Porsche 911 GTS MANUAL | Comparing the Numeric Short Shifter to Porsche OEM Shifter
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2019
- We install a Numeric Short Shifter in a manual Porsche 911 GTS. Does the Numeric shifter improve the driving experience over Porsche's OEM manual shifter? Watch this video to find out.
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Brothers in Porsches 👍🏾😉👍🏾
It’s a nice site to see .
Beautiful to see. Hoping to replicate that in my Town.
This is my favorite video you made. I love watching car guys geek out. I really appreciated the way the Porsche technician took the time to show you guys the difference between the two shifters. I think it was pretty gracious of him to admit the aftermarket shifter is better made.
Excellent video! I am looking to finally pull the trigger on my first 911 and your videos get me excited for the big day. Thanks for posting!
Excellent review Joe. Milt seemed very happy with the results of how much shorter the throw is. You did one step thus far in the shifting upgrade. You should see how it feels with cables installed as well. Very direct and rigid. I just did an install recently on a 2017 Carrera GTS and the customer was extremely happy.
“FEELS GREAT” 😊 Had me smiling all through the video. Thanks for sharing
Me too!
Another well done video! Thank you for illustrating this short shift kit.
Thanks for watching. Both the Numeric and the Porsche short shifter kits have a positive effect on the driving experience.
Very well done vid. Love the comradeship between you guys. I am installing a Numeric shifter and cable assembly today in my 2010 987.2. Tomorrow I’ll be snick, snick, snicking with the best of them :). Thanks guys!
I am very glad to hear that the shifter does not offend you.
Hey Joe! Thanks for the detailed review just installed the cables and shifter on my 997TT. couldn't be happier
not notchty feels gated now with the snap back to neutral.
Good video. I just installed a Numeric in my 997 a couple days ago and run it in the shortest position as well. Feels soooo dang good.
Another interesting, informative and enjoyable Porsche video from one of my fav auto RUclipsrs....Well done Joe & thanks. Happy New Year my friend. (Mike in Ohio)
I love the videos that are real world response to the modifications we can make in our cars. Gives us all an idea as to whether to make a mod or not. And Joe, I've gone from a manual Porsche to a PDK Porsche and find it nearly as engaging, just in different ways, and still enjoy the speed and smoothness with which it shifts - each and every time. No regrets!
I agree that the PDK is nearly as engaging, just in different ways. You are so right. I really enjoy my PDK equipped car. You know what? I simply enjoy driving sports cars so perhaps that overrides the transmission choice. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. Cheers!
Great video, loved your spirited drive of the short shifter 👍🏻😂
Thank you for this detailed review, very good! Your way of presenting is very sympathetic as well.
Thank you!
Very cool video! Thanks bro!👊🏾
Thanks for the video! Appreciate the descriptive comments regarding “feel”... which helps a lot toward decision making.
Glad it was helpful!
Great stuff, we have a lot of happy clients running the Numeric Racing shifter. We're about to get a video up with our Project 981 Cayman (with 991.1 GTS engine going in!) that will show the shifter and their optional cables. That motor sounds amazing!
Great video! Thanks for sharing this real world takeaway. Officially getting one put in my 992 4GTS!
So glad it was helpful. I think you’ll enjoy it.
Great review!!
Great video Joe . !
Just some car guys having the best time!
Another great video! Keep up the good work Joe.
Thanks so much!
Great videos as always. Keep up the great work!
It’s so inspiring to see two of my brothers ripping a Porsche. My dream car. I currently drive a natural aspirated V8 M3 (2013). My next car will be a 911. Thank you both for sharing this. 🙏🏾✌🏽
Joe is way too happy in a manual.
Great video!! I may need to add the numeric to my Porsche!
Nothing like a short throw. The Tremec in my SS 1LE is crazy short. I hardly have to move my arm. Mostly wrist shifts. Nice vid Joe.
Tastefully done GTS, drooping with leather! I would def put on the clear side markers however. I’m in a 997.2 GTS w PDK and Buckets and I’m scared to drive a manual because I know I’ll have to make a switch!!
Joe my man i love you channel !! good stuff my man!!
i currently drive a 2018 RS3 since we have a new baby and needed the for doors but mannnn im really thinking of a GTS as my second car and it has a back seat for the little guy lol so my wife wont give me to much grief:) keep up the great work just subbed ya
JB!
Joe, I always enjoy your content. This one was a perfect comparison. Thanks! (BTW, we met at Driven to America pre-COVID in front of that Singer you were filming.) Keep the content coming.) --Adam
Thanks so much! By the way, I look forward to the day when we can all get together and attend another Driven to America event.
