiral have me really nervous to commit sessions to it. I’ve got players who like d20 and d100 and I’m chomping at the bit for a new system for the freshness of it. But I don’t think Forbidden Lands is it. Still, getting Ben’s take would be super helpful at maybe pushing a short campaign.
i'm not a DnD fan, but this tips will help me a lot to design dungeons for my mod for Minecraft, Thanks! ♥️
This is great advice, I have been playing for a long time and have not thought about some of these tips. Thanks!
I like the idea of players learning information or gathering items in one part of the dungeon that become useful later on in the adventure.
The simplest example is players finding a key chain on the dead Orc captain containing the key to unlock the shackles of prisoners found deeper in the dungeon.
Or perhaps the Orcs keep a half-starved troll locked up in a cell. Once it's freed, the hungry (and very angry) troll will first go after the mob of Orcs chasing the party. This works especially well if there's a loop or secret door in the dungeon so that the troll and pursuing Orcs cross paths. :-)
The alexandrian is always a good resource ! nice video
Amazing and insightful advice QB. Players need choices and clues, and the dungeon should have at least 2 aspects; what was it originally designed for? And what is it currently being used for?
You should do one of these on the 'five room dungeon'.
That's helped me icnredibly with Dungeon / adventure design.
Could you perhaps make a video on how to map a dungeon as a player during play? As a DM I want to make more introcate dungeons but my players don't know how to map it for themselves and neither do I really.
One trick is to just draw the shape of the room on a white board or something. But only draw one room at a time. Players would have to keep track of how the rooms are connected and related to each other via your description.
Questing Beast that is really great advice!
Try showing them how to draw a flow chart or point map with lables. It simplifies the map down to the all important connections between rooms and is still useful for navigation.
You won't get the detailed geometry with this approach though.
Nice video! Could I suggest that for future videos on the topic you could show visually some examples? A simple drawing could do in most cases
Great video. Lots of great tips. Look forward to checking out more of your Dungeon material.
This is one of your best videos yet!
Straight line dungeon idea: the straight line is just the entrance. If you climb up or dive down below, that's where the real dungeon is. Hallways and doorways that split off from the vertical climb or twisting, mazelike corridors and chambers if you climb down below the statting point.
You make a number of interesting points. I do have to disagree to some extent with your points on having multiple entrances into dungeons. If intelligent beings built the space, then every opening into it is a security risk. The fantasy worlds generally used for adventuring, are consistently filled with a variety of aggressive beings, so increasing the number of weak points into a 'community' is not logical. In the event of a natural event opening up access, the beings that live there would take steps to either repair it, or monitor that access point. While it would make sense to have possible escape points, there is nothing that says they must open to the surface. Many fantasy worlds have thriving subterranean cultures.
As for giving players some form of 'legend' outside of a dungeon to help them evaluate whether they should enter...no. Some locations will provide passive information about what to expect (bandit camps have patrols, animal dens will have claw marks/signs of occupation, extra-planar portals will likely have unusual behaviour by local fauna. But...it is up to the group to look for these signs, and it is up to the DM to build the location to challenge, but not overwhelm, their group.
For the most part, I enjoyed the video, thanks for putting it up.
Thank you very much! This was very helpful for much more than dungeons.
This series is amazing and very informative!
Great video for beginning to advanced DMs.
The Portal Map from Time Bandits
I'm not a dungeoneer but this is very helpful info.
I would love to see a video of your favorite RPG books and how you use (or have used them) in your own games. I also want to know where you got the sick Sigil poster...
Printed it myself from a high res image I found online. If you google around you'll probably find it.
Nicely done. Some really good tips here. Thanks!
Shoot, what is that starmap thing behind you? I know MCDM used it as a prop on the Chain but it’s from something else originally
That is the map from the film Time Bandits (1981). It is a "timeless" classic by genius visionary director Terry Gilliam.
I like your D&D closet
The correct term is "Inner Sanctum" thank you very much
Thanks for taking the time to post this video, always appreciate your insight. We wish you good fortune in the adventures to come! Frederick & Jennifer - Mystic-Realm
I'm going to use a swamp as my dungeon in my coming session. Walls of poisonous gas and thick mud. And lots of stinky monsters before getting to the hag boss they have been chasing.
Could you provide examples of some dungeons that meet these criteria.
Try the Forge of Fury. It meets most, if not all of the QB's criteria.
frpworld.com/downloads/senaryolar/adnd/Forge_of_Fury.pdf
Take a look at the classic dungeon, Keep on the Borderlands for a decent example of connected natural cave system.
Thanks. I'll dig through my boxes and see if I still have a copy of Keep on the Borderland.
@@alfarrarjr thanks. I've never seen anything D&D post 90s and I've just gotten back into B/X, I'll look through that tonight!
Great video and great advice! Thank you, Ben.
love it! your channel inspired me to write a dungeon crawl for DnD adventurers league
Hi Questing Beast! I have to know, where did you get that map on the wall behind your right shoulder? It looks so cool.
G’day Questing Beast, just wondering what you have on the wall beside and behind you? And where I could look for such items as well? Haven’t see anything like them here in Australia.
Cheers
Great advice, thank you!
Where did you get that map of Sigil?
Printed it from a high res image I found online
Love the helpful info, packing my next dungeon with these ideas. :-)
I don't understand multiple entrances. How do they work? What's the benefit of multiple entrances against only one entrance?
Holy Crap, Batman!!!
Where’d you find that giant map of Sigil??
Where can I find that amazing map of Sygil you have there?
Do you have any advice on mapping vertical spaces in dungeons? My party is exploring a huge tower that has fallen on its side. The entire map is mostly vertical space. Currently I am using two maps at once. One maps out the floorplan in a traditional way, and the other maps out whatever room or corridor they are in from the perspective of standing on the wall. It's working pretty well, but my players occasionally get disoriented trying to think about the floorplan on its side.
That's a really cool idea! Given the chance I'd probably try to do this as an isometric map with the tower's original floors being drawn as back walls on the map
This helps so much. Thank you!
Did you ever make more videos in this series?
It's called Xandering the dungeon now 😂
Great vid dude. Brilliant bedrock for starting a dungeon build
New subscriber here. Question where did you get awesome map of Sigil on Wall to your right?
I cannot find any resources on how to log and stock a dungeon. Where can you point me to find that information?
I don't really play in dungeons when I do RPGs. The word "dungeon," in this context seems to mean, "Dangerous, often claustrophobic and dark nest of challenges and traps where evil beings and treasure are." Is plausibility actually important in a dungeon? To players, or more to DMs?
Depends on the kind of game you want to play, but in general I'd say that plausibility is important. Mostly for players, but for some DMs as well it's more fun to be able to believe your world is realistic.
A much needed video. Very simple tips that even fairly accomplished authors sometimes ignore.
The worst poison for a good game is a lame dungeon.
Is that the map from Time Bandits behind you?
Where did you get the Sigil map? So cool
If an area isn’t found, the secret area could be recycled in subsequent dungeons until found.
This is so dark souls haha, love it
Very helpful, thanks !