They couldn't even double team outside the paint when Jordan played. If lebron was able to go 1 on 1 his whole career his numbers offensively would be of the chat.
New sub here. The Eye test is huge because it actually takes into account things stats don't take into account like hustling for plays, and getting back on defense altering the way opponents play. The fear in the opponents eyes, etc. None of that shows up in stats. Winning is its own category in the analysis. The Eye Test tells you when a player is actively going after rebounds, or if the rebounds are just falling in their lap. The eye test shows you when a player wills his team to victory by doing both the little things or the clutch things. The eye test definitely needs to be a part of any GOAT analysis. Lebron has been resting his body for years. Prior to joining Lakers he wasn't injury prone because he did load manage. He only played one full 82 game season for his whole career now spanning his 21 seasons. MJ played FULL 82 games seasons 9X and he was one game shy of that actually being ten times. Now consider MJ only played 13 seasons. He is credited for 15 seasons, but one season was cut short to 17 games due to foot injury, and the other was returning from retirement with only 18 games left. Combined that is only 35 games, which isn't even a half of a season. So no, those were not actually "seasons" that he played. What is crazy is that MJ won all those championships and accumulated all of his accolades during his 11 seasons with the Bulls. Even if MJ never played for the Wizards, he'd still have all of his accomplishments. Bron has played an additional 10 more seasons, and has had modern medical advantages $1 million a year on his body, private jets never having to fly commercial, and the advantages of super teams. And even with all those advantages and more time he still didn't win as much or accomplish as much as MJ. One of those full 82 game seasons MJ played was his last with the Wizards when he was actually 40 yrs old. For the past two years I keep hearing Bron is 40 yrs old, and I was surprised that the media talking heads and his fans have been lying all this time. Lebron is about to be 39, so no he was not 40 yrs old last year or the year before. The media says it so many times we all start to believe it. Even with 20 seasons behind him, Lebron has only played a full 82 game season once. I remember in an interview Bron saying how hard that was to play a full 82, Right after that season, he suffered his first major injury with his first season with the Lakers. Think about it? MJ not only played 82 game seasons in a much harder to score league. He also participated in dunk contests as well as the allstar games as well. Lebron is not banging through centers or getting hacked to death nightly like MJ. So not buying he needs the rest or the excuse of having his team have to pick up the defensive slack. Instead of stat padding, Bron should be playing defense and score 12-15 points and his Lakers would win more games because other players would have more opportunities to score and get into a rhythm. Instead most of his teammates need to become spot up shooters. The team's morale would be a lot better as well if Lebron played defense because now his team wouldn't struggle having to play 4 on 5 defense all the time.
You also have to remember, Jordan is the only player to lead the top 10 lowest-scoring playoff supporting cast to titles and the only player to go 9 years without losing 3 in a row. That is 626 games without losing 3 in a row. The odds of doing this are 0.000000000166%. But Jordan did it. Still #1 in PER overall and VORP per game despite Wizards years lowering his advance stats.
MJ accomplishing all that while playing 80-82 games a year going 100mph on both ends of the floor is more impressive than a 20yr load managed career with accumulated stats imo...put Lebron in the 80s/90s playing all 82 with the exercise, nutrition, supplement, and medical advancements they had in the 80s/90s with hard tackle/fouls and playing thru injures and let's see how well he does and if he does it for 20yrs...then flip the script and put MJ (even Bird) in todays game with the exercise/medical technology of today in a give me space no-touch easy to the rim game of today and see how much better theyd be...imagine if they fixed Bird's back with 2010-2020 technology/procedures instead of mid 80s procedures...imagine Wilt in a different time/generation
I beg to differ on FT% as not being a valuable statistic. Teams knew that Jordan was an above average FT shooter, so they couldn't just hack him and expect that he was going to miss, especially in the latter stages of games. LeBron shies away from contact at the end of games because he doesn't want to shoot FTs, resulting in him taking half-hearted shots that often end up as misses.
Pay attention to this. This is IMPORTANT. Let’s not forget MJ took took 7 years off from the NBA. 4 years ending as a champion in college first off. Then the time off when he was playing AND TRAINING for baseball between the 3-peats. THEN he comes back and has to get BACK in NBA shape. Now let’s have a longevity/stamina talk. PLUS MJ not missing season games to “rest” 🤦🏽♂️.
@@ryan_lloydmj also has a love if the game clause that allows him to play overseas in the off season where he won chips in overseas tournaments something lebron doesn’t do bcuz he needs to rest,so why do ppl think him playing 21yrs is impressive when he only played 82 games once and mainly played 50+ gam3 seasons?smh
I never understood the LeBron is the GOAT narrative... The dude barely won 2 chips when he should have had at least 3 with that Miami team. If not for Ray Allen he would have left South Beach with not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7 but just 1 ring and everyone would have agreed his stint there was a failure. Then there's the 73-9 Warriors defeat. The "greatest team ever assembled"... I'm sorry but the greatest team ever assembled shouldn't have to complete a 3-1 comeback in their own conference finals... Not to mention Draymond was Draymond that Finals series and Bogut got injured. Did they have an outstanding regular season? Absolutely. But, as the '96 Bulls said, 72-10 don't mean a thing without a ring.
To me that 73-9 season for the warriors is overrated, not saying it isn't a record breaking season but they lost the actual focus of the game....championships, for the Bulls 72-10 season, did they try to break the record? Not really, I have seen those games that they lost in t hat season, some of them are very close within 2~3 points, and most of them Phil has most the starting player on rest already, so if they really cared they could try to win those games and the result could be 75-7 easily in my opinion, but they knew what they want and they stayed focus and won it. The warriors focus too much on breaking the record ( some of those wins are really hard fought ) and that costed them the championship.