Just found your channel..love it.. that interior is nice..cool car..911 or 2nd
Car sounds fantastic. Based on both reactions, the short shift kit is well worth it.
This helped me make a decision - thanks!
Did you decide to get the Numeric? I checked in with Milton again recently and he remains happy with his purchase.
Great info and well presented, thx, Adam, Tofino.CA
Thanks so much!
Love it guys! I am torn between this GTS manual, carrera T manual or 991.2 or 991.2S manual. Quality problems. I currently drive a 2013 base 911 PDK and love it, but time for a manual in a year or so. Thanks for the info. Definitely installing this short shifter!!!
Great video on this kit, save the manuals!
So tempted to drop one of these in my 997 RS.
Milton is very happy with the Numeric. I don't work for them but I must admit, it feels great to use.
Looks like it was definitely a good choice!
“I’m happy with the PDK… yes I’m happy with it” You’re not happy with your PDK 😂. Thank you for a great video which was really informative/
Great Vid, I gotta go for that Numeric in my 997
It feels good. Much more solid and mechanical. Precise.
Hi Joe, thanks for the video , I have changed on my 991 and cant wait to drive like you did 😁😁
Let me know what you think after you’ve driven it. I’d like to know your thoughts.
Joe Hutchinson ... Every one has deferent shoulder or arm length, So I would recommend to adjust the shifter hight to individual / preferred hight . Yes l love the shifter 😁
I realize this terrific vid is now 4 yrs old, but still relevant. I also have a 2016 GTS manual and have been considering the Numeric. I was convinced making this change after watching your vid, but I went to Porsche Parade recently and met up with some key well-known tech guys from PCA National and asked them about making the change. I was expecting to hear 'go for it', but surprisingly each of them suggested to keep it stock. Now back on the fence trying to decide what to do. Now all these years later, assuming Milt still has the GTS, any further comments from him?
Yes I can hear the engine noise perfectly
Wow!!!! Great review!!! How it feels when you shift from 7th to 6th and 6t to 5th ? Those are the tricky ones on 7 gearbox ! 🤟🏻
I have the same car as Milton, with the duck tail, and it's a manual, Porsche 2016 Carrera GTS. My previous Porsche was the 2016 Cayman GTS, with PDK. I am SO happy to back to manual transmission. Never going back to automatic.
Duck tail must look sweet. Manuals are so much fun!
Joe, now that it's been ~6-weeks post install, what is Milton's updated assessment - pros and cons?
Generally, we all like our "new" toys, but as time passes, subtleties of fit, feel, form, function, etc., begin to alter our opinions - good or bad.
Thank you for this video and your others - "everyday Joe" who loves performance cars and isn't shy about the joys and perils of ownership (i.e., fun vs. cost quotient).
Cheers
Great vid!
Thanks for watching!
My friend has the numeric in his 997 GT3, very short and precise. I just bought the 997 Short shifter kit, not installed yet. Thanks for the video!
Hi Michael! Thanks for watching. I think you will enjoy that short shifter kit. I liked both the Porsche version in the Carrera T and the Numeric model. Different personalities to how they feel but both are really good and satisfying.
Joe, tell Michael he can go ahead an install the SSK himself! 😂. Awesome content, Joe. It good to see you branching out into reviews of other cars and modifications!! Good stuff!
Milton's GTS is BEAUTIFUL!!!
It is a great spec!
@@Joe_Hutchinson can u do a update vid on the short shifter.. how it broke in,was it worth it ect... I'm still deciding if i should go for the Numeric or factory oem gt3 short shifter
An update video will be coming. But here is a direct quote from Milton about the Numeric shifter so far: “Yes I do still love it. A representative from Numeric also replied to our video and stated that i should get their cables also. I am going to research how that will make a difference. If the results of that query impressed me then i will do cables also. Yes i do still love that i did this modification with Numeric and having had the experience I can say without any reservation, i would do it again. In fact, I love it!”
Great video Joe I hope I won't offend you on your viewers but it's great or a lot of fun to see two Brothers enjoying their Porsche's
Why or who would be offended????
@@frederickcook87 no one I hope.....be blessed
Great video, thanks Joe. On my 991.1 C2 S I installed the Porsche short shifter from the GT4, which is the same as in the Carrera T. I have been debating getting the Numeric. If anything it looks like it might be TOO short. The Porsche short shifter is the same base mechanism as the regular one, but the shaft is slightly shorter and it adds the self-centering spring like the Numeric. Whereas the Numeric actually has a mechanism that requires less movement to make the shifts, if that makes sense.
