A cursory review of the drawings by a trained structural engineer (retired) shows four likely initiating defects. 1. The 9 1/2" flat slab did not have any column caps, so it was weak in two way shear in the slab around the columns. The collapse photos showed that the columns under the concrete pool deck punched through in a two way shear type failure. 2. Those columns were also shaved down to a point, which implies that the lateral column ties were either defective or missing. Florida building codes did not likely specify 135 degree hooks at each end of column ties that hooked around the corner reinforcing. Instead they likely allowed no hooks other than a 90 degree hook at the corner reinforcing that then lapped with the same tie. This tie is defective because it is anchored in the concrete cover that can be attacked by salt water in corrosive environments. A defective tie allowed the column tops to narrow into a spear point which could not support the pool slab. 3. The ACI Building Code is the basis of the building codes. It recommends an additional 1 inch of cover to the reinforcing at all columns, beams and slabs than what was provided in the drawings for this building. This recommendation is not in the adopted building code, normally. 4. The "Detail at Dropped Slab" is defective in that the unidentified dowel from the lower slab into the beam portion, HAS NO DEVELOPMENT IN THE BEAM PORTION BY MEANS OF EITHER A STANDARD HOOKED DOWEL OR DEVELOPMENT OF THE STRAIGHT DOWEL INSIDE OF THE BEAM STIRRUPS. This allows the lower slab to have no vertical support at the 12" and 17" steps shown on the plans. Eventually, this defect will fail suddenly and cause a progressive collapse of the pool deck slab, which then can precipitate the 2-way shear failures at the concrete pool slab columns. The catenary pull from a collapsing pool slab can then pull the ground floor columns laterally and cause their failure. Then the remainder of the building above comes down in a textbook progressive collapse. The concrete slab step failed as the lower pool slab broke loose, leading to a 2-way shear failure at the pool deck slab as the weight of the pool deck shifted to the pool deck columns , then catenary action from sagging pool deck steel caused the ground floor columns to fail laterally, leading to the progressive collapse of the building above. Where do I send my bill?
Your explanation seems very sound considering all that I have heard from professionals to date. Why are news sources not interviewing the professionals and reporting these realities? I guess the question begs an answer as much as, or more than, why was this allowed to knowingly take place putting so many unsuspecting buyers at such extreme risk? It seems that no person could feel safe living in these condos. Yet, the financial issues dictating that they continue their occupancy are as critical as the greed that prompted the building of these death traps!
Isn’t it an embarrassment that in today’s age with all the technology available we have buildings collapsing and ancient monuments like the Parthenon over 2,500 years old is still standing?! It withstood earthquakes and an explosion by the Ottomans and there was never a 40 year inspection. It would serve the public better if they started using better materials to build buildings and houses!
@Rush__Man A key role in the collapse is that the columns supporting the building were also tied into the pool deck. The pool deck was heavily damaged and had developed shear planes due to degradation and possibly questionable construction decisions. When the pool deck collapsed, since it was tied into the building's support columns, that collapse damaged these columns. The design of the multi-story building opted for a flat slab design that left out support beams in order to increase the number of stories in the building while meeting local building code restrictions on building height. They chose a weaker design more vulnerable to collapse because they wanted to maximize the number of residents possible under 1980 building code in Miami-Dade. If CTS had support beams between columns, it would have been far more resistant to a total collapse in the event of a pool deck collapse.
100% correct. We invented the train/rail system and we have the worst rail system of any any industrialized nation by far and our infrastructure is falling apart. Here are a few world real facts many are missing-I live in South Florida there are hundreds of these buildings are built about the same time in 80s with only minimal maintenance and inspections if any. Palm Beach county where i live only requires initial build inspection-that is is about to change. Another real fact-The bulk of these built in the 80s were funded in part or completely by cartel money -yes it is real here, everyone knew where this money came and all were making such huge profits they looked they other way, took shorts cuts at all levels this is not a secret. This building is a wake up and tip of the iceberg as they say, since this posting several buildings have been evacuated and may be torn down.