2 things I would like to add. 1. About MJ's passing or say, assist, we need to remember MJ played in the triangle offence system, which means the ball gets passed around a lot, therefore it's not easy to get assist in that system. Also I dont know if you know this but MJ did play as a PG in his early years, and for that time duration MJ got 10 TD in 11 games and almost averaged TD for that season. SO for those who say MJ can't or won't pass the ball out is stupid. 2. About his rebound, last time I checked, MJ has more offensive rebound than LBJ who's rebound are mostly defensive rebound, which speak for itself, as a guard MJ has more OR than LBJ who plays as a forward? Let's those two facts sink in.
Another statistic: the number of matches in which they did not have 3 defeats in a row. No player in history has more than 200, except MJ who has ~ 626. What would be the significance? The power to influence the fate of a game.
Yea and u wanna be accurate… that chart shows “all defensive team”…. What it doesn’t say is that all 9 of MJ’s were 1st team selections… all 6 of brons were not 1st team selections
True! MJ being part of 9 1st team al defence teams as well as being defensive player of the year on one occasion, shows that he was a far better defender.
Jordan could have played more years, he just retired the second time cause Bulls ownership wanted to rebuild. He averaged just under 29 ppg his last year in Chicago. Instead of starting over. He just retired.
This is true. It definitely plays a role. I just wouldn't want free throw % to be a major talking point in a GOAT debate. But for sure, it definitely is important as it tests not just your shooting ability, but ability under pressure.
The younger generations do unfortunately suffer from not being around when Jordan was in his prime, I was a teen in highschool at the time. It truly is hard to describe the phenomenon that was Jordan. Global icon, everyone of every corner of the Earth knew who Jordan was, that time wars and terrorism, and dictators ruled the airwaves, planes being hijacked, Gulf War yet literal enemies could sit down and watch a Bulls game. People and countries where basketball is not the number 1 sport, Jordan inspired millions to buy a basketball and hoist up a ring. Everyone became experts, everyone made time to watch the Bulls play and your missus wasn't mad at ya. Everyone was wearing Bulls gear. Jordans became the number 1 most desired product in the world. Grandparent's to little kids knew who he was...insane, crazy and incredible times. Felt like the whole world was in unison and just having a good time.
The eye test is very important. Jordan was better to watch and he got the job done. Real hoop fans are turned off by LeBron barreling to the basket trying to get fouls that he rarely converts at the line and the ratings show it. The eye test was very integral in making the game global so I suggest you watch Jordan’s career from beginning to end so you can understand why it’s so important. All the excuses you make for LeBron is highlighting how soft the current era is and I’m glad that this video points it out without needing to actually say it. And if you have to say that Bron has to rest during his 21st season then he needs to retire because the excuses are laughable now.
LBJ leads in missed layups, turnovers, and soon-to-be missed shots. LBJ never improved on his shooting or ball handling. He plays the same way throughout his entire career. The eye test reveals why the NBA suffered financially and with viewership after Jordan and his competition retired (or got old). Very telling of how Jordan elevated his own sport. He set the standards that no one is living up to, not even Lebronze. The only ones that kept the league alive at the time were Kobe/Shaq, Duncan, Nash, and Nowitzki.
Remember, this video was made before Lebron won the 2020 bubble championship, so it's a few years old. What does that mean? it means that in every single bit of footage showing Lebron being a poor defender he is either YOUNGER or the same age Jordan was in his last year on the Bulls . That season Jordan was MVP and made 1st team all defense. In a lot of those clips he is even much younger than Jordan was that year since some of that footage showed Lebron in a Cavs jersey. The thought of Jordan resting on defense, in a Bulls jersey especially, would never have existed or been accepted by anyone, including his fans.
Jordan is literally the best shot blocking guard that ever lived. 😂 He's still has the record for most blocks in a season by a guard. And he's the only guard with over 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, and he did it twice.
I disagree Bird was a very good defender. He did average 10 rebounds for his career and averaged a block and almost 2 steals a game. He also was on the all defensive team 3 times. Bird's IQ would thrive in the clutch.
@@mannyneva1760 Lmao if Bird wasn't humble he would have set you MFs straight that he is the baddest of all time. That's the problem you don't understand humbleness when the greats talk about the greats.
It's Black Jesus by far. Jordan's skills on both sides of the court, stats and accomplishments have no peer. Even aesthetically, he was beautiful and graceful to watch. Super athletic AND fundamentally sound. We've seen no one like him to this day.
I think LeBron is definitely an all-time great, but I don’t have him in the goat position personally. I think anyone that doesn’t have him in their top 10 is just hating for the sake of hating, I give it to him in the longevity department, he definitely has that over everybody, but that still doesn’t mean in your prime you were better than other people in their prime just because you’re bigger and you are lucky enough not to have an injury. I still would pick Kobe Bryant to lead a basketball team over LeBron James. Especially if there’s a stipulation where I am only allowed to have one other All-Star. LeBron has yet to win a championship with anything less than three All-Stars on the team that won the championship or when you look at what happened in Miami in Los Angeles. In the 2000s LeBron and Kobe were both kind of in the same vote in the middle of that decade. They were the best two players in the league, and they were both on shitty teams. Especially the team Kobe was left with after they went through the rebuild. They didn’t have anyone there. The biggest guy on his team was Kwame Brown and he actually told Kobe one time. “don’t pass me the ball because I’m scared I’ll mess up.” that’s what Kobe was having to deal with. Remember all the Nike commercials with the puppets everyone knew that it was going to be LeBron in the Cavaliers versus Kobe and the Lakers? They ran those commercials for two years. As soon as Kobe just got one more All-Star, not a super team he just got another All-Star who wasn’t a top 75 player, Kobe went to the finals three years in a row and walked away with two championships. LeBron, on the other hand with one other All-Star couldn’t get past the white Howard. And then Kobe and the Lakers beat Dwight Howard in five games for the championship. If you can’t win a championship without team, jumping from super team to super team over and over again and you’re pretty much playing the GM roll in your handpick, your teammates, and you still are having troubles you’re not the goat . That doesn’t mean he isn’t great. LeBron is definitely one of the grades, but we need to stop this narrative of “if you don’t say, LeBron is the best ever then you’re being disrespect.” what kind of Nazi Germany shit is that?
