LCMS and WELS on the Ministry
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- What is the difference between the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods' teaching on the Ministry?
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Pastor, ELDONA's website doesn't show your church on the parish locator. If it's out of date, may someone give it an update as others may be missing out on congregations in their areas?
Iirc, a number of churches left ELDoNA in 2022 to form the Confessional Lutheran Ministerium, and Pr. Sullivan’s congregation was among them.
@@chaselefort124 what was the split over?
@@AmillennialMillenial I'm bummed I can't find the article about this. But my understanding is there was a dispute over worship practices and Bible translation. The bishop of ELDoNA wanted to impose one liturgy and Bible translation to be used in services, and the pastors of CLM left in response
I was highly considering converting from LCMS to WELS a few months ago, because LCMS has a problem of allowing women to run their congregations. I was ultimately unable to make the switch due to this subtle, yet significant, difference in doctrine. Thank you for this video!
Yeah the deaconess program looks good on paper. The LWML often becomes a cabal...Seen it.
Pastor Joshua in this video tries to suggest that their views on the ministry are similar because of his own personal gripes with the LCMS. In reality, the LCMS position is quite different from WELS's. Directors of Christian Education, teachers, parish workers, etc. do not carry out the functions belonging to the office of the Holy Ministry - preaching the Gospel and administering the sacraments. Only pastors do.
@@Nonz.M However, speaking as an LCMS member, it is silly to call those offices "humanly instituted" and also to consider them appointed as a "divine call." If they're human (which they are), then they are human. Pastor Joshua is right to point out that our position is functionally close to WELS even if different in theory.
The running of congregations is administrative. It has nothing to do with pastoral duties.
@@Nonz.M agreed, that's why I couldn't bring myself to leave the LCMS
Hello ATP! I love your content and your work serving our Lord. I'm genuinely curious if you are aware of real-world examples where the WELS actually had a women administer Holy Communion? Thanks and God bless!
The LCMS would never do a temporary call. We only use seminary graduated and ordained minister. I am a lifelong LCMS member. An all women's facility would be served by a Deaconess. They would not serve communion or baptize.
Did you leave ELDONA? Also, your website is in error. A typo. “In communion with the Conefssional Lutheran Minsterium”.
Several pastors left the ELDoNA when the Bishop was going a little too crazy authoritative with his new service book / church order. They formed the Confessional Lutheran Ministerium (yes, Ministerium is typed wrong).
The LCMS position is quite different from WELS's. Directors of Christian Education, teachers, parish workers, etc. do not carry out the functions belonging to the office of the Holy Ministry - preaching the Gospel and administering the sacraments. Only pastors do.
I am genuinely curious, so please don't interpret this as trying to pick a fight or anything. Are female LCMS teachers allowed to talk about the Gospel in the classroom (i.e. a history class)? Could a female LCMS teacher teach, lets say a grade school religion class? Or does LCMS distinguish between "teaching/talking" about the Gospel and "preaching" (i.e. in front of a congregation on a Sunday morning)? Thanks for the clarification, and God bless.
@@ajbleas Female teachers are allowed to teach Sunday School and religion classes. This is separate from preaching, absolution and administration of communion and baptism.
@@run4cmt Precisely.
Allowing a layperson in our congregation to perform baptisms and distribution of the Lord's Supper is strongly prohibited in our LCMS church. If there is no pastor, the elders simply lead some readings ( no divine service). These services would be no.more than cracking open your hymnal at home and using a matins or vespers service. There is no confession or absolution, just readings and hymns chosen earlier by our pastor and according to the lectionary.
* With the exception for emergency baptism by a layperson, but only under extenuating circumstances, and thereafter reported to the church to be recorded.
...okay....so WELS is the best solution that follows the luther biblio....viel dank...
The Lutheran position on the ministry strikes me as in biblical. I'm happy to be rebuked if one can show me from scripture that Christ established a single office of the ministry in the form of "pastors". This is obviously a carryover from Rome. In the pastoral Epistles, I see that Paul gives requirements and duties to Elders, bishops, and deacons. But never a single "pastor" over one congregation.
John 20:21 He gave the charge of pastor to his disciples. In Luke he also sent out the disciples to teach and preach.
@@run4cmt there is no indication that the pastoral office is the successor of the apostles
@@Klein-Morretti it was an obvious carryover from Rome. The priests have been around so long and were so entrenched in society that everyone assumed that the office went back to Christ. The office of Presbyter evolved into the office of priest and sort of stuck there. Even after the reformation into today
WELS is obviously totally unbiblical about the ministry