@Rush__Man Fair question for sure. Its highly visible now and for the most part anyone who had anything to do with building/construction/sign offs are long gone. Now there are real structural engineers being brought in from outside of Florida specifically for those reasons and more, already they have evacuated multiple high rise buildings built in the same time frame and starting taking sample of the cement, xrays you name it. One of the buildings they inspected for less than a half hour called for immediate evac, they let the residence back in yesterday for 15 min only to get personal things-probably a nice gesture before its torn down? The issues are real and will require wholesale changes in building codes/inspections/recertifications/HOA/ ETC all of it. Some countries like the one i live only require initial inspections and nothing else-that will change for sure
@Rush__Man It's the FIRST one to fall. Others will follow if not inspected on a regular basis. It should also be required that such inspections be documented and held in the public record.
I must admit, I was very ignorant about building construction before news about the Surfside condo collapse. I used to think that after a concrete and steel building was built, it would remain standing FOREVER if it was built correctly from the start. I had no idea that buildings start to structurally break down over time. But I guess I should've figured that since anything which is manmade isn't permanent. I suspect there were a number of factors that caused that building collapse in Surfside. First, I suspect there were FLAWS in the building's construction back in 1981. I've heard news reports that say there wasn't enough reinforced steel within the concrete 'skin' of the building. Now THAT definitely would be categorized as a 'construction flaw', right? I also heard that the building was SINKING, which also could've been a factor in the collapse. The underground garage of that building was in AWFUL DISREPAIR too! The ceiling in the garage looked like it was about to cave in at any moment! According to the reports that I've heard, the collapse started in the underground garage.
The floating cars was the least of their worries. The primary issue is that the pool deck and pool deck planters had a waterproof membrane that failed a long time ago, the as-built structure is missing rebar that was indicated in the as-designed drawings, the above-ground parking spaces adjacent to the pool deck had absolutely zero waterproofing under the stamped concrete surface, and previous repair attempts to the structural slab using epoxy likely caused water to be trapped between the failed waterproofing and epoxy-sealed slab. Even the design of the roof drainage system placed scuppers directly above planters between the pool deck and building. Those planters had failed waterproofing membranes and the drainage system had a history of clogs and failures. When it would rain hard, water would pour onto these planters, which would hold that water for extended periods of time, drastically increasing the degradation of surrounding concrete and reinforcing steel bars. Water intrusion in the parking garage was so bad that residents wedged corrugated roofing panels between the pipes and the ceiling of the garage to try to diver water pouring through the slab away from their parking space. I noted at least 9 roofing panels in the short video recorded a year ago. Champlain South was yet another example of why flat slab designs, particularly ones with horrible waterproofing and pool decks that tie into support columns for the adjacent building, are a horrible design choice for this use case and environment. Punch shear of the deck cascading into a partial collapse of the pool deck and building. Little to no redundancy in the design, an as-built structure that routinely deviated from the original design, built on an unstable reclaimed wetland, and deferred maintenance that went on for decades.
Does the design take into consideration that owners may update the units with marble, tile, etc? Do these upgrades add to the stress on the structure? Some condo buildings won't allow a tile floor to be installed, too heavy, for example.
That maintenance guy's statement is a little hard to believe. The maintenance crew wouldn't be there 24/7 to pump 1 or 2 feet of water out of the garage - so I think it would have been a big issue with homeowners and would have been addressed or something of major concern they were talking about. But I don't believe the 2018 report talked about a seawater problem.
I think that's more of an apples to oranges comparison perhaps? Not an expert myself of course but I would think that the 1700s buildings were not concrete and rebar construction which seems to have this very particular failure mode (i.e. rusting of rebar causing concrete to fail). The 1700s buildings were probably made from wood? They've also probably been maintained/renovated many times over the years, the surfside condo was still fairly "new" and so no major restoration/maintenance work seems to have been done on it. Not to mention the fact that the 1700s buildings you're referring to are probably not 13 stories tall with a parking garage underneath?
@@PalmliX There was another collapse in New Orleans of the hard rock cafe a new building project. Perhaps we need to return to the old ways of doing things.