You say it's hating to not have Lebron in the top ten? If your reason for him not being in your top ten includes: cheating the game, such as being allowed to get away with offensive fouls, traveling, & flopping. That's doesn't make one a hater. That's legitimate.
Honestly Lefony(Lebron) isn’t nearly as good as all the media and the NBA Leauge commissioner are so begging Lefony to be!! He really is like #12- #14 on the all time list
Great commentary! DANGERproduction's video should be required viewing for every NBA fan, and should be used as a reference every time the Lebron goat debate is brought up.
Watch a guy get beat up night after night for 3 seasons during the playoffs and see if the eye test matters. Watch the tension build between teams and see a man dominating, putting distance and ending any doubt in a single night. No team today does this.
Be fair to lebron? LOL. Lets really put some more "context" in this. Jordan did the bulk of his stats in 11 years. ELEVENNNNN. One season he broke his foot , came back to play only 17 games. Another season, he came back at the end of the bulls season from leaving baseball. He played only 24 games. So that is TWO season. So add that to the 11 and we are at 13. THEN his two years at washington that are totally underrated ( great video out that covered this) where he played all 82 games one of the seasons in washington and the other didn't get to because of the knee injury. So lets go over that. 11 season, 2 seasons barely played due to injury and late return, and then 2 seasons in washington. He didn't need 21 years LOL. That frame at 5:29 shows what he did in 11 seasonssssssss, since he didn't get a scoring title, defensive title or playoffs when at washington and the other two , well he was a second year player when he broke his foot and the other was coming back from baseball. LOOK at those numbers. Video came out 3 years ago LOL. NOT that long ago. So that is 11 vs 21 seasons. It took both Kobi (rip) and lebron to their 17th seasons to pass jordan on the all time scoring list. Let that sink in. Lebron stacked teams, he switched teams that had a chance at winning championship then dictated who he wanted there. Look who he had in Cleveland , in his prime, for 11 years. What came of it? One championship. Jordan , Magic, Bird, Kobi weren't transient players or needing to stack teams and they were loyal. What has Lebron done in LA? NOTHINGGGG. I've been lucky to see Magic, Bird , Jordan, Kobi and Lebron play. There is no comparison . Magic and Bird battles were great. Lakers and the fast break, Bird and his IQ basketball but Jordan. He was special. Even the home team fans were cheering for him. I could say so much more but ill leave it at that.
While the eye test isn't necessarily anything more than an opinion, when it's backed up by all the previous stats, it lends some weight to the MJ argument.
Stop the garbage that LeFlop James has played for 21 years so he needs to rest his body in defense!!! LeFlop James plays in an era of basketball where the physicality is the equivalent to flag football where Jordan's era was an era of what the men around my age would call "Jungle Ball" and what the gist of "Jungle Ball" is NO BLOOD NO FOUL PERIOD and I never saw a game where Jordan EVER SAT OUT "TO REST"!!! Jordan was quoted by his personal trainer "Jordan felt like if people were going to spend their hard earned money to come out to watch him play then he owed it to his fans and supporter's to bust his butt and give his all so when they left arena they felt like he gave them their money's worth"!!! This comparison of James and Jordan is so damn disrespectful to Jordan and his legacy and it needs to stop!!! James hasn't surpassed Bird, Magic, Kobe or Kareem yet so WHY is he being compared to the man that all of those other players I just named said that Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever!! For me personally I'll take the opinions from Hall of Fame players long before I listen to someone who's closest they ever came to being a NBA player was shooting balls of paper into his trash can in his cubicle like Nick Wright!!!
I have watched them both from beginning to now. Jordan was different, and he is the goat, and it's not even close. I understand when all you know is Lebron, but having watched the NBA for 50+ years and as a Magic Johnson fan and former Laker fan, i understand that MJ was the greatest player I've ever watched.
Lebron: most playoff loses all-time ✔, most committed turnovers all-time ✔, most shots taken all-time (but he's pass 1st?) ✔, most missed shots all-time ✔, only player to be Swept in 3 finals series ✔ 7th worst +/- in NBA finals history -86 ✔ 2nd worst NBA finals record all-time 4-6 ✔ that's not a top 5 player all-time
LeBron takes enough games off through load management so whenever he could be bothered showing up to work he could at least work the whole shift. Considering how much less defence there is to play these days, it should be easy to qualify for having played defence.
Minor nitpick from the video, I almost never hear it pronounced as P-E-R. Its almost always pronounced per like purr And the thing about LeBron resting his body, I mean yeah I can accept that in his Laker years. But he has been known to check out on defense at times for his entire career
I've never heard it being pronounced Purr.. I've always heard it being pronounced P.E.R. whether its from my friends, or from sports shows like Undisputed or First Take.
@@libfit9068Wonder if it depends on the source. I watch channels like Thinking Basketball or podcasts hosted by players like JJ, Gil, and PG that are more like informal conversation. It would make sense that a ESPN show that has a mass audience would spell it out though.
@@ggsimmonds1 I've heard Gil say P.E.R. too.. I've only ever heard them say per if they were mentioning like points per game or something. But I've always heard the analytical metric pronounced P.E.R. even on podcasts.
not playing defense just to save yourself on offense is no excuse! He's leaving his team out to dry to make his stats better on offense? no excuse, LeBron just thinks he's above everyone else and chooses when he wants to play hard and when he doesnt
I honestly don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say free throw percentage wasn’t an important stat to consider lol some games are literally decided by free throws.. it matters bro, trust me🤣
Eye test makes the best judgement. It tells you the quality of how they players does in the cour.t.pfftt Its not even a debate and i will never even pick him over kobe let alone jordan.
I hate when people say he's older has more seasons so needs to rest on defense if he even shows up. TIME TO RETIRE basketball is offense and defense. 2nd thing if u lose by 3 points but ur team missed 7+ free throws if u were better ft% shooter u should have made 4 or 5 u should have won the game.
