Dr. Cooper can you do a response to Trent Horn’s video that Protestants can’t worship God without the Sacrifice of Mass? He also explicitly targeted Lutherans and Anglicans on this issue.
"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." - Romans 12:1 Roman apologists operate under distorted hermeneutics. For example, the argument rests on the idea that true worship is intrinsically connected to the Eucharist. This is a false theological connection, however, because we see the apostles discuss worship and union with Christ outside of the Eucharist (as in, as innately their own forms and ways if worship, such as living as a "living sacrifice.") But Roman Catholics have constructed numerous theological schemas: such as, all worship is alchemically transmuted by connection to the Eucharist. Such Medieval categories are often behind Roman presuppositions.
“For, from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same, my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 1:11 KJVAAE The Lords word here speaks of no limits to Eucharist. There’s also a problem because RCC don’t use Tables they use Altars. Altars aren’t biblical Paul said “The Lord’s Table”
CCC:1273 Incorporated into the Church *by Baptism,* the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for *Christian religious worship.* (83. *Given once* for all, Baptism *cannot* be repeated. -(the Church officially recognizes Lutheran and Anglican baptism, there is NO official recognition *whatsoever* of the 40k different business enterprises. Unfortunately, when Americans say the word 'Protestant', they use the term incorrectly 99% of the time. They are really speaking in the context of *American Bible-Pagans* - not the authentic Protestant Church which always comes out of 3 European branches (English, Germanic, Scandavian) and their daughter churches worldwide aka 'Mainline Protestant'. American Bible Pagans have nothing at all whatsoever to do with Protestants.
@@AlphaOmega888 Again with the "le 6 million denominations" line. Business enterprises? Remind me which church charged people money to get people out of purgatory?
I started Roman Catholic, became a Baptist (strip it back! Nothing but the gospel!), and am now looking at Lutheranism, or would be if it wasn't liberal in my corner of the world. The best things, IMO: 1) The Law and Gospel distinction 2) The Law and Gospel distinction 3) The Law and Gospel distinction 4) The commitment to follow the scripture and humility to chalk things up to mystery. I affirm election. I affirm that Jesus died for everyone. Those two things are beautiful. 5) An appreciation that lots and lots of things are adiaphora and we don't need to strip back every tradition for the sake of it. 6) The sacraments as God's work. I do struggle with how #5 or indeed the concept of adiaphora works with confessional Lutheranism though, the confessionalism seems to lock specific adiaphora in as non-negotiables. Also baptismal regeneration.
Yes, that can be an issue. I left the Lutheran church. They are too liberal in many aspects mainly concerning how they see the Bible IMHO. I studied theology at a mainstream German university and it was a lot of German higher criticism, the typical stuff that so effectively undermined many people's faith and is used and weaponized to this day to attack the faith and not build it up. That's my main issue with Lutheran theology and how it's taught at university. Once you question the mainstream and read the theologians disagreeing with it, the whole German higher criticism stuff crumbles like a house of card. But it took quite some effort to regain my appreciation for scripture. For years I didn't even read the gospel of John because theologians claimed it has no historical value. Theology in many ways became the downfall of the faith.
Catholics do make the best Lutherans (Martin Luther). I know you'll be a Berean and make sure whatever you hear is in fact Biblically based. Love to have you in with the WELS affiliated or LCMS.
Dr.Jordan Cooper, could you please explain what role the lay people can play or what the laity can do inorder to make our church bodies remain Confessionally Lutheran. Thank you
i fear that being based/trad is just a new faulty foundation many are basing their life on instead of Christ. as soon as being based/trad is no longer the trend, im worried there’s gonna be another wave of “deconstruction” from people who hopped to the next most trad thing and eventually just were too consumed by this denom hopping instead of Christ.
As a Catholic, it's why I've grown to have a dislike of the Orthodox traditions. On every video of someone discussing why they're not orthodox, there will be a million orthobros in the comments explaining how it's the one true church over and over DESPITE the fact that the Orthodox deny both the fillioque and originial sin, both of which are biblical.
@@ScarletPhoenix0 And never, ever mention that they're convictions for going EO are often couched more in the trappings of the liturgy, the "smells and bells", instead of an appreciation for actual EO doctrine even though they constantly harp on how an EO service was so much "more" than their previous generic non-denominational contemporary worshiping congregation. Orthobros are the epitome of the consequences of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Sola Scriptura for me. My Church is in the country and I love the people. Where the Church is located means a lot and this means what the people are like.