Champlain Toers South was a flat slab design that frequently deviated from the original design, had failed waterproofing that caused significant damage to the concrete and rebar, it was built on a reclaimed wetland that caused the building to sink 2mm per year, and previous repair attempts to address cracking in the structural slab above the garage resulted in accelerated concrete decay and exponential expansion of cracking and rebar corrosion. On top of all of this, some areas adjacent to the collapsed pool deck had zero waterproofing above the slab and showing signs of major cracking for years and nothing was done about it. The building itself used a flat slab design that specifically eliminated support beams between columns. Why did they do that? Because support beams require more vertical space between floors. The more space between floors means that there are fewer units to sell to people without exceeding local height limits. By skipping support beams, they can have more floors for a given building code height limit. The downside of not having these support beams is that the structure is far less stable and able to resist collapse if a column in the parking garage sustains damage. The decision to tie the pool deck into the building's support columns was also a bad idea, likely chosen to save money by using the building's support columns to carry part of the load of the deck instead of having to add additional pilings and columns to support the perimeter of the pool deck.
@@communitysolutionspro1520 Sacrifice a child and bury it in the foundation? Though I think the mob did something similar throughout the 20th century...
Who is responsible for the inspection during construction to make sure the correct rebar was used, correct concrete cover over the rebar, correct strength of concrete, etc.?
Apparently the engineer said the inspection by Professional Engineers was only mandated in 1984. So anything before that would be up to owners/developers really.
As did heavy concrete pavers on a 4" mortar bed all over the pool deck. And new planter boxes that were not on the 1979 plan, and new large palm tree pots (where the palm trees had been curiously removed). Also, all the balconies had owner-installed tile floors where apparently the other towers disallow that practice. It seems to me that those could add up as well. The the controlled demolition and excavated/pile driven pit next door could have loosened the already bad soil, making the distribution of all the extra weight even less ideal. But the most unfortunate part truly is that they were too cheap to give the tower portion its own independent support system instead of tying all together with the pool deck/garage ceiling.
I would say they added more parking spots along with stamped concrete, 2017 photos show blacktop. You had cars parked past the larger columns four of them cars were parked on the pool deck. I say that's where it failed first , they also took samples in that area.
I am NO engineer. Someone compared the height of this building to the sister building and they were the same BUT the collapsed building had a penthouse - the other did not. Maybe they dug too deep to accommodate the parking and still stay within height ordinance? By digging to deep that close to ocean, you could hit water. I think.
The only paradigm shift that's going to come out of this is that they will demolish the older, smaller buildings under the guise of being unsafe. They will then build taller, more expensive buildings. One condo in the new buildings will cost almost as much as the entire Champlain Towers. Follow the money.
It was designed with sufficient sloping and drains per the architect drawings on the Surfside website. Do we know that the pavers project isn't what screwed up the deck drainage?
Wow! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS SEGMENT!!!🙏🙏🙏. Very Enlightening!!!! Appreciate it😍. And GOD Bless you😍. Prayers for ALL the FAMILIES/LOVED ones Impacted by this Devastating Event in Surfside, Fl.🙏🙏🙏
I think that the burden of timeliness ought to be placed on whoever manages the building by the government instead because otherwise that time span will held against the engineer's license, although I do think that there ought to be engineers who help the government decide what it means to say "in a timely fashion." I just wouldn't want it to be held against an engineer because, if the building greatly outlasts when they say it has to be repaired by, people will stop taking it seriously but, if it collapses earlier, even if it's the result of something the engineer couldn't possibly see, that will likely cause them to lose their engineering license. That's a lot of burden to be put on someone who is trying to make sure that a building is sound and hopefully doing so in all good conscience. I'm not an engineer but I remember by days working on the ambulance where I could be sued for medical malpractice like a doctor but was only getting paid a few dollars over the minimum wage to incur that risk.
Insurance does NOT cover maintenance. Insurance companies perform their own inspections in most cases, too and they issue recommendations which the association needs to comply with with 30 days or so….
A triangle is stiffer than a square or rectangle. It doesn’t look like there was any diagonal (triangular) bracing on the building at all other than internally in the beams and columns. Would diagonal bracing be feasible and add to the structural integrity of buildings like this?
By Leon Wechsler Architect: The one and only reason this building collapsed is lack of concrete beams under the pool deck and the same in the building portion that collapsed. However this will never be brought up in the inquiry, because Structural Engineers are not ready to expose this main reason, because many of them design the same thing in buildings that were not built with post tension cables in the slabs.