The only reason why the bronze Peak is so long is because there's nobody guarding him he can just go do whatever and nobody's going to get in his way to me that's not basketball
Mate, I am Aussie and I took up basketball early in 1994 while MJ was playing baseball so he wasn't really an option when I was picking a favourite player. I still have Alonzo Mourning jerseys so that is my bias. MJ is the GOAT and to be honest daylight is 2nd. LeBron's finals appearances without winning proves that LeBron is the best at coming 2nd. Does coming 2nd sound like GOAT behaviour?
The fact that Labron has won a forth title sense this video dosnt matter, when this video was made Bron had already played 5 seasons longer than Mike. Imo Bron could tie Mjs 6 and it still wouldn't matter cuz it took him 20+ years to do what MJ did in 13.
I love watching young people that think leflop is the goat watch this video and see the realization of truth Jordan was an absolute killer he would rip Lebrons heart out and crush his soul!
He didn't mentioned this: Most Turovers Most missed clutch shots Most lost finals Most lost playoff games Most missed FT Most Flopps Most missed 3 Pointers The List goes on and on They changed the "Flopping rules" to avoid Flopping because of this man --> LeFlopp James"
I disagree with the statement of To be fair to Bron on defense. Yeah Hes older but MJ at 40 which is older then Bron is now was still a better defender so that doesnt really work Good video MJ The Goat of course
What do we need scouts for if the eye test isn’t the best way to judge a player and his talent? Stats can lie but your eyes don’t! No we don’t give out excuses about age on defense if you’re going to use longevity as an argument against MJ! In their primes MJ was a better defender than Lebron!
I had to check out another video (in case this comment doesn’t make sense, refer to my comment on your video from 2 days ago 😂) It was 3 minutes long. Oh, this is a total compliment 👉🏻 Ur gonna get accused of sounding like PewDiePie!😂 (I hope I didn’t offend you) I can’t think of a better RUclipsr to sound similar to. Peace ✌🏻
This not even debatable lol Jordan is the Goat 🐐 Lebron not even close Jordan play defense every single game….lebron suck on defense sometimes and he choke Jordan 🐐 Jabbar 2nd Kobe. 🥉 Lebron top ten all time
U try everything to defend lebron lol u lack knowledge of the nba and its players,carrying the ball more doesn’t autautomatically make ur turnover rate higher smh Stockton leads in assists and has less turnovers and more assists than lebron simply bcuz he is a BETTER PASSER lebron is the ONLY player with 5k in turnovers and counting that’s more than even Russell Westbrook,why u think nobody fears lebron but have nightmares just facing mj?oh and EVERY aspect of the game determines who is the greatest,u said lebron is a great scorer but freethrows shouldn’t be counted?FOH
You should have probably waited before you talked on that eye test cuz that's not what he means by it that he's trying to explain it and you're not listening
"lebron is in his 21st season he needs to rest his body"
well he actually stopped playing defense a decade ago. its not something new.
True! Hasn't played any good defense in many years
And also Jordan at 38-40 was still the best defender of his team xD (I mean yeah the wizzards sucked ass but still at least they where young)
😅😅😅😅
The only people who think lebron is the goat aren’t old enough to have watched both.
Facts 👌
Wrong
They couldn't even double team outside the paint when Jordan played. If lebron was able to go 1 on 1 his whole career his numbers offensively would be of the chat.
If lebron was able to hand check as big and strong as he is he would be an even better defender
@@whodatkatt4805uh no u idiot… if u had more dudes in the lane, where Bron scores 75% of his points how the hell would he be better scorer???
Not even a Debate. Bron fans just can't except it
New sub here. The Eye test is huge because it actually takes into account things stats don't take into account like hustling for plays, and getting back on defense altering the way opponents play. The fear in the opponents eyes, etc. None of that shows up in stats. Winning is its own category in the analysis. The Eye Test tells you when a player is actively going after rebounds, or if the rebounds are just falling in their lap. The eye test shows you when a player wills his team to victory by doing both the little things or the clutch things. The eye test definitely needs to be a part of any GOAT analysis.
Lebron has been resting his body for years. Prior to joining Lakers he wasn't injury prone because he did load manage. He only played one full 82 game season for his whole career now spanning his 21 seasons. MJ played FULL 82 games seasons 9X and he was one game shy of that actually being ten times. Now consider MJ only played 13 seasons. He is credited for 15 seasons, but one season was cut short to 17 games due to foot injury, and the other was returning from retirement with only 18 games left. Combined that is only 35 games, which isn't even a half of a season. So no, those were not actually "seasons" that he played. What is crazy is that MJ won all those championships and accumulated all of his accolades during his 11 seasons with the Bulls. Even if MJ never played for the Wizards, he'd still have all of his accomplishments. Bron has played an additional 10 more seasons, and has had modern medical advantages $1 million a year on his body, private jets never having to fly commercial, and the advantages of super teams. And even with all those advantages and more time he still didn't win as much or accomplish as much as MJ.
One of those full 82 game seasons MJ played was his last with the Wizards when he was actually 40 yrs old. For the past two years I keep hearing Bron is 40 yrs old, and I was surprised that the media talking heads and his fans have been lying all this time. Lebron is about to be 39, so no he was not 40 yrs old last year or the year before. The media says it so many times we all start to believe it. Even with 20 seasons behind him, Lebron has only played a full 82 game season once. I remember in an interview Bron saying how hard that was to play a full 82, Right after that season, he suffered his first major injury with his first season with the Lakers. Think about it? MJ not only played 82 game seasons in a much harder to score league. He also participated in dunk contests as well as the allstar games as well.
Lebron is not banging through centers or getting hacked to death nightly like MJ. So not buying he needs the rest or the excuse of having his team have to pick up the defensive slack. Instead of stat padding, Bron should be playing defense and score 12-15 points and his Lakers would win more games because other players would have more opportunities to score and get into a rhythm. Instead most of his teammates need to become spot up shooters. The team's morale would be a lot better as well if Lebron played defense because now his team wouldn't struggle having to play 4 on 5 defense all the time.