In any event, let your friend know that if he does not like or gets tired of the stiffness of the self-centering spring that Numeric makes a two versions of the spring. Not sure which he ordered but the standard is the heaviest one. Personally I find the Porsche short shifter spring to be on the stiff side and it occasionally causes me to miss a shift into 5th. And reverse requires a lot of force. But I haven’t changed it in almost two years.
Just a heads up in case he didn’t know. I’m not sure how well Numeric makes it known.
Cheers and happy motoring.
PS Grew up in Rockland and worked in Westchester many years. Love seeing those roads as I haven’t lived there in over a decade.
Thanks for the information. I will be sure to pass it along to Milton,
The shaft of the Numeric is adjustable. It can be unwound and get taller or screwed in to be shorter. Milton is starting out with the shaft in the shortest position to see what that feels like for a while. But he can always make it taller. Pretty nice feature.
Joe Tacchino, I also installed the GT4 short shifter on my 991.1 C2S. My opinion is the same as yours. From the first drive after short shifter was installed I immediately thought the centering spring was unnecessary or at least overly stiff. I installed four years ago and never touched it. If I could do it all over again I still like the short shifter geometry but would definitely look into whether the centering spring can be removed.
FYI for anyone considering the Porsche short shifter it is very similar to the stock shifter with two most notable differences. (1) The shaft is reduced in length and (2) there's a STIFF-ish centering spring that requires more force to go left/right but does not affect forward/backward motion. Note the 991 transmission linkage already self-centers in the lateral left/right axis. Plus when the shaft is shortened (leverage decreasing) it naturally increases the force required to go left/right. So adding a stiff spring on top really puzzles me, I attribute it to it being designed to be perfect in the GT4 but somewhat non-ideal on the 991. I've never driven the GT4 so can't validate the theory. In any case I the improved short shift geometry still outweighs this flaw so I've kept the mod. Just always makes me wonder whether dropping that spring can go from "pretty good" to "heaven".
And also thank you Joe Hutchinson for documenting and sharing your friend's journey! I really enjoy content dedicated to the more enthusiast and niche interests.
Great video I always enjoy your content. I was looking at the 911 GTS when I bought my GT4 and it was the Manual in the GT4 that ultimately won me over.
I know you said you don't regret getting the PDK and why would you, its great transmission but if you had to do it again would you go the same way?
The GT4 is a great car. There is a guy who owns a GT4 who competes in some auto cross events I have participated in who tends to win the events I am participating in. The GT4 is a great car and he happens to be a great driver.
If i had to do it all over again, would I get PDK again or a manual? The answer depends on the day. Of late, I would get the manual, not the PDK. I feel that way lately because I am getting a taste of the GTS and a Carrera T with manuals, and, I have had my PDK for a while so being back in a manual sports car is fun. A new thrill. And I missed the engagement. So at the moment, if I did it all over again, I would get a manual. Having said that, next week, after a blast in my PDK car, I may change my mind and fall in love with PDK all over again....
Did Milton get the 1.5 or the 2 mm spring? Does he plan on adding cables? How's it going so far? Is he still happy with the upgrade?
Great video and manuals with a bolt action numeric shifter is the way to go 👍🏾👌🏾👍🏾
My 997 will get this mod next to go with solid motor/transmission mounts that were install last go round.
did u do the engine mounts and shifter? thanks
@@brianhimmelman420 engine mounts were already done but yes I did the shifter and cables
@@frederickcook87 thank you could you describe feel? worthy mod ? I am close to pulling trigger on shifter and cables for my 997.1 RS
@@brianhimmelman420 yeah, more than worthy… I have it set to the shortest throw and love the feel. It takes more effort to change gears but feels super solid, you feel each shift
It’s one of the best mods on my car
I said for years I will get a manual Porsche 4S. Ended up with PDK.
All the road trips planned go trough coasts/cities/beaches in areas like South France. So many stop & go traffic jams.
How are those plans going? :) I wanted to drive along the pyrennees next month; there is the driving book series out by Porsche's 'personal' photographer Bogner, the Curves series, which you can find cheap on Amazon, they are all great. The drive is from coast to coast along the French/Spanish border, thus obviously going down south. I had spent a day doing a detailed tour plan following the book via Post codes to feed to the PCM sat nav already, but now I might not go, because my new home stereo keeps bankrupting me haha... and I already drove a Curves tour this year... PS if you want to go all out, Barcelona is not far from the border, so you can take a ferry to Mallorca and do the Curves Mallorca drive as well while you are down there. Porsche had the 981 reveal for the press on Mallorca, you can find quite a few videos on RUclips.