The 2018 report was poorly written. It had no summary. The part about major structural damage to the pool deck was the last section of the report. It said “timely manner” instead of saying “need to be fixed by this date”. And don’t say “increase exponentially” when talking to non-engineers.
A deceptive piece of information. The types of spans which surviving Roman concrete is making are not useful for structures (too small). You also would need to see failed Roman works to make a the implied judgement that Roman concrete lasts longer than what we make today. It’s called survivor bias, where you assume the surviving example is typical of the class, when often they aren’t.
Guys-great insight and info-I too am an engineer know all this stuff however you are missing a bigger point which will come up 100%. Hundreds of buildings just like this one were built in 80s with cartel money yes it is real and legit here (i live in South Florida) everyone know where this money was coming from and looked the other way -everyone had their hand out for massive profits-everyone along the path. Guessing in the end sadly they will find the plans submitted and approved differ quite a bit from what was built-nobody who has lived here long enough will be surprised-that stretch along surfside/sunny isle has long been built/run by cartels and over the recent decades all Russians again anyone who lives in that area would know this
Add subsidence, which is unpredictable and really not repairable. For long term. You can tell this is going on by the cracks in garage floor, sidewalks and streets.On the thresholds of the world's greatest geological forces colliding.
Yes that's correct. It also makes a difference how much cement is used in the concrete mixture. The more cement, the less porous the concrete. Chemical reactions within the concrete happen as well. Why maintenance is so important to find these weakening spots and repair them properly right away. Trying to understand it all myself.
Yep the Japanese paint manufacturer Jotun is an expert in protection of concrete structures in the marine environment and they should be called in instead of the general engineers.
Ppl are saying not enough support to hold up the top floor others saying the same thing but added 10 to 15 more floors to that opinion any truth to either of these 2
HAHA I bet you would love a law requiring an engineer inspecting buildings every 5 years or less. I bet you would give a good price on that inspection too. I would love a law requiring someone in my field to conduct a mandated inspection "every 5 years or less". Then again, a state requiring structural inspections "every 5 years or less" for multi-family housing structures would make housing so expensive that it would be yet another contribution to poor families that have nowhere to live because housing complexes are too expensive due to having to pay engineers every few years to walk through and order them to make expensive repairs because the engineer is in a position to have to force trivial repairs to protect their own ass from litigation. Every 5 years is 100% bullshit and you know it. Particularly as building code has improved significantly since 1979-80. Requiring that frequent of an inspection might make sense for very old buildings along the ocean, but advocating for state-wide 5 year inspections is just absurd and an example of engineering consultants trying to do a money-grab while a tragedy is fresh in the minds of Floridians.
A cursory review of the drawings by a trained structural engineer (retired) shows four likely initiating defects. 1. The 9 1/2" flat slab did not have any column caps, so it was weak in two way shear in the slab around the columns. The collapse photos showed that the columns under the concrete pool deck punched through in a two way shear type failure. 2. Those columns were also shaved down to a point, which implies that the lateral column ties were either defective or missing. Florida building codes did not likely specify 135 degree hooks at each end of column ties that hooked around the corner reinforcing. Instead they likely allowed no hooks other than a 90 degree hook at the corner reinforcing that then lapped with the same tie. This tie is defective because it is anchored in the concrete cover that can be attacked by salt water in corrosive environments. A defective tie allowed the column tops to narrow into a spear point which could not support the pool slab. 3. The ACI Building Code is the basis of the building codes. It recommends an additional 1 inch of cover to the reinforcing at all columns, beams and slabs than what was provided in the drawings for this building. This recommendation is not in the adopted building code, normally. 4. The "Detail at Dropped Slab" is defective in that the unidentified dowel from the lower slab into the beam portion, HAS NO DEVELOPMENT IN THE BEAM PORTION BY MEANS OF EITHER A STANDARD HOOKED DOWEL OR DEVELOPMENT OF THE STRAIGHT DOWEL INSIDE OF THE BEAM STIRRUPS. This allows the lower slab to have no vertical support at the 12" and 17" steps shown on the plans. Eventually, this defect will fail suddenly and cause a progressive collapse of the pool deck slab, which then can precipitate the 2-way shear failures at the concrete pool slab columns. The catenary pull from a collapsing pool slab can then pull the ground floor columns laterally and cause their failure. Then the remainder of the building above comes down in a textbook progressive collapse. The concrete slab step failed as the lower pool slab broke loose, leading to a 2-way shear failure at the pool deck slab as the weight of the pool deck shifted to the pool deck columns , then catenary action from sagging pool deck steel caused the ground floor columns to fail laterally, leading to the progressive collapse of the building above. Where do I send my bill?