You also have to remember, Jordan is the only player to lead the top 10 lowest-scoring playoff supporting cast to titles and the only player to go 9 years without losing 3 in a row. That is 626 games without losing 3 in a row. The odds of doing this are 0.000000000166%. But Jordan did it.
Still #1 in PER overall and VORP per game despite Wizards years lowering his advance stats.
Yes. Jordan's supporting cast was definitely not as strong as Lebron's over his career. #1 in PER and VORP per game is unreal haha
Jokic has the Box +- Average record now but he's not on pace to keep it by the end of his career.
MJ accomplishing all that while playing 80-82 games a year going 100mph on both ends of the floor is more impressive than a 20yr load managed career with accumulated stats imo...put Lebron in the 80s/90s playing all 82 with the exercise, nutrition, supplement, and medical advancements they had in the 80s/90s with hard tackle/fouls and playing thru injures and let's see how well he does and if he does it for 20yrs...then flip the script and put MJ (even Bird) in todays game with the exercise/medical technology of today in a give me space no-touch easy to the rim game of today and see how much better theyd be...imagine if they fixed Bird's back with 2010-2020 technology/procedures instead of mid 80s procedures...imagine Wilt in a different time/generation
I beg to differ on FT% as not being a valuable statistic. Teams knew that Jordan was an above average FT shooter, so they couldn't just hack him and expect that he was going to miss, especially in the latter stages of games. LeBron shies away from contact at the end of games because he doesn't want to shoot FTs, resulting in him taking half-hearted shots that often end up as misses.
Pay attention to this. This is IMPORTANT. Let’s not forget MJ took took 7 years off from the NBA. 4 years ending as a champion in college first off. Then the time off when he was playing AND TRAINING for baseball between the 3-peats. THEN he comes back and has to get BACK in NBA shape. Now let’s have a longevity/stamina talk. PLUS MJ not missing season games to “rest” 🤦🏽♂️.
Good point. MJ played many full 82 Game seasons, something Lebron did only once.
@@ryan_lloydmj also has a love if the game clause that allows him to play overseas in the off season where he won chips in overseas tournaments something lebron doesn’t do bcuz he needs to rest,so why do ppl think him playing 21yrs is impressive when he only played 82 games once and mainly played 50+ gam3 seasons?smh
I never understood the LeBron is the GOAT narrative...
The dude barely won 2 chips when he should have had at least 3 with that Miami team. If not for Ray Allen he would have left South Beach with not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7 but just 1 ring and everyone would have agreed his stint there was a failure.
Then there's the 73-9 Warriors defeat. The "greatest team ever assembled"...
I'm sorry but the greatest team ever assembled shouldn't have to complete a 3-1 comeback in their own conference finals...
Not to mention Draymond was Draymond that Finals series and Bogut got injured.
Did they have an outstanding regular season? Absolutely. But, as the '96 Bulls said, 72-10 don't mean a thing without a ring.
To me that 73-9 season for the warriors is overrated, not saying it isn't a record breaking season but they lost the actual focus of the game....championships, for the Bulls 72-10 season, did they try to break the record? Not really, I have seen those games that they lost in t hat season, some of them are very close within 2~3 points, and most of them Phil has most the starting player on rest already, so if they really cared they could try to win those games and the result could be 75-7 easily in my opinion, but they knew what they want and they stayed focus and won it. The warriors focus too much on breaking the record ( some of those wins are really hard fought ) and that costed them the championship.
16:05 free throw percentage is very important especially in the final two minutes
2 things I would like to add. 1. About MJ's passing or say, assist, we need to remember MJ played in the triangle offence system, which means the ball gets passed around a lot, therefore it's not easy to get assist in that system. Also I dont know if you know this but MJ did play as a PG in his early years, and for that time duration MJ got 10 TD in 11 games and almost averaged TD for that season. SO for those who say MJ can't or won't pass the ball out is stupid. 2. About his rebound, last time I checked, MJ has more offensive rebound than LBJ who's rebound are mostly defensive rebound, which speak for itself, as a guard MJ has more OR than LBJ who plays as a forward? Let's those two facts sink in.
Another statistic: the number of matches in which they did not have 3 defeats in a row. No player in history has more than 200, except MJ who has ~ 626. What would be the significance? The power to influence the fate of a game.
Yep. And the statistical probability of this record being broken is smaller than you or I winning the Powerball lotery.
Yea and u wanna be accurate… that chart shows “all defensive team”…. What it doesn’t say is that all 9 of MJ’s were 1st team selections… all 6 of brons were not 1st team selections
True! MJ being part of 9 1st team al defence teams as well as being defensive player of the year on one occasion, shows that he was a far better defender.
Lebron is ranked #1 all time leader of turn overs...that's one stat that most people won't mention or don't even know about it 😂
From 😊 the beginning of the video to 😢 at the end... priceless..😂
Haha yes. Hope you enjoyed the video!
@@ryan_lloyd Check out Skap Attacks channel he gives the best deep dives on CONTEXT about lebron and exposes the media propaganda and bias
That 4th championship needs an asterisk for the bubble championship
MJ=🐐..Saw it with my own eyes, year after year after year 🎯☑️
No player today is closed to MJ, not even bron
nothing to compare, MJ GOAT 💯
Yes there is a right answer and the answer is Michael Jeffrey Jordan. It's not even close to anyone else.
Jordan could have played more years, he just retired the second time cause Bulls ownership wanted to rebuild. He averaged just under 29 ppg his last year in Chicago. Instead of starting over. He just retired.
9:58 “….hasn’t even been competitive…”, yet he’s mentioned in this video😂😂😂😂🤣😂
28:02 I disagree in his prime he was in the top 6-10 as a defender he never was the top or top 5
Fair point
16:15 I hear you but basketball is about shooting so shooting % and free throw % will be including in the goat conversion
This is true. It definitely plays a role. I just wouldn't want free throw % to be a major talking point in a GOAT debate. But for sure, it definitely is important as it tests not just your shooting ability, but ability under pressure.