IS Milton still happy with the upgrade a year on ? Great video , Cheers
Yes, absolutely
People enjoying Porsches, it doesn't get any better.
Joe, now that you've lived with it for over a year, how do you feel about the short shifter? Would you do it again?
You two are hilarious
Dear Joe, I came out of a 2019 Manual Carrera T that Porsche built incorrectly ( wrong seats, no memory). The dealer went out of its way to procure me a 2019 Manual GTS at their cost to get me the seats with memory, while they allowed me to drive the T for 3 months.I loved the shifting. When I first drove the GTS, it felt vague to me not knowing the shifter has longer throws. I assume you would still recommend the Numeric over the stock Carrera T shifter?
The frog 🐸 face looks good in black 👍🏿👍🏿 ps go fast for life ♿️💯✅
Milton sounds like Denzel 😂
Really enjoyed watching you guys driving the GTS. I recently put the B&M short shift kit on my 2008 Cayman S and totally agree with your assessment of the benefits of the short shift kit. I love the short shift kit on the Cayman so much that I am now going to put a short shift kit in my 2017 Carrera S! I wanted to evaluate the benefits of the short shift kit on one car before I did both. It only took a couple of days and I was convinced it’s the way to go. I will consider the Numeric short shift kit for my 911. Thanks for a great video.
You are so welcome. I enjoy the fast engagement that the short throw shifter provides. Fast. Much more sporting in feel. A nice, simple but effective, upgrade.
Great video, looks like you guys had a lot of fun. Just Subscribed and hit the bell. Would you mind telling me how long it took for them to install l this? I want to to get it for my '17 Carrera , and would appreciate it.
Thanks for watching, subscribing and hitting the notification bell. It did not it take the technician long the install the the short shifter. In fact, I delayed him because I kept interrupting him for filming purposes. I am sure if he was left alone he would have done it faster. It’s been quite some time since the install so but I would guess it took about an hour.
@@Joe_Hutchinson Thanks, why didn't you install the cables?
That engine sound is intoxicating.
I know it’s been a year, but great video. Wanted to know if the Numeric was the 1.5 or 2.0 spring? Thanks
I checked with Milton and honestly, we are not sure. Sorry about that.
One more to try, a German company called CAE. More expensive, but look it up, it's insane
"He drove it like it was a Hertz rent-a-car! Haha
Wow, that thing is SHORT. You barely have to move your arm!
Love both cars brother, but you did make the mistake of going with a pdk the manual is much more rewarding engaging driver focussed and fun.
You guys are very cool, and really show just how much fun it is to drive a Porsche 911.
I like that the new shifter has a firm spring to get back to Center that's important.
Just curious is it possible to remove the center lock wheels at home?
Just curious what that cable wrapped around the shifter is for.
Enjoy.
The manual is super fun to drive. It is engaging. Having said that, I enjoy the PDK too. Especially on track! Regarding center lock wheels, there is a big, giant wrench required to remove the center hub, so it is possible to do at home if you have this tool. I don't, so I go back to dealer or local Porsche shop. That cable around the shifter was just excess USB cable for Milton's iPhone.
Milt is da man!!!
What is the phone holder in the GTS? Thanks
This is a perfect example of why you should get the manual over the pdk in a 911 😂. The clutch, shifting, mechanical feel is unmatched for driving experience. Look at this gentlemen who doesn’t want to get out of this car and he has the pdk😆
Can you ask Milton if it helped with the awkward 5th, 6th and 7th gear changes? I find that I going from 6 to 5 , it is too easy to accidentally go into 3rd gear.
Hi Mark, I did ask Milton and here is his response: "I found the shifting challenge that he talks about challenging with the factory shifter, and a little more challenging with the Numeric shifter. The reason I say more challenging with the Numeric shifter is because, the Numeric shifter spring tension is much more significant than the factory shifter . The factory shifter is smooth, light and butter to shift. The Numeric shifter requires you to be deliberate. But.... with this cars shift box, your head and gear placement must be committed and deliberate. If you tenderfoot the shifter, particularly going through the shift pattern that he speaks of, You'll have this issue with the factory or Numeric shifter. The way I deal with that, is to be be deliberate and follow through while shifting. Once your head is in alignment, with this principle of thinking, in this car, you will mostly be fine."