Your explanation seems very sound considering all that I have heard from professionals to date. Why are news sources not interviewing the professionals and reporting these realities? I guess the question begs an answer as much as, or more than, why was this allowed to knowingly take place putting so many unsuspecting buyers at such extreme risk? It seems that no person could feel safe living in these condos. Yet, the financial issues dictating that they continue their occupancy are as critical as the greed that prompted the building of these death traps!
@@deniseconnors8124 so it was a lemon from the start.
Isn’t it an embarrassment that in today’s age with all the technology available we have buildings collapsing and ancient monuments like the Parthenon over 2,500 years old is still standing?! It withstood earthquakes and an explosion by the Ottomans and there was never a 40 year inspection. It would serve the public better if they started using better materials to build buildings and houses!
@Rush__Man A key role in the collapse is that the columns supporting the building were also tied into the pool deck. The pool deck was heavily damaged and had developed shear planes due to degradation and possibly questionable construction decisions. When the pool deck collapsed, since it was tied into the building's support columns, that collapse damaged these columns. The design of the multi-story building opted for a flat slab design that left out support beams in order to increase the number of stories in the building while meeting local building code restrictions on building height. They chose a weaker design more vulnerable to collapse because they wanted to maximize the number of residents possible under 1980 building code in Miami-Dade. If CTS had support beams between columns, it would have been far more resistant to a total collapse in the event of a pool deck collapse.
100% correct. We invented the train/rail system and we have the worst rail system of any any industrialized nation by far and our infrastructure is falling apart. Here are a few world real facts many are missing-I live in South Florida there are hundreds of these buildings are built about the same time in 80s with only minimal maintenance and inspections if any. Palm Beach county where i live only requires initial build inspection-that is is about to change. Another real fact-The bulk of these built in the 80s were funded in part or completely by cartel money -yes it is real here, everyone knew where this money came and all were making such huge profits they looked they other way, took shorts cuts at all levels this is not a secret. This building is a wake up and tip of the iceberg as they say, since this posting several buildings have been evacuated and may be torn down.
@Rush__Man Fair question for sure. Its highly visible now and for the most part anyone who had anything to do with building/construction/sign offs are long gone. Now there are real structural engineers being brought in from outside of Florida specifically for those reasons and more, already they have evacuated multiple high rise buildings built in the same time frame and starting taking sample of the cement, xrays you name it. One of the buildings they inspected for less than a half hour called for immediate evac, they let the residence back in yesterday for 15 min only to get personal things-probably a nice gesture before its torn down? The issues are real and will require wholesale changes in building codes/inspections/recertifications/HOA/ ETC all of it. Some countries like the one i live only require initial inspections and nothing else-that will change for sure
@Rush__Man It's the FIRST one to fall. Others will follow if not inspected on a regular basis. It should also be required that such inspections be documented and held in the public record.
The Parthenon is a masonry structure that originally had a wooden roof.
The Pantheon in Rome is however concrete…
I must admit, I was very ignorant about building construction before news about the Surfside condo collapse. I used to think that after a concrete and steel building was built, it would remain standing FOREVER if it was built correctly from the start. I had no idea that buildings start to structurally break down over time. But I guess I should've figured that since anything which is manmade isn't permanent. I suspect there were a number of factors that caused that building collapse in Surfside. First, I suspect there were FLAWS in the building's construction back in 1981. I've heard news reports that say there wasn't enough reinforced steel within the concrete 'skin' of the building. Now THAT definitely would be categorized as a 'construction flaw', right? I also heard that the building was SINKING, which also could've been a factor in the collapse. The underground garage of that building was in AWFUL DISREPAIR too! The ceiling in the garage looked like it was about to cave in at any moment! According to the reports that I've heard, the collapse started in the underground garage.