5:50 “Painful” I wonder what percentage of players would say that about what MJ did to them😂🤣😂♥️
The younger generations do unfortunately suffer from not being around when Jordan was in his prime, I was a teen in highschool at the time. It truly is hard to describe the phenomenon that was Jordan. Global icon, everyone of every corner of the Earth knew who Jordan was, that time wars and terrorism, and dictators ruled the airwaves, planes being hijacked, Gulf War yet literal enemies could sit down and watch a Bulls game. People and countries where basketball is not the number 1 sport, Jordan inspired millions to buy a basketball and hoist up a ring. Everyone became experts, everyone made time to watch the Bulls play and your missus wasn't mad at ya. Everyone was wearing Bulls gear. Jordans became the number 1 most desired product in the world. Grandparent's to little kids knew who he was...insane, crazy and incredible times. Felt like the whole world was in unison and just having a good time.
The eye test is very important. Jordan was better to watch and he got the job done. Real hoop fans are turned off by LeBron barreling to the basket trying to get fouls that he rarely converts at the line and the ratings show it. The eye test was very integral in making the game global so I suggest you watch Jordan’s career from beginning to end so you can understand why it’s so important. All the excuses you make for LeBron is highlighting how soft the current era is and I’m glad that this video points it out without needing to actually say it. And if you have to say that Bron has to rest during his 21st season then he needs to retire because the excuses are laughable now.
LBJ leads in missed layups, turnovers, and soon-to-be missed shots. LBJ never improved on his shooting or ball handling. He plays the same way throughout his entire career. The eye test reveals why the NBA suffered financially and with viewership after Jordan and his competition retired (or got old). Very telling of how Jordan elevated his own sport. He set the standards that no one is living up to, not even Lebronze. The only ones that kept the league alive at the time were Kobe/Shaq, Duncan, Nash, and Nowitzki.
Remember, this video was made before Lebron won the 2020 bubble championship, so it's a few years old. What does that mean? it means that in every single bit of footage showing Lebron being a poor defender he is either YOUNGER or the same age Jordan was in his last year on the Bulls . That season Jordan was MVP and made 1st team all defense. In a lot of those clips he is even much younger than Jordan was that year since some of that footage showed Lebron in a Cavs jersey. The thought of Jordan resting on defense, in a Bulls jersey especially, would never have existed or been accepted by anyone, including his fans.
Jordan is literally the best shot blocking guard that ever lived. 😂
He's still has the record for most blocks in a season by a guard. And he's the only guard with over 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, and he did it twice.
Resting for padding Stats...Lebron only played 1 time all 82 Games in 21 years.....in the NO defence era.....
Bird was a great all around offensive player not defense so that’s not best all around game…that’s reserved for MJ
I disagree Bird was a very good defender. He did average 10 rebounds for his career and averaged a block and almost 2 steals a game. He also was on the all defensive team 3 times. Bird's IQ would thrive in the clutch.
@@msw8966 Bird is nobody on defend compared to MJ..that’s the topic. Bird agrees with me
@@mannyneva1760 Bird is a humble guy. Bird also showed his greatness having a winning record over Jordan and matching on stats in game play.
@@msw8966 nothing fkn humble about Bird fk outta here..the entire Celtics locker room in 1986 agreed MJ was the BEST PLAYER in the NBA
@@mannyneva1760 Lmao if Bird wasn't humble he would have set you MFs straight that he is the baddest of all time. That's the problem you don't understand humbleness when the greats talk about the greats.
It's Black Jesus by far. Jordan's skills on both sides of the court, stats and accomplishments have no peer. Even aesthetically, he was beautiful and graceful to watch. Super athletic AND fundamentally sound. We've seen no one like him to this day.
I think LeBron is definitely an all-time great, but I don’t have him in the goat position personally. I think anyone that doesn’t have him in their top 10 is just hating for the sake of hating, I give it to him in the longevity department, he definitely has that over everybody, but that still doesn’t mean in your prime you were better than other people in their prime just because you’re bigger and you are lucky enough not to have an injury.
I still would pick Kobe Bryant to lead a basketball team over LeBron James. Especially if there’s a stipulation where I am only allowed to have one other All-Star. LeBron has yet to win a championship with anything less than three All-Stars on the team that won the championship or when you look at what happened in Miami in Los Angeles.
In the 2000s LeBron and Kobe were both kind of in the same vote in the middle of that decade. They were the best two players in the league, and they were both on shitty teams. Especially the team Kobe was left with after they went through the rebuild. They didn’t have anyone there. The biggest guy on his team was Kwame Brown and he actually told Kobe one time. “don’t pass me the ball because I’m scared I’ll mess up.” that’s what Kobe was having to deal with. Remember all the Nike commercials with the puppets everyone knew that it was going to be LeBron in the Cavaliers versus Kobe and the Lakers? They ran those commercials for two years. As soon as Kobe just got one more All-Star, not a super team he just got another All-Star who wasn’t a top 75 player, Kobe went to the finals three years in a row and walked away with two championships. LeBron, on the other hand with one other All-Star couldn’t get past the white Howard. And then Kobe and the Lakers beat Dwight Howard in five games for the championship.
If you can’t win a championship without team, jumping from super team to super team over and over again and you’re pretty much playing the GM roll in your handpick, your teammates, and you still are having troubles you’re not the goat . That doesn’t mean he isn’t great. LeBron is definitely one of the grades, but we need to stop this narrative of “if you don’t say, LeBron is the best ever then you’re being disrespect.” what kind of Nazi Germany shit is that?
You say it's hating to not have Lebron in the top ten? If your reason for him not being in your top ten includes: cheating the game, such as being allowed to get away with offensive fouls, traveling, & flopping. That's doesn't make one a hater. That's legitimate.
Honestly Lefony(Lebron) isn’t nearly as good as all the media and the NBA Leauge commissioner are so begging Lefony to be!! He really is like #12- #14 on the all time list
really a lot lower, a lot more better players with better D and without flops and theatre lehelp acting... bs new woke goat belongs to woke sheep
Great commentary! DANGERproduction's video should be required viewing for every NBA fan, and should be used as a reference every time the Lebron goat debate is brought up.