Another great video by Dr. Cooper! Thank You. I'm praying for a mighty reformation in the reformed churches to somehow become confessional Lutheran. I know it's a crazy thought, but I can not help desiring this. The fall of Steve Lawson was an extremely significant turning point for me in revealing just how anemic the reformed church is. It doesn't offer sustainable solutions to living life.
Catholics always say, "How do you know your interpretation is right or what gives luther the authority to interpret." Do you have a video answering this?
The issue with the argument is that Catholics have to judge which church is infallible on their own authority, so no matter how far you go back you always have to judge based on yourself
Just respond by this quote by Chrysostom: What then shall we say to the heathen? There comes a heathen and says, "I wish to become a Christian, but I know not whom to join: there is much fighting and faction among you, much confusion: which doctrine am I to choose?" How shall we answer him? "Each of you" (says he) "asserts, 'I speak the truth." No doubt: this is in our favor. For if we told you to be persuaded by arguments, you might well be perplexed: but if we bid you believe the Scriptures, and these are simple and true, the decision is easy for you. If any agree with the Scriptures, he is the Christian; if any fight against them, he is far from this rule." Homily 33 on Acts
Okay, conservative fundamental Baptist here genuinely looking into Lutheranism, when you talk about forgiveness in the church, how does that apply to abuse, sexual and domestic abuse that is? Growing up in the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement, I would say that they got the response to those situations very wrong.
Obviously, this is an extremely touchy subject. First of all, confessional Lutherans believe that Jesus commands us to forgive our neighbor not 7 times but 77 (meaning always) just like the rest of the church. This is so incredibly difficult in the case of abuse. It is possible I think to forgive while still acknowledging the impact those events still have on a person's life and also acknowledging that the consequences of those acts will be severe. It is totally understandable that a kid who was sexually abused by a parent doesn't want to see that parent anymore because the past is too painful. It will obviously be a case by case basis but I believe that forgiveness is possible while still taking the necessary steps to heal. I am no expert on abuse, but that is what I've seen from my conservative Lutheran church body (WELS).
@isaiahhahm81 Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I understand what you're saying, and Baptists also believe that as well. I think I'm wondering more what the Lutheran Church's response to the abuser would be? How would the Lutheran Church handle the person inflicting those abuses?
I'm Reformed and have no disagreements. The title could just as well have been "Why remain a confessional protestant". I guess our traditions have different emphasises on these matters. Q&A 1 of the Heidelberg Catechism addresses our only comfort in life and in death. There, not just justification is emphasised but also providence and the work of the Holy Spirit.
New terms here I haven’t heard before: loud vs quiet (reflective) sanctification. I would like more elaboration on that please. Do Lutherans have a sanctification that is separate from the third use of the law? Do reformed non Lutherans strive for sanctification, but Lutherans practice it without a struggle?
13:58 - This idea of focusing on God's law and our sin has always been a bit of a stumbling block to me with Lutheranism. Is the tendency to focus on God's grace, rather than law and sin, an antinomian error?
My Captain Out of the Light that Dazzles me, Bright as the sun from Pole to Pole, I thank the God I know to be For Christ the Conqueror of my Soul. Since His the sway of circumstance, I would not wince nor cry aloud. Under that rule which men call chance My head with joy is humbly bowed. Beyond this place of sin and tears That Life with Him! And His the Aid, Despite the menace of the years, Keeps, and shall keep me unafraid. I have no fear, though strait the Gate, He cleared from punishment the scroll. Christ is the Master of my fate, Christ is the Captain of my soul. Dorothea Day
Herr Dr Copper haben sie mal die Abhandlung über luther von Laurentius von Brindisi gelesen? Wenn man das liest Dan geht man weg vom Prodestantismus. Oder was meinen Sie dazu? Mich würde auch interessieren was zu den Büchern von Scott Hahn denken? Der ist der bekanntes katholische Apologet in den USA. Gruß aus Deutschland
I desire a denomination to settle down in and spread roots. I'm am tired of oh if you don't do this you will go to hell or God will hate you if you don't kiss the Icon or bow to it I want Christ; I don't want Rome I yearn for Christ; I don't wish to avoid the Orothodox's anathema Human traditions brings superstitions that Void God's promise that God saves us through Christ I desire Christ and through him I don't fear Hell Why should I conform to all the Church denominations while I can go to one Church denomination who loves Christ and has the tradition to stick with him? Why is the individual persucuted within mainline Churches who believe different than the average, while the mainline orthodoxy is focused on individual interpretation of tradition they forget the attention to Christ is the salvation to all our differences and woes
@@P-el4zd I'm not a Lutheran although I'm a big fan of much of what I see there. One of the things I don't like is that while the BoC seems to clearly recognise the category of adiaphora (great!), confessional Lutherans seem to be locked into many such adiaphora and would split from their brothers who agree with them on the Gospel, the sacraments, the church, and so many other things. How do you reconcile vestments being adiaphora with it being mandatory in order to be a Lutheran?