Cars would be floating in the garage due to seawater seeping in from the high tides.
40 years of that was never rectified.
Excellent point. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this critical issue.
The floating cars was the least of their worries. The primary issue is that the pool deck and pool deck planters had a waterproof membrane that failed a long time ago, the as-built structure is missing rebar that was indicated in the as-designed drawings, the above-ground parking spaces adjacent to the pool deck had absolutely zero waterproofing under the stamped concrete surface, and previous repair attempts to the structural slab using epoxy likely caused water to be trapped between the failed waterproofing and epoxy-sealed slab. Even the design of the roof drainage system placed scuppers directly above planters between the pool deck and building. Those planters had failed waterproofing membranes and the drainage system had a history of clogs and failures. When it would rain hard, water would pour onto these planters, which would hold that water for extended periods of time, drastically increasing the degradation of surrounding concrete and reinforcing steel bars. Water intrusion in the parking garage was so bad that residents wedged corrugated roofing panels between the pipes and the ceiling of the garage to try to diver water pouring through the slab away from their parking space. I noted at least 9 roofing panels in the short video recorded a year ago. Champlain South was yet another example of why flat slab designs, particularly ones with horrible waterproofing and pool decks that tie into support columns for the adjacent building, are a horrible design choice for this use case and environment. Punch shear of the deck cascading into a partial collapse of the pool deck and building. Little to no redundancy in the design, an as-built structure that routinely deviated from the original design, built on an unstable reclaimed wetland, and deferred maintenance that went on for decades.
Does the design take into consideration that owners may update the units with marble, tile, etc? Do these upgrades add to the stress on the structure? Some condo buildings won't allow a tile floor to be installed, too heavy, for example.
That maintenance guy's statement is a little hard to believe. The maintenance crew wouldn't be there 24/7 to pump 1 or 2 feet of water out of the garage - so I think it would have been a big issue with homeowners and would have been addressed or something of major concern they were talking about. But I don't believe the 2018 report talked about a seawater problem.
We have buildings in New Orleans built in the 1700s been through several severe hurricanes. What’s different in the way building are built these days?
I think that's more of an apples to oranges comparison perhaps? Not an expert myself of course but I would think that the 1700s buildings were not concrete and rebar construction which seems to have this very particular failure mode (i.e. rusting of rebar causing concrete to fail). The 1700s buildings were probably made from wood? They've also probably been maintained/renovated many times over the years, the surfside condo was still fairly "new" and so no major restoration/maintenance work seems to have been done on it. Not to mention the fact that the 1700s buildings you're referring to are probably not 13 stories tall with a parking garage underneath?
@@PalmliX There was another collapse in New Orleans of the hard rock cafe a new building project. Perhaps we need to return to the old ways of doing things.
Champlain Toers South was a flat slab design that frequently deviated from the original design, had failed waterproofing that caused significant damage to the concrete and rebar, it was built on a reclaimed wetland that caused the building to sink 2mm per year, and previous repair attempts to address cracking in the structural slab above the garage resulted in accelerated concrete decay and exponential expansion of cracking and rebar corrosion. On top of all of this, some areas adjacent to the collapsed pool deck had zero waterproofing above the slab and showing signs of major cracking for years and nothing was done about it. The building itself used a flat slab design that specifically eliminated support beams between columns. Why did they do that? Because support beams require more vertical space between floors. The more space between floors means that there are fewer units to sell to people without exceeding local height limits. By skipping support beams, they can have more floors for a given building code height limit. The downside of not having these support beams is that the structure is far less stable and able to resist collapse if a column in the parking garage sustains damage. The decision to tie the pool deck into the building's support columns was also a bad idea, likely chosen to save money by using the building's support columns to carry part of the load of the deck instead of having to add additional pilings and columns to support the perimeter of the pool deck.
@@communitysolutionspro1520 The hard rock hotel in Louisiana collapsed for completely unrelated reasons.