Phil Jackson’s tomb reads: GOD is good. I had Mike and Kobe♥️
Watch a guy get beat up night after night for 3 seasons during the playoffs and see if the eye test matters. Watch the tension build between teams and see a man dominating, putting distance and ending any doubt in a single night. No team today does this.
Be fair to lebron? LOL. Lets really put some more "context" in this. Jordan did the bulk of his stats in 11 years. ELEVENNNNN. One season he broke his foot , came back to play only 17 games. Another season, he came back at the end of the bulls season from leaving baseball. He played only 24 games. So that is TWO season. So add that to the 11 and we are at 13. THEN his two years at washington that are totally underrated ( great video out that covered this) where he played all 82 games one of the seasons in washington and the other didn't get to because of the knee injury. So lets go over that. 11 season, 2 seasons barely played due to injury and late return, and then 2 seasons in washington. He didn't need 21 years LOL. That frame at 5:29 shows what he did in 11 seasonssssssss, since he didn't get a scoring title, defensive title or playoffs when at washington and the other two , well he was a second year player when he broke his foot and the other was coming back from baseball. LOOK at those numbers. Video came out 3 years ago LOL. NOT that long ago. So that is 11 vs 21 seasons. It took both Kobi (rip) and lebron to their 17th seasons to pass jordan on the all time scoring list. Let that sink in. Lebron stacked teams, he switched teams that had a chance at winning championship then dictated who he wanted there. Look who he had in Cleveland , in his prime, for 11 years. What came of it? One championship. Jordan , Magic, Bird, Kobi weren't transient players or needing to stack teams and they were loyal. What has Lebron done in LA? NOTHINGGGG. I've been lucky to see Magic, Bird , Jordan, Kobi and Lebron play. There is no comparison . Magic and Bird battles were great. Lakers and the fast break, Bird and his IQ basketball but Jordan. He was special. Even the home team fans were cheering for him. I could say so much more but ill leave it at that.
he also answers the importance of free throw shooting. in the clutch.
6-0 vs 4-6. Yet here we are. Nobody from OH will ever surpass MJ (Bet he’s a Bengals fan)🖤💛🖤💛🙄🙄🙄 #NeverTheGreatest #WINNING
While the eye test isn't necessarily anything more than an opinion, when it's backed up by all the previous stats, it lends some weight to the MJ argument.
Absolutely. Looks like most advanced stats leaned towards MJ
Stop the garbage that LeFlop James has played for 21 years so he needs to rest his body in defense!!! LeFlop James plays in an era of basketball where the physicality is the equivalent to flag football where Jordan's era was an era of what the men around my age would call "Jungle Ball" and what the gist of "Jungle Ball" is NO BLOOD NO FOUL PERIOD and I never saw a game where Jordan EVER SAT OUT "TO REST"!!! Jordan was quoted by his personal trainer "Jordan felt like if people were going to spend their hard earned money to come out to watch him play then he owed it to his fans and supporter's to bust his butt and give his all so when they left arena they felt like he gave them their money's worth"!!! This comparison of James and Jordan is so damn disrespectful to Jordan and his legacy and it needs to stop!!! James hasn't surpassed Bird, Magic, Kobe or Kareem yet so WHY is he being compared to the man that all of those other players I just named said that Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever!! For me personally I'll take the opinions from Hall of Fame players long before I listen to someone who's closest they ever came to being a NBA player was shooting balls of paper into his trash can in his cubicle like Nick Wright!!!
I have watched them both from beginning to now. Jordan was different, and he is the goat, and it's not even close.
I understand when all you know is Lebron, but having watched the NBA for 50+ years and as a Magic Johnson fan and former Laker fan, i understand that MJ was the greatest player I've ever watched.
Lebron: most playoff loses all-time ✔, most committed turnovers all-time ✔, most shots taken all-time (but he's pass 1st?) ✔, most missed shots all-time ✔, only player to be Swept in 3 finals series ✔ 7th worst +/- in NBA finals history -86 ✔ 2nd worst NBA finals record all-time 4-6 ✔ that's not a top 5 player all-time
4:58 Still waiting for Lebron’s statue
It's not a normal NBA season when he won that mickey mouse bubble ring. Nothing worth bragging about that one. It will have an * on it.
I've watched both live, and Jordan is the GOAT. It's not even close.
Lebron doesn't make my top 3.
Free throws are extremely important. Can’t put you in a GOAT convo if you are a horrible FT shooter. It’s called FREE!!!! No one is guarding you.
Even LeBron’s iconic pre-game ritual was stolen from Jordan.
LeBron takes enough games off through load management so whenever he could be bothered showing up to work he could at least work the whole shift. Considering how much less defence there is to play these days, it should be easy to qualify for having played defence.
Minor nitpick from the video, I almost never hear it pronounced as P-E-R. Its almost always pronounced per like purr
And the thing about LeBron resting his body, I mean yeah I can accept that in his Laker years. But he has been known to check out on defense at times for his entire career
For sure. Thanks for the comment. And it's true, Lebron hasn't been playing elite defense for almost a decade now.
I've never heard it being pronounced Purr.. I've always heard it being pronounced P.E.R. whether its from my friends, or from sports shows like Undisputed or First Take.
@@libfit9068Wonder if it depends on the source. I watch channels like Thinking Basketball or podcasts hosted by players like JJ, Gil, and PG that are more like informal conversation. It would make sense that a ESPN show that has a mass audience would spell it out though.
@@ggsimmonds1 I've heard Gil say P.E.R. too.. I've only ever heard them say per if they were mentioning like points per game or something. But I've always heard the analytical metric pronounced P.E.R. even on podcasts.
I do believe that if people could protest for LEBRICK's retirement and thought they would be successful they would.