@@pete3397that's mean we and Jesus and the father are one , because we are part of the Trinity if you believe in it, when Jesus said I am in the father and the father in me, like dr cooper understand it that Jesus talking about the Trinity, but in John 17 21 Jesus add us in to the trinity when he said in the verse, I think the Trinity teachings wasn't in the Jesus teaching, my thought 🤔
@@rainman7769 I think I understand your confusion, but I suggest taking a look at some of Pr. Cooper's videos where he discusses theosis and union with God.
Dr. Cooper can you do a response to Trent Horn’s video that Protestants can’t worship God without the Sacrifice of Mass? He also explicitly targeted Lutherans and Anglicans on this issue.
Gavin Ortland made a good response to this, however I agree, Cooper's opinion on this would be great
"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship."
- Romans 12:1
Roman apologists operate under distorted hermeneutics. For example, the argument rests on the idea that true worship is intrinsically connected to the Eucharist. This is a false theological connection, however, because we see the apostles discuss worship and union with Christ outside of the Eucharist (as in, as innately their own forms and ways if worship, such as living as a "living sacrifice.")
But Roman Catholics have constructed numerous theological schemas: such as, all worship is alchemically transmuted by connection to the Eucharist. Such Medieval categories are often behind Roman presuppositions.
“For, from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same, my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.”
Malachi 1:11 KJVAAE
The Lords word here speaks of no limits to Eucharist.
There’s also a problem because RCC don’t use Tables they use Altars.
Altars aren’t biblical Paul said
“The Lord’s Table”
CCC:1273 Incorporated into the Church *by Baptism,* the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for *Christian religious worship.* (83. *Given once* for all, Baptism *cannot* be repeated.
-(the Church officially recognizes Lutheran and Anglican baptism, there is NO official recognition *whatsoever* of the 40k different business enterprises.
Unfortunately, when Americans say the word 'Protestant', they use the term incorrectly 99% of the time. They are really speaking in the context of *American Bible-Pagans* - not the authentic Protestant Church which always comes out of 3 European branches (English, Germanic, Scandavian) and their daughter churches worldwide aka 'Mainline Protestant'. American Bible Pagans have nothing at all whatsoever to do with Protestants.
@@AlphaOmega888 Again with the "le 6 million denominations" line. Business enterprises? Remind me which church charged people money to get people out of purgatory?
Excellent video. I will be remaining Lutheran.
Another great video, Dr. Cooper!
I started Roman Catholic, became a Baptist (strip it back! Nothing but the gospel!), and am now looking at Lutheranism, or would be if it wasn't liberal in my corner of the world.
The best things, IMO:
1) The Law and Gospel distinction
2) The Law and Gospel distinction
3) The Law and Gospel distinction
4) The commitment to follow the scripture and humility to chalk things up to mystery. I affirm election. I affirm that Jesus died for everyone. Those two things are beautiful.
5) An appreciation that lots and lots of things are adiaphora and we don't need to strip back every tradition for the sake of it.
6) The sacraments as God's work.
I do struggle with how #5 or indeed the concept of adiaphora works with confessional Lutheranism though, the confessionalism seems to lock specific adiaphora in as non-negotiables. Also baptismal regeneration.
Yes, that can be an issue. I left the Lutheran church. They are too liberal in many aspects mainly concerning how they see the Bible IMHO. I studied theology at a mainstream German university and it was a lot of German higher criticism, the typical stuff that so effectively undermined many people's faith and is used and weaponized to this day to attack the faith and not build it up. That's my main issue with Lutheran theology and how it's taught at university. Once you question the mainstream and read the theologians disagreeing with it, the whole German higher criticism stuff crumbles like a house of card. But it took quite some effort to regain my appreciation for scripture. For years I didn't even read the gospel of John because theologians claimed it has no historical value. Theology in many ways became the downfall of the faith.
Catholics do make the best Lutherans (Martin Luther). I know you'll be a Berean and make sure whatever you hear is in fact Biblically based. Love to have you in with the WELS affiliated or LCMS.