@@communitysolutionspro1520 Sacrifice a child and bury it in the foundation?
Though I think the mob did something similar throughout the 20th century...
Congratulations from Portugal. Many kudus for your videos and interviews. Many new insights and points of view deserving attention.
Who is responsible for the inspection during construction to make sure the correct rebar was used, correct concrete cover over the rebar, correct strength of concrete, etc.?
Apparently the engineer said the inspection by Professional Engineers was only mandated in 1984. So anything before that would be up to owners/developers really.
The Penthouse was not in the original design. That added enormous weight to undersized columns.
As did heavy concrete pavers on a 4" mortar bed all over the pool deck. And new planter boxes that were not on the 1979 plan, and new large palm tree pots (where the palm trees had been curiously removed). Also, all the balconies had owner-installed tile floors where apparently the other towers disallow that practice. It seems to me that those could add up as well. The the controlled demolition and excavated/pile driven pit next door could have loosened the already bad soil, making the distribution of all the extra weight even less ideal. But the most unfortunate part truly is that they were too cheap to give the tower portion its own independent support system instead of tying all together with the pool deck/garage ceiling.
I would say they added more parking spots along with stamped concrete, 2017 photos show blacktop.
You had cars parked past the larger columns four of them cars were parked on the pool deck. I say that's where it failed first , they also took samples in that area.
There is a freakin lake where the building stood.. how is that possible?
Right? Looks to be sinkhole
I am NO engineer. Someone compared the height of this building to the sister building and they were the same BUT the collapsed building had a penthouse - the other did not. Maybe they dug too deep to accommodate the parking and still stay within height ordinance? By digging to deep that close to ocean, you could hit water. I think.
The only paradigm shift that's going to come out of this is that they will demolish the older, smaller buildings under the guise of being unsafe. They will then build taller, more expensive buildings. One condo in the new buildings will cost almost as much as the entire Champlain Towers. Follow the money.
It appears to me that half the rebar was omitted during construction also positive sloping of the exposed roof of the parking garage was not obtained.
It was designed with sufficient sloping and drains per the architect drawings on the Surfside website. Do we know that the pavers project isn't what screwed up the deck drainage?
Quick question is there any sort of mandatory reporting requirements in situations like this?
Wow! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS SEGMENT!!!🙏🙏🙏. Very Enlightening!!!! Appreciate it😍. And GOD Bless you😍. Prayers for ALL the FAMILIES/LOVED ones Impacted by this Devastating Event in Surfside, Fl.🙏🙏🙏
from now on, condo associations must be in the hands of architects and engineers period
A+++ Discussion!!! Thank You!
Thank you, Mark! We are so glad you found this interview and analysis helpful. Stay tuned for more!
Can you make the name tag banner lager, say take up 90% of the picture!!!!!!!
Engineers should have to state a specific time span not "in a timely fashion" etc
I think that the burden of timeliness ought to be placed on whoever manages the building by the government instead because otherwise that time span will held against the engineer's license, although I do think that there ought to be engineers who help the government decide what it means to say "in a timely fashion." I just wouldn't want it to be held against an engineer because, if the building greatly outlasts when they say it has to be repaired by, people will stop taking it seriously but, if it collapses earlier, even if it's the result of something the engineer couldn't possibly see, that will likely cause them to lose their engineering license. That's a lot of burden to be put on someone who is trying to make sure that a building is sound and hopefully doing so in all good conscience. I'm not an engineer but I remember by days working on the ambulance where I could be sued for medical malpractice like a doctor but was only getting paid a few dollars over the minimum wage to incur that risk.
What?!?! And become responsible?!?!?!
Iou
@@whoever6458 I agree with you BUT... that could create a liability so big that no one will take on the job.
Florida residential condominiums are obligated to do concrete restoration every 7 years
Flimsy construction without enough column support and very few beams. The building fell like a tower made of deck cards.
Let engineers design buildings, and keep the accountants out of it.
I think the engineers goofed on this one
Insurance does NOT cover maintenance. Insurance companies perform their own inspections in most cases, too and they issue recommendations which the association needs to comply with with 30 days or so….
Not complying voids the insurance.