Michael Jordan 6 time champion on Chicago bulls 1.🤟 End of story
not playing defense just to save yourself on offense is no excuse! He's leaving his team out to dry to make his stats better on offense? no excuse, LeBron just thinks he's above everyone else and chooses when he wants to play hard and when he doesnt
MJ all the way #1 G O A T . ENOUGH SAID
i dont understand why it is a debate ? maybe someone is still playing...
MJ all day and no one come close.
the eye test isn't used by novice fans/ critiques. if you know you know.
I honestly don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say free throw percentage wasn’t an important stat to consider lol some games are literally decided by free throws.. it matters bro, trust me🤣
nick wright and shannon sharp should watch this
They sure should haha
You were talking over him saying Jordan was busting his tail on defense even as a 40 yr old.
Eye test makes the best judgement. It tells you the quality of how they players does in the cour.t.pfftt Its not even a debate and i will never even pick him over kobe let alone jordan.
5:47 Thanks for the correction, but that still doesn’t help (him look better)😄😄😄😄
I hate when people say he's older has more seasons so needs to rest on defense if he even shows up. TIME TO RETIRE basketball is offense and defense. 2nd thing if u lose by 3 points but ur team missed 7+ free throws if u were better ft% shooter u should have made 4 or 5 u should have won the game.
The only reason why the bronze Peak is so long is because there's nobody guarding him he can just go do whatever and nobody's going to get in his way to me that's not basketball
Jordan's game is what makes him the Greatest
take away the rings and stats MJ's game stands as the best on offense and defense
LeBron had spells in his early career on defense where he sit back
Mate, I am Aussie and I took up basketball early in 1994 while MJ was playing baseball so he wasn't really an option when I was picking a favourite player. I still have Alonzo Mourning jerseys so that is my bias. MJ is the GOAT and to be honest daylight is 2nd. LeBron's finals appearances without winning proves that LeBron is the best at coming 2nd. Does coming 2nd sound like GOAT behaviour?
Lebron’s peak has never been close to MJs. This shit isn’t even a debate.
I like how people say Lebron is stronger and more durable yet you barely touch him he is on the ground crying like he got punched by Tyson 😂
The fact that Labron has won a forth title sense this video dosnt matter, when this video was made Bron had already played 5 seasons longer than Mike. Imo Bron could tie Mjs 6 and it still wouldn't matter cuz it took him 20+ years to do what MJ did in 13.
I love watching young people that think leflop is the goat watch this video and see the realization of truth Jordan was an absolute killer he would rip Lebrons heart out and crush his soul!
Lol huh.. did you just say the EYE TEST could go either way? Hell na
He didn't mentioned this:
Most Turovers
Most missed clutch shots
Most lost finals
Most lost playoff games
Most missed FT
Most Flopps
Most missed 3 Pointers
The List goes on and on
They changed the "Flopping rules" to avoid Flopping because of this man --> LeFlopp James"
I disagree with the statement of To be fair to Bron on defense. Yeah Hes older but MJ at 40 which is older then Bron is now was still a better defender so that doesnt really work
Good video MJ The Goat of course
If u cant play defense in year 21 ...retire.
MJ vs Kopy-Kat Kobe.....its time to get it done!!!
If they counted lebron's turnovers fairly he would have 5 per game.
What do we need scouts for if the eye test isn’t the best way to judge a player and his talent? Stats can lie but your eyes don’t! No we don’t give out excuses about age on defense if you’re going to use longevity as an argument against MJ! In their primes MJ was a better defender than Lebron!
I had to check out another video (in case this comment doesn’t make sense, refer to my comment on your video from 2 days ago 😂) It was 3 minutes long. Oh, this is a total compliment 👉🏻 Ur gonna get accused of sounding like PewDiePie!😂 (I hope I didn’t offend you) I can’t think of a better RUclipsr to sound similar to. Peace ✌🏻
As you watched this. Aren’t you using your eyes? lol
MJ 🐐🐐🐐🐐
This not even debatable lol
Jordan is the Goat 🐐
Lebron not even close
Jordan play defense every single game….lebron suck on defense sometimes and he choke
Jordan 🐐
Jabbar 2nd
Kobe. 🥉
Lebron top ten all time
What??!!! How do you watch the game then?
Why keep your trap beat playing over the video that has better music?
U try everything to defend lebron lol u lack knowledge of the nba and its players,carrying the ball more doesn’t autautomatically make ur turnover rate higher smh Stockton leads in assists and has less turnovers and more assists than lebron simply bcuz he is a BETTER PASSER lebron is the ONLY player with 5k in turnovers and counting that’s more than even Russell Westbrook,why u think nobody fears lebron but have nightmares just facing mj?oh and EVERY aspect of the game determines who is the greatest,u said lebron is a great scorer but freethrows shouldn’t be counted?FOH
MJ forever GOAT 2nd kobe
MJ MJ MJ MJ MJ MJ 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
You should have probably waited before you talked on that eye test cuz that's not what he means by it that he's trying to explain it and you're not listening
LeBron’s been resting on defense since 2015 lol definitely not a new thing for him
LeBum you can play 20 years when you play half assed .... MJ and Larry Legend did nothing half assed ...
Are you a safa? Your accent is throwing me for a loop
Haha yes, South African here. Sorry, hopefully you understand everything I’m saying🤣🤣
Kobe better than Lebron. So is Duncan, Russell, Kareem, Magic. Steph wins another chip, he better. MJ untouchable.
How can he called himself the Goat and is fans boys when he has a losing record. He lost 6 finals and only won 4 that's not greatness
Plus you never watched basketball before but Michael Jordan played when he was 40 and he was still better than LeBron James
And no he doesn't get a pass because he's 37 or 38 Jordan played when he was 40 and he was better than LeBron ever was
So many more assist? He avered 2 more a game
Either way ??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lebron became goat 2016
Lebron is #1 all time leader in Turn Overs..go check it out..that's no goat for me...MJ = the 🐐
lebron is playing in a powder puff league with no contact. of course he'll last longer. that plus the steroids
Lebron's not even top 10