That's nice but does Porsche themselves help with taking out their OEM shifter for that kit ?
Milton has known that Porsche technician, JC, for a long time. JC has a lot of knowledge about high performance parts for Porsche and works at Porsche service centers in our area. As you can see, JC performed the work at a Porsche center. But to your question, I am not sure if your local Porsche service center would do it or not. It’s a simple install so I would imagine your local service center can do it.
Would Milt want to adjust the length of the shifter longer? Being in its shortest position it does look quite short. I wonder if lengthening the shift lever would provide a little more of the mechanical advantage of the stock shifter while still retaining all the precision the Numeric offers.
I shared your note with Milton to get his take. He seems happy with the shortest height at the moment. In the future, if he wants to come up in height, he can do that without a problem. But your point is well taken, he doesn't have to go all the way down to the lowest position. He can split the difference between the lowest and the OEM shifter height and still see an improvement.
@@Joe_Hutchinson Thanks Joe. Your review has provided the extra impetus I needed to install the Numeric shifter and cables on my 987 this spring when the weather warms up. I'll probably go from the other direction, start at the highest setting and work my way down. Wish you guys the best with both your beautiful cars.
Great review gentlemen. Thank you.
Thanks so much!
Joe... are you guys happy with the down shifting and comfortable hitting third and not the first gear accident? Appreciate the help.
Hello, I was very comfortable selecting the desired gear. But I put your question before the owner, Milton, and here is Milton’s answer:
“This was somewhat of an issue with the stock shifter. I attribute this to a lack of driver input or intent. When it has happened to me it was primarily due to me not taking an aggressive enough or determined posture during shifting. I was messaging the shifter into gears. I allowed myself to be lulled into a soft touch mindset while driving the somewhat luxurious grand touring automobile named Porsche. Well that was a mistake...it’s a Porsche “Sportscar” and smooth dispassionate shifts is not the answer. Smoothness should not replace righteous direction of the shifter. All of the above more so applies to the Numeric shifter because the spring generated resistance while shifting is greater than the stock shifter. The Numeric shifter requires a deliberate hand or yes you can end up in third gear. I will add that the Numeric shifter invites a deliberate hand with its more sturdy build and heavily engineered mechanism. They is no fear in manhandling the Numeric shifter.. Grab that shifter like a well placed properly torqued handshake amongst men...don’t try to hurt anybody, but let him know I’m here! I hope I’ve offered a usable answer to your question.”
Thank you for the time with this. I appreciate you and Milton giving me a real world thorough review and opinion. Love the illustration and makes good sense. Great work on the vids. I just ordered the Numeric bundle online. Enjoy those beautiful cars. Chris Wiggins
Wiggins Racing you are so welcome. We are glad to help.
Joe, would you mind asking your buddy Milton if he is still happy with his Numeric short shifter? I am thinking of getting one and wanted to see how his experience has been over time. Thanks!
I have asked him and he continues to be very happy with the Numeric shifter. He has had it for a little while now and he is glad he has made the change.
@@Joe_Hutchinson thank you, much appreciated!
Does it void warranty ?
Hi Joe, would you think it's worth while to upgrade to a Numeric on a manual Carrera T? Or the Stock T shifter is good enough? Tia
I too have the same question.
5/5
Joe, what Porsche dealer did he use to do the work?
It’s a little complicated. The tech who did the install in Larchmont (NY) Porsche actually works at a Manhattan Porsche dealership that has a department that specializes in performance parts and upgrades for sports cars. So he worked at www.manhattanmotorwerks.com/ but Porsche Larchmont allowed him to use their service bay for the install.
seatbelt?
Milton:)
Where art thou Joe?!
is this 1.5mm or 2mm spring?
I am sorry to say that Milton isn't sure which version he had installed.
There goes our exit...
Did he say "Porcha" at 2:32?
I probably did. I hit a bump in the road that made me stutter!
Both of those 911's are beautiful! Oh... someday I will own a brand new 911, especially if about a million of you loyal Porsche fans subscribe to my new RUclips channel. Thank you if you do, I appreciate it. I'd like to put a short shift in my 996 soon.
This shifter is a waste of time and money. You should have put your money is a toilet and flushed it. That would have been better to see.
david dykeman I’m curious as to why you say this. I have a Porsche and I’ve been deliberating about upgrading the shifter for a while now.
Denny my GT4 is perfect the way it is, thankfully.@@suprazrule
@@suprazrule he saying it because you get no performance advantage. Spend the money on upgrading the power, the stock shifter is good enough.