A triangle is stiffer than a square or rectangle. It doesn’t look like there was any diagonal (triangular) bracing on the building at all other than internally in the beams and columns. Would diagonal bracing be feasible and add to the structural integrity of buildings like this?
By Leon Wechsler Architect: The one and only reason this building
collapsed is lack of concrete beams under the pool deck and the same in
the building portion that collapsed. However this will never be brought
up in the inquiry, because Structural Engineers are not ready to expose
this main reason, because many of them design the same thing in
buildings that were not built with post tension cables in the slabs.
The 2018 report was poorly written. It had no summary. The part about major structural damage to the pool deck was the last section of the report. It said “timely manner” instead of saying “need to be fixed by this date”. And don’t say “increase exponentially” when talking to non-engineers.
Romans invented concrete and the Coliseum is still standing (for the most part)
And most of the Coliseum’s concrete has failed… (what’s left is masonry and brickwork). The Pantheon would be a better example…
A deceptive piece of information. The types of spans which surviving Roman concrete is making are not useful for structures (too small). You also would need to see failed Roman works to make a the implied judgement that Roman concrete lasts longer than what we make today.
It’s called survivor bias, where you assume the surviving example is typical of the class, when often they aren’t.
I can’t believe he asked what to do with what was remaining? It didn’t have a choice. The part that was standing is unstable.
Guys-great insight and info-I too am an engineer know all this stuff however you are missing a bigger point which will come up 100%. Hundreds of buildings just like this one were built in 80s with cartel money yes it is real and legit here (i live in South Florida) everyone know where this money was coming from and looked the other way -everyone had their hand out for massive profits-everyone along the path. Guessing in the end sadly they will find the plans submitted and approved differ quite a bit from what was built-nobody who has lived here long enough will be surprised-that stretch along surfside/sunny isle has long been built/run by cartels and over the recent decades all Russians again anyone who lives in that area would know this
I was harassed by the city for a tent in my yard and threatened with a 500$ a day fine how dose something like this happen
Add subsidence, which is unpredictable and really not repairable. For long term. You can tell this is going on by the cracks in garage floor, sidewalks and streets.On the thresholds of the world's greatest geological forces colliding.
How do the chlorides from the salt water "make their way down" to the rebar?
Concrete is porous.
@@s.b.8933 If concrete is porous enough for water to go through then it doesn't provide protection to rebar in places where water can hit it.
Yes that's correct. It also makes a difference how much cement is used in the concrete mixture. The more cement, the less porous the concrete. Chemical reactions within the concrete happen as well. Why maintenance is so important to find these weakening spots and repair them properly right away. Trying to understand it all myself.
Yep the Japanese paint manufacturer Jotun is an expert in protection of concrete structures in the marine environment and they should be called in instead of the general engineers.
Ppl are saying not enough support to hold up the top floor
others saying the same thing but added 10 to 15 more floors to that opinion
any truth to either of these 2
3000ft set back from the high tide mark. All kinds of problems solved!
What about the elevation? And the high tide mark is a moving target (rising).
Bottom line is the Developer cut corners, skirting the maximum design limits of useful service life.
I'd be very reluctant to hire any American lawyer who does not know how to pronounce Champlain. Just saying...
HAHA I bet you would love a law requiring an engineer inspecting buildings every 5 years or less. I bet you would give a good price on that inspection too. I would love a law requiring someone in my field to conduct a mandated inspection "every 5 years or less". Then again, a state requiring structural inspections "every 5 years or less" for multi-family housing structures would make housing so expensive that it would be yet another contribution to poor families that have nowhere to live because housing complexes are too expensive due to having to pay engineers every few years to walk through and order them to make expensive repairs because the engineer is in a position to have to force trivial repairs to protect their own ass from litigation. Every 5 years is 100% bullshit and you know it. Particularly as building code has improved significantly since 1979-80. Requiring that frequent of an inspection might make sense for very old buildings along the ocean, but advocating for state-wide 5 year inspections is just absurd and an example of engineering consultants trying to do a money-grab while a tragedy is fresh in the minds of Floridians.
Gravity
Show the evidence of sea level rise. You just lost all my respect for any opinion from you.
Greed
Weak analysis
Gravity
Gravity