@ Thank you, if I ever visit the USA I would love to visit your churches.
Thank you Dr. Cooper, I look forward to watching this
Nice work. You have a healthy, Christian attitude to the subjects👍
Dr.Jordan Cooper, could you please explain what role the lay people can play or what the laity can do inorder to make our church bodies remain Confessionally Lutheran.
Thank you
i fear that being based/trad is just a new faulty foundation many are basing their life on instead of Christ. as soon as being based/trad is no longer the trend, im worried there’s gonna be another wave of “deconstruction” from people who hopped to the next most trad thing and eventually just were too consumed by this denom hopping instead of Christ.
As a Catholic, it's why I've grown to have a dislike of the Orthodox traditions.
On every video of someone discussing why they're not orthodox, there will be a million orthobros in the comments explaining how it's the one true church over and over DESPITE the fact that the Orthodox deny both the fillioque and originial sin, both of which are biblical.
This is a trend on young people trying to find a way to power fantasy themselves l.
@@ScarletPhoenix0Now you know how Protestants feel.
@@ScarletPhoenix0 And never, ever mention that they're convictions for going EO are often couched more in the trappings of the liturgy, the "smells and bells", instead of an appreciation for actual EO doctrine even though they constantly harp on how an EO service was so much "more" than their previous generic non-denominational contemporary worshiping congregation. Orthobros are the epitome of the consequences of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Spot on
Excellent video!
Sola Scriptura for me. My Church is in the country and I love the people. Where the Church is located means a lot and this means what the people are like.
Thank you Dr. Cooper
Dr. Cooper I just found out that you are coming to Finland in April, welcome to my home country.
You have a Beautiful country !
Blessings to you !
I as a Lutheran in the, "why be lutheran" video "hmm yes, i agree". In this video "hmm yes, I also agree
I as a Lutheran: "Ah, yes, I agree with your agreement. Quite quite."
Wow. Dr Cooper can preach!
Jordan cooper vid just dropped🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Another great video by Dr. Cooper! Thank You. I'm praying for a mighty reformation in the reformed churches to somehow become confessional Lutheran. I know it's a crazy thought, but I can not help desiring this. The fall of Steve Lawson was an extremely significant turning point for me in revealing just how anemic the reformed church is. It doesn't offer sustainable solutions to living life.
I enjoyed this and the previous one. I work as an organist in an RC church. The sola works cuck is over the top.
Catholics always say, "How do you know your interpretation is right or what gives luther the authority to interpret." Do you have a video answering this?
The issue with the argument is that Catholics have to judge which church is infallible on their own authority, so no matter how far you go back you always have to judge based on yourself
He has done several over the years, and Roman apologists have not really responded to them.
Just respond by this quote by Chrysostom:
What then shall we say to the heathen? There comes a heathen and says, "I wish to become a Christian, but I know not whom to join: there is much fighting and faction among you, much confusion: which doctrine am I to choose?" How shall we answer him? "Each of you" (says he) "asserts, 'I speak the truth." No doubt: this is in our favor.
For if we told you to be persuaded by arguments, you might well be perplexed: but if we bid you believe the Scriptures, and these are simple and true, the decision is easy for you. If any agree with the Scriptures, he is the Christian; if any fight against them, he is far from this rule."
Homily 33 on Acts
@TheFinnishLutheranmic drop
@TheFinnishLutheran One thing Roman Catholics vehemently disagree with is Chrysostom's point that the Scriptures "are simple and true."
Good question.
Please do a video on why passive righteousness doesn't lead to christians being free to sin however much they want
Okay, conservative fundamental Baptist here genuinely looking into Lutheranism, when you talk about forgiveness in the church, how does that apply to abuse, sexual and domestic abuse that is? Growing up in the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement, I would say that they got the response to those situations very wrong.
Obviously, this is an extremely touchy subject. First of all, confessional Lutherans believe that Jesus commands us to forgive our neighbor not 7 times but 77 (meaning always) just like the rest of the church. This is so incredibly difficult in the case of abuse. It is possible I think to forgive while still acknowledging the impact those events still have on a person's life and also acknowledging that the consequences of those acts will be severe. It is totally understandable that a kid who was sexually abused by a parent doesn't want to see that parent anymore because the past is too painful. It will obviously be a case by case basis but I believe that forgiveness is possible while still taking the necessary steps to heal. I am no expert on abuse, but that is what I've seen from my conservative Lutheran church body (WELS).
@isaiahhahm81 Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I understand what you're saying, and Baptists also believe that as well. I think I'm wondering more what the Lutheran Church's response to the abuser would be? How would the Lutheran Church handle the person inflicting those abuses?
Thank you Dr Cooper, could you do a video on Gods love?
@@lisajones7756 How about a multi-part video series on divine love?
@@DrJordanBCooper It would be the "needful" thing to do 😃
@@DrJordanBCooperSounds lovely.
@@DrJordanBCooper I believe it is "needful" 😄
I'm Reformed and have no disagreements. The title could just as well have been "Why remain a confessional protestant".
I guess our traditions have different emphasises on these matters.
Q&A 1 of the Heidelberg Catechism addresses our only comfort in life and in death. There, not just justification is emphasised but also providence and the work of the Holy Spirit.
New terms here I haven’t heard before: loud vs quiet (reflective) sanctification. I would like more elaboration on that please. Do Lutherans have a sanctification that is separate from the third use of the law? Do reformed non Lutherans strive for sanctification, but Lutherans practice it without a struggle?
13:58 - This idea of focusing on God's law and our sin has always been a bit of a stumbling block to me with Lutheranism. Is the tendency to focus on God's grace, rather than law and sin, an antinomian error?
If you divorce grace from its cost, yes. If you don't, then no. Bonhoeffer handles this well.
@@ottovonbaden6353 That is a beautiful response. Thank you!
Pearce or Memorial?
There are many things in common with catholic spirituality
My Captain
Out of the Light that Dazzles me,
Bright as the sun from Pole to Pole,
I thank the God I know to be
For Christ the Conqueror of my Soul.
Since His the sway of circumstance,
I would not wince nor cry aloud.
Under that rule which men call chance
My head with joy is humbly bowed.
Beyond this place of sin and tears
That Life with Him! And His the Aid,
Despite the menace of the years,
Keeps, and shall keep me unafraid.
I have no fear, though strait the Gate,
He cleared from punishment the scroll.
Christ is the Master of my fate,
Christ is the Captain of my soul.
Dorothea Day
Herr Dr Copper haben sie mal die Abhandlung über luther von Laurentius von Brindisi gelesen? Wenn man das liest Dan geht man weg vom Prodestantismus. Oder was meinen Sie dazu? Mich würde auch interessieren was zu den Büchern von Scott Hahn denken? Der ist der bekanntes katholische Apologet in den USA. Gruß aus Deutschland
I desire a denomination to settle down in and spread roots. I'm am tired of oh if you don't do this you will go to hell or God will hate you if you don't kiss the Icon or bow to it
I want Christ; I don't want Rome
I yearn for Christ; I don't wish to avoid the Orothodox's anathema
Human traditions brings superstitions that Void God's promise that God saves us through Christ
I desire Christ and through him I don't fear Hell
Why should I conform to all the Church denominations while I can go to one Church denomination who loves Christ and has the tradition to stick with him?
Why is the individual persucuted within mainline Churches who believe different than the average, while the mainline orthodoxy is focused on individual interpretation of tradition they forget the attention to Christ is the salvation to all our differences and woes
Excellent!
“Righteousifcation”, say it three times quickly. 😂
Lutherans have been so split over Vestments....
No they are not. If they are not wearing vestments they are not confessional Lutherans.
@@P-el4zd I'm not a Lutheran although I'm a big fan of much of what I see there.
One of the things I don't like is that while the BoC seems to clearly recognise the category of adiaphora (great!), confessional Lutherans seem to be locked into many such adiaphora and would split from their brothers who agree with them on the Gospel, the sacraments, the church, and so many other things.
How do you reconcile vestments being adiaphora with it being mandatory in order to be a Lutheran?
No, not really.
How about in jhon 17 21 it destroyed the trinity , explain that
If I were you I would represent your question as an argument so that it is coherent. Quoting a clobber verse is not an argument.
How do you see John 17:21 as "destroying" the Trinity?
@@pete3397that's mean we and Jesus and the father are one , because we are part of the Trinity if you believe in it, when Jesus said I am in the father and the father in me, like dr cooper understand it that Jesus talking about the Trinity, but in John 17 21 Jesus add us in to the trinity when he said in the verse, I think the Trinity teachings wasn't in the Jesus teaching, my thought 🤔
@@rainman7769 I think I understand your confusion, but I suggest taking a look at some of Pr. Cooper's videos where he discusses theosis and union with God.
@pete3397 thanks I will do